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RoanokeFan
12-05-2011, 07:25 PM
GIANTS' TOM COUGHLIN BELIEVES BALLARD'S CATCH AGAINST PACKERS WAS A TOUCHDOWN (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/12/giants_tom_coughlin_believes_j.html)</p>

Excerpt: "A day later, Tom Coughlin was nauseous.</p>


Not about his team’s effort in the Giants (http://www.nj.com/giants)’ <a href="http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/12/giants_play_well_but_a_moral_v.html">loss
to the Packers</a>. Rather, about a replay challenge he believes he should’ve
won when tight end Jake Ballard was ruled out of bounds on a pass in the end
zone. The officials upheld the call on the field and the Giants settled for a
field goal. It was 10-7 instead of 14-7.</p>


“I just saw a picture that made me sick to my stomach, which Fox produced and
showed he’s in,” Coughlin said today. “Don’t ask me about that because I really
don’t know why, but I did see the picture.”</p>


I don’t know if <a href="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/JCapace/389484_10150599973924377_418837579376_11892851_124 2151001_n.jpg">this
is the picture he’s talking about</a>, but it certainly makes matters
interesting.</p>


As I mentioned in <a href="http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/12/giants-packers_game_review_muc.html">my
game review</a>, there was one angle Fox showed from behind Ballard in which it
appears the bottom of his knee pad hits in the blue paint of the end zone before
sliding into the white of the sideline. Fox didn’t show that replay until the
Giants had already challenged the play, so it’s unclear if someone on the
coaching staff had that information.</p>


“I challenged the Ballard thing. No question about that one,” Coughlin said.
“I wasn’t going to not challenge that and have somebody tell me, ‘You know he
was in?’ As I said, the one on the sideline I was upset, I really was, because
it was third-and-3 and I thought we had them stopped.”</p>


That was a 7-yard catch by Donald Driver, who got both feet down before his
backside hit.</p>


“The second one, I really shouldn’t have challenged. It was right on our
sideline,” Coughlin said. “But it was a third-and-3, and I was very much aware
of where the ball was going, where it was headed and if there was any way it
could be turned around. And they were hurrying up to the ball to snap it, so I
really didn’t get a great call from upstairs. But I’ve been overly aggressive
with those calls, not waiting for any kind of advice from upstairs.”</p>


By those calls, Coughlin means potential game-changers. He’s had some close
ones and has lost his last five challenges.</p>


“It seems like we’ve had a series of things that have not been clear, and
even when the pictures are there, have not been really clear,” he said. “But
I’ve gone ahead and challenged anyway. I’ve done so for a number of
reasons.”</p>


One more gripe Coughlin had with the officiating was the interpretation of
the Calvin Johnson rule on Greg Jennings’ touchdown. Jennings takes a while to
control the ball and when he finally does, it seems he might have gotten only
one foot down.</p>


Coughlin said a few weeks ago he was <a href="http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2011/10/giants_coach_tom_coughlin_look.html">looking
for “consistency” in the rule</a>. Today, he said he’s still searching.</p>
“I would go so far as to say most of us know exactly what the rule reads
like, but I’ve seen it interpreted a lot of different ways,” he said. “It’s
confusing to me.” Read more...

DragonSoul
12-05-2011, 07:33 PM
Nice to see it is being brought to light. I hate when teams blame refs. We have had bad calls all year but this game the Refs cost us. I said 2 my friend we will have to beat the refs and make plays.

People seem to forget the woodson mugging on Nicks that wasn't called PI. That was the play even woodson acknowledge the play by fist pumping nicks after the TD. That whole game was sloppy.

Finely got 1 call he was correct to get, 1 that he could argue, but all others were none calls, like when blackburn covered him going up the seam and finley flopped and missed the catch, then looked to get a bs flag. Was shocked they didn't throw 1.

NYfanatic
12-05-2011, 07:35 PM
I wold spit on a NFL ref if I ever saw one. serious they are garbage like the MLB ones.

DragonSoul
12-05-2011, 07:38 PM
I wold spit on a NFL ref if I ever saw one. serious they are garbage like the MLB ones.
They have been bad this year. Seems every time they try to improve they make it worse.

It is like regulations and laws. You need a template, but if you start going crazy it just makes everyone wonder what is legal vs illegal anymore.

NYfanatic
12-05-2011, 07:39 PM
I wold spit on a NFL ref if I ever saw one. serious they are garbage like the MLB ones.
They have been bad this year. Seems every time they try to improve they make it worse.

It is like regulations and laws. You need a template, but if you start going crazy it just makes everyone wonder what is legal vs illegal anymore.
I havent seen improvement but digression.

Beelzeboss
12-05-2011, 07:45 PM
that was the worst called game iv ever seen.

giantyankee1976
12-05-2011, 07:51 PM
I wold spit on a NFL ref if I ever saw one. serious they are garbage like the MLB ones.
They have been bad this year. Seems every time they try to improve they make it worse.

It is like regulations and laws. You need a template, but if you start going crazy it just makes everyone wonder what is legal vs illegal anymore.

th3e issue is the NFL has become so ticky-tacky with the rules. Mike Pereira sickens me, and yet all he's doing is being a lawyer with the rules.

down to minute detail in other words.

Jennings catch for example, was ruled a TD because his left hand was gripping the ball despite the right hand adjusting.

the ticky-tack rules lawyering of the greater NFL and the refs has really worn thin on me.

the desire for Madden-esque high-scoring affairs has worn on me.

the stinkin' reviews for every TD scored is tedious too

I just wish they'd line up and punch each other in the mouth and let the Refs ref by the eyeball not the flatscreen

jomo
12-05-2011, 07:58 PM
Thanks RF, it was another weak performance by the zebras and one more item on a lengthy list that Roger Goodell needs to work on if he wants this game we love, to sustain its special place in our hearts.

TuckYou
12-05-2011, 08:00 PM
Glad to see TC stand up and say something, all of us fans have been saying. He will probably catch a fine for "insulting the refs" but whatever. Maybe they can use that fine money to buy some glasses for these refs.

DragonSoul
12-05-2011, 08:03 PM
I wold spit on a NFL ref if I ever saw one. serious they are garbage like the MLB ones.
They have been bad this year. Seems every time they try to improve they make it worse.

It is like regulations and laws. You need a template, but if you start going crazy it just makes everyone wonder what is legal vs illegal anymore.

*th3e issue is the NFL has become so ticky-tacky with the rules.* Mike Pereira sickens me, and yet all he's doing is being a lawyer with the rules.

down to minute detail in other words.

Jennings catch for example, was ruled a TD because his left hand was gripping the ball despite the right hand adjusting.

the ticky-tack rules lawyering of the greater NFL and the refs has really worn thin on me.

the desire for Madden-esque high-scoring affairs has worn on me.

the stinkin' reviews for every TD scored is tedious too

I just wish they'd line up and punch each other in the mouth and let the Refs ref by the eyeball not the flatscreen
What was worse was when Mike P said on the jennings TD that it seemed he had control for a moment before the ball was knocked out. He tried to say it won't be over turned but he was far from resolute.

I was like, what do you mean he seemed to have it momentarily. Thats not a catch then. YOU HAVE TO HAVE CONTROL of the ball through the action of the catch, not for a split second or momentarily.

JMFP2
12-05-2011, 08:38 PM
You'd think, being that EVERY TD IS REVIEWED, that the refs would give the benefit of the doubt, knowing that replay can confirm/deny the call.

Seems like they adopted that approach with the Packers....would have been nice to extend the same treatment to the Giants.

But I guess "Rodgers to Jennings" is more believable than "Manning to Ballard."

I'm not saying the refs cost the Giants the game...but they certainly made winning that much more difficult.

RoanokeFan
12-05-2011, 08:38 PM
Thanks RF, it was another weak performance by the zebras and one more item on a lengthy list that Roger Goodell needs to work on if he wants this game we love, to sustain its special place in our hearts.

I have no way of justifying this thought, but it does seem to me teams who are at the top of the scale get more calls than the rest of the teams. I was pissed at all of the holds not called on the Packers' offense. Sort of like if they are this good, they have to be doing everything right.

RoanokeFan
12-05-2011, 08:39 PM
Glad to see TC stand up and say something, all of us fans have been saying. He will probably catch a fine for "insulting the refs" but whatever. Maybe they can use that fine money to buy some glasses for these refs.

Sometimes you just have to stand up and tell it like it is.

DragonSoul
12-05-2011, 08:46 PM
Thanks RF, it was another weak performance by the zebras and one more item on a lengthy list that Roger Goodell needs to work on if he wants this game we love, to sustain its special place in our hearts.

I have no way of justifying this thought, but it does seem to me teams who are at the top of the scale get more calls than the rest of the teams.<font size="4" color="#0000FF"> I was pissed at all of the holds not called on the Packers' offense.</font> Sort of like if they are this good, they have to be doing everything right.
Been happening to us all year. Pointed it out around the fins games. I guess if they went by the rules they would be calling it at least half the time. Yet we some how always get called for it.

RoanokeFan
12-05-2011, 08:55 PM
Thanks RF, it was another weak performance by the zebras and one more item on a lengthy list that Roger Goodell needs to work on if he wants this game we love, to sustain its special place in our hearts.

I have no way of justifying this thought, but it does seem to me teams who are at the top of the scale get more calls than the rest of the teams.<font color="#0000FF" size="4"> I was pissed at all of the holds not called on the Packers' offense.</font> Sort of like if they are this good, they have to be doing everything right.
Been happening to us all year. Pointed it out around the fins games. I guess if they went by the rules they would be calling it at least half the time. Yet we some how always get called for it.


I don't care if they call ALL or N ONE, just do it for both teams.

DragonSoul
12-05-2011, 11:44 PM
Thanks RF, it was another weak performance by the zebras and one more item on a lengthy list that Roger Goodell needs to work on if he wants this game we love, to sustain its special place in our hearts.

I have no way of justifying this thought, but it does seem to me teams who are at the top of the scale get more calls than the rest of the teams.*<font color="#0000FF" size="4"> I was pissed at all of the holds not called on the Packers' offense.</font>* Sort of like if they are this good, they have to be doing everything right.
Been happening to us all year. Pointed it out around the fins games. I guess if they went by the rules they would be calling it at least half the time. Yet we some how always get called for it.


I don't care if they call ALL or N ONE, just do it for both teams.
My point exactly. Fair down the line. I can normally handle a blown call, but yesterday was some serious BS.

JesseJames
12-06-2011, 10:54 AM
the head of officiating said they don't look at still pictures when reviewing a play, well after this one maybe they should..

DragonSoul
12-06-2011, 11:00 AM
the head of officiating said they don't look at still pictures when reviewing a play, well after this one maybe they should..If thats true, I can understand to a degree, but they do have slow motion, maybe they need to learn to use the slow motion properly then.

MikeV
12-06-2011, 11:58 AM
The NFL rule:

"A forward pass is complete when a receiver clearly possesses the pass and touches the ground with both feet inbounds while in possession of the ball. If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot. "

The rule does not say right foot and right knee inbounds....both feet must be inbounds.....Ballard's left foot was clearly out of bounds....not RIGHT FOOT AND RIGHT KNEE


We lost guys....move on

RoanokeFan
12-06-2011, 12:09 PM
The NFL rule:

"A forward pass is complete when a receiver clearly possesses the pass and touches the ground with both feet inbounds while in possession of the ball. If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot. "

The rule does not say right foot and right knee inbounds....both feet must be inbounds.....Ballard's left foot was clearly out of bounds....not RIGHT FOOT AND RIGHT KNEE


We lost guys....move on

However, when you go to the ground as the result of contact and your knee, wrist, elbow, etc. touch the ground, the play is dead and, in this instance, he was in-bounds.

We'll move on when we're done, thanks though.

mcillo
12-06-2011, 02:23 PM
The NFL rule:

"A forward pass is complete when a receiver clearly possesses the pass and touches the ground with both feet inbounds while in possession of the ball. If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot. "

The rule does not say right foot and right knee inbounds....both feet must be inbounds.....Ballard's left foot was clearly out of bounds....not RIGHT FOOT AND RIGHT KNEE


We lost guys....move on

However, when you go to the ground as the result of contact and your knee, wrist, elbow, etc. touch the ground, the play is dead and, in this instance, he was in-bounds.*

We'll move on when we're done, thanks though.
Thank you.
Not to beat this eerie and similar game comparison, but the Patriots 07 game was near equal in it`s suspicious officiating as well; if any one remembers. A friend who`s a Cowboy fan couldn`t beleive the calls being made at the time either .

Ruttiger711
12-06-2011, 02:41 PM
The NFL rule: "A forward pass is complete when a receiver clearly possesses the pass and touches the ground with both feet inbounds while in possession of the ball. If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot. " The rule does not say right foot and right knee inbounds....both feet must be inbounds.....Ballard's left foot was clearly out of bounds....not RIGHT FOOT AND RIGHT KNEE We lost guys....move on

However, when you go to the ground as the result of contact and your knee, wrist, elbow, etc. touch the ground, the play is dead and, in this instance, he was in-bounds.

We'll move on when we're done, thanks though.
Thank you. Not to beat this eerie and similar game comparison, but the Patriots 07 game was near equal in it`s suspicious officiating as well; if any one remembers. A friend who`s a Cowboy fan couldn`t beleive the calls being made at the time either .</P>


Calls going which way?because if you ask any Pats fan there was an enormous conspiracy against THEM during the game. </P>


</P>

mcillo
12-06-2011, 04:07 PM
The NFL rule: "A forward pass is complete when a receiver clearly possesses the pass and touches the ground with both feet inbounds while in possession of the ball. If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot. " The rule does not say right foot and right knee inbounds....both feet must be inbounds.....Ballard's left foot was clearly out of bounds....not RIGHT FOOT AND RIGHT KNEE We lost guys....move on

However, when you go to the ground as the result of contact and your knee, wrist, elbow, etc. touch the ground, the play is dead and, in this instance, he was in-bounds.*

We'll move on when we're done, thanks though.
Thank you. Not to beat this eerie and similar game comparison, but the Patriots 07 game was near equal in it`s suspicious officiating as well; if any one remembers. A friend who`s a Cowboy fan couldn`t beleive the calls being made at the time either .</P>


Calls going which way?*because if you ask any Pats fan there was an enormous conspiracy against THEM during the game.* </P>


*</P> we`re talking about the regular season game , right ? They won.

Ruttiger711
12-06-2011, 04:15 PM
The NFL rule: "A forward pass is complete when a receiver clearly possesses the pass and touches the ground with both feet inbounds while in possession of the ball. If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot. " The rule does not say right foot and right knee inbounds....both feet must be inbounds.....Ballard's left foot was clearly out of bounds....not RIGHT FOOT AND RIGHT KNEE We lost guys....move on

However, when you go to the ground as the result of contact and your knee, wrist, elbow, etc. touch the ground, the play is dead and, in this instance, he was in-bounds.

We'll move on when we're done, thanks though.
Thank you. Not to beat this eerie and similar game comparison, but the Patriots 07 game was near equal in it`s suspicious officiating as well; if any one remembers. A friend who`s a Cowboy fan couldn`t beleive the calls being made at the time either .</P>


Calls going which way?because if you ask any Pats fan there was an enormous conspiracy against THEM during the game. </P>


</P>


we`re talking about the regular season game , right ? They won.</P>


Oh yeah - THAT Pats game :) - makes sense now. </P>