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RoanokeFan
02-28-2012, 12:46 PM
AWESOME OSI OVER SUPER MARIO" Y-E-S (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7621275/new-york-giants-know-osi-umenyiora-priority-mario-manningham) - VIDEO

"It was the first post-championship buzz-kill of the new year when Giants
general manager Jerry Reese told reporters at the NFL scouting combine over the
weekend that the Giants might have to say goodbye to Super Bowl hero Mario Manningham (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11329/mario-manningham) -- and Manningham agreed
with him that he's played his last Giants game. But the Giants are right to
prioritize settling defensive end Osi Umenyiora (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/4514/osi-umenyiora)'s contract status. Umenyiora's
presence is a big part of what made them unique -- and unbeatable -- in their
last two Super Bowl runs.


Reese is too keenly aware of the vagaries of personnel decisions to brag
about how he just had one of the great I-told-you-so seasons that a GM could
have. Last summer he let All-Pro wideout Steve Smith (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10495/steve-smith) and tight end Kevin Boss (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10596/kevin-boss) walk, even though they were two
of Eli Manning (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5526/eli-manning)'s favorite targets. And all that
got the Giants was a franchise record-setting season from overnight sensation Victor Cruz (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13553/victor-cruz) and the last laugh over the NFC
East rival Eagles, who spent the offseason chasing some splashy "dream team"
signings that included Smith.</p>





Now the Giants find themselves again bumping up against the salary cap, and
they are forced to make more harsh roster decisions. But if you forget for a
moment what a beautiful, acrobatic and clutch catch Manningham made along the
sideline to spark the Giants' game-winning Super Bowl drive, the harsh truth is
this: If you were to draw up a list of players the Giants should re-sign or give
a pay bump to before Manningham, he would probably rank no higher than No. 5, at
best.</p>


Umenyiora, Victor Cruz, punter Steve Weatherford (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/10127/steve-weatherford) and Brandon Jacobs (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8524/brandon-jacobs) are all ahead of Manningham.
Tight end Jake Ballard (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13530/jake-ballard) (though out with ACL surgery)
is among the Giants' 21 free agents, too.</p>


No wonder Reese demurred Saturday when asked to handicap Manningham's chances
of coming back.</p>


"I don't think it's fair to frame the odds on that," Reese told reporters at
the combine. "He's a good football player and obviously players, when free
agency comes around for them, they want to make as much money as possible. So
we'll see how it unfolds."</p>


Making Manningham no better than the Giants' fifth-best priority is a tough
thing to write. Especially for someone (me) who thought it would've been a
terrific gesture if Manning had taken the keys to that new Corvette he got for
winning his second Super Bowl MVP award and lobbed them right to Manningham
before they left the victory platform immediately after the game. Because as
brilliant as Manning's throw was, Manningham's tightroping 38-yard catch along
the sideline with two defenders about to smack him was even better.</p>


That's the sort of sentimental gesture that would've been great to see.</p>


But reaching for Manningham when the Giants' big-picture suggests they have a
lot of other needs? No. That makes less sense.</p>


This isn't a Steve Smith redux. That call by the Giants was tougher. Smith
had already been to a Pro Bowl and had a 100-catch season when he was allowed to
walk. Manningham's career highs are 60 catches and nine TDs, but he dipped to
just 39 and four in 12 games played in 2011.</p>


Coughlin has already said he believes Jerrel Jernigan (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14040/jerrel-jernigan) can move into Manningham's
No. 3 receiving slot alongside Hakeem Nicks (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/12586/hakeem-nicks) and Cruz, and -- even more to
the point -- it's already been proved that having a three-headed pass rush like
the Giants used during their last two title runs makes even the best
quarterbacks look ordinary and vulnerable.</p>

<div class="mod-container mod-no-footer mod-inline content-box floatright mod-no-header-footer">
<div class="mod-content">
<h4>Big Blue's Super Season</h4>Brett Favre (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/112/brett-favre), Aaron Rodgers (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8439/aaron-rodgers), Tom Brady (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/2330/tom-brady) (three times in a row), Tony Romo (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/5209/tony-romo) and Matt Ryan (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11237/matt-ryan) are just some of the Pro Bowl
quarterbacks the Giants knocked off when it mattered most. And it didn't matter
if the Giants' defensive coordinator at the time was Steve Spagnuolo or Perry
Fewell. It didn't matter if the three-man trio the Giants sent after people was
Michael Strahan (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/495/michael-strahan), Justin Tuck (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8488/justin-tuck) and Umenyiora, or Tuck,
Umenyiora and Jason Pierre-Paul (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13256/jason-pierre-paul).</div></div>


The effect of the Giants' pass rush on opposing offenses was devastating.
Every play was like roulette. Whom do you double-team when they're all coming?
The sum of them is even greater than the parts.</p>


Reese's predecessor, Ernie Accorsi, always used to say the two hardest things
to find in the NFL are a franchise quarterback and linemen who can rush the
passer.</p>


The Giants have both. And there's no reason to mess with such an enviable and
winning combination now.</p>


Umenyiora has been hurt often, it's true. And next season he'll be 30. But
when he came back late last season, his effect on the Giants' stumbling defense
was transformative. Umenyiora came back from his latest knee injury to gouge out
5 sacks in the last five games, just as Tuck was getting healthier too. And the
Giants ran the table.</p>


So as long as Umenyiora doesn't make some crazy demands and as long as the
Giants don't insult him by telling him he has to prove himself yet again, this
is a deal that should get done. And it needs to get done.</p>


Umenyiora had his grievances against Reese and the team a year ago, and it
was hard to blame him. He was underpaid after the 10.5 sacks and 10 forced
fumbles he caused in 2010, and when he said he wanted a raise before the 2011
season, the Giants' response -- a contract is a contract -- made him unhappy
enough to file a lawsuit, allege that Reese reneged on a promise to renegotiate
his contract, and threaten a long holdout. But give Umenyiora this: When he did
shut up and play, he was everything the Giants could've asked for. He kept his
word to leave the off-field business off the field, just as teammates like Tuck
predicted he would.</p>


And Reese has been smart enough not to hold a grudge.</p>


So the Giants should do what they can to keep a winning combination going
even if it means accepting the idea that with Umenyiora, it might always be
something. And if Manningham looks around, decides the grass doesn't look all
that greener someplace else after all, and decides to stay for something short
of a windfall, as Brandon Jacobs is willing to do? Even better.</p>


Who wants to risk being Jerry Reese's latest I-told-you-so?"</p>

GameTime
02-28-2012, 12:57 PM
thanks Ro...</P>


I think the decisons last season regarding Smith and Boss were not as difficult as the media makes it seem. </P>


1...Boss is one good hit away from missinggames because of his history with concussions which he proved at the Raiders. Plus they gave him 8 mil. Easy decsion if yuo ask me.</P>


2....Smith was not cleared by the Giants med staff and was insistant and saying he was good to go. Who do listen to....they player or the docs??. You listen to the docs. They were right of course. Another easy decision IMO. </P>


No the fact that Ballard and Cruz worked out so well makes Reeses' decsions that much more genius is a cherry on the cake so to speak.</P>


This year he has a MUCH more difficult job of jockying money and contract to com eunder the cp AND keep what he may deem as key players. </P>


BTW....if Eli gave the Corvette keys to Manningham...... Tuck would be not have appreciated that......just sayin'......</P>

RoanokeFan
02-28-2012, 01:07 PM
thanks Ro...</p>


I think the decisons last season regarding Smith and Boss were not as difficult as the media makes it seem. </p>


1...Boss is one good hit away from missinggames because of his history with concussions which he proved at the Raiders. Plus they gave him 8 mil. Easy decsion if yuo ask me.</p>


2....Smith was not cleared by the Giants med staff and was insistant and saying he was good to go. Who do listen to....they player or the docs??. You listen to the docs. They were right of course. Another easy decision IMO. </p>


No the fact that Ballard and Cruz worked out so well makes Reeses' decsions that much more genius is a cherry on the cake so to speak.</p>


This year he has a MUCH more difficult job of jockying money and contract to com eunder the cp AND keep what he may deem as key players. </p>


BTW....if Eli gave the Corvette keys to Manningham...... Tuck would be not have appreciated that......just sayin'......</p>

We have to defer to Reese's judgment in these matters now. The other day someone posted that Reese needed to get his priorities in order because a media head suggested that we were looking at a particular player/position and the poster was indignant that Reese would do that. I almost went ballistic. Here's a guy who has made far more right decisions than not.

Smith and Boss are the most recent examples. I can rememeber when Smith went to the Eagles and training camp was underway all of the negative hype we heard when Cruz dropped a pass in practice.

We are a fickle bunch to be sure but those who can't now take a breath and let Reese's pieces get the job done need to find another calling.

nygsb42champs
02-28-2012, 02:40 PM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.

Redeyejedi
02-28-2012, 02:43 PM
If Salary cap wasnt an issue mario would be here but it is. I hate to lose him but its the nature of the game. I would rather lose him then lose Nicks or Cruz

blueomaha
02-28-2012, 03:13 PM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.i agree 100%...no brainer, IMO.....

RoanokeFan
02-28-2012, 03:15 PM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.

Sort of a no-brainer

Diamondring
02-28-2012, 03:23 PM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if the pass by Eli was a little bit better in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.

GameTime
02-28-2012, 03:42 PM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if <FONT color=#000080 size=4>the pass by Eli was a little bit better</FONT> in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.</P>


WTF????come on man....2 inches in either direction and that pass was incomplete. That completion was the perfect mix of pass and catch......</P>


I dont get that statement at all...</P>


</P>


</P>

Diamondring
02-28-2012, 03:49 PM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if <FONT color=#000080 size=4>the pass by Eli was a little bit better</FONT> in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.</P>


WTF????come on man....2 inches in either direction and that pass was incomplete. That completion was the perfect mix of pass and catch......</P>


I dont get that statement at all...</P>


*</P>


*</P>That pass was very good but not pefect. This is was I said a little better. A little better and that pass would have been pefect and Mario could have ran that ball for td.

dave56dj
02-28-2012, 03:54 PM
Diamond you're not watching the right game - that pass Eli threw was perfect - and as everyone has pointed out MM is a nice reciever - probably a 2 on most teams - excellent talent - with poor awareness - does not read D well on option routes and that has lead to more misscommunication with eli then the other 2 - hakeem and cruz - so he falls to 3 and we can't pay him like a 2 - simple as that.

GameTime
02-28-2012, 04:25 PM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if <FONT color=#000080 size=4>the pass by Eli was a little bit better</FONT> in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.</P>


WTF????come on man....2 inches in either direction and that pass was incomplete. That completion was the perfect mix of pass and catch......</P>


I dont get that statement at all...</P>


</P>


</P>


That pass was very good but not pefect. This is was I said a little better. A little better and that pass would have been pefect and Mario could have ran that ball for td.</P>


Ok....perfection is impossible...</P>


show where MM had to slow down one bit to catch that pass....he didnt. He actually speeds up the last several steps of his route.</P>


Sorry Bro...you're crazy....[;)]</P>

bansaw
02-28-2012, 04:48 PM
lol GWAT at his finest

hard to believe there is that much fail in one guy but he proves it day in and day out

RoanokeFan
02-28-2012, 05:29 PM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if <font color="#000080" size="4">the pass by Eli was a little bit better</font> in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.</p>


WTF????come on man....2 inches in either direction and that pass was incomplete. That completion was the perfect mix of pass and catch......</p>


I dont get that statement at all...</p>


</p>


</p>That pass was very good but not pefect. This is was I said a little better. A little better and that pass would have been pefect and Mario could have ran that ball for td.

Wasn't he bracketed by two defenders? You can't say what would have happened with any certainty had the pass been thrown, as you suggest if should have been, perfectly. It was good enough to put us in a position to win the game.

Diamondring
02-28-2012, 06:25 PM
lol GWAT at his finest

hard to believe there is that much fail in one guy but he proves it day in and day out
My friend, you are right and nothing can get me mad after our favorite team won the Superbowl.

G-Men4Supes
02-28-2012, 11:50 PM
The only way Mario takes that sideline pass from Eli to the house is if a sniper in the upper deck takes out Patrick Chung.

Getting back to Osi vs. Mario, both have great skill, but both have serious holes as players. We know that Mario makes some bad drops (potential TD passes behind the safeties, big 3rd down conversions), runs a yard short of the sticks on 3rd downs, runs inventive pass patterns that befuddle his QB, and occasionally runs too close to the sideline or fails to drag his feet. That said, he has excellent speed, does show great hands on occasion, and has a penchant for being able to score over the middle (witness all 3 TD passes in the 2011 playoffs). The Giants would probably love to have him stay, but his limitations would probably keep him from ever being a 80-catch, 1300-yd, 13-TD receiver, even if he were made a starter in the event of an injury to Nicks or Cruz.

As for Osi, he is a great pass rusher, and in 2010 caused a record 10 fumbles. But he is poor against the run, and actually makes very few tackles overall (averages 30 per season). Of course, a pass rusher should not be judged only by sacks or forced fumbles, as he can also cause disruption simply by generating pressure, and by making the offense account for him and double team him. Still, according to one metric (approximate value, from Football Reference.com), Osi is wildly inconsistent from season to season, Check out his AV numbers by season (from rookie year to 2011):

1, 6, 16, 5, 12, 5, 13, 3

Mario's AV, last 3 seasons: 7, 8, 4

Overall, I suppose Osi would be the one to prioritize, as when he excels, he adds a great dimension to the G-Men, and one that has been a hallmark of two SB-winning squads. Reese will probably feel that the loss of Mario could be made up for more easily than the loss of Osi.

Strahan4gov
02-29-2012, 12:29 AM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if the pass by Eli was a little bit better in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.

I won't even comment on the near perfect pass - but the routes thing as well??

Mario runs the wrong route all the time, so it doesn't matter what routes they design for him, he will still run some random route constantly.

giantsfan420
02-29-2012, 12:29 AM
I agree it'd be easier to replace mm than osi, but I dunno that osi would be difficult to replace. Would just need a pass rush specialist. Complete des are tough to come by, but a guy used simply to rush the edge, we could draft a guy in the first 3 rounds to do what osi does, prob not as well as osi but still effective.

And im sorry, did I really read someone say that pass by eli was a lil off? That was an absolute perfect pass. Theirs no way mm scores a td on that play...im still astonished someone could describe that pass with ANY word besides perfect...its pretty much an impossible throw, I can't say for certain theirs another qb in the league that could have made that throw. Eli put that ball into the only window possible for a catch from 40 yards away. If u were to hand the ball off into mms hands, u still couldn't put it in any better than the throw. Im honestly shocked with what some people see when watching the giants games

JJC7301
02-29-2012, 12:49 AM
thanks Ro...</p>


I think the decisons last season regarding Smith and Boss were not as difficult as the media makes it seem. </p>


1...Boss is one good hit away from missinggames because of his history with concussions which he proved at the Raiders. Plus they gave him 8 mil. Easy decsion if yuo ask me.</p>


2....Smith was not cleared by the Giants med staff and was insistant and saying he was good to go. Who do listen to....they player or the docs??. You listen to the docs. They were right of course. Another easy decision IMO. </p>


No the fact that Ballard and Cruz worked out so well makes Reeses' decsions that much more genius is a cherry on the cake so to speak.</p>


This year he has a MUCH more difficult job of jockying money and contract to com eunder the cp AND keep what he may deem as key players. </p>


BTW....if Eli gave the Corvette keys to Manningham...... Tuck would be not have appreciated that......just sayin'......</p>

We have to defer to Reese's judgment in these matters now.* The other day someone posted that Reese needed to get his priorities in order because a media head suggested that we were looking at a particular player/position and the poster was indignant that Reese would do that.* I almost went ballistic.* Here's a guy who has made far more right decisions than not.

Smith and Boss are the most recent examples.* I can rememeber when Smith went to the Eagles and training camp was underway all of the negative hype we heard when Cruz dropped a pass in practice.

We are a fickle bunch to be sure but those who can't now take a breath and let Reese's pieces get the job done need to find another calling.


+1. I'd take Osi over MM and I really want to avoid signing FAs over the next few years in order to lessen future cap problems. Focus on keeping our own guys (the ones that we can keep and the one's that make sense to keep).

I trust JR, TC, and the FO to make the right decisions. Some are going to be painful, but it's just a fact of life.

Diamondring
02-29-2012, 07:33 AM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if <font color="#000080" size="4">the pass by Eli was a little bit better</font> in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.</p>


WTF????come on man....2 inches in either direction and that pass was incomplete. That completion was the perfect mix of pass and catch......</p>


I dont get that statement at all...</p>


*</p>


*</p>That pass was very good but not pefect. This is was I said a little better. A little better and that pass would have been pefect and Mario could have ran that ball for td.

Wasn't he bracketed by two defenders?* You can't say what would have happened with any certainty had the pass been thrown, as you suggest if should have been, perfectly.* It was good enough to put us in a position to win the game.*
I never said the pass was a bad one but there are better ones that could result in better things like a td or even more of a gain. Just because the pass was a good one doesn't mean I can't talk about a better pass just to be talking about it.

I thought that a lot of posters were smart but a lot of you think one way too much. If I would have said the pass was not a good one then, I can see you defending the pass but why you are trying to defend it when I never said it was not a good pass? Why a lot of posters who say they know the game and act like it do not realize that the pass has a begining, middle and end. You didn;t look at the begining of the pass. Even when the qb makes his decison on when to throw the ball is part of the pass. What if Eli reacted a little quicker. Do you know that the defenders came up to MM while the ball was in the air getting close to his hands then they came up from behind to push him away after he made the catch?

Redeyejedi
02-29-2012, 08:44 AM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if <FONT color=#000080 size=4>the pass by Eli was a little bit better</FONT> in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.</P>


WTF????come on man....2 inches in either direction and that pass was incomplete. That completion was the perfect mix of pass and catch......</P>


I dont get that statement at all...</P>


*</P>


*</P>That pass was very good but not pefect. This is was I said a little better. A little better and that pass would have been pefect and Mario could have ran that ball for td.Did u not watch the SUper Bowl post game when Steve Young and Trent Dilfer were foaming at the mouth over that pass. DIlfer could not stop talking about how great of a throw that was. He wasnt even looking in Marios direction. He was freezing Chung to try to get Mario Single coverage along the sideline.He then fired it perfectly against the sideline. The throw was 10 times better then the catch. The play was 90% Eli .
Look at the window. 6 inches further down the field its out of reach, Anymore to the sideline Ham cant keep his feet down.If the throw is to the inside Chung crushes Mario.If its 6" short Moore knocks it down.

Watch it again its Brilliant.GWAT for someone who claims to be an offensive guru u should be ashamed

GameTime
02-29-2012, 09:40 AM
Thanks RF! I would take Osi over Manningham in a hearbeat. nothing against Mario but he is at best our 3 WR. Osi adds so much to our d-line.Osi is in the same situation as Mario. Mario does have the speed to seperate and if <FONT color=#000080 size=4>the pass by Eli was a little bit better</FONT> in the Superbowl, Mario could have caught the pass and ran the ball in for a td or a bigger gain. Give Mario more quicker routes mix with the deep ones and he could be a real valuable receiver. Oh and he is also young.</P>


WTF????come on man....2 inches in either direction and that pass was incomplete. That completion was the perfect mix of pass and catch......</P>


I dont get that statement at all...</P>


</P>


</P>


That pass was very good but not pefect. This is was I said a little better. A little better and that pass would have been pefect and Mario could have ran that ball for td.

Wasn't he bracketed by two defenders? You can't say what would have happened with any certainty had the pass been thrown, as you suggest if should have been, perfectly. It was good enough to put us in a position to win the game.
I never said the pass was a bad one but there are better ones that could result in better things like a td or even more of a gain. Just because the pass was a good one doesn't mean I can't talk about a better pass just to be talking about it. I thought that a lot of posters were smart but a lot of you think one way too much. If I would have said the pass was not a good one then, I can see you defending the pass but why you are trying to defend it when I never said it was not a good pass? Why a lot of posters who say they know the game and act like it do not realize that the pass has a begining, middle and end. You didn;t look at the begining of the pass. Even when the qb makes his decison on when to throw the ball is part of the pass.<FONT color=#000080 size=4> What if Eli reacted a little quicker.</FONT> Do you know that the defenders came up to MM while the ball was in the air getting close to his hands then they came up from behind to push him away after he made the catch?</P>


you are ****ing oblivious....have you read one article about the pass?? Eli AND Gillbride said that Eli NEVER throws that pass during that play...EVER. So how the **** is he going to react "quicker" to a pass that is NEVER practiced?? Oh yeah....MM was 3rd read genius. Beside if the throws is "quicker" as you say Mario never gets it and Chung never gets frozen for that all important split second. Sorry for the cursing and such but your arguement is off the wall and ridiculous beyond belief...</P>


If you are GWAT, like I have read in another post, then I am not surprised by your *** backwards view of this play. </P>