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View Full Version : Posters looking for a big name LB are bound to be disappointed again



jhamburg
03-02-2012, 02:22 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history.

2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead.

2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead.

2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead.

2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no.

2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince.

Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

NYG216
03-02-2012, 02:26 PM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.

TuckYou
03-02-2012, 02:26 PM
Actually, from what I heard, we were going to take Rolando McClain if he slipped a few more spots. We really liked him. But the Raiders took him earlier then anticipated and we lucked out with JPP at 15. </P>


Also, I dont think Ayers was high on Reese list. With Prince, a top 10 talent falling to 19, it was a no brainer. </P>


This year guys like Kuechly, Brown and Hightower looks pretty promissing and may be more up on Reeses list, especailly with us sitting at 32. </P>


Then again, we could go DE or DB or WR like we always do. </P>

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 02:27 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history.

2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead.

2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead.

2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead.

2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no.

2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince.

Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 02:27 PM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl<u><font size="6">s</font></u> with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.


fixed it for ya

TheEnigma
03-02-2012, 02:31 PM
Don't see it happening in the first honestly unless there's literally no one else good at #32.

Brown is really athletic. He can keep up with TE's in the passing game but we already have two LB's who can do that.

Hightower is a massive man in the middle but he projects more as a 3-4 ILB due to his lack of speed. Still, if he can flash the ability to rush the passer with his hands in the dirt, he could serve us as a hybrid DE/LB like Kiwi does currently.

Even then, I think the pick in the 1st will be an OL, DB, or DL.

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 02:36 PM
Don't see it happening in the first honestly unless there's literally no one else good at #32.

Brown is really athletic. He can keep up with TE's in the passing game but we already have two LB's who can do that.

Hightower is a massive man in the middle but he projects more as a 3-4 ILB due to his lack of speed. Still, if he can flash the ability to rush the passer with his hands in the dirt, he could serve us as a hybrid DE/LB like Kiwi does currently.

Even then, I think the pick in the 1st will be an OL, DB, or DL.

it just depends on REese's draft board is.

If Vontaze Burfict falls, I could see us nabbing him

jhamburg
03-02-2012, 02:38 PM
Don't see it happening in the first honestly unless there's literally no one else good at #32.

Brown is really athletic. He can keep up with TE's in the passing game but we already have two LB's who can do that.

Hightower is a massive man in the middle but he projects more as a 3-4 ILB due to his lack of speed. Still, if he can flash the ability to rush the passer with his hands in the dirt, he could serve us as a hybrid DE/LB like Kiwi does currently.

Even then, I think the pick in the 1st will be an OL, DB, or DL.

it just depends on REese's draft board is.

If Vontaze Burfict falls,* I could see us nabbing him


I liked Burflict but he had an awful combine he will be a late round pick at best at this point.

Manning2Niks
03-02-2012, 02:38 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

nhpgiantsfan
03-02-2012, 02:40 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history. 2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead. 2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead. 2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead. 2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no. 2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince. Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick



</P>


I wouldn't call Herzlich a lock at all. Great story, I will root for him wherever he goes, but he barely made the team this year, and didnt see much playing time except for specials. I would say Paysinger has a spot over Herzlich.</P>

myles2424
03-02-2012, 02:44 PM
I honestly like some of the mid round LBs best.....it amazes me some don't see LB as a bigger need.....you can argue allday that these guys have potential,but our depth is shady & our starters are average......
We have playmakers at every position other than LB.....
Can you imagine our D if we had a Nicks,cruz, JPP type impact player at LB........

Kruunch
03-02-2012, 02:47 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history.

2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead.

2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead.

2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead.

2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no.

2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince.

Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick





Greg Jones is not a lock to make the 2012 final roster. Neither is Herzlich.

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 02:58 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 03:00 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history. 2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead. 2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead. 2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead. 2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no. 2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince. Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick



</p>


I wouldn't call Herzlich a lock at all. Great story, I will root for him wherever he goes, but he barely made the team this year, and didnt see much playing time except for specials. I would say Paysinger has a spot over Herzlich.</p>

actually he got the start, played a good game, and then got hurt for pretty much the season at that point. PLUS he played very good on specials this year. Herzlich is absolutely a lock

Paysinger is on the bubble... i think he grabs the 8th spot over Sintim and Tracy

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 03:01 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history.

2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead.

2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead.

2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead.

2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no.

2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince.

Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick





Greg Jones is not a lock to make the 2012 final roster. Neither is Herzlich.

Herzlich is an absolute lock. He played good when he got his shot this year, he just got hurt the same day. He also can play all 3 LB spots and he plays great special teams..

Herz is a lock

I'd give Jones the benefit of the doubt and say that he most likely makes the team

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 03:03 PM
I honestly like some of the mid round LBs best.....it amazes me some don't see LB as a bigger need.....you can argue allday that these guys have potential,but our depth is shady &amp; our starters are average......
We have playmakers at every position other than LB.....
Can you imagine our D if we had a Nicks,cruz, JPP type impact player at LB........

it amazes me that alot of people don't recognize we've won two superbowls with two below par lber corps.

Not to mention that having a bunch of different guys that do things well helps us match up better...

And Boley had a hell of a year and is definitly an above average line backer. For what we ask Kiwi to do, he is above average. He is great vs the run and can rush the passer.

When we need coverage in there we can throw JWill out there.

burier
03-02-2012, 03:16 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.

Id also like to say that the linebacker corp in 07 wasn't great but it did have AP who was no slouch and he made the defense go that year so..

Also the weakness at linebacker has created a weakness in the secondary. Right now we're paying Rolle alot of money to play lineback/nickle corner BS which basically nullifies his skill set.

If linebacker isnt addressed this off season someone fell asleep in the getaway car

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 03:17 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office

giantsfan420
03-02-2012, 03:18 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


ur slipping...first, burfect wont go 1rst round, i'd wager anything on that. MAYBE a 2nd round pick but I think 3-UDFA could be possible for him.

and lofton didnt get franchised bc he isnt worth the franchise tag/cost...he's a 2 down lb. i could see him getting the same type deal as tulloch got this past offseason.

out of all the FA's, I'd put Lofton among the few we prob could afford. since we havent even contacted blackburn or goff from what i infer, reese could very well be targeting lofton, and drafting a lb to move behind lofton, herz/jones on the depth chart...

burier
03-02-2012, 03:26 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

Manning2Niks
03-02-2012, 03:26 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


Well with reports of us interested in Grubbs is think Reese has some thoughts on bringing in players looking for a nice contract. Who'd have thought Wed have added a contract like baas' last offseason?

Then factor in that were losing 2 MLBs (goff and Blackburn) potentially.

Just food for thought. Didn't have to act like I'm some tard for suggesting it when it's not super far fetched. Appreciate the feedback though ;)

Manning2Niks
03-02-2012, 03:29 PM
Ps, not really as mad bitter or hurt ad that came off lol. Was just playin

jhamburg
03-02-2012, 03:38 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

Realistically we're more of a 4-2-5 defense than 4-3.

burier
03-02-2012, 03:44 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

Realistically we're more of a 4-2-5 defense than 4-3.

Yeah but thats something we're running to try to hide a deficientcy we've got at linebacker and it has made it very difficult for us to stop the run. (lord only knows what would have happened in the NFC CHamp game if San Fran just sticks with the run)

We've got press corners...rangy safteys a strong front 4...if we get 2 linebackers who can play with Boley we're stacked and we can cut this 4-2 nonesense.

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 03:54 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


ur slipping...first, burfect wont go 1rst round, i'd wager anything on that. MAYBE a 2nd round pick but I think 3-UDFA could be possible for him.

and lofton didnt get franchised bc he isnt worth the franchise tag/cost...he's a 2 down lb. i could see him getting the same type deal as tulloch got this past offseason.

out of all the FA's, I'd put Lofton among the few we prob could afford. since we havent even contacted blackburn or goff from what i infer, reese could very well be targeting lofton, and drafting a lb to move behind lofton, herz/jones on the depth chart...

Burfict was just an example and you (as I) have no clue what Jerry Reese's draft board looks like.

I got a paypal account and will give u odds that there is zero shot he goes UFDA and even money that hes 2nd round at worst

Tulloch was a victim of the new CBA this year and wasn't heralded as the player Lofton is. We'll get a great example if your right about that anyway cuz Tulloch only signed a one year deal so hes a free agents as well and I think Tulloch will get a much bigger and better deal this year from someone and that will be the range Lofton will be in, not Tulloch's contract last year

I've read a couple of places that we're working on Goff and Coughlin expects him back next year.

No shot with the cap situation we're in, defensive philosophy we have, and the cost that Lofton will be that we'll be anywhere near him. Plus lets keep in mind we still have to possibly extend Cruz and Osi while dealing with Beatty, Kiwi, Phillips, and Nicks in freeagency in the next two years.

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 03:56 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

You do realize that most of what im saying is going hand in hand with Jerry Reese's philosophy right?

Over value? You made a ridiculous comment, I would like blackburn back and if he did he would go into camp as the starter.

How much did I say I would pay Blackburn, just curious?

Hell, when did I even say Blackburn was a nice guy?

Do you just create argument in your mental message boards and just put my name in the posts? Am I your Tyler Durden?

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 03:59 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


Well with reports of us interested in Grubbs is think Reese has some thoughts on bringing in players looking for a nice contract. Who'd have thought Wed have added a contract like baas' last offseason?

Then factor in that were losing 2 MLBs (goff and Blackburn) potentially.

Just food for thought. Didn't have to act like I'm some tard for suggesting it when it's not super far fetched. Appreciate the feedback though ;)

yea but that article really has no facts backing it up. Its just a writer stating an idea he had and the reasons why. Theres no real report or rumor that the Giants are actually looking at Grubbs.

Well we had to do alot of restructuing to get that contract and had to force feed some contracts (bradshaw). Can't keep restrucuting every year, especially when you have the free agents coming up soon like we do.

haha na wasn't meant to make u feel stupid, more of a don't get urself excited for no reason type thing

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 04:00 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

Realistically we're more of a 4-2-5 defense than 4-3.

Yeah but thats something we're running to try to hide a deficientcy we've got at linebacker and it has made it very difficult for us to stop the run. (lord only knows what would have happened in the NFC CHamp game if San Fran just sticks with the run)

We've got press corners...rangy safteys a strong front 4...if we get 2 linebackers who can play with Boley we're stacked and we can cut this 4-2 nonesense.

actually thats not true because Fewell ran alot of it in Buffalo as well...

Manning2Niks
03-02-2012, 04:08 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


Well with reports of us interested in Grubbs is think Reese has some thoughts on bringing in players looking for a nice contract. Who'd have thought Wed have added a contract like baas' last offseason?

Then factor in that were losing 2 MLBs (goff and Blackburn) potentially.

Just food for thought. Didn't have to act like I'm some tard for suggesting it when it's not super far fetched. Appreciate the feedback though ;)

yea but that article really has no facts backing it up. Its just a writer stating an idea he had and the reasons why.* Theres no real report or rumor that the Giants are actually looking at Grubbs.

Well we had to do alot of restructuing to get that contract and had to force feed some contracts (bradshaw). Can't keep restrucuting every year, especially when you have the free agents coming up soon like we do.

haha na wasn't meant to make u feel stupid, more of a don't get urself excited for no reason type thing


Haha, nah u def feel ya. I was trying to be funny. Realized it didn't come across so well.

I don't expect to get him, just like a wish list type thing that I tried to seem reasonable with logic-esq thinking.

I'd REALLY love tulloch, but figured I'd be semi reasonable lol

burier
03-02-2012, 04:08 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

You do realize that most of what im saying is going hand in hand with Jerry Reese's philosophy right?

Over value? You made a ridiculous comment, I would like blackburn back and if he did he would go into camp as the starter.

How much did I say I would pay Blackburn, just curious?

Hell, when did I even say Blackburn was a nice guy?

Do you just create argument in your mental message boards and just put my name in the posts? Am I your Tyler Durden?


I don't think Reese's philosophy is to keep players around for sentimental reasons (Herz...who you call a lock?????) or David Tyree would still be on the roster.

Yes Overvalue. You want Chase, a marginal player to go into camp as a starter. You obviously think the guy is a better player than he actually is.

Did I say anything about Blackburn's pay?

When I said you'd overpay I was talking about Chris Canty.


What else could you like about blackburn other than he seems like a nice guy? I was actually trying to give you credit here. Otherwise you're just psychotic.

Oh a fightclub refrence. Nice..when in doubt name drop some pop-culture. Gotcha.

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 04:14 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

You do realize that most of what im saying is going hand in hand with Jerry Reese's philosophy right?

Over value? You made a ridiculous comment, I would like blackburn back and if he did he would go into camp as the starter.

How much did I say I would pay Blackburn, just curious?

Hell, when did I even say Blackburn was a nice guy?

Do you just create argument in your mental message boards and just put my name in the posts? Am I your Tyler Durden?


I don't think Reese's philosophy is to keep players around for sentimental reasons (Herz...who you call a lock?????) or David Tyree would still be on the roster.

Yes Overvalue. You want Chase, a marginal player to go into camp as a starter. You obviously think the guy is a better player than he actually is.

Did I say anything about Blackburn's pay?

When I said you'd overpay I was talking about Chris Canty.


What else could you like about blackburn other than he seems like a nice guy? I was actually trying to give you credit here. Otherwise you're just psychotic.

Oh a fightclub refrence. Nice..when in doubt name drop some pop-culture. Gotcha.

absolute lock for the time is Herzlich. Has nothing to do wtih the feel good story

It has to do with the fact that once he got on the field and started this year he did good and got hurt. Hes a guy that can play all three LB positions, which is very valuable. And you CONSTANTLY hear Coughlin and the coaching staff about how coachable of a player he is, how smart he is, how he retains evewrything after you tell him once.

Your crazy if u think hes not ABSOLUTELY 110% back next year.

Okay, so then when did I even call Chris Canty a good guy?

No i think his PLAY which lead to a SUPERBOWL win would warrant him the starting job walking into camp. IF we go seperate watys, we go seperate ways. If we don't hammer things down with Goff, i would imagine Blackburn is back (if its not too late and he signs somewhere else).

And again I named about 10-12 players throughout those threads yesterday who are players similiar to Canty with Similiar deals. Hes really not overpaid. You think hes overpaid jus tbecause hes structured high this year while all the guys with big deals are structured low for this year.

I may of misunderstood what u were referencing with a couple of things at first, but theres no doubt even still ur putting words in my mouth and making up different arguments than what I am actually saying.

And with blackburn, I like the fact that we looked better against the run, our defense went on a superbowl run with him leading the calls on defense, and the fact that he shows up big in big games... call me crazy

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 04:16 PM
oh and another thing about Herzlich - damn fine special teams player

another reason why hes guaranteed to be here

jhamburg
03-02-2012, 04:21 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


ur slipping...first, burfect wont go 1rst round, i'd wager anything on that. MAYBE a 2nd round pick but I think 3-UDFA could be possible for him.

and lofton didnt get franchised bc he isnt worth the franchise tag/cost...he's a 2 down lb. i could see him getting the same type deal as tulloch got this past offseason.

out of all the FA's, I'd put Lofton among the few we prob could afford. since we havent even contacted blackburn or goff from what i infer, reese could very well be targeting lofton, and drafting a lb to move behind lofton, herz/jones on the depth chart...

Burfict was just an example and you (as I) have no clue what Jerry Reese's draft board looks like.

I got a paypal account and will give u* odds that there is zero shot he goes UFDA and even money that hes 2nd round at worst

Tulloch was a victim of the new CBA this year and wasn't heralded as the player Lofton is. We'll get a great example if your right about that anyway cuz Tulloch only signed a one year deal so hes a free agents as well and I think Tulloch will get a much bigger and better deal this year from someone and that will be the range Lofton will be in, not Tulloch's contract last year

I've read a couple of places that we're working on Goff and Coughlin expects him back next year.

No shot with the cap situation we're in, defensive philosophy we have, and the cost that Lofton will be that we'll be anywhere near him.* Plus lets keep in mind we still have to possibly extend Cruz and Osi while dealing with Beatty, Kiwi, Phillips, and Nicks in freeagency in the next two years.


If you're serious about the bet I will take the even money on Burfict by the end of the 2nd.

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 04:22 PM
PM me

hungrrrry
03-02-2012, 04:29 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history. 2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead. 2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead. 2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead. 2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no. 2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince. Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick



</P>


I wouldn't call Herzlich a lock at all. Great story, I will root for him wherever he goes, but he barely made the team this year, and didnt see much playing time except for specials. I would say Paysinger has a spot over Herzlich.</P>Thats right! Herzlich is a good story but we have substantial youth at the position...even Paysinger could lose out to a Quality FA like Lofton or other. If Goff comes back at 100% and we bring in Lofton I don't see any sense in bringing in any LB's from the draft at all.

TuckYou
03-02-2012, 04:32 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history. 2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead. 2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead. 2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead. 2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no. 2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince. Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick



Greg Jones is not a lock to make the 2012 final roster. Neither is Herzlich.

Herzlich is an absolute lock. He played good when he got his shot this year, he just got hurt the same day. He also can play all 3 LB spots and he plays great special teams..

Herz is a lock

I'd give Jones the benefit of the doubt and say that he most likely makes the team
</P>


Jones, Herzlich, Paysinger are far from locks. Jwill Boley Kiwi are. </P>

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 04:35 PM
Jones I would guess would make the team... i retract sayin he was a lock

Barring a real bad injury or a cancer type thing - Herzlich WILL be a Giant this year.

Coaches love him, knows all 3 LB position, plays great special teams, and evne played good on defense when he got the chance.

LOCK

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 04:36 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history. 2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead. 2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead. 2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead. 2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no. 2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince. Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick



</p>


I wouldn't call Herzlich a lock at all. Great story, I will root for him wherever he goes, but he barely made the team this year, and didnt see much playing time except for specials. I would say Paysinger has a spot over Herzlich.</p>Thats right! Herzlich is a good story but we have substantial youth at the position...even Paysinger could lose out to a Quality FA like Lofton or other. If Goff comes back at 100% and we bring in Lofton I don't see any sense in bringing in any LB's from the draft at all.


I think a bigger lock is the fact that we have no shot at getting Lofton

burier
03-02-2012, 04:53 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

You do realize that most of what im saying is going hand in hand with Jerry Reese's philosophy right?

Over value? You made a ridiculous comment, I would like blackburn back and if he did he would go into camp as the starter.

How much did I say I would pay Blackburn, just curious?

Hell, when did I even say Blackburn was a nice guy?

Do you just create argument in your mental message boards and just put my name in the posts? Am I your Tyler Durden?


I don't think Reese's philosophy is to keep players around for sentimental reasons (Herz...who you call a lock?????) or David Tyree would still be on the roster.

Yes Overvalue. You want Chase, a marginal player to go into camp as a starter. You obviously think the guy is a better player than he actually is.

Did I say anything about Blackburn's pay?

When I said you'd overpay I was talking about Chris Canty.


What else could you like about blackburn other than he seems like a nice guy? I was actually trying to give you credit here. Otherwise you're just psychotic.

Oh a fightclub refrence. Nice..when in doubt name drop some pop-culture. Gotcha.

absolute lock for the time is Herzlich. Has nothing to do wtih the feel good story

It has to do with the fact that once he got on the field and started this year he did good and got hurt. Hes a guy that can play all three LB positions, which is very valuable. And you CONSTANTLY hear Coughlin and the coaching staff about how coachable of a player he is, how smart he is, how he retains evewrything after you tell him once.

Your crazy if u think hes not ABSOLUTELY 110% back next year.

Okay, so then when did I even call Chris Canty a good guy?

No i think his PLAY which lead to a SUPERBOWL win would warrant him the starting job walking into camp.* IF we go seperate watys, we go seperate ways. If we don't hammer things down with Goff, i would imagine Blackburn is back (if its not too late and he signs somewhere else).

And again I named about 10-12 players throughout those threads yesterday who are players similiar to Canty with Similiar deals.* Hes really not overpaid. You think hes overpaid jus tbecause hes structured high this year while all the guys with big deals are structured low for this year.*

I may of misunderstood what u were referencing with a couple of things at first, but theres no doubt even still ur putting words in my mouth and making up different arguments than what I am actually saying.

And with blackburn, I like the fact that we looked better against the run, our defense went on a superbowl run with him leading the calls on defense, and the fact that he shows up big in big games... call me crazy


Im not putting words in your mouth.

Canty IS overpaid. there's no way around it. Especially in refrence to our Cap situation. You couch some story about how is contract is prorated and I don't care I'm saying in 2012 he should make less than he's set to make.

With Blackburn and Herz...Im not saying these guys arent going to make the team or whatever I HOPE Herz makes the team....but come on Herz isn't a lock.

The fact that the coaches think highly of him is beside the point. They think (or say) good things about all the guys.

Im confused. Either you truly think that linebacker so unimportant that basically anyone could do it or you really are a poor judge of talent.

Kruunch
03-02-2012, 04:56 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history.

2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead.

2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead.

2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead.

2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no.

2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince.

Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick





Greg Jones is not a lock to make the 2012 final roster. Neither is Herzlich.

Herzlich is an absolute lock. He played good when he got his shot this year, he just got hurt the same day. He also can play all 3 LB spots and he plays great special teams..

Herz is a lock

I'd give Jones the benefit of the doubt and say that he most likely makes the team


No recent post-3rd round draft pick or light-weight contract is a lock. Phillip Dillard can tell you this.

I *think* Herzlich has a good shot to be on the final roster in 2012 ... but not a lock.

I'd actually be surprised if Jones is on the final roster. He just doesn't cut it at the NFL level imo. His only tenuous hold is that he's been marginally good on ST.

Kruunch
03-02-2012, 04:59 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


ur slipping...first, burfect wont go 1rst round, i'd wager anything on that. MAYBE a 2nd round pick but I think 3-UDFA could be possible for him.

and lofton didnt get franchised bc he isnt worth the franchise tag/cost...he's a 2 down lb. i could see him getting the same type deal as tulloch got this past offseason.

out of all the FA's, I'd put Lofton among the few we prob could afford. since we havent even contacted blackburn or goff from what i infer, reese could very well be targeting lofton, and drafting a lb to move behind lofton, herz/jones on the depth chart...

Burfict was just an example and you (as I) have no clue what Jerry Reese's draft board looks like.

I got a paypal account and will give u* odds that there is zero shot he goes UFDA and even money that hes 2nd round at worst

Tulloch was a victim of the new CBA this year and wasn't heralded as the player Lofton is. We'll get a great example if your right about that anyway cuz Tulloch only signed a one year deal so hes a free agents as well and I think Tulloch will get a much bigger and better deal this year from someone and that will be the range Lofton will be in, not Tulloch's contract last year

I've read a couple of places that we're working on Goff and Coughlin expects him back next year.

No shot with the cap situation we're in, defensive philosophy we have, and the cost that Lofton will be that we'll be anywhere near him.* Plus lets keep in mind we still have to possibly extend Cruz and Osi while dealing with Beatty, Kiwi, Phillips, and Nicks in freeagency in the next two years.


If you're serious about the bet I will take the even money on Burfict by the end of the 2nd.

I'd take that bet ... at least on Burfict not being a 2nd round pick.

I think he'll be drafted but past the 3rd round. Poor Combine and off the field issues and questionable on the field issues != high draft stock.

That and Al Davis is dead (although I do have to worry about Snyder and Jones .... hmmmm).

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 05:00 PM
You're a homer if you think our linebackers aren't embarassingly bad.

The only linebackers who are locks to make the team are Boley and Kiwi. That's how hard we suck...one of the locks isn't even a linebacker.

The fact that we haven't drafted linebackers may be more a function of our BPA stance then anything else...I don't believe the front office feels like Linebackers are unimportant.

Especially considering how many we drafted and signed last year in the late rounds in an obvious attempt to find a jewel and make up for not taking one in round 1 or 2.

BPA.

If we take a linebacker in last years draft we're drafting based on need which is just now how we draft.

BPA

In this draft I hope that BPA is a linebacker because our current onces are so bad I can't stand it.


lol im just glad your not working as a coach or in the front office



Lol I was gonna say the same thing about you but I was gonna be specific.

I was gonna talk about how you would reward players for being soft and lazy. Taking games off and taking plays off.

You'd reward players for blaming everything but their lack luster performance for losses.

You'd run the three stooges on the field to play linebacker because someonewhere along the line you got the moronic idea that linebackers don't count in a 4-3 defense.

And you'd over value and over pay lazy slow unatheletic players because you think they're nice guys.

You do realize that most of what im saying is going hand in hand with Jerry Reese's philosophy right?

Over value? You made a ridiculous comment, I would like blackburn back and if he did he would go into camp as the starter.

How much did I say I would pay Blackburn, just curious?

Hell, when did I even say Blackburn was a nice guy?

Do you just create argument in your mental message boards and just put my name in the posts? Am I your Tyler Durden?


I don't think Reese's philosophy is to keep players around for sentimental reasons (Herz...who you call a lock?????) or David Tyree would still be on the roster.

Yes Overvalue. You want Chase, a marginal player to go into camp as a starter. You obviously think the guy is a better player than he actually is.

Did I say anything about Blackburn's pay?

When I said you'd overpay I was talking about Chris Canty.


What else could you like about blackburn other than he seems like a nice guy? I was actually trying to give you credit here. Otherwise you're just psychotic.

Oh a fightclub refrence. Nice..when in doubt name drop some pop-culture. Gotcha.

absolute lock for the time is Herzlich. Has nothing to do wtih the feel good story

It has to do with the fact that once he got on the field and started this year he did good and got hurt. Hes a guy that can play all three LB positions, which is very valuable. And you CONSTANTLY hear Coughlin and the coaching staff about how coachable of a player he is, how smart he is, how he retains evewrything after you tell him once.

Your crazy if u think hes not ABSOLUTELY 110% back next year.

Okay, so then when did I even call Chris Canty a good guy?

No i think his PLAY which lead to a SUPERBOWL win would warrant him the starting job walking into camp. IF we go seperate watys, we go seperate ways. If we don't hammer things down with Goff, i would imagine Blackburn is back (if its not too late and he signs somewhere else).

And again I named about 10-12 players throughout those threads yesterday who are players similiar to Canty with Similiar deals. Hes really not overpaid. You think hes overpaid jus tbecause hes structured high this year while all the guys with big deals are structured low for this year.

I may of misunderstood what u were referencing with a couple of things at first, but theres no doubt even still ur putting words in my mouth and making up different arguments than what I am actually saying.

And with blackburn, I like the fact that we looked better against the run, our defense went on a superbowl run with him leading the calls on defense, and the fact that he shows up big in big games... call me crazy


Im not putting words in your mouth.

Canty IS overpaid. there's no way around it. Especially in refrence to our Cap situation. You couch some story about how is contract is prorated and I don't care I'm saying in 2012 he should make less than he's set to make.

With Blackburn and Herz...Im not saying these guys arent going to make the team or whatever I HOPE Herz makes the team....but come on Herz isn't a lock.

The fact that the coaches think highly of him is beside the point. They think (or say) good things about all the guys.

Im confused. Either you truly think that linebacker so unimportant that basically anyone could do it or you really are a poor judge of talent.

actually hes not - his contract is RIGHT in line with his peers. And those hands down better than him have significantly better contracts.

Its just how the Giants structured the contract. This year may seem high, but his total deal is fair and in the ball park of other players in his class.

I already explaioned 5 times why hes a lock. There is no doubt hes a Giant next year.

""Herzlich didn't bat an eye the whole camp," Giants coach Tom Coughlin said Saturday. "Physically, he did everything you asked and more. I saw him improve literally week by week. He can play multiple positions. He's very smart. He does an outstanding job on special teams. He's told one time and he goes and does it. He deserves it.""

You don't get quotes like that from Coughlin then have the guy contribute on special teams and defense in his rookie year as an undrafted FA and then think he has a shot to be cut.

ABSOLUTE LOCK - don't kid urself

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 05:02 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


ur slipping...first, burfect wont go 1rst round, i'd wager anything on that. MAYBE a 2nd round pick but I think 3-UDFA could be possible for him.

and lofton didnt get franchised bc he isnt worth the franchise tag/cost...he's a 2 down lb. i could see him getting the same type deal as tulloch got this past offseason.

out of all the FA's, I'd put Lofton among the few we prob could afford. since we havent even contacted blackburn or goff from what i infer, reese could very well be targeting lofton, and drafting a lb to move behind lofton, herz/jones on the depth chart...

Burfict was just an example and you (as I) have no clue what Jerry Reese's draft board looks like.

I got a paypal account and will give u odds that there is zero shot he goes UFDA and even money that hes 2nd round at worst

Tulloch was a victim of the new CBA this year and wasn't heralded as the player Lofton is. We'll get a great example if your right about that anyway cuz Tulloch only signed a one year deal so hes a free agents as well and I think Tulloch will get a much bigger and better deal this year from someone and that will be the range Lofton will be in, not Tulloch's contract last year

I've read a couple of places that we're working on Goff and Coughlin expects him back next year.

No shot with the cap situation we're in, defensive philosophy we have, and the cost that Lofton will be that we'll be anywhere near him. Plus lets keep in mind we still have to possibly extend Cruz and Osi while dealing with Beatty, Kiwi, Phillips, and Nicks in freeagency in the next two years.


If you're serious about the bet I will take the even money on Burfict by the end of the 2nd.

I'd take that bet ... at least on Burfict not being a 2nd round pick.

I think he'll be drafted but past the 3rd round. Poor Combine and off the field issues and questionable on the field issues != high draft stock.

That and Al Davis is dead (although I do have to worry about Snyder and Jones .... hmmmm).

they said the same thing about that kid in New England last year, I can't think of his name....

I still think somebody is going to take a shot on him...

but i'll also give 3-1 on anybody saying he wont' get drafted

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 05:03 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history.

2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead.

2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead.

2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead.

2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no.

2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince.

Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.

we had a shot at MAuluga in the 2nd we could of made a move but went Sintim a few picks after instead. So maybe the Giants just didn't value him as much as the fans did.

Saftey was a bigger issue for us in 10

JPP Giants saw as a value pick.

We had cap issues last year and were planning on a healthy Goff...

but I agree - MAYBE we draft a LBer somewher ein the draft. Im also not discounting a first round pick if the value is there. I just deciphered this in another thread.

Figure we will have 8 LBers (including DeOssie).

The locks:
DeOssie
Boley
Kiwi
Herzlich
JWill
Greg Jones

We either go Goff or Blackburn, it seems the Giants want Goff.

That leaves one LBer spot open between Paysinger, Sintim, Tracy, or a draft pick





Greg Jones is not a lock to make the 2012 final roster. Neither is Herzlich.

Herzlich is an absolute lock. He played good when he got his shot this year, he just got hurt the same day. He also can play all 3 LB spots and he plays great special teams..

Herz is a lock

I'd give Jones the benefit of the doubt and say that he most likely makes the team


No recent post-3rd round draft pick or light-weight contract is a lock. Phillip Dillard can tell you this.

I *think* Herzlich has a good shot to be on the final roster in 2012 ... but not a lock.

I'd actually be surprised if Jones is on the final roster. He just doesn't cut it at the NFL level imo. His only tenuous hold is that he's been marginally good on ST.

Phillip Dillard sucked

Herzlich is a guy that is coachable, plays ST very well, and can play all 3 LB positions. No shot hes gone... i'm laying odds on that too

Kruunch
03-02-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm wondering, and there's a bit of a stretch in terms of reading between the lines, but.....

Giants are not talking to Blackburn.

Falcons franchise grimes over lofton.

Could the giants be preparing to make a run at lofton and not pursuing Chase initially because they'd rather a lofton/goff depth chart over a Goff/blackburn depth chart? (obviously with Goff as a FA you could replace his name with Jones or Herz)

Just where my mind went after reading some of today news.

lol do u have any clue what Loftons contract is going to be

don't do it to yourself - not shot we get Lofton


ur slipping...first, burfect wont go 1rst round, i'd wager anything on that. MAYBE a 2nd round pick but I think 3-UDFA could be possible for him.

and lofton didnt get franchised bc he isnt worth the franchise tag/cost...he's a 2 down lb. i could see him getting the same type deal as tulloch got this past offseason.

out of all the FA's, I'd put Lofton among the few we prob could afford. since we havent even contacted blackburn or goff from what i infer, reese could very well be targeting lofton, and drafting a lb to move behind lofton, herz/jones on the depth chart...

Burfict was just an example and you (as I) have no clue what Jerry Reese's draft board looks like.

I got a paypal account and will give u* odds that there is zero shot he goes UFDA and even money that hes 2nd round at worst

Tulloch was a victim of the new CBA this year and wasn't heralded as the player Lofton is. We'll get a great example if your right about that anyway cuz Tulloch only signed a one year deal so hes a free agents as well and I think Tulloch will get a much bigger and better deal this year from someone and that will be the range Lofton will be in, not Tulloch's contract last year

I've read a couple of places that we're working on Goff and Coughlin expects him back next year.

No shot with the cap situation we're in, defensive philosophy we have, and the cost that Lofton will be that we'll be anywhere near him.* Plus lets keep in mind we still have to possibly extend Cruz and Osi while dealing with Beatty, Kiwi, Phillips, and Nicks in freeagency in the next two years.


If you're serious about the bet I will take the even money on Burfict by the end of the 2nd.

I'd take that bet ... at least on Burfict not being a 2nd round pick.

I think he'll be drafted but past the 3rd round. Poor Combine and off the field issues and questionable on the field issues != high draft stock.

That and Al Davis is dead (although I do have to worry about Snyder and Jones .... hmmmm).

they said the same thing about that kid in New England last year, I can't think of his name....

I still think somebody is going to take a shot on him...

but i'll also give 3-1 on anybody saying he wont' get drafted




Oh yeah he'll definitely get drafted but I highly doubt he goes in the 2nd ... would be a huge reach if he does.

Like I said about Herzlich, I think he'll be on the team in 2012 too ... but I don't consider him a "lock". If he has a really poor camp I could see the Giants taking a flyer on him (but I don't expect this to happen).

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 05:10 PM
I consider it a lock

I think even with a bad capm they'd hang on to him

But also, it doesn't seem like he could have a bad camp

TheEnigma
03-02-2012, 05:11 PM
Burfict getting drafted in the first 2 rounds?

http://www.protias.com/Pictures/WTF/dr%20who%20-%20what.gif

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 05:18 PM
i'll take it...

he was projected first, has the skill set... not everybody gets sold - it only takes 1

Voldamort
03-02-2012, 05:21 PM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.
ME TOO!

Kruunch
03-02-2012, 05:23 PM
i'll take it...

he was projected first, has the skill set... not everybody gets sold - it only takes 1


You're on your own with that one MMB.

Burfict is currently hovering between the 3rd and 4th round on draft boards and falling rapidly.

From a personal standpoint, I wouldn't take him as a UFA who paid us to try out. Kids' lousy and will never translate at the NFL level.

MattMeyerBud
03-02-2012, 05:24 PM
i'll take it...

he was projected first, has the skill set... not everybody gets sold - it only takes 1


You're on your own with that one MMB.

Burfict is currently hovering between the 3rd and 4th round on draft boards and falling rapidly.

From a personal standpoint, I wouldn't take him as a UFA who paid us to try out. Kids' lousy and will never translate at the NFL level.

I dunno we'llll seeeeee

TheEnigma
03-02-2012, 05:38 PM
i'll take it...

he was projected first, has the skill set... not everybody gets sold - it only takes 1
You did see that he ran over 5.0 in the 40 at his combine, right?

Not to mention that he's lousy in coverage and a big headache with his on the field issues.

jhamburg
03-02-2012, 05:40 PM
i'll take it...

he was projected first, has the skill set... not everybody gets sold - it only takes 1
You did see that he ran over 5.0 in the 40 at his combine, right?

Not to mention that he's lousy in coverage and a big headache with his on the field issues.

shhhhhhh......

TheEnigma
03-02-2012, 05:45 PM
i'll take it...

he was projected first, has the skill set... not everybody gets sold - it only takes 1
You did see that he ran over 5.0 in the 40 at his combine, right?

Not to mention that he's lousy in coverage and a big headache with his on the field issues.

shhhhhhh......Lol. You know that you are robbing him in this bet. Just figured I'd warn him before hand :P

nhpgiantsfan
03-02-2012, 07:38 PM
Man, Herz played good on defense??? I must've missed that. He played in two games and made a few tackles. And by the way he only played because we were decimated with injuries at LB.
He was the third best rookie linebacker on the team. What if we draft a LB or sign one through free agency. He is def not a lock, but that's not a knock on him. There are plenty of NFL players a lot better than him that aren't locks on their teams.

JJC7301
03-02-2012, 09:41 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history.

2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead.

2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead.

2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead.

2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no.

2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince.

Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.
And take notice: Nicks, Rolle, and JPP are better than the LB's that we passed on (and I had wanted Maualuga that year). It'll take time to judge Ayers vs. Prince.

And we will pass on a LB this year as well. I used to want LB's, but I'm satisfied with our corp now.

NYG216
03-05-2012, 02:43 PM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl<u><font size="6">s</font></u> with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.


fixed it for ya


I thought about putting on the "S" but I think antonio pierce and kawika mitchell were both average linebackers.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 02:50 PM
i'll take it...

he was projected first, has the skill set... not everybody gets sold - it only takes 1
You did see that he ran over 5.0 in the 40 at his combine, right?

Not to mention that he's lousy in coverage and a big headache with his on the field issues.

i hadn't heard about it when we first talked about it, but then looked it up mid convo. I still like it, reminds me of the Spikes story from the previous year. I could see Balt taking him late second

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 02:51 PM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl<u><font size="6">s</font></u> with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.


fixed it for ya


I thought about putting on the "S" but I think antonio pierce and kawika mitchell were both average linebackers.


even if they were, the other LBer was Reggie Torbor who was below average... so that would mean the core combined was below average

I would even say that Boley is above average and Kiwi is average

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 02:52 PM
Just stating facts...look at the history.

2009 people want us to draft Maualuga, we draft Nicks instead.

2010 people want us to pick up Dansby in FA, we get Rolle instead.

2010 draft people want us to take 'Spoon, we take JPP instead.

2011 people want us to look at Ruud, Tulloch, Poz...No, no, and no.

2011 draft people want Ayers...we take Prince.

Face it, for better or worse LB is a stepchild to this front office. Given the choice we will upgrade another position first every time.
And take notice: Nicks, Rolle, and JPP are better than the LB's that we passed on (and I had wanted Maualuga that year). It'll take time to judge Ayers vs. Prince.

And we will pass on a LB this year as well. I used to want LB's, but I'm satisfied with our corp now.

absolutely...

and not to mention we could of made a move for Mualuga when he dropped in the second, we didn't and went Sintim instead

jhamburg
03-05-2012, 02:53 PM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl<u><font size="6">s</font></u> with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.


fixed it for ya


I thought about putting on the "S" but I think antonio pierce and kawika mitchell were both average linebackers.


I think Boley is one of the best 4-3 OLBs in the league, Kiwi is outstanding against the run and blitzing, and JWill was one of the best rookie LBs in the league last year. Face it, people doubt him because he was a 6th round pick, if he was a 2nd rounder everyone would be so psyched about him right now.

I'll agree that for the MLB spot there isn't anyone to be that excited about, but we have only 2 LBs on the field more often than not anyway. And between Goff and the other rookies, I'm confident that one of them will pan out to be a major contributor. That would give us 4 solid LBs, more than enough for a team that runs a nickle D most of the time.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 02:56 PM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl<u><font size="6">s</font></u> with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.


fixed it for ya


I thought about putting on the "S" but I think antonio pierce and kawika mitchell were both average linebackers.


I think Boley is one of the best 4-3 OLBs in the league, Kiwi is outstanding against the run and blitzing, and JWill was one of the best rookie LBs in the league last year. Face it, people doubt him because he was a 6th round pick, if he was a 2nd rounder everyone would be so psyched about him right now.

I'll agree that for the MLB spot there isn't anyone to be that excited about, but we have only 2 LBs on the field more often than not anyway. And between Goff and the other rookies, I'm confident that one of them will pan out to be a major contributor. That would give us 4 solid LBs, more than enough for a team that runs a nickle D most of the time.

I think I actually like that we have a platoon of guys though

i mean if u play a team like Green Bay u want a JWill out there, but if u play a team like San Fran you more of a greg jones type...

I dunno i think it actually is a positive. Plus they were all late to undrafted rookies, lets see how the yprogress with a few years under their belts. I dont know how anybody isn't amped for JWill

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 02:57 PM
Man, Herz played good on defense??? I must've missed that. He played in two games and made a few tackles. And by the way he only played because we were decimated with injuries at LB.
He was the third best rookie linebacker on the team. What if we draft a LB or sign one through free agency. He is def not a lock, but that's not a knock on him. There are plenty of NFL players a lot better than him that aren't locks on their teams.

third? Besides JWill who else

Herzlich is lock city. Like i said my money is where my mouth is

jhamburg
03-05-2012, 03:14 PM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl<u><font size="6">s</font></u> with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.


fixed it for ya


I thought about putting on the "S" but I think antonio pierce and kawika mitchell were both average linebackers.


I think Boley is one of the best 4-3 OLBs in the league, Kiwi is outstanding against the run and blitzing, and JWill was one of the best rookie LBs in the league last year. Face it, people doubt him because he was a 6th round pick, if he was a 2nd rounder everyone would be so psyched about him right now.

I'll agree that for the MLB spot there isn't anyone to be that excited about, but we have only 2 LBs on the field more often than not anyway. And between Goff and the other rookies, I'm confident that one of them will pan out to be a major contributor. That would give us 4 solid LBs, more than enough for a team that runs a nickle D most of the time.

I think I actually like that we have a platoon of guys though

i mean if u play a team like Green Bay u want a JWill out there, but if u play a team like San Fran you more of a greg jones type...

I dunno i think it actually is a positive. Plus they were all late to undrafted rookies, lets see how the yprogress with a few years under their belts. I dont know how anybody isn't amped for JWill


Yeah I think a lot of people here get obsessive about filling out all of the starter slots on our base 4-3 D. But that doesn't really make practical sense in terms of how our defense is actually run.

NYG216
03-07-2012, 08:04 AM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl<u><font size="6">s</font></u> with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.


fixed it for ya


I thought about putting on the "S" but I think antonio pierce and kawika mitchell were both average linebackers.


I think Boley is one of the best 4-3 OLBs in the league, Kiwi is outstanding against the run and blitzing, and JWill was one of the best rookie LBs in the league last year. Face it, people doubt him because he was a 6th round pick, if he was a 2nd rounder everyone would be so psyched about him right now.

I'll agree that for the MLB spot there isn't anyone to be that excited about, but we have only 2 LBs on the field more often than not anyway. And between Goff and the other rookies, I'm confident that one of them will pan out to be a major contributor. That would give us 4 solid LBs, more than enough for a team that runs a nickle D most of the time.

I think Boley came on strong down the stretch, but I don't think he is that far above average. Kiwi is great in those situations but not so much against the pass. Don't get me wrong, I think they are fine (obviously) for what we ask them do to... but it sure would be nice to get a playmaker at that position.

TrueBlue@NYC
03-07-2012, 11:34 AM
I've wanted a LB for many years, but hey, we won the super bowl<U><FONT size=6>s</FONT></U> with sub par linebackers, so I trust Reese.


fixed it for ya


I thought about putting on the "S" but I think antonio pierce and kawika mitchell were both average linebackers.
I think Boley is one of the best 4-3 OLBs in the league, Kiwi is outstanding against the run and blitzing, and JWill was one of the best rookie LBs in the league last year. Face it, people doubt him because he was a 6th round pick, if he was a 2nd rounder everyone would be so psyched about him right now. I'll agree that for the MLB spot there isn't anyone to be that excited about, but we have only 2 LBs on the field more often than not anyway. And between Goff and the other rookies, I'm confident that one of them will pan out to be a major contributor. That would give us 4 solid LBs, more than enough for a team that runs a nickle D most of the time.

I think I actually like that we have a platoon of guys though

i mean if u play a team like Green Bay u want a JWill out there, but if u play a team like San Fran you more of a greg jones type...

I dunno i think it actually is a positive. Plus they were all late to undrafted rookies, lets see how the yprogress with a few years under their belts. I dont know how anybody isn't amped for JWill
Yeah I think a lot of people here get obsessive about filling out all of the starter slots on our base 4-3 D. But that doesn't really make practical sense in terms of how our defense is actually run.</P>


Yep, especially nowadays with all the sub packages the defense runs, we're in our base 4-3 less and less. The 4-3 playmaking LBers are a dying breed. The days of Derrick Brooks, Jessie Armestead, Keith Brookings are over.</P>


NFL.com tried to do a top 10 4-3 OLB listing after last season and they could barely fill it out. Heck, they had to put in MLB's like Beason who MIGHT get moved to OLB b/c they could fill out the talent. </P>


With Boley and JWill as out nickle and dime LBers, the MLB spot for us is really only a two down position. </P>

G-Man67
03-07-2012, 01:04 PM
i'm not disappointed that we passed on LBs to draft Nicks and JPP</P>


in fact, i think Kiwi and Boley are pretty good ... i'd call them big names</P>


and we will have a great competition for the other LB position ... Goff was looking decent before his injury ... Blackburn might be in the mix and we may very well pick up a FA and we will draft at least one LB somewhere</P>

myles2424
03-07-2012, 06:30 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,&amp; Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
03-07-2012, 09:09 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

he completely improved from 09 to 2010. He was suppose to breakout this year, but tore his ACL.

Your not even giving him a chance. If we could do it with blackburn im sure we could do it wiht Goff

lawl
03-07-2012, 09:32 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

2nd round picks aren't meant for "competition at our depth". Especially, at a low valued position like linebacker.

MattMeyerBud
03-07-2012, 09:47 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

2nd round picks aren't meant for "competition at our depth". Especially, at a low valued position like linebacker.

well low valued ina 4-3

lawl
03-07-2012, 09:50 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

2nd round picks aren't meant for "competition at our depth". Especially, at a low valued position like linebacker.

well low valued ina 4-3
Yup

TheEnigma
03-07-2012, 09:52 PM
Even lower valued in Fewell's system. He's always been a big secondary guy.

giantsfan420
03-07-2012, 10:01 PM
well hightower is supposed to be a high 2nd round guy.

we could trade our 1rst with a team picking early in the 2nd and gain a 3rd. that would give us two 2nds and we could draft hightower who could be a mlb as well as olb.
then we could try and package our other 2nd and the additional 3rd to pick right after and get whichever of fleener/allen is available and solve the te spot as well with the FA signing of Bennett.

I dont even think we need to address the lb position tho. goff/jones/herz should be able to work out at MLB. we're set at OLB.

realistically i think we really only need to address wr and te thru the draft or fa.

in my perfect world, we re-sign smith, leaving te as the only position we really need to address. from their, its BPA and every position is possible.

boley proved his worth, but he is getting up there in age. but we have jwill behind him and he will be the future at our OLB spot. kiwi should be our other olb for years.

our d doesn't need a huge impact mlb, just a solid run stopper. if the bpa is a seriously talented mlb, heck yea draft him bc its the bpa. but i think our roster is way more complete than most people realize...

jhamburg
03-07-2012, 10:14 PM
well hightower is supposed to be a high 2nd round guy.

we could trade our 1rst with a team picking early in the 2nd and gain a 3rd. that would give us two 2nds and we could draft hightower who could be a mlb as well as olb.
then we could try and package our other 2nd and the additional 3rd to pick right after and get whichever of fleener/allen is available and solve the te spot as well with the FA signing of Bennett.

I dont even think we need to address the lb position tho. goff/jones/herz should be able to work out at MLB. we're set at OLB.

realistically i think we really only need to address wr and te thru the draft or fa.

in my perfect world, we re-sign smith, leaving te as the only position we really need to address. from their, its BPA and every position is possible.

boley proved his worth, but he is getting up there in age. but we have jwill behind him and he will be the future at our OLB spot. kiwi should be our other olb for years.

our d doesn't need a huge impact mlb, just a solid run stopper. if the bpa is a seriously talented mlb, heck yea draft him bc its the bpa. but i think our roster is way more complete than most people realize...

I think Hightower would be a mistake for us. IF we're going to draft an LB in the first two rounds, we need an every down guy. I don't see how Hightower can be that in our defense.

lawl
03-07-2012, 10:15 PM
well hightower is supposed to be a high 2nd round guy.

we could trade our 1rst with a team picking early in the 2nd and gain a 3rd. that would give us two 2nds and we could draft hightower who could be a mlb as well as olb.
then we could try and package our other 2nd and the additional 3rd to pick right after and get whichever of fleener/allen is available and solve the te spot as well with the FA signing of Bennett.

I dont even think we need to address the lb position tho. goff/jones/herz should be able to work out at MLB. we're set at OLB.

realistically i think we really only need to address wr and te thru the draft or fa.

in my perfect world, we re-sign smith, leaving te as the only position we really need to address. from their, its BPA and every position is possible.

boley proved his worth, but he is getting up there in age. but we have jwill behind him and he will be the future at our OLB spot. kiwi should be our other olb for years.

our d doesn't need a huge impact mlb, just a solid run stopper. if the bpa is a seriously talented mlb, heck yea draft him bc its the bpa. but i think our roster is way more complete than most people realize...

We have no right tackle and need to add corners

giantsfan420
03-07-2012, 10:40 PM
well hightower is supposed to be a high 2nd round guy.

we could trade our 1rst with a team picking early in the 2nd and gain a 3rd. that would give us two 2nds and we could draft hightower who could be a mlb as well as olb.
then we could try and package our other 2nd and the additional 3rd to pick right after and get whichever of fleener/allen is available and solve the te spot as well with the FA signing of Bennett.

I dont even think we need to address the lb position tho. goff/jones/herz should be able to work out at MLB. we're set at OLB.

realistically i think we really only need to address wr and te thru the draft or fa.

in my perfect world, we re-sign smith, leaving te as the only position we really need to address. from their, its BPA and every position is possible.

boley proved his worth, but he is getting up there in age. but we have jwill behind him and he will be the future at our OLB spot. kiwi should be our other olb for years.

our d doesn't need a huge impact mlb, just a solid run stopper. if the bpa is a seriously talented mlb, heck yea draft him bc its the bpa. but i think our roster is way more complete than most people realize...

We have no right tackle and need to add corners

we have brewer. and as far as corners, we have several free agents of our own we could sign for relatively nothing. i believe we have the starters on our roster already in prince and webster...

and we could add depth thru the draft. again, i dont think we need to add to the team thru FA for any position besides WR and TE. maybe an OL for depth, possibly for RT starter, but dont believe its a necessary.
just my opinion tho

myles2424
03-07-2012, 10:49 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

2nd round picks aren't meant for "competition at our depth". Especially, at a low valued position like linebacker. LB has become a low value position because majority of teams already have their MLB atleast set in stone......we still have one of the weakest lb corps in leauge....anyone that think any less is a homer......
Also, I obviously didn't mean to say draft a LB 2nd-4th just for depth.....as a rookie yes...
isn't kiwi a FA again after this season? I highly doubt he's going to want to finish his career as a SLB, he's going to want to be & be paid like a pass rusher,if that's with us or not.....goff is barely average......our depth,we have no clue what were getting with these guys......

jhamburg
03-07-2012, 11:09 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

2nd round picks aren't meant for "competition at our depth". Especially, at a low valued position like linebacker. LB has become a low value position because majority of teams already have their MLB atleast set in stone......we still have one of the weakest lb corps in leauge....anyone that think any less is a homer

23 1st round picks spent on non pass rushing LBs in the last 10 years, you can't deny that it's considered a low value position by NFL GMs.

Compare that to 35 DTs, 40 CBs, etc....

myles2424
03-07-2012, 11:15 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

2nd round picks aren't meant for "competition at our depth". Especially, at a low valued position like linebacker. LB has become a low value position because majority of teams already have their MLB atleast set in stone......we still have one of the weakest lb corps in leauge....anyone that think any less is a homer

23 1st round picks spent on non pass rushing LBs in the last 10 years, you can't deny that it's considered a low value position by NFL GMs.

Compare that to 35 DTs, 40 CBs, etc.... you can make this argument about WLB & SLB.......but the MLB is supposed to be the captain of the D.....there's no way goff isnt one of the worst in the league.....%90 of teams have a MLB that we'd trade Goff for in a heartbeat.....

myles2424
03-07-2012, 11:17 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

he completely improved from 09 to 2010. He was suppose to breakout this year, but tore his ACL.

Your not even giving him a chance. If we could do it with blackburn im sure we could do it wiht Goffisn't this goffs 5 year in the league? Exactly how long are we supposed to wait? Like it or not, on majority of NFL teams goff is a backup.....

giantsfan420
03-07-2012, 11:22 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

he completely improved from 09 to 2010. He was suppose to breakout this year, but tore his ACL.

Your not even giving him a chance. If we could do it with blackburn im sure we could do it wiht Goffisn't this goffs 5 year in the league? Exactly how long are we supposed to wait? Like it or not, on majority of NFL teams goff is a backup.....

huh? goff was a top 5 mlb in stops and tfl in 2010...ur way off base about goff. he struggled in pass coverage but the majority of mlb's do now, which is why we have a few lb's especially for pass defense

jhamburg
03-07-2012, 11:32 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

2nd round picks aren't meant for "competition at our depth". Especially, at a low valued position like linebacker. LB has become a low value position because majority of teams already have their MLB atleast set in stone......we still have one of the weakest lb corps in leauge....anyone that think any less is a homer

23 1st round picks spent on non pass rushing LBs in the last 10 years, you can't deny that it's considered a low value position by NFL GMs.

Compare that to 35 DTs, 40 CBs, etc.... you can make this argument about WLB & SLB.......but the MLB is supposed to be the captain of the D.....there's no way goff isnt one of the worst in the league.....%90 of teams have a MLB that we'd trade Goff for in a heartbeat.....

MLB is not valued as high as you think it is. MLBs are not paid nearly as much as pass rushers, corners, tackles, WRs, etc. The highest paid MLB in the league has a $50 million dollar deal, every position on defense other than safety is higher than that.

TheEnigma
03-07-2012, 11:37 PM
What's a MLB? I could of swore we don't use one of those in our 4-2-5 defense.

myles2424
03-07-2012, 11:38 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

he completely improved from 09 to 2010. He was suppose to breakout this year, but tore his ACL.

Your not even giving him a chance. If we could do it with blackburn im sure we could do it wiht Goffisn't this goffs 5 year in the league? Exactly how long are we supposed to wait? Like it or not, on majority of NFL teams goff is a backup.....

huh? goff was a top 5 mlb in stops and tfl in 2010...ur way off base about goff. he struggled in pass coverage but the majority of mlb's do now, which is why we have a few lb's especially for pass defense top 5 in stops? What do you mean by that.....I know he wasn't top 5 in TFL....
We can dig up random stats all day for every player to make ourselves feel better.....
But goff, even though it was the best year of his career, was a non factor......he sucked in coverage....disappeared for games.....then had a few games with a few nicely blown up running plays & everyone decided he was great....
Some fans are very easily satisfied.....
Like those that were waiting for Moss & wilkison to breakout just because of solid preseasons...
Those that still make arguments for sintim,beckum,barden.....

And to everyone that argues Lbs aren't important on our D, you sound nuts......unless they totally take Lbs off the field completely & we have a secondary full of DBs,then they are very important....

giantsfan420
03-07-2012, 11:45 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

he completely improved from 09 to 2010. He was suppose to breakout this year, but tore his ACL.

Your not even giving him a chance. If we could do it with blackburn im sure we could do it wiht Goffisn't this goffs 5 year in the league? Exactly how long are we supposed to wait? Like it or not, on majority of NFL teams goff is a backup.....

huh? goff was a top 5 mlb in stops and tfl in 2010...ur way off base about goff. he struggled in pass coverage but the majority of mlb's do now, which is why we have a few lb's especially for pass defense top 5 in stops? What do you mean by that.....I know he wasn't top 5 in TFL....
We can dig up random stats all day for every player to make ourselves feel better.....
But goff, even though it was the best year of his career, was a non factor......he sucked in coverage....disappeared for games.....then had a few games with a few nicely blown up running plays & everyone decided he was great....
Some fans are very easily satisfied.....
Like those that were waiting for Moss & wilkison to breakout just because of solid preseasons...
Those that still make arguments for sintim,beckum,barden.....

And to everyone that argues Lbs aren't important on our D, you sound nuts......unless they totally take Lbs off the field completely & we have a secondary full of DBs,then they are very important....

go ahead and name the mlb's who are good in pass coverage...urlacher, beason, willis...then it drops off dramatically. mlb's are used primarily for run defense, goff is an above avg run defender. yes he struggles in pass coverage, but thats why fewell implores the 4-2-5 coverage with boley and jwill. olb's now are needed to be able to drop off into pass coverage.

could we upgrade and get a better mlb? absolutely. is it necessary? i dont think so. its subjective anyways, i cant fault u for wanting to improve at mlb. but the way i see it, if we were to try and get a complete mlb, we'd have to lose strength at another position to afford one thru FA bc those complete mlb's are worth way more, which is why teams generally dont even allow the ones that can do both run and play the pass to leave.

when our dl was healthy and playing up to their potential, our lb core was more than sufficient...

myles2424
03-07-2012, 11:59 PM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</P>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,& Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</P>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</P>


*</P>

he completely improved from 09 to 2010. He was suppose to breakout this year, but tore his ACL.

Your not even giving him a chance. If we could do it with blackburn im sure we could do it wiht Goffisn't this goffs 5 year in the league? Exactly how long are we supposed to wait? Like it or not, on majority of NFL teams goff is a backup.....

huh? goff was a top 5 mlb in stops and tfl in 2010...ur way off base about goff. he struggled in pass coverage but the majority of mlb's do now, which is why we have a few lb's especially for pass defense top 5 in stops? What do you mean by that.....I know he wasn't top 5 in TFL....
We can dig up random stats all day for every player to make ourselves feel better.....
But goff, even though it was the best year of his career, was a non factor......he sucked in coverage....disappeared for games.....then had a few games with a few nicely blown up running plays & everyone decided he was great....
Some fans are very easily satisfied.....
Like those that were waiting for Moss & wilkison to breakout just because of solid preseasons...
Those that still make arguments for sintim,beckum,barden.....

And to everyone that argues Lbs aren't important on our D, you sound nuts......unless they totally take Lbs off the field completely & we have a secondary full of DBs,then they are very important....

go ahead and name the mlb's who are good in pass coverage...urlacher, beason, willis...then it drops off dramatically. mlb's are used primarily for run defense, goff is an above avg run defender. yes he struggles in pass coverage, but thats why fewell implores the 4-2-5 coverage with boley and jwill. olb's now are needed to be able to drop off into pass coverage.

could we upgrade and get a better mlb? absolutely. is it necessary? i dont think so. its subjective anyways, i cant fault u for wanting to improve at mlb. but the way i see it, if we were to try and get a complete mlb, we'd have to lose strength at another position to afford one thru FA bc those complete mlb's are worth way more, which is why teams generally dont even allow the ones that can do both run and play the pass to leave.

when our dl was healthy and playing up to their potential, our lb core was more than sufficient... yes our Lbs were sufficient......my whole point is, our depth as a whole have only played a few snaps combined....Goff, is not the caliber MLB that when you mention drafting and creating competition some act like they're offended for even bringing that up...
Kiwi,great season...but as you said our OLbs are now needed to drop into coverage......also, what a great guy he is to Slide back to OLB after the start he got off to in 2010 pre-injury, knowing that he's soon to become a FA again & that his value drops significantly......He's a FA again after this season, if we can't keep & pay him like a pass rusher,then he'll get it somewhere else.....and he won't be seeing anymore $$ than he is now to stay & play SLB....

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 09:45 AM
Regardless, we need competition at our Depth....</p>


Goff isnt that caliber LB that we just assume were ok with...Remember he was "supposed" to break out, not yet done....Sintim is gone....Paysinger,Jones,&amp; Herz, who knows how thatll work out....Realisticly one of them may pan out.......</p>


I think another OLB for SLB depth somewhere 2nd-4th is a must......Nigel Bradham,Danny Trevathan,Bobby Wagner,Keenan Robinson,Tank Carder all fall into that category..</p>


</p>

he completely improved from 09 to 2010. He was suppose to breakout this year, but tore his ACL.

Your not even giving him a chance. If we could do it with blackburn im sure we could do it wiht Goffisn't this goffs 5 year in the league? Exactly how long are we supposed to wait? Like it or not, on majority of NFL teams goff is a backup.....

This year will be his 5th year in the league.

He was behind Pierce, who was our defensive general for his first year and 3/4.

He didn't do that well for the 4 games he played in 09, came back and had a very improved and well played 2010 (especially vs the run), and then ACL'd in 2011

essentially he played less than a year and a half and showed he could be the starter for us. We're going to attempt to sign him again - so evidently we are trying to "wait" a few years longer