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MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 01:52 PM
In a year where most of us would like to extend Cruz to get him as cheap as possible, because it will probably be what Nicks will base what he wants off of - we had a bad start....

Stevie Johnson is the first FA (or was about to be a FA) WR to get a deal. 36 mil over 5 years, 20 guaranteed, and its front loaded.

This is going to set the presedence for WRs for the rest of FA and probably effect Cruz.

This is no bueno

TuckYou
03-05-2012, 02:03 PM
Better start saving now.

jhamburg
03-05-2012, 02:07 PM
But we need to sign Mario Williams and Carl Nicks!

/red

giantsfan420
03-05-2012, 02:08 PM
cruz has already displayed a good team attitude, saying he isnt demanding a new contract right now.

as good as he was, he is still our #2 wr. S.Johnson is a #1 wr.

I imagine Cruz would be STOKED with a 5 year deal worth 20-25 mil which for his production is a bargain...i don't see him demanding to be the highest paid wr or top 5 or anything, just payed fairly...not worried too much about it as I'm sure both Nicks and Cruz know that having each other is paramount to their sustainable success...

burier
03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 02:15 PM
cruz has already displayed a good team attitude, saying he isnt demanding a new contract right now.

as good as he was, he is still our #2 wr. S.Johnson is a #1 wr.

I imagine Cruz would be STOKED with a 5 year deal worth 20-25 mil which for his production is a bargain...i don't see him demanding to be the highest paid wr or top 5 or anything, just payed fairly...not worried too much about it as I'm sure both Nicks and Cruz know that having each other is paramount to their sustainable success...

Cruz is a #2 here, but his talent is #1...

the longer we wait, the worse it will be for us. He will cost more next year than he does this year.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 02:17 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other

burier
03-05-2012, 02:25 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if* u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

ny06
03-05-2012, 02:37 PM
The main concern for me is Nicks. </P>


Everyone else is secondary. </P>


Cruz deserves a pay raise, but he is still under contract. </P>


I don't see the Giants doing anything this off-season is regards to Cruz. If he plays well next year I see the Giants giving him a fair pay raise before the season ends. </P>


</P>

nygsb42champs
03-05-2012, 02:38 PM
That is alot of money for him. That is going to set the market very high. I agree that is not good news for us.

Kruunch
03-05-2012, 02:40 PM
In a year where most of us would like to extend Cruz to get him as cheap as possible, because it will probably be what Nicks will base what he wants off of - we had a bad start....

Stevie Johnson is the first FA (or was about to be a FA) WR to get a deal. 36 mil over 5 years, 20 guaranteed, and its front loaded.

This is going to set the presedence for WRs for the rest of FA and probably effect Cruz.

This is no bueno


I believe there is something to do with re-signing players who are under the 4 year vet term (which Cruz would be NEXT year when nis contract is up).

Chances are you will see the Giants extend him 2 years with a pay raise.

After that, if Cruz maintains his numbers, will be a HUGE pay day for him (and probably not one we'll be able to match).

P.S. - I wouldn't call that a "bad" start to WR contracts. That's about what Steve Johnson is worth. Not elite money, but solid #1 money.

buddy33
03-05-2012, 03:07 PM
Cruz is under contract and he is not going to hold out.

Nicks will have to be taken care of before he is.

Yes, it's a problem, but Reese will just have to draft another tagged for Eli to throw to. It's the way of the NFL.

Eli TO Shockey
03-05-2012, 03:10 PM
i have a good feeling cruz and nicks will be giants for a long, long time.

TuckYou
03-05-2012, 03:20 PM
Amnd some of you guys thought we could keep Manningham, lol. </P>


Cruz and Nicks are our priorities, along with JPP. Lock these guys up to stay in Blue for life. Great guys on and off the field.</P>

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 03:27 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 03:28 PM
i have a good feeling cruz and nicks will be giants for a long, long time.


you probably said the same thing about Steve Smith

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 03:32 PM
In a year where most of us would like to extend Cruz to get him as cheap as possible, because it will probably be what Nicks will base what he wants off of - we had a bad start....

Stevie Johnson is the first FA (or was about to be a FA) WR to get a deal. 36 mil over 5 years, 20 guaranteed, and its front loaded.

This is going to set the presedence for WRs for the rest of FA and probably effect Cruz.

This is no bueno


I believe there is something to do with re-signing players who are under the 4 year vet term (which Cruz would be NEXT year when nis contract is up).

Chances are you will see the Giants extend him 2 years with a pay raise.

After that, if Cruz maintains his numbers, will be a HUGE pay day for him (and probably not one we'll be able to match).

P.S. - I wouldn't call that a "bad" start to WR contracts. That's about what Steve Johnson is worth. Not elite money, but solid #1 money.

i dunno thats alot of guaranteed money... its just not a good sign... would have to figure Cruz in that ball park... then on top of that you have to figure Nicks is going to want more

FourthAndOne
03-05-2012, 03:42 PM
Cruz will be a restricted FA in 2013. I really hope Cruz stays a Giant. But at the very least, the Giants can place a 1st round tender and be able to either match another team's offer or get a first.

Edit: Like Mike Wallace - it'll be interesting to see if anything happens there.

burier
03-05-2012, 03:56 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


total guess. But no more of a guess than your Nicks is gonna let Cruz set his bar theory.

As far as what Cruz does in another year that would be the point is redoing his contract now. If we let him play out next season he'd become unaffordable with much greater leverage.

And of course that's the part I'm not guessing on.

All Cruz can do at this point is ask for a reasonable raise. If he gets carried away the Giants can tell him to screw because hes under contract.

He can hold out but while that's not ideal...he's not our number 1 reciever. We have very good top End reciever in Nicks and we have the best QB in the league that gives Cruz very little leverage and even in a hold out situation he's losing money in the way of fines and in the way of long term high end money by labeling himself a malcontent.

So the Giants will offer him a reasonable contract which he'll gladly accept and that will be that.

To simplify he's not in a position to demand Stevie Johnson Money despite being the better player of the two.

So Cruz's contract will be far inferior to anything Nicks is going to ask for regardless.

The scenario you're talking about will actually work out in the reverse where Cruz is going to want Nicks type money in a few years.

bklyn1028
03-05-2012, 04:00 PM
i have a good feeling cruz and nicks will be giants for a long, long time.


you probably said the same thing about Steve Smith


LOL

Eli TO Shockey
03-05-2012, 04:02 PM
i have a good feeling cruz and nicks will be giants for a long, long time.


you probably said the same thing about Steve Smith


Steve Smith will be a giant again soon. you will see.

http://meetthadealer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/New+York+Giants+v+Dallas+Cowboys+aholqpik43Rl.jpg

bklyn1028
03-05-2012, 04:03 PM
I think Cruz should be taken care of this coming year because of how he played last year:

Couple tickets to any amusement park he wants, I mean anywhere, and a free complimentary bottle of champagne at any motel in the Poconos.

Other than that, he has a contract....

On the serious side, I'm sure they're tellin him to duplicate this coming year with last year, and he'll home free. Just duplicate, show it wasn't a fluke. Jacobs on the other hand, as much as I like him, hasn't been close to duplicating 2007 in the slightest.

burier
03-05-2012, 04:05 PM
i have a good feeling cruz and nicks will be giants for a long, long time.


you probably said the same thing about Steve Smith


Steve Smith will be a giant again soon. you will see.

http://meetthadealer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/New+York+Giants+v+Dallas+Cowboys+aholqpik43Rl.jpg


Steve Smith has the same chance of being a Giant as I have of being a Giant.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:06 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


total guess. But no more of a guess than your Nicks is gonna let Cruz set his bar theory.

As far as what Cruz does in another year that would be the point is redoing his contract now. If we let him play out next season he'd become unaffordable with much greater leverage.

And of course that's the part I'm not guessing on.

All Cruz can do at this point is ask for a reasonable raise. If he gets carried away the Giants can tell him to screw because hes under contract.

He can hold out but while that's not ideal...he's not our number 1 reciever. We have very good top End reciever in Nicks and we have the best QB in the league that gives Cruz very little leverage and even in a hold out situation he's losing money in the way of fines and in the way of long term high end money by labeling himself a malcontent.

So the Giants will offer him a reasonable contract which he'll gladly accept and that will be that.

To simplify he's not in a position to demand Stevie Johnson Money despite being the better player of the two.

So Cruz's contract will be far inferior to anything Nicks is going to ask for regardless.

The scenario you're talking about will actually work out in the reverse where Cruz is going to want Nicks type money in a few years.

actually I know that one for a fact. Nicks is waiting on Cruz's contract...

IF he doubles up a year he just had his price tag will be much more than it is now. Obviously we are all basing this on Cruz not being a fluke.

And thats the point, we want to get the reasonable raise and extension now.

Its like your agreeing with my point but somehow disagreeing. If Cruz has another year like he did he'll be MORE than Stevie Johnson.

How does locking Cruz up at a legit deal now, work in reverse? He'll have a contract where he got paid and you back end the deal. In a few years his contract would be up so what would be the difference?

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:06 PM
i have a good feeling cruz and nicks will be giants for a long, long time.


you probably said the same thing about Steve Smith


Steve Smith will be a giant again soon. you will see.

http://meetthadealer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/New+York+Giants+v+Dallas+Cowboys+aholqpik43Rl.jpg


Steve Smith has the same chance of being a Giant as I have of being a Giant.

i got a hundo on it :)

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:08 PM
Cruz will be a restricted FA in 2013. I really hope Cruz stays a Giant. But at the very least, the Giants can place a 1st round tender and be able to either match another team's offer or get a first.

Edit: Like Mike Wallace - it'll be interesting to see if anything happens there.

If thats the route you want to go, but he could also hold out if hes not being paid. And if you think hes going to play two back to back years at a high level and still be on the undrafted rookie FA contract your crazy.

Eli TO Shockey
03-05-2012, 04:08 PM
i have a good feeling cruz and nicks will be giants for a long, long time.


you probably said the same thing about Steve Smith


Steve Smith will be a giant again soon. you will see.

http://meetthadealer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/New+York+Giants+v+Dallas+Cowboys+aholqpik43Rl.jpg


Steve Smith has the same chance of being a Giant as I have of being a Giant.

i got a hundo on it :)



that he is or isnt?

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:10 PM
that he is

Eli TO Shockey
03-05-2012, 04:11 PM
that he is


smart man. i would take the same bet if someone had the cahones.

Kruunch
03-05-2012, 04:14 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if* u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth.* Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


That's what next year is all about for Cruz.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:16 PM
that he is


smart man. i would take the same bet if someone had the cahones.


check your PM

FourthAndOne
03-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Cruz will be a restricted FA in 2013. I really hope Cruz stays a Giant. But at the very least, the Giants can place a 1st round tender and be able to either match another team's offer or get a first.

Edit: Like Mike Wallace - it'll be interesting to see if anything happens there.

If thats the route you want to go, but he could also hold out if hes not being paid. And if you think hes going to play two back to back years at a high level and still be on the undrafted rookie FA contract your crazy.




I want the Giants to sign Cruz to a long term contract. He's worth much more than a first round pick, assuming this year wasn't a fluke. I'm just saying that if it can't be done, at the very least Cruz is a restricted FA after next year and the Giants can get compensation if he leaves.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:17 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


That's what next year is all about for Cruz.

which is why I don't want to wait anoither year before we try and hammer this out with him

Kruunch
03-05-2012, 04:19 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if* u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth.* Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


That's what next year is all about for Cruz.

which is why I don't want to wait anoither year before we try and hammer this out with him


Like I said, we probably give him a 2 year extension to get him past the vet minimum length required.

I doubt he'd sign for a longer term then that and if he did his agent should be shot (unless we just blew him away with a huge offer which I don't see us doing).

Expect him extended for 2 years @ 3-5mil a year (total guess based on nothing but the length of the term and the current CBA).

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:25 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last BOARDS (default.aspx)
year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


That's what next year is all about for Cruz.

which is why I don't want to wait anoither year before we try and hammer this out with him


Like I said, we probably give him a 2 year extension to get him past the vet minimum length required.

I doubt he'd sign for a longer term then that and if he did his agent should be shot (unless we just blew him away with a huge offer which I don't see us doing).

Expect him extended for 2 years @ 3-5mil a year (total guess based on nothing but the length of the term and the current CBA).

u think an extension on next year/ so he'll be a FA after 2014?

I think I could live with that

GameTime
03-05-2012, 04:29 PM
what ever they do for Cruz this season, if anything, they cant have him make more then what Nicks is making. Wouldn't be right or fair. I say a short extension and 200K less or so then Nicks is making.

burier
03-05-2012, 04:31 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


total guess. But no more of a guess than your Nicks is gonna let Cruz set his bar theory.

As far as what Cruz does in another year that would be the point is redoing his contract now. If we let him play out next season he'd become unaffordable with much greater leverage.

And of course that's the part I'm not guessing on.

All Cruz can do at this point is ask for a reasonable raise. If he gets carried away the Giants can tell him to screw because hes under contract.

He can hold out but while that's not ideal...he's not our number 1 reciever. We have very good top End reciever in Nicks and we have the best QB in the league that gives Cruz very little leverage and even in a hold out situation he's losing money in the way of fines and in the way of long term high end money by labeling himself a malcontent.

So the Giants will offer him a reasonable contract which he'll gladly accept and that will be that.

To simplify he's not in a position to demand Stevie Johnson Money despite being the better player of the two.

So Cruz's contract will be far inferior to anything Nicks is going to ask for regardless.

The scenario you're talking about will actually work out in the reverse where Cruz is going to want Nicks type money in a few years.

actually I know that one for a fact. Nicks is waiting on Cruz's contract...

IF he doubles up a year he just had his price tag will be much more than it is now. Obviously we are all basing this on Cruz not being a fluke.

And thats the point, we want to get the reasonable raise and extension now.*

Its like your agreeing with my point but somehow disagreeing. If Cruz has another year like he did he'll be MORE than Stevie Johnson.

How does locking Cruz up at a legit deal now, work in reverse?* He'll have a contract where he got paid and you back end the deal. In a few years his contract would be up so what would be the difference?


You're assuming or presuming that Cruz is going to get a bigtime contract and I think the Giants would be stupid to do that.

So its not like we're agreeing at all.

You just claimed that you knew for fact that Nicks was waiting on Cruz's contract to use as a guide which doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't make sense for 2 reasons.

1) Even if Cruz got a big deal it wouldn't be close to what Nicks will be looking for. Like I said Nicks will want to be paid as one of the very best top 5 WRs in the league when negotiation time comes.

2) Cruz isn't getting a big time deal right now so if Nicks is going to use that as a measuring stick he'd be selling himself very short.

So id say if you're connected to point where you know Nick's negotiation tactics you should give him a call and tell him to fire his agent pronto.

On the other hand there is no reason at all for us to give Cruz a "legit" deal right now.

Number 1 we can't even afford it.

Number 2 We're talking about an undrafted fee agent who had 1 good year and is still under contract.


Right now Cruz is getting paid like a reasonably connected Wall Street guy rather than a football player. He's played like a star but he's played like star for 1 season. Undrafted free agent shocks the world...Great.

You give him a nice mid level contract on par with number 2 recievers in the league and add some years and send him on his way. If her doubles up his performance in 2012 won't matter because he will have already signed a new contract.

Cruz may think he's worth more but as I explained he's not in strong position to negotiate.

So what Im saying is the way this needs to be handled is you throw Cruz a bone...a mid level bone...let him play 3 years into the contract and then revisit it. Paying him like a superstar now would be borderline retarted UNLESS Cruz withdrew. Refused the deal and refused to hold out. Defiantly taking the 400 gs. Because at that point his ability to double up his performance would be a problem.

(If I was his agent that would be my advise. take the 400,000 this year and then right your own ticket. But he's already come out and said he's looking for a new deal)

But He's got a kid to think about. He'll take a deal.

I don't see any correlation between Cruz and NIcks contract wise.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:36 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


total guess. But no more of a guess than your Nicks is gonna let Cruz set his bar theory.

As far as what Cruz does in another year that would be the point is redoing his contract now. If we let him play out next season he'd become unaffordable with much greater leverage.

And of course that's the part I'm not guessing on.

All Cruz can do at this point is ask for a reasonable raise. If he gets carried away the Giants can tell him to screw because hes under contract.

He can hold out but while that's not ideal...he's not our number 1 reciever. We have very good top End reciever in Nicks and we have the best QB in the league that gives Cruz very little leverage and even in a hold out situation he's losing money in the way of fines and in the way of long term high end money by labeling himself a malcontent.

So the Giants will offer him a reasonable contract which he'll gladly accept and that will be that.

To simplify he's not in a position to demand Stevie Johnson Money despite being the better player of the two.

So Cruz's contract will be far inferior to anything Nicks is going to ask for regardless.

The scenario you're talking about will actually work out in the reverse where Cruz is going to want Nicks type money in a few years.

actually I know that one for a fact. Nicks is waiting on Cruz's contract...

IF he doubles up a year he just had his price tag will be much more than it is now. Obviously we are all basing this on Cruz not being a fluke.

And thats the point, we want to get the reasonable raise and extension now.

Its like your agreeing with my point but somehow disagreeing. If Cruz has another year like he did he'll be MORE than Stevie Johnson.

How does locking Cruz up at a legit deal now, work in reverse? He'll have a contract where he got paid and you back end the deal. In a few years his contract would be up so what would be the difference?


You're assuming or presuming that Cruz is going to get a bigtime contract and I think the Giants would be stupid to do that.

So its not like we're agreeing at all.

You just claimed that you knew for fact that Nicks was waiting on Cruz's contract to use as a guide which doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't make sense for 2 reasons.

1) Even if Cruz got a big deal it wouldn't be close to what Nicks will be looking for. Like I said Nicks will want to be paid as one of the very best top 5 WRs in the league when negotiation time comes.

2) Cruz isn't getting a big time deal right now so if Nicks is going to use that as a measuring stick he'd be selling himself very short.

So id say if you're connected to point where you know Nick's negotiation tactics you should give him a call and tell him to fire his agent pronto.

On the other hand there is no reason at all for us to give Cruz a "legit" deal right now.

Number 1 we can't even afford it.

Number 2 We're talking about an undrafted fee agent who had 1 good year and is still under contract.


Right now Cruz is getting paid like a reasonably connected Wall Street guy rather than a football player. He's played like a star but he's played like star for 1 season. Undrafted free agent shocks the world...Great.

You give him a nice mid level contract on par with number 2 recievers in the league and add some years and send him on his way. If her doubles up his performance in 2012 won't matter because he will have already signed a new contract.

Cruz may think he's worth more but as I explained he's not in strong position to negotiate.

So what Im saying is the way this needs to be handled is you throw Cruz a bone...a mid level bone...let him play 3 years into the contract and then revisit it. Paying him like a superstar now would be borderline retarted UNLESS Cruz withdrew. Refused the deal and refused to hold out. Definantly taking the 400 gs. Because at that point his ability to double up his performance would be a problem.

(If I was his agent that would be my advise. take the 400,000 this year and then right your own ticket. But he's already come out and said he's looking for a new deal)

But He's got a kid to think about. He'll take a deal.

I don't see any correlation between Cruz and NIcks contract wise.

how would u assume that after 2 years in a row of outstanding production that Cruz wouldn't get a big contract? that would make no sense.

And like I said im not getting into the message board BS, but I know Nicks is watching Cruz's contract. Take it for what its worth.

Your assuming that Nicks is going to ask for top 5 money.

Right now, you wouldn't give Cruz the big time deal. If you wait a year and he produces like he did last year he will command big time money. Are you not seeing the difference between one year and two year of top production?

Stop speaking in words and give me numbers that you are suggesting for Cruz.

The whole point is to get him something now with a few years on it so that we don't get put in that position next year of having to pay him a big time contract.

We'll have a really good measuring stick by what Mario gets and compare that to what Cruz should get - would u agree with that?

But the point is tha ttypically everybody's contract effects everybody elses when it comes to free agents or giving new deals


and the point of this thread is that the first contract out of the gate being an inflated deal is not a good start

Kruunch
03-05-2012, 04:37 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if* u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth.* Another year of numbers that replicates last BOARDS (default.aspx)
year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


That's what next year is all about for Cruz.

which is why I don't want to wait anoither year before we try and hammer this out with him


Like I said, we probably give him a 2 year extension to get him past the vet minimum length required.

I doubt he'd sign for a longer term then that and if he did his agent should be shot (unless we just blew him away with a huge offer which I don't see us doing).

Expect him extended for 2 years @ 3-5mil a year (total guess based on nothing but the length of the term and the current CBA).

u think an extension on next year/ so he'll be a FA after 2014?

I think I could live with that


After 2013 actually.

Then he'd be a total unrestricted Free Agent with the league minimum of years required.

If he's still producing big numbers next year and into 2013 ... look for us to give him a big deal then.

Nicks potentially gums up the works since he's an FA in 2014.

Either way, 2012 should be an awesome year for us passing wise, as Nicks and Cruz battle it out for stat supremecy.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:39 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last BOARDS (default.aspx)
year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


That's what next year is all about for Cruz.

which is why I don't want to wait anoither year before we try and hammer this out with him


Like I said, we probably give him a 2 year extension to get him past the vet minimum length required.

I doubt he'd sign for a longer term then that and if he did his agent should be shot (unless we just blew him away with a huge offer which I don't see us doing).

Expect him extended for 2 years @ 3-5mil a year (total guess based on nothing but the length of the term and the current CBA).

u think an extension on next year/ so he'll be a FA after 2014?

I think I could live with that


After 2013 actually.

Then he'd be a total unrestricted Free Agent with the league minimum of years required.

If he's still producing big numbers next year and into 2013 ... look for us to give him a big deal then.

Nicks potentially gums up the works since he's an FA in 2014.

Either way, 2012 should be an awesome year for us passing wise, as Nicks and Cruz battle it out for stat supremecy.

Well hes under contract for this year so when u said extend him i would of thought extending the deal he has now for two years

I dont think i'd want Cruz and Nicks being FA's in the same year...

Kruunch
03-05-2012, 04:44 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if* u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth.* Another year of numbers that replicates last BOARDS (default.aspx)
year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


That's what next year is all about for Cruz.

which is why I don't want to wait anoither year before we try and hammer this out with him


Like I said, we probably give him a 2 year extension to get him past the vet minimum length required.

I doubt he'd sign for a longer term then that and if he did his agent should be shot (unless we just blew him away with a huge offer which I don't see us doing).

Expect him extended for 2 years @ 3-5mil a year (total guess based on nothing but the length of the term and the current CBA).

u think an extension on next year/ so he'll be a FA after 2014?

I think I could live with that


After 2013 actually.

Then he'd be a total unrestricted Free Agent with the league minimum of years required.

If he's still producing big numbers next year and into 2013 ... look for us to give him a big deal then.

Nicks potentially gums up the works since he's an FA in 2014.

Either way, 2012 should be an awesome year for us passing wise, as Nicks and Cruz battle it out for stat supremecy.

Well hes under contract for this year so when u said extend him i would of thought extending the deal he has now for two years

I dont think i'd want Cruz and Nicks being FA's in the same year...


I wouldn't either but it's also up to Cruz to actually accept being extended for whatever length the Giants will try for.

No matter what happens though, Cruz HAS to play with similar numbers in 2012 to get true #1 money from someone else (or us).

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:48 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last BOARDS (default.aspx)
year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


That's what next year is all about for Cruz.

which is why I don't want to wait anoither year before we try and hammer this out with him


Like I said, we probably give him a 2 year extension to get him past the vet minimum length required.

I doubt he'd sign for a longer term then that and if he did his agent should be shot (unless we just blew him away with a huge offer which I don't see us doing).

Expect him extended for 2 years @ 3-5mil a year (total guess based on nothing but the length of the term and the current CBA).

u think an extension on next year/ so he'll be a FA after 2014?

I think I could live with that


After 2013 actually.

Then he'd be a total unrestricted Free Agent with the league minimum of years required.

If he's still producing big numbers next year and into 2013 ... look for us to give him a big deal then.

Nicks potentially gums up the works since he's an FA in 2014.

Either way, 2012 should be an awesome year for us passing wise, as Nicks and Cruz battle it out for stat supremecy.

Well hes under contract for this year so when u said extend him i would of thought extending the deal he has now for two years

I dont think i'd want Cruz and Nicks being FA's in the same year...


I wouldn't either but it's also up to Cruz to actually accept being extended for whatever length the Giants will try for.

No matter what happens though, Cruz HAS to play with similar numbers in 2012 to get true #1 money from someone else (or us).

yea exactly.. i'd look to try and give him soemthing to make him happy for the next 3 seasons so he wouldn't be a FA until after 2014...

Give hime some thing like 3 year 13-14 mil, guarantee 8 of it...

see if he'd bite

maybe like a 3

burier
03-05-2012, 04:54 PM
Nicks is gonna want to be paid like a top 5 WR in the NFL. Not really sure why you think Cruz will be Nick's measuring stick at all. Nicks is the number 1 reciever on the team and first round draft choice. Plus he and more importantly his agent know that alot of Cruz success is based on the attention Nicks gets. If the Giants sit down with Nicks talking about Cruz's contract that conversation will go south very quickly.


We bring Cruz in and talk turkey. Say hey you had a great year you deserve a boost. But I doubt we're going to pay him top 5 money.

Actually I know we aren't

Nicks on the other hand will demand top 5 money but we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

Yea but much like Bradshaw/Jacobs, if u get one to sacrifice you can get the other


The thing with Cruz is I think he's just looking for a good faith offer from the Giants. "I did good this year so take care of me"

I don't necessarily think he's going to use the current WR market as an end all be all measuring stick. He's under contract. The Giants have more leverage. I don't think we're going to lose our shirt over Victor Cruz...not yet atleast.

The difference between Bradshaw/Jacobs and Nicks/Cruz is that Bradshaw and Jacobs were both late round draft picks who as Giants had good years but not great years that would drive their value up on the market. They like playing together..they like the team..they take a little less money.

Nicks on the other hand is a first round pick and looks like he could be making a step into that upper echelon of recievers. Cruz's "sacrifice" in the case is unlikely to hold any weight in Nick's mind.

thats a guess, you have no clue what he thinks he worth. Another year of numbers that replicates last year and you think he won't ask for top 10 money?

Even still, do you think he would not warrant something similiar to Stevie Johnson?


total guess. But no more of a guess than your Nicks is gonna let Cruz set his bar theory.

As far as what Cruz does in another year that would be the point is redoing his contract now. If we let him play out next season he'd become unaffordable with much greater leverage.

And of course that's the part I'm not guessing on.

All Cruz can do at this point is ask for a reasonable raise. If he gets carried away the Giants can tell him to screw because hes under contract.

He can hold out but while that's not ideal...he's not our number 1 reciever. We have very good top End reciever in Nicks and we have the best QB in the league that gives Cruz very little leverage and even in a hold out situation he's losing money in the way of fines and in the way of long term high end money by labeling himself a malcontent.

So the Giants will offer him a reasonable contract which he'll gladly accept and that will be that.

To simplify he's not in a position to demand Stevie Johnson Money despite being the better player of the two.

So Cruz's contract will be far inferior to anything Nicks is going to ask for regardless.

The scenario you're talking about will actually work out in the reverse where Cruz is going to want Nicks type money in a few years.

actually I know that one for a fact. Nicks is waiting on Cruz's contract...

IF he doubles up a year he just had his price tag will be much more than it is now. Obviously we are all basing this on Cruz not being a fluke.

And thats the point, we want to get the reasonable raise and extension now.*

Its like your agreeing with my point but somehow disagreeing. If Cruz has another year like he did he'll be MORE than Stevie Johnson.

How does locking Cruz up at a legit deal now, work in reverse?* He'll have a contract where he got paid and you back end the deal. In a few years his contract would be up so what would be the difference?


You're assuming or presuming that Cruz is going to get a bigtime contract and I think the Giants would be stupid to do that.

So its not like we're agreeing at all.

You just claimed that you knew for fact that Nicks was waiting on Cruz's contract to use as a guide which doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't make sense for 2 reasons.

1) Even if Cruz got a big deal it wouldn't be close to what Nicks will be looking for. Like I said Nicks will want to be paid as one of the very best top 5 WRs in the league when negotiation time comes.

2) Cruz isn't getting a big time deal right now so if Nicks is going to use that as a measuring stick he'd be selling himself very short.

So id say if you're connected to point where you know Nick's negotiation tactics you should give him a call and tell him to fire his agent pronto.

On the other hand there is no reason at all for us to give Cruz a "legit" deal right now.

Number 1 we can't even afford it.

Number 2 We're talking about an undrafted fee agent who had 1 good year and is still under contract.


Right now Cruz is getting paid like a reasonably connected Wall Street guy rather than a football player. He's played like a star but he's played like star for 1 season. Undrafted free agent shocks the world...Great.

You give him a nice mid level contract on par with number 2 recievers in the league and add some years and send him on his way. If her doubles up his performance in 2012 won't matter because he will have already signed a new contract.

Cruz may think he's worth more but as I explained he's not in strong position to negotiate.

So what Im saying is the way this needs to be handled is you throw Cruz a bone...a mid level bone...let him play 3 years into the contract and then revisit it. Paying him like a superstar now would be borderline retarted UNLESS Cruz withdrew. Refused the deal and refused to hold out. Definantly taking the 400 gs. Because at that point his ability to double up his performance would be a problem.

(If I was his agent that would be my advise. take the 400,000 this year and then right your own ticket. But he's already come out and said he's looking for a new deal)

But He's got a kid to think about. He'll take a deal.

I don't see any correlation between Cruz and NIcks contract wise.

how would u assume that after 2 years in a row of outstanding production that Cruz wouldn't get a big contract? that would make no sense.

And like I said im not getting into the message board BS, but I know Nicks is watching Cruz's contract. Take it for what its worth.

Your assuming that Nicks is going to ask for top 5 money.

Right now, you wouldn't give Cruz the big time deal. If you wait a year and he produces like he did last year he will command big time money. Are you not seeing the difference between one year and two year of top production?

Stop speaking in words and give me numbers that you are suggesting for Cruz.

The whole point is to get him something now with a few years on it so that we don't get put in that position next year of having to pay him a big time contract.

We'll have a really good measuring stick by what Mario gets and compare that to what Cruz should get - would u agree with that?

But the point is tha ttypically everybody's contract effects everybody elses when it comes to free agents or giving new deals


and the point of this thread is that the first contract out of the gate being an inflated deal is not a good start


Yeah I got the point of the thread but its wrong. That's all I'm saying.

If we sign Cruz for say an additional 2 years right now there's no way he's gonna come back and ask for more money the very next year. He'd still have multiple years left on his contract...He just wouldn't have any cards to play.

The point is to sign him cheap now and pay him cheap for as long as possible.

If he continues to produce he's gonna get his payday eventually but we can put it off but locking him up at a reasonable price right now.

Sooo...I mean I don't know what else to say. Players cant just run around and demand more money than what they're contracted to recieve as you seem to suggest.

As far as taking your knowledge on nicks for what is worth...If you can't drop a name its worthless.

And even if you could it wouldn't change the stupidity of such a position. (As detailed twice now by me)

I am assuming that Nicks is going to ask for top 5 money because he's a top 5 player. Thats why players have agents so that they can get paid what they're worth not to get paid what someone else is worth when someone else is worth less.


As far as Steve Johnson's contract effecting the market. Of course.. And in someway it may have driven the price of Cruz up...but it didn't drive it up to Steve Johnson status.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:59 PM
"The point is to sign him cheap now and pay him cheap for as long as possible."

which is the main point that i've been making. So like i've said its like your agreeing with me, but pretending your not.

burier
03-05-2012, 05:02 PM
"The point is to sign him cheap now and pay him cheap for as long as possible."

which is the main point that i've been making. So like i've said its like your agreeing with me, but pretending your not.


lol..

But didn't you say that Nicks was waiting on Cruz's contract...you think we're going to pay Nicks cheap?

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 05:07 PM
"The point is to sign him cheap now and pay him cheap for as long as possible."

which is the main point that i've been making. So like i've said its like your agreeing with me, but pretending your not.


lol..

But didn't you say that Nicks was waiting on Cruz's contract...you think we're going to pay Nicks cheap?

Well if we would of blockbustered Cruz or waited til next year to do it, it would or hiked Hakeems price up as in situation where: you paid this guy this much, so i must be worth this much then

If we can keep Cruz happy and not give him a large deal, then thats one less card Nicks will have. Infact the Giants will be able to come back and say: look we do responsible contract, we want to pay you, we just don't want it out of control

But the point is that if we don't give him a new contract and then try to sign him next year and he performs the way he did this year, then that will jack up his price which in turn would jack up Nicks price.

Then if we just decide to let Cruz play out his deal with no real extension and try to RFA him for 2013, then he may just hold out then we're in a ****ty position

giantsfan420
03-05-2012, 05:19 PM
mmb-ur prob one of the better, most friendly posters here. so dont take this as disrespectful, but ur acting as if u have a solid understanding of whats going to happen...

as far as i know, no one can predict the future. nor do u know whats going thru cruz's or nicks mind.

cruz has come off, to me at least, as been a team oriented, gracious for the giants giving him an opportunity, team first guy. i severely doubt we see cruz being a diva, or valuing himself so high.

imho, cruz will want a fair contract for himself and for the team. he has to know the success he's had has come in large part bc of nicks, why would he want a contract that makes it next to impossible to have nicks play with him? he also knows, and has stated repeatedly how thankful and appreciative he is of eli for giving him his chance and throwing to him.

i think nicks is similar to that as well. i doubt either player makes it difficult for both to be a part of this team. i expect very friendly, hometown discount contracts to be signed by both. it wont be unfair contracts, reese will know both their worth...dont forget we do have eli...he could prob make me and u look good, so i have very very lil doubt things dont work out for nicks and cruz...they've given us no reason to doubt it

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 05:30 PM
mmb-ur prob one of the better, most friendly posters here. so dont take this as disrespectful, but ur acting as if u have a solid understanding of whats going to happen...

as far as i know, no one can predict the future. nor do u know whats going thru cruz's or nicks mind.

cruz has come off, to me at least, as been a team oriented, gracious for the giants giving him an opportunity, team first guy. i severely doubt we see cruz being a diva, or valuing himself so high.

imho, cruz will want a fair contract for himself and for the team. he has to know the success he's had has come in large part bc of nicks, why would he want a contract that makes it next to impossible to have nicks play with him? he also knows, and has stated repeatedly how thankful and appreciative he is of eli for giving him his chance and throwing to him.

i think nicks is similar to that as well. i doubt either player makes it difficult for both to be a part of this team. i expect very friendly, hometown discount contracts to be signed by both. it wont be unfair contracts, reese will know both their worth...dont forget we do have eli...he could prob make me and u look good, so i have very very lil doubt things dont work out for nicks and cruz...they've given us no reason to doubt it

well that may be true.. .but even nice guys want to get theirs.

I just don't know what your disagreeing with me on with my response to you:

"
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>
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<div id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr__ctl0___PostRepeater__ctl6_PostVie wWrapper" class="ForumPostContentText">
<blockquote><div>../Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif giantsfan420:</div><div>cruz
has already displayed a good team attitude, saying he isnt demanding a
new contract right now.

as good as he was, he is still our #2 wr. S.Johnson is a #1 wr.

I imagine Cruz would be STOKED with a 5 year deal worth 20-25 mil which
for his production is a bargain...i don't see him demanding to be the
highest paid wr or top 5 or anything, just payed fairly...not worried
too much about it as I'm sure both Nicks and Cruz know that having each
other is paramount to their sustainable success...</div></blockquote>

Cruz is a #2 here, but his talent is #1...

the longer we wait, the worse it will be for us. He will cost more next year than he does this year.

--------------

I mean its not a knock on Cruz at all. I mean this is still a business and Cruz did just fire his original agent for a better one. So we know he obviously DOES care about money. He has come out and said he wants to be paid for his production - which is completely fiar.

The point im trying to make is that right now Cruz's asking price would definitly be cheaper than it would next year at this time if he replicates or even comes close t othe year he had this year.

and define a fair contract, Cruz's numbers were second to only Calvin Johnson and Wes Welker and he was just a part of a superbowl winner. I don't think there is anyway he signs a5 year deal at this point, especially for 5 mil a year. If he would, I would love it.

Discount is fine, but they will still be hefty contracts. And you can bet if the Giants were to give Cruz a monster contract next year, Nicks is going to want more than that.
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giantsfan420
03-05-2012, 05:36 PM
mmb-ur prob one of the better, most friendly posters here. so dont take this as disrespectful, but ur acting as if u have a solid understanding of whats going to happen...

as far as i know, no one can predict the future. nor do u know whats going thru cruz's or nicks mind.

cruz has come off, to me at least, as been a team oriented, gracious for the giants giving him an opportunity, team first guy. i severely doubt we see cruz being a diva, or valuing himself so high.

imho, cruz will want a fair contract for himself and for the team. he has to know the success he's had has come in large part bc of nicks, why would he want a contract that makes it next to impossible to have nicks play with him? he also knows, and has stated repeatedly how thankful and appreciative he is of eli for giving him his chance and throwing to him.

i think nicks is similar to that as well. i doubt either player makes it difficult for both to be a part of this team. i expect very friendly, hometown discount contracts to be signed by both. it wont be unfair contracts, reese will know both their worth...dont forget we do have eli...he could prob make me and u look good, so i have very very lil doubt things dont work out for nicks and cruz...they've given us no reason to doubt it

well that may be true.. .but even nice guys want to get theirs.

I just don't know what your disagreeing with me on with my response to you:

"
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td>
<div class="ForumPostBodyArea">
<div id="_ctl0__ctl1_bcr__ctl0___PostRepeater__ctl6_PostVie wWrapper" class="ForumPostContentText">
<blockquote><div>../Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif giantsfan420:</div><div>cruz
has already displayed a good team attitude, saying he isnt demanding a
new contract right now.

as good as he was, he is still our #2 wr. S.Johnson is a #1 wr.

I imagine Cruz would be STOKED with a 5 year deal worth 20-25 mil which
for his production is a bargain...i don't see him demanding to be the
highest paid wr or top 5 or anything, just payed fairly...not worried
too much about it as I'm sure both Nicks and Cruz know that having each
other is paramount to their sustainable success...</div></blockquote>

Cruz is a #2 here, but his talent is #1...

the longer we wait, the worse it will be for us.* He will cost more next year than he does this year.

--------------

I mean its not a knock on Cruz at all. I mean this is still a business and Cruz did just fire his original agent for a better one.* So we know he obviously DOES care about money.* He has come out and said he wants to be paid for his production - which is completely fiar.

The point im trying to make is that right now Cruz's asking price would definitly be cheaper than it would next year at this time if he replicates or even comes close t othe year he had this year.

and define a fair contract, Cruz's numbers were second to only Calvin Johnson and Wes Welker and he was just a part of a superbowl winner.* I don't think there is anyway he signs* a5 year deal at this point, especially for 5 mil a year. If he would, I would love it.

Discount is fine, but they will still be hefty contracts. And you can bet if the Giants were to give Cruz a monster contract next year, Nicks is going to want more than that.
</div>
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i dont see cruz thinking he'd have near the success he had last season w/o nicks. thats my point. ur acting as if the contracts are independent from another and that one will price the other up...i dont see it that way. i see it as more of both guys wanting to be teammates for the giants with eli throwing them the ball.

of course it'd save us money now but theirs no way we can get a valid contract to cruz long term with our cap as it stands right now.

i agree with a lot of what ur saying except that cruz contract will mean nicks wants more and vice versa...i think they both realize they are at their best with one another...i dunno, maybe i'm reading too much into ur opinion on it it just seems as if u feel like u know what will happen, i dont think anyone does...

i mean god forbid cruz gets hurt, then what? do we give him a SS type contract? theirs just way too much unknowns right now. but i feel strongly whatever happens, both nicks and cruz will be our wrs for the next 5-7 years...


something i've been wondering, are these guys that good where we could have an alex smith type qb and pay half of what eli makes and be successful? or is it eli who is elevating their play? i personally believe its eli elevating their play, but i dunno just throwing out talking points...

burier
03-05-2012, 05:41 PM
"The point is to sign him cheap now and pay him cheap for as long as possible."

which is the main point that i've been making. So like i've said its like your agreeing with me, but pretending your not.
lol.. But didn't you say that Nicks was waiting on Cruz's contract...you think we're going to pay Nicks cheap?

Well if we would of blockbustered Cruz or waited til next year to do it, it would or hiked Hakeems price up as in situation where: you paid this guy this much, so i must be worth this much then

If we can keep Cruz happy and not give him a large deal, then thats one less card Nicks will have. Infact the Giants will be able to come back and say: look we do responsible contract, we want to pay you, we just don't want it out of control

But the point is that if we don't give him a new contract and then try to sign him next year and he performs the way he did this year, then that will jack up his price which in turn would jack up Nicks price.

Then if we just decide to let Cruz play out his deal with no real extension and try to RFA him for 2013, then he may just hold out then we're in a ****ty position
</P>


</P>


based on what you're saying now I'm gonna go ahead and we should agree to agree at this point.</P>


But I'd just remind you that they can't pull that responsible contract stuff with Nicks...Actually they can seem to pull that with anyone. Seems everytime we offer a responsible contract to a player that player winds up playing somewhere else. Nicks wouldn't be any different.</P>


You could play hardball with him but once hes a free agent he's gone barring injury</P>

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 05:48 PM
well, while I doubt hed have 1500 and 10 (because thats Calvin Johnson numbers), I think he'd be able to put up a respectable season even if Nicks wasn't there.

thats exactly how contracts work. In Free Agency and hell even the franchise tag. I mean do you think that Nicks would take less than Cruz?

Nicks wants more, thats without a doubt. Thats the 1st guarantee I can make to you.

And since we're talking about extending Cruz, i will assume that we want to extend him based off the fact that we guess he will continue to produce at a high level. And if he does do that, the 2nd guarantee I can make you is that if you try and work a contract out with him afte rhe has another year to prove that hes NOT a fluke - that will cause his price to go up - home price discount or not.

Well that is the question is it Eli making the WRs or vice versa. Personally I say its both and thats why we threw for 5k this year. I think when you can have a connection between WRs and QBs in this type of an offense its invaluable.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 05:51 PM
"The point is to sign him cheap now and pay him cheap for as long as possible."

which is the main point that i've been making. So like i've said its like your agreeing with me, but pretending your not.
lol.. But didn't you say that Nicks was waiting on Cruz's contract...you think we're going to pay Nicks cheap?

Well if we would of blockbustered Cruz or waited til next year to do it, it would or hiked Hakeems price up as in situation where: you paid this guy this much, so i must be worth this much then

If we can keep Cruz happy and not give him a large deal, then thats one less card Nicks will have. Infact the Giants will be able to come back and say: look we do responsible contract, we want to pay you, we just don't want it out of control

But the point is that if we don't give him a new contract and then try to sign him next year and he performs the way he did this year, then that will jack up his price which in turn would jack up Nicks price.

Then if we just decide to let Cruz play out his deal with no real extension and try to RFA him for 2013, then he may just hold out then we're in a ****ty position
</p>


</p>


based on what you're saying now I'm gonna go ahead and we should agree to agree at this point.</p>


But I'd just remind you that they can't pull that responsible contract stuff with Nicks...Actually they can seem to pull that with anyone. Seems everytime we offer a responsible contract to a player that player winds up playing somewhere else. Nicks wouldn't be any different.</p>


You could play hardball with him but once hes a free agent he's gone barring injury</p>

http://sqljoe.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/animkeytodeath.gif?w=100&amp;h=71

Its the same thing i've been saying the whole time lololol.

Thats not really true either though. I mean we got Bradshaw back, we would of had Boss back if Al Davis had passed away a year earlier. We got hit hard with the cap bug last year and thats all it was. Other than that I don't really recall being broken up about losing anybody else.

Cofield was never coming back, he had a contract year in his contract year and we had already basically committed to go another route.

Kruunch
03-05-2012, 06:28 PM
Having two bona fide play making #1 receivers is an awesome problem to have.

BUT very rarely can you keep that package together (if ever).

If both Nicks and Cruz continue to have the kind of production that they did in 2011, one of them will be gone by 2013-14.

Unless one of them is willing to work at about half of what he could get on the open market (which has never happened to my knowledge).

JJC7301
03-05-2012, 10:03 PM
In a year where most of us would like to extend Cruz to get him as cheap as possible, because it will probably be what Nicks will base what he wants off of - we had a bad start....

Stevie Johnson is the first FA (or was about to be a FA) WR to get a deal. 36 mil over 5 years, 20 guaranteed, and its front loaded.

This is going to set the presedence for WRs for the rest of FA and probably effect Cruz.

This is no bueno

I'm not too worried. I think we'll have Nicks and Cruz for the long term. But I would get both of them signed to long term extensions sooner rather than later.

MattMeyerBud
03-06-2012, 10:35 AM
Having two bona fide play making #1 receivers is an awesome problem to have.

BUT very rarely can you keep that package together (if ever).

If both Nicks and Cruz continue to have the kind of production that they did in 2011, one of them will be gone by 2013-14.

Unless one of them is willing to work at about half of what he could get on the open market (which has never happened to my knowledge).

yea but like we were saying yesterday... maybe we can just get a year added to what Cruz has now, give him a decent contract with a nice guaranteed number and we'll deal with it 3 years from now hen hopfully some. He'll be 28 at that point and still young enough for a nice deal.

I think by nature it sounds fair - u want the next two years to be paid? Then add a year and we'll pay u that year as well

burier
03-06-2012, 10:43 AM
"The point is to sign him cheap now and pay him cheap for as long as possible."

which is the main point that i've been making. So like i've said its like your agreeing with me, but pretending your not.
lol.. But didn't you say that Nicks was waiting on Cruz's contract...you think we're going to pay Nicks cheap?

Well if we would of blockbustered Cruz or waited til next year to do it, it would or hiked Hakeems price up as in situation where: you paid this guy this much, so i must be worth this much then

If we can keep Cruz happy and not give him a large deal,* then thats one less card Nicks will have.* Infact the Giants will be able to come back and say: look we do responsible contract, we want to pay you, we just don't want it out of control

But the point is that if we don't give him a new contract and then try to sign him next year and he performs the way he did this year, then that will jack up his price which in turn would jack up Nicks price.

Then if we just decide to let Cruz play out his deal with no real extension and try to RFA him for 2013, then he may just hold out then we're in a ****ty position
</p>


*</p>


based on what you're saying now I'm gonna go ahead and we should agree to agree at this point.</p>


But I'd just remind you that they can't pull that responsible contract stuff with Nicks...Actually they can seem to pull that with anyone. Seems everytime we offer a responsible contract to a player that player winds up playing somewhere else. Nicks wouldn't be any different.</p>


You could play hardball with him but once hes a free agent he's gone barring injury</p>

http://sqljoe.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/animkeytodeath.gif?w=100&h=71

Its the same thing i've been saying the whole time lololol.

Thats not really true either though. I mean we got Bradshaw back, we would of had Boss back if Al Davis had passed away a year earlier. We got hit hard with the cap bug last year and thats all it was.* Other than that I don't really recall being broken up about losing anybody else.

Cofield was never coming back, he had a contract year* in his contract year and we had already basically committed to go another route.


With respect your initial thought didn't have the "ifs" in it.

As far as the players we lost I agree. We didn't lose anyone who was that big of a deal. But Nicks would be big deal.

gumby742
03-08-2012, 04:01 PM
I wonder how Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison worked out? Or was Wayne paid like a 2nd fiddle. I don't remember.

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 04:29 PM
I wonder how Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison worked out? Or was Wayne paid like a 2nd fiddle. I don't remember.

just looked

Wayne got off his rookie deal in 05 going into 06, didn't sign the biggest deal. 6 years 40 mil with 13 guaranteed. Pretty equal split but the bigger end of it was in the 2nd half of the deal.

Harrison signed his big deal in 04, monster one 7 for 67 mil. He was cut before the 09-10 season. So really the Colts only had him and Wayne together for 2 years.

But they also let go and dind't resign Edge because of it. Rest of the money was sunk in on Peyton, their DEs, and OLine

gumby742
03-08-2012, 04:56 PM
I wonder how Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison worked out? Or was Wayne paid like a 2nd fiddle. I don't remember.

just looked

Wayne got off his rookie deal in 05 going into 06, didn't sign the biggest deal. 6 years 40 mil with 13 guaranteed. Pretty equal split but the bigger end of it was in the 2nd half of the deal.

Harrison signed his big deal in 04, monster one 7 for 67 mil. He was cut before the 09-10 season. So really the Colts only had him and Wayne together for 2 years.

But they also let go and dind't resign Edge because of it.* Rest of the money was sunk in on Peyton, their DEs, and OLine


It's going to be interesting. We/let alone all teams won't have enough money to throw around to be balanced all positions. Some thing's gotta give, if we do pay them both. If it does, I'm guessing the secondary and running game. Which essentially will turn us into the Colts.

If it were up to me, I'd probably pay Nicks and hope that Cruz comes cheaper. If not, so be it. An extension to Cruz right now, seems attractive sine he'll command a much lower salary, but it really takes more then one year to get me comfortable.

Anyway, back to work.

Redeyejedi
03-08-2012, 04:58 PM
If U think these receivers will be expensive wait until a 26 year old JPP is do a contract.He hasnt even peaked yet and he had 16.5 sacks and 80 tackles. The Giants may have to make him the highest paid Defensive player in the League thats a real possibility.

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 05:51 PM
If U think these receivers will be expensive wait until a 26 year old JPP is do a contract.He hasnt even peaked yet and he had 16.5 sacks and 80 tackles. The Giants may have to make him the highest paid Defensive player in the League thats a real possibility.

that it is

but he has also already said that he would take a pay cut to keep players around him