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View Full Version : I fear this bounty investigation could become league wide



G-Man67
03-05-2012, 03:22 PM
i don't see this investigation being limited toGreg Williams, since i believe from everything i'm hearing that most,if not, all teams did these "side bets" which kinda annoys me, because where is this going to end ... i don't want our players/coaches being asked questions about what went on in our Super Bowl winning locker room ... i could just see "former Giant reveals locker room bets" ... i hope they just make an example out of the Saints and Williams and re-emphasize the existing policy or enhance that policy

Diamondring
03-05-2012, 03:24 PM
And how can it effect the Giants.

G-Man67
03-05-2012, 03:32 PM
And how can it effect the Giants.</P>


well now every media pig and every bloggeris going to try to find more snitches ... the Saints were not the only team doing these bets and what would be a better story ... champs locker room had similar bets&lt;P&gt;</P>


this better go away quickly !!!</P>

manning2burress
03-05-2012, 03:34 PM
Its not really the bets between players that the nfl is upset about, its the bets to injure other players and the coaching staff knowing about it. There is a huge difference (at least to me) for player to give another player money for each sack he gets in a game or an interception (which occurs) Vs a player getting payed for knocking someone out of a game.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 03:36 PM
depends how they knock em out

cheap shot diving at the legs - thats scumbag stuff

giving a guy like Boley a pot of money becuase he cracked Romo's collarbone on a nasty clean hit - im okay with that

bLuereverie
03-05-2012, 03:36 PM
The Saints are in trouble now because they were warned about it in the past, but the issues persisted. The problem with the Saints in the first place is their system was organized, transparent in they used cash from fines, and it was explicitly malicious in nature. Also, a coach was involved, with Payton and the GM at least knowing.

Minor incentives probably exist on every team, but are kept rather informal amongst teammates and clouded through dinners/electronics/gifts rather than the exchanging of cash.

As of now, I can't even see other teams like Redskins or Titans be punished for what went on when Williams coached there.

MikeIsaGiant
03-05-2012, 03:36 PM
I don't fear this bounty investigation.

I don't have any affiliation to the NFL.

And I am sure the giants are fine.

G-Man67
03-05-2012, 03:40 PM
Its not really the bets between players that the nfl is upset about, its the bets to injure other players and the coaching staff knowing about it. There is a huge difference (at least to me) for player to give another player money for each sack he gets in a game or an interception (which occurs) Vs a player getting payed for knocking someone out of a game.</P>


oh i agree, but i think that line is already getting blurred ... let's put it this way, they are not going to be looking into locker rooms of 4-12 teams ... if they decide to poke around elsewhere, well where might they look? ... Giants, Steelers, 49ers, Packers, Ravens... i'm just worried it could involve more teams and our Championship will make people go, hmmm i wonder if the Giants had anything like that going on?</P>

jjj45
03-05-2012, 03:40 PM
And how can it effect the Giants.</p>


well now every media pig and every bloggeris going to try to find more snitches ... the Saints were not the only team doing these bets and what would be a better story ... champs locker room had similar bets&lt;P&gt;</p>


this better go away quickly !!!</p>I think we'll be okay actually. The reason why the Saints will be hammered is because coaches and the GM were part of it.

Could you imagine TC telling our players to intentionally injure someone? Coughlin's not that kind of guy. Same thing with Perry fewell. Our D played so soft half the time, it looked like they were shying away from contact.

Yeah people could say how we knocked out 7 QB's last season. But every one of those hits were clean and legal, even to this flag football league.

What the Saints were doing to Favre and Warner was dirty.

G-Man67
03-05-2012, 03:51 PM
depends how they knock em out

cheap shot diving at the legs - thats scumbag stuff

giving a guy like Boley a pot of money becuase he cracked Romo's collarbone on a nasty clean hit - im okay with that
</P>


i'm ok with it too, but we are true, real, football fans ... we understand what we are watching out there ... casual and non-fans might not get it and would look at it as barbaric behavior ... watching Mike and Mike this morning ... you could see the blank look in Greenys eyes, he didn't get it ... i think there are a lot like him out there&lt;P&gt;</P>


big hits draw bigger OOOs and AHHsthan TDs many times, it's part of the sport, when Romo was hit hard and laid out ... i felt like , YEAH BABY , we got to you !!now will you have happy feet in the pocket?, now will you shrink under the pressure? ... naturally, when i found out he wasn't simply hurt, but injured ... well you don't wanna see that, but it's part of the game&lt;P&gt;</P>


you have Brandon Jacobs saying we decapitated them ... you had all the talk about how you kill a snake by going for the head ... if our guys keep the code and say, no i don't know anything about anything great ... but in these times ... hell, an x-players girlfriend could tweet ... we had a great dinner the week Michael Boley hurt Tony Romo ... just hope it goes away quickly ...</P>

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 03:54 PM
depends how they knock em out

cheap shot diving at the legs - thats scumbag stuff

giving a guy like Boley a pot of money becuase he cracked Romo's collarbone on a nasty clean hit - im okay with that
</p>


i'm ok with it too, but we are true, real, football fans ... we understand what we are watching out there ... casual and non-fans might not get it and would look at it as barbaric behavior ... watching Mike and Mike this morning ... you could see the blank look in Greenys eyes, he didn't get it ... i think there are a lot like him out there&lt;P&gt;</p>


big hits draw bigger OOOs and AHHsthan TDs many times, it's part of the sport, when Romo was hit hard and laid out ... i felt like , YEAH BABY , we got to you !!now will you have happy feet in the pocket?, now will you shrink under the pressure? ... naturally, when i found out he wasn't simply hurt, but injured ... well you don't wanna see that, but it's part of the game&lt;P&gt;</p>


you have Brandon Jacobs saying we decapitated them ... you had all the talk about how you kill a snake by going for the head ... if our guys keep the code and say, no i don't know anything about anything great ... but in these times ... hell, an x-players girlfriend could tweet ... we had a great dinner the week Michael Boley hurt Tony Romo ... just hope it goes away quickly ...</p>

the best bit of any sports show ever was JACKED UP - they switched it to cmon man

I just heard something on the radio that they are goingto get info on players trying to hit Farve low in the NFCC - thats a diff story. I take issue with cheap play

sharick88
03-05-2012, 04:03 PM
It's all apart of the game. Football is a violent sport for all of those who forgot the memo. I happen to think that this kind of stuff goes on in every single locker room in the NFL to some sort of degree. The NFL has to be concerned about the legal ramifications though. Players are now going to come out of the woodworks to sue because they will claim that their careers ended or were ruined against any of those teams Gregg Williams coached. I played football in high school (Al Bundy voice) and there were certainly incentives for knocking someone out of the box.

sharick88
03-05-2012, 04:05 PM
Most importantly, no one likes a snitch. Snitches get stitches and are *****es that get put in ditches.

bklyn1028
03-05-2012, 04:19 PM
Dont be surprised if Goodell lowers the mast on Williams, Payton and their GM. The NFL is dancing with a class action lawsuit with hundreds of former players with regards to concussions and player safety that was neglected over the past decades.

Goodell has absolutely no choice if he wants any leverage with this lawsuit but to level Williams and probably Payton. I've read the penalties / banning / suspensions will be unprecedented.

And......Williams deserves to be if not banned for life, at least at the very minimul a year. Payton should be suspended for minimum 1/2 year. Their GM, same. It's rough, I mean Loomis and Payton are as guilty as Williams, because they did not stop it. This isn't paying someone for int, and recovering a fumble. We all say, "you gotta knock that guy out of the game", but when you PAY someone to do it, it leaves a bad taste.

With all the player safety being showcased in the papers and news, Goodell has no choice but to be very severe, to the point of people saying...."holy sh*t"!!!!

ny06
03-05-2012, 04:19 PM
It's all apart of the game. Football is a violent sport for all of those who forgot the memo. I happen to think that this kind of stuff goes on in every single locker room in the NFL to some sort of degree. The NFL has to be concerned about the legal ramifications though. Players are now going to come out of the woodworks to sue because they will claim that their careers ended or were ruined against any of those teams Gregg Williams coached. I played football in high school (Al Bundy voice) and there were certainly incentives for knocking someone out of the box.</P>


I don't think it happens in every locker room. Now if were talking about back in the day? I would bet it happened more so then not. </P>


When NFL players were not getting paid as well as they were in todays standard. They had to do whatever possible to make a little extra money. And what better way to make it by knocking out an opponent. </P>


Remember this play in 86. </P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLlaMY_9PM</P>


Charles Martin knocking out McMahon. It was completely dirty and there must have been some sort of insentives for that to happen. </P>


Just ask players like Jack Lambert, Ray Nitschke, **** Butkus to name a fewif during there careers they were not trying to kill the opposing players. They may have not been compensated for it, but they did there best to take the opposing player out by any means necessary.</P>

nhpgiantsfan
03-05-2012, 04:25 PM
I think the bigger issue hear is that the Saints coaches were endorsing this stuff. I think it is safe to say that this is something TC would not be involved in. </P>


</P>

FBomb
03-05-2012, 04:30 PM
And how can it effect the Giants.</P>


well now every media pig and every bloggeris going to try to find more snitches ... the Saints were not the only team doing these bets and what would be a better story ... champs locker room had similar bets&lt;P&gt;</P>


this better go away quickly !!!</P>


</P>


eh.....if it IS league wide there really isn't too much the NFL can do about it other than fines and new rules with harsher penalties. What's done is done.</P>

G-Man67
03-05-2012, 04:32 PM
I think the bigger issue hear is that the Saints coaches were endorsing this stuff. I think it is safe to say that this is something TC would not be involved in. </P>


</P>


</P>


i hope you and others expressing this sentiment are right, but if Payton gets fined, etc. for looking the other way, then does that open the door for any other coach that has looked the other way to get in some hot water ... yes, i realize the Saints had already been slapped on the wrist, so Payton should have stopped looking the other way at that point, but all this is still pretty gray right now ... again hopefully it goes away quickly</P>

bklyn1028
03-05-2012, 04:43 PM
When you're the head coach, and GM, you have a responsibility to the owner (s) to win games, and sail a right ship.

Disregarding rules and regulations screws up the works. How in the world can the Saint's owner keep his GM, of all people, knowing he knew what went on, and that it was illegal?

It will probably cost the team hundreds of thousands of dollars how do you not fire him? Examples have to be made, or you're telling the world player safety is a joke.

When does it stop, when a career is over? Do we have another Stingley situation?

I bet you dollars to donuts, if Mara and Tisch had wind of this happining to their organization, superbowl or not, Coughlin, Fewell and Reese would be GONE!

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:44 PM
When you're the head coach, and GM, you have a responsibility to the owner (s) to win games, and sail a right ship.

Disregarding rules and regulations screws up the works. How in the world can the Saint's owner keep his GM, of all people, knowing he knew what went on, and that it was illegal?

It will probably cost the team hundreds of thousands of dollars how do you not fire him? Examples have to be made, or you're telling the world player safety is a joke.

When does it stop, when a career is over? Do we have another Stingley situation?

The GM knew? I hadn't heard that

bklyn1028
03-05-2012, 04:46 PM
When you're the head coach, and GM, you have a responsibility to the owner (s) to win games, and sail a right ship.

Disregarding rules and regulations screws up the works. How in the world can the Saint's owner keep his GM, of all people, knowing he knew what went on, and that it was illegal?

It will probably cost the team hundreds of thousands of dollars how do you not fire him? Examples have to be made, or you're telling the world player safety is a joke.

When does it stop, when a career is over? Do we have another Stingley situation?

The GM knew? I hadn't heard that




NOT ONLY did the GM (Loomis) knew, the owner told him to have it stopped, which he didn't.

bklyn1028
03-05-2012, 04:48 PM
This I hate to say it, is the same situation that Paterno had when that guy told him what Sandusky did in the shower. Paterno told the Athletic Director, and went on his merry way, without doing something about it. I know that is WAYYYYY different then this, but it's the perfect example of the Saints GM, not doing anything.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 04:50 PM
When you're the head coach, and GM, you have a responsibility to the owner (s) to win games, and sail a right ship.

Disregarding rules and regulations screws up the works. How in the world can the Saint's owner keep his GM, of all people, knowing he knew what went on, and that it was illegal?

It will probably cost the team hundreds of thousands of dollars how do you not fire him? Examples have to be made, or you're telling the world player safety is a joke.

When does it stop, when a career is over? Do we have another Stingley situation?

The GM knew? I hadn't heard that




NOT ONLY did the GM (Loomis) knew, the owner told him to have it stopped, which he didn't.

WOWWWW

on top of that and basically insulting your superstar QB, that dude needs to go lol

bklyn1028
03-05-2012, 05:25 PM
When you're the head coach, and GM, you have a responsibility to the owner (s) to win games, and sail a right ship.

Disregarding rules and regulations screws up the works. How in the world can the Saint's owner keep his GM, of all people, knowing he knew what went on, and that it was illegal?

It will probably cost the team hundreds of thousands of dollars how do you not fire him? Examples have to be made, or you're telling the world player safety is a joke.

When does it stop, when a career is over? Do we have another Stingley situation?

The GM knew? I hadn't heard that




NOT ONLY did the GM (Loomis) knew, the owner told him to have it stopped, which he didn't.

WOWWWW

on top of that and basically insulting your superstar QB, that dude needs to go lol


I don't see how they keep him, I really don't. And i'm surprised the Rams haven't let Williams go either. He admitted he's guilty. Keeping him is tantamount to telling everyone they condone what he did. If he did it for the Saints, and now we find out he also did it for a couple / few hears while at the Redskins, why woulnd't he do it again?

giantsfan420
03-05-2012, 05:26 PM
no way could i see this organization doing anything like what williams did.

TC is a class act, respect for the game type coach. Spags certainly follows suit as well as fewell...no way are the giants imploring a system like that

BlueSanta
03-05-2012, 05:40 PM
I think 1 point that many comparing this to the "old" days need to acknowledge is that many of the "old days" players are now the guys sueing the league for lack of healthcare. The long term healthcare risks of football were not really known back then.

When the players or fans make the argument "this is something that had always happened in this league" it undermines the player's desire to have the league foot the bill for their long term healthcare issues that arise from playing this game. If the players are actually rewarding each other for severe injuries, then how can they then turn around and say the league isnt doing enough to protect the players? Many of these ex-players are being hypocrites.

I've seen the league make rule changes and fund research into long term effects of football in an effort to curb risks. Where is the same commitment from the players to each other? I have now read multiple players come out saying thse types of bounty systems are a "part of the game." If the players are gonna be that irresponsible with each other maybe the they should consider their long term healcare costs "part of the game" too. Imho, the league should not pay any retirement health costs of any player who participated in these bounties. I also think that should be just the beginning of the penalties for these players.

BornBrooklyn
03-05-2012, 05:43 PM
Didn't Coughlin want Williams in '04 before hiring Lewis?

burier
03-05-2012, 05:46 PM
only thing I'm gonna say is that from what I've heard the bounty program had nothing to do with dirty/late/illegal hits.</P>


I just don't see the "cheating" aspect that causes this to mentioned with Spygate.</P>


</P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 05:55 PM
When you're the head coach, and GM, you have a responsibility to the owner (s) to win games, and sail a right ship.

Disregarding rules and regulations screws up the works. How in the world can the Saint's owner keep his GM, of all people, knowing he knew what went on, and that it was illegal?

It will probably cost the team hundreds of thousands of dollars how do you not fire him? Examples have to be made, or you're telling the world player safety is a joke.

When does it stop, when a career is over? Do we have another Stingley situation?

The GM knew? I hadn't heard that




NOT ONLY did the GM (Loomis) knew, the owner told him to have it stopped, which he didn't.

WOWWWW

on top of that and basically insulting your superstar QB, that dude needs to go lol


I don't see how they keep him, I really don't. And i'm surprised the Rams haven't let Williams go either. He admitted he's guilty. Keeping him is tantamount to telling everyone they condone what he did. If he did it for the Saints, and now we find out he also did it for a couple / few hears while at the Redskins, why woulnd't he do it again?

because this is more common practice than anybody realizes

I mean unless its found out and confirmed that they were trying to break knees, i think alot of teams have something like that going on.

Like JACKED UP hit of the game or somthing like that.

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 05:55 PM
only thing I'm gonna say is that from what I've heard the bounty program had nothing to do with dirty/late/illegal hits.</p>


I just don't see the "cheating" aspect that causes this to mentioned with Spygate.</p>


</p>


</p>

it scares me that we agree on 2 things today

except for the spygate crap

MattMeyerBud
03-05-2012, 05:58 PM
I think 1 point that many comparing this to the "old" days need to acknowledge is that many of the "old days" players are now the guys sueing the league for lack of healthcare. The long term healthcare risks of football were not really known back then.

When the players or fans make the argument "this is something that had always happened in this league" it undermines the player's desire to have the league foot the bill for their long term healthcare issues that arise from playing this game. If the players are actually rewarding each other for severe injuries, then how can they then turn around and say the league isnt doing enough to protect the players? Many of these ex-players are being hypocrites.

I've seen the league make rule changes and fund research into long term effects of football in an effort to curb risks. Where is the same commitment from the players to each other? I have now read multiple players come out saying thse types of bounty systems are a "part of the game." If the players are gonna be that irresponsible with each other maybe the they should consider their long term healcare costs "part of the game" too. Imho, the league should not pay any retirement health costs of any player who participated in these bounties. I also think that should be just the beginning of the penalties for these players.



no its football..

i think people are hearing "KNOCK A PLAYER OUT OF THE GAME" and just automatically assume it was dirty...

For instance, when Boley broke Romos collarbone, completely legal play, no flag, and that would of won him the bounty the players have between each other. Why is that so bad?

Its what the game is. Violence and hitting. Everybody tried to take the opposing QB out of the game with every hit.

bronxvgiant
03-05-2012, 06:05 PM
I think the Saints will mainly be targeted,even though the Redskins did it too.Brett Favre had his butt handed to him in that title game.I could see that they were playing dirty football a couple years ago,esp.Roman Harper.My dislike for them now has hit an all time high.

Spizi
03-05-2012, 06:10 PM
depends how they knock em out

cheap shot diving at the legs - thats scumbag stuff

giving a guy like Boley a pot of money becuase he cracked Romo's collarbone on a nasty clean hit - im okay with that


holy **** thats fing weatherford?!

BlueSanta
03-05-2012, 06:31 PM
I think 1 point that many comparing this to the "old" days need to acknowledge is that many of the "old days" players are now the guys sueing the league for lack of healthcare. The long term healthcare risks of football were not really known back then.

When the players or fans make the argument "this is something that had always happened in this league" it undermines the player's desire to have the league foot the bill for their long term healthcare issues that arise from playing this game. If the players are actually rewarding each other for severe injuries, then how can they then turn around and say the league isnt doing enough to protect the players? Many of these ex-players are being hypocrites.

I've seen the league make rule changes and fund research into long term effects of football in an effort to curb risks. Where is the same commitment from the players to each other? I have now read multiple players come out saying thse types of bounty systems are a "part of the game." If the players are gonna be that irresponsible with each other maybe the they should consider their long term healcare costs "part of the game" too. Imho, the league should not pay any retirement health costs of any player who participated in these bounties. I also think that should be just the beginning of the penalties for these players.



no its football..

i think people are hearing "KNOCK A PLAYER OUT OF THE GAME" and just automatically assume it was dirty...

For instance, when Boley broke Romos collarbone, completely legal play, no flag, and that would of won him the bounty the players have between each other. Why is that so bad?

Its what the game is. Violence and hitting. Everybody tried to take the opposing QB out of the game with every hit.


What? no

The distinction has been clearly made in the Saints case they were paying for illegal hits(on top of other things). Furthermore, bounty systems of any type are strickly illegal by league rules not just for the possible injury implecations but also the gambling aspects that could potentially arise.

illegal being defined as outside the rules of the game and therefor NOT part of it.


but either way, not sure what hat has to do with the point of my post. If anything it actually strengthened my point that the players are being hypocrites.

BlueSanta
03-05-2012, 06:36 PM
depends how they knock em out

cheap shot diving at the legs - thats scumbag stuff

giving a guy like Boley a pot of money becuase he cracked Romo's collarbone on a nasty clean hit - im okay with that


i can agree with that.

However, my understanding is the the Saints paid a bounty for knocking a player out , legal hit or not.

giantsfan420
03-05-2012, 06:37 PM
I think 1 point that many comparing this to the "old" days need to acknowledge is that many of the "old days" players are now the guys sueing the league for lack of healthcare. The long term healthcare risks of football were not really known back then.

When the players or fans make the argument "this is something that had always happened in this league" it undermines the player's desire to have the league foot the bill for their long term healthcare issues that arise from playing this game. If the players are actually rewarding* each other for severe injuries, then how can they then turn around and say the league isnt doing enough to protect the players? Many of these ex-players are being hypocrites.

I've seen the league make rule changes and fund research into long term effects of football in an effort to curb risks.* Where is the same commitment from the players to each other? I have now read multiple players come out saying thse types of bounty systems are a "part of the game." If the players are gonna be that irresponsible with each other maybe the they should consider their long term healcare costs "part of the game" too. Imho, the league should not pay any retirement health costs of any player who* participated in these bounties. I also think that should be just the beginning of the penalties for these players.
*


no its football..

i think people are hearing "KNOCK A PLAYER OUT OF THE GAME" and just automatically assume it was dirty...

For instance, when Boley broke Romos collarbone, completely legal play, no flag, and that would of won him the bounty the players have between each other. Why is that so bad?

Its what the game is.* Violence and hitting.* Everybody tried to take the opposing QB out of the game with every hit.


What? no

The distinction has been clearly made in the Saints case they were paying for illegal hits(on top of other things).

illegal being defined as outside the rules of the game and therefor NOT part of it.


but either way, not sure what hat has to do with the point of my post. If anything it actually strengthened my point that the players are being hypocrites.



and further, what MMB is saying also goes against what goodell and the nfl want from its players.
even if the saints players weren't trying to injur players (how that could be when they were rewarded for "cart off" hits) they were acting maliciously with intent to hurt. boley's hit wasn't malicious in that he wanted to injure romo, it was just a solid, well formed tackle. that hit was completely in the guidelines, and it wasnt as if boley was thinking "im gonna knock him out right here"...

i find it disgusting to hear of what williams promoted and endorsed, he deserves to be suspended/banned. the game is already violent as it is, he was promoting going the extra yard passed the line.

and i know every hit could technically be defined as malicious, but to me it really depends on the mindset bc football is a physical game. to want to perform to the best of ur ability and use all ur strength in making a tackle, well thats much different than approaching a vulnerable player and thinking "i want to end this guys year"

egyptian420
03-05-2012, 06:43 PM
I think 1 point that many comparing this to the "old" days need to acknowledge is that many of the "old days" players are now the guys sueing the league for lack of healthcare. The long term healthcare risks of football were not really known back then.

When the players or fans make the argument "this is something that had always happened in this league" it undermines the player's desire to have the league foot the bill for their long term healthcare issues that arise from playing this game. If the players are actually rewarding each other for severe injuries, then how can they then turn around and say the league isnt doing enough to protect the players? Many of these ex-players are being hypocrites.

I've seen the league make rule changes and fund research into long term effects of football in an effort to curb risks. Where is the same commitment from the players to each other? I have now read multiple players come out saying thse types of bounty systems are a "part of the game." If the players are gonna be that irresponsible with each other maybe the they should consider their long term healcare costs "part of the game" too. Imho, the league should not pay any retirement health costs of any player who participated in these bounties. I also think that should be just the beginning of the penalties for these players.



no its football..

i think people are hearing "KNOCK A PLAYER OUT OF THE GAME" and just automatically assume it was dirty...

For instance, when Boley broke Romos collarbone, completely legal play, no flag, and that would of won him the bounty the players have between each other. Why is that so bad?

Its what the game is. Violence and hitting. Everybody tried to take the opposing QB out of the game with every hit.


What? no

The distinction has been clearly made in the Saints case they were paying for illegal hits(on top of other things).

illegal being defined as outside the rules of the game and therefor NOT part of it.


but either way, not sure what hat has to do with the point of my post. If anything it actually strengthened my point that the players are being hypocrites.


I agree....I think what the Saints did was more than illegal.
1)They had coaches involved that were supporting this and contributing to the pot of cash
2)They had non-employees of the NFL also funding this (which breaks the CBA rule and even the IRS
3) They were warned about it and did nothing
4) This is a baaaad time for this, the league is very strict when it comes to player safety in recent times

ghwriter1976
03-05-2012, 06:56 PM
All of this ties in very well with what Williams was saying during Media Week before Super Bowl XLIV. If you guys have seen their America's Game special, they play an audio clip of Williams talking about giving Peyton Manning a few "remember me shots."

I wonder how much each "remember me shot" was worth.

NYGRealityCheck
03-05-2012, 07:47 PM
Back in the days when these "player safety" penalites didn't exist, players delivered punishment cause it was their interpretation of defense or they wanted to, no bounty system was involved.

Lawrence Taylor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWo4KTOcHS0&feature=related

Jack Tatum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJrDYQwwbuY

D. Butkus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pN17DwChuQ&feature=related

Joe Morrison
03-05-2012, 08:12 PM
Don't we remember who started it with Buddy Ball.</P>


It was simple, take the guy who was going to be your biggest problem and make sure he knew he was in a dog fight, don't know if Buddy ever offered a bonus for taking a guy out but he knew you had to keep that guy from killing you.</P>


If the Saints were offering bonus money that is where they stepped over the line.</P>


Afterall, doesn't it always come down to money!</P>

njsean
03-05-2012, 08:49 PM
What I don't get is that if what the Saints was doing was so insidious, where are all the injuries they've piled up through the years?

Outside of the Vikes game, there really aren't many instances that spring to mind where the Saints were taking people out.

I mean, we had a stretch in 2010 where we were only winning games it seems where the opposing QB didn't finish the game.

Not saying we were dirty, but at least people could look at that. What have the Saints done?

BParcells777
03-05-2012, 08:51 PM
Its a mans game played by REAL men

Tell me why I should care about side bets?

If you go head hunting, you will quickly become the hunted........the Jungle will exact its own punishment

Years ago the 49rs hit Phil Simms with a cheap shot.........knocked him silly........
on the very next possession Jim Burt nearly cut Joe Montana in two

The hit was so viscous you could watch it in slo mo and it still was a blur

Joe went right to the Hospital for Special Surgery, and there were whispers he might be dead........teams that play these games are dancing with the devil

RoanokeFan
03-05-2012, 09:33 PM
I think 1 point that many comparing this to the "old" days need to acknowledge is that many of the "old days" players are now the guys sueing the league for lack of healthcare. The long term healthcare risks of football were not really known back then.

When the players or fans make the argument "this is something that had always happened in this league" it undermines the player's desire to have the league foot the bill for their long term healthcare issues that arise from playing this game. If the players are actually rewarding each other for severe injuries, then how can they then turn around and say the league isnt doing enough to protect the players? Many of these ex-players are being hypocrites.

I've seen the league make rule changes and fund research into long term effects of football in an effort to curb risks. Where is the same commitment from the players to each other? I have now read multiple players come out saying thse types of bounty systems are a "part of the game." If the players are gonna be that irresponsible with each other maybe the they should consider their long term healcare costs "part of the game" too. Imho, the league should not pay any retirement health costs of any player who participated in these bounties. I also think that should be just the beginning of the penalties for these players.



no its football..

i think people are hearing "KNOCK A PLAYER OUT OF THE GAME" and just automatically assume it was dirty...

For instance, when Boley broke Romos collarbone, completely legal play, no flag, and that would of won him the bounty the players have between each other. Why is that so bad?

Its what the game is. Violence and hitting. Everybody tried to take the opposing QB out of the game with every hit.



I'm surprised you feel this way, MMB. In the first instance, it's a violation of NFL rules if all of the reports indicating that are correct. To me, going after the QB or any player is fair game within the rules of the game. But placing a "bounty" on the health of another player is over the line. The mere fact that a bounty system was used infers "by any means possible."

I think the NFL is violent enough without the need to incentivize millionaires with thousands of dollars to do what they are supposed to do in the first place. If it was harmless and not intended to put someone "out", why not just put it into the CBA? Some former players have acknowledged the process exists and insist in the same sentence they aren't trying to hurt the target player when the do it! HELLO?????

Going to a loan shark is not a problem until you miss a payment....

As a rule of thumb, if you have to whisper about something, it's probably not something you'd want to be caught doing.

We'll see soon enough what the penalties are. I heard on SIRIUS this evening talk about one of the other coaches on the Rams being able to fill in for Williams. I don't know if they are privy to any information, but it sounded like a hint of things to come.

Then there is also the talk about the IRS being interested in this unearned income.

It will certainly be interesting to see where all of this leads.

alau53
03-05-2012, 09:48 PM
It's all apart of the game. Football is a violent sport for all of those who forgot the memo. I happen to think that this kind of stuff goes on in every single locker room in the NFL to some sort of degree. The NFL has to be concerned about the legal ramifications though. Players are now going to come out of the woodworks to sue because they will claim that their careers ended or were ruined against any of those teams Gregg Williams coached. I played football in high school (Al Bundy voice) and there were certainly incentives for knocking someone out of the box.</P>


I don't think it happens in every locker room. Now if were talking about back in the day? I would bet it happened* more so then not. </P>


When NFL players were not getting paid as well as they were in todays standard. They had to do whatever possible to make a little extra money. And what better way to make it by knocking out an opponent. </P>


Remember this play in 86. </P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTLlaMY_9PM</P>


Charles Martin knocking out McMahon. It was completely dirty and there must have been some sort of insentives for that to happen. </P>


Just ask players like Jack Lambert, Ray Nitschke, **** Butkus to name a few*if during there careers they were not trying to kill the opposing players. They may have not been compensated for it, but they did there best to take the opposing player out by any means necessary.</P>

from the youtube game of 1986 thats old ref jerry m. who still a ref over 25 yrs later..i think he refed giants /niners nfc championship game

JJC7301
03-05-2012, 10:17 PM
Then let it go league wide and let the chips fall where they may. Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

GameTime
03-06-2012, 09:43 AM
i don't see this investigation being limited toGreg Williams, since i believe from everything i'm hearing that most,if not, all teams did these "side bets" which kinda annoys me, because where is this going to end ... i don't want our players/coaches being asked questions about what went on in our Super Bowl winning locker room ... i could just see "former Giant reveals locker room bets" ... i hope they just make an example out of the Saints and Williams and re-emphasize the existing policy or enhance that policy</P>


it should be a league wide investigation. If the Giants or any other team is involved then they deserve to be found out and dealt with. </P>

burier
03-06-2012, 10:40 AM
only thing I'm gonna say is that from what I've heard the bounty program had nothing to do with dirty/late/illegal hits.</p>


I just don't see the "cheating" aspect that causes this to mentioned with Spygate.</p>


*</p>


*</p>

it scares me that we agree on 2 things today

except for the spygate crap


Ok I'll bite.

So what makes Spygate crap?

MattMeyerBud
03-06-2012, 10:43 AM
only thing I'm gonna say is that from what I've heard the bounty program had nothing to do with dirty/late/illegal hits.</p>


I just don't see the "cheating" aspect that causes this to mentioned with Spygate.</p>


</p>


</p>

it scares me that we agree on 2 things today

except for the spygate crap


Ok I'll bite.

So what makes Spygate crap?

we've had this conversation before

burier
03-06-2012, 10:44 AM
only thing I'm gonna say is that from what I've heard the bounty program had nothing to do with dirty/late/illegal hits.</p>


I just don't see the "cheating" aspect that causes this to mentioned with Spygate.</p>


*</p>


*</p>

it scares me that we agree on 2 things today

except for the spygate crap


Ok I'll bite.

So what makes Spygate crap?

we've had this conversation before


lol I know...I thought I was pretty damn convincing.

MattMeyerBud
03-06-2012, 10:47 AM
only thing I'm gonna say is that from what I've heard the bounty program had nothing to do with dirty/late/illegal hits.</p>


I just don't see the "cheating" aspect that causes this to mentioned with Spygate.</p>


</p>


</p>

it scares me that we agree on 2 things today

except for the spygate crap


Ok I'll bite.

So what makes Spygate crap?

we've had this conversation before


lol I know...I thought I was pretty damn convincing.

hahaha na, I just don't think it gains the advantage as much as u suggest. Especially since at half time a team basically redoes their whole game plan

burier
03-06-2012, 11:17 AM
only thing I'm gonna say is that from what I've heard the bounty program had nothing to do with dirty/late/illegal hits.</p>


I just don't see the "cheating" aspect that causes this to mentioned with Spygate.</p>


*</p>


*</p>

it scares me that we agree on 2 things today

except for the spygate crap


Ok I'll bite.

So what makes Spygate crap?

we've had this conversation before


lol I know...I thought I was pretty damn convincing.

hahaha na, I just don't think it gains the advantage as much as u suggest. Especially since at half time a team basically redoes their whole game plan


Ok since I know Im right on this one...and I know your judgement is clouded by some love you have for Belichick I'll just offer a bit of logic for you to chew on.

After...after...after Spygate where heavy fines were handed out. (Actually the maximum allowable fine was handed out to Bill) Josh McDaniels perpatrated Spygate part 2.

So logically if filming signals doesn't offer a significant advantage why do it?

But more importantly why do it knowing how drastic the the consequences will be if you get caught?

Its risking draft picks, money and in Josh's case his Job for something that doesn't offer a real advantage?

Logically..../thread

G-Man67
03-06-2012, 03:40 PM
well until they produce some clear example of a player, let's sayin a game that was already decided, that took some non-football action that led to an injury and then the payment was maybe captured on a film or phone cam at a team meeting, i'm still taking the position that "bounty"is just a word for go out and hit the other team, especially the QB,as hard as you can ... and i hope my players always do that even without extra incentive&lt;P&gt;</P>


with Spygate, they showed the filming of signals, so that was pretty cut and dry ... really the only defence could be that these signals were visable and the film only aided in remembering them&lt;P&gt;</P>

slipknottin
03-06-2012, 03:44 PM
Giants have said they have a system where whoever sacks the QB gets paid.

But it has nothing to do with injuring players.

slipknottin
03-06-2012, 03:45 PM
well until they produce some clear example of a player, let's say*in a game was already decided, that took some non-football action that led to an injury and then the payment was maybe captured on a film or phone cam at a team meeting, i'm still taking the position that "bounty" was just a word for go out and hit the other team, especially the QB,*as hard as you can ... and i hope my players always do that even without extra incentive

</P>


with Spygate, they showed the filming of signals, so that was pretty cut and dry ... really the only defence could be that these signals were visable and the film only aided in remembering them

</P>

How about the saints leading the league in roughness penalties the past two seasons?

G-Man67
03-06-2012, 03:58 PM
well until they produce some clear example of a player, let's sayin a game was already decided, that took some non-football action that led to an injury and then the payment was maybe captured on a film or phone cam at a team meeting, i'm still taking the position that "bounty" was just a word for go out and hit the other team, especially the QB,as hard as you can ... and i hope my players always do that even without extra incentive


</P>


with Spygate, they showed the filming of signals, so that was pretty cut and dry ... really the only defence could be that these signals were visable and the film only aided in remembering them


</P>


How about the saints leading the league in roughness penalties the past two seasons?</P>


yeah i hear ya, but are there any stats on which team caused the most injuries ... i'm not defending them or not meaning too, but as an old school football fan ... i understand the importance of being a physical, intimidating team</P>


when we beat the Bills in the Super Bowl, a big part of that was how hard we punished the WRs coming over the middle ... if our defensive coaches were saying ... play right to the edge ... well i wouldnt have a problem with that ... i would think, great strategy</P>

slipknottin
03-06-2012, 04:14 PM
yeah i hear ya, but are there any stats on which team caused the most injuries ... i'm not defending them or not meaning too, but as an old school football fan ... i understand the importance of being a physical, intimidating team

The league didnt produce a 50,000 page report and include no evidence that the saints were trying to hurt people....

I think you're missing the boat here.

G-Man67
03-06-2012, 04:39 PM
yeah i hear ya, but are there any stats on which team caused the most injuries ... i'm not defending them or not meaning too, but as an old school football fan ... i understand the importance of being a physical, intimidating team The league didnt produce a 50,000 page report and include no evidence that the saints were trying to hurt people.... I think you're missing the boat here.</P>


well lawyers, you know :) ... you or i doing a 10 page essay is equal to lawyers cranking out 50K pages, but yeah i do hear what you are saying ... all that evidence ... and the fact that it dates back to 2009 and that it was ordered to be stopped and wasn't</P>


i guess i just don't want anything tocome out negative aboutour Giants ... everything is great now ... also, i love the NFL and i don't want people saying the NFL is barbaric or that the Giants just won the Super Bowl and are now the #1 Barbarians in the land ... listen, i have no love for the Saints, but it's a story that i could have done without ... i respect Goodell, but he seems to have an agenda that isn't always consistent with the NFL that i fell in love ... i just wish there was a way to protect the players with better equipment and better medical care and still preserve the physical nature of the sport</P>

slipknottin
03-06-2012, 04:54 PM
I dont understand what Goodell has to do with this story?

G-Man67
03-06-2012, 05:04 PM
I dont understand what Goodell has to do with this story?</P>


well meaning that he has marching orders to try to reduce the liability the NFL is facing from former players that are suing the NFL for injuries, etc. ... remember it is always about money ... the NFL ignored things b/c the fans wanted to watch a physical game ... now that the NFL is mega-popular, they can scale things back a bit and not lose fans and maybe reduce their liability to former players suing ... it's always about the almighty $$$$</P>

THE_New_York_Giants
03-06-2012, 05:18 PM
It's really funny going to the Saints board and seeing how they defend the bounties. TBH, I couldn't give a rats *** if there are bounties, as long as they count against the salary cap.

bearbryant
03-06-2012, 06:15 PM
This could become a very sticky situation for all the teams. listening to then talking heads on NFL network today, it became obvious that there is not going to be a complete and ultimate statement denying the existence of this happening. So everyone is fair game for this story, God! Even the current players like DD, Mother Fletcher, Sapp, etc.. they all seemed to agree that even though " they" never got paid to take someone out of the game, that they did get "paid" for making stops down in the red zone, etc. Bottom line it will become a question of semantics and unless someone is on the wire, its all going to be " He said, She said", no proof no crime. But someone will fall on there sword for this one, you can make book on that!! How about Williams? Sound good?

The good thing is that TC and Co. are squeaky clean and its times like this I'm happy to be a fan of a franchise that has deep " character"!