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bELIeve_in_Giants
03-08-2012, 12:12 PM
<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/MikeGarafolo" data-user-id="12513132"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Mike Garafolo[/b]
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<p class="js-tweet-text">Looks like Eli Manning did a simple
restructuring of his contract to lower his base this season by about
$9m. Checking it out now. <s>#</s>nyg (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23nyg)</p>

Itlan
03-08-2012, 12:14 PM
#ALLIN

Eli isn't stupid. He knows he needs his pieces, that being Nicks and Cruz. We should be good with the cap once the TV deal hits in 2014. GO BLUE!

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 12:15 PM
Eli is the man, I'm glad all those years of defending him have come to fruition, there is literally no other QB in the league I'd rather have leading our team.

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 12:17 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-08-2012, 12:18 PM
<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
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<p class="js-tweet-text">Also according to NFLPA records, Eli Manning's 2012 salary dropped from $10.75M to $1.75M. That could create some cap room ... <s>#</s>NYG (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23NYG)</p>

Itlan
03-08-2012, 12:20 PM
I think it saves about 2 million.

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-08-2012, 12:21 PM
<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
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[/list]

<p class="js-tweet-text">His cap number is now $9.6M for this
season, which is nearly $7M less than it was. ... It balloons to over
$20M next year, though. <s>#</s>NYG (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23NYG)</p>

kbusch22
03-08-2012, 12:24 PM
Yeah, this will be a huge help for this year. Next year though, look for a LOT of cuts to be made because all of the money Eli has restructured is going to start to pile up.

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 12:25 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
</P>


Can you imagine if he refused?</P>

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 12:30 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
</p>


Can you imagine if he refused?</p>

after cementing himself as the best QB in NYG history...yeah he had every right to if he wanted to...I wouldn't have gave him crap.

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 12:32 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
</P>


Can you imagine if he refused?</P>




after cementing himself as the best QB in NYG history...yeah he had every right to if he wanted to...I wouldn't have gave him crap.
</P>


As I said in Thee thread, Eli is certainly a great guy and a great teammate. But restructures like this are almost always good for the player, as long as he continues to have a long term place on the team.</P>


The team probably had to give something to get something.</P>

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 12:32 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )


Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

Sanntee31
03-08-2012, 12:33 PM
Good, now B.Jacobs can shut up, take note &amp; follow suit!!

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 12:34 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
</p>


Can you imagine if he refused?</p>

na i can't, because if he refused we prob wouldn't of known he refused.

and if he we did, im pretty sure after nabbing his second superbowl and restructuring last year we would of all been okay with it.

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 12:35 PM
Good, now B.Jacobs can shut up, take note & follow suit!!

Jacobs is being asked to take a multi million dollar paycut, Eli is getting basically getting an advance paycheck. Not exactly apples and oranges.

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 12:35 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )


Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 12:38 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )


Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year


The cut in base salary is all going to signing bonus. He's making the exact same amount, just sooner.

egyptian420
03-08-2012, 12:38 PM
My question is, how badly will this screw up our cap for next year? Things like this scare me:

<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
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<span class="username js-action-profile-name"><s>@</s>TheBlueScreen</span></a>
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<span class="separator"></span><span class="open-tweet" title="Open Tweet"></span> (https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen/status/177790258912567296)His cap number is now $9.6M for this
season, which is nearly $7M less than it was. ... It balloons to over
$20M next year, though. <s>#</s>NYG (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23NYG)
[/list]

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 12:39 PM
Good, now B.Jacobs can shut up, take note &amp; follow suit!! Jacobs is being asked to take a multi million dollar paycut, Eli is getting basically getting an advance paycheck. Not exactly apples and oranges.</P>


BJ took an actual "paycut" last season. He did it for the team in order to sign Bradshaw. Nothing selfish about that. His reward was to either take another huge paycut or GET cut.</P>


I'm sure he would do it over again because we won a SB. The guys that knock BJ are way off base.</P>

bLuereverie
03-08-2012, 12:40 PM
Even if his future hits balloon, he is obviously someone who we intend on extending at 2015 if not earlier.

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 12:40 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year
The cut in base salary is all going to signing bonus. He's making the exact same amount, just sooner.</P>


I doubt that. Signing bonuses go against the cap in the year they are paid. I'm sure the team has postponed AND raised his guaranteed money after this season.</P>

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 12:42 PM
My question is, how badly will this screw up our cap for next year? Things like this scare me:

<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
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<span class="username js-action-profile-name"><s>@</s>TheBlueScreen</span></a>
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<span class="separator"></span><span class="open-tweet" title="Open Tweet"></span> (https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen/status/177790258912567296)His cap number is now $9.6M for this
season, which is nearly $7M less than it was. ... It balloons to over
$20M next year, though. <s>#</s>NYG (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23NYG)
[/list]

Costs us about $2 mil per year in cap space through 2015.

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 12:44 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year
The cut in base salary is all going to signing bonus. He's making the exact same amount, just sooner.</P>


I doubt that.* Signing bonuses go against the cap in the year they are paid.* I'm sure the team has postponed AND raised his guaranteed money after this season.</P>


Per NFL Players Association records, the Giants guaranteed $9 million of Manning's $10.75-million base salary for the 2012 season, which allows the team to spread the cap hit over the remaining four years of his contract. Manning's new base salary is $1.75 million.

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 12:46 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year
The cut in base salary is all going to signing bonus. He's making the exact same amount, just sooner.</P>


I doubt that. Signing bonuses go against the cap in the year they are paid. I'm sure the team has postponed AND raised his guaranteed money after this season.</P>



Per NFL Players Association records, the Giants guaranteed $9 million of Manning's $10.75-million base salary for the 2012 season, which allows the team to spread the cap hit over the remaining four years of his contract. Manning's new base salary is $1.75 million.</P>


You can only spread the cap hit on a bonus if you spread the payment of the bonus.</P>

bLuereverie
03-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Take the 9million, divide it by the # of seasons agreed upon to disperse it, and that becomes the added salary hits to each year.

As for the actual money itself, I believe Manning gets it paid right away, it just doesn't show on the cap.

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 12:50 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year
The cut in base salary is all going to signing bonus. He's making the exact same amount, just sooner.</P>


I doubt that.* Signing bonuses go against the cap in the year they are paid.* I'm sure the team has postponed AND raised his guaranteed money after this season.</P>



Per NFL Players Association records, the Giants guaranteed $9 million of Manning's $10.75-million base salary for the 2012 season, which allows the team to spread the cap hit over the remaining four years of his contract. Manning's new base salary is $1.75 million.</P>


You can only spread the cap hit on a bonus if you spread the payment of the bonus.</P>

Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that before.

Antwuan
03-08-2012, 12:50 PM
Anyone know the exact cap number with this happening?

Major props to Eli Manning for this he is a team player and a class act.

Sanntee31
03-08-2012, 12:53 PM
Good, now B.Jacobs can shut up, take note &amp; follow suit!! Jacobs is being asked to take a multi million dollar paycut, Eli is getting basically getting an advance paycheck. Not exactly apples and oranges.</P>


BJ took an actual "paycut" last season. He did it for the team in order to sign Bradshaw. Nothing selfish about that. His reward was to either take another huge paycut or GET cut.</P>


I'm sure he would do it over again because we won a SB. The guys that knock BJ are way off base.</P>


</P>


Right, he did and Im not mad at him for it. What Im saying is his production vs his pay and what he feels his worthyness vs his actual value is. (Granted the O-Line (or lack there of) had a role to play in his drop in production as well)</P>

ralphpal
03-08-2012, 12:59 PM
It sounds great but unless he keeps doing it then it is going to hurt us in the long run. I would rather eat a big part of cap space this year and free up some cap space in 2013 . It so hard to repeat as Champs that i think it is better to get under the cap in year 2013-2014
We need Nicks and if Cruz does what he did last year then him also
The next 3 years after this Eli cap space is close to 20 million dollars every year . How does this help us in those years ? If he keeps doing this then that is great . If not or you cant by league rules then it is going to backfire

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 12:59 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year
The cut in base salary is all going to signing bonus. He's making the exact same amount, just sooner.</P>


I doubt that. Signing bonuses go against the cap in the year they are paid. I'm sure the team has postponed AND raised his guaranteed money after this season.</P>



Per NFL Players Association records, the Giants guaranteed $9 million of Manning's $10.75-million base salary for the 2012 season, which allows the team to spread the cap hit over the remaining four years of his contract. Manning's new base salary is $1.75 million.</P>


You can only spread the cap hit on a bonus if you spread the payment of the bonus.</P>


Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that before.</P>


I just looked it up and I stand corrected. I didn't realize you could pay someone up front and efer it over the length of the contract. I knew that if you cut someone the entire bonus remaining goes against this years cap number.</P>


But really my poin is made. Eli is gaining from this deal.</P>

egyptian420
03-08-2012, 01:00 PM
My question is, how badly will this screw up our cap for next year? Things like this scare me:

<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
<span>?</span>
<span class="username js-action-profile-name"><s>@</s>TheBlueScreen</span></a>
<ul class="actions js-actions"><li class="action-open-container">
<span class="separator"></span><span class="open-tweet" title="Open Tweet"></span> (https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen/status/177790258912567296)His cap number is now $9.6M for this
season, which is nearly $7M less than it was. ... It balloons to over
$20M next year, though. <s>#</s>NYG (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23NYG)
[/list]

Costs us about $2 mil per year in cap space through 2015.
Thanks....just after I asked that question I seen this:
<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">
Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
<span>?</span>
<span class="username js-action-profile-name"><s>@</s>TheBlueScreen</span></a>
Eli's restructure doesn't kill the Giants
in future years. It adds $2.25M to his cap number in each of the next
three seasons. That's all.

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 01:04 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year
The cut in base salary is all going to signing bonus. He's making the exact same amount, just sooner.</P>


I doubt that.* Signing bonuses go against the cap in the year they are paid.* I'm sure the team has postponed AND raised his guaranteed money after this season.</P>



Per NFL Players Association records, the Giants guaranteed $9 million of Manning's $10.75-million base salary for the 2012 season, which allows the team to spread the cap hit over the remaining four years of his contract. Manning's new base salary is $1.75 million.</P>


You can only spread the cap hit on a bonus if you spread the payment of the bonus.</P>


Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that before.</P>


I just looked it up and I stand corrected.* I didn't realize you could pay someone up front and efer it over the length of the contract.* I knew that if you cut someone the entire bonus remaining goes against this years cap number.</P>


But really my poin is made.* Eli is gaining from this deal.</P>

Exactly. People seem to get confused by the fact that Brandon Jacobs ripping up his deal and signing for a quarter of the price and Eli getting guaranteed money up front is both called "restructuring", but they are really two COMPLETELY different things.

giantman8493
03-08-2012, 01:05 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 01:08 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....</P>


Thanks for your contribution.</P>

bLuereverie
03-08-2012, 01:08 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Have you been deaf to this thing called bountygate lately? Circumventing the cap is serious with both the league and union.

GMENAGAIN
03-08-2012, 01:09 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.</P>


+100</P>


He's taking the $9M difference as a guaranteed bonus rather than as "salary" . . . . he dopesn't lose a dime. </P>

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-08-2012, 01:10 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Have you been deaf to this thing called bountygate lately? Circumventing the cap is serious with both the league and union.

Not to mention the IRS

giantman8493
03-08-2012, 01:10 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Have you been deaf to this thing called bountygate lately? Circumventing the cap is serious with both the league and union.Im not talking about bounties at all. It is serious in NCAA yet happens all the time.

giantsfan420
03-08-2012, 01:10 PM
we should be under the cap with this move by eli. we were about 6 mil over, now that he saved us 9 mil to the cap, we techincally should be 3 mil under, right?

this guy is the epitome of winning, success, team first, teammate, leader, mvp, clutch, champion...best qb in the nfl hands down in my book.


now we can get the WR we want, sign a TE, and add to the team through the draft...

giantman8493
03-08-2012, 01:11 PM
Your welcome. I know it is a great idea. I only hope this idea trickles up to upper management.

TheEnigma
03-08-2012, 01:13 PM
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

bLuereverie
03-08-2012, 01:14 PM
we should be under the cap with this move by eli. we were about 6 mil over, now that he saved us 9 mil to the cap, we techincally should be 3 mil under, right?

this guy is the epitome of winning, success, team first, teammate, leader, mvp, clutch, champion...best qb in the nfl hands down in my book.


now we can get the WR we want, sign a TE, and add to the team through the draft...

He saves us roughly 6.7 million as some of that base still applies to this year.

Does anyone know when the actual established 2012 salary cap is announced to teams? Free agency is in a few days.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 01:15 PM
Good, now B.Jacobs can shut up, take note &amp; follow suit!!

What's your problem with Jacobs? He restructured last year and is willing to restructure again this year. He's not willing to give his time away.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 01:17 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage [8-)]

giantsfan420
03-08-2012, 01:18 PM
we should be under the cap with this move by eli. we were about 6 mil over, now that he saved us 9 mil to the cap, we techincally should be 3 mil under, right?

this guy is the epitome of winning, success, team first, teammate, leader, mvp, clutch, champion...best qb in the nfl hands down in my book.


now we can get the WR we want, sign a TE, and add to the team through the draft...

He saves us roughly 6.7 million as some of that base still applies to this year.

Does anyone know when the actual established 2012 salary cap is announced to teams? Free agency is in a few days.

i believe it will be announced when FA starts...not sure.

and about the cap space he saves us, if rolle and or canty does what eli did, we'll actually have quite a bit of room. enough to sign our own FA's that reese wants, plus a few good FA players.

I expect this team to be even better from top to bottom next season, which is going to be scary. if we can get a solid wr (smith) and draft fleener...our offense will be dominant.

then we could just add bpa in the draft and really just have a stacked roster...how does reese do it?

giantman8493
03-08-2012, 01:18 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage* [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-08-2012, 01:20 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.

Players and coaches get cut/fired all of the time. Sets up lots of people to be disgruntled. Better stay on the books.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 01:21 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.

Here's the thing. Once you share a secret........

giantman8493
03-08-2012, 01:21 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage* [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.

Players and coaches get cut/fired all of the time.* Sets up lots of people to be disgruntled.* Better stay on the books.
Thats what pension packages are for.

TheEnigma
03-08-2012, 01:21 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage* [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.The Troll is strong with this one.

giantman8493
03-08-2012, 01:25 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage* [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.The Troll is strong with this one.Is ever one that has a great idea a troll? or just me?

TheEnigma
03-08-2012, 01:31 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage* [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.The Troll is strong with this one.Is ever one that has a great idea a troll? or just me?Alrighty. Let's entertain the notion that you are in fact being serious. Do you realize how big the backlash would be if the most successful team in the last 5 years was caught cheating with the cap, especially a New York team? Are you also a fan of losing draft picks which is what this team has been built on for years? And don't forget that with any 52 man roster, there tends to be quite a few loud mouthed fools who could potentially slip out the secret or you have disgruntled coaches/players cut who then talk to Goodell about it.

The risk outweighs the reward.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 01:31 PM
we should be under the cap with this move by eli. we were about 6 mil over, now that he saved us 9 mil to the cap, we techincally should be 3 mil under, right?

this guy is the epitome of winning, success, team first, teammate, leader, mvp, clutch, champion...best qb in the nfl hands down in my book.


now we can get the WR we want, sign a TE, and add to the team through the draft...

He saves us roughly 6.7 million as some of that base still applies to this year.

Does anyone know when the actual established 2012 salary cap is announced to teams? Free agency is in a few days.

Here's a excerpt from a recent article:

"According to two sources who
saw the terms of the restructuring, Manning was due a salary of $10.75 million
in 2012. The Giants converted $9 million of that into a guarantee, lowering his
base salary to $1.75 million. Itís not known if they paid him the money up front
(like a signing bonus) or simply guaranteed it. Either way, he still gets all
$10.75 million, but for salary cap purposes the team is now able to spread $9
million of it over the final four seasons of his contract.

That means,
instead of counting for $16.35 million against the 2012 salary cap, Manning now
counts for just $9.6 million. However, it increases his cap number by $2.25
million in each of the final three years of his deal.

The actual
salaries of Manningís final three seasons appear to be untouched. Heís still
scheduled to make $13 million in 2013, $15.15 million in 2014 and $17 million in
2015, just in base salaries alone. His cap numbers for those years are now
$20.85 million (in 2013), $20.4 million (in 2014) and $19.75 million (in
2015)."

lamas
03-08-2012, 01:36 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.The Troll is strong with this one.Is ever one that has a great idea a troll? or just me?

Can't we be a little more creative than a bag full of $?



<font color="#ff0000">Jacobs gets a $1M endorsement from Verizon and
does a couple commercials and Giants ask for $1M less for the stadium
sponsorship.



</font>Problem solved.



By the way, the commercial is Jacobs running over the Verizon guy and asking if he can hear him now.

giantman8493
03-08-2012, 01:38 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage* [8-)]
As long as no one here squeals... they'll never catch us.The Troll is strong with this one.Is ever one that has a great idea a troll? or just me?Alrighty. Let's entertain the notion that you are in fact being serious. Do you realize how big the backlash would be if the most successful team in the last 5 years was caught cheating with the cap, especially a New York team? Are you also a fan of losing draft picks which is what this team has been built on for years? And don't forget that with any 52 man roster, there tends to be quite a few loud mouthed fools who could potentially slip out the secret or you have disgruntled coaches/players cut who then talk to Goodell about it.

The risk outweighs the reward.I understand all that. I am not suggesting giving it to every players.with Guys like Eli Manning though i feel like we can do that. He never says anything that would hurt us.

NJGIANTinNC
03-08-2012, 01:38 PM
Didn't Peyton restructure a number of times for cap space?
And the Colts released him before paying him 28mill?

I guess what I'm asking is the 28 mill roster bonus so high because of restructuring?

If so that's kind of shady on the Colts. I know you can't predict injury, or getting the #1 pick. But that is $the he more than earned.

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-08-2012, 01:41 PM
Didn't Peyton restructure a number of times for cap space?
And the Colts released him before paying him 28mill?

I guess what I'm asking is the 28 mill roster bonus so high because of restructuring?

If so that's kind of shady on the Colts. I know you can't predict injury, or getting the #1 pick. But that is $the he more than earned.

Peyton insisted on that so the colts wouldn't go broke if it turned out he couldn't play anymore and needed a way to cut him. I don't think he anticipated that they would go 2-14 and exercise it at a time that he looks to be coming back.

NJ10
03-08-2012, 01:48 PM
Thank You Eli!!! Love this guy, he is all about the team. Now let go get another F'ing Championship.

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 01:48 PM
we should be under the cap with this move by eli. we were about 6 mil over, now that he saved us 9 mil to the cap, we techincally should be 3 mil under, right? this guy is the epitome of winning, success, team first, teammate, leader, mvp, clutch, champion...best qb in the nfl hands down in my book. now we can get the WR we want, sign a TE, and add to the team through the draft...</P>


Again, he did nothing that wasn't in his interest.</P>


Secondly, I doubt we will sign a WR in the FA market. TE is a possibility but I think even thats less than 50/50 unless its really on the cheap.</P>

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 01:51 PM
Thank You Eli!!! Love this guy, he is all about the team. Now let go get another F'ing Championship.
</P>


Again...you guys are being silly. There is no doubt that Eli is a great guy and a great teammate, but this move was IN HIS INTEREST. He didn't do anything noble. </P>


If he read some of these posts he'ds be laughing. He didn't take a pay cut. He gave up something to get something.</P>

Redeyejedi
03-08-2012, 01:55 PM
Wow with his cap numbers like this the Giants are screwed trying to resign Nicks,Cruz ,JPP.

Redeyejedi
03-08-2012, 01:59 PM
Maybe they will rip up his old contract and give him a new deal after this season. The Giants are going to be hard pressed to keep players with those numbers

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-08-2012, 02:01 PM
Wow with his cap numbers like this the Giants are screwed trying to resign Nicks,Cruz ,JPP.

What are you talking about? They just lowered the cap by $7 million this year and the cap hit only goes up by 2.5 million each of the next few years.

yatitle
03-08-2012, 02:01 PM
Thank You Eli!!! Love this guy, he is all about the team. Now let go get another F'ing Championship.
</P>


Again...you guys are being silly.* There is no doubt that Eli is a great guy and a great teammate, but this move was IN HIS INTEREST.* He didn't do anything noble.* </P>


If he read some of these posts he'ds be laughing.* He didn't take a pay cut.* He gave up something to get something.</P>

Damn we need some "noble" guys in the lockerrrom. Guys who drink beer DURING the games.

NJ10
03-08-2012, 02:04 PM
Thank You Eli!!! Love this guy, he is all about the team. Now let go get another F'ing Championship.
</p>


Again...you guys are being silly. There is no doubt that Eli is a great guy and a great teammate, but this move was IN HIS INTEREST. He didn't do anything noble. </p>


If he read some of these posts he'ds be laughing. He didn't take a pay cut. He gave up something to get something.</p>

Yeah I get that he gets that money over the length of his contract, but at least it gave us some breathing room for this upcoming season.

Why are we always over the damn cap?

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 02:04 PM
Thank You Eli!!! Love this guy, he is all about the team. Now let go get another F'ing Championship.
</p>


Again...you guys are being silly. There is no doubt that Eli is a great guy and a great teammate, but this move was IN HIS INTEREST. He didn't do anything noble. </p>


If he read some of these posts he'ds be laughing. He didn't take a pay cut. He gave up something to get something.</p>

Damn we need some "noble" guys in the lockerrrom. Guys who drink beer DURING the games.

http://diapersanddivinity.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/post-it-award.jpg

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 02:06 PM
Thank You Eli!!! Love this guy, he is all about the team. Now let go get another F'ing Championship.
</p>


Again...you guys are being silly. There is no doubt that Eli is a great guy and a great teammate, but this move was IN HIS INTEREST. He didn't do anything noble. </p>


If he read some of these posts he'ds be laughing. He didn't take a pay cut. He gave up something to get something.</p>

Yeah I get that he gets that money over the length of his contract, but at least it gave us some breathing room for this upcoming season.

Why are we always over the damn cap?


when you have a stacked team at nearly ever position, draft as insanely good as we do, and then the cap drops by 10 mil on you - it leads to a cap problem. But in sense, its a good problem to have cuz it means you've been doing something right

FDNY Fitzy
03-08-2012, 02:10 PM
Eli is awesome. Such a selfless thing to do.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 02:24 PM
Wow with his cap numbers like this the Giants are screwed trying to resign Nicks,Cruz ,JPP.

Why?

ny06
03-08-2012, 02:28 PM
Wow with his cap numbers like this the Giants are screwed trying to resign Nicks,Cruz ,JPP.

Why?
</P>


He's being over dramatic. </P>


If anyone really thinks the Giants will let Nicks, Cruz and JPP go they are nuts...</P>


A general managers job is to keep the core of talented young players and build through the draft. Reese has done that and thensome. </P>


One step at a time, can't think about few years from now. </P>

LT_was_good
03-08-2012, 02:34 PM
Eli is awesome. Such a selfless thing to do.

Lol.

I hope you're trolling Morehead with this.

giantsfan420
03-08-2012, 02:47 PM
MS- u have no idea what the stipulations are for eli's restructured contract. you have no basis to imply what eli did was anything but a great team guy putting the team first.

further, the fact the bonus is spread out over the next 3 years at 2.75 mil a season indicates that he's actually putting off some of his salary this year onto the future seasons, and if he were to get cut, he would lose like 8 mil...we all get it, you look for any way to bring eli back down to earth...

but stfu already in this case. eli didnt have to do jack ****, he could have just said no, and we'd have to figure another way around our cap issues.
FACT is, he changed up a contract he could have made the giants honor, so that we could get under the cap. he put the team first, and helps us be able to improve. you act like you know what every detail of this restructure is, you know nothing more than the rest of us...get over it already, eli proved you wrong (not trying to get back into this whole eli debate, just find it off how your saying theirs no reason to praise eli for this) and again has put the team in the best situation to win

usually, the qb of the sb winning team and sb mvp, and regular season/playoff team mvp and reason we won it all asks for a pay raise, and doesn't actually restructure the contract for the best of the team...such a joke sometimes with u

Roosevelt
03-08-2012, 02:55 PM
Eli is the man, I'm glad all those years of defending him have come to fruition, there is literally no other QB in the league I'd rather have leading our team.


Wait a second. You were a big Shockey supporter. You can't have it both ways.

Where have you been?

gumby742
03-08-2012, 03:49 PM
MS- u have no idea what the stipulations are for eli's restructured contract. you have no basis to imply what eli did was anything but a great team guy putting the team first.

further, the fact the bonus is spread out over the next 3 years at 2.75 mil a season indicates that he's actually putting off some of his salary this year onto the future seasons, and if he were to get cut, he would lose like 8 mil...we all get it, you look for any way to bring eli back down to earth...

but stfu already in this case. eli didnt have to do jack ****, he could have just said no, and we'd have to figure another way around our cap issues.
FACT is, he changed up a contract he could have made the giants honor, so that we could get under the cap. he put the team first, and helps us be able to improve. you act like you know what every detail of this restructure is, you know nothing more than the rest of us...get over it already, eli proved you wrong (not trying to get back into this whole eli debate, just find it off how your saying theirs no reason to praise eli for this) and again has put the team in the best situation to win

usually, the qb of the sb winning team and sb mvp, and regular season/playoff team mvp and reason we won it all asks for a pay raise, and doesn't actually restructure the contract for the best of the team...such a joke sometimes with u

I really can't believe that the fact that Eli's restructure could have actually benefited him , hit your Eli nerve.

Pretty funny actually.

Sanntee31
03-08-2012, 03:49 PM
Good, now B.Jacobs can shut up, take note &amp; follow suit!!

What's your problem with Jacobs? He restructured last year and is willing to restructure again this year. He's not willing to give his time away.
</P>


Not a problem with him as a whole, just with the way he is over stating his value (Its just my opinion) But then Eli (altho it works out better for him) does what he does and we all know what his value is. Thats all Im saying. </P>

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 04:00 PM
Eli is the man, I'm glad all those years of defending him have come to fruition, there is literally no other QB in the league I'd rather have leading our team.


Wait a second. You were a big Shockey supporter. You can't have it both ways.

Where have you been?


I've been almost purely in THEE THREAD and I haven't even been there that much...been busy with life stuff.

now to address your (you can't have it both ways) point....yes I was a Shockey supporter...I still to this day think it was a terrible decision to let him go...Boss was terrible and Ballard is still not as good now as Shockey was when we let him go..(but I do like Ballard always disliked Boss)

with all that said...before I was a before the whole shockey situation happened I was a die hard Eli supporter..and my opinion of him (since the beginning) was always positive I've probably been one of the top 10 supporters of him on these boards since he came here...many times against good old Morehead.

It's not something you have to choose against...the point is everyone ELSE underestimated Eli...everyone else decided Shockey was bad for him because somehow you all thought that he was having some kind of negative effect on Eli....that was and always will be bullcrap...and what Eli's been able to accomplish shows that...Eli was never so weak that Shockey whining a bit about not getting the ball could have flustered him...that was a silly idea back then...but since everyone doubted Eli back then that's what caught on...we would have been a better team with Shockey there is no doubt about it...but we were still pretty good without him ...but whatever the past is the past.

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 04:01 PM
MS- u have no idea what the stipulations are for eli's restructured contract. you have no basis to imply what eli did was anything but a great team guy putting the team first.

further, the fact the bonus is spread out over the next 3 years at 2.75 mil a season indicates that he's actually putting off some of his salary this year onto the future seasons, and if he were to get cut, he would lose like 8 mil...we all get it, you look for any way to bring eli back down to earth...

but stfu already in this case. eli didnt have to do jack ****, he could have just said no, and we'd have to figure another way around our cap issues.
FACT is, he changed up a contract he could have made the giants honor, so that we could get under the cap. he put the team first, and helps us be able to improve. you act like you know what every detail of this restructure is, you know nothing more than the rest of us...get over it already, eli proved you wrong (not trying to get back into this whole eli debate, just find it off how your saying theirs no reason to praise eli for this) and again has put the team in the best situation to win

usually, the qb of the sb winning team and sb mvp, and regular season/playoff team mvp and reason we won it all asks for a pay raise, and doesn't actually restructure the contract for the best of the team...such a joke sometimes with u

Eli took guaranteed money up front instead of base salary, we know this. It doesn't hurt him, it helps him and it helps the team. He gets money now instead of later, if he gets in a car accident and loses a leg he gets guaranteed money that he would have lost otherwise. Every single player in the league would take this deal, there is no reason not to other than hating your own team I guess.

It's not selfless, it's not selfish, it's neutral. If you liked Eli before, keep liking him. If not, whatever. End of story.

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 04:15 PM
Thank You Eli!!! Love this guy, he is all about the team. Now let go get another F'ing Championship.
</P>


Again...you guys are being silly. There is no doubt that Eli is a great guy and a great teammate, but this move was IN HIS INTEREST. He didn't do anything noble. </P>


If he read some of these posts he'ds be laughing. He didn't take a pay cut. He gave up something to get something.</P>


Damn we need some "noble" guys in the lockerrrom. Guys who drink beer DURING the games.</P>


There was just no reason to go there.</P>


Oh wait.....You're the evil ya, not the good one.</P>

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 04:20 PM
MS- u have no idea what the stipulations are for eli's restructured contract. you have no basis to imply what eli did was anything but a great team guy putting the team first. further, the fact the bonus is spread out over the next 3 years at 2.75 mil a season indicates that he's actually putting off some of his salary this year onto the future seasons, and if he were to get cut, he would lose like 8 mil...we all get it, you look for any way to bring eli back down to earth... but stfu already in this case. eli didnt have to do jack ****, he could have just said no, and we'd have to figure another way around our cap issues. FACT is, he changed up a contract he could have made the giants honor, so that we could get under the cap. he put the team first, and helps us be able to improve. you act like you know what every detail of this restructure is, you know nothing more than the rest of us...get over it already, eli proved you wrong (not trying to get back into this whole eli debate, just find it off how your saying theirs no reason to praise eli for this) and again has put the team in the best situation to win usually, the qb of the sb winning team and sb mvp, and regular season/playoff team mvp and reason we won it all asks for a pay raise, and doesn't actually restructure the contract for the best of the team...such a joke sometimes with u</P>


What are you getting all pissy about.</P>


All I'm saying is that when a team needs one of its stars to restructure, they have to give something in return. No agent worth his salt would accept any thing else.</P>


We have guys here who are suggesting that Eli took a pay cut in order to help the team. Now I know Eli loves his team and teammates, but he isn't going to restructure unless it also benefits him. Thats just the way of the world.</P>


Eli's a good guy but he walked out with a better deal then when he walked in. Logic dictates that.</P>


And I don't know all the specifics of the deal. Of course evidentally you do.</P>


The Giants had to offer Eli something in order to get his to restructure. To beleive anything else is silliness. For all I know it was free lap dances for life. I have no idea. But he got something in return.</P>

Drez
03-08-2012, 04:36 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.</P>


Actually, it doesn't change much of anything. Seeing as it came from his base salary, he would have beenguaranteedthat money anyway saying he was on the roster opening day (or whatever the cut off day happens to be).</P>

GameTime
03-08-2012, 04:36 PM
Eli is the man, I'm glad all those years of defending him have come to fruition, there is literally no other QB in the league I'd rather have leading our team.


Wait a second. You were a big Shockey supporter. You can't have it both ways.

Where have you been?


I've been almost purely in THEE THREAD and I haven't even been there that much...been busy with life stuff.

now to address your (you can't have it both ways) point....yes I was a Shockey supporter...I still to this day think it was a terrible decision to let him go...Boss was terrible and Ballard is still not as good now as Shockey was when we let him go..(but I do like Ballard always disliked Boss)

with all that said...before I was a before the whole shockey situation happened I was a die hard Eli supporter..and my opinion of him (since the beginning) was always positive I've probably been one of the top 10 supporters of him on these boards since he came here...many times against good old Morehead.

It's not something you have to choose against...the point is everyone ELSE underestimated Eli...everyone else decided Shockey was bad for him because somehow you all thought that he was <FONT color=#000080 size=4>having some kind of negative effect on Eli....that was and always will be bullcrap</FONT>...and what Eli's been able to accomplish shows that...Eli was never so weak that Shockey whining a bit about not getting the ball could have flustered him...that was a silly idea back then...but since everyone doubted Eli back then that's what caught on...we would have been a better team with Shockey there is no doubt about it...but we were still pretty good without him ...but whatever the past is the past.


</P>


go ask Amani Toomer. He openly admitted there was no way the Giants even get to SB 42 let a lone win with Shockey in the huddle. No dis to you because you dont have the access to theteam that Tommer had. But you must have heard this before. </P>

GameTime
03-08-2012, 04:39 PM
MS- u have no idea what the stipulations are for eli's restructured contract. you have no basis to imply what eli did was anything but a great team guy putting the team first. further, the fact the bonus is spread out over the next 3 years at 2.75 mil a season indicates that he's actually putting off some of his salary this year onto the future seasons, and if he were to get cut, he would lose like 8 mil...we all get it, you look for any way to bring eli back down to earth... but stfu already in this case. eli didnt have to do jack ****, he could have just said no, and we'd have to figure another way around our cap issues. FACT is, he changed up a contract he could have made the giants honor, so that we could get under the cap. he put the team first, and helps us be able to improve. you act like you know what every detail of this restructure is, you know nothing more than the rest of us...get over it already, eli proved you wrong (not trying to get back into this whole eli debate, just find it off how your saying theirs no reason to praise eli for this) and again has put the team in the best situation to win usually, the qb of the sb winning team and sb mvp, and regular season/playoff team mvp and reason we won it all asks for a pay raise, and doesn't actually restructure the contract for the best of the team...such a joke sometimes with u Eli took guaranteed money up front instead of base salary, we know this. It doesn't hurt him, it helps him and it helps the team. He gets money now instead of later, if he gets in a car accident and loses a leg he gets guaranteed money that he would have lost otherwise. Every single player in the league would take this deal, there is no reason not to other than hating your own team I guess. It's not selfless, it's not selfish, it's neutral. If you liked Eli before, keep liking him. If not, whatever. End of story.</P>


he still did something to help the team's situation. So what ever you want to lable it he made an effort. </P>


</P>

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 04:42 PM
Eli is the man, I'm glad all those years of defending him have come to fruition, there is literally no other QB in the league I'd rather have leading our team.


Wait a second. You were a big Shockey supporter. You can't have it both ways.

Where have you been?


I've been almost purely in THEE THREAD and I haven't even been there that much...been busy with life stuff.

now to address your (you can't have it both ways) point....yes I was a Shockey supporter...I still to this day think it was a terrible decision to let him go...Boss was terrible and Ballard is still not as good now as Shockey was when we let him go..(but I do like Ballard always disliked Boss)

with all that said...before I was a before the whole shockey situation happened I was a die hard Eli supporter..and my opinion of him (since the beginning) was always positive I've probably been one of the top 10 supporters of him on these boards since he came here...many times against good old Morehead.

It's not something you have to choose against...the point is everyone ELSE underestimated Eli...everyone else decided Shockey was bad for him because somehow you all thought that he was <font color="#000080" size="4">having some kind of negative effect on Eli....that was and always will be bullcrap</font>...and what Eli's been able to accomplish shows that...Eli was never so weak that Shockey whining a bit about not getting the ball could have flustered him...that was a silly idea back then...but since everyone doubted Eli back then that's what caught on...we would have been a better team with Shockey there is no doubt about it...but we were still pretty good without him ...but whatever the past is the past.


</p>


go ask Amani Toomer. He openly admitted there was no way the Giants even get to SB 42 let a lone win with Shockey in the huddle. No dis to you because you dont have the access to theteam that Tommer had. But you must have heard this before. </p>

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/01/toomer-shockeys-absence-helped-eli/

there ya go daven

giantsfan420
03-08-2012, 04:48 PM
amen daven...

so how much does this free up on our cap

****in Eli man. After restructuring last year, he didn't have to do it this year..

goddamn im glad we have Eli - I love seeing Moorehead all of a sudden agree too ( [;)] )
Guys we all love Eli but let's calm down...he isn't taking a pay cut, in fact he's getting guaranteed money so it actually benefits him.

at the level hes playing now im sure he would of got every dollar of that deal...

sure now its guaranteed but im sure he'll be losing money by seasons end barring injury or a bad year
The cut in base salary is all going to signing bonus. He's making the exact same amount, just sooner.</P>


I doubt that.* Signing bonuses go against the cap in the year they are paid.* I'm sure the team has postponed AND raised his guaranteed money after this season.</P>



Per NFL Players Association records, the Giants guaranteed $9 million of Manning's $10.75-million base salary for the 2012 season, which allows the team to spread the cap hit over the remaining four years of his contract. Manning's new base salary is $1.75 million.</P>


You can only spread the cap hit on a bonus if you spread the payment of the bonus.</P>


Where are you getting that from? I've never heard that before.</P>


I just looked it up and I stand corrected.* I didn't realize you could pay someone up front and efer it over the length of the contract.* I knew that if you cut someone the entire bonus remaining goes against this years cap number.</P>


But really my poin is made.* Eli is gaining from this deal.</P>

my bad i prob overreacted. but still, the GIANTS benefited from this deal. GIANTS. those that want to thank eli for being selfless, and restructuring for the benefit of the giants have every right to do so.

most sb mvps who were the team mvp for the season and playoffs generally request a raise, they dont usually restructure and divert a large part of their salary onto future seasons bc a peyton situation could play out and eli could very well lose that 8 mil is my point. my bad for getting pissy tho

nygsb42champs
03-08-2012, 04:49 PM
Way to go Eli.

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 04:56 PM
go ask Amani Toomer. He openly admitted there was no way the Giants even get to SB 42 let a lone win with Shockey in the huddle. No dis to you because you dont have the access to theteam that Tommer had. But you must have heard this before.

Oh I've heard that...I've also heard Tiki and Tim Hasselbeck rip Eli, question his ability...claim that he didn't have enough fire...question whether he'd ever be able to win.

but I'm sure you've heard that before as well....


lets not pretend that the players in the locker room are all knowing beings and that whatever they say is beyond reproach.

It seems pretty clear to me that Toomer was wrong there...as were many other Ex teammates and so called "experts"

to think Shockey could have held back our 2 time SB MVP Quarterback...the guy who is clearly the best QB in Giants history is a little ******ed isn't it....it's so silly it's not even worth discussing, If Shockey could have held Eli back then Eli would never have made it this far without him either...cause it would mean he's weak..and he's anything but weak.

Also I guess Eli himself saying that Shockey didn't have a negative effect on him means nothing.

netplus
03-08-2012, 05:00 PM
The question is, who do we sign with the added cap room? Maybe Eli wants Manningham back badly, and why he made the"hard" choice of getting 9 million now.

"The Giants have restructured Eli Manning's contract in order to save roughly $6.75 million in salary cap space. Manning's base salary, which was previously $10.75 million, was dropped to $1.75 million and he received a $9 million "signing" bonus to be paid immediately. The move lowers Manning's 2012 cap number from $16.35 million to $9.6 million, but his future cap numbers will all be in the $20 million range. It does give the Giants more freedom to sign other players in free agency. "

jhamburg
03-08-2012, 05:06 PM
The question is, who do we sign with the added cap room? Maybe Eli wants Manningham back badly, and why he made the"hard" choice of getting 9 million now.

"The Giants have restructured Eli Manning's contract in order to save roughly $6.75 million in salary cap space. Manning's base salary, which was previously $10.75 million, was dropped to $1.75 million and he received a $9 million "signing" bonus to be paid immediately. The move lowers Manning's 2012 cap number from $16.35 million to $9.6 million, but his future cap numbers will all be in the $20 million range. It does give the Giants more freedom to sign other players in free agency. "

I like using the room to cut someone like Diehl, take the cap hit, and then have the salary off the books for 2013 when we need the room for Eli's ballooning number.

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 05:16 PM
go ask Amani Toomer. He openly admitted there was no way the Giants even get to SB 42 let a lone win with Shockey in the huddle. No dis to you because you dont have the access to theteam that Tommer had. But you must have heard this before.

Oh I've heard that...I've also heard Tiki and Tim Hasselbeck rip Eli, question his ability...claim that he didn't have enough fire...question whether he'd ever be able to win.

but I'm sure you've heard that before as well....


lets not pretend that the players in the locker room are all knowing beings and that whatever they say is beyond reproach.

It seems pretty clear to me that Toomer was wrong there...as were many other Ex teammates and so called "experts"

to think Shockey could have held back our 2 time SB MVP Quarterback...the guy who is clearly the best QB in Giants history is a little ******ed isn't it....it's so silly it's not even worth discussing, If Shockey could have held Eli back then Eli would never have made it this far without him either...cause it would mean he's weak..and he's anything but weak.

Also I guess Eli himself saying that Shockey didn't have a negative effect on him means nothing.


yea instead lets take the guys opinion on the message boards named daven

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 05:16 PM
The question is, who do we sign with the added cap room? Maybe Eli wants Manningham back badly, and why he made the"hard" choice of getting 9 million now.

"The Giants have restructured Eli Manning's contract in order to save roughly $6.75 million in salary cap space. Manning's base salary, which was previously $10.75 million, was dropped to $1.75 million and he received a $9 million "signing" bonus to be paid immediately. The move lowers Manning's 2012 cap number from $16.35 million to $9.6 million, but his future cap numbers will all be in the $20 million range. It does give the Giants more freedom to sign other players in free agency. "

we're still over the cap and have only made three signing for 1.6 mil and had eli cut 7 mil off us cap number

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 05:23 PM
yea instead lets take the guys opinion on the message boards named daven



or you could believe Eli

or just look at what Eli's done and recognize that they were all wrong.

Tiki was wrong...everyone agrees with that...Hasselbeck was wrong....everyone agrees with that...but Toomer...no he can't have been wrong that's just impossible right?

you guys are so hypocritical.

it's just Shockey hate that's all it is...you are blinded by hatred so you can't look at the situation logically.

if what all these guys said about Eli was true...how could he possibly have turned out so good...players in the locker room have been wrong on many many occasions...why couldn't they have been on this one?...that's a rhetorical question...because the evidence is right there for all of us to see...clearly they WERE wrong...clearly Eli could have handled Shockey just fine.

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 05:26 PM
yea instead lets take the guys opinion on the message boards named daven



or you could just look at what Eli's done and recognize that they were all wrong.

Tiki was wrong...everyone agrees with that...Hasselbeck was wrong....everyone agrees with that...but Toomer...no he can't have been wrong that's just impossible right?


uhm since Shockey went down - everybody would agree that a few weeks late vs the Pats in the last game of the seaon Eli turned a corner in his career and went on a 2 superbowl in 5 year run...

maybe u should look at what Eli did lol

yatitle
03-08-2012, 05:28 PM
Thank You Eli!!! Love this guy, he is all about the team. Now let go get another F'ing Championship.
</P>


Again...you guys are being silly.* There is no doubt that Eli is a great guy and a great teammate, but this move was IN HIS INTEREST.* He didn't do anything noble.* </P>


If he read some of these posts he'ds be laughing.* He didn't take a pay cut.* He gave up something to get something.</P>


Damn we need some "noble" guys in the lockerrrom. Guys who drink beer DURING the games.</P>


There was just no reason to go there.</P>


Oh wait.....You're the evil ya, not the good one.</P>

Damn I might just have to change my screen name. Love that. Evil YA

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 05:34 PM
yea instead lets take the guys opinion on the message boards named daven



or you could just look at what Eli's done and recognize that they were all wrong.

Tiki was wrong...everyone agrees with that...Hasselbeck was wrong....everyone agrees with that...but Toomer...no he can't have been wrong that's just impossible right?


uhm since Shockey went down - everybody would agree that a few weeks late vs the Pats in the last game of the seaon Eli turned a corner in his career and went on a 2 superbowl in 5 year run...

maybe u should look at what Eli did lol


correlation does not imply causation.

just because Shockey went down and Eli got better doesn't prove that Eli got better because Shockey went down....even Eli himself said Shockey never had a negative effect on him...

look at Eli's accomplishments...look at them, 2 time SB champ and MVP...beats and unbeatable Pats team...all these forth Q comebacks....

he's Mr. Clutch....pressure is nothing to this guy.

all that but he can't handle a whiny Tight End.

come on now be serious you sound so absolutely ridiculous claiming that Shockey was negatively effecting Eli.

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 05:36 PM
yea instead lets take the guys opinion on the message boards named daven



or you could just look at what Eli's done and recognize that they were all wrong.

Tiki was wrong...everyone agrees with that...Hasselbeck was wrong....everyone agrees with that...but Toomer...no he can't have been wrong that's just impossible right?


uhm since Shockey went down - everybody would agree that a few weeks late vs the Pats in the last game of the seaon Eli turned a corner in his career and went on a 2 superbowl in 5 year run...

maybe u should look at what Eli did lol


correlation does not imply causation.

just because Shockey went down and Eli got better doesn't prove that Eli got better because Shockey went down....even Eli himself said Shockey never had a negative effect on him...

look at Eli's accomplishments...look at them, 2 time SB champ and MVP...beats and unbeatable Pats team...all these forth Q comebacks....

he's Mr. Clutch....pressure is nothing to this guy.

all that but he can't handle a whiny Tight End.

come on now be serious you sound so absolutely ridiculous claiming that Shockey was negatively effecting Eli.


actually i sound like Amani Toomer

and I think i'd rather sound like him than DAVEN the THIRD

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 05:43 PM
actually i sound like Amani Toomer

and I think i'd rather sound like him than DAVEN the THIRD


go ahead sound like Amani Toomer.

Id rather sound like Eli Manning..you want to say Eli's wrong? go ahead..but I think he knows a good deal more about himself then Amani Toomer Tiki Barber and Hasselbeck combined.

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 05:46 PM
actually i sound like Amani Toomer

and I think i'd rather sound like him than DAVEN the THIRD


go ahead sound like Amani Toomer.

Id rather sound like Eli Manning..you want to say Eli's wrong? go ahead..but I think he knows a good deal more about himself then Amani Toomer Tiki Barber and Hasselbeck combined.


lol is so PC that for u to even quote him about not bashing somebody lets me know i've won

2 for 2 in 2 days

gmen46
03-08-2012, 05:51 PM
Why don't they offer to pay the players a little under the table? That way it doesn't affect the cap and the players get what they want. Kind of like in College football. If Jacobs takes a million dollar pay cut then maybe he will get a mysterious bag of money from someone he was never seen....

Well, that would certainly give bountygate a little break in coverage* [8-)]


And maintains the image most people outside (and inside, for many) of New Jersey have of New Jersey..

A win-win, in my view.

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 05:53 PM
actually i sound like Amani Toomer

and I think i'd rather sound like him than DAVEN the THIRD


go ahead sound like Amani Toomer.

Id rather sound like Eli Manning..you want to say Eli's wrong? go ahead..but I think he knows a good deal more about himself then Amani Toomer Tiki Barber and Hasselbeck combined.


lol is so PC that for u to even quote him about not bashing somebody lets me know i've won

2 for 2 in 2 days




I know that when you claim victory even though I'm clearly winning the argument it means I've won....thank you :)

MattMeyerBud
03-08-2012, 05:55 PM
actually i sound like Amani Toomer

and I think i'd rather sound like him than DAVEN the THIRD


go ahead sound like Amani Toomer.

Id rather sound like Eli Manning..you want to say Eli's wrong? go ahead..but I think he knows a good deal more about himself then Amani Toomer Tiki Barber and Hasselbeck combined.


lol is so PC that for u to even quote him about not bashing somebody lets me know i've won

2 for 2 in 2 days




I know that when you claim victory even though I'm clearly winning the argument it means I've won....thank you :)


lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 05:59 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.

giantsfan420
03-08-2012, 06:15 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.


in football, perhaps the biggest "team" sport, one player not on the same page can change everything.
i personally do believe shockey held back the GIANTS, not necessarily eli. shockey refused to work out during the offseason with eli even tho eli got to the point he would verbally ask him through the media after asking him personally didn't work.

remember that game vs the vikings? shockey was running incorrect routes and one led to a 80something yard pick 6.

could eli have led us to a sb win with shockey? probably. same could be said about tiki. did he? no.

look at the pass catchers we have now, not one of em is similar in any way to shockeys personality. eli as the leader is a much better qb then eli as a qb that had to follow. shockeys ego and incessant need to be the center of attention detracted the success of THE GIANTS. u could go "well eli never said anything about shockey so their must not have been an issue" but eli did, he made it clear he disliked shockey and burress whole miami offseason mentality.

further, REESE made it clear through his words and actions that the team would be better WITHOUT shockey, and he was right.

shockey the first couple of seasons as a giant, that guy was great. hungry. team first...something changed, maybe the nyc spotlight i dunno...

i do know we won 2 super bowls WITHOUT shockey and with te's who werent as skilled as him. that says something, it was addition by subtraction. lesser talented te's but better team guys who were willing to follow eli not be their own man.

again, on a team, in a sport like football, just ONE guy not on the same page makes it near impossible to be champions...sorry dude thats just the truth.

DavenIII
03-08-2012, 06:25 PM
Shockey may have affected other players on the team and I do believe that him "running his own routes" was a problem at times....but I still contend that it's ridiculous to say he had some type of "power" over Eli, that Eli was to weak to succeed with him around, I also think we definitely would have won with Shockey (and Tiki) still here, that's not to say they didn't have a negative affect on some players it's entirely possible that they did...but not on Eli.

Also I'd like to mention that Cruz/Nicks and Manningham have all had their moments, running the wrong routes dropping passes deflecting them skywards they've all made the same mistakes Shockey did (honestly I think it's a result of Gilbrides system..he allows receivers and Eli to make a lot of judgement calls)...but they didn't have his attitude....so they are forgotten about...that's the real difference.

when you have a bad attitude everyone remembers the bad...when you are a good guy people let it slide.

Shockey had a bad attitude...and did it maybe turn off some of his teamates...probably yes...but did it affect their performance on the field (notably Eli's) I seriously doubt it....

anyhow time to go home later!

gmen46
03-08-2012, 06:41 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.


The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes.

I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years.

As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that.

But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey.

That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it.

Nothing more to it, really.

Morehead State
03-08-2012, 06:46 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.
The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes. I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years. As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that. But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey. That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it. Nothing more to it, really.</P>


Actually JR was very happy to have Shockey back in 2008. The problem was that Shockey was making life miserable for the team and was looking for a trade. </P>


Point is that JR thought the team was better with Shockey. But it was Shockey's behavior before the 08 season that prompted the trade.</P>

byron
03-08-2012, 06:47 PM
MS- u have no idea what the stipulations are for eli's restructured contract. you have no basis to imply what eli did was anything but a great team guy putting the team first. further, the fact the bonus is spread out over the next 3 years at 2.75 mil a season indicates that he's actually putting off some of his salary this year onto the future seasons, and if he were to get cut, he would lose like 8 mil...we all get it, you look for any way to bring eli back down to earth... but stfu already in this case. eli didnt have to do jack ****, he could have just said no, and we'd have to figure another way around our cap issues. FACT is, he changed up a contract he could have made the giants honor, so that we could get under the cap. he put the team first, and helps us be able to improve. you act like you know what every detail of this restructure is, you know nothing more than the rest of us...get over it already, eli proved you wrong (not trying to get back into this whole eli debate, just find it off how your saying theirs no reason to praise eli for this) and again has put the team in the best situation to win usually, the qb of the sb winning team and sb mvp, and regular season/playoff team mvp and reason we won it all asks for a pay raise, and doesn't actually restructure the contract for the best of the team...such a joke sometimes with u</P>


What are you getting all pissy about.</P>


All I'm saying is that when a team needs one of its stars to restructure, they have to give something in return. No agent worth his salt would accept any thing else.</P>


We have guys here who are suggesting that Eli took a pay cut in order to help the team. Now I know Eli loves his team and teammates, but he isn't going to restructure unless it also benefits him. Thats just the way of the world.</P>


Eli's a good guy but he walked out with a better deal then when he walked in. Logic dictates that.</P>


And I don't know all the specifics of the deal. Of course evidentally you do.</P>


The Giants had to offer Eli something in order to get his to restructure. To beleive anything else is silliness. For all I know it was free lap dances for life. I have no idea. <FONT color=#0000ff>But he got something in return.</FONT></P> 9 mil in guaranteed money...no brainer here

Itlan
03-08-2012, 06:53 PM
The question is, who do we sign with the added cap room? Maybe Eli wants Manningham back badly, and why he made the"hard" choice of getting 9 million now.

"The Giants have restructured Eli Manning's contract in order to save roughly $6.75 million in salary cap space. Manning's base salary, which was previously $10.75 million, was dropped to $1.75 million and he received a $9 million "signing" bonus to be paid immediately. The move lowers Manning's 2012 cap number from $16.35 million to $9.6 million, but his future cap numbers will all be in the $20 million range. It does give the Giants more freedom to sign other players in free agency. "

we're still over the cap and have only made three signing for 1.6 mil and had eli cut 7 mil off us cap number
Interesting, since the cap numbers still haven't been made official. I'd like to know where you're getting these numbers from, cause you're way off lol.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 07:59 PM
The question is, who do we sign with the added cap room? Maybe Eli wants Manningham back badly, and why he made the"hard" choice of getting 9 million now.

"The Giants have restructured Eli Manning's contract in order to save roughly $6.75 million in salary cap space. Manning's base salary, which was previously $10.75 million, was dropped to $1.75 million and he received a $9 million "signing" bonus to be paid immediately. The move lowers Manning's 2012 cap number from $16.35 million to $9.6 million, but his future cap numbers will all be in the $20 million range. It does give the Giants more freedom to sign other players in free agency. "

we're still over the cap and have only made three signing for 1.6 mil and had eli cut 7 mil off us cap number
Interesting, since the cap numbers still haven't been made official. I'd like to know where you're getting these numbers from, cause you're way off lol.

The CAP is so complicated it's not easy to give a definitive answer to what it is at any given moment. What's important is that we don't have tens of millions of dollars to spend.

CruzMissle
03-08-2012, 08:08 PM
Just when you thought Eli could do nothing more to make you like the man even more.... holy crap. Hats off to Eli for being team first.

Drez
03-08-2012, 08:11 PM
my bad i prob overreacted. but still, the GIANTS benefited from this deal. GIANTS. those that want to thank eli for being selfless, and restructuring for the benefit of the giants have every right to do so. most sb mvps who were the team mvp for the season and playoffs generally request a raise, they dont usually restructure and divert a large part of their salary onto future seasons bc a peyton situation could play out and eli could very well lose that 8 mil is my point. my bad for getting pissy tho</P>


All of the money that Eli is deferring is guaranteed money (signing bonuses are 100% guaranteed, they're just prorated over the course of the contract). If he gets a career ending injury, he gets that money. If JR decides to cut Eli because he doesn't like Eli's brown shoes/dark suit look, Eli gets the money. There is NO way that Eli's agent signs off on the deal otherwise.</P>

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 08:18 PM
my bad i prob overreacted. but still, the GIANTS benefited from this deal. GIANTS. those that want to thank eli for being selfless, and restructuring for the benefit of the giants have every right to do so. most sb mvps who were the team mvp for the season and playoffs generally request a raise, they dont usually restructure and divert a large part of their salary onto future seasons bc a peyton situation could play out and eli could very well lose that 8 mil is my point. my bad for getting pissy tho</p>


All of the money that Eli is deferring is guaranteed money (signing bonuses are 100% guaranteed, they're just prorated over the course of the contract). If he gets a career ending injury, he gets that money. If JR decides to cut Eli because he doesn't like Eli's brown shoes/dark suit look, Eli gets the money. There is NO way that Eli's agent signs off on the deal otherwise.</p>

Which is why they call it re-structuring and not pay cut.

GameTime
03-08-2012, 08:29 PM
go ask Amani Toomer. He openly admitted there was no way the Giants even get to SB 42 let a lone win with Shockey in the huddle. No dis to you because you dont have the access to theteam that Tommer had. But you must have heard this before.

Oh I've heard that...I've also heard Tiki and Tim Hasselbeck rip Eli, question his ability...claim that he didn't have enough fire...question whether he'd ever be able to win.

but I'm sure you've heard that before as well....


lets not pretend that the players in the locker room are all knowing beings and that whatever they say is beyond reproach.

It seems pretty clear to me that Toomer was wrong there...as were many other Ex teammates and so called "experts"

to think Shockey could have held back our 2 time SB MVP Quarterback...the guy who is clearly the best QB in Giants history is a little ******ed isn't it....it's so silly it's not even worth discussing, If Shockey could have held Eli back then Eli would never have made it this far without him either...cause it would mean he's weak..and he's anything but weak.

Also I guess Eli himself saying that Shockey didn't have a negative effect on him means nothing.
</P>


Eli is way too classy to say crap about anyone. Shockey was good for the team until he decided he was to big for the team and became a problem instead of a solution. Shockey upsetting the "apple cart" wouldn't mean Eli was weak but Eli did NOT have the team in 07 like he does now. BTW....Eli was the SB 42 and 46MVP without#80 in huddle. So your arguement there is moot. You have your opinion and I have mine. And before I ever even heard Tommer's comments I had my own opinion of Shockey. I wasn't surprised in the least about Toomer's comments and I for one was glad to see Shockey go when. He could have been one of the greats but he holds himself above the team. LIke Tiki.....Shockey was "me" player.....100%. </P>


</P>

Drez
03-08-2012, 08:35 PM
my bad i prob overreacted. but still, the GIANTS benefited from this deal. GIANTS. those that want to thank eli for being selfless, and restructuring for the benefit of the giants have every right to do so. most sb mvps who were the team mvp for the season and playoffs generally request a raise, they dont usually restructure and divert a large part of their salary onto future seasons bc a peyton situation could play out and eli could very well lose that 8 mil is my point. my bad for getting pissy tho</P>


All of the money that Eli is deferring is guaranteed money (signing bonuses are 100% guaranteed, they're just prorated over the course of the contract). If he gets a career ending injury, he gets that money. If JR decides to cut Eli because he doesn't like Eli's brown shoes/dark suit look, Eli gets the money. There is NO way that Eli's agent signs off on the deal otherwise.</P>




Which is why they call it re-structuring and not pay cut.
</P>


Yup. Seeing as the salary he restructured was only this year's base salary, Eli is just taking a bunch of money that would have been guaranteed to him on the first day of the season (or whatever the day is when base salaries are guaranteed) and deferred it to future years. He's no better or worse off (unless he had some massive plans for that money this year).</P>


But, it seems like 420 is a little confused (and these things can be confusing, no doubt)about how the contracts work and thinks that Eli would be at risk of losing some money if he were injured or whatnot. I'm just trying to get him to realize that Eli isn't sacrificing/risking anything. He's still helping the team and should still be lauded for that, though.</P>

gmen46
03-08-2012, 08:46 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.
The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes. I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years. As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that. But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey. That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it. Nothing more to it, really.</P>


Actually JR was very happy to have Shockey back in 2008.* The problem was that Shockey was making life miserable for the team and was looking for a trade.* </P>


Point is that JR thought the team was better with Shockey.* But it was Shockey's behavior before the 08 season that prompted the trade.</P>

So you disagree that the fact that they proved they could win big games in 07 without Shockey--by choice or forced by injury--made it easier for Reese (who I agree was not initially keen on losing Shockey) to ultimately trade him?

Or, to look at it from Shockey's POV rather than Reese's, is it not possible that Shockey was so upset to see The Giants do just fine without him--better than fine, in fact--after he went down, that his hurt feelings were the actual cause of his increased boorish behavior throughout the summer of 08?

Because, after all, he wasn't behaving all THAT much worse July 2008 than he had his previous 5 seasons.

Something had to have flicked the switch for both Reese and for Shockey to agree on parting ways, especially in light of your opinion that Reese "thought the team was better with Shockey". Something about Shockey's behavior before the 08 season had to have altered Reese's thinking about Shockey's value to the team.

I wonder what that "something" could have been???

Hmmmm. Can't quite put my finger on what that "something" was.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 10:23 PM
my bad i prob overreacted. but still, the GIANTS benefited from this deal. GIANTS. those that want to thank eli for being selfless, and restructuring for the benefit of the giants have every right to do so. most sb mvps who were the team mvp for the season and playoffs generally request a raise, they dont usually restructure and divert a large part of their salary onto future seasons bc a peyton situation could play out and eli could very well lose that 8 mil is my point. my bad for getting pissy tho</p>


All of the money that Eli is deferring is guaranteed money (signing bonuses are 100% guaranteed, they're just prorated over the course of the contract). If he gets a career ending injury, he gets that money. If JR decides to cut Eli because he doesn't like Eli's brown shoes/dark suit look, Eli gets the money. There is NO way that Eli's agent signs off on the deal otherwise.</p>




Which is why they call it re-structuring and not pay cut.
</p>


Yup. Seeing as the salary he restructured was only this year's base salary, Eli is just taking a bunch of money that would have been guaranteed to him on the first day of the season (or whatever the day is when base salaries are guaranteed) and deferred it to future years. He's no better or worse off (unless he had some massive plans for that money this year).</p>


But, it seems like 420 is a little confused (and these things can be confusing, no doubt)about how the contracts work and thinks that Eli would be at risk of losing some money if he were injured or whatnot. I'm just trying to get him to realize that Eli isn't sacrificing/risking anything. He's still helping the team and should still be lauded for that, though.</p>

Don't get me wrong, he didn't have to do it. Doing it didn't hurt Eli, but it certainly benefited the team in time of need.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 10:28 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.
The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes. I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years. As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that. But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey. That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it. Nothing more to it, really.</p>


Actually JR was very happy to have Shockey back in 2008. The problem was that Shockey was making life miserable for the team and was looking for a trade. </p>


Point is that JR thought the team was better with Shockey. But it was Shockey's behavior before the 08 season that prompted the trade.</p>

I may well have been Shockey's biggest and last supporter leading up to his verbal altercation with Reese. I think it's safe to say Shockey took himself out of the game (pun intended) rather than Reese showing him the door. You can only do so much for some people and it became clear, even to me, Shockey would never be happy here.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 10:34 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.
The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes. I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years. As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that. But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey. That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it. Nothing more to it, really.</p>


Actually JR was very happy to have Shockey back in 2008. The problem was that Shockey was making life miserable for the team and was looking for a trade. </p>


Point is that JR thought the team was better with Shockey. But it was Shockey's behavior before the 08 season that prompted the trade.</p>

So you disagree that the fact that they proved they could win big games in 07 without Shockey--by choice or forced by injury--made it easier for Reese (who I agree was not initially keen on losing Shockey) to ultimately trade him?

Or, to look at it from Shockey's POV rather than Reese's, is it not possible that Shockey was so upset to see The Giants do just fine without him--better than fine, in fact--after he went down, that his hurt feelings were the actual cause of his increased boorish behavior throughout the summer of 08?

Because, after all, he wasn't behaving all THAT much worse July 2008 than he had his previous 5 seasons.

Something had to have flicked the switch for both Reese and for Shockey to agree on parting ways, especially in light of your opinion that Reese "thought the team was better with Shockey". Something about Shockey's behavior before the 08 season had to have altered Reese's thinking about Shockey's value to the team.

I wonder what that "something" could have been???

Hmmmm. Can't quite put my finger on what that "something" was.

Phil Simms put the Shockey implosion into perspective when he acknowledged how badly he, Simms, felt being on the sidelines during the Super Bowl. He remarked that by half time he HAD to leave because he just felt he didn't belong. He was not justifying Shockey's antics but trying to say you just don't know how it feels unless you've been there. He was referring to helping you team get to the Big Game and then not being able to play.

You may recall all of the detractors climbing all over Shockey for being in a suite as opposed to being on the sidelines on crutches. It was later revealed he couldn't be on the sidelines BECAUSE he was on crutches. I knew we have lost all perspective when a huge deal was made of a bottle of beer being in front of Shockey during the game.

Harooni
03-08-2012, 10:52 PM
when big ben rescructured 420 and pals said it was no big deal because he got every penny and it is no acual pay cut. so why all of a sudden Eli does it and they label him a saint?


i think both did a good thing and in the end it wont cost them anything to do so , so y not help your org.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 10:54 PM
when big ben rescructured 420 and pals said it was no big deal because he got every penny and it is no acual pay cut. so why all of a sudden Eli does it and they label him a saint?


i think both did a good thing and in the end it wont cost them anything to do so , so y not help your org.

No good deed goes unpunished [;)]

gmen46
03-08-2012, 10:55 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.
The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes. I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years. As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that. But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey. That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it. Nothing more to it, really.</p>


Actually JR was very happy to have Shockey back in 2008.* The problem was that Shockey was making life miserable for the team and was looking for a trade.* </p>


Point is that JR thought the team was better with Shockey.* But it was Shockey's behavior before the 08 season that prompted the trade.</p>

So you disagree that the fact that they proved they could win big games in 07 without Shockey--by choice or forced by injury--made it easier for Reese (who I agree was not initially keen on losing Shockey) to ultimately trade him?

Or, to look at it from Shockey's POV rather than Reese's, is it not possible that Shockey was so upset to see The Giants do just fine without him--better than fine, in fact--after he went down, that his hurt feelings were the actual cause of his increased boorish behavior throughout the summer of 08?

Because, after all, he wasn't behaving all THAT much worse July 2008 than he had his previous 5 seasons.

Something had to have flicked the switch for both Reese and for Shockey to agree on parting ways, especially in light of your opinion that Reese "thought the team was better with Shockey". Something about Shockey's behavior before the 08 season had to have altered Reese's thinking about Shockey's value to the team.

I wonder what that "something" could have been???

Hmmmm. Can't quite put my finger on what that "something" was.

Phil Simms put the Shockey implosion into perspective when he acknowledged how badly he, Simms, felt being on the sidelines during the Super Bowl.* He remarked that by half time he HAD to leave because he just felt he didn't belong.* He was not justifying Shockey's antics but trying to say you just don't know how it feels unless you've been there.* He was referring to helping you team get to the Big Game and then not being able to play.

You may recall all of the detractors climbing all over Shockey for being in a suite as opposed to being on the sidelines on crutches.* It was later revealed he couldn't be on the sidelines BECAUSE he was on crutches.* I knew we have lost all perspective when a huge deal was made of a bottle of beer being in front of Shockey during the game.


I hear you on this. I wasn't being a wise guy -- well, not TOO much of one -- when I referred to Shockey's hurt feelings after not being able to participate. I really can relate to that.

He just isn't one who can handle something like that in a way that most would call "grace". Not everyone can.

Having said that, there is the fact that Kiwinuka, with the identical injury as Shockey's--albeit suffered 3-4 weeks prior to Shockey--did in fact ignore the directive which Shockey obeyed, and found a way to be on the sidelines that game.

It's just a matter of attitude, I think. Shockey has his. Some people are fine with it, others are not. I always thought some made way too much of him being up in the booth, frankly. Hell, we wouldn't have even noticed (because of watching the--I don't know--the GAME, maybe?) him up there if the broadcasting network hadn't thought it was interesting enough to show for awhile.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 11:14 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.
The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes. I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years. As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that. But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey. That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it. Nothing more to it, really.</p>


Actually JR was very happy to have Shockey back in 2008. The problem was that Shockey was making life miserable for the team and was looking for a trade. </p>


Point is that JR thought the team was better with Shockey. But it was Shockey's behavior before the 08 season that prompted the trade.</p>

So you disagree that the fact that they proved they could win big games in 07 without Shockey--by choice or forced by injury--made it easier for Reese (who I agree was not initially keen on losing Shockey) to ultimately trade him?

Or, to look at it from Shockey's POV rather than Reese's, is it not possible that Shockey was so upset to see The Giants do just fine without him--better than fine, in fact--after he went down, that his hurt feelings were the actual cause of his increased boorish behavior throughout the summer of 08?

Because, after all, he wasn't behaving all THAT much worse July 2008 than he had his previous 5 seasons.

Something had to have flicked the switch for both Reese and for Shockey to agree on parting ways, especially in light of your opinion that Reese "thought the team was better with Shockey". Something about Shockey's behavior before the 08 season had to have altered Reese's thinking about Shockey's value to the team.

I wonder what that "something" could have been???

Hmmmm. Can't quite put my finger on what that "something" was.

Phil Simms put the Shockey implosion into perspective when he acknowledged how badly he, Simms, felt being on the sidelines during the Super Bowl. He remarked that by half time he HAD to leave because he just felt he didn't belong. He was not justifying Shockey's antics but trying to say you just don't know how it feels unless you've been there. He was referring to helping you team get to the Big Game and then not being able to play.

You may recall all of the detractors climbing all over Shockey for being in a suite as opposed to being on the sidelines on crutches. It was later revealed he couldn't be on the sidelines BECAUSE he was on crutches. I knew we have lost all perspective when a huge deal was made of a bottle of beer being in front of Shockey during the game.


I hear you on this. I wasn't being a wise guy -- well, not TOO much of one -- when I referred to Shockey's hurt feelings after not being able to participate. I really can relate to that.

He just isn't one who can handle something like that in a way that most would call "grace". Not everyone can.

Having said that, there is the fact that Kiwinuka, with the identical injury as Shockey's--albeit suffered 3-4 weeks prior to Shockey--did in fact ignore the directive which Shockey obeyed, and found a way to be on the sidelines that game.

It's just a matter of attitude, I think. Shockey has his. Some people are fine with it, others are not. I always thought some made way too much of him being up in the booth, frankly. Hell, we wouldn't have even noticed (because of watching the--I don't know--the GAME, maybe?) him up there if the broadcasting network hadn't thought it was interesting enough to show for awhile.

Some here would eat their young and then biotch about the gas [:D]

slipknottin
03-08-2012, 11:16 PM
I dont know why people are saying thanks Eli.

This is a 100% player sided deal. The team gets nothing out of it other than immediate cap room (and a higher future cap)

All they do is convert some of his base salary into guaranteed money they pay him right now.

May be nice today, but adding another 2+ mil a year to his already huge cap numbers is going to suck the next couple seasons.

gmen46
03-08-2012, 11:45 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.
The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes. I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years. As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that. But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey. That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it. Nothing more to it, really.</p>


Actually JR was very happy to have Shockey back in 2008.* The problem was that Shockey was making life miserable for the team and was looking for a trade.* </p>


Point is that JR thought the team was better with Shockey.* But it was Shockey's behavior before the 08 season that prompted the trade.</p>

So you disagree that the fact that they proved they could win big games in 07 without Shockey--by choice or forced by injury--made it easier for Reese (who I agree was not initially keen on losing Shockey) to ultimately trade him?

Or, to look at it from Shockey's POV rather than Reese's, is it not possible that Shockey was so upset to see The Giants do just fine without him--better than fine, in fact--after he went down, that his hurt feelings were the actual cause of his increased boorish behavior throughout the summer of 08?

Because, after all, he wasn't behaving all THAT much worse July 2008 than he had his previous 5 seasons.

Something had to have flicked the switch for both Reese and for Shockey to agree on parting ways, especially in light of your opinion that Reese "thought the team was better with Shockey". Something about Shockey's behavior before the 08 season had to have altered Reese's thinking about Shockey's value to the team.

I wonder what that "something" could have been???

Hmmmm. Can't quite put my finger on what that "something" was.

Phil Simms put the Shockey implosion into perspective when he acknowledged how badly he, Simms, felt being on the sidelines during the Super Bowl.* He remarked that by half time he HAD to leave because he just felt he didn't belong.* He was not justifying Shockey's antics but trying to say you just don't know how it feels unless you've been there.* He was referring to helping you team get to the Big Game and then not being able to play.

You may recall all of the detractors climbing all over Shockey for being in a suite as opposed to being on the sidelines on crutches.* It was later revealed he couldn't be on the sidelines BECAUSE he was on crutches.* I knew we have lost all perspective when a huge deal was made of a bottle of beer being in front of Shockey during the game.


I hear you on this. I wasn't being a wise guy -- well, not TOO much of one -- when I referred to Shockey's hurt feelings after not being able to participate. I really can relate to that.

He just isn't one who can handle something like that in a way that most would call "grace". Not everyone can.

Having said that, there is the fact that Kiwinuka, with the identical injury as Shockey's--albeit suffered 3-4 weeks prior to Shockey--did in fact ignore the directive which Shockey obeyed, and found a way to be on the sidelines that game.

It's just a matter of attitude, I think. Shockey has his. Some people are fine with it, others are not. I always thought some made way too much of him being up in the booth, frankly. Hell, we wouldn't have even noticed (because of watching the--I don't know--the GAME, maybe?) him up there if the broadcasting network hadn't thought it was interesting enough to show for awhile.

Some here would eat their young and then biotch about the gas* [:D]


Yeah, I know mine cause me gas, but I just have another lager and it makes it go away.

RoanokeFan
03-08-2012, 11:48 PM
lol u really just tried to prove ur case by saying Eli, "MR PC" (a point that i've seen u argue before as well), never came out and said anything bad about Shockey so that means your right


riiiiiiight


Mr PC who told who was it Michael Kay? that he was an Elite QB preseason this year...on par with Tom Brady..and cause an uproar...oh that Mr. PC ooook.

look Amani Toomer/Tiki Barber Hasselback they've all been "proven" wrong by Eli's accomplishments....to even suggest that Eli couldn't handle Shockey is literately ******ed at this point, we all know Eli's stronger then that...he can take whatever coming at him and handle it, a whiny TE was the least of his troubles back then.
The juvenile in me has been perversely amused by this descent into cat fighting between two otherwise thoughtful and intelligent posters (you and mattmeyerbud) concerning Shockey and his attributes. I agree with you that Shockey's attitude most likely had little, if any, negative effect upon Eli's progress as a QB in his early years. As you say, Eli's overall performance his first 4 years in the league pretty much confirms your point of view on that. But to me--at the time, and now as well--it seemed obvious what sealed Shockey's fate as a Giant the summer of 2008 was that the Giants (and Eli especially) played their best ball of the season during the post season and won the most "unlikely" Super Bowl victory against the first undefeated team in 36 years.. All of that was accomplished without Shockey. That fact, along with Shockey's relentless whining during off season, just made it easy for Reese to get rid of squeaky wheel, and to make a pretty good deal while he was at it. Nothing more to it, really.</p>


Actually JR was very happy to have Shockey back in 2008. The problem was that Shockey was making life miserable for the team and was looking for a trade. </p>


Point is that JR thought the team was better with Shockey. But it was Shockey's behavior before the 08 season that prompted the trade.</p>

So you disagree that the fact that they proved they could win big games in 07 without Shockey--by choice or forced by injury--made it easier for Reese (who I agree was not initially keen on losing Shockey) to ultimately trade him?

Or, to look at it from Shockey's POV rather than Reese's, is it not possible that Shockey was so upset to see The Giants do just fine without him--better than fine, in fact--after he went down, that his hurt feelings were the actual cause of his increased boorish behavior throughout the summer of 08?

Because, after all, he wasn't behaving all THAT much worse July 2008 than he had his previous 5 seasons.

Something had to have flicked the switch for both Reese and for Shockey to agree on parting ways, especially in light of your opinion that Reese "thought the team was better with Shockey". Something about Shockey's behavior before the 08 season had to have altered Reese's thinking about Shockey's value to the team.

I wonder what that "something" could have been???

Hmmmm. Can't quite put my finger on what that "something" was.

Phil Simms put the Shockey implosion into perspective when he acknowledged how badly he, Simms, felt being on the sidelines during the Super Bowl. He remarked that by half time he HAD to leave because he just felt he didn't belong. He was not justifying Shockey's antics but trying to say you just don't know how it feels unless you've been there. He was referring to helping you team get to the Big Game and then not being able to play.

You may recall all of the detractors climbing all over Shockey for being in a suite as opposed to being on the sidelines on crutches. It was later revealed he couldn't be on the sidelines BECAUSE he was on crutches. I knew we have lost all perspective when a huge deal was made of a bottle of beer being in front of Shockey during the game.


I hear you on this. I wasn't being a wise guy -- well, not TOO much of one -- when I referred to Shockey's hurt feelings after not being able to participate. I really can relate to that.

He just isn't one who can handle something like that in a way that most would call "grace". Not everyone can.

Having said that, there is the fact that Kiwinuka, with the identical injury as Shockey's--albeit suffered 3-4 weeks prior to Shockey--did in fact ignore the directive which Shockey obeyed, and found a way to be on the sidelines that game.

It's just a matter of attitude, I think. Shockey has his. Some people are fine with it, others are not. I always thought some made way too much of him being up in the booth, frankly. Hell, we wouldn't have even noticed (because of watching the--I don't know--the GAME, maybe?) him up there if the broadcasting network hadn't thought it was interesting enough to show for awhile.

Some here would eat their young and then biotch about the gas [:D]


Yeah, I know mine cause me gas, but I just have another lager and it makes it go away.

[Y]

miked1958
03-09-2012, 12:59 AM
My question is, how badly will this screw up our cap for next year? Things like this scare me:

<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
<span>?</span>
<span class="username js-action-profile-name"><s>@</s>TheBlueScreen</span></a>
<ul class="actions js-actions"><li class="action-open-container">
<span class="separator"></span><span class="open-tweet" title="Open Tweet"></span> (https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen/status/177790258912567296)His cap number is now $9.6M for this
season, which is nearly $7M less than it was. ... It balloons to over
$20M next year, though. <s>#</s>NYG (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23NYG)
[/list]Can they redo it again next season and spread it out over more years to make it more Cap friendly?

MattMeyerBud
03-09-2012, 08:47 AM
My question is, how badly will this screw up our cap for next year? Things like this scare me:

<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
<span>?</span>
<span class="username js-action-profile-name"><s>@</s>TheBlueScreen</span></a>
<ul class="actions js-actions"><li class="action-open-container">
<span class="separator"></span><span class="open-tweet" title="Open Tweet"></span> (https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen/status/177790258912567296)His cap number is now $9.6M for this
season, which is nearly $7M less than it was. ... It balloons to over
$20M next year, though. <s>#</s>NYG (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23NYG)
[/list]Can they redo it again next season and spread it out over more years to make it more Cap friendly?

Yea but that last year is increasing just as much as last year is.

It really doesn't matter though because the Giants will probably extend eli before the last season on his deal and just work on spreading the numbers out because by then we should have our cap situation under control - hopfully

Pray for Jerry to draft like a god

bLuereverie
03-09-2012, 08:49 AM
My question is, how badly will this screw up our cap for next year? Things like this scare me:

<a class="account-group js-account-group js-action-profile js-user-profile-link" href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen" data-user-id="40679590"><strong class="fullname js-action-profile-name">Ralph Vacchiano[/b]
<span>?</span>
<span class="username js-action-profile-name"><s>@</s>TheBlueScreen</span></a>
<ul class="actions js-actions"><li class="action-open-container">
<span class="separator"></span><span class="open-tweet" title="Open Tweet"></span> (https://twitter.com/#%21/TheBlueScreen/status/177790258912567296)His cap number is now $9.6M for this
season, which is nearly $7M less than it was. ... It balloons to over
$20M next year, though. <s>#</s>NYG (https://twitter.com/#%21/search/%23NYG)
[/list]Can they redo it again next season and spread it out over more years to make it more Cap friendly?

You mean in an extension? Yes.

miked1958
03-09-2012, 10:27 AM
Hey Guys. I didnt get time to read the whole 9 pages of this Thread. Because of that I didnt make a whole new Thread with my question, because it is prob Answered somewhere in this Thread Already. </P>


</P>


Please point me to where the answer might have been discussed.</P>


With what Eli did going from the 10.75 to 1.75 Million for this year&lt; it helps our Cap Space tremendously. What can the Giants do with this space max? I guess I mean. How many guys do you project we can actually get resigned using this Cap Space Eli created and who do you think they will be? Weatherford, TT? Give me some Ideas of what types of deals they can make with their FAs using this freed up Space. </P>


Also how much trouble will we be in next season(2013 season)with the Redos Eli did? Wont we owe him like 20m? Can that be spread out or no?</P>

Drez
03-09-2012, 10:54 AM
With what Eli did going from the 10.75 to 1.75 Million for this year&lt; it helps our Cap Space tremendously. What can the Giants do with this space max? I guess I mean. How many guys do you project we can actually get resigned using this Cap Space Eli created... We ended up saving $6.75m against the cap with Eli's restructure. That being said, we still project to be around $1m over the cap (or what they think the cap will be). It'll definitely go along way to help resigning some guys once we finally get below the cap. But, even with Eli restrcuturing we still have some work to do to get below the cap



Also how much trouble will we be in next season(2013 season)with the Redos Eli did? Wont we owe him like 20m? Can that be spread out or no? Yeah, the restructure helps this season, but is going to make next year and future years cap numbers all the worse. The only true way you can get relief from that is to extend Eli to spread the bonus money out over more years. </P>


Luckily, the new TV deals kick in in 2014 and that should cause a pretty significant increase in the cap.</P>

miked1958
03-09-2012, 11:09 AM
With what Eli did going from the 10.75 to 1.75 Million for this year&lt; it helps our Cap Space tremendously. What can the Giants do with this space max? I guess I mean. How many guys do you project we can actually get resigned using this Cap Space Eli created... We ended up saving $6.75m against the cap with Eli's restructure. That being said, we still project to be around $1m over the cap (or what they think the cap will be). It'll definitely go along way to help resigning some guys once we finally get below the cap. But, even with Eli restrcuturing we still have some work to do to get below the cap



Also how much trouble will we be in next season(2013 season)with the Redos Eli did? Wont we owe him like 20m? Can that be spread out or no? Yeah, the restructure helps this season, but is going to make next year and future years cap numbers all the worse. The only true way you can get relief from that is to extend Eli to spread the bonus money out over more years. </P>


Luckily, the new TV deals kick in in 2014 and that should cause a pretty significant increase in the cap.</P>


</P>


So I guess Eli can exend his deal before its over and really spread out the money over a number of years. </P>


Where else can we get Cap Space? Doesnt sound like BJ is on board to LOSE money. Also I have not heard a thing about Canty? He was huge for us last season but i think he is grossly overpaid. IF some of these guys TRUELY want to keep the CORE together and win more Rings vs just making MORE and MORE Millions then they should all take a look at what they can do to help get some guys back on board.</P>


I guess other then that, we will have to CUT Ties with alot of guys, like it or not. that would be the only way to free up space. Cut some to be able to resign others. sad</P>

Drez
03-09-2012, 12:40 PM
With what Eli did going from the 10.75 to 1.75 Million for this year&lt; it helps our Cap Space tremendously. What can the Giants do with this space max? I guess I mean. How many guys do you project we can actually get resigned using this Cap Space Eli created... We ended up saving $6.75m against the cap with Eli's restructure. That being said, we still project to be around $1m over the cap (or what they think the cap will be). It'll definitely go along way to help resigning some guys once we finally get below the cap. But, even with Eli restrcuturing we still have some work to do to get below the cap



Also how much trouble will we be in next season(2013 season)with the Redos Eli did? Wont we owe him like 20m? Can that be spread out or no? Yeah, the restructure helps this season, but is going to make next year and future years cap numbers all the worse. The only true way you can get relief from that is to extend Eli to spread the bonus money out over more years. </P>


Luckily, the new TV deals kick in in 2014 and that should cause a pretty significant increase in the cap.</P>


</P>


So I guess Eli can exend his deal before its over and really spread out the money over a number of years. </P>


Where else can we get Cap Space? Doesnt sound like BJ is on board to LOSE money. Also I have not heard a thing about Canty? He was huge for us last season but i think he is grossly overpaid. IF some of these guys TRUELY want to keep the CORE together and win more Rings vs just making MORE and MORE Millions then they should all take a look at what they can do to help get some guys back on board.</P>


I guess other then that, we will have to CUT Ties with alot of guys, like it or not. that would be the only way to free up space. Cut some to be able to resign others. sad</P>


</P>


BJ is probably going to get cut if he doesn't want to take a pay cut. I think frees up $4m-5mof cap space, though I'm not sure how much, if any, guaranteed money he has left on his contract.</P>


Canty is making what he deserves. DTs of his caliber make similar salaries. He could be a candidate for restructuring, but definitely not taking a paycut. Canty is one of those guys that got a bad rap in his first year here due to his injury (and unreasonable expectations), that no matter how well he's played since people just won't let go and give him the credit he deserves.</P>

G-Man67
03-09-2012, 04:46 PM
it will help, i know Eli isn't making a charitable contribution here, but it's good to get this done early and free up a little more space</P>

Itlan
03-09-2012, 11:55 PM
The question is, who do we sign with the added cap room? Maybe Eli wants Manningham back badly, and why he made the"hard" choice of getting 9 million now.

"The Giants have restructured Eli Manning's contract in order to save roughly $6.75 million in salary cap space. Manning's base salary, which was previously $10.75 million, was dropped to $1.75 million and he received a $9 million "signing" bonus to be paid immediately. The move lowers Manning's 2012 cap number from $16.35 million to $9.6 million, but his future cap numbers will all be in the $20 million range. It does give the Giants more freedom to sign other players in free agency. "

we're still over the cap and have only made three signing for 1.6 mil and had eli cut 7 mil off us cap number
Interesting, since the cap numbers still haven't been made official. I'd like to know where you're getting these numbers from, cause you're way off lol.

The CAP is so complicated it's not easy to give a definitive answer to what it is at any given moment.* What's important is that we don't have tens of millions of dollars to spend.
I understand this, but MMB is speaking like HE creates the cap, when in reality, he knows absolutely nothing lol.