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View Full Version : 2 Mocks (Post Pro Day) - Which Do You Like Better?



Kruunch
03-26-2012, 04:21 PM
Getting closer to pinning down my final picks as the draft boards start to settle after the Pro Days (although a few are still left).

1) Mark Barron (SS)
2) Kelechi Osemele (OG)
3) Ladarius Green (TE)
4) Chris Rainey (RB)
4) Coryell Judie (CB)
5) Marvin McNutt (WR)
6) Andrew Datko (OT)
7) Vaughn Meatoga (DT)

- OR -

1) Coby Fleener (TE)
2) Kelechi Osemele (OG)
3) Robert Turbin (RB)
4) Juron Criner (WR)
4) Coryell Judie (CB)
5) Marvin McNutt (WR)
6) Andrew Datko (OT)
7) Donte Paige-Moss (DE)

*EDIT*: updated to reflect our 4th round compensatory pick.

lawl
03-26-2012, 07:12 PM
Not interested in a safety in the first round.

I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.

gmen0820
03-26-2012, 07:25 PM
Not interested in a safety in the first round.

I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.1. Stephen Hill
2. Jared Crick
3. LaMichael James

Harlem2va
03-26-2012, 07:38 PM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game & NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!!

lawl
03-26-2012, 07:53 PM
Not interested in a safety in the first round.

I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.1. Stephen Hill
2. Jared Crick
3. LaMichael James

Bada bing, bada boom

lawl
03-26-2012, 07:54 PM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game & NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!!

I think WR de and dt are all more likely than a LBer. Just my thoughts

Kruunch
03-26-2012, 08:30 PM
Not interested in a safety in the first round.

I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.

I don't see us taking a DT early just from an availability standpoint (unless we reach for one which I doubt).

Historically Reese seems to treat the running back situation lightly. There are a few in this draft I wouldn't mind seeing on the Giants ... just not sure where he'll end up picking one.

I could us making a solid stab at a WR ... I don't think Stephen Hill ... but they were looking at Sanu (assumably as a 2nd round pick).

Kruunch
03-26-2012, 08:33 PM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game & NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!!

Reese doesn't seem to like LBers in the first round (or at all) and the only Oline I see us getting in the first are either Mike Adams - OT (which everyone as soured on after a poor Combine) or reaching slightly for Zeitler - OG (and we really don't need an OG).

That leaves Fleener - TE from your list which I could see us grabbing if he's available.

Not sure why everyone is down on Mark Barron, but he'll most likely be BPA if he's available and Kenny Philips is a free agent next year (not to mention having the ability to lose Rolle as a cap casualty if we need to in the near future).

lawl
03-26-2012, 08:49 PM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game & NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!!

Reese doesn't seem to like LBers in the first round (or at all) and the only Oline I see us getting in the first are either Mike Adams - OT (which everyone as soured on after a poor Combine) or reaching slightly for Zeitler - OG (and we really don't need an OG).

That leaves Fleener - TE from your list which I could see us grabbing if he's available.

Not sure why everyone is down on Mark Barron, but he'll most likely be BPA if he's available and Kenny Philips is a free agent next year (not to mention having the ability to lose Rolle as a cap casualty if we need to in the near future).

I'm also convinced that still worthy or brockers is going to fall to us. Having a dt allows us to lose canty as a cap casualty. Having a WR insures us for the grand possibility of losing Cruz or nicks. Not to mention having someone to rely on when nicks is hurt.

Kenny can be extended for much cheaper than Cruz or nicks.

Kruunch
03-27-2012, 10:38 AM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game & NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!!

Reese doesn't seem to like LBers in the first round (or at all) and the only Oline I see us getting in the first are either Mike Adams - OT (which everyone as soured on after a poor Combine) or reaching slightly for Zeitler - OG (and we really don't need an OG).

That leaves Fleener - TE from your list which I could see us grabbing if he's available.

Not sure why everyone is down on Mark Barron, but he'll most likely be BPA if he's available and Kenny Philips is a free agent next year (not to mention having the ability to lose Rolle as a cap casualty if we need to in the near future).

I'm also convinced that still worthy or brockers is going to fall to us. Having a dt allows us to lose canty as a cap casualty. Having a WR insures us for the grand possibility of losing Cruz or nicks. Not to mention having someone to rely on when nicks is hurt.

Kenny can be extended for much cheaper than Cruz or nicks.

I can get behind that logic. If none of those names fell to us, would you go with Kendal Reyes (DT) or would you be looking at Stephen Hill at that point (or another WR in the first)?

GGTM_1977
03-27-2012, 10:53 AM
The people on here saying they would turn down an early round choice of WR are being foolish. Who do we have for quality depth behind Nicks & Cruz? Barden is gone.....I don't see him panning out. Jernigan is a hopeful, we will prob see more of him this year. HIxon.....don't know about him, I like him, but injured wayyyy tooo often. Who else do we have that can provied quality depth? This is the thing, everyone is quick to dump on MM after him leaving, but when he was here, if say Nicks goes down for a game or 2, MM slide into the #2 role nicely so we don't lose a beat. Now if Nicks/Cruz goes down, who do you sub in?

GMENAGAIN
03-27-2012, 10:58 AM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game &amp; NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!! Reese doesn't seem to like LBers in the first round (or at all) and the only Oline I see us getting in the first are either Mike Adams - OT (which everyone as soured on after a poor Combine) or reaching slightly for Zeitler - OG (and we really don't need an OG). That leaves Fleener - TE from your list which I could see us grabbing if he's available. Not sure why everyone is down on Mark Barron, but he'll most likely be BPA if he's available and Kenny Philips is a free agent next year (not to mention having the ability to lose Rolle as a cap casualty if we need to in the near future). I'm also convinced that still worthy or brockers is going to fall to us. <FONT size=4>Having a dt allows us to lose canty as a cap casualty.</FONT> Having a WR insures us for the grand possibility of losing Cruz or nicks. Not to mention having someone to rely on when nicks is hurt. Kenny can be extended for much cheaper than Cruz or nicks.</P>


Also, JR in a recent interview said that he was "worried" about Marvin Austin. DT is definitely in the mix for us . . . . . </P>


</P>

Kruunch
03-27-2012, 11:06 AM
The people on here saying they would turn down an early round choice of WR are being foolish. Who do we have for quality depth behind Nicks & Cruz? Barden is gone.....I don't see him panning out. Jernigan is a hopeful, we will prob see more of him this year. HIxon.....don't know about him, I like him, but injured wayyyy tooo often. Who else do we have that can provied quality depth? This is the thing, everyone is quick to dump on MM after him leaving, but when he was here, if say Nicks goes down for a game or 2, MM slide into the #2 role nicely so we don't lose a beat. Now if Nicks/Cruz goes down, who do you sub in?

The same way we've survived losing Plax, the retirement of Amanni Toomer, the loss of Steve Smith and the various injuries to Nicks and MM over the past two years.

I don't think anyone is saying don't draft a receiver ... I'm not sure the quality is there in the first round however (and I include Stephen Hill in that).

Kruunch
03-27-2012, 11:12 AM
Not interested in a safety in the first round.

I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.1. Stephen Hill
2. Jared Crick
3. LaMichael James

1) Hill is a Combine phenom but has mediocre hands. He was a 4th round prospect a month ago.

2) Jared Crick projects as a 3-tech 3-4 DE and doesn't have the elite pass rush qualities the Giants crave.

3) I like LaMichael James (I have a feeling he'll fall between two of our picks though).

GMENAGAIN
03-27-2012, 11:23 AM
Not interested in a safety in the first round. I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.1. Stephen Hill 2. Jared Crick 3. LaMichael James 1) Hill is a Combine phenom but has mediocre hands. He was a 4th round prospect a month ago. 2) Jared Crick projects as a 3-tech 3-4 DE and doesn't have the elite pass rush qualities the Giants crave. 3) I like LaMichael James (I have a feeling he'll fall between two of our picks though).</P>


Do you think that McNutt will last until the 5th?</P>

Kruunch
03-27-2012, 12:19 PM
Not interested in a safety in the first round. I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.1. Stephen Hill 2. Jared Crick 3. LaMichael James 1) Hill is a Combine phenom but has mediocre hands. He was a 4th round prospect a month ago. 2) Jared Crick projects as a 3-tech 3-4 DE and doesn't have the elite pass rush qualities the Giants crave. 3) I like LaMichael James (I have a feeling he'll fall between two of our picks though).</P>


Do you think that McNutt will last until the 5th?</P>

Very possibly. McNutt is a prototypical possession receiver. Polished route running with great hands. No real explosion and lacks elite speed.

In today's NFL, teams don't get overly hyped over possession receivers ... however we have two play-making studs so it fits what we need very well (and at value no less).

Incidentally, Nicks is signed through 2013 and Cruz is pretty much our captive (RFA in 2013). So the "desperation" some people are assigning to our WR needs is a little melodramatic imo.

Having said that, we've also worked out Mohamed Sanu who is projected to be a second round pick for us.

Kase-1
03-27-2012, 12:32 PM
Getting closer to pinning down my final picks as the draft boards start to settle after the Pro Days (although a few are still left).

1) Mark Barron (SS)
2) Kelechi Osemele (OG)
3) Ladarius Green (TE)
4) Chris Rainey (RB)
4) Coryell Judie (CB)
5) Marvin McNutt (WR)
6) Andrew Datko (OT)
7) Vaughn Meatoga (DT)

- OR -

1) Coby Fleener (TE)
2) Kelechi Osemele (OG)
3) Robert Turbin (RB)
4) Juron Criner (WR)
4) Coryell Judie (CB)
5) Marvin McNutt (WR)
6) Andrew Datko (OT)
7) Donte Paige-Moss (DE)

*EDIT*: updated to reflect our 4th round compensatory pick.
In the 1st mock I really like Kelechi, Ladarius Green, Rainey, and Datko (who will probably go undrafted) but I just dont think Barron is worth a 1st round pick

lawl
03-27-2012, 01:20 PM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game & NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!!

Reese doesn't seem to like LBers in the first round (or at all) and the only Oline I see us getting in the first are either Mike Adams - OT (which everyone as soured on after a poor Combine) or reaching slightly for Zeitler - OG (and we really don't need an OG).

That leaves Fleener - TE from your list which I could see us grabbing if he's available.

Not sure why everyone is down on Mark Barron, but he'll most likely be BPA if he's available and Kenny Philips is a free agent next year (not to mention having the ability to lose Rolle as a cap casualty if we need to in the near future).

I'm also convinced that still worthy or brockers is going to fall to us. Having a dt allows us to lose canty as a cap casualty. Having a WR insures us for the grand possibility of losing Cruz or nicks. Not to mention having someone to rely on when nicks is hurt.

Kenny can be extended for much cheaper than Cruz or nicks.

I can get behind that logic. If none of those names fell to us, would you go with Kendal Reyes (DT) or would you be looking at Stephen Hill at that point (or another WR in the first)?

I'm on the Stephen hill bandwagon. a guy that can outrun a cover2 safety makes our offense difficult to defend. We don't have a guy that can blow the top off

Kruunch
03-27-2012, 02:44 PM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game & NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!!

Reese doesn't seem to like LBers in the first round (or at all) and the only Oline I see us getting in the first are either Mike Adams - OT (which everyone as soured on after a poor Combine) or reaching slightly for Zeitler - OG (and we really don't need an OG).

That leaves Fleener - TE from your list which I could see us grabbing if he's available.

Not sure why everyone is down on Mark Barron, but he'll most likely be BPA if he's available and Kenny Philips is a free agent next year (not to mention having the ability to lose Rolle as a cap casualty if we need to in the near future).

I'm also convinced that still worthy or brockers is going to fall to us. Having a dt allows us to lose canty as a cap casualty. Having a WR insures us for the grand possibility of losing Cruz or nicks. Not to mention having someone to rely on when nicks is hurt.

Kenny can be extended for much cheaper than Cruz or nicks.

I can get behind that logic. If none of those names fell to us, would you go with Kendal Reyes (DT) or would you be looking at Stephen Hill at that point (or another WR in the first)?

I'm on the Stephen hill bandwagon. a guy that can outrun a cover2 safety makes our offense difficult to defend. We don't have a guy that can blow the top off

Doesn't mean squat if the guy who is beating everyone drops the ball.

I see Stephen Hill and all i can think of is Rocket Ismail. Al Davis is probably drooling in his coffin.

Kruunch
03-27-2012, 02:46 PM
In the 1st mock I really like Kelechi, Ladarius Green, Rainey, and Datko (who will probably go undrafted) but I just dont think Barron is worth a 1st round pick


Have you seen Barron play?! He's the definition of "playmaker".

My only concern with Barron is that he plays too big for his body (ala Bob Sanders which he reminds me of A LOT) which is why he gets those weird injuries (torn pec, sports hernia, etc ...).

Kids' chock full of talent though.

Kase-1
03-27-2012, 02:54 PM
In the 1st mock I really like Kelechi, Ladarius Green, Rainey, and Datko (who will probably go undrafted) but I just dont think Barron is worth a 1st round pick


Have you seen Barron play?! He's the definition of "playmaker".

My only concern with Barron is that he plays too big for his body (ala Bob Sanders which he reminds me of A LOT) which is why he gets those weird injuries (torn pec, sports hernia, etc ...).

Kids' chock full of talent though.Is he really that good or is he just in a really good D and a product of the system and the talent around him??


I wont lie, the kid looks good on tape but im just not 100% sold on him. He has few weaknesses, i dunno maybe I gotta give him another shot

Kruunch
03-27-2012, 03:04 PM
In the 1st mock I really like Kelechi, Ladarius Green, Rainey, and Datko (who will probably go undrafted) but I just dont think Barron is worth a 1st round pick


Have you seen Barron play?! He's the definition of "playmaker".

My only concern with Barron is that he plays too big for his body (ala Bob Sanders which he reminds me of A LOT) which is why he gets those weird injuries (torn pec, sports hernia, etc ...).

Kids' chock full of talent though.Is he really that good or is he just in a really good D and a product of the system and the talent around him??


I wont lie, the kid looks good on tape but im just not 100% sold on him.* He has few weaknesses, i dunno maybe I gotta give him another shot



2010 (Pro / Con): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmCX6Jxmjb8

2011 Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TnM7CIHATw

You can see that a lot of what he does is either pure solo effort, or he being the catalyst for the play.

If anything, guys like Donta Hightower are getting a higher grade then they deserve because of Barron.

Kid can blitz, drop in the box, run support, cover the middle and cover deep (stride for stride no less).

He totally head hunts runners (legal in the NFL) and is very clean against receivers. Amazing vertical and broad and flat speed (check the highlights).

Negatives: Plays hard (just throws himself into people) which will tell on his body, and gambles occasionally (some would say too much but he doesn't get beat often so ...).

If you (as the scouting guy / GM) feel he can last physically, how can you not like this kid?

lawl
03-27-2012, 06:43 PM
I'm not a Draft Guru just a big-time fan who follows and love the game & NY Giants, I can tell you that Reese is not taking Barron in the first round!! Fleener could be in play, but it's going to be the best TE,LB, Offensive lineman on the board with the first round selection. If none of those position have a player Reese think worth a first round selection, then it's anybodies guess with Reese!!

Reese doesn't seem to like LBers in the first round (or at all) and the only Oline I see us getting in the first are either Mike Adams - OT (which everyone as soured on after a poor Combine) or reaching slightly for Zeitler - OG (and we really don't need an OG).

That leaves Fleener - TE from your list which I could see us grabbing if he's available.

Not sure why everyone is down on Mark Barron, but he'll most likely be BPA if he's available and Kenny Philips is a free agent next year (not to mention having the ability to lose Rolle as a cap casualty if we need to in the near future).

I'm also convinced that still worthy or brockers is going to fall to us. Having a dt allows us to lose canty as a cap casualty. Having a WR insures us for the grand possibility of losing Cruz or nicks. Not to mention having someone to rely on when nicks is hurt.

Kenny can be extended for much cheaper than Cruz or nicks.

I can get behind that logic. If none of those names fell to us, would you go with Kendal Reyes (DT) or would you be looking at Stephen Hill at that point (or another WR in the first)?

I'm on the Stephen hill bandwagon. a guy that can outrun a cover2 safety makes our offense difficult to defend. We don't have a guy that can blow the top off

Doesn't mean squat if the guy who is beating everyone drops the ball.

I see Stephen Hill and all i can think of is Rocket Ismail. Al Davis is probably drooling in his coffin.

It does mean squat. If he's taking the safety with him, then nicks or cruz is singled up.

If he doesn't take the safety then im sure he's good enough to catch it enough times that a safety will get rolled to his side.

I think you exaggerate his lack of hands.

Kruunch
03-28-2012, 11:09 AM
It does mean squat. If he's taking the safety with him, then nicks or cruz is singled up.

If he doesn't take the safety then im sure he's good enough to catch it enough times that a safety will get rolled to his side.

I think you exaggerate his lack of hands.

Like I said ... that only really works if he catches the ball. And if he's that fast in pads. And if he can shuck a jam. Alot of "ifs" for a first rounder no?

Regarding his hands, that's the whole point ... we just don't know. We're talking about a WR with less than 50 career receptions in college in THREE years..

If you look at our other high WR picks under Reese:

Nicks: 181 receptions in college
Smith: 173 receptions
Manningham: 137 receptions
Jernigan: 262 receptions

Stephen Hill: 49 receptions

Stephen Hill just doesn't have a body of work to justify a first round flyer.

nycsportzfan
03-28-2012, 11:20 AM
Getting closer to pinning down my final picks as the draft boards start to settle after the Pro Days (although a few are still left). 1) Mark Barron (SS) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Ladarius Green (TE) 4) Chris Rainey (RB) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Vaughn Meatoga (DT) - OR - 1) Coby Fleener (TE) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Robert Turbin (RB) 4) Juron Criner (WR) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Donte Paige-Moss (DE) *EDIT*: updated to reflect our 4th round compensatory pick. I don't see Osemele lasting untill the last pick of RD 2.. To be honest, he has a better chance at being our 1st rder, then our 2nd, and i don't see Datko or McNutt lasting untill the last pick of RD 5 and 6 either... I also think someone will take a shot on Paige Moss before the last pick of RD 7 as well... I think Criner goes well before the last pick in RD 4 as well..

Kruunch
03-28-2012, 11:23 AM
Getting closer to pinning down my final picks as the draft boards start to settle after the Pro Days (although a few are still left). 1) Mark Barron (SS) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Ladarius Green (TE) 4) Chris Rainey (RB) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Vaughn Meatoga (DT) - OR - 1) Coby Fleener (TE) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Robert Turbin (RB) 4) Juron Criner (WR) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Donte Paige-Moss (DE) *EDIT*: updated to reflect our 4th round compensatory pick.* I don't see Osemele lasting untill the last pick of RD 2.. To be honest, he has a better chance at being our 1st rder, then our 2nd, and i don't see Datko or McNutt lasting untill the last pick of RD 5 and 6 either... I also think someone will take a shot on Paige Moss before the last pick of RD 7 as well... I think Criner goes well before the last pick in RD 4 as well..**

Possibly but my picks are in line with the NFL Scout Draft and CBS Sports Draft boards.

If I've reached ahead on anyone here it's Coryell Judie in the 5th.

Osemele is way too raw for a first round grade (or even a high second round pick), Datko has been a dark horse in this draft due to his injury and Donte Paige-Moss is a nobody (I've only really heard him hyped on these boards ... no where else). McNutt is a possession receiver ... I doubt he elicits much more excitement then he already has and probably less so on draft day as people start looking for projects to play with.

By the time you get past the 4th round, it's really all up for grabs (generally speaking).

nycsportzfan
03-28-2012, 06:59 PM
Getting closer to pinning down my final picks as the draft boards start to settle after the Pro Days (although a few are still left). 1) Mark Barron (SS) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Ladarius Green (TE) 4) Chris Rainey (RB) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Vaughn Meatoga (DT) - OR - 1) Coby Fleener (TE) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Robert Turbin (RB) 4) Juron Criner (WR) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Donte Paige-Moss (DE) *EDIT*: updated to reflect our 4th round compensatory pick. I don't see Osemele lasting untill the last pick of RD 2.. To be honest, he has a better chance at being our 1st rder, then our 2nd, and i don't see Datko or McNutt lasting untill the last pick of RD 5 and 6 either... I also think someone will take a shot on Paige Moss before the last pick of RD 7 as well... I think Criner goes well before the last pick in RD 4 as well.. Possibly but my picks are in line with the NFL Scout Draft and CBS Sports Draft boards. If I've reached ahead on anyone here it's Coryell Judie in the 5th. Osemele is way too raw for a first round grade (or even a high second round pick), Datko has been a dark horse in this draft due to his injury and Donte Paige-Moss is a nobody (I've only really heard him hyped on these boards ... no where else). McNutt is a possession receiver ... I doubt he elicits much more excitement then he already has and probably less so on draft day as people start looking for projects to play with. By the time you get past the 4th round, it's really all up for grabs (generally speaking). Osemele isn't raw.. He was a standout RT in high school and has played in every game starting at LT over the past 2yrs and the yr before that he played in 11games, and his redshirt season, he was offensive scout team player of the yr.. I would bet my house on it, that hes not on the board with the last pick of RD 2... McNutt and Criner have to much on field production and size to be going last pick of RD 4 and 5 respectively, especially at a prime positon like WR... I just don't see it.. Seems like a dreamy mock more then anything, which is fine by me.. We all have dreams...lol

lawl
03-28-2012, 07:01 PM
It does mean squat. If he's taking the safety with him, then nicks or cruz is singled up.

If he doesn't take the safety then im sure he's good enough to catch it enough times that a safety will get rolled to his side.

I think you exaggerate his lack of hands.

Like I said ... that only really works if he catches the ball. And if he's that fast in pads. And if he can shuck a jam. Alot of "ifs" for a first rounder no?

Regarding his hands, that's the whole point ... we just don't know. We're talking about a WR with less than 50 career receptions in college in THREE years..

If you look at our other high WR picks under Reese:

Nicks: 181 receptions in college
Smith: 173 receptions
Manningham: 137 receptions
Jernigan: 262 receptions

Stephen Hill: 49 receptions

Stephen Hill just doesn't have a body of work to justify a first round flyer.

He's a physical player. Indicated by his run blocking.

Jpp had a very small body of work as well.

Kruunch
03-29-2012, 10:03 AM
Getting closer to pinning down my final picks as the draft boards start to settle after the Pro Days (although a few are still left). 1) Mark Barron (SS) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Ladarius Green (TE) 4) Chris Rainey (RB) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Vaughn Meatoga (DT) - OR - 1) Coby Fleener (TE) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Robert Turbin (RB) 4) Juron Criner (WR) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Donte Paige-Moss (DE) *EDIT*: updated to reflect our 4th round compensatory pick.* I don't see Osemele lasting untill the last pick of RD 2.. To be honest, he has a better chance at being our 1st rder, then our 2nd, and i don't see Datko or McNutt lasting untill the last pick of RD 5 and 6 either... I also think someone will take a shot on Paige Moss before the last pick of RD 7 as well... I think Criner goes well before the last pick in RD 4 as well..** Possibly but my picks are in line with the NFL Scout Draft and CBS Sports Draft boards. If I've reached ahead on anyone here it's Coryell Judie in the 5th. Osemele is way too raw for a first round grade (or even a high second round pick), Datko has been a dark horse in this draft due to his injury and Donte Paige-Moss is a nobody (I've only really heard him hyped on these boards ... no where else). McNutt is a possession receiver ... I doubt he elicits much more excitement then he already has and probably less so on draft day as people start looking for projects to play with. By the time you get past the 4th round, it's really all up for grabs (generally speaking).* Osemele isn't raw.. He was a standout RT in high school and has played in every game starting at LT over the past 2yrs and the yr before that he played in 11games, and his redshirt season, he was offensive scout team player of the yr..** I would bet my house on it, that hes not on the board with the last pick of RD 2...** McNutt and Criner have to much on field production and size to be going last pick of RD 4 and 5 respectively, especially at a prime positon like WR...** I just don't see it..* Seems like a dreamy mock more then anything, which is fine by me.. We all have dreams...lol*

Several dozen draft experts disagree with you.

Osemele projects as an OG ... most likely because he'll get absolutely torched by speed rushers. He plays with more physical force then technique which is why I say he's raw (which is another reason he's projected to move him inside). He might go earlier when we pick in the second yes ... he might also drop to the third since he's a project player at best in year one.

As for your other observations I think you're just flat wrong.

But we all have our opinions and mine is no more/less valid.

Kruunch
03-29-2012, 10:20 AM
It does mean squat. If he's taking the safety with him, then nicks or cruz is singled up.

If he doesn't take the safety then im sure he's good enough to catch it enough times that a safety will get rolled to his side.

I think you exaggerate his lack of hands.

Like I said ... that only really works if he catches the ball. And if he's that fast in pads. And if he can shuck a jam. Alot of "ifs" for a first rounder no?

Regarding his hands, that's the whole point ... we just don't know. We're talking about a WR with less than 50 career receptions in college in THREE years..

If you look at our other high WR picks under Reese:

Nicks: 181 receptions in college
Smith: 173 receptions
Manningham: 137 receptions
Jernigan: 262 receptions

Stephen Hill: 49 receptions

Stephen Hill just doesn't have a body of work to justify a first round flyer.

He's a physical player. Indicated by his run blocking.

Jpp had a very small body of work as well.

JPP doesn't play a skill position ... compare apples to apples please.

Ever see Hill play? He's not nearly as fast on tape as his Combine times would indicate. He isn't blowing the doors off people.

And keep in mind he plays in an option offense ... where he deals with stuffed boxes and man coverage. He's not going to have that luxury in the NFL.

He has awful balance (trips all over himself) and mediocre hands (not bad but not particularly good either).

His best quality (imo) is what you mentioned ... he's physical and has strong hands. However to your point, he's not Mike Wallace ... he's not going to stretch the field for us (any more then our current crop do at any rate).

And oh yeah ... he knows two routes; the dig and go.

I just don't see him as a first round talent based on his body of work and his tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kQWb4NXvJc

Kase-1
03-29-2012, 11:31 AM
Getting closer to pinning down my final picks as the draft boards start to settle after the Pro Days (although a few are still left). 1) Mark Barron (SS) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Ladarius Green (TE) 4) Chris Rainey (RB) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Vaughn Meatoga (DT) - OR - 1) Coby Fleener (TE) 2) Kelechi Osemele (OG) 3) Robert Turbin (RB) 4) Juron Criner (WR) 4) Coryell Judie (CB) 5) Marvin McNutt (WR) 6) Andrew Datko (OT) 7) Donte Paige-Moss (DE) *EDIT*: updated to reflect our 4th round compensatory pick. I don't see Osemele lasting untill the last pick of RD 2.. To be honest, he has a better chance at being our 1st rder, then our 2nd, and i don't see Datko or McNutt lasting untill the last pick of RD 5 and 6 either... I also think someone will take a shot on Paige Moss before the last pick of RD 7 as well... I think Criner goes well before the last pick in RD 4 as well.. Possibly but my picks are in line with the NFL Scout Draft and CBS Sports Draft boards. If I've reached ahead on anyone here it's Coryell Judie in the 5th. Osemele is way too raw for a first round grade (or even a high second round pick), Datko has been a dark horse in this draft due to his injury and Donte Paige-Moss is a nobody (I've only really heard him hyped on these boards ... no where else). McNutt is a possession receiver ... I doubt he elicits much more excitement then he already has and probably less so on draft day as people start looking for projects to play with. By the time you get past the 4th round, it's really all up for grabs (generally speaking). Osemele isn't raw.. He was a standout RT in high school and has played in every game starting at LT over the past 2yrs and the yr before that he played in 11games, and his redshirt season, he was offensive scout team player of the yr.. I would bet my house on it, that hes not on the board with the last pick of RD 2... McNutt and Criner have to much on field production and size to be going last pick of RD 4 and 5 respectively, especially at a prime positon like WR... I just don't see it.. Seems like a dreamy mock more then anything, which is fine by me.. We all have dreams...lol

Several dozen draft experts disagree with you.

Osemele projects as an OG ... most likely because he'll get absolutely torched by speed rushers. He plays with more physical force then technique which is why I say he's raw (which is another reason he's projected to move him inside). He might go earlier when we pick in the second yes ... he might also drop to the third since he's a project player at best in year one.

As for your other observations I think you're just flat wrong.

But we all have our opinions and mine is no more/less valid.Most of the draft sites that I use have been projecting him as either an OG who can step in rookie year and be a monster, OR as a RT who will need a year or so of grooming and then could be a force for years to come. He's not strictly an OG but he IS very 'raw'

The more I watch videos of him, the more Im a fan of Juron Criner in the middle rounds

Kruunch
03-29-2012, 12:03 PM
Most of the draft sites that I use have been projecting him as either an OG who can step in rookie year and be a monster, OR as a RT who will need a year or so of grooming and then could be a force for years to come.* He's not strictly an OG but he IS very 'raw'

The more I watch videos of him, the more Im a fan of Juron Criner in the middle rounds


That's the same thing I've read about Osemele and I could see us taking him in the second if he's available. His appeal is his versatility and size. The debate is whether his athleticism holds up (he plays a lot faster then his size shoud normally allow).

Criner is interesting. The fear with him is that he peaked in the 2010 season and he continues to fall off from there. He shows flashes of brilliance which is the draw ... but much less consistant in 2011 which is the detraction (and hence the 4th round grade). Has good hands but tends to run before actually catching (causing a lot of easy drops). Excellent balance and YAC. Needs some work on his route running (noticed he's very lazy selling the inside-out).

Here's a great video of him (both good and bad) in 23011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptuq-mLgfeM&feature=related

He's not nearly as polished or as consistant as Mohamed Sanu but we also don't need a starter candidate going into camp ... we have time to develop him.

I wouldn't mind him being our WR pick if we decide to go in a different direction earlier in the draft. He has upside but I would temper my expectations (inconsistancy being what it is).

Kase-1
03-29-2012, 12:29 PM
Most of the draft sites that I use have been projecting him as either an OG who can step in rookie year and be a monster, OR as a RT who will need a year or so of grooming and then could be a force for years to come. He's not strictly an OG but he IS very 'raw'

The more I watch videos of him, the more Im a fan of Juron Criner in the middle rounds


That's the same thing I've read about Osemele and I could see us taking him in the second if he's available. His appeal is his versatility and size. The debate is whether his athleticism holds up (he plays a lot faster then his size shoud normally allow).

Criner is interesting. The fear with him is that he peaked in the 2010 season and he continues to fall off from there. He shows flashes of brilliance which is the draw ... but much less consistant in 2011 which is the detraction (and hence the 4th round grade). Has good hands but tends to run before actually catching (causing a lot of easy drops). Excellent balance and YAC. Needs some work on his route running (noticed he's very lazy selling the inside-out).

Here's a great video of him (both good and bad) in 23011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptuq-mLgfeM&amp;feature=related

He's not nearly as polished or as consistant as Mohamed Sanu but we also don't need a starter candidate going into camp ... we have time to develop him.

I wouldn't mind him being our WR pick if we decide to go in a different direction earlier in the draft. He has upside but I would temper my expectations (inconsistancy being what it is).Yea me and you are def on the same page when it comes to Osemele

If we needed a WR this season to step up and produce immediatley I would go with Sanu (he seems like a nasty run blocker in addition to a great pass catcher) but we have a year or so to get whoever we have in mind ready. I like the fact that Criner is a strictly outside WR so we could leave Cruz in the slot where he shines.

Kruunch
03-29-2012, 12:51 PM
Most of the draft sites that I use have been projecting him as either an OG who can step in rookie year and be a monster, OR as a RT who will need a year or so of grooming and then could be a force for years to come.* He's not strictly an OG but he IS very 'raw'

The more I watch videos of him, the more Im a fan of Juron Criner in the middle rounds


That's the same thing I've read about Osemele and I could see us taking him in the second if he's available. His appeal is his versatility and size. The debate is whether his athleticism holds up (he plays a lot faster then his size shoud normally allow).

Criner is interesting. The fear with him is that he peaked in the 2010 season and he continues to fall off from there. He shows flashes of brilliance which is the draw ... but much less consistant in 2011 which is the detraction (and hence the 4th round grade). Has good hands but tends to run before actually catching (causing a lot of easy drops). Excellent balance and YAC. Needs some work on his route running (noticed he's very lazy selling the inside-out).

Here's a great video of him (both good and bad) in 23011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptuq-mLgfeM&feature=related

He's not nearly as polished or as consistant as Mohamed Sanu but we also don't need a starter candidate going into camp ... we have time to develop him.

I wouldn't mind him being our WR pick if we decide to go in a different direction earlier in the draft. He has upside but I would temper my expectations (inconsistancy being what it is).Yea me and you are def on the same page when it comes to Osemele

If we needed a WR this season to step up and produce immediatley I would go with Sanu (he seems like a nasty run blocker in addition to a great pass catcher) but we have a year or so to get whoever we have in mind ready.* I like the fact that Criner is a strictly outside WR so we could leave Cruz in the slot where he shines.


I actually think Cruz works better on the outside personally. He's more natural there.

But he's learned the slot really well this year (and stopped running before the catch lol).

And I agree with you about Criner ... since we don't need the day 1 starter (hopefully ... our injury history being what it is) I'd rather take a late round flyer on Criner and shore up some more immediate needs earlier on (Oline, TE, RB, DT).

critters
04-05-2012, 12:56 PM
IMO... Reese most certainly WOULD take Mark Barron if he's still available. I just don't think he'll be available. If he lasts until the 2nd round, whoever gets him (on top of an early first round pick) will be having an INCREDIBLE draft.

gmen0820
04-05-2012, 01:54 PM
Not interested in a safety in the first round.

I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.1. Stephen Hill
2. Jared Crick
3. LaMichael JamesLittle change of heart on this.

1. Devon Still
2. Marvin Jones
3. Cyrus Gray or Bernard Pierce

Bada bing, bada boom

Kruunch
04-06-2012, 12:38 PM
I don't see Devon Still being available when we pick.

gmen0820
04-06-2012, 12:47 PM
I don't see Devon Still being available when we pick.Poe, Cox, Brockers won't be, Still has a great chance.

I don't see Barron being there.

Kruunch
04-06-2012, 01:08 PM
I don't see Devon Still being available when we pick.Poe, Cox, Brockers won't be, Still has a great chance.

I don't see Barron being there.

I agree about Barron ... too many teams need a Safety.

I'm thinking Kendall Reyes will be the best DT available in the first when we pick but either Still, Worthy or Reyes would be a solid first pick for us imo.

lawl
04-09-2012, 07:01 PM
Not interested in a safety in the first round. I think in this draft we need to come away with a top flight WR, pass catching RB and a damn good DT.1. Stephen Hill 2. Jared Crick 3. LaMichael JamesLittle change of heart on this. 1. Devon Still 2. Marvin Jones 3. Cyrus Gray or Bernard Pierce Bada bing, bada boom</P>


</P>


gray sounds good, he's already on my fantasy team. (along with martin blackmon and pead)</P>

Harlem2va
04-11-2012, 02:08 PM
We have eight picks, I might not name the players who reese picks but I think I know the position he'll look at.

1st Rd - TE/Offensive Lineman
2nd RD - WR/Offensive Lineman
3rd RD - RB/TE
4th RD - WR/LB
4th RD - RB
5th RD - DE
6th RD - Offensive Lineman
7th RD - LB/WR

I believe Reese with Draft 1 TE/1 Tackle/ 1 Guard / 1 or 2 RB/ 1 or 2 WR/ 1 LB/ 1 DE - if we trade for Keith Rivers then we draft an LB late!!

Kruunch
04-16-2012, 01:19 PM
We have eight picks, I might not name the players who reese picks but I think I know the position he'll look at.

1st Rd - TE/Offensive Lineman
2nd RD - WR/Offensive Lineman
3rd RD - RB/TE
4th RD - WR/LB
4th RD - RB
5th RD - DE
6th RD - Offensive Lineman
7th RD - LB/WR

I believe Reese with Draft 1 TE/1 Tackle/ 1 Guard / 1 or 2 RB/ 1 or 2 WR/ 1 LB/ 1 DE - if we trade for Keith Rivers then we draft an LB late!!

Doesn't usually work that way as one mis-pick might change your whole draft order (i.e. we probably wouldn't draft 3 DTs, if a really good one fell to us early).

I also totally disagree with your summary (2 LB picks and only one other late defensive pick? never happen).

nycsportzfan
04-16-2012, 02:55 PM
Most of the draft sites that I use have been projecting him as either an OG who can step in rookie year and be a monster, OR as a RT who will need a year or so of grooming and then could be a force for years to come. He's not strictly an OG but he IS very 'raw'

The more I watch videos of him, the more Im a fan of Juron Criner in the middle rounds
That's the same thing I've read about Osemele and I could see us taking him in the second if he's available. His appeal is his versatility and size. The debate is whether his athleticism holds up (he plays a lot faster then his size shoud normally allow). Criner is interesting. The fear with him is that he peaked in the 2010 season and he continues to fall off from there. He shows flashes of brilliance which is the draw ... but much less consistant in 2011 which is the detraction (and hence the 4th round grade). Has good hands but tends to run before actually catching (causing a lot of easy drops). Excellent balance and YAC. Needs some work on his route running (noticed he's very lazy selling the inside-out). Here's a great video of him (both good and bad) in 23011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptuq-mLgfeM&amp;feature=related He's not nearly as polished or as consistant as Mohamed Sanu but we also don't need a starter candidate going into camp ... we have time to develop him. I wouldn't mind him being our WR pick if we decide to go in a different direction earlier in the draft. He has upside but I would temper my expectations (inconsistancy being what it is). Criner is a stud! His thing was, he played with a up and down QB, plus he had left a game with a knee sprain early on that could of bothered him for some of the season.. Criner had 6catches or more in 8games this past season.. He also scored at least 1 TD in 7games.. Hes gonna be really good!

gmen0820
04-16-2012, 08:19 PM
gray sounds good, he's already on my fantasy team. (along with martin blackmon and pead)</P>What is it a four team league? Lol.

That is a great rookie draft. I'm not so sure that Blackmon will be that good, but the fact that you managed to get the best WR, and possibly 3 of the top 6-8 backs is nice.

lawl
04-16-2012, 09:41 PM
gray sounds good, he's already on my fantasy team. (along with martin blackmon and pead)</P>What is it a four team league? Lol.

That is a great rookie draft. I'm not so sure that Blackmon will be that good, but the fact that you managed to get the best WR, and possibly 3 of the top 6-8 backs is nice.

12 teams, 24 or so players per team.

I also have Jonathan gray and knile Davis.

I traded gronkowski for Blackmon when Hernandez came back from injury. Jon gray and knile Davis were also acquired through trade. I drafted gray martin pead and Andre Ellington.

(this is why I pm'd you for that list months ago)

I hope to land Sammy watkins this offseason.

rainierjef
04-16-2012, 10:29 PM
Call me crazy but i see a similar situation to last years Draft with 3-4 QB going off the boards in the first round. </P>


Colts / skins / dolphins / seahawks / Browns / possibly Cardinals </P>


hell i wouldn't be surprised if the titans are't thinking QB as well </P>


so think if in this order it goes Luck / Griffen / Tannehill / Cousins or Weeden depending on the team </P>


Who is realistically going to be there @ 32 </P>


sigh* its a good problem to have but its a problem i wouldn't want to decide on, i know what the needs are but to me the needs follow like this from greatest to least. </P>


TE / RB / OT / LB / WR /DT / CB / DB. receiver and d.tackle are interchangeable depending on whose there. </P>


i would hate to have a Fleener / D.Martin \ L.Miler / M.Adams / R.Randle / D.Still problem</P>

gmen0820
04-17-2012, 01:25 AM
gray sounds good, he's already on my fantasy team. (along with martin blackmon and pead)</P>What is it a four team league? Lol.

That is a great rookie draft. I'm not so sure that Blackmon will be that good, but the fact that you managed to get the best WR, and possibly 3 of the top 6-8 backs is nice.

12 teams, 24 or so players per team.

I also have Jonathan gray and knile Davis.

I traded gronkowski for Blackmon when Hernandez came back from injury. Jon gray and knile Davis were also acquired through trade. I drafted gray martin pead and Andre Ellington.

(this is why I pm'd you for that list months ago)

I hope to land Sammy watkins this offseason.I've been trying to get into a dynasty league with IDP's for a while.

You do it w/friends, or online? I'd imagine it is a lot better with actual friends, unfortunately no one wants to match my high cost leagues. Especially since most of my friends don't work either.

Redeyejedi
04-17-2012, 02:51 AM
Most of the draft sites that I use have been projecting him as either an OG who can step in rookie year and be a monster, OR as a RT who will need a year or so of grooming and then could be a force for years to come.* He's not strictly an OG but he IS very 'raw'

The more I watch videos of him, the more Im a fan of Juron Criner in the middle rounds


That's the same thing I've read about Osemele and I could see us taking him in the second if he's available. His appeal is his versatility and size. The debate is whether his athleticism holds up (he plays a lot faster then his size shoud normally allow).

Criner is interesting. The fear with him is that he peaked in the 2010 season and he continues to fall off from there. He shows flashes of brilliance which is the draw ... but much less consistant in 2011 which is the detraction (and hence the 4th round grade). Has good hands but tends to run before actually catching (causing a lot of easy drops). Excellent balance and YAC. Needs some work on his route running (noticed he's very lazy selling the inside-out).

Here's a great video of him (both good and bad) in 23011: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptuq-mLgfeM&feature=related

He's not nearly as polished or as consistant as Mohamed Sanu but we also don't need a starter candidate going into camp ... we have time to develop him.

I wouldn't mind him being our WR pick if we decide to go in a different direction earlier in the draft. He has upside but I would temper my expectations (inconsistancy being what it is).Yea me and you are def on the same page when it comes to Osemele

If we needed a WR this season to step up and produce immediatley I would go with Sanu (he seems like a nasty run blocker in addition to a great pass catcher) but we have a year or so to get whoever we have in mind ready.* I like the fact that Criner is a strictly outside WR so we could leave Cruz in the slot where he shines.


I actually think Cruz works better on the outside personally. He's more natural there.

But he's learned the slot really well this year (and stopped running before the catch lol).

And I agree with you about Criner ... since we don't need the day 1 starter (hopefully ... our injury history being what it is) I'd rather take a late round flyer on Criner and shore up some more immediate needs earlier on (Oline, TE, RB, DT).75% of Cruz's catchs and 77% of his yards came from the slot

lawl
04-17-2012, 09:04 AM
gray sounds good, he's already on my fantasy team. (along with martin blackmon and pead)</P>What is it a four team league? Lol.

That is a great rookie draft. I'm not so sure that Blackmon will be that good, but the fact that you managed to get the best WR, and possibly 3 of the top 6-8 backs is nice.

12 teams, 24 or so players per team.

I also have Jonathan gray and knile Davis.

I traded gronkowski for Blackmon when Hernandez came back from injury. Jon gray and knile Davis were also acquired through trade. I drafted gray martin pead and Andre Ellington.

(this is why I pm'd you for that list months ago)

I hope to land Sammy watkins this offseason.I've been trying to get into a dynasty league with IDP's for a while.

You do it w/friends, or online? I'd imagine it is a lot better with actual friends, unfortunately no one wants to match my high cost leagues. Especially since most of my friends don't work either.

I know like 3 of the guys. Alot of the guys aren't as active as I would hope, but oh well.

Kruunch
04-19-2012, 02:32 PM
75% of Cruz's catchs and 77% of his yards came from the slot

Well that makes sense since he was lined up there 90% of the time (although I think I doubt both our figures there).

He's still more natural on the outside imo (we just don't have anyone else to play the slot as well as he does).

Also, most of his big plays (20+ yards) came from the outside (Re: Cowboys, Jets, Seattle)