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View Full Version : 3rd WR vs Running Game



B&RWarrior
03-31-2012, 01:08 PM
Having a 3rd WR that can take advantage of one-on-one coverage is key to our success going forward.

If a 3rd WR doesn't step up then we need the running game to return to form to disallow opposing defenses to focus on our top 2 WRs.

I think the way the Patriots played us will serve as a blueprint for the league for next year b/c our 3rd WR is now unproven as is our running game.

***3rd WR/TE,

JPizzack
03-31-2012, 02:21 PM
Having a 3rd WR that can take advantage of one-on-one coverage is key to our success going forward. If a 3rd WR doesn't step up then we need the running game to return to form to disallow opposing defenses to focus on our top 2 WRs. I think the way the Patriots played us will serve as a blueprint for the league for next year b/c our 3rd WR is now unproven as is our running game. ***3rd WR/TE,</P>


I'm not a gambling man, but if I were, I'd be willing to bet than Jerrnigan, or Bennett end up being a proven commodity this upcoming season.
I'm not talking Cruz-type breakout, but definitely serviceable options.</P>

B&RWarrior
03-31-2012, 03:23 PM
I think these are huge question marks. Barden didn't show he could get open consistently las year. I don't even remember Jernigan on the field as a WR last year.

Toadofsteel
03-31-2012, 03:43 PM
Jernigan was also a rookie drafted in a year with little preseason. I have a feeling he will develop a la Cruz or JPP.

NorwoodBlue
03-31-2012, 04:04 PM
Cruz or JPP? Talk about putting some pressure on the guy! The Giants need a slot guy who can settle into an opening and be a third down machine, much like Steve Smith was. I think they'll find at least that, somebody who can also go deep, or pile on yards after the catch would all be gravy.

Diamondring
03-31-2012, 04:14 PM
You might as well say third receiver. Since we all know that there are different ways the Giants can put the team together, we should try and get any type of player who will be a good third option.

BeatYale
03-31-2012, 04:31 PM
Nicks still ended up with 10 receptions for 100+ yards. They wanted to double team both Nicks and Cruz, and in response Eli took advantage of a lot of all the underneath stuff. He had 16 completions to players not named Cruz or Nicks.

You're under estimating the talent/ability of NFL players. Just about anyone is going to thrive when they are on the field with Nicks and Cruz. Single coverage is what every receiver wants whether they are a WR, RB, TE or whether their name is Larry Fitzgerald or Jerald Jernigan.

Bottom line: We do not have to replace Manningham with a day 1 draft pick or free agent. Having two WRs who warrant double coverage means it should be easier for us to get production out of the other receiving threats on the field.

gmen0820
03-31-2012, 05:25 PM
We need a Z receiver. I feel we have a damn good one on our roster right now, in Victor Cruz. He is a deep threat and is great in the underneath department as well. I don't really see any WR in this draft who can be a flanker for us that is worth our first round pick outside of *maybe* Reuben Randle. Kendall Wright, he is a
great Z receiver as well, but might be gone in the first.

Sanu would be a nice fit at the Z in the second, but he has a lot of developing to do, and conversely, a lot of upside to untap if he can fully develop. Jeff Fuller, natural Z, not a really high ceiling though and not the best deep threat that you look for in a Z. Marvin Jones, I love this kid. Natural Z receiver, high upside, former RB in high school. If he is there in the second round, and is BPA, I would take him; third round is a little bit of a stretch though to think he will be there.

Stephen Hill, Marvin McNutt, Tommy Streeter and a lot of favorites on here are way better suited for the X receiver, they are much more fitting there. McNutt, I really don't like him at all, he plays a lot slower than his forty indicates. Hill and Streeter are specimens. They have incredibly high ceilings and they can become really good.

B&RWarrior
03-31-2012, 05:54 PM
Nicks still ended up with 10 receptions for 100+ yards. They wanted to double team both Nicks and Cruz, and in response Eli took advantage of a lot of all the underneath stuff. He had 16 completions to players not named Cruz or Nicks.

You're under estimating the talent/ability of NFL players. Just about anyone is going to thrive when they are on the field with Nicks and Cruz. Single coverage is what every receiver wants whether they are a WR, RB, TE or whether their name is Larry Fitzgerald or Jerald Jernigan.

Bottom line: We do not have to replace Manningham with a day 1 draft pick or free agent. Having two WRs who warrant double coverage means it should be easier for us to get production out of the other receiving threats on the field.

While Eli completed 16 passes to receivers other than Nicks and Cruz 45% of the yards gained in those completions came from the 3rd WR.

In the second half the offense stalled. The Pats defense clamped down on Nicks and Cruz and the role players couldn't find a way to get open.

I think your underestimating the talent/ability of NFL CBs. Not every 3rd wide receiver has the ability to beat man-to man coverage or find the hole in the zone. To think of it as a given that we'll find somebody to equal MMs ability and production is not being realistic. MM can play is a #2 WR on almost every NFL team besides the Giants.

B&RWarrior
03-31-2012, 05:55 PM
Nicks still ended up with 10 receptions for 100+ yards. They wanted to double team both Nicks and Cruz, and in response Eli took advantage of a lot of all the underneath stuff. He had 16 completions to players not named Cruz or Nicks.

You're under estimating the talent/ability of NFL players. Just about anyone is going to thrive when they are on the field with Nicks and Cruz. Single coverage is what every receiver wants whether they are a WR, RB, TE or whether their name is Larry Fitzgerald or Jerald Jernigan.

Bottom line: We do not have to replace Manningham with a day 1 draft pick or free agent. Having two WRs who warrant double coverage means it should be easier for us to get production out of the other receiving threats on the field.

While Eli completed 16 passes to receivers other than Nicks and Cruz 45% of the yards gained in those completions came from the 3rd WR.

In the second half the offense stalled. The Pats defense clamped down on Nicks and Cruz and the role players couldn't find a way to get open.

I think your underestimating the talent/ability of NFL CBs. Not every 3rd wide receiver has the ability to beat man-to man coverage or find the hole in the zone. To think of it as a given that we'll find somebody to equal MMs ability and production is not being realistic. MM can play is a #2 WR on almost every NFL team besides the Giants.

gmen0820
03-31-2012, 09:38 PM
^Yeah I don't think it's a question of wether we need a new WR. Someone has to assume Manningham's role and be effective.

NYGRealityCheck
03-31-2012, 10:43 PM
In terms of having a better chance at winning games, to only rely on a run game also requires a stout or turnover-creating defense to back it up in this day and age of the pass-happy friendly league.

Otherwise, the team will almost always be behind and trying to catch up to the opponents' passing attack with no defense to count on.

As for the Giants, they have a decent defense.
The Giants also have a good passing attack with just Eli, Nicks and Cruz, but that 3rd WR position and the TE position is what puts the Giants above the rest in terms of passing offense.

BigBlue1971
04-01-2012, 12:13 AM
Jernigan was also a rookie drafted in a year with little preseason. I have a feeling he will develop a la Cruz or JPP.</P>


</P>


your not asking for too much are you????!! lol</P>


Jernigan would be a huge success if he could next year attain <U>half</U> what Cruz and JPP did last year!</P>

BigBlue1971
04-01-2012, 12:13 AM
Jernigan was also a rookie drafted in a year with little preseason. I have a feeling he will develop a la Cruz or JPP.</P>


</P>


your not asking for too much are you????!! lol</P>


Jernigan would be a huge success if he could next year attain <U>half</U> what Cruz and JPP did last year!</P>

BigBlue1971
04-01-2012, 12:14 AM
Jernigan was also a rookie drafted in a year with little preseason. I have a feeling he will develop a la Cruz or JPP.</P>


</P>


your not asking for too much are you????!! lol</P>


Jernigan would be a huge success if he could next year attain <U>half</U> what Cruz and JPP did last year!</P>

BigBlue1971
04-01-2012, 12:14 AM
Jernigan was also a rookie drafted in a year with little preseason. I have a feeling he will develop a la Cruz or JPP.</P>


</P>


your not asking for too much are you????!! lol</P>


Jernigan would be a huge success if he could next year attain <U>half</U> what Cruz and JPP did last year!</P>

BigBlue1971
04-01-2012, 12:16 AM
sorry for the quad post but something not right with the boards! maybe it has to do with the migration!

BeatYale
04-01-2012, 09:26 PM
Nicks still ended up with 10 receptions for 100+ yards. They wanted to double team both Nicks and Cruz, and in response Eli took advantage of a lot of all the underneath stuff. He had 16 completions to players not named Cruz or Nicks.

You're under estimating the talent/ability of NFL players. Just about anyone is going to thrive when they are on the field with Nicks and Cruz. Single coverage is what every receiver wants whether they are a WR, RB, TE or whether their name is Larry Fitzgerald or Jerald Jernigan.

Bottom line: We do not have to replace Manningham with a day 1 draft pick or free agent. Having two WRs who warrant double coverage means it should be easier for us to get production out of the other receiving threats on the field.

While Eli completed 16 passes to receivers other than Nicks and Cruz 45% of the yards gained in those completions came from the 3rd WR.

In the second half the offense stalled. The Pats defense clamped down on Nicks and Cruz and the role players couldn't find a way to get open.

I think your underestimating the talent/ability of NFL CBs. Not every 3rd wide receiver has the ability to beat man-to man coverage or find the hole in the zone. To think of it as a given that we'll find somebody to equal MMs ability and production is not being realistic. MM can play is a #2 WR on almost every NFL team besides the Giants.

Well yeah considering guys like Pascoe and Hynoski are less likely to be running deep downfield. It makes sense that MM ended up with more yards than them.

Didn't Nicks have more receptions and yards in the second half? I remember him only having 2-3 catches in the first 2 quarters.

We scored 9 points in the first half. 12 in the second half. We dominated time of possession during both halves didn't we? So it's not like we weren't sustaining drives. The amount of first downs per half was even also if I counted correctly. 13 per half for a total of 26.

21 points wasn't high I know, but the Patriots defense was hardly dominant against us. Otherwise they would have been able to get us off the field quicker. They had a game plan to protect against big plays downfield, so Eli took what the defense gave him - the short/intermediate stuff. MM and others were beneficiaries of that.

Fair enough, but WRs always have the upper hand IMO, especially when the CB doesn't have safety help. CB is a harder position to develop and fill in general.

MM was productive in the playoffs and in previous seasons. I agree with you that he could be a #2 WR somewhere maybe. However, I don't believe his production can't be replaced internally.

We already have 2 guys that will command big pay checks soon enough. It's only natural to assume the 3rd WR spot should go to someone we're developing and willing to lose in free agency down the road, because it will never be cap friendly to retain a highly productive 3rd WR.

B&RWarrior
04-01-2012, 11:13 PM
Nicks still ended up with 10 receptions for 100+ yards. They wanted to double team both Nicks and Cruz, and in response Eli took advantage of a lot of all the underneath stuff. He had 16 completions to players not named Cruz or Nicks.

You're under estimating the talent/ability of NFL players. Just about anyone is going to thrive when they are on the field with Nicks and Cruz. Single coverage is what every receiver wants whether they are a WR, RB, TE or whether their name is Larry Fitzgerald or Jerald Jernigan.

Bottom line: We do not have to replace Manningham with a day 1 draft pick or free agent. Having two WRs who warrant double coverage means it should be easier for us to get production out of the other receiving threats on the field.

While Eli completed 16 passes to receivers other than Nicks and Cruz 45% of the yards gained in those completions came from the 3rd WR.

In the second half the offense stalled. The Pats defense clamped down on Nicks and Cruz and the role players couldn't find a way to get open.

I think your underestimating the talent/ability of NFL CBs. Not every 3rd wide receiver has the ability to beat man-to man coverage or find the hole in the zone. To think of it as a given that we'll find somebody to equal MMs ability and production is not being realistic. MM can play is a #2 WR on almost every NFL team besides the Giants.

Well yeah considering guys like Pascoe and Hynoski are less likely to be running deep downfield. It makes sense that MM ended up with more yards than them.

Didn't Nicks have more receptions and yards in the second half? I remember him only having 2-3 catches in the first 2 quarters.

We scored 9 points in the first half. 12 in the second half. We dominated time of possession during both halves didn't we? So it's not like we weren't sustaining drives. The amount of first downs per half was even also if I counted correctly. 13 per half for a total of 26.

21 points wasn't high I know, but the Patriots defense was hardly dominant against us. Otherwise they would have been able to get us off the field quicker. They had a game plan to protect against big plays downfield, so Eli took what the defense gave him - the short/intermediate stuff. MM and others were beneficiaries of that.

Fair enough, but WRs always have the upper hand IMO, especially when the CB doesn't have safety help. CB is a harder position to develop and fill in general.

MM was productive in the playoffs and in previous seasons. I agree with you that he could be a #2 WR somewhere maybe. However, I don't believe his production can't be replaced internally.

We already have 2 guys that will command big pay checks soon enough. It's only natural to assume the 3rd WR spot should go to someone we're developing and willing to lose in free agency down the road, because it will never be cap friendly to retain a highly productive 3rd WR.

I think if you polled Giants fans before the game most would have predicted a higher offensive output against possibly the worst defense in the league. With 1:05 to go we had 15 points on the board. That was not one of our best offensive showings- not by a long shot.

I agree somebody is going to have to step up and normally your not going to resign a 3rd WR to a big contract with the top 2 receivers not signed to long term deals. But by not trying to retain the 3rd WR I was hoping for an upgrading O-line to address our run blocking issue, by that I mean more than a good blocking TE (Bennett).

Yet I feel like a 3rd WR of MMs caliber puts our offense on an elite level even though our running game is mediocre at best. The reason why I think the third WR is so crucial is because I don't think our running game will return to form next year w/o upgrading the O-line. Rookies won't give us what we need next year and the O-linemen we have are good pass blockers and mediocre run blockers with the exception of Snee.

Cruz set unreal expectations for the development of WRs. He is an anomaly. Barden is who I expect to step up as 3 year vet. Jernigan won't step in and be that successful, not immediately. The kid has potential though.