PDA

View Full Version : Pay Cruz/Don't Pay Cruz



zimonami
04-04-2012, 03:18 PM
This may have been posted already as it is a few days old and I know it's being discussed... but, if you haven't seen it, then please read:
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bfNnA?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=new-york-giants

I think we represent a fair fan base. I want the Giants to see our opinion on the question:
Should the Giants rip up Cruz' $540,000 contract for this year and pay him more in line with, and in appreciation for his 2011 contributions to our success?
I think he earned a raise and I don't want to take a chance of losing him, so I say
YES

myles2424
04-04-2012, 03:20 PM
Cruz definitely deserves a raise....but it wouldn't be a smart move to give any kind of a big deal after 1 year..

slipknottin
04-04-2012, 03:21 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now?

He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year.

They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million.

Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price.

Kase-1
04-04-2012, 03:24 PM
If he shows that hes the same guy we saw last season I think we'll bless him with a nice long contract. If our WRs show us love on the field, we show them love off the field. We need to find a way to ink Nicks as well as Cruz as long as Cruz shows us he's that monster we saw last season

GMENAGAIN
04-04-2012, 03:26 PM
Cruz definitely deserves a raise....but it wouldn't be a smart move to give any kind of a big deal after 1 year..</P>


+1</P>

JMFP2
04-04-2012, 03:36 PM
Cruz is being a class act.....he's also a fan favorite and probably earning a lot of cake through endorsements, personal appearances, etc.

I think the Front Office will do right by the kid down the road.

Klitch
04-04-2012, 04:42 PM
As Teddy KGB said, "Pay dat myan his money"

THE_New_York_Giants
04-04-2012, 04:52 PM
He knows he is going to get paid. He has even said he isn't going to holdout. He knows the cap situation and even if they wanted to, they can't afford to pay him right now. Everything will be better in a year though as a lot of guys will be coming off the books. These next two drafts will shape the next 5 years.

lawl
04-04-2012, 05:06 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now?

He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year.

They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million.

Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price.

General speaking, the earlier you extend a Guy the cheaper you'll get him for. Examples are tuck; and big Ben when compared to us waiting to extend Eli.

And to a lesser extent it builds more trust (for lack of
a better word) between the fo and the locker room. Guys see the fo pay a Guy for doing well and they'll think it will apply to them as well when they succeed.

slipknottin
04-04-2012, 05:07 PM
General speaking, the earlier you extend a Guy the cheaper you'll get him for. Examples are tuck; and big Ben when compared to us waiting to extend Eli.


Or Osi, who has been complaining that he is underpaid the past 4 seasons.

It works both ways.

lawl
04-04-2012, 05:11 PM
General speaking, the earlier you extend a Guy the cheaper you'll get him for. Examples are tuck; and big Ben when compared to us waiting to extend Eli.


Or Osi, who has been complaining that he is underpaid the past 4 seasons.

It works both ways.

Right, but he was alsostill in a giants uniform those 4 years making plays (when healthy), which is really what matters.

Redeyejedi
04-04-2012, 05:11 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now?

He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year.

They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million.

Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price. I wonder if he would sign a 6 year deal worth 25 Million. If he is only getting 1.5 over the next 2 it may be in his best interest 2

bigjeep
04-04-2012, 05:19 PM
This guy could be the best Giants receiver of all time baring Injury! Letting this guy walk could be considered criminal!

slipknottin
04-04-2012, 05:23 PM
This guy could be the best Giants receiver of all time baring Injury! Letting this guy walk could be considered criminal!

Except of course, that Nicks is an even better receiver.

burier
04-05-2012, 10:52 AM
You pay Cruz because if you don't

He could hold out. Him saying he won't means nothing.

Its bad for team morale. Guy performs like an upper-echelon reciever and gets paid like a punter. Other players start thinking the team doesn't care about the players making it harder to sign other guys.

If he doubles up his performance from last season without a new contract he becomes unaffordable.

You don't have to give him a huge payday but you have to give him a relatively short contract that makes him a millionaire. That simple.

SweetZombieJesus
04-05-2012, 10:58 AM
Give him a moderate raise as a reward (which also keeps him happy) and keep the inside track on signing him at or near market value.

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 11:22 AM
This may have been posted already as it is a few days old and I know it's being discussed... but, if you haven't seen it, then please read:
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bfNnA?utm_source=newsletter&amp;utm_medium=newsletter&amp; utm_campaign=new-york-giants

I think we represent a fair fan base. I want the Giants to see our opinion on the question:
Should the Giants rip up Cruz' $540,000 contract for this year and pay him more in line with, and in appreciation for his 2011 contributions to our success?
I think he earned a raise and I don't want to take a chance of losing him, so I say
YES

Bleacher Report is probably one of the least reliable sources for information out there. Cruz is under contract and he has said he's OK with that. He's going to play football and let his agent handle his contract. We can assume Reese is fully aware of Cruz's value to the team and will handle him, and Nicks, accordingly when the time comes.
.
The organization is not going to be guided by what any of us think. With the exception of Harooni and Fbomb

NY_Eli
04-05-2012, 11:23 AM
He knows he is going to get paid. He has even said he isn't going to holdout. He knows the cap situation and even if they wanted to, they can't afford to pay him right now. Everything will be better in a year though as a lot of guys will be coming off the books. These next two drafts will shape the next 5 years.

+1. Cruz is completely on board, and he understands the cap can't take a big signing right now.

ShakeNBake
04-05-2012, 11:24 AM
Cruz definitely deserves a raise....but it wouldn't be a smart move to give any kind of a big deal after 1 year..

I agree but if we don;t pay him now and wait on it we will ending up paying him more down the line if he continues to perform at a high level. I think we should pay him now, especially now that Mario is gone.

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 11:25 AM
This guy could be the best Giants receiver of all time baring Injury! Letting this guy walk could be considered criminal!

How did we get to Cruz leaving?

hungrrrry
04-05-2012, 11:31 AM
I don't know how we do it but I suggest we try to lock him up before mid-season...I would not expect Cruz flop this season. He gave us reason to believe in 2010 before he was injured, he backed it up with a stellar performance in 2011 and locked up a starting role. He is not arrogant as some, in his position, have been and are throughout the league. I think we have alot more to get out of Cruz.

If we wait until 2013 to get a deal done, his price could be insurmountable. As some have said...we also need to lock up Nicks who will command top 5 WR money and then JPP...I am just mentioning the stars from 2011...who steps up in 2012 that we will feel a lot of pressure to retain???

I don't envy Reese's position here but then again, he knows where we can be flexible within the cap and personel so we will have to trust him to do the right thing.

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 11:36 AM
I don't know how we do it but I suggest we try to lock him up before mid-season...I would not expect Cruz flop this season. He gave us reason to believe in 2010 before he was injured, he backed it up with a stellar performance in 2011 and locked up a starting role. He is not arrogant as some, in his position, have been and are throughout the league. I think we have alot more to get out of Cruz.

If we wait until 2013 to get a deal done, his price could be insurmountable. As some have said...we also need to lock up Nicks who will command top 5 WR money and then JPP...I am just mentioning the stars from 2011...who steps up in 2012 that we will feel a lot of pressure to retain???

I don't envy Reese's position here but then again, he knows where we can be flexible within the cap and personel so we will have to trust him to do the right thing.

I think what Reese is doing now, in terms of free agency, is a forward looking strategy to be able to lock up both Cruz and Nicks next season. Don't spend anything now that you will need next season.

zimonami
04-05-2012, 11:40 AM
You pay Cruz because if you don't

He could hold out. Him saying he won't means nothing.

Its bad for team morale. Guy performs like an upper-echelon reciever and gets paid like a punter. Other players start thinking the team doesn't care about the players making it harder to sign other guys.

If he doubles up his performance from last season without a new contract he becomes unaffordable.

You don't have to give him a huge payday but you have to give him a relatively short contract that makes him a millionaire. That simple.
I don't propose the Giants and Cruz get together before the season. The next several months will be busy with draft choices/contracts and, perhaps, some FA's.
But, like burier says... especially if he comes out of the shoot very hot like last year, it would behoove the Gmen to rip up the old and get him locked up for the next several years... say, before game 8... with a nice signing bonus.
I think Hakeem is our No. 1 guy, but If Cruz continues his '11 pace, he's 1a.

BigBlue1971
04-05-2012, 11:46 AM
while Cruz has been outstanding and contributed much to the Giants success last season he has still only hadone exceptional year!</P>


i think Cruz needs to follow up last year with another solid season to qualify for a big payday!</P>


i dont know if the Giants will immediatelygive him a big contract withoutshowing consistency from year to year!</P>

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 11:59 AM
while Cruz has been outstanding and contributed much to the Giants success last season he has still only hadone exceptional year!</p>


i think Cruz needs to follow up last year with another solid season to qualify for a big payday!</p>


i dont know if the Giants will immediatelygive him a big contract withoutshowing consistency from year to year!</p>

That "one season" was his only season. He also had a break out pre-season before he was stuck on IR because of Tynes ankle. While you're right about making long term deals, I really do think we've past the "is he really that good" stage.

BlueReign
04-05-2012, 12:12 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now?

He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year.

They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million.

Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price.

General speaking, the earlier you extend a Guy the cheaper you'll get him for. Examples are tuck; and big Ben when compared to us waiting to extend Eli.

And to a lesser extent it builds more trust (for lack of
a better word) between the fo and the locker room. Guys see the fo pay a Guy for doing well and they'll think it will apply to them as well when they succeed.
Bingo.

G-Man67
04-05-2012, 12:20 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now? He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year. They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million. Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price.</P>


exactly</P>


he's ours for the next 2 seasons, so why do we need to open up the wallet now?</P>


we've seen a lot of this lately, to me when a player is under contract it is up to the player to approach the club and say, hey, i know 1,500 yards puts me in elite WR territory and some of those WRs make a bazillion dollars, but i'm willing to accept less than market value b/c i'm afraid i might get hurt and i know i've only done it for 1 season, etc. ... for us to approach him (assuming we had the cap space) with an offer that was 1/2 or 1/3 of what he could argue is his market value, well then we would just be insulting him, so it's on Victor if he wants to do a 5 years deal, let's say</P>


we have much more immediate issues to deal with ... let's focus on the 2012 team ... there's time to think about Cruz in the future ... the good news is he's locked up and he has to realize that being a NY star is a valuable thing when it comes to endorsement opportunities</P>


and think about this ... if his star continues to rise and his market value continues to rise, then that means he is producing in a big way and that helps this team, so we really can't lose either way</P>

SweetZombieJesus
04-05-2012, 01:05 PM
he's ours for the next 2 seasons, so why do we need to open up the wallet now?</p>


</p>

So he can be ours for the next 4-6 seasons at a cheaper price in the long run than if we wait (see Tuck for example). The player feels rewarded and he is, but in fact he'll be playing below market value. Win-win.
</p>

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 02:22 PM
You pay Cruz because if you don't

He could hold out. Him saying he won't means nothing.

Its bad for team morale. Guy performs like an upper-echelon reciever and gets paid like a punter. Other players start thinking the team doesn't care about the players making it harder to sign other guys.

If he doubles up his performance from last season without a new contract he becomes unaffordable.

You don't have to give him a huge payday but you have to give him a relatively short contract that makes him a millionaire. That simple.

Actually, Cruz saying he won't hold out is the only thing he can say. He's under contract and we all saw what happens when you want something from the GIANTS you aren't entitled to. His time is coming and his agent is hopefully smart enough to know when to hold' em and when to fold 'em.

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 02:28 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now? He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year. They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million. Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price.</p>


exactly</p>


he's ours for the next 2 seasons, so why do we need to open up the wallet now?</p>


we've seen a lot of this lately, to me when a player is under contract it is up to the player to approach the club and say, hey, i know 1,500 yards puts me in elite WR territory and some of those WRs make a bazillion dollars, but i'm willing to accept less than market value b/c i'm afraid i might get hurt and i know i've only done it for 1 season, etc. ... for us to approach him (assuming we had the cap space) with an offer that was 1/2 or 1/3 of what he could argue is his market value, well then we would just be insulting him, so it's on Victor if he wants to do a 5 years deal, let's say</p>


we have much more immediate issues to deal with ... let's focus on the 2012 team ... there's time to think about Cruz in the future ... the good news is he's locked up and he has to realize that being a NY star is a valuable thing when it comes to endorsement opportunities</p>


and think about this ... if his star continues to rise and his market value continues to rise, then that means he is producing in a big way and that helps this team, so we really can't lose either way</p>

It's not about opening up the wallet now, it's getting ready to open the wallet in the next two seasons. A lot can happen between now and 2014 as has been mentioned in this thread. They could also apply the franchise tag if it comes to that at the appropriate time.

mattajw
04-05-2012, 02:55 PM
We cannot base on one season alone. If he gets over 1000 yards, you have to consider it. if he gets over 1200 you have to give him a raise or we risk losing him like Steve Smith

gmen0820
04-05-2012, 03:00 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now?

He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year.

They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million.

Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price. I wonder if he would sign a 6 year deal worth 25 Million. If he is only getting 1.5 over the next 2 it may be in his best interest 2Beat me to it. If we signed him now, it'd have to be long term for the FO to consider it, because it is pointless to give Cruz a 3 year deal at a larger salary when you have him at 2 years 1.5 million.

5-6 years at a 4-5 mil per year is a nice insurance policy in a dangerous game where A LOT can happen in 2 years.

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 03:17 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now?

He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year.

They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million.

Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price. I wonder if he would sign a 6 year deal worth 25 Million. If he is only getting 1.5 over the next 2 it may be in his best interest 2Beat me to it. If we signed him now, it'd have to be long term for the FO to consider it, because it is pointless to give Cruz a 3 year deal at a larger salary when you have him at 2 years 1.5 million.

5-6 years at a 4-5 mil per year is a nice insurance policy in a dangerous game where A LOT can happen in 2 years.

This is all very true, but where do we get the $$$?

gmen0820
04-05-2012, 03:21 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now?

He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year.

They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million.

Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price. I wonder if he would sign a 6 year deal worth 25 Million. If he is only getting 1.5 over the next 2 it may be in his best interest 2Beat me to it. If we signed him now, it'd have to be long term for the FO to consider it, because it is pointless to give Cruz a 3 year deal at a larger salary when you have him at 2 years 1.5 million.

5-6 years at a 4-5 mil per year is a nice insurance policy in a dangerous game where A LOT can happen in 2 years.

This is all very true, but where do we get the $$$?
Colombian drug cartels, the five families of NY, extortion, etc.

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 03:23 PM
How would they be risking losing him if they didnt resign him right now?

He is under contract this year, will be an RFA next year.

They can keep him under contract for this and next year for a combined 1.5 million.

Why would they give him a big contract now instead? Makes absolutely no sense for the giants unless they get him for a bargain price. I wonder if he would sign a 6 year deal worth 25 Million. If he is only getting 1.5 over the next 2 it may be in his best interest 2Beat me to it. If we signed him now, it'd have to be long term for the FO to consider it, because it is pointless to give Cruz a 3 year deal at a larger salary when you have him at 2 years 1.5 million.

5-6 years at a 4-5 mil per year is a nice insurance policy in a dangerous game where A LOT can happen in 2 years.

This is all very true, but where do we get the $$$?
Colombian drug cartels, the five families of NY, extortion, etc.

That would certainly take the heat off the Saints lol

nygsb42champs
04-05-2012, 03:24 PM
Wait until next year and then as long as he proves he can do it again pah the man.

zimonami
04-05-2012, 05:56 PM
Wait until next year and then as long as he proves he can do it again pah the man.
sooner or later we pay. I'm for getting it done early, but can't complain about those of you who want him to play for his existing contract.
I think few of us believe he's a flash in the pan, so he's going to get his, sooner or later... I just don't want any bad blood if it is later,

RoanokeFan
04-05-2012, 05:59 PM
Wait until next year and then as long as he proves he can do it again pah the man.
sooner or later we pay. I'm for getting it done early, but can't complain about those of you who want him to play for his existing contract.
I think few of us believe he's a flash in the pan, so he's going to get his, sooner or later... I just don't want any bad blood if it is later,

I don't think they have enough money to do it this season.

byron
04-05-2012, 07:03 PM
Wait until next year and then as long as he proves he can do it again pah the man. sooner or later we pay. I'm for getting it done early, but can't complain about those of you who want him to play for his existing contract. I think few of us believe he's a flash in the pan, so he's going to get his, sooner or later... I just don't want any bad blood if it is later,

I don't think they have enough money to do it this season.
</P>


yeah I think that is the question at this point...JR will take care of the pending stuff first getting players that need to be signed now draftees and what not...perhaps after all is said and done and there is money left they will do something...I get putting it off could have costs but if they don't have it they don't have it...financially next year may be better for the FO given that and TV rev's will be doubling in 2014 which should bring a substantial jump in the cap...that being said I don't think it makes or is it smart to back load contracts now in Lew ofa possible 2014 jump...</P>


getting things straitend upnow makes a lot of sence to me andbuy the time 2014 rolls around the Giants should be looking good cap wise...lets hope anyway....</P>

B&RWarrior
04-05-2012, 08:09 PM
The team should wait it out, but Cruz's agent should be pushing to get a deal now. When you never know when a career ending injury will come an agent's perspective should always be to get full market value for every game the player plays. Cruz will never have a higher market value than he does this off-season. If I was him I'd push for a new deal before next year. I think the FO would consider it.

Vtgmenfan89
04-05-2012, 10:19 PM
Well my opinion is we used a draft pick on Nicks, so he is priority number 1. However Cruz's deal obviously expires first....so we need to deal with that sooner. I'd love if they both just agreed to take the exact same deal and be the most dominant WR duo in the league. Be our Wayne/Harrison, ya know? Wishful thinking however that that would happen