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Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:01 AM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

Didn't say that you made that claim, either. I think the sentence 'the disparity in play from the postseason from Brees, Rodgers, and Brady is minimal' implies that Eli's regular season was close to that of those guys when in reality it was nowhere close.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:05 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

To be honest, I could make a case for both arguments. I just feel one is more right than the other.


yes or no, did ANY qb play at a higher level than eli in the post season?

What did I just say? I can make a case for both sides. I can easily dismiss the efforts of other QBs because Eli played well and helped his team win a championship, or I can look at the performances he had in further detail and make a strong argument otherwise.




huh?????? eli outplayed every qb in the postseason and it wasnt even close...lol...its all good. no one's gonna change your mind, no matter the stats. its ok...

edit-higher completion %, higher yards avg, better td-int ratio, oh yeah, SB MVP...ur biased. i'm coming from an objective view point...eli is the best qb in the nfl right now, and nfl.com agrees...

Eli played very well in the playoffs and against Dallas in the final game as well. Based on stats alone, Drew Brees was actually a better QB in the playoffs.

And based on your biggest 'clutch' argument, Drew Brees was more clutch than Eli as well. But* before I get right into that let me give you a disclaimer.

The only strong defense Eli Manning and the Giants faced in the final 5 games of the season (including the season finale in Dallas) was the 49ers. A game in which Eli played pretty well. But versus a common opponent, Brees played better. He had a higher passer rating and he had two very clutch touchdown drives in the 4th quarter. However, the Saints defense gave up a last minute drive to lose the game as the clock struck zero.

But the difference between the two quarterbacks is that one was on the winning team against the 9ers while the other was not.

So can I definitively say that Eli was better than Brees? I really can't.


ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:06 AM
And before you comeback and say I'm punishing Eli for playing weak defenses in the playoffs. I'm not.

Most players in the NFL, not just QBs, are judged by their playoff performance because of the level of competition they have to persevere in. I, myself, just don't think Eli Manning had it all that rough outside of the 9ers game, in which he played very well. But there was a QB that did play better than him in the same circumstances.

It just goes along with the fact that ultimately, football is a team sport. And although he 'outdueled' some great QBs, it doesn't mean he was better.

That's as logical as I can be, and if you disagree that's just how you see things I'll just accept that.

Flip Empty
04-10-2012, 01:08 AM
So because Hakeem Nicks outplayed every other receiver in the postseason, does that mean he's the best receiver in the NFL right now?

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:08 AM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

Didn't say that you made that claim, either. I think the sentence 'the disparity in play from the postseason from Brees, Rodgers, and Brady is minimal' implies that Eli's regular season was close to that of those guys when in reality it was nowhere close.


LMFAO...broke an NFL RECORD ALL TIME for 4th quarter TD's, led SIX GW DRIVES, (of our 9 wins), 60 yards from 5,000 (6th best ALL TIME), the only way he wasnt close to those other qb's was 29 td's...compl %, ypg, were neck in neck

whereas the postseason, Eli was much better than those other qb's,

then u add the caveat that the NYG had the hardest schedule in the nfl...well lets just say, putting eli as the 7th best qb in the nfc basically eleminates you from any reasonable, logical opinion on QB play...

7th best in the nfc LMFAO at u not with u AT u

edit- how did brees play better vs the 9ers than eli? didnt he throw 3 picks that game? lmfao...my goodness

i did it again, i could care less the opinion of someone who ranks eli 7th best in the nfc, nighty night

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 01:09 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

To be honest, I could make a case for both arguments. I just feel one is more right than the other.


yes or no, did ANY qb play at a higher level than eli in the post season?

What did I just say? I can make a case for both sides. I can easily dismiss the efforts of other QBs because Eli played well and helped his team win a championship, or I can look at the performances he had in further detail and make a strong argument otherwise.




I posted a link on the 07' SB because somebody described the the game as Eli overcoming a defensive "collapse", when the opposite was true.

Eli is not the best QB in the league. He did outperform all QB's in the playoffs.

Here's a basketball metaphor. Norwitzki outperformed Lebron James in the NBA Finals last year. Is Nowitski better than Lebron? Nowitski now has a ring and Lebron doesn't. He's also more clutch than Lebron. But the question is Nowitski better than Lebron? NOOOOO!!

Eli outperformed AR in that one playoff game. You can't argue he is more clutch than AR because AR was blowing people out all year while Eli had to bring us back. In fact, Rodgers came back against the Giants in the regular season. He's not better than Rodgers at anything. The difference in the game was 3 turnovers and at least 5 dropped passes by Packers receivers not poor play on the part of Rodgers. My Giants were just clearly the better defensive team.

I grow weary with this argument. If you want to believe Eli is the second coming of Jesus by all means it is your right. Forget those bums Elway, and Marino, Eli is the King...SMH.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:11 AM
Ahhhh it figures that the person that started with the insults is the one that cries about it when they are directed at her.

Not surprising that you are going to use an analyst like Steve Young that once claimed "Mike Vick may be the best QB ever" to fortify your position.

Nice how in stating your case that NY Giants defense held the number one offense to 14 points that you failed to state that Eli Manning led NY Giants offense to score 17 points against a much better defense than the NY Giants did.

You can ***** and moal

First off I'm a guy. The gender symbol by the username should have been the first clue.

"Homer" was not meant as insult but as a statement of fact. You have to be ignoring the facts to state Eli is the best QB in the league or that he is on track to be the best QB ever based on one "great" year. I love my Giants too but tend to see things for what they are not what I wish they were.

If your going to claim Eli is the best give me something to work with. Watch the 2007 game again or reread some recaps. We were a 13.5 pt underdog. Do you remember how Brady reacted in thepress conference when he was told Plax said they would score 17 pts, he laughed. The defense was the MVP. Of course you have to give the award to one player, but the defense made it possible for the Giants to take the lead with one great drive by playing great D all game long.

We kicked Brady's #@# all game long. Eli did not put that team on his back. He was a major part of our success though.

Forget about anybody else or even the stats?

Does Eli have the best deep ball? NO Brady, Rodgers both have better deep balls.

Does Eli have the best accuracy? NO Rodgers, Brady both more accurate

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers? NO Brady is the best at this. Giants have arguably the best WR duo in the league. Plax and Toomer weren't slouches either.

Can Eli make plays with his legs? NO, multiple QBs can Rodgers, Vick, even Brees to name a few.

Is Eli the most clutch QB? Yes, It can be argued Brady is just as clutch. I say Eli is the most clutch QB. Rodgers has not played bad key moments in his young career.

Is Eli the best game manager? NO, P. Manning. followed by Brady.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions? NO, Rodgers, P. Manning, Brady, Brees all better.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems? NO, Brees was succesful with the Chargers and in the NO. Brady also has had different offensive coordinators and remained consistently successful.

These are facts. I consider Rodgers the best because he is the most accurate, he arguably has the best deep ball, he's the best at going through his progressions, and he can make plays with his legs. He's not more clutch than Eli and they both have talented receiver cores. There is nothing Eli does poorly except running, it's that he doesn't do some key things as well as the other QBs listed.

thats odd that each statement yuo apply to Eli and say "no" to is completely erroneous. lets start from the top:
Does Eli have the better deep ball?
Well considering Eli LED THE NFL IN PASS PLAYS OF 20 YDS OR MORE, I'd say certainly better than any other QB. Not to mention, Brady had an abysmal rating on passes 20 yds or more this past season. And not to mention in the head to head matchups with Brady and Rodgers, Eli ABSOLUTELY threw a better deep ball.

Does Eli have the best accuracy?
Again, in head to head matchups, Eli ABSOLUTELY had better passer accuracy numbers. Without looking up the exact stats, Eli DID have a higher completion % to go with more yards than Rodgers and Brady in the post season and in head 2 head matchups.

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers?
This one is subjective, which grouping do you like more; Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Branch or Nicks, Cruz, or MM...as its subjective no one can definitively win this one, although some one making the argument that Eli has won SB's with two completely different sets of wr's with completely different WR traits is definitely valid.

Is Eli the most clutch qb?
No explanation needed, YES.

Is Eli the best game manager?
Head 2 head vs NE, Eli has certainly managed the games better, less ints, more yards, and GW drives in THREE straight wins over NE.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions?
How you can say NO and act like its gospel is beyond me. In the playoffs, some one arguing Eli was better than the rest is certainly valid considering the scheme we run and Eli having to decipher the holes in the coverage in a matter of seconds, I would say without a doubt Eli does. A good barometer of this could be 3rd down conversions, and in that aspect, ELI DESTROYED those QBs you listed...not to mention Eli DESTROYING those other QB's in pass completion % in head to head matchups and the post season.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems?
So we should penalize Eli bc he makes the hardest offensive scheme work? Before Eli and the Giants, KG's offense which is a blend of run and shoot.sight adjustment, no team had ever won a SB. Seeing as how Eli won TWO in this offensive system, while he hasnt had to be successful in different offensive systems, he's mastered the most difficult of any of the elite passers.

LMFAO, you call what you listed facts? If anything, you went AGAINST the facts and used your own flawed subjective reasoning.

Rodgers wasnt as accurate vs Eli when it mattered most. He def. didnt have the better deep ball all season, and Eli's 3rd down conversions indicate he was much better in going through his progressions, especially in the post season.

And you make the error of assuming someone stating Eli is the best QB now, that it means he's been the best QB for years. No, before this season Eli wasnt better than those QB's. After this season, imho, Eli clearly placed himself above the others. And seeing as how NFL.COM ranks him number 1, your "homer" argument makes no sense.

lmfao, "these are facts"...how you could state that is both hilarious and beyond me, but thank you I needed a good laugh.

each of your premises destroyed

the defense rests...

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:12 AM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

do you not understand that the MVP vote is FOR THE REGULAR SEASON ONLY? That negates where Eli CLEARLY outplayed the other elite QB's...if the MVP vote was held after the SB, you really think Eli wouldn't get "one vote"...smh, I already went through your list of why Rodgers, Brees and Brady are better than Eli and ripped every one of your premises apart...

Eli HAD A BETTER DEEP BALL PASSER RATING.
Eli HAD A BETTER 3rd DOWN CONVERSION %
Eli HAD HIGHER COMPLETION % numbers in the playoffs

When you combine that with his clutch ability, if some one wants to say Eli is the best QB in the NFL and has the potential to go down as one of the best ever, who the F are you to say otherwise?

When the Giants played the Packers in the playoffs, you believe Rodgers played better than Eli??? Because EVERY statistic, Eli destroyed him that game, let alone led the team to a mmulti possession win...

Same vs NE, Eli destroyed Brady in every statistical category.

In the postseason, Eli HAD BETTER STATS ACROSS THE BOARD than any other QB.

Not to mention, Eli's numbers might have been affected seeing as during the regular season, the NYG had THE HARDEST SCHEDULE IN THE LEAGUE...while NE, GB, and NO had relatively easy schedules...in games where the opposition was the best of the best, which is the playoffs, Eli raised his level of play above the rest.

and once more, your premises destroyed

once more, defense rests

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:15 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:17 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.


lmfao...at u...sides hurting...

WOW, u def. just dropped a notch in my book, ur back at zero lmfao
newton, ryan, romo...i cant stop laughing...lmfao...

it stings your cooch that nfl.com has an article up ranking eli 1rst, and romo 14th doesn't it...the fact u'd even jump in on this debate with the clear intention on trying to knock eli down a few pegs bc ur world cant handle it...lmfao...i gotta leave im gonna piss my pants...RYAN???ROMO???NEWTON???7th best QB in the nfC???

u made my night, i can laugh myself to sleep.

GmenFan1980
04-10-2012, 01:18 AM
How to Defend a QB's failures 101

Step 1. Blame the Defense

Step 2. Blame the Receivers, Running backs and Offensive Line

Step 3.(rare) Blame the Special teams

Step 4 Blame the Coaches

Step 5. Use of the "If" argument

If you find yourself using any of these arguments to defend your or any other QB then odds are, that QB ****ed up :)

Oh I almost forgot. Step 6 - Cry and yell "That's my Quarterback!" multiple times

We as Giants fans are experts of these teachings and hopefully Saints, Packers, Patriots and Cowboy fans can become ones too. Enjoy your evening

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:22 AM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

Didn't say that you made that claim, either. I think the sentence 'the disparity in play from the postseason from Brees, Rodgers, and Brady is minimal' implies that Eli's regular season was close to that of those guys when in reality it was nowhere close.


LMFAO...broke an NFL RECORD ALL TIME for 4th quarter TD's, led SIX GW DRIVES, (of our 9 wins), 60 yards from 5,000 (6th best ALL TIME), the only way he wasnt close to those other qb's was 29 td's...compl %, ypg, were neck in neck

whereas the postseason, Eli was much better than those other qb's,

then u add the caveat that the NYG had the hardest schedule in the nfl...well lets just say, putting eli as the 7th best qb in the nfc basically eleminates you from any reasonable, logical opinion on QB play...

7th best in the nfc LMFAO at u not with u AT u

edit- how did brees play better vs the 9ers than eli? didnt he throw 3 picks that game? lmfao...my goodness

i did it again, i could care less the opinion of someone who ranks eli 7th best in the nfc, nighty night

Yes, we all know that you know Eli's accomplishments as do I. It seems as though you're not too keen as to what goes on with other QBs around the NFL though.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:25 AM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

Didn't say that you made that claim, either. I think the sentence 'the disparity in play from the postseason from Brees, Rodgers, and Brady is minimal' implies that Eli's regular season was close to that of those guys when in reality it was nowhere close.


LMFAO...broke an NFL RECORD ALL TIME for 4th quarter TD's, led SIX GW DRIVES, (of our 9 wins), 60 yards from 5,000 (6th best ALL TIME), the only way he wasnt close to those other qb's was 29 td's...compl %, ypg, were neck in neck

whereas the postseason, Eli was much better than those other qb's,

then u add the caveat that the NYG had the hardest schedule in the nfl...well lets just say, putting eli as the 7th best qb in the nfc basically eleminates you from any reasonable, logical opinion on QB play...

7th best in the nfc LMFAO at u not with u AT u

edit- how did brees play better vs the 9ers than eli? didnt he throw 3 picks that game? lmfao...my goodness

i did it again, i could care less the opinion of someone who ranks eli 7th best in the nfc, nighty night

Yes, we all know that you know Eli's accomplishments as do I. It seems as though you're not too keen as to what goes on with other QBs around the NFL though.




says the guy who argues ryan, newton, and romo were better last season...lmfao pls pls stop. ok we get ur position. its dead wrong but we get it. some how romo is still a better qb, LMFAO...RYAN????NEWTON?????ROMO????

newton is a much better scrambler yes, but ryan and romo are a clear tier below eli. u couldnt find one knowledgable analyst who'd put eli at 7th in the nfc which is why you could, lack of knowledge...

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:27 AM
So because Hakeem Nicks outplayed every other receiver in the postseason, does that mean he's the best receiver in the NFL right now?

I think Nicks has a real shot at it some day. Dude has it all, just has to have less drops.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 01:30 AM
How to Defend a QB's failures 101

Step 1. Blame the Defense

Step 2. Blame the Receivers, Running backs and Offensive Line

Step 3.(rare) Blame the Special teams

Step 4 Blame the Coaches

Step 5. Use of the "If" argument

If you find yourself using any of these arguments to defend your or any other QB then odds are, that QB ****ed up :)

Oh I almost forgot. Step 6 - Cry and yell "That's my Quarterback!" multiple times

We as Giants fans are experts of these teachings and hopefully Saints, Packers, Patriots and Cowboy fans can become ones too. Enjoy your evening

This is funny b/c when TC was asked what they keys to victory are he says you have to perform well on offense, defense, and special teams. He says most importantly you can't turn the ball over. When you don't do those things chances are you will lose and it is possible that your quarterback played well and you failed in other aspects of the game.

We as Giants fans have wide and varying views. We do agree that the Giants are the best team ever.

Drez
04-10-2012, 01:33 AM
Here's a great article related to the debate. It's kind of surprising coming from the Bleacher Report.

Who's the better brother? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1090869-eli-manning-vs-peyton-manning-which-brother-is-the-better-quarterback)
Now you're citing Bleacher Report?

You sure are reaching the bottom of the barrel.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 01:36 AM
So because Hakeem Nicks outplayed every other receiver in the postseason, does that mean he's the best receiver in the NFL right now?

I think Nicks has a real shot at it some day. Dude has it all, just has to have less drops.


Nicks is my favorite Giant now, but he's going to have show an ability to beat the best CBs one on one to be considered the best. Revis put the clamps on him this season, though he was a bit nicked up. If your the best no one CB can shut you down. He also needs to show an ability to beat the double team to. He has done this a few times, but he needs to do it with more consistency. IMO, the best right now is CJ in Detroit. Nicks is top 5 though.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:37 AM
says the guy who argues ryan, newton, and romo were better last season...lmfao pls pls stop. ok we get ur position. its dead wrong but we get it. some how romo is still a better qb, LMFAO...RYAN????NEWTON?????ROMO????

newton is a much better scrambler yes, but ryan and romo are a clear tier below eli. u couldnt find one knowledgable analyst who'd put eli at 7th in the nfc which is why you could, lack of knowledge...

You clearly like to read what you want to read. I said arguments could be made that those guys had better seasons. I didn't say they were actually better. I even noted that. The point was Eli was amongst those guys as far as regular season performances go. And on many occasions last season, I've stated that Eli is a better QB than Romo-- and those statements weren't even exclusive to this board.

But since you think it's so laughable, I'll outline the arguments that could be made...

--Matt Ryan had the same amount of touchdowns and less turnovers than Eli and his team finished a game better than the Giants

-- Cam Newton accounted for 7 more touchdowns than Eli, committed one less turnover, broke a rookie passing record, and accounted for just 200 less yards of total offense than Eli on an otherwise pretty abysmal team.

-- Romo had basically the same stats as Matt Ryan, but slightly better and outside of 2 games played phenominally.

Obviously with the regular season over I'd say Eli had the better year than those three guys, but it's not by a laughable margin by any means. The only laughable margin is the disparity in play between Eli and the guys above him.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 01:39 AM
Here's a great article related to the debate. It's kind of surprising coming from the Bleacher Report.

Who's the better brother? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1090869-eli-manning-vs-peyton-manning-which-brother-is-the-better-quarterback)
Now you're citing Bleacher Report?

You sure are reaching the bottom of the barrel.


LOL! I know I feel the same about them, but the article was surprisingly well thought out.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:41 AM
So because Hakeem Nicks outplayed every other receiver in the postseason, does that mean he's the best receiver in the NFL right now?

I think Nicks has a real shot at it some day. Dude has it all, just has to have less drops.


Nicks is my favorite Giant now, but he's going to have show an ability to beat the best CBs one on one to be considered the best. Revis put the clamps on him this season, though he was a bit nicked up. If your the best no one CB can shut you down. He also needs to show an ability to beat the double team to. He has done this a few times, but he needs to do it with more consistency. IMO, the best right now is CJ in Detroit. Nicks is top 5 though.'

If Nicks got Star treatment the playing field would be even when he matches up with Revis. Otherwise, Revis gets away with a lot of contact.

Drez
04-10-2012, 01:41 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.

slipknottin
04-10-2012, 01:44 AM
Giant now, but he's going to have show an ability to beat the best CBs one on one to be considered the best. Revis put the clamps on him this season, though he was a bit nicked up.

Revis does that to everyone.

Look at the games that Andre and Calvin Johnson have had against him. Their stat lines are usually in the realm of 1 catch for 13 yards.

Only receiver in the league that seems to know how to beat Revis is Stevie Johnson, and I certainly wouldnt put Stevie Johnson as the best receiver in the league just based of his ability to beat Revis

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:49 AM
says the guy who argues ryan, newton, and romo were better last season...lmfao pls pls stop. ok we get ur position. its dead wrong but we get it. some how romo is still a better qb, LMFAO...RYAN????NEWTON?????ROMO????

newton is a much better scrambler yes, but ryan and romo are a clear tier below eli. u couldnt find one knowledgable analyst who'd put eli at 7th in the nfc which is why you could, lack of knowledge...

You clearly like to read what you want to read. I said arguments could be made that those guys had better seasons. I didn't say they were actually better. I even noted that. The point was Eli was amongst those guys as far as regular season performances go. And on many occasions last season, I've stated that Eli is a better QB than Romo-- and those statements weren't even exclusive to this board.

But since you think it's so laughable, I'll outline the arguments that could be made...

--Matt Ryan had the same amount of touchdowns and less turnovers than Eli and his team finished a game better than the Giants

-- Cam Newton accounted for 7 more touchdowns than Eli, committed one less turnover, broke a rookie passing record, and accounted for just 200 less yards of total offense than Eli on an otherwise pretty abysmal team.

-- Romo had basically the same stats as Matt Ryan, but slightly better and outside of 2 games played phenominally.

Obviously with the regular season over I'd say Eli had the better year than those three guys, but it's not by a laughable margin by any means. The only laughable margin is the disparity in play between Eli and the guys above him.




ryan- almost 1000 yards thrown less
newton- 13 rushing td's, 3000 yards passing. newton is a much better RB than eli, no argument there lmfao
romo-almost 1000 yards thrown less, single handily cost his team, what, 4 or 5 games, opposite of clutch.

not to mention, ryan and romo play in a dome, and had an easier schedule...really, not even close...lmfao....the disparity between eli and those qbs isnt laughable, its ur premise that has me pissing my pants...7th best qb in the nfc...lmfao.

its ok. nfl.com has an article up right now where they rank the qb's...eli-1rst (but realistically can be anywhere from 1-4, romo-14th...lmfao

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:49 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season performances, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:51 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

Drez
04-10-2012, 01:53 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season performances, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.

The fact that you think there's an argument to be made for any other QB in the NFC other than Rodgers and Brees means you've jumped the shark.

GmenFan1980
04-10-2012, 01:54 AM
How to Defend a QB's failures 101

Step 1. Blame the Defense

Step 2. Blame the Receivers, Running backs and Offensive Line

Step 3.(rare) Blame the Special teams

Step 4 Blame the Coaches

Step 5. Use of the "If" argument

If you find yourself using any of these arguments to defend your or any other QB then odds are, that QB ****ed up :)

Oh I almost forgot. Step 6 - Cry and yell "That's my Quarterback!" multiple times

We as Giants fans are experts of these teachings and hopefully Saints, Packers, Patriots and Cowboy fans can become ones too. Enjoy your evening

This is funny b/c when TC was asked what they keys to victory are he says you have to perform well on offense, defense, and special teams. He says most importantly you can't turn the ball over. When you don't do those things chances are you will lose and it is possible that your quarterback played well and you failed in other aspects of the game.

We as Giants fans have wide and varying views. We do agree that the Giants are the best team ever.

Yes the Giants are the best :)

I didn't write that just for the lol. it's true in every sense. All great QB's are given these excuses by fans

Eli- the interceptions last year and people constantly trying to defend him, by saying it was the receivers fault

Arron- People don't blame Arron Rogers for losing against us[despite playing just as poorly]. They blame his defense and receivers.

Drew- People don't blame Brees for losing to San Fran despite being just as much a reason for them having to play catch up. They blame his defense

I don't know, I just feel people refuse to blame QB that they feel are Great(Elite) and instead choose to blame the loss on anything else.

Are there times when it just is not a QB's fault? of course, but to blame something or someone else for a QB's screw ups is just silly to me.

K my rant is over

THE_New_York_Giants
04-10-2012, 02:00 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

I guess the only difference between Eli, Romo, and Ryan is that Eli seems to win when it matters. I guess that's a big difference between Eli, Marino, Peyton, Vick, and pretty much any name you can throw out there.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 02:02 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season performances, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.

The fact that you think there's an argument to be made for any other QB in the NFC other than Rodgers and Brees means you've jumped the shark.


I'm curious. Tell me how there isn't? And remember, we're talking about the performances of the quarterbacks in the regular season. Newton, Ryan and Romo all had very good seasons last year. The only place where Eli really just trumps them on the stat line is yards, but he also has a worse off td to int ratio. And in Newton's case, it's really not by much when you factor in his rushing yards.

And then you have to factor in that Ryan helped his team had a better record, Romo was injured, Newton didn't have much help.

Look, I'm not saying those guys performances were better, but they were comparable, and I could see how some could argue that their performances were better. I've seen it argued on many forums and I've seen good points made.

By the way, you're forgetting Stafford. You know the guy with 5000 yards passing, 41 touchdowns with a higher completion percentage and helped his team to a better record?

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 02:03 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

I guess the only difference between Eli, Romo, and Ryan is that Eli seems to win when it matters. I guess that's a big difference between Eli, Marino, Peyton, Vick, and pretty much any name you can throw out there.

This is a fair argument.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 02:18 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season performances, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.

The fact that you think there's an argument to be made for any other QB in the NFC other than Rodgers and Brees means you've jumped the shark.


I'm curious. Tell me how there isn't? And remember, we're talking about the performances of the quarterbacks in the regular season. Newton, Ryan and Romo all had very good seasons last year. The only place where Eli really just trumps them on the stat line is yards, but he also has a worse off td to int ratio. And in Newton's case, it's really not by much when you factor in his rushing yards.

And then you have to factor in that Ryan helped his team had a better record, Romo was injured, Newton didn't have much help.

Look, I'm not saying those guys performances were better, but they were comparable, and I could see how some could argue that their performances were better. I've seen it argued on many forums and I've seen good points made.

By the way, you're forgetting Stafford. You know the guy with 5000 yards passing, 41 touchdowns with a higher completion percentage and helped his team to a better record?


no matter how hard you try, you cannot erase THE POST SEASON, which when combined with eli's regular season, places eli above the rest as the BEST QB...WOOOO

Flip Empty
04-10-2012, 02:19 AM
This thread is ****ing stupid

GmenFan1980
04-10-2012, 02:24 AM
This thread is ****ing stupid

http://troll.me/images/creepy-willy-wonka/you-say-this-thread-is-stupid-yours-must-be-amazing-thumb.jpg

THE_New_York_Giants
04-10-2012, 02:33 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

I guess the only difference between Eli, Romo, and Ryan is that Eli seems to win when it matters. I guess that's a big difference between Eli, Marino, Peyton, Vick, and pretty much any name you can throw out there.

This is a fair argument.


My top 5 for next year prediction is:
1. Rodgers
2. Stafford
3. Brees
4. Eli
5. Brady
But, IMO, Brady is on the decline and only has maybe one or two good years left. Peyton will have a Montana on the Chiefs kind of year.

Flip Empty
04-10-2012, 03:43 AM
I think Brady will be just fine for the time being. Presuming the Pats get him a field-stretcher or two, he should do better than he did last season. He's done wonders with a slot receiver and a couple of tight ends.

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 07:47 AM
New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

The fact that you have to comeback in the 4th quarter means that for whatever reason you were in effective for 3 quarters. So the fact that Eli has more 4th quarter comebacks than other QBs does not mean he is more clutch than the QBs I mentioned it means he played without the lead more than they have. You can't discredit a QB for blowing out the opposition out or never relinquishing the lead.

The more you talk about the defense in the SB the more you show you don't really get my point.

I'll use a baseball metaphor. I'm an O's fan so let's say a pitcher for the Orioles is facing the Yankees best lineup of all time. The O's Mike Mussina has a 3.73 ERA and had an okay season. In fact his ERA is ranked 17th in the AL. The Yankees lineup leads the majors in batting avg, runs scored, and home runs. They've set all-time records for each category for all of MLB. It's considered to be the best lineup of all time. So here we are in the ALCS Game 1 and Muss holds them to one run for 8 innings, but the almighty Yankees take the lead in the top of the ninth 2-1. The O's Roberto Alomar hits a 2 run homer in the bottom of the 9th to win the game. Can you honestly say that Mussina collapsed or rolled over giving up 2 runs to the all world Yankees for 9 innings? More impressive than the 9th inning walk off HR is holding the best line-up ever to 2 runs over 9 innings.

The sport is different but the logic is the same for the 2007 SB. When I say "Strahan's last stand" I'm referring to the SB game not the whole season. That defensive effort was mythical and legendary. Brady himself laughed when a he heard Plax said we would hold them to 17 pts. Clearly he thought that was a joke. We held them to 14 points. Spags got his head coaching shot off that effort. It's the FEROCIOUS effort of the NYG D that gave Eli a shot at winning the game at the end of the 4th quarter. 5 sacks, even more knock downs- yes that counts as FEORCIOUS! Nobody even gave us a chance at being in the game. Key to victory was the DEFENSE- hands down.

Might I remind you that 2007 Drive of Eli's is reliant on an insane catch made by Tyree and an awful throw. We scored on a wide open throw to Plax. The receivers should get as much credit as Eli for that drive. There was no great throw made on that drive as in the 2011 SB. I just watched it again on YouTube. Great moment. The kid did what he had to do but it doesn't make him better than Dan Marino, or Peyton, or Elway, or Rodgers.

<font size="5" face="arial" color="red">I want you to say it. Repeat after me,"Eli is not in Joe Montana's league. Eli is not in Dan Marino's league. Eli is not in Elway's league. Eli is not as good as Peyton Manning. Eli is not as good as AR"</font>, and this is not even a real argument on any board unaffiliated with the G-men.

You are a NY Giants fan and a Baltimore Orioles fan. That is truly pathetic.

Kind of funny how you want to give all the credit to NY Giants “ferocious” defense in SuperBowl XLII but none to Eli Manning for what he did in SuperBowl XLII against New England Patriots defense which happenned to be the better one.

As I stated, NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was nowhere near ferocious.

Who the heck doesn’t laugh at what Plexiglass Burress has to say?

The “ferocious” defense gave up the lead in the 4th quarter. If they were as “ferocious” as you keep harping about, they wouldn’t have been able to do that. Eli Manning had to run the clock down because if New England Patriots got that ball left with a decvent amount of time, they would have scored on NY Giants defense.

Maybe you didn’t give NY Giants a chance in SuperBowl XLII but a lot of us did. Especially after how we would have beaten them on the last game of the season if our defense had held up.

Might I remind you that the David Tyree catch was on 3rd and 5. It was not last ditch and if he doesn’t make the catch, we still had another down. Might I also remind you that Eli Manning was dead to rights on that play but he escaped the clutches of the defense and made that throw.

Of course this is a real argument on non G-men boards because other folks beside NY Giants fans are giving Eli Manning his due. Of course they are in the minority and most folks out there will state that Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees are better QBs but Eli Manning is legitimately in the discussion for being best in NFL. Heck, the only other QB playing right now as successful as Eli Manning is Tom Brady.

John Elway and Dan Marino aren’t in the same league as Eli Manning is what you should have written. Yeah I know you are going to state that Dan Marino never had a running game and that when John Elway got a runningback he won the SuperBowl but the fact of the matter is that Eli Manning this past season had a worse running game than they ever did.

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 07:50 AM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

You make a great point here.

Of course the Dallas Cowboys fan is going to harp on the play of a QB during the regular season. It is all he has. Tony Romo collapses under pressure.

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 08:05 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

I guess the only difference between Eli, Romo, and Ryan is that Eli seems to win when it matters. I guess that's a big difference between Eli, Marino, Peyton, Vick, and pretty much any name you can throw out there.

This is a fair argument.


My top 5 for next year prediction is:
1. Rodgers
2. Stafford
3. Brees
4. Eli
5. Brady
But, IMO, Brady is on the decline and only has maybe one or two good years left. Peyton will have a Montana on the Chiefs kind of year.

Last season Tom Brady threw for almost 5300 yards. How is that a decline?

Moss#83
04-10-2012, 08:15 AM
I'm also a huge fan of blowouts. And if I remember correctly, didn't Eli take AR's belt bent him over and gave him a pretty good spanking in the playoffs this year?

Moss#83
04-10-2012, 08:56 AM
br>
Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.
2 of Brees TD came off of dump off passes to Sproles and Graham where they did all the work. That blew up his QB rating. Overall he was shaky and if you think he played better than Eli because of QB rating then you are clearly clueless and a blind hater. Eli not only outplayed him, he made Brees look like an ametuer. Imagine Brees playing behind the Giants O-line in that weather Eli played in? LOLLLL that's a wrap. We would've been looking at a 5 interception game and a blowout for the 9ers.

Nobody including Brees would've gotten up after the beating Eli took against the 9ers.

Flip Empty
04-10-2012, 09:38 AM
br>
Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.
2 of Brees TD came off of dump off passes to Sproles and Graham where they did all the work. That blew up his QB rating. Overall he was shaky and if you think he played better than Eli because of QB rating then you are clearly clueless and a blind hater. Eli not only outplayed him, he made Brees look like an ametuer. Imagine Brees playing behind the Giants O-line in that weather Eli played in? LOLLLL that's a wrap. We would've been looking at a 5 interception game and a blowout for the 9ers.

Nobody including Brees would've gotten up after the beating Eli took against the 9ers.
These arguments are getting worse. You can't use theory as a substitute for fact.

Moss#83
04-10-2012, 09:52 AM
br>
Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.
2 of Brees TD came off of dump off passes to Sproles and Graham where they did all the work. That blew up his QB rating. Overall he was shaky and if you think he played better than Eli because of QB rating then you are clearly clueless and a blind hater. Eli not only outplayed him, he made Brees look like an ametuer. Imagine Brees playing behind the Giants O-line in that weather Eli played in? LOLLLL that's a wrap. We would've been looking at a 5 interception game and a blowout for the 9ers.

Nobody including Brees would've gotten up after the beating Eli took against the 9ers.
These arguments are getting worse. You can't use theory as a substitute for fact.Not using a theory it's a fact He had him beat in about every stat except for QB Rating. Eli outplayed Brees in worse weather and a worse O-Line. That is a fact. To say Brees was better because of his Qb rating is a joke and that is a fact as well. Anybody with 2 eyes that can clearly see knew Eli outplayed Brees with a worse team around him and in terrible weather.

You guys crack me up.

Flip Empty
04-10-2012, 09:55 AM
br>
Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.
2 of Brees TD came off of dump off passes to Sproles and Graham where they did all the work. That blew up his QB rating. Overall he was shaky and if you think he played better than Eli because of QB rating then you are clearly clueless and a blind hater. Eli not only outplayed him, he made Brees look like an ametuer. Imagine Brees playing behind the Giants O-line in that weather Eli played in? LOLLLL that's a wrap. We would've been looking at a 5 interception game and a blowout for the 9ers.

Nobody including Brees would've gotten up after the beating Eli took against the 9ers.
These arguments are getting worse. You can't use theory as a substitute for fact.Not using a theory it's a fact He had him beat in about every stat except for QB Rating. Eli outplayed Brees in worse weather and a worse O-Line. That is a fact. To say Brees was better because of his Qb rating is a joke and that is a fact as well. Anybody with 2 eyes that can clearly see knew Eli outplayed Brees with a worse team around him and in terrible weather.

You guys crack me up.
"Imagine Brees playing behind the Giants O-line in that weather Eli played in? LOLLLL that's a wrap. We would've been looking at a 5 interception game and a blowout for the 9ers.

Nobody including Brees would've gotten up after the beating Eli took against the 9ers."

Try again.

Mercury
04-10-2012, 10:46 AM
Giants fans know we have a great team with a great QB. We know at times Eli put this team on his back this year and carried them to the promised land.

Outsiders don't realize the talent we have. They think we are a stat aberration - a 9-7 team that got lucky or hot at the right time. They will go ahead and predict the Cowboys, Eagles, or Redskins will win the division this year. They will say Eli isn't great, and begrudgingly concede that he is clutch.

RF says it best, never argue with an idiot, they will only pull you down to their level.

THE_New_York_Giants
04-10-2012, 11:40 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

I guess the only difference between Eli, Romo, and Ryan is that Eli seems to win when it matters. I guess that's a big difference between Eli, Marino, Peyton, Vick, and pretty much any name you can throw out there.

This is a fair argument.


My top 5 for next year prediction is:
1. Rodgers
2. Stafford
3. Brees
4. Eli
5. Brady
But, IMO, Brady is on the decline and only has maybe one or two good years left. Peyton will have a Montana on the Chiefs kind of year.

Last season Tom Brady threw for almost 5300 yards. How is that a decline?
With the exception of the Denver games, Brady looked a bit tired down the stretch. His demeanor tells me that he's getting old, which is why I said he has one or two good years left. Could he have more? Sure. But Brady will be 35 in August. It's like Peyton Manning. I just don't see them being around or being factors in 3 years. And it's not a knock against them, they are just getting old. QB's don't normally last 15 years. There are exceptions, but these guys are approaching the twilight of their careers.

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 11:50 AM
br>
Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.
2 of Brees TD came off of dump off passes to Sproles and Graham where they did all the work. That blew up his QB rating. Overall he was shaky and if you think he played better than Eli because of QB rating then you are clearly clueless and a blind hater. Eli not only outplayed him, he made Brees look like an ametuer. Imagine Brees playing behind the Giants O-line in that weather Eli played in? LOLLLL that's a wrap. We would've been looking at a 5 interception game and a blowout for the 9ers.

Nobody including Brees would've gotten up after the beating Eli took against the 9ers.

The last statement is one of the main things that seperate Eli Manning from the other QBs in the NFL. Or we can just quote quote Earnie Arcorsi “there are two things that will seperate Eli Manning from the rest of the QBs in the NFL. The size of his right testicle and the size of his left testicle."

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 11:55 AM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

I guess the only difference between Eli, Romo, and Ryan is that Eli seems to win when it matters. I guess that's a big difference between Eli, Marino, Peyton, Vick, and pretty much any name you can throw out there.

This is a fair argument.


My top 5 for next year prediction is:
1. Rodgers
2. Stafford
3. Brees
4. Eli
5. Brady
But, IMO, Brady is on the decline and only has maybe one or two good years left. Peyton will have a Montana on the Chiefs kind of year.

Last season Tom Brady threw for almost 5300 yards. How is that a decline?
With the exception of the Denver games, Brady looked a bit tired down the stretch. His demeanor tells me that he's getting old, which is why I said he has one or two good years left. Could he have more? Sure. But Brady will be 35 in August. It's like Peyton Manning. I just don't see them being around or being factors in 3 years. And it's not a knock against them, they are just getting old. QB's don't normally last 15 years. There are exceptions, but these guys are approaching the twilight of their careers.

Obviously Tom Brady’s is in the tail end of his career but I don’t think he has slowed down yet. Baltimore Ravens defense played him real tight in the playoffs and I think he actually had a good game against us. He almost beat us in SuperBowl XVI and he also broke the record for most consecutive pass completions in a SuperBowl in that game.

I think Tom Brady is going to play for 5 more years and I think he will continue to be great.

THE_New_York_Giants
04-10-2012, 12:50 PM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

I guess the only difference between Eli, Romo, and Ryan is that Eli seems to win when it matters. I guess that's a big difference between Eli, Marino, Peyton, Vick, and pretty much any name you can throw out there.

This is a fair argument.


My top 5 for next year prediction is:
1. Rodgers
2. Stafford
3. Brees
4. Eli
5. Brady
But, IMO, Brady is on the decline and only has maybe one or two good years left. Peyton will have a Montana on the Chiefs kind of year.

Last season Tom Brady threw for almost 5300 yards. How is that a decline?
With the exception of the Denver games, Brady looked a bit tired down the stretch. His demeanor tells me that he's getting old, which is why I said he has one or two good years left. Could he have more? Sure. But Brady will be 35 in August. It's like Peyton Manning. I just don't see them being around or being factors in 3 years. And it's not a knock against them, they are just getting old. QB's don't normally last 15 years. There are exceptions, but these guys are approaching the twilight of their careers.

Obviously Tom Brady’s is in the tail end of his career but I don’t think he has slowed down yet. Baltimore Ravens defense played him real tight in the playoffs and I think he actually had a good game against us. He almost beat us in SuperBowl XVI and he also broke the record for most consecutive pass completions in a SuperBowl in that game.

I think Tom Brady is going to play for 5 more years and I think he will continue to be great.
Neither scenario would surprise me.

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 03:10 PM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.

You have now officially jumped the shark.


No Drez, you're failing to read what I'm writing. I could see the argument made for those QBs having better seasons. Hell, I've seen the argument made on these very boards before the season was over. Of course now that the season is over those arguments don't hold much weight. But if we're talking about regular season, a few of those guys belong in the same category.

Does that mean they're better? Absolutely not. Matt Ryan is the most overrated QB in the NFL and doesn't belong in the top 10. Cam Newton still has a lot more to prove, as does Romo. But their performances last year? Not too far off from Eli's.


well then ur arguing against a premise no one made...after the regular season AND postseason, eli cemented himself the #1 qb in the nfl. simple as that. and that statement is much more valid than any statement u've made here

edit-and romo is way more overrated than ryan

I guess the only difference between Eli, Romo, and Ryan is that Eli seems to win when it matters. I guess that's a big difference between Eli, Marino, Peyton, Vick, and pretty much any name you can throw out there.

This is a fair argument.


My top 5 for next year prediction is:
1. Rodgers
2. Stafford
3. Brees
4. Eli
5. Brady
But, IMO, Brady is on the decline and only has maybe one or two good years left. Peyton will have a Montana on the Chiefs kind of year.

Last season Tom Brady threw for almost 5300 yards. How is that a decline?
With the exception of the Denver games, Brady looked a bit tired down the stretch. His demeanor tells me that he's getting old, which is why I said he has one or two good years left. Could he have more? Sure. But Brady will be 35 in August. It's like Peyton Manning. I just don't see them being around or being factors in 3 years. And it's not a knock against them, they are just getting old. QB's don't normally last 15 years. There are exceptions, but these guys are approaching the twilight of their careers.

Obviously Tom Brady’s is in the tail end of his career but I don’t think he has slowed down yet. Baltimore Ravens defense played him real tight in the playoffs and I think he actually had a good game against us. He almost beat us in SuperBowl XVI and he also broke the record for most consecutive pass completions in a SuperBowl in that game.

I think Tom Brady is going to play for 5 more years and I think he will continue to be great.
Neither scenario would surprise me.

I would have to agree with that if either scenario played out I wouldn’t be surprised. Sometimes athletes get old very quick. Sometimes they don’t.

gmen46
04-10-2012, 05:27 PM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.


As much a strong believer in Eli that I am, and his premier abilities as a NFL QB, and his now clear Giants-best QB in history status, I am not yet ready to declare (not without some qualification at least) Eli as the BEST QB as of 2011.

But Jason Smith, whose nfl.com recent QB rankings of 2011--regular AND post season--provoked this long and winding thread, has made a very compelling case for ranking Eli #1 QB as of right now.

At worst, it can be argued that during regular season 2011 Eli was a top 7 QB in the LEAGUE, not the NFC as you posit.

Per your directive to gf420, I did look up the regular season stat lines of each QB.

With exception of completion % (ranked 13th in NFL), interceptions (tied with 7th most), Eli ranked from 1st to 7th in the league in all other key categories, including 1st in passes of 40+ yds, 6th in TDs, 7th best Rating in NFL, and rankings of 4th or 5th NFL best in all other key categories.

And then there was the 2011 post season, where he was second only to--after 4 games--Brees, with a 103.3 post season QB Rating, 9 TDs, 1 int, and Super Bowl win / MVP.

Overall, I cannot find anyone who rates 2011 Eli lower than 5th best, at WORST for 2011 as having any credibility in this argument.

I don't think you fall into that category, do you?

(And bringing Cam, after only one season, into this conversation? Really?)

Drez
04-10-2012, 05:34 PM
ZWAAAAAAAAAAA???????? Brees threw more Ints in one game than Eli threw in a 6 game stretch. Brees played better vs the 9ers than Eli?????/ LMFAO...only a dallas fan in denial...

its all good. u can go on believing eli was the "7th" best qb in the nfc was it u said?LMFAO...

bottom line, NFL.com lists Eli Manning as the #1 QB, and with Eli's resume, it's impossible not to.

I can, and will say it, Eli Manning was MUCH better than Brees in the postseason. higher qb rating, better td to int ratio, higher completion %, 3 td's a game, with 300 yards a game...its cool tho im outta here...eli the 7th best qb of the nfc lmfao

Drew Brees had a higher rating in the post season, and despite a 2 interception game against San Fran, he had a higher rating than Eli in the common game as well.

If you're going to use the clutch factor for Eli, then I think it's well within reason to compare his most impressive game with that of a top tier QB, don't you agree? Brees ripped the 9ers defense apart in the fourth quarter, leading his team to 18 points.

And yes... arguably the 7th best. I wouldn't say he was actually the 7th best, but I could see people making cases for Newton, Ryan, and even Romo over Manning during the regular season. Before you dispute this, just look up the stat lines of each of those QBs.


As much a strong believer in Eli that I am, and his premier abilities as a NFL QB, and his now clear Giants-best QB in history status, I am not yet ready to declare (not without some qualification at least) Eli as the BEST QB as of 2011.

But Jason Smith, whose nfl.com recent QB rankings of 2011--regular AND post season--provoked this long and winding thread, has made a very compelling case for ranking Eli #1 QB as of right now.

At worst, it can be argued that during regular season 2011 Eli was a top 7 QB in the LEAGUE, not the NFC as you posit.

Per your directive to gf420, I did look up the regular season stat lines of each QB.

With exception of completion % (ranked 13th in NFL), interceptions (tied with 7th most), Eli ranked from 1st to 7th in the league in all other key categories, including 1st in passes of 40+ yds, 6th in TDs, 7th best Rating in NFL, and rankings of 4th or 5th NFL best in all other key categories.

And then there was the 2011 post season, where he was second only to--after 4 games--Brees, with a 103.3 post season QB Rating, 9 TDs, 1 int, and Super Bowl win / MVP.

Overall, I cannot find anyone who rates 2011 Eli lower than 5th best, at WORST for 2011 as having any credibility in this argument.

I don't think you fall into that category, do you?

(And bringing Cam, after only one season, into this conversation? Really?)
I also find it amusing that Ntegrase96 uses QBR as his sole indicator of why Brees played better in the SF game than Eli did. Anyone with eyes that actually watched the game realizes that Eli had a brilliant, if not statistically stunning, performance in the NFCCG.

Unfortunately, even though he's normally an intelligent poster, he's letting his Cowboys roots show here. He confusing having a better stat line with actually being a better QB.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 05:37 PM
<font size= "5">John Elway and Dan Marino aren’t in the same league as Eli Manning is what you should have written.</font> .

Cocaine is a dangerous drug.

Drez
04-10-2012, 05:45 PM
<font size="5">John Elway and Dan Marino aren’t in the same league as Eli Manning is what you should have written.</font> .

Cocaine is a dangerous drug.
So, why do you keep snorting it?


I'm not addicted to cocaine, I just really love the way it smells!!

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 06:18 PM
<font size= "5">John Elway and Dan Marino aren’t in the same league as Eli Manning is what you should have written.</font> .

Cocaine is a dangerous drug.

I don’t do drugs. Only maytag *****es like you do.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 07:18 PM
<font size="5">John Elway and Dan Marino aren’t in the same league as Eli Manning is what you should have written.</font> .

Cocaine is a dangerous drug.
So, why do you keep snorting it?


I'm not addicted to cocaine, I just really love the way it smells!!


Wow Drez you reall must be on your last leg to quote words I never said or posted. What gives? Are you dating buffyblue? Or are you guys holding hands in the back of Starbucks as we speak? Never mind, I don't want to know. This debate has digressed and you seem to be getting a bit emotional.

I apologize Buffyblue if I insulted you. It was a light joke. I figure after that last post saying Elway and Marino weren't in Eli's league you had a great sense of humor also.

Drez
04-10-2012, 07:29 PM
<font size="5">John Elway and Dan Marino aren’t in the same league as Eli Manning is what you should have written.</font> .

Cocaine is a dangerous drug.
So, why do you keep snorting it?


I'm not addicted to cocaine, I just really love the way it smells!!


Wow Drez you reall must be on your last leg to quote words I never said or posted. What gives? Are you dating buffyblue? Or are you guys holding hands in the back of Starbucks as we speak? Never mind, I don't want to know. This debate has digressed and you seem to be getting a bit emotional.

I apologize Buffyblue if I insulted you. It was a light joke. I figure after that last post saying Elway and Marino weren't in Eli's league you had a great sense of humor also.
You're the only one who's getting their panties in a bunch. Talk about someone not having a sense of humor. And you're whole, "Cocaine is a hell of a drug," bit got old 30 years ago.

This thread has only digressed because you abandoned you're ridiculous propositions and started making personal attacks. I don't need to stoop there. Your position provides ample fodder of which to make fun.

Only the blind and ignorant do not believe that Eli is legitimately in the discussion as best QB. The fact that you see things otherwise does not change that fact.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 08:28 PM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

You make a great point here.

Of course the Dallas Cowboys fan is going to harp on the play of a QB during the regular season. It is all he has. Tony Romo collapses under pressure.

I guess that's why Giantsfan420 was the person that began the discussion about regular season play...?

But I'm done talking about this topic. It's going nowhere pretty fast.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 08:44 PM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

You make a great point here.

Of course the Dallas Cowboys fan is going to harp on the play of a QB during the regular season. It is all he has. Tony Romo collapses under pressure.

I guess that's why Giantsfan420 was the person that began the discussion about regular season play...?

But I'm done talking about this topic. It's going nowhere pretty fast.


lmfao. from jump street i've said that using the regular season alone i wouldnt say eli's the best qb. the regular season AND the postseason, eli has solidified his place as the leagues best qb, which Jason Smith of NFL.com agrees.

dont let the door hit you on the way out dumbass....

for the record, the ONLY person solely focusing on the regular season was you, bc its quite evident, that combining the regular season AND postseason, only a complete moron would just suppose the premises you've made...LMFAO...7th best in the NFC lmfao. but I do understand why you'd only focus on the regular season seeing as dallas hasn't done dikc **** in the postseason in what, 17 years now?

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 08:50 PM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

funny how when people's arguments get owned, they start concocting things...still find it funny that you couldn't straight up answer the simple question:
did ANY qb play better than Eli in the postseason???

ih and btw, every analyst worth their salt has said eli's play vs SF was the stuff legends are made of. Trent Dilfer went as far to say "the SF game is why the QB rating can be so invalid. eli's play vs SF was the absolute best a QB can play in that situation."

again tho, i wouldnt expect you to understand that, or even be able to make legitimate arguments, as again, you've displayed that your mental capacity was over limit quite a whiles ago, 7th best in the nfc...lmfao. just stings your cooch that in big games, dallas has lost by multi possessions for years now. that dallas vs philly game a few years ago to close the regular season was HILARIOUS. what was it, 44-6 or something with back to back to back to back to back turnovers by romo...lmfao. 8)

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 09:16 PM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

funny how when people's arguments get owned, they start concocting things...still find it funny that you couldn't straight up answer the simple question:
did ANY qb play better than Eli in the postseason???

ih and btw, every analyst worth their salt has said eli's play vs SF was the stuff legends are made of. Trent Dilfer went as far to say "the SF game is why the QB rating can be so invalid. eli's play vs SF was the absolute best a QB can play in that situation."

again tho, i wouldnt expect you to understand that, or even be able to make legitimate arguments, as again, you've displayed that your mental capacity was over limit quite a whiles ago, 7th best in the nfc...lmfao. just stings your cooch that in big games, dallas has lost by multi possessions for years now. that dallas vs philly game a few years ago to close the regular season was HILARIOUS. what was it, 44-6 or something with back to back to back to back to back turnovers by romo...lmfao. 8)

This is the second time I've observed you replying to your own post. Do you need a hug buddy? I see a lot of insults and anger in your posts. This board is just about healthy football debate. You want to go to war you should join a paintball team.

I just disagree that Eli is the best QB. This isn't personal. Settle down Bevis.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 09:29 PM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

funny how when people's arguments get owned, they start concocting things...still find it funny that you couldn't straight up answer the simple question:
did ANY qb play better than Eli in the postseason???

ih and btw, every analyst worth their salt has said eli's play vs SF was the stuff legends are made of. Trent Dilfer went as far to say "the SF game is why the QB rating can be so invalid. eli's play vs SF was the absolute best a QB can play in that situation."

again tho, i wouldnt expect you to understand that, or even be able to make legitimate arguments, as again, you've displayed that your mental capacity was over limit quite a whiles ago, 7th best in the nfc...lmfao. just stings your cooch that in big games, dallas has lost by multi possessions for years now. that dallas vs philly game a few years ago to close the regular season was HILARIOUS. what was it, 44-6 or something with back to back to back to back to back turnovers by romo...lmfao. 8)

I answered your question. Just because it wasn't the answer you wanted doesn't mean I avoided it. I felt like Drew Brees was the best quarterback in the post season, remember? But I also said I can see the argument for Eli as well. He played great in the playoffs and his team went further than Brees.

Look, I'm all for discussing and debating football, but it seems like this particular topic has you all worked up for some reason and like I said, it's going nowhere fast. We're just saying the same things back and forth.

So I'm done talking about it.

Drez
04-10-2012, 09:40 PM
I answered your question. Just because it wasn't the answer you wanted doesn't mean I avoided it. I felt like Drew Brees was the best quarterback in the post season, remember? But I also said I can see the argument for Eli as well. He played great in the playoffs and his team went further than Brees.

Look, I'm all for discussing and debating football, but it seems like this particular topic has you all worked up for some reason and like I said, it's going nowhere fast. We're just saying the same things back and forth.

So I'm done talking about it.

You're killing me, Nt. Do you really think that? Or are you just saying that to get a rise out of people?

I mean, you seem to know your ****, so it's kind of shocking that you think Brees had the best playoff performance this postseason. Even if you're just referencing the individual games, it's definitely a stretch to say that Brees had the better performance. He may have had a better statline (viz. QBR), but Eli definitely had one of the best, gutsiest performances in recent playoff history.

I won't get into the "what-ifs" about if Eli got to play SF in the weather that Brees did or vice versa, but I do think that variable should be taken into account on some level. No QB is going to play as well in the rain and wind as he will in good weather.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 09:42 PM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

funny how when people's arguments get owned, they start concocting things...still find it funny that you couldn't straight up answer the simple question:
did ANY qb play better than Eli in the postseason???

ih and btw, every analyst worth their salt has said eli's play vs SF was the stuff legends are made of. Trent Dilfer went as far to say "the SF game is why the QB rating can be so invalid. eli's play vs SF was the absolute best a QB can play in that situation."

again tho, i wouldnt expect you to understand that, or even be able to make legitimate arguments, as again, you've displayed that your mental capacity was over limit quite a whiles ago, 7th best in the nfc...lmfao. just stings your cooch that in big games, dallas has lost by multi possessions for years now. that dallas vs philly game a few years ago to close the regular season was HILARIOUS. what was it, 44-6 or something with back to back to back to back to back turnovers by romo...lmfao. 8)

This is the second time I've observed you replying to your own post. Do you need a hug buddy? I see a lot of insults and anger in your posts. This board is just about healthy football debate. You want to go to war you should join a paintball team.

I just disagree that Eli is the best QB. This isn't personal. Settle down Bevis.

like you, cowboys fan CONCOCTED and MADE up premises and attributed them to me, simply bc he was wrong.

hence, I quote the post where theres no ifs ands or buts, and disprove the made up claims attributed to me.

no one cares what you have to say anymore you've made your point. i was discussing something with the cowboys fan, and again, he implied "i was the one who said eli was the best in the regular season" which, AS YOU CAN SEE ABOVE, is simply not true.

i know its not personal, butt head

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 10:28 PM
You're killing me, Nt. Do you really think that? Or are you just saying that to get a rise out of people?

I
mean, you seem to know your ****, so it's kind of shocking that you
think Brees had the best playoff performance this postseason. Even if
you're just referencing the individual games, it's definitely a stretch
to say that Brees had the better performance. He may have had a better
statline (viz. QBR), but Eli definitely had one of the best, gutsiest
performances in recent playoff history.

I won't get into the
"what-ifs" about if Eli got to play SF in the weather that Brees did or
vice versa, but I do think that variable should be taken into account
on some level. No QB is going to play as well in the rain and wind as
he will in good weather.




Brees had 466 yards passing in the first game and 462 yards passing the
2nd with 7 touchdowns-- both games against pretty tough defenses. The
weather may have been a factor, but it's so hard to account for what
the weather would have done.



For instance, the obvious effect of weather on Eli is that it may have
had a negative effect on Eli. But on the flip side, maybe the two balls
he threw right to the 49ers defenders would have been held on to. Or
maybe the 49ers pass rush would have been more effective with better
footing. Lots of variables to consider, but I'd rather not get into
what ifs. Let's just look at the 49ers game between the respective
quarterbacks.



The stats:

Brees: 40 of 63 (63%), 7.4 ypa, 2 ints, 3 touchdowns, 93.5 rtg.

Manning: 32 of 58 (55%) 5.4 ypa, 0 ints, 2 touchdowns, 82.5 rtg



I'd say the highlight of those stats would be the 0 ints that manning
threw. Obviously he made some mistakes, but the niners didn't
capitalize. Drew Brees had the gutsier performance that game IMO. Yes the 49ers stingy defense forced him into mistakes early on, but just as they didn't capitalize on the
Giants mistakes, the 9ers didn't really capitalize on the mistakes of
Brees and the Saints came charging back after being down 17-0. Then IIRC, retook
the lead twice in the final 3 and a half minutes. It took an absolutely
improbable meltdown from the Saints defense to lose that Game for Brees.



Of course, that's just one game and I can't in all honesty say that one
game is more impressive than a 4 game stretch. But I also don't fault
Brees for the Saints early playoff exit, and I was equally impressed
with his short stint in the playoffs in comparison with Eli, if not more.

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 10:33 PM
Has B&R dislodged Aaron Rodgers tool from his throat yet?

Eli Manning being in the discussion as having a claim to being best QB is a legitimate. Discussion about Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers having a claim as best QB is also legitimate. I think Eli Manning is second in NFL to only Tom Brady right now and I stated that. I guess maytag clowns like B&R have to start with insults because they don't like it when the debate goes away from their position. No biggie. Internet tough guys pull that nonsense all the time because it is all they have.

I actually think that Drew Brees was the third best QB this past postseason. What Tom Brady did to Denver Broncos and in the manner he did it was very special. He also played a great SuperBowl and almost pulled out the win. I would rate him as the second best QB of this past postseason and Eli Manning number one.

I really hope that everyone keeps under estimating Eli Manning some more because it is so much fun when he proves them wrong again and again.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 10:39 PM
Has B&amp;R dislodged Aaron Rodgers tool from his throat yet?

Eli Manning being in the discussion as having a claim to being best QB is a legitimate. Discussion about Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers having a claim as best QB is also legitimate. I think Eli Manning is second in NFL to only Tom Brady right now and I stated that. I guess maytag clowns like B&amp;R have to start with insults because they don't like it when the debate goes away from their position. No biggie. Internet tough guys pull that nonsense all the time because it is all they have.

I actually think that Drew Brees was the third best QB this past postseason. What Tom Brady did to Denver Broncos and in the manner he did it was very special. He also played a great SuperBowl and almost pulled out the win. I would rate him as the second best QB of this past postseason and Eli Manning number one.

I really hope that everyone keeps under estimating Eli Manning some more because it is so much fun when he proves them wrong again and again.

That's a pretty good point you bring up about Brady being the 2nd best in the post season. Regardless of where I rank post season performances, I have to keep in mind that Brady had the toughest road in the playoffs, facing very tough defenses in every game (Broncos, Ravens, Giants with the great pass rush).

But at the same time, Brady had a pretty awful showing against Baltimore, IIRC.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 10:43 PM
lmfao, drew brees performance vs SF was gutsier than Eli's performance vs SF? thank you, you have proven your theory or opinion is flat wrong...

trent dilfer on NYG vs SF

"This game is the perfect example of when to throw the QB rating out the window. The way Eli stood in the pocket, getting hit TWENTY ONE TIMES, making passes where his platform (feet) is in such a difficult position, this was the absolute best, gutsiest performance a QB can show..."

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 10:47 PM
Has B&R dislodged Aaron Rodgers tool from his throat yet?

Eli Manning being in the discussion as having a claim to being best QB is a legitimate. Discussion about Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers having a claim as best QB is also legitimate. I think Eli Manning is second in NFL to only Tom Brady right now and I stated that. I guess maytag clowns like B&R have to start with insults because they don't like it when the debate goes away from their position. No biggie. Internet tough guys pull that nonsense all the time because it is all they have.

I actually think that Drew Brees was the third best QB this past postseason. What Tom Brady did to Denver Broncos and in the manner he did it was very special. He also played a great SuperBowl and almost pulled out the win. I would rate him as the second best QB of this past postseason and Eli Manning number one.

I really hope that everyone keeps under estimating Eli Manning some more because it is so much fun when he proves them wrong again and again.

That's a pretty good point you bring up about Brady being the 2nd best in the post season. Regardless of where I rank post season performances, I have to keep in mind that Brady had the toughest road in the playoffs, facing very tough defenses in every game (Broncos, Ravens, Giants with the great pass rush).

But at the same time, Brady had a pretty awful showing against Baltimore, IIRC.


just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao

just to quash any argument ur going to make on the opponent record

denver-playing without Dawkins, and with Von Miller having one functional arm

Baltimore-Brady played poorly

Giants-awesome DL yes, but what was it, 30th ranked pass defense?



Atlanta-top 10 defense IIRC
GB-led NFL in takeaways
SF-top 3 D

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 10:49 PM
Has B&R dislodged Aaron Rodgers tool from his throat yet?

Eli Manning being in the discussion as having a claim to being best QB is a legitimate. Discussion about Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers having a claim as best QB is also legitimate. I think Eli Manning is second in NFL to only Tom Brady right now and I stated that. I guess maytag clowns like B&R have to start with insults because they don't like it when the debate goes away from their position. No biggie. Internet tough guys pull that nonsense all the time because it is all they have.

I actually think that Drew Brees was the third best QB this past postseason. What Tom Brady did to Denver Broncos and in the manner he did it was very special. He also played a great SuperBowl and almost pulled out the win. I would rate him as the second best QB of this past postseason and Eli Manning number one.

I really hope that everyone keeps under estimating Eli Manning some more because it is so much fun when he proves them wrong again and again.

I've since apologized for the perceived slight yet you seem unable to let it go. Obviously my apology is a sign of me trying to be an 'internet tough guy'.

I don't see anything new in this post. I've already stated my views and seeing as redundancy is not my cup of tea I'll let it go.

Keep rooting foe the Giants we need all of our fans support, even ones with a huge chip on their shoulder.

Drez
04-10-2012, 10:49 PM
Has B&amp;R dislodged Aaron Rodgers tool from his throat yet?

Eli Manning being in the discussion as having a claim to being best QB is a legitimate. Discussion about Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers having a claim as best QB is also legitimate. I think Eli Manning is second in NFL to only Tom Brady right now and I stated that. I guess maytag clowns like B&amp;R have to start with insults because they don't like it when the debate goes away from their position. No biggie. Internet tough guys pull that nonsense all the time because it is all they have.

I actually think that Drew Brees was the third best QB this past postseason. What Tom Brady did to Denver Broncos and in the manner he did it was very special. He also played a great SuperBowl and almost pulled out the win. I would rate him as the second best QB of this past postseason and Eli Manning number one.

I really hope that everyone keeps under estimating Eli Manning some more because it is so much fun when he proves them wrong again and again.

That's a pretty good point you bring up about Brady being the 2nd best in the post season. Regardless of where I rank post season performances, I have to keep in mind that Brady had the toughest road in the playoffs, facing very tough defenses in every game (Broncos, Ravens, Giants with the great pass rush).

But at the same time, Brady had a pretty awful showing against Baltimore, IIRC.


just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao
To be fair, 420, he was talking about going against tougher defenses, not the records of the teams faced.

IIRC, the Giants run this year was the toughest by SoS since the current playoff format was instituted.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 10:50 PM
lmfao, drew brees performance vs SF was gutsier than Eli's performance vs SF? thank you, you have proven your theory or opinion is flat wrong...

trent dilfer on NYG vs SF

"This game is the perfect example of when to throw the QB rating out the window. The way Eli stood in the pocket, getting hit TWENTY ONE TIMES, making passes where his platform (feet) is in such a difficult position, this was the absolute best, gutsiest performance a QB can show..."

Perhaps I used the wrong word when referring to Brees' performance. More dramatic maybe? Clutch. Very impressive, nonetheless.

Right, I typically agree with Trent Dilfer, and I agree with him here. I hinted at Eli's poise that game by commending the goose-egg under INTS on his stat sheet. I also mentioned that Eli made mistakes as well-- his mistakes just never came back to bite him or the Giants. But all QBs make mistakes.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 10:52 PM
last post including edit-

just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao

just to quash any argument ur going to make on the opponent record

denver-playing without Dawkins, and with Von Miller having one functional arm

Baltimore-Brady played poorly

Giants-awesome DL yes, but what was it, 30th ranked pass defense?



Atlanta-top 10 defense IIRC
GB-led NFL in takeaways
SF-top 3 D

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 10:53 PM
Has B&amp;R dislodged Aaron Rodgers tool from his throat yet?

Eli Manning being in the discussion as having a claim to being best QB is a legitimate. Discussion about Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers having a claim as best QB is also legitimate. I think Eli Manning is second in NFL to only Tom Brady right now and I stated that. I guess maytag clowns like B&amp;R have to start with insults because they don't like it when the debate goes away from their position. No biggie. Internet tough guys pull that nonsense all the time because it is all they have.

I actually think that Drew Brees was the third best QB this past postseason. What Tom Brady did to Denver Broncos and in the manner he did it was very special. He also played a great SuperBowl and almost pulled out the win. I would rate him as the second best QB of this past postseason and Eli Manning number one.

I really hope that everyone keeps under estimating Eli Manning some more because it is so much fun when he proves them wrong again and again.

That's a pretty good point you bring up about Brady being the 2nd best in the post season. Regardless of where I rank post season performances, I have to keep in mind that Brady had the toughest road in the playoffs, facing very tough defenses in every game (Broncos, Ravens, Giants with the great pass rush).

But at the same time, Brady had a pretty awful showing against Baltimore, IIRC.


just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao
To be fair, 420, he was talking about going against tougher defenses, not the records of the teams faced.

IIRC, the Giants run this year was the toughest by SoS since the current playoff format was instituted.


That's typically how this conversation has gone for much of this thread. I'll say something and he won't see it for what's actually written and I have misunderstood many of his posts as well.

No biggie, but you're correct Drez. I was commenting on the strength of defenses Brady faced in the playoffs.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 10:57 PM
last post including edit-

just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao

just to quash any argument ur going to make on the opponent record

denver-playing without Dawkins, and with Von Miller having one functional arm

Baltimore-Brady played poorly

Giants-awesome DL yes, but what was it, 30th ranked pass defense?



Atlanta-top 10 defense IIRC
GB-led NFL in takeaways
SF-top 3 D

I don't have to tell you about the Giants, you know plenty about them. But just to remind you, a pass rush is much more important to disrupting a quarterback than a strong secondary, and the Giants pass rush was the best in the league by years' end, largely in part to the defensive ends getting healthy and having solid rotation. Also Fewell stopped calling BS 3 man rushes on third and long. He went with what worked.

I think it's beyond evident that the Giants defense improved dramatically going into and during the playoffs.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 10:57 PM
Has B&R dislodged Aaron Rodgers tool from his throat yet?

Eli Manning being in the discussion as having a claim to being best QB is a legitimate. Discussion about Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers having a claim as best QB is also legitimate. I think Eli Manning is second in NFL to only Tom Brady right now and I stated that. I guess maytag clowns like B&R have to start with insults because they don't like it when the debate goes away from their position. No biggie. Internet tough guys pull that nonsense all the time because it is all they have.

I actually think that Drew Brees was the third best QB this past postseason. What Tom Brady did to Denver Broncos and in the manner he did it was very special. He also played a great SuperBowl and almost pulled out the win. I would rate him as the second best QB of this past postseason and Eli Manning number one.

I really hope that everyone keeps under estimating Eli Manning some more because it is so much fun when he proves them wrong again and again.

That's a pretty good point you bring up about Brady being the 2nd best in the post season. Regardless of where I rank post season performances, I have to keep in mind that Brady had the toughest road in the playoffs, facing very tough defenses in every game (Broncos, Ravens, Giants with the great pass rush).

But at the same time, Brady had a pretty awful showing against Baltimore, IIRC.


just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao
To be fair, 420, he was talking about going against tougher defenses, not the records of the teams faced.

IIRC, the Giants run this year was the toughest by SoS since the current playoff format was instituted.


That's typically how this conversation has gone for much of this thread. I'll say something and he won't see it for what's actually written and I have misunderstood many of his posts as well.

No biggie, but you're correct Drez. I was commenting on the strength of defenses Brady faced in the playoffs.


u'd still be incorrect tho. NY faced tougher defenses than NE faced, you could make the argument that both Brady and Eli played vs a top 3 D, Brady played poorly, Eli showcased one of the gutsiest, elite performances in Playoff history, every analyst was creaming their pants after the SF game talking about it was a throwback to classic football, smashmouth defenses, etc...

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 10:59 PM
last post including edit-

just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao

just to quash any argument ur going to make on the opponent record

denver-playing without Dawkins, and with Von Miller having one functional arm

Baltimore-Brady played poorly

Giants-awesome DL yes, but what was it, 30th ranked pass defense?



Atlanta-top 10 defense IIRC
GB-led NFL in takeaways
SF-top 3 D

I don't have to tell you about the Giants, you know plenty about them. But just to remind you, a pass rush is much more important to disrupting a quarterback than a strong secondary, and the Giants pass rush was the best in the league by years' end, largely in part to the defensive ends getting healthy and having solid rotation. Also Fewell stopped calling BS 3 man rushes on third and long. He went with what worked.

I think it's beyond evident that the Giants defense improved dramatically going into and during the playoffs.


SF has a better front 7 than the Giants tho, their pass rush was dominant all season as well.
then u factor in Atlantas top 10 defense, GB having the most takeaways, and BB having 2 weeks to create a gameplan...Giants had the more difficult path to the Lombardi, not to mention, the giants had to do it on the road...

Drez
04-10-2012, 11:01 PM
You're killing me, Nt. Do you really think that? Or are you just saying that to get a rise out of people?

I
mean, you seem to know your ****, so it's kind of shocking that you
think Brees had the best playoff performance this postseason. Even if
you're just referencing the individual games, it's definitely a stretch
to say that Brees had the better performance. He may have had a better
statline (viz. QBR), but Eli definitely had one of the best, gutsiest
performances in recent playoff history.

I won't get into the
"what-ifs" about if Eli got to play SF in the weather that Brees did or
vice versa, but I do think that variable should be taken into account
on some level. No QB is going to play as well in the rain and wind as
he will in good weather.




Brees had 466 yards passing in the first game and 462 yards passing the
2nd with 7 touchdowns-- both games against pretty tough defenses. The
weather may have been a factor, but it's so hard to account for what
the weather would have done.



For instance, the obvious effect of weather on Eli is that it may have
had a negative effect on Eli. But on the flip side, maybe the two balls
he threw right to the 49ers defenders would have been held on to. Or
maybe the 49ers pass rush would have been more effective with better
footing. Lots of variables to consider, but I'd rather not get into
what ifs. Let's just look at the 49ers game between the respective
quarterbacks.



The stats:

Brees: 40 of 63 (63%), 7.4 ypa, 2 ints, 3 touchdowns, 93.5 rtg.

Manning: 32 of 58 (55%) 5.4 ypa, 0 ints, 2 touchdowns, 82.5 rtg



I'd say the highlight of those stats would be the 0 ints that manning
threw. Obviously he made some mistakes, but the niners didn't
capitalize. Drew Brees had the gutsier performance that game IMO. Yes the 49ers stingy defense forced him into mistakes early on, but just as they didn't capitalize on the
Giants mistakes, the 9ers didn't really capitalize on the mistakes of
Brees and the Saints came charging back after being down 17-0. Then IIRC, retook
the lead twice in the final 3 and a half minutes. It took an absolutely
improbable meltdown from the Saints defense to lose that Game for Brees.



Of course, that's just one game and I can't in all honesty say that one
game is more impressive than a 4 game stretch. But I also don't fault
Brees for the Saints early playoff exit, and I was equally impressed
with his short stint in the playoffs in comparison with Eli, if not more.




Haha. How bad is it that I forgot that Brees played 2 games this postseason?

Even still, though Brees may have had a better statistical performance against the SF, all things considered (conditions, Eli getting beat on most of the game, etc), I think most would say that Eli played a great game, even a better game than Brees. Sure, it's debatable, but Eli definitely showed much more moxy than Brees. That is something that is not up for any kind of reasonable debate.

Edit: Brees and the Saints faced Detroit in the WC. I'd hardly consider that a tough defense, though.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 11:12 PM
last post including edit-

just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao

just to quash any argument ur going to make on the opponent record

denver-playing without Dawkins, and with Von Miller having one functional arm

Baltimore-Brady played poorly

Giants-awesome DL yes, but what was it, 30th ranked pass defense?



Atlanta-top 10 defense IIRC
GB-led NFL in takeaways
SF-top 3 D

I don't have to tell you about the Giants, you know plenty about them. But just to remind you, a pass rush is much more important to disrupting a quarterback than a strong secondary, and the Giants pass rush was the best in the league by years' end, largely in part to the defensive ends getting healthy and having solid rotation. Also Fewell stopped calling BS 3 man rushes on third and long. He went with what worked.

I think it's beyond evident that the Giants defense improved dramatically going into and during the playoffs.


SF has a better front 7 than the Giants tho, their pass rush was dominant all season as well.
then u factor in Atlantas top 10 defense, GB having the most takeaways, and BB having 2 weeks to create a gameplan...Giants had the more difficult path to the Lombardi, not to mention, the giants had to do it on the road...

I don't really disagree too much here. SF and BAL are pretty much a push and Eli played better against SF than Brady did BAL. Eli played well against Atlanta, but I've never really considered them a strong defensive team-- average pass rush with good corners, but overall bad pass defense. It's really surprising (and news) to me that they're a top 12 defense. But like you mentioned the Broncos weren't 100% on defense either so that's kind of a push as well.

But then I never said that Brady had a better post season than Eli this
year. Just made note of Buffy's point that Brady had a tough defensive
schedule.

But what about the Giants? All three teams Brady faced could be considered pretty good to great defenses, with his worst game coming against the best defense.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 11:16 PM
last post including edit-

just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao

just to quash any argument ur going to make on the opponent record

denver-playing without Dawkins, and with Von Miller having one functional arm

Baltimore-Brady played poorly

Giants-awesome DL yes, but what was it, 30th ranked pass defense?



Atlanta-top 10 defense IIRC
GB-led NFL in takeaways
SF-top 3 D

I don't have to tell you about the Giants, you know plenty about them. But just to remind you, a pass rush is much more important to disrupting a quarterback than a strong secondary, and the Giants pass rush was the best in the league by years' end, largely in part to the defensive ends getting healthy and having solid rotation. Also Fewell stopped calling BS 3 man rushes on third and long. He went with what worked.

I think it's beyond evident that the Giants defense improved dramatically going into and during the playoffs.


SF has a better front 7 than the Giants tho, their pass rush was dominant all season as well.
then u factor in Atlantas top 10 defense, GB having the most takeaways, and BB having 2 weeks to create a gameplan...Giants had the more difficult path to the Lombardi, not to mention, the giants had to do it on the road...

I think NO was stronger than GB so I would say the paths weren't that far apart in terms of difficulty. I thought ATL was a good match up for us despite their strong showing in the regular season.

I think our D line overall was better than SFs all year and in the playoffs, but their LBs were better than our LBS. If you go player by player I lean to SF but we are not too far off.

JMFP2
04-10-2012, 11:18 PM
You're killing me, Nt. Do you really think that? Or are you just saying that to get a rise out of people?

I mean, you seem to know your ****, so it's kind of shocking that you think Brees had the best playoff performance this postseason. Even if you're just referencing the individual games, it's definitely a stretch to say that Brees had the better performance. He may have had a better statline (viz. QBR), but Eli definitely had one of the best, gutsiest performances in recent playoff history.

I won't get into the "what-ifs" about if Eli got to play SF in the weather that Brees did or vice versa, but I do think that variable should be taken into account on some level. No QB is going to play as well in the rain and wind as he will in good weather.


Brees had 466 yards passing in the first game and 462 yards passing the 2nd with 7 touchdowns-- both games against pretty tough defenses. The weather may have been a factor, but it's so hard to account for what the weather would have done.

For instance, the obvious effect of weather on Eli is that it may have had a negative effect on Eli. But on the flip side, maybe the two balls he threw right to the 49ers defenders would have been held on to. Or maybe the 49ers pass rush would have been more effective with better footing. Lots of variables to consider, but I'd rather not get into what ifs. Let's just look at the 49ers game between the respective quarterbacks.

The stats:
Brees: 40 of 63 (63%), 7.4 ypa, 2 ints, 3 touchdowns, 93.5 rtg.
Manning: 32 of 58 (55%) 5.4 ypa, 0 ints, 2 touchdowns, 82.5 rtg

I'd say the highlight of those stats would be the 0 ints that manning threw. Obviously he made some mistakes, but the niners didn't capitalize. Drew Brees had the gutsier performance that game IMO. Yes the 49ers stingy defense forced him into mistakes early on, but just as they didn't capitalize on the Giants mistakes, the 9ers didn't really capitalize on the mistakes of Brees and the Saints came charging back after being down 17-0. Then IIRC, retook the lead twice in the final 3 and a half minutes. It took an absolutely improbable meltdown from the Saints defense to lose that Game for Brees.

Of course, that's just one game and I can't in all honesty say that one game is more impressive than a 4 game stretch. But I also don't fault Brees for the Saints early playoff exit, and I was equally impressed with his short stint in the playoffs in comparison with Eli, if not more.




Haha. How bad is it that I forgot that Brees played 2 games this postseason?

Even still, though Brees may have had a better statistical performance against the SF, all things considered (conditions, Eli getting beat on most of the game, etc), I think most would say that Eli played a great game, even a better game than Brees. Sure, it's debatable, but Eli definitely showed much more moxy than Brees. That is something that is not up for any kind of reasonable debate.

Edit: Brees and the Saints faced Detroit in the WC. I'd hardly consider that a tough defense, though.
</P>


Agreed.....playing Detroit in the Super Dome is like shooting fish in a barrel.</P>


And I love Ballard....but he's no Vernon Davis, Gronkowski, or Jimmy Graham, either.</P>


Brees is awesome, but he plays in a perfect conditions 80% of the year (8 home dome games, plus Atlanta's dome, plus Tampa and Carolina),behind the best offensive line in football. </P>


Eli was operating behind a makeshift line that couldn't run block worth a damn....and his defense was a hot mess for half the season, too. It was all on him for most of the year.</P>


As far asSFv. NY and SF v NO.......Eli played a better game than Brees... I just rewatched that game on DVR last night.....Eli was calm under fire.</P>


Brees had fat numbers, but he had no choice....he fell behind 17-0. It was a totally different game between the 49ers and the Giants.....by the 3rd quarter, you just KNEW it was coming down to one big play, or a big mistake. Eli held serve, under brutal pressure. The Giants won because their defense only gave up 2 big plays, Weatherford and the specials rocked, and Eli was clutch when he had to be.....that touchdown to Manningham was a brilliant play.</P>

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 11:20 PM
You're killing me, Nt. Do you really think that? Or are you just saying that to get a rise out of people?

I
mean, you seem to know your ****, so it's kind of shocking that you
think Brees had the best playoff performance this postseason. Even if
you're just referencing the individual games, it's definitely a stretch
to say that Brees had the better performance. He may have had a better
statline (viz. QBR), but Eli definitely had one of the best, gutsiest
performances in recent playoff history.

I won't get into the
"what-ifs" about if Eli got to play SF in the weather that Brees did or
vice versa, but I do think that variable should be taken into account
on some level. No QB is going to play as well in the rain and wind as
he will in good weather.




Brees had 466 yards passing in the first game and 462 yards passing the
2nd with 7 touchdowns-- both games against pretty tough defenses. The
weather may have been a factor, but it's so hard to account for what
the weather would have done.



For instance, the obvious effect of weather on Eli is that it may have
had a negative effect on Eli. But on the flip side, maybe the two balls
he threw right to the 49ers defenders would have been held on to. Or
maybe the 49ers pass rush would have been more effective with better
footing. Lots of variables to consider, but I'd rather not get into
what ifs. Let's just look at the 49ers game between the respective
quarterbacks.



The stats:

Brees: 40 of 63 (63%), 7.4 ypa, 2 ints, 3 touchdowns, 93.5 rtg.

Manning: 32 of 58 (55%) 5.4 ypa, 0 ints, 2 touchdowns, 82.5 rtg



I'd say the highlight of those stats would be the 0 ints that manning
threw. Obviously he made some mistakes, but the niners didn't
capitalize. Drew Brees had the gutsier performance that game IMO. Yes the 49ers stingy defense forced him into mistakes early on, but just as they didn't capitalize on the
Giants mistakes, the 9ers didn't really capitalize on the mistakes of
Brees and the Saints came charging back after being down 17-0. Then IIRC, retook
the lead twice in the final 3 and a half minutes. It took an absolutely
improbable meltdown from the Saints defense to lose that Game for Brees.



Of course, that's just one game and I can't in all honesty say that one
game is more impressive than a 4 game stretch. But I also don't fault
Brees for the Saints early playoff exit, and I was equally impressed
with his short stint in the playoffs in comparison with Eli, if not more.




Haha. How bad is it that I forgot that Brees played 2 games this postseason?

Even still, though Brees may have had a better statistical performance against the SF, all things considered (conditions, Eli getting beat on most of the game, etc), I think most would say that Eli played a great game, even a better game than Brees. Sure, it's debatable, but Eli definitely showed much more moxy than Brees. That is something that is not up for any kind of reasonable debate.

Edit: Brees and the Saints faced Detroit in the WC. I'd hardly consider that a tough defense, though.


I don't consider them a great defense either, but that's because they were vulnerable against the run all year long. Disrupting the QB and defending the pass on the other hand, they were pretty good at. In fact, they only trailed Baltimore in that regard (pretty much neck and neck with SF).

Of course Pierre Thomas was a factor in that game against the Lions, so I don't completely credit Brees.

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 11:24 PM
last post including edit-

just when i thought you couldnt make a more incorrect statement...

NE postseason opponents record-28-20

Giants postseason opponenst record- 41-13

Brady sure had it tough...lmfao

just to quash any argument ur going to make on the opponent record

denver-playing without Dawkins, and with Von Miller having one functional arm

Baltimore-Brady played poorly

Giants-awesome DL yes, but what was it, 30th ranked pass defense?



Atlanta-top 10 defense IIRC
GB-led NFL in takeaways
SF-top 3 D

I don't have to tell you about the Giants, you know plenty about them. But just to remind you, a pass rush is much more important to disrupting a quarterback than a strong secondary, and the Giants pass rush was the best in the league by years' end, largely in part to the defensive ends getting healthy and having solid rotation. Also Fewell stopped calling BS 3 man rushes on third and long. He went with what worked.

I think it's beyond evident that the Giants defense improved dramatically going into and during the playoffs.


I agree with this statement. NY Giants defense got healthy and improved dramatically toward the end of the year and in the playoffs.

Tom Brady had an excellent postseason and contrary to what the oddsmakers posted, NY Giants should have been favored in SuperBowl XLVI. By the time Superbowl XLVI came around, NY Giants defense was better than it was all year. They played a great game as did the New England Patriots defense. We were on the verge of making the game a blowout when we were up 9-0 but Tom Brady engineered three phenomenal drives and New England scored 17 straight points to take the lead. It seemed as if he almost willed New England back in that game. He played his heart out and had a great game.

A lot of folks talk about the throw and the catch to Mario Manningham on the last TD drive. What some folks don;t realize is how Eli Manning set that up. He threw to the other side on the drive before. He kept checking the safety over by looking the other way. He kept the safety from cheating toward Mario Manningham before that ball was even snapped. It was an exhibition of his genius on the field. He did these little things throughout the game. Now, anyone that has watched NY Giants games on a reguiar basis this year aren’t surprised because Eli Manning does this all the time. Folks that don’t watch NY Giants games don;t even realize it and just focus on the throw and catch.

New England Patriots defense played an inspired game and made some big plays. Bill Bellichek devised a great defensive gameplan for them.Eli Manning was able to adapt and win this game. I don’t think Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees would have been able to adjust and improvise the way Eli Manning did in SuperBowl XLVI.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 11:24 PM
I think NO was stronger than GB so I would say the paths weren't that far apart in terms of difficulty. I thought ATL was a good match up for us despite their strong showing in the regular season.

I think our D line overall was better than SFs all year and in the playoffs, but their LBs were better than our LBS. If you go player by player I lean to SF but we are not too far off.

New Orleans was a monster at the superdome by the time the post season rolled around. I'm not sure any team could have beaten them there, but we'll never know.

And I'd say that their defense was a big step up from the joke of a defense GB trotted on the field.

buffyblue
04-10-2012, 11:27 PM
Has B&R dislodged Aaron Rodgers tool from his throat yet?

Eli Manning being in the discussion as having a claim to being best QB is a legitimate. Discussion about Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers having a claim as best QB is also legitimate. I think Eli Manning is second in NFL to only Tom Brady right now and I stated that. I guess maytag clowns like B&R have to start with insults because they don't like it when the debate goes away from their position. No biggie. Internet tough guys pull that nonsense all the time because it is all they have.

I actually think that Drew Brees was the third best QB this past postseason. What Tom Brady did to Denver Broncos and in the manner he did it was very special. He also played a great SuperBowl and almost pulled out the win. I would rate him as the second best QB of this past postseason and Eli Manning number one.

I really hope that everyone keeps under estimating Eli Manning some more because it is so much fun when he proves them wrong again and again.

I've since apologized for the perceived slight yet you seem unable to let it go. Obviously my apology is a sign of me trying to be an 'internet tough guy'.

I don't see anything new in this post. I've already stated my views and seeing as redundancy is not my cup of tea I'll let it go.

Keep rooting foe the Giants we need all of our fans support, even ones with a huge chip on their shoulder.

Sugah britches, have you taken Aaron Rodgers’ tool out of your mouth yet?

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 11:32 PM
I think NO was stronger than GB so I would say the paths weren't that far apart in terms of difficulty. I thought ATL was a good match up for us despite their strong showing in the regular season.

I think our D line overall was better than SFs all year and in the playoffs, but their LBs were better than our LBS. If you go player by player I lean to SF but we are not too far off.

New Orleans was a monster at the superdome by the time the post season rolled around. I'm not sure any team could have beaten them there, but we'll never know.

And I'd say that their defense was a big step up from the joke of a defense GB trotted on the field.


the defense of a 15-1 team, who led the league in takeaways, at home where they were undefeated, is a joke of a defense?

they gave up a lot of yards yes, but thats bc they were ahead of virtually every game and opposing teams had to throw to try and make a game of it, which led to GB playing more of a "we'll give up yards but not TD's." GB also had a good points allowed per game avg...I'd actually say that the defense of GB was more difficult than Denver's especially when u factor in the injuries on Denvers side of the ball and that GB and NO defenses in that regard would be a push.

but it doesnt matter much, NE opponents record in the postseason 28-20, Giants 41-7 with a top 3 d (I believe SF actually had the top ranked defense IIRC) a top 10 D in Atlanta, the D that led the league in takeaways, and a BB defense that had 2 weeks to gameplan...

edit- which is why when you factor in how Eli fared against those D's makes me extremely confident and positive that Eli outplayed any QB in the postseason and it wasnt even close...

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 11:32 PM
You're killing me, Nt. Do you really think that? Or are you just saying that to get a rise out of people?

I mean, you seem to know your ****, so it's kind of shocking that you think Brees had the best playoff performance this postseason. Even if you're just referencing the individual games, it's definitely a stretch to say that Brees had the better performance. He may have had a better statline (viz. QBR), but Eli definitely had one of the best, gutsiest performances in recent playoff history.

I won't get into the "what-ifs" about if Eli got to play SF in the weather that Brees did or vice versa, but I do think that variable should be taken into account on some level. No QB is going to play as well in the rain and wind as he will in good weather.


Brees had 466 yards passing in the first game and 462 yards passing the 2nd with 7 touchdowns-- both games against pretty tough defenses. The weather may have been a factor, but it's so hard to account for what the weather would have done.

For instance, the obvious effect of weather on Eli is that it may have had a negative effect on Eli. But on the flip side, maybe the two balls he threw right to the 49ers defenders would have been held on to. Or maybe the 49ers pass rush would have been more effective with better footing. Lots of variables to consider, but I'd rather not get into what ifs. Let's just look at the 49ers game between the respective quarterbacks.

The stats:
Brees: 40 of 63 (63%), 7.4 ypa, 2 ints, 3 touchdowns, 93.5 rtg.
Manning: 32 of 58 (55%) 5.4 ypa, 0 ints, 2 touchdowns, 82.5 rtg

I'd say the highlight of those stats would be the 0 ints that manning threw. Obviously he made some mistakes, but the niners didn't capitalize. Drew Brees had the gutsier performance that game IMO. Yes the 49ers stingy defense forced him into mistakes early on, but just as they didn't capitalize on the Giants mistakes, the 9ers didn't really capitalize on the mistakes of Brees and the Saints came charging back after being down 17-0. Then IIRC, retook the lead twice in the final 3 and a half minutes. It took an absolutely improbable meltdown from the Saints defense to lose that Game for Brees.

Of course, that's just one game and I can't in all honesty say that one game is more impressive than a 4 game stretch. But I also don't fault Brees for the Saints early playoff exit, and I was equally impressed with his short stint in the playoffs in comparison with Eli, if not more.




Haha. How bad is it that I forgot that Brees played 2 games this postseason?

Even still, though Brees may have had a better statistical performance against the SF, all things considered (conditions, Eli getting beat on most of the game, etc), I think most would say that Eli played a great game, even a better game than Brees. Sure, it's debatable, but Eli definitely showed much more moxy than Brees. That is something that is not up for any kind of reasonable debate.

Edit: Brees and the Saints faced Detroit in the WC. I'd hardly consider that a tough defense, though.
</P>


Agreed.....playing Detroit in the Super Dome is like shooting fish in a barrel.</P>


And I love Ballard....but he's no Vernon Davis, Gronkowski, or Jimmy Graham, either.</P>


Brees is awesome, but he plays in a perfect conditions 80% of the year (8 home dome games, plus Atlanta's dome, plus Tampa and Carolina),*behind the best offensive line in football.* </P>


Eli was operating behind a makeshift line that couldn't run block worth a damn....and his defense was a hot mess for half the season, too.* It was all on him for most of the year.</P>


As far as*SF*v. NY and SF v NO.......Eli played a better game than Brees... I just rewatched that game on DVR last night.....Eli was calm under fire.***</P>


Brees had fat numbers, but he had no choice....he fell behind 17-0.*** It was a totally different game between the 49ers and the Giants.....by the 3rd quarter, you just KNEW it was coming down to one big play, or a big mistake.* Eli held serve, under brutal pressure.* The Giants won because their defense only gave up 2 big plays, Weatherford and the specials rocked, and Eli was clutch when he had to be.....that touchdown to Manningham was a brilliant play.</P>

Brees had great numbers all year long. Sean Payton likes a pass heavy offense even when he shown the ability to run. When Brees is on as he was when he played us it's pretty awesome to watch. Its the only team we played this year where I thought we weren't o their level. I mean I even felt good about the GB loss in the regular season b/c I knew we could play with them.

Drez
04-10-2012, 11:38 PM
Brees had great numbers all year long. Sean Payton likes a pass heavy offense even when he shown the ability to run. When Brees is on as he was when he played us it's pretty awesome to watch. Its the only team we played this year where I thought we weren't o their level. I mean I even felt good about the GB loss in the regular season b/c I knew we could play with them.

We just match up horribly with NO. I can't explain it, but they just have owned us as of late.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 11:44 PM
I think NO was stronger than GB so I would say the paths weren't that far apart in terms of difficulty. I thought ATL was a good match up for us despite their strong showing in the regular season.

I think our D line overall was better than SFs all year and in the playoffs, but their LBs were better than our LBS. If you go player by player I lean to SF but we are not too far off.

New Orleans was a monster at the superdome by the time the post season rolled around. I'm not sure any team could have beaten them there, but we'll never know.

And I'd say that their defense was a big step up from the joke of a defense GB trotted on the field.


the defense of a 15-1 team, who led the league in takeaways, at home where they were undefeated, is a joke of a defense?

they gave up a lot of yards yes, but thats bc they were ahead of virtually every game and opposing teams had to throw to try and make a game of it, which led to GB playing more of a "we'll give up yards but not TD's." GB also had a good points allowed per game avg...I'd actually say that the defense of GB was more difficult than Denver's especially when u factor in the injuries on Denvers side of the ball and that GB and NO defenses in that regard would be a push.

but it doesnt matter much, NE opponents record in the postseason 28-20, Giants 41-7 with a top 3 d (I believe SF actually had the top ranked defense IIRC) a top 10 D in Atlanta, the D that led the league in takeaways, and a BB defense that had 2 weeks to gameplan...

edit- which is why when you factor in how Eli fared against those D's makes me extremely confident and positive that Eli outplayed any QB in the postseason and it wasnt even close...

GB and the NO are similar in their defensive play in that they are far better at getting takeaways then they are at getting stops.

GN defense was a joke all year and for their one playoff loss. Yet I attribute their loss more to the 3 turnovers than anything else.

Pats defense was equally as bad during the regular season. If they hadn't of improved their performance during the playoffs they would've certainly been watching from the SB from the sidelines. I think what helped NE best of all is that is that they faced a Tebow led Denver offense running the option and a Raven offense that was not a power house passing attack; even though they should have won the game. We were the first legitimate prolific passing offense they faced in the playoffs and they didn't play that bad. I for one thought we would blow them out of the water.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 11:52 PM
Brees had great numbers all year long. Sean Payton likes a pass heavy offense even when he shown the ability to run. When Brees is on as he was when he played us it's pretty awesome to watch. Its the only team we played this year where I thought we weren't o their level. I mean I even felt good about the GB loss in the regular season b/c I knew we could play with them.

We just match up horribly with NO. I can't explain it, but they just have owned us as of late.


It seem like C-Web, for whatever reason, has trouble with M. Colston and we just have no answer for Graham ( nobody in the league does though). It's kind of strange because C-Web shuts down Desean Jackson 9 times out of 10 and usually plays well versus big name receivers.

Last 3 games have been bad, like blow out city. Their the reason I want us to improve instead of being happy with the status quo because I don't think it will be enough if we see them in the playoffs.

giantsfan420
04-11-2012, 12:47 AM
Brees had great numbers all year long. Sean Payton likes a pass heavy offense even when he shown the ability to run. When Brees is on as he was when he played us it's pretty awesome to watch. Its the only team we played this year where I thought we weren't o their level. I mean I even felt good about the GB loss in the regular season b/c I knew we could play with them.

We just match up horribly with NO. I can't explain it, but they just have owned us as of late.


It seem like C-Web, for whatever reason, has trouble with M. Colston and we just have no answer for Graham ( nobody in the league does though). It's kind of strange because C-Web shuts down Desean Jackson 9 times out of 10 and usually plays well versus big name receivers.

Last 3 games have been bad, like blow out city. Their the reason I want us to improve instead of being happy with the status quo because I don't think it will be enough if we see them in the playoffs.

colston primarily plays out of the slot to challenge the seems and safeties where his size and speed gives him a huge advantage. webster probably covered Colston for 10% of the game...

gmen0820
04-11-2012, 01:09 AM
colston primarily plays out of the slot to challenge the seems and safeties where his size and speed gives him a huge advantage. webster probably covered Colston for 10% of the game...While this is mostly true, Colston did have all of his production vs Webster.

giantsfan420
04-11-2012, 01:13 AM
colston primarily plays out of the slot to challenge the seems and safeties where his size and speed gives him a huge advantage. webster probably covered Colston for 10% of the game...While this is mostly true, Colston did have all of his production vs Webster.

i dont know about that. he had that huge catch and run out of the slot on an out route, grant or rolle was covering him i believe. he def. had production on webster, but i doubt all or even most of it...

gmen0820
04-11-2012, 01:22 AM
colston primarily plays out of the slot to challenge the seems and safeties where his size and speed gives him a huge advantage. webster probably covered Colston for 10% of the game...While this is mostly true, Colston did have all of his production vs Webster.

i dont know about that. he had that huge catch and run out of the slot on an out route, grant or rolle was covering him i believe. he def. had production on webster, but i doubt all or even most of it...I'm gonna have to go back and check that, pretty sure every one of Colston's 3 catches were vs. Webster.

Unfortunately I cancelled my Rewind subscription a week ago.

Neverend
04-11-2012, 01:34 AM
Think colston had one big catch against webster and the other two were just zone coverages with webster making the tackle. could be wrong tho

giantsfan420
04-11-2012, 02:01 AM
colston primarily plays out of the slot to challenge the seems and safeties where his size and speed gives him a huge advantage. webster probably covered Colston for 10% of the game...While this is mostly true, Colston did have all of his production vs Webster.

i dont know about that. he had that huge catch and run out of the slot on an out route, grant or rolle was covering him i believe. he def. had production on webster, but i doubt all or even most of it...I'm gonna have to go back and check that, pretty sure every one of Colston's 3 catches were vs. Webster.

Unfortunately I cancelled my Rewind subscription a week ago.

i'm 99% positive that huge catch and run he had was out of the slot and either had a LB/S covering him...99.9% positive

buffyblue
04-11-2012, 03:02 PM
It seems our defense just doesn't show up against New Orleans Saints.

burier
04-11-2012, 04:16 PM
It seems our defense just doesn't show up against New Orleans Saints.

our defense didn't show up very often during the regular season.

Kevin Kolb looked great.

Whoever was QBing the Dolphins looked great.

Tavaris Jackson??? Yeah he looked great against us.

I think Eli had to complete like 20 passes in a row to get us a win against the Rams.

Shady McCoy was made to look like Barry Sanders.

Could not control Romo in either game.

Could not control Breese

Could not control Rogers.

but apprently we're stacked on defense and should sell the farm to resign Chase Blackburn.

B&RWarrior
04-11-2012, 04:20 PM
Brees had great numbers all year long. Sean Payton likes a pass heavy offense even when he shown the ability to run. When Brees is on as he was when he played us it's pretty awesome to watch. Its the only team we played this year where I thought we weren't o their level. I mean I even felt good about the GB loss in the regular season b/c I knew we could play with them.

We just match up horribly with NO. I can't explain it, but they just have owned us as of late.


It seem like C-Web, for whatever reason, has trouble with M. Colston and we just have no answer for Graham ( nobody in the league does though). It's kind of strange because C-Web shuts down Desean Jackson 9 times out of 10 and usually plays well versus big name receivers.

Last 3 games have been bad, like blow out city. Their the reason I want us to improve instead of being happy with the status quo because I don't think it will be enough if we see them in the playoffs.

colston primarily plays out of the slot to challenge the seems and safeties where his size and speed gives him a huge advantage. webster probably covered Colston for 10% of the game...

In the past 3 games Webster has had bad games against the NO. Not sure about the percentage of plays he covered Colston in the last game but C-Web was been worked by Colston for the past 3 games. I don't want to single him out its just that I don't go in to any game thinking C-Web will get burnt. So, his performance is kind of shocking.

buffyblue
04-12-2012, 08:24 AM
It seems our defense just doesn't show up against New Orleans Saints.

our defense didn't show up very often during the regular season.

Kevin Kolb looked great.

Whoever was QBing the Dolphins looked great.

Tavaris Jackson??? Yeah he looked great against us.

I think Eli had to complete like 20 passes in a row to get us a win against the Rams.

Shady McCoy was made to look like Barry Sanders.

Could not control Romo in either game.

Could not control Breese

Could not control Rogers.

but apprently we're stacked on defense and should sell the farm to resign Chase Blackburn.

Defense was weak most of the regular season. They showed up in playoffs but there are still a bunch oh holes to fill this offseason.

Flip Empty
04-12-2012, 11:28 AM
It seems our defense just doesn't show up against New Orleans Saints.

our defense didn't show up very often during the regular season.

Kevin Kolb looked great.

Whoever was QBing the Dolphins looked great.

Tavaris Jackson??? Yeah he looked great against us.

I think Eli had to complete like 20 passes in a row to get us a win against the Rams.

Shady McCoy was made to look like Barry Sanders.

Could not control Romo in either game.

Could not control Breese

Could not control Rogers.
Because that squad was 100% healthy, huh.

GmenFan1980
04-12-2012, 11:35 AM
It seems our defense just doesn't show up against New Orleans Saints.

our defense didn't show up very often during the regular season.

Kevin Kolb looked great.

Whoever was QBing the Dolphins looked great.

Tavaris Jackson??? Yeah he looked great against us.

I think Eli had to complete like 20 passes in a row to get us a win against the Rams.

Shady McCoy was made to look like Barry Sanders.

Could not control Romo in either game.

Could not control Breese

Could not control Rogers.

but apprently we're stacked on defense and should sell the farm to resign Chase Blackburn.

1. Kolb was terrible against us

2. Moore is a decent QB

3. agreed

4. Or the defensive touchdown could have helped

5. not really, no.

6. we most certainly did control Romo in the second game

7 & 8 agreed

Your pretty negative. whatever, enjoy your day

rick5292
04-12-2012, 12:24 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Eli Manning

Flip Empty
04-12-2012, 12:28 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Eli Manning
Yeah, that's about the same for me. It's hard to judge Peyton after a missed year and a sub-par year though.

Joe Morrison
04-12-2012, 06:52 PM
Just give Chase a Chance!

buffyblue
04-12-2012, 06:58 PM
It seems our defense just doesn't show up against New Orleans Saints.

our defense didn't show up very often during the regular season.

Kevin Kolb looked great.

Whoever was QBing the Dolphins looked great.

Tavaris Jackson??? Yeah he looked great against us.

I think Eli had to complete like 20 passes in a row to get us a win against the Rams.

Shady McCoy was made to look like Barry Sanders.

Could not control Romo in either game.

Could not control Breese

Could not control Rogers.
Because that squad was 100% healthy, huh.

Part of the reason was the health of the squad, i have stated that before. However, there are still holes to fill on defense. It would appear that Jerry Reese is on it this offseason however.

nygfanmaybe
04-29-2012, 09:02 AM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Eli Manning

2007...1 plays 5. 5 wins.

2011...1 plays 5. 5 wins.

Must be luck.

Diamondring
04-29-2012, 09:26 AM
A bit shocked to see Eli at number 1 but it is nice to see him get the recognition he deserves.

He is the best QB in the game i believe.

Roethlisberger over Brees and Rodgers is laughable though.I wonder why? It is not laughable this year though wich they are talking about so sorry your post is wrong wrong wrong.

Flip Empty
04-29-2012, 09:33 AM
Gah, not this thread again. Agree to disagree.

Toadofsteel
04-29-2012, 10:59 AM
Eli deserves it for one specific reason: Sure Brady or Rodgers can produce more, but Eli doesn't get rattled by sacks. He's made of nintendium (that indestructble stuff that nintendo products are made out of), and the NFCCG proved that. He might be the one QB in the league that a pass rush WON'T work against, and that's why he's the best.

Harooni
04-30-2012, 05:20 AM
I disagree I am with Kurt Warner on this one, Lets see a league MVP.

rainierjef
04-30-2012, 05:55 AM
is this rating based on career achievements or 2011 achievements? whats the criteria for best QB in the league?

THE_New_York_Giants
04-30-2012, 11:41 AM
The best QB in the world right now is easily Anthony Cavillo.

NoHuddle10
04-30-2012, 01:45 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Eli Manning

2007...1 plays 5. 5 wins.

2011...1 plays 5. 5 wins.

Must be luck.

2011.. 4 plays 5. 5 wins.


2011.. 2 doesnt even play a game, 5 wins super bowl.


Judging by right now only, 5 is 1.

TheEnigma
04-30-2012, 02:29 PM
Skip Bayless says Eli is best QB in the NFL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0/)

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 02:41 PM
Skip Bayless says Eli is best QB in the NFL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0/)

damn u lol

gmen0820
05-28-2012, 10:00 PM
i'm 99% positive that huge catch and run he had was out of the slot and either had a LB/S covering him...99.9% positiveA little delayed, but I re-upped my Rewind subscription. This is what I got from that long play.

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i390/bschujasnyg/j-tiff.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i390/bschujasnyg/h-tiff.jpg

Colston with Webster to the strong side of the 2x2 set. Single high look, man across the board (explaining the long YAC).

Drez
05-28-2012, 10:05 PM
I was wondering why you necro-posted this thread when I saw you were the last reply, but makes sense now, lol.

gmen0820
05-28-2012, 10:06 PM
I was wondering why you necro-posted this thread when I saw you were the last reply, but makes sense now, lol.
I figured it'd cause a little bit of head scratching at first glance haha

giantsfan420
05-28-2012, 10:40 PM
i'm 99% positive that huge catch and run he had was out of the slot and either had a LB/S covering him...99.9% positiveA little delayed, but I re-upped my Rewind subscription. This is what I got from that long play.

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i390/bschujasnyg/j-tiff.jpg

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i390/bschujasnyg/h-tiff.jpg

Colston with Webster to the strong side of the 2x2 set. Single high look, man across the board (explaining the long YAC).

Rewind covers the pas few yrs right? If it does, could u goto the giants at philly game in 2010? The sunday night football telecast displayed an image of avg time the qb had to throw and vick had like 3.5 seconds where as eli had under two seconds. Slip told me i was wrong or lying or something. Ive always wanted to prove that nbc did display that so if u can look for that somewhat early in the game. That is if u even care to do this wouldnt blame ya if u didnt

gmen0820
05-28-2012, 10:45 PM
I should actually take a look at those two Philly games. I had a whole notes thread prior to this year with everything I had gathered from the 2010 season, for 14/16 games.

Those two Eagle games, I just couldn't rewatch them haha.

giantsfan420
05-28-2012, 10:54 PM
I should actually take a look at those two Philly games. I had a whole notes thread prior to this year with everything I had gathered from the 2010 season, for 14/16 games.

Those two Eagle games, I just couldn't rewatch them haha.

Haha cant blame ya. The "fumble" game was brutal...but yeah itd b interesting to read ur take on rewatching those games.

If u do. Sometime early in the game or possibly early in the second half, i know it was displayed at one point for a fact, the telecast displayed this stat box where it listed the qbs with quickest avg release time/time allowed to throw and eli/peyton were one and two, and vick was like the qb w most time. Eli iirc had 1.5 ish and vick 3.0ish...i looked online for it but all i could find was something similar but for the yr earlier iirc but the numbers were virtually the same anyways.slip cojldnt believe it and said i was lying unless i could post the stat or image lol i wouldnt even know how to post the image...but yeah rant over

gmen0820
05-28-2012, 11:49 PM
I watched the Giants defensive snaps, and it wasn't on there, but it could have been when the Giants were on offense.

Really sad loss. That McCoy pitch was the only reason we lost that game, undisciplined gap assignments.

Off man, and off zone coverage essentially the whole entire game, very rarely did we press. As usual, a 6/7-9 DL that would shrink vs 22 personnel. The Eagles used the shotgun draw to McCoy to keep the D honest, Giants played very aggressive, but they didn't over pursue the draw plays.

Off man coverage + DL pressure was lethal vs Vick. Our Cover 2 was only successful in 2 deep shells, not disguise concepts (CB/S invert). When the two inverted, there was a blatant weakness vs the 8, and 7 route. 2 level/delay blitzes made Vick force a lot of throws, it looked like he started anticipating pressure.

Some things that really stood out:
-T2 is a DB that plays like a DE. Can't wait to have him back to give that secondary some added ego/toughness.

-JPP got so much stronger, if he can make the gains from year 1 - year 2, in year 2 - year 3, then he will be the most dominant end I've ever seen.

Neverend
05-29-2012, 12:43 AM
I watched the Giants defensive snaps, and it wasn't on there, but it could have been when the Giants were on offense.

Really sad loss. That McCoy pitch was the only reason we lost that game, undisciplined gap assignments.

Off man, and off zone coverage essentially the whole entire game, very rarely did we press. As usual, a 6/7-9 DL that would shrink vs 22 personnel. The Eagles used the shotgun draw to McCoy to keep the D honest, Giants played very aggressive, but they didn't over pursue the draw plays.

Off man coverage + DL pressure was lethal vs Vick. Our Cover 2 was only successful in 2 deep shells, not disguise concepts (CB/S invert). When the two inverted, there was a blatant weakness vs the 8, and 7 route. 2 level/delay blitzes made Vick force a lot of throws, it looked like he started anticipating pressure.

Some things that really stood out:
-T2 is a DB that plays like a DE. Can't wait to have him back to give that secondary some added ego/toughness.

-JPP got so much stronger, if he can make the gains from year 1 - year 2, in year 2 - year 3, then he will be the most dominant end I've ever seen.

I remember that game well. Boley had a very poor game, I think he might've actually been responsible for all of the eagles touchdowns and that big mccoy run @ the end of the night when it was still a 1-possession game for the giants. overall tho they played oustanding run defense.

I know the second eagles game is always remembered for the comeback but I think some of those cover 0 looks against maclin/desean was incredibly successful. Good adjustment from those cushions

Neverend
05-29-2012, 12:45 AM
Rewind covers the pas few yrs right? If it does, could u goto the giants at philly game in 2010? The sunday night football telecast displayed an image of avg time the qb had to throw and vick had like 3.5 seconds where as eli had under two seconds. Slip told me i was wrong or lying or something. Ive always wanted to prove that nbc did display that so if u can look for that somewhat early in the game. That is if u even care to do this wouldnt blame ya if u didnt

I'm not sure about the eli 2 seconds thing, but I can say with 100% certainty you're right about nbc showing some stuff about vick had all day to throw in the pocket with the number of seconds he had. as bad as phillys oline has been that year, they did a great job blocking against the giants 4-man rush in that game (didnt help the eagles max protected in that game tho)

giantsfan420
05-29-2012, 12:54 AM
Rewind covers the pas few yrs right? If it does, could u goto the giants at philly game in 2010? The sunday night football telecast displayed an image of avg time the qb had to throw and vick had like 3.5 seconds where as eli had under two seconds. Slip told me i was wrong or lying or something. Ive always wanted to prove that nbc did display that so if u can look for that somewhat early in the game. That is if u even care to do this wouldnt blame ya if u didnt

I'm not sure about the eli 2 seconds thing, but I can say with 100% certainty you're right about nbc showing some stuff about vick had all day to throw in the pocket with the number of seconds he had. as bad as phillys oline has been that year, they did a great job blocking against the giants 4-man rush in that game (didnt help the eagles max protected in that game tho)

I just vividly still to this day know for 100% that nbc displayed a box on the bottom left or middle of the screen and they listed the qbs who got rid of it the quickest/had the least amiunt of time to throw. Eli and peyton got rid of the ball quicker than any other qb and vick had like twice the time they did...i looked online for it but could only find another football sites own research which matched the nbc info pretty closely...it would prob take a close eye to catch it it would prob be easy to miss

giantsfan420
05-29-2012, 01:03 AM
I watched the Giants defensive snaps, and it wasn't on there, but it could have been when the Giants were on offense.

Really sad loss. That McCoy pitch was the only reason we lost that game, undisciplined gap assignments.

Off man, and off zone coverage essentially the whole entire game, very rarely did we press. As usual, a 6/7-9 DL that would shrink vs 22 personnel. The Eagles used the shotgun draw to McCoy to keep the D honest, Giants played very aggressive, but they didn't over pursue the draw plays.

Off man coverage + DL pressure was lethal vs Vick. Our Cover 2 was only successful in 2 deep shells, not disguise concepts (CB/S invert). When the two inverted, there was a blatant weakness vs the 8, and 7 route. 2 level/delay blitzes made Vick force a lot of throws, it looked like he started anticipating pressure.

Some things that really stood out:
-T2 is a DB that plays like a DE. Can't wait to have him back to give that secondary some added ego/toughness.

-JPP got so much stronger, if he can make the gains from year 1 - year 2, in year 2 - year 3, then he will be the most dominant end I've ever seen.

I remember that game well. Boley had a very poor game, I think he might've actually been responsible for all of the eagles touchdowns and that big mccoy run @ the end of the night when it was still a 1-possession game for the giants. overall tho they played oustanding run defense.

I know the second eagles game is always remembered for the comeback but I think some of those cover 0 looks against maclin/desean was incredibly successful. Good adjustment from those cushions

That big toss play by mccoy at the end was bc of rolle playing the wrong gap iirc. Osi just missed deflecting the pitch by an inch...

We played so poorly that game i was kinda shocked we were in it and should have actually won. We fielded some wr off the street tho hagan and maybe another one. That game the qb and wrs were not on the same page iirc.

But that game oddly enough reboosted my confidence vs philly bc when we play to our talent and minimize stupid freak mistakes, we win (asenine statement i know) but that game showed me even if we play badly we still give ourselves chances to win. Think about some of our recent losses to philly...we played ****ty yet the games were still neck and neck...

That loss was brutal tho, i am one of the biggest eli homers and that fumble even had me shaking my head

gmen0820
05-29-2012, 01:36 AM
Exactly Neverend. Another big thing, Webster was predominately aligned vs. Jackson the second time around.

Funny you mention Boley though, if JPP hadn't jumped inside, than that pitch doesn't happen, and Boley has an excellent pressure. Unfortunate turn of events.

Oh and as for Goff, very unnatural in his C2 drops. Vick isn't known as a savvy QB, he was able to manipulate Goff with his eyes on a couple of occasions. One was a 3rd and long, the drive should have never even happened.

Drez
05-29-2012, 01:37 AM
Rewind covers the pas few yrs right? If it does, could u goto the giants at philly game in 2010? The sunday night football telecast displayed an image of avg time the qb had to throw and vick had like 3.5 seconds where as eli had under two seconds. Slip told me i was wrong or lying or something. Ive always wanted to prove that nbc did display that so if u can look for that somewhat early in the game. That is if u even care to do this wouldnt blame ya if u didnt

I'm not sure about the eli 2 seconds thing, but I can say with 100% certainty you're right about nbc showing some stuff about vick had all day to throw in the pocket with the number of seconds he had. as bad as phillys oline has been that year, they did a great job blocking against the giants 4-man rush in that game (didnt help the eagles max protected in that game tho)

I just vividly still to this day know for 100% that nbc displayed a box on the bottom left or middle of the screen and they listed the qbs who got rid of it the quickest/had the least amiunt of time to throw. Eli and peyton got rid of the ball quicker than any other qb and vick had like twice the time they did...i looked online for it but could only find another football sites own research which matched the nbc info pretty closely...it would prob take a close eye to catch it it would prob be easy to miss
I remember what you're talking about. However, I don't think it had even a little to do with release time, per se. It had to do with how quickly the QBs were pressured and had to unload the ball.

gmen0820
05-29-2012, 01:44 AM
Oh, and there aren't many 43 ends I'd take over a healthy Tuck. Peppers, Cole, (JPP), Suggs are really the only ones.

Drez
05-29-2012, 02:04 AM
Oh, and there aren't many 43 ends I'd take over a healthy Tuck. Peppers, Cole, (JPP), Suggs are really the only ones.
Tuck is definitely a complete end. Excellent pass rusher, stout against the run, can move him inside, and he can even drop into coverage a bit.

giantsfan420
05-29-2012, 04:58 AM
Rewind covers the pas few yrs right? If it does, could u goto the giants at philly game in 2010? The sunday night football telecast displayed an image of avg time the qb had to throw and vick had like 3.5 seconds where as eli had under two seconds. Slip told me i was wrong or lying or something. Ive always wanted to prove that nbc did display that so if u can look for that somewhat early in the game. That is if u even care to do this wouldnt blame ya if u didnt

I'm not sure about the eli 2 seconds thing, but I can say with 100% certainty you're right about nbc showing some stuff about vick had all day to throw in the pocket with the number of seconds he had. as bad as phillys oline has been that year, they did a great job blocking against the giants 4-man rush in that game (didnt help the eagles max protected in that game tho)

I just vividly still to this day know for 100% that nbc displayed a box on the bottom left or middle of the screen and they listed the qbs who got rid of it the quickest/had the least amiunt of time to throw. Eli and peyton got rid of the ball quicker than any other qb and vick had like twice the time they did...i looked online for it but could only find another football sites own research which matched the nbc info pretty closely...it would prob take a close eye to catch it it would prob be easy to miss
I remember what you're talking about. However, I don't think it had even a little to do with release time, per se. It had to do with how quickly the QBs were pressured and had to unload the ball.


Yeah i didnt know whether it was release time or if it was time given by ol...either way the qb who has to get rid of it quicker technically has a qjicker release unless that is u can break down the actual motion and record that without any bearing to the time given by the ol....

Either way im relieved someone else remembers it

chasjay
05-29-2012, 07:18 AM
Rewind covers the pas few yrs right? If it does, could u goto the giants at philly game in 2010? The sunday night football telecast displayed an image of avg time the qb had to throw and vick had like 3.5 seconds where as eli had under two seconds. Slip told me i was wrong or lying or something. Ive always wanted to prove that nbc did display that so if u can look for that somewhat early in the game. That is if u even care to do this wouldnt blame ya if u didnt

I'm not sure about the eli 2 seconds thing, but I can say with 100% certainty you're right about nbc showing some stuff about vick had all day to throw in the pocket with the number of seconds he had. as bad as phillys oline has been that year, they did a great job blocking against the giants 4-man rush in that game (didnt help the eagles max protected in that game tho)

I just vividly still to this day know for 100% that nbc displayed a box on the bottom left or middle of the screen and they listed the qbs who got rid of it the quickest/had the least amiunt of time to throw. Eli and peyton got rid of the ball quicker than any other qb and vick had like twice the time they did...i looked online for it but could only find another football sites own research which matched the nbc info pretty closely...it would prob take a close eye to catch it it would prob be easy to miss
I remember what you're talking about. However, I don't think it had even a little to do with release time, per se. It had to do with how quickly the QBs were pressured and had to unload the ball.


Yeah i didnt know whether it was release time or if it was time given by ol...either way the qb who has to get rid of it quicker technically has a qjicker release unless that is u can break down the actual motion and record that without any bearing to the time given by the ol....

Either way im relieved someone else remembers it

I have a vague memory of that graphic - but I don't remember if it was referring to the quality of the O Line blocking or if it was about the ability of the QB to make reads quickly and get the ball out