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JMFP2
04-05-2012, 04:21 PM
http://boards.philadelphiaeagles.com/topic/640456-according-to-this-article-the-1-qb-in-the-nfl-is/</P>


</P>


</P>


Direct link here....</P>


<FONT color=#980001>http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8281b796/article/quarterback-rankings-eli-manning-tops-list-heading-into-2012?module=HP11_content_stream</FONT> (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8281b796/article/quarterback-rankings-eli-manning-tops-list-heading-into-2012?module=HP11_content_stream) </P>

TheBookOfEli
04-05-2012, 04:26 PM
A bit shocked to see Eli at number 1 but it is nice to see him get the recognition he deserves.

He is the best QB in the game i believe.

Roethlisberger over Brees and Rodgers is laughable though.

jjj45
04-05-2012, 04:31 PM
the rankings should be:

1. Eli
2. Brees
4. Rodgers
5. Brady
etc....

I agree with having Eli as #1. Hes on top of the world right now. All the other QB's made big mistakes down the stretch. Brees throwing all those picks in SF. Rodgers looking terrible against us. Brady missing a wide open Welker that would win them the game.

Eli was marvelous all year and when it counted most: In the playoffs. He never faltered.

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 04:34 PM
Here is the direct link in case people don't want to go to the EMB for the information.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8281b796/article/quarterback-rankings-eli-manning-tops-list-heading-into-2012?module=HP11_content_stream



I just know that Eagles fans like to keep up on the latest Eli Manning news.

BlueJayC
04-05-2012, 04:35 PM
And the best matchup of the year is.... </P>


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8280de4f/article/top-12-games-to-look-forward-to-in-2012-campaign</P>


Can't believe the Pack game didn't make the list.</P>


(NFL.com link to QB article -http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8281b796/article/quarterback-rankings-eli-manning-tops-list-heading-into-2012)</P>

jjj45
04-05-2012, 04:35 PM
Here is the direct link in case people don't want to go to the EMB for the information.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8281b796/article/quarterback-rankings-eli-manning-tops-list-heading-into-2012?module=HP11_content_stream



I just know that Eagles fans like to keep up on the latest Eli Manning news.Im convinced the Giant fans over their hate Eli more than the Eagles fans.

TheBookOfEli
04-05-2012, 04:37 PM
I would have my top as

1. Eli Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Drew Brees
5. Peyton Manning

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 04:39 PM
Here is the direct link in case people don't want to go to the EMB for the information.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8281b796/article/quarterback-rankings-eli-manning-tops-list-heading-into-2012?module=HP11_content_stream



I just know that Eagles fans like to keep up on the latest Eli Manning news.Im convinced the Giant fans over their hate Eli more than the Eagles fans.


The Eagles homers despise Eli..... the more educated Eagles fans hate him, but respect what he's done.

burier
04-05-2012, 04:40 PM
lol..

Totally called this.

Marvelousmik
04-05-2012, 04:45 PM
I would have my top as

1. Eli Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Drew Brees
5. Peyton Manning

+1

Roosevelt
04-05-2012, 05:08 PM
He deserves that ranking after the season he had.

Rudyy
04-05-2012, 05:11 PM
I am actually quite shocked that someone like Rodgers or Brees isn't number one considering the records they've broken this year.

Records are great, but it's the championships that truly matter.

VegasGmen
04-05-2012, 05:15 PM
I would have my top as 1. Eli Manning 2. Tom Brady 3. Aaron Rodgers 4. Drew Brees 5. Peyton Manning</P>


Sounds right to me!</P>

slipknottin
04-05-2012, 05:17 PM
I thought it was Flacco?

titwio
04-05-2012, 05:30 PM
I agree with the poster...It's definitely Blaine Gabbert. I mean...obviously top 5.

B&RWarrior
04-05-2012, 08:01 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

TuckYou
04-05-2012, 08:26 PM
I love it. He is either not in the top 100 or is the #1. Id say he is in between. I think he was probably the 4th best in the league last sesaon, behind Rodgers, Brees and Brady. Possible Matt Stafford, but Eli's clutchness gene put him above Stafford, even though Stafford had a RIDICULOUS season with only Megatron to throw to.

Flip Empty
04-05-2012, 08:49 PM
It's hard to tell what criteria they're using. If it's stats, then why is Eli #1, and if it's championships, then what are Vick, Ryan and Rivers doing in there?

Awful list.

Ntegrase96
04-05-2012, 09:55 PM
It's hard to tell what criteria they're using. If it's stats, then why is Eli #1, and if it's championships, then what are Vick, Ryan and Rivers doing in there?

Awful list.

My sentiments exactly. Awful list.

GmenFan1980
04-05-2012, 10:04 PM
It's hard to tell what criteria they're using. If it's stats, then why is Eli #1, and if it's championships, then what are Vick, Ryan and Rivers doing in there?

Awful list.

My sentiments exactly. Awful list.




I think it's just the guys opinion(Although Not a very intelligent one)

Ben over Brees? two unproven Rookies over starters? Newton one year over Stafford?

It's why I don't care for these silly list

chasjay
04-05-2012, 10:07 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

is that a good thing or a bad thing?

slipknottin
04-05-2012, 10:07 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

Can you put Brady ahead of Eli? Considering Eli has beat him twice in the superbowl?

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 10:09 PM
#1 Eli Manning"...A 30-touchdown/4,000-yard passer with two Super Bowls in the past five years. Both won with last-minute drives -- and both over Tom Brady. Give me a better recent résumé. You can't....."</P>


Honestly, it's a solid argument.</P>


I can understand if people think Brees or Rodgers should be ranked higher....but Brees **** the bed against the 49ers, and Rodgers **** the bed against the Giants.</P>


In short, Eli's performance has put him in the "Who is #1" debate.</P>


</P>

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 10:10 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</P>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</P>

B&RWarrior
04-05-2012, 10:13 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

Can you put Brady ahead of Eli? Considering Eli has beat him twice in the superbowl?

Looking at their entire careers- yes. Looking at just last year- yes. Just a simple eye test w/o looking at the stats it's obvious to me Brady over Eli.

The NYGs beat the Pats twice. Eli didn't beat Brady ever. IMO he didn't even outplay him in the SB. Brady was a dropped pass from being the SB MVP.

Drez
04-05-2012, 10:18 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

Can you put Brady ahead of Eli? Considering Eli has beat him twice in the superbowl?

Looking at their entire careers- yes. Looking at just last year- yes. Just a simple eye test w/o looking at the stats it's obvious to me Brady over Eli.

The NYGs beat the Pats twice. Eli didn't beat Brady ever. IMO he didn't even outplay him in the SB. Brady was a dropped pass from being the SB MVP.
Dumbest argument of the night.

GmenFan1980
04-05-2012, 10:20 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

Can you put Brady ahead of Eli? Considering Eli has beat him twice in the superbowl?

Looking at their entire careers- yes. Looking at just last year- yes. Just a simple eye test w/o looking at the stats it's obvious to me Brady over Eli.

The NYGs beat the Pats twice. Eli didn't beat Brady ever. IMO he didn't even outplay him in the SB. Brady was a dropped pass from being the SB MVP.

http://shhuus.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/msi0ifex00-cd001.jpg?w=300&h=300

B&RWarrior
04-05-2012, 10:20 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</P>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</P>

If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

chasjay
04-05-2012, 10:26 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

Can you put Brady ahead of Eli? Considering Eli has beat him twice in the superbowl?

Looking at their entire careers- yes. Looking at just last year- yes. Just a simple eye test w/o looking at the stats it's obvious to me Brady over Eli.

The NYGs beat the Pats twice. Eli didn't beat Brady ever. IMO he didn't even outplay him in the SB. Brady was a dropped pass from being the SB MVP.

Your sig and your posts on this subject complement each other very well. If Brady had thrown that pass to Welker <u>half</u> as well as Eli placed that throw to Manningham, Welker would have almost certainly caught the ball. And if that play to Welker had happened, it still doesn't guarantee a win for the Pats. Eli was the better QB that day - he was the better QB in the regular season game of 2011 - and he was the better QB in SB XLII.

I'm not saying that Eli is better than Brady - but you need better ammo if you're going to make the case of Brady over Eli. It is your opinion, not "obvious", that it is Brady over Eli.

Drez
04-05-2012, 10:28 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</p>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</p>

If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Whole career? Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

And who are you to create the criteria that this guy is using in his ranking? He said he believes Eli to be the best QB entering the 2012 season. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. To say otherwise is being ignorant.

Flip Empty
04-05-2012, 10:29 PM
#1 Eli Manning"...A 30-touchdown/4,000-yard passer with two Super Bowls in the past five years. Both won with last-minute drives -- and both over Tom Brady. Give me a better recent résumé. You can't....."</P>


Honestly, it's a solid argument.</P>


I can understand if people think Brees or Rodgers should be ranked higher....but Brees **** the bed against the 49ers, and Rodgers **** the bed against the Giants.</P>


In short, Eli's performance has put him in the "Who is #1" debate.</P>


</P>
Rodgers' receivers **** the bed against the Giants. It seemed like he was the only one who wanted to play in that game.

Drez
04-05-2012, 10:30 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

Can you put Brady ahead of Eli? Considering Eli has beat him twice in the superbowl?

Looking at their entire careers- yes. Looking at just last year- yes. Just a simple eye test w/o looking at the stats it's obvious to me Brady over Eli.

The NYGs beat the Pats twice. Eli didn't beat Brady ever. IMO he didn't even outplay him in the SB. Brady was a dropped pass from being the SB MVP.

Your sig and your posts on this subject complement each other very well. If Brady had thrown that pass to Welker <u>half</u> as well as Eli placed that throw to Manningham, Welker would have almost certainly caught the ball. And if that play to Welker had happened, it still doesn't guarantee a win for the Pats. Eli was the better QB that day - he was the better QB in the regular season game of 2011 - and he was the better QB in SB XLII.

I'm not saying that Eli is better than Brady - but you need better ammo if you're going to make the case of Brady over Eli. It is your opinion, not "obvious", that it is Brady over Eli.

Notice he doesn't conjecture what happens if Manningham doesn't drift out of bounds on that beaut that Eli threw to him a couple of series earlier.

Sure, Welker should have caught that pass, but Brady still overthrew it a little.

Also, it's hard to make a case that Brady played better than Eli in the SB. Eli had a higher comp%, more yards, only 1 fewer TDs and no picks. He just flat out played a better game.

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 10:35 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</P>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</P>


If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. </P>


As usual, we agree.</P>

Drez
04-05-2012, 10:36 PM
#1 Eli Manning"...A 30-touchdown/4,000-yard passer with two Super Bowls in the past five years. Both won with last-minute drives -- and both over Tom Brady. Give me a better recent résumé. You can't....."</p>


Honestly, it's a solid argument.</p>


I can understand if people think Brees or Rodgers should be ranked higher....but Brees **** the bed against the 49ers, and Rodgers **** the bed against the Giants.</p>


In short, Eli's performance has put him in the "Who is #1" debate.</p>


</p>
Rodgers' receivers **** the bed against the Giants. It seemed like he was the only one who wanted to play in that game.
Rodgers screwed up a few times, too. He overthrew Finely on what probably would have been a TD early in the game. Then there was the sack/fumble. There were a couple other opportunities that Rodgers left out there, too.

GmenFan1980
04-05-2012, 10:37 PM
#1 Eli Manning"...A 30-touchdown/4,000-yard passer with two Super Bowls in the past five years. Both won with last-minute drives -- and both over Tom Brady. Give me a better recent résumé. You can't....."</P>


Honestly, it's a solid argument.</P>


I can understand if people think Brees or Rodgers should be ranked higher....but Brees **** the bed against the 49ers, and Rodgers **** the bed against the Giants.</P>


In short, Eli's performance has put him in the "Who is #1" debate.</P>


</P>
Rodgers' receivers **** the bed against the Giants. It seemed like he was the only one who wanted to play in that game.

Yeah that's it.

That's why Rodgers threw bad passes to wide open receivers.....because the receivers screwed up :/.

Drez
04-05-2012, 10:37 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</p>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</p>


If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. </p>


As usual, we agree.</p>
So long as we aren't talking about JR, lol. [B]

B&RWarrior
04-05-2012, 10:38 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</p>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</p>

If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Whole career? Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

And who are you to create the criteria that this guy is using in his ranking? He said he believes Eli to be the best QB entering the 2012 season. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. To say otherwise is being ignorant.


I just did the comparison and no he doesn't compare favorably to Brady, Brees, or Rodgers, not this year not ever- never. You can have an opinion but you would have a much stronger argument if you had a fact based opinion. The facts don't support the case for Eli asthe best QB in the league. Going in to 2012 he is still not the best QB in the league and its not even close. Rodgers by a mile over EVERY QB. If you say otherwise you either are biased aka a homer, or you know nothing about football.

It's like in Bad Teacher when the kid tries to make the argument that Lebron is better than Michael Jordan. Yes it is his opinion, which he has a right to, and it is DEAD WRONG!

Eli is the best of the second tier of QBs but there is a gap between him and Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 10:42 PM
#1 Eli Manning"...A 30-touchdown/4,000-yard passer with two Super Bowls in the past five years. Both won with last-minute drives -- and both over Tom Brady. Give me a better recent résumé. You can't....."</P>


Honestly, it's a solid argument.</P>


I can understand if people think Brees or Rodgers should be ranked higher....but Brees **** the bed against the 49ers, and Rodgers **** the bed against the Giants.</P>


In short, Eli's performance has put him in the "Who is #1" debate.</P>


</P>


Rodgers' receivers **** the bed against the Giants. It seemed like he was the only one who wanted to play in that game.</P>


I've lost count of how many drops, bad routes, and tipped interceptions the Giants offense has had over the years. It's part of the game.</P>


Fact is, the Giants blew the Packers doors off, and Eli was a big reason why.....the Packers didn't come close to stopping them all game, even with the refs helping out.</P>


Rodgers is an awesome QB....no doubt about it.</P>


And if they start giving out Super Bowls for"best regular reason stats".....I'd be going Brees 1A and Rodgers 1B.</P>


But if you ask a football fan who they could pick to drive down the field and win a Super Bowl ... suddenly, Eli's name is right in the mix.</P>


</P>

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 10:44 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</P>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</P>


If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. </P>


As usual, we agree.</P>



So long as we aren't talking about JR, lol. [B]
</P>


LOL.....Honestly, I love JR..... one of the best GM's in the league. I just can't help but bust on GM'sduring the offseason....it's a habit I picked up in the Accorsi years, and still haven't shaken it.</P>

Flip Empty
04-05-2012, 10:45 PM
#1 Eli Manning"...A 30-touchdown/4,000-yard passer with two Super Bowls in the past five years. Both won with last-minute drives -- and both over Tom Brady. Give me a better recent résumé. You can't....."</P>


Honestly, it's a solid argument.</P>


I can understand if people think Brees or Rodgers should be ranked higher....but Brees **** the bed against the 49ers, and Rodgers **** the bed against the Giants.</P>


In short, Eli's performance has put him in the "Who is #1" debate.</P>


</P>


Rodgers' receivers **** the bed against the Giants. It seemed like he was the only one who wanted to play in that game.</P>


I've lost count of how many drops, bad routes, and tipped interceptions the Giants offense has had over the years. It's part of the game.</P>


Fact is, the Giants blew the Packers doors off, and Eli was a big reason why.....the Packers didn't come close to stopping them all game, even with the refs helping out.</P>


Rodgers is an awesome QB....no doubt about it.</P>


And if they start giving out Super Bowls for "best regular reason stats".....I'd be going Brees 1A and Rodgers 1B.</P>


But if you ask a football fan who they could pick to drive down the field and win a Super Bowl ... suddenly, Eli's name is right in the mix.</P>


</P>
Rodgers didn't **** the bed in that game. That's all I was saying.

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 10:46 PM
#1 Eli Manning"...A 30-touchdown/4,000-yard passer with two Super Bowls in the past five years. Both won with last-minute drives -- and both over Tom Brady. Give me a better recent résumé. You can't....."</P>


Honestly, it's a solid argument.</P>


I can understand if people think Brees or Rodgers should be ranked higher....but Brees **** the bed against the 49ers, and Rodgers **** the bed against the Giants.</P>


In short, Eli's performance has put him in the "Who is #1" debate.</P>


</P>


Rodgers' receivers **** the bed against the Giants. It seemed like he was the only one who wanted to play in that game.</P>


I've lost count of how many drops, bad routes, and tipped interceptions the Giants offense has had over the years. It's part of the game.</P>


Fact is, the Giants blew the Packers doors off, and Eli was a big reason why.....the Packers didn't come close to stopping them all game, even with the refs helping out.</P>


Rodgers is an awesome QB....no doubt about it.</P>


And if they start giving out Super Bowls for "best regular reason stats".....I'd be going Brees 1A and Rodgers 1B.</P>


But if you ask a football fan who they could pick to drive down the field and win a Super Bowl ... suddenly, Eli's name is right in the mix.</P>


</P>


Rodgers didn't **** the bed in that game. That's all I was saying.</P>


I'll concede it was more on his receivers than him....but he didn't win the game, that's fo' sho.</P>

lawl
04-05-2012, 10:56 PM
Eli has had one great regular season in his entire career.

JMFP2
04-05-2012, 11:00 PM
Eli has had one great regular season in his entire career.</P>


If you are counting in dog years......</P>


.....3000+ yards and 20+ TD seven years in a row.</P>

Drez
04-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</p>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</p>

If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Whole career? Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

And who are you to create the criteria that this guy is using in his ranking? He said he believes Eli to be the best QB entering the 2012 season. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. To say otherwise is being ignorant.


I just did the comparison and no he doesn't compare favorably to Brady, Brees, or Rodgers, not this year not ever- never. You can have an opinion but you would have a much stronger argument if you had a fact based opinion. The facts don't support the case for Eli asthe best QB in the league. Going in to 2012 he is still not the best QB in the league and its not even close. Rodgers by a mile over EVERY QB. If you say otherwise you either are biased aka a homer, or you know nothing about football.

It's like in Bad Teacher when the kid tries to make the argument that Lebron is better than Michael Jordan. Yes it is his opinion, which he has a right to, and it is DEAD WRONG!

Eli is the best of the second tier of QBs but there is a gap between him and Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

Let me clarify that. From the moment each became full season starters through 7 full seasons, Eli's stats stack up with any of the QBs you'd rank ahead of Eli (though admittedly I hadn't tabulated Rodgers', as he hasn't been playing long enough). The only major stat that Eli is behind all of them in is comp%, which he has greatly improved upon the past few years. Also, for everyone but Peyton they all seem to make a significant statistical jump in their 6th-8th seasons.

I think you're stretching it to say that Rodgers is miles better than any other QB. If that were so, we would have lost to GB. Eli dueled bullet for bullet with Rodgers in the regular season game, and just outplayed him in the playoffs. For all the dropped passes in that game Rodgers still made some mistakes. In fact, if not for some BS calls, we hold GB to 6 points. Again, if Rodgers was MILES better that would not have been the case.

To continue your Bad Teacher analogy, when people say that Rodgers, Brees, or the elder Manning is a better QB I can say, "He's got TWO RINGS. The others just have ONE," which was the crux of Jason Segal's character's rebuttal to the child making the case for LBJ.

There are no "facts" that one can use to say that one QB is definitively better than the other in this discussion. That is why there is even a discussion to begin with. If we just went on stats then we'd say Brees was the best QB, end of discussion. But, that isn't the case. There is more to the game than just the numbers. And even with just the numbers for 2011, Eli's are within the statistical measure of any of the guys you'd place ahead of him. That is to say, Eli is legitimately in the discussion as being the top QB in the league as not much separates the top 5 guys in the league.

To say that a significant gap still exists between Eli and Brady, Brees, and Rodgers is to say that you have not given up formerly held assumptions about reality that no longer reflect objective world.

B&RWarrior
04-05-2012, 11:08 PM
I just ran the numbers on an Eli vs AR comparison to see if I was wrong and that their is a legitimate argument for Eli to be considered the best QB in the league.

Since this is AR's 4th year as a full time starter I compared Eli's first 4 years as a full time starter starting with 2005- excluding his rookie year since he only played 9 games.

Category Eli AR

Comp. % 56.725 65.575

Total Yrds 13,580 17,037

TDs 92 131

Fumbles 28 20

INT 65 37

Passer Rat. 78.3 105.175


Now tell where you see room to argue. I know you say your talking about 2011 Eli versus 2011 AR. The numbers only get worse. This is not a real arument- hands down AR. Throw all the numbers out the window and just watch the games- AR all the way.

lawl
04-05-2012, 11:11 PM
Eli has had one great regular season in his entire career.</P>


If you are counting in dog years......</P>


.....3000+ yards and 20+ TD seven years in a row.</P>

3000 yards is a great season?

Ntegrase96
04-05-2012, 11:13 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</p>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</p>

If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Whole career? Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

And who are you to create the criteria that this guy is using in his ranking? He said he believes Eli to be the best QB entering the 2012 season. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. To say otherwise is being ignorant.


I just did the comparison and no he doesn't compare favorably to Brady, Brees, or Rodgers, not this year not ever- never. You can have an opinion but you would have a much stronger argument if you had a fact based opinion. The facts don't support the case for Eli asthe best QB in the league. Going in to 2012 he is still not the best QB in the league and its not even close. Rodgers by a mile over EVERY QB. If you say otherwise you either are biased aka a homer, or you know nothing about football.

It's like in Bad Teacher when the kid tries to make the argument that Lebron is better than Michael Jordan. Yes it is his opinion, which he has a right to, and it is DEAD WRONG!

Eli is the best of the second tier of QBs but there is a gap between him and Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

Let me clarify that. From the moment each became full season starters through 7 full seasons, Eli's stats stack up with any of the QBs you'd rank ahead of Eli (though admittedly I hadn't tabulated Rodgers', as he hasn't been playing long enough). The only major stat that Eli is behind all of them in is comp%, which he has greatly improved upon the past few years. Also, for everyone but Peyton they all seem to make a significant statistical jump in their 6th-8th seasons.

I think you're stretching it to say that Rodgers is miles better than any other QB. If that were so, we would have lost to GB. Eli dueled bullet for bullet with Rodgers in the regular season game, and just outplayed him in the playoffs. For all the dropped passes in that game Rodgers still made some mistakes. In fact, if not for some BS calls, we hold GB to 6 points. Again, if Rodgers was MILES better that would not have been the case.

To continue your Bad Teacher analogy, when people say that Rodgers, Brees, or the elder Manning is a better QB I can say, "He's got TWO RINGS. The others just have ONE," which was the crux of Jason Segal's character's rebuttal to the child making the case for LBJ.

There are no "facts" that one can use to say that one QB is definitively better than the other in this discussion. That is why there is even a discussion to begin with. If we just went on stats then we'd say Brees was the best QB, end of discussion. But, that isn't the case. There is more to the game than just the numbers. And even with just the numbers for 2011, Eli's are within the statistical measure of any of the guys you'd place ahead of him. That is to say, Eli is legitimately in the discussion as being the top QB in the league as not much separates the top 5 guys in the league.

To say that a significant gap still exists between Eli and Brady, Brees, and Rodgers is to say that you have not given up formerly held assumptions about reality that no longer reflect objective world.


He also trumps most in turnovers. 50 turnovers the last two seasons. By comparison, that's 24 more than the turnover prone Tony Romo's last two complete seasons.

I posted on the eagles board as well, you have to look at the bad and the good. The guy that made this list seems to only remember the good and seemingly credits Eli solely for the Giants success with statements like "beating Brady twice".

I think Eli is a pretty darn good QB, but is a step down from the likes of Rodgers, Brees, and Brady (who obviously should be considered the best QB in the league at this point) and if his brother returns to form, throw Peyton in there as well.

chasjay
04-05-2012, 11:27 PM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</p>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</p>

If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Whole career? Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

And who are you to create the criteria that this guy is using in his ranking? He said he believes Eli to be the best QB entering the 2012 season. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. To say otherwise is being ignorant.


I just did the comparison and no he doesn't compare favorably to Brady, Brees, or Rodgers, not this year not ever- never. You can have an opinion but you would have a much stronger argument if you had a fact based opinion. The facts don't support the case for Eli asthe best QB in the league. Going in to 2012 he is still not the best QB in the league and its not even close. Rodgers by a mile over EVERY QB. If you say otherwise you either are biased aka a homer, or you know nothing about football.

It's like in Bad Teacher when the kid tries to make the argument that Lebron is better than Michael Jordan. Yes it is his opinion, which he has a right to, and it is DEAD WRONG!

Eli is the best of the second tier of QBs but there is a gap between him and Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

Excuse me - I thought the discussion was about down-in-the-dirt, gut-it-out, play-till-you-can't, measure-the-scoreboard, American Football. If I'd known you were talking about Fantasy Football, I would never have gotten in the discussion. I never saw "Bad Teacher", but I suspicion that you've had a few.

giantsfan420
04-05-2012, 11:29 PM
fantasy football-Brees
Regular season-Peyton, and Rodgers right there
Regular season/Playoffs-Eli/Brady (Eli having a 3-0 record vs him, and 3-1 total with the 1 loss Eli going throw for throw with him)

It depends what you place the most importance on. If you place it on clutchness, having the most road/nuetral site victories in NFL history, most 4th qtr TD's in a season, 3rd most come from behind gw drives in the post-season, which I place importance on, Eli IS the best QB in the league...

I remember saying yes Eli would become the best QB in the league, and I took some flak for it from some, but god i love making a bold prediction and it coming true...

When Eli has another season/playoffs next year as he did this past season, it will be widely accepted Eli is the best overall QB.

And when people go "oh the stats this and that"...well if your going to base it solely on stats, then system, location, climate, talent surrounding the QB all have to come into play.

But bottom line, highest win% in the NFC since 2004-2005. Never led a team to a losing record. 4k yards the past 4 seasons, 60% compl, and the two playoff runs...I honestly wouldnt take another QB over Eli, especially when he hasnt even reached his ceiling...chew on that for a moment, Eli can still improve his game by a pretty significant amount...guy does all the line checks, is AMAZING in the final 2 min of a half/game, super clutch...he just wins. i'd say he places wins over stats, which is exactly what I want from my QB. wouldnt trade him for anything

B&RWarrior
04-05-2012, 11:31 PM
He also trumps most in turnovers. 50 turnovers the last two seasons. By comparison, that's 24 more than the turnover prone Tony Romo's last two complete seasons.

I posted on the eagles board as well, you have to look at the bad and the good. The guy that made this list seems to only remember the good and seemingly credits Eli solely for the Giants success with statements like "beating Brady twice".

I think Eli is a pretty darn good QB, but is a step down from the likes of Rodgers, Brees, and Brady (who obviously should be considered the best QB in the league at this point) and if his brother returns to form, throw Peyton in there as well.


Thank you! The sound voice of reason. Eli's my guy. I'm big blue all the way but I can't lie to myself and call him the best in the league or even pretend that there is merit to that argument. It simply is not the case. He is a notch below Brees, Brady, and Rodgers in almost every statistical category. Beyond the stats when you watch them play the argument for him being the best doesn't pass the eye test. I can watch AR, Brady, & Brees and tell they are better.

My final point is greatness can't be based one season. Eli had one GREAT year, but Brees, Brady, and Rodgers have been great for an extended period of time. Let's revisit this argument in 3 or 4 years, b/c right now there isn't one.

giantsfan420
04-05-2012, 11:36 PM
He also trumps most in turnovers. 50 turnovers the last two seasons. By comparison, that's 24 more than the turnover prone Tony Romo's last two complete seasons.

I posted on the eagles board as well, you have to look at the bad and the good. The guy that made this list seems to only remember the good and seemingly credits Eli solely for the Giants success with statements like "beating Brady twice".

I think Eli is a pretty darn good QB, but is a step down from the likes of Rodgers, Brees, and Brady (who obviously should be considered the best QB in the league at this point) and if his brother returns to form, throw Peyton in there as well.


Thank you! The sound voice of reason. Eli's my guy. I'm big blue all the way but I can't lie to myself and call him the best in the league or even pretend that there is merit to that argument. It simply is not the case. He is a notch below Brees, Brady, and Rodgers in almost every statistical category. Beyond the stats when you watch them play the argument for him being the best doesn't pass the eye test. I can watch AR, Brady, & Brees and tell they are better.

My final point is greatness can't be based one season. Eli had one GREAT year, but Brees, Brady, and Rodgers have been great for an extended period of time. Let's revisit this argument in 3 or 4 years, b/c right now there isn't one.

then how does eli have the most road playoff victories in nfl history? 3rd most GW drives in post season history? how is he 1 of 6 qbs ALL TIME to throw for 3k yards and 20 tds in 7 yrs straight?? how does he have the highest win % of a QB since 2005 (NFC), why has a team he's led never had a losing record?? guess they expanded the season last yr and i missed it

B&RWarrior
04-06-2012, 12:00 AM
then how does eli have the most road playoff victories in nfl history? 3rd most GW drives in post season history? how is he 1 of 6 qbs ALL TIME to throw for 3k yards and 20 tds in 7 yrs straight?? how does he have the highest win % of a QB since 2005 (NFC), why has a team he's led never had a losing record?? guess they expanded the season last yr and i missed it

I'll take your questions one by one. This is fun.

He has road playoff record b/c the Giants played below their ability in the regular season. Brees and Brady where at home for the playoffs b/c they had great regular seasons.

GW Drives is the one category where Eli has a legitimate argument for being the best. His clutch factor defines him more than anything else.

3K would be impressive if Brady, Brees, and Rodgers weren't also throwing for 3,000+ yards.

The other questions (and probably the first ones as well) are invalid when you take into account Giants winning formula outside of this year has always included a strong running game and solid defense. Winning %, and overall wins and losses accounts for more than just QB play. Outside of this year the Giants when winning were heavily reliant on the running game and the defense.

giantsfan420
04-06-2012, 12:04 AM
then how does eli have the most road playoff victories in nfl history? 3rd most GW drives in post season history? how is he 1 of 6 qbs ALL TIME to throw for 3k yards and 20 tds in 7 yrs straight?? how does he have the highest win % of a QB since 2005 (NFC), why has a team he's led never had a losing record?? guess they expanded the season last yr and i missed it

I'll take your questions one by one. This is fun.

He has road playoff record b/c the Giants played below their ability in the regular season. Brees and Brady where at home for the playoffs b/c they had great regular seasons.

GW Drives is the one category where Eli has a legitimate argument for being the best. His clutch factor defines him more than anything else.

3K would be impressive if Brady, Brees, and Rodgers weren't also throwing for 3,000+ yards.

The other questions (and probably the first ones as well) are invalid when you take into account Giants winning formula outside of this year has always included a strong running game and solid defense. Winning %, and overall wins and losses accounts for more than just QB play. Outside of this year the Giants when winning were heavily reliant on the running game and the defense.

yeah your right Brees gets it done on the roa...oh wait no he doesn't. well your right about Rodgers, he's been doing this for years...oh wait, no he hasn't.

The true top tier of FOOTBALL, not FANTASY FOOTBALL, is Eli, Brady, Peyton (to an extent but really the regular season)...we can agree to disagree, but your stance on this is no better than mine. its just your subjective opinion compared to mine...oh, and wouldnt our "run game style of offense" SUPPORT eli's amazing play as he still throws for over 4k yards????
dont bother, theres no point in a back and forth, you feel one way, i feel the correct way

jjj45
04-06-2012, 12:05 AM
gawd. fifty replies? here we go again........

jjj45
04-06-2012, 12:06 AM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.

Can you put Brady ahead of Eli? Considering Eli has beat him twice in the superbowl?

Looking at their entire careers- yes. Looking at just last year- yes. Just a simple eye test w/o looking at the stats it's obvious to me Brady over Eli.

The NYGs beat the Pats twice. Eli didn't beat Brady ever. IMO he didn't even outplay him in the SB. Brady was a dropped pass from being the SB MVP.
Dumbest argument of the night.
There will be more.

chasjay
04-06-2012, 12:26 AM
gawd. fifty replies? here we go again........


You're right. I'm embarrassed for having participated. Maybe the draft will get some good discussions going soon.

Drez
04-06-2012, 12:33 AM
I just ran the numbers on an Eli vs AR comparison to see if I was wrong and that their is a legitimate argument for Eli to be considered the best QB in the league.

Since this is AR's 4th year as a full time starter I compared Eli's first 4 years as a full time starter starting with 2005- excluding his rookie year since he only played 9 games.

Category Eli AR

Comp. % 56.725 65.575

Total Yrds 13,580 17,037

TDs 92 131

Fumbles 28 20

INT 65 37

Passer Rat. 78.3 105.175


Now tell where you see room to argue. I know you say your talking about 2011 Eli versus 2011 AR. The numbers only get worse. This is not a real arument- hands down AR. Throw all the numbers out the window and just watch the games- AR all the way.
AR is a great QB, however, seeing as he didn't start until his 4th season, it's not necessarily a fair comparison. Rodgers had more time to acclimate to the NFL before starting. That's going to skew things some.

Here's where you have room to argue. Eli is 1-0 against AR in the playoffs. Eli has 2 rings and SB MVPs to ARs 1. Sure, Rodgers' stats are prettier, but Eli has a more impressive array of signature wins.

And would AR's game look so effortless in our system? Would Eli have had the same early struggles he had if he was in GB's?

When I see both QBs play, I see two great QBs that are at the top of the game. Is Rodgers better? Yeah, I'd say he probably is. But, it isn't by a whole lot and an argument can be made that Eli is as good if not better. A lot of what makes Eli great are things that don't show up on stat sheets. Hell, they're not even things you can really see in a game. He lacks the natural athleticism and grace or raw physicality that other QBs do, and as such Eli's game doesn't look as pretty. But, name me another QB that's as tough and durable as Eli? Name me another QB without the last name Manning that has as much presnap responsibility on every play as Eli? Again, if it was just about stats, then Brees would be the hands down winner of this debate. But, playing QB is more than just the numbers.

To argue that Eli isn't legitimately in the discussion of being one of the top QBs is just silly.

Bing Crosby
04-06-2012, 12:39 AM
Hmm the guy who is the field marshal for the system that beat the legendary defensive guru's Belichick's schemes three times in a row, twice in a Super Bowl.

If Bill Belichick's the greatest defensive mind of the modern age, and Eli has lead the offense that has beaten that defense three times in a row it seems to me that he has a reason to be considered one of the best today. As I recall the legend is "If Belicheck has more then a week he can think of a plan that beats any offense." Well that's been proven false, twice now, by offense's lead by Eli on the field.

But then again I don't go crazy when guys like Drew Brees run up their numbers in a dome, with the Saint's "no holds barred" offense system where they continue to score, and throw on defenses that have given up. You know the way Brees did to us in his dome last year.

JMFP2
04-06-2012, 12:39 AM
Eli has had one great regular season in his entire career.</P>


If you are counting in dog years......</P>


.....3000+ yards and 20+ TD seven years in a row.</P>


3000 yards is a great season?</P>


Good to great, depending on certain other factors.</P>

Drez
04-06-2012, 12:43 AM
Eli is the 4th best QB in the league at best.</p>


If you stop before the playoffs begin......no doubt about it.</p>

If you count the playoffs he's still the 4th best QB. You have to rank a QB based on what they've done over their whole career not one playoff run. If you do that putting Eli 4th is generous.

Whole career? Eli's stats stack up very favorably to all of the QB's you'd rank ahead of him at similar points in their careers. He's got two SB rings and two SB MVPs. The only other that you can say that about is Brady, to wit, Eli's taken down in two SBs.

And who are you to create the criteria that this guy is using in his ranking? He said he believes Eli to be the best QB entering the 2012 season. Nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, there isn't a whole hell of a lot separating the top 5 QBs in the NFL, and Eli is legitimately in that discussion. To say otherwise is being ignorant.


I just did the comparison and no he doesn't compare favorably to Brady, Brees, or Rodgers, not this year not ever- never. You can have an opinion but you would have a much stronger argument if you had a fact based opinion. The facts don't support the case for Eli asthe best QB in the league. Going in to 2012 he is still not the best QB in the league and its not even close. Rodgers by a mile over EVERY QB. If you say otherwise you either are biased aka a homer, or you know nothing about football.

It's like in Bad Teacher when the kid tries to make the argument that Lebron is better than Michael Jordan. Yes it is his opinion, which he has a right to, and it is DEAD WRONG!

Eli is the best of the second tier of QBs but there is a gap between him and Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

Let me clarify that. From the moment each became full season starters through 7 full seasons, Eli's stats stack up with any of the QBs you'd rank ahead of Eli (though admittedly I hadn't tabulated Rodgers', as he hasn't been playing long enough). The only major stat that Eli is behind all of them in is comp%, which he has greatly improved upon the past few years. Also, for everyone but Peyton they all seem to make a significant statistical jump in their 6th-8th seasons.

I think you're stretching it to say that Rodgers is miles better than any other QB. If that were so, we would have lost to GB. Eli dueled bullet for bullet with Rodgers in the regular season game, and just outplayed him in the playoffs. For all the dropped passes in that game Rodgers still made some mistakes. In fact, if not for some BS calls, we hold GB to 6 points. Again, if Rodgers was MILES better that would not have been the case.

To continue your Bad Teacher analogy, when people say that Rodgers, Brees, or the elder Manning is a better QB I can say, "He's got TWO RINGS. The others just have ONE," which was the crux of Jason Segal's character's rebuttal to the child making the case for LBJ.

There are no "facts" that one can use to say that one QB is definitively better than the other in this discussion. That is why there is even a discussion to begin with. If we just went on stats then we'd say Brees was the best QB, end of discussion. But, that isn't the case. There is more to the game than just the numbers. And even with just the numbers for 2011, Eli's are within the statistical measure of any of the guys you'd place ahead of him. That is to say, Eli is legitimately in the discussion as being the top QB in the league as not much separates the top 5 guys in the league.

To say that a significant gap still exists between Eli and Brady, Brees, and Rodgers is to say that you have not given up formerly held assumptions about reality that no longer reflect objective world.


He also trumps most in turnovers. 50 turnovers the last two seasons. By comparison, that's 24 more than the turnover prone Tony Romo's last two complete seasons.

I posted on the eagles board as well, you have to look at the bad and the good. The guy that made this list seems to only remember the good and seemingly credits Eli solely for the Giants success with statements like "beating Brady twice".

I think Eli is a pretty darn good QB, but is a step down from the likes of Rodgers, Brees, and Brady (who obviously should be considered the best QB in the league at this point) and if his brother returns to form, throw Peyton in there as well.

2010 was an anomaly as far as his turnovers were concerned. Brees throws a ton of picks, too. In fact, he's only had 4 seasons where he's thrown fewer than 15. However, no one seems to ever mention that. He had 22 the same year that Eli had 25, but somehow it was overlooked.

Drez
04-06-2012, 12:45 AM
Eli has had one great regular season in his entire career.</p>


If you are counting in dog years......</p>


.....3000+ yards and 20+ TD seven years in a row.</p>


3000 yards is a great season?</p>


Good to great, depending on certain other factors.</p>
Considering that only 4 or 5 QBs have ever had that many consecutive seasons of having both 3k+ yards and 20+ tds, I'd have to say, yes, that is pretty great.

Drez
04-06-2012, 12:49 AM
you feel one way, i feel the correct way
Haha. If we ever meet, I owe you a beer for that line, rofl.

Sundown
04-06-2012, 12:50 AM
Damn I like the how their is iPhone native

JMFP2
04-06-2012, 12:52 AM
I'm not saying this to be a ****......but someone tell me the last big cold/bad weather game Drew Brees has won.</P>


The guy is lights-out when he's playing in a giant living room, but put him out in the elements, and suddenly he's just another dude.</P>


And San Diego doesn't count as "in the elements". That's like a giant living room with an open window.</P>

B&RWarrior
04-06-2012, 12:58 AM
forget about stats lets talk intangibles?

Accuracy? AR not even close

Deep Ball? AR not even close

Going through progressions? AR not even close

Clutch factor? Eli

3/4 go to AR. Boomer Esiason, Steve Young both said that what AR was doing last year was historic. They said he was on track to be the best QB EVER. Strong statements from knowledgeable sources. 45 TDS 6 INTS. AR is playing at another level than every other QB right now. It's AR then there is everybody else. Why are we having this discussion.

Drez
04-06-2012, 01:01 AM
Damn I like the how their is iPhone native
The new boards will be compatible with mobile phones using Tapatalk.

Ntegrase96
04-06-2012, 01:07 AM
2010 was an anomaly as far as his turnovers were concerned. Brees throws a ton of picks, too. In fact, he's only had 4 seasons where he's thrown fewer than 15. However, no one seems to ever mention that. He had 22 the same year that Eli had 25, but somehow it was overlooked.


Anomaly? Because it was higher than the usual high amount of turnovers he has? I agree 30 is on the high side, but he had 20 this year in 2011 and 22 in 2009... 27 in the 2007 sb year as well. It's not like turning the ball over is out of this world for Eli.

Brees has turned the ball over 173 times to Eli's 160. But he's also started in 34 more games and put the ball up 1500 times more.

In that time he's also managed to pass for 104 more touchdowns, two 5000 yard seasons and broke the record for completion in a season twice.

bleeding blue
04-06-2012, 01:07 AM
I'm as big an Eli fan as there is, but Eli is not the best QB in this league.

I have him ranked 4
1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Eli

I will say he is the most clutch QB there is though

Drez
04-06-2012, 01:13 AM
forget about stats lets talk intangibles?

Accuracy? AR not even close

Deep Ball? AR not even close

Going through progressions? AR not even close

Clutch factor? Eli

3/4 go to AR. Boomer Esiason, Steve Young both said that what AR was doing last year was historic. They said he was on track to be the best QB EVER. Strong statements from knowledgeable sources. 45 TDS 6 INTS. AR is playing at another level than every other QB right now. It's AR then there is everybody else. Why are we having this discussion.
Eli has a great deep ball. It's definitely not a not even close argument. Just because Eli doesn't throw as pretty a spiral doesn't mean he isn't one of the deep ball passers in the league.

Accuracy, yes Rodgers has the edge.

Going through progressions? I'll have to go with Eli on this. He actually has to process more information that Rodgers does when going through his reads. It isn't just, "He's covered, next." He has to read the coverage and then the WR to see what option the WR is going to run.

Yes, Rodgers was on pace for most of the season to have the best statistical season (by Qb rating, lol) that any ever had. He failed in that task. Rodgers had a fantastic season. He was the best regular season QB in 2011. But, that doesn't mean he's the best QB going into 2012. Nor does it mean that one cannot say that Eli belongs in the discussion of being one of the best QBs in the NFL.

Fine, you think Rodgers is hands down, without argument the best QB in the NFL right now. Unfortunately for you, everyone else on the face of the planet disagrees. That's why we're having this discussion. Because it is something that is up for discussion.

Ntegrase96
04-06-2012, 01:16 AM
Eli has had one great regular season in his entire career.</p>


If you are counting in dog years......</p>


.....3000+ yards and 20+ TD seven years in a row.</p>


3000 yards is a great season?</p>


Good to great, depending on certain other factors.</p>
Considering that only 4 or 5 QBs have ever had that many consecutive seasons of having both 3k+ yards and 20+ tds, I'd have to say, yes, that is pretty great.


It's more a testament to his durability than anything. 3000 yards and 20 tds is what a QB should be able to produce. Don't get me wrong, I think durability is underrated and its one of the things that makes Eli a great qb, but 3000 yards and 20tds? Who else is on the list? Modern Era Guys that started a lot consecutively like Favre and his brother Peyton?

Favre-- 12 consecutive seasons
Peyton-- well, all 13 seasons he played. In fact, if it were not for the 3,747 yard season in 05, Peyton would have a 12 season streak of 4,000 yards and 25 plus touchdowns.

Drez
04-06-2012, 01:20 AM
Eli has had one great regular season in his entire career.</p>


If you are counting in dog years......</p>


.....3000+ yards and 20+ TD seven years in a row.</p>


3000 yards is a great season?</p>


Good to great, depending on certain other factors.</p>
Considering that only 4 or 5 QBs have ever had that many consecutive seasons of having both 3k+ yards and 20+ tds, I'd have to say, yes, that is pretty great.


It's more a testament to his durability than anything. 3000 yards and 20 tds is what a QB should be able to produce. Don't get me wrong, I think durability is underrated and its one of the things that makes Eli a great qb, but 3000 yards and 20tds? Who else is on the list? Modern Era Guys that started a lot consecutively like Favre and his brother Peyton?

Favre-- 12 consecutive seasons
Peyton-- well, all 13 seasons he played. In fact, if it were not for the 3,747 yard season in 05, Peyton would have a 12 season streak of 4,000 yards and 25 plus touchdowns.

Durability shouldn't be discounted, nor do I think that that accounts for it. There's plenty of QBs that play 14-16 games a year and still can't break that barrier.

But, either way, it's a very short list of players that have been able to accomplish that feat.

Sundown
04-06-2012, 01:22 AM
Nice!!

Drez
04-06-2012, 01:22 AM
I'm as big an Eli fan as there is, but Eli is not the best QB in this league.

I have him ranked 4
1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Eli

I will say he is the most clutch QB there is though

Honestly, I don't think he's the best, either. But, answer me this, can you make a case that he is or that he's just as good those above him on that list? Or if nothing else that what separates Eli from those above him is a matter of inches and not feet or miles?

Ntegrase96
04-06-2012, 01:27 AM
forget about stats lets talk intangibles?

Accuracy? AR not even close

Deep Ball? AR not even close

Going through progressions? AR not even close

Clutch factor? Eli

3/4 go to AR. Boomer Esiason, Steve Young both said that what AR was doing last year was historic. They said he was on track to be the best QB EVER. Strong statements from knowledgeable sources. 45 TDS 6 INTS. AR is playing at another level than every other QB right now. It's AR then there is everybody else. Why are we having this discussion.
Eli has a great deep ball. It's definitely not a not even close argument. Just because Eli doesn't throw as pretty a spiral doesn't mean he isn't one of the deep ball passers in the league.

Accuracy, yes Rodgers has the edge.

Going through progressions? I'll have to go with Eli on this. He actually has to process more information that Rodgers does when going through his reads. It isn't just, "He's covered, next." He has to read the coverage and then the WR to see what option the WR is going to run.

Yes, Rodgers was on pace for most of the season to have the best statistical season (by Qb rating, lol) that any ever had. He failed in that task. Rodgers had a fantastic season. He was the best regular season QB in 2011. But, that doesn't mean he's the best QB going into 2012. Nor does it mean that one cannot say that Eli belongs in the discussion of being one of the best QBs in the NFL.

Fine, you think Rodgers is hands down, without argument the best QB in the NFL right now. Unfortunately for you, everyone else on the face of the planet disagrees. That's why we're having this discussion. Because it is something that is up for discussion.


The people that disagree with the idea that Rodgers is the best QB concede that it's Brady that holds the crown. Brees is next in line.

Most people still aren't talking about Eli being top tier, and I can't say I disagree with them. If there is debate over a player that's been in the league since 2004 on whether or not he's top tier, he's not.

Here's a good forum that has opinions of fans of teams around the league. The site is well run and most people there are logical and for the most part not very biased.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=484689&amp;start=0

Ntegrase96
04-06-2012, 01:30 AM
Eli has had one great regular season in his entire career.</p>


If you are counting in dog years......</p>


.....3000+ yards and 20+ TD seven years in a row.</p>


3000 yards is a great season?</p>


Good to great, depending on certain other factors.</p>
Considering that only 4 or 5 QBs have ever had that many consecutive seasons of having both 3k+ yards and 20+ tds, I'd have to say, yes, that is pretty great.


It's more a testament to his durability than anything. 3000 yards and 20 tds is what a QB should be able to produce. Don't get me wrong, I think durability is underrated and its one of the things that makes Eli a great qb, but 3000 yards and 20tds? Who else is on the list? Modern Era Guys that started a lot consecutively like Favre and his brother Peyton?

Favre-- 12 consecutive seasons
Peyton-- well, all 13 seasons he played. In fact, if it were not for the 3,747 yard season in 05, Peyton would have a 12 season streak of 4,000 yards and 25 plus touchdowns.

Durability shouldn't be discounted, nor do I think that that accounts for it. There's plenty of QBs that play 14-16 games a year and still can't break that barrier.

But, either way, it's a very short list of players that have been able to accomplish that feat.


And Romo has the 2nd high QB rating of all time. Most good QBs have some kind of cool stat that applies to a select number of guys. There's just a ton of stats to go around and excel in. Especially ones as vague as that. For instance, yes there are only a few names on that list, but two guys that were in the league at the same time as Eli began this streak were consistently hitting over 4000 a year with 30 touchdowns (or Peyton's 49) for the most part.

I'm not saying that accounts for it entirely. You can't be a sorry QB and get numbers like that. But you don't have to be outstanding either.

GmenFan1980
04-06-2012, 01:41 AM
Still don't get why Rodgers gets so much love from people

Is he a great QB? yeah of course.

But what has he done that is so Godly that puts him so ahead of Eli?

Harooni
04-06-2012, 01:43 AM
I think its rodgers right now.

greenca190
04-06-2012, 02:01 AM
Does this debate even matter?

Dudes got two super bowls in his prime. I'm happy with that over any sort of accolades. I'm sure Roethlisberger and Steelers fans will, as well.

GCGiant
04-06-2012, 10:24 AM
Who cares

JMFP2
04-06-2012, 03:55 PM
I'm as big an Eli fan as there is, but Eli is not the best QB in this league.

I have him ranked 4
1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Eli

I will say he is the most clutch QB there is though

I'm not going to knock your list....frankly, I think Eli, after last season, deserves to be considered among the best in the game.

I think the question of who is #1 is very debatable right now....Rodgers, Brees, and Brady all fell back, while Eli took another huge step forward last season.

But, touching on your comment about being "the most clutch QB" in the game...... frankly, I can't think of a more important attribute than that.

When I think of "clutch" QBs.....

Montana
Brady
Unitas
Bart Starr
Troy Aikman
Peyton


When I think of pinball wizards....

Marino
Fouts
Favre
Brees
Rivers

Frankly, I'd rather have a clutch QB than a guy who will destroy some mediocre team at home in the regular season, but can't win in snowflakes.

I will say this.....the "2nd Tier" argument is taking a dirt nap now....2 Time SB MVP...... people that argue Eli is still a "2nd Tier QB" need to come up with some new material.

gumby742
04-06-2012, 04:07 PM
I'm as big an Eli fan as there is, but Eli is not the best QB in this league.

I have him ranked 4
1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Eli

I will say he is the most clutch QB there is though

I'm not going to knock your list....frankly, I think Eli, after last season, deserves to be considered among the best in the game.

I think the question of who is #1 is very debatable right now....Rodgers, Brees, and Brady all fell back, while Eli took another huge step forward last season.

But, touching on your comment about being "the most clutch QB" in the game...... frankly, I can't think of a more important attribute than that.

When I think of "clutch" QBs.....

Montana
Brady
Unitas
Bart Starr
Troy Aikman
Peyton


When I think of pinball wizards....

Marino
Fouts
Favre
Brees
Rivers

Frankly, I'd rather have a clutch QB than a guy who will destroy some mediocre team at home in the regular season, but can't win in snowflakes.

I will say this.....the "2nd Tier" argument is taking a dirt nap now....2 Time SB MVP...... people that argue Eli is still a "2nd Tier QB" need to come up with some new material.

Eli being #1 is very debatable now. However, I disagree that Rodgers, Brady, and Brees took steps back. It's more that Eli took huge strides forward.

Harooni
04-06-2012, 08:38 PM
If Eli is the number 1 QB why is it his numbers dont match that year in and year out. number 1 clutch down by one score sure. but number 1 QB in the nfl ,i dont know about that.

B&RWarrior
04-06-2012, 09:03 PM
Guys before this year Eli's accuracy was a huge question mark. You can't have one good year and all of the sudden be considered the best QB in the league.

Rodgers is going into 2012 as the best QB b/c he was the best QB in 2011, and it wasn't close. 45 TDs and 6 picks. Forget the numbers and watch the games, watch him go through the progressions, drop the ball on a dime throw after throw; then watch him run for first downs as he did on us. It's easy to see why they pushed Favre out of town. He's been playing lights out since he took over 4 years ago. The kid is the goods.

I need to see 2 more years of consistency like he showed last year before I will even talk about Eli being arguably the "best" QB.

BeatYale
04-06-2012, 09:30 PM
Statistically he obviously isn't the best. There's no arguing that. He had 29 touchdowns this year and 16 interceptions. The offense generated a lot of yards, but didn't finish enough drives with touchdowns and that's partly his fault.

Some of those 16 ints were freak occurrences, like the Cruz play against Seattle and the tipped ball against the Jets etc. While some were miscommunications with the WR, there's 2 that stick out in my mind where MM screwed him over. The remaining ints were bad throws though, something he's been known for throughout his career. He made some of these same types of throws during the playoff game against the 49ers, but was fortunate enough that their DBs were colliding into each other or dropping the ball.

However, he does have a knack for playing great in pressure situations. His NFL record of 15 fourth quarter touchdown passes, and most playoff road victories, and most yards in a single post season (I think), and (tied) most 4th quarter TD's from behind during a Super Bowl, is a strong argument for him being the greatest in the clutch. I don't think you can argue it when he owns those stats.

At this point going forward I'd like to see better td-int ratios from him. Keep the ints south of 10 for once.

giantsfan420
04-06-2012, 10:51 PM
Statistically he obviously isn't the best. There's no arguing that. He had 29 touchdowns this year and 16 interceptions. The offense generated a lot of yards, but didn't finish enough drives with touchdowns and that's partly his fault.

Some of those 16 ints were freak occurrences, like the Cruz play against Seattle and the tipped ball against the Jets etc. While some were miscommunications with the WR, there's 2 that stick out in my mind where MM screwed him over. The remaining ints were bad throws though, something he's been known for throughout his career. He made some of these same types of throws during the playoff game against the 49ers, but was fortunate enough that their DBs were colliding into each other or dropping the ball.

However, he does have a knack for playing great in pressure situations. His NFL record of 15 fourth quarter touchdown passes, and most playoff road victories, and most yards in a single post season (I think), and (tied) most 4th quarter TD's from behind during a Super Bowl, is a strong argument for him being the greatest in the clutch. I don't think you can argue it when he owns those stats.

At this point going forward I'd like to see better td-int ratios from him. Keep the ints south of 10 for once.

well about having "only 29" td passes, what about the buffalo game where Bradshaw had 3 td's from the 1 yd line after the receivers were tackled inches shy of the goal? They happened more than I've ever seen throughout the season, almost every game that would end up happening...

and for the ints, besides the ones u mentioned, some that stick out, the int vs NO where Ballard somehow like assisted in that redzone int, the int at NE where Pascoe ran such a lazy route his defender left him to go to MM and came up with a fluke int, those ints vs Washington at home where MM stopped his route after signaling to Eli he was going to continue it, or where Ware didnt turn inside like he was supposed to...
it may seem like i'm nitpicking, my point is that Eli and this team still have a lot of room for improvement, something Eli has done each and every season, and the offense was still why we won the SB and carried the team for much of the season...

I know in todays age we use stats as the measuring stick and vindication tool, but I use my own eye test, which yeah could be subjective, but I believe I have a good outlook/understanding of football, and i usually can base predictions and info off of...

the one stat I think truly speaks to his play is the yards...with ONE 1rst round draft pick, TWO UDFA, and MM, the offense managed nearly 5000 yards passing regular season, and like 300 yds avg in the postseason...WITH THE LEAGUES WORST RUNNING GAME...

for me, that makes what Eli did EVEN MORE SPECIAL than Rodgers and Brees record breaking seasons...those two qbs got a TON of support from their cast, while Eli, as usual, had to deal with injuries, personnel issues with scheme (not always being in the right area), and defenses keying in solely on him and the passing game bc the run game did nothing...from that perspective, i think its unfair to actually NOT place eli above the rest, especially when you factor in the post season.

Remember, absolutely NO ONE, besides me and a few others, thought this team was even talented enough to win a SB outside the QB position, while Eli proved that he was able to elevate his teammates play to world champions...that doesnt get enough attention imho, every analyst had us as "meddlers", or being average, not talented enough...well when we did win the SB, was their opinions of our offense incorrect all of a sudden? or is it that Eli is just simply head and shoulders above the rest...

for all the accolades Rodgers, Brees, and Peyton get...whens the last time one of them beat Tom Brady 3x in arow, let alone TWICE in the SB???????????Peyton won his SB after other teams handled NE, would Rodgers or Brees of won a SB if NE stood in their way???

Fantasy football: Brees, then Brady
Regular Season: Rodgers, then Brady
FF/Regular season: Peyton, then Brady

Regular season/Postseason: Eli, then Brady

its all about where a person places emphasis, as you mention, clutch...to me, that is THE DEFINING measure of the best QB's, winning on the biggest of stages, against the biggest of odds...well Eli takes that HANDS DOWN.

giantsfan420
04-06-2012, 10:54 PM
down by 4, 2 minutes remaining, who do you want to QB if you could pick any QB?

its not even close, for me. its Eli everyday and twice on sunday

B&RWarrior
04-06-2012, 11:12 PM
down by 4, 2 minutes remaining, who do you want to QB if you could pick any QB?

its not even close, for me. its Eli everyday and twice on sunday

I've said this before the clutch factor is where you can argue Eli is the best in the league.

slipknottin
04-07-2012, 12:30 AM
The great Aaron Rodgers has won a total of 4 playoff games. A little more conisistency would be nice before annoiting him the greatest.

The great Brady has been defeated twice in the superbowl by Eli.

Peyton who knows where his health is or how good he will be.

Brees has ridiculous stats, but is pretty much strictly a dome guy, and does horribly outside. Brees in the playoffs at giants stadium vs. Eli? Ill take Eli.

The only QB I would put with Eli at the top is Rapeyburger. But rapists should never be #1.

So Eli is the winner

Ntegrase96
04-07-2012, 02:23 AM
The great Aaron Rodgers has won a total of 4 playoff games. A little more conisistency would be nice before annoiting him the greatest.

The great Brady has been defeated twice in the superbowl by Eli.

Peyton who knows where his health is or how good he will be.

Brees has ridiculous stats, but is pretty much strictly a dome guy, and does horribly outside. Brees in the playoffs at giants stadium vs. Eli? Ill take Eli.

The only QB I would put with Eli at the top is Rapeyburger. But rapists should never be #1.

So Eli is the winner

Shouldn't all of this be in red?

slipknottin
04-07-2012, 02:27 AM
Shouldn't all of this be in red?




why should it be?

Maybe we should be discussing the greatness of postseason romo?

http://c553622.r22.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/tony-romo-crying.jpg

giantsfan420
04-07-2012, 02:35 AM
Shouldn't all of this be in red?




why should it be?

Maybe we should be discussing the greatness of postseason romo?

http://c553622.r22.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/tony-romo-crying.jpg

lol well played.

and to me, saying eli is #1 at being clutch but not #1 overall is like saying snapple tastes the best but the #1 iced tea is Lipton bc it has better color. a lame analogy, but my point is u judge qb's by their clutchness, its like the most important characteristic of a QB and imo, should be the main gauge of how QB''s are graded...using a different scale to grade QB's makes no sense to me.

and theres no way a Dallas fan is ever going to fully give Eli the credit he deserves, Eli's one of the main reasons Dallas sucks and hasnt been a factor in winning championships...theres no way they can be fair in ranking eli bc if they were, theyd have to recognize Romo is like the 14th best qb

lawl
04-07-2012, 09:04 AM
Wins never have been nor will they ever be an official stat attributed to a QB.

If so, do you guys remember that beatdown last year that Rodgers gave Eli that propelled them to a SB and us to sitting at home watching the playoffs?

Eli has had one great season in his entire career. One.

LT_was_good
04-07-2012, 09:49 AM
Wins never have been nor will they ever be an official stat attributed to a QB.

If so, do you guys remember that beatdown last year that Rodgers gave Eli that propelled them to a SB and us to sitting at home watching the playoffs?

Eli has had one great season in his entire career. One.

Yeah and Rodgers outplayed Eli tremendously in that game. He deserves as much credit for that win as Eli does for the win in the playoffs. I think the argument for Eli as #1 isn't so much about "best career to this point." It's more akin to a championship belt. Eli hasn't had a more distinguished career than Brees or Brady, and hasn't put up the numbers Rodgers has over the last few seasons, but he sure as heck has the strap around his waist right now.

Die-Hard
04-07-2012, 11:36 AM
I didn't go through the entire thread, but did anyone happen to notice that the guy who wrote the article is a Fantasy Football Analyst?

He wasn't saying that Eli is the best QB in the league. <u>He ranked him as the #1 Fantasy QB</u>

B&RWarrior
04-07-2012, 11:37 AM
lol well played.

and to me, saying eli is #1 at being clutch but not #1 overall is like saying snapple tastes the best but the #1 iced tea is Lipton bc it has better color. a lame analogy, but my point is u judge qb's by their clutchness, its like the most important characteristic of a QB and imo, should be the main gauge of how QB''s are graded...using a different scale to grade QB's makes no sense to me.


I disagree. Clutch means remaining calm when it counts the most; not losing your cool under pressure. Eli is #1 here. Yet he will always have a few errant throws or times when he forces the ball to receivers that are not open in less crucial moments in the game.

Eli is not #1 in CONSISTENTLY hitting all his throws, accurate deep ball, and not forcing throws. These are the things that are done that keep you out of last minute drives so you don't need the clutch factor and equally as important. This is where Rodgers clearly excels above Eli.

To be honest you can't really argue AR is not clutch because he's not in the position of coming back a lot as Eli was in 2011.

FYI the Giants beat the Pats in 2 SBs. The credit for the first SB goes to the D, specifically the D line, not Eli. Thats right, the defense was the real MVP of the first SB battle with the Pats. This is dedatable, but I don't think Eli outplayed Brady in the SB. Brady was a dropped pass away from victory. I'm a die hard Giant fan but I'm not going to lie about what happened.

B&RWarrior
04-07-2012, 11:41 AM
I didn't go through the entire thread, but did anyone happen to notice that the guy who wrote the article is a Fantasy Football Analyst?

He wasn't saying that Eli is the best QB in the league. <u>He ranked him as the #1 Fantasy QB</u>


Rodgers stat line: 45 TDs 6 picks

The fantasy football QB argument doesn't hold water either?

GCGiant
04-07-2012, 11:50 AM
Note to all posters...

Just because you say it don't make it so...right Harooni?

jjj45
04-07-2012, 11:58 AM
I didn't go through the entire thread, but did anyone happen to notice that the guy who wrote the article is a Fantasy Football Analyst?

He wasn't saying that Eli is the best QB in the league. <u>He ranked him as the #1 Fantasy QB</u>


Rodgers stat line: 45 TDs 6 picks

The fantasy football QB argument doesn't hold water either?Yeah thats great and all, but he hasn't led his team to the Superbowl and won it while being beaten by Eli, who has some nice stats of his own. Eli is the best Quarterback as of right now. What is so hard to understand about that?

B&RWarrior
04-07-2012, 12:13 PM
I didn't go through the entire thread, but did anyone happen to notice that the guy who wrote the article is a Fantasy Football Analyst?

He wasn't saying that Eli is the best QB in the league. <u>He ranked him as the #1 Fantasy QB</u>


Rodgers stat line: 45 TDs 6 picks

The fantasy football QB argument doesn't hold water either?Yeah thats great and all, but he hasn't led his team to the Superbowl and won it while being beaten by Eli, who has some nice stats of his own. Eli is the best Quarterback as of right now. What is so hard to understand about that?


Cocaine is a dangerous drug. :(

Flip Empty
04-07-2012, 01:02 PM
Yeah thats great and all, but he hasn't led his team to the Superbowl
Good point.

http://i.imgur.com/UFLCv.jpg

Drez
04-07-2012, 01:12 PM
I didn't go through the entire thread, but did anyone happen to notice that the guy who wrote the article is a Fantasy Football Analyst?

He wasn't saying that Eli is the best QB in the league. <u>He ranked him as the #1 Fantasy QB</u>


Rodgers stat line: 45 TDs 6 picks

The fantasy football QB argument doesn't hold water either?Yeah thats great and all, but he hasn't led his team to the Superbowl and won it while being beaten by Eli, who has some nice stats of his own. Eli is the best Quarterback as of right now. What is so hard to understand about that?


Cocaine is a dangerous drug. :( Does that mean you've stopped going to your NA meetings?

Dorkasaurus
04-07-2012, 03:20 PM
Wins never have been nor will they ever be an official stat attributed to a QB.

If so, do you guys remember that beatdown last year that Rodgers gave Eli that propelled them to a SB and us to sitting at home watching the playoffs?

Eli has had one great season in his entire career. One.

He has Two Superbowl rings and Two SuperBowl MVPs.... yes TWO

Dorkasaurus
04-07-2012, 03:23 PM
I didn't go through the entire thread, but did anyone happen to notice that the guy who wrote the article is a Fantasy Football Analyst?

He wasn't saying that Eli is the best QB in the league. <u>He ranked him as the #1 Fantasy QB</u>


Fantasy I would put Rodgers and Bress ahead of Eli ...however winning SBs and carrying his team to them Eli is number one right now

JPP
04-07-2012, 03:26 PM
Eli after last season is obviously still going to go on being underrated. Everyone including the media generally agrees he is elite now but I'm not convinced it will last because there are still a lot of haters who won't come to terms with the fact and use bad arguments to detract from his career. haters gonna hate can't change that but we all know and when it is said and done at the end of his career he will have 2 rings(maybe more) on his hand and that is all that matters. Plus it is quite obvious that Eli started putting it all together after his 1st SB and has been a better player ever since some people just like to point to his early career saying it must be his defense and WR's bailing him out. In reality I felt at multiple times throughout the season, and even though it is a team sport, that Eli was dragging our team kicking and screaming to victory. Obviously key plays need to be made by guys not named Eli but he stood in and made every throw with a bad offensive line, had virtually no running game during the season, as well as our defense looked like swiss cheese during our losing streak and in numerous games it looked like we would lose he led us on game winning drives. That is what makes him Elite.

Do I think he is the best QB? No. But is there any other QB I would want? No.

Dorkasaurus
04-07-2012, 03:26 PM
I didn't go through the entire thread, but did anyone happen to notice that the guy who wrote the article is a Fantasy Football Analyst?

He wasn't saying that Eli is the best QB in the league. <u>He ranked him as the #1 Fantasy QB</u>


Rodgers stat line: 45 TDs 6 picks

The fantasy football QB argument doesn't hold water either?

I am going to run with the arguement of active Qbs with two SB MVPs that also holds the record for 4 qrt TDs ...

lawl
04-07-2012, 03:26 PM
Wins never have been nor will they ever be an official stat attributed to a QB.

If so, do you guys remember that beatdown last year that Rodgers gave Eli that propelled them to a SB and us to sitting at home watching the playoffs?

Eli has had one great season in his entire career. One.

He has Two Superbowl rings and Two SuperBowl MVPs.... yes TWO ok?

Neverend
04-07-2012, 03:34 PM
Remember we had a thread like that here last offseason. I said Eli was better than Big Ben because of his pre-snap abilities and understanding of defenses and was hammered afterwards.

Even after his 25 INT season AND his superbowl MVP season, the fact remains.. there is only two QBs I'd take above Eli: Rodgers and Brees. Every other QB in the league, I can't see anything significantly different about them that could influence how they are better than Eli. Even Brady. I'd say Eli is even better than Brady at handling adversity and pressure. If Brady was getting hit the way he did against San Francisco, he'd likely be rattled and jittery

BeatYale
04-07-2012, 03:57 PM
Statistically he obviously isn't the best. There's no arguing that. He had 29 touchdowns this year and 16 interceptions. The offense generated a lot of yards, but didn't finish enough drives with touchdowns and that's partly his fault.

Some of those 16 ints were freak occurrences, like the Cruz play against Seattle and the tipped ball against the Jets etc. While some were miscommunications with the WR, there's 2 that stick out in my mind where MM screwed him over. The remaining ints were bad throws though, something he's been known for throughout his career. He made some of these same types of throws during the playoff game against the 49ers, but was fortunate enough that their DBs were colliding into each other or dropping the ball.

However, he does have a knack for playing great in pressure situations. His NFL record of 15 fourth quarter touchdown passes, and most playoff road victories, and most yards in a single post season (I think), and (tied) most 4th quarter TD's from behind during a Super Bowl, is a strong argument for him being the greatest in the clutch. I don't think you can argue it when he owns those stats.

At this point going forward I'd like to see better td-int ratios from him. Keep the ints south of 10 for once.

well about having "only 29" td passes, what about the buffalo game where Bradshaw had 3 td's from the 1 yd line after the receivers were tackled inches shy of the goal? They happened more than I've ever seen throughout the season, almost every game that would end up happening...

and for the ints, besides the ones u mentioned, some that stick out, the int vs NO where Ballard somehow like assisted in that redzone int, the int at NE where Pascoe ran such a lazy route his defender left him to go to MM and came up with a fluke int, those ints vs Washington at home where MM stopped his route after signaling to Eli he was going to continue it, or where Ware didnt turn inside like he was supposed to...
it may seem like i'm nitpicking, my point is that Eli and this team still have a lot of room for improvement, something Eli has done each and every season, and the offense was still why we won the SB and carried the team for much of the season...

I know in todays age we use stats as the measuring stick and vindication tool, but I use my own eye test, which yeah could be subjective, but I believe I have a good outlook/understanding of football, and i usually can base predictions and info off of...

the one stat I think truly speaks to his play is the yards...with ONE 1rst round draft pick, TWO UDFA, and MM, the offense managed nearly 5000 yards passing regular season, and like 300 yds avg in the postseason...WITH THE LEAGUES WORST RUNNING GAME...

for me, that makes what Eli did EVEN MORE SPECIAL than Rodgers and Brees record breaking seasons...those two qbs got a TON of support from their cast, while Eli, as usual, had to deal with injuries, personnel issues with scheme (not always being in the right area), and defenses keying in solely on him and the passing game bc the run game did nothing...from that perspective, i think its unfair to actually NOT place eli above the rest, especially when you factor in the post season.

Remember, absolutely NO ONE, besides me and a few others, thought this team was even talented enough to win a SB outside the QB position, while Eli proved that he was able to elevate his teammates play to world champions...that doesnt get enough attention imho, every analyst had us as "meddlers", or being average, not talented enough...well when we did win the SB, was their opinions of our offense incorrect all of a sudden? or is it that Eli is just simply head and shoulders above the rest...

for all the accolades Rodgers, Brees, and Peyton get...whens the last time one of them beat Tom Brady 3x in arow, let alone TWICE in the SB???????????Peyton won his SB after other teams handled NE, would Rodgers or Brees of won a SB if NE stood in their way???

Fantasy football: Brees, then Brady
Regular Season: Rodgers, then Brady
FF/Regular season: Peyton, then Brady

Regular season/Postseason: Eli, then Brady

its all about where a person places emphasis, as you mention, clutch...to me, that is THE DEFINING measure of the best QB's, winning on the biggest of stages, against the biggest of odds...well Eli takes that HANDS DOWN.

I agree with you're saying for the most part.

I forgot about the Buffalo game. I actually argued with people on the forum who were discrediting Eli after the Buffalo game thinking the running game was the main reason we won. I think Harooni was spearheading that campaign lol. I think that sorta proved there's a lot of posters around here who don't actually watch the games, but just look at the stats, and stats don't always tell the truth.

Regardless of things that are out of Eli's control, he won't win over the majority crowd until his td-int ratio improves. That ratio is the culprit for him not always getting the credit he deserves with the haters, whether it's rival fans or the 'experts' behind booths.

jjj45
04-07-2012, 05:52 PM
Yeah thats great and all, but he hasn't led his team to the Superbowl
Good point.

http://i.imgur.com/UFLCv.jpgWow.....ya got me......





I meant this year. Obviously.http://boards.giants.com/emoticons/emotion-43.gif

JMFP2
04-08-2012, 12:47 PM
I'm as big an Eli fan as there is, but Eli is not the best QB in this league. I have him ranked 4 1. Brady 2. Rodgers 3. Brees 4. Eli I will say he is the most clutch QB there is though I'm not going to knock your list....frankly, I think Eli, after last season, deserves to be considered among the best in the game. I think the question of who is #1 is very debatable right now....Rodgers, Brees, and Brady all fell back, while Eli took another huge step forward last season. But, touching on your comment about being "the most clutch QB" in the game...... frankly, I can't think of a more important attribute than that. When I think of "clutch" QBs..... Montana Brady Unitas Bart Starr Troy Aikman Peyton When I think of pinball wizards.... Marino Fouts Favre Brees Rivers Frankly, I'd rather have a clutch QB than a guy who will destroy some mediocre team at home in the regular season, but can't win in snowflakes. I will say this.....the "2nd Tier" argument is taking a dirt nap now....2 Time SB MVP...... people that argue Eli is still a "2nd Tier QB" need to come up with some new material. Eli being #1 is very debatable now. However, I disagree that Rodgers, Brady, and Brees took steps back. It's more that Eli took huge strides forward.</P>


Rodgers took a step back.....if he were as "head and shoulder" above everyone but Brees, he would have destroyed the Giants.</P>


Brees took a step back.....if he were he should have done to the 49ers what Rodgers was supposed to do to the Giants.</P>


Brady took a step back.....2nd Super Bowl loss, once again to Eli.</P>


Eli took a step forward... outplayed Rodgers and Brady to win a 2nd Super Bowl.</P>

JMFP2
04-08-2012, 12:56 PM
Wins never have been nor will they ever be an official stat attributed to a QB. If so, do you guys remember that beatdown last year that Rodgers gave Eli that propelled them to a SB and us to sitting at home watching the playoffs? Eli has had one great season in his entire career. One.</P>


Winnings games arewhat you draft a QBto do.....it's far more important than TDs and passing yards.</P>


As far as "one great season his entire career"....one more time:</P>


3000+ yards..... 7 consecutive seasons </P>


20+ TDs..... 7 consecutive seasons</P>


4000+ yards.... 3 consecutive seasons</P>


2 Super Bowl Championships</P>


27579 career passing yards (in8seasons, including rookie year; that's 3447 yards averaged per season).</P>


Honestly, by virtually any critera, your "one great season" commentis flawed......unless the new measuring stick for "great seasons" is 4900+ yards.</P>


</P>

JMFP2
04-08-2012, 01:28 PM
I didn't go through the entire thread, but did anyone happen to notice that the guy who wrote the article is a Fantasy Football Analyst?

He wasn't saying that Eli is the best QB in the league. <U>He ranked him as the #1 Fantasy QB</U>
</P>


</P>


The guy writes a fantasy column for NFL.com, but also contrbutes other articles.</P>


This is not a fantasy article....it's an opinion piece on who he thinks the best QB going into 2012 is.</P>


If you look at his comments on every QB, alot of it relates to winning playoff games....and that's a worthless stat in a fantasy context.</P>

B&RWarrior
04-08-2012, 01:37 PM
Wins never have been nor will they ever be an official stat attributed to a QB. If so, do you guys remember that beatdown last year that Rodgers gave Eli that propelled them to a SB and us to sitting at home watching the playoffs? Eli has had one great season in his entire career. One.</P>


Winnings games are*what you draft a QB*to do.....it's far more important than TDs and passing yards.</P>


As far as "one great season his entire career"....one more time:</P>


3000+ yards..... 7 consecutive seasons </P>


20+ TDs..... 7 consecutive seasons</P>


4000+ yards.... 3 consecutive seasons</P>


2 Super Bowl Championships</P>


27579 career passing yards (in*8*seasons, including rookie year; that's 3447 yards averaged per season).</P>


Honestly, by virtually any critera, your "one great season" comment*is flawed......unless the new measuring stick for "great seasons" is 4900+ yards.</P>


*</P>

Football is the ultimate team sport. No one player, not even a QB, will ever be the sole reason for a win. Eli didn't beat Brady in the SB and Rodgers didn't beat Eli in the playoffs 2 years ago. The Giants TEAM beat the Pats TEAM and the Packers TEAM beat the Giants TEAM.

A QBs role is defined by the system he plays in and the effectiveness of the defense he plays along side. Some QBs are more "game managers" than "play makers". Every player you draft with the thought that he will help you win. QB's like head coaches, get too much credit and too much blame for wins and losses.

I agree last year was Eli's one "great" year. Outside of the numbers he managed to win a SB with a success formula based on a prolific passing game. The running game was almost nonexistent. The defense for a large part of the year was subpar. Every other year besides 2011 Eli put up less impressive stats with a better running game and a pretty strong defense,
Eli's had a lot of good seasons and one great season- last year.

buffyblue
04-08-2012, 02:48 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

buffyblue
04-08-2012, 02:52 PM
*meant to write "the greatest QB in the history of our team" but fat fingered my phone again.

giantsfan420
04-08-2012, 03:09 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

excellent post.

if people deem eli only having one great season based on his play last season, then there's only been 6 great seasons by a QB in NFL history as Eli threw for the 6th most yards...

what really is happening is eli has spoiled some fans and they up how they judge a qb based on how eli spoiled them. 4k yards is a GREAT season, around 30 TDs is a GREAT season. Leading the team to the playoffs is a GREAT season.

we have now seen perhaps the two greatest playoff performances in NFL HISTORY and they both belong to Eli...throwing ONE int against playoff caliber teams whil throwing for what, 10 tds in each run is AMAZING.

Not to mention where he plays, the biggest media capital in the world, and the conditions he plays in, the swirling winds of East Rutherford, Eli flat out has spoiled a lot of fans.

Bottom line, down 4 with 2 minutes to go, Eli is the ABSOLUTE BEST QB YOU COULD ASK FOR, perhaps in NFL HISTORY. He's simply amazing, oh, and guess what...HE STILL HASNT EVEN REACHED HIS CEILING. Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Peyton; these guys have maxed out their potential. Eli hasnt even come close....

Granted, I've been saying this day would come for years, and Im not one to say I told you so, but I did tell everyone so...make no mistake, this time next year, there will be no way people can say anything about Eli besides he's the best QB in the NFL, and is making a push to be considered the greatest of all time...thats how serious his talent and work ethic is...

Peytons senior year yearbook, under his senior year picture, he wrote "Watch out for Eli, he'll be even better than I was" (not verbatim but thats what he meant)

The thing that makes me a lil angry is Plex delayed Eli's development by 2-3 years bc after the 07 SB, Eli was DOMINANT in 08, only 10 ints while making every stick throw possible. Once he shot himself, Eli and the offense had to virtually start over again with new WR's. Now that we have Nicks and Cruz we need to lock both up for the rest of Elis career. Yes he makes his WR's, but those two feed off of Eli perfectly and its now Eli's offense. If we have to have a sort of revolving door at the #3 WR thats ok as long as we keep Nicks and Cruz...

When Eli's career is all said and done, I believe he will be among the top of every major categorical ranking for the QB position...HE'S STILL IMPROVING, and that SCARES THE **** OUT OF THE REST OF THE NFL...

Flip Empty
04-08-2012, 03:28 PM
Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.
Hmm, I'll give you Rodgers, but it could be argued that Brees has made his receivers as well.

A large, lumbering possession receiver like Marques Colston (also a 7th round pick) would've struggled early on with a lesser QB, yet with Brees throwing to him he's become an excellent #1.
Beyond Colston, Brees has made a star of slot-sized Lance Moore (undrafted).
Guys like Robert Meachem (1st rounds) and Devery Henderson (2nd round) don't feature so prominently in their offense.

I doubt any other QB would be able to run the Saints' offense like Brees can, much like I doubt any other QB could run the Giants'offense like Eli.

buffyblue
04-08-2012, 03:33 PM
If Eli Manning throws for 4300 yards next season and only 25 TDs folks are going to state "you see he didn't have a great year like 2011, I told you so." Unreal how spoiled people are.

I am glad that you brought up the elementary because that is something that I think seperates Eli Manning, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers from Drew Brees. They play in the wind and Drew Brees plays at least 9 games a season in a dome(8 in New Orleans and one in the Georgia Dome).

gmen0820
04-08-2012, 03:33 PM
The thing that makes me a lil angry is Plex delayed Eli's development by 2-3 years bc after the 07 SB, Eli was DOMINANT in 08, only 10 ints while making every stick throw possible. Once he shot himself, Eli and the offense had to virtually start over again with new WR's. Now that we have Nicks and Cruz we need to lock both up for the rest of Elis career. Yes he makes his WR's, but those two feed off of Eli perfectly and its now Eli's offense. If we have to have a sort of revolving door at the #3 WR thats ok as long as we keep Nicks and Cruz..Speaks a lot to Reese that he was able to build a juggernaut in 2008, then have it crash, and rebuild it again. Great point.

Though I do think Eli has become what he has because of that incident. He took on a way larger role, and has really carried the team in the years since.

Ntegrase96
04-08-2012, 04:09 PM
Shouldn't all of this be in red?




why should it be?

Maybe we should be discussing the greatness of postseason romo?

http://c553622.r22.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/tony-romo-crying.jpg

Because typically your posts are pretty fair and you're a knowledgable fan, and the other post just seemed... off.

Really? Diverting a conversation about Eli being the best to 'postseason Romo'. Tell me, what does that have to do with this conversation, seeing how absolutely no one is comparing Romo to Eli? That's a typical, "I've got nothing" response you'd find on Rant and Rave over at EMB.

You're better than that, Slip.

Ntegrase96
04-08-2012, 04:17 PM
Shouldn't all of this be in red?




why should it be?

Maybe we should be discussing the greatness of postseason romo?

http://c553622.r22.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/tony-romo-crying.jpg

lol well played.

and to me, saying eli is #1 at being clutch but not #1 overall is like saying snapple tastes the best but the #1 iced tea is Lipton bc it has better color. a lame analogy, but my point is u judge qb's by their clutchness, its like the most important characteristic of a QB and imo, should be the main gauge of how QB''s are graded...using a different scale to grade QB's makes no sense to me.

and theres no way a Dallas fan is ever going to fully give Eli the credit he deserves, Eli's one of the main reasons Dallas sucks and hasnt been a factor in winning championships...theres no way they can be fair in ranking eli bc if they were, theyd have to recognize Romo is like the 14th best qb

Being the most clutch QB won't get you anywhere if the team around you is lacking. Case in point, 2008, 2009, and the 2010 Giants.

I'll give Eli the credit he deserves, and he was a tremendous part of the Giants superbowl run last year. But I'll also give credit to the other guys that made it happen. Like Cruz, Nicks, and most of all the big guy JPP.

Again, Eli was a big part of and he deserves a ton of credit. But just because Eli had his best year last year and the Giants won the superbowl, does NOT mean he's the best QB in the NFC. Does that make sense?

It's the same reason Troy Aikman wasn't the best QB in the early 90s. Was he a top QB? Yeah. Was he the best? Absolutely not.

And for a guy who really hasn't been great for the majority of his career, it's going to take time for people to change their minds concerning Eli because for 75% of his career, Eli has been a bus driver, and 100% of his career he's had turnover problems.

Has nothing to do with being a Dallas fan. Go to any other forum except this one and you're going to get the same answer. Eli may be a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

IamGiantsfan
04-08-2012, 04:23 PM
100% of his career he's had turnover problems.

Has nothing to do with being a Dallas fan. Go to any other forum except this one and you're going to get the same answer. Eli may be a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.
2008 season he only had 10 ints :D

B&RWarrior
04-08-2012, 04:23 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

excellent post.

if people deem eli only having one great season based on his play last season, then there's only been 6 great seasons by a QB in NFL history as Eli threw for the 6th most yards...

what really is happening is eli has spoiled some fans and they up how they judge a qb based on how eli spoiled them. 4k yards is a GREAT season, around 30 TDs is a GREAT season. Leading the team to the playoffs is a GREAT season.

we have now seen perhaps the two greatest playoff performances in NFL HISTORY and they both belong to Eli...throwing ONE int against playoff caliber teams whil throwing for what, 10 tds in each run is AMAZING.

Not to mention where he plays, the biggest media capital in the world, and the conditions he plays in, the swirling winds of East Rutherford, Eli flat out has spoiled a lot of fans.

Bottom line, down 4 with 2 minutes to go, Eli is the ABSOLUTE BEST QB YOU COULD ASK FOR, perhaps in NFL HISTORY. He's simply amazing, oh, and guess what...HE STILL HASNT EVEN REACHED HIS CEILING. Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Peyton; these guys have maxed out their potential. Eli hasnt even come close....

Granted, I've been saying this day would come for years, and Im not one to say I told you so, but I did tell everyone so...make no mistake, this time next year, there will be no way people can say anything about Eli besides he's the best QB in the NFL, and is making a push to be considered the greatest of all time...thats how serious his talent and work ethic is...

Peytons senior year yearbook, under his senior year picture, he wrote "Watch out for Eli, he'll be even better than I was" (not verbatim but thats what he meant)

The thing that makes me a lil angry is Plex delayed Eli's development by 2-3 years bc after the 07 SB, Eli was DOMINANT in 08, only 10 ints while making every stick throw possible. Once he shot himself, Eli and the offense had to virtually start over again with new WR's. Now that we have Nicks and Cruz we need to lock both up for the rest of Elis career. Yes he makes his WR's, but those two feed off of Eli perfectly and its now Eli's offense. If we have to have a sort of revolving door at the #3 WR thats ok as long as we keep Nicks and Cruz...

When Eli's career is all said and done, I believe he will be among the top of every major categorical ranking for the QB position...HE'S STILL IMPROVING, and that SCARES THE **** OUT OF THE REST OF THE NFL...

We agree that all Giants fans should be proud to have Eli as a QB. The rest of this is pure BULLOX!

"making a push to be considered the greatest of all time...", PUMP YO BREAKS!! LOL! Eli bumaye! Eli bumaye!

Rodgers has "maxed out" his potential after season 4 while Eli hasn't "reached his ceiling" after 8 seasons. What you talkin' about Willis?

The argument that Eli put those slackers like Plax, Boss, Strahan, Tuck, JPP, and Osi on his back and willed us to 2 SB victories is what I hope to be a unique perspective... I'm sorry I'm trying to blunt the blow here. Let's keep it real. These may be two of the biggest homer post based on 'wind pies and fried ice'- aka NADA!

You guys did make me laugh though.

Ntegrase96
04-08-2012, 04:30 PM
100% of his career he's had turnover problems.

Has nothing to do with being a Dallas fan. Go to any other forum except this one and you're going to get the same answer. Eli may be a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.
2008 season he only had 10 ints :D

Forgot about 2008. I thought he played that role really well. The year with the three headed monster and Eli keeping defenses honest by throwing downfield every once in a while.

Not saying he doesn't play his role well now or anything.

If I remember right he only had 12 turnovers that year. That was probably the best team he had until Plax shot himself.

Jon6777
04-08-2012, 04:30 PM
I really don't understand why people think Rodgers is so godly. His numbers are impressive, but he rode the pine for 4 years. Eli was thrown to the wolves early in his career. Career statistics really aren't a good judgement of a qb. Playing at your best in clutch situations is what matters most.

Ntegrase96
04-08-2012, 04:42 PM
I really don't understand why people think Rodgers is so godly. His numbers are impressive, but he rode the pine for 4 years. Eli was thrown to the wolves early in his career. Career statistics really aren't a good judgement of a qb. Playing at your best in clutch situations is what matters most.

And Rodgers hasn't played his best in clutch situations? Did you not see how many plays he made against you guys this year in the playoffs? Or how about to end the game in the regular season? Rodgers was pretty much the only bright spot on the packers in the playoffs. Remember him creating multiple first downs with his legs when plays broke down?

Riding the pine behind the all time passing yards leader isn't an insult. He rode the bench behind Brett Favre, who was never really injured and had god status in GB.

Rodgers proved that he was ready when Favre was knocked out of the Dallas game in 2007 with both teams were fighting for first place. If it weren't for the Dallas offense continuing to score (they were ahead when Rodgers came in) then Rodgers would most likely have led a comeback. He certainly hurt that Dallas team.

Think about it like this. Future hall of famer Brett Favre led the Packers to the number 2 seed in the NFC with a 13-3 record. But they dumped him in favor of Aaron Rodgers.

Flip Empty
04-08-2012, 04:49 PM
I really don't understand why people think Rodgers is so godly. His numbers are impressive, but he rode the pine for 4 years. Eli was thrown to the wolves early in his career. Career statistics really aren't a good judgement of a qb. Playing at your best in clutch situations is what matters most.
Eli was drafted to be thrown to the wolves. QBs drafted first overall typically aren't expected to hold a clipboard for a few years.
Rodgers was drafted to replace the Packers' incumbent when necessary. He did that and promptly took the team to a Super Bowl. He's earned the adulation he receives.

Delicreep
04-08-2012, 05:03 PM
I almost never post in the off season...but after reading the article and I had to check in to crack an egg of knowledge on some heads: Eli is the king because he should be.

Who had better year than he did?

Brees and Rodgers but up sick numbers in the regular season, but when they faced stout defenses in the post season, they could not get it done.

Rodgers was particularly bad.

Brady threw 2 consecutive bad passes that honestly would have won them a SB if they were decent, not to mention getting to that game was a fluke in my opinion. Lets not forget the safe either.

Matty ice, Stafford? Please!

Eli was the only qb in the league to make the plays that needed to be made for the regular season and post season-period.

And like the g men, he is the unchallenged king until the first snap of the regular season.

Drez
04-08-2012, 05:16 PM
Rodgers was drafted to replace the Packers' incumbent when necessary. He did that and promptly took the team to a Super Bowl. He's earned the adulation he receives.</P>


Promptly... asin 3 years. He missed the playoffs his first year as a starter, lost to Arizona in the playoffs his second, and then won it in his 3rd as a starter, which was his 6th or 7th in the league.</P>


Despite Rodgers being drafted towards the bottom of the first (I want to say he went 24th, but don't feel like looking it up right now), he was the second QB taken. Many thought he should have gone 1st instead of Alex Smith. He wasn't drafted as a project QB that needed time to develop.</P>


Eli won his first SB in his 3rd full season as a starter, too,which happened to be his 4th in the league. Looks to me Eli won a SB just as promptly, or even more so, than Rodgers.</P>

gmen46
04-08-2012, 05:34 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

Well said. And all true.

It's been my experience that, in most things, people tend to see what they WANT to see, hear what they WANT to hear, believe what they WANT to believe.

It is extremely difficult for most to let go of long-cherished beliefs, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Reality can be damned inconvenient at times, can't it?

As a corollary to what you've stated here, I find it of particular note that since Eli entered the league in 2004, there have been 3 AFC teams that have appeared in multiple Super Bowls while only 1 NFC team has.

And of those 4 teams only the Steelers and the Giants have actually WON multiple Super Bowls in that same 8 year period.

Just as intriguing to me, most of the "Eli deniers"--or Eli qualifiers, or Eli doubters, or Eli equivicaters-- seem to cling to the idea that the significance of my SB point involves the idea that the 3 AFC teams appeared in multiple Super Bowls due in large part to WHO the QB is for those teams, yet the Giants SB trophies were won IN SPITE of Eli, because after all, football is a team sport, isn't it? (That "football is a team sport" concept seems to be more true when opining about Eli's abilities and contributions, than it is for the other QBs, for some mysterious and unexplained reason).

And while it can be said that there have been many previous Eli-doubters who have turned a corner in their opinions of Eli after his 2011 season and SB XLVI, it can also be said many of these observers insist upon attributing his success to an aberration--this past season as his "one great season", for example--rather than to the fact that 2011 was a natural and inevitable result of Eli's unique continuous 8 year progress as a top tier pro QB.

giantsfan420
04-08-2012, 05:51 PM
100% of his career he's had turnover problems.

Has nothing to do with being a Dallas fan. Go to any other forum except this one and you're going to get the same answer. Eli may be a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.
2008 season he only had 10 ints :D

Forgot about 2008. I thought he played that role really well. The year with the three headed monster and Eli keeping defenses honest by throwing downfield every once in a while.

Not saying he doesn't play his role well now or anything.

If I remember right he only had 12 turnovers that year. That was probably the best team he had until Plax shot himself.

huh? 2008-10 ints, 2009-14 ints 2011-16 ints he's only had 2 or 3 seasons of 16 or more ints...the turnover machine is frankly not true. in 2007 yes, 20 ints and 2010 yes 25 ints, other than that ints arent a concern imho.

plus, eli makes throws into such tight windows so he is going to have higher int numbers than QB's who cannot make those stick throws. this past season eli put the ball into the toughest, smallest, tightest windows continually. usually with the game/season on the line...

giantsfan420
04-08-2012, 05:53 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

Well said. And all true.

It's been my experience that, in most things, people tend to see what they WANT to see, hear what they WANT to hear, believe what they WANT to believe.

It is extremely difficult for most to let go of long-cherished beliefs, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Reality can be damned inconvenient at times, can't it?

As a corollary to what you've stated here, I find it of particular note that since Eli entered the league in 2004, there have been 3 AFC teams that have appeared in multiple Super Bowls while only 1 NFC team has.

And of those 4 teams only the Steelers and the Giants have actually WON multiple Super Bowls in that same 8 year period.

Just as intriguing to me, most of the "Eli deniers"--or Eli qualifiers, or Eli doubters, or Eli equivicaters-- seem to cling to the idea that the significance of my SB point involves the idea that the 3 AFC teams appeared in multiple Super Bowls due in large part to WHO the QB is for those teams, yet the Giants SB trophies were won IN SPITE of Eli, because after all, football is a team sport, isn't it? (That "football is a team sport" concept seems to be more true when opining about Eli's abilities and contributions, than it is for the other QBs, for some mysterious and unexplained reason).

And while it can be said that there have been many previous Eli-doubters who have turned a corner in their opinions of Eli after his 2011 season and SB XLVI, it can also be said many of these observers insist upon attributing his success to an aberration--this past season as his "one great season", for example--rather than to the fact that 2011 was a natural and inevitable result of Eli's unique continuous 8 year progress as a top tier pro QB.

well said. and i like ur point about his 8 yr progression. eli will continue to improve season after season. his numbers next year are going to be insane

B&RWarrior
04-08-2012, 06:34 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

Well said. And all true.

It's been my experience that, in most things, people tend to see what they WANT to see, hear what they WANT to hear, believe what they WANT to believe.

It is extremely difficult for most to let go of long-cherished beliefs, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Reality can be damned inconvenient at times, can't it?

As a corollary to what you've stated here, I find it of particular note that since Eli entered the league in 2004, there have been 3 AFC teams that have appeared in multiple Super Bowls while only 1 NFC team has.

And of those 4 teams only the Steelers and the Giants have actually WON multiple Super Bowls in that same 8 year period.

Just as intriguing to me, most of the "Eli deniers"--or Eli qualifiers, or Eli doubters, or Eli equivicaters-- seem to cling to the idea that the significance of my SB point involves the idea that the 3 AFC teams appeared in multiple Super Bowls due in large part to WHO the QB is for those teams, yet the Giants SB trophies were won IN SPITE of Eli, because after all, football is a team sport, isn't it? (That "football is a team sport" concept seems to be more true when opining about Eli's abilities and contributions, than it is for the other QBs, for some mysterious and unexplained reason).

And while it can be said that there have been many previous Eli-doubters who have turned a corner in their opinions of Eli after his 2011 season and SB XLVI, it can also be said many of these observers insist upon attributing his success to an aberration--this past season as his "one great season", for example--rather than to the fact that 2011 was a natural and inevitable result of Eli's unique continuous 8 year progress as a top tier pro QB.

Did I misread something? This is my favorite part of your post, "Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............"

I hate to give the answers away. I like people to connect the dots themselves. With that in mind, I pose some interesting questions.

Who did Aaron Rodgers replace as a starter?

Who did Kurt Warner replace as a quaterback?

Could the play of the incumbent QB have some effect on how fast a newly drafted QB ascends to the role of starter?

Who had a clearer path to becoming the starter when drafted Eli or Aaron Rodgers?

I'm one of those people that clearly think SB victories are the result of team effort more than any individual effort. Eli was definitely one of the largest contributors to our SB runs but to say that he put the team on his back in 2007 is just wrong and an insult to Strahan and that ferocious D line that silenced a Goliath like Pats offense that year.

Facts- Eli is a good QB. He is not better than his brother before the neck injury and in the past 4 years he has not been better than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, but people will see what they WANT to see.

Flip Empty
04-08-2012, 06:39 PM
Rodgers was drafted to replace the Packers' incumbent when necessary. He did that and promptly took the team to a Super Bowl. He's earned the adulation he receives.</P>


Promptly... as in 3 years. He missed the playoffs his first year as a starter, lost to Arizona in the playoffs his second, and then won it in his 3rd as a starter, which was his 6th or 7th in the league.</P>


Despite Rodgers being drafted towards the bottom of the first (I want to say he went 24th, but don't feel like looking it up right now), he was the second QB taken. Many thought he should have gone 1st instead of Alex Smith. He wasn't drafted as a project QB that needed time to develop.</P>


Eli won his first SB in his 3rd full season as a starter, too, which happened to be his 4th in the league. Looks to me Eli won a SB just as promptly, or even more so, than Rodgers.</P>
There's a massive gulf in expectation between a quarterback taken first overall and a quarterback taken anywhere else in the draft. A QB taken at #1 is expected to change a franchise. The fact that Eli is the brother of one of the greatest to ever play the position only enhanced that.

buffyblue
04-08-2012, 06:47 PM
There is no way that anyone can dispute that Eli Manning has been the main reason we have won the last two SuperBowls we appeared in. In SuperBowl XLII, our defense collapsed and lost the lead that Eli Manning gave the NY Giants in 4th quarter. Eli Manning took us down thefield again and scored on one of the top defenses in the league.

It is just amazing how folks are going to just call us "homers" and ***** and moan because we call it like we see it and give Eli Manning his due. I am surprised R&R has any trimester to type with all the time he spends with Aaron Rodgers' tool placed in his mouth.

B&RWarrior
04-08-2012, 07:11 PM
There is no way that anyone can dispute that Eli Manning has been the main reason we have won the last two SuperBowls we appeared in. In SuperBowl XLII, our defense collapsed and lost the lead that Eli Manning gave the NY Giants in 4th quarter. Eli Manning took us down thefield again and scored on one of the top defenses in the league.

It is just amazing how folks are going to just call us "homers" and ***** and moan because we call it like we see it and give Eli Manning his due. I am surprised R&R has any trimester to type with all the time he spends with Aaron Rodgers' tool placed in his mouth.

Ahhhhh, and when a man can't find fault in the logic well then it's time for insults.

Lets get back to the facts shall we. In the 2007 SB the NYG defense held N.E.- which at that time was the No. 1 offense of ALL TIME, not just for that year- to 14 points. Yet your description of a "defensive collapse" that Eli overcame in the SB paint a very different picture.

Steve Young and Boomer Esaison have agreed with me in my position that Rodgers play right now is something to be in awe of. I think I stand in good company with the agreement of two HOF QBs and countless other players, analyst, and also members of the sports media that voted him MVP this year 48 votes to 2 votes for (Brees)... but then again there is your powerful opinion.

I expect more insults because my rational is sound.

Flip Empty
04-08-2012, 07:22 PM
I don't even know why this is an argument. Both guys are damn good QBs.

I don't want any other guy quarterbacking the Giants and I'm sure Packers fans don't want anyone but Rodgers quarterbacking their team.

buffyblue
04-08-2012, 07:34 PM
Ahhhh it figures that the person that started with the insults is the one that cries about it when they are directed at her.

Not surprising that you are going to use an analyst like Steve Young that once claimed "Mike Vick may be the best QB ever" to fortify your position.

Nice how in stating your case that NY Giants defense held the number one offense to 14 points that you failed to state that Eli Manning led NY Giants offense to score 17 points against a much better defense than the NY Giants did.

You can ***** and moal

buffyblue
04-08-2012, 07:43 PM
*Eli Manning brought his team down the field to score against a much better defense than the NY Giants had after his own defense gave up the lead he have them*

***** and moan all you want and quote all the stats you want. The biggest reason NY Giants advanced and Green Bay Packers didn't last postseason was because Eli Manning was the better QB.

Ntegrase96
04-08-2012, 08:39 PM
100% of his career he's had turnover problems.

Has nothing to do with being a Dallas fan. Go to any other forum except this one and you're going to get the same answer. Eli may be a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.
2008 season he only had 10 ints :D

Forgot about 2008. I thought he played that role really well. The year with the three headed monster and Eli keeping defenses honest by throwing downfield every once in a while.

Not saying he doesn't play his role well now or anything.

If I remember right he only had 12 turnovers that year. That was probably the best team he had until Plax shot himself.

huh? 2008-10 ints, 2009-14 ints 2011-16 ints he's only had 2 or 3 seasons of 16 or more ints...the turnover machine is frankly not true. in 2007 yes, 20 ints and 2010 yes 25 ints, other than that ints arent a concern imho.

plus, eli makes throws into such tight windows so he is going to have higher int numbers than QB's who cannot make those stick throws. this past season eli put the ball into the toughest, smallest, tightest windows continually. usually with the game/season on the line...

Yeah, someone else reminded me of 2008 when he only had the 12 turnover season. Which was a good season for him as far as not committing many turnovers went. He played his role well that year and was pretty good.

But quarterbacks turnover the ball more than just throwing picks, and in the last two seasons he's had 50 of them. Five. Zero.

year by year for Eli, starting from 2005

2005: 19
2006: 20
2007: 27
2008: 12... by far his best year. Kudos to him
2009: 22
2010: 30
2011: 20

And you've got to be kidding. Turnovers aren't a concern? Okay maybe not for you since your team just won the superbowl, but as far as judging your quarterback's play and trying to rate it among the top tier guys, I think it clearly matters.

giantsfan420
04-08-2012, 08:47 PM
100% of his career he's had turnover problems.

Has nothing to do with being a Dallas fan. Go to any other forum except this one and you're going to get the same answer. Eli may be a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.
2008 season he only had 10 ints :D

Forgot about 2008. I thought he played that role really well. The year with the three headed monster and Eli keeping defenses honest by throwing downfield every once in a while.

Not saying he doesn't play his role well now or anything.

If I remember right he only had 12 turnovers that year. That was probably the best team he had until Plax shot himself.

huh? 2008-10 ints, 2009-14 ints 2011-16 ints he's only had 2 or 3 seasons of 16 or more ints...the turnover machine is frankly not true. in 2007 yes, 20 ints and 2010 yes 25 ints, other than that ints arent a concern imho.

plus, eli makes throws into such tight windows so he is going to have higher int numbers than QB's who cannot make those stick throws. this past season eli put the ball into the toughest, smallest, tightest windows continually. usually with the game/season on the line...

Yeah, someone else reminded me of 2008 when he only had the 12 turnover season. Which was a good season for him as far as not committing many turnovers went. He played his role well that year and was pretty good.

But quarterbacks turnover the ball more than just throwing picks, and in the last two seasons he's had 50 of them. Five. Zero.

year by year for Eli, starting from 2005

2005: 19
2006: 20
2007: 27
2008: 12... by far his best year. Kudos to him
2009: 22
2010: 30
2011: 20

And you've got to be kidding. Turnovers aren't a concern? Okay maybe not for you since your team just won the superbowl, but as far as judging your quarterback's play and trying to rate it among the top tier guys, I think it clearly matters.

lol, ur going to use fumbles against a QB?? How dare Eli allow his LT to get beat so he gets blindsided and fumbles....ints i put on the QB, QB fumbles I put on the OL protection unless its like Romo fumbling the fg snap...its all good you can think whatever you'd like. ok to you eli is top 5 but not the best, fine. to me, Eli is the best QB right now and I have more than enough sufficient evidence to back my claim....

Ntegrase96
04-08-2012, 09:01 PM
lol, ur going to use fumbles against a QB?? How dare Eli allow his LT to get beat so he gets blindsided and fumbles....ints i put on the QB, QB fumbles I put on the OL protection unless its like Romo fumbling the fg snap...its all good you can think whatever you'd like. ok to you eli is top 5 but not the best, fine. to me, Eli is the best QB right now and I have more than enough sufficient evidence to back my claim....

No, you've highlighted Eli's positives and seemingly forgotten his negatives. But whatever. You're happy with him and so are many others in Giants nation, as you should be. And I like a lot of the fans here, so good for Giants fans; including you.

B&RWarrior
04-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Ahhhh it figures that the person that started with the insults is the one that cries about it when they are directed at her.

Not surprising that you are going to use an analyst like Steve Young that once claimed "Mike Vick may be the best QB ever" to fortify your position.

Nice how in stating your case that NY Giants defense held the number one offense to 14 points that you failed to state that Eli Manning led NY Giants offense to score 17 points against a much better defense than the NY Giants did.

You can ***** and moal

First off I'm a guy. The gender symbol by the username should have been the first clue.

"Homer" was not meant as insult but as a statement of fact. You have to be ignoring the facts to state Eli is the best QB in the league or that he is on track to be the best QB ever based on one "great" year. I love my Giants too but tend to see things for what they are not what I wish they were.

If your going to claim Eli is the best give me something to work with. Watch the 2007 game again or reread some recaps. We were a 13.5 pt underdog. Do you remember how Brady reacted in thepress conference when he was told Plax said they would score 17 pts, he laughed. The defense was the MVP. Of course you have to give the award to one player, but the defense made it possible for the Giants to take the lead with one great drive by playing great D all game long.

We kicked Brady's #@# all game long. Eli did not put that team on his back. He was a major part of our success though.

Forget about anybody else or even the stats?

Does Eli have the best deep ball? NO Brady, Rodgers both have better deep balls.

Does Eli have the best accuracy? NO Rodgers, Brady both more accurate

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers? NO Brady is the best at this. Giants have arguably the best WR duo in the league. Plax and Toomer weren't slouches either.

Can Eli make plays with his legs? NO, multiple QBs can Rodgers, Vick, even Brees to name a few.

Is Eli the most clutch QB? Yes, It can be argued Brady is just as clutch. I say Eli is the most clutch QB. Rodgers has not played bad key moments in his young career.

Is Eli the best game manager? NO, P. Manning. followed by Brady.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions? NO, Rodgers, P. Manning, Brady, Brees all better.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems? NO, Brees was succesful with the Chargers and in the NO. Brady also has had different offensive coordinators and remained consistently successful.

These are facts. I consider Rodgers the best because he is the most accurate, he arguably has the best deep ball, he's the best at going through his progressions, and he can make plays with his legs. He's not more clutch than Eli and they both have talented receiver cores. There is nothing Eli does poorly except running, it's that he doesn't do some key things as well as the other QBs listed.

Joe Morrison
04-08-2012, 09:39 PM
When it comes to the top 5 they are basically interchangeable, Brees, Rodgers and Brady all have the bigger #'s on paper but Eli and Ben get the job done in crunch time.</P>


So let the battle begin.</P>

gmen46
04-08-2012, 09:59 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

Well said. And all true.

It's been my experience that, in most things, people tend to see what they WANT to see, hear what they WANT to hear, believe what they WANT to believe.

It is extremely difficult for most to let go of long-cherished beliefs, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Reality can be damned inconvenient at times, can't it?

As a corollary to what you've stated here, I find it of particular note that since Eli entered the league in 2004, there have been 3 AFC teams that have appeared in multiple Super Bowls while only 1 NFC team has.

And of those 4 teams only the Steelers and the Giants have actually WON multiple Super Bowls in that same 8 year period.

Just as intriguing to me, most of the "Eli deniers"--or Eli qualifiers, or Eli doubters, or Eli equivicaters-- seem to cling to the idea that the significance of my SB point involves the idea that the 3 AFC teams appeared in multiple Super Bowls due in large part to WHO the QB is for those teams, yet the Giants SB trophies were won IN SPITE of Eli, because after all, football is a team sport, isn't it? (That "football is a team sport" concept seems to be more true when opining about Eli's abilities and contributions, than it is for the other QBs, for some mysterious and unexplained reason).

And while it can be said that there have been many previous Eli-doubters who have turned a corner in their opinions of Eli after his 2011 season and SB XLVI, it can also be said many of these observers insist upon attributing his success to an aberration--this past season as his "one great season", for example--rather than to the fact that 2011 was a natural and inevitable result of Eli's unique continuous 8 year progress as a top tier pro QB.

Did I misread something? This is my favorite part of your post, "Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............"

I hate to give the answers away. I like people to connect the dots themselves. With that in mind, I pose some interesting questions.

Who did Aaron Rodgers replace as a starter?

Who did Kurt Warner replace as a quaterback?

Could the play of the incumbent QB have some effect on how fast a newly drafted QB ascends to the role of starter?

Who had a clearer path to becoming the starter when drafted Eli or Aaron Rodgers?

I'm one of those people that clearly think SB victories are the result of team effort more than any individual effort. Eli was definitely one of the largest contributors to our SB runs but to say that he put the team on his back in 2007 is just wrong and an insult to Strahan and that ferocious D line that silenced a Goliath like Pats offense that year.

Facts- Eli is a good QB. He is not better than his brother before the neck injury and in the past 4 years he has not been better than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, but people will see what they WANT to see.

Yes, actually, you did misread something. You "misread" my entire post.

Your quote of (supposedly) me, was not a quote of anything I said. At all.

I suppose because I praised the poster I responded to with a "well said", you project any phrase he wrote as being written by me.

Convoluted and convenient for your ranting purposes, but not very well thought out. And definitely inaccurate.

And nowhere have I ever stated that Eli was better in the past 4 years than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, although I WOULD argue that he has most definitely risen to their level over that time period.

To not recognize that Eli, a QB of a team that has won--in no small part due to his performance each game-- two Super Bowls in the past 5 years, to not recognize he is now at least on the level of 2 QBs who have won only 1 SBs each, along with Brady who has been out performed in his last 2 SBs by Eli, is not only being irrationally pig headed, but it could be argued is being completely ignorant.

And while I personally have never made the argument that Eli is "the best QB in the NFL", the NFL writer (Jason Smith?) whose recent QB ranking provoked this thread, has made a compelling case for why HE ranks Eli #1 RIGHT NOW. It's his opinion, but he backs it with credible reasoning, whether you choose to agree or not.

And, as I said before, I always find it interesting that in ALL discussions on this board concerning opinions of Eli and his standing among his QB peers, the concept of "football is a team sport" is so often used in denying or diminishing many of Eli's accomplishments, but that "team sport" concept seems never to be applied to the other QBs in the discussion, as you did, again, here.

The persistent insistence, by people of your persuasion, to anyone who dares to say Eli had a critical role in winning both SBs as being an automatic "insult" to Strahan or Tuck or anyone else in those games is absurd and a result of poor thought processes.

And by the way, to praise the 07 Giants defense as being "ferocious" and the primary reason for our in SB XLII win, is no more factual than to say Eli "carried the team on his back" that game.

The fact is that our ferocious defense--who did in fact play extremely well through most of the game--DID also allow Brady and NE's offense to march down the field and score the go ahead TD, leaving only 2 minutes 45 seconds remaining in the game.

Regardless of what you or anyone says, that was decidedly NOT a "ferocious" defensive effort at the time it mattered most. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact put a HUGE amount of pressure upon Eli and the offense. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact required Eli to engineer one of the most memorable clutch game winning drives in Super Bowl history.

A clutch last-minute-game-winning Super Bowl performance, followed 4 years later by a second clutch last-minute-game-winning Super Bowl performance, that was not matched by Rodgers or by Brees in their respective single Super Bowl performance, nor was it matched by Brady in his 3 SB wins, as he led drives ending in Field Goals, not TDs in 2 of his 3 wins (while McNabb puked the 3rd one away).

Only Joe Montana has done more in 4th qtr SB drives, than has Eli. Only Joe.

ru_gmen55
04-08-2012, 10:08 PM
Why is this still a thing? Does anybody really care if he's considered #1, or #10 for that matter? The dude has two rings...and he's OUR quarterback. Eli doesn't need to be defended by anybody anymore...he has more than proven himself to his franchise and his fans, and that's all that matters. Reading some of those posts in the EMB thread made me shake my head. Do those Giants fans really expect a Cowboys and Eagles fans to be subjective enough to agree that Eli is #1? What if it was Romo and the Cowboys who won two rings in 07 and 11...would you honestly be man enough to say Romo is #1 over Rodgers Brees and Brady? I doubt it...

We love Eli. That's enough, isn't it?

Drez
04-08-2012, 10:12 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............ Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. Well said. And all true. It's been my experience that, in most things, people tend to see what they WANT to see, hear what they WANT to hear, believe what they WANT to believe. It is extremely difficult for most to let go of long-cherished beliefs, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Reality can be damned inconvenient at times, can't it? As a corollary to what you've stated here, I find it of particular note that since Eli entered the league in 2004, there have been 3 AFC teams that have appeared in multiple Super Bowls while only 1 NFC team has. And of those 4 teams only the Steelers and the Giants have actually WON multiple Super Bowls in that same 8 year period. Just as intriguing to me, most of the "Eli deniers"--or Eli qualifiers, or Eli doubters, or Eli equivicaters-- seem to cling to the idea that the significance of my SB point involves the idea that the 3 AFC teams appeared in multiple Super Bowls due in large part to WHO the QB is for those teams, yet the Giants SB trophies were won IN SPITE of Eli, because after all, football is a team sport, isn't it? (That "football is a team sport" concept seems to be more true when opining about Eli's abilities and contributions, than it is for the other QBs, for some mysterious and unexplained reason). And while it can be said that there have been many previous Eli-doubters who have turned a corner in their opinions of Eli after his 2011 season and SB XLVI, it can also be said many of these observers insist upon attributing his success to an aberration--this past season as his "one great season", for example--rather than to the fact that 2011 was a natural and inevitable result of Eli's unique continuous 8 year progress as a top tier pro QB. Did I misread something? This is my favorite part of your post, "Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............" I hate to give the answers away. I like people to connect the dots themselves. With that in mind, I pose some interesting questions. Who did Aaron Rodgers replace as a starter? Who did Kurt Warner replace as a quaterback? Could the play of the incumbent QB have some effect on how fast a newly drafted QB ascends to the role of starter? Who had a clearer path to becoming the starter when drafted Eli or Aaron Rodgers? I'm one of those people that clearly think SB victories are the result of team effort more than any individual effort. Eli was definitely one of the largest contributors to our SB runs but to say that he put the team on his back in 2007 is just wrong and an insult to Strahan and that ferocious D line that silenced a Goliath like Pats offense that year. Facts- Eli is a good QB. He is not better than his brother before the neck injury and in the past 4 years he has not been better than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, but people will see what they WANT to see. Yes, actually, you did misread something. You "misread" my entire post. Your quote of (supposedly) me, was not a quote of anything I said. At all. I suppose because I praised the poster I responded to with a "well said", you project any phrase he wrote as being written by me. Convoluted and convenient for your ranting purposes, but not very well thought out. And definitely inaccurate. And nowhere have I ever stated that Eli was better in the past 4 years than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, although I WOULD argue that he has most definitely risen to their level over that time period. To not recognize that Eli, a QB of a team that has won--in no small part due to his performance each game-- two Super Bowls in the past 5 years, to not recognize he is now at least on the level of 2 QBs who have won only 1 SBs each, along with Brady who has been out performed in his last 2 SBs by Eli, is not only being irrationally pig headed, but it could be argued is being completely ignorant. And while I personally have never made the argument that Eli is "the best QB in the NFL", the NFL writer (Jason Smith?) whose recent QB ranking provoked this thread, has made a compelling case for why HE ranks Eli #1 RIGHT NOW. It's his opinion, but he backs it with credible reasoning, whether you choose to agree or not. And, as I said before, I always find it interesting that in ALL discussions on this board concerning opinions of Eli and his standing among his QB peers, the concept of "football is a team sport" is so often used in denying or diminishing many of Eli's accomplishments, but that "team sport" concept seems never to be applied to the other QBs in the discussion, as you did, again, here. The persistent insistence, by people of your persuasion, to anyone who dares to say Eli had a critical role in winning both SBs as being an automatic "insult" to Strahan or Tuck or anyone else in those games is absurd and a result of poor thought processes. And by the way, to praise the 07 Giants defense as being "ferocious" and the primary reason for our in SB XLII win, is no more factual than to say Eli "carried the team on his back" that game. The fact is that our ferocious defense--who did in fact play extremely well through most of the game--DID also allow Brady and NE's offense to march down the field and score the go ahead TD, leaving only 2 minutes 45 seconds remaining in the game. Regardless of what you or anyone says, that was decidedly NOT a "ferocious" defensive effort at the time it mattered most. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact put a HUGE amount of pressure upon Eli and the offense. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact required Eli to engineer one of the most memorable clutch game winning drives in Super Bowl history. A clutch last-minute-game-winning Super Bowl performance, followed 4 years later by a second clutch last-minute-game-winning Super Bowl performance, that was not matched by Rodgers or by Brees in their respective single Super Bowl performance, nor was it matched by Brady in his 3 SB wins, as he led drives ending in Field Goals, not TDs in 2 of his 3 wins (while McNabb puked the 3rd one away). Only Joe Montana has done more in 4th qtr SB drives, than has Eli. Only Joe.</P>


Also, why is it that those that love AR (and use his one SB win as a legitimizer), that also use the team sport/defense argument against Eli, never mention that in Rodgers' sole win the difference in that game was a defensive TD?</P>


#thingsthatmakeyougohmmmm</P>

gmen46
04-08-2012, 10:24 PM
Ahhhh it figures that the person that started with the insults is the one that cries about it when they are directed at her.

Not surprising that you are going to use an analyst like Steve Young that once claimed "Mike Vick may be the best QB ever" to fortify your position.

Nice how in stating your case that NY Giants defense held the number one offense to 14 points that you failed to state that Eli Manning led NY Giants offense to score 17 points against a much better defense than the NY Giants did.

You can ***** and moal

First off I'm a guy. The gender symbol by the username should have been the first clue.

"Homer" was not meant as insult but as a statement of fact. You have to be ignoring the facts to state Eli is the best QB in the league or that he is on track to be the best QB ever based on one "great" year. I love my Giants too but tend to see things for what they are not what I wish they were.

If your going to claim Eli is the best give me something to work with. Watch the 2007 game again or reread some recaps. We were a 13.5 pt underdog. Do you remember how Brady reacted in thepress conference when he was told Plax said they would score 17 pts, he laughed. The defense was the MVP. Of course you have to give the award to one player, but the defense made it possible for the Giants to take the lead with one great drive by playing great D all game long.

We kicked Brady's #@# all game long. Eli did not put that team on his back. He was a major part of our success though.

Forget about anybody else or even the stats?

Does Eli have the best deep ball? NO Brady, Rodgers both have better deep balls.

Does Eli have the best accuracy? NO Rodgers, Brady both more accurate

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers? NO Brady is the best at this. Giants have arguably the best WR duo in the league. Plax and Toomer weren't slouches either.

Can Eli make plays with his legs? NO, multiple QBs can Rodgers, Vick, even Brees to name a few.

Is Eli the most clutch QB? Yes, It can be argued Brady is just as clutch. I say Eli is the most clutch QB. Rodgers has not played bad key moments in his young career.

Is Eli the best game manager? NO, P. Manning. followed by Brady.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions? NO, Rodgers, P. Manning, Brady, Brees all better.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems? NO, Brees was succesful with the Chargers and in the NO. Brady also has had different offensive coordinators and remained consistently successful.

These are facts. I consider Rodgers the best because he is the most accurate, he arguably has the best deep ball, he's the best at going through his progressions, and he can make plays with his legs. He's not more clutch than Eli and they both have talented receiver cores. There is nothing Eli does poorly except running, it's that he doesn't do some key things as well as the other QBs listed.

You're right.

Let's not give Eli any credit for having --in your words--"arguably the best WR duo in the league".

Let's just ignore the pesky little fact that Cruz was undrafted and had not caught a regular season NFL pass before this past season.

What was I thinking? Eli had nothing to do with Cruz's success.

And while we're at it, let's also ignore what ex players like Irvin and Deion Sanders--who have absolutely NO idea of what they're talking about when it comes to quality QBs and their passing--have said about Eli's passes this year. That he was not exceeded by any QB, this year at least, in number of accurate deep passes.

Let's go with your opinion, instead.

giantsfan420
04-08-2012, 10:31 PM
Ahhhh it figures that the person that started with the insults is the one that cries about it when they are directed at her.

Not surprising that you are going to use an analyst like Steve Young that once claimed "Mike Vick may be the best QB ever" to fortify your position.

Nice how in stating your case that NY Giants defense held the number one offense to 14 points that you failed to state that Eli Manning led NY Giants offense to score 17 points against a much better defense than the NY Giants did.

You can ***** and moal

First off I'm a guy. The gender symbol by the username should have been the first clue.

"Homer" was not meant as insult but as a statement of fact. You have to be ignoring the facts to state Eli is the best QB in the league or that he is on track to be the best QB ever based on one "great" year. I love my Giants too but tend to see things for what they are not what I wish they were.

If your going to claim Eli is the best give me something to work with. Watch the 2007 game again or reread some recaps. We were a 13.5 pt underdog. Do you remember how Brady reacted in thepress conference when he was told Plax said they would score 17 pts, he laughed. The defense was the MVP. Of course you have to give the award to one player, but the defense made it possible for the Giants to take the lead with one great drive by playing great D all game long.

We kicked Brady's #@# all game long. Eli did not put that team on his back. He was a major part of our success though.

Forget about anybody else or even the stats?

Does Eli have the best deep ball? NO Brady, Rodgers both have better deep balls.

Does Eli have the best accuracy? NO Rodgers, Brady both more accurate

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers? NO Brady is the best at this. Giants have arguably the best WR duo in the league. Plax and Toomer weren't slouches either.

Can Eli make plays with his legs? NO, multiple QBs can Rodgers, Vick, even Brees to name a few.

Is Eli the most clutch QB? Yes, It can be argued Brady is just as clutch. I say Eli is the most clutch QB. Rodgers has not played bad key moments in his young career.

Is Eli the best game manager? NO, P. Manning. followed by Brady.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions? NO, Rodgers, P. Manning, Brady, Brees all better.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems? NO, Brees was succesful with the Chargers and in the NO. Brady also has had different offensive coordinators and remained consistently successful.

These are facts. I consider Rodgers the best because he is the most accurate, he arguably has the best deep ball, he's the best at going through his progressions, and he can make plays with his legs. He's not more clutch than Eli and they both have talented receiver cores. There is nothing Eli does poorly except running, it's that he doesn't do some key things as well as the other QBs listed.

thats odd that each statement yuo apply to Eli and say "no" to is completely erroneous. lets start from the top:
Does Eli have the better deep ball?
Well considering Eli LED THE NFL IN PASS PLAYS OF 20 YDS OR MORE, I'd say certainly better than any other QB. Not to mention, Brady had an abysmal rating on passes 20 yds or more this past season. And not to mention in the head to head matchups with Brady and Rodgers, Eli ABSOLUTELY threw a better deep ball.

Does Eli have the best accuracy?
Again, in head to head matchups, Eli ABSOLUTELY had better passer accuracy numbers. Without looking up the exact stats, Eli DID have a higher completion % to go with more yards than Rodgers and Brady in the post season and in head 2 head matchups.

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers?
This one is subjective, which grouping do you like more; Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Branch or Nicks, Cruz, or MM...as its subjective no one can definitively win this one, although some one making the argument that Eli has won SB's with two completely different sets of wr's with completely different WR traits is definitely valid.

Is Eli the most clutch qb?
No explanation needed, YES.

Is Eli the best game manager?
Head 2 head vs NE, Eli has certainly managed the games better, less ints, more yards, and GW drives in THREE straight wins over NE.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions?
How you can say NO and act like its gospel is beyond me. In the playoffs, some one arguing Eli was better than the rest is certainly valid considering the scheme we run and Eli having to decipher the holes in the coverage in a matter of seconds, I would say without a doubt Eli does. A good barometer of this could be 3rd down conversions, and in that aspect, ELI DESTROYED those QBs you listed...not to mention Eli DESTROYING those other QB's in pass completion % in head to head matchups and the post season.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems?
So we should penalize Eli bc he makes the hardest offensive scheme work? Before Eli and the Giants, KG's offense which is a blend of run and shoot.sight adjustment, no team had ever won a SB. Seeing as how Eli won TWO in this offensive system, while he hasnt had to be successful in different offensive systems, he's mastered the most difficult of any of the elite passers.

LMFAO, you call what you listed facts? If anything, you went AGAINST the facts and used your own flawed subjective reasoning.

Rodgers wasnt as accurate vs Eli when it mattered most. He def. didnt have the better deep ball all season, and Eli's 3rd down conversions indicate he was much better in going through his progressions, especially in the post season.

And you make the error of assuming someone stating Eli is the best QB now, that it means he's been the best QB for years. No, before this season Eli wasnt better than those QB's. After this season, imho, Eli clearly placed himself above the others. And seeing as how NFL.COM ranks him number 1, your "homer" argument makes no sense.

lmfao, "these are facts"...how you could state that is both hilarious and beyond me, but thank you I needed a good laugh.

B&RWarrior
04-08-2012, 11:17 PM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

Well said. And all true.

It's been my experience that, in most things, people tend to see what they WANT to see, hear what they WANT to hear, believe what they WANT to believe.

It is extremely difficult for most to let go of long-cherished beliefs, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Reality can be damned inconvenient at times, can't it?

As a corollary to what you've stated here, I find it of particular note that since Eli entered the league in 2004, there have been 3 AFC teams that have appeared in multiple Super Bowls while only 1 NFC team has.

And of those 4 teams only the Steelers and the Giants have actually WON multiple Super Bowls in that same 8 year period.

Just as intriguing to me, most of the "Eli deniers"--or Eli qualifiers, or Eli doubters, or Eli equivicaters-- seem to cling to the idea that the significance of my SB point involves the idea that the 3 AFC teams appeared in multiple Super Bowls due in large part to WHO the QB is for those teams, yet the Giants SB trophies were won IN SPITE of Eli, because after all, football is a team sport, isn't it? (That "football is a team sport" concept seems to be more true when opining about Eli's abilities and contributions, than it is for the other QBs, for some mysterious and unexplained reason).

And while it can be said that there have been many previous Eli-doubters who have turned a corner in their opinions of Eli after his 2011 season and SB XLVI, it can also be said many of these observers insist upon attributing his success to an aberration--this past season as his "one great season", for example--rather than to the fact that 2011 was a natural and inevitable result of Eli's unique continuous 8 year progress as a top tier pro QB.

Did I misread something? This is my favorite part of your post, "Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............"

I hate to give the answers away. I like people to connect the dots themselves. With that in mind, I pose some interesting questions.

Who did Aaron Rodgers replace as a starter?

Who did Kurt Warner replace as a quaterback?

Could the play of the incumbent QB have some effect on how fast a newly drafted QB ascends to the role of starter?

Who had a clearer path to becoming the starter when drafted Eli or Aaron Rodgers?

I'm one of those people that clearly think SB victories are the result of team effort more than any individual effort. Eli was definitely one of the largest contributors to our SB runs but to say that he put the team on his back in 2007 is just wrong and an insult to Strahan and that ferocious D line that silenced a Goliath like Pats offense that year.

Facts- Eli is a good QB. He is not better than his brother before the neck injury and in the past 4 years he has not been better than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, but people will see what they WANT to see.

Yes, actually, you did misread something. You "misread" my entire post.

Your quote of (supposedly) me, was not a quote of anything I said. At all.

I suppose because I praised the poster I responded to with a "well said", you project any phrase he wrote as being written by me.

Convoluted and convenient for your ranting purposes, but not very well thought out. And definitely inaccurate.

And nowhere have I ever stated that Eli was better in the past 4 years than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, although I WOULD argue that he has most definitely risen to their level over that time period.

To not recognize that Eli, a QB of a team that has won--in no small part due to his performance each game-- two Super Bowls in the past 5 years, to not recognize he is now at least on the level of 2 QBs who have won only 1 SBs each, along with Brady who has been out performed in his last 2 SBs by Eli, is not only being irrationally pig headed, but it could be argued is being completely ignorant.

And while I personally have never made the argument that Eli is "the best QB in the NFL", the NFL writer (Jason Smith?) whose recent QB ranking provoked this thread, has made a compelling case for why HE ranks Eli #1 RIGHT NOW. It's his opinion, but he backs it with credible reasoning, whether you choose to agree or not.

And, as I said before, I always find it interesting that in ALL discussions on this board concerning opinions of Eli and his standing among his QB peers, the concept of "football is a team sport" is so often used in denying or diminishing many of Eli's accomplishments, but that "team sport" concept seems never to be applied to the other QBs in the discussion, as you did, again, here.

The persistent insistence, by people of your persuasion, to anyone who dares to say Eli had a critical role in winning both SBs as being an automatic "insult" to Strahan or Tuck or anyone else in those games is absurd and a result of poor thought processes.

And by the way, to praise the 07 Giants defense as being "ferocious" and the primary reason for our in SB XLII win, is no more factual than to say Eli "carried the team on his back" that game.

The fact is that our ferocious defense--who did in fact play extremely well through most of the game--DID also allow Brady and NE's offense to march down the field and score the go ahead TD, leaving only 2 minutes 45 seconds remaining in the game.

Regardless of what you or anyone says, that was decidedly NOT a "ferocious" defensive effort at the time it mattered most. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact put a HUGE amount of pressure upon Eli and the offense. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact required Eli to engineer one of the most memorable clutch game winning drives in Super Bowl history.

A clutch last-minute-game-winning Super Bowl performance, followed 4 years later by a second clutch last-minute-game-winning Super Bowl performance, that was not matched by Rodgers or by Brees in their respective single Super Bowl performance, nor was it matched by Brady in his 3 SB wins, as he led drives ending in Field Goals, not TDs in 2 of his 3 wins (while McNabb puked the 3rd one away).

Only Joe Montana has done more in 4th qtr SB drives, than has Eli. Only Joe.

I projected the buffyblue's post on you because you said ,"Well said. AND ALL TRUE." The key being "ALL TRUE".

I only used the past 4 years b/c I stated Rodgers as the best in the league and he has only been the starter for 4 years. It had nothing to do with any statement you made.

"Regardless of what you or anyone says, that was decidedly NOT a "ferocious" defensive effort at the time it mattered most. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact put a HUGE amount of pressure upon Eli and the offense. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact required Eli to engineer one of the most memorable clutch game winning drives in Super Bowl history."

This passage shows while you may enjoy football as much any other fan, you don't quite grasp the or understand the concepts. Obviously from your response your an intelligent guy, just not an expert on football analysis.

I, the black John Madden take it upon myself to tutor you in the way of the Football Jedis. LOL!

Lesson 1: If a defense holds the ALL TIME best offense to 1 td and then give up 1 more TD in the last 2-3 minutes the effort is not seen as a collapse. It is still measured as a success. "Strahans last stand" ('07 SB defense) was FEROCIOUS, DOMINANT, to say anything else is blasphemy and simply not true.

Never put Eli in the same sentence as Joe Montana unless he's askin gfor his autograph. Eli was not even as clutch as Elway. I still like Simms better than Eli.

Learn the ways of the B&RWarrior my son. Become a seeker of the truth...the truth young Jedi...I lay down my sword.

B&RWarrior
04-08-2012, 11:44 PM
Ahhhh it figures that the person that started with the insults is the one that cries about it when they are directed at her.

Not surprising that you are going to use an analyst like Steve Young that once claimed "Mike Vick may be the best QB ever" to fortify your position.

Nice how in stating your case that NY Giants defense held the number one offense to 14 points that you failed to state that Eli Manning led NY Giants offense to score 17 points against a much better defense than the NY Giants did.

You can ***** and moal

First off I'm a guy. The gender symbol by the username should have been the first clue.

"Homer" was not meant as insult but as a statement of fact. You have to be ignoring the facts to state Eli is the best QB in the league or that he is on track to be the best QB ever based on one "great" year. I love my Giants too but tend to see things for what they are not what I wish they were.

If your going to claim Eli is the best give me something to work with. Watch the 2007 game again or reread some recaps. We were a 13.5 pt underdog. Do you remember how Brady reacted in thepress conference when he was told Plax said they would score 17 pts, he laughed. The defense was the MVP. Of course you have to give the award to one player, but the defense made it possible for the Giants to take the lead with one great drive by playing great D all game long.

We kicked Brady's #@# all game long. Eli did not put that team on his back. He was a major part of our success though.

Forget about anybody else or even the stats?

Does Eli have the best deep ball? NO Brady, Rodgers both have better deep balls.

Does Eli have the best accuracy? NO Rodgers, Brady both more accurate

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers? NO Brady is the best at this. Giants have arguably the best WR duo in the league. Plax and Toomer weren't slouches either.

Can Eli make plays with his legs? NO, multiple QBs can Rodgers, Vick, even Brees to name a few.

Is Eli the most clutch QB? Yes, It can be argued Brady is just as clutch. I say Eli is the most clutch QB. Rodgers has not played bad key moments in his young career.

Is Eli the best game manager? NO, P. Manning. followed by Brady.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions? NO, Rodgers, P. Manning, Brady, Brees all better.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems? NO, Brees was succesful with the Chargers and in the NO. Brady also has had different offensive coordinators and remained consistently successful.

These are facts. I consider Rodgers the best because he is the most accurate, he arguably has the best deep ball, he's the best at going through his progressions, and he can make plays with his legs. He's not more clutch than Eli and they both have talented receiver cores. There is nothing Eli does poorly except running, it's that he doesn't do some key things as well as the other QBs listed.

thats odd that each statement yuo apply to Eli and say "no" to is completely erroneous. lets start from the top:
Does Eli have the better deep ball?
Well considering Eli LED THE NFL IN PASS PLAYS OF 20 YDS OR MORE, I'd say certainly better than any other QB. Not to mention, Brady had an abysmal rating on passes 20 yds or more this past season. And not to mention in the head to head matchups with Brady and Rodgers, Eli ABSOLUTELY threw a better deep ball.

Does Eli have the best accuracy?
Again, in head to head matchups, Eli ABSOLUTELY had better passer accuracy numbers. Without looking up the exact stats, Eli DID have a higher completion % to go with more yards than Rodgers and Brady in the post season and in head 2 head matchups.

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers?
This one is subjective, which grouping do you like more; Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Branch or Nicks, Cruz, or MM...as its subjective no one can definitively win this one, although some one making the argument that Eli has won SB's with two completely different sets of wr's with completely different WR traits is definitely valid.

Is Eli the most clutch qb?
No explanation needed, YES.

Is Eli the best game manager?
Head 2 head vs NE, Eli has certainly managed the games better, less ints, more yards, and GW drives in THREE straight wins over NE.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions?
How you can say NO and act like its gospel is beyond me. In the playoffs, some one arguing Eli was better than the rest is certainly valid considering the scheme we run and Eli having to decipher the holes in the coverage in a matter of seconds, I would say without a doubt Eli does. A good barometer of this could be 3rd down conversions, and in that aspect, ELI DESTROYED those QBs you listed...not to mention Eli DESTROYING those other QB's in pass completion % in head to head matchups and the post season.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems?
So we should penalize Eli bc he makes the hardest offensive scheme work? Before Eli and the Giants, KG's offense which is a blend of run and shoot.sight adjustment, no team had ever won a SB. Seeing as how Eli won TWO in this offensive system, while he hasnt had to be successful in different offensive systems, he's mastered the most difficult of any of the elite passers.

LMFAO, you call what you listed facts? If anything, you went AGAINST the facts and used your own flawed subjective reasoning.

Rodgers wasnt as accurate vs Eli when it mattered most. He def. didnt have the better deep ball all season, and Eli's 3rd down conversions indicate he was much better in going through his progressions, especially in the post season.

The questions listed were some of categoried that QBs are judged by. The multiple system argument goes to show Brees and Brady's prowess not find fault with Eli.

And you make the error of assuming someone stating Eli is the best QB now, that it means he's been the best QB for years. No, before this season Eli wasnt better than those QB's. After this season, imho, Eli clearly placed himself above the others. And seeing as how NFL.COM ranks him number 1, your "homer" argument makes no sense.

lmfao, "these are facts"...how you could state that is both hilarious and beyond me, but thank you I needed a good laugh.

If Eli is the best QB how come he didn't get one single vote for NFL MVP. 50 votes and he didn't receive one vote. Watch the actual games Eli is not the most accurate nor does he have the best deep ball. Eli is notorious for zeroing in on receivers and forcing the ball in to double teams.

You've already admitted you didn't look up the numbers. You don't know the numbers and you obviously don't watch the games. You do enjoy a good laugh though. This time your wrong. I recommend laughing it off.

I like Eli. I think he had his best year last year and showed great improvement. However, I'm not going to pretend he's Joe Montana and he does everything better than everybody else.


I had fun with this thread. I liked all the responses. They gave me time to work on my typing skills- which are awful. None of my comments are personal. I apologize if I ever offend as it was not my intention. I'm just trying to pass the time in a long boring off season. My work here is done. Good night Giants fans.

chasjay
04-09-2012, 12:49 AM
There is no way that anyone can dispute that Eli Manning has been the main reason we have won the last two SuperBowls we appeared in. In SuperBowl XLII, our defense collapsed and lost the lead that Eli Manning gave the NY Giants in 4th quarter. Eli Manning took us down thefield again and scored on one of the top defenses in the league.

It is just amazing how folks are going to just call us "homers" and ***** and moan because we call it like we see it and give Eli Manning his due. I am surprised R&amp;R has any trimester to type with all the time he spends with Aaron Rodgers' tool placed in his mouth.

Ahhhhh, and when a man can't find fault in the logic well then it's time for insults.

Lets get back to the facts shall we. In the 2007 SB the NYG defense held N.E.- which at that time was the No. 1 offense of ALL TIME, not just for that year- to 14 points. Yet your description of a "defensive collapse" that Eli overcame in the SB paint a very different picture.

Steve Young and Boomer Esaison have agreed with me in my position that Rodgers play right now is something to be in awe of. I think I stand in good company with the agreement of two HOF QBs and countless other players, analyst, and also members of the sports media that voted him MVP this year 48 votes to 2 votes for (Brees)... but then again there is your powerful opinion.

I expect more insults because my rational is sound.

glad to hear about your rational - but how is your rationale? hard to believe this has strung out for 11 pages

you will be vindicated soon enough - plenty of talking heads will come out with other rankings - some will probably leave Eli out of the top ten - your rational can really get sound then

giantsfan420
04-09-2012, 12:55 AM
Ahhhh it figures that the person that started with the insults is the one that cries about it when they are directed at her.

Not surprising that you are going to use an analyst like Steve Young that once claimed "Mike Vick may be the best QB ever" to fortify your position.

Nice how in stating your case that NY Giants defense held the number one offense to 14 points that you failed to state that Eli Manning led NY Giants offense to score 17 points against a much better defense than the NY Giants did.

You can ***** and moal

First off I'm a guy. The gender symbol by the username should have been the first clue.

"Homer" was not meant as insult but as a statement of fact. You have to be ignoring the facts to state Eli is the best QB in the league or that he is on track to be the best QB ever based on one "great" year. I love my Giants too but tend to see things for what they are not what I wish they were.

If your going to claim Eli is the best give me something to work with. Watch the 2007 game again or reread some recaps. We were a 13.5 pt underdog. Do you remember how Brady reacted in thepress conference when he was told Plax said they would score 17 pts, he laughed. The defense was the MVP. Of course you have to give the award to one player, but the defense made it possible for the Giants to take the lead with one great drive by playing great D all game long.

We kicked Brady's #@# all game long. Eli did not put that team on his back. He was a major part of our success though.

Forget about anybody else or even the stats?

Does Eli have the best deep ball? NO Brady, Rodgers both have better deep balls.

Does Eli have the best accuracy? NO Rodgers, Brady both more accurate

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers? NO Brady is the best at this. Giants have arguably the best WR duo in the league. Plax and Toomer weren't slouches either.

Can Eli make plays with his legs? NO, multiple QBs can Rodgers, Vick, even Brees to name a few.

Is Eli the most clutch QB? Yes, It can be argued Brady is just as clutch. I say Eli is the most clutch QB. Rodgers has not played bad key moments in his young career.

Is Eli the best game manager? NO, P. Manning. followed by Brady.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions? NO, Rodgers, P. Manning, Brady, Brees all better.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems? NO, Brees was succesful with the Chargers and in the NO. Brady also has had different offensive coordinators and remained consistently successful.

These are facts. I consider Rodgers the best because he is the most accurate, he arguably has the best deep ball, he's the best at going through his progressions, and he can make plays with his legs. He's not more clutch than Eli and they both have talented receiver cores. There is nothing Eli does poorly except running, it's that he doesn't do some key things as well as the other QBs listed.

thats odd that each statement yuo apply to Eli and say "no" to is completely erroneous. lets start from the top:
Does Eli have the better deep ball?
Well considering Eli LED THE NFL IN PASS PLAYS OF 20 YDS OR MORE, I'd say certainly better than any other QB. Not to mention, Brady had an abysmal rating on passes 20 yds or more this past season. And not to mention in the head to head matchups with Brady and Rodgers, Eli ABSOLUTELY threw a better deep ball.

Does Eli have the best accuracy?
Again, in head to head matchups, Eli ABSOLUTELY had better passer accuracy numbers. Without looking up the exact stats, Eli DID have a higher completion % to go with more yards than Rodgers and Brady in the post season and in head 2 head matchups.

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers?
This one is subjective, which grouping do you like more; Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Branch or Nicks, Cruz, or MM...as its subjective no one can definitively win this one, although some one making the argument that Eli has won SB's with two completely different sets of wr's with completely different WR traits is definitely valid.

Is Eli the most clutch qb?
No explanation needed, YES.

Is Eli the best game manager?
Head 2 head vs NE, Eli has certainly managed the games better, less ints, more yards, and GW drives in THREE straight wins over NE.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions?
How you can say NO and act like its gospel is beyond me. In the playoffs, some one arguing Eli was better than the rest is certainly valid considering the scheme we run and Eli having to decipher the holes in the coverage in a matter of seconds, I would say without a doubt Eli does. A good barometer of this could be 3rd down conversions, and in that aspect, ELI DESTROYED those QBs you listed...not to mention Eli DESTROYING those other QB's in pass completion % in head to head matchups and the post season.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems?
So we should penalize Eli bc he makes the hardest offensive scheme work? Before Eli and the Giants, KG's offense which is a blend of run and shoot.sight adjustment, no team had ever won a SB. Seeing as how Eli won TWO in this offensive system, while he hasnt had to be successful in different offensive systems, he's mastered the most difficult of any of the elite passers.

LMFAO, you call what you listed facts? If anything, you went AGAINST the facts and used your own flawed subjective reasoning.

Rodgers wasnt as accurate vs Eli when it mattered most. He def. didnt have the better deep ball all season, and Eli's 3rd down conversions indicate he was much better in going through his progressions, especially in the post season.

The questions listed were some of categoried that QBs are judged by. The multiple system argument goes to show Brees and Brady's prowess not find fault with Eli.

And you make the error of assuming someone stating Eli is the best QB now, that it means he's been the best QB for years. No, before this season Eli wasnt better than those QB's. After this season, imho, Eli clearly placed himself above the others. And seeing as how NFL.COM ranks him number 1, your "homer" argument makes no sense.

lmfao, "these are facts"...how you could state that is both hilarious and beyond me, but thank you I needed a good laugh.

If Eli is the best QB how come he didn't get one single vote for NFL MVP. 50 votes and he didn't receive one vote. Watch the actual games Eli is not the most accurate nor does he have the best deep ball. Eli is notorious for zeroing in on receivers and forcing the ball in to double teams.

You've already admitted you didn't look up the numbers. You don't know the numbers and you obviously don't watch the games. You do enjoy a good laugh though. This time your wrong. I recommend laughing it off.

I like Eli. I think he had his best year last year and showed great improvement. However, I'm not going to pretend he's Joe Montana and he does everything better than everybody else.


I had fun with this thread. I liked all the responses. They gave me time to work on my typing skills- which are awful. None of my comments are personal. I apologize if I ever offend as it was not my intention. I'm just trying to pass the time in a long boring off season. My work here is done. Good night Giants fans.

no, i said i'm not going to go look up the numbers. i know for a fact he had better statistical days than each qb he faced in the playoffs.

and about ur mvp vote, how would the vote turn out if it was held AFTER the playoffs...the MVP is a REGULAR season vote. No one would claim Eli is the best QB solely after the regular season. Its how he fared against those QB's head 2 head in the post season, and perhaps one of the greatest postseasons by a QB EVER that puts Eli above the rest.

edit- and in the regular season, Eli WAS the most accurate with the most passes 20 yards or more...then in the postseason, just going by the eye test, Eli absolutely played better than Rodgers, Brees, Rothelsburger (Sp), and Brady...anyone who cant admit that has issues understanding the game...

gmen0820
04-09-2012, 03:09 AM
No one would claim Eli is the best QB solely after the regular season. "The Burier" sure is trying to make a name of if lol

buffyblue
04-09-2012, 03:42 AM
R&R, your little "homer" comment as well as the dismissive to anyone that disagrees with you tone of your post is meant as an insult by you and everyone knows it sweetie.

The defensive tone for NY Giants was set by Eli Manning and the NY Giants offense when they held the ball for 9:59 on the opening drive and kept Tom Brady and New England Patriots offense on the bench for that time. The fact that is clear was that throughout that entire postseason as well as the postseason leading for SuperBowl XLVI that Eli Manning was the most consistent aspect and not NY Giants defense.

"Don't mention Eli Manning with Joe Montana unless he is asking for an autograph" is an ignorant statement. Eli Mannings performances in the 4th quarters of SuperBowl XLII and SuperBowl XLVI were as good if not better than any 4th quarter SuperBowl performance by Joe Montana. Also I doubt that Joe Montana would have been able to take the beating Eli Manning did in NFC Championship Game against San Francisco.

I never stated Eli Manning was the best QB in NFL. I stated that Eli Manning is the best QB in NFC and that in my opinion Tom Brady is still better at this time.
I never stated that Eli Manning will be remembered as the best ever. I stated that Eli Manning will be remembered as one of the best ever.

You want to quote stats and team play when it promotes your position against Eli Manning and then discount it to promote your position to fortify the QBs you advocate. Figure out which stance you want because you not gonna be able to double dip.

In SuperBowl XLII and SuperBowl XLVI Eli Manning engineered magnificent come from behind victories on the 4th quarter with two completely different sets of recievers. You don't have much that you can state against that.

giantsfan420
04-09-2012, 04:05 AM
No one would claim Eli is the best QB solely after the regular season. "The Burier" sure is trying to make a name of if lol

lol

buffyblue
04-09-2012, 04:21 AM
B

gmen46
04-09-2012, 05:06 AM
Folks are always going to hate on Eli Manning but the clear fact is he is the best QB in NFC. In my opinion the only better QB right now is Tom Brady. Eli Manning and Tom Brady both do more with less weapons than Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers.

Folks are always going to downplay Eli Mannings accomplishments. They are always going to make excuses for the fact that Eli Manning took two very flawed NY Giants teams on his back and won two SuperBowls with them. Folks are always going to overlook the fact that Eli Manning pushed Victor Cruz in the off season to catch home up and also pushed Hakeem Nicks and Mario Manningham during the offseason to limit the dropped passes. Eli Manning just like Tom Brady makes his recievers not vice versa. Just ask Steve Smith and Plexiglass Burress. Next season it will be Dominick
Hixon or some other number "3" reciever that emerges because of Eli Manning. Folks will continue to overlook and downplay that he has ice water in his veins and that in both SuperBowl victories he had two of the greatest 4th quarters by a QB in SuperBowl history. Folks will overlook and fownpmay his performance in that historic NFC Championship Game against San Francisco 49ers when he took that severe beating, did not falter and played QB as well as it can be played. Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............

Folks are going to blah blah against Eli Manning no matter what. Who cares. Let them rank him 32nd if they want. I will just be content that we as NY Giants fans are watching the greatest QB on the history of our time bring us SuperBowl Championships and giving is memories that we are going to share with our great grand children. When all is said and done barring injury, there will ne no doubt that Eli Manning is going to be remembered as one of the greatest QBs to ever play the game.

Well said. And all true.

It's been my experience that, in most things, people tend to see what they WANT to see, hear what they WANT to hear, believe what they WANT to believe.

It is extremely difficult for most to let go of long-cherished beliefs, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Reality can be damned inconvenient at times, can't it?

As a corollary to what you've stated here, I find it of particular note that since Eli entered the league in 2004, there have been 3 AFC teams that have appeared in multiple Super Bowls while only 1 NFC team has.

And of those 4 teams only the Steelers and the Giants have actually WON multiple Super Bowls in that same 8 year period.

Just as intriguing to me, most of the "Eli deniers"--or Eli qualifiers, or Eli doubters, or Eli equivicaters-- seem to cling to the idea that the significance of my SB point involves the idea that the 3 AFC teams appeared in multiple Super Bowls due in large part to WHO the QB is for those teams, yet the Giants SB trophies were won IN SPITE of Eli, because after all, football is a team sport, isn't it? (That "football is a team sport" concept seems to be more true when opining about Eli's abilities and contributions, than it is for the other QBs, for some mysterious and unexplained reason).

And while it can be said that there have been many previous Eli-doubters who have turned a corner in their opinions of Eli after his 2011 season and SB XLVI, it can also be said many of these observers insist upon attributing his success to an aberration--this past season as his "one great season", for example--rather than to the fact that 2011 was a natural and inevitable result of Eli's unique continuous 8 year progress as a top tier pro QB.

Did I misread something? This is my favorite part of your post, "Folks will always bring up that he has started for more years than Aaron Rodgers but will not bring up that he came in the league only one year before but got the nod to start quicker than Aaron Rodgers because Eli Mannings talent was much more obvious than Aaron Rodgers. Etc.......etc............"

I hate to give the answers away. I like people to connect the dots themselves. With that in mind, I pose some interesting questions.

Who did Aaron Rodgers replace as a starter?

Who did Kurt Warner replace as a quaterback?

Could the play of the incumbent QB have some effect on how fast a newly drafted QB ascends to the role of starter?

Who had a clearer path to becoming the starter when drafted Eli or Aaron Rodgers?

I'm one of those people that clearly think SB victories are the result of team effort more than any individual effort. Eli was definitely one of the largest contributors to our SB runs but to say that he put the team on his back in 2007 is just wrong and an insult to Strahan and that ferocious D line that silenced a Goliath like Pats offense that year.

Facts- Eli is a good QB. He is not better than his brother before the neck injury and in the past 4 years he has not been better than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, but people will see what they WANT to see.

Yes, actually, you did misread something. You "misread" my entire post.

Your quote of (supposedly) me, was not a quote of anything I said. At all.

I suppose because I praised the poster I responded to with a "well said", you project any phrase he wrote as being written by me.

Convoluted and convenient for your ranting purposes, but not very well thought out. And definitely inaccurate.

And nowhere have I ever stated that Eli was better in the past 4 years than Rodgers, Brees, or Brady, although I WOULD argue that he has most definitely risen to their level over that time period.

To not recognize that Eli, a QB of a team that has won--in no small part due to his performance each game-- two Super Bowls in the past 5 years, to not recognize he is now at least on the level of 2 QBs who have won only 1 SBs each, along with Brady who has been out performed in his last 2 SBs by Eli, is not only being irrationally pig headed, but it could be argued is being completely ignorant.

And while I personally have never made the argument that Eli is "the best QB in the NFL", the NFL writer (Jason Smith?) whose recent QB ranking provoked this thread, has made a compelling case for why HE ranks Eli #1 RIGHT NOW. It's his opinion, but he backs it with credible reasoning, whether you choose to agree or not.

And, as I said before, I always find it interesting that in ALL discussions on this board concerning opinions of Eli and his standing among his QB peers, the concept of "football is a team sport" is so often used in denying or diminishing many of Eli's accomplishments, but that "team sport" concept seems never to be applied to the other QBs in the discussion, as you did, again, here.

The persistent insistence, by people of your persuasion, to anyone who dares to say Eli had a critical role in winning both SBs as being an automatic "insult" to Strahan or Tuck or anyone else in those games is absurd and a result of poor thought processes.

And by the way, to praise the 07 Giants defense as being "ferocious" and the primary reason for our in SB XLII win, is no more factual than to say Eli "carried the team on his back" that game.

The fact is that our ferocious defense--who did in fact play extremely well through most of the game--DID also allow Brady and NE's offense to march down the field and score the go ahead TD, leaving only 2 minutes 45 seconds remaining in the game.

Regardless of what you or anyone says, that was decidedly NOT a "ferocious" defensive effort at the time it mattered most. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact put a HUGE amount of pressure upon Eli and the offense. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact required Eli to engineer one of the most memorable clutch game winning drives in Super Bowl history.

A clutch last-minute-game-winning Super Bowl performance, followed 4 years later by a second clutch last-minute-game-winning Super Bowl performance, that was not matched by Rodgers or by Brees in their respective single Super Bowl performance, nor was it matched by Brady in his 3 SB wins, as he led drives ending in Field Goals, not TDs in 2 of his 3 wins (while McNabb puked the 3rd one away).

Only Joe Montana has done more in 4th qtr SB drives, than has Eli. Only Joe.

I projected the buffyblue's post on you because you said ,"Well said. AND ALL TRUE." The key being "ALL TRUE".

I only used the past 4 years b/c I stated Rodgers as the best in the league and he has only been the starter for 4 years. It had nothing to do with any statement you made.

"Regardless of what you or anyone says, that was decidedly NOT a "ferocious" defensive effort at the time it mattered most. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact put a HUGE amount of pressure upon Eli and the offense. That "ferocious" defensive effort in fact required Eli to engineer one of the most memorable clutch game winning drives in Super Bowl history."

This passage shows while you may enjoy football as much any other fan, you don't quite grasp the or understand the concepts. Obviously from your response your an intelligent guy, just not an expert on football analysis.

I, the black John Madden take it upon myself to tutor you in the way of the Football Jedis. LOL!

Lesson 1: If a defense holds the ALL TIME best offense to 1 td and then give up 1 more TD in the last 2-3 minutes the effort is not seen as a collapse. It is still measured as a success. "Strahans last stand" ('07 SB defense) was FEROCIOUS, DOMINANT, to say anything else is blasphemy and simply not true.

Never put Eli in the same sentence as Joe Montana unless he's askin gfor his autograph. Eli was not even as clutch as Elway. I still like Simms better than Eli.

Learn the ways of the B&RWarrior my son. Become a seeker of the truth...the truth young Jedi...I lay down my sword.

Your patronizing aside--and I do admit I'm no football "expert" analyst--I understand basic "football concepts" just fine.

If Eli had not engineered his offense to a game winning TD drive in 2 minutes 7 seconds of the last 2 minutes 45 seconds of Super Bowl XLII, our "ferocious, dominant" defense would have been blamed, justifiably, for LOSING Super Bowl XLII. How's THAT for football concept?

Everyone would still be deriding "Strahan's last collapse", instead of still referring to "the Helmet Catch".

And they forever be referring to the 2007 Patriots as the "Greatest Team in NFL History".

But no one is, are they?

Call me blasphemous. Yes, the Giants defense played 3 and a half quarters of dominant --"ferocious", if you will--defense against one of the most explosive offenses in the history of the NFL.

But ALSO true--and you seem incapable of grasping THIS "football concept"-- that same defense allowed NE to march down 80 yards for the lead, leaving 2 minutes 42 seconds for Eli to stage an 83 yard comeback Super Bowl-winning TD drive, a drive, by the way, that defines a quarterback's career.

And he did that TWICE. In TWO Super Bowls.

Brady hasn't done that, in ANY of his 3 Super Bowl victories. And no, come-from-behind game-winning FGs are not equal to game-winning TDs.

And he couldn't do it when he had the chance against the Giants. Twice.

Peyton hasn't done that.

Brees hasn't done that.

Rodgers hasn't done that.

And Elway SURE as hell didn't do it, and he had 5 Super Bowl opportunities to put himself in a situation like that.

Greatness in an athlete--or in any human endeavor, actually--is not measured merely by numbers and statistics. Greatness is measured by what a person does as response to many stumbles along the way, in the most challenging of circumstances, on the largest of stages, and with the most at stake.

Only halfway into his career, Eli has met this measure of greatness to an extent unmatched by any active NFL QB.

jhamburg
04-09-2012, 10:31 AM
Your patronizing aside--and I do admit I'm no football "expert" analyst--I understand basic "football concepts" just fine.

If Eli had not engineered his offense to a game winning TD drive in 2 minutes 7 seconds of the last 2 minutes 45 seconds of Super Bowl XLII, our "ferocious, dominant" defense would have been blamed, justifiably, for LOSING Super Bowl XLII. How's THAT for football concept?

Everyone would still be deriding "Strahan's last collapse", instead of still referring to "the Helmet Catch".

And they forever be referring to the 2007 Patriots as the "Greatest Team in NFL History".

But no one is, are they?

Call me blasphemous. Yes, the Giants defense played 3 and a half quarters of dominant --"ferocious", if you will--defense against one of the most explosive offenses in the history of the NFL.

But ALSO true--and you seem incapable of grasping THIS "football concept"-- that same defense allowed NE to march down 80 yards for the lead, leaving 2 minutes 42 seconds for Eli to stage an 83 yard comeback Super Bowl-winning TD drive, a drive, by the way, that defines a quarterback's career.

And he did that TWICE. In TWO Super Bowls.

Brady hasn't done that, in ANY of his 3 Super Bowl victories. And no, come-from-behind game-winning FGs are not equal to game-winning TDs.

And he couldn't do it when he had the chance against the Giants. Twice.

Peyton hasn't done that.

Brees hasn't done that.

Rodgers hasn't done that.

And Elway SURE as hell didn't do it, and he had 5 Super Bowl opportunities to put himself in a situation like that.

Greatness in an athlete--or in any human endeavor, actually--is not measured merely by numbers and statistics. Greatness is measured by what a person does as response to many stumbles along the way, in the most challenging of circumstances, on the largest of stages, and with the most at stake.

Only halfway into his career, Eli has met this measure of greatness to an extent unmatched by any active NFL QB.

This whole idea that you have to have a come from behind win in the SB to be a great QB makes no sense to me. I mean if a QB finds himself in that situation, we can judge them by the results, sure. But the goal of a QB is to score every time they get their hands on the ball, not to let the other team get the lead and try to win in the 4th qtr.

You know what's more impressive than a 4th qtr comeback? Blowing a team out so the game is over before the 4th qtr even starts.

MikeIsaGiant
04-09-2012, 10:51 AM
I love Eli, but I don't think he's the best QB in the league. Brees and Rodgers are still IMO better QBs

burier
04-09-2012, 12:08 PM
No one would claim Eli is the best QB solely after the regular season. "The Burier" sure is trying to make a name of if lol

lol

He clearly wasn't statistically the best. But he clearly was the best. Do we really think that the player with the best stats is automatically the best player at his position??? That's insane

And unless you believe that Eli started taking PEDs just prior to the playoffs I really dont see how you can say he was the best QB in the playoffs but not the best QB period. Or at least in the discussion.

gmen0820
04-09-2012, 02:19 PM
No one would claim Eli is the best QB solely after the regular season. "The Burier" sure is trying to make a name of if lol

lol

He clearly wasn't statistically the best. But he clearly was the best. Do we really think that the player with the best stats is automatically the best player at his position??? That's insane

And unless you believe that Eli started taking PEDs just prior to the playoffs I really dont see how you can say he was the best QB in the playoffs but not the best QB period. Or at least in the discussion.Because people value what he did in the playoffs as well as his credentials.

You're right, it isn't all about stats, and it isn't solely about winning. It's a combination of the two. Every QB in the argument for the best QB in the league we know can throw exceptionally well and all bring their own good characteristics to a ball club. But to say Eli, who had a 9-7 team and wasn't the best statistically, was better than Rodgers, Brady, and Brees who all had better stats and records, is an unentertainable argument in my opinion.

Now that Eli went on his beat down tour, being the judging eye, I give the nod to him. You claim that because the media says it, we do too. That's completely false. The thread presented itself, and people agreed which doesn't mean there's a media narrative taking place, it just means that prior to that thread that provoked you to bump yours, no one bothered to assert their notion of Eli's league status, because that issue was on the back burner -- as it should be.

burier
04-09-2012, 02:32 PM
No one would claim Eli is the best QB solely after the regular season. "The Burier" sure is trying to make a name of if lol

lol

He clearly wasn't statistically the best. But he clearly was the best. Do we really think that the player with the best stats is automatically the best player at his position??? That's insane

And unless you believe that Eli started taking PEDs just prior to the playoffs I really dont see how you can say he was the best QB in the playoffs but not the best QB period. Or at least in the discussion.Because people value what he did in the playoffs as well as his credentials.

You're right, it isn't all about stats, and it isn't solely about winning. It's a combination of the two. Every QB in the argument for the best QB in the league we know can throw exceptionally well and all bring their own good characteristics to a ball club. But to say Eli, who had a 9-7 team and wasn't the best statistically, was better than Rodgers, Brady, and Brees who all had better stats and records, is an unentertainable argument in my opinion.

Now that Eli went on his beat down tour, being the judging eye, I give the nod to him. You claim that because the media says it, we do too. That's completely false. The thread presented itself, and people agreed which doesn't mean there's a media narrative taking place, it just means that prior to that thread that provoked you to bump yours, no one bothered to assert their notion of Eli's league status, because that issue was on the back burner -- as it should be.

Perhaps.

I'm unable to read minds so my theory will remain a theory.

Its at least a pretty big concidence that I said...wait till the media says Eli's the best (Posted after the SB btw..I should also add that I am no longer associated with Sports media so forgive for being impressed with myself for such an accurate prediction)...and that's exactly what happened.

But again...maybe as you say...there were a bunch of people who always thought (or at some previous point thought) what they're saying now and just didn't care to discuss it until now.

Maybe not very probable but definately possible.

Edit: I also think there may be a group of people who felt a certain way and kept it to themselves not wanting to deal with the pointing and laughing that people around here like to do. I think that's also possible. Always easier to let someone else go first.

gmen0820
04-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Maybe not very probable but definately possible.

Edit: I also think there may be a group of people who felt a certain way and kept it to themselves not wanting to deal with the pointing and laughing that people around here like to do. I think that's also possible. Always easier to let someone else go first.I would actually think it is more probable than you're leading on.

As for your edit note, if you're talking about after the season keeping it to themselves, I would definitely not disagree with you, although I had seen posts of people on here claiming Eli was the best QB. I mean at that point, who is anyone to refute that? He just went on another huge playoff run, he carried the team to it. He put up excellent numbers, set the 4th quarter touchdown record, all the 4th quarter comebacks etc. etc.

I mean someone could present the argument, but with all the emotions on Eli (rational and irrational) you wouldn't be able to argue it for 2 posts before you have 17 posters down your throat throwing different points at you. Even if your persevere and carry on the argument, any argument presented against Eli being first is shoddy at best, so it's fighting a losing cause.

burier
04-09-2012, 03:50 PM
Maybe not very probable but definately possible.

Edit: I also think there may be a group of people who felt a certain way and kept it to themselves not wanting to deal with the pointing and laughing that people around here like to do. I think that's also possible. Always easier to let someone else go first.I would actually think it is more probable than you're leading on.

As for your edit note, if you're talking about after the season keeping it to themselves, I would definitely not disagree with you, although I had seen posts of people on here claiming Eli was the best QB. I mean at that point, who is anyone to refute that? He just went on another huge playoff run, he carried the team to it. He put up excellent numbers, set the 4th quarter touchdown record, all the 4th quarter comebacks etc. etc.

I mean someone could present the argument, but with all the emotions on Eli (rational and irrational) you wouldn't be able to argue it for 2 posts before you have 17 posters down your throat throwing different points at you. Even if your persevere and carry on the argument, any argument presented against Eli being first is shoddy at best, so it's fighting a losing cause.

I may have seen a few posts myself after the Superbowl. I definately remember people saying that they still thought Rogers, Brady and Breese were better which blows my mind.

It just accured to me that this is bascially the same debate that went on all season just with a few changes to the details.

The story was 2011 Eli is sooooo much better than pre-2011 Eli that anything negative I ever said about eli pre-2011 is still valid.

Now its 2011 playoffs Eli is Sooooo much better than 2011 reg season Eli that anything I said about Eli prior to 2011 playoffs is still valid. "I was right then and I'm right now". I'm actually impressed at the lengths people will go to so long as they don't have to admit that they don't know what they're talking about.


The thing is..this story isn't over because that top 100 list is going to come out. And Eli will be too low on it. Guaranteed.

Which will start a whole other debate.

I'm gonna say somewhere around week 6 next season Eli will be placed by the media in that "invincible" category you were referring to before. The lane Rogers was in this past season.

And then the question will be...are you just listening to the Media or are you making up your own mind?

I mean seriously...how much Packers football do you really need to watch to determine that he's clearly the best QB in football? I'm gonna guess for most Giants fan they don't even watch the guy enough to make such a determination. To me its obvious that fans let ESPN mold their minds when it comes to this stuff.

Then you're really going to see the opinions swing.

Flip Empty
04-09-2012, 04:12 PM
just listening to the Media or are you making up your own mind?

I mean seriously...how much Packers football do you really need to watch to determine that he's clearly the best QB in football? I'm gonna guess for most Giants fan they don't even watch the guy enough to make such a determination. To me its obvious that fans let ESPN mold their minds when it comes to this stuff.
I wondered that myself as some of the arguments against him were borderline nonsensical.

Rodgers' play for most of last season was on a level no-one else could come close to. It was like defenses only lined up to watch him.

gmen0820
04-09-2012, 04:37 PM
I mean seriously...how much Packers football do you really need to watch to determine that he's clearly the best QB in football? I'm gonna guess for most Giants fan they don't even watch the guy enough to make such a determination. To me its obvious that fans let ESPN mold their minds when it comes to this stuff.

Then you're really going to see the opinions swing.So should ignorance affect our decision?

Let's be honest, no one here watches more football than Giants football. I watch an equal amount of Eagle games, but never more than Giants games. So should my criteria be limited to just Vick and Eli because they are the only ones I am qualified to assess for?

That's not the best logic to go by. What can Eli do that Rodgers can't? Vice versa. They are two incredible QBs, who you'd take starting a franchise tomorrow has a lot to do with what you value in a QB.

Eli has proven he can carry his team to a SB, he has great stats, and overall he's been a QB for a winning team since he's been in the league.

Rodgers has made the playoffs in 3 of his 4 starting years, won a SB, has shown everything you want out of a QB as well. He hasn't had a good OL, and his running game is mediocre.

The same argument can be made for Brady, and Brees. They are all excellent QBs.

What again was your reasoning for proclaiming he was the best, prior to the end of the year? I know you said it, I just don't remember why.

GameTime
04-09-2012, 04:58 PM
the very fact that there are 12 pages of discussion on the topic shows there is no clear cut #1 choice. Eli is in the discussion for one of the best QBs in the NFL. That is good enough for for 2 SB wins and good enough for me as a Giants fan. </P>

giantsfan420
04-09-2012, 05:06 PM
during the regular season, as gmen said, rodgers was just on another level in that he was dominant and he led a team to a 15-1 record.

imo, the only reason that rodgers had the nod over eli in the regular season is bc while it may not have been eli's fault, eli had a few games that were not of the caliber of the other top 3 qb's. i still maintained that eli WOULD become the best qb in the nfl, i've maintained that for years now. but i wasnt about to lie to myself so i could pretend like i was right. the redskins game, the jets game, and one or two more, eli did not play at his best level where as rodgers played at his best level the entire season.

but when the games became 10x as important, eli elevated his already elite play, while rodgers, brees, brady just kinda maintained their play from the regular season or at a lower level. thats why after the playoff run, i have no doubt Eli imo is the best QB, and i believe next year we'll see eli continue to improve, and it will be more widely accepted that eli is top dog.

this isnt to say eli didnt have a phenomenal regular season, he did, it was top 3, but it was just slightly not as good as brees, rodgers, and brady who all set records while leading their teams to a tremendous w-l record...

i actually think its kinda silly to not rank eli #1 after that postseason run...eli played at a higher level than any of the other elite qb's, vs the 9er defense (toughest d imo) vs GB (outplayed the regular season #1 QB) and Brady (perhaps one of the best all time)...to see what he did in comparison to the other elite qbs and still go, "well those other guys are better bc of the regular season"...well the disparity from rodgers, brees, brady to eli in the regular season was minimal, eli was just slightly beneath those qb's, where as the playoffs, the disparity from elis play to the other elite qbs was significant...

and like i maintain, eli is going t prove it clearly next season. can u imagine the season he's gonna have bc he's always improved from the following season. improving from this past season is gonna put eli as the top dog and it will be clear...

jax5338
04-09-2012, 05:09 PM
the very fact that there are 12 pages of discussion on the topic shows there is no clear cut* #1 choice. Eli is in the discussion for one of the best QBs in the NFL. That is good enough for for 2 SB wins and good enough for me as a Giants fan. </P>

+1

there's so much that can be debated it's ridiculous. let's just all agree that there is a handful of awesome quarterbacks in the NFL right now that have won superbowls, will likely win more superbowls and we can be happy to count eli among them.

burier
04-09-2012, 05:27 PM
I mean seriously...how much Packers football do you really need to watch to determine that he's clearly the best QB in football? I'm gonna guess for most Giants fan they don't even watch the guy enough to make such a determination. To me its obvious that fans let ESPN mold their minds when it comes to this stuff.

Then you're really going to see the opinions swing.So should ignorance affect our decision?

Let's be honest, no one here watches more football than Giants football. I watch an equal amount of Eagle games, but never more than Giants games. So should my criteria be limited to just Vick and Eli because they are the only ones I am qualified to assess for?

That's not the best logic to go by. What can Eli do that Rodgers can't? Vice versa. They are two incredible QBs, who you'd take starting a franchise tomorrow has a lot to do with what you value in a QB.

Eli has proven he can carry his team to a SB, he has great stats, and overall he's been a QB for a winning team since he's been in the league.

Rodgers has made the playoffs in 3 of his 4 starting years, won a SB, has shown everything you want out of a QB as well. He hasn't had a good OL, and his running game is mediocre.

The same argument can be made for Brady, and Brees. They are all excellent QBs.

What again was your reasoning for proclaiming he was the best, prior to the end of the year? I know you said it, I just don't remember why.

Edit: Just to address the comment about what teams you watch...The fact that you watch more Eagles and Giants games than you do other teams doesn't disqualify your opinion on other teams but it is something to consider. I watch the Giants the most. I rewatch games. Then its the division guys. Then its the Patriots because I live in Boston. So thats where i tend to be most opnionated. I do go out of may way to watch the big time QBs aswell.

It was at the end of the year...It was after the cowboys game.

When I considered everything Eli had done over his career. The way he handled his trial by fire. The moments he's had over his career along with the everything he had done during this past season it got me thinking.

Eli had two throws in that Dallas game that tipped it for me because I just couldn't imagine another quarterback making either throw.

There's the throw where he spins out hits Cruz deep.

And there's a throw where his feet are actually dead because he's got a defender wrapped around his legs and he somehow throws the ball in the middle of the field. He actually gets really good velocity on the ball in fits it in a very small spot despite having to basically shoulder the damn thing in there.

After seeing those two throws I was comfortable saying...Yeah I'll take Eli over anybody.


Prior to the season I posted that Eli had magic.

At some point this stuff has to stop being luck.

Eli consistently completes passes that should not be completed (Or attempted) by mere mortals.

GameTime
04-09-2012, 05:45 PM
the very fact that there are 12 pages of discussion on the topic shows there is no clear cut #1 choice. Eli is in the discussion for one of the best QBs in the NFL. That is good enough for for 2 SB wins and good enough for me as a Giants fan. </P>


+1 there's so much that can be debated it's ridiculous. let's just all agree that there is a handful of awesome quarterbacks in the NFL right now that have won superbowls, will likely win more superbowls and we can be happy to count eli among them.</P>


I know right....</P>


so much blah blah blah and "you said this and I said that". </P>


...why does Eli have to be the best QB in the NFL?? He doesn't. He is one of the best. So is Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Bress, etc. </P>


</P>


</P>

gmen46
04-09-2012, 05:56 PM
Your patronizing aside--and I do admit I'm no football "expert" analyst--I understand basic "football concepts" just fine.

If Eli had not engineered his offense to a game winning TD drive in 2 minutes 7 seconds of the last 2 minutes 45 seconds of Super Bowl XLII, our "ferocious, dominant" defense would have been blamed, justifiably, for LOSING Super Bowl XLII. How's THAT for football concept?

Everyone would still be deriding "Strahan's last collapse", instead of still referring to "the Helmet Catch".

And they forever be referring to the 2007 Patriots as the "Greatest Team in NFL History".

But no one is, are they?

Call me blasphemous. Yes, the Giants defense played 3 and a half quarters of dominant --"ferocious", if you will--defense against one of the most explosive offenses in the history of the NFL.

But ALSO true--and you seem incapable of grasping THIS "football concept"-- that same defense allowed NE to march down 80 yards for the lead, leaving 2 minutes 42 seconds for Eli to stage an 83 yard comeback Super Bowl-winning TD drive, a drive, by the way, that defines a quarterback's career.

And he did that TWICE. In TWO Super Bowls.

Brady hasn't done that, in ANY of his 3 Super Bowl victories. And no, come-from-behind game-winning FGs are not equal to game-winning TDs.

And he couldn't do it when he had the chance against the Giants. Twice.

Peyton hasn't done that.

Brees hasn't done that.

Rodgers hasn't done that.

And Elway SURE as hell didn't do it, and he had 5 Super Bowl opportunities to put himself in a situation like that.

Greatness in an athlete--or in any human endeavor, actually--is not measured merely by numbers and statistics. Greatness is measured by what a person does as response to many stumbles along the way, in the most challenging of circumstances, on the largest of stages, and with the most at stake.

Only halfway into his career, Eli has met this measure of greatness to an extent unmatched by any active NFL QB.

This whole idea that you have to have a come from behind win in the SB to be a great QB makes no sense to me. I mean if a QB finds himself in that situation, we can judge them by the results, sure. But the goal of a QB is to score every time they get their hands on the ball, not to let the other team get the lead and try to win in the 4th qtr.

You know what's more impressive than a 4th qtr comeback? Blowing a team out so the game is over before the 4th qtr even starts.

It makes no sense to you because you are looking at it backwards (no disrespect intended).

Come from behind victories in big games is not, in theory, a REQUIREMENT for an NFL QB to be considered great.

But history has in fact shown us that all professional QBs have found themselves, at one time or another during their careers, in games where their team is behind an opponent late in the 4th Qtr with an opportunity to win with a score in the closing minutes or seconds.

For most people, these would be considered the most high-pressured moments in any game, and in any career.

And reality is that those QBs who most consistently respond the best to these high pressured moments with winning scoring drives are usually the best of their peers.

Doing so in "big" games, like the Super Bowl, for example, converts the normal high pressure situations into the highest of the high pressure situations.

"Average" or even "very good" QBs usually don't possess the extra attributes required to reach back into their reserves and snatch last minute victory from the jaws of defeat on a CONSISTENT basis.

There is a reason why Joe Montana, Johnny Unitas, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady--among other universally acclaimed "great QBs", are known for their "clutch" abilities, their abilty to pull out last minute victories. Do you consider these QBs to be bad QBs because they "allowed" an opponent to get head of them earlier in the game?

Conversely, ask any Eagles or Cowboys fan of the past 15 years what I'm talking about.

That attribute is what separates the truly great from just the very good.

Of COURSE the "goal" of a QB is to "score every time they get their hands on the ball", but what universe do you live in where that EVER happens in professional football, even in ONE game in an entire career? Name one NFL QB who has had more than one game--if he ever had even one-- in their entire career when he scored every time he got his hands on the ball.

Every opponent of even the best teams are all professional players and coaches as well. Even though some teams are more consistently better (or worse) than some other teams in any given year, they are nonetheless all pros. They would not be in the NFL if they were not individually better than 99.9999% of all other college football players, let alone the rest of the general population.

We are not discussing college or high school ball, where there are--due to the vagaries of geography for high school, and via recruitment and / or large amounts of alumni funding for a college--a relatively few behemoth team powerhouses playing average or below average opposition 8 or 9 times out of their 12 game schedule.

And are you REALLY more impressed with the Patriots defeating Kansas City 34-3, or with the Patriots defeating Buffalo 49-21 (games that were "over before the 4th qtr even started"), more than you were impressed with the Giants defeating New England 24-20 and 21-17 (both of which were won with 4th qtr comebacks)?

Because that's what you are saying with your last sentence. And that's what happened in 2011 for the Patriots.

That's your privilege. But it sure makes for boring, uninspired football, and is not why I'm a rabid fan of the game.

But that's just me, apparently.

gmen0820
04-09-2012, 06:08 PM
Eli had two throws in that Dallas game that tipped it for me because I just couldn't imagine another quarterback making either throw.

There's the throw where he spins out hits Cruz deep.

And there's a throw where his feet are actually dead because he's got a defender wrapped around his legs and he somehow throws the ball in the middle of the field. He actually gets really good velocity on the ball in fits it in a very small spot despite having to basically shoulder the damn thing in there.

After seeing those two throws I was comfortable saying...Yeah I'll take Eli over anybody.Can't argue with that, that's how I felt after those throws. I think I see eye to eye with you on this, but I certainly saw improvement in Eli's play this year.

I just feel he made more happen this year than in years prior. He has always had good pocket presence, but this year I thought it took on a life of its own. He has always made stick throws, but they were better executed this year. He threw the ball away more, so less was forced. There is not much to critique about Eli's year last year. Did he play poorly at any point, sure he did -- every great QB has his bad moments.

Eli is set apart by his value to his team. You can take Rodgers, who does everything exceptionally, and Flynn can (well could) pick up the slack. Brady leaves, Cassel leads them to 11-5. Peyton's team is **** without him, but like Eli, he has/had a lot of value to his team. Brees, he is Payton's system, so he definitely has a lot of value to his team.

But with Peyton's age and health, and Brees' ineffectiveness outside, I'm confident that those detractors are enough to separate Eli.

Now I can say that I haven't seen Eli at this level enough to make the conclusion to put him at the top, because like I said, I do think Eli made strides this year. I can't even call it strides, I think he just honed his skills to take him from a hidden commodity to an outright star. So if I lived in denial, I could say that Eli could be a one year wonder, but Eli has gotten better by the years like many have said, so there is no logical (logic is important) reason for me to believe that.

But I do value credentials with stats. If Eli and the Giants got bounced out first round, any QB other than Joe Flacco, maybe Matt Ryan, and Alex Smith would probably be my top choice. Brady would either have 4 rings, or Brees/Rodgers would have their second ring and cap off an incredible year.

TrueBlue@NYC
04-09-2012, 06:11 PM
The only thing significant about that list is the groupings of players. The rankings themselves mean little b/c it's always changing, season to season, week to week. The labeled "best" QB (or any position) changes. </P>


Think of where they were ranking Big Ben going into the 2010 SB. Or even right after. Now look at where they rank him. </P>


Every player has a range of what LEVEL they good play at at any given period. The top guys have the ability to play at the highest level consistently. The good players can hit that highest level for periods at a time, but can also hit some lows. The mediore ones rarely ever play at the highest level, but can go for stretches playing at a good level and so on and so forth. </P>


These rankings don't mean much either way. Even if Eli was ranked 3rd or 4th, would it really make a difference? </P>

jjj45
04-09-2012, 06:29 PM
the very fact that there are 12 pages of discussion on the topic shows there is no clear cut #1 choice. Eli is in the discussion for one of the best QBs in the NFL. That is good enough for for 2 SB wins and good enough for me as a Giants fan. </p>I was thinking about this today. Great point.

There really is no clear cut superior #1 guy right now.

Packers fans say its Rodgers. Saints fans say its Brees. And a good amount of Giants fans (I'm being extremely generous here) think its Eli.


We all have good reasons to think its our respective guy.

gmen46
04-09-2012, 06:38 PM
the very fact that there are 12 pages of discussion on the topic shows there is no clear cut* #1 choice. Eli is in the discussion for one of the best QBs in the NFL. That is good enough for for 2 SB wins and good enough for me as a Giants fan. </P>


+1 there's so much that can be debated it's ridiculous. let's just all agree that there is a handful of awesome quarterbacks in the NFL right now that have won superbowls, will likely win more superbowls and we can be happy to count eli among them.</P>


I know right....</P>


so much blah blah blah and "you said this and I said that". </P>


...why does Eli have to be the best QB in the NFL?? He doesn't. He is one of the best. So is Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Bress, etc. </P>


*</P>


*</P>

Aside from the occasional personal attacks that arise--most of which I attribute to the "heat of the battle", so to speak, and I try (sometimes successfully) to ignore--I assumed we discuss the subject because it's fun. Because most of us log onto this board in the first place because it's fun to yabber about football in general, and Giants football in particular.

What's wrong with that?

GmenFan1980
04-09-2012, 06:51 PM
I mean seriously...how much Packers football do you really need to watch to determine that he's clearly the best QB in football? I'm gonna guess for most Giants fan they don't even watch the guy enough to make such a determination. To me its obvious that fans let ESPN mold their minds when it comes to this stuff.

Then you're really going to see the opinions swing.So should ignorance affect our decision?

Let's be honest, no one here watches more football than Giants football. I watch an equal amount of Eagle games, but never more than Giants games. So should my criteria be limited to just Vick and Eli because they are the only ones I am qualified to assess for?

That's not the best logic to go by. What can Eli do that Rodgers can't? Vice versa. They are two incredible QBs, who you'd take starting a franchise tomorrow has a lot to do with what you value in a QB.

Eli has proven he can carry his team to a SB, he has great stats, and overall he's been a QB for a winning team since he's been in the league.

Rodgers has made the playoffs in 3 of his 4 starting years, won a SB, has shown everything you want out of a QB as well. He hasn't had a good OL, and his running game is mediocre.

The same argument can be made for Brady, and Brees. They are all excellent QBs.

What again was your reasoning for proclaiming he was the best, prior to the end of the year? I know you said it, I just don't remember why.

There is my complaint right here. The "what can Eli do that Rodgers can't? and Vice versa"

I don't care for silly list on who are the best QB because it's just an opinion, but What has Rodgers done that Eli hasn't that makes him considered to be so much better then Eli?

gmen0820
04-09-2012, 07:15 PM
There is my complaint right here. The "what can Eli do that Rodgers can't? and Vice versa"

I don't care for silly list on who are the best QB because it's just an opinion, but What has Rodgers done that Eli hasn't that makes him considered to be so much better then Eli?To be considered much better, I don't think he's done anything that Eli hasn't, but by putting Eli at the top, what has he done that Rodgers hasn't? Well for starters, he has won two SBs, and has great numbers like Rodgers.

Somewhere in this, and especially for me, credentials and stats come together and take their place in the argument, especially when these QBs are so neck to neck. They are all exceptional passers, I've talked about the necessary traits a QB must possess on this board, and they all possess them. So from a raw prospect status, they're very similar. Apply it to the game, Eli has stats, intangibles, and credentials to rival anyone's. That's why he gets my vote.

Now if people want to dig deeper into those traits I alluded too (and I certainly don't), then there are grounds for an argument, a long, gruesome, subjective argument.

GameTime
04-09-2012, 07:39 PM
the very fact that there are 12 pages of discussion on the topic shows there is no clear cut #1 choice. Eli is in the discussion for one of the best QBs in the NFL. That is good enough for for 2 SB wins and good enough for me as a Giants fan. </P>


+1 there's so much that can be debated it's ridiculous. let's just all agree that there is a handful of awesome quarterbacks in the NFL right now that have won superbowls, will likely win more superbowls and we can be happy to count eli among them.</P>


I know right....</P>


so much blah blah blah and "you said this and I said that". </P>


...why does Eli have to be the best QB in the NFL?? He doesn't. He is one of the best. So is Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Bress, etc. </P>


</P>


</P>


Aside from the occasional personal attacks that arise--most of which I attribute to the "heat of the battle", so to speak, and I try (sometimes successfully) to ignore--I assumed we discuss the subject because it's fun. Because most of us log onto this board in the first place because it's fun to yabber about football in general, and Giants football in particular. What's wrong with that?</P>


Nothing wrong with it but its page after page and thread after thread. I realize its the "norm" on a board but its the same arguements over and over. So I could just ignore the thread but I figured I would vent a little bit...</P>


[B]</P>

Drez
04-09-2012, 08:46 PM
the very fact that there are 12 pages of discussion on the topic shows there is no clear cut #1 choice. Eli is in the discussion for one of the best QBs in the NFL. That is good enough for for 2 SB wins and good enough for me as a Giants fan. </p>

The only argument I've been arguing for in this thread is the fact that who's number 1 is up to discussion and that not a lot separates the top 5 or so QBs. As such compelling arguments can be made for any of Brady, Brees, E. Manning, P. Manning, or Rodgers to be the "best" QB in the NFL. No one of them is miles better than any of the others.

B&RWarrior
04-09-2012, 09:43 PM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

JMFP2
04-09-2012, 10:24 PM
I almost never post in the off season...but after reading the article and I had to check in to crack an egg of knowledge on some heads: Eli is the king because he should be. Who had better year than he did? Brees and Rodgers but up sick numbers in the regular season, but when they faced stout defenses in the post season, they could not get it done. Rodgers was particularly bad. Brady threw 2 consecutive bad passes that honestly would have won them a SB if they were decent, not to mention getting to that game was a fluke in my opinion. Lets not forget the safe either. Matty ice, Stafford? Please! Eli was the only qb in the league to make the plays that needed to be made for the regular season and post season-period. And like the g men, he is the unchallenged king until the first snap of the regular season.</P>


Great points.</P>

giantsfan420
04-09-2012, 10:42 PM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

do you not understand that the MVP vote is FOR THE REGULAR SEASON ONLY? That negates where Eli CLEARLY outplayed the other elite QB's...if the MVP vote was held after the SB, you really think Eli wouldn't get "one vote"...smh, I already went through your list of why Rodgers, Brees and Brady are better than Eli and ripped every one of your premises apart...

Eli HAD A BETTER DEEP BALL PASSER RATING.
Eli HAD A BETTER 3rd DOWN CONVERSION %
Eli HAD HIGHER COMPLETION % numbers in the playoffs

When you combine that with his clutch ability, if some one wants to say Eli is the best QB in the NFL and has the potential to go down as one of the best ever, who the F are you to say otherwise?

When the Giants played the Packers in the playoffs, you believe Rodgers played better than Eli??? Because EVERY statistic, Eli destroyed him that game, let alone led the team to a mmulti possession win...

Same vs NE, Eli destroyed Brady in every statistical category.

In the postseason, Eli HAD BETTER STATS ACROSS THE BOARD than any other QB.

Not to mention, Eli's numbers might have been affected seeing as during the regular season, the NYG had THE HARDEST SCHEDULE IN THE LEAGUE...while NE, GB, and NO had relatively easy schedules...in games where the opposition was the best of the best, which is the playoffs, Eli raised his level of play above the rest.

buffyblue
04-09-2012, 11:07 PM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

giantsfan420
04-09-2012, 11:20 PM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

bravo. also, eli manning has the highest QB rating in the 4th quarter of SB in NFL history...thats pretty damn special considering any NFL QB will tell you that a qb's worth/measure is determined on the biggest of stages in the biggest of moments.

And Joe Montana led ONE GW SB 4th quarter drive I believe, Eli's now done it twice...

lawl
04-09-2012, 11:24 PM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

bravo. also, eli manning has the highest QB rating in the 4th quarter of SB in NFL history...thats pretty damn special considering any NFL QB will tell you that a qb's worth/measure is determined on the biggest of stages in the biggest of moments.

And Joe Montana led ONE GW SB 4th quarter drive I believe, Eli's now done it twice...

Can't have a gw drive in a blowout win.

giantsfan420
04-09-2012, 11:46 PM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

bravo. also, eli manning has the highest QB rating in the 4th quarter of SB in NFL history...thats pretty damn special considering any NFL QB will tell you that a qb's worth/measure is determined on the biggest of stages in the biggest of moments.

And Joe Montana led ONE GW SB 4th quarter drive I believe, Eli's now done it twice...

Can't have a gw drive in a blowout win.

regardless...its not like montana faced a tom brady/bb led patriots team that had a combined 31-5 record (including the 2 losses at the SB otherwise 31-3) and its not like we should penalize Eli for 2 game winning drives....has any other QB led GW drives in multiple SB's?

lawl
04-09-2012, 11:50 PM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

bravo. also, eli manning has the highest QB rating in the 4th quarter of SB in NFL history...thats pretty damn special considering any NFL QB will tell you that a qb's worth/measure is determined on the biggest of stages in the biggest of moments.

And Joe Montana led ONE GW SB 4th quarter drive I believe, Eli's now done it twice...

Can't have a gw drive in a blowout win.

regardless...its not like montana faced a tom brady/bb led patriots team that had a combined 31-5 record (including the 2 losses at the SB otherwise 31-3) and its not like we should penalize Eli for 2 game winning drives....has any other QB led GW drives in multiple SB's?

Quite the contrary. QBs that have multiple SB wins that haven't had to worry about gw drives shouldn't be penalized simply because they scored more points earlier in the game..

A td is 6 points regardless of when it is scored.

lawl
04-09-2012, 11:51 PM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.

giantsfan420
04-09-2012, 11:52 PM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

bravo. also, eli manning has the highest QB rating in the 4th quarter of SB in NFL history...thats pretty damn special considering any NFL QB will tell you that a qb's worth/measure is determined on the biggest of stages in the biggest of moments.

And Joe Montana led ONE GW SB 4th quarter drive I believe, Eli's now done it twice...

Can't have a gw drive in a blowout win.

regardless...its not like montana faced a tom brady/bb led patriots team that had a combined 31-5 record (including the 2 losses at the SB otherwise 31-3) and its not like we should penalize Eli for 2 game winning drives....has any other QB led GW drives in multiple SB's?

Quite the contrary. QBs that have multiple SB wins that haven't had to worry about gw drives shouldn't be penalized simply because they scored more points earlier in the game..

A td is 6 points regardless of when it is scored.

who said anything about penalizing a qb for leading a team to a blowout victory?

i discussed eli leading 2 GW SB drives and you went "well can't have GW drive in a blow out"...I was merely pointing out that Eli has shown the same clutch ability in the SB Montana did...

edit- has another QB led multiple GW drives in the SB? i cant think of one...

Drez
04-09-2012, 11:55 PM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Hasn't all of Brady's GW drives resulted in FGs and not TDs though?

Drez
04-09-2012, 11:57 PM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?

giantsfan420
04-09-2012, 11:58 PM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.


yeah but weren;t they 2 gw fg's?

big difference in how brady accumulated his and how eli accumalated his...BIG difference being down 4 and down 1 or 2 and having the most clutch kicker in nfl history
not to mention the GW drive vs carolina, their drive started at the 40 after the carolina kicked off out of bounds...having to go 30 yards for a GW drive and 83 yards, BIG difference.

even still, i believe eli has the highest qb rating in the 4th quarter in nfl history

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:05 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.


yeah but weren;t they 2 gw fg's?

big difference in how brady accumulated his and how eli accumalated his...BIG difference being down 4 and down 1 or 2 and having the most clutch kicker in nfl history
not to mention the GW drive vs carolina, their drive started at the 40 after the carolina kicked off out of bounds...having to go 30 yards for a GW drive and 83 yards, BIG difference.

even still, i believe eli has the highest qb rating in the 4th quarter in nfl history

It's still a gw drive. Its not his fault they didnt need a td to win.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 12:06 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.


yeah but weren;t they 2 gw fg's?

big difference in how brady accumulated his and how eli accumalated his...BIG difference being down 4 and down 1 or 2 and having the most clutch kicker in nfl history
not to mention the GW drive vs carolina, their drive started at the 40 after the carolina kicked off out of bounds...having to go 30 yards for a GW drive and 83 yards, BIG difference.

even still, i believe eli has the highest qb rating in the 4th quarter in nfl history

It's still a gw drive. Its not his fault they didnt need a td to win.

"quite the contrary, its not ELI'S fault we needed a td to win"

Drez
04-10-2012, 12:07 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.


yeah but weren;t they 2 gw fg's?

big difference in how brady accumulated his and how eli accumalated his...BIG difference being down 4 and down 1 or 2 and having the most clutch kicker in nfl history
not to mention the GW drive vs carolina, their drive started at the 40 after the carolina kicked off out of bounds...having to go 30 yards for a GW drive and 83 yards, BIG difference.

even still, i believe eli has the highest qb rating in the 4th quarter in nfl history

It's still a gw drive. Its not his fault they didnt need a td to win.
Would you still consider a dude a virgin if all he's done is gotten oral?

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 12:08 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.


yeah but weren;t they 2 gw fg's?

big difference in how brady accumulated his and how eli accumalated his...BIG difference being down 4 and down 1 or 2 and having the most clutch kicker in nfl history
not to mention the GW drive vs carolina, their drive started at the 40 after the carolina kicked off out of bounds...having to go 30 yards for a GW drive and 83 yards, BIG difference.

even still, i believe eli has the highest qb rating in the 4th quarter in nfl history

It's still a gw drive. Its not his fault they didnt need a td to win.
Would you still consider a dude a virgin if all he's done is gotten oral?


LMFAO!!!

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:12 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?


No team had held the 07 patriots under 20 points besides us. We were lucky to have even had an opportunity to win the game with only 17 points.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:14 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.


yeah but weren;t they 2 gw fg's?

big difference in how brady accumulated his and how eli accumalated his...BIG difference being down 4 and down 1 or 2 and having the most clutch kicker in nfl history
not to mention the GW drive vs carolina, their drive started at the 40 after the carolina kicked off out of bounds...having to go 30 yards for a GW drive and 83 yards, BIG difference.

even still, i believe eli has the highest qb rating in the 4th quarter in nfl history

It's still a gw drive. Its not his fault they didnt need a td to win.

"quite the contrary, its not ELI'S fault we needed a td to win"

I didn't infer that it was.

You asked for gw drives, i told you them.

jjj45
04-10-2012, 12:16 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?


No team had held the 07 patriots under 20 points besides us. We were lucky to have even had an opportunity to win the game with only 17 points.Oh so because the D fought hard and held them to only 14 points it is okay?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather win freakin games! Which is what Eli does.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:17 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:20 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?


No team had held the 07 patriots under 20 points besides us. We were lucky to have even had an opportunity to win the game with only 17 points.Oh so because the D fought hard and held them to only 14 points it is okay?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather win freakin games! Which is what Eli does.


No he doesnt.

The New York Giants are the team we are fans of, not the New York Eli Manning.

This isn't baseball, players don't get wins in their statlines.

jjj45
04-10-2012, 12:21 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:26 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.

Drez
04-10-2012, 12:28 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?


No team had held the 07 patriots under 20 points besides us. We were lucky to have even had an opportunity to win the game with only 17 points.
How does that matter when there's only been 7 points scored with minutes left in the 4th?

Did or did not the defense relinquish a TD late in the 4Q after Eli had retaken the lead? Would that then not qualify as "blowing it?" How would that not be "blowing it" yet what the Pats defense is?

Just looking for some consistency. You can't have it both ways.

Drez
04-10-2012, 12:29 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.
And what does that have to do with it?

jjj45
04-10-2012, 12:35 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.Its interesting how you haven't denied to discrediting Manning. Which makes it very clear to me that you are very critical of Eli and obviously can't seem to give the guy credit for much of anything. Everytime someone brings sound reasons, you have to nitpick.

I don't know what else Eli could do to make you happy. Except disappear.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:35 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.
And what does that have to do with it?


He said the 4th quarter is whenit really matters. when in reality, the 4th quarter is the only quarter than can be absolutely meaningless moreso than any other quarter.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:38 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?


No team had held the 07 patriots under 20 points besides us. We were lucky to have even had an opportunity to win the game with only 17 points.
How does that matter when there's only been 7 points scored with minutes left in the 4th?

Did or did not the defense relinquish a TD late in the 4Q after Eli had retaken the lead? Would that then not qualify as "blowing it?" How would that not be "blowing it" yet what the Pats defense is?

Just looking for some consistency. You can't have it both ways.


They did stop the pats again after we scored.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:38 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.Its interesting how you haven't denied to discrediting Manning. Which makes it very clear to me that you are very critical of Eli and obviously can't seem to give the guy credit for much of anything. Everytime someone brings sound reasons, you have to nitpick.

I don't know what else Eli could do to make you happy. Except disappear.


Who said I'm not happy with Eli?

Drez
04-10-2012, 12:38 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?


No team had held the 07 patriots under 20 points besides us. We were lucky to have even had an opportunity to win the game with only 17 points.
How does that matter when there's only been 7 points scored with minutes left in the 4th?

Did or did not the defense relinquish a TD late in the 4Q after Eli had retaken the lead? Would that then not qualify as "blowing it?" How would that not be "blowing it" yet what the Pats defense is?

Just looking for some consistency. You can't have it both ways.


They did stop the pats again after we scored.
I'm glad you're joking.

Drez
04-10-2012, 12:40 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.
And what does that have to do with it?


He said the 4th quarter is whenit really matters. when in reality, the 4th quarter is the only quarter than can be absolutely meaningless moreso than any other quarter.
That's a pretty skewed way of looking at things, particularly in the context of this discussion.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 12:40 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.
And what does that have to do with it?


He said the 4th quarter is whenit really matters. when in reality, the 4th quarter is the only quarter than can be absolutely meaningless moreso than any other quarter.

every HOF QB i've ever heard describe the game has said in one form or another "a QB's worth is measured by how he plays when the games on the line, on the biggest of stages"

lawls whole opinion is just off on this topic, its ok, he's allowed to be wrong...

i am baffled tho that ur trying to slight the importance of late game heroics, lmfao, is that how we're moving the goal posts back for eli now "well he should have made it so we didnt need to have a dramatic, gutsy, come from behind win in the waning moments"...like really?lmfao

jjj45
04-10-2012, 12:41 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.
And what does that have to do with it?


He said the 4th quarter is whenit really matters. when in reality, the 4th quarter is the only quarter than can be absolutely meaningless moreso than any other quarter.If Eli and the Giants had essentially won all our games by the 1st Q by scoring 50 points, then you'd find something wrong with that too.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:44 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?


No team had held the 07 patriots under 20 points besides us. We were lucky to have even had an opportunity to win the game with only 17 points.
How does that matter when there's only been 7 points scored with minutes left in the 4th?

Did or did not the defense relinquish a TD late in the 4Q after Eli had retaken the lead? Would that then not qualify as "blowing it?" How would that not be "blowing it" yet what the Pats defense is?

Just looking for some consistency. You can't have it both ways.


They did stop the pats again after we scored.
I'm glad you're joking.


[;)]

...they were a slight tip of the ball and about a foot away from connecting, though. Tom and randy, that is. There's definitely some defenses they could have scored on in that situation. Albeit a slim possibility. A field goal would have tied. AR pulled off almost the exact same feat this year against us.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:45 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.
And what does that have to do with it?


He said the 4th quarter is whenit really matters. when in reality, the 4th quarter is the only quarter than can be absolutely meaningless moreso than any other quarter.If Eli and the Giants had essentially won all our games by the 1st Q by scoring 50 points, then you'd find something wrong with that too.


You dont know me very well.

jjj45
04-10-2012, 12:47 AM
Who said I'm not happy with Eli?Apparently nothing we've been arguing about with you has you satisfied. It seems that you just aren't impressed with Eli for some reason.

Thats fine, more power to you, but cease with the miniscule arguments. Its getting ridiculous.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:48 AM
Also, in any win a game winning drive must have occurred. Whether or not it was the last score of the game or if it came in the 4th quarter is of no consequence.Wow..........anything to discredit what Eli does in the fourth quarter of games, when it really matters.


There are many games where a team has no chance of winning when the 4th quarter even begins.
And what does that have to do with it?


He said the 4th quarter is whenit really matters. when in reality, the 4th quarter is the only quarter than can be absolutely meaningless moreso than any other quarter.

every HOF QB i've ever heard describe the game has said in one form or another "a QB's worth is measured by how he plays when the games on the line, on the biggest of stages"

lawls whole opinion is just off on this topic, its ok, he's allowed to be wrong...

i am baffled tho that ur trying to slight the importance of late game heroics, lmfao, is that how we're moving the goal posts back for eli now "well he should have made it so we didnt need to have a dramatic, gutsy, come from behind win in the waning moments"...like really?lmfao

I just don't see how winning on a last minute drive is somehow more special than blowing the other team out.

I've always been a fan of dominance. these guys go out there to take apart the other team. What better way to demonstrate superiority over the league than a blowout win in the super bowl?

jjj45
04-10-2012, 12:49 AM
You dont know me very well.I know you like to arguer for the sake of arguing. An apt description is it not?

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:50 AM
Who said I'm not happy with Eli?Apparently nothing we've been arguing about with you has you satisfied. It seems that you just aren't impressed with Eli for some reason.

Thats fine, more power to you, but cease with the miniscule arguments. Its getting ridiculous.


You dont have to partake in them. There would then be less ridiculousness to go around!

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:51 AM
You dont know me very well.I know you like to arguer for the sake of arguing. An apt description is it not?


I just like to purvey my thought process.

jjj45
04-10-2012, 12:54 AM
I just don't see how winning on a last minute drive is somehow more special than blowing the other team out.

I've always been a fan of dominance. these guys go out there to take apart the other team. What better way to demonstrate superiority over the league than a blowout win in the super bowl?That is such an unrealistic expectation and you know it. The other team plays the game too. They obviously are the most elite and best that their conference has to offer.

Drez
04-10-2012, 12:54 AM
As for gw drives. Brady has two. And a third would have been against us if his defense didn't blow it for him.
Would you then say that the Giants defense almost blew it for the Giants in '07 had Eli not led us to a second go ahead 4Q td?


No team had held the 07 patriots under 20 points besides us. We were lucky to have even had an opportunity to win the game with only 17 points.
How does that matter when there's only been 7 points scored with minutes left in the 4th?

Did or did not the defense relinquish a TD late in the 4Q after Eli had retaken the lead? Would that then not qualify as "blowing it?" How would that not be "blowing it" yet what the Pats defense is?

Just looking for some consistency. You can't have it both ways.


They did stop the pats again after we scored.
I'm glad you're joking.


[;)]

...they were a slight tip of the ball and about a foot away from connecting, though. Tom and randy, that is. There's definitely some defenses they could have scored on in that situation. Albeit a slim possibility. A field goal would have tied. AR pulled off almost the exact same feat this year against us.
Fact remains, with under a minute left your defense better damn well prevent a score from 70-80 yards out.

Drez
04-10-2012, 12:56 AM
I just don't see how winning on a last minute drive is somehow more special than blowing the other team out.

I've always been a fan of dominance. these guys go out there to take apart the other team. What better way to demonstrate superiority over the league than a blowout win in the super bowl?That is such an unrealistic expectation and you know it. The other team plays the game too. They obviously are the most elite and best that their conference has to offer.

Most blow outs are usually the result of one side sucking as much or more than it is the other side being dominant.

lawl
04-10-2012, 12:56 AM
I just don't see how winning on a last minute drive is somehow more special than blowing the other team out.

I've always been a fan of dominance. these guys go out there to take apart the other team. What better way to demonstrate superiority over the league than a blowout win in the super bowl?That is such an unrealistic expectation and you know it. The other team plays the game too. They obviously are the most elite and best that their conference has to offer.


It's not an expectation, it's a comparison of events.

jjj45
04-10-2012, 12:56 AM
Who said I'm not happy with Eli?Apparently nothing we've been arguing about with you has you satisfied. It seems that you just aren't impressed with Eli for some reason.

Thats fine, more power to you, but cease with the miniscule arguments. Its getting ridiculous.


You dont have to partake in them. There would then be less <font size="4">ridiculousness</font> to go around!Oh the irony.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 01:02 AM
New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

The fact that you have to comeback in the 4th quarter means that for whatever reason you were in effective for 3 quarters. So the fact that Eli has more 4th quarter comebacks than other QBs does not mean he is more clutch than the QBs I mentioned it means he played without the lead more than they have. You can't discredit a QB for blowing out the opposition out or never relinquishing the lead.

The more you talk about the defense in the SB the more you show you don't really get my point.

I'll use a baseball metaphor. I'm an O's fan so let's say a pitcher for the Orioles is facing the Yankees best lineup of all time. The O's Mike Mussina has a 3.73 ERA and had an okay season. In fact his ERA is ranked 17th in the AL. The Yankees lineup leads the majors in batting avg, runs scored, and home runs. They've set all-time records for each category for all of MLB. It's considered to be the best lineup of all time. So here we are in the ALCS Game 1 and Muss holds them to one run for 8 innings, but the almighty Yankees take the lead in the top of the ninth 2-1. The O's Roberto Alomar hits a 2 run homer in the bottom of the 9th to win the game. Can you honestly say that Mussina collapsed or rolled over giving up 2 runs to the all world Yankees for 9 innings? More impressive than the 9th inning walk off HR is holding the best line-up ever to 2 runs over 9 innings.

The sport is different but the logic is the same for the 2007 SB. When I say "Strahan's last stand" I'm referring to the SB game not the whole season. That defensive effort was mythical and legendary. Brady himself laughed when a he heard Plax said we would hold them to 17 pts. Clearly he thought that was a joke. We held them to 14 points. Spags got his head coaching shot off that effort. It's the FEROCIOUS effort of the NYG D that gave Eli a shot at winning the game at the end of the 4th quarter. 5 sacks, even more knock downs- yes that counts as FEORCIOUS! Nobody even gave us a chance at being in the game. Key to victory was the DEFENSE- hands down.

Might I remind you that 2007 Drive of Eli's is reliant on an insane catch made by Tyree and an awful throw. We scored on a wide open throw to Plax. The receivers should get as much credit as Eli for that drive. There was no great throw made on that drive as in the 2011 SB. I just watched it again on YouTube. Great moment. The kid did what he had to do but it doesn't make him better than Dan Marino, or Peyton, or Elway, or Rodgers.

<font size="5" face="arial" color="red">I want you to say it. Repeat after me,"Eli is not in Joe Montana's league. Eli is not in Dan Marino's league. Eli is not in Elway's league. Eli is not as good as Peyton Manning. Eli is not as good as AR"</font>, and this is not even a real argument on any board unaffiliated with the G-men.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:05 AM
New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

The fact that you have to comeback in the 4th quarter means that for whatever reason you were in effective for 3 quarters. So the fact that Eli has more 4th quarter comebacks than other QBs does not mean he is more clutch than the QBs I mentioned it means he played without the lead more than they have. You can't discredit a QB for blowing out the opposition out or never relinquishing the lead.

The more you talk about the defense in the SB the more you show you don't really get my point.

I'll use a baseball metaphor. I'm an O's fan so let's say a pitcher for the Orioles is facing the Yankees best lineup of all time. The O's Mike Mussina has a 3.73 ERA and had an okay season. In fact his ERA is ranked 17th in the AL. The Yankees lineup leads the majors in batting avg, runs scored, and home runs. They've set all-time records for each category for all of MLB. It's considered to be the best lineup of all time. So here we are in the ALCS Game 1 and Muss holds them to one run for 8 innings, but the almighty Yankees take the lead in the top of the ninth 2-1. The O's Roberto Alomar hits a 2 run homer in the bottom of the 9th to win the game. Can you honestly say that Mussina collapsed or rolled over giving up 2 runs to the all world Yankees for 9 innings? More impressive than the 9th inning walk off HR is holding the best line-up ever to 2 runs over 9 innings.

The sport is different but the logic is the same for the 2007 SB. When I say "Strahan's last stand" I'm referring to the SB game not the whole season. That defensive effort was mythical and legendary. Brady himself laughed when a he heard Plax said we would hold them to 17 pts. Clearly he thought that was a joke. We held them to 14 points. Spags got his head coaching shot off that effort. It's the FEROCIOUS effort of the NYG D that gave Eli a shot at winning the game at the end of the 4th quarter. 5 sacks, even more knock downs- yes that counts as FEORCIOUS! Nobody even gave us a chance at being in the game. Key to victory was the DEFENSE- hands down.

Might I remind you that 2007 Drive of Eli's is reliant on an insane catch made by Tyree and an awful throw. We scored on a wide open throw to Plax. The receivers should get as much credit as Eli for that drive. There was no great throw made on that drive as in the 2011 SB. I just watched it again on YouTube. Great moment. The kid did what he had to do but it doesn't make him better than Dan Marino, or Peyton, or Elway, or Rodgers.

<font size="5" face="arial" color="red">I want you to say it. Repeat after me,"Eli is not in Joe Montana's league. Eli is not in Dan Marino's league. Eli is not in Elway's league. Eli is not as good as Peyton Manning. Eli is not as good as AR"</font>, and this is not even a real argument on any board unaffiliated with the G-men.

nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them

Drez
04-10-2012, 01:14 AM
New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

The fact that you have to comeback in the 4th quarter means that for whatever reason you were in effective for 3 quarters. So the fact that Eli has more 4th quarter comebacks than other QBs does not mean he is more clutch than the QBs I mentioned it means he played without the lead more than they have. You can't discredit a QB for blowing out the opposition out or never relinquishing the lead.

The more you talk about the defense in the SB the more you show you don't really get my point.

I'll use a baseball metaphor. I'm an O's fan so let's say a pitcher for the Orioles is facing the Yankees best lineup of all time. The O's Mike Mussina has a 3.73 ERA and had an okay season. In fact his ERA is ranked 17th in the AL. The Yankees lineup leads the majors in batting avg, runs scored, and home runs. They've set all-time records for each category for all of MLB. It's considered to be the best lineup of all time. So here we are in the ALCS Game 1 and Muss holds them to one run for 8 innings, but the almighty Yankees take the lead in the top of the ninth 2-1. The O's Roberto Alomar hits a 2 run homer in the bottom of the 9th to win the game. Can you honestly say that Mussina collapsed or rolled over giving up 2 runs to the all world Yankees for 9 innings? More impressive than the 9th inning walk off HR is holding the best line-up ever to 2 runs over 9 innings.

The sport is different but the logic is the same for the 2007 SB. When I say "Strahan's last stand" I'm referring to the SB game not the whole season. That defensive effort was mythical and legendary. Brady himself laughed when a he heard Plax said we would hold them to 17 pts. Clearly he thought that was a joke. We held them to 14 points. Spags got his head coaching shot off that effort. It's the FEROCIOUS effort of the NYG D that gave Eli a shot at winning the game at the end of the 4th quarter. 5 sacks, even more knock downs- yes that counts as FEORCIOUS! Nobody even gave us a chance at being in the game. Key to victory was the DEFENSE- hands down.

Might I remind you that 2007 Drive of Eli's is reliant on an insane catch made by Tyree and an awful throw. We scored on a wide open throw to Plax. The receivers should get as much credit as Eli for that drive. There was no great throw made on that drive as in the 2011 SB. I just watched it again on YouTube. Great moment. The kid did what he had to do but it doesn't make him better than Dan Marino, or Peyton, or Elway, or Rodgers.

<font color="red" face="arial" size="5">I want you to say it. Repeat after me,"Eli is not in Joe Montana's league. Eli is not in Dan Marino's league. Eli is not in Elway's league. Eli is not as good as Peyton Manning. Eli is not as good as AR"</font>, and this is not even a real argument on any board unaffiliated with the G-men.

nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them
Notice how he put it in red?

Drez
04-10-2012, 01:16 AM
New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

The fact that you have to comeback in the 4th quarter means that for whatever reason you were in effective for 3 quarters. So the fact that Eli has more 4th quarter comebacks than other QBs does not mean he is more clutch than the QBs I mentioned it means he played without the lead more than they have. You can't discredit a QB for blowing out the opposition out or never relinquishing the lead.

The more you talk about the defense in the SB the more you show you don't really get my point.

I'll use a baseball metaphor. I'm an O's fan so let's say a pitcher for the Orioles is facing the Yankees best lineup of all time. The O's Mike Mussina has a 3.73 ERA and had an okay season. In fact his ERA is ranked 17th in the AL. The Yankees lineup leads the majors in batting avg, runs scored, and home runs. They've set all-time records for each category for all of MLB. It's considered to be the best lineup of all time. So here we are in the ALCS Game 1 and Muss holds them to one run for 8 innings, but the almighty Yankees take the lead in the top of the ninth 2-1. The O's Roberto Alomar hits a 2 run homer in the bottom of the 9th to win the game. Can you honestly say that Mussina collapsed or rolled over giving up 2 runs to the all world Yankees for 9 innings? More impressive than the 9th inning walk off HR is holding the best line-up ever to 2 runs over 9 innings.

The sport is different but the logic is the same for the 2007 SB. When I say "Strahan's last stand" I'm referring to the SB game not the whole season. That defensive effort was mythical and legendary. Brady himself laughed when a he heard Plax said we would hold them to 17 pts. Clearly he thought that was a joke. We held them to 14 points. Spags got his head coaching shot off that effort. It's the FEROCIOUS effort of the NYG D that gave Eli a shot at winning the game at the end of the 4th quarter. 5 sacks, even more knock downs- yes that counts as FEORCIOUS! Nobody even gave us a chance at being in the game. Key to victory was the DEFENSE- hands down.

Might I remind you that 2007 Drive of Eli's is reliant on an insane catch made by Tyree and an awful throw. We scored on a wide open throw to Plax. The receivers should get as much credit as Eli for that drive. There was no great throw made on that drive as in the 2011 SB. I just watched it again on YouTube. Great moment. The kid did what he had to do but it doesn't make him better than Dan Marino, or Peyton, or Elway, or Rodgers.

<font color="red" face="arial" size="5">I want you to say it. Repeat after me,"Eli is not in Joe Montana's league. Eli is not in Dan Marino's league. Eli is not in Elway's league. Eli is not as good as Peyton Manning. Eli is not as good as AR"</font>, and this is not even a real argument on any board unaffiliated with the G-men.
Oh, so Eli is responsible for whether or not the defense allows the opposing offense to score? Good to know you have a grasp of the basics of football.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:17 AM
New England Patriots defense was ranked number 4 in 2007.
NY Giants “ferocious” defense was ranked 17 in 2007.

NY Giants defense played inspired in SuperBowl XLII but was hardly ferocious. Eli Manning had to take NY Giants downfield and score twice in 4th quarter because NY Giants “ferocious” defense couldn’t hold the lead. The defense stood on the sidelines on the last drive for NY Giants and watched as Eli Manning took the offense downfield, scored the winning TD all the while eating up as much clock as possible so that Tom Brady would not have much time against that “ferocious” defense.

The tone of that game was set when Eli Manning took NY Giants offense downfield to score a field goal in the beginning of the game and taking up 9:59 to do it. New England Patriots scored a TD on the next drive but didn’t score until the second quarter.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLII was mythical.

What Eli Manning did in the 4th quarter of SuperBowl XLVI was mythical. In fact, Eli Manning played close to flawless that entire game.

The teams that won SuperBowl XLII as well as SuperBowl XLVI were both flawed. Heck the contsant in 2011 was Eli Manning and his recievers. Our defense quit on Monday Night Football against New Orleans Saints in one of the most pathetic displays ever by a NY Giants defense. What did Eli Manning do in the face of his NY Giants defense quitting in front of a national audience? He threw for 400 yards and completed 20 straight pass attempts at one point. He never lost his poise and kept driving on and kept his offense focused and motivated while the defense hung their heads and embarrassed themselves. Good for us that Justin Tuck after the game finally became the defensive leader we needed him to be. Good for us that Antrel Rolle matured and started to also become a real leader that we needed. It was long and tough and there were a lot of times this past year that NY Giants were on the verge of collapse and through those times, Eli Manning held it together and kept us in it until the team came around.

With the exception of Joe Montana, no other QB on your list has done what Eli Manning has done in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl game. None of them has ever taken a 9-7 team that gave up more points than it scored in the regular season to a SuperBowl victory. Only Eli Manning has done that.

Eli Manning is one of the best QBs in football and it emcompasses so much more than stats.
This is a great time for our franchise and we have the greatest QB we ever had playing for us right now.

There is noone I would rtather have as QB of NY Giants more than Eli Manning.

The fact that you have to comeback in the 4th quarter means that for whatever reason you were in effective for 3 quarters. So the fact that Eli has more 4th quarter comebacks than other QBs does not mean he is more clutch than the QBs I mentioned it means he played without the lead more than they have. You can't discredit a QB for blowing out the opposition out or never relinquishing the lead.

The more you talk about the defense in the SB the more you show you don't really get my point.

I'll use a baseball metaphor. I'm an O's fan so let's say a pitcher for the Orioles is facing the Yankees best lineup of all time. The O's Mike Mussina has a 3.73 ERA and had an okay season. In fact his ERA is ranked 17th in the AL. The Yankees lineup leads the majors in batting avg, runs scored, and home runs. They've set all-time records for each category for all of MLB. It's considered to be the best lineup of all time. So here we are in the ALCS Game 1 and Muss holds them to one run for 8 innings, but the almighty Yankees take the lead in the top of the ninth 2-1. The O's Roberto Alomar hits a 2 run homer in the bottom of the 9th to win the game. Can you honestly say that Mussina collapsed or rolled over giving up 2 runs to the all world Yankees for 9 innings? More impressive than the 9th inning walk off HR is holding the best line-up ever to 2 runs over 9 innings.

The sport is different but the logic is the same for the 2007 SB. When I say "Strahan's last stand" I'm referring to the SB game not the whole season. That defensive effort was mythical and legendary. Brady himself laughed when a he heard Plax said we would hold them to 17 pts. Clearly he thought that was a joke. We held them to 14 points. Spags got his head coaching shot off that effort. It's the FEROCIOUS effort of the NYG D that gave Eli a shot at winning the game at the end of the 4th quarter. 5 sacks, even more knock downs- yes that counts as FEORCIOUS! Nobody even gave us a chance at being in the game. Key to victory was the DEFENSE- hands down.

Might I remind you that 2007 Drive of Eli's is reliant on an insane catch made by Tyree and an awful throw. We scored on a wide open throw to Plax. The receivers should get as much credit as Eli for that drive. There was no great throw made on that drive as in the 2011 SB. I just watched it again on YouTube. Great moment. The kid did what he had to do but it doesn't make him better than Dan Marino, or Peyton, or Elway, or Rodgers.

<font color="red" face="arial" size="5">I want you to say it. Repeat after me,"Eli is not in Joe Montana's league. Eli is not in Dan Marino's league. Eli is not in Elway's league. Eli is not as good as Peyton Manning. Eli is not as good as AR"</font>, and this is not even a real argument on any board unaffiliated with the G-men.

nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them
Notice how he put it in red?


i dont think he meant that the way red font is interpreted around here. the entire paragraph before the red font bolded statements he's saying exactly what is red fonted...and the entire post he's been repeating that premise...

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 01:19 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:23 AM
Ahhhh it figures that the person that started with the insults is the one that cries about it when they are directed at her.

Not surprising that you are going to use an analyst like Steve Young that once claimed "Mike Vick may be the best QB ever" to fortify your position.

Nice how in stating your case that NY Giants defense held the number one offense to 14 points that you failed to state that Eli Manning led NY Giants offense to score 17 points against a much better defense than the NY Giants did.

You can ***** and moal

First off I'm a guy. The gender symbol by the username should have been the first clue.

"Homer" was not meant as insult but as a statement of fact. You have to be ignoring the facts to state Eli is the best QB in the league or that he is on track to be the best QB ever based on one "great" year. I love my Giants too but tend to see things for what they are not what I wish they were.

If your going to claim Eli is the best give me something to work with. Watch the 2007 game again or reread some recaps. We were a 13.5 pt underdog. Do you remember how Brady reacted in thepress conference when he was told Plax said they would score 17 pts, he laughed. The defense was the MVP. Of course you have to give the award to one player, but the defense made it possible for the Giants to take the lead with one great drive by playing great D all game long.

We kicked Brady's #@# all game long. Eli did not put that team on his back. He was a major part of our success though.

Forget about anybody else or even the stats?

Does Eli have the best deep ball? NO Brady, Rodgers both have better deep balls.

Does Eli have the best accuracy? NO Rodgers, Brady both more accurate

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers? NO Brady is the best at this. Giants have arguably the best WR duo in the league. Plax and Toomer weren't slouches either.

Can Eli make plays with his legs? NO, multiple QBs can Rodgers, Vick, even Brees to name a few.

Is Eli the most clutch QB? Yes, It can be argued Brady is just as clutch. I say Eli is the most clutch QB. Rodgers has not played bad key moments in his young career.

Is Eli the best game manager? NO, P. Manning. followed by Brady.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions? NO, Rodgers, P. Manning, Brady, Brees all better.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems? NO, Brees was succesful with the Chargers and in the NO. Brady also has had different offensive coordinators and remained consistently successful.

These are facts. I consider Rodgers the best because he is the most accurate, he arguably has the best deep ball, he's the best at going through his progressions, and he can make plays with his legs. He's not more clutch than Eli and they both have talented receiver cores. There is nothing Eli does poorly except running, it's that he doesn't do some key things as well as the other QBs listed.

thats odd that each statement yuo apply to Eli and say "no" to is completely erroneous. lets start from the top:
Does Eli have the better deep ball?
Well considering Eli LED THE NFL IN PASS PLAYS OF 20 YDS OR MORE, I'd say certainly better than any other QB. Not to mention, Brady had an abysmal rating on passes 20 yds or more this past season. And not to mention in the head to head matchups with Brady and Rodgers, Eli ABSOLUTELY threw a better deep ball.

Does Eli have the best accuracy?
Again, in head to head matchups, Eli ABSOLUTELY had better passer accuracy numbers. Without looking up the exact stats, Eli DID have a higher completion % to go with more yards than Rodgers and Brady in the post season and in head 2 head matchups.

Has Eli done more with lesser receivers?
This one is subjective, which grouping do you like more; Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Branch or Nicks, Cruz, or MM...as its subjective no one can definitively win this one, although some one making the argument that Eli has won SB's with two completely different sets of wr's with completely different WR traits is definitely valid.

Is Eli the most clutch qb?
No explanation needed, YES.

Is Eli the best game manager?
Head 2 head vs NE, Eli has certainly managed the games better, less ints, more yards, and GW drives in THREE straight wins over NE.

Is Eli the best at going through his progressions?
How you can say NO and act like its gospel is beyond me. In the playoffs, some one arguing Eli was better than the rest is certainly valid considering the scheme we run and Eli having to decipher the holes in the coverage in a matter of seconds, I would say without a doubt Eli does. A good barometer of this could be 3rd down conversions, and in that aspect, ELI DESTROYED those QBs you listed...not to mention Eli DESTROYING those other QB's in pass completion % in head to head matchups and the post season.

Has Eli shown success in multiple offensive systems?
So we should penalize Eli bc he makes the hardest offensive scheme work? Before Eli and the Giants, KG's offense which is a blend of run and shoot.sight adjustment, no team had ever won a SB. Seeing as how Eli won TWO in this offensive system, while he hasnt had to be successful in different offensive systems, he's mastered the most difficult of any of the elite passers.

LMFAO, you call what you listed facts? If anything, you went AGAINST the facts and used your own flawed subjective reasoning.

Rodgers wasnt as accurate vs Eli when it mattered most. He def. didnt have the better deep ball all season, and Eli's 3rd down conversions indicate he was much better in going through his progressions, especially in the post season.

And you make the error of assuming someone stating Eli is the best QB now, that it means he's been the best QB for years. No, before this season Eli wasnt better than those QB's. After this season, imho, Eli clearly placed himself above the others. And seeing as how NFL.COM ranks him number 1, your "homer" argument makes no sense.

lmfao, "these are facts"...how you could state that is both hilarious and beyond me, but thank you I needed a good laugh.

each of your premises destroyed

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:23 AM
I love talking about football, and arguing over what we need, who we should draft, and who's the best. I honestly never saw an Eli is the best QB thread before this off season, not saying there wasn't one it just didn't catch my eye.

Quite predictably a lot people changed their mind about where Eli ranks as a QB after last year, me included. I've never hear somebody that wasn't a Giants fan talk about Eli as the best QB in the NFL or even worse on his way to being the best QB of all time. I talk about football a lot and most of my friends are football junkies that like I grew up on football.

It seems with our 2nd SB victory history has been rewritten. Now Eli took 2 extremely flawed teams an put them on his back. Now Eli overcame a "defensive collapse" in the 07' SB, when I clearly remember "Strahan's last stand" as the things that great defenses are made of.

I don't want to rehash my argument that's not what this is about. The board and thread shows that our fans are loyal and stick up for our guys. I think that's more important than who is the "best" even though it's clearly not Eli (I'm sorry I couldn't help it). How can a guy who never received 1 MVP vote let alon an MVP award be considered the best or on track to be best of all time?

Peyton Manning is better than Eli
Joe Montana is better than Eli
Dan Marino is better than Eli
John Elway is better than Eli
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
Our defense in the 2007 SB was mythical, legendary, Braveheart FEROCIOUS. John Henry aka Strahan and the boys took on the steam engine (Pats) and won that day.

Rodgers was my FF quaterback so anytime they didn't conflict with a Giants game I watched them for the past 2 years. I don't like GB but after watching the guy I'm set on who I think is the best until Eli makes more improvement. I want Eli to be better but I can't in good conscience say he is right now.

<font size="5">Is everybody in agreement that Eli was better than Sims?</font> I remember Simms being more accurate- granted he ran a smash mouth offense much different than the Gilbride offense. I have to be honest I still have Simms better than Eli. I'm tremendously biased. The stats tell me I'm wrong and I think I really just want Sims to be better b/c the 86' Giants is the way I most enjoy how football should be played. Share your thoughts.

do you not understand that the MVP vote is FOR THE REGULAR SEASON ONLY? That negates where Eli CLEARLY outplayed the other elite QB's...if the MVP vote was held after the SB, you really think Eli wouldn't get "one vote"...smh, I already went through your list of why Rodgers, Brees and Brady are better than Eli and ripped every one of your premises apart...

Eli HAD A BETTER DEEP BALL PASSER RATING.
Eli HAD A BETTER 3rd DOWN CONVERSION %
Eli HAD HIGHER COMPLETION % numbers in the playoffs

When you combine that with his clutch ability, if some one wants to say Eli is the best QB in the NFL and has the potential to go down as one of the best ever, who the F are you to say otherwise?

When the Giants played the Packers in the playoffs, you believe Rodgers played better than Eli??? Because EVERY statistic, Eli destroyed him that game, let alone led the team to a mmulti possession win...

Same vs NE, Eli destroyed Brady in every statistical category.

In the postseason, Eli HAD BETTER STATS ACROSS THE BOARD than any other QB.

Not to mention, Eli's numbers might have been affected seeing as during the regular season, the NYG had THE HARDEST SCHEDULE IN THE LEAGUE...while NE, GB, and NO had relatively easy schedules...in games where the opposition was the best of the best, which is the playoffs, Eli raised his level of play above the rest.

and once more, your premises destroyed

Drez
04-10-2012, 01:25 AM
i dont think he meant that the way red font is interpreted around here. the entire paragraph before the red font bolded statements he's saying exactly what is red fonted...and the entire post he's been repeating that premise...
I know. Was more or less just poking fun of him.

Drez
04-10-2012, 01:27 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)
So, you pulled the game center page of SB42 to support your argument. That's pretty ****ing dumb.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:27 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

um, who the f said eli was the best qb in 2007?? certainly not I. after the most recent SB, Eli proved he's the best qb in the nfl.

u sourcing that link just shows how completely clueless u are in this thread

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:28 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&amp;R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:31 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:33 AM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:37 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&amp;R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

To be honest, I could make a case for both arguments. I just feel one is more right than the other.

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:37 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&amp;R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

To be honest, I could make a case for both arguments. I just feel one is more right than the other.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:38 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

To be honest, I could make a case for both arguments. I just feel one is more right than the other.


yes or no, did ANY qb play at a higher level than eli in the post season?

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:42 AM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.

B&RWarrior
04-10-2012, 01:43 AM
Here's a great article related to the debate. It's kind of surprising coming from the Bleacher Report.

Who's the better brother? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1090869-eli-manning-vs-peyton-manning-which-brother-is-the-better-quarterback)

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:43 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&amp;R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

To be honest, I could make a case for both arguments. I just feel one is more right than the other.


yes or no, did ANY qb play at a higher level than eli in the post season?

What did I just say? I can make a case for both sides. I can easily dismiss the efforts of other QBs because Eli played well and helped his team win a championship, or I can look at the performances he had in further detail and make a strong argument otherwise.

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:44 AM
the disparity in play from the reg. season from brees rodgers and brady over eli is minimal...

the disparity in play from the postseason from eli over brees rodgers and brady is much bigger.

its ok, i wouldnt expect u to know what solid qb play looks like, ur a cowboys fan 8)

Yeah because we don't have a rich history of great QBs...

And this statement is absolutely wrong.

Eli in the regular season could arguably be looked at as the 7th best QB in the NFC, and really the only argument should be where he ranks after Brees, Rodgers, and Stafford, because those guys clearly had better regular seasons.



dont know if u missed it, but i never claimed he was the best qb after the reg season, his play in the reg season AND postseason elevated eli above the other elite qb's.

i know you dont want to answer this, but did ANY qb play better than eli in the postseason?
Did Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Brady play better than Eli in the postseason?

its not even close really

giantsfan420
04-10-2012, 01:45 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

To be honest, I could make a case for both arguments. I just feel one is more right than the other.


yes or no, did ANY qb play at a higher level than eli in the post season?

What did I just say? I can make a case for both sides. I can easily dismiss the efforts of other QBs because Eli played well and helped his team win a championship, or I can look at the performances he had in further detail and make a strong argument otherwise.




huh?????? eli outplayed every qb in the postseason and it wasnt even close...lol...its all good. no one's gonna change your mind, no matter the stats. its ok...

edit-higher completion %, higher yards avg, better td-int ratio, oh yeah, SB MVP...ur biased. i'm coming from an objective view point...eli is the best qb in the nfl right now, and nfl.com agrees...

Ntegrase96
04-10-2012, 01:57 AM
nfl.com disagrees with your last paragraph...and frankly, every premise you've made i and others have destroyed them.

You've destroyed nothing but your credibility. The link below from the source you quoted seems to support my argument. .

Nice Try (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008020300/2007/POST21/giants@patriots#tab=recap)

There's really no point to this debate B&amp;R. You're not going to change his mind regardless of how you back your claim. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it is.


lmfao. he's certainly not going to change anyones opinion sourcing the 2007 SB when no one claimed eli was the best qb.

we're saying right now, after the recent post season, eli ABSOLUTELY played at a higher level than rodgers, brees, and brady.

can you honestly say he didn't??????/

To be honest, I could make a case for both arguments. I just feel one is more right than the other.


yes or no, did ANY qb play at a higher level than eli in the post season?

What did I just say? I can make a case for both sides. I can easily dismiss the efforts of other QBs because Eli played well and helped his team win a championship, or I can look at the performances he had in further detail and make a strong argument otherwise.




huh?????? eli outplayed every qb in the postseason and it wasnt even close...lol...its all good. no one's gonna change your mind, no matter the stats. its ok...

edit-higher completion %, higher yards avg, better td-int ratio, oh yeah, SB MVP...ur biased. i'm coming from an objective view point...eli is the best qb in the nfl right now, and nfl.com agrees...

Eli played very well in the playoffs and against Dallas in the final game as well. Based on stats alone, Drew Brees was actually a better QB in the playoffs.

And based on your biggest 'clutch' argument, Drew Brees was more clutch than Eli as well. But before I get right into that let me give you a disclaimer.

The only strong defense Eli Manning and the Giants faced in the final 5 games of the season (including the season finale in Dallas) was the 49ers. A game in which Eli played pretty well. But versus a common opponent, Brees played better. He had a higher passer rating and he had two very clutch touchdown drives in the 4th quarter. However, the Saints defense gave up a last minute drive to lose the game as the clock struck zero.

But the difference between the two quarterbacks is that one was on the winning team against the 9ers while the other was not.

So can I definitively say that Eli was better than Brees? I really can't.