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jhamburg
12-09-2011, 05:18 AM
Luck is the more hyped prospect, but Newton has already been successful in the NFL. If you had the choice between Newton or Luck as a QB to start your franchise which one would you pick?

tonyt830
12-09-2011, 07:02 AM
I would go with Luck, mostly because he comes from a pro style offense and wont have to rely on his legs so much. The ability to read defenses has a lot to do with that.



Newton is just fortunate to have been taken by a team that has a run game, solid O-line and a couple of good TEs.

egyptian420
12-09-2011, 07:46 AM
Luck on a real team, Newton on a fantasy team.

BurnerNYG
12-09-2011, 09:32 AM
Cam Newton all day... we all seen what he can do and he's gonna get better as a QB which is scary. Luck, nobody knows how he's gonna pan out... he can easily come into the NFL and can't take the pressure.

BurnerNYG
12-09-2011, 09:44 AM
I would go with Luck, mostly because he comes from a pro style offense and wont have to rely on his legs so much. The ability to read defenses has a lot to do with that.



Newton is just fortunate to have been taken by a team that has a run game, solid O-line and a couple of good TEs.You're clueless... Newton threw for 3297 yds so far in his 1st year but you're quick to sweep that under the rug and say the man can't read defenses. Cam runs because he can, not because he has to. You obviously never watched him play. What's next... you're gonna compare him to Vince Young or Michael Vick?

Spizi
12-09-2011, 10:39 AM
I would go with Luck, mostly because he comes from a pro style offense and wont have to rely on his legs so much. The ability to read defenses has a lot to do with that.



Newton is just fortunate to have been taken by a team that has a run game, solid O-line and a couple of good TEs.You're clueless... Newton threw for 3297 yds so far in his 1st year but you're quick to sweep that under the rug and say the man can't read defenses. Cam runs because he can, not because he has to. You obviously never watched him play. What's next... you're gonna compare him to Vince Young or Michael Vick?

This. Cam is a beast.

juice33s
12-09-2011, 10:39 AM
Mel Kiper said luck was the best QB prospect since John Elway....take that for what its worth I guess

Raptor22
12-09-2011, 11:51 AM
Andrew Luck.

All day, any day


Luck has terrific measureables. Elite arm strength, and most importantly, elite intangibles. The NFL is in his blood. He's spent the last 4 years in a pro style offense, 3 of which were headed by a coach who stepped right in and won his division.

He not only knows how to "read" defenses, but how to dissect them. Luck has the potential (a much more real word with him than so many other prospects), to combine the best of Peyton with the best of Elway.

Newton may be a generational athlete, but Luck is a generational quarterback.

BurnerNYG
12-09-2011, 12:06 PM
Andrew Luck.

All day, any day


Luck has terrific measureables. Elite arm strength, and most importantly, elite intangibles. The NFL is in his blood. He's spent the last 4 years in a pro style offense, 3 of which were headed by a coach who stepped right in and won his division.

He not only knows how to "read" defenses, but how to dissect them. Luck has the potential (a much more real word with him than so many other prospects), to combine the best of Peyton with the best of Elway.

Newton may be a generational athlete, but Luck is a generational quarterback.
I was high on Luck during the offseason and the beginning parts of the season but I've watched him play several times this year and imo, he's highly overrated and in no way, shape or form is he gonna come in the league and have the same success that Newton is having in his 1st year. I'm willing to put money on that. Newton is gonna win Superbowls when the Panthers fix that defense... book it.

egyptian420
12-09-2011, 12:21 PM
Don't get me wrong, Newton is a tremendous athlete and a fantasy point machine...but how many wins has he gotten? At this point, I'd take Dalton over him.

BurnerNYG
12-09-2011, 12:26 PM
Don't get me wrong, Newton is a tremendous athlete and a fantasy point machine...but how many wins has he gotten? At this point, I'd take Dalton over him.
He has 2 less wins than Eli has this year. What's your point? He was the no. 1 draft pick meaning he went to the worst team in the league. Oh yeah, did I mention he's a rookie? Dalton couldn't hold Newton's jock strap.

ny06
12-09-2011, 12:49 PM
Don't get me wrong, Newton is a tremendous athlete and a fantasy point machine...but how many wins has he gotten? At this point, I'd take Dalton over him.
He has 2 less wins than Eli has this year. What's your point? He was the no. 1 draft pick meaning he went to the worst team in the league. Oh yeah, did I mention he's a rookie? Dalton couldn't hold Newton's jock strap.</P>


You obviously haven't seen any Bengal games this season. </P>


Dalton is the real deal, stats don't tell the whole story. </P>


For a rookie he plays like a veteran, he goes through his progressions, doesn't eye a receiver like most rookie qb's do. The one thing I am impressed about him is he releases the ball before the wr makes there cut. That is a veteran throw, usually takes a few years for a young qb to do that.</P>


I am not taking anything away from Newton, but don't discredit Dalton. </P>

jhamburg
12-09-2011, 01:16 PM
Don't get me wrong, Newton is a tremendous athlete and a fantasy point machine...but how many wins has he gotten? At this point, I'd take Dalton over him.
He has 2 less wins than Eli has this year. What's your point? He was the no. 1 draft pick meaning he went to the worst team in the league. Oh yeah, did I mention he's a rookie? Dalton couldn't hold Newton's jock strap.</P>


You obviously haven't seen any Bengal games this season. </P>


Dalton is the real deal, stats don't tell the whole story. </P>


For a rookie he plays like a veteran, he goes through his progressions, doesn't eye a receiver like most rookie qb's do. The one thing I am impressed about him is he releases the ball before the wr makes there cut. That is a veteran throw, usually takes a few years for a young qb to do that.</P>


I am not taking anything away from Newton, but don't discredit Dalton. </P>

Both players look great IMO, but you can't just compare records when one team has one of the best defenses and the other has one of the worst.

The Bengals defense is going to keep them in almost every game. Meanwhile Cam has to score virtually every time they have the ball for them to win.

IamGiantsfan
12-09-2011, 01:21 PM
Don't get me wrong, Newton is a tremendous athlete and a fantasy point machine...but how many wins has he gotten? At this point, I'd take Dalton over him.
He has 2 less wins than Eli has this year. What's your point? He was the no. 1 draft pick meaning he went to the worst team in the league. Oh yeah, did I mention he's a rookie? Dalton couldn't hold Newton's jock strap.</P>


You obviously haven't seen any Bengal games this season. </P>


Dalton is the real deal, stats don't tell the whole story. </P>


For a rookie he plays like a veteran, he goes through his progressions, doesn't eye a receiver like most rookie qb's do. The one thing I am impressed about him is he releases the ball before the wr makes there cut. That is a veteran throw, usually takes a few years for a young qb to do that.</P>


I am not taking anything away from Newton, but don't discredit Dalton. </P>
I think dalton is having just as good a year as Newton

jax5338
12-09-2011, 04:15 PM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.

jhamburg
12-09-2011, 05:20 PM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.

I don't see how you make that case. It's not a MVP-type award, so I don't know how much the team performance applies.

As far as stats go-

TDs:
Dalton 18
Newton 26

Pass Yards:
Dalton 2,644
Newton 3,297

Rush Yards:
Dalton 87
Newton 518

Yards/Attempt:
Dalton 6.83
Newton 7.98

NYfanatic
12-09-2011, 05:27 PM
I got to take Luck.
I think Newton will slow down a bit next year and be figured out by defenses.
Luck wont be so easy to figure out and I expect him to be another Manning.
Though the NFL should be stock full of NFL starting qbs next year.

jax5338
12-09-2011, 05:44 PM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.

I don't see how you make that case. It's not a MVP-type award, so I don't know how much the team performance applies.

As far as stats go-

TDs:
Dalton 18
Newton 26

Pass Yards:
Dalton 2,644
Newton 3,297

Rush Yards:
Dalton 87
Newton 518

Yards/Attempt:
Dalton 6.83
Newton 7.98

i should reiterate that i think dalton SHOULD win but i agree and think newton WILL win.

the way i feel is that the award should go to the most valuable rookie, which i feel is dalton by a mile. cam just puts up pretty numbers if you ask me. scores a lot of short rushing TDs and benefits from garbage time yards but isnt as reliable a QB as dalton. just my opinion.

Redeyejedi
12-09-2011, 05:48 PM
Depends on the offense a west coast offense I much rather have Luck. A vertical offense like the Panthers run Cam is better for

egyptian420
12-09-2011, 05:58 PM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.

I don't see how you make that case. It's not a MVP-type award, so I don't know how much the team performance applies.

As far as stats go-

TDs:
Dalton 18
Newton 26

Pass Yards:
Dalton 2,644
Newton 3,297

Rush Yards:
Dalton 87
Newton 518

Yards/Attempt:
Dalton 6.83
Newton 7.98

i should reiterate that i think dalton SHOULD win but i agree and think newton WILL win.

the way i feel is that the award should go to the most valuable rookie, which i feel is dalton by a mile. cam just puts up pretty numbers if you ask me. scores a lot of short rushing TDs and benefits from garbage time yards but isnt as reliable a QB as dalton. just my opinion.
+20....stats could be very misleading. He does put up tons of numbers and I take nothing away from the kid and I think in the future he could be better than big ben, but like you said, lots of garbage time points and his defense is usually on the field for a quick 1-2 and he's back out there.

Not to mention Dalton has a rookie WR to throw to, not Steve Smith. And Cam also has a great o-line and 2 amazing RB's and 2 really good TE's. Overall as an offense, I think Cam has more weapons to work with. If we're talking about the Giants here, I would rather Dalton be our QB anyday over Cam.

BlueSanta
12-09-2011, 06:39 PM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.

I don't see how you make that case. It's not a MVP-type award, so I don't know how much the team performance applies.

As far as stats go-

TDs:
Dalton 18
Newton 26

Pass Yards:
Dalton 2,644
Newton 3,297

Rush Yards:
Dalton 87
Newton 518

Yards/Attempt:
Dalton 6.83
Newton 7.98

Personally I think it arguement is pointless. They are both having great rookie seasons and you cannot compare these 2 teams in a vacuum. Cam has way more weapons around him on offense than Dalton does. However, Dalton also has a better defense to help him out too.

Statistically, they are not nearly as divided as you propose. You ommited some of the stats in Dalton's favor. Cams wins have come against some of the worst teams in the league(Indy, jax, Tampa, and Washington) Dalton has beaten better competition(Browns x 2 , bills , jags, colts, seahawks and titans).


Either 1 makes a strong case. I think Cam may win it on hype alone, but Im not sure it would be right., especially if Dalton goes on a little run and makes the playoffs which is possible as they have 3 easy(ish) games left which would give them 10 wins.

BurnerNYG
12-09-2011, 08:05 PM
When you break records like Cam is doing or you throw for 4000 yds your 1st year which Cam is gonna ultimately end up doing... hype isn't the reason you won an award.

To all the people that thinks Cam's numbers are garbage time numbers, you better go check the Panthers schedule. They were competitive in all of their games besides the one against the Titans... the ATL game was closer than the score indicates. They could've easily beat GB, NO, Detroit & Minnesota.

As far as Dalton making the playoffs... no way does Cincy, Baltimore & Pittsburg make it out of that division and until the Bengals can beat one of the bullies, they'll be the odd team out.

I love how you guys are in denial... I find it quite amusing. I said my peace, now it's up to Newton to continue proving you all wrong.

lawl
12-09-2011, 08:32 PM
Even if his numbers were in "garbage time"..pretty much every rookie QB to ever start in the league loses a bunch of games and is perpetually in "garbage time", yet they still weren't able to produce like cam.

Cam's a good player, he needs to learn how to slide though(among other things).

BlueSanta
12-09-2011, 10:54 PM
no way does Cincy, Baltimore &amp; Pittsburg make it out of that division and until the Bengals can beat one of the bullies, they'll be the odd team out.

If the season ended right now, Cincy is in the playoffs. They hold the tie breaker with many of the other teams vieing for wildcard spots and they dont have a very hard remaining schedule.

The AFC north is easily the best division in football right now.

BurnerNYG
12-10-2011, 01:07 AM
no way does Cincy, Baltimore & Pittsburg make it out of that division and until the Bengals can beat one of the bullies, they'll be the odd team out.

If the season ended right now, Cincy is in the playoffs. They hold the tie breaker with many of the other teams vieing for wildcard spots and they dont have a very hard remaining schedule.

The AFC north is easily the best division in football right now.
I think that'll be great if they make the playoffs and I'll be happy for Coach Lewis and the Bengals... the fans deserve it. I happen to like Andy Dalton... it only seemed like I was downgrading him because a few of the posters was trying to discredit Newton.

BurnerNYG
12-10-2011, 01:36 AM
I got to take Luck.
I think Newton will slow down a bit next year and be figured out by defenses.
Luck wont be so easy to figure out and I expect him to be another Manning.
Though the NFL should be stock full of NFL starting qbs next year.
You been singing this same song since week one. Keep hope alive.

jhamburg
12-10-2011, 09:23 AM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.

I don't see how you make that case. It's not a MVP-type award, so I don't know how much the team performance applies.

As far as stats go-

TDs:
Dalton 18
Newton 26

Pass Yards:
Dalton 2,644
Newton 3,297

Rush Yards:
Dalton 87
Newton 518

Yards/Attempt:
Dalton 6.83
Newton 7.98

Personally I think it arguement is pointless. They are both having great rookie seasons and you cannot compare these 2 teams in a vacuum. Cam has way more weapons around him on offense than Dalton does.* However, Dalton also has a better defense to help him out too.

Statistically, they are not nearly as divided as you propose. You ommited some of the stats in Dalton's favor.* Cams wins have come against some of the worst teams in the league(Indy, jax, Tampa, and Washington) Dalton has beaten better competition(Browns x 2 , bills , jags, colts, seahawks and titans).


Either 1 makes a strong case. I think Cam may win it on hype alone, but Im not sure it would be right., especially if Dalton goes on a little run and makes the playoffs which is possible as they have 3 easy(ish) games left which would give them 10 wins.







In most of the losses Carolina has scored 20 or more points and had a lead in the 3rd or 4th quarter. The defense let them down every time. If you switched the Bengals defense with the Panthers, Dalton would still be a good player but I can guarantee we would not be having this conversation.

Redeyejedi
12-10-2011, 10:55 AM
There totally different QB's. Luck is the ideal Bill Walsh West Coast QB. People keep saying Peyton Manning but Luck is closer to the skill set of Aaron Rodgers in a bigger body. He is very accurate short range to meduim range passer.Luck has great timing ,accuracy ,and mobility and this system highlights all these traits</P>


Cam Newton isa better fitfor a Don Coryellbase system. He is the superior vertical passer of the 2 QB's. Cam can get the ball down the field and is an exceptional deep ball thrower.Rob Chudzinski's offense fully uses Cams gifts to the max.Robs offense is a modified AC system that uses the Tight End a lot more. Not surprising since he was the Miami Hurricanes TE coach when they were putting out Bubba Franks ,Jeremy Shockey and Kellen Winslow.</P>

BlueSanta
12-10-2011, 12:31 PM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.

I don't see how you make that case. It's not a MVP-type award, so I don't know how much the team performance applies.

As far as stats go-

TDs:
Dalton 18
Newton 26

Pass Yards:
Dalton 2,644
Newton 3,297

Rush Yards:
Dalton 87
Newton 518

Yards/Attempt:
Dalton 6.83
Newton 7.98

Personally I think it arguement is pointless. They are both having great rookie seasons and you cannot compare these 2 teams in a vacuum. Cam has way more weapons around him on offense than Dalton does. However, Dalton also has a better defense to help him out too.

Statistically, they are not nearly as divided as you propose. You ommited some of the stats in Dalton's favor. Cams wins have come against some of the worst teams in the league(Indy, jax, Tampa, and Washington) Dalton has beaten better competition(Browns x 2 , bills , jags, colts, seahawks and titans).


Either 1 makes a strong case. I think Cam may win it on hype alone, but Im not sure it would be right., especially if Dalton goes on a little run and makes the playoffs which is possible as they have 3 easy(ish) games left which would give them 10 wins.







In most of the losses Carolina has scored 20 or more points and had a lead in the 3rd or 4th quarter. The defense let them down every time. If you switched the Bengals defense with the Panthers, Dalton would still be a good player but I can guarantee we would not be having this conversation.

Well, your prolly right, if they switched defenses Cam would have more wins.

But again,your ignoring the other side of the equation. How good would Dalton be if he had Carolina's offensive weapons around him?

It goes both ways.

jhamburg
12-10-2011, 12:36 PM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.

I don't see how you make that case. It's not a MVP-type award, so I don't know how much the team performance applies.

As far as stats go-

TDs:
Dalton 18
Newton 26

Pass Yards:
Dalton 2,644
Newton 3,297

Rush Yards:
Dalton 87
Newton 518

Yards/Attempt:
Dalton 6.83
Newton 7.98

Personally I think it arguement is pointless. They are both having great rookie seasons and you cannot compare these 2 teams in a vacuum. Cam has way more weapons around him on offense than Dalton does.* However, Dalton also has a better defense to help him out too.

Statistically, they are not nearly as divided as you propose. You ommited some of the stats in Dalton's favor.* Cams wins have come against some of the worst teams in the league(Indy, jax, Tampa, and Washington) Dalton has beaten better competition(Browns x 2 , bills , jags, colts, seahawks and titans).


Either 1 makes a strong case. I think Cam may win it on hype alone, but Im not sure it would be right., especially if Dalton goes on a little run and makes the playoffs which is possible as they have 3 easy(ish) games left which would give them 10 wins.







In most of the losses Carolina has scored 20 or more points and had a lead in the 3rd or 4th quarter. The defense let them down every time. If you switched the Bengals defense with the Panthers, Dalton would still be a good player but I can guarantee we would not be having this conversation.

Well, your prolly right, if they switched defenses Cam would have more wins.

*But again,your ignoring the other side of the equation. How good would Dalton be if he had Carolina's offensive weapons around him?

It goes both ways.



How much of a "weapon" did everyone think Steve Smith was at this point in his career before he had Cam at QB?

BlueSanta
12-10-2011, 12:55 PM
How much of a "weapon" did everyone think Steve Smith was at this point in his career before he had Cam at QB?

He made the pro bowl in 2009, just 2 years ago. Pretty sure people thought he was good.

Did they have Shockey? Or Greg Olsen? DeAngelo Williams missed almost all of last year

Are you trying to imply that Carolina doesnt have more weapons offensively? Because if you are, then you are just showing yourself bull-headed and the discussion stops here, there is no reason to discuss with a person who only admits what he wants and denies facts.

I am not saying Dalton is better, as I said above they are 2 very different players who are likely both in systems that fit their respective styles. If they switched teams I doubt either has as much success as they have now. I just think too many people are discounting what Dalton has done. The guy has done the hardest thing to do in the NFL as a rookie QB and that is play winning football. Furthermore, he did it in the toughest division in football.

Cam has been a monster and has shown he can play in this league. But, he hasnt shown he can WIN in this league. It will likely come soon enough. But for Dalton, it has arrived.

BurnerNYG
12-10-2011, 01:12 PM
Ok you say Dalton is winning in the toughest division, right? Has he beaten Pittsburg or Baltimore yet?

Cam has won 4 games this year, that's one more than Peyton in his rookie year and 3 more than Eli.

Cam is putting up winning numbers, it's not his fault the Panthers D can't stop a nose bleed.

Different strokes for different folks and I guarantee you that Carolina is gonna be a popular location come free agent time and with a few more high picks in the draft... they won't only be winning more games next year, they're gonna be a serious threat to go all the way.

BlueSanta
12-10-2011, 04:08 PM
Ok you say Dalton is winning in the toughest division, right? Has he beaten Pittsburg or Baltimore yet?

Cam has won 4 games this year, that's one more than Peyton in his rookie year and 3 more than Eli.

Cam is putting up winning numbers, it's not his fault the Panthers D can't stop a nose bleed.

Different strokes for different folks and I guarantee you that Carolina is gonna be a popular location come free agent time and with a few more high picks in the draft... they won't only be winning more games next year, they're gonna be a serious threat to go all the way.

Im not dispuing much of that. Cam has been a blast to watch.

Let me put it this way. Stats are nice, but wins are the bottom line.

The Panthers have 2 more wins this year than they had all of last year. They had a lot of big name free agent signings this offseason too. Many felt the Panthers had 1 of the strongest Free agent groups brought in.

The Bengals, on the other hand, have 3 more wins this year than all of last and they lost several players to free agency. In fact, many pundits said their had the worst offseason of any team in the league.

So give credit where it is due.

jhamburg
12-10-2011, 05:52 PM
How much of a "weapon" did everyone think Steve Smith was at this point in his career before he had Cam at QB?

He made the pro bowl in 2009, just 2 years ago. Pretty sure people thought he was good.

Did they have Shockey? Or Greg Olsen? DeAngelo Williams missed almost all of last year

Are you trying to imply that Carolina doesnt have more weapons offensively? Because if you are, then you are just showing yourself bull-headed and the discussion stops here, there is no reason to discuss with a person who only admits what he wants and denies facts.*

I am not saying Dalton is better, as I said above they are 2 very different players who are likely* both in systems that fit their respective styles. If they switched teams I doubt either has as much success as they have now.* I just think too many people are discounting what Dalton has done. The guy has done the hardest thing to do in the NFL as a rookie QB and that is play winning football. Furthermore, he did it in the toughest division in football.

Cam has been a monster and has shown he can play in this league. But, he hasnt shown he can WIN in this league. It will likely come soon enough. But for Dalton, it has arrived.





No, they have more weapons but I'm just saying, most people wouldn't have rated those players that highly before this season. We had threads about Williams and Olsen in the offseason and the overwhelming majority of posters were against those players coming here.

Smith had declining numbers for several years and really a bad season last year, most would have said that Smith and Shockey were well past their prime. Williams seemed broken down, Stewart and Olsen are just OK at their respective positions. Even now the only top-10 talent they have is maybe Smith based on his production. Other than him they don't have much else at WR.

The differences in the teams are much more pronounced on defense, where Carolina's is one of the world in the league and Cincy is one of the best.

NYfanatic
12-10-2011, 08:10 PM
I got to take Luck.
I think Newton will slow down a bit next year and be figured out by defenses.
Luck wont be so easy to figure out and I expect him to be another Manning.
Though the NFL should be stock full of NFL starting qbs next year.
You been singing this same song since week one. Keep hope alive.
Stats dont equal wins.
4-8.
Nothing special.

BurnerNYG
12-10-2011, 08:16 PM
I got to take Luck.
I think Newton will slow down a bit next year and be figured out by defenses.
Luck wont be so easy to figure out and I expect him to be another Manning.
Though the NFL should be stock full of NFL starting qbs next year.
You been singing this same song since week one. Keep hope alive.
Stats dont equal wins.
4-8.
Nothing special.
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.

NYfanatic
12-10-2011, 10:06 PM
I got to take Luck.
I think Newton will slow down a bit next year and be figured out by defenses.
Luck wont be so easy to figure out and I expect him to be another Manning.
Though the NFL should be stock full of NFL starting qbs next year.
You been singing this same song since week one. Keep hope alive.
Stats dont equal wins.
4-8.
Nothing special.
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.
Eli wasnt very good in his first couple of games. Besides who was his playmakers?
Tiki yes was great but he had a young Shockey and a Toomer who was ok.
Cams weapons he started out with are better &gt; then Eli had.

Rusty192
12-10-2011, 10:15 PM
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.its really sad that you have to dump on your own QB to defend a guy who isn't even on this team!

Go root for the Panthers already. It's sad Burner, it really is.

BurnerNYG
12-10-2011, 10:33 PM
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.its really sad that you have to dump on your own QB to defend a guy who isn't even on this team!

Go root for the Panthers already. It's sad Burner, it really is.
I wasn't dumping on him, you just read into it wrong. I'll never be a Panther fan but I'm a Cam Newton fan. I learned a long time ago not to make football bigger than life so I can make or take a joke about my team without getting all butt hurt about it. Those guys are getting paid millions and I'm just a mere spectator. Don't take nothing I say negative about Eli seriously because I'll be cheering for him tomorrow.

Rusty192
12-10-2011, 10:39 PM
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.its really sad that you have to dump on your own QB to defend a guy who isn't even on this team!

Go root for the Panthers already. It's sad Burner, it really is.
I wasn't dumping on him, you just read into it wrong. I'll never be a Panther fan but I'm a Cam Newton fan. I learned a long time ago not to make football bigger than life so I can make or take a joke about my team without getting all butt hurt about it. Those guys are getting paid millions and I'm just a mere spectator. Don't take nothing I say negative about Eli seriously because I'll be cheering for him tomorrow.I hear ya bro, and I know you was just trying to prove a point in defense of your boy, but to stoop so low - at the expense of your team lol dare I say shameful.

NYfanatic
12-10-2011, 11:08 PM
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.its really sad that you have to dump on your own QB to defend a guy who isn't even on this team!

Go root for the Panthers already. It's sad Burner, it really is.
I wasn't dumping on him, you just read into it wrong. I'll never be a Panther fan but I'm a Cam Newton fan. I learned a long time ago not to make football bigger than life so I can make or take a joke about my team without getting all butt hurt about it. Those guys are getting paid millions and I'm just a mere spectator. Don't take nothing I say negative about Eli seriously because I'll be cheering for him tomorrow.
I love Tebow and all but Giants before Tebow.
I will root for the Giants in any game against tebow..
Giants 4 life.

NYfanatic
12-10-2011, 11:09 PM
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.its really sad that you have to dump on your own QB to defend a guy who isn't even on this team!

Go root for the Panthers already. It's sad Burner, it really is.

He riped into me for not liking Cam.
So what? Apparently to him Cam will be the best player ever and beat the giants on a regular basis. Panthers apparently are the next dynasty.
But I dont believe it. Giants will beat cam and anyone that comes into their way.
I will take Eli over cam any day.

tonyt830
12-10-2011, 11:11 PM
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.its really sad that you have to dump on your own QB to defend a guy who isn't even on this team!

Go root for the Panthers already. It's sad Burner, it really is.
I wasn't dumping on him, you just read into it wrong. I'll never be a Panther fan but I'm a Cam Newton fan. I learned a long time ago not to make football bigger than life so I can make or take a joke about my team without getting all butt hurt about it. Those guys are getting paid millions and I'm just a mere spectator. Don't take nothing I say negative about Eli seriously because I'll be cheering for him tomorrow.you say you are not a Panther fan---well thats all well and good, but you want to be fan of a liar and cheater in cam Newton? LOL!! </P>


</P>


Defensive coordinators will figure him out next year and I can guarantee that he will be holding a clipboard in the next 5 to 6 years--mark that down. I wont compare him to Young or thatdog killer, you mentioned. He is a good atthlete I will admit, but when all is said and done, in 20 years Cam Newton will not be mentioned as 1 of the top 10, 20 or 50 players at his position. He is having a good rookie campaign, but he is not enough to lead the panthers to a wildcard. You put Newton on a team that does not have the offensive weapons the Panthers have and see how well he plays. </P>


</P>


But in my opinion, its really too early to tell how well Luck will or wont do in the NFL. He hasnt even taken a snap in the NFL yet. Luck may pan out and have a good to great NFL career, or maybe he has a subpar/clipboard carrying career. </P>

tonyt830
12-10-2011, 11:16 PM
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.its really sad that you have to dump on your own QB to defend a guy who isn't even on this team!

Go root for the Panthers already. It's sad Burner, it really is.

He riped into me for not liking Cam.
So what? Apparently to him Cam will be the best player ever and beat the giants on a regular basis. Panthers apparently are the next dynasty.
But I dont believe it. Giants will beat cam and anyone that comes into their way.
I will take Eli over cam any day.
maybe Burner should change his avatar to Cam Newton. But you like Tebow, at least he is of good character as compared to Newton and his lying and cheating in college.</P>


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Taking Eli out of the equation, I would take at least 15 current QBs over Cam Newton. We have not seen much of Locker yet,and I think Ponder will have a good career. He needs another couple of years. I think Dalton is going to be better than Newton. </P>

NYfanatic
12-10-2011, 11:24 PM
Eli Manning 6-6... nothing special. Ooops I forgot... he doesn't play defense.its really sad that you have to dump on your own QB to defend a guy who isn't even on this team!

Go root for the Panthers already. It's sad Burner, it really is.
I wasn't dumping on him, you just read into it wrong. I'll never be a Panther fan but I'm a Cam Newton fan. I learned a long time ago not to make football bigger than life so I can make or take a joke about my team without getting all butt hurt about it. Those guys are getting paid millions and I'm just a mere spectator. Don't take nothing I say negative about Eli seriously because I'll be cheering for him tomorrow.you say you are not a Panther fan---well thats all well and good, but you want to be fan of a liar and cheater in cam Newton? LOL!! </p>


</p>


Defensive coordinators will figure him out next year and I can guarantee that he will be holding a clipboard in the next 5 to 6 years--mark that down. I wont compare him to Young or thatdog killer, you mentioned. He is a good atthlete I will admit, but when all is said and done, in 20 years Cam Newton will not be mentioned as 1 of the top 10, 20 or 50 players at his position. He is having a good rookie campaign, but he is not enough to lead the panthers to a wildcard. You put Newton on a team that does not have the offensive weapons the Panthers have and see how well he plays. </p>


</p>


But in my opinion, its really too early to tell how well Luck will or wont do in the NFL. He hasnt even taken a snap in the NFL yet. Luck may pan out and have a good to great NFL career, or maybe he has a subpar/clipboard carrying career. </p>
I dont know if he will be holding a clipboard but is he is good with weapons. Strip him of it in the future and then you could see him with a clipboard.

tonyt830
12-10-2011, 11:25 PM
Don't get me wrong, Newton is a tremendous athlete and a fantasy point machine...but how many wins has he gotten? At this point, I'd take Dalton over him.
<FONT color=#ff0000>But he may throw for 4000 yards this season? But who am I, oh thats right clueless and sweep Cam's stats under the rug!</FONT></P>


<FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></P>


<FONT color=#000000>I'm with you, Dalton has stepped in and played pretty damnwell as a rookie in the AFC North. I think when all is said and done, Dalton will have had a better career than Newton. At this point, Cam's athleticism is great, but thats not been enough to help lead the Panthers to 4 wins, while Dalton has helped keep the Bengals in the wildcard race. I know I know, 2 different teams and 2 different systems, most will argue. </FONT></P>

tonyt830
12-10-2011, 11:29 PM
dalton should win rookie of the year. he's leading a team nobody thought was any good towards a playoff spot, with a fellow rookie at receiver and a pretty weak rushing game. all the while they play in one of the, if not the toughest division in the AFC and NFL.I agree, i think Dalton has done more with less. I would think that Dalton should win the rookie of the year over Newton. Its not all about stats in my opinion. Wins and keeping your team in contention should be considered.

BurnerNYG
12-11-2011, 05:11 PM
Although I like Newton, he's not very clutch at all. You got no business losing a game and turning over the ball when you're at home and up 23-7. If he's serious about being one of the best, he's gonna have to improve on his decision making late in the game. The 2nd half of the season, rookies aren't considered rookies any more.

midnite_nj
12-11-2011, 05:24 PM
Cam Newton all day... we all seen what he can do and he's gonna get better as a QB which is scary. Luck, nobody knows how he's gonna pan out... he can easily come into the NFL and can't take the pressure.Plus 1/ Cam all day. He is a s[ecial player and he is only gonna get better. By year 3, watch out. Hes gonna be a monster.

BurnerNYG
12-11-2011, 07:39 PM
Cam Newton all day... we all seen what he can do and he's gonna get better as a QB which is scary. Luck, nobody knows how he's gonna pan out... he can easily come into the NFL and can't take the pressure.Plus 1/ Cam all day. He is a s[ecial player and he is only gonna get better. By year 3, watch out. Hes gonna be a monster.I think he's gonna pull a Peyton Manning and be a monster next year.