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View Full Version : Is Boothe Our Best Center?



Kruunch
12-09-2011, 12:21 PM
Color me jaded but I think Boothe is more capable at center then Baas and Diehl has always been a better LT then Beatty.

I think right now we have our best offensive line playing of the year.

burier
12-09-2011, 12:27 PM
yes

RoanokeFan
12-09-2011, 12:27 PM
Color me jaded but I think Boothe is more capable at center then Baas and Diehl has always been a better LT then Beatty.

I think right now we have our best offensive line playing of the year.

One game with this alignment of players is not enough to tell, but they certainly did open holes for the running backs on Sunday and if that continues for the next four games, we should run the table.

burier
12-09-2011, 12:30 PM
Hes actually our only center at this point

titwio
12-09-2011, 12:34 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

burier
12-09-2011, 12:38 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You got some nerve throwing Pats name around when our "Upgraded" oline has played like *** all year.

Coach Carter
12-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Color me jaded but I think Boothe is more capable at center then Baas and Diehl has always been a better LT then Beatty.

I think right now we have our best offensive line playing of the year.

You are correct on both fronts sir.

titwio
12-09-2011, 12:52 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You got some nerve throwing Pats name around when our "Upgraded" oline has played like *** all year.

Lol...I was referring to him getting the depth ready. ...Which he has done a great job with. The O-line play this year has been bad due to inconsistency of vets such as Snee, K-Mac...along with a new LT and center who can't stay healthy.

I don't really think anyone looked at the O-line as being an upgrade when the season started.

RoanokeFan
12-09-2011, 12:57 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You just capsulized the team's philosophy of building with the draft and from within.

burier
12-09-2011, 01:01 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You got some nerve throwing Pats name around when our "Upgraded" oline has played like *** all year.

Lol...I was referring to him getting the depth ready. ...Which he has done a great job with. The O-line play this year has been bad due to inconsistency of vets such as Snee, K-Mac...along with a new LT and center.

I don't really think anyone looked at the O-line as being an upgrade when the season started.

I definately did.

I was never in love with Ohara and he had especially started getting on my nerves last season with the injuries and poor play.

Richie again was an injury problem

I was told Baas was a clear upgrade over an aging and oft injured Ohara.

I never cosidered David Diehl to be a legit LT and thought he'd be better suited for guard and upgrade the Richie and (Plug in random lineman) play guard by commitee situation we've had.

I was told that Beatty had made the leap and would be a signifact upgrade over Diehl at LT.

It wasn't like we were moving people around for the sake of it. JR presented us with what he believed was more talented Oline and they haven't performed.

Kruunch
12-09-2011, 01:02 PM
Color me jaded but I think Boothe is more capable at center then Baas and Diehl has always been a better LT then Beatty.

I think right now we have our best offensive line playing of the year.

One game with this alignment of players is not enough to tell, but they certainly did open holes for the running backs on Sunday and if that continues for the next four games, we should run the table.


Boothe has a history with the Giants and played superbly last year in the same capacity (and I believe he should be a starter).

Diehl has a history of excelling at the Left Tackle position (despite the garbage from the momos around here) so it wasn't surprising he'd be better then Will "Patty Cakes" Beatty (whom I consider as backup material).

Historically speaking and last week confirms ... Baas isn't our best center and Beatty isn't our best LT.

Flaherty is an awesome coach, but you can only do so much if the raw ability isn't there.

P.S. - You'll also notice that with a run game going, Eli goes from good to great in no time flat.

Kruunch
12-09-2011, 01:07 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You got some nerve throwing Pats name around when our "Upgraded" oline has played like *** all year.

Lol...I was referring to him getting the depth ready. ...Which he has done a great job with. The O-line play this year has been bad due to inconsistency of vets such as Snee, K-Mac...along with a new LT and center.

I don't really think anyone looked at the O-line as being an upgrade when the season started.

I definately did.

I was never in love with Ohara and he had especially started getting on my nerves last season with the injuries and poor play.

Richie again was an injury problem

I was told Baas was a clear upgrade over an aging and oft injured Ohara.

I never cosidered David Diehl to be a legit LT and thought he'd be better suited for guard and upgrade the Richie and (Plug in random lineman) play guard by commitee situation we've had.

I was told that Beatty had made the leap and would be a signifact upgrade over Diehl at LT.

It wasn't like we were moving people around for the sake of it. JR presented us with what he believed was more talented Oline and they haven't performed.

While I agree with Ohara, he was a better center then Baas and a great center when not battling injuries.

All that talk about David Diehl not being a real LT needs to go away. He's been the LT for years now and on some of the best Olines the Giants have ever had. And on an Oline that nearly broke the record for least sacks allowed in an NFL season and on the Oline that has produced the best Giants run game ever.

The fact that everyone made such a big deal about him being beat by Freeney last year is a testament to how good he is ... it's that rare that he gets beat.

And at this point, I'd say he plays LT better then he plays LG which he's struggled with at times this year.

I swear you guys watch an entirely different sport sometimes.

titwio
12-09-2011, 01:14 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You got some nerve throwing Pats name around when our "Upgraded" oline has played like *** all year.

Lol...I was referring to him getting the depth ready. ...Which he has done a great job with. The O-line play this year has been bad due to inconsistency of vets such as Snee, K-Mac...along with a new LT and center.

I don't really think anyone looked at the O-line as being an upgrade when the season started.

I definately did.

I was never in love with Ohara and he had especially started getting on my nerves last season with the injuries and poor play.

Richie again was an injury problem

I was told Baas was a clear upgrade over an aging and oft injured Ohara.

I never cosidered David Diehl to be a legit LT and thought he'd be better suited for guard and upgrade the Richie and (Plug in random lineman) play guard by commitee situation we've had.

I was told that Beatty had made the leap and would be a signifact upgrade over Diehl at LT.

It wasn't like we were moving people around for the sake of it. JR presented us with what he believed was more talented Oline and they haven't performed.

To me it was a bunch of question marks. Beatty was unproven but was a second round pick who the Giants felt could step up (Much like the same situation they felt about Sintim at LB) Baas was a guard who only played one season at center for the 9ers. And Diehl was shakey at LT and moved back to guard.

The thing sounded like an experiment to me. There was a lot of chemistry broken up for me to think it was an upgrade of any sort to what the Giants used to have. To me it looked like they just trying to patch things up.

YATittle1962
12-09-2011, 02:40 PM
yes
^

burier
12-09-2011, 03:12 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You got some nerve throwing Pats name around when our "Upgraded" oline has played like *** all year.

Lol...I was referring to him getting the depth ready. ...Which he has done a great job with. The O-line play this year has been bad due to inconsistency of vets such as Snee, K-Mac...along with a new LT and center.

I don't really think anyone looked at the O-line as being an upgrade when the season started.

I definately did.

I was never in love with Ohara and he had especially started getting on my nerves last season with the injuries and poor play.

Richie again was an injury problem

I was told Baas was a clear upgrade over an aging and oft injured Ohara.

I never cosidered David Diehl to be a legit LT and thought he'd be better suited for guard and upgrade the Richie and (Plug in random lineman) play guard by commitee situation we've had.

I was told that Beatty had made the leap and would be a signifact upgrade over Diehl at LT.

It wasn't like we were moving people around for the sake of it. JR presented us with what he believed was more talented Oline and they haven't performed.

While I agree with Ohara, he was a better center then Baas and a great center when not battling injuries.

All that talk about David Diehl not being a real LT needs to go away. He's been the LT for years now and on some of the best Olines the Giants have ever had. And on an Oline that nearly broke the record for least sacks allowed in an NFL season and on the Oline that has produced the best Giants run game ever.

The fact that everyone made such a big deal about him being beat by Freeney last year is a testament to how good he is ... it's that rare that he gets beat.

And at this point, I'd say he plays LT better then he plays LG which he's struggled with at times this year.

I swear you guys watch an entirely different sport sometimes.

What I was attempting to do was explain that the line is "supposed" to be upgraded but actually isn't

the logic behind the moves was that the moves would make the line better. So far that has not been the case.

As far as Ohara...He always seemed to struggled to achor a good pocket for Eli which would have helped earlier in Eli's career. Decent player but not great.

as far as Diehl...again we're talking perception vs reality. I thought he was ok at LT but felt he was more of a natural guard I believe Reese thought so too which is why he moved him (To improve the line not weaken it) it just didn't work out as planned and he does now in hindsight appear to be a better LT than LG.

That said...hes not a great LT and never was. He was a sufficient starter.

Eli doesn't take alot of sacks..He gets the ball out quickly and moves well in the pocket. Remember McKensie is the RT and he's probably put together one season that didnt make me want to vomit as a pass protector yet Eli never takes a bunch of sacks. Eli deserves alot of the credit for his typically low sack numbers.

Also lets not act like the only guy to whip Diehl's tail was Dwight Freeny once. He always struggles against speed rushers. Ware pretty much had his way with him twice a year. He was ok but definately upgradable which is what we thought we were doing.

Kruunch
12-09-2011, 03:45 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You got some nerve throwing Pats name around when our "Upgraded" oline has played like *** all year.

Lol...I was referring to him getting the depth ready. ...Which he has done a great job with. The O-line play this year has been bad due to inconsistency of vets such as Snee, K-Mac...along with a new LT and center.

I don't really think anyone looked at the O-line as being an upgrade when the season started.

I definately did.

I was never in love with Ohara and he had especially started getting on my nerves last season with the injuries and poor play.

Richie again was an injury problem

I was told Baas was a clear upgrade over an aging and oft injured Ohara.

I never cosidered David Diehl to be a legit LT and thought he'd be better suited for guard and upgrade the Richie and (Plug in random lineman) play guard by commitee situation we've had.

I was told that Beatty had made the leap and would be a signifact upgrade over Diehl at LT.

It wasn't like we were moving people around for the sake of it. JR presented us with what he believed was more talented Oline and they haven't performed.

While I agree with Ohara, he was a better center then Baas and a great center when not battling injuries.

All that talk about David Diehl not being a real LT needs to go away. He's been the LT for years now and on some of the best Olines the Giants have ever had. And on an Oline that nearly broke the record for least sacks allowed in an NFL season and on the Oline that has produced the best Giants run game ever.

The fact that everyone made such a big deal about him being beat by Freeney last year is a testament to how good he is ... it's that rare that he gets beat.

And at this point, I'd say he plays LT better then he plays LG which he's struggled with at times this year.

I swear you guys watch an entirely different sport sometimes.

What I was attempting to do was explain that the line is "supposed" to be upgraded but actually isn't

the logic behind the moves was that the moves would make the line better. So far that has not been the case.

As far as Ohara...He always seemed to struggled to achor a good pocket for Eli which would have helped earlier in Eli's career. Decent player but not great.

as far as Diehl...again we're talking perception vs reality. I thought he was ok at LT but felt he was more of a natural guard I believe Reese thought so too which is why he moved him (To improve the line not weaken it) it just didn't work out as planned and he does now in hindsight appear to be a better LT than LG.

That said...hes not a great LT and never was. He was a sufficient starter.

Eli doesn't take alot of sacks..He gets the ball out quickly and moves well in the pocket. Remember McKensie is the RT and he's probably put together one season that didnt make me want to vomit as a pass protector yet Eli never takes a bunch of sacks. Eli deserves alot of the credit for his typically low sack numbers.

Also lets not act like the only guy to whip Diehl's tail was Dwight Freeny once. He always struggles against speed rushers. Ware pretty much had his way with him twice a year. He was ok but definately upgradable which is what we thought we were doing.

Man you have some really unrealistic notions of what a good offensive line is.

David Diehl is a "sufficient" starter? That's like saying Carl Banks was a "sufficient" LB. Oh and except in 2008, Ware has only had one sack a year on Eli (ironically 2008 was the year the Giants were considered to have the best Oline in the NFL) since 2006. Ware's stats don't support your fantasy of him "owning" DD.

O'hara had been rock solid up through last year and injuries accounted for most of his off-play in 2010. I understand trying to get younger at the position, but let's give the guy just a little credit here ... he's been an outstanding center for us for years (one of the better FA signings this decade I might add). In contrast, Baas has played worse this year then any I remember O'Hara playing when healthy.

Eli deserves *SOME* credit for not taking sacks (although that's been a mixed blessing at best over the years) but the Oline deserves the *MAJORITY* of credit. It's not like we're talking about Peyton or Brady here ... Eli thrives because of the protection he's been afforded.

The shuffling of the Oline at *best* was going to produce the same results as we've gotten in previous years considering the talent we've used to replace our players with. At BEST. In reality, I can't imagine an intelligent person thinking that it was going to be anything remotely that good (and obviously hasn't been).

P.S. - I think you're out of your mind about McKenzie in the past, but the wheels do look like they're starting to come off now (successively worse seasons starting last year).

burier
12-09-2011, 04:14 PM
I chalk it up to Flaherty grooming these guys well and getting them ready.

Last year Seubert fills in at center and does a great job...Koets fills in and does a great job...And now Boothe fills in and is doing a great job.

You got some nerve throwing Pats name around when our "Upgraded" oline has played like *** all year.

Lol...I was referring to him getting the depth ready. ...Which he has done a great job with. The O-line play this year has been bad due to inconsistency of vets such as Snee, K-Mac...along with a new LT and center.

I don't really think anyone looked at the O-line as being an upgrade when the season started.

I definately did.

I was never in love with Ohara and he had especially started getting on my nerves last season with the injuries and poor play.

Richie again was an injury problem

I was told Baas was a clear upgrade over an aging and oft injured Ohara.

I never cosidered David Diehl to be a legit LT and thought he'd be better suited for guard and upgrade the Richie and (Plug in random lineman) play guard by commitee situation we've had.

I was told that Beatty had made the leap and would be a signifact upgrade over Diehl at LT.

It wasn't like we were moving people around for the sake of it. JR presented us with what he believed was more talented Oline and they haven't performed.

While I agree with Ohara, he was a better center then Baas and a great center when not battling injuries.

All that talk about David Diehl not being a real LT needs to go away. He's been the LT for years now and on some of the best Olines the Giants have ever had. And on an Oline that nearly broke the record for least sacks allowed in an NFL season and on the Oline that has produced the best Giants run game ever.

The fact that everyone made such a big deal about him being beat by Freeney last year is a testament to how good he is ... it's that rare that he gets beat.

And at this point, I'd say he plays LT better then he plays LG which he's struggled with at times this year.

I swear you guys watch an entirely different sport sometimes.

What I was attempting to do was explain that the line is "supposed" to be upgraded but actually isn't

the logic behind the moves was that the moves would make the line better. So far that has not been the case.

As far as Ohara...He always seemed to struggled to achor a good pocket for Eli which would have helped earlier in Eli's career. Decent player but not great.

as far as Diehl...again we're talking perception vs reality. I thought he was ok at LT but felt he was more of a natural guard I believe Reese thought so too which is why he moved him (To improve the line not weaken it) it just didn't work out as planned and he does now in hindsight appear to be a better LT than LG.

That said...hes not a great LT and never was. He was a sufficient starter.

Eli doesn't take alot of sacks..He gets the ball out quickly and moves well in the pocket. Remember McKensie is the RT and he's probably put together one season that didnt make me want to vomit as a pass protector yet Eli never takes a bunch of sacks. Eli deserves alot of the credit for his typically low sack numbers.

Also lets not act like the only guy to whip Diehl's tail was Dwight Freeny once. He always struggles against speed rushers. Ware pretty much had his way with him twice a year. He was ok but definately upgradable which is what we thought we were doing.

Man you have some really unrealistic notions of what a good offensive line is.

David Diehl is a "sufficient" starter? That's like saying Carl Banks was a "sufficient" LB. Oh and except in 2008, Ware has only had one sack a year on Eli (ironically 2008 was the year the Giants were considered to have the best Oline in the NFL) since 2006. Ware's stats don't support your fantasy of him "owning" DD.

O'hara had been rock solid up through last year and injuries accounted for most of his off-play in 2010. I understand trying to get younger at the position, but let's give the guy just a little credit here ... he's been an outstanding center for us for years (one of the better FA signings this decade I might add). In contrast, Baas has played worse this year then any I remember O'Hara playing when healthy.

Eli deserves *SOME* credit for not taking sacks (although that's been a mixed blessing at best over the years) but the Oline deserves the *MAJORITY* of credit. It's not like we're talking about Peyton or Brady here ... Eli thrives because of the protection he's been afforded.

The shuffling of the Oline at *best* was going to produce the same results as we've gotten in previous years considering the talent we've used to replace our players with. At BEST. In reality, I can't imagine an intelligent person thinking that it was going to be anything remotely that good (and obviously hasn't been).

P.S. - I think you're out of your mind about McKenzie in the past, but the wheels do look like they're starting to come off now (successively worse seasons starting last year).

Did you just Compare David Diehl to Carl Banks???? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I'm not the unrealistic one here (You may want to look up Carl Banks career stats).

And Ware does own Diehl. Doesn't mean that he a million sacks on him but if you watch the games He requires a lot of help to keep him under control and even then Eli has had to evade the guy alot. Again Eli deserves alot of credit for his sack numbers..

Speaking of which. I recent your insinuation that Brady has ll this pocket presence over Eli.

If you actually watch Brady play and don't just rely on this love fest the media has on him he gets more time more consistently then any QB in the past 20 years. When he doesn't get time he takes sacks and throws the ball to the wrong team. (as Evidenced by his last three games against the Giants...meetings with the Cowboys and meetings with the Jets.)

Again Eli for better or worse has done alot on his own to avoid sacks.

There's no argument McKensie struggles historically to pass protect and there's no argument that David Diehl is not and never was an upper echelon LT.

The running game was strong with him in that spot but we infrequently run the ball to his side. I'll call him an adequet starter and that's best I can do..a slight upgrade on Luke Petigout

nygsb42champs
12-09-2011, 04:17 PM
They looked good there Sunday. Lets hope they can do it again this Sunday.

Kruunch
12-09-2011, 04:46 PM
Speaking of which. I recent your insinuation that Brady has ll this pocket presence over Eli.

Lol

burier
12-09-2011, 04:50 PM
Speaking of which. I recent your insinuation that Brady has ll this pocket presence over Eli.

Lol

lemming

BigBlue wins
12-10-2011, 10:19 AM
Will "Patty Cakes" Beatty

I lol'ed real good. Pretty good reference IMO

miked1958
12-10-2011, 11:41 AM
Do we have a choice?

Joe Morrison
12-10-2011, 12:01 PM
That's what they are going with, just wish he was a little quicker back to Eli in the shot guy, kind of floats it back to him.

BParcells777
12-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Actually Boothe has been at Center and at Guard this year and whenever he's in the running game opens up

His only flaw is his Axx is so big Eli has trouble getting to the Ball

T-Murda84
12-11-2011, 05:16 AM
Diehl was shaky at Guard all season long and even during the preseason he didnt not look comfortable at Guard. I hear all this stuff about Diehl having trouble with speed rushers, but I think its bull rushers than gives him fits. Freeney and Ware would give any tackle fits....no one is saying that Diehl is a great LT, but the Giants have won the Superbowl before with him as a Tackle. Diehl had a hard time because Beatty and Baas constantly needed help as well. Pair Diehl up with some decent alongside of him, and u will see him much more comfortable.

I think this is the same reason Snee is having alot of trouble. Having to help Baas and a struggling Mckenzie. We are putting alot of pressure on these guards with inconsistent Tackle and Center play. I would like to see Boothe at Center and Petrus at Guard. I had enough of watching David Baas starting...I dont even know why half of the fans were excited about this pick up. Hes not even a true center. Jerry Reese needs to stop giving big contracts to "a jack of all trades, and a master of none" type players..

Captain Chaos
12-11-2011, 10:54 AM
Absolutely, he is a smart guy and can make the calls. Add Petrus' attitude and we may have a line again!

jomo
12-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Yes he is, not even close.