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Warchild
04-12-2012, 09:56 AM
I think it's the only two positions that make sense for us to pick. If Stephen Hill is available I think he is our pick, someone who can stretch the field for Nicks & Cruz.

If he is gone I think we go best available DE.

Yes we need OL / RB / TE help, but those positions aren't as highly valued by our front office. Skill positions (WR / DE / CB ) always seem to come first.

Shockeystays08
04-12-2012, 10:34 AM
DE very possible if it's the right one. No on WR ,
Jernigan is our # 3. I think we get insurance for Nicks not a compliment to him. We already have Cruz and Jernigan for that. Plus is Hixon done? We don't spend a one here especially on a guy like Hill. Comes from the wrong system at Ga Tech to come right in and play for us. Also, he has questionable production in college, though the system did not feature him. Showed some spunk at the combine and could be a good option at 2 but I 'd rather address it in round 4,5,or 6. There is good depth at WR in this draft. I think I would like DT rather than DE in round one -
Worthy?

paul007
04-12-2012, 12:32 PM
DE or DT in round 1, not WR

Brandon jacobs
04-12-2012, 01:00 PM
We picked up a DT. I think we pickup DE insurance for OSI's slot.maybe NOT in the first picks but somewhere in the draft. our WR core is excellent.

Tommy_Ribs
04-12-2012, 01:11 PM
Kendall Wright or Ruben Randle at WR would be great if they are there, but I'd love to get another good young DE if we could. Osi and Kiwi are on the last years of their deals, so grabbing a guy that can be a talented contributor at that spot in his second year is a great idea.

Reese will probably go BPA, but I think he'll look real hard at pulling the trigger on a DE if a good one is there like Nick Perry.

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 01:11 PM
I think it's the only two positions that make sense for us to pick. If Stephen Hill is available I think he is our pick, someone who can stretch the field for Nicks &amp; Cruz. If he is gone I think we go best available DE. Yes we need OL / RB / TE help, but those positions aren't as highly valued by our front office. Skill positions (WR / DE / CB ) always seem to come first.</P>


We have probably the bestgroup of DE's in the league and one of, if not <U>thee </U>most prolific WR tandem in the NFL.</P>


How on earth are these our two biggest needs in the draft?</P>


O line, RB, LB, safety are all more important needs.</P>

Tommy_Ribs
04-12-2012, 01:12 PM
I think it's the only two positions that make sense for us to pick. If Stephen Hill is available I think he is our pick, someone who can stretch the field for Nicks &amp; Cruz. If he is gone I think we go best available DE. Yes we need OL / RB / TE help, but those positions aren't as highly valued by our front office. Skill positions (WR / DE / CB ) always seem to come first.</p>


We have probably the bestgroup of DE's in the league and one of, if not <u>thee </u>most prolific WR tandem in the NFL.</p>


How on earth are these our two biggest needs in the draft?</p>


O line, RB, LB, safety are all more important needs.</p>
Osi and Kiwi are in the last years of their deal, we just lost Tollefson, and Tuck gets nicked up.

A guy like Nick Perry is a good pick if he is there at 32.

IamGiantsfan
04-12-2012, 01:15 PM
But we have Kiwi, Osi, Tuck, & JPP, and we have Nicks, Cruz, Jerrigan, and a bunch of other wr's :O

Roswell777
04-12-2012, 01:17 PM
Please give me a break away scat back in the mold of Meggett or Sproles. A guy who returns punts, not fair catches them and also is a third down nightmare for D coordinators.

Please.

I am asking nicely.

Brandon jacobs
04-12-2012, 01:19 PM
But we have Kiwi, Osi, Tuck, & JPP, and we have Nicks, Cruz, Jerrigan, and a bunch of other wr's :O

Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily. need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.

NYG4lifeNYK
04-12-2012, 01:20 PM
Not a chance we take a DE in the first round. There are no good DE's in this draft that warrant a 1st round pick.


DT on the other hand is a very real possibility.

Tommy_Ribs
04-12-2012, 01:21 PM
Please give me a break away scat back in the mold of Meggett or Sproles.

Please.

I am asking nicely.

LaMichael James would be a GREAT pick in Round 2 for us.

Get Eli a weapon to throw short passes too like Drew Brees has, and see Eli p[lay even better this year.

I am with you on that!

Shockeystays08
04-12-2012, 01:23 PM
Not a chance we take a DE in the first round. There are no good DE's in this draft that warrant a 1st round pick.


DT on the other hand is a very real possibility.

I agree!

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 01:24 PM
I think it's the only two positions that make sense for us to pick. If Stephen Hill is available I think he is our pick, someone who can stretch the field for Nicks &amp; Cruz. If he is gone I think we go best available DE. Yes we need OL / RB / TE help, but those positions aren't as highly valued by our front office. Skill positions (WR / DE / CB ) always seem to come first.</P>


We have probably the bestgroup of DE's in the league and one of, if not <U>thee </U>most prolific WR tandem in the NFL.</P>


How on earth are these our two biggest needs in the draft?</P>


O line, RB, LB, safety are all more important needs.</P>



Osi and Kiwi are in the last years of their deal, we just lost Tollefson, and Tuck gets nicked up.

A guy like Nick Perry is a good pick if he is there at 32.
</P>


I can't predict what JR will do of course, but to say that these 2 positions are the only real options makes no sense to me. I suppose you could make a case for almost any position on the field, but to say that these are the only 2 logical options.................?</P>


How about our RB position? Our starter has chronic foot problems and our back up wouldn't make the roster on many other teams. Brown didn't see the field last year and will start the season on suspension, and Scott is completely unproven.</P>


DT is thin, O line is very uncertain and we are also thin at safety and our backup CB's are a huge question mark.</P>


BUT</P>


Our two starting WR's had 2700 yards together and our DE's are great. And these are the positions he claims are our most glairing needs. Enough so for him to say that no other position is an option.</P>


The OP makes no sense to me.</P>

NYG4lifeNYK
04-12-2012, 01:24 PM
<font size="5">Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily.</font> need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.

Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 01:28 PM
Please give me a break away scat back in the mold of Meggett or Sproles. Please. I am asking nicely.

LaMichael James would be a GREAT pick in Round 2 for us.

Get Eli a weapon to throw short passes too like Drew Brees has, and see Eli p[lay even better this year.

I am with you on that!
</P>


James has a huge bust factor....HUGE!!!. </P>


One of the things that bugs me the most about him is that in a must win game late in the season against USC, he was benched for lack of productivity in the 4th quarter. And when he was on the bench they were moving the ball up and down the field at will.</P>


You can never know how these guys translate to the NFL, but I see a huge red flag with James.</P>

Shockeystays08
04-12-2012, 01:30 PM
Kendall Wright or Ruben Randle at WR would be great if they are there, but I'd love to get another good young DE if we could.* Osi and Kiwi are on the last years of their deals, so grabbing a guy that can be a talented contributor at that spot in his second year is a great idea.

Reese will probably go BPA, but I think he'll look real hard at pulling the trigger on a DE if a good one is there like Nick Perry.


IMO Randle is a bad choice. Very little production vs top DB's. Example - vs Alabama twice last year total catches in 2 games 5. For a whopping 32 yards. He was invisible in the National Championship Game. I live in Alabama and see slot of the SEC and LSU. Randle is an imposter we don't need. I like Wright but we don't have the need to take a WR in round 1.

Spizi
04-12-2012, 02:05 PM
<font size="5">Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily.</font> need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.

Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694


This is why people shouldn't pretend to be message board GMs. They hear one thing from these supposed "experts" on tv and then they form their opinions around that. Unless you have watched extensive tape on a player exclusively, then don't comment on their play because chances are you don't know ****. That video clearly shows that Osi CAN play the run.

Giants Of New Jersey
04-12-2012, 02:10 PM
Reese will try to go BPA ...if there is a cant miss prospect, I think he will take him no matter what position...with that being said, I think it would be hard to pass on a very capable DT or RB Doug Martin. We all know Bradshaw's injury history. I personally would love Da'Rell Scott to step up, but I get a feeling that the team isn't so high on him the way I am.

Kase-1
04-12-2012, 02:10 PM
Other than Floyd and Blackmon, I dont think there are any WRs worth a 1st round pick. I have a feeling that one of the big talent DEs or DTs is gonna drop to us and we'll snag him up.

Osi may be leaving after this season
Tuck is constantly fighting injury and isnt getting younger
Tolly is gone
JPP is AMAZING

At DT we have 2 excellent DTs with Canty and LJ, but after that we have marvin Austin who hasnt played in 2years and practice squad players.

This game is won in the trenches and the draft is stock full of talent in the trenches

nygsb42champs
04-12-2012, 02:17 PM
Neither. Those are positions we have some depth at. Who is our RB behind Bradshaw? No one thats who. That is the way we should go in round 1.

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 03:09 PM
<FONT size=5>Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily.</FONT> need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.

Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694
This is why people shouldn't pretend to be message board GMs. They hear one thing from these supposed "experts" on tv and then they form their opinions around that. Unless you have watched extensive tape on a player exclusively, then don't comment on their play because chances are you don't know ****. That video clearly shows that Osi CAN play the run.</P>


Lets me translate what you just said......</P>


"You guys think your smarter than JR and actually have no idea about these players and have no basis to give an opinion....BTW....here's my opinion..........."</P>


</P>


Its a football message board. giving our two bit opinions is what its all about. Your "holier than thou" attitude is misplaced.</P>

slipknottin
04-12-2012, 03:17 PM
<font size="5">Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily.</font> need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.

Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694


I applaud you sir. Also love the "Osi only is a speed rusher"... Of course 1:35 in the video would show otherwise...

rxc999
04-12-2012, 03:20 PM
DE..or even OT

myles2424
04-12-2012, 03:53 PM
Dline has a better chance imo......if we can get BPA & need at the same time Jerry won't pass.....
Although WR is a bigger need imo,I don't see anyone being worth 32...

Shockeystays08
04-12-2012, 03:54 PM
Other than Floyd and Blackmon, I dont think there are any WRs worth a 1st round pick.* I have a feeling that one of the big talent DEs or DTs is gonna drop to us and we'll snag him up.

Osi may be leaving after this season
Tuck is constantly fighting injury and isnt getting younger
Tolly is gone
JPP is AMAZING

At DT we have 2 excellent DTs with Canty and LJ, but after that we have marvin Austin who hasnt played in 2years and practice squad players.

This game is won in the trenches and the draft is stock full of talent in the trenches


+1

rxc999
04-12-2012, 04:03 PM
like sanu as well in 2nd round..but doubt he'll be there.

gmen0820
04-12-2012, 04:07 PM
Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694
You're right. Osi is great.

But Terrell Thomas, what a bum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

B&RWarrior
04-12-2012, 04:25 PM
<FONT size=5>Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily.</FONT> need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.

Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694
This is why people shouldn't pretend to be message board GMs. They hear one thing from these supposed "experts" on tv and then they form their opinions around that. Unless you have watched extensive tape on a player exclusively, then don't comment on their play because chances are you don't know ****. That video clearly shows that Osi CAN play the run.</P>


Lets me translate what you just said......</P>


"You guys think your smarter than JR and actually have no idea about these players and have no basis to give an opinion....BTW....here's my opinion..........."</P>


*</P>


Its a football message board.* giving our two bit opinions is what its all about.* Your "holier than thou" attitude is misplaced.</P>

The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender.

Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run. His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.

This isn't an argument. Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".

I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.

lawl
04-12-2012, 04:28 PM
I think it's the only two positions that make sense for us to pick. If Stephen Hill is available I think he is our pick, someone who can stretch the field for Nicks & Cruz. If he is gone I think we go best available DE. Yes we need OL / RB / TE help, but those positions aren't as highly valued by our front office. Skill positions (WR / DE / CB ) always seem to come first.</P>


We have probably the best*group of DE's in the league and one of, if not <U>thee </U>most prolific WR tandem in the NFL.</P>


How on earth are these our two biggest needs in the draft?</P>


O line, RB, LB, safety are all more important needs.</P>

WR dt and de are positions of need because they're all more valuable than the positions you listed. Contracts and potential injuries at these positions also bump up the need to have more of these players on our team.

slipknottin
04-12-2012, 04:30 PM
The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender.

Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.


Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run.

absolutely false.


His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.
False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.


Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".

He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.


I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.

Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.

lawl
04-12-2012, 04:30 PM
<FONT size=5>Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily.</FONT> need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.

Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694
This is why people shouldn't pretend to be message board GMs. They hear one thing from these supposed "experts" on tv and then they form their opinions around that. Unless you have watched extensive tape on a player exclusively, then don't comment on their play because chances are you don't know ****. That video clearly shows that Osi CAN play the run.</P>


Lets me translate what you just said......</P>


"You guys think your smarter than JR and actually have no idea about these players and have no basis to give an opinion....BTW....here's my opinion..........."</P>


*</P>


Its a football message board.* giving our two bit opinions is what its all about.* Your "holier than thou" attitude is misplaced.</P>

The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender.

Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run. His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.

This isn't an argument. Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".

I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.

He was benched because Sheridan wanted him to be a two gap de and line head up on the LT. Obviously, this was an awful idea.

NYG4lifeNYK
04-12-2012, 04:41 PM
<font size="5">Osi is easily negated by the run and gets taken out of the game easily.</font> need a guy who can get around the end and stretch the line out and help allow a DE blitz or LB blitz.

Oh yea? We are back on that fallacy again are we?


Go ahead and watch this Osi video for me and for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlKDo_m694


I applaud you sir. Also love the "Osi only is a speed rusher"... Of course 1:35 in the video would show otherwise...

Lol gotta love all the fallacies on this board..... the only other player as <u>great</u> as Osi that gets so much heat is Eli.

I love the people that criticize osi but have a man crush on Freeney.. guy has never even recorded more than 41 tackles... he only averages something like 28-29 tackles a season..

Osi averages about 42 and didn't even start his first two seasons.

NYG4lifeNYK
04-12-2012, 04:44 PM
The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender.

Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.


Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run.

absolutely false.


His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes.
False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.


Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread".

He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.


I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run.

Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.

Agreed with everything.


Also another reason Osi was benched is because Sheridan was grasping at straws trying to save his job. Osi was a scapegoat of the defense that year. That's when everyone claimed Osi became a "cancer" ..... [:|]

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 05:13 PM
The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender. Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.
Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run. absolutely false.
His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes. False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.
Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread". He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.
I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run. Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.

Agreed with everything.


Also another reason Osi was benched is because Sheridan was grasping at straws trying to save his job. Osi was a scapegoat of the defense that year. That's when everyone claimed Osi became a "cancer" ..... [:|]
</P>


You guys drive me nuts.</P>


<U>Osi is a part time player right now</U>. Tuck and JPP are the starting DE's. Osi spells those guys and plays in the passing down package.</P>


He is not a full time, complete DE. Its not just Sheridan, its Fewell as well and by extension of both its Tom Coughlin.</P>


Yes Osi <U>can</U> play the run, when he feels like it. (which is every once in a while) and when he gets off this rediculous tendancy to play without dicipline. (which is more than every once in a while)</P>

lawl
04-12-2012, 05:19 PM
The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender. Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.
Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run. absolutely false.
His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes. False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.
Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread". He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.
I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run. Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.

Agreed with everything.


Also another reason Osi was benched is because Sheridan was grasping at straws trying to save his job. Osi was a scapegoat of the defense that year. That's when everyone claimed Osi became a "cancer" ..... [:|]
</P>


You guys drive me nuts.</P>


<U>Osi is a part time player right now</U>.* Tuck and JPP are the starting DE's.* Osi spells those guys and plays in the passing down package.</P>


He is not a full time, complete DE.* Its not just Sheridan, its Fewell as well and by extension of both its Tom Coughlin.</P>


Yes Osi <U>can</U> play the run, when he feels like it. (which is every once in a while) and when he gets off this rediculous tendancy to play without dicipline. (which is more than every once in a while)</P>

And before that, kiwi was a part time player behind Osi and tuck. And before that, tuck was a part time player behind osi and strahan.

He just isn't better than jpp so of course he isn't a starter. That fact is not an indication that he is either good or bad against the run. It means jpp is better than osi.

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 05:23 PM
The guys been in the league for about 8 years now. It's not hard to put together a 5 minute highight reel for almost any 8 year vet, let alone a pro bowler. It doesn't mean he's a good run defender. Theres a ton more video of him playing great against the run. He is absolutely a solid run defender.
Over his career Osi has consistently been a liabilty versus the run. absolutely false.
His favorite edge rushing move usually takes him out of any running play. The last couple of years he has sacraficed some of the edge he can get with his outside move to defend running lanes. False again. Upfield rush is not a liability against the run. His "gap" is the outside of the tackle. Hes not supposed to two gap on the tackle and take both inside and outside.
Osi has been benched because of his lack of run defense support. It's not from an inability to play the run in my opinion it is because he values sacks more than solid run defense. As he put it sacks and his edge rush move is where he "butters his bread". He was benched because a horrible D-coordinator decided he wanted the DEs two-gapping and playing head up on a tackle. That and then the stupid 50 front. Just an awful defensive system for the players the giants have.
I don't think that I and other Giants fans that don't think Osi is a good run defender are wrong. I think the problem is I watched Strahan- arguably the best run defending DE in the history of the NFL- all those years defend the run and I hold Osi to that standard, which is unfair. Still at best he's average versus the run. Average against the run doesnt mean hes a liability against it. There are plenty of DEs far worse against the run than Osi.

Agreed with everything.


Also another reason Osi was benched is because Sheridan was grasping at straws trying to save his job. Osi was a scapegoat of the defense that year. That's when everyone claimed Osi became a "cancer" ..... [:|]
</P>


You guys drive me nuts.</P>


<U>Osi is a part time player right now</U>. Tuck and JPP are the starting DE's. Osi spells those guys and plays in the passing down package.</P>


He is not a full time, complete DE. Its not just Sheridan, its Fewell as well and by extension of both its Tom Coughlin.</P>


Yes Osi <U>can</U> play the run, when he feels like it. (which is every once in a while) and when he gets off this rediculous tendancy to play without dicipline. (which is more than every once in a while)</P>


And before that, kiwi was a part time player behind Osi and tuck. And before that, tuck was a part time player behind osi and strahan. He just isn't better than jpp so of course he isn't a starter. That fact is not an indication that he is either good or bad against the run. It means jpp is better than osi.</P>


Osi has become nothing more than a pass rushing specialist. And he's good at it. But he's NOT a good all round player. Thats why he tends to only see the field on potential passing situations.</P>


All this grand praise for our third best DE.</P>

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 05:26 PM
And heres another reason we don't need Osi.</P>


When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle. He moves two players out of position. JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.</P>


So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.</P>

gmen0820
04-12-2012, 05:29 PM
And heres another reason we don't need Osi.</P>


When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle.* He moves two players out of position.* JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.</P>


So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.</P>Osi is a luxury when he does that.

A third-fourth rounder is not as valuable as Osi.

lawl
04-12-2012, 05:29 PM
Osi has become nothing more than a pass rushing specialist.* And he's good at it.* But he's NOT a good all round player.* Thats why he tends to only see the field on potential passing situations.</P>


All this grand praise for our third best DE.</P>

He only sees the field on passing plays because jpp is arguably the best de in the league, taking him out is silly. It has nothing to do with whether or not he is an all around player. It has everything to do with him not being as good as jpp.

lawl
04-12-2012, 05:31 PM
And heres another reason we don't need Osi.</P>


When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle.* He moves two players out of position.* JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.</P>


So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.</P>Osi is a luxury when he does that.

A third-fourth rounder is not as valuable as Osi.

Especially since we'll get a comp pick for him if he leaves through FA

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 05:34 PM
And heres another reason we don't need Osi.</P>


When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle. He moves two players out of position. JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.</P>


So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.</P>


Osi is a luxury when he does that. A third-fourth rounder is not as valuable as Osi. Especially since we'll get a comp pick for him if he leaves through FA</P>


Wouldn't be better than a 5th or 6th, if that.</P>


Look for us to trade Osi by draft day. And don't forget, trading Osi will free up $4MM plus in cap space which means we will have more room to sign our draftees. Maybe we wouldn't even have to make more cuts, which we will undoubtedly have to do if we keep Osi.</P>

lawl
04-12-2012, 05:37 PM
And heres another reason we don't need Osi.</P>


When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle.* He moves two players out of position.* JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.</P>


So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.</P>


Osi is a luxury when he does that. A third-fourth rounder is not as valuable as Osi. Especially since we'll get a comp pick for him if he leaves through FA</P>


Wouldn't be better than a 5th or 6th, if that.</P>


Look for us to trade Osi by draft day.* And don't forget, trading Osi will free up $3MM plus in cap space which means we will have more room to sign our draftees.* Maybe we wouldn't even have to make more cuts, which we will undoubtedly have to do if we keep Osi.</P>

we got a 4th rd pick for the small deals that smith and boss got and neither of them played much. Osi probably gets paid as much as both of them combined next offseason (if healthy).

If it's not a 2nd round pick then I don't think it's worth moving him. Draft picks are cheap, signing them is not really a concern for me.

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 05:46 PM
And heres another reason we don't need Osi.</P>


When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle. He moves two players out of position. JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.</P>


So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.</P>


Osi is a luxury when he does that. A third-fourth rounder is not as valuable as Osi. Especially since we'll get a comp pick for him if he leaves through FA</P>


Wouldn't be better than a 5th or 6th, if that.</P>


Look for us to trade Osi by draft day. And don't forget, trading Osi will free up $3MM plus in cap space which means we will have more room to sign our draftees. Maybe we wouldn't even have to make more cuts, which we will undoubtedly have to do if we keep Osi.</P>


we got a 4th rd pick for the small deals that smith and boss got and neither of them played much. Osi probably gets paid as much as both of them combined next offseason (if healthy). If it's not a 2nd round pick then I don't think it's worth moving him. Draft picks are cheap, signing them is not really a concern for me.</P>


there are a lot of factors that go in to this kind of thing. Trading him would free up cap space and enable us to address other needs. Plus he will be a problem this year Lawl, I just know it.</P>


He's a constant malcontent. He had a good run at the end of last season and now he will feel entitled to a huge deal. Our back-up DE will want an extension.</P>


I'm still pissed off that during the 2008 season (when he was happy to collect $8MM plus for not playing) he did an ESPN run one week and kept calling the Giants "them" and not "us". I've never heard a player do that ever before or since.</P>


Sounds like a small deal but it pissed me right off.</P>

lawl
04-12-2012, 05:50 PM
And heres another reason we don't need Osi.</P>


When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle.* He moves two players out of position.* JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.</P>


So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.</P>


Osi is a luxury when he does that. A third-fourth rounder is not as valuable as Osi. Especially since we'll get a comp pick for him if he leaves through FA</P>


Wouldn't be better than a 5th or 6th, if that.</P>


Look for us to trade Osi by draft day.* And don't forget, trading Osi will free up $3MM plus in cap space which means we will have more room to sign our draftees.* Maybe we wouldn't even have to make more cuts, which we will undoubtedly have to do if we keep Osi.</P>


we got a 4th rd pick for the small deals that smith and boss got and neither of them played much. Osi probably gets paid as much as both of them combined next offseason (if healthy). If it's not a 2nd round pick then I don't think it's worth moving him. Draft picks are cheap, signing them is not really a concern for me.</P>


there are a lot of factors that go in to this kind of thing.* Trading him would free up cap space and enable us to address other needs.* Plus he will be a problem this year Lawl, I just know it.</P>


He's a constant malcontent.* He had a good run at the end of last season and now he will feel entitled to a huge deal.* Our back-up DE will want an extension.</P>


I'm still pissed off that during the 2008 season (when he was happy to collect $8MM plus for not playing) he did an ESPN run one week and kept calling the Giants "them" and not "us".* I've never heard a player do that ever before or since.</P>


Sounds like a small deal but it pissed me right off.</P>

It's what happens on the field that counts.

I don't care if theyre circle jerking or in fist fights in the lockerroom, as long as they play well on Sundays that's all that matters.

You should know this, youve argued this same case before.

Morehead State
04-12-2012, 07:10 PM
And heres another reason we don't need Osi.</P>


When he comes in he moves JPP to the left side and Tuck to tackle. He moves two players out of position. JPP had his most impactful games when Osi was hurt and he could be a full time right DE, where he excels.</P>


So even for practical reasons, he's expendable.</P>


Osi is a luxury when he does that. A third-fourth rounder is not as valuable as Osi. Especially since we'll get a comp pick for him if he leaves through FA</P>


Wouldn't be better than a 5th or 6th, if that.</P>


Look for us to trade Osi by draft day. And don't forget, trading Osi will free up $3MM plus in cap space which means we will have more room to sign our draftees. Maybe we wouldn't even have to make more cuts, which we will undoubtedly have to do if we keep Osi.</P>


we got a 4th rd pick for the small deals that smith and boss got and neither of them played much. Osi probably gets paid as much as both of them combined next offseason (if healthy). If it's not a 2nd round pick then I don't think it's worth moving him. Draft picks are cheap, signing them is not really a concern for me.</P>


there are a lot of factors that go in to this kind of thing. Trading him would free up cap space and enable us to address other needs. Plus he will be a problem this year Lawl, I just know it.</P>


He's a constant malcontent. He had a good run at the end of last season and now he will feel entitled to a huge deal. Our back-up DE will want an extension.</P>


I'm still pissed off that during the 2008 season (when he was happy to collect $8MM plus for not playing) he did an ESPN run one week and kept calling the Giants "them" and not "us". I've never heard a player do that ever before or since.</P>


Sounds like a small deal but it pissed me right off.</P>


It's what happens on the field that counts. I don't care if theyre circle jerking or in fist fights in the lockerroom, as long as they play well on Sundays that's all that matters. You should know this, youve argued this same case before.</P>


His play on the field is inconsistent. His effort is uneven. He plays without dicipline, and he is essentially a second string player.</P>


On the field he has flashes, mostly because we now only use him when he can do some good...in passing situations.</P>


But on a side note...I don't like him either.</P>

Kase-1
04-16-2012, 08:39 PM
His play on the field is inconsistent. His effort is uneven. He plays without dicipline, and he is essentially a second string player.</p>


On the field he has flashes, mostly because we now only use him when he can do some good...in passing situations.</p>


But on a side note...I don't like him either.</p>Technically he is a 2nd string player, but he produces like a 1st stringer, if you deny that you're nuts N-V-T-S!!!

His run defense isnt his bread and butter, hell its average at best, but his pass rush more than makes up for it. He's not our best all around DE, that goes to JPP (obviously, LOL) but Osi is an excellent player

BlueSanta
04-17-2012, 12:59 AM
I think it's the only two positions that make sense for us to pick. If Stephen Hill is available I think he is our pick, someone who can stretch the field for Nicks &amp; Cruz. If he is gone I think we go best available DE. Yes we need OL / RB / TE help, but those positions aren't as highly valued by our front office. Skill positions (WR / DE / CB ) always seem to come first.</p>


We have probably the bestgroup of DE's in the league and one of, if not <u>thee </u>most prolific WR tandem in the NFL.</p>


How on earth are these our two biggest needs in the draft?</p>


O line, RB, LB, safety are all more important needs.</p>
Osi and Kiwi are in the last years of their deal, we just lost Tollefson, and Tuck gets nicked up.

A guy like Nick Perry is a good pick if he is there at 32.


On top of Kiwi and Osi's contracts up next year, when tolly left we lost the guy who most successfully replaced the injured tuck at the left DE spot. This is 1 of the reason I have been saying I think Chandler Jones will be looked at by the Giants. We have 1 guy who is a natural left end on the roster right now, and that is Tuck. His injuries have been mounting. JPP did ok on the left last year, but his numbers were far better when he was on the right side. Guys switching sides is not easy to do.

nevada11
04-17-2012, 01:33 AM
we get it you love chandler jones. must you keep repeating and reminding other posters every chance you get