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View Full Version : Grade the last 5 first round picks.



titwio
12-09-2011, 07:46 PM
Not including 2011 because there hasn't been sufficient time to evaluate but....From 2006-2010 how would you grade these guys based on draft value, play and potential?

(2006) 32nd overall -Mathias Kiwanuka

(2007) 20th overall -Aaron Ross

(2008) 31st overall -Kenny Phillips

(2009) 29th overall -Hakeem Nicks

(2010) 15th overall -Jason Pierre-Paul

Itlan
12-09-2011, 07:57 PM
Kiwanuka - B-

Very solid role player who stepped in as a starter when Osi went down and did well. He's better as a 3rd DE or "joker" role as they say. Constant performer and seems to give it all.

Ross - C

Such a great rookie season and then marred by injuries and it seems like mental lapses. Strong comeback this year, although he does tend to get torched. Not sure if it's him or scheme at this point.

KP - B

Loved this pick. Had extremely high expectations for KP and maybe that was a bad thing. I didn't think he could hit like he used to (was it M. Moore from the Steelers he laid out?), but then this year with a big hit brought me back flashes. Defense currently asks him to do too much in my opinion, as he CONSTANTLY the last defender playing a high zone. Has played that role well, I'd like to see him freelance a bit more though.

Hakeem Nicks - A+. Not much to it, absolute beast. Top 5 receiver at this point, and I didn't like the pick personally. Only going to get better.

JPP - A+. Didn't like this pick either, but wow. Nonstop motor, still learning the game, and is producing at a high level. Top 5 at his position at this point as well.

jomo
12-09-2011, 08:11 PM
Kiwanuka - B- Very solid role player who stepped in as a starter when Osi went down and did well. He's better as a 3rd DE or "joker" role as they say. Constant performer and seems to give it all. Ross - C Such a great rookie season and then marred by injuries and it seems like mental lapses. Strong comeback this year, although he does tend to get torched. Not sure if it's him or scheme at this point. KP - B Loved this pick. Had extremely high expectations for KP and maybe that was a bad thing. I didn't think he could hit like he used to (was it M. Moore from the Steelers he laid out?), but then this year with a big hit brought me back flashes. Defense currently asks him to do too much in my opinion, as he CONSTANTLY the last defender playing a high zone. Has played that role well, I'd like to see him freelance a bit more though. Hakeem Nicks - A+. Not much to it, absolute beast. Top 5 receiver at this point, and I didn't like the pick personally. Only going to get better. JPP - A+. Didn't like this pick either, but wow. Nonstop motor, still learning the game, and is producing at a high level. Top 5 at his position at this point as well.pretty much agree with you. I thought the rating on Ross was a bit generous but then remembered him during our run in 2007 where he played with great courage while banged up. I'll go with the C.

Gianthunter
12-09-2011, 08:21 PM
Starters.

fletch842
12-09-2011, 08:26 PM
JPP is starting to look like one of the better picks from last years draft, and Nicks from the year before. That doesn't happen very often.

giantsfan420
12-09-2011, 08:58 PM
Kiwanuka - B-

Very solid role player who stepped in as a starter when Osi went down and did well. He's better as a 3rd DE or "joker" role as they say. Constant performer and seems to give it all.

Ross - C

Such a great rookie season and then marred by injuries and it seems like mental lapses. Strong comeback this year, although he does tend to get torched. Not sure if it's him or scheme at this point.

KP - B

Loved this pick. Had extremely high expectations for KP and maybe that was a bad thing. I didn't think he could hit like he used to (was it M. Moore from the Steelers he laid out?), but then this year with a big hit brought me back flashes. Defense currently asks him to do too much in my opinion, as he CONSTANTLY the last defender playing a high zone. Has played that role well, I'd like to see him freelance a bit more though.

Hakeem Nicks - A+. Not much to it, absolute beast. Top 5 receiver at this point, and I didn't like the pick personally. Only going to get better.

JPP - A+. Didn't like this pick either, but wow. Nonstop motor, still learning the game, and is producing at a high level. Top 5 at his position at this point as well.

KIWINUKA- A uninjured, had several excellent plays as a lb vs the run. deflected a ball up for an int. has some sacks from the lb spot.
oh, did i mention lb spot isnt even his position its de. when he plays as de he is almost always getting pressure. honestly watch the p;ays kiwii is playin dline,,,hes getting awesome jump and lloks like hes playing faster. hes done all of what we asked of him and then some.

ROSS-A- people were absolutely ready to bury the team bc ross was starting db. eveyone was saying how ****ty it was that tt got hurt and ross woul have to pl;ay. a few posters like me, were willing to give him some time, and he'd do awesome. so far, considering the expectations on ross his year has been unreal. several ints, pass defenses, has looked downright legit a bunch of games.

ross wasnt losing games for us. hed make a few tough penalties like that PI in sf, other than that he isnt getting burned or torched and hes done a good job. he hasnt been any loss of talnet from going to tt to ross. ross has proven he was worthy of a first round pick and id like to resign him.

JPP-A+- SECOND IN NFL IN TACKLES BY DE'S. 10 or more sacks, multiple pass defences defeded.swat unreal motor, a beast

Kenny Phillips-B he never lets anything behind him and think about how hardthat would be with the speed wr in the division...d, jackson, dez bryant, wasshington scrub....plus he is always involved when the play is in front of him.he always lays out a big hit to a receiver catching the ball ti vreaj ut yo.

Nicks-A- too many positives to write, great rappore with eli, he'd be an a plus but he ha injuries and also seems to disapper in games like he isnt the option hopefully he plays these nex4 all pro style bc he has that skill

PrideofNY
12-09-2011, 09:24 PM
(2006) 32nd overall -Mathias Kiwanuka C Has been injured often, and definitely hasn't produced like a first round pick.

(2007) 20th overall -Aaron Ross C Has also been injured often, and was horrible when he did play from 2009 up until week 3 of this season. He most likely won't be on the team after next season.

(2008) 31st overall -Kenny Phillips

C Has been a huge disappointment. He had a serious injury that made him miss all of 2009, and then was invisible all of 2010. And now it looks like the 2011 version is as good as he's going to get.

(2009) 29th overall -Hakeem Nicks A On pace for his 2 straight 1000 yard season. Should have made the pro bowl last year over Desean Jackson. Made Charles Woodsen look stupid last week.

(2010) 15th overall -Jason Pierre-Paul A He's the best defensive player on the team this year.

NYfanatic
12-09-2011, 09:30 PM
Kiwi - B - Good DE who has a bit of a injury history (not anyones fault). Does have potential to be a 10 sack max guy if he is starting at DE and not at LB like the giants are doing. Great for the 32nd pick.
Ross - C - Not really worthy of a 1st. 3rd? Sure. Been dissaponting till this year and even then we will still look for him to depart via FA. Really the worst 1st rounder of the 5 here.
KP - B- -Not a bad pick for 31st but needs to step it up. He hasnt been bad but we would of thought he could of been better then what he has been doing. Has potential to be a top 5 SS but is still below that. Injury history sucks as well. But for now he will be a solid safety for us for 5 or so years.
Nicks - A - Currently the only thing holding me back to a A+ is his injuries. A big receiving year of 1,200+ yards hasnt happened and I expect when he does he should be a top 10 or even top 5 WR. Best Wr in the NFL is the max he can go.
JPP - A+ - Really 10.5 sacks already in his 2nd year and he isnt a starter? wow he could be the best DE in the league. Has what it takes and I think its possible we could be looking at a guy on defense Giants fans will be talking about for a long time after he retires. 22 sacks in a season? JPP might be the one to break strahans record.

Spizi
12-09-2011, 09:56 PM
Kiwi - B - Good DE who has a bit of a injury history (not anyones fault). Does have potential to be a 10 sack max guy if he is starting at DE and not at LB like the giants are doing. Great for the 32nd pick.
Ross - C - Not really worthy of a 1st. 3rd? Sure. Been dissaponting till this year and even then we will still look for him to depart via FA. Really the worst 1st rounder of the 5 here.
KP - B- -Not a bad pick for 31st but needs to step it up. He hasnt been bad but we would of thought he could of been better then what he has been doing. Has potential to be a top 5 SS but is still below that. Injury history sucks as well. But for now he will be a solid safety for us for 5 or so years.
Nicks - A - Currently the only thing holding me back to a A+ is his injuries. A big receiving year of 1,200+ yards hasnt happened and I expect when he does he should be a top 10 or even top 5 WR. Best Wr in the NFL is the max he can go.
JPP - A+ - Really 10.5 sacks already in his 2nd year and he isnt a starter? wow he could be the best DE in the league. Has what it takes and I think its possible we could be looking at a guy on defense Giants fans will be talking about for a long time after he retires. 22 sacks in a season? JPP might be the one to break strahans record.


Nicks is definitely an A+ he's only missed 6 of 44 games and 2 were in his rookie year. He is a top 10 WR in the league talent wise and that is why Cruz is dominating this year. Without Nicks we might be a 4 win team.

ebick
12-09-2011, 10:21 PM
the really good thing about these picks is that they are all still on the team.....

miked1958
12-09-2011, 10:55 PM
Got to keep getting those great picks

jaxnygmen
12-09-2011, 11:17 PM
Agree pretty much with your assessment. However, it is really not the first round that has hurt us it is the 3rd and later that we have not been able to find enough gems.

DragonSoul
12-09-2011, 11:17 PM
(2006) 32nd overall -Mathias Kiwanuka - Can argue A since he is so versatile, and may have been another great de for us if he was given a chance. I can say B since he doesn't fit the traditional role. So thats a toss up, personal preference.

(2007) 20th overall -Aaron Ross - Between a C and B. When he was healthy he was playing at a solid level, but when he was not (most of his career) it was nothing special.

(2008) 31st overall -Kenny Phillips - Would have been an A, but because of his injury, he is probably a B. He still has a chance to get back up there. I am also curious if its part of the way they scheme him in the defense.

(2009) 29th overall -Hakeem Nicks - Have to say A, but he needs to stay on the field, if not he can easily be a B, since you cannot help anyone if you are not on the field, then your rating means nothing.

(2010) 15th overall -Jason Pierre-Paul - Heading towards an A. I would say A but need to see another year or two. If he can keep doing it, easily an A grade. I just do not like grading players after 1-2 seasons. Especially if he was not a starter. He only become a PT starter when we had injuries this year.

allentown PA
12-09-2011, 11:34 PM
Not including 2011 because there hasn't been sufficient time to evaluate but....From 2006-2010 how would you grade these guys based on draft value, play and potential?

(2006) 32nd overall -Mathias Kiwanuka

(2007) 20th overall -Aaron Ross

(2008) 31st overall -Kenny Phillips

(2009) 29th overall -Hakeem Nicks

(2010) 15th overall -Jason Pierre-Paul

kiwi c+...injuries and moving him around hasnt helped
ross c- injuries and his tendency to get beat deep
phillips C...plays the deep zone still covers a lot of ground but nothing special

nicks B+....def a num 1 reciever but is injury proned...if he ever plays a full season the sky is the limit

JPP A...dude is a beast who can do it all

RobCarpenter
12-10-2011, 12:05 AM
(2006) 32nd overall -Mathias Kiwanuka: BI think he'd be much better suited for RDE, but he's moved around for the team and had good moments at times. Injuries have hurt.

(2007) 20th overall -Aaron Ross: C+Has shown some flashes, but too inconsistent.

(2008) 31st overall -Kenny Phillips: B<FONT size=4>-</FONT>Been OK at best, disappointing at times</P>


(2009) 29th overall -Hakeem Nicks: AHas produced like a No. 1

(2010) 15th overall -Jason Pierre-Paul: A+Reese hit this pick out of the park. JPP is a flat-out stud.</P>

daynemustgo
12-10-2011, 07:42 AM
(2006) 32nd overall -Mathias Kiwanuka (B)

(2007) 20th overall -Aaron Ross (D)

(2008) 31st overall -Kenny Phillips (C)

(2009) 29th overall -Hakeem Nicks (A)

(2010) 15th overall -Jason Pierre-Paul (A)

BParcells777
12-10-2011, 10:00 AM
Pretty Darn Good across the board.....a lot of 1st round picks are busts

My one problem is he did not trade down to get Cushing or Matthews in 2008 when he had the shot.

I wonder if Jerry likes only black defensive players especially the back 7......we need LBers and it took the 14th game of the season for Reese to bring Blackburn back.....unbelievable.....a ST Captain last year, knew the system, and we were desperate.............brings him back and the guy has immediate impact.....that shows how truly horrible our starting LBers are

He tends to bring in light fast LBers and we need big brutes like Blackburn and at a higher level Urlacher.....I wonder if the Bears are ready to trade Urlacher this off season. I never hear Cushing refereed to anymore....maybe he's available in trade.....then again I could not name 3 players on the Texans

He hobbled along with the slowest MLBer in the league in Pierce for many years so do not tell me its a speed thing

brad
12-10-2011, 11:09 AM
Mathias Kiwanuka: B+ - Solid DE who has worked himself into a pretty good LB. It is unfortunate that the LB position continues to be an area of such need or he would be good in the DE rotation and allow the Giants to consider trading Osi... not that I want to see Osi go but cap and the emergence of JPP may force the issue

Aaron Ross: C - Decent corner who has been plagued with injuries. Can't blame the Giants for taking him but injuries have prevented him from becoming a stud corner

Kenny Phillips: B+ -I like him, but I think the scheme prevents him from reaching his full potential. This guys is a hard hitter and can create turnovers.

Hakeem Nicks: A - Great player that makes the other receivers better when he is on the field, he can make tacklers miss and forces defenses to adjust to him.

Jason Pierre-Paul: A+ - Outstanding DE that has started to make fans a lot less nervous when Tuck or Osi are injured. Plays the run well and rushes the passer like few in the NFL can. He is a flat out beast!

Eli2Nicks612
12-10-2011, 11:20 AM
Kiwanuka- B He's been injured and hasn't had the numbers a first round pick should have, but he's always produced wherever we put him, especially this year and last year (pre injury).

Ross- C- Ross was great his rookie season and helped win a super bowl, but he hasn't been that good since then and has been injured. He has been pretty good this year in some games, though.

Phillips- B This guy had so much potential. If he didn't have to get microfracture surgery we'd likely be comparing him to Polamalu. Unfortunately, he had the surgery and he's a very good but not great starter.

Nicks- A+ Not much to say about him. On pace for two straight 1,000 yard seasons. It's amazing how he's by far the best receiver from the 2009 first round when there were 6 receivers drafted and he was the 5th one.

JPP- A+ The best defensive player on our team and one of the best in the league, and it's only his second season.

jhamburg
12-10-2011, 01:49 PM
Crazy that it seems both 2009 and 2010 we took literally the best player available. Well 2009 is arguable with Mike Wallace but I'm happy with what we have.

Pakman
12-10-2011, 02:56 PM
Kiwi A he does whatever he's told

Ross B great season this year but when he had an opportunity before he didn't take advantage

KP A "Safety Kenny Phillips is a double threat. When quarterbacks throw at Phillips, they have a rating of 45.8. He is the only player who has held quarterbacks to a passer rating below 50 who also has at least 14 stops." according to PFF

Nicks A- gets injured to much but he's the man


JPP A+++

BlueSanta
12-10-2011, 02:58 PM
Kiwi ... B+ I think people need to go back and look at that class. There are some guys available when we picked who turned out to be stars, but overal there arent a lot of guys who turned out better than Kiwi, especially on defense. We did pretty well considering how weak that class was at the top on defense. If we are gonna whine about a pick that year, it should be over Sinorice, not Kiwi.

Ross ...C- Again, when I go back and look at that draft I understand why we took Ross. We needed a CB for the future as Sam Madison was the oldest CB in the league. I do not give a C- because of Ross' poor play, but rather because we broke our pattern of not reaching for need. I was really hoping for Lawrence Timmons that year but also liked Beason and Greg Olsen. I thought once Revis and Hall were off the board, we wouldnt go CB, I was wrong.

KP ... B. This is a tough 1. KP's career took a turn with that microfracture surgery and its hard to blame Reese for that. We desperately needed a safety and need fit BPA in KP. I do remember having it out with some people on these boards because I liked Curtis Loften. Looking back there werent too many guys drafted around KP who ended up better than he.

Nicks.. A. Pretty simple really. We needed a big physical WR. We got the best 1 in the draft. Need and value do not come together like this very often. I had no beef with this pick. We forcast it. The Giants reportedly spent TONS of time with Nicks that offseason basically letting everyone know, if he is there when we pick, he is a Giant.

JPP...A+. I remember this pretty clearly. It came down to JPP or Derrick Morgan as BPAs. Several people on these boards wanted Morgan because he was more polished. However, I was at the FSU v South Florida game and I watched JPP pick pieces of Christain Ponder and Andrew Datko(FSUs LT) out of his cleets and single handely beat FSU. 2 Weeks later I watched Dakto manhandle All American Derrick Morgan forcing GT to move him to the left side to avoid Datko. I had seen all I needed to see. I do remember wanting Iupati(Guard with 49ers) that year. He is a good player too, but Im glad Reese doesnt listen to me(cept in free agency.) JPP is a monster.

I think people need to recognzie how rare it is to have 5 picks and all of them be contributors, let alone stars. I know people give Reese crap about Free agency(see above) but you also have to give credit where it is due. The guy is a good drafter.

Sarcasman
12-10-2011, 04:00 PM
Not including 2011 because there hasn't been sufficient time to evaluate but....From 2006-2010 how would you grade these guys based on draft value, play and potential?

(2006) 32nd overall -Mathias Kiwanuka

(2007) 20th overall -Aaron Ross

(2008) 31st overall -Kenny Phillips

(2009) 29th overall -Hakeem Nicks

(2010) 15th overall -Jason Pierre-Paul

Ernie Accorsi knew the importance of building and rebuilding a team constantly through the draft. He also knew the importance of getting value late in the draft.

That's why he tabbed Reese to be his heir apparent. Thankfully the Giant FO agreed.

Kiwi - B (injuries and moving him around keep this from being a B+

Ross is a C to C-

Phillips is a C to C+

NIcks is an A

JPP A

Despite what one reads on this MB the Giants under both Accorsi and Reese are one of the better drafting teams in the league

lawl
12-10-2011, 04:19 PM
Pretty Darn Good across the board.....a lot of 1st round picks are busts

My one problem is he did not trade down to get Cushing or Matthews in 2008 when he had the shot.

I wonder if Jerry likes only black defensive players especially the back 7......we need LBers and it took the 14th game of the season for Reese to bring Blackburn back.....unbelievable.....a ST Captain last year, knew the system, and we were desperate.............brings him back and the guy has immediate impact.....that shows how truly horrible our starting LBers are

He tends to bring in light fast LBers and we need big brutes like Blackburn and at a higher level Urlacher.....I wonder if the Bears are ready to trade Urlacher this off season.* I never hear Cushing refereed to anymore....maybe he's available in trade.....then again I could not name 3 players on the Texans

He hobbled along with the slowest MLBer in the league in Pierce for many years so do not tell me its a speed thing

Couple things.

Cushing and Matthews were in the 09 draft, not the 08draft, which means no nicks.

Secondly, Blackburn wasn't on a roster period. Noone picked this guy up not just us. He wont be on a roster next year and for good reason.

And yes I know guys, I'm the idiot that had to respond to jakk

Sarcasman
12-10-2011, 05:53 PM
Pretty Darn Good across the board.....a lot of 1st round picks are busts

My one problem is he did not trade down to get Cushing or Matthews in 2008 when he had the shot.

I wonder if Jerry likes only black defensive players especially the back 7......we need LBers and it took the 14th game of the season for Reese to bring Blackburn back.....unbelievable.....a ST Captain last year, knew the system, and we were desperate.............brings him back and the guy has immediate impact.....that shows how truly horrible our starting LBers are

He tends to bring in light fast LBers and we need big brutes like Blackburn and at a higher level Urlacher.....I wonder if the Bears are ready to trade Urlacher this off season.* I never hear Cushing refereed to anymore....maybe he's available in trade.....then again I could not name 3 players on the Texans

He hobbled along with the slowest MLBer in the league in Pierce for many years so do not tell me its a speed thing


I don't think it's a speed thing, but I also don't think it's a black vs white thing.

Well, not at least as far as Reese is concerned...

NYfanatic
12-10-2011, 09:00 PM
Kiwi - B - Good DE who has a bit of a injury history (not anyones fault). Does have potential to be a 10 sack max guy if he is starting at DE and not at LB like the giants are doing. Great for the 32nd pick.
Ross - C - Not really worthy of a 1st. 3rd? Sure. Been dissaponting till this year and even then we will still look for him to depart via FA. Really the worst 1st rounder of the 5 here.
KP - B- -Not a bad pick for 31st but needs to step it up. He hasnt been bad but we would of thought he could of been better then what he has been doing. Has potential to be a top 5 SS but is still below that. Injury history sucks as well. But for now he will be a solid safety for us for 5 or so years.
Nicks - A - Currently the only thing holding me back to a A+ is his injuries. A big receiving year of 1,200+ yards hasnt happened and I expect when he does he should be a top 10 or even top 5 WR. Best Wr in the NFL is the max he can go.
JPP - A+ - Really 10.5 sacks already in his 2nd year and he isnt a starter? wow he could be the best DE in the league. Has what it takes and I think its possible we could be looking at a guy on defense Giants fans will be talking about for a long time after he retires. 22 sacks in a season? JPP might be the one to break strahans record.


Nicks is definitely an A+ he's only missed 6 of 44 games and 2 were in his rookie year. He is a top 10 WR in the league talent wise and that is why Cruz is dominating this year. Without Nicks we might be a 4 win team.
The big reason is still those missed game have caused him to only amass a little over a 1,000 yards last season. If he does get 1,200 this year it would be a A+ for sure.