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View Full Version : Is Ben Roethlisberger An Elite Quarterback ?



BlueBlitzer
04-13-2012, 12:09 PM
Hey, they Killed us with the Damn question ad nauseum, didn't they ?

BlueBlitzer
04-13-2012, 01:56 PM
So I would say no. Playing the Seahawks and Cardinals, gave Him His best chance to be an MVP, but no.

flamethrower
04-13-2012, 01:57 PM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.

FeaglesPuntsEaglesRunts
04-13-2012, 02:35 PM
Are you trolling? Haha.

No he's not elite. He might squeak his way into the top 10, but he never carries his team. He got beat by freakin Tebow.

flamethrower
04-13-2012, 03:58 PM
Are you trolling? Haha.

No he's not elite. He might squeak his way into the top 10, but he never carries his team. He got beat by freakin Tebow.

No I am not trolling. I just expressed my opinion of him. Notice that I didn't say #1. He is an elite QB. And Tebow didn't beat The Steelers Offense. Last time I checked Roethlisberger don't play defense. They would not have won either Super Bowl with either Charlie Batch, or Dennis Dixon, or Byron Leftwitch playing Quarterback either.
I answered the question. Stated my opinion on where he is as far as Elite QB's go. If I was trolling do you think I would have put Eli Manning near the top, or Forgotten Tony "Drop the Ball" Romo?

Martyr
04-13-2012, 04:08 PM
He's elite at dragging drunk college students in the the bathroom. Thats about it....</P>

buffyblue
04-13-2012, 04:18 PM
Ben Rothlisberger is a top five QB.

1- Tom Brady
2- Eli Manning
3- Aaron Rodgers
tied 4- Ben Rothlisberger and Drew Brees

GiantsYanks
04-13-2012, 04:23 PM
Are you trolling? Haha.

No he's not elite. He might squeak his way into the top 10, but he never carries his team. He got beat by freakin Tebow.

No I am not trolling. I just expressed my opinion of him. Notice that I didn't say #1. He is an elite QB. And Tebow didn't beat The Steelers Offense. Last time I checked Roethlisberger don't play defense. They would not have won either Super Bowl with either Charlie Batch, or Dennis Dixon, or Byron Leftwitch playing Quarterback either.
I answered the question. Stated my opinion on where he is as far as Elite QB's go. If I was trolling do you think I would have put Eli Manning near the top, or Forgotten Tony "Drop the Ball" Romo?


If you're not trolling why do you have Drew Stanton up there?

WR4Life
04-13-2012, 04:42 PM
Are you trolling? Haha.

No he's not elite. He might squeak his way into the top 10, but he never carries his team. He got beat by freakin Tebow.

No I am not trolling. I just expressed my opinion of him. Notice that I didn't say #1. He is an elite QB. And Tebow didn't beat The Steelers Offense. Last time I checked Roethlisberger don't play defense. They would not have won either Super Bowl with either Charlie Batch, or Dennis Dixon, or Byron Leftwitch playing Quarterback either.
I answered the question. Stated my opinion on where he is as far as Elite QB's go. If I was trolling do you think I would have put Eli Manning near the top, or Forgotten Tony "Drop the Ball" Romo?


If you're not trolling why do you have Drew Stanton up there?


Yeah I saw that too...

flamethrower
04-13-2012, 04:45 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.

THE_New_York_Giants
04-13-2012, 04:48 PM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Drew Stanton is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.

Shaubb and Stanton? What?

smashndash715
04-13-2012, 05:06 PM
yea that was definitely stafford not stanton buddy

smashndash715
04-13-2012, 05:06 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.


yea that was definitely stafford not stanton buddy

GmenFan1980
04-13-2012, 05:49 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.


Brady threw for over 5,000 and the lions QB's name is Matt Stafford :/

greenca190
04-13-2012, 06:01 PM
He has had one of the worst offensive lines around him in his tenure in the league and he has still been to three super bowls. When I look at him, I think that he is as much a Steeler as guys like Hines Ward and Jerome Bettis ever were. Who cares if he is an elite quarterback, he is the right guy for that team.

giantman8493
04-13-2012, 06:24 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.
No he didn't. Drew Stanton is a back up qb. Do you mean matthew stafford? number 1 pick? how do you not know that

flamethrower
04-13-2012, 08:57 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.
No he didn't. Drew Stanton is a back up qb. Do you mean matthew stafford? number 1 pick? how do you not know thatMy mistake. Thanks for correcting me. You figured out who I meant. I got my Lions young Qb's mixed up. Sorry for my snafu.

Ntegrase96
04-14-2012, 01:44 AM
No. He is typically ranked high for what he has done rather than for what he actually is-- and what he has done was greatly aided by the Steeler's stout defense.

Wouldn't call him elite by any means, but he can get the job done for the Steelers so that's all that really matters.

Depending how Peyton plays next year, I'd rank him about 6th overall.

Side note, for the people ranking Peyton anything lower than two, is that based on the assumption that he will not return to form this coming season?

Ntegrase96
04-14-2012, 01:49 AM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Drew Stanton is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.


I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?

Slunk3AM
04-14-2012, 02:02 AM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be:

1) Aaron Rodgers
2) Tom Brady
3) Drew Brees
4) Eli Manning
5) Tony Romo
6) Matthew Stafford
7) Philip Rivers
8) Ben Roethlisberger
9) Matt Schaub
10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)

GMENAGAIN
04-14-2012, 08:18 AM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</P>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</P>

SweetZombieJesus
04-14-2012, 08:51 AM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.


Eli was only 67 yards shy of making that club (and had 1,219 more in the playoffs for a total of 6,152 yards). That's got to be a record for combined regular season + playoffs.

Ntegrase96
04-14-2012, 01:08 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.


Eli was only 67 yards shy of making that club (and had 1,219 more in the playoffs for a total of 6,152 yards). That's got to be a record for combined regular season + playoffs.


It certainly has to be up there, but Brees beat him this year with 6,304 yards passing in two less games.

buffyblue
04-15-2012, 12:14 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.


Eli was only 67 yards shy of making that club (and had 1,219 more in the playoffs for a total of 6,152 yards).* That's got to be a record for combined regular season + playoffs.


It certainly has to be up there, but Brees beat him this year with 6,304 yards passing in two less games.


How many more games did Drew Brees play in a dome is something to consider also.

Ntegrase96
04-15-2012, 01:52 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.


Eli was only 67 yards shy of making that club (and had 1,219 more in the playoffs for a total of 6,152 yards). That's got to be a record for combined regular season + playoffs.


It certainly has to be up there, but Brees beat him this year with 6,304 yards passing in two less games.


How many more games did Drew Brees play in a dome is something to consider also.

That's a point a lot of people bring up when talking about Brees, and I think it's pretty valid. Brees didn't have to endure any harsh conditions this year. If he wasn't in a dome, he was in fair weather. And typically the Saints play poorly in harsh conditions-- they're very Jekyl and Hyde when it comes to home vs away games. So I can understand the idea that Brees drops off when not in a dome setting.

I'm not a fan of the Saints or Brees, so I can't say for sure if Brees is awful in harsh conditions. But a quick glance of last season would indicate that his play did not suffer when he was outdoors. (But as I mentioned earlier, the outdoor games he played in this year were in pretty good weather).

And on the other side of things, Eli's numbers didn't get miraculously better when he was indoors either.

Basically, both QBs played consistently whether it was indoors or outdoors. The only real variable that altered their numbers was the strength of the opposing defense.

Edit: I think Brees gets a lot of criticism for playing indoors because he's the only elite QB to do so, other than Peyton Manning (disregarding whether or not he'll return to form next season--another topic for another time), and that includes the occasional criticism from me as well. And Drew Brees automatically gets 9 indoor games every season since he'll always have the one in Atlanta each year. Only a handful of QBs have that luxury. (Ryan in ATL, Bradford in STL, Kolb in ARI, Stafford in DET, and whoever is QBing in Minnesota.)

But if it were so easy to succeed in such conditions, the Saints QBs would have been killing it for years now, and "top QB" Matt Ryan would be smashing the record books as well since he's in the same boat.

JPP
04-15-2012, 02:06 PM
Well he threw for over 5,000 yards last season. And for the First time in ages the Lions made the Playoffs. He is on there more for what he "Potentially" can do. Rather than what he has done. And Only Marino, Breez, and Stanton can say that they threw for over 5,000 yards in a season.


Eli was only 67 yards shy of making that club (and had 1,219 more in the playoffs for a total of 6,152 yards).* That's got to be a record for combined regular season + playoffs.


It certainly has to be up there, but Brees beat him this year with 6,304 yards passing in two less games.


How many more games did Drew Brees play in a dome is something to consider also.

That's a point a lot of people bring up when talking about Brees, and I think it's pretty valid. Brees didn't have to endure any harsh conditions this year. If he wasn't in a dome, he was in fair weather. And typically the Saints play poorly in harsh conditions-- they're very Jekyl and Hyde when it comes to home vs away games. So I can understand the idea that Brees drops off when not in a dome setting.

I'm not a fan of the Saints or Brees, so I can't say for sure if Brees is awful in harsh conditions. But a quick glance of last season would indicate that his play did not suffer when he was outdoors. (But as I mentioned earlier, the outdoor games he played in this year were in pretty good weather).

And on the other side of things, Eli's numbers didn't get miraculously better when he was indoors either.

Basically, both QBs played consistently whether it was indoors or outdoors. The only real variable that altered their numbers was the strength of the opposing defense.

Edit: I think Brees gets a lot of criticism for playing indoors because he's the only elite QB to do so, other than Peyton Manning (disregarding whether or not he'll return to form next season--another topic for another time), and that includes the occasional criticism from me as well. And Drew Brees automatically gets 9 indoor games every season since he'll always have the one in Atlanta each year. Only a handful of QBs have that luxury. (Ryan in ATL, Bradford in STL, Kolb in ARI, Stafford in DET, and whoever is QBing in Minnesota.)

But if it were so easy to succeed in such conditions, the Saints QBs would have been killing it for years now, and "top QB" Matt Ryan would be smashing the record books as well since he's in the same boat.




Very good points but don't the Saints also supplement their running game with short RB and WR screens a lot. I know the Lions did it like crazy last season and like you mentioned they played in a dome as well.

Bing Crosby
04-15-2012, 07:17 PM
A lot of Bree's numbers comes from the fact that he is in offense that doesn't stop, even after the opposing defense has just given up. When they played us and our defense just gave up they kept scoring, and he kept throwing. If i remember right he had 510 that game. They pull bull**** like that all the time.

Joe Morrison
04-15-2012, 07:55 PM
A lot of Bree's numbers comes from the fact that he is in offense that doesn't stop, even after the opposing defense has just given up. When they played us and our defense just gave up they kept scoring, and he kept throwing. If i remember right he had 510 that game. They pull bull**** like that all the time.
</P>


That's the game plan, what do you expect, just man up and stop him and stop whining.</P>

NYG 5
04-15-2012, 08:58 PM
He has had one of the worst offensive lines around him in his tenure in the league and he has still been to three super bowls. When I look at him, I think that he is as much a Steeler as guys like Hines Ward and Jerome Bettis ever were. Who cares if he is an elite quarterback, he is the right guy for that team.

2005 he had an all pro offensive line.

in 2008 it was average

now its actually bad.

but he has not had a bad offensive line his entire time in the league.

ralphpal
04-15-2012, 10:01 PM
The guy won 2 superbowls and beem in three .
The 2nd one he won in dramatic fashion
Of course he is elite .

miked1958
04-15-2012, 11:48 PM
Are you trolling? Haha.

No he's not elite. He might squeak his way into the top 10, but he never carries his team. He got beat by freakin Tebow.

No I am not trolling. I just expressed my opinion of him. Notice that I didn't say #1. He is an elite QB. And Tebow didn't beat The Steelers Offense. Last time I checked Roethlisberger don't play defense. They would not have won either Super Bowl with either Charlie Batch, or Dennis Dixon, or Byron Leftwitch playing Quarterback either.
I answered the question. Stated my opinion on where he is as far as Elite QB's go. If I was trolling do you think I would have put Eli Manning near the top, or Forgotten Tony "Drop the Ball" Romo?

U realize that the steelers won that first SB he was in despite him not because of him. He was absolutely terrible in that game. In his second he was a lot better and did make that huge throw to Holmes with seconds left

Slunk3AM
04-16-2012, 12:54 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</P>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</P>

Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments. I think he, Stafford, Rivers, and Ben are all quite close and can be interchanged with one another. In other words, I don't think Romo is that far better or worse to the point that it deserves additional attention.

Also, if you knew how to follow through reading, you will notice Peyton is only at 10 because I am unsure how he is gonna come out of that surgery... but that I am sure he'll be somewhere top 10 for sure.

It's okay, we can agree to disagree. I don't have to laugh at your opinion though just because I disagree with it. I think I left that part of me in high school.

THE_New_York_Giants
04-16-2012, 01:03 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</P>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</P>

Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments. I think he, Stafford, Rivers, and Ben are all quite close and can be interchanged with one another. In other words, I don't think Romo is that far better or worse to the point that it deserves additional attention.

Also, if you knew how to follow through reading, you will notice Peyton is only at 10 because I am unsure how he is gonna come out of that surgery... but that I am sure he'll be somewhere top 10 for sure.

It's okay, we can agree to disagree. I don't have to laugh at your opinion though just because I disagree with it. I think I left that part of me in high school.
That's a big if because every time a moment in a game matters, Romo chokes. Romo is the only QB I can think of who can throw for 500 yards and still almost single handedly find a way to lose the game for his team.

Slunk3AM
04-16-2012, 01:07 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</P>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</P>

Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments. I think he, Stafford, Rivers, and Ben are all quite close and can be interchanged with one another. In other words, I don't think Romo is that far better or worse to the point that it deserves additional attention.

Also, if you knew how to follow through reading, you will notice Peyton is only at 10 because I am unsure how he is gonna come out of that surgery... but that I am sure he'll be somewhere top 10 for sure.

It's okay, we can agree to disagree. I don't have to laugh at your opinion though just because I disagree with it. I think I left that part of me in high school.
That's a big if because every time a moment in a game matters, Romo chokes. Romo is the only QB I can think of who can throw for 500 yards and still almost single handedly find a way to lose the game for his team.

I agree - but for me he's consistent enough on a regular basis to be considered here. Rivers couldn't do anything with all his weapons, Stafford is good but, still, not better than Romo usually, Roethlisberger has proven he can lose games too... and though Peyton is usually top 3, its well known that his playoff performances are dismal.

JPP
04-16-2012, 01:14 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</P>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</P>

Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments. I think he, Stafford, Rivers, and Ben are all quite close and can be interchanged with one another. In other words, I don't think Romo is that far better or worse to the point that it deserves additional attention.

Also, if you knew how to follow through reading, you will notice Peyton is only at 10 because I am unsure how he is gonna come out of that surgery... but that I am sure he'll be somewhere top 10 for sure.

It's okay, we can agree to disagree. I don't have to laugh at your opinion though just because I disagree with it. I think I left that part of me in high school.

It took 2 Superbowls and more importantly this years SB where he practically dragged our team kicking and screaming to a few victories before people give Eli that kind of credit. Romo had not 1 but 2 chances to not only make the playoffs but kick us out and maybe make that mystical run of their own but no Tony fell short on all those chances. While he doesn't suck like bottom of the league bad he is one of the lower end top QB's or top end of the middle QB's in the 10 spot range. Unfortunately until he wins something he will probably remain there. Especially if you take into account all the "talent" Romo has supposedly had around him according to the media. lol

I won't give you a hard time about Peyton except for if you think he is gonna be hampered why even put him on the list, personally I'd put him top 3, if I was gonna include him until he proves otherwise. As for as Playoffs it isn't like Romo lights it up in the playoffs either.

Slunk3AM
04-16-2012, 01:16 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</P>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</P>

Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments. I think he, Stafford, Rivers, and Ben are all quite close and can be interchanged with one another. In other words, I don't think Romo is that far better or worse to the point that it deserves additional attention.

Also, if you knew how to follow through reading, you will notice Peyton is only at 10 because I am unsure how he is gonna come out of that surgery... but that I am sure he'll be somewhere top 10 for sure.

It's okay, we can agree to disagree. I don't have to laugh at your opinion though just because I disagree with it. I think I left that part of me in high school.

It took 2 Superbowls and more importantly this years SB where he practically dragged our team kicking and screaming to a few victories before people give Eli that kind of credit. Romo had not 1 but 2 chances to not only make the playoffs but kick us out and maybe make that mystical run of their own but no Tony fell short on all those chances. While he doesn't suck like bottom of the league bad he is one of the lower end top QB's or top end of the middle QB's in the 10 spot range. Unfortunately until he wins something he will probably remain there. Especially if you take into account all the "talent" Romo has supposedly had around him according to the media. lol

I won't give you a hard time about Peyton except for if you think he is gonna be hampered why even put him on the list, personally I'd put him top 3, if I was gonna include him, until he proves otherwise.

I can agree with these points.

JPP
04-16-2012, 01:18 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</P>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</P>

Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments. I think he, Stafford, Rivers, and Ben are all quite close and can be interchanged with one another. In other words, I don't think Romo is that far better or worse to the point that it deserves additional attention.

Also, if you knew how to follow through reading, you will notice Peyton is only at 10 because I am unsure how he is gonna come out of that surgery... but that I am sure he'll be somewhere top 10 for sure.

It's okay, we can agree to disagree. I don't have to laugh at your opinion though just because I disagree with it. I think I left that part of me in high school.

It took 2 Superbowls and more importantly this years SB where he practically dragged our team kicking and screaming to a few victories before people give Eli that kind of credit. Romo had not 1 but 2 chances to not only make the playoffs but kick us out and maybe make that mystical run of their own but no Tony fell short on all those chances. While he doesn't suck like bottom of the league bad he is one of the lower end top QB's or top end of the middle QB's in the 10 spot range. Unfortunately until he wins something he will probably remain there. Especially if you take into account all the "talent" Romo has supposedly had around him according to the media. lol

I won't give you a hard time about Peyton except for if you think he is gonna be hampered why even put him on the list, personally I'd put him top 3, if I was gonna include him, until he proves otherwise.

I can agree with these points.

Oh...well, I'm glad. :P lol

krygny
04-16-2012, 01:40 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>
Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!

...



Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

...
<font color="#FF0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>

Drez
04-16-2012, 03:23 PM
He has had one of the worst offensive lines around him in his tenure in the league and he has still been to three super bowls. When I look at him, I think that he is as much a Steeler as guys like Hines Ward and Jerome Bettis ever were. Who cares if he is an elite quarterback, he is the right guy for that team.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that Ben and the Steelers have not made it to a SB if they have less than a top 5 defense in both yards and scoring. So, even though he's had poor offensive lines (some of that can actually be attributed to him holding the ball too long), his defense has been the key to their SB appearances and wins.

Bing Crosby
04-16-2012, 07:05 PM
That's the game plan, what do you expect, just man up and stop him and stop whining.

My point was that his "record setting season" came from the fact that they played a lot of games like ours. Defense just giving up and quieting. Sorry I'm not impressed by a guy who scores 510 yards on a team that has just stopped trying. Look at the schedule and realize that our D wasn't the only one that just gave up in his dome, and he simply isn't as impressive to me at least.</p>

And yeah, I played the game as a kid too. I get what your saying to a point, but honestly just beating a team into dust to make your numbers look God like well you throw in your "superdome" doesn't impress me. Sorry. Oh look he threw a 60 yard pass on a D that gave up when the score was 35-7. Yeah he is special alright.
</p>

Ntegrase96
04-16-2012, 11:09 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>

Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments. I think he, Stafford, Rivers, and Ben are all quite close and can be interchanged with one another. In other words, I don't think Romo is that far better or worse to the point that it deserves additional attention.

Also, if you knew how to follow through reading, you will notice Peyton is only at 10 because I am unsure how he is gonna come out of that surgery... but that I am sure he'll be somewhere top 10 for sure.

It's okay, we can agree to disagree. I don't have to laugh at your opinion though just because I disagree with it. I think I left that part of me in high school.
That's a big if because every time a moment in a game matters, Romo chokes. Romo is the only QB I can think of who can throw for 500 yards and still almost single handedly find a way to lose the game for his team.

This is just not true. Romo never throws for 500 yards...


But seriously though. In the last 3 years Romo has been pretty good in clutch situations and late season as well. However, your statement describes the Jets game and Lions game to a tee. Other than that he had 4 gw drives this year, and had 2 more that special teams just didn't capitalize-- meaning he did his part in just as many 4th quarter performances in the regular season as Eli. Now I'm not comparing Romo to Eli in that respect-- I'm just pointing out that the biggest reason Romo seems like a choker is because the only time Romo is really put in the spotlight is when he fails. When he performs to the contraire of popular belief, it's not covered by the media nearly as extensively.

Of course, he still has the occasional boneheaded play every now and then, (more than I care for) but what QB doesn't?

Ntegrase96
04-16-2012, 11:15 PM
That's the game plan, what do you expect, just man up and stop him and stop whining.

My point was that his "record setting season" came from the fact that they played a lot of games like ours. Defense just giving up and quieting. Sorry I'm not impressed by a guy who scores 510 yards on a team that has just stopped trying. Look at the schedule and realize that our D wasn't the only one that just gave up in his dome, and he simply isn't as impressive to me at least.</p>

And yeah, I played the game as a kid too. I get what your saying to a point, but honestly just beating a team into dust to make your numbers look God like well you throw in your "superdome" doesn't impress me. Sorry. Oh look he threw a 60 yard pass on a D that gave up when the score was 35-7. Yeah he is special alright.
</p>

In that regard, would you commend Eli for putting up big numbers against the New Orleans defense that gave up after the game was secured?

Ntegrase96
04-17-2012, 01:16 AM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>
Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!

...



Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

...
<font color="#FF0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>



I think age of Elites is incorrect. I think "golden age of hyperbole and high media coverage" would be a more apt description of the leauge today.

Imean, the Elite include Brady, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Peyton if he returns to form, and tentatively Eli, depending on who you ask. That's 5 guys. Of course, careers aren't over yet so it's hard to say exactly how many elite QBs there are in the league today, but as it stands there are 4 or 5 guys that are viewed as elite.

Compare that to years from the past... let's go with early 1994. Marino, Elway, Young, Aikman, Moon, Favre, Kelly, and Montana (albeit his later years, he still finished top 10 in most leaderboards). That's 7 elite hall of famers and one elite soon to be hall of famer.

Looking at today's quarterbacks with an honest assessment, how many quarterbacks can you really place in front of Romo that aren't elite? 2 or 3 at best (Berger, Rivers... and who else?)

Romo is probably the 8th best QB in the league. I can't really put him any higher, can't see him any lower since the criteria for Romo not being higher is 'he hasn't proven anything'. None of the other guys behind him have either (Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, etc...).

DragonSoul
04-17-2012, 03:36 AM
probably 5-7... but I'm tired of beating a dead horse.

SweetZombieJesus
04-17-2012, 09:00 AM
However, your statement describes the Jets game and Lions game to a tee. Other than that he had 4 gw drives this year, and had 2 more that special teams just didn't capitalize-- meaning he did his part in just as many 4th quarter performances in the regular season as Eli. Now I'm not comparing Romo to Eli in that respect-- I'm just pointing out that the biggest reason Romo seems like a choker is because the only time Romo is really put in the spotlight is when he fails. When he performs to the contraire of popular belief, it's not covered by the media nearly as extensively.

I know you said you're not trying to compare the two, but Eli had 5 comebacks (plus two more in the NFC CG and SB) and set the NFL record for 4th quarter TDs.

The problem with Romo is when he has the boneheaded play (such as at the end of a playoff game with the ball in his hands). And that when he gets his chance on stage, such as against the Giants for the division title, he shrivels. Can you tell me when he has risen to the occasion when the stakes are high? When does he deliver?

flamethrower
04-17-2012, 09:44 AM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.


I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.

JPP
04-17-2012, 01:11 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>
Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!

...



Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

...
<font color="#FF0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>



I think age of Elites is incorrect. I think "golden age of hyperbole and high media coverage" would be a more apt description of the leauge today.

Imean, the Elite include Brady, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Peyton if he returns to form, and tentatively Eli, depending on who you ask. That's 5 guys. Of course, careers aren't over yet so it's hard to say exactly how many elite QBs there are in the league today, but as it stands there are 4 or 5 guys that are viewed as elite.

Compare that to years from the past... let's go with early 1994. Marino, Elway, Young, Aikman, Moon, Favre, Kelly, and Montana (albeit his later years, he still finished top 10 in most leaderboards). That's 7 elite hall of famers and one elite soon to be hall of famer.

Looking at today's quarterbacks with an honest assessment, how many quarterbacks can you really place in front of Romo that aren't elite? 2 or 3 at best (Berger, Rivers... and who else?)

Romo is probably the 8th best QB in the league. I can't really put him any higher, can't see him any lower since the criteria for Romo not being higher is 'he hasn't proven anything'. None of the other guys behind him have either (Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, etc...).





I can agree with this for the most part, he isn't bad necessarily he just isn't in the Elite. But what has really happened is all the media coverage he used to garner when you guys were making the playoffs and he was boy wonder is coming back to bite him on the ***. Now all the media heads that bumped him up so much are dragging him down because he didn't live up to expectations and win you guys a couple SB already. So it is a little ridiculous because as much as we like to think winning is everything, and it usually does solve most problems, there are many great QB's with no championships who are still great not everybody meets the right circumstances and gets to go win championships. I think the question would be if he was in Roethlisberger's shoes would he have won as much? Or viceversa would the Cowboys be a better team or be more productive in the post season with a different QB?

Ntegrase96
04-17-2012, 08:51 PM
However, your statement describes the Jets game and Lions game to a tee. Other than that he had 4 gw drives this year, and had 2 more that special teams just didn't capitalize-- meaning he did his part in just as many 4th quarter performances in the regular season as Eli. Now I'm not comparing Romo to Eli in that respect-- I'm just pointing out that the biggest reason Romo seems like a choker is because the only time Romo is really put in the spotlight is when he fails. When he performs to the contraire of popular belief, it's not covered by the media nearly as extensively.

I know you said you're not trying to compare the two, but Eli had 5 comebacks (plus two more in the NFC CG and SB) and set the NFL record for 4th quarter TDs.

The problem with Romo is when he has the boneheaded play (such as at the end of a playoff game with the ball in his hands). And that when he gets his chance on stage, such as against the Giants for the division title, he shrivels. Can you tell me when he has risen to the occasion when the stakes are high? When does he deliver?


When the stakes are high? Well the stakes haven't really been high lately, as this marks the second year in a row that we've missed the playoffs. But in clutch situations he's improved. I would say the biggest example of that would have been against SF early in the season.

Yeah, my intent wasn't to compare him to Eli (I thought Eli had 6 game winning drives last season). But rather to point out that Romo is capable of performing well in clutch situations, and is comparable to the other QBs in his respective tier.

Ntegrase96
04-17-2012, 08:57 PM
My Top 10 entering into next season would be: 1) Aaron Rodgers 2) Tom Brady 3) Drew Brees 4) Eli Manning 5) Tony Romo 6) Matthew Stafford 7) Philip Rivers 8) Ben Roethlisberger 9) Matt Schaub 10) Peyton Manning (only putting him here because I'm not sure what he's gonna look like after his surgery - but I'm pretty sure he'll still be somewhere on this list)</p>


lol . . . romo ahead of stafford, rivers, ben and peyton</p>
Really, ... Romo is a mediocre QB, at best. A mediocre QB in an age of elites. How many years has that offense been stacked with talent and he's done nothing with it? Nothing!! Romo is not a winner. I'd take Mark Sanchez before I'd take Romo. Sanchez may not be a winner either but I don't know that yet. I do know it about Romo.

Romo is a loser. LEH-HOO ... ZEH-HUR!! LOSER!!

...



Don't let your Cowboys hatred blind you. Romo is a good QB - if he can just not choke during important moments.

...
<font color="#ff0000">Oh, okay then. We'll just pretend that never happens.</font>



I think age of Elites is incorrect. I think "golden age of hyperbole and high media coverage" would be a more apt description of the leauge today.

Imean, the Elite include Brady, Brees, Rodgers, maybe Peyton if he returns to form, and tentatively Eli, depending on who you ask. That's 5 guys. Of course, careers aren't over yet so it's hard to say exactly how many elite QBs there are in the league today, but as it stands there are 4 or 5 guys that are viewed as elite.

Compare that to years from the past... let's go with early 1994. Marino, Elway, Young, Aikman, Moon, Favre, Kelly, and Montana (albeit his later years, he still finished top 10 in most leaderboards). That's 7 elite hall of famers and one elite soon to be hall of famer.

Looking at today's quarterbacks with an honest assessment, how many quarterbacks can you really place in front of Romo that aren't elite? 2 or 3 at best (Berger, Rivers... and who else?)

Romo is probably the 8th best QB in the league. I can't really put him any higher, can't see him any lower since the criteria for Romo not being higher is 'he hasn't proven anything'. None of the other guys behind him have either (Stafford, Ryan, Cutler, Vick, etc...).





I can agree with this for the most part, he isn't bad necessarily he just isn't in the Elite. But what has really happened is all the media coverage he used to garner when you guys were making the playoffs and he was boy wonder is coming back to bite him on the ***. Now all the media heads that bumped him up so much are dragging him down because he didn't live up to expectations and win you guys a couple SB already. So it is a little ridiculous because as much as we like to think winning is everything, and it usually does solve most problems, there are many great QB's with no championships who are still great not everybody meets the right circumstances and gets to go win championships. I think the question would be if he was in Roethlisberger's shoes would he have won as much? Or viceversa would the Cowboys be a better team or be more productive in the post season with a different QB?

I think Romo would have been able to help the Steelers win just as many superbowls as berger, but maybe not the same years.

On the flip side, I don't think Roethlissberger could have won anything here. The Cowboys have lacked a championship caliber defense since they were winning championships. Romo has been a problem in a few past years, but our defense has never been good enough to hold a true playoff contender in check.

Ntegrase96
04-17-2012, 09:01 PM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.


I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.


Disregarding Manning, what about Rivers, Romo, or maybe even Stafford? They rank below Schaub?

I only ask because Schaub's numbers just don't stack up to the first two guys, and he hasn't really proven anything either (something Romo is frequently criticized for).

n420p69
04-17-2012, 11:25 PM
Absolutely is an elite QB. Wouldn't take him over Eli but he is still one of the best in the game today.

flamethrower
04-18-2012, 01:23 AM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.


I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.


Disregarding Manning, what about Rivers, Romo, or maybe even Stafford? They rank below Schaub?

I only ask because Schaub's numbers just don't stack up to the first two guys, and he hasn't really proven anything either (something Romo is frequently criticized for).
Rivers did almost nothing when he had a great team. If the Giants had not made that trade they would not have won either Super Bowl that they won with Manning. Romo, geeze in December, and January when it really matters I can use 1 word that means Choke, Fail, and Drop the Ball. That word is Romoing.

midnite_nj
04-18-2012, 01:45 AM
He's elite at dragging drunk college students in the the bathroom. Thats about it....</p>LMAO !!!

Bing Crosby
04-18-2012, 04:48 AM
In that regard, would you commend Eli for putting up big numbers against the New Orleans defense that gave up after the game was secured?


In the sense that I don't have a problem with an offense trying to catch up some so it doesn't look completely God-awful? No that doesn't bother me, but I didn't see anyone bragging about Eli in that game anyways. The biggest compliment I saw from Eli on that game was that he and Cruz hadn't "given up" like our defense had.

Nevertheless, I still don't have much respect for a coach or a team that doesn't call of the dogs sometime. Yeah I know the excuse "its the game", yeah I played it too, and there is nothing better then rubbing the cross town teams face in your awesomeness. It still doesn't impress me though. Sorry. Watching someone continue to kick a dead horse doesn't excite me, and our D was definitely dead that night.

SweetZombieJesus
04-18-2012, 07:07 AM
When the stakes are high? Well the stakes haven't really been high lately, as this marks the second year in a row that we've missed the playoffs. But in clutch situations he's improved. I would say the biggest example of that would have been against SF early in the season.

Yeah, my intent wasn't to compare him to Eli (I thought Eli had 6 game winning drives last season). But rather to point out that Romo is capable of performing well in clutch situations, and is comparable to the other QBs in his respective tier.


6 game winning drives, 5 of them 4th quarter comebacks (plus two more in the playoffs). Link (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=MannEl00). In the Buffalo game they were tied 24-24 in the 4th.

And last year's week 17 matchup was a high stakes game for Romo -- for the division and a playoff spot.

Ntegrase96
04-19-2012, 12:51 AM
When the stakes are high? Well the stakes haven't really been high lately, as this marks the second year in a row that we've missed the playoffs. But in clutch situations he's improved. I would say the biggest example of that would have been against SF early in the season.

Yeah, my intent wasn't to compare him to Eli (I thought Eli had 6 game winning drives last season). But rather to point out that Romo is capable of performing well in clutch situations, and is comparable to the other QBs in his respective tier.


6 game winning drives, 5 of them 4th quarter comebacks (plus two more in the playoffs). Link (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=MannEl00). In the Buffalo game they were tied 24-24 in the 4th.

And last year's week 17 matchup was a high stakes game for Romo -- for the division and a playoff spot.


And he had a pretty good game don't you think? Considering he was under heavy pressure from a surging Giants defense-- he was sacked 6 times that game. I thought he played pretty well, completing 78 percent of his passes. Did he win the game? No. But he definitely wasn't the reason we lost.

The Cowboys lost the last game of the season because our defense couldn't stop the Giants offense, nor capitalize on three of their huge mistakes.

Ntegrase96
04-19-2012, 01:14 AM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.


I know you're a Texans fan and all, but do you really believe Matt Schaub is the 6th best QB in the league?
Yes I do. As far as Peyton Manning. If he plays at the level that he used to then he is the top QB in the League. But, I am speaking from experience on neck surgeries. Having had the same exact surgery that Peyton had. He won't be the same. But, if I am wrong. I am man enough to come back, and eat crow on this statement.


Disregarding Manning, what about Rivers, Romo, or maybe even Stafford? They rank below Schaub?

I only ask because Schaub's numbers just don't stack up to the first two guys, and he hasn't really proven anything either (something Romo is frequently criticized for).
Rivers did almost nothing when he had a great team. If the Giants had not made that trade they would not have won either Super Bowl that they won with Manning. Romo, geeze in December, and January when it really matters I can use 1 word that means Choke, Fail, and Drop the Ball. That word is Romoing.


And Schaub has had a great offense for the past few years and has accomplished even less than both of those guys-- which is saying a lot since Romo hasn't accomplished much. So far Schaub has had one good year.

And just a tidbit for you. Romo's last two active December-season finale stats:

Romo: 70% completion ratio, 2,708 yards, 19 touchdowns, 3 ints (109.9 Passer rating)

scoopscj
04-19-2012, 02:21 AM
I don't ever get caught up in the whole, 'QB rankings thing' but I'd still like to add my 2 cents on Romo.

There is one quality that has always bugged me about him. He wants to be a star, the center of attention and he doesn't hate losing as much as he enjoys winning.

Let me try to explain that last part. If Eli, Rogers, Aikmen, Marino, Elway, Peyton, Young, Stabauch, etc miss a very important pass, they don't go to the sidelines smiling.

You go back and watch the 2007 NFC divisional round and there were times when Romo missed passes and he is laughing, smiling even. Like, 'Hey, it's no big deal." He also was smiling when he must missed Miles Austin on the now famous, "caught in the lights 3rd down pass play' that could have ended the Giant's season. Romo loves winning but he doesn't hate losing.

Eli and the rest of the QB's I mentioned hate losing. HATE IT. You want to be successful in the NFL you have to hate losing.


Scoops


My 2 cents anyway.

Bohemian
04-19-2012, 08:58 AM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.



Perhaps we can draw from this that there are only about 6 Elite QBs in the league, as those 6 seem to be the only ones with rings. The rest make any top 10 list, but have not proven to be able to take their team over the hump as of yet. I don't know why Peyton Manning would not be on that list.

flamethrower
04-19-2012, 03:53 PM
Hate to say it, but he is Elite. Top 10. I personally place him at #5.
Drew Breez is #1
Aaron Rodgers is #2
Eli Manning is #3
Tom Brady is #4
Roethlisberger is #5
Matt Scaubb is #6 He would be higher, but can't stay healthy.
Matt Stafford is #7
Then you have a Huuuge drop off.



Perhaps we can draw from this that there are only about 6 Elite QBs in the league, as those 6 seem to be the only ones with rings. The rest make any top 10 list, but have not proven to be able to take their team over the hump as of yet. I don't know why Peyton Manning would not be on that list.
If Peyton Manning returns to form. I put him at #3, and drop everyone down 1 spot.
Speaking as someone who has has a neck fusion surgery. The same exact kind that Payton Manning has had. I don't think he will be back to that form. I have already stated that if I turn out to be wrong. I will happily eat crow on this. And as far as Schaubb being on my list. Well on that 1 I admit to being a little bit biased. If I was trolling I would have put him <font size="6">Much <font size="3">Higher on it. </font></font>

Ntegrase96
04-19-2012, 08:57 PM
I don't ever get caught up in the whole, 'QB rankings thing' but I'd still like to add my 2 cents on Romo.

There is one quality that has always bugged me about him. He wants to be a star, the center of attention and he doesn't hate losing as much as he enjoys winning.

Let me try to explain that last part. If Eli, Rogers, Aikmen, Marino, Elway, Peyton, Young, Stabauch, etc miss a very important pass, they don't go to the sidelines smiling.

You go back and watch the 2007 NFC divisional round and there were times when Romo missed passes and he is laughing, smiling even. Like, 'Hey, it's no big deal." He also was smiling when he must missed Miles Austin on the now famous, "caught in the lights 3rd down pass play' that could have ended the Giant's season. Romo loves winning but he doesn't hate losing.

Eli and the rest of the QB's I mentioned hate losing. HATE IT. You want to be successful in the NFL you have to hate losing.


Scoops


My 2 cents anyway.


I don't know about that. As someone that lives in DFW and hears all the interviews with Cowboys quarterbacks past and present, I can tell you that all of them absolutely dread the week after a loss. I don't think Romo is any exception.

But I mean, you have a point. You don't see him angry often and that can be interpreted as Romo not being bothered by losing. I can see how that annoys people. But as far as body language goes, I don't really see much of a difference between Eli and Romo.

I don't recall Romo smiling after Austin didn't catch the ball, but I wouldn't doubt that there were times that Romo had a smile on his face during the divisional game in 2007. But two things about that.

1. There are times when Romo smiling means the opposite of what it looks like. And as a fan of the Cowboys it's a very noticeable difference from when he's having fun and when he's frustrated.

and 2. That was 2007. Over 4 years ago and the first full year in which Romo was the starter. This also applies to the 'he wants to be a star' aspect-- the man is married now and just had a baby boy. The days of Jessica Simpson and making appearances at the Country Music Awards have been over for a while now.

I'd say overall your description of Romo would be fair if this were early 2008, but I just don't see these traits anymore. That's not to say that Romo has risen above all his criticisms, but he's certainly taken steps toward it.

buffyblue
04-19-2012, 10:05 PM
The only real criticism against Romol is that he is not clutch. He performs other times.

It will be interesting to see if he shakes it and shows up in big moments over the next couple seasons.

DragonSoul
04-20-2012, 02:46 PM
1 - Eli Manning - Only QB with 2 SBs, SB winning Drives, SB MVPS in the last 4 years...And this year he carried most of the team.
2 - Peyton (can argue 2 and 3)
3- Brady if he can still play near his level
4 - Rodgers (you can switch 4-5 if u want)
5 - Breez
6 - Roethlisberger
7 - Romo, Schaub, Stafford, Cutler, Cam, Ryan...

Bumm
04-27-2012, 01:54 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

TheBookOfEli
04-27-2012, 07:03 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

And Eli beat an elite Packers team in their house in the playoffs.....TWICE.

Also San Francisco and Dallas were elite in their respective years.

Ben has an elite defense while ours is great but not elite. Plus he's had Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike wallace, Heath Miller, etc.

And the fact that you even have Ben over Peyton is laughable.

Bumm
05-01-2012, 10:39 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

And Eli beat an elite Packers team in their house in the playoffs.....TWICE.

Also San Francisco and Dallas were elite in their respective years.

Ben has an elite defense while ours is great but not elite. Plus he's had Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike wallace, Heath Miller, etc.

And the fact that you even have Ben over Peyton is laughable.

LOL, Ben makes his receivers great, what has Holmes done in NY? WR Antonio Brown a # 5 draft choice putting up nice numbers thanks to Ben. And yes, Ben over 2012 Peyton who may not even have full arm strength. And Eli played behind a better O'line. Watch what Ben does now with DeCastro and a healthy Pouncey on the interior line.

BlueBlitzer
05-03-2012, 04:14 AM
Yeah, if you want to take Rib-eye over Filetminon

BlueBlooded1979
05-03-2012, 04:31 AM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.

Drez
05-03-2012, 06:26 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

And Eli beat an elite Packers team in their house in the playoffs.....TWICE.

Also San Francisco and Dallas were elite in their respective years.

Ben has an elite defense while ours is great but not elite. Plus he's had Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike wallace, Heath Miller, etc.

And the fact that you even have Ben over Peyton is laughable.

LOL, Ben makes his receivers great, what has Holmes done in NY? WR Antonio Brown a # 5 draft choice putting up nice numbers thanks to Ben. And yes, Ben over 2012 Peyton who may not even have full arm strength. And Eli played behind a better O'line. Watch what Ben does now with DeCastro and a healthy Pouncey on the interior line.
You're on ****ing crack.

Drez
05-03-2012, 06:28 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.

THE_New_York_Giants
05-03-2012, 06:51 PM
I don't ever get caught up in the whole, 'QB rankings thing' but I'd still like to add my 2 cents on Romo.

There is one quality that has always bugged me about him.* He wants to be a star, the center of attention and he doesn't hate losing as much as he enjoys winning.*

Let me try to explain that last part.* If Eli, Rogers, Aikmen, Marino, Elway, Peyton, Young, Stabauch, etc miss a very important pass, they don't go to the sidelines smiling.*

You go back and watch the 2007 NFC divisional round and there were times when Romo missed passes and he is laughing, smiling even.* Like, 'Hey, it's no big deal."* He also was smiling when he must missed Miles Austin on the now famous, "caught in the lights 3rd down pass play' that could have ended the Giant's season.*** Romo loves winning but he doesn't hate losing.*

Eli and the rest of the QB's I mentioned hate losing.* HATE IT.* You want to be successful in the NFL you have to hate losing.*


Scoops


My 2 cents anyway.


I don't know about that. As someone that lives in DFW and hears all the interviews with Cowboys quarterbacks past and present, I can tell you that all of them absolutely dread the week after a loss. I don't think Romo is any exception.

But I mean, you have a point. You don't see him angry often and that can be interpreted as Romo not being bothered by losing. I can see how that annoys people. But as far as body language goes, I don't really see much of a difference between Eli and Romo.

I don't recall Romo smiling after Austin didn't catch the ball, but I wouldn't doubt that there were times that Romo had a smile on his face during the divisional game in 2007. But two things about that.

1. There are times when Romo smiling means the opposite of what it looks like. And as a fan of the Cowboys it's a very noticeable difference from when he's having fun and when he's frustrated.

and 2. That was 2007. Over 4 years ago and the first full year in which Romo was the starter. This also applies to the 'he wants to be a star' aspect-- the man is married now and just had a baby boy. The days of Jessica Simpson and making appearances at the Country Music Awards have been over for a while now.

I'd say overall your description of Romo would be fair if this were early 2008, but I just don't see these traits anymore. That's not to say that Romo has risen above all his criticisms, but he's certainly taken steps toward it.

Romo is a poor man's Danny White. He puts up great numbers but finds a way to miraculously lose the game. I have never seen anything like it. Cowboys fans constantly throw statistics at me. I always say Romo is the only QB I know that can throw 80% and have 400 yards and 3 TD's, and somehow his defense messes up. He has the ball in his hand for the final drive and he will make a critical mistake, whether it be int, fumble, throwing the ball beyond the line of scrimmage, running out of bounds too short of a first down, bobbling a snap on a sure field goal, what have you. You name me all the ways a QB can lose a game and Romo has done it. He is the anti-clutch. Romo can win, but he finds a way to lose when it matters. It's funny to watch as a Giants fan, but at the same time it is a big head scratcher. I don't even hate Romo anymore. I feel kind of bad for him. I'd probably cheer for him to win something if he played for a team that wasn't in the NFC East or the Jets. It's amazing the stupid stuff he does in crunch time.

NYGFaninILL
05-04-2012, 11:04 AM
I'd say maybe... He's been blessed with fantastic recievers and oline play in the past. He's also strong as a bull, however he has choked significantly in big games (stats wise) but Elite? You can make a case either or.

Bumm
05-04-2012, 02:23 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.


Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.

THE_New_York_Giants
05-04-2012, 02:57 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.


Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.
I don't understand why people say the NFC East is an easy division. Year in and year out people hype up the Eagles and the Cowboys. Then the Giants emerge. IMO, The NFC North, AFC North, and the NFC East are the best three divisions in football. The wildcards almost always come out of those divisions.

alau53
05-04-2012, 03:12 PM
i like big ben..out of the 3 from '04 eli is best suited to play in ny..ben too much nightlife and rivers is a hot head..san diego would have been better off with ben at the helm instead of rivers..gmen liked ben better too

Drez
05-04-2012, 04:29 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.


Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.
You are still smoking that rock. The NFCE has consistently been one of the toughest divisions in football for years. The past two years have been the exception. IIRC, since Eli joined the Giants the NFCE has sent 3 teams to the playoffs twice and 2 teams an additional 4 times.

So, yeah, the Steelers have to play the Ravens twice, but that also means they get to play the Browns and Bengals twice. Give me a ****ing break. I'll take that trade off everyday and twice on Sundays to not have to play the Eagles and Cowboys twice a year and now an improving Redskins team.

Ignorant *** crackheads, I tell you.

Bumm
05-04-2012, 11:23 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.


Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.
You are still smoking that rock. The NFCE has consistently been one of the toughest divisions in football for years. The past two years have been the exception. IIRC, since Eli joined the Giants the NFCE has sent 3 teams to the playoffs twice and 2 teams an additional 4 times.

So, yeah, the Steelers have to play the Ravens twice, but that also means they get to play the Browns and Bengals twice. Give me a ****ing break. I'll take that trade off everyday and twice on Sundays to not have to play the Eagles and Cowboys twice a year and now an improving Redskins team.

Ignorant *** crackheads, I tell you.


Eagles, Redskins LOL, Cowboys most over hyped team in the league, not even in the Ravens class. Didn't Miami nearly beat them at home? Bengals were in the playoffs last season.

Drez
05-04-2012, 11:35 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.


Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.
You are still smoking that rock. The NFCE has consistently been one of the toughest divisions in football for years. The past two years have been the exception. IIRC, since Eli joined the Giants the NFCE has sent 3 teams to the playoffs twice and 2 teams an additional 4 times.

So, yeah, the Steelers have to play the Ravens twice, but that also means they get to play the Browns and Bengals twice. Give me a ****ing break. I'll take that trade off everyday and twice on Sundays to not have to play the Eagles and Cowboys twice a year and now an improving Redskins team.

Ignorant *** crackheads, I tell you.


Eagles, Redskins LOL, Cowboys most over hyped team in the league, not even in the Ravens class. Didn't Miami nearly beat them at home? Bengals were in the playoffs last season.
Haven't the Bengals had a losing record in like 17 of the last 20 seasons? What about the Browns? Talk about a weak division.

Now run along there, l'il shaver. Class dismissed.

NYG 5
05-05-2012, 12:26 AM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.


Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.
You are still smoking that rock. The NFCE has consistently been one of the toughest divisions in football for years. The past two years have been the exception. IIRC, since Eli joined the Giants the NFCE has sent 3 teams to the playoffs twice and 2 teams an additional 4 times.

So, yeah, the Steelers have to play the Ravens twice, but that also means they get to play the Browns and Bengals twice. Give me a ****ing break. I'll take that trade off everyday and twice on Sundays to not have to play the Eagles and Cowboys twice a year and now an improving Redskins team.

Ignorant *** crackheads, I tell you.


Eagles, Redskins LOL, Cowboys most over hyped team in the league, not even in the Ravens class. Didn't Miami nearly beat them at home? Bengals were in the playoffs last season.

the Cowboys are not the Browns.

the skins and bungles are comparable: they both have jeckel and hyde defenses every other year.

ravens and eagles are comparable.

the NFCE is better, but only slightly. AFCN just has the browns caking the division, like the bills and dolphins have done for the AFCE, or the raiders in the AFCW

Ntegrase96
05-05-2012, 12:10 PM
If I were ranking the teams of the NFCE and AFCN over the last few years and not off of last year alone

Giants and Steelers: Push
Ravens
Eagles/Cowboys (kind of a toss up depending on the year)
Redskins/Bengals: Push


Browns

I'd say the NFCE is a tougher division to come out on top because the 'checks and balances' each team seems to have over another-- IE: Giants sweep Cowboys, Cowboys Sweep Redskins, Redskins sweep Giants, Giants split with Philly who swept both Dallas and Washington-- 5 and 1 in the east-- but Philly fails to win the division?

And while there are 2 top teams in the AFCN, obviously Ben can only play against one because he's on the other. So the toughest divisional games he has are two games against Baltimore.

The AFCN is top heavy, but that doesn't make it a harder path for Ben than Eli has with the NFCE.

Eli is better. No. Doubt. About. It.

Bumm
05-05-2012, 01:50 PM
If I were ranking the teams* of the NFCE and AFCN* over the last few years and not off of last year alone

Giants and Steelers: Push
Ravens
Eagles/Cowboys (kind of a toss up depending on the year)
Redskins/Bengals: Push


Browns

I'd say the NFCE is a tougher division to come out on top because the 'checks and balances' each team seems to have over another-- IE: Giants sweep Cowboys, Cowboys Sweep Redskins, Redskins sweep Giants, Giants split with Philly who swept both Dallas and Washington-- 5 and 1 in the east-- but Philly fails to win the division?

And while there are 2 top teams in the AFCN, obviously Ben can only play against one because he's on the other. So the toughest divisional games he has are two games against Baltimore.

The AFCN is top heavy, but that doesn't make it a harder path for Ben than Eli has with the NFCE.

Eli is better. No. Doubt. About. It.




I'll give Eli his props as a clutch playoff QB but we're talking elite stats here. Eli had the benefit of a solid receiving corps plus one of the best front 7 on defense. Ben in the playoffs was without Pouncey, Mendenhall, Hampton, Clark, Keisel, Woodley, two starting tackles, and had two undrafted players at offensive gaurd. Eli wouldn't last behind that line but Ben still played with a high ankle sprain. Sorry, but Eli's success has come when he had more supporting cast in place, which he needs to win in the playoffs. Eli lost Plax and didn't repeat until after they drafted Nicks with a high draft choice, Ben won a Superbowl right after losing Plax, and he did it with receivers like Randel El and Cedric Wilson. No doubt Ben gets the nod here.

Ntegrase96
05-05-2012, 04:11 PM
If I were ranking the teams of the NFCE and AFCN over the last few years and not off of last year alone

Giants and Steelers: Push
Ravens
Eagles/Cowboys (kind of a toss up depending on the year)
Redskins/Bengals: Push


Browns

I'd say the NFCE is a tougher division to come out on top because the 'checks and balances' each team seems to have over another-- IE: Giants sweep Cowboys, Cowboys Sweep Redskins, Redskins sweep Giants, Giants split with Philly who swept both Dallas and Washington-- 5 and 1 in the east-- but Philly fails to win the division?

And while there are 2 top teams in the AFCN, obviously Ben can only play against one because he's on the other. So the toughest divisional games he has are two games against Baltimore.

The AFCN is top heavy, but that doesn't make it a harder path for Ben than Eli has with the NFCE.

Eli is better. No. Doubt. About. It.




I'll give Eli his props as a clutch playoff QB but we're talking elite stats here. Eli had the benefit of a solid receiving corps plus one of the best front 7 on defense. Ben in the playoffs was without Pouncey, Mendenhall, Hampton, Clark, Keisel, Woodley, two starting tackles, and had two undrafted players at offensive gaurd. Eli wouldn't last behind that line but Ben still played with a high ankle sprain. Sorry, but Eli's success has come when he had more supporting cast in place, which he needs to win in the playoffs. Eli lost Plax and didn't repeat until after they drafted Nicks with a high draft choice, Ben won a Superbowl right after losing Plax, and he did it with receivers like Randel El and Cedric Wilson. No doubt Ben gets the nod here.

I agree Eli had a better supporting cast with Cruz and Nicks, but the Giants offensive line graded out 31st in the league by PFF. Granted, PFF is not the end all be all for a debate-- the stats they produce are helpful but have their place. But I do think the ranking has its merit and justifies that Eli's offensive line was rather putrid, just as Big Ben's was.

And it's not exactly like Ben's has chopped liver to throw to-- He has Mike Wallace. And the Giants had their share of injuries during the season as well. Countless players didn't even make it out of training camp. Yes, the Giants got healthy and on a roll into the playoffs, which was quite the opposite of what happened with the Steelers. But if we're comparing quarterback play alone, Eli was better than Roethlissberger last year.

Really the only reason anyone considers Roethlissberger to be ranked in the top 10 is because he has two rings and three superbowl appearances. It's not shabby, but his stats aren't remarkable by any means. It's the same story with Eli minus one superbowl appearance. But this is where Eli beats Ben. He is a better playoff and superbowl quarterback than Ben Roethlissberger, which is where Ben made his name in the first place.

Bumm
05-05-2012, 06:47 PM
Not sure why you would say that since Ben has more playoff wins and appearances than Eli, which means he gets to the playoffs more often. And his playoff stats are comparable to if not outright exceeding the top elite QBs in the league.

ralphpal
05-05-2012, 08:25 PM
They both great . Also both are great for the teams they play for . I would take either one but since im a Giant fan and like Eli's off field activies more than Big Ben i would rather have Eli .
Now that Big Ben is married and is older he probably wont pull the same stunt .
But both are great , but are clutch and both know how to win .
What are we arguing for they came out of the same class . So if Eli doesnt win i dont mind if big ben win . Also Like Pitt as a team also .

Ntegrase96
05-06-2012, 12:48 AM
Not sure why you would say that since Ben has more playoff wins and appearances than Eli, which means he gets to the playoffs more often. And his playoff stats are comparable to if not outright exceeding the top elite QBs in the league.

Manning's biggest weak spot is turnovers. However, in the playoffs, he's much better at protecting the ball than big ben. Ben Roethlissberger has 20 touchdowns to 17 interceptions and has an 83 rating. Not bad, but not great. Eli has a TD to turnover ratio of 2:1. And he doesn't really stack up with the top Quarterbacks all that well. Both Rodgers and Brees have career playoff passer ratings over 100. Typically they just don't have the defenses to fall back on... excluding the years they won the superbowl.

Overall, football is a team game and the Steelers consistently have a top 5 defense that helps them get there. Not saying Ben has nothing to do with their success, but more playoff appearances does not translate into him being a better QB.

Bumm
05-06-2012, 10:08 AM
If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.

Drez
05-06-2012, 05:41 PM
If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.
Our DL is excellent, but our LBs are mediocre at best. Our LB play is so weak that we often have to use a safety in a hybrid LB role to help cover up the deficiencies at the intermediate level of our defense.

Ummm, the Steelers lost to the freaking Tebow led Broncos.

You lose.

Bohemian
05-06-2012, 05:44 PM
Hey, they Killed us with the Damn question ad nauseum, didn't they ?

Yes, he is. A great competitor, and a winner. His team is always in contention with him on the field, and he is a good leader in the locker room. He is not the prototypical QB, but he gets it done in more ways than one. He is a top 10 QB in the league.

Bumm
05-06-2012, 05:49 PM
If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.
Ummm, the Steelers lost to the freaking Tebow led Broncos.

You lose.


LOL, lets see Eli play with a high ankle sprain and no O'line.

Bohemian
05-06-2012, 05:52 PM
If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.
Ummm, the Steelers lost to the freaking Tebow led Broncos.

You lose.


LOL, lets see Eli play with a high ankle sprain and no O'line.

Eli is one tough mother... so it is not hard to imagine that, but the fact is that Ben is also one tough mother... I think that what appeals to me most about Ben is his leadership, because despite of his off the field issues, he has never lost the respect of his teammates... and that definitely makes him a huge asset to his team.

Ntegrase96
05-06-2012, 07:27 PM
If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.

And Brady and Peyton have better playoff performances than Ben as well.

But let's just look at Ben vs Eli in the playoffs.

Eli:
11 Games, 219 of 356, 61.5%, 2516 yards, 17 TDs, 8 ints, 7.07 YPA, 89.3 Rating, Record: 8-3

Ben:
14 Games, 248 of 409, 60.6%, 3,150, 20 TDs, 17 ints, 7.70 YPA, 83.7 rating, Record 10-4

Overall pretty equal numbers, but Eli's better at protecting the ball than Roethlissberger.

But as you've stated, Roth has faced tougher defenses for sure in his playoff path, so perhaps that's the reason for the discrepancy.

So for now I'll say it's a push.

Drez
05-06-2012, 08:34 PM
If you want to play that game, Eli had the best front 7 defense in the playoffs last year and faced some of the weakest defenses in the playoffs, NE and GB. His biggest challenge, an over-rated 49ers team with Alex Smith at QB.

Ben on the other hand often faces Baltimore in the divisional or champoinship game with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis and Terrel Suggs and has a pretty good track record against them.

And Elite playoff QB's also include the likes of Peyton, Brady, etc. Breese and Rogers haven't seen enough playoff time yet and their stats would have to be measured over the long term.

And Brady and Peyton have better playoff performances than Ben as well.

But let's just look at Ben vs Eli in the playoffs.

Eli:
11 Games, 219 of 356, 61.5%, 2516 yards, 17 TDs, 8 ints, 7.07 YPA, 89.3 Rating, Record: 8-3

Ben:
14 Games, 248 of 409, 60.6%, 3,150, 20 TDs, 17 ints, 7.70 YPA, 83.7 rating, Record 10-4

Overall pretty equal numbers, but Eli's better at protecting the ball than Roethlissberger.

But as you've stated, Roth has faced tougher defenses for sure in his playoff path, so perhaps that's the reason for the discrepancy.

So for now I'll say it's a push.





That might hold true for this past year, but does not hold for the '07 run or nearly any of our other playoff appearances with Eli.

When we lost to the Panthers in '05 they had the 3rd ranked defense in both yards and scoring.

In '06, the Eagles had an average defense, 15th in both measures. However, after a slow start, Eli did tie the game up with about a minute left in the fourth and the defense let the Jeff Garcia helmed Eagles march down the field a score a FG as time expired. IIRC, the defense even let up a 3rd and very long on that drive.

For our '07 SB run we had to face the Bucs who were the 2nd ranked defense in yards and 3rd in points; Dallas
was 9th in yards, 13th in points; GB was 11th in yards, 6th in points,
and the Patriots were 4th in both yards and points. All of those games were road games, too. (The Steelers lost
to the Jaguars in the WC round that year).

When we lost to the Eagles in '08, they had the 3rd ranked defense in yards and 4th in points.

And even for the teams we faced this year, the Falcons were a top 10 defense if I recall. The Niners defense was hardly anything but overrated. Eli got thoroughly abused that game and didn't miss a beat. The Packers though they gave up a lot of yards were middle of the pack in scoring defense. They were also amongst the best in the league at forcing turnovers, too.

So, I don't think you can fairly say that Ben has faced tougher defenses in the playoffs just because he's had to face the Ravens a couple of times.

BillTheGreek
05-10-2012, 03:17 AM
He's good, but not Elite !

n420p69
05-10-2012, 08:26 PM
Speaking of quarterbacks I have a question for you NTG96. Alot of Cowboys fans seem to feel that since Romo has the better regular season numbers that he is the better quarterback then Eli and I feel 100% otherwise obviously. Do you have that opinion?

jomo
05-10-2012, 08:53 PM
Headache!

Ntegrase96
05-10-2012, 09:02 PM
Speaking of quarterbacks I have a question for you NTG96. Alot of Cowboys fans seem to feel that since Romo has the better regular season numbers that he is the better quarterback then Eli and I feel 100% otherwise obviously. Do you have that opinion?



Not really. Eli is quite a bit better than Romo at this point. For the most part they're equal in skill, but Romo seems to still be learning how to close and finish games which is something Eli learned in the 2007 playoffs. I mean, Eli's always had flashes of being a great quarterback in late games, but it wasn't until 2007 that he was able to put an end to the games like he had against Tennessee with 3 interceptions in the 4th, and the games against Minny when Sharper was still there.

From a talent Standpoint, I'd say they rival each other in different categories. But as goofy as Eli looks, he's a much smarter quarterback than Romo-- and that's a huge part of playing the position.

Romo is unfairly criticized, but this is what separates the two quarterbacks right now.

Sarcasman
05-11-2012, 05:58 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.


Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.

Baltimore plays in Pittsburgh's division. Last time I checked, no one names a division after a team that occasionally wins the division. If anything the moniker would belong to the team that has won the division more often in recent years and that would be, not Baltimore.

Sarcasman
05-11-2012, 06:02 PM
1. Breese
2, Brady
3. Rogers
4. Ben
5. Peyton
6. Eli

Ben does more with less, Better over all stats than Eli. Beat an elite Colts team with Peyton in their house during 2005 playoffs.

Ben did less with more you mean. They had the number 1 defense and number 1 rushing attack in 2005. His best play that game was tackling Nick Harper.

Ben is top ten because he manages to win games with a garbage OL. He has never carried that team.
I believe Ben has never made the playoffs if his defense is ranked under 5th in yards and/or points allowed.


Ben also plays in Baltimore's division. Eli in the NFC East has had an easier path to the playoffs.
You are still smoking that rock. The NFCE has consistently been one of the toughest divisions in football for years. The past two years have been the exception. IIRC, since Eli joined the Giants the NFCE has sent 3 teams to the playoffs twice and 2 teams an additional 4 times.

So, yeah, the Steelers have to play the Ravens twice, but that also means they get to play the Browns and Bengals twice. Give me a ****ing break. I'll take that trade off everyday and twice on Sundays to not have to play the Eagles and Cowboys twice a year and now an improving Redskins team.

Ignorant *** crackheads, I tell you.


Eagles, Redskins LOL, Cowboys most over hyped team in the league, not even in the Ravens class. Didn't Miami nearly beat them at home? Bengals were in the playoffs last season.


In recent years there is absolutely a case to be made that there may be some parity between the NFCE and the AFCN. It really depends on how far one wants to look back.

That's the funny thing about statistics, they are generally directionally correct but rarely specifically correct particularly when viewed over extended periods of time.

Sarcasman
05-11-2012, 06:06 PM
If I were ranking the teams* of the NFCE and AFCN* over the last few years and not off of last year alone

Giants and Steelers: Push
Ravens
Eagles/Cowboys (kind of a toss up depending on the year)
Redskins/Bengals: Push


Browns

I'd say the NFCE is a tougher division to come out on top because the 'checks and balances' each team seems to have over another-- IE: Giants sweep Cowboys, Cowboys Sweep Redskins, Redskins sweep Giants, Giants split with Philly who swept both Dallas and Washington-- 5 and 1 in the east-- but Philly fails to win the division?

And while there are 2 top teams in the AFCN, obviously Ben can only play against one because he's on the other. So the toughest divisional games he has are two games against Baltimore.

The AFCN is top heavy, but that doesn't make it a harder path for Ben than Eli has with the NFCE.

Eli is better. No. Doubt. About. It.




I'll give Eli his props as a clutch playoff QB but we're talking elite stats here. Eli had the benefit of a solid receiving corps plus one of the best front 7 on defense. Ben in the playoffs was without Pouncey, Mendenhall, Hampton, Clark, Keisel, Woodley, two starting tackles, and had two undrafted players at offensive gaurd. Eli wouldn't last behind that line but Ben still played with a high ankle sprain. Sorry, but Eli's success has come when he had more supporting cast in place, which he needs to win in the playoffs. Eli lost Plax and didn't repeat until after they drafted Nicks with a high draft choice, Ben won a Superbowl right after losing Plax, and he did it with receivers like Randel El and Cedric Wilson. No doubt Ben gets the nod here.

What nod?

I think they're both elite (for what that meaningless and stupidly subjective term is worth) but I don't anyone in this thread actually proffered that Ben is a much better QB.

I think Ben does some great things, I can see he and Eli being viewed comparatively.