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DownWitJPP
04-17-2012, 11:41 PM
this should make some people on this board happy, not me though. Don't think he fits our scheme.

Alabama's Donta Hightower visited the Giants today. On his way to see the Bears tomorrow. He's a hot commodity right now.

from SI's Peter King on twitter

slipknottin
04-17-2012, 11:48 PM
Well I think he can make a very good SAM.

Which may be a need going forward, seeing as Kiwi is in the last year of his deal.

DownWitJPP
04-18-2012, 12:01 AM
yea he would definitely be better @ SAM then MLB, but I still think he is more of a 3-4 ILB

he can't be any worse than Sintim lol

Drez
04-18-2012, 12:03 AM
Here's the question, though, when was the last time we drafted a higher profile player that came for a pre-draft visist?

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 12:07 AM
Here's the question, though, when was the last time we drafted a higher profile player that came for a pre-draft visist?


JPP, Jernigan, Sintim, Barden, Tracy, Beckum, Im sure there are more.

Neverend
04-18-2012, 12:08 AM
Interesting

I think this is the giants being open minded, looking at all options. If Hightower is moderately high on their board, he would be a solid pick. Love him as a player, dont overly like him for the giants though

DownWitJPP
04-18-2012, 12:09 AM
lol we were having this argument in my other thread, don't let Neverend or nycsportzfan hear u say that

I honestly can't answer that, but I don't remember any off the top of my head, at least not first rounders

greenca190
04-18-2012, 12:12 AM
Here's the question, though, when was the last time we drafted a higher profile player that came for a pre-draft visist?


JPP, Jernigan, Sintim, Barden, Tracy, Beckum, Im sure there are more.

I didn't know who any of those guys were prior to us drafting them... I know who Donta Hightower is.

B-Red22
04-18-2012, 12:16 AM
Here's the question, though, when was the last time we drafted a higher profile player that came for a pre-draft visist?


JPP, Jernigan, Sintim, Barden, Tracy, Beckum, Im sure there are more.

Adrian Tracy was a high profile guy???

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 12:21 AM
I didn't know who any of those guys were prior to us drafting them... I know who Donta Hightower is.

Um. I would consider any players drafted in the first couple rounds to be pretty high profile players.

How many giants draft picks do you consider high profile if you never heard of anyone? None of them?

G-Men Surg.
04-18-2012, 12:22 AM
Smoke screen !!!!

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 12:22 AM
Adrian Tracy was a high profile guy???

The others werent? Giants bring in players they draft quite frequently, that part is clear.

Whether guys are "high profile" or not is a pointless exercise. That depends on how closely you follow the draft.

Neverend
04-18-2012, 12:26 AM
Smoke screen !!!!

A popular belief, but the giants dont play those type of games

I remember this was the general, overall feel when they brought in JPP for a visit. Nearly everyone thought it was a smoke screen and JR being a "genius" through some odd idea of manipulation and mind games. Turns out, they actually liked him lol

XxBigWhitxX
04-18-2012, 12:30 AM
I like Hightower and a lot of people said the same thing about scheme with Rolando McClain (Also from bama) and he is doing just fine as a 4-3 MLB for Oakland. I think Hightower can play MLB and to those who say he's slow, to me he doesn't look slow he looks controlled. he doesn't take unnecessary steps and is a subtle scraper who takes good angles. I rarely see him take a bad angle.

Drez
04-18-2012, 12:31 AM
Here's the question, though, when was the last time we drafted a higher profile player that came for a pre-draft visist?


JPP, Jernigan, Sintim, Barden, Tracy, Beckum, Im sure there are more.
Hmm. For whatever reason I was under the assumption that we normally didn't draft guys we brought in for visits. Guess I was very, very wrong. Thanks for dispelling that misbelief.

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 12:33 AM
I like Hightower and a lot of people said the same thing about scheme with Rolando McClain (Also from bama) and he is doing just fine as a 4-3 MLB for Oakland. I think Hightower can play MLB and to those who say he's slow, to me he doesn't look slow he looks controlled. he doesn't take unnecessary steps and is a subtle scraper who takes good angles. I rarely see him take a bad angle.

I dont think Hightower is slow, but he is a very linear player. Change of direction is not his strong suit.

B-Red22
04-18-2012, 12:42 AM
Adrian Tracy was a high profile guy???

The others werent? Giants bring in players they draft quite frequently, that part is clear.

Whether guys are "high profile" or not is a pointless exercise. That depends on how closely you follow the draft.

the draft is a holiday to me, so i guess you could say i follow it pretty close, and a 6th rd pick i would not consider "high profile"

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 12:43 AM
the draft is a holiday to me, so i guess you could say i follow it pretty close, and a 6th rd pick i would not consider "high profile"

Ignore Tracy then. JPP, Jernigan, Sintim, Barden, etc.

DownWitJPP
04-18-2012, 12:46 AM
I like Hightower and a lot of people said the same thing about scheme with Rolando McClain (Also from bama) and he is doing just fine as a 4-3 MLB for Oakland. I think Hightower can play MLB and to those who say he's slow, to me he doesn't look slow he looks controlled. he doesn't take unnecessary steps and is a subtle scraper who takes good angles. I rarely see him take a bad angle.

I dont think Hightower is slow, but he is a very linear player. Change of direction is not his strong suit.

bingo! his change of direction is terrible, I felt bad for him at the combine. he isn't slow, but I prefer a faster more athletic linebacker in a 4-3. He would be a perfect 3-4 ILB. I bet the Steelers draft him

egyptian420
04-18-2012, 12:46 AM
I'd actually be surprised if he's still there at 32

G-Men Surg.
04-18-2012, 12:50 AM
Smoke screen !!!!

A popular belief, but the giants dont play those type of games

I remember this was the general, overall feel when they brought in JPP for a visit. Nearly everyone thought it was a smoke screen and JR being a "genius" through some odd idea of manipulation and mind games. Turns out, they actually liked him lol

LOL, I'm just joking bro but its interesting to see the Giants considering picking Dont'a if available. Seriously he could look awesome in Blue.

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 12:51 AM
bingo! his change of direction is terrible, I felt bad for him at the combine. he isn't slow, but I prefer a faster more athletic linebacker in a 4-3

I wonder though, if they perhaps want to run a system that suits him better. If they move to a wider DL split, maybe a wide 9 on occasion I think Hightower would fit much better.

Hightower athletically reminds me a ton of Stephen Tulloch, who excells in a similar system. But it did take Tulloch a couple seasons to really grasp how to play in coverage because he too is quite a linear player.

jparmer
04-18-2012, 06:52 AM
I'd actually be surprised if he's still there at 32


Exactly, with teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore drafting ahead of us, I don't see any way he falls to our pick. And I don't think Reese has ever moved up in the first round.

GMENAGAIN
04-18-2012, 07:19 AM
Here's the question, though, when was the last time we drafted a higher profile player that came for a pre-draft visist?
JPP, Jernigan, Sintim, Barden, Tracy, Beckum, Im sure there are more. I didn't know who any of those guys were prior to us drafting them... I know who Donta Hightower is.</P>


You never heard of JPP before we drafted him???</P>

nygsb42champs
04-18-2012, 09:05 AM
I do not think he will still be there at 32.

nycsportzfan
04-18-2012, 09:47 AM
Adrian Tracy was a high profile guy??? The others werent? Giants bring in players they draft quite frequently, that part is clear. Whether guys are "high profile" or not is a pointless exercise. That depends on how closely you follow the draft. the draft is a holiday to me, so i guess you could say i follow it pretty close, and a 6th rd pick i would not consider "high profile" The point is we do draft guys we bring in for visits.. Who cares what rd? For all we know, its just coincidently, that alot of guys were looking at Pred Draft Visits that are 1st rd types, either go before we pick or a guy drops that we didn't think would drop, meaning that its possible that the stars align and a guy like say Hightower makes it to our pick in RD 1, and no one else that we like better drops to us, and we draft em.. </P>



JPP also visited us, who was in fact a 1st rd pick of ours.. Even if a player dosen't visit, u can get a idea of interest sometimes based on hering that we had a big group checking out a certain player at the combine or proday, which is just like having em in to our place, but its not at our place..lol </P>


I would say, we don't waste our time visiting with guys, for no reason, anotherwords.. Weather or not everything lines up on Draft Weekend with that paticular prospect is a whole diffrent thing... </P>

nycsportzfan
04-18-2012, 09:49 AM
I do not think he will still be there at 32. Ya, i don't think so either.. TO much potential, as a franchise, captain, lead your team for a decade from the LB positon , to drop to pick 32 of RD 1...

Shockeystays08
04-18-2012, 10:00 AM
Smoke screen !!!!

Why would you have a smoke screen at pick 32? If he's there at 32 and we want him we take him if not we don't. We don't need to fake someone out about it!

RonJon
04-18-2012, 10:03 AM
I've seen at least 3 mock drafts that have Giants taking Hightower with the first pick. Couple have us taking OT Mike Adams

Shockeystays08
04-18-2012, 10:12 AM
I doubt he would be there at 32. If he is we will take him. This "he doesn't fit our system stuff is hogwash. He is better than ANY LB on our roster, with leadership skills, and top production as a leader from the best defense in college football. But he does't fit us? Kudos to those of you who realize his talent and potential. This guy has tore up opposing offenses in the SEC for quite a while now, we get him Fewell will make it work , he will adjust his defense as need be if need be. It kills me how so many on this board who critique a player they no very little about.

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 02:10 PM
"he doesn't fit our system stuff is hogwash.

You do realize system fit is perhaps the most important part of bringing in new players, right?

I dont think you force a DC to change the system he runs because you drafted a rookie, especially after he just won the SB running the system that is already in place. You find players that can do what you want and fit in.

Blue_Buddha
04-18-2012, 03:12 PM
I agree somewhat but unlike college you can't go a recruit players that fit your system.
1. There are a limited number of talented prospects that you can choose.
2. You can't choose whom ever you want past the first pick
3. You can't pass up talent because it doesn't fit your system. There are exceptions, if you are running a 4-3 you might want to pass by the top nose tackle or maybe pass up a QB because you don't need it.
4. Good coaches always find a way to get talent on the field. You either coach the talent to fit your system or add nuances to the system to fit the talent. In the NFL the System should not be set in stone because the game will evolve to beat you.

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 03:17 PM
1. There are a limited number of talented prospects that you can choose.
ok...

2. You can't choose whom ever you want past the first pick
What do you mean? of course you can.

3. You can't pass up talent because it doesn't fit your system. There are exceptions, if you are running a 4-3 you might want to pass by the top nose tackle or maybe pass up a QB because you don't need it.
You absolutely can pass up talent if it doesnt fit your system. Because there are plenty of players who DO fit your system. If you are ever in a situation where there are good players, none of which fit your system, you trade that pick.

4. Good coaches always find a way to get talent on the field. You either coach the talent to fit your system or add nuances to the system to fit the talent. In the NFL the System should not be set in stone because the game will evolve to beat you.

Good coaches can evaluate players and tell if they fit in with what they want to do before the players are brought in. Thats why coaches are involved in the draft process.

Scouts go out and evaluate players based on player talent alone, then coaches come in and evaluate how players fit with what they want to run.

Blue_Buddha
04-18-2012, 04:30 PM
1. There are a limited number of talented prospects that you can choose. ok...
2. You can't choose whom ever you want past the first pick What do you mean? of course you can.
3. You can't pass up talent because it doesn't fit your system. There are exceptions, if you are running a 4-3 you might want to pass by the top nose tackle or maybe pass up a QB because you don't need it. You absolutely can pass up talent if it doesnt fit your system. Because there are plenty of players who DO fit your system. If you are ever in a situation where there are good players, none of which fit your system, you trade that pick.
4. Good coaches always find a way to get talent on the field. You either coach the talent to fit your system or add nuances to the system to fit the talent. In the NFL the System should not be set in stone because the game will evolve to beat you. Good coaches can evaluate players and tell if they fit in with what they want to do before the players are brought in. Thats why coaches are involved in the draft process. Scouts go out and evaluate players based on player talent alone, then coaches come in and evaluate how players fit with what they want to run.</P>


</P>


I guess we just have different philosophies how teams should draft. To me to get ahead in teh NFL you constantly have to evolve your system so no onefully figures itout. The fastest way way tothat is to adjust your system yearly to the talent pool that comes in. Yes you get guys that fit your system but you can'tpass up talentthat will potentially wreak havoc in the NFL. </P>


When the Patriots drafted two TE recently when thier offense doesn't revolve around a TEs it wasa head scrathcher.They got two athletic guys but are they doing with two TEs? Guess what they found a way to use them effectively they evolved.They made up for thier running game and complimented they passing attack with those two TEs.</P>


Finding system guys isn't total hogwash, it works. I just belive teams shouldn't limit themselves to the coach's system. </P>

TheEnigma
04-18-2012, 04:52 PM
I don't see him really playing MLB for our defense. He doesn't possess the sideline to sideline speed needed to cover a bigger area of the field in the pass game or to help out on runs at the other end.

He would probably be a very good SOLB if he came here and with his pass rushing ability as well, he looks like the perfect replacement for Kiwi if we don't wish to resign him.

But should we really use a 1st round selection on a SOLB?

CGYgiant
04-18-2012, 05:02 PM
I don't see him really playing MLB for our defense. He doesn't possess the sideline to sideline speed needed to cover a bigger area of the field in the pass game or to help out on runs at the other end.

He would probably be a very good SOLB if he came here and with his pass rushing ability as well, he looks like the perfect replacement for Kiwi if we don't wish to resign him.

But should we really use a 1st round selection on a SOLB?

Yeah, I don't know about drafting what would essentially be a 2-down linebacker. Maybe they see something in him, I mean our run defense was terrible at times this past year and he can most definitely help out with that. Again, we do have bigger needs but I trust this coaching staff.

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 06:09 PM
I guess we just have different philosophies how teams should draft. To me to get ahead in teh NFL you constantly have to evolve your system so no one*fully figures it*out. The fastest way way to*that is to adjust your system yearly to the talent pool that comes in. *Yes you get guys that fit your system but you can't*pass up talent*that will potentially wreak havoc in the NFL.

I understand what you are saying, but what the patriots did wasent really unique. Teams had always valued inline TEs and move TEs. Patriots were fortunate to find one of each in the same draft. Their offense did not have to change to incorporate them. There was always a spot for them to use both players.

Their offense evolved afterwards because they decided to part with Moss.

Likewise, with Hightower there are only so many things he can do. Hes a thumper, he struggles with change of direction, and hes never going to be good in man coverage.

So how do you use a player like that? Well there are a couple ways, 3-4 ILB he would be perfect, he may fit in an over or under front as the up LB. And he may fit as a 4-3 SAM.

With their strength at DE, giants arent moving to a 3-4. 4-3 under and over defenses require one of the ends to play man up on an OT, and 2 gap. It could be done, but none of the giants DEs are ideal players for that, all of them are up the field rushers. So the only fit for Hightower would be at SAM. They currently have four pretty good OLBs on the roster, Boley, Kiwi, Rivers, and J Will. So where does Hightower plug in?

DownWitJPP
04-18-2012, 06:21 PM
agreed, he is better off playing in a 3-4 as an ILB. If we do indeed draft him, I would think the Giants would use him as a SAM to replace Kiwi next year like others have mentioned. It would also get rid of Sintim lol

to the guy that said "he doesn't fit our scheme is hogwash" go do a little more research and then comment. All teams in the NFL draft based on their scheme.

B&RWarrior
04-18-2012, 06:45 PM
I guess we just have different philosophies how teams should draft. To me to get ahead in teh NFL you constantly have to evolve your system so no one*fully figures it*out. The fastest way way to*that is to adjust your system yearly to the talent pool that comes in. *Yes you get guys that fit your system but you can't*pass up talent*that will potentially wreak havoc in the NFL.

I understand what you are saying, but what the patriots did wasent really unique. Teams had always valued inline TEs and move TEs. Patriots were fortunate to find one of each in the same draft. Their offense did not have to change to incorporate them. There was always a spot for them to use both players.

Their offense evolved afterwards because they decided to part with Moss.

Likewise, with Hightower there are only so many things he can do. Hes a thumper, he struggles with change of direction, and hes never going to be good in man coverage.

So how do you use a player like that? Well there are a couple ways, 3-4 ILB he would be perfect, he may fit in an over or under front as the up LB. And he may fit as a 4-3 SAM.

With their strength at DE, giants arent moving to a 3-4. 4-3 under and over defenses require one of the ends to play man up on an OT, and 2 gap. It could be done, but none of the giants DEs are ideal players for that, all of them are up the field rushers. So the only fit for Hightower would be at SAM. They currently have four pretty good OLBs on the roster, Boley, Kiwi, Rivers, and J Will. So where does Hightower plug in?

Are you saying we officially are not drafting Levonte David because we're set at OLB? Do you think Kiwi is good in coverage? Is there a MLB available that will be worth the 32nd pick?

I'm against moving Boley to MLB. He's the best LB we have covering TEs.

B&RWarrior
04-18-2012, 06:45 PM
I guess we just have different philosophies how teams should draft. To me to get ahead in teh NFL you constantly have to evolve your system so no one*fully figures it*out. The fastest way way to*that is to adjust your system yearly to the talent pool that comes in. *Yes you get guys that fit your system but you can't*pass up talent*that will potentially wreak havoc in the NFL.

I understand what you are saying, but what the patriots did wasent really unique. Teams had always valued inline TEs and move TEs. Patriots were fortunate to find one of each in the same draft. Their offense did not have to change to incorporate them. There was always a spot for them to use both players.

Their offense evolved afterwards because they decided to part with Moss.

Likewise, with Hightower there are only so many things he can do. Hes a thumper, he struggles with change of direction, and hes never going to be good in man coverage.

So how do you use a player like that? Well there are a couple ways, 3-4 ILB he would be perfect, he may fit in an over or under front as the up LB. And he may fit as a 4-3 SAM.

With their strength at DE, giants arent moving to a 3-4. 4-3 under and over defenses require one of the ends to play man up on an OT, and 2 gap. It could be done, but none of the giants DEs are ideal players for that, all of them are up the field rushers. So the only fit for Hightower would be at SAM. They currently have four pretty good OLBs on the roster, Boley, Kiwi, Rivers, and J Will. So where does Hightower plug in?

Are you saying we officially are not drafting Levonte David because we're set at OLB? Do you think Kiwi is good in coverage? Is there a MLB available that will be worth the 32nd pick?

I'm against moving Boley to MLB. He's the best LB we have covering TEs.

NY4U2
04-18-2012, 06:53 PM
IDK I think if Hightower is there we will draft him and give him a shot @ MLB I dont think we draft him to play a diff position. At the least he'll be a 2 down type of guy. Im sorta tired of seeing us draft players and try to fit them into positions there not used too it seems the only player that has worked out for is Kiwi.

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 06:55 PM
[

Are you saying we officially are not drafting Levonte David because we're set at OLB? Do you think Kiwi is good in coverage? Is there a MLB available that will be worth the 32nd pick?

I'm against moving Boley to MLB. He's the best LB we have covering TEs.

Well Levonte David projects best as a weakside backer, in college he has the exact same role that Boley has for the giants.

But the Giants have three guys who are weakside backers, J Will, Boley, and Rivers. Where does David play? Do you draft him and start him then have the other couple guys just play STs? Its hard to incorporate 3 or 4 weakside backers into the defense, unless you are running a rotation like they do on the DL.

As for MLB, Kuechly is probably the best fit, but even he has somewhat of a narrow frame and may translate better to weakside. Its a tough position to fill.

And all we have for draft history at the position is Greg Jones, Philip Dillard, and Jon Goff.

And if you compare those three guys, for size, athleticism, ability, I think the only thing they all have in common is that they are all about 240 pounds.

Goff is 6'2 240, pretty athletic for his size, ran a 4.63 40, and had a 35" vert.

Dillard is 6'0 240, ran a 4.65 and had a 31" vert.

Then Jones, who is 5'11 240 ran a 4.75 and had a 31" vert.

If anything, they are losing height and athleticism as they go. Lol

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 06:56 PM
IDK I think if Hightower is there we will draft him and give him a shot @ MLB I dont think we draft him to play a diff position.

Its a different position no matter where he plays, he was a ILB in a 3-4 in college. Though he also played OLB, occasionally DE, etc.

Redeyejedi
04-18-2012, 07:02 PM
I personally wouldnt like this pick very much. He is a 2 down player anyway u slice it. U cant tell me this is the best value u can find for this Football team at #32. No way u can convince me of it

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 07:04 PM
I personally wouldnt like this pick very much. He is a 2 down player anyway u slice it. U cant tell me this is the best value u can find for this Football team at #32. No way u can convince me of it

He could potentially be an exact replacement for Kiwi. Provided they believe Hightower can play some DE, which I thought he showed some ability in college.

Is the value in Kiwi that of a first round pick though? A two down LB who can also play some DE and chip in maybe 4 or so sacks a year? Seems you could find that type of player later in the draft

Redeyejedi
04-18-2012, 07:05 PM
IDK I think if Hightower is there we will draft him and give him a shot @ MLB I dont think we draft him to play a diff position.

Its a different position no matter where he plays, he was a ILB in a 3-4 in college. Though he also played OLB, occasionally DE, etc.He played with his hand down about 10-20 snaps a game depending on opponent. Usually in Nickel packages

Redeyejedi
04-18-2012, 07:10 PM
I personally wouldnt like this pick very much. He is a 2 down player anyway u slice it. U cant tell me this is the best value u can find for this Football team at #32. No way u can convince me of it

He could potentially be an exact replacement for Kiwi. Provided they believe Hightower can play some DE, which I thought he showed some ability in college.

Is the value in Kiwi that of a first round pick though? A two down LB who can also play some DE and chip in maybe 4 or so sacks a year? Seems you could find that type of player later in the draft Why do the Giants feel like they need to put guys that cant turn there hips at SAM I dont get it. I would love to know why

NY4U2
04-18-2012, 07:15 PM
IDK I think if Hightower is there we will draft him and give him a shot @ MLB I dont think we draft him to play a diff position.

Its a different position no matter where he plays, he was a ILB in a 3-4 in college. Though he also played OLB, occasionally DE, etc.


Thats what I mean I think if this guy is bpa @ 32 (which looking at the board i dont think he will be) we draft him to come in and compete for MLB. I dont particularly like him @ 32 he's more like a high 2nd round. I mean (just my opinion) what would be the point of drafting him (if he's not bpa) that high to play OLB? When we could get someone who is rated higher @ a diff position. Dont get me wrong I wouldn't mind having him I think he's a great player. But does he have value to be picked that high only to come in and wait behind someone (for at least 1 year most likely more. That means we'll be picking him to be a 2nd stringer not much value there.

NY4U2
04-18-2012, 07:22 PM
I personally wouldnt like this pick very much. He is a 2 down player anyway u slice it. U cant tell me this is the best value u can find for this Football team at #32. No way u can convince me of it

He could potentially be an exact replacement for Kiwi. Provided they believe Hightower can play some DE, which I thought he showed some ability in college.

Is the value in Kiwi that of a first round pick though? A two down LB who can also play some DE and chip in maybe 4 or so sacks a year? Seems you could find that type of player later in the draft

I think Kiwi brings more to the table then just what you mentioned. The guy is a fast learner a team player and a plug and play type of guy. Not every player is willing to leave there natural (where they played in college/excel at) If you said someone diff maybe but kiwi is the man not the greatest but he has many intangibles

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 07:24 PM
[I think Kiwi brings more to the table then just what you mentioned. The guy is a fast learner a team player and a plug and play type of guy. Not every player is willing to leave there natural (where they played in college/excel at) If you said someone diff maybe but kiwi is the man not the greatest but he has many intangibles


Well Hightower does in college what Kiwi does for the giants... so it is mostly plug and play for hightower, and I dont think he would complain about bouncing back and forth bewteen positions either, as he is comfortable doing so.

XxBigWhitxX
04-18-2012, 07:28 PM
1. There are a limited number of talented prospects that you can choose.
ok...

2. You can't choose whom ever you want past the first pick
What do you mean? of course you can.

3. You can't pass up talent because it doesn't fit your system. There are exceptions, if you are running a 4-3 you might want to pass by the top nose tackle or maybe pass up a QB because you don't need it.
You absolutely can pass up talent if it doesnt fit your system. Because there are plenty of players who DO fit your system. If you are ever in a situation where there are good players, none of which fit your system, you trade that pick.

4. Good coaches always find a way to get talent on the field. You either coach the talent to fit your system or add nuances to the system to fit the talent. In the NFL the System should not be set in stone because the game will evolve to beat you.

Good coaches can evaluate players and tell if they fit in with what they want to do before the players are brought in. Thats why coaches are involved in the draft process.

Scouts go out and evaluate players based on player talent alone, then coaches come in and evaluate how players fit with what they want to run.Doesn't the fact that the Giants brought Hightower show they think he can fit there system?

NY4U2
04-18-2012, 07:29 PM
[I think Kiwi brings more to the table then just what you mentioned. The guy is a fast learner a team player and a plug and play type of guy. Not every player is willing to leave there natural (where they played in college/excel at) If you said someone diff maybe but kiwi is the man not the greatest but he has many intangibles


Well Hightower does in college what Kiwi does for the giants... so it is mostly plug and play for hightower, and I dont think he would complain about bouncing back and forth bewteen positions either, as he is comfortable doing so.

lol what ever happens @ 32 I trust Reese I know he wont reach if theres some1 with a way higher grade just to fill a pos. We'll just have to wait and see for the most part I like Reeses pieces (picks) some were head scratchers (Beckum) but ill leave that for another post..

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 07:32 PM
Doesn't the fact that the Giants brought Hightower show they think he can fit there system?

They bring in guys that they need to see more from, either on field or in meetings.

If they were already confident Hightower would fit the team, they would have no reason to bring him in at all...

And Its not a matter of whether he fits or not, its a matter of where and what role. I think most of us agree that he fits at SAM. But how does that make sense for the giants unless they either are planning on moving on from Kiwi next year, or are moving Kiwi this year?

Or do they think he can play at Mike? And do they think he can be a 3 down player at Mike, or is he strictly a 2 down Mike? And is a 2 down player worthy of a first round pick?

TheEnigma
04-18-2012, 07:35 PM
Hightower would of been a beast on the 80's Giants.

If you ask me, I think we would be doing a disservice to this kid's career and future by bringing him to a 4-3 team. I'm not saying he would be a bust here but the roof is higher so to speak for a 3-4 team.

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 07:37 PM
Hightower would of been a beast on the 80's Giants.

If you ask me, I think we would be doing a disservice to this kid's career and future by bringing him to a 4-3 team. I'm not saying he would be a bust here but the roof is higher so to speak for a 3-4 team.

Yea I really think if you look at how Hightower fits on the Steelers, as the thumper next to Timmons and can also play OLB to spell Harrison and Woodley, that is just a perfect fit for both.

B&RWarrior
04-18-2012, 07:52 PM
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Are you saying we officially are not drafting Levonte David because we're set at OLB? Do you think Kiwi is good in coverage? Is there a MLB available that will be worth the 32nd pick?

I'm against moving Boley to MLB. He's the best LB we have covering TEs.

Well Levonte David projects best as a weakside backer, in college he has the exact same role that Boley has for the giants.

But the Giants have three guys who are weakside backers, J Will, Boley, and Rivers. Where does David play? Do you draft him and start him then have the other couple guys just play STs? Its hard to incorporate 3 or 4 weakside backers into the defense, unless you are running a rotation like they do on the DL.

As for MLB, Kuechly is probably the best fit, but even he has somewhat of a narrow frame and may translate better to weakside. Its a tough position to fill.

And all we have for draft history at the position is Greg Jones, Philip Dillard, and Jon Goff.

And if you compare those three guys, for size, athleticism, ability, I think the only thing they all have in common is that they are all about 240 pounds.

Goff is 6'2 240, pretty athletic for his size, ran a 4.63 40, and had a 35" vert.

Dillard is 6'0 240, ran a 4.65 and had a 31" vert.

Then Jones, who is 5'11 240 ran a 4.75 and had a 31" vert.

If anything, they are losing height and athleticism as they go. Lol

Kuechly won't fall to No. 32. Goff's 40 time is surprising. Ray Lewis ran a 4.6, but if you asked me if Goff was as fast as Lewis I would've said no way. Lewis has way better range, and everything else.

Yeah I'm thinking we draft Fleener or go O-line in the first round. I'm thinking guard.

slipknottin
04-18-2012, 07:58 PM
Kuechly won't fall to No. 32.
Probably not, but Ive seen stranger things.


Goff's 40 time is surprising. Ray Lewis ran a 4.6, but if you asked me if Goff was as fast as Lewis I would've said no way. Lewis has way better range, and everything else.
Lewis was also running his 40 before those things were particularly trained for. I have heard reports that in his prime, Lewis ran sub 4.5. But he has such incredible instincts and lateral ability his straight line speed was probably never a huge deal anyway


Yeah I'm thinking we draft Fleener or go O-line in the first round. I'm thinking guard.
I think they can go a bunch of directions. Hard to predict what players will be around for them to chose from at 32. Much easier when they are picking in the top 15.

Redeyejedi
04-18-2012, 08:36 PM
I would draft Kendricks before the other Inside LB's.I think his value is better. Very aggressive player.1 of my favorite guys to watch games of

Captain Chaos
04-18-2012, 08:56 PM
I'm glad to see that they are looking at least, don't know if he will make it to us or if he is a smoke screen but I'm glad they are looking!

King Sully
04-18-2012, 09:00 PM
I would draft Kendricks before the other Inside LB's.I think his value is better. Very aggressive player.1 of my favorite guys to watch games of

i really like kendricks as well.

Strahan4gov
04-18-2012, 10:01 PM
Regardless of the system fit, maybe they see him in a different position than linebacker.

greenca190
04-18-2012, 10:10 PM
Adrian Tracy was a high profile guy???

The others werent? Giants bring in players they draft quite frequently, that part is clear.

Whether guys are "high profile" or not is a pointless exercise. That depends on how closely you follow the draft.

You're just totally dismantling what the original comment said.

Redeyejedi
04-18-2012, 10:18 PM
Regardless of the system fit, maybe they see him in a different position than linebacker.He fits quite well as a SAM LB for the Giants. If he is used the same way Kiwi is it wouldnt be much different then what he did at Alabama. Playing MLB for the Giants however would be different.

JMFP2
04-18-2012, 10:19 PM
Hightower will become a solid LB for the Ravens or Steelers.....if he is still around at 32, Giants should grab him, unless a higher value OT is on the board.</P>


CBS has him ranked at #41 in the draft, going anywhere from 29-43....Judge has the Giants taking him</P>


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1632205</P>

Strahan4gov
04-18-2012, 10:22 PM
Regardless of the system fit, maybe they see him in a different position than linebacker.He fits quite well as a SAM LB for the Giants. If he is used the same way Kiwi is it wouldnt be much different then what he did at Alabama. Playing MLB for the Giants however would be different.

Definitely, but I was thinking since he is almost the exact size of Osi (6'2 265 for Donta, and 6'3 255 for Osi) coupled with his ability to get after the QB and physical tool kit maybe they were checking the DE potential. It would also negate his biggest weakness in change of direction being less of an issue than it is at LB.

JJC7301
04-18-2012, 11:45 PM
It's funny how I used to complain that we didn't have 1 stud LB, and now I'm just happy that we have competent LBs. Now I just pray that we'll draft a d-lineman or someone for the secondary.

I'll be fine if we draft a LB in the 1st, as long as he's able to start this year. I'd rather draft another DE that we can groom when we eventually have to part ways with either Osi or Kiwi or both.

We already lost Tolly so our depth is starting to get depleted at our key position on D.

RichGiants81
04-19-2012, 08:48 AM
You're always full of it dude. No reason to bring him in at all if they already knew he was a fit for the system? I guess the giants wouldn't care at all about his character or ability to learn their scheme at all right?

RichGiants81
04-19-2012, 08:49 AM
Doesn't the fact that the Giants brought Hightower show they think he can fit there system?

They bring in guys that they need to see more from, either on field or in meetings.

If they were already confident Hightower would fit the team, they would have no reason to bring him in at all...

And Its not a matter of whether he fits or not, its a matter of where and what role. I think most of us agree that he fits at SAM. But how does that make sense for the giants unless they either are planning on moving on from Kiwi next year, or are moving Kiwi this year?

Or do they think he can play at Mike? And do they think he can be a 3 down player at Mike, or is he strictly a 2 down Mike? And is a 2 down player worthy of a first round pick?

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 11:53 AM
You're always full of it dude. No reason to bring him in at all if they already knew he was a fit for the system? I guess the giants wouldn't care at all about his character or ability to learn their scheme at all right?

I said... bring him in to see if he fits either on field or in meetings.

But generally you dont work a guy out on the field if you are worried about character and learning... Field work is simply to see what kind of athlete and what he can do on the field physically.

DownWitJPP
04-19-2012, 03:14 PM
You're always full of it dude. No reason to bring him in at all if they already knew he was a fit for the system? I guess the giants wouldn't care at all about his character or ability to learn their scheme at all right?

JR has said on record that sometimes he brings guys in for a closer look that might have some question marks. He has also said on record that u don't need to bring guys like Kenny Phillips in for a closer look because u know exactly what your getting. I will look for the article