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View Full Version : How does everyone think RGIII will turn out? Are you worried?



AllTuckedUp
04-19-2012, 08:38 AM
I think RGIII has the skillset, work ethic, and everything else you need to be a successful QB in the NFL. However, sometimes that isn't enough. I believe it all depends on the Redskins organization. If he doesn't pan out it is their fault.

BlueJayC
04-19-2012, 08:41 AM
Realistically with any OTHER organization he could be a nightmare for the Giants and their fans in 2-3 years....luckily for us and the Giants Snyder is still running the ship and their front office is atrocious....he will still make plays but the Redskins won't surround him with the appropriate personnel to make them a contender.......until they're sold or flip their front office......as you've noted...

GMENAGAIN
04-19-2012, 09:08 AM
You have to be worried any time another potential franchise QB comes into your division . . . . .

rxc999
04-19-2012, 09:08 AM
Good thing that we have to deal with vick twice..we know how to get to a running qb..if RGIII is anything like him..we are prepared...but those deadskins..dont have weapons for RGIII.

b_ELI_eve
04-19-2012, 09:10 AM
Last year, I (among many others) thought Cam Newton wasn't going to be good in the NFL. Well we know how that turned out. So I'm hoping for the opposite this year. RGIII in my mind (among many others) will be really good. So well see how it turns out this year....

TheEnigma
04-19-2012, 09:19 AM
If he turns out the way he should, heck yeah I'm worried. A QB is usually in their prime around their 5th to 8th year and that just happens to fall around the same time Eli should hit his "twilight" years.

Vick isn't a long term answer for the Eagles and they are also due for a coaching change if Reid does his usual again.

While Romo is a good QB, you have to wonder how much longer they stick with him when it seems like he has hit his ceiling. Maybe he will forever be a good regular season QB and never a playoff one?

There's a decent possibility a few years down the road where the Skins will have dominance in the division when Eli's body starts slowing down and our other rivals are dealing with young QB's/new coaches.

Of course, we should also count on the possibility of Shanahan being too stubborn to put RG3 in the best situation possible as well.

tuck&rolle
04-19-2012, 09:35 AM
Personally, I think he's been overrated. Kind of looks like Tavaris Jackson with more arm strength to me... but I'm no scout lol. We'll see how he turns out, but he's not exactly being thrust into a favorable situation with that offense

hungrrrry
04-19-2012, 09:36 AM
What made Peyton Manning great was, of course, the skills, talent and football accumen that he possessed, but also that the coaches recognized it and gave him a lot of control and responsibility. Calling his on plays and so on...that way, Peyton didn't have to absorb a whole lot of a new system, they built a system that worked for him and that he was very comfortable with.

RGIII will need a similar thing to happen in order for things to go as well for him as Peyton. The problem is, Shanahan is a control freak and will not budge on the "system" for any player. RGIII will become a Vick-type player and not a Peyton-type player. Shanahan understands the run-game far better than the passing game. McNabb, as much as we all blasted him when he was with the Eagles, was a decent QB with a gun. He wasn't always accurate but usually put up good numbers. Shanahan couldn't take advantage of that because he couldn't give some control to Donovan, even though McNabb has already proven himself in the NFL at a high level of production. Donovan lost his elusiveness, RGIII has it and that is what Shanahan will try to exploit. But he would be a fool...

Does anyone consider Vick "ELITE"? Not that I know of...even the eagles seem to have their doubts. Who are the top 5 QB's? Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Manning...maybe mix in Matt Stafford? Pocket passers with a couple having the ability to be somewhat elusive (Brees and Rodgers).

I definately think he can be Washingtons best QB in decades, but, that really isn't saying a whole lot.

Though RIII has been touted as being a better prospect than Cam Newton, an asterick should have been placed next to that statement saying "unless he is picked up by Washington or the Raiders"

egyptian420
04-19-2012, 09:40 AM
I was always skeptical of mobile QB's, especially rookies that are coming right out of the gate.....until I seen what Cam did last year. I have no idea how RG3 will turn out but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he's a stat monster.

Am I worried though? Heck no......I will never be worried about the Redskins.

nygpolishpunk
04-19-2012, 09:41 AM
I don't remember who said it a couple months back, but I believe that RG3's success in the NFL will highly depend on whether or not he is allowed to develop as a passer in his first years.

Knowing the skins as an organization and Snyder as an owner, he wants results NOW. What that could mean for RG3 is being asked to just make plays no matter what, which in his case would result in more running than he should be doing as a developing QB. That may lead to more wins for the skins this year but their young QB won't really have the opportunity to develop as a passer as much and he'll be more prone to injuries early in his career. This could potentially ruin him in the long run.

I would be more worried if they let RG3 develop as a passer and make sure he has the pass first mentality. If that happens, holy hell, look out because in a few years the Skins offense could be a force. Otherwise, yeah, he'll improve the team but not to the point where you have to be worried.

Seducer
04-19-2012, 09:51 AM
They swept us last year with Rex Grossman but some how everyone is writing the Redskins off as an awful franchise. Hmm. That confuses me. They have a good RB and just signed several pretty good receivers and have a great TE. Their offense is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be.

hungrrrry
04-19-2012, 10:02 AM
They swept us last year with Rex Grossman but some how everyone is writing the Redskins off as an awful franchise.* Hmm.* That confuses me.* They have a good RB and just signed several pretty good receivers and have a great TE.* Their offense is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be.I will say...both times we played the skins, Perry Fewell was still trying to play our DL/pass rushers as CB's. Everyone agrees that our defensive gameplan was rubbish throughout most of the regular season. The skins don't do so well if we rush 4 all game long instead of 3 as Fewell did. That is the obvious point to make here, seriously!


aside from that: Andrew Luck will need to be afforded some control too to succeed in Indy...I believe he will be though...that coaching staff has no reason to be arrogant and stubborn to disallow that, BUT, these days, coaching staffs, especially OC's don't like QB's calling the plays on their own.

egyptian420
04-19-2012, 10:07 AM
They swept us last year with Rex Grossman but some how everyone is writing the Redskins off as an awful franchise. Hmm. That confuses me. They have a good RB and just signed several pretty good receivers and have a great TE. Their offense is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be.I will say...both times we played the skins, Perry Fewell was still trying to play our DL/pass rushers as CB's. Everyone agrees that our defensive gameplan was rubbish throughout most of the regular season. The skins don't do so well if we rush 4 all game long instead of 3 as Fewell did. That is the obvious point to make here, seriously!


aside from that: Andrew Luck will need to be afforded some control too to succeed in Indy...I believe he will be though...that coaching staff has no reason to be arrogant and stubborn to disallow that, BUT, these days, coaching staffs, especially OC's don't like QB's calling the plays on their own.
I saw it a bit differently....at least the second time we faced them. Our defense did everything they could to stop Rex, specially early on. Our offense was pathetic in both games we played them, same with the Philly game we played at home.

B&RWarrior
04-19-2012, 10:16 AM
He will end up in the ICU if get's in JPP's zone!

Flip Empty
04-19-2012, 10:48 AM
They swept us last year with Rex Grossman but some how everyone is writing the Redskins off as an awful franchise. Hmm. That confuses me. They have a good RB and just signed several pretty good receivers and have a great TE. Their offense is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be.
Well they are an awful franchise, but not an awful team.

B&RWarrior
04-19-2012, 11:05 AM
They swept us last year with Rex Grossman but some how everyone is writing the Redskins off as an awful franchise. Hmm. That confuses me. They have a good RB and just signed several pretty good receivers and have a great TE. Their offense is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be.
Well they are an awful franchise, but not an awful team.
Yeah 3 SB Rings in a10 year span is awful.

Redskins v. Giants was a great rivalry in the 80's and early 90's. Looks like it's a time for war again.

burier
04-19-2012, 11:14 AM
We should all be concerned as all signs point to RG3 being a total beast. Dan Snyder has nothing to do with it.

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 11:16 AM
I have a lot of reservations about how RG3 is going to play. Guess we will wait and see, but I think he is going to struggle a ton.

Flip Empty
04-19-2012, 11:20 AM
They swept us last year with Rex Grossman but some how everyone is writing the Redskins off as an awful franchise. Hmm. That confuses me. They have a good RB and just signed several pretty good receivers and have a great TE. Their offense is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be.
Well they are an awful franchise, but not an awful team.
Yeah 3 SB Rings in a10 year span is awful.
Huh? Obviously I mean in its current state. RGIII will be going to the franchise which overpaid Donovan McNabb and Albert Haynesworth, not the one from the eighties.


That team is young as hell. That's the most worrying thing. They could become a long-term problem in the years to come.

burier
04-19-2012, 11:21 AM
I have a lot of reservations about how RG3 is going to play. Guess we will wait and see, but I think he is going to struggle a ton.

based on?

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 11:24 AM
based on?

His accuracy from inside the pocket, and his smaller frame.

Think he may get banged around a lot and start running instead of trying to make throws downfield.

burier
04-19-2012, 11:34 AM
based on?

His accuracy from inside the pocket, and his smaller frame.

Think he may get banged around a lot and start running instead of trying to make throws downfield.

Eh we'll see but I strongly doubt that's going to be an issue.

One thing is..Who said QBs have to play in the pocket? if he's better throwing on the run than that's what he'll do.

I remember the total hysteria surrounding Mike Vick and how he "Must become a better pocket passer" BS.

Every damn analyst was spouting that nonsense Vick even started to believe it.

He gets locked up..come back and starts playing his same old style of football and everyone thinks he's god.

If a the QB runs a 4.zap and can throw on the run he doesn't need to play in the damn pocket.

Also there's a trend in the NFL right now...its called "Don't even look at QBs too hard" So I highly doubt anyone's getting banged around to the point where he's going to get happy feet.

giantsfan420
04-19-2012, 11:35 AM
based on?

His accuracy from inside the pocket, and his smaller frame.

Think he may get banged around a lot and start running instead of trying to make throws downfield.

i agree.

his frame is not going to sustain a bunch of hits, and unfortunately for him, the redskins OL is not good.

then there's also the fact that he played in a spread/gimmick type offense at Baylor...

then theres' the fact that RG3 looked nothing like the stand out he's being labeled when he played vs the better d's in college...

extending plays can be very effective, but at the same time, it can also backfire when trying to force throws after escaping a sack (ala Brady in the SB int to Chase)

Jason Cambell was a very touted, talented player out of Auburn. He had several passing records, and seemed every bit a sure thing as RG3...how'd that work out? Cambell is still trying to display the talent he has consistently...

Will we see flashes of RG3 playing brilliantly? Probably. Does that mean he isn't going to struggle? Nope, and in fact, with the way Washington and even Shannahan handle their team and players, I bet RG3 becomes Aaron Brooks II....

all it takes is one hit for a season to be wasted, and at the QB position, on that team, the way RG3 plays it...I don't know, I'm not worried at all really..he should be worried knowing he'll face JPP, Tuck, Osi?, Kiwi and the rest of our defense.

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 11:37 AM
One thing is..Who said QBs have to play in the pocket? if he's better throwing on the run than that's what he'll do.

Sustained success in the NFL requires throws from the pocket.


I remember the total hysteria surrounding Mike Vick and how he "Must become a better pocket passer" BS.
Vick's best year was the one he threw from the pocket the most.


Also there's a trend in the NFL right now...its called "Don't even look at QBs too hard" So I highly doubt anyone's getting banged around to the point where he's going to get happy feet.

Theres a list of QBs who get injured every year...

burier
04-19-2012, 11:39 AM
One thing is..Who said QBs have to play in the pocket? if he's better throwing on the run than that's what he'll do.

Sustained success in the NFL requires throws from the pocket.


I remember the total hysteria surrounding Mike Vick and how he "Must become a better pocket passer" BS.
Vick's best year was the one he threw from the pocket the most.


Also there's a trend in the NFL right now...its called "Don't even look at QBs too hard" So I highly doubt anyone's getting banged around to the point where he's going to get happy feet.

Theres a list of QBs who get injured every year...


Again..says who?

What year are you referring to?

What do QB injuries have to do with your point about RG3 running too much?

BigBlue1971
04-19-2012, 11:41 AM
I have a lot of reservations about how RG3 is going to play. Guess we will wait and see, but I think he is going to struggle a ton.</P>


</P>


^this!</P>


i think defenses will develop plans and defenses to control these type players!</P>


defensing Vick has given the G-Men and other teams insights on controlling players such as this including Cam Newton and soon to come RGIII!</P>

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 11:43 AM
Again..says who?
Says every scout, GM, coach, and draft analyst. You simply can not have the QB running on every play, cant make every play a rollout or bootleg. And if you mean have him scramble and throw doing that, that is simply not sustainable, as its playing outside of the structure of the offense. Will lead to a ton of negative plays.


What year are you referring to?
2010


What do QB injuries have to do with your point about RG3 running too much?
You said he isnt going to get hit to the point of getting hurt. QBs with similar frames (Vick) get beat up every year, and try to avoid getting hit by running around, only to end up getting hit even more.

burier
04-19-2012, 12:00 PM
Again..says who?
Says every scout, GM, coach, and draft analyst. You simply can not have the QB running on every play, cant make every play a rollout or bootleg. And if you mean have him scramble and throw doing that, that is simply not sustainable, as its playing outside of the structure of the offense. Will lead to a ton of negative plays.


What year are you referring to?
2010


What do QB injuries have to do with your point about RG3 running too much?
You said he isnt going to get hit to the point of getting hurt. QBs with similar frames (Vick) get beat up every year, and try to avoid getting hit by running around, only to end up getting hit even more.

Mike Vick proves all those people wrong.

In 2010 Mike Vick had 100 attempts on the ground and registered his 676 yards rushing. He's the total opposite of a pocket passer.

Vick runs because that's his game..Its not for fear of getting hit. If that were the case he'd stay in the pocket where he'd be more thuroughly protected by the rules. I'd say the same would go for RG3. And since RG3 is dangerous when running I don't see how that adds up to him struggling. Anyway.

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 12:06 PM
In 2010 Mike Vick had 100 attempts on the ground and registered his 676 yards rushing. He's the total opposite of a pocket passer.
Dont confuse "pocket passer" with having to make throws from the pocket. Theres nothing wrong with a QB who has the ability to scramble. But to be an NFL QB they absolutely HAVE to make throws from inside the pocket. Have to be able to move and avoid pressure inside the pocket. Cant rely on scrambling alone, it breaks down the structure of the offense.

Vick in 2010 stayed in the pocket and completed passes. He relied on his arm first and his legs second. Thats what RG3 is going to have to do. Scrambling plays are fluke plays, they cant be relied upon.


Vick runs because that's his game..Its not for fear of getting hit.

Its both. When Vick feels pressure he starts running around. There are plenty of times where he could hang tough in the pocket and complete passes, but instead of feels pressure and runs around.

burier
04-19-2012, 12:19 PM
In 2010 Mike Vick had 100 attempts on the ground and registered his 676 yards rushing. He's the total opposite of a pocket passer.
Dont confuse "pocket passer" with having to make throws from the pocket. Theres nothing wrong with a QB who has the ability to scramble. But to be an NFL QB they absolutely HAVE to make throws from inside the pocket. Have to be able to move and avoid pressure inside the pocket. Cant rely on scrambling alone, it breaks down the structure of the offense.

Vick in 2010 stayed in the pocket and completed passes. He relied on his arm first and his legs second. Thats what RG3 is going to have to do. Scrambling plays are fluke plays, they cant be relied upon.


Vick runs because that's his game..Its not for fear of getting hit.

Its both. When Vick feels pressure he starts running around. There are plenty of times where he could hang tough in the pocket and complete passes, but instead of feels pressure and runs around.

Sure I'd say since offfenses are set up for pocket passes a QB is going to have to throw from the pocket at times.

Vick always relied on his arm first...Its just more often than not makes one read and then runs....sometimes he runs to throw though. In Philly he finnally got recievers who got open in a timely fashion making him look more efficient from the "pocket".

There are times when other QBs would hang in the pocket and complete the pass..but they don't run a 4.zap. Or aren't pinpoint accurate on the run. Just because he runs rather than looking to his 3rd read doesn't mean he's scared...just means his game isn't traditional.

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 12:22 PM
Sure I'd say since offfenses are set up for pocket passes a QB is going to have to throw from the pocket at times.
No, every NFL offense requires the QB to throw from the pocket MOST of the time. There is no offense that has the QB on rollouts or bootlegs on every play. Its simply not possible, it is too easy to defend.


Vick always relied on his arm first...Its just more often than not makes one read and then runs...
One read then run is not the same thing. Standing in the pocket going through your reads, moving within the pocket, that is what it takes to be an NFL QB, and Vick started doing that when he went to the eagles.


There are times when other QBs would hang in the pocket and complete the pass..but they don't run a 4.zap. Or aren't pinpoint accurate on the run. Just because he runs rather than looking to his 3rd read doesn't mean he's scared...just means his game isn't traditional.

This "not traditional" argument is another way of saying not effective. Vick is most effective when he is playing within the structure of the offense. Reverting to backyard football and making up your own play is not a way to be consistently successful.

Toadofsteel
04-19-2012, 12:25 PM
RG3 will probably bum it for a few years on the redskins before being released. Then he'll leave in free agency or get traded, most likely to the Patriots to replace a retiring Tom Brady, where he will begin to excel.

The point is, RG3 is an awesome QB, but an awesome QB can't always make up for a crappy system like Washington has.

Also I think we will at least split vs washington this year. If we had the nascar package from the start of last season and everyone was healthy, we wouldn't have had the trouble we did against them.

burier
04-19-2012, 12:38 PM
Sure I'd say since offfenses are set up for pocket passes a QB is going to have to throw from the pocket at times.
No, every NFL offense requires the QB to throw from the pocket MOST of the time. There is no offense that has the QB on rollouts or bootlegs on every play. Its simply not possible, it is too easy to defend.


Vick always relied on his arm first...Its just more often than not makes one read and then runs...
One read then run is not the same thing. Standing in the pocket going through your reads, moving within the pocket, that is what it takes to be an NFL QB, and Vick started doing that when he went to the eagles.


There are times when other QBs would hang in the pocket and complete the pass..but they don't run a 4.zap. Or aren't pinpoint accurate on the run. Just because he runs rather than looking to his 3rd read doesn't mean he's scared...just means his game isn't traditional.

This "not traditional" argument is another way of saying not effective. Vick is most effective when he is playing within the structure of the offense. Reverting to backyard football and making up your own play is not a way to be consistently successful.

I agree that every offense is set up for pocket passes. I dissagree that its the only way that could work.

In 2010 I didn't see this Vick going through his reads hanging in the pocket player that you saw. I saw a guy who had recievers who were popping open quickly or got open once vick got on the move. Not to mention Vick actually drops so far back that he hardly ever plays in the traditonal pocket even when he stays in the tackle box.

And again i think Michael Vick is highly effective and I don't believe he's a tradional passer.

giantsfan420
04-19-2012, 12:38 PM
In 2010 Mike Vick had 100 attempts on the ground and registered his 676 yards rushing. He's the total opposite of a pocket passer.
Dont confuse "pocket passer" with having to make throws from the pocket. Theres nothing wrong with a QB who has the ability to scramble. But to be an NFL QB they absolutely HAVE to make throws from inside the pocket. Have to be able to move and avoid pressure inside the pocket. Cant rely on scrambling alone, it breaks down the structure of the offense.

Vick in 2010 stayed in the pocket and completed passes. He relied on his arm first and his legs second. Thats what RG3 is going to have to do. Scrambling plays are fluke plays, they cant be relied upon.


Vick runs because that's his game..Its not for fear of getting hit.

Its both. When Vick feels pressure he starts running around. There are plenty of times where he could hang tough in the pocket and complete passes, but instead of feels pressure and runs around.

Sure I'd say since offfenses are set up for pocket passes a QB is going to have to throw from the pocket at times.

Vick always relied on his arm first...Its just more often than not makes one read and then runs....sometimes he runs to throw though. In Philly he finnally got recievers who got open in a timely fashion making him look more efficient from the "pocket".

There are times when other QBs would hang in the pocket and complete the pass..but they don't run a 4.zap. Or aren't pinpoint accurate on the run. Just because he runs rather than looking to his 3rd read doesn't mean he's scared...just means his game isn't traditional.

???? your analysis of vick is *** backwards.

in 2010, the reason he got so much hype, is bc he stopped relying on his legs as much as he historically did prior. his "mvp season" lasted all but 8 games...

vick relies on his legs bc of the flaws he has as a pocket passer. even on plays where he isn't scrambling, he takes a massive drop back (in part to scan the field over the OL), and doesn't have the anticipation skills of other elite qbs to throw the ball to where the wr will end up facing tight coverage. thats why vick takes so many shots, he literally has to wait to see the throw to make it....

also, vick is one of the worst "get rid of the ball quickly" qb's, he almost always tries to extend a play, which almost always leads to a break down in the OL ability to sustain their blocks, which leads to Vick getting hit a ton.

VIck is an explosive, talented player...but there's a reason why a team he has led has never seriously contended for a championship, and its the same reason for why he's almost always banged up...he relies too much on his legs to make up for the flaws he has as a pocket passer...

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 12:42 PM
I agree that every offense is set up for pocket passes. I dissagree that its the only way that could work.
Well you disagree with every team in the NFL then, as well as every evaluator of talent. There is no fundamental way to make an effective offense without throwing from the pocket. And dont bring up Tebow, that offense barely scored points at all.


In 2010 I didn't see this Vick going through his reads hanging in the pocket player that you saw.
I did.


And again i think Michael Vick is highly effective and I don't believe he's a tradional passer. Vick is most effective when he IS a traditional passer.

Tommy_Ribs
04-19-2012, 12:42 PM
RG III is everything you want in a QB.

Smart, dedicated, great arm, great feet, a competitor, comes from a great family. His demeanor and Outlook actually remind me a lot of Peyton and Eli.

With the rule changes that have been happening in the NFL, I think he is going to do very well early on and only get better.

The Redskins gave up a lot to move to #2 to get him, but they will not regret it.

I can't say enough good things about RG III.

burier
04-19-2012, 12:43 PM
In 2010 Mike Vick had 100 attempts on the ground and registered his 676 yards rushing. He's the total opposite of a pocket passer.
Dont confuse "pocket passer" with having to make throws from the pocket. Theres nothing wrong with a QB who has the ability to scramble. But to be an NFL QB they absolutely HAVE to make throws from inside the pocket. Have to be able to move and avoid pressure inside the pocket. Cant rely on scrambling alone, it breaks down the structure of the offense.

Vick in 2010 stayed in the pocket and completed passes. He relied on his arm first and his legs second. Thats what RG3 is going to have to do. Scrambling plays are fluke plays, they cant be relied upon.


Vick runs because that's his game..Its not for fear of getting hit.

Its both. When Vick feels pressure he starts running around. There are plenty of times where he could hang tough in the pocket and complete passes, but instead of feels pressure and runs around.

Sure I'd say since offfenses are set up for pocket passes a QB is going to have to throw from the pocket at times.

Vick always relied on his arm first...Its just more often than not makes one read and then runs....sometimes he runs to throw though. In Philly he finnally got recievers who got open in a timely fashion making him look more efficient from the "pocket".

There are times when other QBs would hang in the pocket and complete the pass..but they don't run a 4.zap. Or aren't pinpoint accurate on the run. Just because he runs rather than looking to his 3rd read doesn't mean he's scared...just means his game isn't traditional.

???? your analysis of vick is *** backwards.

in 2010, the reason he got so much hype, is bc he stopped relying on his legs as much as he historically did prior. his "mvp season" lasted all but 8 games...

vick relies on his legs bc of the flaws he has as a pocket passer. even on plays where he isn't scrambling, he takes a massive drop back (in part to scan the field over the OL), and doesn't have the anticipation skills of other elite qbs to throw the ball to where the wr will end up facing tight coverage. thats why vick takes so many shots, he literally has to wait to see the throw to make it....

also, vick is one of the worst "get rid of the ball quickly" qb's, he almost always tries to extend a play, which almost always leads to a break down in the OL ability to sustain their blocks, which leads to Vick getting hit a ton.

VIck is an explosive, talented player...but there's a reason why a team he has led has never seriously contended for a championship, and its the same reason for why he's almost always banged up...he relies too much on his legs to make up for the flaws he has as a pocket passer...

actually..if you go back and look you'll see that he was the same old vick.

The whole pocket passer stuff was getting hyped by the same analysts who had spent years screaming about how Vick couldn't be successful unless he played from the pocket. He got out of jail Got into a decent offense with decent weapons and had a great year playing his same style of ball...Rather than the analysts saying..."Yeah we don't actually know what we're talking about" They started touting that Vick suddenly learned how to read defense and most fans ate it up.

Go check out the tape...Same old vick within a better system surrounded by better players.

slipknottin
04-19-2012, 12:47 PM
Go check out the tape...Same old vick within a better system surrounded by better players.

completely disagree. I watched Vick stay in the pocket and go through his reads. Something Atlanta Vick never did.

burier
04-19-2012, 12:56 PM
Go check out the tape...Same old vick within a better system surrounded by better players.

completely disagree. I watched Vick stay in the pocket and go through his reads. Something Atlanta Vick never did.

I'll agree that he may have stayed in the pocket more than he did in atlanta...but the whole thing was totally blown out of proportion. And again, alot of that can be attributed to the fact that he had guys actually getting open.

giantsfan420
04-19-2012, 01:19 PM
In 2010 Mike Vick had 100 attempts on the ground and registered his 676 yards rushing. He's the total opposite of a pocket passer.
Dont confuse "pocket passer" with having to make throws from the pocket. Theres nothing wrong with a QB who has the ability to scramble. But to be an NFL QB they absolutely HAVE to make throws from inside the pocket. Have to be able to move and avoid pressure inside the pocket. Cant rely on scrambling alone, it breaks down the structure of the offense.

Vick in 2010 stayed in the pocket and completed passes. He relied on his arm first and his legs second. Thats what RG3 is going to have to do. Scrambling plays are fluke plays, they cant be relied upon.


Vick runs because that's his game..Its not for fear of getting hit.

Its both. When Vick feels pressure he starts running around. There are plenty of times where he could hang tough in the pocket and complete passes, but instead of feels pressure and runs around.

Sure I'd say since offfenses are set up for pocket passes a QB is going to have to throw from the pocket at times.

Vick always relied on his arm first...Its just more often than not makes one read and then runs....sometimes he runs to throw though. In Philly he finnally got recievers who got open in a timely fashion making him look more efficient from the "pocket".

There are times when other QBs would hang in the pocket and complete the pass..but they don't run a 4.zap. Or aren't pinpoint accurate on the run. Just because he runs rather than looking to his 3rd read doesn't mean he's scared...just means his game isn't traditional.

???? your analysis of vick is *** backwards.

in 2010, the reason he got so much hype, is bc he stopped relying on his legs as much as he historically did prior. his "mvp season" lasted all but 8 games...

vick relies on his legs bc of the flaws he has as a pocket passer. even on plays where he isn't scrambling, he takes a massive drop back (in part to scan the field over the OL), and doesn't have the anticipation skills of other elite qbs to throw the ball to where the wr will end up facing tight coverage. thats why vick takes so many shots, he literally has to wait to see the throw to make it....

also, vick is one of the worst "get rid of the ball quickly" qb's, he almost always tries to extend a play, which almost always leads to a break down in the OL ability to sustain their blocks, which leads to Vick getting hit a ton.

VIck is an explosive, talented player...but there's a reason why a team he has led has never seriously contended for a championship, and its the same reason for why he's almost always banged up...he relies too much on his legs to make up for the flaws he has as a pocket passer...

actually..if you go back and look you'll see that he was the same old vick.

The whole pocket passer stuff was getting hyped by the same analysts who had spent years screaming about how Vick couldn't be successful unless he played from the pocket. He got out of jail Got into a decent offense with decent weapons and had a great year playing his same style of ball...Rather than the analysts saying..."Yeah we don't actually know what we're talking about" They started touting that Vick suddenly learned how to read defense and most fans ate it up.

Go check out the tape...Same old vick within a better system surrounded by better players.

the only thing ur right about is it was the same old vick.

and it was broken down by actual game tape, vick cannot read defenses the way elite qbs can, he does not have the anticipation needed to make the stick throws consistently....ur right that vick is not ur traditional qb tho. although we both get to that conclusion differently.

i 100% believe to be fact that vick relies on his legs more than his arm and vision. philly's offense actually caters to this with a lot of crossing routes and deep passes...he rarely will make the kind of throws through the kinda windows that eli will make.

but back to rg3, watching some film on him, one thing that jumps out at me is that due to the lack of serious competition and the system baylor runs, rg3 made the quick screen throw, the quick slant throw, and the go route throw almost exclusively...i was not impressed with the kinds of throws he was asked to make, baylor lived off the shotgun PA quick slant to wright, and that is as easy a throw u can make.
i believe griffin will struggle making those 12 yd comeback route throws, the back shoulder go-stop route throws, the deep in throws...

watch film on RG3 and literally notice how almost every throw is a simple 7 yd hitch, a simple wr quick screen throw, or a deep pass to a completely wide open wright (although he has made several excellent passes into tight coverage on the go route)...

then u factor into it that Baylor plays in a relatively weak conference against relatively weak competition, i am hesitant to believe rg3 is going to be this stand out nfl qb...he screams jason cambell to me, even tho i believe jason cambell had more film vs tough competition...

fltechpilot
04-19-2012, 01:36 PM
I hate that stupid nickname. A combination of his initials and his number, so clever. Why don't they call Rex Grossman RGVIII?

So basically, I have nothing important to add to this discussion.

Flip Empty
04-19-2012, 01:40 PM
I hate that stupid nickname. A combination of his initials and his number, so clever. Why don't they call Rex Grossman RGVIII?

So basically, I have nothing important to add to this discussion.

His name is actually Robert Griffin III. The nickname is just his initials.

Rex just gets called "****" haha

burier
04-19-2012, 01:43 PM
In 2010 Mike Vick had 100 attempts on the ground and registered his 676 yards rushing. He's the total opposite of a pocket passer.
Dont confuse "pocket passer" with having to make throws from the pocket. Theres nothing wrong with a QB who has the ability to scramble. But to be an NFL QB they absolutely HAVE to make throws from inside the pocket. Have to be able to move and avoid pressure inside the pocket. Cant rely on scrambling alone, it breaks down the structure of the offense.

Vick in 2010 stayed in the pocket and completed passes. He relied on his arm first and his legs second. Thats what RG3 is going to have to do. Scrambling plays are fluke plays, they cant be relied upon.


Vick runs because that's his game..Its not for fear of getting hit.

Its both. When Vick feels pressure he starts running around. There are plenty of times where he could hang tough in the pocket and complete passes, but instead of feels pressure and runs around.

Sure I'd say since offfenses are set up for pocket passes a QB is going to have to throw from the pocket at times.

Vick always relied on his arm first...Its just more often than not makes one read and then runs....sometimes he runs to throw though. In Philly he finnally got recievers who got open in a timely fashion making him look more efficient from the "pocket".

There are times when other QBs would hang in the pocket and complete the pass..but they don't run a 4.zap. Or aren't pinpoint accurate on the run. Just because he runs rather than looking to his 3rd read doesn't mean he's scared...just means his game isn't traditional.

???? your analysis of vick is *** backwards.

in 2010, the reason he got so much hype, is bc he stopped relying on his legs as much as he historically did prior. his "mvp season" lasted all but 8 games...

vick relies on his legs bc of the flaws he has as a pocket passer. even on plays where he isn't scrambling, he takes a massive drop back (in part to scan the field over the OL), and doesn't have the anticipation skills of other elite qbs to throw the ball to where the wr will end up facing tight coverage. thats why vick takes so many shots, he literally has to wait to see the throw to make it....

also, vick is one of the worst "get rid of the ball quickly" qb's, he almost always tries to extend a play, which almost always leads to a break down in the OL ability to sustain their blocks, which leads to Vick getting hit a ton.

VIck is an explosive, talented player...but there's a reason why a team he has led has never seriously contended for a championship, and its the same reason for why he's almost always banged up...he relies too much on his legs to make up for the flaws he has as a pocket passer...

actually..if you go back and look you'll see that he was the same old vick.

The whole pocket passer stuff was getting hyped by the same analysts who had spent years screaming about how Vick couldn't be successful unless he played from the pocket. He got out of jail Got into a decent offense with decent weapons and had a great year playing his same style of ball...Rather than the analysts saying..."Yeah we don't actually know what we're talking about" They started touting that Vick suddenly learned how to read defense and most fans ate it up.

Go check out the tape...Same old vick within a better system surrounded by better players.

the only thing ur right about is it was the same old vick.

and it was broken down by actual game tape, vick cannot read defenses the way elite qbs can, he does not have the anticipation needed to make the stick throws consistently....ur right that vick is not ur traditional qb tho. although we both get to that conclusion differently.

i 100% believe to be fact that vick relies on his legs more than his arm and vision. philly's offense actually caters to this with a lot of crossing routes and deep passes...he rarely will make the kind of throws through the kinda windows that eli will make.

but back to rg3, watching some film on him, one thing that jumps out at me is that due to the lack of serious competition and the system baylor runs, rg3 made the quick screen throw, the quick slant throw, and the go route throw almost exclusively...i was not impressed with the kinds of throws he was asked to make, baylor lived off the shotgun PA quick slant to wright, and that is as easy a throw u can make.
i believe griffin will struggle making those 12 yd comeback route throws, the back shoulder go-stop route throws, the deep in throws...

watch film on RG3 and literally notice how almost every throw is a simple 7 yd hitch, a simple wr quick screen throw, or a deep pass to a completely wide open wright (although he has made several excellent passes into tight coverage on the go route)...

then u factor into it that Baylor plays in a relatively weak conference against relatively weak competition, i am hesitant to believe rg3 is going to be this stand out nfl qb...he screams jason cambell to me, even tho i believe jason cambell had more film vs tough competition...

One thing Id guard against is assuming someone can't do something just because he wasn't asked to do it.

The other thing I'd guard against is juding the player like he's a standard pocket passer.

When's the last time Vick hit a deep comeback? He's got the arm strength and the accuracy but like you said he doesn't have the anticipation. You can knock him for not making those throws but so far he hasn't had to.

With RG3 i think its a similar situation where he's such an athlete that he's going to get away with not having the total arsenal together.

The fact that he went into the combine and performed like he did has me concerned.

As a rule I don't really care about the combine so much unless...someone comes and blows the doors off it because that shows an elite competive edge.

I'm not saying the kid won't have the typical rough rookie season...but at some point RG3 is going to be a major problem guaranteed.

G-Man67
04-19-2012, 02:40 PM
the Skins just can't seem to get out of their own way (despite beating up on us twice last year)</P>


and the natural thing is to try to say that RG III will be like a current or former NFL QB</P>


and he is not really in the mold of any of the Elite QBs ... he can move like Rodgers, but no way do i think he can throw as accurately on the run as Aaron ... he's certainly not in that classic pocket passer category like Brady, Peyton, Eli, etc. because he isn't as tall ... despite his 40 times ... he is just not the runner that Vick is ... Vick is fast, but also very elusive ... Brees has shown that you can be a shorter pocket passer and be successful if you learn how to make those subtle moves in the pocket to find passing lanes, but he's crafted that ability over the years at the NFL level</P>


i could be dead wrong, but i dont see him being a great NFL QB ... but im sure the Skins fans are excitedand they should be ... he's def. a talent</P>

ShakeNBake
04-19-2012, 04:44 PM
If the Redskins don't get some help on their offensive line, especially their right side then RG3 is going to be in for a rough season. The guy has the tools to succeed, so it all depends on the redskins in getting the right pieces.

Bohemian
04-19-2012, 05:12 PM
RG3 seems to be a great prospect, so if the team surrounds him with great talent, he should definitely have a good career. It is always hard to tell with QBs, because they are play a position that is the whole focus of the team, so when they don't add up it becomes evident quite early. All in all, he looks like a great choice for the skins next week.