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jints1964
04-21-2012, 11:40 AM
Need help here. Ive seen players mentioned from TEs to OLs to DLs to LBs and even more secondary help. Who do you think our first and second round picks may be. I guess someone may see a real focus but would like a real consensus. I know Reese and his " war room " crew will make the calls but some guys out there can read their minds better than I can.Oponions anyone

nygfan0816
04-21-2012, 04:32 PM
really hoping for fleener in the 1st. i dont see san fran taking fleener like some people do. they have davis and walker at TE and moss, manningham, and crabtree at WR, there wouldnt be room for him. denver is also another team who could have interest, but i think they go defense. if fleener is there at 32, tkae him.

Spizi
04-22-2012, 07:37 AM
really hoping for fleener in the 1st. i dont see san fran taking fleener like some people do. they have davis and walker at TE and moss, manningham, and crabtree at WR, there wouldnt be room for him. denver is also another team who could have interest, but i think they go defense. if fleener is there at 32, tkae him.

I just don't see the point of a receiver/te in the first. If you have Nicks and Cruz on the outside anyone will look like a beast in the middle. Just draft guys that are athletes and Eli will make them superstars. Look what he did with freaking Jake Ballard!!

rainierjef
04-22-2012, 07:45 AM
really hoping for fleener in the 1st. i dont see san fran taking fleener like some people do. they have davis and walker at TE and moss, manningham, and crabtree at WR, there wouldnt be room for him. denver is also another team who could have interest, but i think they go defense. if fleener is there at 32, tkae him.

I just don't see the point of a receiver/te in the first. If you have Nicks and Cruz on the outside anyone will look like a beast in the middle. Just draft guys that are athletes and Eli will make them superstars. Look what he did with freaking Jake Ballard!!

why give a sports car ****ty oil when you can afford the premium.
it is completely asinine to say give eli whatever we can he will make them good, we know he will but why not give him better so he can make them great.
the fact that we only have nicks and cruz is the reason why we need another threat. go back to the super bowl if manningham didn't make that catch we lose the game and your all calling for his head or saying we definitely need to draft another WR early. you cannot...cannot just say we have two receivers were fine, they will get double coverage and if no one can get open eli gets sacked looking for options.

here's the point of a TE/WR early in the draft even if its at 32. we have an elite QB who can make plays with not so great talent ( beckum / ballard ) give him the tools to out score teams instead of coming back in the 4th gain a size-able lead in the first and let our defense as it stands now Tee off on opposing offenses cause they're now playing catch up.

defense wins championships... only cause the offense puts the team ahead for them to pin their ears back. we need balance and the offense is slightly unbalanced as it stands now.

FFS

Spizi
04-22-2012, 08:27 AM
really hoping for fleener in the 1st. i dont see san fran taking fleener like some people do. they have davis and walker at TE and moss, manningham, and crabtree at WR, there wouldnt be room for him. denver is also another team who could have interest, but i think they go defense. if fleener is there at 32, tkae him.

I just don't see the point of a receiver/te in the first. If you have Nicks and Cruz on the outside anyone will look like a beast in the middle. Just draft guys that are athletes and Eli will make them superstars. Look what he did with freaking Jake Ballard!!

why give a sports car ****ty oil when you can afford the premium.
it is completely asinine to say give eli whatever we can he will make them good, we know he will but why not give him better so he can make them great.
the fact that we only have nicks and cruz is the reason why we need another threat. go back to the super bowl if manningham didn't make that catch we lose the game and your all calling for his head or saying we definitely need to draft another WR early. you cannot...cannot just say we have two receivers were fine, they will get double coverage and if no one can get open eli gets sacked looking for options.

here's the point of a TE/WR early in the draft even if its at 32. we have an elite QB who can make plays with not so great talent ( beckum / ballard ) give him the tools to out score teams instead of coming back in the 4th gain a size-able lead in the first and let our defense as it stands now Tee off on opposing offenses cause they're now playing catch up.

defense wins championships... only cause the offense puts the team ahead for them to pin their ears back. we need balance and the offense is slightly unbalanced as it stands now.

FFS


You're not understanding my point... There is no need to waste a high pick on a WR or TE because we can get an athlete at those positions in the later rounds. Just imagine that Jake Ballard ran a 4.6 instead of a 5.0. Ballard, a guy with no real natural talent, would have went from an average TE to dominant playmaker in our offense last year. That is why I'm saying we should take a guy like Egnew in the third or Streeter in the 4th instead of say Fleener or Hill in the first.

Shockeystays08
04-22-2012, 10:55 AM
really hoping for fleener in the 1st. i dont see san fran taking fleener like some people do. they have davis and walker at TE and moss, manningham, and crabtree at WR, there wouldnt be room for him. denver is also another team who could have interest, but i think they go defense. if fleener is there at 32, tkae him.

I just don't see the point of a receiver/te in the first. If you have Nicks and Cruz on the outside anyone will look like a beast in the
middle. Just draft guys that are athletes and Eli will make them
superstars. Look what he did with freaking Jake Ballard!!


why give a sports car ****ty oil when you can afford the
premium.
it is completely asinine to say give eli whatever we
can he will make them good, we know he will but why not give
him better so he can make them great.
the fact that we only
have nicks and cruz is the reason why we need another threat.
go back to the super bowl if manningham didn't make that catch
we lose the game and your all calling for his head or saying we
definitely need to draft another WR early. you cannot...cannot
just say we have two receivers were fine, they will get double
coverage and if no one can get open eli gets sacked looking for
options.

here's the point of a TE/WR early in the draft
even if its at 32. we have an elite QB who can make plays with
not so great talent ( beckum / ballard ) give him the tools to out
score teams instead of coming back in the 4th gain a size-able
lead in the first and let our defense as it stands now Tee off on
opposing offenses cause they're now playing catch up.


defense wins championships... only cause the offense puts
the team ahead for them to pin their ears back. we need balance
and the offense is slightly unbalanced as it stands now.


FFS



I get your point and agree with it. We don't need to spend a #1 on a WR .Jernigan is the planned number 3. We need depth not an immediate starter. Our biggest FA acquisition is a TE, we don't go #1 there either. There are TE's that fit our needs with later picks. We need a RB, Some OL and DL help and a safety. A stud LB in one would be ok.

You're not understanding my point... There is no need to waste a high pick on a WR or TE because we can get an athlete at those positions in the later rounds. Just imagine that Jake Ballard ran a 4.6 instead of a 5.0. Ballard, a guy with no real natural talent, would have went from an average TE to dominant playmaker in our offense last year. That is why I'm saying we should take a guy like Egnew in the third or Streeter in the 4th instead of say Fleener or Hill in the first.

Shockeystays08
04-22-2012, 11:01 AM
Man I posted that in the wrong spot again! Geez! Anyway I get your point Spizi

slipknottin
04-22-2012, 11:25 AM
You're not understanding my point... There is no need to waste a high pick on a WR or TE because we can get an athlete at those positions in the later rounds.

Athletes dont contribute their rookie year...

And Ballard has plenty of natural talent. Good hands, understands how to get open, finds holes in zone defenses. All things an "athlete" does not do.

lawl
04-22-2012, 11:33 AM
really hoping for fleener in the 1st. i dont see san fran taking fleener like some people do. they have davis and walker at TE and moss, manningham, and crabtree at WR, there wouldnt be room for him. denver is also another team who could have interest, but i think they go defense. if fleener is there at 32, tkae him.

I just don't see the point of a receiver/te in the first. If you have Nicks and Cruz on the outside anyone will look like a beast in the middle. Just draft guys that are athletes and Eli will make them superstars. Look what he did with freaking Jake Ballard!!

why give a sports car ****ty oil when you can afford the premium.
it is completely asinine to say give eli whatever we can he will make them good, we know he will but why not give him better so he can make them great.
the fact that we only have nicks and cruz is the reason why we need another threat. go back to the super bowl if manningham didn't make that catch we lose the game and your all calling for his head or saying we definitely need to draft another WR early. you cannot...cannot just say we have two receivers were fine, they will get double coverage and if no one can get open eli gets sacked looking for options.

here's the point of a TE/WR early in the draft even if its at 32. we have an elite QB who can make plays with not so great talent ( beckum / ballard ) give him the tools to out score teams instead of coming back in the 4th gain a size-able lead in the first and let our defense as it stands now Tee off on opposing offenses cause they're now playing catch up.

defense wins championships... only cause the offense puts the team ahead for them to pin their ears back. we need balance and the offense is slightly unbalanced as it stands now.

FFS


You're not understanding my point... There is no need to waste a high pick on a WR or TE because we can get an athlete at those positions in the later rounds. Just imagine that Jake Ballard ran a 4.6 instead of a 5.0. Ballard, a guy with no real natural talent, would have went from an average TE to dominant playmaker in our offense last year. That is why I'm saying we should take a guy like Egnew in the third or Streeter in the 4th instead of say Fleener or Hill in the first.

You mean like Travis beckum?

nevada11
04-22-2012, 11:40 AM
You're not understanding my point... There is no need to waste a high pick on a WR or TE because we can get an athlete at those positions in the later rounds.

Athletes dont contribute their rookie year...

And Ballard has plenty of natural talent. Good hands, understands how to get open, finds holes in zone defenses. All things an "athlete" does not do.

i wouldnt say ballard has good hands. hes had some drops

Redeyejedi
04-22-2012, 11:51 AM
really hoping for fleener in the 1st. i dont see san fran taking fleener like some people do. they have davis and walker at TE and moss, manningham, and crabtree at WR, there wouldnt be room for him. denver is also another team who could have interest, but i think they go defense. if fleener is there at 32, tkae him.

I just don't see the point of a receiver/te in the first. If you have Nicks and Cruz on the outside anyone will look like a beast in the middle. Just draft guys that are athletes and Eli will make them superstars. Look what he did with freaking Jake Ballard!!

why give a sports car ****ty oil when you can afford the premium.
it is completely asinine to say give eli whatever we can he will make them good, we know he will but why not give him better so he can make them great.
the fact that we only have nicks and cruz is the reason why we need another threat. go back to the super bowl if manningham didn't make that catch we lose the game and your all calling for his head or saying we definitely need to draft another WR early. you cannot...cannot just say we have two receivers were fine, they will get double coverage and if no one can get open eli gets sacked looking for options.

here's the point of a TE/WR early in the draft even if its at 32. we have an elite QB who can make plays with not so great talent ( beckum / ballard ) give him the tools to out score teams instead of coming back in the 4th gain a size-able lead in the first and let our defense as it stands now Tee off on opposing offenses cause they're now playing catch up.

defense wins championships... only cause the offense puts the team ahead for them to pin their ears back. we need balance and the offense is slightly unbalanced as it stands now.

FFS
The Packers had Jordy Nelson,Greg jennings,Donald Driver,James Jones ,Jerimichael Finley and they still took Randall Cobb in the second round. Are division is loaded with offensive talent with the Cowboys and Eagles. If the Giants want to win they have to keep the pedal to the floor on offense

Redeyejedi
04-22-2012, 11:55 AM
You're not understanding my point... There is no need to waste a high pick on a WR or TE because we can get an athlete at those positions in the later rounds.

Athletes dont contribute their rookie year...

And Ballard has plenty of natural talent. Good hands, understands how to get open, finds holes in zone defenses. All things an "athlete" does not do.He just doesnt threaten the seam like Coby Fleener does

slipknottin
04-22-2012, 12:10 PM
i wouldnt say ballard has good hands. hes had some drops

I dont neccessarily attribute drops to bad hands. Ballard has made some really tough grabs which I think is more meaningful. Drops I believe a lot of the time have more to do with concentration and looking to get upfield or not get hit before making the catch

Spizi
04-22-2012, 01:15 PM
You're not understanding my point... There is no need to waste a high pick on a WR or TE because we can get an athlete at those positions in the later rounds.

Athletes dont contribute their rookie year...

And Ballard has plenty of natural talent. Good hands, understands how to get open, finds holes in zone defenses. All things an "athlete" does not do.

I'm not saying like a dumbass track star who doesn't know how to play football. I'm talking about a decent football player who is an elite athlete. A guy like that could definitely contribute as a rookie.

Spizi
04-22-2012, 01:18 PM
really hoping for fleener in the 1st. i dont see san fran taking fleener like some people do. they have davis and walker at TE and moss, manningham, and crabtree at WR, there wouldnt be room for him. denver is also another team who could have interest, but i think they go defense. if fleener is there at 32, tkae him.

I just don't see the point of a receiver/te in the first. If you have Nicks and Cruz on the outside anyone will look like a beast in the middle. Just draft guys that are athletes and Eli will make them superstars. Look what he did with freaking Jake Ballard!!

why give a sports car ****ty oil when you can afford the premium.
it is completely asinine to say give eli whatever we can he will make them good, we know he will but why not give him better so he can make them great.
the fact that we only have nicks and cruz is the reason why we need another threat. go back to the super bowl if manningham didn't make that catch we lose the game and your all calling for his head or saying we definitely need to draft another WR early. you cannot...cannot just say we have two receivers were fine, they will get double coverage and if no one can get open eli gets sacked looking for options.

here's the point of a TE/WR early in the draft even if its at 32. we have an elite QB who can make plays with not so great talent ( beckum / ballard ) give him the tools to out score teams instead of coming back in the 4th gain a size-able lead in the first and let our defense as it stands now Tee off on opposing offenses cause they're now playing catch up.

defense wins championships... only cause the offense puts the team ahead for them to pin their ears back. we need balance and the offense is slightly unbalanced as it stands now.

FFS


You're not understanding my point... There is no need to waste a high pick on a WR or TE because we can get an athlete at those positions in the later rounds. Just imagine that Jake Ballard ran a 4.6 instead of a 5.0. Ballard, a guy with no real natural talent, would have went from an average TE to dominant playmaker in our offense last year. That is why I'm saying we should take a guy like Egnew in the third or Streeter in the 4th instead of say Fleener or Hill in the first.

You mean like Travis beckum?

No Travis Beckum is not a TE. Honestly I don't know why the Giants drafted him.

slipknottin
04-22-2012, 02:02 PM
I'm not saying like a dumbass track star who doesn't know how to play football. I'm talking about a decent football player who is an elite athlete. A guy like that could definitely contribute as a rookie.

Athletes who know how to play football get taken in the first round...

Spizi
04-22-2012, 02:23 PM
I'm not saying like a dumbass track star who doesn't know how to play football. I'm talking about a decent football player who is an elite athlete. A guy like that could definitely contribute as a rookie.

Athletes who know how to play football get taken in the first round...

I didn't say an athlete who knows how to play football. I said a decent football player who is an athlete. There are many WRs who are great athletes that can be had in rounds 3-4.

slipknottin
04-22-2012, 03:42 PM
I didn't say an athlete who knows how to play football. I said a decent football player who is an athlete. There are many WRs who are great athletes that can be had in rounds 3-4.

I really dont understand what you are trying to say.

What exactly is a decent football player who is an athlete? Are we talking about a guy like Streeter?

You think he can step right in and pick up a complicated option offense and make a big contribution his rookie year?

Because I strongly disagree with that, I dont think anyone coming from a non-pro style offense will contribute much at all their rookie year.

Spizi
04-22-2012, 04:51 PM
well my orginal argument was to not wast a pick on a TE or WR in the first 2 rounds. All I'm saying is that if we get a really good athlete at TE in the middle rounds he could be much better than Ballard on pure athleticism alone. If we had to go WR or TE in round 1 I would go WR.

slipknottin
04-22-2012, 04:58 PM
All I'm saying is that if we get a really good athlete at TE in the middle rounds he could be much better than Ballard on pure athleticism alone.

I completely disagree. Beckum is probably the best athlete the giants have had at TE since Shockey, how has he done? Theres far more that goes into being a good receiver than having good measurables at the combine

And if we are talking about Stephen Hill, he is a much better athlete than football player.

NorwoodBlue
04-22-2012, 05:08 PM
I care how they play in pads, on Sunday; not about a bunch of scores they get on combine workouts. Athletes "see their stock rise" at the combines, while a lot of good football players "have a bad combine". I want to see a guy drafted early who's played against some of the best in the NCAA and shined against them, on the field. I think there's some good DT who fit that bill that should still be there. If a really good player drops to us, like Fleener, then I think you have to take him. I'm sure Jerry Reese will keep an eye out for unexpected guys dropping down; that's how we got Prince; but if they're not there, they know who they want already. My bet is DT Still.

Redeyejedi
04-22-2012, 05:09 PM
I didn't say an athlete who knows how to play football. I said a decent football player who is an athlete. There are many WRs who are great athletes that can be had in rounds 3-4.

I really dont understand what you are trying to say.

What exactly is a decent football player who is an athlete? Are we talking about a guy like Streeter?

You think he can step right in and pick up a complicated option offense and make a big contribution his rookie year?

Because I strongly disagree with that, I dont think anyone coming from a non-pro style offense will contribute much at all their rookie year.I dont like taking receivers that are bad route runners like Streeter

rainierjef
04-22-2012, 05:39 PM
well my orginal argument was to not wast a pick on a TE or WR in the first 2 rounds. All I'm saying is that if we get a really good athlete at TE in the middle rounds he could be much better than Ballard on pure athleticism alone. If we had to go WR or TE in round 1 I would go WR.

but why not? cause we don't value or use tight ends?

<blockquote>under eli manning jeremy shockey had 3 600+ yrd seasons and a 800+ yrd season with 23 TD's total
Kevin boss had 2 500+ yrd season a 400 yrd season and 100 yards his rookie year when we won the superbowl with 18 TD's

</blockquote>all i'm saying is getting a guy like fleener can be the second coming of a jeremy shockey in this offense minus him *****ing out eli for the ball, and take the Eli we have now who is way more mature and seasoned than the eli in 2004-2006; this offense can become a prolific high scoring offense.

a really good athlete is a travis beckum, is a martellus bennet those guys are athletes. you want a balance of athleticism and technique with a brain, to come in and understand the offenses and read defenses, beckum had a hard time understanding the offense if i'm not mistaken, and bennett in two tight-end ran system couldn't find the holes in the defense or adjust. sure he played behind an all-pro and maybe tony romo is that simple of a QB to not want to looking for anything outside of jason witten but i'm pretty sure jason witten got Double covered most of the time, chipped off the line, bumped within the five, and he still couldn't take advantage of not being the promary in the defenses eyes...with all that athleticisim?
the verdict is still out on him and i'm am putting extreme trust in reese on that one.
if we go WR in the first round then i hope its ruben randle he can plaay all three positions in my eyes, but if Fleener is there that's no brainer bro.
he threatens the seams and the middle,
he takes the safety away from either nicks or cruz,
coach pope teaches him better blocking techniques we can run from either side with him and bennett blocking. 2 TE sets
the play action becomes more dimensional
the running game gets better on the outside. defenses be come more honest, little stacking the box ****.

i think the reason why people don't like fleener in the first is cause he's not a eye popping standout like gronokowsi, graham, finely, davis. i think slip said it that picking at 32 is like picking in the second round? if you feel that fleener is not a first round guy just remember its like an early 2nd round pick.