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DragonSoul
04-21-2012, 12:20 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/38331/weekend-mailbag-redskins-running-backs

Joseph Kony from Antarctica asks whether I share his belief that New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning's production will drop now that his big brother is back in the league this year. Joseph believes that "without the pressure of having to compete with his brother, Eli was able to have his best statistical year and win the SB... again."

DG: I think that's a reach, Joseph. Eli Manning's career arc is one of steady improvement year over year, with the one exception being the interception total from 2010. He's an excellent player in his own right, obviously mentally tough enough that no one should still be questioning the way in which he handles the fact that his big brother operates in the same profession. I would have thought the second Super Bowl ring would have eliminated questions about Eli and Peyton's shadow. But your question reinforces my sad theory that people are always going to believe what they want to believe, even in the face of evidence to the contrary.

THE_New_York_Giants
04-21-2012, 12:26 PM
Joseph Kony from Antarctica asks whether I share his belief that New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning's production will drop now that his big brother is back in the league this year. Joseph believes that "without the pressure of having to compete with his brother, Eli was able to have his best statistical year and win the SB... again."

DG: I think that's a reach, Joseph. Eli Manning's career arc is one of steady improvement year over year, with the one exception being the interception total from 2010. He's an excellent player in his own right, obviously mentally tough enough that no one should still be questioning the way in which he handles the fact that his big brother operates in the same profession. I would have thought the second Super Bowl ring would have eliminated questions about Eli and Peyton's shadow. But your question reinforces my sad theory that people are always going to believe what they want to believe, even in the face of evidence to the contrary.
Are you on acid right now? I mean I'm still tripped out from 4/20, but I was lost at the third sentence. I thought it was funny.

EDIT
Nevermind I found the original source and it makes sense now.

Giants10Joe
04-21-2012, 12:47 PM
"Joseph Kony from Antarctica"? Lol

Flip Empty
04-21-2012, 01:04 PM
I actually think it'll be reversed this year. Eli's now in the driver's seat.

If competing with Eli's title count wasn't bad enough, Peyton also has to live up to Tim Tebow. He simply must get the Broncos to the divisional round of the playoffs to avoid being questioned. I don't think the fact he's coming back from a career-threatening injury will fly as an excuse to the Tebow Church

DragonSoul
04-21-2012, 01:13 PM
Joseph Kony from Antarctica asks whether I share his belief that New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning's production will drop now that his big brother is back in the league this year. Joseph believes that "without the pressure of having to compete with his brother, Eli was able to have his best statistical year and win the SB... again."

DG: I think that's a reach, Joseph. Eli Manning's career arc is one of steady improvement year over year, with the one exception being the interception total from 2010. He's an excellent player in his own right, obviously mentally tough enough that no one should still be questioning the way in which he handles the fact that his big brother operates in the same profession. I would have thought the second Super Bowl ring would have eliminated questions about Eli and Peyton's shadow. But your question reinforces my sad theory that people are always going to believe what they want to believe, even in the face of evidence to the contrary.
Are you on acid right now? I mean I'm still tripped out from 4/20, but I was lost at the third sentence. I thought it was funny.

EDIT
Nevermind I found the original source and it makes sense now.perfect example as to why you shouldn't be on the herb lol

Toadofsteel
04-21-2012, 04:43 PM
I actually think it'll be reversed this year. Eli's now in the driver's seat.

If competing with Eli's title count wasn't bad enough, Peyton also has to live up to Tim Tebow. He simply must get the Broncos to the divisional round of the playoffs to avoid being questioned. I don't think the fact he's coming back from a career-threatening injury will fly as an excuse to the Tebow Church

This. I'd say that if the broncos don't make it to the playoffs, rumors will fly about Peyton being a washed-out has-been.

That said, it won't make the media hatred of Eli go away. The media abhors a normal person, someone who won't play to their camera whims... Most of the time they just ignore said normal people and focus on the "personalities". But you can't ignore the SB MVP, so it just chafes at the media, hence all the Eli hate. That's how you get the idea that "Matt Ryan is a better QB than Eli"...

DragonSoul
04-21-2012, 05:23 PM
Getting to the playoffs won't show how Peyton is. What will is his play throughout the season. That will be obvious to all if he is healthy once again and if he can play.

I think part of the reason people dislike/hate Eli is still based partly on the draft day trade.

Eventually it turned around for Elway, so it can do the same for Eli. Seems as some have changed/started to change their opinion of Eli now. Sad it only had to take 2 SB Wins, winning drives and 2 MVPs to get them their.

Which is really sad that you have to be that blind not too see what Eli had. At that point you are starting to change your mind so you do not look like an idiot to the national audience.

slipknottin
04-21-2012, 06:42 PM
Peyton also has to live up to Tim Tebow.

I think the first time Peyton completes more than 21 passes in a game he has passed Tebow.

miked1958
04-21-2012, 07:32 PM
He will have a better season then last year

miked1958
04-21-2012, 07:35 PM
He will be on fire this season. And break a lot of records. Especially if he doesn't have a ton of guys dropping and tipping balls all year. Imagine what kind of numbers he would of had if they caught all the dropped balls and tips.. Less INTs to.

Drez
04-21-2012, 08:10 PM
Peyton also has to live up to Tim Tebow.

I think the first time Peyton completes more than 21 passes in a game he has passed Tebow.
Hell, the first time Peyton attempts 21 passes, he'd pass Tebow, lol.

Flip Empty
04-21-2012, 08:18 PM
Peyton also has to live up to Tim Tebow.

I think the first time Peyton completes more than 21 passes in a game he has passed Tebow.
Peyton could throw for 10000 yards and 50 touchdowns, but if the Broncos don't make the playoffs there'll be criticism from the Tebow faithful. If he chokes in the fourth quarter there'll also be noise.

slipknottin
04-21-2012, 08:24 PM
Peyton could throw for 10000 yards and 50 touchdowns, but if the Broncos don't make the playoffs there'll be criticism from the Tebow faithful. If he chokes in the fourth quarter there'll also be noise.

There will be criticism from the pro-tebow crowd even if Peyton wins the SB. Tebow fans are not rational.

DragonSoul
04-21-2012, 09:36 PM
Peyton could throw for 10000 yards and 50 touchdowns, but if the Broncos don't make the playoffs there'll be criticism from the Tebow faithful. If he chokes in the fourth quarter there'll also be noise.

There will be criticism from the pro-tebow crowd even if Peyton wins the SB. Tebow fans are not rational.Sounds like anti-Eli guys here lol - small world

FBomb
04-22-2012, 04:09 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/38331/weekend-mailbag-redskins-running-backs Joseph Kony from Antarctica asks whether I share his belief that New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning's production will drop now that his big brother is back in the league this year. Joseph believes that "without the pressure of having to compete with his brother, Eli was able to have his best statistical year and win the SB... again." DG: I think that's a reach, Joseph. Eli Manning's career arc is one of steady improvement year over year, with the one exception being the interception total from 2010. He's an excellent player in his own right, obviously mentally tough enough that no one should still be questioning the way in which he handles the fact that his big brother operates in the same profession. I would have thought the second Super Bowl ring would have eliminated questions about Eli and Peyton's shadow. But your question reinforces my sad theory that people are always going to believe what they want to believe, even in the face of evidence to the contrary.</P>


</P>


At least that idot got owned.</P>

FBomb
04-22-2012, 04:15 PM
"Joseph Kony from Antarctica"? Lol
</P>


lol...his brain is frozen.</P>

B&RWarrior
04-22-2012, 06:41 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </P>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </P>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</P>


</P>

G-Man67
04-23-2012, 01:36 PM
yes, he will absolutely suk now that Peyton is back</P>


i know this is pure silliness, but did he ever suk when Peyton was playing?</P>


maybein his rookie season, but don't expect Luck to be 11-5 this year</P>


thefollowing year we made the playoffs, 2007 we win the Super Bowl, and for those "it's all about the regular season" peeps, he went 12-4 in 2008</P>


10-6 in 2010 (yes, we missed the playoffs, but that was more on the STs and the D giving that Philly game away)</P>

midnite_nj
04-23-2012, 02:00 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </p>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </p>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</p>


</p>Plus one .

sharick88
04-23-2012, 02:13 PM
"Joseph Kony from Antarctica"? Lol

That's what I said. The Giants have haters on all 7 continents. LOL.

G-Man67
04-23-2012, 02:26 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </P>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </P>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</P>


</P>


</P>


yeah ummm nobody is saying he is the greatest of all time, but a thread that says will Eli suk this year ... please ... that would be almost like saying will Brady suk this year ... sure it could happen, but it would be a long shot</P>

jax5338
04-23-2012, 03:06 PM
"Joseph Kony from Antarctica"? Lol

That's what I said. The Giants have haters on all 7 continents. LOL.

fake name, fake location. wasnt joseph kony the subject of that huge youtube video about a month or two back. the african militant who abducts kids? didnt know he was a redskins fan.

Drez
04-23-2012, 03:09 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </p>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </p>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</p>


</p>
If you think this was the first year that Eli hasn't had a running game, then you haven't watched Giants football since '09.

FBomb
04-23-2012, 03:42 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </P>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </P>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</P>


</P>


</P>


Who said Eli was the greatest in THIS thread? Looks to me like the arguement is "Does Eli suck, or not". </P>

B&RWarrior
04-23-2012, 04:22 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </P>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </P>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</P>


</P>



If you think this was the first year that Eli hasn't had a running game, then you haven't watched Giants football since '09.
</P>


We had the 6th best rushing offense in 2010.</P>

Drez
04-23-2012, 04:35 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </p>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </p>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</p>


</p>



If you think this was the first year that Eli hasn't had a running game, then you haven't watched Giants football since '09.
</p>


We had the 6th best rushing offense in 2010.</p>
The yards are irrelevant. We did not have a good running game. How many times did AB have to break or shake a tackler within 2 yards of the LoS before breaking a decent run. We had plenty of games where the yd totals were good, but it was the result of a few big run interspersed with a bunch of short gains. We had a highly inconsistent running game, not a good one. And an inconsistent one does not spell a good running game to me.

EliTE
04-23-2012, 05:10 PM
when did eli suck? ever since 07 and the superbowl mvp, he's been solid every year. 2010 he had all those picks but a lot of them were due to tipped passes and guys running the wrong routes. people forget how injury riddled our receivers were that year. we had guys signed off the street catching balls because so many guys got hurt.

B&RWarrior
04-23-2012, 06:08 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled.* I think Eli*has improved year over year* since he came into the league.* I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship.* More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance.* </p>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the best*QB ever or even better than his brother.* It does make*him*"one of the best".* </p>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure.* So, I doubt if there was any sibling*rivalry that weighed in on his performamce.* Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.*The Peyton injury was irrelevant.*</p>


*</p>



If you think this was the first year that Eli hasn't had a running game, then you haven't watched Giants football since '09.
</p>


We had the 6th best rushing offense in 2010.</p>
The yards are irrelevant. We did not have a good running game. How many times did AB have to break or shake a tackler within 2 yards of the LoS before breaking a decent run. We had plenty of games where the yd totals were good, but it was the result of a few big run interspersed with a bunch of short gains. We had a highly inconsistent running game, not a good one. And an inconsistent one does not spell a good running game to me.


Huh? How can the rushing yards be irrelevant when accounting for the running game?

Sometimes it's just better to admit your wrong rather then defend an assertion based on nothing.

chasjay
04-23-2012, 06:23 PM
<font color="#FF0000">There is a presidential election this year. Will the distraction of presidential and vice-presidential debates, along with the actual casting of votes and tallying results disturb Eli's ability to concentrate? Will Eli's level of performance sink to the "suck" level of political discourse in this country? Not predicting here, just sayin'....</font>

Drez
04-23-2012, 06:25 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </p>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </p>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</p>


</p>



If you think this was the first year that Eli hasn't had a running game, then you haven't watched Giants football since '09.
</p>


We had the 6th best rushing offense in 2010.</p>
The yards are irrelevant. We did not have a good running game. How many times did AB have to break or shake a tackler within 2 yards of the LoS before breaking a decent run. We had plenty of games where the yd totals were good, but it was the result of a few big run interspersed with a bunch of short gains. We had a highly inconsistent running game, not a good one. And an inconsistent one does not spell a good running game to me.


Huh? How can the rushing yards be irrelevant when accounting for the running game?

Sometimes it's just better to admit your wrong rather then defend an assertion based on nothing.
But, the thing is... I'm not wrong. Our running game struggled in '10. The yards obfuscate that fact. Just looking at the yards, you can say that we were top 10 in the NFL in rushing, but by actually looking at the game you'd see that we were very inconsistent and struggled.

Just because Bradshaw was able to pop a couple big runs a game in '10 that upped the yardage total doesn't mean that we were a good running team. In fact, you can say that the biggest difference between our running game last season and in '10 was the fact that Bradshaw wasn't able to do that.

You can go ahead thinking that our running game was good in '10 if you want, but it does nothing to change the fact that it wasn't.

B&RWarrior
04-23-2012, 06:51 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </P>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </P>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</P>


</P>



If you think this was the first year that Eli hasn't had a running game, then you haven't watched Giants football since '09.
</P>


We had the 6th best rushing offense in 2010.</P>



The yards are irrelevant. We did not have a good running game. How many times did AB have to break or shake a tackler within 2 yards of the LoS before breaking a decent run. We had plenty of games where the yd totals were good, but it was the result of a few big run interspersed with a bunch of short gains. We had a highly inconsistent running game, not a good one. And an inconsistent one does not spell a good running game to me.
Huh? How can the rushing yards be irrelevant when accounting for the running game? Sometimes it's just better to admit your wrong rather then defend an assertion based on nothing.
But, the thing is... I'm not wrong. Our running game struggled in '10. The yards obfuscate that fact. Just looking at the yards, you can say that we were top 10 in the NFL in rushing, but by actually looking at the game you'd see that we were very inconsistent and struggled.

Just because Bradshaw was able to pop a couple big runs a game in '10 that upped the yardage total doesn't mean that we were a good running team. In fact, you can say that the biggest difference between our running game last season and in '10 was the fact that Bradshaw wasn't able to do that.

You can go ahead thinking that our running game was good in '10 if you want, but it does nothing to change the fact that it wasn't.
</P>


No looking at the games you would see that we rushed for over 100 yards in 13 of 16 games. You would've seen Bradhshaw break away for rushes over 20+ yards 13 times, but the longest was only 48 yards. He has shown this ability consistently over his career to make at least one break away run a game, with the exception of last year. The running game was in decline in 2010 compared to 2008 when we led the league in rushing, but to say that it was bad is disengenuous. </P>


I guess you would say our passing offense was bad in 2010 also b/c Eli had 25 interceptions?Forget about the 31tdsright. Eli made a lot of big plays through the air so by your logic that discounts their value, just like Bradshaws long runs. C'mon Drez, even if you don't admit on the board deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you know I'm right. </P>

miked1958
04-23-2012, 06:52 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/38331/weekend-mailbag-redskins-running-backs

Joseph Kony from Antarctica asks whether I share his belief that New York Giants quarterback Eli Manning's production will drop now that his big brother is back in the league this year. Joseph believes that "without the pressure of having to compete with his brother, Eli was able to have his best statistical year and win the SB... again."

DG: I think that's a reach, Joseph. Eli Manning's career arc is one of steady improvement year over year, with the one exception being the interception total from 2010. He's an excellent player in his own right, obviously mentally tough enough that no one should still be questioning the way in which he handles the fact that his big brother operates in the same profession. I would have thought the second Super Bowl ring would have eliminated questions about Eli and Peyton's shadow. But your question reinforces my sad theory that people are always going to believe what they want to believe, even in the face of evidence to the contrary.No

Drez
04-23-2012, 07:04 PM
It's funny on this board if you don't say Eli is the greatest QB of all time you get grilled. I think Elihas improved year over year since he came into the league. I think last year was his best year ever as it was the first year he didn't have a good running game at his disposal yet he still led us to a championship. More than just the numbers last year he was more consistent in his performance. </p>


None of these accomplishments make him the best QB in the league now or the bestQB ever or even better than his brother. It does makehim"one of the best". </p>


Eli is one guy that is seemingly oblivious to pressure. So, I doubt if there was any siblingrivalry that weighed in on his performamce. Last year was the result of a a continuous effort to improve his game since his rookie year.The Peyton injury was irrelevant.</p>


</p>



If you think this was the first year that Eli hasn't had a running game, then you haven't watched Giants football since '09.
</p>


We had the 6th best rushing offense in 2010.</p>



The yards are irrelevant. We did not have a good running game. How many times did AB have to break or shake a tackler within 2 yards of the LoS before breaking a decent run. We had plenty of games where the yd totals were good, but it was the result of a few big run interspersed with a bunch of short gains. We had a highly inconsistent running game, not a good one. And an inconsistent one does not spell a good running game to me.
Huh? How can the rushing yards be irrelevant when accounting for the running game? Sometimes it's just better to admit your wrong rather then defend an assertion based on nothing.
But, the thing is... I'm not wrong. Our running game struggled in '10. The yards obfuscate that fact. Just looking at the yards, you can say that we were top 10 in the NFL in rushing, but by actually looking at the game you'd see that we were very inconsistent and struggled.

Just because Bradshaw was able to pop a couple big runs a game in '10 that upped the yardage total doesn't mean that we were a good running team. In fact, you can say that the biggest difference between our running game last season and in '10 was the fact that Bradshaw wasn't able to do that.

You can go ahead thinking that our running game was good in '10 if you want, but it does nothing to change the fact that it wasn't.
</p>


No looking at the games you would see that we rushed for over 100 yards in 13 of 16 games. You would've seen Bradhshaw break away for rushes over 20+ yards 13 times, but the longest was only 48 yards. He has shown this ability consistently over his career to make at least one break away run a game, with the exception of last year. The running game was in decline in 2010 compared to 2008 when we led the league in rushing, but to say that it was bad is disengenuous. </p>


I guess you would say our passing offense was bad in 2010 also b/c Eli had 25 interceptions?Forget about the 31tdsright. Eli made a lot of big plays through the air so by your logic that discounts their value, just like Bradshaws long runs. C'mon Drez, even if you don't admit on the board deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you know I'm right. </p>
No. You are not right. Our running game was not nearly as good as the stats would dictate, and in fact struggled. Again, and this seems to be the point you don't seem to understand, is that just because AB was able to break a few big runs a game doesn't mean our running game was good. AB and BJ were constantly met within a couple of yards of the LoS, often in the backfield. While AB had a very good season, the running game as a whole did not. Save for the 4th quarter of the Seattle game, there were very few times we could dictate anything with our running game in '10.

To answer your counter, no, I would not say that solely because of Eli's 25 picks that our passing game was poor, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that it was a resounding success, either. In fact that isn't what my reasoning even says. Very poor attempt by you. Actually, my logic would dictate that by looking at the tape that Eli's season wasn't nearly as poor as the 25 picks would indicate. Many were tip ups or receivers running the wrong route. Sure, there were quite a few that were bad, but you could tell that it was more because Eli was pressing too hard, trying to force things that weren't there. There were very few that were just horrible interceptions that would lead me to believe that it would be problematic going forward.

B&RWarrior
04-23-2012, 10:03 PM
No. You are not right. Our running game was not nearly as good as the stats would dictate, and in fact struggled. Again, and this seems to be the point you don't seem to understand, is that just because AB was able to break a few big runs a game doesn't mean our running game was good. AB and BJ were constantly met within a couple of yards of the LoS, often in the backfield. While AB had a very good season, the running game as a whole did not. Save for the 4th quarter of the Seattle game, there were very few times we could dictate anything with our running game in '10.

To answer your counter, no, I would not say that solely because of Eli's 25 picks that our passing game was poor, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that it was a resounding success, either. In fact that isn't what my reasoning even says. Very poor attempt by you. Actually, my logic would dictate that by looking at the tape that Eli's season wasn't nearly as poor as the 25 picks would indicate. Many were tip ups or receivers running the wrong route. Sure, there were quite a few that were bad, but you could tell that it was more because Eli was pressing too hard, trying to force things that weren't there. There were very few that were just horrible interceptions that would lead me to believe that it would be problematic going forward.
</P>


Numbers don't always tell the whole story I agree, but in this case it's hard to dispute the truth. As Al Sharpton always says, "We can have different opinions but we can't have different facts", and the fact of the matter is Bradshaw consistently broke 20-50 yard runs off in 2010. In fact he was the second best RB in the league in this department.Great runs are signs of a good running game. Guess who also had a good season runnig the ball BJ. BJ had a 5.6 per carry average in 2010 and hehad over a third of the total carries. He also had 10 runs over 20 yards, 6th best in the league. </P>


Now that means that both backs in a 2 back system had a good season. .Do you know what that equals? A good running game.</P>


The fact that bothRBs with two very different styles of running both excelled at breaking long runs should tell you that we were blocking well at all 3 levels. They both averaged over 4.5 yards per carry. If your saying the running game was bad then there were 26 teams that wished they're running game was as bad as ours. </P>


2011 was a bad season for our running game. 2010 GOOD!</P>


Say it with me Drez "I have gone against Black Madden and lost, and I am a better man for it."</P>

jomo
04-23-2012, 10:07 PM
I know I say this often but these types of articlescompel me to repeat it. If media guys were really bright, thoughtful, analytical or insightful they would be doing important work. Instead, they work in the media.Their job is simply to say stupid stuff and see who they can get a rise out of. If you pay attention to them you are taking the bait. Don't!

Drez
04-23-2012, 10:20 PM
No. You are not right. Our running game was not nearly as good as the stats would dictate, and in fact struggled. Again, and this seems to be the point you don't seem to understand, is that just because AB was able to break a few big runs a game doesn't mean our running game was good. AB and BJ were constantly met within a couple of yards of the LoS, often in the backfield. While AB had a very good season, the running game as a whole did not. Save for the 4th quarter of the Seattle game, there were very few times we could dictate anything with our running game in '10.

To answer your counter, no, I would not say that solely because of Eli's 25 picks that our passing game was poor, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that it was a resounding success, either. In fact that isn't what my reasoning even says. Very poor attempt by you. Actually, my logic would dictate that by looking at the tape that Eli's season wasn't nearly as poor as the 25 picks would indicate. Many were tip ups or receivers running the wrong route. Sure, there were quite a few that were bad, but you could tell that it was more because Eli was pressing too hard, trying to force things that weren't there. There were very few that were just horrible interceptions that would lead me to believe that it would be problematic going forward.
</p>


Numbers don't always tell the whole story I agree, but in this case it's hard to dispute the truth. As Al Sharpton always says, "We can have different opinions but we can't have different facts", and the fact of the matter is Bradshaw consistently broke 20-50 yard runs off in 2010. In fact he was the second best RB in the league in this department.Great runs are signs of a good running game. Guess who also had a good season runnig the ball BJ. BJ had a 5.6 per carry average in 2010 and hehad over a third of the total carries. He also had 10 runs over 20 yards, 6th best in the league. </p>


Now that means that both backs in a 2 back system had a good season. .Do you know what that equals? A good running game.</p>


The fact that bothRBs with two very different styles of running both excelled at breaking long runs should tell you that we were blocking well at all 3 levels. They both averaged over 4.5 yards per carry. If your saying the running game was bad then there were 26 teams that wished they're running game was as bad as ours. </p>


2011 was a bad season for our running game. 2010 GOOD!</p>


Say it with me Drez "I have gone against Black Madden and lost, and I am a better man for it."</p>
No, that means that they were good runners, not that we had a good running game. The running game consists of more than just the runners.

B&RWarrior
04-23-2012, 10:24 PM
No. You are not right. Our running game was not nearly as good as the stats would dictate, and in fact struggled. Again, and this seems to be the point you don't seem to understand, is that just because AB was able to break a few big runs a game doesn't mean our running game was good. AB and BJ were constantly met within a couple of yards of the LoS, often in the backfield. While AB had a very good season, the running game as a whole did not. Save for the 4th quarter of the Seattle game, there were very few times we could dictate anything with our running game in '10.

To answer your counter, no, I would not say that solely because of Eli's 25 picks that our passing game was poor, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that it was a resounding success, either. In fact that isn't what my reasoning even says. Very poor attempt by you. Actually, my logic would dictate that by looking at the tape that Eli's season wasn't nearly as poor as the 25 picks would indicate. Many were tip ups or receivers running the wrong route. Sure, there were quite a few that were bad, but you could tell that it was more because Eli was pressing too hard, trying to force things that weren't there. There were very few that were just horrible interceptions that would lead me to believe that it would be problematic going forward.
</P>


Numbers don't always tell the whole story I agree, but in this case it's hard to dispute the truth. As Al Sharpton always says, "We can have different opinions but we can't have different facts", and the fact of the matter is Bradshaw consistently broke 20-50 yard runs off in 2010. In fact he was the second best RB in the league in this department.Great runs are signs of a good running game. Guess who also had a good season runnig the ball BJ. BJ had a 5.6 per carry average in 2010 and hehad over a third of the total carries. He also had 10 runs over 20 yards, 6th best in the league. </P>


Now that means that both backs in a 2 back system had a good season. .Do you know what that equals? A good running game.</P>


The fact that bothRBs with two very different styles of running both excelled at breaking long runs should tell you that we were blocking well at all 3 levels. They both averaged over 4.5 yards per carry. If your saying the running game was bad then there were 26 teams that wished they're running game was as bad as ours. </P>


2011 was a bad season for our running game. 2010 GOOD!</P>


Say it with me Drez "I have gone against Black Madden and lost, and I am a better man for it."</P>



No, that means that they were good runners, not that we had a good running game. The running game consists of more than just the runners.
</P>


Da Nile (denial) is a river in Egypt! LOL!</P>

G-Man67
04-24-2012, 10:58 AM
The yards are irrelevant. We did not have a good running game. How many times did AB have to break or shake a tackler within 2 yards of the LoS before breaking a decent run. We had plenty of games where the yd totals were good, but it was the result of a few big run interspersed with a bunch of short gains. We had a highly inconsistent running game, not a good one. And an inconsistent one does not spell a good running game to me.

But, the thing is... I'm not wrong. Our running game struggled in '10. The yards obfuscate that fact. Just looking at the yards, you can say that we were top 10 in the NFL in rushing, but by actually looking at the game you'd see that we were very inconsistent and struggled.

Just because Bradshaw was able to pop a couple big runs a game in '10 that upped the yardage total doesn't mean that we were a good running team. In fact, you can say that the biggest difference between our running game last season and in '10 was the fact that Bradshaw wasn't able to do that.

You can go ahead thinking that our running game was good in '10 if you want, but it does nothing to change the fact that it wasn't.
</P>


but that's how running games go ... you pound, you pound, you pound, you bust a couple ... believe me no team in this league is getting 4 or 5 yards everytime they hand off ... every team has no gain runs and even a few for lost yardage ... so all you really can look at is total yards and yards per carry and rushing TDs .. in fact, go watch film on Barry Sanders ... he'd lose 5, lose 7, then bust one for 40</P>


so our average was 6th best, our yards were 6th best and our TDs were 6th best</P>


if that don't add up to the 6th best rushing team in 2010, then i don't know what does</P>


so really last year was the anomaly ... now im not saying we will be 6th best rushing in 2012, but we should be solidly back in the top half of rushing attacks, since we finished last year pretty strong running the ball and this coaching staff has shown a pretty consistent willingness to stick to the run</P>


finally, i do not expect us to be trailing in 15 out of 16 regular season games, so just being ahead more often will lead to us running more and will improve our ranking</P>

Drez
04-24-2012, 03:11 PM
The yards are irrelevant. We did not have a good running game. How many times did AB have to break or shake a tackler within 2 yards of the LoS before breaking a decent run. We had plenty of games where the yd totals were good, but it was the result of a few big run interspersed with a bunch of short gains. We had a highly inconsistent running game, not a good one. And an inconsistent one does not spell a good running game to me.

But, the thing is... I'm not wrong. Our running game struggled in '10. The yards obfuscate that fact. Just looking at the yards, you can say that we were top 10 in the NFL in rushing, but by actually looking at the game you'd see that we were very inconsistent and struggled.

Just because Bradshaw was able to pop a couple big runs a game in '10 that upped the yardage total doesn't mean that we were a good running team. In fact, you can say that the biggest difference between our running game last season and in '10 was the fact that Bradshaw wasn't able to do that.

You can go ahead thinking that our running game was good in '10 if you want, but it does nothing to change the fact that it wasn't.
</p>


but that's how running games go ... you pound, you pound, you pound, you bust a couple ... believe me no team in this league is getting 4 or 5 yards everytime they hand off ... every team has no gain runs and even a few for lost yardage ... so all you really can look at is total yards and yards per carry and rushing TDs .. in fact, go watch film on Barry Sanders ... he'd lose 5, lose 7, then bust one for 40</p>


so our average was 6th best, our yards were 6th best and our TDs were 6th best</p>


if that don't add up to the 6th best rushing team in 2010, then i don't know what does</p>


so really last year was the anomaly ... now im not saying we will be 6th best rushing in 2012, but we should be solidly back in the top half of rushing attacks, since we finished last year pretty strong running the ball and this coaching staff has shown a pretty consistent willingness to stick to the run</p>


finally, i do not expect us to be trailing in 15 out of 16 regular season games, so just being ahead more often will lead to us running more and will improve our ranking</p>

I disagree. To have a good running game your blockers must consistently open up holes for the backs. That was not the case in '10. While statistically we looked good running the ball, we weren't nearly as good as the stats looked. The running game was not something we could consistently lean on in '10 to take pressure off the passing game. In fact, save for the big runs that AB and Jacobs would occasionally produce, it was much like '11. If your running backs are consistently getting harassed at or before the LoS, then your running game isn't doing well, regardless of the yards they pick up after shaking a defender.

AB and BJ had good seasons running the ball in '10, but that doesn't necessitate that the running game was good, particularly when talking about the running game taking pressure off of the passing game.

G-Man67
04-25-2012, 01:49 PM
I disagree. To have a good running game your blockers must consistently open up holes for the backs. That was not the case in '10. While statistically we looked good running the ball, we weren't nearly as good as the stats looked. The running game was not something we could consistently lean on in '10 to take pressure off the passing game. In fact, save for the big runs that AB and Jacobs would occasionally produce, it was much like '11. If your running backs are consistently getting harassed at or before the LoS, then your running game isn't doing well, regardless of the yards they pick up after shaking a defender.

AB and BJ had good seasons running the ball in '10, but that doesn't necessitate that the running game was good, particularly when talking about the running game taking pressure off of the passing game.
</P>


i don't think AB and BJ regressed all that much from '10 to '11 ... yes AB was out for a few games and BJ wasn't getting any younger, but most agree ...</P>


that the fall off we saw was more to do with theo-line play</P>


in '10 you had a very cohesive line with a lot of chemistry built up from playing together for several years</P>


then you go from Diehl to Beatty at LT ... Beatty is more of an finesse pass blocking LT vs. Diehl</P>


you go from the extremely under-rated Seubert to Diehl at LG</P>


you go from Pro Bowl O'Hara and the chemistry he brought to Baas</P>


Snee - OK</P>


K-Mac - well '11 may have been his last season in the NFL, so obviously not at the top of his game</P>


as far as the holes angle ... you know it's not college football ... they are rarely holes that you can drive a truck thru in the NFL ... NFL RBs to be effective have to gain yards after contact and they have to have great vision to see the smallest of running lanes</P>


so again, it all circles back to us being a very good running team in '10 that regressed mostly due to the line changes in '11 ... but that thankfully solved some issues and our running attack became above average at the very end of the regular season and into the playoffs</P>


finally, i can't emphasize enough how being behind in 15 of 16 game affects your running stats ... if we knock that down to only being behind in 8 or 10 games this year, well our running stats will greatly benefit</P>