PDA

View Full Version : Question about the Hammer and DT



B&RWarrior
04-25-2012, 08:39 PM
I remember Keith Hamilton as a fierce run stopper that could get to the QB. I thought he was better versus the run than the pass, strong at the point of attack and able to take on double teams, very rarely did he move backwards. </P>


What technique did he play? Would we ever try to plug a Keith Hamilton like DT on our current defensive line? Who on our roster is most like Keith Hamilton ? Which DT in this draft most resembles the Hammer?</P>


</P>

slipknottin
04-25-2012, 08:49 PM
give me a few, im going to go pop in a couple games and look for you

giantsfan420
04-25-2012, 08:56 PM
i'd say if u were to combine L.Joseph and a healthy M.Austin into one player, u'd have a hamilton clone...

slipknottin
04-25-2012, 09:20 PM
Watching 2000 season, Hamilton is playing 1 tech most snaps. Also saw him at 0 tech in a 3 man front.

Size wise, hes very similar to Canty, 6'6 300+. Looks like he has a little better lower body strength though, which is what gives him his anchor.

NYG 5
04-25-2012, 09:29 PM
Watching 2000 season, Hamilton is playing 1 tech most snaps. Also saw him at 0 tech in a 3 man front.

Size wise, hes very similar to Canty, 6'6 300+. Looks like he has a little better lower body strength though, which is what gives him his anchor.

I remember him looking an OT, but being athletic and quick to go with his strength. like Lomas Brown, but bigger.

B&RWarrior
04-25-2012, 09:38 PM
Watching 2000 season, Hamilton is playing 1 tech most snaps. Also saw him at 0 tech in a 3 man front. Size wise, hes very similar to Canty, 6'6 300+. Looks like he has a little better lower body strength though, which is what gives him his anchor.</P>


Is he playing on Strahan's side? If so that would explain the high sack numbers he got throughout his career, Is he as quick as Canty? I can't understand why Canty's sack numbers are so low. He's not 2 gapping and he doesn't take on double teams.Honestly,I dont think his play has matched his contract at all.</P>


Is it unrealistic to expect us to draft a run suffer like Alameeda and play him at 3 tech? We are going to miss Rocky's run defense. </P>


</P>

slipknottin
04-25-2012, 10:13 PM
Is he playing on Strahan's side?* If so that would explain the high sack numbers he got throughout his career, Is he as quick as Canty?* I can't understand why Canty's sack numbers are so low.* He'*s not 2 gapping and he doesn't take on double teams.*Honestly,*I dont think his play has matched his contract at all.*</P>


Is it unrealistic to expect us to draft a run suffer like Alameeda and play him at 3 tech?* We are going to miss Rocky's run defense.* </P>


*</P>

No, he is playing RDT, which is opposite strahan.

Canty actually gets double teamed a ton. And I dont think 4 sacks is particularly 'low' for a DT anyway. Thats the same number Suh had this season.

Let me go through the superbowl just watching Canty and Ill give the breakdown of what and why

JJC7301
04-25-2012, 10:24 PM
I don't know about techniques, but Hammer was a really damn good player. A fairly unsung Giant great.

slipknottin
04-25-2012, 10:46 PM
first play on defense, Canty is at 3 tech, goes outside on the LG (Mankins a 4x probowler), has the HB come up and nearly tackle him, Canty bounces off both guys and goes around to the left. Tuck gets there first, safety.

2nd play, at 3t again, stretch run play to Cantys side, Canty actually handles Mankins, shoves him back, and cuts off the play, Ross comes up and makes the tackle.

3rd play, screen

4th play, still at 3t, Canty gets a nice upfield rush to the outside but Mankins pushes him right past Brady

5th play, quick pass, Canty had a bullrush going there, but brady fired the ball out

6th - run, up the middle Canty gets double teamed.

7th - reverse, JPP drops out, Canty actually gets triple teamed

8th - Canty drops in coverage

9th - canty not on field
10- not on field
11 - not on field
12 - not on field
13 - not on field
14 - not on field
15 - not on field
16 - not on field
17 - 3t quick pass, barely even had time to engage guard
18 - 3t, looks like he is not trying to push upfield, perhaps spying Brady, or looking to bat down quick passes
19 - same as previous play.
20- double teamed by center/mankins (for reference, JPP is at DT, Tuck and Osi at DE, Canty only player who gets double teamed)
21 - not on field
22 - not on field
23 - not on field
24 - not on field
25 - not on field
26 - run, the LT blocks down on Canty, Canty gets double teamed (center chips him too, so really he gets 3 OL hitting him) JPP is unblocked makes the tackle for a loss.
27 - pass, Canty at 3t, gets double teamed, again 3 different OL get a hand on him at some point.

End of the half

I think that summarizes why Canty doesnt get many sacks, he is double teamed near every play, except for the two plays he doesnt actually even attempt an upfield rush

B&RWarrior
04-25-2012, 11:04 PM
first play on defense, Canty is at 3 tech, goes outside on the LG (Mankins a 4x probowler), has the HB come up and nearly tackle him, Canty bounces off both guys and goes around to the left. Tuck gets there first, safety. 2nd play, at 3t again, stretch run play to Cantys side, Canty actually handles Mankins, shoves him back, and cuts off the play, Ross comes up and makes the tackle. 3rd play, screen 4th play, still at 3t, Canty gets a nice upfield rush to the outside but Mankins pushes him right past Brady 5th play, quick pass, Canty had a bullrush going there, but brady fired the ball out 6th - run, up the middle Canty gets double teamed. 7th - reverse, JPP drops out, Canty actually gets triple teamed 8th - Canty drops in coverage 9th - canty not on field 10- not on field 11 - not on field 12 - not on field 13 - not on field 14 - not on field 15 - not on field 16 - not on field 17 - 3t quick pass, barely even had time to engage guard 18 - 3t, looks like he is not trying to push upfield, perhaps spying Brady, or looking to bat down quick passes 19 - same as previous play. 20- double teamed by center/mankins (for reference, JPP is at DT, Tuck and Osi at DE, Canty only player who gets double teamed) 21 - not on field 22 - not on field 23 - not on field 24 - not on field 25 - not on field 26 - run, the LT blocks down on Canty, Canty gets double teamed (center chips him too, so really he gets 3 OL hitting him) JPP is unblocked makes the tackle for a loss. 27 - pass, Canty at 3t, gets double teamed, again 3 different OL get a hand on him at some point. End of the half I think that summarizes why Canty doesnt get many sacks, he is double teamed near every play, except for the two plays he doesnt actually even attempt an upfield rush</P>


He looks good in the highlights below, but he doesn't always play like this.* He got a fair amount of one on ones.* He's mediocre versus the run.* I think Fred Robbins was better versus the run and the pass.</P>


<SPAN class=style1><font color="blue">Chris Canty Highlights</font> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbc24cZy8rU)</SPAN></P>


<SPAN class=style1></SPAN>*</P>


<SPAN class=style1></SPAN>*</P>

slipknottin
04-25-2012, 11:24 PM
He looks good in the highlights below, but he doesn't always play like this.* He got a fair amount of one on ones.* He's mediocre versus the run.* I think Fred Robbins was better versus the run and the pass.<

I dont think he gets as many one on ones as youd think.

And I think he is good against the run, but his body type keeps him from being great there, tall lanky guys generally are not going to anchor as well as a shorter heavier guy.

Canty was credited with 12 tackles for a loss too. Which is second best in the league for a DT, Wilkerson for the Jets was first with 13.

B&RWarrior
04-25-2012, 11:46 PM
He looks good in the highlights below, but he doesn't always play like this.* He got a fair amount of one on ones.* He's mediocre versus the run.* I think Fred Robbins was better versus the run and the pass.<

I dont think he gets as many one on ones as youd think.

And I think he is good against the run, but his body type keeps him from being great there, tall lanky guys generally are not going to anchor as well as a shorter heavier guy.

Canty was credited with 12 tackles for a loss too. Which is second best in the league for a DT, Wilkerson for the Jets was first with 13.

Wow 12 is high. Thats my point he won't ever be a dominant run defender. He plays too high. Plenty of DT around his height that had better technique versus the run. C'mon Slip you know Robbins was better. Checkout the clip below. He used to consistently blow up the middle like this when he played for the Giants.

B&RWarrior
04-25-2012, 11:47 PM
He looks good in the highlights below, but he doesn't always play like this.* He got a fair amount of one on ones.* He's mediocre versus the run.* I think Fred Robbins was better versus the run and the pass.<

I dont think he gets as many one on ones as youd think.

And I think he is good against the run, but his body type keeps him from being great there, tall lanky guys generally are not going to anchor as well as a shorter heavier guy.

Canty was credited with 12 tackles for a loss too. Which is second best in the league for a DT, Wilkerson for the Jets was first with 13.

Wow 12 is high. Thats my point he won't ever be a dominant run defender. He plays too high. Plenty of DT around his height that had better technique versus the run. C'mon Slip you know Robbins was better. Checkout the clip below. He used to consistently blow up the middle like this when he played for the Giants.

Fred In Beast Mode </font> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE_GqKJUTck><font color= )

B&RWarrior
04-25-2012, 11:53 PM
He looks good in the highlights below, but he doesn't always play like this.* He got a fair amount of one on ones.* He's mediocre versus the run.* I think Fred Robbins was better versus the run and the pass.<

I dont think he gets as many one on ones as youd think.

And I think he is good against the run, but his body type keeps him from being great there, tall lanky guys generally are not going to anchor as well as a shorter heavier guy.

Canty was credited with 12 tackles for a loss too. Which is second best in the league for a DT, Wilkerson for the Jets was first with 13.

Wow 12 is high. Thats my point he won't ever be a dominant run defender. He plays too high. Plenty of DT around his height that had better technique versus the run. C'mon Slip you know Robbins was better. Checkout the clip below. He used to consistently blow up the middle like this when he played for the Giants.

Fred In Beast Mode </font> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE_GqKJUTck>< font color= )

slipknottin
04-25-2012, 11:58 PM
Wow 12 is high. Thats my point he won't ever be a dominant run defender. He plays too high. Plenty of DT around his height that had better technique versus the run.
He plays with good technique most of the time, Im sure he could bulk up to 330+ and be more of an anchor in the middle, but then he would lose most of his lateral agility and quickness.


C'mon Slip you know Robbins was better. Checkout the clip below. He used to consistently blow up the middle like this when he played for the Giants.

I thought Robbins was a great player for the 5 or so seasons he was a giant. Rare to find a 320+ pound guy with those kind of movement skills

jomo
04-26-2012, 12:00 AM
Watching 2000 season, Hamilton is playing 1 tech most snaps. Also saw him at 0 tech in a 3 man front. Size wise, hes very similar to Canty, 6'6 300+. Looks like he has a little better lower body strength though, which is what gives him his anchor.Hamilton at 6'6"? I had him closer to 6'2". He was stout for sure.

slipknottin
04-26-2012, 12:02 AM
Hamilton at 6'6"? I had him closer to 6'2". He was stout for sure.

nfl.com has him listed at 6'6.

http://www.nfl.com/player/keithhamilton/2500991/profile

He is definately substantially over the 295 pounds though, very thickly built.

Rat_bastich
04-26-2012, 12:52 AM
He probably was more 6'2" but the high top fade put him at 6'6".

Tommy_Ribs
04-26-2012, 02:42 PM
Hammer was originally a DE coming out of PITT and played some DE for us as a young player. I remember him being one of the few guys who gave Cowboys RT Erik Williams a lot to Handle.

I believe Reeves wanted to move him inside, and Keith put on like 10-15 more pounds of muscle and went in to DT, where he played next to Strahan. They were a great combo, and Hammer was a quality player to keep some attention off of Strahan in his own right.

He ended he career with like 65 sacks, which is a lot for someone who played the bulk of career on the inside.

Very, very good player.

By the Way, he has a son who plays for either Bergen Catholic or Don Boscoe who is probably going to be a very good player at the College Level as well.

G-Man67
04-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Keith had a knack for being able to "pull" o-lineman past him</P>


in fact, he is probably partially responsible for the refs paying closer attn to defenders holding at the line</P>


but despite that gray area, the guy was as solid as they come , good motor and was good vs. run and pass</P>

burier
04-26-2012, 03:01 PM
The main thing I like about Hammer was he controlled his gap.

He would actually lull lineman to sleep by way of total commitment to controling hs gap and and soon as you got complacent he'd blow up a play in the backfield. Highly cerebral player.