PDA

View Full Version : Shefter Just Said Bucs "Snuck" In front of Giants . . . .



GMENAGAIN
04-27-2012, 01:10 AM
and took Martin who the Giants wanted.</P>


I guess we'll never know if this is reallytrue (the Giants wanting Martin), but it certainly seemed to take the Giants a long time to get their pick in . . . . . </P>

VegasGmen
04-27-2012, 01:13 AM
We tried to trade back after we got shafted by bucs then took the next player on our board of NEED. Very un-JR like

DownWitJPP
04-27-2012, 01:14 AM
not true at all. They were shopping the pick, Reese said they were waiting for someone to give them the motherload.

also said that Wilson was the 2nd highest RB on their board behind only Trent Richardson. They like him better than Doug Martin

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 01:16 AM
not true at all. They were shopping the pick, Reese said they were waiting for someone to give them the motherload.

also said that Wilson was the 2nd highest RB on their board behind only Trent Richardson. They like him better than Doug Martin

this. A source told Garafolo that the team did indeed have Wilson higher than Martin.

TheEnigma
04-27-2012, 01:16 AM
I wonder what the Giants were seeking in a trade back.

gmen0820
04-27-2012, 01:19 AM
I wonder what the Giants were seeking in a trade back.Probably a top ten second rounder an a third.

Oh and sidenote: lol to the people who I argued with this offseason (not you) who thought if we traded into the second round we could get a first next year or two second rounders. Like I said, wrong.

TheEnigma
04-27-2012, 01:33 AM
I wonder what the Giants were seeking in a trade back.Probably a top ten second rounder an a third.

Oh and sidenote: lol to the people who I argued with this offseason (not you) who thought if we traded into the second round we could get a first next year or two second rounders. Like I said, wrong.I did mention trading back into the 2nd early on a few months back but I said for a 2nd next year. A 1st would of been too much lol

gmen0820
04-27-2012, 01:36 AM
I wonder what the Giants were seeking in a trade back.Probably a top ten second rounder an a third.

Oh and sidenote: lol to the people who I argued with this offseason (not you) who thought if we traded into the second round we could get a first next year or two second rounders. Like I said, wrong.I did mention trading back into the 2nd early on a few months back but I said for a 2nd next year. A 1st would of been too much lolYeah I don't remember specific people, I just remember people who were freaking out at some guy for only getting a 3rd for trading back to like 36.

TheEnigma
04-27-2012, 01:40 AM
I wonder what the Giants were seeking in a trade back.Probably a top ten second rounder an a third.

Oh and sidenote: lol to the people who I argued with this offseason (not you) who thought if we traded into the second round we could get a first next year or two second rounders. Like I said, wrong.I did mention trading back into the 2nd early on a few months back but I said for a 2nd next year. A 1st would of been too much lolYeah I don't remember specific people, I just remember people who were freaking out at some guy for only getting a 3rd for trading back to like 36.Yeah that was me lol. I said at the time to trade back to like 36 or 37 and land Doug Martin. A 3rd in 2012 or a 2nd in 2013 would of been fair. Too bad I was off a few spots on Martin's value though.

DVision
04-27-2012, 01:46 AM
The Giants let Shefter into their draft room?

Talorin2
04-27-2012, 01:51 AM
He is god, thus all seeing, all knowing... As all sports "journalists" are.

Tommy_Ribs
04-27-2012, 01:56 AM
Schefter also said I had a chance with Kate Upton.

Guess what, I didn't.

JPP
04-27-2012, 01:58 AM
not true at all. They were shopping the pick, Reese said they were waiting for someone to give them the motherload.

also said that Wilson was the 2nd highest RB on their board behind only Trent Richardson. They like him better than Doug Martin

this. A source told Garafolo that the team did indeed have Wilson higher than Martin.

It tends to make sense as well since Wilson is a multi-sport athlete and is the exact kind of athletic player the Giants seem to like taking. I wanted Martin but I'm hoping we really wanted Wilson more and he turns out better in the long run.(pun intended)

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 02:02 AM
Hes only 20 too, turns 21 in two months

G-Men Surg.
04-27-2012, 02:41 AM
I don't think DM was ahead of Wilson, JR already mentioned Wilson was his 2nd RB in the draft. I also think Doug Martin's running style is hazardous and could spill lots of injuries at the next level and scared a lot of teams away from drafting him that high.

TheBookOfEli
04-27-2012, 05:54 AM
Hes only 20 too, turns 21 in two months

That is a plus. I love when the Giants draft those 22 and under.

GMENAGAIN
04-27-2012, 07:49 AM
not true at all. They were shopping the pick, Reese said they were waiting for someone to give them the motherload. also said that Wilson was the 2nd highest RB on their board behind only Trent Richardson. They like him better than Doug Martin this. A source told Garafolo that the team did indeed have Wilson higher than Martin.</P>


That's exactly what the Giants have to say, no matter if it is true or not . . . . </P>

gmen0820
04-27-2012, 08:03 AM
I wonder what the Giants were seeking in a trade back.Probably a top ten second rounder an a third.

Oh and sidenote: lol to the people who I argued with this offseason (not you) who thought if we traded into the second round we could get a first next year or two second rounders. Like I said, wrong.I did mention trading back into the 2nd early on a few months back but I said for a 2nd next year. A 1st would of been too much lolYeah I don't remember specific people, I just remember people who were freaking out at some guy for only getting a 3rd for trading back to like 36.Yeah that was me lol. I said at the time to trade back to like 36 or 37 and land Doug Martin. A 3rd in 2012 or a 2nd in 2013 would of been fair. Too bad I was off a few spots on Martin's value though.It wasn't you, there was like 4 people who berated this guy lol.

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 08:09 AM
I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth.. I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board...

nevada11
04-27-2012, 08:15 AM
*I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth..** I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board...

no, wilson is a way better back that dominated consistently against better competition

reese had him as his second running back

he is better than doug martin and they would pick him if martin was still there

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 08:29 AM
I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth.. I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board... no, wilson is a way better back that dominated consistently against better competition reese had him as his second running back he is better than doug martin and they would pick him if martin was still there hes better?lol Ok, i guess Mayock had him as his 17th ranked prospect overall, and David Wilson the 33rd , and just about every other Draft personality also had Martin ahead of Wilson, because of how much better Wilson is, ey??lol </P>


Martin is a complete back, built to be a workhorse, and he returns kicks as well.. He dominated his entire career at Boise St, and as i said months ago, when Wilson and Miller were consensusly ranked ahead of Martin, hes the 2nd best back in this draft, and i would not be surprised if he went in RD 1.. Not saying WIlson can't be good, but Martin has every down back size, and is a total package, with little to no weakness...</P>

buddy33
04-27-2012, 08:37 AM
I think Wilson fits the Giants perfectly. He runs extremely hard. I don't know why some are questioning his size. I mean he is only 20 years old and he is 206 pounds. He could easily get to 212-215.

Why would Reese lie? I mean really. Some are saing he drafted out of need. I think they needed an OL before a RB.

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 08:44 AM
I think Wilson fits the Giants perfectly. He runs extremely hard. I don't know why some are questioning his size. I mean he is only 20 years old and he is 206 pounds. He could easily get to 212-215. Why would Reese lie? I mean really. Some are saing he drafted out of need. I think they needed an OL before a RB. u mean, why wouldent reese say the bucs did jump em and get the RB they coveted?? Hmmm? I wonder why??lol Teams always say the player they got, is the player they want, its not exactly the biggest confident boost to the new player when he finds out he was in fact 2nd choice, ya know? </P>


Its the same thing with Cj Spiller i said a few yrs ago, and you as many were, were all about him as well.. Hes a complementary back, who will wear down as the yr goes on and always be risk for injury... By the way, David Wilson had a great yr, with alot of carries, and coincidently, the last 2games of the season were by far his worst and in fact, not good running 11carry 32yrd and 24carry 82yrd, that avg's out to just a touch over 3yrds per carry...</P>


Sure, Wilson could be a fine comp back, and i could be dead wrong, but i see him more as a Isaiah Pead type RB, and dont' really see him being any better then Pead either...</P>

nevada11
04-27-2012, 08:46 AM
*I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth..** I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board... no, wilson is a way better back that dominated consistently against better competition reese had him as his second running back he is better than doug martin and they would pick him if martin was still there** hes better?lol* Ok, i guess Mayock had him as his 17th ranked prospect overall,* and David Wilson the 33rd ,* and just about every other Draft personality also had Martin ahead of Wilson, because of how much better Wilson is, ey??lol </P>


Martin is a complete back, built to be a workhorse, and he returns kicks as well.. He dominated his entire career at Boise St, and as i said months ago,* when Wilson and Miller were consensusly ranked ahead of Martin, hes the 2nd best back in this draft, and i would not be surprised if he went in RD 1..* Not saying WIlson can't be good, but Martin has every down back size, and is a total package, with little to no weakness...</P>

david wilson has superior speed.

is more athletic

played against better competition

more consistent

he is way better prospect than martin. so what if walterfootball loves martin. JERRY REESE had wilson as his number 2 back. thats all that matters

jerry reese evaluations > you

you aint the GM fella. the giants clearly felt wilson was better than martin and he is because they said so

buddy33
04-27-2012, 08:52 AM
The kid looks tough. I don't know how much wear and tear he can take, but the Giants like using multiple backs anyway. I don't want to see a RB getting 30+ carries a game anyway. Having a change of pace is better and keeps even the toughest RB's healthy.

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 09:17 AM
The kid looks tough. I don't know how much wear and tear he can take, but the Giants like using multiple backs anyway. I don't want to see a RB getting 30+ carries a game anyway. Having a change of pace is better and keeps even the toughest RB's healthy. THe point is, u can find guys that are split/tandem backs in later rds.. Could;ve just drafted Isaiah Pead or something.. Very similar playing styles.. Not to mention, with Ahmad Bradshaws feet issues, havign a guy who can carry a heavy load if needed, is a nice thing to have... But hey, maybe Wilson proves he can.. I just don't like the way he wore down at the end of the season..

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 09:20 AM
I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth.. I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board... no, wilson is a way better back that dominated consistently against better competition reese had him as his second running back he is better than doug martin and they would pick him if martin was still there hes better?lol Ok, i guess Mayock had him as his 17th ranked prospect overall, and David Wilson the 33rd , and just about every other Draft personality also had Martin ahead of Wilson, because of how much better Wilson is, ey??lol </P>


Martin is a complete back, built to be a workhorse, and he returns kicks as well.. He dominated his entire career at Boise St, and as i said months ago, when Wilson and Miller were consensusly ranked ahead of Martin, hes the 2nd best back in this draft, and i would not be surprised if he went in RD 1.. Not saying WIlson can't be good, but Martin has every down back size, and is a total package, with little to no weakness...</P> david wilson has superior speed. is more athletic played against better competition more consistent he is way better prospect than martin. so what if walterfootball loves martin. JERRY REESE had wilson as his number 2 back. thats all that matters jerry reese evaluations &gt; you you aint the GM fella. the giants clearly felt wilson was better than martin and he is because they said so Walt football? I said Mayock has em as his 17th ranked prospect, and Wilson his 33rd... Sure, Walt likes em better as well, i dont see how u can't, buti wasen't talking about walt..lol What happened the last 2games of the season to WIlson? Why'd he avg barley over 3yrds a carry in the most important part of Va Techs season?

buddy33
04-27-2012, 09:48 AM
The kid looks tough. I don't know how much wear and tear he can take, but the Giants like using multiple backs anyway. I don't want to see a RB getting 30+ carries a game anyway. Having a change of pace is better and keeps even the toughest RB's healthy. THe point is, u can find guys that are split/tandem backs in later rds.. Could;ve just drafted Isaiah Pead or something.. Very similar playing styles..* Not to mention, with Ahmad Bradshaws feet issues, havign a guy who can carry a heavy load if needed, is a nice thing to have...* But hey, maybe Wilson proves he can.. I just don't like the way he wore down at the end of the season..

Are you takking about the Clemson and Michigan games? If so, is itbreallybfair to say he wore down? I mean they got beat bad against Clemson and from what I saw again Michigan he was running hard. He didn't seem to be worn down in the Bowl game at all.

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 10:53 AM
and took Martin who the Giants wanted.</P>


I guess we'll never know if this is really*true (the Giants wanting Martin), but it certainly seemed to take the Giants a long time to get their pick in . . . . . *</P>

Bob Papa this morning said that the Giants had Wilson graded higher than Martin.

GMENAGAIN
04-27-2012, 11:08 AM
and took Martin who the Giants wanted.</P>


I guess we'll never know if this is reallytrue (the Giants wanting Martin), but it certainly seemed to take the Giants a long time to get their pick in . . . . . </P>


Bob Papa this morning said that the Giants had Wilson graded higher than Martin.</P>


I hope that's true. It could very well be that the pick took so long because they were discussing deals to trade back . . . . . </P>

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 11:08 AM
The kid looks tough. I don't know how much wear and tear he can take, but the Giants like using multiple backs anyway. I don't want to see a RB getting 30+ carries a game anyway. Having a change of pace is better and keeps even the toughest RB's healthy. THe point is, u can find guys that are split/tandem backs in later rds.. Could;ve just drafted Isaiah Pead or something.. Very similar playing styles.. Not to mention, with Ahmad Bradshaws feet issues, havign a guy who can carry a heavy load if needed, is a nice thing to have... But hey, maybe Wilson proves he can.. I just don't like the way he wore down at the end of the season.. Are you takking about the Clemson and Michigan games? If so, is itbreallybfair to say he wore down? I mean they got beat bad against Clemson and from what I saw again Michigan he was running hard. He didn't seem to be worn down in the Bowl game at all. very unproductive none the less.. It was crunch time, and he was not there to be leaned on.. I think the upside is there, and as a tandem back, he could be very good, but i just don't like the value at pick 32.. The only RB's i thought were 1st rd quality were Trent Richardson and Doug Martin.. Both those backs have the look of big strong beasts, who can do the other stuff as well.. I don't get that feeling from David Wilson..

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 11:12 AM
and took Martin who the Giants wanted.</P>


I guess we'll never know if this is reallytrue (the Giants wanting Martin), but it certainly seemed to take the Giants a long time to get their pick in . . . . . </P> Bob Papa this morning said that the Giants had Wilson graded higher than Martin. Jerry Reese himself said "I THINK its probably PRETTY FAIR to say"... That dosen't sound to me like a man going 100pct backing his pick, but a guy whos saying the right thing to not hurt his new RB's feelings and/or confidence..

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 11:46 AM
>I hope that's true.* It could very well be that the pick took so long because they were discussing deals to trade back . . . . . </P>

They were indeed trying to trade back. Didnt get a substantial enough offer.

buddy33
04-27-2012, 11:48 AM
The kid looks tough. I don't know how much wear and tear he can take, but the Giants like using multiple backs anyway. I don't want to see a RB getting 30+ carries a game anyway. Having a change of pace is better and keeps even the toughest RB's healthy. THe point is, u can find guys that are split/tandem backs in later rds.. Could;ve just drafted Isaiah Pead or something.. Very similar playing styles..* Not to mention, with Ahmad Bradshaws feet issues, havign a guy who can carry a heavy load if needed, is a nice thing to have...* But hey, maybe Wilson proves he can.. I just don't like the way he wore down at the end of the season.. Are you takking about the Clemson and Michigan games? If so, is itbreallybfair to say he wore down? I mean they got beat bad against Clemson and from what I saw again Michigan he was running hard. He didn't seem to be worn down in the Bowl game at all.** very unproductive none the less..* It was crunch time, and he was not there to be leaned on.. I** think the upside is there, and as a tandem back, he could be very good, but i just don't like the value at pick 32.. The only RB's i thought were 1st rd quality were Trent Richardson and Doug Martin.. Both those backs have the look of big strong beasts, who can do the other stuff as well..* I don't get that feeling from David Wilson..

Without seeing the game, Clemson beat them bad based on the score. Maybe the run game was taken away and that's why he was so unproductive. As far as wearing down, he didn't look like it against Michigan even tough he didn't have a great stat sheet. He did run hard though from clips I saw of the Bowl game.

Like is said, I'd rather no see just one back getting it 30 times a game anyway. I like the multiple back system. Time will tell if this guy can handle the punishment.

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 12:02 PM
*I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth..** I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board... no, wilson is a way better back that dominated consistently against better competition reese had him as his second running back he is better than doug martin and they would pick him if martin was still there** hes better?lol* Ok, i guess Mayock had him as his 17th ranked prospect overall,* and David Wilson the 33rd ,* and just about every other Draft personality also had Martin ahead of Wilson, because of how much better Wilson is, ey??lol </P>


Martin is a complete back, built to be a workhorse, and he returns kicks as well.. He dominated his entire career at Boise St, and as i said months ago,* when Wilson and Miller were consensusly ranked ahead of Martin, hes the 2nd best back in this draft, and i would not be surprised if he went in RD 1..* Not saying WIlson can't be good, but Martin has every down back size, and is a total package, with little to no weakness...</P>

While I agree with you, I would like to mention that every analyst in the world had Moreno, Wells and Brown rated higher than McCoy in 2009. Outside rankings don't mean squat.

While Doug Martin is a more complete back then Dave Wilson, Wilson has better balance and vision and has played against a higher level of competition in a better program.

And Bob Papa (who does have access to the Giants draft boards) said that WIlson was rated higher then Martin by the Giants (on the same tier ... but higher overall).

Giants got who they wanted, and I think they got a really great pick.

The only real surprise (for me) was that Cordy Glenn was available and they didn't go that route.

P.S. - Supposedly there is a HUGE drop off between Richardson/Martin/Wilson/Miller and the rest of the RBs in this draft according to many.

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 12:06 PM
and took Martin who the Giants wanted.</P>


I guess we'll never know if this is really*true (the Giants wanting Martin), but it certainly seemed to take the Giants a long time to get their pick in . . . . . *</P> Bob Papa this morning said that the Giants had Wilson graded higher than Martin.** Jerry Reese himself said "*I THINK its probably PRETTY FAIR to say"...** That dosen't sound to me like a man going 100pct backing his pick, but a guy whos saying the right thing to not hurt his new RB's feelings and/or confidence..*

That was in reference to being asked if Wilson was BPA at the time.

The rest of that quote was that Wilson was close enough to the BPA as not to matter so they went with position of need. But he was talking about the whole field at the time, not just running back (which hopefully shuts all the BPA people up).

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 12:10 PM
The way I see it this is how the giants thought process was.

Vastly over simplified, but lets say that there is an OL with a 8.0 grade, and a HB with a 7.5 grade.

But by the time you are picking again the best OL has a 7.0 grade but the best HB has a 6.0 grade.

While the HB is technically not the BPA, taking the HB now allows them to draft a good player now, and then a good OL later, as opposed to if they had taken the OL now, they would have had a choice of subpar backs later.

Two good players vs. one possibly very good and one bad player.

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 12:15 PM
The way I see it this is how the giants thought process was.

Vastly over simplified, but lets say that there is an OL with a 8.0 grade, and a HB with a 7.5 grade.

But by the time you are picking again the best OL has a 7.0 grade but the best HB has a 6.0 grade.

While the HB is technically not the BPA, taking the HB now allows them to draft a good player now, and then a good OL later, as opposed to if they had taken the OL now, they would have had a choice of subpar backs later.

Two good players vs. one possibly very good and one bad player.

Exactly my ideas on the Giants' thought process as well regarding this pick.

And this is a studly running back who's gotten better every year (something not a lot of people are talking about). Huge upside on a young kid who will most likely improve in the NFL.

nevada11
04-27-2012, 12:17 PM
I would like to mention that every analyst in the world had Moreno, Wells and Brown rated higher than McCoy in 2009. Outside rankings don't mean squat.

While Doug Martin is a more complete back then Dave Wilson, Wilson has better balance and vision and has played against a higher level of competition in a better program.

And Bob Papa (who does have access to the Giants draft boards) said that WIlson was rated higher then Martin by the Giants (on the same tier ... but higher overall).

Giants got who they wanted, and I think they got a really great pick..

Thank you Kruunch, you gave my post for me

I understand the doug martin fanbody man fetish nycsportzfan has.. but that doesnt mean for a second im gonna take his word over jerry reese that martin is better than wilson

Wilson will be a stud. I love how he talks about wilson having 2 bad games at the end of the year (even though he had like 6 straight 100-yard rushing games!!!!) but an anymous scout said "there are games in 2011 when martin looked like an undrafted free agent" LOL!!!

Martin is a good player but he aint no MJD. He doesnt have mjd's thick, trunky legs and extremely strong lower body. We understand nyz u feel hurt the giants couldnt get martin, but wilson has better upside and will be the better back. reese had him as #2 thats all u should know, reese > you (nycsportzfan)

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 12:19 PM
and took Martin who the Giants wanted.</P>


I guess we'll never know if this is reallytrue (the Giants wanting Martin), but it certainly seemed to take the Giants a long time to get their pick in . . . . . </P>


Bob Papa this morning said that the Giants had Wilson graded higher than Martin. Jerry Reese himself said "I THINK its probably PRETTY FAIR to say"... That dosen't sound to me like a man going 100pct backing his pick, but a guy whos saying the right thing to not hurt his new RB's feelings and/or confidence.. That was in reference to being asked if Wilson was BPA at the time. The rest of that quote was that Wilson was close enough to the BPA as not to matter so they went with position of need. But he was talking about the whole field at the time, not just running back (which hopefully shuts all the BPA people up). No it wasen't... THe question is right here.. What are u talking about?</P>


</P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Q: Is it fair to say he was the second running back on your board?<U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>A: I think itís probably pretty fair to say that</P>

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 12:20 PM
I would like to mention that every analyst in the world had Moreno, Wells and Brown rated higher than McCoy in 2009. Outside rankings don't mean squat.

While Doug Martin is a more complete back then Dave Wilson, Wilson has better balance and vision and has played against a higher level of competition in a better program.

And Bob Papa (who does have access to the Giants draft boards) said that WIlson was rated higher then Martin by the Giants (on the same tier ... but higher overall).

Giants got who they wanted, and I think they got a really great pick..

Thank you Kruunch, you gave my post for me

I understand the doug martin fanbody man fetish nycsportzfan has.. but that doesnt mean for a second im gonna take his word over jerry reese that martin is better than wilson

Wilson will be a stud. I love how he talks about wilson having 2 bad games at the end of the year (even though he had like 6 straight 100-yard rushing games!!!!) but an anymous scout said "there are games in 2011 when martin looked like an undrafted free agent" LOL!!!

Martin is a good player but he aint no MJD. He doesnt have mjd's thick, trunky legs and extremely strong lower body. We understand nyz u feel hurt the giants couldnt get martin, but wilson has better upside and will be the better back. reese had him as #2 thats all u should know, reese > you (nycsportzfan)

Hey don't get me wrong, I like Martin a lot and I would have been thrilled if we had picked him (I liked him more than Wilson (2 and 2a in my mind)).

But Wilson does appear to have more upside (younger, better program, better intangibles, higher level of competition, etc ...).

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 12:21 PM
and took Martin who the Giants wanted.</P>


I guess we'll never know if this is really*true (the Giants wanting Martin), but it certainly seemed to take the Giants a long time to get their pick in . . . . . *</P>


Bob Papa this morning said that the Giants had Wilson graded higher than Martin.** Jerry Reese himself said "*I THINK its probably PRETTY FAIR to say"...** That dosen't sound to me like a man going 100pct backing his pick, but a guy whos saying the right thing to not hurt his new RB's feelings and/or confidence..* That was in reference to being asked if Wilson was BPA at the time. The rest of that quote was that Wilson was close enough to the BPA as not to matter so they went with position of need. But he was talking about the whole field at the time, not just running back (which hopefully shuts all the BPA people up).** No it wasen't...* THe question is right here.. What are u talking about?</P>


*</P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Q: Is it fair to say he was the second running back on your board?<U></U><U></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>A: I think itís probably pretty fair to say that</P>

So you're using your latent ESP and empathy to turn that into Reese lying about how he had his RBs rated?

Ok.

nevada11
04-27-2012, 12:21 PM
But Wilson does appear to have more upside (younger, better program, better intangibles, higher level of competition, etc ...).

I agree. the kid has much better acceleration and speed too

martin lacks upside. he doesnt have much room to get better. dont get me wrong, hes a solid back but is already polished as it is. wilson has the better ceiling and is only 20 years old dominating the acc when nobody could stop him

nycsportzfan
04-27-2012, 12:28 PM
I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth.. I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board... no, wilson is a way better back that dominated consistently against better competition reese had him as his second running back he is better than doug martin and they would pick him if martin was still there hes better?lol Ok, i guess Mayock had him as his 17th ranked prospect overall, and David Wilson the 33rd , and just about every other Draft personality also had Martin ahead of Wilson, because of how much better Wilson is, ey??lol </P>


Martin is a complete back, built to be a workhorse, and he returns kicks as well.. He dominated his entire career at Boise St, and as i said months ago, when Wilson and Miller were consensusly ranked ahead of Martin, hes the 2nd best back in this draft, and i would not be surprised if he went in RD 1.. Not saying WIlson can't be good, but Martin has every down back size, and is a total package, with little to no weakness...</P>


While I agree with you, I would like to mention that every analyst in the world had Moreno, Wells and Brown rated higher than McCoy in 2009. Outside rankings don't mean squat. While Doug Martin is a more complete back then Dave Wilson, Wilson has better balance and vision and has played against a higher level of competition in a better program. And Bob Papa (who does have access to the Giants draft boards) said that WIlson was rated higher then Martin by the Giants (on the same tier ... but higher overall). Giants got who they wanted, and I think they got a really great pick. The only real surprise (for me) was that Cordy Glenn was available and they didn't go that route. P.S. - Supposedly there is a HUGE drop off between Richardson/Martin/Wilson/Miller and the rest of the RBs in this draft according to many. Its funny u mention Moreno, because thats who he reminds me of... In one sentence u talk about outside rankings not meaning squat, and in the next u talk about many saying that theres a big drop off in RB prospects after Martin Richardson Wilson and Miller..lol I woulden't be so sure that Isaiah Pead isnt every bit as good as Wilson, and I'd put Chris Polk, bernard pierce and even Cyrus Gray in the mix of RB's who could easily be better backs then both Miller and Wilson when said and done.. I think theres just a huge clump after Richardson adn Martin.. What way they'll go as pros, as far as productivity is totally in the air...</P>


I've been following this RB class since 2010, religously(most of em), and i'm telling ya, Doug Martin is the more complete, NFL type back, as far as being more complete and being able to be on teh field more.. Your talking a Ray Rice/MJD type back... I knew Doug Martin was gonna fly up ahead of Wilson and Miller well before it was a hot commodity.. Its just not that hard to tell in my opinion, who the better back is, as far as Prospect wise for teh NFL..</P>

CGYgiant
04-27-2012, 12:36 PM
I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth.. I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board... no, wilson is a way better back that dominated consistently against better competition reese had him as his second running back he is better than doug martin and they would pick him if martin was still there hes better?lol Ok, i guess Mayock had him as his 17th ranked prospect overall, and David Wilson the 33rd , and just about every other Draft personality also had Martin ahead of Wilson, because of how much better Wilson is, ey??lol </p>


Martin is a complete back, built to be a workhorse, and he returns kicks as well.. He dominated his entire career at Boise St, and as i said months ago, when Wilson and Miller were consensusly ranked ahead of Martin, hes the 2nd best back in this draft, and i would not be surprised if he went in RD 1.. Not saying WIlson can't be good, but Martin has every down back size, and is a total package, with little to no weakness...</p>


While I agree with you, I would like to mention that every analyst in the world had Moreno, Wells and Brown rated higher than McCoy in 2009. Outside rankings don't mean squat. While Doug Martin is a more complete back then Dave Wilson, Wilson has better balance and vision and has played against a higher level of competition in a better program. And Bob Papa (who does have access to the Giants draft boards) said that WIlson was rated higher then Martin by the Giants (on the same tier ... but higher overall). Giants got who they wanted, and I think they got a really great pick. The only real surprise (for me) was that Cordy Glenn was available and they didn't go that route. P.S. - Supposedly there is a HUGE drop off between Richardson/Martin/Wilson/Miller and the rest of the RBs in this draft according to many. Its funny u mention Moreno, because thats who he reminds me of... In one sentence u talk about outside rankings not meaning squat, and in the next u talk about many saying that theres a big drop off in RB prospects after Martin Richardson Wilson and Miller..lol I woulden't be so sure that Isaiah Pead isnt every bit as good as Wilson, and I'd put Chris Polk, bernard pierce and even Cyrus Gray in the mix of RB's who could easily be better backs then both Miller and Wilson when said and done.. I think theres just a huge clump after Richardson adn Martin.. What way they'll go as pros, as far as productivity is totally in the air...</p>


I've been following this RB class since 2010, religously(most of em), and i'm telling ya, Doug Martin is the more complete, NFL type back, as far as being more complete and being able to be on teh field more.. Your talking a Ray Rice/MJD type back... I knew Doug Martin was gonna fly up ahead of Wilson and Miller well before it was a hot commodity.. Its just not that hard to tell in my opinion, who the better back is, as far as Prospect wise for teh NFL..</p>

Its impossible to determine who the best back will be. Lets let these guys play in the NFL instead of making assumptions.

Although, I do think that David Wilson is the most explosive running back in the draft and his ceiling is really high. Although Martin is probably more NFL ready. In the end we don't know how these guys will turn out but Wilson appears to be a very safe pick who is talented.

And Jerry Reece doesn't come across as a liar. Neither does Bob Papa or Garafalo who all claim that sources have told them that the Giants had Wilson higher then Martin. These same sources mentioned that the Giants had Glenn rated higher then Wilson so it does seem to be pretty accurate. Also, Jerry Reece said they liked both guys and that they were pretty equal value in their eyes.

nevada11
04-27-2012, 12:38 PM
And Jerry Reece doesn't come across as a liar. Neither does Bob Papa or Garafalo who all claim that sources have told them that the Giants had Wilson higher then Martin. These same sources mentioned that the Giants had Glenn rated higher then Wilson so it does seem to be pretty accurate. Also, Jerry Reece said they liked both guys and that they were pretty equal value in their eyes.


Exactly. sportzfan just has a fanboy man fetish about doug martin. It is ok.. all of us are guilty

But own up to it nycsportzfan. stop trying to convince people wilson is a question mark or a risk. And nit pick 2 games he wasnt productive when this kid was unstoppable in the ACC all yr. jerry reese had wilson rated above martin, wilson is the better player

martin is nfl ready but wilson has superior upside

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 12:48 PM
*I agree with Shefter personally, for what its worth..** I think Doug Martin would of been the pick if he had been on the board... no, wilson is a way better back that dominated consistently against better competition reese had him as his second running back he is better than doug martin and they would pick him if martin was still there** hes better?lol* Ok, i guess Mayock had him as his 17th ranked prospect overall,* and David Wilson the 33rd ,* and just about every other Draft personality also had Martin ahead of Wilson, because of how much better Wilson is, ey??lol </P>


Martin is a complete back, built to be a workhorse, and he returns kicks as well.. He dominated his entire career at Boise St, and as i said months ago,* when Wilson and Miller were consensusly ranked ahead of Martin, hes the 2nd best back in this draft, and i would not be surprised if he went in RD 1..* Not saying WIlson can't be good, but Martin has every down back size, and is a total package, with little to no weakness...</P>


While I agree with you, I would like to mention that every analyst in the world had Moreno, Wells and Brown rated higher than McCoy in 2009. Outside rankings don't mean squat. While Doug Martin is a more complete back then Dave Wilson, Wilson has better balance and vision and has played against a higher level of competition in a better program. And Bob Papa (who does have access to the Giants draft boards) said that WIlson was rated higher then Martin by the Giants (on the same tier ... but higher overall). Giants got who they wanted, and I think they got a really great pick. The only real surprise (for me) was that Cordy Glenn was available and they didn't go that route. P.S. - Supposedly there is a HUGE drop off between Richardson/Martin/Wilson/Miller and the rest of the RBs in this draft according to many.* Its funny u mention Moreno, because thats who he reminds me of...**** In one sentence u talk about outside rankings not meaning squat, and in the next u talk about many saying that theres a big drop off in RB prospects after Martin Richardson Wilson and Miller..lol** I woulden't be so sure that Isaiah Pead isnt every bit as good as Wilson, and I'd put Chris Polk, bernard pierce and even Cyrus Gray in the mix of RB's who could easily be better backs then both Miller and Wilson when said and done.. I think theres just a huge clump after Richardson adn Martin.. What way they'll go as pros, as far as productivity is totally in the air...</P>


I've been following this RB class since 2010, religously(most of em), and i'm telling ya, Doug Martin is the more complete, NFL type back, as far as being more complete and being able to be on teh field more.. Your talking a Ray Rice/MJD type back...** I knew Doug Martin was gonna fly up ahead of Wilson and Miller well before it was a hot commodity..* Its just not that hard to tell in my opinion, who the better back is, as far as Prospect wise for teh NFL..</P>

Ok ... so point to the other highly rated NFL running backs to come out of Boise St. in the past ... 1,000 years.

Martin is a more *complete* back. He can catch and block. Blocking can be taught (and WIlson is a really intelligent and diligent kid) and catching can be taught although I will agree with you that Wilson doesn't seem as natural at it as Martin does.

However because of the difference in programs and competition, I wouldn't say that Martin is any more NFL ready then Wilson is. Slightly maybe ... but not enough to say one is heads and tails above the other.

However you cannot deny that Wilson has better balance and vision than Martin. Those aren't things you can coach into a player.

The rest of the RBs you mention are a joke compared to either with the possible exceptions of Isaiah Pead and Miller. Chris Polk is a fumble waiting to happen. You think Wilson has fumbling problems? Wait till Polk hits the NFL and runs around forearming the rock.

And Cyrus Gray ... If you can't see the TREMENDOUS differences between Gray and WIlson we'll just agree to disagree now because our frames of reference are totally different then.