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View Full Version : Running Backs are a dime a dozen



TuckYou
04-27-2012, 11:41 AM
I am not thrilled with this pick at all. I wasn't thrilled with JPP though either, so, really it doesnt mean much. </P>


BUT</P>


Running backs are a dime a dozen. The only one I would of taken is Richardson. After that, it is too deep to get one in the first. </P>


Im not saying Wilson will be bad or a bust by anymeans, but I feel we reached. I feel we were hoping Doug Martin was thereand the Bucs straight up smacked us in the nose by trading right in front of us and snagging him. </P>


And I want to go on record and say that Courtney Upshaw is going to be a probowler for years to come. Watching this guy play, he could do it all. Rush the passer, play LB, ect. Reminds me of when DeMeco Ryans slipped. Upshaw will be better then Ryans, who won the DROY and has been to multiple probowls. </P>


I would of rather taken someone to replace MM like Stephan Hill. It's a passing league now. We dont run the ball as much as we used to. And it netted us a 2nd SB in 4 years. Nicks and Cruz willnot both be resigned.</P>


Our Oline was one of the worst for run blocking in the NFL. That isnt going to change much. Id almost rather we rebuild the Oline. Cordy Glenn, Konz, Adams...The trenches. </P>


Anyway, I dont agree with the pick, but Reese is the man so I guess we will see what his game plan is. I guess I am just a little sour because the Bucs made us look bad too. </P>

Firenugget
04-27-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm tired of hearing that. No offense to you personally, just in general. RB's are definitely not a dime a dozen. Unless of course you mean 3rd/4th string RB's...

As far as the Bucs go I like Wilson better than Martin myself.

JMFP2
04-27-2012, 11:51 AM
I am not thrilled with this pick at all. I wasn't thrilled with JPP though either, so, really it doesnt mean much. </P>


BUT</P>


Running backs are a dime a dozen. The only one I would of taken is Richardson. After that, it is too deep to get one in the first. </P>


Im not saying Wilson will be bad or a bust by anymeans, but I feel we reached. I feel we were hoping Doug Martin was thereand the Bucs straight up smacked us in the nose by trading right in front of us and snagging him. </P>


And I want to go on record and say that Courtney Upshaw is going to be a probowler for years to come. Watching this guy play, he could do it all. Rush the passer, play LB, ect. Reminds me of when DeMeco Ryans slipped. Upshaw will be better then Ryans, who won the DROY and has been to multiple probowls. </P>


I would of rather taken someone to replace MM like Stephan Hill. It's a passing league now. We dont run the ball as much as we used to. And it netted us a 2nd SB in 4 years. Nicks and Cruz willnot both be resigned.</P>


Our Oline was one of the worst for run blocking in the NFL. That isnt going to change much. Id almost rather we rebuild the Oline. Cordy Glenn, Konz, Adams...The trenches. </P>


Anyway, I dont agree with the pick, but Reese is the man so I guess we will see what his game plan is. I guess I am just a little sour because the Bucs made us look bad too. </P>


</P>


I'm usually one of the first guys to criticize Reese. But this was a very good pick, that addressed a big weakness.</P>


The Giants won despite their running game, not because of it. In fact, the running game was one of the reasons the Giants were one game from not making the playoffs at all.</P>


Prior to the draft, the running game was even worse, due to Jacobs leaving.</P>


Right now, Bradshaw has missed OTA's.He missed games last season, and barely practiced.</P>


The Giants just can't bank on Bradshaw being 100% this year....it's not realistic given his history.</P>


One of the reasons the Giants running attack suffered was because Bradshaw was injured, and even when he was ready to play, he didn't practice during the week.</P>


So, running back was a glaring need. Reese took the best player available to address that need.</P>


The kid ran for 1700 yards last season. He's crazy fast, and built like MJD and Ray Rice.</P>


Great pick by Reese/Ross, in my opinion.</P>

G-Man67
04-27-2012, 11:57 AM
glad u qualified it by saying you didn't like the JPP pick either</P>


the only thing i wil give you is that the Giants would have a hard time selling this as a BPA pick</P>


even if he was the highest on our board ... that would mean to me that our board was created with need in mind</P>


but i trust Jerry, RBs are a dime a dozen but special RBs aren't, so let's see what we got here</P>


and the fun has just begun ... nothing like shopping for Grocery's when you already have a Championship gourmet meal on the table</P>

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 12:03 PM
Giants felt there will be a run on HBs in the 2nd round, and by the time they were on the clock again the quality at the position would be subpar

RoanokeFan
04-27-2012, 12:09 PM
glad u qualified it by saying you didn't like the JPP pick either</p>


<font color="#0000FF">the only thing i wil give you is that the Giants would have a hard time selling this as a BPA pick</font></p>


even if he was the highest on our board ... that would mean to me that our board was created with need in mind</p>


but i trust Jerry, RBs are a dime a dozen but special RBs aren't, so let's see what we got here</p>


and the fun has just begun ... nothing like shopping for Grocery's when you already have a Championship gourmet meal on the table</p>

Why is that so important? Can't it be that a need can be filled with a BPA? We draft who we draft for whatever reason(s). Most of the time, it seems to work here. I've never understood it to be a board devoid of need concern but rather we will take BPA when our turn comes and if it fills a need, great. They must have more than one option at each pick in the event that their BPA is gone when they pick.

Husky
04-27-2012, 12:13 PM
<span data-jsid="text" class="commentBody">He was timed @4.35 for the 40 at Pro day. He's said to be a "stellar pass catcher". The way the League is today, he's exactly what the Dr ordered. Miss a tackle and he's gone. Teams will have to respect his speed.

</span>

RoanokeFan
04-27-2012, 12:15 PM
Giants felt there will be a run on HBs in the 2nd round, and by the time they were on the clock again the quality at the position would be subpar

This makes the most sense to me. How could they let him go for another BPA knowing Wilson would be long gone at pick 64. I thunk it was a good move for now and the future. I'd like to see them get another TE and OT on offense and a DT/DE on defense.

Do you think they would consider trading up for Fleener offering Osi and a 7th round pick? Fleener will never make it to 64.

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 12:17 PM
He's said to be a "stellar pass catcher".*

eh? His 21 catches dont real make him a stellar pass catcher. He could probably be pretty good on bubble screens, but he has very little experience as a receiver

TuckYou
04-27-2012, 12:18 PM
I'm tired of hearing that. No offense to you personally, just in general. RB's are definitely not a dime a dozen. Unless of course you mean 3rd/4th string RB's...

As far as the Bucs go I like Wilson better than Martin myself.


No, RBs are a dime a dozen. Bradshaw is a perfect example. 7th round. Jacobs was a 4th round. Only time will tell though.

For now, I trust Reese and will root hard for David Wilson. I just see this as a need pick, not a BPA.

FBomb
04-27-2012, 12:18 PM
Well, Tuckyou doesn't like it......I'm sold.</P>


GREAT PICK!!![;)]</P>

RoanokeFan
04-27-2012, 12:18 PM
He's said to be a "stellar pass catcher".

eh? His 21 catches dont real make him a stellar pass catcher. He could probably be pretty good on bubble screens, but he has very little experience as a receiver

We can coach him up on that [;)]

RoanokeFan
04-27-2012, 12:19 PM
Well, Tuckyou doesn't like it......I'm sold.</p>


GREAT PICK!!![;)]</p>

lol

CDN_G-FAN
04-27-2012, 12:21 PM
even though we can, i don't want to go through another year where we throw the ball that much ever again.</P>


i honestly think reese picked what he thought was BPA.</P>


you may disagree with his board, but his track record is so strong that frankly you have to consider what you're missing instead of what he's missing.</P>


</P>

TuckYou
04-27-2012, 12:21 PM
Well, Tuckyou doesn't like it......I'm sold.</P>


GREAT PICK!!![;)]</P>

You could be right, lol.

But I also didn't like the Sintim pick.

DJloves
04-27-2012, 12:21 PM
why can't nicks and cruz both be signed? them two and jpp is our next generation of greats - we need to keep them.

Morehead State
04-27-2012, 12:22 PM
I am not thrilled with this pick at all. I wasn't thrilled with JPP though either, so, really it doesnt mean much. </P>


BUT</P>


Running backs are a dime a dozen. The only one I would of taken is Richardson. After that, it is too deep to get one in the first. </P>


Im not saying Wilson will be bad or a bust by anymeans, but I feel we reached. I feel we were hoping Doug Martin was thereand the Bucs straight up smacked us in the nose by trading right in front of us and snagging him. </P>


And I want to go on record and say that Courtney Upshaw is going to be a probowler for years to come. Watching this guy play, he could do it all. Rush the passer, play LB, ect. Reminds me of when DeMeco Ryans slipped. Upshaw will be better then Ryans, who won the DROY and has been to multiple probowls. </P>


I would of rather taken someone to replace MM like Stephan Hill. It's a passing league now. We dont run the ball as much as we used to. And it netted us a 2nd SB in 4 years. Nicks and Cruz willnot both be resigned.</P>


Our Oline was one of the worst for run blocking in the NFL. That isnt going to change much. Id almost rather we rebuild the Oline. Cordy Glenn, Konz, Adams...The trenches. </P>


Anyway, I dont agree with the pick, but Reese is the man so I guess we will see what his game plan is. I guess I am just a little sour because the Bucs made us look bad too. </P>


</P>


This is another myth in the NFL. And it so cliche its getting boring. </P>


MOST RB's are a dime a dozen. But great RB's are game changers and can improve the productivity of almost every aspect of your football team.</P>


If JR thought he had a chance to get a player like that he was right to take it.</P>

TuckYou
04-27-2012, 12:24 PM
why can't nicks and cruz both be signed? them two and jpp is our next generation of greats - we need to keep them.

I would love it, but think about how much money these 2 will command. Then add in top DE money to JPP. I hope Reese can figure it out, but it reminds me of the T2 vs Ross situation. We could only keep one.

DelawareGiants
04-27-2012, 12:25 PM
Giants felt there will be a run on HBs in the 2nd round, and by the time they were on the clock again the quality at the position would be subpar

This makes the most sense to me.* How could they let him go for another BPA knowing Wilson would be long gone at pick 64.** I thunk it was a good move for now and the future.* I'd like to see them get another TE and OT on offense and a DT/DE on defense.

Do you think they would consider trading up for Fleener offering Osi and a 7th round pick?* Fleener will never make it to 64.


Do NOT see them trading up for Fleener but possibly trade up to take someone high on their board that will not reach them at bottom of second. (Like Massie, Jonathan Martin, Randle possibly) then hopefully take dwayne allen at bottom of second. Then for 3rd round- maybe pick up Mike Martin if he lasts.

mikeq672
04-27-2012, 12:27 PM
I'm tired of hearing that. No offense to you personally, just in general. RB's are definitely not a dime a dozen. Unless of course you mean 3rd/4th string RB's...

As far as the Bucs go I like Wilson better than Martin myself.


No, RBs are a dime a dozen. Bradshaw is a perfect example. 7th round. Jacobs was a 4th round. Only time will tell though.

For now, I trust Reese and will root hard for David Wilson. I just see this as a need pick, not a BPA.

Brady was drafted in the 6th round, I guess QB's are a dime a dozen too. And Im beginning to think most of you dont actually know what dime a dozen means, either that or you actually think that running backs are so common that they have 0 value.

I get a kick out of the reaching comments too, its not reaching if you think the guy is going to be good. If you like him, you take him.

I guess youd just rather watch shotgun draws to Ware all season long.

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 12:32 PM
someone do a quick look of starting HBs around the league and what round they were drafted in. I would guess most were rounds 1-3.

BlueSanta
04-27-2012, 12:36 PM
He's said to be a "stellar pass catcher".

eh? His 21 catches dont real make him a stellar pass catcher. He could probably be pretty good on bubble screens, but he has very little experience as a receiver

He was the best performing back in the pass catching drills at the combine.

It is true VT didnt use him much, but that is a flaw in their offense, not in him. To be honest, that offense can be painful to watch. I always have a hard time evaluating QBs and WRs from there because it is so simple a system.

TrueBlue@NYC
04-27-2012, 12:39 PM
someone do a quick look of starting HBs around the league and what round they were drafted in. I would guess most were rounds 1-3.</P>


You could say the same thing about EVERY position in the NFL, but I'm willing to bet there's a higher percentage of starting RBs' outside of top two rounds than there is for most other positions. </P>


I'm not against the pick, I like it actually as it fills a need and likely gives us a future starter with the last pick in the 1st round. But if RB was as valuable a position as others than you wouldn't have OT's and CBs' consistently getting more money each year. </P>

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 12:39 PM
He was the best performing back in the pass catching drills at the combine.

It is true VT didnt use him much, but that is a flaw in their offense, not in him. To be honest, that offense can be painful to watch. I always have a hard time evaluating QBs and WRs from there because it is so simple a system.


Im not knocking him personally for it, I know he cant do anything about the system. But I just look at it as him having very little experience as a receiver.

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 12:41 PM
You could say the same thing about EVERY position in the NFL, but I'm willing to bet there's a higher percentage of starting RBs' outside of top two rounds than there is for most other positions. </P>

Compare guards, TEs, HBs, I bet the highest percentage of early picks is at HB of those three positions.

T.Rice57
04-27-2012, 12:45 PM
Giants felt there will be a run on HBs in the 2nd round, and by the time they were on the clock again the quality at the position would be subpar

This makes the most sense to me. How could they let him go for another BPA knowing Wilson would be long gone at pick 64. I thunk it was a good move for now and the future. I'd like to see them get another TE and OT on offense and a DT/DE on defense.

Do you think they would consider trading up for Fleener offering Osi and a 7th round pick? Fleener will never make it to 64.


Osi and a 7th for Fleener??? This would be a horrible decision.

Osi is still one of the best pure pass rushers in the game, and is under contract for another year. Why would you give him away for next to nothing? Our only strength on defense is rushing the passer, and without Osi, our one strength would take a HUGE hit.

TrueBlue@NYC
04-27-2012, 12:46 PM
You could say the same thing about EVERY position in the NFL, but I'm willing to bet there's a higher percentage of starting RBs' outside of top two rounds than there is for most other positions.


</P>


Compare guards, TEs, HBs, I bet the highest percentage of early picks is at HB of those three positions.</P>


Maybe, it'd be close, but also remember Guards and TEs' tend to have much longer shelf lives than RBs'. And compare the type of money guards get in FA nowadays to RBs' and you see how teams value the position. </P>

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 12:48 PM
Maybe, it'd be close, but also remember Guards and TEs' tend to have much longer shelf lives than RBs'. And compare the type of money guards get in FA nowadays to RBs' and you see how teams value the position. </P>

Eh, figure he is under contract for 5 years... Worry about shelf life at the end of those 5 years. By that time they may be looking for a guy to take over from Eli. So I dont even really want to think about 5 years into the future

lawl
04-27-2012, 12:50 PM
He's said to be a "stellar pass catcher".*

eh? His 21 catches dont real make him a stellar pass catcher. He could probably be pretty good on bubble screens, but he has very little experience as a receiver

Just when I thought it couldn't get worse.

RoanokeFan
04-27-2012, 12:52 PM
Giants felt there will be a run on HBs in the 2nd round, and by the time they were on the clock again the quality at the position would be subpar

This makes the most sense to me. How could they let him go for another BPA knowing Wilson would be long gone at pick 64. I thunk it was a good move for now and the future. I'd like to see them get another TE and OT on offense and a DT/DE on defense.

Do you think they would consider trading up for Fleener offering Osi and a 7th round pick? Fleener will never make it to 64.


Osi and a 7th for Fleener??? This would be a horrible decision.

Osi is still one of the best pure pass rushers in the game, and is under contract for another year. Why would you give him away for next to nothing? Our only strength on defense is rushing the passer, and without Osi, our one strength would take a HUGE hit.


And Osi doesn't want to be here. So much so that he's offered to go ANYWHERE else and not redo his contract, something he says he's not interested in doing here.

myles2424
04-27-2012, 12:52 PM
He's said to be a "stellar pass catcher".*

eh? His 21 catches dont real make him a stellar pass catcher. He could probably be pretty good on bubble screens, but he has very little experience as a receiver
Supposedly he just wasn't used much as a receiver but looked very good in the drills at combine/proday..

TrueBlue@NYC
04-27-2012, 12:53 PM
Maybe, it'd be close, but also remember Guards and TEs' tend to have much longer shelf lives than RBs'. And compare the type of money guards get in FA nowadays to RBs' and you see how teams value the position. </P>


Eh, figure he is under contract for 5 years... Worry about shelf life at the end of those 5 years. By that time they may be looking for a guy to take over from Eli. So I dont even really want to think about 5 years into the future</P>


Like I said, I have no issues with the pick. Getting a potential (likely) starting RB at the end of the 1st round makes sense to me. I'm not knocking the pick. </P>


I'm just arguing the value of the RB position vs. other positions and the ability to find productive players at those positions later in the draft. </P>


You see 3-4 RBs' every year come out of nowhere to have very productive years. You don't see that as much with other positions, percentage wise. </P>

BurnerNYG
04-27-2012, 12:54 PM
"YEAH RIGHT"

gumby742
04-27-2012, 01:00 PM
I completely agree with the OP. I'm the biggest JR homer out there, but I do question this pick. The Denver broncos showed everyone years ago that behind a good o-line, anyone, and i mean anyone, can run for 1k yards.

G-Man67
04-27-2012, 01:06 PM
well think about why the RB position has been de-valued</P>


and as usual money is at the heart of it</P>


every team now has 2 RBs and many have 3 RBs that play (we obviously had AB, BJ and D-Ware last year)... so you don't want to tie up huge $$ in one RB</P>


2nd, RBs only have a shelf-life of a little over 5 years, so you are not getting someone that could be a star player for you for 8-10 years</P>


3rd, of course, is the fact that it is easier to move the ball in the air than on the ground with the way the NFL rules are</P>


finally RBs can be found in later rounds ... AB, Arian Foster (UDFA), etc.</P>


so let's evualate that vs. our draft pick ... at 32nd we will not have to break the bank and obviously we need RBs b/c we want to have a 3 back rotation</P>


with the RB shelf-life ... well again that means you need to re-stock and we just did that</P>


while it is easier to move the ball thru the air ... we have been a team that tries harder than most stay committed to the run ... plus, i'm hearing Wilson performed well in catching drills at the combine</P>


finally, while RBs can be found in later rounds and have been found in later rounds ... that doesn't mean they are easier to find in later rounds ... Wilson clearly will have a far greater shot to be good than somebody we might pick in the 6th round</P>

FBomb
04-27-2012, 01:09 PM
I completely agree with the OP. I'm the biggest JR homer out there, but I do question this pick. The Denver broncos showed everyone years ago that behind a good o-line, anyone, and i mean anyone, can run for 1k yards.</P>


So again I ask YOU....what o-lineman was worth picking at 32? IMHO, the Giants took the next best RB on the board. He would not have been there at our spot in rd 2. </P>

myles2424
04-27-2012, 01:09 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round??
Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....

G-Men Surg.
04-27-2012, 01:11 PM
Ohm Youngmisuk ? @NotoriousOHM Reply Retweet Favorite Open
RT @AdamSchefter @PSchrags: According to STATS, David Wilson gained 990 yards last season after making contact with a defender, best in NCAA

Yup RB are a dime a dozen but not every RB can do what this kid does ! Two words, Impact Player!

TuckYou
04-27-2012, 01:12 PM
I'm tired of hearing that. No offense to you personally, just in general. RB's are definitely not a dime a dozen. Unless of course you mean 3rd/4th string RB's...

As far as the Bucs go I like Wilson better than Martin myself.
No, RBs are a dime a dozen. Bradshaw is a perfect example. 7th round. Jacobs was a 4th round. Only time will tell though. For now, I trust Reese and will root hard for David Wilson. I just see this as a need pick, not a BPA.

Brady was drafted in the 6th round, I guess QB's are a dime a dozen too. And Im beginning to think most of you dont actually know what dime a dozen means, either that or you actually think that running backs are so common that they have 0 value.

I get a kick out of the reaching comments too, its not reaching if you think the guy is going to be good. If you like him, you take him.

I guess youd just rather watch shotgun draws to Ware all season long.
</P>


No. Id rather we waited on getting a RB in the draft. I dontthink Ware is any good.What if Scott turns it on this year?QBs are not a dime a dozen and that remark is irrelevant. How often does a Tom Brady come along in the 6th round compared to RBs falling late. In this specific class, I think there is asome good value deep for RBs. Yes, it is my worthless opinion, but I can say it. </P>


Also, Wilson does has fumbling issues from what I heard. </P>


Whatever though, Go Giants! Go David Wilson! Welcome to the Champs.</P>


</P>

RoanokeFan
04-27-2012, 01:14 PM
I completely agree with the OP. I'm the biggest JR homer out there, but I do question this pick. The Denver broncos showed everyone years ago that behind a good o-line, anyone, and i mean anyone, can run for 1k yards.</p>


So again I ask YOU....what o-lineman was worth picking at 32? IMHO, the Giants took the next best RB on the board. He would not have been there at our spot in rd 2. </p>

As Slip has so correctly pointed out, we aren't gong to pick again until 64, this made a lot of sense.

ny06
04-27-2012, 01:15 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


Terrell Davis</P>

lawl
04-27-2012, 01:16 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


Terrell Davis</P>

You don't need a dominant running back to win games.

myles2424
04-27-2012, 01:17 PM
I'm tired of hearing that. No offense to you personally, just in general. RB's are definitely not a dime a dozen. Unless of course you mean 3rd/4th string RB's...

As far as the Bucs go I like Wilson better than Martin myself.
No, RBs are a dime a dozen. Bradshaw is a perfect example. 7th round. Jacobs was a 4th round. Only time will tell though. For now, I trust Reese and will root hard for David Wilson. I just see this as a need pick, not a BPA.

Brady was drafted in the 6th round, I guess QB's are a dime a dozen too. And Im beginning to think most of you dont actually know what dime a dozen means, either that or you actually think that running backs are so common that they have 0 value.

I get a kick out of the reaching comments too, its not reaching if you think the guy is going to be good. If you like him, you take him.

I guess youd just rather watch shotgun draws to Ware all season long.
</P>


No. Id rather we waited on getting a RB in the draft. I dont*think Ware is any good.*What if Scott turns it on this year?*QBs are not a dime a dozen and that remark is irrelevant. How often does a Tom Brady come along in the 6th round compared to RBs falling late. In this specific class, I think there is asome good value deep for RBs. Yes, it is my worthless opinion, but I can say it. </P>


Also, Wilson does has fumbling issues from what I heard. </P>


Whatever though, Go Giants! Go David Wilson! Welcome to the Champs.</P>


*</P> what Dminate RBs playing now were taken after the 3rd round??? Besides Arian foster ofcourse.....
& for what's it's worth, Wilson has pretty much the same size/speed/running style & "negatives" coming into the league as Lesean McCoy

lawl
04-27-2012, 01:17 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round??
Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....

Last time a dominant rb won a sb?

Marshall faulk.

Its a meaningless position

TuckYou
04-27-2012, 01:18 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


for the Giants? Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward, Ryan Grant, Ahmad Bradshaw... those are just some from the Giants only and rescently. When our Oline was at its best we had two 1000 yard rushers in Ward and Jacobs. They both looked great. </P>

myles2424
04-27-2012, 01:18 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


Terrell Davis</P>

You don't need a dominant running back to win games.
You don't need a dominate passing game either, but I assume our passing game w/ a dominate running game is a little better than what we did last year on the ground....

myles2424
04-27-2012, 01:22 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


for the Giants? Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward, Ryan Grant, Ahmad Bradshaw... those are just some from the Giants only and rescently. When our Oline was at its best we had two 1000 yard rushers in Ward and Jacobs. They both looked great. </P>
Derrick ward & Ryan grant dominate? That's why they're hot items in the league right now right?
I'm talking ray rice,forte,MJD,Peterson,Chris Johnson,Lesean McCoy,McFadden when healthy, gore, Tomlinson pre 30s,

TuckYou
04-27-2012, 01:26 PM
Ok, I think some of you would love any pick that Reese made, and that doesnt make you wrong or right, or me wrong or right. Its all opinion. </P>


Bottom line is, I feel we could of got a great value RB later in the draft, in means of being productive for our team right now. Ill say it again, I think Wilson could be a great RB for us and hopefully will. But I feel like other RBs could be as well, in the later rounds. Meanwhile there were some nice other players there right now. I think Stephan Hill is going to be a very good WR. I think Upshaw is going to be dominant. </P>


</P>

CLR
04-27-2012, 01:26 PM
Damn Bucks, the only thing that would have made me happier than this pick is if we would have got Doug Martin who I believe was the main target before the Bucks snuck in there and got him.

lawl
04-27-2012, 01:27 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P> w


for the Giants? Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward, Ryan Grant, Ahmad Bradshaw... those are just some from the Giants only and rescently. When our Oline was at its best we had two 1000 yard rushers in Ward and Jacobs. They both looked great. </P>
Derrick ward & Ryan grant dominate? That's why they're hot items in the league right now right?
I'm talking ray rice,forte,MJD,Peterson,Chris Johnson,Lesean McCoy,McFadden when healthy, gore, Tomlinson pre 30s, no sb appearances for any of those guys.

investing alot into rb position hurts the future talent of your team

Husky
04-27-2012, 01:27 PM
He's said to be a "stellar pass catcher".

eh? His 21 catches dont real make him a stellar pass catcher. He could probably be pretty good on bubble screens, but he has very little experience as a receiver
I got that here. Exactly what that meant, I can't say. I meant to add the link. http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2950

JMFP2
04-27-2012, 01:32 PM
The Giants draft by "rows", not rounds.</P>


This tells me they though Wilson was at the top or their "row" for RBs, whereas the OL available didn't rank as highly.</P>


It's the same criteria Reese &amp; Rossused with Prince and JPP.</P>


Judging from their comments after the pick, seems like Wilson was an easy decision.</P>

FBomb
04-27-2012, 01:35 PM
Ok, I think some of you would love any pick that Reese made, and that doesnt make you wrong or right, or me wrong or right. Its all opinion. </P>


Bottom line is, I feel we could of got a great value RB later in the draft, in means of being productive for our team right now. Ill say it again, I think Wilson could be a great RB for us and hopefully will. But I feel like other RBs could be as well, in the later rounds. Meanwhile there were some nice other players there right now. I think Stephan Hill is going to be a very good WR. I think Upshaw is going to be dominant. </P>


</P>


</P>


lol....yeah, let's just dismiss all the valid arguements and facts thrown at you and write it all off to JR homers!!!</P>


As always, you make me laugh!!</P>

SweetZombieJesus
04-27-2012, 01:36 PM
I'm tired of hearing that. No offense to you personally, just in general. RB's are definitely not a dime a dozen. Unless of course you mean 3rd/4th string RB's...


Bradshaw went in the 7th

bflo23
04-27-2012, 01:37 PM
I am not thrilled with this pick at all. I wasn't thrilled with JPP though either, so, really it doesnt mean much. </p>


BUT</p>


Running backs are a dime a dozen. The only one I would of taken is Richardson. After that, it is too deep to get one in the first. </p>


Im not saying Wilson will be bad or a bust by anymeans, but I feel we reached. I feel we were hoping Doug Martin was thereand the Bucs straight up smacked us in the nose by trading right in front of us and snagging him. </p>


And I want to go on record and say that Courtney Upshaw is going to be a probowler for years to come. Watching this guy play, he could do it all. Rush the passer, play LB, ect. Reminds me of when DeMeco Ryans slipped. Upshaw will be better then Ryans, who won the DROY and has been to multiple probowls. </p>


I would of rather taken someone to replace MM like Stephan Hill. It's a passing league now. We dont run the ball as much as we used to. And it netted us a 2nd SB in 4 years. Nicks and Cruz willnot both be resigned.</p>


Our Oline was one of the worst for run blocking in the NFL. That isnt going to change much. Id almost rather we rebuild the Oline. Cordy Glenn, Konz, Adams...The trenches. </p>


Anyway, I dont agree with the pick, but Reese is the man so I guess we will see what his game plan is. I guess I am just a little sour because the Bucs made us look bad too. </p>

Only 6 RBs (30%) of the top 20 rushers were drafted pass the 2nd round..... Only 3 RBs (15%) would I be willing to have on the Giants. The percentages are very low to get a GOOD RB pass the 2nd round. Giants chance to get an Arian Foster or Michael Turner is low. The Giants could also get stuck with a Michael Bush (4th round) or Shonn Greene (3rd round).

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 01:38 PM
I am not thrilled with this pick at all. I wasn't thrilled with JPP though either, so, really it doesnt mean much. </P>


BUT</P>


Running backs are a dime a dozen. The only one I would of taken is Richardson. After that, it is too deep to get one in the first. </P>


Im not saying Wilson will be bad or a bust by anymeans, but I feel we reached. I feel we were hoping Doug Martin was there*and the Bucs straight up smacked us in the nose by trading right in front of us and snagging him. </P>


And I want to go on record and say that Courtney Upshaw is going to be a probowler for years to come. Watching this guy play, he could do it all. Rush the passer, play LB, ect. Reminds me of when DeMeco Ryans slipped. Upshaw will be better then Ryans, who won the DROY and has been to multiple probowls. </P>


I would of rather taken someone to replace MM like Stephan Hill. It's a passing league now. We dont run the ball as much as we used to. And it netted us a 2nd SB in 4 years. Nicks and Cruz will*not both be resigned.</P>


Our Oline was one of the worst for run blocking in the NFL. That isnt going to change much. Id almost rather we rebuild the Oline. Cordy Glenn, Konz, Adams...The trenches. </P>


Anyway, I dont agree with the pick, but Reese is the man so I guess we will see what his game plan is. I guess I am just a little sour because the Bucs made us look bad too. </P>

Great running backs are NOT a dime a dozen and David Wilson has the potential to be a great running back.

Fortunately the pros and Giants FO don't agree with you.

P.S. - David Wilson has 7 less receptions than Stephen Hill did in 2011 and the same amount of receptions as Hill in 2010. Pfffft.

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 01:38 PM
The Giants draft by "rows", not rounds.</P>


This tells me they though Wilson was at the top or their "row" for RBs, whereas the OL available didn't rank as highly.</P>


It's the same criteria Reese & Ross*used with Prince and JPP.</P>


Judging from their comments after the pick, seems like Wilson was an easy decision.</P>

They arent in rows by position, they are in rows by talent.

Supposedly, they had a higher grade on Cordy Glenn, but they felt that there would be a run on HBs in the 2nd round, and it was more likely they could find a good OL later in the draft than a good HB.

Husky
04-27-2012, 01:42 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round??
Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....

Last time a dominant rb won a sb?

Marshall faulk.

Its a meaningless position Corey Dillon and the Bus were dominant rbs. BUT the league has changed. It's about passing. This guy could be our Sproles only bigger. JMHO

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 01:43 PM
I'm tired of hearing that. No offense to you personally, just in general. RB's are definitely not a dime a dozen. Unless of course you mean 3rd/4th string RB's...


Bradshaw went in the 7th


Bradshaw has only broken 800 yards once in his career and has only had one season where he was available for every game.

I wish people would stop confusing value and raw production.

myles2424
04-27-2012, 01:45 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round??
Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....

Last time a dominant rb won a sb?

Marshall faulk.

Its a meaningless position* Corey Dillon and the Bus were dominant rbs.* BUT the league has changed.* It's about passing.* This guy could be our Sproles only bigger. JMHO

BTW, I was referring to RB playing now.....not over the years.....
Since RB are dime a dozen the league should be flooded with dominate late round backs right???

pino
04-27-2012, 01:47 PM
If RB's were a dime a dozen, every team would have one Adrian Peterson and one Shadey McCoy on their team. Maybe even an Arian Foster for depth.

BlueBlooded1979
04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P> w


for the Giants? Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward, Ryan Grant, Ahmad Bradshaw... those are just some from the Giants only and rescently. When our Oline was at its best we had two 1000 yard rushers in Ward and Jacobs. They both looked great. </P>
Derrick ward & Ryan grant dominate? That's why they're hot items in the league right now right?
I'm talking ray rice,forte,MJD,Peterson,Chris Johnson,Lesean McCoy,McFadden when healthy, gore, Tomlinson pre 30s, no sb appearances for any of those guys.

investing alot into rb position hurts the future talent of your team

Nothing wrong with having a good back but at what cost? They could have grabbed a solid DL, OL or WR that will be much harder to fill in the draft.

RBs pick later have the highest success rate of any position. Other postions don't generate the same returns later in the draft.

BlueBlooded1979
04-27-2012, 01:52 PM
If RB's were a dime a dozen, every team would have one Adrian Peterson and one Shadey McCoy on their team. Maybe even an Arian Foster for depth.

AP and McCoy watched the playoffs from home. Fosters team draft wisely and didn't piss away a pick on a RB.

bflo23
04-27-2012, 01:53 PM
Dime a dozen?

Not true. Only 15% chance to get GOOD RB in later rounds. There are only 3 RBs (drafted pass the 2nd round) in the top 20 rushers that I would want on my team. Those are Arian Foster, Michael Turner and Frank Gore (3rd round). Lets not count the Shonn Greene and Michael Bush as dimes. I like Ahmad Bradshaw but he is coming off a year that he got 3.9 yards per rush, has injury issues and is going into his 6th year. I know the o-line isn't good but Wilson could really help the Giants offense out.

bflo23
04-27-2012, 01:56 PM
If RB's were a dime a dozen, every team would have one Adrian Peterson and one Shadey McCoy on their team. Maybe even an Arian Foster for depth.

AP and McCoy watched the playoffs from home. Fosters team draft wisely and didn't piss away a pick on a RB.

It is a QB driven league and will always be. Do you really expect Adrian Peterson to carry the vikings to the playoffs with Christian Ponder averaging 160 passing yards per game and 13 tds/13 ints?

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 01:58 PM
If RB's were a dime a dozen, every team would have one Adrian Peterson and one Shadey McCoy on their team. Maybe even an Arian Foster for depth.

AP and McCoy watched the playoffs from home. Fosters team draft wisely and didn't piss away a pick on a RB.

Thankfully the pros and our front office don't agree with you.

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 01:59 PM
RBs pick later have the highest success rate of any position.

You couldn't have been more wrong if you said the Pope was kosher.

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 01:59 PM
AP and McCoy watched the playoffs from home. Fosters team draft wisely and didn't piss away a pick on a RB.

Fosters team drafted Ben Tate in the 2nd round. Tate was a huge part of their success this season.

Mohann
04-27-2012, 02:00 PM
If you have an Oline that opens holes, all you need is a running back that hits the holes hard and can pass block. You'll have a good running game. But a good or great RB can do much more. If he can catch he's improved the passing game with flexibility. If he's got game breaking speed defenses will have to make adjustment, making others jobs easier. If he can catch and run fast then watch him every play or he'll kill you. So yes, RBs are a dime a dozen, but good ones are much more expensive and great ones are priceless.

jomo
04-27-2012, 02:03 PM
Giants felt there will be a run on HBs in the 2nd round, and by the time they were on the clock again the quality at the position would be subpar

This makes the most sense to me.* How could they let him go for another BPA knowing Wilson would be long gone at pick 64.** I thunk it was a good move for now and the future.* I'd like to see them get another TE and OT on offense and a DT/DE on defense.

Do you think they would consider trading up for Fleener offering Osi and a 7th round pick?* Fleener will never make it to 64.
As much as I think it all starts with the OL, we are frightfully thin at RB especially given AB's health concerns which will be there for as long as he plays football. We need more immediate help at RB than we need anywhere and if the pool will be dry or full of so so pick when we draft next then JR did what he had to do and pulled the trigger on a very nice running back who projects to help us immediately one way or another.

Toadofsteel
04-27-2012, 02:05 PM
Correction: Danny Wares are a dime a dozen.

TuckYou
04-27-2012, 02:11 PM
Ok, I think some of you would love any pick that Reese made, and that doesnt make you wrong or right, or me wrong or right. Its all opinion. </P>


Bottom line is, I feel we could of got a great value RB later in the draft, in means of being productive for our team right now. Ill say it again, I think Wilson could be a great RB for us and hopefully will. But I feel like other RBs could be as well, in the later rounds. Meanwhile there were some nice other players there right now. I think Stephan Hill is going to be a very good WR. I think Upshaw is going to be dominant. </P>


</P>


</P>


lol....yeah, let's just dismiss all the valid arguements and facts thrown at you and write it all off to JR homers!!!</P>


As always, you make me laugh!!</P>


</P>


Facts? I dont see any facts. All I see are opinions. </P>

pino
04-27-2012, 02:14 PM
If RB's were a dime a dozen, every team would have one Adrian Peterson and one Shadey McCoy on their team. Maybe even an Arian Foster for depth.

AP and McCoy watched the playoffs from home. Fosters team draft wisely and didn't piss away a pick on a RB.

That's not the point. The point was made that RB's are a "dime a dozen". If that was true then every team would have a couple of stud RB's and they would come cheap.

Your point makes even less sense based off what I said; the RB position is not the reason those teams didn't make the playoffs. You make it sound as if we wouldn't have made the playoffs if we had Shadey McCoy on our team.

If you are trying to say that it takes more to make that playoffs than a stud RB, then I would agree with you, but then what does that have anything to do with the point I made?

jomo
04-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Correction: Danny Wares are a dime a dozen.Allow me to refine that.............a nickle a dozen.

Out of Exile
04-27-2012, 02:15 PM
I did not see us going RB in the first. I mean, if Scott is so solid then why are we going RB in the first? I feel the FO doesn't have much faith in anyone but Bradshaw. I just hope he pans out. I guess he will be competing for the #2 spot, right?

RoanokeFan
04-27-2012, 02:16 PM
Giants felt there will be a run on HBs in the 2nd round, and by the time they were on the clock again the quality at the position would be subpar

This makes the most sense to me. How could they let him go for another BPA knowing Wilson would be long gone at pick 64. I thunk it was a good move for now and the future. I'd like to see them get another TE and OT on offense and a DT/DE on defense.

Do you think they would consider trading up for Fleener offering Osi and a 7th round pick? Fleener will never make it to 64.
As much as I think it all starts with the OL, we are frightfully thin at RB especially given AB's health concerns which will be there for as long as he plays football. We need more immediate help at RB than we need anywhere and if the pool will be dry or full of so so pick when we draft next then JR did what he had to do and pulled the trigger on a very nice running back who projects to help us immediately one way or another.

I think Wilson was a good decision, I'm looking to make the line in front of him better and we are slim at TE. I know Beckum may be "ready" for the start of the season but that isn't wonderful news as he's really never gotten on track.

GMENAGAIN
04-27-2012, 02:17 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


Terrell Davis</P>


You don't need a dominant running back to win games.</P>


What about games in December and January in the Meadowlands??</P>

lawl
04-27-2012, 02:21 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


Terrell Davis</P>


You don't need a dominant running back to win games.</P>


What about games in December and January in the Meadowlands??</P>

What about them? How'd we do this year? How does green bay do?

FBomb
04-27-2012, 02:21 PM
Ok, I think some of you would love any pick that Reese made, and that doesnt make you wrong or right, or me wrong or right. Its all opinion. </P>


Bottom line is, I feel we could of got a great value RB later in the draft, in means of being productive for our team right now. Ill say it again, I think Wilson could be a great RB for us and hopefully will. But I feel like other RBs could be as well, in the later rounds. Meanwhile there were some nice other players there right now. I think Stephan Hill is going to be a very good WR. I think Upshaw is going to be dominant. </P>


</P>


</P>


lol....yeah, let's just dismiss all the valid arguements and facts thrown at you and write it all off to JR homers!!!</P>


As always, you make me laugh!!</P>


</P>


Facts? I dont see any facts. All I see are opinions. </P>


</P>


oh,I don't know....maybe the FACT that Wilson was the second best RB on the Giants board, was the best RB left after TB jumped ahead of us. The FACT that we were dead last in the running game last season. The FACT that Bradshaw's feet are a mess and misses games. The FACT that it is a position of need.......</P>


I know FACTS is a foreign concept in your world, so as usual I take whose posting into account.[;)]</P>

Husky
04-27-2012, 02:31 PM
The fact that they passed on OL Martin, shows that they didn't "settle." Everyone at ESPN is saying that they wanted the RB, Martin taken at 31, but Mangini said the Giants aren't a team that "settles." He said that perhaps he was the guy they were looking for in that situation.

myles2424
04-27-2012, 02:33 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


Terrell Davis</P>


You don't need a dominant running back to win games.</P>


What about games in December and January in the Meadowlands??</P>


What about them? How'd we do this year? How does green bay do?</P>


Feel free to go hang out at the Green Bay board....</P>


Using them as a example to why somehow running game isnt important is ridiculous....</P>


Thats a whole other breed of offense...</P>


49ers....Ravens...Texans... All tuff running game/Defense...</P>

BlueSanta
04-27-2012, 02:38 PM
Giants have never been big on "late risers" like Martin either. When they say they got their #2 rated RB I completely believe them.

I think Martin is a good player. But, I do not see him being better than Wilson, never did. Prior to the senior bowl nobody did either. Remember, Wilson wasnt at the senior bowl because he was a junior. So people couldnt compare the 2 head to head. Fact is, on the game film and on the stat sheet Wilson produced more, was more consistent doing it, and did it vs bigger competition.

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 02:38 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


Terrell Davis</P>


You don't need a dominant running back to win games.</P>


What about games in December and January in the Meadowlands??</P>

What about them? How'd we do this year? How does green bay do?

We were losing until we started rushing for over 100 yards a game.

And what's with the Green Bay love? We've beat them twice the past two times we've played them in the post season and each time our running attack was a large part of those victories.

Dude make sense.

TroyArcher
04-27-2012, 02:58 PM
When you pick last it is tough. RB is definitely needed. I don't think AB's feet problems will go away and if he is out who runs the ball? If this guy turns out to be a real break away runner it will open the passing game even more. Of course it all remains to be seen. Jerry Reese and Co. have shut me up for now after some of my prior year complaints.

Medisleman
04-27-2012, 03:13 PM
I disagree with you about Nicks and Cruz. Think about it. Since it is a passing league now, doesn't it make more sense to spend your money resigning your best 2 receivers, and save money by drafting your runners? If we draft good quality backs who we don't have to pay highly, then the money can go to receivers.

Makes sense to me!

pino
04-27-2012, 03:15 PM
To tivialize the RB position is just silly to me. Apparently you can win the Super Bowl with a 27th ranked defense, so should we not improve our defense then? Of course you can win without a good RB, but having a good RB makes you that much better.

What happens when conditions don't favor the passing game? What if they are doing a good job at pressuring Eli? Covering our WR's? Having a balanced attack is the best you can hope for in an offense. Look at the Patriots; we pressured Brady and what happened? I bet they wish they had Arian Foster then.

Speaking of the Pats, remember when the Pats had Corey Dillion? He was old but it improved their defense by a large margin (from #17 total offense in 2003, to #7 in 2004 and 2005).

gumby742
04-27-2012, 03:26 PM
To tivialize the RB position is just silly to me. Apparently you can win the Super Bowl with a 27th ranked defense, so should we not improve our defense then? Of course you can win without a good RB, but having a good RB makes you that much better. What happens when conditions don't favor the passing game? What if they are doing a good job at pressuring Eli? Covering our WR's? Having a balanced attack is the best you can hope for in an offense. Look at the Patriots; we pressured Brady and what happened? I bet they wish they had Arian Foster then. Speaking of the Pats, remember when the Pats had Corey Dillion? He was old but it improved their defense by a large margin (from #17 total offense in 2003, to #7 in 2004 and 2005).</P>


I'll take a good oline over a great RB any day of the week.</P>

TrueBlue@NYC
04-27-2012, 04:07 PM
Besides Arian Foster, what DOMINATE RBs were taken after the 3rd round?? Since they're a dime a dozen, I was just curious....</P>


Terrell Davis</P>


You don't need a dominant running back to win games.</P>


What about games in December and January in the Meadowlands??</P>


What about them? How'd we do this year? How does green bay do?</P>


Feel free to go hang out at the Green Bay board....</P>


Using them as a example to why somehow running game isnt important is ridiculous....</P>


Thats a whole other breed of offense...</P>


49ers....Ravens...Texans... All tuff running game/Defense...</P>


</P>


How bout the Giants and Pats this year, or the Saints and Colts in 2009? Or the Cards and Steelers in 2008? </P>


The 2007 Giants were the last top 10 rushing team to be in a SB. </P>


I'm not saying that having a running game isn't important, I believe to win the SB you need at least some balance. But let's not pretend that teams still ride their running games through the playoffs. </P>

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 04:10 PM
How bout the Giants and Pats this year, or the Saints and Colts in 2009? Or the Cards and Steelers in 2008? </P>


The 2007 Giants were the last top 10 rushing team to be in a SB.

Saints had the 6th ranked running game in 2009.

YATittle1962
04-27-2012, 04:12 PM
the title of this thread is one of the biggest myths in pro football

every position is a dime a dozen

the good ones are few and far between......and we got ourselves a damn good football player

lawl
04-27-2012, 04:17 PM
How bout the Giants and Pats this year, or the Saints and Colts in 2009? Or the Cards and Steelers in 2008? </P>


The 2007 Giants were the last top 10 rushing team to be in a SB.

Saints had the 6th ranked running game in 2009. Pierre Thomas lead rusher and Chris ivory

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 04:19 PM
Pierre Thomas lead rusher and Chris ivory

and then they spent a first on Ingram...

Lets not forget they spent a top 5 pick on a HB in Reggie Bush too...

egyptian420
04-27-2012, 04:21 PM
Like I've said before, I was rooting hard for Doug Martin and was devastated when the Bucs snagged him.

However, the more tape I got to watch on this kid the more I love him. Many people already brought up the fact that Bradshaw is never 100%, Scott still has yet to prove himself, and Ware is Ware.

He's got a few things to learn this offseason but I certainly think he can improve the heck out of our run game, and then the Don Eli can handle the rest.

lawl
04-27-2012, 04:22 PM
Pierre Thomas lead rusher and Chris ivory

and then they spent a first on Ingram...

Lets not forget they spent a top 5 pick on a HB in Reggie Bush too...
And Ingram was hurt all year. Bush didn't live up to the hyp
He also had injury problems.

Running backs have the highest propensity to get hurt

They are of no value in my book

CGYgiant
04-27-2012, 04:23 PM
Pierre Thomas lead rusher and Chris ivory

and then they spent a first on Ingram...

Lets not forget they spent a top 5 pick on a HB in Reggie Bush too...
And Ingram was hurt all year. Bush didn't live up to the hyp
He also had injury problems.

Running backs have the highest propensity to get hurt

They are of no value in my book

OK we get it. You dont like the pick, cant you say it and just stop?

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 04:24 PM
They are of no value in my book

well all the teams in the league seem to disagree, apart from the eagles and packers.

TrueBlue@NYC
04-27-2012, 04:27 PM
Pierre Thomas lead rusher and Chris ivory and then they spent a first on Ingram... Lets not forget they spent a top 5 pick on a HB in Reggie Bush too...</P>


That's correct, I stand corrected. Still that's 8 of the 10 SB participants not having a top 10 running game. That's a pretty significant number there. </P>


</P>

lawl
04-27-2012, 04:27 PM
They are of no value in my book

well all the teams in the league seem to disagree, apart from the eagles and packers.

Balt, SF etc

lawl
04-27-2012, 04:31 PM
Pierre Thomas lead rusher and Chris ivory

and then they spent a first on Ingram...

Lets not forget they spent a top 5 pick on a HB in Reggie Bush too...
And Ingram was hurt all year. Bush didn't live up to the hyp
He also had injury problems.

Running backs have the highest propensity to get hurt

They are of no value in my book

OK we get it. You dont like the pick, cant you say it and just stop?
sure

YATittle1962
04-27-2012, 04:32 PM
awesome pick

period

he will be our #1 back by seasons end

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 04:32 PM
Balt, SF etc

Balt took Jamal Lewis 5th overall in 2000. It was awhile ago, but they have had some good HBs they found in mid rounds since then fortunately for them.

We will see what some of these teams like GB, SF, etc do when they are struggling to find production at the position.

TrueBlue@NYC
04-27-2012, 04:33 PM
They are of no value in my book well all the teams in the league seem to disagree, apart from the eagles and packers.</P>


What are you basing this off of? You's drafted a RB in the 1st two rounds over the past 5 -6 years? </P>


Just look at how quickly teams are ready to let go of RBs' with even the slightest hint of decline vs. how readily teams are willing to go after injured players at other positions and you can see that teams also believe they can easily find RB talent. </P>


</P>

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 04:36 PM
What are you basing this off of? You's drafted a RB in the 1st two rounds over the past 5 -6 years?

yep. if it was not a position of value, teams wouldnt be taking them in the first or 2nd rounds.

As for them having a shorter career, i would agree with that, but does that make the position less valuable? I dont think so, I think it almost makes it more valuable as it becomes a position that you need to fill more often.

byron
04-27-2012, 04:41 PM
What are you basing this off of? You's drafted a RB in the 1st two rounds over the past 5 -6 years? yep. if it was not a position of value, teams wouldnt be taking them in the first or 2nd rounds. As for them having a shorter career, i would agree with that, but does that make the position less valuable? I dont think so, I think it almost makes it more valuable as it becomes a position that you need to fill more often.and under the new cba its far more afordable to sign these rooks

illmaticzeke
04-27-2012, 04:41 PM
Personally for me, I would have rather grabbed Hill or upshaw with that pick and went after Lamichael James later on......but again, it's all speculation...I trust in Jerry...but the pick suprised me.

pino
04-27-2012, 04:42 PM
To tivialize the RB position is just silly to me. Apparently you can win the Super Bowl with a 27th ranked defense, so should we not improve our defense then? Of course you can win without a good RB, but having a good RB makes you that much better. What happens when conditions don't favor the passing game? What if they are doing a good job at pressuring Eli? Covering our WR's? Having a balanced attack is the best you can hope for in an offense. Look at the Patriots; we pressured Brady and what happened? I bet they wish they had Arian Foster then. Speaking of the Pats, remember when the Pats had Corey Dillion? He was old but it improved their defense by a large margin (from #17 total offense in 2003, to #7 in 2004 and 2005).</P>


I'll take a good oline over a great RB any day of the week.</P>

So would I. But apparently the Giants felt Wilson couldn't be passed up.

illmaticzeke
04-27-2012, 04:42 PM
I guess it's time for a new quote for me also!!! ;)

illmaticzeke
04-27-2012, 04:54 PM
But like I said, the pick suprised me.......I def thought we were taking Hill, Upshaw or even Fleener.....I would have liked to try and pick up Lamichael James later on...I think he is more of a power back and fills that Jacobs role a bit better....but again, it's just my opinion and everything is all speculation, we have no idea what will happen with any of these picks from any of these teams.

ralphpal
04-27-2012, 05:58 PM
I think he also returns kicks and punts . thats worth atleast one win right there . Getting more than 1 yrd on a punt return . Just the threat or him breaking one might get us better field postion .

Toadofsteel
04-27-2012, 06:03 PM
I think he also returns kicks and punts . thats worth atleast one win right there . Getting more than 1 yrd on a punt return . Just the threat or him breaking one might get us better field postion .

Not to mention if he starts getting touchdowns on special teams. You might see teams going for it on 4th and short at midfield because of this guy...

TheAnalyst
11-13-2012, 02:58 PM
Here is that thread.

David Wilson "needs to grow up"??? Sounds to me like we may have swung and missed. Too early to tell, but RBs are in fact a dime a dozen unless you get the Petersons or Richardsons in the top 10. This team would be thrilled to have Doug Martin over David Wilson right about now. Look at all the other RBs taken late as well, the Skins for example have a 6th round rookie who looks like a first round draft pick.

joemorrisforprez
11-13-2012, 05:04 PM
Here is that thread.

David Wilson "needs to grow up"??? Sounds to me like we may have swung and missed. Too early to tell, but RBs are in fact a dime a dozen unless you get the Petersons or Richardsons in the top 10. This team would be thrilled to have Doug Martin over David Wilson right about now. Look at all the other RBs taken late as well, the Skins for example have a 6th round rookie who looks like a first round draft pick.

It's very common for early round running backs to get a chance to produce immediately.

The Giants don't follow that trend, apparently. Doug Martin would be on the bench right now if the Giants selected him instead of Wilson.

TheEnigma
11-13-2012, 05:08 PM
Gmenagain was banned? Surprised it took this long lol.

Cloud57
11-13-2012, 05:40 PM
RB coach Jerald Ingram on running game progress

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/RB_coach_Jerald_Ingram_on_running_game_progress/75f1fdbe-439b-4ae1-9b44-6d77ecbee216

TheAnalyst
11-13-2012, 08:18 PM
It's very common for early round running backs to get a chance to produce immediately.The Giants don't follow that trend, apparently. Doug Martin would be on the bench right now if the Giants selected him instead of Wilson.Doug Martin would not be sitting on the bench right now if he was here. He would be our best running back. He was more NFL ready then Wilson. A lot more.

ELI_HOF_NYG
11-13-2012, 11:35 PM
I'm tired of hearing that. No offense to you personally, just in general. RB's are definitely not a dime a dozen. Unless of course you mean 3rd/4th string RB's...

As far as the Bucs go I like Wilson better than Martin myself.

I think he means they are easier to find than most positions which is true I guess.

TheShouldersOf
11-14-2012, 03:22 AM
As a Running Back, one who has played this position and continues to do so, no they are not

maybe an average back, but an elite game changing back, no not a "Dime a dozen"

TheAnalyst
11-14-2012, 10:10 AM
As a Running Back, one who has played this position and continues to do so, no they are not

maybe an average back, but an elite game changing back, no not a "Dime a dozen"

Thats what the post says. The elite backs like Peterson are not a dime a dozen. Those backs come once in a while and I feel Trent Richardson is another back like that. But how many SBs have these back won? RBs are a dime a dozen. Not to knock their talents, but without an oline opening holes, no running back (maybe outside Barry Sanders) will look good. Look what the Giants did with Derrick Ward behind a solid oline. They made him a great running back in 2008. Then he left and wasn't even half the running back he was here. This happens all the time. It is mostly the Oline controlling which RBs are good and which aren't, with the obvious exception of the best in the league.

Look at Shady McCoy this year to last. Last year he was on top of the NFL. This year with no Oline, he is struggling mightily. Get Wilson (1st round pick) a great Oline and he will shine. Get Brown (4th round pick) a great Oline and he will shine. Get Bradshaw (7th round pick) a great oline and he will shine. Get Ward (UDFA) a solid oline and he will shine. Get (Insert quality RB here) a solid Oline and he will shine. Oline controls a RBs success more then RBs controlling the Olines success.

Look what Pittsburgh is doing. Mendenhall, Dwyer, Redman, Rainey... who ever. They all look good because the Oline is opening holes and pushing DLs back.

TheAnalyst
09-19-2013, 12:06 PM
Unfortunately bumb on this guy.... Wilson still proving me right. Dime a dozen is the RB these days.

joemorrisforprez
09-19-2013, 12:15 PM
I am not thrilled with this pick at all. I wasn't thrilled with JPP though either, so, really it doesnt mean much. </P>


BUT</P>


Running backs are a dime a dozen. The only one I would of taken is Richardson. After that, it is too deep to get one in the first. </P>


Im not saying Wilson will be bad or a bust by anymeans, but I feel we reached. I feel we were hoping Doug Martin was thereand the Bucs straight up smacked us in the nose by trading right in front of us and snagging him. </P>


And I want to go on record and say that Courtney Upshaw is going to be a probowler for years to come. Watching this guy play, he could do it all. Rush the passer, play LB, ect. Reminds me of when DeMeco Ryans slipped. Upshaw will be better then Ryans, who won the DROY and has been to multiple probowls. </P>


I would of rather taken someone to replace MM like Stephan Hill. It's a passing league now. We dont run the ball as much as we used to. And it netted us a 2nd SB in 4 years. Nicks and Cruz willnot both be resigned.</P>


Our Oline was one of the worst for run blocking in the NFL. That isnt going to change much. Id almost rather we rebuild the Oline. Cordy Glenn, Konz, Adams...The trenches. </P>


Anyway, I dont agree with the pick, but Reese is the man so I guess we will see what his game plan is. I guess I am just a little sour because the Bucs made us look bad too. </P>


I'm fine with Wilson, but I understand your point.

Alot of these "stud" runningbacks were simply the product of dominating college lines. Ron Dayne is a perfect example.

I would much rather focus on the offensive line for our early draft picks.

Pugh was a good start. Reese needs to go back to that next year as well.

Drafting statistics (see draftmetrics.com) support that offensive lineman have the best rookie/3 year/5 year starting percentage of any positional group. Also, they tend to be able to slide across to other positions well (i.e., a tackle can convert to guard, center, etc).

The stats also show that there is a huge difference between guys taken in the top 75 picks, and guys taken thereafter. So this notion that Reese can address pressing needs in the later rounds is really just betting on Vegas odds - sometime it works (e.g., Ahmad Bradshaw), but most often, these guys are just roster filler until a better player is available the following year.

I think 2 things are true:

#1 - Reese needs to help repair this line. Boothe is okay. Baas, Snee, and Diehl have declining shelf lives. The guys backing up the starters just aren't that good.

#2 - Reese needs to hit on his first two rounds. He can't afford drafting guys that can't start quickly and play well.

The late rounds are for backups, and for rolling the dice on players......it's not a strategy that will build a team's foundation, nor address roster weak spots (OL, LB).

TheAnalyst
09-19-2013, 12:53 PM
I'm fine with Wilson, but I understand your point.

Alot of these "stud" runningbacks were simply the product of dominating college lines. Ron Dayne is a perfect example.

I would much rather focus on the offensive line for our early draft picks.

Pugh was a good start. Reese needs to go back to that next year as well.

Drafting statistics (see draftmetrics.com) support that offensive lineman have the best rookie/3 year/5 year starting percentage of any positional group. Also, they tend to be able to slide across to other positions well (i.e., a tackle can convert to guard, center, etc).

The stats also show that there is a huge difference between guys taken in the top 75 picks, and guys taken thereafter. So this notion that Reese can address pressing needs in the later rounds is really just betting on Vegas odds - sometime it works (e.g., Ahmad Bradshaw), but most often, these guys are just roster filler until a better player is available the following year.

I think 2 things are true:

#1 - Reese needs to help repair this line. Boothe is okay. Baas, Snee, and Diehl have declining shelf lives. The guys backing up the starters just aren't that good.

#2 - Reese needs to hit on his first two rounds. He can't afford drafting guys that can't start quickly and play well.

The late rounds are for backups, and for rolling the dice on players......it's not a strategy that will build a team's foundation, nor address roster weak spots (OL, LB).

Building the OL has to be top of the priority list. But it was top mine for a while. Reese just found out before last draft and even then I dont think he realized how bad it has decayed. Snee and Baas are out next. Diehl is done already. Boothe is on a 1 year. Before that we took a huge hit losing Seubert and OHara.

gumby74
09-19-2013, 01:36 PM
Building the OL has to be top of the priority list. But it was top mine for a while. Reese just found out before last draft and even then I dont think he realized how bad it has decayed. Snee and Baas are out next. Diehl is done already. Boothe is on a 1 year. Before that we took a huge hit losing Seubert and OHara.

Our OL is going to be hurting for a while. We're wasting away Eli's "prime" years. Although the way he's been playing, he may have already hit his prime and is on the downtown.

joemorrisforprez
09-19-2013, 01:46 PM
Building the OL has to be top of the priority list. But it was top mine for a while. Reese just found out before last draft and even then I dont think he realized how bad it has decayed. Snee and Baas are out next. Diehl is done already. Boothe is on a 1 year. Before that we took a huge hit losing Seubert and OHara.


Our OL is going to be hurting for a while. We're wasting away Eli's "prime" years. Although the way he's been playing, he may have already hit his prime and is on the downtown.

I agree with both you guys.

That's why it can't be some 5th or 6th round development project. It needs to be a high pick that can start as a rookie.....another guy like Pugh (1st) , or Snee (2nd). Beatty was a 2nd as well....and fortunately for him, when he was drafted (2009), the line was still in good shape. That luxury is gone.

Reese gambled that some late round guys would eventually develop. Unfortunately, the veterans are starting to slide sharply, and guys like Petrus, Whimper, Mosley, Brewer, etc simply have not filled the ranks.

I'm totally cool with rolling the dice with runningbacks, receivers, and other positions late in the draft. But that's not how you build the foundation.

San Francisco went heavy on the OL in the early rounds of 2010, and tranformed from an 8-8 squad to an NFC powerhouse.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/4/25/1442899/2010-nfl-draft-grades-a-brief-look

TheAnalyst
09-19-2013, 01:57 PM
Exactly. Build the trenches.

joemorrisforprez
09-19-2013, 02:04 PM
Exactly. Build the trenches.

I remember watching the Packers/Niners NFCCG.....the 49ers offensive line simply outmatched the Packers D, and there wasn't a thing Aaron Rodgers could do about that matchup.

jomo
09-19-2013, 02:09 PM
Running backs ARE a dime a dozen but good offensive linemen aren't.

This is not late breaking news. Our FO has fumbled the opportunity and obligation to remake the OL over the last 4 years.
Just think of it, we keep guys like Petrus, Capers and Brewer hanging around in developmental mode. Was it not obvious to the coaches that these two and others in our reserves didn't have what it takes to be a top OL?

Now, I don't know what we can do near term.

YATittle1962
09-19-2013, 02:55 PM
reading my posts in this thread made me really sad

I remember how excited I was to have David Wilson based on what I saw of him in college

....I am no longer excited and am quickly reminded that some players just don't transition well

TheAnalyst
09-19-2013, 03:27 PM
reading my posts in this thread made me really sad

I remember how excited I was to have David Wilson based on what I saw of him in college

....I am no longer excited and am quickly reminded that some players just don't transition well

You aren;t the only one. There were a few on here basically yelling at me that it is a great pick and RBs are not a dime a dozen.

TheAnalyst
09-19-2013, 03:35 PM
Ok, I think some of you would love any pick that Reese made, and that doesnt make you wrong or right, or me wrong or right. Its all opinion. </P>


Bottom line is, I feel we could of got a great value RB later in the draft, in means of being productive for our team right now. Ill say it again, I think Wilson could be a great RB for us and hopefully will. But I feel like other RBs could be as well, in the later rounds. Meanwhile there were some nice other players there right now. I think Stephan Hill is going to be a very good WR. I think Upshaw is going to be dominant. </P>


</P>


</P>


lol....yeah, let's just dismiss all the valid arguements and facts thrown at you and write it all off to JR homers!!!</P>


As always, you make me laugh!!</P>

Damn FBomb got owned on this thread.

GameTime
09-19-2013, 03:41 PM
reading my posts in this thread made me really sad

I remember how excited I was to have David Wilson based on what I saw of him in college

....I am no longer excited and am quickly reminded that some players just don't transition well
not convinced he wont transition yet.

TheAnalyst
09-19-2013, 03:44 PM
not convinced he wont transition yet.

He has a long way to go. In fact, he looks more lost this year then last. And he has 2x as many fumbles.

TheAnalyst
10-11-2013, 07:53 AM
Jacobs comes in and is 100x better then Wilson.

NorwoodBlue
10-11-2013, 08:32 AM
Jacobs looked like he was back in his third year or something. He was running harder than he's run in a while and on a couple of plays he looked faster than I ever remember him.

Good running backs aren't a dime a dozen. Good lines make running backs look like they're dime a dozen; but last night Brandon showed how he could lift the team.

gumby74
10-11-2013, 09:42 AM
Jacobs comes in and is 100x better then Wilson.

Seriously. Make you wonder about Wilson ...

slipknottin
10-11-2013, 09:44 AM
Jacobs comes in and is 100x better then Wilson.

If Wilson was playing he would have had like 300 yards. Wilson 1 on 1 with a safety Wilson wins that matchup a lot. Jacobs never won that matchup

gumby74
10-11-2013, 09:47 AM
If Wilson was playing he would have had like 300 yards. Wilson 1 on 1 with a safety Wilson wins that matchup a lot. Jacobs never won that matchup

Not sure about that. I don't think anyone is questioning Wilson's open field ability. I'm questioning his ability to pick his spots to turn up and go. It seems like half the time he's running around like a chicken with its head cut off. He looks confused out there.

Flip Empty
10-11-2013, 09:47 AM
That Chicago front is pitiful - they've been hit hard by the injury bug so I wouldn't put too much stock in Jacobs' performance. He was good, yes, but I'd need to see it vs a good front before believing this is some sort of renaissance.

He did show good fight, which was nice.

slipknottin
10-11-2013, 09:48 AM
Not sure about that. I don't think anyone is questioning Wilson's open field ability. I'm questioning his ability to pick his spots to turn up and go. It seems like half the time he's running around like a chicken with its head cut off. He looks confused out there.

I thought he was looking pretty good with that in preseason.

But he hasent had blocking like Jacobs had, either.

TheAnalyst
10-11-2013, 10:18 AM
If Wilson was playing he would have had like 300 yards. Wilson 1 on 1 with a safety Wilson wins that matchup a lot. Jacobs never won that matchup

No. Wrong. Wilson can not truck people like Jacobs. Did you see him get that 1st TD? No way Wilson even sees that. Wilson would get knocked back and lose yards.

tdawg1413
10-11-2013, 10:21 AM
I thought he was looking pretty good with that in preseason.

But he hasent had blocking like Jacobs had, either.

Agreed, on the first Jacobs run in the first quarter, Wilson would have scored about an 85 yard TD. Jacobs got 15 yards running through a hole I could have gotten through. Wilson has ability. He is 22 years old people! Jesus

Flip Empty
10-11-2013, 10:24 AM
No. Wrong. Wilson can not truck people like Jacobs. Did you see him get that 1st TD? No way Wilson even sees that. Wilson would get knocked back and lose yards.
Who needs to truck anyone when you can break through a gaping chasm for a long touchdown?

gumby74
10-11-2013, 10:32 AM
Not sure about that. I don't think anyone is questioning Wilson's open field ability. I'm questioning his ability to pick his spots to turn up and go. It seems like half the time he's running around like a chicken with its head cut off. He looks confused out there.


I thought he was looking pretty good with that in preseason.

But he hasent had blocking like Jacobs had, either.

Yeah, but Jacobs comes in and stuff automatically opens up? Something isn't right. Alot of those runs Jacobs had for minimal yardage, I'll bet you Wilson tries to bounce it outside and ends up losing yardage instead. On some of Wilson's runs, he had creases to run through - small, but lanes none the less. He could have easily picked up a good 3 yards. But, instead he goes around it and gets stopped for 0 gain.

Toadofsteel
10-11-2013, 10:37 AM
I agree with both you guys.

That's why it can't be some 5th or 6th round development project. It needs to be a high pick that can start as a rookie.....another guy like Pugh (1st) , or Snee (2nd). Beatty was a 2nd as well....and fortunately for him, when he was drafted (2009), the line was still in good shape. That luxury is gone.

Reese gambled that some late round guys would eventually develop. Unfortunately, the veterans are starting to slide sharply, and guys like Petrus, Whimper, Mosley, Brewer, etc simply have not filled the ranks.

I'm totally cool with rolling the dice with runningbacks, receivers, and other positions late in the draft. But that's not how you build the foundation.

San Francisco went heavy on the OL in the early rounds of 2010, and tranformed from an 8-8 squad to an NFC powerhouse.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/4/25/1442899/2010-nfl-draft-grades-a-brief-look

All this about the OL is absolutely right. Honestly I think OL is the greatest concern we have on offense, and equaled only by LB overall (although if Beason continues to play well, now LB is less of a concern). Also, having an OL that can actually be road graders in the run game AND pass protect means we could do this stick in RB off the street thing and still get yardage.

If we don't spend at least 2 early picks on OL (in the first 3 rounds), I will be disappointed to say the least. If we get a top 5 pick we should trade down for more picks too...