PDA

View Full Version : Wilson led the COuntry in Yards after contact



juice33s
04-27-2012, 04:40 PM
Yes even more yards after contact then <a>trent Richardson (http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/04/16/david-wilson-more-powerful-than-trent-richardson/)</a>

"Little known fact: David Wilson had more yards after contact than
any runner in the country. According to STATS X-Info, Wilson had 990
yards after contact last season, or 267 more yards than Richardson, who
was seventh in the country. The X-Info is being used by several teams in
preparation for the draft as part of the ICE system, a personnel
management and player evaluation system."

I Bleed Blue 56
04-27-2012, 05:07 PM
Hope the people who thought this was a bad pick reads this.

buddy33
04-27-2012, 05:09 PM
Oh but so many are saying he is to small and only a complimentary back.

YATittle1962
04-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Hope the people who thought this was a bad pick reads this.

I for the life of me cannot think of one reason to consider this a bad pick

thats ridiculous

this kid was born to play Giant football

buddy33
04-27-2012, 05:19 PM
Hope the people who thought this was a bad pick reads this.

I for the life of me cannot think of one reason to consider this a bad pick

thats ridiculous

this kid was born to play Giant football

I agree. He runs hard like Bradshaw but is faster. If they get the OL working again he will be a huge asset.

egyptian420
04-27-2012, 05:25 PM
Hope the people who thought this was a bad pick reads this.

I for the life of me cannot think of one reason to consider this a bad pick

thats ridiculous

this kid was born to play Giant football

I agree. He runs hard like Bradshaw but is faster. If they get the OL working again he will be a huge asset.
+1....I hope we solidify that O-line. Either with tonight's 2nd round pick or from FA. If not, then I pray Brewer or someone else in camp has shown them something.

Spizi
04-27-2012, 05:28 PM
This is why despite our obvious line issues, Wilson is still a great pick. He can turn a 5 yard loss into a 80 yard touchdown. He doesn't need a big hole, all you need is a little crease and he's gone. The Giants had 4 total runs over 20 yards last year because Bradshaw and Jacobs can't make that second guy miss. Wilson can make the whole defense miss.

GMENAGAIN
04-27-2012, 05:29 PM
That is an excellent stat

juice33s
04-27-2012, 05:33 PM
The guy might be the most fiery player (Both on the field and in the locker room) in the entire draft...check out this pre game speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bO123KOEM)
"I'll die for my country, I'll die for all you all!"

The guy plays angry, I love it

repeatchamps
04-27-2012, 05:40 PM
The guy might be the most fiery player (Both on the field and in the locker room) in the entire draft...check out this pre game speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bO123KOEM)
"I'll die for my country, I'll die for all you all!"

The guy plays angry, I love it
</P>


Even more reason to love this pick. When they lost Jacobs they lost a little of that fieriness Brandon brought to the table, this guy gives you that and then some.</P>

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 05:45 PM
2nd in nation in YPC, YPG
Track star standout
Led all RB's in 4 of the 6 combine drills (even tho he had lil less than 2 weeks to train for it bc of strep throat)
ACC player of year
2nd team all american

imo, this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson, guy is 100% talent, athleticism, speed, and agility with power bc of his leg drive

he's gonna be the real deal, watch him be the best rb from this class

GMenNY21
04-27-2012, 05:46 PM
The guy might be the most fiery player (Both on the field and in the locker room) in the entire draft...check out this pre game speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bO123KOEM)
"I'll die for my country, I'll die for all you all!"

The guy plays angry, I love it
Him &amp; Bradshaw should get along great.. very similar

slipknottin
04-27-2012, 05:46 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

DownWitJPP
04-27-2012, 05:48 PM
the first time this kid breaks a 90 yd run their all gonna be like " I knew this kid was gonna be a star" just like they did with JPP

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 05:48 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

nevada11
04-27-2012, 05:50 PM
imo, this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

WTF? LMAO

TheEnigma
04-27-2012, 05:50 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for uThat's actually not farfetched honestly with his physical attributes but he also has the same chance to bust if he can't change his running style.

nevada11
04-27-2012, 05:52 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for uThat's actually not farfetched honestly with his physical attributes but he also has the same chance to bust if he can't change his running style.]

yea.

ive been trying to argue against guys like sportzfan who stupidly believe martin is a better prospect than wilson

but i am not that big of a wilson fan to say he can better than richardson. can we wait until this guy can fix his fumble issues?

Spizi
04-27-2012, 05:53 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 05:54 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for uThat's actually not farfetched honestly with his physical attributes but he also has the same chance to bust if he can't change his running style.]

yea.

ive been trying to argue against guys like sportzfan who stupidly believe martin is a better prospect than wilson

but i am not that big of a wilson fan to say he can better than richardson. can we wait until this guy can fix his fumble issues?

u can wait and do whatever the hell you want, except look for any of my posts to go LOL for some reason...

i think he has a higher ceiling than richardson, imo richardson has already shown his peak, i dont see his game getting better, not to say he isn't great, just my opinion. Jim Brown also felt the same way, which is why i started to rethink it...

nevada11
04-27-2012, 05:55 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

Toadofsteel
04-27-2012, 05:55 PM
The guy might be the most fiery player (Both on the field and in the locker room) in the entire draft...check out this pre game speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bO123KOEM)
"I'll die for my country, I'll die for all you all!"

The guy plays angry, I love it
</P>


Even more reason to love this pick. When they lost Jacobs they lost a little of that fieriness Brandon brought to the table, this guy gives you that and then some.</P>

He's basically Jacobs in Tiki's body, but stronger, faster, better than he was before...

Not to mention he's got the workmanship that TC loves so much.

Jacobs was a 285 pound back that ran like he was 185 pounds. I think the reverse is going to be true for this guy...

TheEnigma
04-27-2012, 05:56 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for uThat's actually not farfetched honestly with his physical attributes but he also has the same chance to bust if he can't change his running style.]

yea.

ive been trying to argue against guys like sportzfan who stupidly believe martin is a better prospect than wilson

but i am not that big of a wilson fan to say he can better than richardson. can we wait until this guy can fix his fumble issues?For sure man. Martin is better coming out as of today but Wilson has everything he needs to be better. This kid needs to work on his pass protection, ball security, and dance less in the backfield and just take 2-3 yards. I see him as a bigger boom or bust prospect than Richardson or Martin but the boom is promising.

Strife21
04-27-2012, 05:57 PM
When is the last time we have had someone with break away speed like this? Even Tiki got caught from behind most of the time. Jacobs and Bradshaw most of the time get caught 30 yds down the field as well.

This kid looks like a burner and with Bradshaw constantly having broken feet every year, I think this was a good move the more I think about it.

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 05:58 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

ok everyone, nevada has spoken. no need to have a seperate opinion, nevada knows all...lmfao

nevada11
04-27-2012, 06:03 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for uThat's actually not farfetched honestly with his physical attributes but he also has the same chance to bust if he can't change his running style.]

yea.

ive been trying to argue against guys like sportzfan who stupidly believe martin is a better prospect than wilson

but i am not that big of a wilson fan to say he can better than richardson. can we wait until this guy can fix his fumble issues?For sure man. Martin is better coming out as of today but Wilson has everything he needs to be better. This kid needs to work on his pass protection, ball security, and dance less in the backfield and just take 2-3 yards. I see him as a bigger boom or bust prospect than Richardson or Martin but the boom is promising.

Yeah ive defended wilson a lot. He'll need to adjust his style and develop better instincts. Could be improved, maybe not. Well see

Richardson is just special. Has the ceiling to be a hall of fame, all-pro RB that will make the pro bowl for years and years to come. Wilson can be a great, home-run complementary back. Maybe jamal charles but not all-pro boom like richardson

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 06:05 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for uThat's actually not farfetched honestly with his physical attributes but he also has the same chance to bust if he can't change his running style.]

yea.

ive been trying to argue against guys like sportzfan who stupidly believe martin is a better prospect than wilson

but i am not that big of a wilson fan to say he can better than richardson. can we wait until this guy can fix his fumble issues?For sure man. Martin is better coming out as of today but Wilson has everything he needs to be better. This kid needs to work on his pass protection, ball security, and dance less in the backfield and just take 2-3 yards. I see him as a bigger boom or bust prospect than Richardson or Martin but the boom is promising.

Yeah ive defended wilson a lot. He'll need to adjust his style and develop better instincts. Could be improved, maybe not. Well see

Richardson is just special. Has the ceiling to be a hall of fame, all-pro RB that will make the pro bowl for years and years to come. Wilson can be a great, home-run complementary back. Maybe jamal charles but not all-pro boom like richardson

lmfao. thanks for clearing that up. maybe you should quit ur job at mcdonalds and go be a scout, or play the lotto...u know all. thread can end now, nevada has spoken.

miked1958
04-27-2012, 06:08 PM
Yes even more yards after contact then <a>trent Richardson (http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/04/16/david-wilson-more-powerful-than-trent-richardson/)</a>

"Little known fact: David Wilson had more yards after contact than
any runner in the country. According to STATS X-Info, Wilson had 990
yards after contact last season, or 267 more yards than Richardson, who
was seventh in the country. The X-Info is being used by several teams in
preparation for the draft as part of the ICE system, a personnel
management and player evaluation system."
To be fair you can't compare the ACC defenses to the ones Trent was going up against in the SEC. Huge difference. Look how many National Titles in a row they have one. Florida, LSU, Florida, Alabama, Auburn and Alabama again. So 6 is it? Did I miss any. That is from 06 I believe. Also skip a year and go back to 04 and LSU won another.

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 06:12 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

You could make the arguement that Richardson has peaked while WIlson hasn't.

And Richardson has injury issues.

And I don't think it's a stretch to believe Dave Wilson might enjoy more success with the Giants than Richardson will with the Browns.

Having said that, I wouldn't compare any backs at this point from an NFL standpoint. College backs and draft status is a projection in probability ... nothing more.

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 06:14 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

You could make the arguement that Richardson has peaked while WIlson hasn't.

And Richardson has injury issues.

And I don't think it's a stretch to believe Dave Wilson might enjoy more success with the Giants than Richardson will with the Browns.

Having said that, I wouldn't compare any backs at this point from an NFL standpoint. College backs and draft status is a projection in probability ... nothing more.

krunch, i think u missed it. Nevada already pegged both Wilson and Richardson, nevada knows all its already written in stone, Richardson is an all pro HOF and Wilson could be like Ryan Williams...apparently he found it funny to think Wilson has a higher ceiling...

and i agree with ur post, thats exactly the argument i made...

nevada11
04-27-2012, 06:15 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

You could make the arguement that Richardson has peaked while WIlson hasn't.

And Richardson has injury issues.

And I don't think it's a stretch to believe Dave Wilson might enjoy more success with the Giants than Richardson will with the Browns.

Having said that, I wouldn't compare any backs at this point from an NFL standpoint. College backs and draft status is a projection in probability ... nothing more.

well this so called "peak" was worthy of the 4th pick of the draft and called by greg cosell "the best player in the draft" and has been called by many the best back since AP

A damn fine peak.

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 06:16 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

You could make the arguement that Richardson has peaked while WIlson hasn't.

And Richardson has injury issues.

And I don't think it's a stretch to believe Dave Wilson might enjoy more success with the Giants than Richardson will with the Browns.

Having said that, I wouldn't compare any backs at this point from an NFL standpoint. College backs and draft status is a projection in probability ... nothing more.

well this so called "peak" was worthy of the 4th pick of the draft and called by greg cosell "the best player in the draft" and has been called by many the best back since AP

A damn fine peak.

LMAO

yelberton
04-27-2012, 06:20 PM
Wilson will be to the backfield what Cruz is to receivers. Also, he can return punts (nobody runs back kickoffs any more). With Hixson's injury history, Wilson is a quality pick. And for all the haters ... the real draft begins tonight.

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 06:24 PM
Wilson will be to the backfield what Cruz is to receivers.* Also, he can return punts (nobody runs back kickoffs any more).* With Hixson's injury history, Wilson is a quality pick.* And for all the haters ... the real draft begins tonight.*


does ryan williams return kicks? apparently, wilsons career has already been pegged so unless ryan willliams returns kicks, neither will wilson

eastbayblue
04-27-2012, 06:27 PM
This guy is the next Darren Sproles, bank it!

Kruunch
04-27-2012, 06:29 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

You could make the arguement that Richardson has peaked while WIlson hasn't.

And Richardson has injury issues.

And I don't think it's a stretch to believe Dave Wilson might enjoy more success with the Giants than Richardson will with the Browns.

Having said that, I wouldn't compare any backs at this point from an NFL standpoint. College backs and draft status is a projection in probability ... nothing more.

well this so called "peak" was worthy of the 4th pick of the draft and called by greg cosell "the best player in the draft" and has been called by many the best back since AP

A damn fine peak.

I've heard that about every #1 rated running back in every draft.

North/south runners have to be durable more then anything ... Richardson isn't especially durable.

And top rated anybodies tend not to fulfill the hype historically speaking.

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 06:30 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

You could make the arguement that Richardson has peaked while WIlson hasn't.

And Richardson has injury issues.

And I don't think it's a stretch to believe Dave Wilson might enjoy more success with the Giants than Richardson will with the Browns.

Having said that, I wouldn't compare any backs at this point from an NFL standpoint. College backs and draft status is a projection in probability ... nothing more.

well this so called "peak" was worthy of the 4th pick of the draft and called by greg cosell "the best player in the draft" and has been called by many the best back since AP

A damn fine peak.

I've heard that about every #1 rated running back in every draft.

North/south runners have to be durable more then anything ... Richardson isn't especially durable.

And top rated anybodies tend not to fulfill the hype historically speaking.

agree completely

nevada11
04-27-2012, 06:33 PM
I've heard that about every #1 rated running back in every draft.

i do not remember cj spiller getting praised like this. people liked ingram but kept knocking him for his lack of speed. mcfadden had questions from greg cosell and mike mayock about going down too easily.. greg cosell actually HATED mcfadden as a prospect

no RB has gotten this much praise out of the draft in a long time.

juice33s
04-27-2012, 06:51 PM
<font size="4">2nd in nation in YPC, YPG</font>
Track star standout
<font size="4">Led all RB's in 4 of the 6 combine drills</font> (even tho he had lil less than 2 weeks to train for it bc of strep throat)
<font size="4">ACC player of year
2nd team all american</font>

imo, this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson, guy is 100% talent, athleticism, speed, and agility with power bc of his leg drive

he's gonna be the real deal, watch him be the best rb from this class
Really is a fantastic addition to our roster. He produced at the highest level and has an elite physical skill set to back it up...why so many people have a problem with this pick is beyond me

jomo
04-27-2012, 06:52 PM
You can see that he excels in this area by watching his film.

miked1958
04-27-2012, 06:53 PM
This guy is the next Darren Sproles, bank it!I said the same thing in another thread

miked1958
04-27-2012, 06:54 PM
I've heard that about every #1 rated running back in every draft.

i do not remember cj spiller getting praised like this. people liked ingram but kept knocking him for his lack of speed. mcfadden had questions from greg cosell and mike mayock about going down too easily.. greg cosell actually HATED mcfadden as a prospect

no RB has gotten this much praise out of the draft in a long time.Completely agree on allcounts

giantsfan420
04-27-2012, 07:05 PM
<font size="4">2nd in nation in YPC, YPG</font>
Track star standout
<font size="4">Led all RB's in 4 of the 6 combine drills</font> (even tho he had lil less than 2 weeks to train for it bc of strep throat)
<font size="4">ACC player of year
2nd team all american</font>

imo, this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson, guy is 100% talent, athleticism, speed, and agility with power bc of his leg drive

he's gonna be the real deal, watch him be the best rb from this class
Really is a fantastic addition to our roster. He produced at the highest level and has an elite physical skill set to back it up...why so many people have a problem with this pick is beyond me


i agree, and it gets to the point, admittedly with immature depressed mcdonalds employees, that when someone states their opinion that wilson has the highest cieling of any rb in this class, they'll do the "WTF. LMAO" spiel...kinda pathetic really.

he gives our offense a new dimension that defenses HAVE to account for. a good example, week 17 vs Dallas, Dallas had an issue lining up on d, eli saw it, audibled the run to the weakness in the d, and bradshaw had a GAPING hole and daylight towards the endzone...he picked up 25 before being caught and tackled...wilson takes that all the way

i was on the fence when the pick was made bc i thought we could get l.miller in the 2nd, but the way the draft played out with martin going 31, that l.miller wasnt gonna be there at 64, and then i checked wilson out more than i had predraft...im 100% stoked on this pick,,,

edit- and just for the record, richardson couldnt beat out ingram when both were at alabama, and jim brown doesnt believe richardson is gonna be half the player his hype is

Spizi
04-27-2012, 07:19 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

You could make the arguement that Richardson has peaked while WIlson hasn't.

And Richardson has injury issues.

And I don't think it's a stretch to believe Dave Wilson might enjoy more success with the Giants than Richardson will with the Browns.

Having said that, I wouldn't compare any backs at this point from an NFL standpoint. College backs and draft status is a projection in probability ... nothing more.

This is what I'm saying. Richardson is going to the freaking browns and has to play the steelers and ravens for 4/16 games a season. Wilson will excel with our dominant passing game.

BigBlue1971
04-27-2012, 07:39 PM
Yes even more yards after contact then <A>trent Richardson (http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/04/16/david-wilson-more-powerful-than-trent-richardson/)</A>

"Little known fact: David Wilson had more yards after contact than any runner in the country. According to STATS X-Info, Wilson had 990 yards after contact last season, or 267 more yards than Richardson, who was seventh in the country. The X-Info is being used by several teams in preparation for the draft as part of the ICE system, a personnel management and player evaluation system."
</P>


</P>


watching vids ofWilson i can understand how and why he has those yards after contact!</P>


this guy is slippery and breaks tackles. </P>


not only that Wilson will have a better rookie season than Richardson....you heard it here 1st.</P>

eastbayblue
04-27-2012, 08:24 PM
This guy is the next Darren Sproles, bank it!I said the same thing in another thread

Sorry about that, glad we agree!

RoanokeFan
04-27-2012, 08:33 PM
Oh but so many are saying he is to small and only a complimentary back.

It won't matter, they ALL know better than the professionals [;)]

Neverend
04-29-2012, 01:47 PM
What I found:


averaged 0.47 yards lost per carry as a senior

Wilson also comes with some negatives, though. He has to learn how to stop bouncing things outside and becoming more disciplined

I'm not so sure why richardson is getting criticized in this thread, though. Who cares what Jim Brown said? He's going to be a very good nfl runningback

jakegibbs
04-29-2012, 06:42 PM
Yes even more yards after contact then <a>trent Richardson (http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/04/16/david-wilson-more-powerful-than-trent-richardson/)</a>

"Little known fact: David Wilson had more yards after contact than
any runner in the country. According to STATS X-Info, Wilson had 990
yards after contact last season, or 267 more yards than Richardson, who
was seventh in the country. The X-Info is being used by several teams in
preparation for the draft as part of the ICE system, a personnel
management and player evaluation system."


Every had this thought... the competition both were playing against may have contributed to the YA contact numbers. THE SEC defenses speed wize are almost as good as the NFL. What 5 championships in a row now or something like that out of the SEC?

FlyingTruck
04-29-2012, 06:46 PM
And I don't know if you guys noticed, but wasn't running behind such a good offensive line either.

Redeyejedi
04-29-2012, 06:48 PM
What I found:


averaged 0.47 yards lost per carry as a senior

Wilson also comes with some negatives, though. He has to learn how to stop bouncing things outside and becoming more disciplined

I'm not so sure why richardson is getting criticized in this thread, though. Who cares what Jim Brown said? He's going to be a very good nfl runningbackYeah that shows up a lot on his games. That wont fly in the NFL.

Firenugget
04-29-2012, 07:42 PM
What I found:


averaged 0.47 yards lost per carry as a senior

Wilson also comes with some negatives, though. He has to learn how to stop bouncing things outside and becoming more disciplined

I'm not so sure why richardson is getting criticized in this thread, though. Who cares what Jim Brown said? He's going to be a very good nfl runningbackYeah that shows up a lot on his games. That wont fly in the NFL.

It worked pretty well for Tiki. I suppose if you have really good vision and anticipation you can make it work. We'll see. Either way if it's an issue that they want to correct, they'll correct it. That's why we have coaches.

miked1958
04-29-2012, 07:46 PM
This guy is the next Darren Sproles, bank it!I said the same thing in another thread

Sorry about that, glad we agree!
No need to be sorry. A fact like that is worth repeating and hearing over and over again.

nevada11
04-29-2012, 10:22 PM
edit- and just for the record, richardson couldnt beat out ingram when both were at alabama, and jim brown doesnt believe richardson is gonna be half the player his hype is

I bet if richardson were a giant you would not be saying this.

giantsfan420
04-29-2012, 10:28 PM
edit- and just for the record, richardson couldnt beat out ingram when both were at alabama, and jim brown doesnt believe richardson is gonna be half the player his hype is

I bet if richardson were a giant you would not be saying this.

been saying it for some time. i never bought into the richardson hype. to me at least, it just seems like he moves in slow motion unless its straight line to the endzone. he doesnt, to me, look like he's exploding in and out of his juke moves or cutbacks...just me tho.

but i think that does require some attention: for as good as people think richardson is, he couldnt beat out ingram...whether thats for other reasons besides play, i dunno.

just my opinion, i could be dead wrong. wouldnt be a first

nevada11
04-29-2012, 10:37 PM
edit- and just for the record, richardson couldnt beat out ingram when both were at alabama, and jim brown doesnt believe richardson is gonna be half the player his hype is

I bet if richardson were a giant you would not be saying this.

been saying it for some time. i never bought into the richardson hype. to me at least, it just seems like he moves in slow motion unless its straight line to the endzone. he doesnt, to me, look like he's exploding in and out of his juke moves or cutbacks...just me tho.

but i think that does require some attention: for as good as people think richardson is, he couldnt beat out ingram...whether thats for other reasons besides play, i dunno.

just my opinion, i could be dead wrong. wouldnt be a first

Oh ok. if you always felt this way then i respect your opinion. i just thought through this entire thread you were discrediting richardson and saying wilson could be better than him because we drafted wilson and you were being biased. thats why i laughed at your post

sorry

jhamburg
04-29-2012, 11:07 PM
this guy has an even higher ceiling than richardson

do not agree with that at all

cool good for u

how can he not think that Wilson has more upside than Trent? lol Wilson has that game breaking speed and agility that trent will never have. I can honestly see trent just being above average.

above average?

richardson is considered by many the best prospect since adrian peterson

david wilson isnt really any different from ryan williams last year (the 2009 healthy williams), slightly faster. or cj spiller with power

You could make the arguement that Richardson has peaked while WIlson hasn't.

And Richardson has injury issues.

And I don't think it's a stretch to believe Dave Wilson might enjoy more success with the Giants than Richardson will with the Browns.

Having said that, I wouldn't compare any backs at this point from an NFL standpoint. College backs and draft status is a projection in probability ... nothing more.

well this so called "peak" was worthy of the 4th pick of the draft and called by greg cosell "the best player in the draft" and has been called by many the best back since AP

A damn fine peak.

I've heard that about every #1 rated running back in every draft.

North/south runners have to be durable more then anything ... Richardson isn't especially durable.

And top rated anybodies tend not to fulfill the hype historically speaking.

I don't think that's true at all. We just notice the times that they don't.

Neverend
04-30-2012, 10:42 AM
been saying it for some time. i never bought into the richardson hype. to me at least, it just seems like he moves in slow motion unless its straight line to the endzone. he doesnt, to me, look like he's exploding in and out of his juke moves or cutbacks...just me tho.

but i think that does require some attention: for as good as people think richardson is, he couldnt beat out ingram...whether thats for other reasons besides play, i dunno.

just my opinion, i could be dead wrong. wouldnt be a first

"lmfao giantsfan420 knows everything! haha

ill take the opinion of mike mayock and greg cosell anyday over yours"

does this response sound fimilar when I made my opinion about Rueben Randle being more comparable to other receivers than Hakeem Nicks? All you kept fighting back with my opinion doesnt matter because of what greg cosell and marc ross said about randle

Goes to show the hyporcrisy of some people. You are allowed to make opinions opposite of what the analysts say giantsfan420, but YOU also feel other people shouldn't. Give me a break, giantsfan420

LT_was_good
04-30-2012, 01:35 PM
He doesn't have to be better than Richardson to be a good pick. If Michael Crabtree became the next Calvin Johnson, Nicks would still be a great pick.

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 01:43 PM
been saying it for some time. i never bought into the richardson hype. to me at least, it just seems like he moves in slow motion unless its straight line to the endzone. he doesnt, to me, look like he's exploding in and out of his juke moves or cutbacks...just me tho.

but i think that does require some attention: for as good as people think richardson is, he couldnt beat out ingram...whether thats for other reasons besides play, i dunno.

just my opinion, i could be dead wrong. wouldnt be a first

"lmfao giantsfan420 knows everything! haha

ill take the opinion of mike mayock and greg cosell anyday over yours"

does this response sound fimilar when I made my opinion about Rueben Randle being more comparable to other receivers than Hakeem Nicks? All you kept fighting back with my opinion doesnt matter because of what greg cosell and marc ross said about randle

Goes to show the hyporcrisy of some people. You are allowed to make opinions opposite of what the analysts say giantsfan420, but YOU also feel other people shouldn't. Give me a break, giantsfan420

without making any personal attacks, which we've been warned of, the difference is, you told people that they were wrong in believing nicks and randle are similar. i said that i'd take mayocks and cosells word over it, over urs.

with richardson, i already entertain i could very well be dead wrong, something u were unwilling to do while listing the similarities between nicks and RR but then would go "no they arent" after u spent time listing similar qualities.

i further am not acting as if my opinion is 100% absolute truth, as u did, which i made clear repeatedly in my post with "thats just me...i could be dead wrong..." which u refused to do (while still listing similarities between the two)

lastly, we've been warned of personal attacks. you should prob take it easy, Die-Hard has explained that any more of it, and there will be bans and it wont be of the 1 day variety.

Snappinnecks
04-30-2012, 01:49 PM
This guy's main asset is his quickness and speed. The fact that he's a tough runner is bonus. He can't run like that in the NFL all the time or he'll be done within 4 years.

jhamburg
04-30-2012, 02:17 PM
edit- and just for the record, richardson couldnt beat out ingram when both were at alabama, and jim brown doesnt believe richardson is gonna be half the player his hype is

I bet if richardson were a giant you would not be saying this.

been saying it for some time. i never bought into the richardson hype. to me at least, it just seems like he moves in slow motion unless its straight line to the endzone. he doesnt, to me, look like he's exploding in and out of his juke moves or cutbacks...just me tho.

but i think that does require some attention: for as good as people think richardson is, he couldnt beat out ingram...whether thats for other reasons besides play, i dunno.

just my opinion, i could be dead wrong. wouldnt be a first

There's no doubt that Richardson was the highest RB on every team's draft board. Reese even admitted that Wilson was the 2nd RB on his board. Nothing against you personally, but I just don't think any of us are qualified to disagree with the scouting departments of 32 teams.

Neverend
04-30-2012, 02:20 PM
without making any personal attacks, which we've been warned of, the difference is, you told people that they were wrong in believing nicks and randle are similar. i said that i'd take mayocks and cosells word over it, over urs.

with richardson, i already entertain i could very well be dead wrong, something u were unwilling to do while listing the similarities between nicks and RR but then would go "no they arent" after u spent time listing similar qualities.

i further am not acting as if my opinion is 100% absolute truth, as u did, which i made clear repeatedly in my post with "thats just me...i could be dead wrong..." which u refused to do (while still listing similarities between the two)

lastly, we've been warned of personal attacks. you should prob take it easy, Die-Hard has explained that any more of it, and there will be bans and it wont be of the 1 day variety.

By calling you a hypocrite that's not an insult, it's an apt characterization of what you have been doing when you were disputing by opinions. Being a hypocrite has negative connotations because it reflects poorly upon the one being hypocritical, but the word itself is not an insult

Love how you sum up my argument as "no they arent". The thing is, when you tried to argue against my opinion, I kept using was facts and even videos to prove my argument. You kept discouraging me from even having a different opinion because of what marc ross and greg cosell said. Because these guys are obviously very credible and knowledgeable, you kept on pushing that makes my differing opinion irrelevant and nonsense regardless of whether or not I was willing to admit I could have been wrong

Yet here we are, Greg cosell called richardson the best player in the draft. Many peeps think this guy could be the next AP. But you think hes overrated and even went on to quote jim brown. I have no problem with your opinion, I respect that. But I just found it ironic that YOU could post your own personal opinion different than what the analysts say, but when I did that about randle/nicks comparison you ripped my opinion not with facts/argument but using the "ur a scout on your coach with a stupid avatar. greg cosell and marc ross says ur wrong". That to me is quite hypocritical

Spizi
04-30-2012, 02:34 PM
uh anyway I was looking at the yards after contact numbers and Richardson on average was first contacted 3.4 yards past the line of scrimmage. Wilson on the other hand was first contacted only 2.5 yards past. Kinda shows how bad Wilson's line was or how good Richardson's was.

Basically Richardson's line was giving him 3.4 yards per carry so all he had to do was fall forward to get over 4 yards per carry lol

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 02:38 PM
without making any personal attacks, which we've been warned of, the difference is, you told people that they were wrong in believing nicks and randle are similar. i said that i'd take mayocks and cosells word over it, over urs.

with richardson, i already entertain i could very well be dead wrong, something u were unwilling to do while listing the similarities between nicks and RR but then would go "no they arent" after u spent time listing similar qualities.

i further am not acting as if my opinion is 100% absolute truth, as u did, which i made clear repeatedly in my post with "thats just me...i could be dead wrong..." which u refused to do (while still listing similarities between the two)

lastly, we've been warned of personal attacks. you should prob take it easy, Die-Hard has explained that any more of it, and there will be bans and it wont be of the 1 day variety.

By calling you a hypocrite that's not an insult, it's an apt characterization of what you have been doing when you were disputing by opinions. Being a hypocrite has negative connotations because it reflects poorly upon the one being hypocritical, but the word itself is not an insult

Love how you sum up my argument as "no they arent". The thing is, when you tried to argue against my opinion, I kept using was facts and even videos to prove my argument. You kept discouraging me from even having a different opinion because of what marc ross and greg cosell said. Because these guys are obviously very credible and knowledgeable, you kept on pushing that makes my differing opinion irrelevant and nonsense regardless of whether or not I was willing to admit I could have been wrong

Yet here we are, Greg cosell called richardson the best player in the draft. Many peeps think this guy could be the next AP. But you think hes overrated and even went on to quote jim brown. I have no problem with your opinion, I respect that. But I just found it ironic that YOU could post your own personal opinion different than what the analysts say, but when I did that about randle/nicks comparison you ripped my opinion not with facts/argument but using the "ur a scout on your coach with a stupid avatar. greg cosell and marc ross says ur wrong". That to me is quite hypocritical

maybe u should go back and look at that thread...my issue was that you were commenting about how others were wrong to compare nicks and randle. i used the example of cosell and mayock making the very comparison. i never was telling u not to think a certain way, u just could not grasp that people could feel they are similar players without telling them how wrong we were, to which i used cosell and mayock as an example....

and, unlike u, i acknowledge i could be dead wrong, something u refuse to do...ever...and that was the issue. u interjected between posters commenting on nicks randle comparisons, telling them and anyone who thought that way, they were wrong bc u felt otherwise. to which, again, i cited mayock...u then made the comments "i can see why so many people dislike u and argue with u" or some bs...in which i got defensive.

for the last time, calling my a hypocrite and saying its an apt characterization IS a personal attack...and u might want to take it easy with that. i know in ur mind ur never wrong and can do no wrong, but Die Hard has warned that the next person to do it will be banned, and for more than a day...

edit- and its ironic that you say other cannot have a diff opinion than me, solely bc i kept on repeating cosell and mayock say they are similar. i had no issue with u feeling differently, i had an issue with u feeling u were superior to others and had to ensure they thought as u did...point to where i said think my way? thats what u continued to do. i didnt even care for the arguments u made, over and over. that was irrelevant. u continually kept on trying to argue that anyone making the comparison was wrong...get over urself. and stop with the personal attacks.

buddy33
04-30-2012, 02:46 PM
uh anyway I was looking at the yards after contact numbers and Richardson on average was first contacted 3.4 yards past the line of scrimmage. Wilson on the other hand was first contacted only 2.5 yards past. Kinda shows how bad Wilson's line was or how good Richardson's was.

Basically Richardson's line was giving him 3.4 yards per carry so all he had to do was fall forward to get over 4 yards per carry lol

That makes the yards after contact by Wilson even more impressive.

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 02:48 PM
uh anyway I was looking at the yards after contact numbers and Richardson on average was first contacted 3.4 yards past the line of scrimmage. Wilson on the other hand was first contacted only 2.5 yards past. Kinda shows how bad Wilson's line was or how good Richardson's was.

Basically Richardson's line was giving him 3.4 yards per carry so all he had to do was fall forward to get over 4 yards per carry lol

That makes the yards after contact by Wilson even more impressive.

it certainly does. bama is known for there gameplan of play tough d and run the ball. VT didnt have that luxury. Wilsons numbers in that regard are extremely impressive

Neverend
04-30-2012, 02:49 PM
maybe u should go back and look at that thread...my issue was that you were commenting about how others were wrong to compare nicks and randle. i used the example of cosell and mayock making the very comparison. i never was telling u not to think a certain way, u just could not grasp that people could feel they are similar players without telling them how wrong we were, to which i used cosell and mayock as an example....

and, unlike u, i acknowledge i could be dead wrong, something u refuse to do...ever...and that was the issue. u interjected between posters commenting on nicks randle comparisons, telling them and anyone who thought that way, they were wrong bc u felt otherwise. to which, again, i cited mayock...u then made the comments "i can see why so many people dislike u and argue with u" or some bs...in which i got defensive.

for the last time, calling my a hypocrite and saying its an apt characterization IS a personal attack...and u might want to take it easy with that. i know in ur mind ur never wrong and can do no wrong, but Die Hard has warned that the next person to do it will be banned, and for more than a day...

edit- and its ironic that you say other cannot have a diff opinion than me, solely bc i kept on repeating cosell and mayock say they are similar. i had no issue with u feeling differently, i had an issue with u feeling u were superior to others and had to ensure they thought as u did...point to where i said think my way? thats what u continued to do. i didnt even care for the arguments u made, over and over. that was irrelevant. u continually kept on trying to argue that anyone making the comparison was wrong...get over urself. and stop with the personal attacks.

http://boards.giants.com/forums/1/2549662/ShowThread.aspx

I had a problem when you called Randle a "Nicks clone". I gave a very adapt, respectful opinion of why Randle isn't a Nicks clone on page 2 of that thread and even used videos to support my opinion

All you did was rebuttle me with the whole "greg cosell and marc ross says he nicks so ure wrong" and discouraged me from having a different view from believing randle is a "nicks clone" as stated by you. You DID have an issue with me feeling differently because you didn't try to dispute my opinion but rather tell me its irrelevant because of what the analysts are saying

Yet, again, here we are -- you -- feeling richardson is overrated despite what greg cosell said about him being the best player in the draft. A man, you use, to shot down my opinion about Randle and Nicks. This is hypocritical. That isn't an insult because its an apt characterization over your posts and actions. Insults are PERSONAL attacks, I'm just describing you are a hypocrite based on what you have been posting.

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 02:52 PM
maybe u should go back and look at that thread...my issue was that you were commenting about how others were wrong to compare nicks and randle. i used the example of cosell and mayock making the very comparison. i never was telling u not to think a certain way, u just could not grasp that people could feel they are similar players without telling them how wrong we were, to which i used cosell and mayock as an example....

and, unlike u, i acknowledge i could be dead wrong, something u refuse to do...ever...and that was the issue. u interjected between posters commenting on nicks randle comparisons, telling them and anyone who thought that way, they were wrong bc u felt otherwise. to which, again, i cited mayock...u then made the comments "i can see why so many people dislike u and argue with u" or some bs...in which i got defensive.

for the last time, calling my a hypocrite and saying its an apt characterization IS a personal attack...and u might want to take it easy with that. i know in ur mind ur never wrong and can do no wrong, but Die Hard has warned that the next person to do it will be banned, and for more than a day...

edit- and its ironic that you say other cannot have a diff opinion than me, solely bc i kept on repeating cosell and mayock say they are similar. i had no issue with u feeling differently, i had an issue with u feeling u were superior to others and had to ensure they thought as u did...point to where i said think my way? thats what u continued to do. i didnt even care for the arguments u made, over and over. that was irrelevant. u continually kept on trying to argue that anyone making the comparison was wrong...get over urself. and stop with the personal attacks.

http://boards.giants.com/forums/1/2549662/ShowThread.aspx

I had a problem when you called Randle a "Nicks clone". I gave a very adapt, respectful opinion of why Randle isn't a Nicks clone on page 2 of that thread and even used videos to support my opinion

All you did was rebuttle me with the whole "greg cosell and marc ross says he nicks so ure wrong" and discouraged me from having a different view from believing randle is a "nicks clone" as stated by you. You DID have an issue with me feeling differently because you didn't try to dispute my opinion but rather tell me its irrelevant because of what the analysts are saying

Yet, again, here we are -- you -- feeling richardson is overrated despite what greg cosell said about him being the best player in the draft. A man, you use, to shot down my opinion about Randle and Nicks. This is hypocritical. That isn't an insult because its an apt characterization over your posts and actions. Insults are PERSONAL attacks, I'm just describing you are a hypocrite based on what you have been posting.

sigh. i guess thats where the issue comes in. NOT ONCE DID I SAY HE WAS NICKS CLONE. I SAID HE HAD SIMILARITIES TO NICKS...

to which, u could not concede...NOT ONCE did i call him a nicks clone. reread that link...ur wasting ur time, and thus, mine. i am off of this. just stop with personal attacks.

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 02:53 PM
i wouldnt be interested except ur telling people we're wrong with the nicks comparison. Cosell and Ross say your wrong. Simple as that.
And i have never heard "freezing a db and running by him (vs SEC teams top corners) for a td" is a bad thing...

cool. we got ur opinion. my opinion is he is very similar to Nicks, not as polished, but similar in terms of body control, steming routes, getting seperation, being an elite deep threat and can go over the middle.

no offense intended
_________________________

to which u said he wasnt dynamic and faulted him for burning corners...i then quote ross and cosell...GET OVER USELF. last i will interact with u.

like go back and reread ur link lmfao

Neverend
04-30-2012, 02:59 PM
sigh. i guess thats where the issue comes in. NOT ONCE DID I SAY HE WAS NICKS CLONE..

Riiiightt...


<font size="4">he's a clone of Nicks</font>, put it that way Great hands, can be explosive downfield, amazing body control, stems his routes, gets seperation...he literally has 1rst round talent...he's going to be AWESOME and on day 1 too

Fact is, dont be hypocritical. Dont tell me I'm wrong and can't have a different opinion, because Greg Cosell disagrees with me while at the same time -- greg cosell calls richardson the best player in the draft but you personally feel hes overrated

We all can have different opinions that goes against what the experts say. Theres nothing wrong with that. So next time, dont be a hypocrite

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 03:00 PM
ok i see where the issue came in. someone asked about randle not knowing a thing about him. in trying to be as simple as i could in explaining, i did say that "he's like a clone of nicks..."

i went onto say every post after that in more depth comparison that he's similar, not as polished.
i quoted ross and cosell.

for some reason, u felt the need to tell me my opinion, even if it was "he's a clone of nicks", was wrong. and had to ensure that i changed my opinion, to which i continually referred to cosell and ross...

this is over something so stupid its not even funny, and i maintain over and over, ok u feel that way. ross and cosell feel otherwise...to which u somehow took offense to. this is ridic. im off it. peace

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 03:07 PM
sigh. i guess thats where the issue comes in. NOT ONCE DID I SAY HE WAS NICKS CLONE..

Riiiightt...


<font size="4">he's a clone of Nicks</font>, put it that way Great hands, can be explosive downfield, amazing body control, stems his routes, gets seperation...he literally has 1rst round talent...he's going to be AWESOME and on day 1 too

Fact is, dont be hypocritical. Dont tell me I'm wrong and can't have a different opinion, because Greg Cosell disagrees with me while at the same time -- greg cosell calls richardson the best player in the draft but you personally feel hes overrated

We all can have different opinions that goes against what the experts say. Theres nothing wrong with that. So next time, dont be a hypocrite

thats hilarious, seeing as how i continually said u telling people they arent similar is dead wrong. ross and cosell disagree with u.

u took me saying not to tell other people what to think, as me telling u what not to think. there were even other posters thoughout the thread questioning "so you feel you know more than Jerry Reese, etc."

I am now going to go through post by post, just so u can see i never had an issue with YOUR OPINION, i had an issue WITH YOU TELLING OTHERS THEIR OPINION WAS WRONG...

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 03:08 PM
Neverend:
Well im glad thats good enough for you.

I want to see guys make big plays by running by cornerse with a second gear, or showcasing the ability to make highly contested catches with corners draped over them. I like that TD against oregon randle made but i want to see more of that, and he doesnt have the greatest range in the air

Thats just my preference. If making most of your big plays through savvy and deception is good enough to convince you he's going to be doing the same on the outside in the nfl fine.. thats good enough for you. dont see why you took the time to tell me im wrong if you're not even really interested in my opinion anyway


i wouldnt be interested except ur telling people we're wrong with the nicks comparison. Cosell and Ross say your wrong. Simple as that.
And i have never heard "freezing a db and running by him (vs SEC teams top corners) for a td" is a bad thing...

cool. we got ur opinion. my opinion is he is very similar to Nicks, not as polished, but similar in terms of body control, steming routes, getting seperation, being an elite deep threat and can go over the middle.

no offense intended
__________________

literally what was said early in our back and forth...to which u COULD NOT let me feel the way I did. u went on and on arguing points with me to tell me my opinion was wrong...again this is ******ed. stop personal attacks, keep my username off ur posts, and there will be no need for any more back and forth.
3 times u personally attacked me, Die Hard was very clear not to do that. i'd try and resolve that before any ban occurs

Mod_C
04-30-2012, 03:10 PM
sigh. i guess thats where the issue comes in. NOT ONCE DID I SAY HE WAS NICKS CLONE..

Riiiightt...


<font size="4">he's a clone of Nicks</font>, put it that way Great hands, can be explosive downfield, amazing body control, stems his routes, gets seperation...he literally has 1rst round talent...he's going to be AWESOME and on day 1 too

Fact is, dont be hypocritical. Dont tell me I'm wrong and can't have a different opinion, because Greg Cosell disagrees with me while at the same time -- greg cosell calls richardson the best player in the draft but you personally feel hes overrated

We all can have different opinions that goes against what the experts say. Theres nothing wrong with that. So next time, dont be a hypocrite

thats hilarious, seeing as how i continually said u telling people they arent similar is dead wrong. ross and cosell disagree with u.

u took me saying not to tell other people what to think, as me telling u what not to think. there were even other posters thoughout the thread questioning "so you feel you know more than Jerry Reese, etc."

I am now going to go through post by post, just so u can see i never had an issue with YOUR OPINION, i had an issue WITH YOU TELLING OTHERS THEIR OPINION WAS WRONG...

I'm thinking we've taken this as far as it's going to go.

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 03:11 PM
sigh. i guess thats where the issue comes in. NOT ONCE DID I SAY HE WAS NICKS CLONE..

Riiiightt...


<font size="4">he's a clone of Nicks</font>, put it that way Great hands, can be explosive downfield, amazing body control, stems his routes, gets seperation...he literally has 1rst round talent...he's going to be AWESOME and on day 1 too

Fact is, dont be hypocritical. Dont tell me I'm wrong and can't have a different opinion, because Greg Cosell disagrees with me while at the same time -- greg cosell calls richardson the best player in the draft but you personally feel hes overrated

We all can have different opinions that goes against what the experts say. Theres nothing wrong with that. So next time, dont be a hypocrite

thats hilarious, seeing as how i continually said u telling people they arent similar is dead wrong. ross and cosell disagree with u.

u took me saying not to tell other people what to think, as me telling u what not to think. there were even other posters thoughout the thread questioning "so you feel you know more than Jerry Reese, etc."

I am now going to go through post by post, just so u can see i never had an issue with YOUR OPINION, i had an issue WITH YOU TELLING OTHERS THEIR OPINION WAS WRONG...

I'm thinking we've taken this as far as it's going to go.


fine by me. i dont enjoy being called a hypocrite 3 times.