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View Full Version : What is the draft telling you?



JMFP2
04-28-2012, 04:08 PM
It's telling me the Giantscoaches/front office thinkissueswith the running game mighthave less to do with the offensive line than I might have believed last season.</P>

RoanokeFan
04-28-2012, 04:11 PM
The regular season is coming!

Actually, I think the draft says they don't yet trust Scott or Ware to share the load with Bradshaw who has bad feet.

Flip Empty
04-28-2012, 04:11 PM
Fans know nothing is what i'm getting from it.

TheEnigma
04-28-2012, 04:13 PM
That we really trust our positional coaches

radar-ray
04-28-2012, 04:19 PM
Fans know nothing is what i'm getting from it.Ha! You hit the nail on the head!!!

Rudyy
04-28-2012, 04:22 PM
Fans know nothing is what i'm getting from it.Bingo.

gmen0820
04-28-2012, 04:22 PM
I think most NFL teams feel the same.

jjj45
04-28-2012, 04:40 PM
Fans know nothing is what i'm getting from it.Bingo.Agree.

giantsfan420
04-28-2012, 04:49 PM
it tells me that the giants want to continue the ascention of our run and pass game.
that they want to use the 3 wr set as they did last season.
That JR is a genius at drafting

that we're keepin osi

nevada11
04-28-2012, 04:53 PM
it tells me that the giants want to continue the ascention of our run and pass game.
that they want to use the 3 wr set as they did last season.
That JR is a genius at drafting

that we're keepin osi

not really.

The giants used a lot of multiple TE sets on 1st and 2nd down. they ran the ball to set up the pass until late in the game

giantsfan420
04-28-2012, 04:58 PM
it tells me that the giants want to continue the ascention of our run and pass game.
that they want to use the 3 wr set as they did last season.
That JR is a genius at drafting

that we're keepin osi

not really.

The giants used a lot of multiple TE sets on 1st and 2nd down. they ran the ball to set up the pass until late in the game

KG has always been a pass to setup the run type guy.
We did use a lot of multiple te sets, but i believe we ran a 3 wide set more than a 22 set...

seeing as how Ross and JR said they were heavily contemplating taking Randle at 32 to me implies they felt we needed to add a top shelf WR, for insurance if we cant re0sign one of our two stars and to ensure the offense doesnt skip a beat...

oh yeah we did run a 3 wide set more than the 22, I believe it was 60% or so...but our run game struggled so that could be why.

but to say not really to the idea of wanting to use 3 wr sets is just dead wrong imo...

da_mane_man
04-28-2012, 05:00 PM
That we really trust our positional coaches

THIS X 1000 ... specifically the TE coach and the o-line coach.

the Giants use top picks to add depth to other positions knowing that they have the luxury of bringing in "projects" with the later picks and coaching them up to their potential.

it's really a great thing to see. this organization really knows its strengths.

nevada11
04-28-2012, 05:02 PM
it tells me that the giants want to continue the ascention of our run and pass game.
that they want to use the 3 wr set as they did last season.
That JR is a genius at drafting

that we're keepin osi

not really.

The giants used a lot of multiple TE sets on 1st and 2nd down. they ran the ball to set up the pass until late in the game

KG has always been a pass to setup the run type guy.
We did use a lot of multiple te sets, but i believe we ran a 3 wide set more than a 22 set...

seeing as how Ross and JR said they were heavily contemplating taking Randle at 32 to me implies they felt we needed to add a top shelf WR, for insurance if we cant re0sign one of our two stars and to ensure the offense doesnt skip a beat...

oh yeah we did run a 3 wide set more than the 22, I believe it was 60% or so...but our run game struggled so that could be why.

but to say not really to the idea of wanting to use 3 wr sets is just dead wrong imo...

i guess they "Want" too

but just the way they played in games last year. the green bay game... multiple TE sets nearly all game except on 3rd down. same thing with atlanta playoff game. arizona game etc

giantsfan420
04-28-2012, 05:07 PM
it tells me that the giants want to continue the ascention of our run and pass game.
that they want to use the 3 wr set as they did last season.
That JR is a genius at drafting

that we're keepin osi

not really.

The giants used a lot of multiple TE sets on 1st and 2nd down. they ran the ball to set up the pass until late in the game

KG has always been a pass to setup the run type guy.
We did use a lot of multiple te sets, but i believe we ran a 3 wide set more than a 22 set...

seeing as how Ross and JR said they were heavily contemplating taking Randle at 32 to me implies they felt we needed to add a top shelf WR, for insurance if we cant re0sign one of our two stars and to ensure the offense doesnt skip a beat...

oh yeah we did run a 3 wide set more than the 22, I believe it was 60% or so...but our run game struggled so that could be why.

but to say not really to the idea of wanting to use 3 wr sets is just dead wrong imo...

i guess they "Want" too

but just the way they played in games last year. the green bay game... multiple TE sets nearly all game except on 3rd down. same thing with atlanta playoff game. arizona game etc

we ran a 3 wr set about 60% of the time according to Cosell...vs GB we ran 3 wr set way more than the 22 set, vs Atlanta the same...

cruz had 80 something catches, nicks 70 plus catches, MM 40 plus catches...its why Randle was on there radar in the 1rst...but again, that could be bc our run game struggled.

edit-probably has to do with the fact we trailed at one point almost every game...

TheEnigma
04-28-2012, 05:10 PM
That we really trust our positional coachesYup there we go with another late round OT. McCants is above average value here at the end of the 6th. We use our early picks on playmakers and then trust our positional coaches like Pope and Flaherty to make the late round guys solid players for us.

nevada11
04-28-2012, 05:12 PM
it tells me that the giants want to continue the ascention of our run and pass game.
that they want to use the 3 wr set as they did last season.
That JR is a genius at drafting

that we're keepin osi

not really.

The giants used a lot of multiple TE sets on 1st and 2nd down. they ran the ball to set up the pass until late in the game

KG has always been a pass to setup the run type guy.
We did use a lot of multiple te sets, but i believe we ran a 3 wide set more than a 22 set...

seeing as how Ross and JR said they were heavily contemplating taking Randle at 32 to me implies they felt we needed to add a top shelf WR, for insurance if we cant re0sign one of our two stars and to ensure the offense doesnt skip a beat...

oh yeah we did run a 3 wide set more than the 22, I believe it was 60% or so...but our run game struggled so that could be why.

but to say not really to the idea of wanting to use 3 wr sets is just dead wrong imo...

i guess they "Want" too

but just the way they played in games last year. the green bay game... multiple TE sets nearly all game except on 3rd down. same thing with atlanta playoff game. arizona game etc

we ran a 3 wr set about 60% of the time according to Cosell...vs GB we ran 3 wr set way more than the 22 set, vs Atlanta the same...

cruz had 80 something catches, nicks 70 plus catches, MM 40 plus catches...its why Randle was on there radar in the 1rst...but again, that could be bc our run game struggled.

edit-probably has to do with the fact we trailed at one point almost every game...

yea thats what im saying

the 4th quarter is when they changed. if only the gilbride would learn.

arizona game the offense just exploded when they went 3 wide, they destroyed and move the ball against the cardinals at will hence all the 4th qtr comebacks in the regular season

giantsfan420
04-28-2012, 05:14 PM
it tells me that the giants want to continue the ascention of our run and pass game.
that they want to use the 3 wr set as they did last season.
That JR is a genius at drafting

that we're keepin osi

not really.

The giants used a lot of multiple TE sets on 1st and 2nd down. they ran the ball to set up the pass until late in the game

KG has always been a pass to setup the run type guy.
We did use a lot of multiple te sets, but i believe we ran a 3 wide set more than a 22 set...

seeing as how Ross and JR said they were heavily contemplating taking Randle at 32 to me implies they felt we needed to add a top shelf WR, for insurance if we cant re0sign one of our two stars and to ensure the offense doesnt skip a beat...

oh yeah we did run a 3 wide set more than the 22, I believe it was 60% or so...but our run game struggled so that could be why.

but to say not really to the idea of wanting to use 3 wr sets is just dead wrong imo...

i guess they "Want" too

but just the way they played in games last year. the green bay game... multiple TE sets nearly all game except on 3rd down. same thing with atlanta playoff game. arizona game etc

we ran a 3 wr set about 60% of the time according to Cosell...vs GB we ran 3 wr set way more than the 22 set, vs Atlanta the same...

cruz had 80 something catches, nicks 70 plus catches, MM 40 plus catches...its why Randle was on there radar in the 1rst...but again, that could be bc our run game struggled.

edit-probably has to do with the fact we trailed at one point almost every game...

yea thats what im saying

the 4th quarter is when they changed. if only the gilbride would learn.

arizona game the offense just exploded when they went 3 wide, they destroyed and move the ball against the cardinals at will hence all the 4th qtr comebacks in the regular season

oh ok i just got confused bc I said "the giants want to continue to use the 3 wr set as often as they did last season" and u went "not really"

And the exact number according to profootballoutsiders, we wan the 3 wr set 59% of the time

Gimaniac
04-28-2012, 05:36 PM
This draft is telling me that the Giants no longer wanted to deal with:

1. Brandon's mouth
2. Mario's brain
3. Ross's doctor

RagTime Blue
04-28-2012, 05:39 PM
This draft is telling me that the Giants no longer wanted to deal with:

1. Brandon's mouth
2. Mario's brain
3. Ross's doctor

How about Diehl's contract? Two tackles drafted already, and one FA signed.

sharick88
04-28-2012, 06:10 PM
It's telling me that you should be very worried about getting a job if you are a free agent running back right now.

RoanokeFan
04-28-2012, 07:18 PM
Fans know nothing is what i'm getting from it.

We did 't need the draft to get to that conclusion [;)]

jonnyhaze
04-28-2012, 08:14 PM
This draft is telling me that the Giants no longer wanted to deal with:

1. Brandon's mouth
2. Mario's brain
3. Ross's doctor

How about Diehl's contract? Two tackles drafted already, and one FA signed.


Diehl has kind of been getting shafted by the giants as far as money goes.
Paid as a guard and then played mostly left tackle.
Smart on the giants part but if i were Diehl that would probably make me a little salty.

greenca190
04-29-2012, 02:02 AM
This draft is telling me that the Giants no longer wanted to deal with:

1. Brandon's mouth
2. Mario's brain
3. Ross's doctor

How about Diehl's contract?* Two tackles drafted already, and one FA signed.


Diehl has kind of been getting shafted by the giants as far as money goes.
Paid as a guard and then played mostly left tackle.
Smart on the giants part but if i were Diehl that would probably make me a little salty.


I thought Diehl's contract was set up on a positional basis. You play at guard, you make X amount, you play tackle, you make X amount.

Edit: I'm right.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/940/david-diehl

"5/6/2008: Signed a six-year, $31 million contract. The deal includes annual escalators of between $750,000 and $1.1 million depending on Diehl playing offensive tackle as opposed to guard."

egyptian420
04-29-2012, 02:17 AM
Fans know nothing is what i'm getting from it.
...for real

Diamondring
04-29-2012, 03:47 AM
That they do come here often because they sure look like they saw giantsfan420's post about us needing a top notch wr because we got one in the second round. He will be good for us the new wr yes..

giantyankee1976
04-29-2012, 03:55 AM
plus people forget about the UDFA that may get picked up. Who knows what gems JR and Co. get there?

gumby742
04-29-2012, 09:39 AM
It's telling me the Giants*coaches/front office think*issues*with the running game might*have less to do with the offensive line than I might have believed last season.******</P>

I'm thinking the same thing. I hope they are right. as for the other picks (2nd round and below), they were more bpa more so then the 1st rounder. I'm fine with us drafting Randle, but WR is a position that we're set at. so it's difficult to tell what they think in general.

I'm also thinking that they have confidence that our defense won't **** the bed like they did last season.

gumby742
04-29-2012, 09:50 AM
another one. our front office thinks the world of our coaching staff and their ability to teach the young ones how to play to their talent.

NYSPORTS
04-29-2012, 10:02 AM
Guess I'm the one of few nervous about the OL

Hooligans
04-29-2012, 10:02 AM
It's telling me the Giants*coaches/front office think*issues*with the running game might*have less to do with the offensive line than I might have believed last season.******</P>

Bradshaw looked good last season , but Jacobs was the tiptoe bandit.....as bad as Ron Dayne. This offseason the Giants succeeded is getting rid of the aging malcontent Jacobs, and got a young stud in David Wilson........now maybe the Giants can rid themselves of the remaining cancer, Osi, through a trade.

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 10:08 AM
As Greg Cosell thought, its widely thought throughout the league that the runner makes the OL, the OL does not make the runner.

Giants had some of the worst 2nd level and open field running success in the league. That to me is largely on the backs.

Bradshaw had 3 20+ yard runs this season, contrast to 13 the previous season. Jacobs had 1 this season, compared to 10 last season.

That doesnt really correlate much to OL play.

juice33s
04-29-2012, 10:21 AM
As Greg Cosell thought, its widely thought throughout the league that the runner makes the OL, the OL does not make the runner.

Giants had some of the worst 2nd level and open field running success in the league. That to me is largely on the backs.

Bradshaw had 3 20+ yard runs this season, contrast to 13 the previous season. Jacobs had 1 this season, compared to 10 last season.

That doesnt really correlate much to OL play.
Maybe the elite of elite RB's can make up for a shotty line, but for the most part I'd say the Oline plays a large part in the backs success. Just look at what Denver was doing a few years back with all those different 1k rushers. Not surpisngly the same staff/scheme is now with the Texans where UDFA Arian Foster has turned in to an All Pro

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 10:24 AM
Maybe the elite of elite RB's can make up for a shotty line, but for the most part I'd say the Oline plays a large part in the backs success. Just look at what Denver was doing a few years back with all those different 1k rushers.

Who were the great OLs on that Denver line? All probowlers? I believe around that time Denver had 1 maybe 2 probowl guys.

Scheme + running back was the reason for their success, not because of a fantastic OL

Neverend
04-29-2012, 10:24 AM
I thought Jacobs left MANY yards on the field last year, being late to see and hit open holes or getting tackled at the ankles when he hits the second level because he pops upright

I definitely think RB pays a large part in the running games success, or at least the yards they get when they hit the second level. But if there is penetration and unblocked bodies everywhere no RB can have success

Redeyejedi
04-29-2012, 10:24 AM
This draft is telling me that the Giants no longer wanted to deal with:

1. Brandon's mouth
2. Mario's brain
3. Ross's doctor

How about Diehl's contract?* Two tackles drafted already, and one FA signed.
Both those guys are developmental. Id be surprised if both make the team unless they suffer an injury

Redeyejedi
04-29-2012, 10:25 AM
As Greg Cosell thought, its widely thought throughout the league that the runner makes the OL, the OL does not make the runner.

Giants had some of the worst 2nd level and open field running success in the league. That to me is largely on the backs.

Bradshaw had 3 20+ yard runs this season, contrast to 13 the previous season. Jacobs had 1 this season, compared to 10 last season.

That doesnt really correlate much to OL play.The OLine gave up the most prssures though as well

juice33s
04-29-2012, 10:27 AM
Maybe the elite of elite RB's can make up for a shotty line, but for the most part I'd say the Oline plays a large part in the backs success. Just look at what Denver was doing a few years back with all those different 1k rushers.

Who were the great OLs on that Denver line? All probowlers? I believe around that time Denver had 1 maybe 2 probowl guys.

Scheme + running back was the reason for their success, not because of a fantastic OL
Right because Mike Anderson, Ruenben Droughns Tatum Bell and Orlandis Gary could of gotten 1k behind anybody because there just so damn talented

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 10:29 AM
The OLine gave up the most prssures though as well

Yep. Really think a lot of that can change without even bringing in new guys.

Diehl at LG was an absolute horror.
McKenzie at RT was just brutal last year

McKenzie is gone, I think the coaches will attempt to move Diehl to RT, hopefully his hand injury was something holding him back too.

Bennett actually may be a huge addition in terms of pass blocking, move him to the side where the OT is struggling and he can handle a lot of DEs on his own.

Beatty being back from injury should give a substantial boost. Baas and Snee both did not play well last season, but both also were playing banged up all year.

Locklear I think is better than any of the other swing tackles (ugoh, andrews) that the giants had on the roster last year, I do think he can seriously challenge for that RT spot.

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 10:33 AM
Right because Mike Anderson, Ruenben Droughns Tatum Bell and Orlandis Gary could of gotten 1k behind anybody because there just so damn talented


Droughns hit 1000 yards for cleveland too.

Im just telling you what is the commonly held belief amongst nfl teams. HBs create the OL, not the other way around.

Look at the elite backs, how many of them have great OLs? Peterson is playing behind a bunch of crappers, yet he was averaging what, 1300 yards a season and over 4.5 ypc?

I think the titans have a decent OL, but were they the reason CJ ran for 2k yards? I dont think you stick a guy like DJ Ware back there he even hits 800 yards.

NYSPORTS
04-29-2012, 10:38 AM
Fans seems to forget how the OL was getting annihilated against the 49ers.

Teams do look at film and guaranteed those physical teams on the schedule this season have taken notice.

juice33s
04-29-2012, 10:40 AM
Right because Mike Anderson, Ruenben Droughns Tatum Bell and Orlandis Gary could of gotten 1k behind anybody because there just so damn talented


Droughns hit 1000 yards for cleveland too.

Im just telling you what is the commonly held belief amongst nfl teams. HBs create the OL, not the other way around.

Look at the elite backs, how many of them have great OLs? Peterson is playing behind a bunch of crappers, yet he was averaging what, 1300 yards a season and over 4.5 ypc?

I think the titans have a decent OL, but were they the reason CJ ran for 2k yards? I dont think you stick a guy like DJ Ware back there he even hits 800 yards.
And I said the elite of the elite aka AP CJ2k (although they did finish 31st this year) can overcome a shotty line. Just look at the top two teams who led the league in rushing this past season.
Hou- UDFA Foster
Denver- Mcgahee, people thought he was washed up yet he goes to Den and gets his first 1k season in 4 years...

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 10:43 AM
And I said the elite of the elite aka AP CJ2k can overcome a shotty line. Just look at the top two teams who led the league in rushing this past season.
Hou- UDFA Foster
Denver- Mcgahee, people thought he was washed up yet he goes to Den and gets his first 1k season in 4 years...





Foster is an elite back though, he would be a 1500 yard runner for any zone blocking team in the league.

McGahee had a much better OL with the Ravens, and he didnt run nearly as well. Had a lot to do with McGahee himself, plus having an option QB helped.

gmen0820
04-29-2012, 10:54 AM
I've been making this argument that HB makes the OL since midseason when people said it'd be stupid for us to draft Trent Richardson (things weren't looking good then).

Ultimately, people that oppose my point of view on this always fail to address the reason people take a RB early in the first place, and what separates a good RB from a bad one. If a RB is so powerless (except one or two of them, or the "elite of the elite") than why do teams even bother paying a RB more than minimum?

Rice, McCoy, Forte, Peterson, Mendenhall, McFadden, Matthews, Lynch, Stewart/DWill, Jackson, etc. All top two picks. Are those franchises all missing something? Why was our running game bad? Mainly because Bradshaw was/is really beat up and Jacobs is way past starting capability.

Redeyejedi
04-29-2012, 11:06 AM
Just Uplaoded Markus Kuhn vs Louisville

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWK6bGLflPc

Neverend
04-29-2012, 11:08 AM
I've been making this argument that HB makes the OL since midseason when people said it'd be stupid for us to draft Trent Richardson (things weren't looking good then)..

LOL.

Neverend
04-29-2012, 11:08 AM
Just Uplaoded Markus Kuhn vs Louisville

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWK6bGLflPc

Thanks. What else are you working on? Not that I'm rushing or demanding you of anything

Redeyejedi
04-29-2012, 11:16 AM
Just Uplaoded Markus Kuhn vs Louisville

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWK6bGLflPc

Thanks. What else are you working on? Not that I'm rushing or demanding you of anythingU mean as far as New Giants or 2013 prospects. I have a ton of those Videos coming.Just have to trim up the already cut plays.

I was planning on going through 2010 games and doing Janzen jackson vs UNC.
I was going to do more Hosley, vs Virgina and UNC at the least. I also was going to cut Wilson vs Michigan and App st those games are on my HD. Mosley vs Alabama because I have those plays cut. I dont have any more Mccants footage. Randle ive done almost all the games worth cutting. Have to take a look at the other UDFA's see what else looks good. Im going to do those though

Neverend
04-29-2012, 11:43 AM
Just Uplaoded Markus Kuhn vs Louisville

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWK6bGLflPc

Thanks. What else are you working on? Not that I'm rushing or demanding you of anythingU mean as far as New Giants or 2013 prospects. I have a ton of those Videos coming.Just have to trim up the already cut plays.

I was planning on going through 2010 games and doing Janzen jackson vs UNC.
I was going to do more Hosley, vs Virgina and UNC at the least. I also was going to cut Wilson vs Michigan and App st those games are on my HD. Mosley vs Alabama because I have those plays cut. I dont have any more Mccants footage. Randle ive done almost all the games worth cutting. Have to take a look at the other UDFA's see what else looks good. Im going to do those though

Alright looking forward to it

gumby742
04-29-2012, 01:09 PM
As Greg Cosell thought, its widely thought throughout the league that the runner makes the OL, the OL does not make the runner.

Giants had some of the worst 2nd level and open field running success in the league. That to me is largely on the backs.

Bradshaw had 3 20+ yard runs this season, contrast to 13 the previous season. Jacobs had 1 this season, compared to 10 last season.

That doesnt really correlate much to OL play.

So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.

gmen0820
04-29-2012, 01:24 PM
As Greg Cosell thought, its widely thought throughout the league that the runner makes the OL, the OL does not make the runner.

Giants had some of the worst 2nd level and open field running success in the league. That to me is largely on the backs.

Bradshaw had 3 20+ yard runs this season, contrast to 13 the previous season. Jacobs had 1 this season, compared to 10 last season.

That doesnt really correlate much to OL play.

So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.So of the 25 leading rushers in the NFL, 20 were picked in the third or earlier, that's a coincidence?

You want a good RB, you take him in the draft, and early.

giantsfan420
04-29-2012, 01:31 PM
I've been making this argument that HB makes the OL since midseason when people said it'd be stupid for us to draft Trent Richardson (things weren't looking good then).

Ultimately, people that oppose my point of view on this always fail to address the reason people take a RB early in the first place, and what separates a good RB from a bad one. If a RB is so powerless (except one or two of them, or the "elite of the elite") than why do teams even bother paying a RB more than minimum?

Rice, McCoy, Forte, Peterson, Mendenhall, McFadden, Matthews, Lynch, Stewart/DWill, Jackson, etc. All top two picks. Are those franchises all missing something? Why was our running game bad? Mainly because Bradshaw was/is really beat up and Jacobs is way past starting capability.

i remember you making that point. i had originally been of the thought "if you have a strong enough OL, an avg rb can look great." but i didnt look at the flip side of that. I think you were dead on with ur assessment and ur evidence speaks for itself.

While a great OL can make an avg rb look good, a great rb can make an avg OL look good...theres more than enough examples of that. I look at Forte as the best example. That OL, for much of last season and the yr before, was downright pitiful. Yet, Forte kept reeling in 100 yd games and busting off huge runs...I think what allows the top backs to make ordinary OL look good is the vision. I dont think vision is something u can point to and categorize, its one of those qualities that u cant put on paper and explain how vision exemplifies itself...

I really hope the giants can work with wilson in that regard. he has so much explosion and quickness that if he can be patient in finding the hole, he can explode through it and be a very dangerous back.

gmen0820
04-29-2012, 01:49 PM
I've been making this argument that HB makes the OL since midseason when people said it'd be stupid for us to draft Trent Richardson (things weren't looking good then).

Ultimately, people that oppose my point of view on this always fail to address the reason people take a RB early in the first place, and what separates a good RB from a bad one. If a RB is so powerless (except one or two of them, or the "elite of the elite") than why do teams even bother paying a RB more than minimum?

Rice, McCoy, Forte, Peterson, Mendenhall, McFadden, Matthews, Lynch, Stewart/DWill, Jackson, etc. All top two picks. Are those franchises all missing something? Why was our running game bad? Mainly because Bradshaw was/is really beat up and Jacobs is way past starting capability.

i remember you making that point. i had originally been of the thought "if you have a strong enough OL, an avg rb can look great." but i didnt look at the flip side of that. I think you were dead on with ur assessment and ur evidence speaks for itself.

While a great OL can make an avg rb look good, a great rb can make an avg OL look good...theres more than enough examples of that. I look at Forte as the best example. That OL, for much of last season and the yr before, was downright pitiful. Yet, Forte kept reeling in 100 yd games and busting off huge runs...I think what allows the top backs to make ordinary OL look good is the vision. I dont think vision is something u can point to and categorize, its one of those qualities that u cant put on paper and explain how vision exemplifies itself...

I really hope the giants can work with wilson in that regard. he has so much explosion and quickness that if he can be patient in finding the hole, he can explode through it and be a very dangerous back.I expect big things from Wilson. We haven't seen a back as talented as Wilson on our roster easily since Tiki, who by the way didn't necessarily have the best OL in 2006 either.

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 01:55 PM
So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.

Wasent the OL. The system. A zone running one cut system was perfect for those backs.

juice33s
04-29-2012, 02:05 PM
So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.

Wasent the OL. The system. A zone running one cut system was perfect for those backs.
What about our own running backs, we were 6th in the NFL in 2010, yet with K-mack and Deihls performance falling off a cliff we finished dead last.

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 02:07 PM
So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.

Wasent the OL. The system. A zone running one cut system was perfect for those backs.
What about our own running backs, we were 6th in the NFL in 2010, yet with K-mack and Deihls performance falling off a cliff we finished dead last.


Jacobs Ward and Bradshaw all fell off cliffs too.

Roswell777
04-29-2012, 02:08 PM
So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.

Wasent the OL. The system. A zone running one cut system was perfect for those backs.

Exactly. The backs running style has to fit with the system and blocking scheme. There is definitely a balance that has to exist.

juice33s
04-29-2012, 02:11 PM
So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.

Wasent the OL. The system. A zone running one cut system was perfect for those backs.
What about our own running backs, we were 6th in the NFL in 2010, yet with K-mack and Deihls performance falling off a cliff we finished dead last.


Jacobs Ward and Bradshaw all fell off cliffs too.
How do you figure? During the playoff push (last 10 games) the Oline play improved and the Giants YPC went up an entire yard 3.1-4.1.

Jacobs alone ended the last 10 games of the season averaging 4.66 YPC which is higher then his career average of 4.5

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 02:42 PM
How do you figure? During the playoff push (last 10 games) the Oline play improved and the Giants YPC went up an entire yard 3.1-4.1.

Jacobs alone ended the last 10 games of the season averaging 4.66 YPC which is higher then his career average of 4.5


Bradshaw also came back for the playoff push, while he was banged up and injured earlier in the season.

A great back does not need a good OL to be great. Its as simple as that. The worse a back gets, the better the OL needs to be for them to be productive.

gumby742
04-30-2012, 08:46 AM
How do you figure? During the playoff push (last 10 games) the Oline play improved and the Giants YPC went up an entire yard 3.1-4.1.

Jacobs alone ended the last 10 games of the season averaging 4.66 YPC which is higher then his career average of 4.5


Bradshaw also came back for the playoff push, while he was banged up and injured earlier in the season.

A great back does not need a good OL to be great. Its as simple as that. The worse a back gets, the better the OL needs to be for them to be productive.
</P>


While true, how many great backs are there? There aren't many that can produce with a terrible oline. Most RBs out there today need a functional oline. Ours was horrific. There were way too many runs last season where there were guys 2 yards deep in the backfield. Not many backs can perform in a situation like that.</P>


So unless you're saying that Wilson is going to be a great back, and he'll be able to over come all that, that's fine.</P>


But as a whole, i firmly believe that investing in an Oline is the far smarter solution. What are the chances the you're going to find a "great" RB to hide the oline flaws? If you do get a great RB, his shelf life will only be a few years. Investing ina good oline will also protect your QB. A good oline will give you production out of the most mediocre RBs. Investing in a good oline has definitely more longevity then a RB taking a pounding. A good oline will allow you to overcome injury to your great RB.</P>


If you're oline is half decent (doesn't have to be dominant), you should be able to take an average/above average RB and gain 3 yards or at least positive yarge most plays. That's good enough for me. -1, 0, -1, 2, 12 yards for a 3ish average doesn't do it for me.</P>

gumby742
04-30-2012, 08:48 AM
As Greg Cosell thought, its widely thought throughout the league that the runner makes the OL, the OL does not make the runner. Giants had some of the worst 2nd level and open field running success in the league. That to me is largely on the backs. Bradshaw had 3 20+ yard runs this season, contrast to 13 the previous season. Jacobs had 1 this season, compared to 10 last season. That doesnt really correlate much to OL play. So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.So of the 25 leading rushers in the NFL, 20 were picked in the third or earlier, that's a coincidence? You want a good RB, you take him in the draft, and early.</P>


The same applies to every position. But that doesn't take away from that you can still get good productivity out of an average RB with a good oline. Similarly to how a good QB can make your WRs look really good.</P>

gumby742
04-30-2012, 09:06 AM
So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play. Wasent the OL. The system. A zone running one cut system was perfect for those backs. Exactly. The backs running style has to fit with the system and blocking scheme. There is definitely a balance that has to exist.</P>


I'd imagine every front office already takes the system and the backs that they have in to account. Otherwise, it'd be a serious flaw in practically every front office. So I can't say I'm buying the fact that it was the system and it just happened by chance that the backs fit system.</P>


There does need to be a balance though.</P>

Drez
04-30-2012, 09:26 AM
It's telling me the Giantscoaches/front office thinkissueswith the running game mighthave less to do with the offensive line than I might have believed last season.</p>

Bradshaw looked good last season , but Jacobs was the tiptoe bandit.....as bad as Ron Dayne. This offseason the Giants succeeded is getting rid of the aging malcontent Jacobs, and got a young stud in David Wilson.........
Yeah, AB looked so good only getting 0.1 yds per rush more than Jacobs. So much more studly than Jacobs.

When was Jacobs a malcontent? When he wasn't told he was being demoted in '10? Or when he knew that the only way he could stay a Giants was to take a $4m paycut?

Crack is whack.

sligoker
04-30-2012, 09:36 AM
At this point, I'm so happy with the way Reese conducts business, the the draft tells me one thing. He probably did a great job----but we need some time to see how it plays out.

MikeIsaGiant
04-30-2012, 10:38 AM
Yeah because the coaches should trust Bradshaw, Ware, and Scott.

Obviously they need an RB, but they also need an OL badly which I think they did a fine job at addressing so far

Flip Empty
04-30-2012, 10:51 AM
You really have to wonder if some people actually watch these players play or just regurgitate what they've read in slanted articles. So many comments are at odds with reality.

gumby742
04-30-2012, 11:06 AM
You really have to wonder if some people actually watch these players play or just regurgitate what they've read in slanted articles. So many comments are at odds with reality. </P>


If you believe what you just wrote, you'll have nothing to say about football outside of the new york giants - ever. Not unless you have time to watch every single football game all at the same time, every college game, to draw your own conclusions.</P>


So what is "reality to you"? This I'm curious about.</P>

gmen0820
04-30-2012, 12:40 PM
As Greg Cosell thought, its widely thought throughout the league that the runner makes the OL, the OL does not make the runner. Giants had some of the worst 2nd level and open field running success in the league. That to me is largely on the backs. Bradshaw had 3 20+ yard runs this season, contrast to 13 the previous season. Jacobs had 1 this season, compared to 10 last season. That doesnt really correlate much to OL play. So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.So of the 25 leading rushers in the NFL, 20 were picked in the third or earlier, that's a coincidence? You want a good RB, you take him in the draft, and early.</P>


The same applies to every position.* But that doesn't take away from that you can still get good productivity out of an average RB with a good oline.* Similarly to how a good QB can make your WRs look really good.</P>Of course you can, but the fact that we could have arguably upgraded 3-4 out of the 5 OL positions, why not just draft the second rated back on the board?

If I need a left and right tackle, and 3 better wide receivers on my team, and there is a great QB on the board, I'm taking the QB over the best receiver or tackle on the board.

gumby742
04-30-2012, 12:51 PM
As Greg Cosell thought, its widely thought throughout the league that the runner makes the OL, the OL does not make the runner. Giants had some of the worst 2nd level and open field running success in the league. That to me is largely on the backs. Bradshaw had 3 20+ yard runs this season, contrast to 13 the previous season. Jacobs had 1 this season, compared to 10 last season. That doesnt really correlate much to OL play. So the denver broncos just happened to have an oline tailored to olandis gary, mike bell, mike anderson, and clinton portis? plug and play.So of the 25 leading rushers in the NFL, 20 were picked in the third or earlier, that's a coincidence? You want a good RB, you take him in the draft, and early.</P>


The same applies to every position. But that doesn't take away from that you can still get good productivity out of an average RB with a good oline. Similarly to how a good QB can make your WRs look really good.</P>


Of course you can, but the fact that we could have arguably upgraded 3-4 out of the 5 OL positions, why not just draft the second rated back on the board? If I need a left and right tackle, and 3 better wide receivers on my team, and there is a great QB on the board, I'm taking the QB over the best receiver or tackle on the board.</P>


I see where you're coming from. Keep in mind though that Eli got absolutely killed against SF. Our oline wasn't good - period, run or pass. Making our oline better will make our team better in more then one dimension. It's also a more solid long term solution imo. but, i digress. In 3 years, we'll be looking for another RB, should Wilson pan out. And if we don't find a replacement, we'll be absolutely screwed because we didn't bother making our oline better. It's putting too much emphasis on one player. And that bugs me.</P>


To address the last bit of your post, it boils down to opinion. You obviously value agreat individual more then you do a great collective. In most cases, I believe this to be true. My problem is that the shelf life of a RB is absolutely miniscule. If a RB can play a solid 7 years at a high level, I'd probably agree with you.</P>