PDA

View Full Version : # 1's Wilson vs Martin-enough already!



foxie
04-29-2012, 12:28 PM
Reese, Tom C said we had Wilson as # 2, which for most of the spring, till combines he was, both have strengths & weaknesses, ergo pick 31 & 32, Sporting News comments Wilson-"Has excellent acceleration and speed to get to the corner"....Martin-"lacks the elite boost and speed to turn the corner". Personally speaking, I was sick of The Giants trying to run end arounds with Jacobs, having it look like slow motion ferry boat race & going no where, Bradshaw was 50/50, Giants like this play & wanted someone who could execute it!. WE will do fine with how we plan to utilize Wilson, I'm sure TB has a plan in their offense how THEY envision best using Martin. I really don't believe we got Bamboozeled on this pick, I believe Reese & Tom C as #2 & to get the best out of a fine pick, Dave Wilson

Mohann
04-29-2012, 01:34 PM
Reese and Co. were very quiet about Wilson. I believe they had him rated higher than Martin. Reese admits getting lucky with Cruz, he seem honest after the fact. I believe him when he says they wanted Wilson. I think they did to Tampa Bay what they usually do to Philly. Kept it quiet about which RB they wanted and let TB jump them for the wrong guy.

Pakman
04-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Reese and Co. were very quiet about Wilson. I believe they had him rated higher than Martin. Reese admits getting lucky with Cruz, he seem honest after the fact. I believe him when he says they wanted Wilson. I think they did to Tampa Bay what they usually do to Philly. Kept it quiet about which RB they wanted and let TB jump them for the wrong guy.


Rese also said he was shocked that Randle was available. Seems like Reese is very honest after the fact, but you never know.

Can't believe we were thinking about taking Randle in the first!

Pakman
04-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Reese and Co. were very quiet about Wilson. I believe they had him rated higher than Martin. Reese admits getting lucky with Cruz, he seem honest after the fact. I believe him when he says they wanted Wilson. I think they did to Tampa Bay what they usually do to Philly. Kept it quiet about which RB they wanted and let TB jump them for the wrong guy.


Rese also said he was shocked that Randle was available. Seems like Reese is very honest after the fact, but you never know.

Can't believe we were thinking about taking Randle in the first!

RoanokeFan
04-29-2012, 01:43 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 01:49 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first.* That's why teams have draft boards that rank players.*

Then the report was wrong.

If Wilson was their #2 ranked back, then there is no scenario where they take Martin over Wilson

RoanokeFan
04-29-2012, 02:03 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players.

Then the report was wrong.

If Wilson was their #2 ranked back, then there is no scenario where they take Martin over Wilson

Reports are often wrong

NYGRealityCheck
04-29-2012, 02:08 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first.* That's why teams have draft boards that rank players.*

Then the report was wrong.

If Wilson was their #2 ranked back, then there is no scenario where they take Martin over Wilson

Backing that up giants.com style...

http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Final-Draft-Analysis-GM-Jerry-Reese/e40d2969-aec5-4eea-9f51-cd147cb3ca2f

Reeese said it himself. Wilson was the GIant's No. 2 RB on their draft board. (Trent Richardson was obviously No. 1, but impossible to get...)

Bohemian
04-29-2012, 02:09 PM
To me it is not an issue. I was happy with getting either one. I actually thought that neither would be available, and was thinking about the later rounds for a RB. I was really happy with the pick.

Manning2Niks
04-29-2012, 02:16 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first.* That's why teams have draft boards that rank players.*

Then the report was wrong.

If Wilson was their #2 ranked back, then there is no scenario where they take Martin over Wilson

Do we know Wilson was their #2 ranked back for certain, though?

I only ask because the one interview I saw with Reese was on YES with Papa, Toomer, and Banks and Reese said they had both Martin and Wilson very close but Wilson was the highest ranked player when they picked.

Now that can be interpreted a couple of ways, but now replace the name Martin with Richardson. It's not like we would have taken Wilson over Richardson if Richardson was available, but when we picked Wilson was the highest on the board, if you follow.

I'm by no means comparing any of those 3 backs, and I know they didn't rank Wilson or Martin close to Richardson, I'm just saying that after listening to Reese it sounded more like damage control after missing on the guy they truly wanted. To justify it they just point out that they didn't get someone ranked much lower than who they wanted.

It's kind of way to not shoot the kids confidence before even stepping on the field. "Well kid, we'd have preferred the other guy, but we settled for you cuz we couldn't have him. Now go suit up!" Not exactly a ringing endorsement. And def not something the fan base would want to hear.

Just my 2 cents though.

NYGRealityCheck
04-29-2012, 02:20 PM
The question on whether which running back is truly better than the other (Martin vs. Wilson) can only be really answered during the regular season.

giantsfan420
04-29-2012, 02:34 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first.* That's why teams have draft boards that rank players.*

Then the report was wrong.

If Wilson was their #2 ranked back, then there is no scenario where they take Martin over Wilson

Do we know Wilson was their #2 ranked back for certain, though?

I only ask because the one interview I saw with Reese was on YES with Papa, Toomer, and Banks and Reese said they had both Martin and Wilson very close but Wilson was the highest ranked player when they picked.

Now that can be interpreted a couple of ways, but now replace the name Martin with Richardson. It's not like we would have taken Wilson over Richardson if Richardson was available, but when we picked Wilson was the highest on the board, if you follow.

I'm by no means comparing any of those 3 backs, and I know they didn't rank Wilson or Martin close to Richardson, I'm just saying that after listening to Reese it sounded more like damage control after missing on the guy they truly wanted. To justify it they just point out that they didn't get someone ranked much lower than who they wanted.

It's kind of way to not shoot the kids confidence before even stepping on the field. "Well kid, we'd have preferred the other guy, but we settled for you cuz we couldn't have him. Now go suit up!" Not exactly a ringing endorsement. And def not something the fan base would want to hear.

Just my 2 cents though.

i think JR covets measurables. in that regard, Wilson has much more explosion, quickness, athleticism, and agility. really, wilson has elite qualities in that regard whereas Martin, while being well rounded, doesnt have a trait where you go "woah, thats off the chart".

I could totally see JR ranking Wilson above Martin in that regard. Martin just isnt in Wilsons league in terms of athleticism, agility, quickness, and explosion...

GMAN8625
04-29-2012, 02:36 PM
The competition Martin faced was pathetic. I think guys like him are tough to evaluate due to that. He's not gonna be dancing around guys in the NFL. Wilson will be more productive.

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 02:53 PM
I think the giants without doubt had Wilson above Martin. It's been verified by a couple different sources who were in the draft room.

Now. The other part of this is would they have drafted Wilson if Tampa didn't trade up and take Martin. I would argue they in fact would not have drafted Wilson. They would not have drafted Martin either. I would think they thought one of the two, Martin or Wilson may have fallen to them in the second, maybe there was a third back they had rated similarly. But Tampa scared them into thinking the value for the remaining HBs was late first early second. So they decided if they wanted a top back they had to take one then and there.

Who would they have drafted had Tampa not done what they did? Maybe they take Randle in the first... Ended up working out

moecoastie
04-29-2012, 04:00 PM
I think the giants without doubt had Wilson above Martin. It's been verified by a couple different sources who were in the draft room.

Now. The other part of this is would they have drafted Wilson if Tampa didn't trade up and take Martin. I would argue they in fact would not have drafted Wilson. They would not have drafted Martin either. I would think they thought one of the two, Martin or Wilson may have fallen to them in the second, maybe there was a third back they had rated similarly. But Tampa scared them into thinking the value for the remaining HBs was late first early second. So they decided if they wanted a top back they had to take one then and there.

Who would they have drafted had Tampa not done what they did? Maybe they take Randle in the first... Ended up working out

very possible. but like you, I agree it all worked out.

I still dont understand the debate of who the Giants would have drafted had they had both as a choice. JR CLEARLY answers that question in his press conf.

rainierjef
04-29-2012, 04:09 PM
I think the giants without doubt had Wilson above Martin. It's been verified by a couple different sources who were in the draft room.

Now. The other part of this is would they have drafted Wilson if Tampa didn't trade up and take Martin. I would argue they in fact would not have drafted Wilson. They would not have drafted Martin either. I would think they thought one of the two, Martin or Wilson may have fallen to them in the second, maybe there was a third back they had rated similarly. But Tampa scared them into thinking the value for the remaining HBs was late first early second. So they decided if they wanted a top back they had to take one then and there.

Who would they have drafted had Tampa not done what they did? Maybe they take Randle in the first... Ended up working out

this. the fact that he said they thought there was going to be a run on RB's in the second confirms this thought process. tampa syked us out of whatever pick we were probably going to pick naturally. imho

moecoastie
04-29-2012, 04:12 PM
I think the giants without doubt had Wilson above Martin. It's been verified by a couple different sources who were in the draft room.

Now. The other part of this is would they have drafted Wilson if Tampa didn't trade up and take Martin. I would argue they in fact would not have drafted Wilson. They would not have drafted Martin either. I would think they thought one of the two, Martin or Wilson may have fallen to them in the second, maybe there was a third back they had rated similarly. But Tampa scared them into thinking the value for the remaining HBs was late first early second. So they decided if they wanted a top back they had to take one then and there.

Who would they have drafted had Tampa not done what they did? Maybe they take Randle in the first... Ended up working out

this. the fact that he said they thought there was going to be a run on RB's in the second confirms this thought process. tampa syked us out of whatever pick we were probably going to pick naturally. imho


Im gonna go out on a limb and say at the end of the season, a lot of Giants fans will be sending TB a thank you letter.

THEGUNITGAME
04-29-2012, 04:17 PM
Good pick.

Drez
04-29-2012, 04:49 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]

Diamondring
04-29-2012, 05:12 PM
Wilson was a way better pick.

JPP
04-29-2012, 05:18 PM
Reese and Co. were very quiet about Wilson. I believe they had him rated higher than Martin. Reese admits getting lucky with Cruz, he seem honest after the fact. I believe him when he says they wanted Wilson. I think they did to Tampa Bay what they usually do to Philly. Kept it quiet about which RB they wanted and let TB jump them for the wrong guy.


I agree. Wasn't everyone worried that the Eagles jumped us and took our DE when we took JPP? I tend to think Wilson is the prototypical Giants pick but I was worried until I read up more about Wilson and realized the kind of athletic specimen he is.

BlueSanta
04-29-2012, 05:21 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]


The only guy I have seen report his is Schefter and he sighted no source. In fact, the way he presented it as fact was belittled by him later saying "Many think they jumped up to take him ahead of the Giants."

"many think" is code for "i have no source. I am just guessing here and I'm trying to stir the pot by create a story out of thin air."

All sources from inside the Giants camp say they had Wilson above Martin. Despite what many of the Martin guys around here believe, Reese was not alone. Quite a few scout's opinions varied on the RB rankings.

Manning2Niks
04-29-2012, 05:40 PM
I think the giants without doubt had Wilson above Martin. It's been verified by a couple different sources who were in the draft room.

Now. The other part of this is would they have drafted Wilson if Tampa didn't trade up and take Martin. I would argue they in fact would not have drafted Wilson. They would not have drafted Martin either. I would think they thought one of the two, Martin or Wilson may have fallen to them in the second, maybe there was a third back they had rated similarly. But Tampa scared them into thinking the value for the remaining HBs was late first early second. So they decided if they wanted a top back they had to take one then and there.

Who would they have drafted had Tampa not done what they did? Maybe they take Randle in the first... Ended up working out

Ooo...now that's a very interesting thought I didn't even fathom. That actually makes more sense based on what Reese said about Wilson and Martin being rated so closely.

If you are correct that we may have taken randle in the first if Martin wasnt taken then our FO has to be ECSTATIC over this draft because that means we got our top 2 choices for pick 32 without even trading.

Just like a super bowl team, a great front office has to rely a little on luck but at the end end of they day they are still the best of everyone.

Love this team. Front to back, top to bottom.

RoanokeFan
04-29-2012, 06:27 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]



It was in one of the myriad of related news articles I've been posting. I did take a quick to see if I could find it but came up shirt. Just one more failure in a long list of failures! It wasn't a "story" it was a mention and could well have been an opinion. We all (well most of us) know opinions are not always reliable.

I am going to time out now.

Drez
04-29-2012, 07:00 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]



It was in one of the myriad of related news articles I've been posting. I did take a quick to see if I could find it but came up shirt. Just one more failure in a long list of failures! It wasn't a "story" it was a mention and could well have been an opinion. We all (well most of us) know opinions are not always reliable.

I am going to time out now.

Yeah, someone above mentioned it was mentioned in a tweet from Schefter. I was just wondering if you had uncovered another report of that info in your daily news scouring, lol.

[B]

RoanokeFan
04-29-2012, 07:47 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]



It was in one of the myriad of related news articles I've been posting. I did take a quick to see if I could find it but came up shirt. Just one more failure in a long list of failures! It wasn't a "story" it was a mention and could well have been an opinion. We all (well most of us) know opinions are not always reliable.

I am going to time out now.

Yeah, someone above mentioned it was mentioned in a tweet from Schefter. I was just wondering if you had uncovered another report of that info in your daily news scouring, lol.

[B]


I hate to admit this, but when news is coming out of so many sources in rapid fire, I don't get to read the entirety of each article or who wrote it [:$]

RoanokeFan
04-29-2012, 07:56 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]


TA DA!!

http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/4/29/2986290/2012-nfl-draft-grades-mel-kiper-new-york-giants#storyjump

"ESPN NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper does not hate the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants)
2012 NFL Draft class, but he does not love it, either. In handing out his annual
NFL Draft grades, Kiper has given the Giants a C+ (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7823750/mel-kiper-gives-grades-every-nfl-team-draft).<div class="entry-body">


Wrote Kiper:</p>


"I had running back as the top need for the Giants, and they got one with
their first pick. David Wilson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/152687/david-wilson)
should be productive, but I think they really would have preferred Doug Martin.
I might have gone with an O-lineman there, but the Giants have capably kept
things patched up for a couple years, and will have to continue to do so,
because they didn't get a tackle until the fourth round. Brandon Mosley has a
shot (he's the No. 13-ranked offensive tackle on my board), but you don't want
him starting in Week 1. Rueben Randle lacks explosiveness, but he was a pretty
good value as the last pick in Round 2. Clearly, the NFL thought he'd be gone
far higher -- he was the last player in the green room. Jayron Hosley is a
really instinctive corner, and I wouldn't have thought he'd still be around
based on his sophomore year. But he regressed in 2011. He can cover, but he
lacks a physical element to his game. Some helpful pieces, but Wilson needs to
provide impact."</p>
<p class="extend-divide"><a name="storyjump"></a>http://cdn1.sbnation.com/images/blog/star-divide.v5e9d7f1.jpg</p>


<font color="#0000FF">Clearly, Kiper is right that the Giants would have selected Martin if Tampa
Bay had not. General manager Jerry Reese admitted there was one running back on
the Giants draft board rated higher than Wilson after Alabama's Trent Richardson
was taken, and that can only be Martin.</font></p>


Kiper never mentions Adrien Robinson, whom the Giants are clearly excited about (http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/4/29/2986157/adrien-robinson-new-york-giants-2012-nfl-draft-marc-ross-jerry-reese-tom-coughlin). </p>


In the end, we know these grades mean nothing. We just have to wait and see
how everything turns out."</p>

Since so many here agree with Kiper's rating of the GIANTS draft, musn't they also agree with his assertion here?
</p></div>

slipknottin
04-29-2012, 08:01 PM
Where did Reese admit that Wilson was the 3rd HB on their board?

Drez
04-29-2012, 08:06 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]


TA DA!!

http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/4/29/2986290/2012-nfl-draft-grades-mel-kiper-new-york-giants#storyjump

"ESPN NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper does not hate the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants)
2012 NFL Draft class, but he does not love it, either. In handing out his annual
NFL Draft grades, Kiper has given the Giants a C+ (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7823750/mel-kiper-gives-grades-every-nfl-team-draft).<div class="entry-body">


Wrote Kiper:</p>


"I had running back as the top need for the Giants, and they got one with
their first pick. David Wilson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/152687/david-wilson)
should be productive, but I think they really would have preferred Doug Martin.
I might have gone with an O-lineman there, but the Giants have capably kept
things patched up for a couple years, and will have to continue to do so,
because they didn't get a tackle until the fourth round. Brandon Mosley has a
shot (he's the No. 13-ranked offensive tackle on my board), but you don't want
him starting in Week 1. Rueben Randle lacks explosiveness, but he was a pretty
good value as the last pick in Round 2. Clearly, the NFL thought he'd be gone
far higher -- he was the last player in the green room. Jayron Hosley is a
really instinctive corner, and I wouldn't have thought he'd still be around
based on his sophomore year. But he regressed in 2011. He can cover, but he
lacks a physical element to his game. Some helpful pieces, but Wilson needs to
provide impact."</p>
<p class="extend-divide"><a name="storyjump"></a>http://cdn1.sbnation.com/images/blog/star-divide.v5e9d7f1.jpg</p>


<font color="#0000FF">Clearly, Kiper is right that the Giants would have selected Martin if Tampa
Bay had not. General manager Jerry Reese admitted there was one running back on
the Giants draft board rated higher than Wilson after Alabama's Trent Richardson
was taken, and that can only be Martin.</font></p>


Kiper never mentions Adrien Robinson, whom the Giants are clearly excited about (http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/4/29/2986157/adrien-robinson-new-york-giants-2012-nfl-draft-marc-ross-jerry-reese-tom-coughlin). </p>


In the end, we know these grades mean nothing. We just have to wait and see
how everything turns out."</p>

Since so many here agree with Kiper's rating of the GIANTS draft, musn't they also agree with his assertion here?
</p></div>

I think the author got things mixed up. Every quote of Reese I have seen has said that they had Wilson as the second best back in the draft, not second after you remove Richardson from the equation, stemming from JR's quote that he only "had one back rated higher than Wilson."

Morehead State
04-29-2012, 08:06 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. Then the report was wrong. If Wilson was their #2 ranked back, then there is no scenario where they take Martin over Wilson

Reports are often wrong
</P>


Morehead had Wilson over Martin, so its logical that JR did as well. </P>


Obviously, JR reads all of Moreheads posts.</P>


Martin is "solid". Wilson is "special". Or at least potentially so for both guys.</P>


And as I said since Monday, the Boise State thing bugs me. Not a lot of good pros from that program.</P>


</P>


P.S. The "JR read my posts" comment was a joke, but the romantic in me wants to believe it.</P>

Morehead State
04-29-2012, 08:09 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]


The only guy I have seen report his is Schefter and he sighted no source. In fact, the way he presented it as fact was belittled by him later saying "Many think they jumped up to take him ahead of the Giants."

"many think" is code for "i have no source. I am just guessing here and I'm trying to stir the pot by create a story out of thin air."

All sources from inside the Giants camp say they had Wilson above Martin. Despite what many of the Martin guys around here believe, Reese was not alone. Quite a few scout's opinions varied on the RB rankings.
</P>


Tampa could very well have believed the Giants were drafting Martin and jumped ahead of them. But the Giants (nor any team) don't have a habit of telling other teams how they have rated potential draftees. </P>


In other words, Tampa was probably just wrong about what the Giants were going to do.</P>

NYGRealityCheck
04-29-2012, 08:21 PM
Jerry Reese stated twice in his Final Draft Analysis to the media that Tampa jumping in front of the Giants to steal Martin from them is "not true". I'm gonna go with that.
Anyway arguing this is like arguing whether the Giants wanted to go for the TD or FG near the end of the SuperBowl...

It is what it is.
Also, even if.., there was nothing the Giants could have done to prevent that. What were the Giants going to do to better Tampa's trade offer to the Broncos to get the 31st spot? Gift an Eli Manning jersey?

David Wilson is on the Giants
Doug Martin is on the Bucs.

Best of Luck to both RBs, but much more luck to David Wilson of course...

TheEnigma
04-29-2012, 08:27 PM
Gotta believe Reese on this one. While Martin is the better RB coming out as of now due to being more polished and balanced, Wilson has the physical tools to be a better player at the NFL level.

Though to be fair, what kind of GM would outright admit to getting jumped? It doesn't exactly send a good message and would cause fans to be more critical.

It's like Holmgren and trading up to #3. It's obvious to everyone Spielman pulled a fast one on him by creating a "market" for Trent Richardson that never existed but Holmgren refuses to admit that happened and stands by trusting Minnesota.

Drez
04-29-2012, 08:30 PM
Gotta believe Reese on this one. While Martin is the better RB coming out as of now due to being more polished and balanced, Wilson has the physical tools to be a better player at the NFL level.

Though to be fair, what kind of GM would outright admit to getting jumped? It doesn't exactly send a good message and would cause fans to be more critical.

It's like Holmgren and trading up to #3. It's obvious to everyone Spielman pulled a fast one on him by creating a "market" for Trent Richardson that never existed but Holmgren refuses to admit that happened and stands by trusting Minnesota.
He (or at least someone in the war room) admitted on getting jumped by the Eagles on Maclin. Don't see why this would be any different.

Though, we definitely got the better end of that deal.

RoanokeFan
04-29-2012, 08:31 PM
It has been reported that Martin would have been their selection had Tampa not leap frogged and taken him first. That's why teams have draft boards that rank players. If all teams had to do was cherry pick the players they wanted to draft we wouldn't need a draft.

The GIANTS are excellent developers of talent. Wilson has talent and is the answer to the loss of Brandon Jacobs. He is said to be more like Tiki Barber than Jacobs and, if that's true, we won.

By who? Everything I've seen says that they had Wilson rated higher than Martin all along. Do you think you can provide a link, o' master of links? [;)]


TA DA!!

http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/4/29/2986290/2012-nfl-draft-grades-mel-kiper-new-york-giants#storyjump

"ESPN NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper does not hate the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants)
2012 NFL Draft class, but he does not love it, either. In handing out his annual
NFL Draft grades, Kiper has given the Giants a C+ (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7823750/mel-kiper-gives-grades-every-nfl-team-draft).<div class="entry-body">


Wrote Kiper:</p>


"I had running back as the top need for the Giants, and they got one with
their first pick. David Wilson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/152687/david-wilson)
should be productive, but I think they really would have preferred Doug Martin.
I might have gone with an O-lineman there, but the Giants have capably kept
things patched up for a couple years, and will have to continue to do so,
because they didn't get a tackle until the fourth round. Brandon Mosley has a
shot (he's the No. 13-ranked offensive tackle on my board), but you don't want
him starting in Week 1. Rueben Randle lacks explosiveness, but he was a pretty
good value as the last pick in Round 2. Clearly, the NFL thought he'd be gone
far higher -- he was the last player in the green room. Jayron Hosley is a
really instinctive corner, and I wouldn't have thought he'd still be around
based on his sophomore year. But he regressed in 2011. He can cover, but he
lacks a physical element to his game. Some helpful pieces, but Wilson needs to
provide impact."</p>
<p class="extend-divide"><a name="storyjump"></a>http://cdn1.sbnation.com/images/blog/star-divide.v5e9d7f1.jpg</p>


<font color="#0000FF">Clearly, Kiper is right that the Giants would have selected Martin if Tampa
Bay had not. General manager Jerry Reese admitted there was one running back on
the Giants draft board rated higher than Wilson after Alabama's Trent Richardson
was taken, and that can only be Martin.</font></p>


Kiper never mentions Adrien Robinson, whom the Giants are clearly excited about (http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/4/29/2986157/adrien-robinson-new-york-giants-2012-nfl-draft-marc-ross-jerry-reese-tom-coughlin). </p>


In the end, we know these grades mean nothing. We just have to wait and see
how everything turns out."</p>

Since so many here agree with Kiper's rating of the GIANTS draft, musn't they also agree with his assertion here?
</p></div>

I think the author got things mixed up. Every quote of Reese I have seen has said that they had Wilson as the second best back in the draft, not second after you remove Richardson from the equation, stemming from JR's quote that he only "had one back rated higher than Wilson."


We, me included, tend to put far too much stock in these media head reports. If, as Slip has said, Jerry Reese has indicated otherwise, I'd go with Reese, hands down.

TheEnigma
04-29-2012, 08:34 PM
Gotta believe Reese on this one. While Martin is the better RB coming out as of now due to being more polished and balanced, Wilson has the physical tools to be a better player at the NFL level.

Though to be fair, what kind of GM would outright admit to getting jumped? It doesn't exactly send a good message and would cause fans to be more critical.

It's like Holmgren and trading up to #3. It's obvious to everyone Spielman pulled a fast one on him by creating a "market" for Trent Richardson that never existed but Holmgren refuses to admit that happened and stands by trusting Minnesota.
He (or at least someone in the war room) admitted on getting jumped by the Eagles on Maclin. Don't see why this would be any different.

Though, we definitely got the better end of that deal.
It's more so the timing. GM's can admit those "mistakes" later but they are very adamant to do so right away. I believe Reese here but what I'm saying is I can understand if someone else doesn't. GM's can have egos and might try to convince even themselves that they didn't lose on a deal.

Mohann
04-29-2012, 09:46 PM
Gotta believe Reese on this one. While Martin is the better RB coming out as of now due to being more polished and balanced, Wilson has the physical tools to be a better player at the NFL level.

Though to be fair, what kind of GM would outright admit to getting jumped? It doesn't exactly send a good message and would cause fans to be more critical.

It's like Holmgren and trading up to #3. It's obvious to everyone Spielman pulled a fast one on him by creating a "market" for Trent Richardson that never existed but Holmgren refuses to admit that happened and stands by trusting Minnesota.
He (or at least someone in the war room) admitted on getting jumped by the Eagles on Maclin. Don't see why this would be any different.

Though, we definitely got the better end of that deal.
It's more so the timing. GM's can admit those "mistakes" later but they are very adamant to do so right away. I believe Reese here but what I'm saying is I can understand if someone else doesn't. GM's can have egos and might try to convince even themselves that they didn't lose on a deal.

How is a team trading over Reese a mistake by Reese? What is it that makes you think Reese is lying?

giantsfan420
04-29-2012, 10:02 PM
Gotta believe Reese on this one. While Martin is the better RB coming out as of now due to being more polished and balanced, Wilson has the physical tools to be a better player at the NFL level.

Though to be fair, what kind of GM would outright admit to getting jumped? It doesn't exactly send a good message and would cause fans to be more critical.

It's like Holmgren and trading up to #3. It's obvious to everyone Spielman pulled a fast one on him by creating a "market" for Trent Richardson that never existed but Holmgren refuses to admit that happened and stands by trusting Minnesota.
He (or at least someone in the war room) admitted on getting jumped by the Eagles on Maclin. Don't see why this would be any different.

Though, we definitely got the better end of that deal.
It's more so the timing. GM's can admit those "mistakes" later but they are very adamant to do so right away. I believe Reese here but what I'm saying is I can understand if someone else doesn't. GM's can have egos and might try to convince even themselves that they didn't lose on a deal.

How is a team trading over Reese a mistake by Reese? What is it that makes you think Reese is lying?


i dunno if enigma is talking about JR in this instance. An example of what he's saying is how Holmgren is saying how he made the right move in trading with the Vikings i believe to get Richardson. Holmgren gave up 4 picks to move up one slot, when the team in that slot wasnt even remotely interested in richardson.
its blatant to everyone Holmgren got fleeced, but to protect his ego, he'll say how the deal was necessary and that they got the player they wanted etc etc.

JR like u said, didnt make a mistake like if he wanted Martin but drafted Wilson when Martin was available and mucked up (i know thats not how the situation was just giving a just suppose)

TheEnigma
04-29-2012, 11:32 PM
Let me clarify what I mean.

Two guys are watching the NFL draft together and are huge giants fans who keep track of all the information about their team. Knowing that the Giants value RBs who have an all around game, a safe assumption is made that Doug Martin would be an ideal prospect that Reese and co would covet.

Suddenly, the Buccaneers trade up to the 31st selection and select Doug Martin. Quite a bummer but there are still some very good players on the board! The 32nd pick is then announced to be David Wilson, the RB from VT. Wait a minute, this guy was mocked to be around the mid to late 2nd round on most boards. Why would Reese make this selection?

Reese then releases his statement mentioning that while Wilson was the BPA on their board, they also were looking to trade back if they were offered the "mother load". He also mentions that they felt a run on the RB position would occur.

This leads to a decent argument that Reese possibly panicked when Martin came off the board and took Wilson instead of another more talented player due to this predicted frenzy of RBs in round 2. Hence he reached for a player he really didn't want.

Guy A thinks more about this situation and decides to do some additional research. Compared to the rest of the RB class, Wilson is top 5 in most physical measurables with his speed, agility, and is even a good receiver out of the backfield. Wait a minute, this is a Reese like selection who would view such a prospect as a BPA with his natural abilities. Wilson was rated higher than Martin on their board and based on Reese's track record, he is telling the truth.

Guy B on the other hand knows that GMs are famous for lying, especially around draft time. It's a well known fact to him that many GMs will stick to the BPA argument as it is the easiest to present and rarely do GMs openly admit their mistakes. Good examples of this would be A.J. Smith of the Chargers or Mike Holmgren this year with the Trent Richardson deal. Reese did say he wanted to trade back initially so Wilson must of been his Plan B and if he was the BPA, why wouldn't he of handed his card in right away? Reese is clearly lying.

I am Guy A but I can also understand where Guy B is coming from even though I think he is wrong.