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View Full Version : GIANTS' DE OSI UMENYIORA RIPS GM JERRY REESE, SAYING GM IS MAKING HIM LOOK LIKE A "GREEDY PIG"



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GameTime
05-01-2012, 08:52 PM
Osi tried to get his trade last year for a #1 pick. No team took that. He then had a knee injury get better just when he knew the Giants would prob make the playoffs. He played great for nine games.</P>


So he got paid for what was eventually a20 game season with only 9 games played. Not a bad deal. And he didnt even have to practice much either. </P>


he got paid a bunch of money in the first years of his contact. Now he has to deal with what he agreed to do. </P>


</P>

DVision
05-01-2012, 08:57 PM
How will Osi sitting out a season help him get the large long term deal he's looking for next season when he will be valued as simply a pass rusher who is a year removed from football and a year older? Again, his best bet is to enter FA having had a strong season! A year out of football uninury related for a 9 year vet is not a bad thing. I agree playing next year and having a strong season is the most direct route to a new big contract. This is part of the reason he got such a lo offer with the extensions. If he feels the money isn't worth the risk he can sit out. Based on his body of work he will still land a big contract, just not as big.</P>


Wow.....the NFL may disagree that it's "not a bad thing".*That's why fines were raised significantly in the last bargaining agreement.</P>


Holding out also harms your value to other teams.* GM's shy away from holdouts and media divas.*Standing up for your principals is one thing....losing LARGE sums of cash doing it is quite another!* There is no good that can come from holding out for Osi.*</P>


The rules of the contract between player and owner have been this way for years.* The*Giants hold all the cards and that's just the way it is.* Osi got a big payday and he should honor his current contract and STFU!!* Let him play like he deserves the money*he thinks he's worth and EARN it!!**He isn't*OWED anything.</P>




basically. (And I am an Osi fan, but this is just a bit much)
</P>


I disagree.* Vincent Jackson didn't have any*problem finding a new team.* His hold out with SD was widely publicised.* If Osi get's hurt this year and has to retire then he is out of luck and for what?**Less than he's worth.* At 31 he is correct in placing priority on his market value.* </P>


Lets say Osi plays for $5.85 million and gets hurt.* He gets the money for the year and has to retire.**Let's say*he holds out all year and signs a contract with a team*the following*year for $10 million a year and get's hurt in the*first year of his contract and has to retire.* </P>


Present value of that 10 million is about $8.5 million.* Lets say he only gets $7 mill.* PV is still almost $6.5 mill.* Now you have to subtract the money he could of made had he played his contract out.* So the total present value of the move would be roughly +$2.67 million if he got a $10 million/ year contract and +$610K if he got a 7 million dollar contract.* I'm not even factoring in the garaunteed money he will get with the new contract as a signing bonus, etc.</P>


I'd say he needs to find out what his market value is.* I don't know exactly but it makes all the difference for*a guy with probably 3-4 years of football left in him.</P>

As I said before, Vincent Jackson sat out the majority of the season 2 years ago and then followed it up with a 60 catch 1,000+ yard season before he entered the Free Agent market. Osi would be coming from not playing to Free Agency. Big difference!

VJ would have received high demand w/o the season you list. He didn't get payed based on that one season he got paid based on his career in its entirety. One year from now Osi will still be able to bring the heat and he will get a big contract whether he plays next year or not.

VJ would not have gotten the money he received had he not played and played well. Most likely he would have gotten a short deal to see if he still had it as usually is the case with players who are out of the league or returning from injury and are on the market. VJ is also still south of 30 without an injury history. And lastly VJ is known as a complete receiver while Osi, (whether warranted or not) is looked at as a pass rusher. Again big difference! Osi does not have that luxury.

DVision
05-01-2012, 09:01 PM
It's really very simple.* The organization had made Osi and offer and he can accept, reject, or counter offer.** If Osi rejects the offer, then he has one more year to play on his contract.* As you say, Osi can hold out all season to the tune of $30K a day.* So on top of not making his salary which he agreed to play for he will, additionally, have to cough up the daily fine.

If, as has been suggested, Osi is right to do the best he can for his family, how does holding out accomplish that?

<font color="#0000ff">I would hold out on principle if I were Osi</font>, rather than playing for less than what I'm worth, especially since I gave my all fore 9 years. His current contract should give him and his family that kind of financial flexibility. The same way Vincent Jackson held out. The same way Carson Palmer walked away from Cincy. You can't allows these teams to bully you as a player. So if you put two sub-par offers on the table after all Osi's done over 9 years to help the Giants when 2 SBs and many games, and on top of that you offer a less accomplished player a better contract then Osi doesn't owe the team anything. As a fan I think JR is doing the right thing by the team. As a man I can see how Osi feels slighted by mediocre extension offers when he's been a Rock Star pass rusher.

Help me out here, exactly what principle would you be talking about.* He took the money he got in the front loaded $41M contract HE SIGNED.* Front loaded means you get most of the largese in the first few years and then things level out.* The contract had a start date and an end date.* The end date is a year from now.

Osi has been complaining about this contract since he signed it.* He has whined about how terrible the GIANTS have been and continue to be.* he has taken his plight to the press and the public and has gotten nothing for that effort other than many of us now just wish he'd go away.

The only principle involved in this entire Osi created fiasco is the principle that grown men of good faith honor the contracts into which they enter.* Osi doesn't want to play by the rules unless he makes the rules to be followed.

Hundreds of players go through this process every year and very few of them are handled in the press except when the announcement is made that a deal is done.* Examples os such players are Kiwanuka and Cruz.* Two players who are at different points along the salary continuum but who nonetheless manage to play football while those entrusted with representing them, represent them.

Osi has brought all of this negativity to bear.* His supporters suggest it's not a distraction.* Others suggest he's putting himself before the team by publicly airing his dirty laundry.* Whichever position you take, it's a situation that sucks.

Osi needs to shut up and play or hold out.* His choice.* For those you hoping he holds out to prove a point you may want to solve the cash flow issues that will cause him and the family you say he's "only trying to support."* He can't have it both ways.
</p>


It just shocks me that a few posters are actually pointing out the minutia of JR stating the truth, (that Osi was offered extensions) and suggesting that this is some kind of inappropriate use of the media.</p>


Osi accused JR of being a liar during the lock out.* He then continued his whining and complaining when he finally reported (with an undisclosed knee injury).* And has continued his public war on JR since.</p>


So now JR goes out and answers a question with a true and benign comment and its THIS that a few kooky posters point out.</p>


There is nothing in this world that makes otherwise smart people more stupid, more quickly, than a blinding agenda.</p>


All of this you signed a contract and you must honor it talk is BULLOX! If any team feels a player is underperforming he can get cut, no matter what contract you signed. You can even play well, but If a team finds somebody that can play better you can be released. The team doesn't honor the contract regardless of how you play or what injuries you've sustained so why the heck should the player be held to such a high standard of honor. Every play is career threatening for a player. As a player you owe it to yourself and your family to get full market value for your abilities, unless your priority is winning a championship over getting paid. JR held out the two contract extension offers as if they were olive branches extended to Osi. A sign of the team willing to pay him what he's worth. C'mon guys, why in God's name would we pay Osi like a starter when we have to resign JPP. It's obvious from the Kiwi deal we had no intention of resigning Osi. JPP is our guy Kiwi is his back up in case of injury. He had to get paid more than a back up b/c he also plays SAM. We simply don't have the money to pay Osi and the extensions reflected this reality not what Osi is really worth. We didn't sincerely attempt to resign him. JR's "reitre as a Giant" line was BS and he knows it. We want him to play out his contract which undervalues him as a DE compared to what other DE of his talent currently make even if you smooth the numbers to account for the front loaded contract. Forget about front loaded or back loaded. Give me the average annual income for the life of the contract then compare that to what the top 10 DE make. I don't have to do this b/c logic tells me that market for DE's has appreciated in the past 7 years. So common sense should tell you he's playing for less than he's worth. The Giants make business decisions all the time; letting SS walk, BJ, Boss, and MM walk as well. Why shouldn't a player also make business decisions. If Osi has managed his money well it his perogative to say I'm worth more than your paying me and I can miss next season easy financially and find a team that's willing to pay me what I'm worth. I find no fault in anything he does. This is business. JR is doing his job as GM but lets not pretend he is the honorable one in this battle and cry baby Osi has no honor. After 9 years of battle Osi is a Giant for life an all time GIANT, forget what these fools on this board are talking about. That is a joke.</p>


Excellent points.</p>


"Disgruntled Osi" played his *** off last season....he's been a big piece of 2 Super Bowl Champions.</p>


He's got every right to speak his mind.* As I've said (a million times) I wish he and Reese could keep this stuff in house.* But it's laughable that people get on Osi for responding to something JR said....and it's a fact that his latest comments were a direct response to what Reese said.</p>


I'm not siding with Osi over Reese..... I'm saying I understand his side of the issue.</p>


*</p>


What is laughable is the fact that it's OK for Osi to spout his business to anyone that will listen, but people get on JR for finally responding...it's a fact that JR's only comment was a direct response to the myriad of times Osi has discussed his grievances with the media! You can say your not siding with Osi, but your comment says otherwise.</p>


I've probably said a dozen times that I wished Osi would put a lid on it.* </p>


I also*questioned the wisdom of Reese discussing this in the media; specifically, that Osi had rejected two offers....like I said, I think that was*unproductive and unnecessary.* Osi is a great player, with a major league burr up his *** about his contract.....* it's natural to assume any public comments by Reese on the negotiations will prompt a reaction by Osi.</p>


I think both parties should keep this in house, as I've repeatedly said.</p>

Again though Reese's only public statement on Osi was that one response to a question asked of him. A question I'm sure he's tired of hearing, as he has said over and over "Osi is still under contract..." And a question that would never have been presented to him in the first place if not for Osi's public rants.

I don't find what he said to be nearly as over the top as some of the things Osi's said. It is just as natural that after listening to Osi's rants, being called a liar by the man, and being questioned about it repeatedly the situation was bound to prompt a response from Reese!

We both agree on the keeping it in house, <font color="#0000FF">but it's been 2 years of the same and this is the 1st time Reese even mentioned the offers.</font>

And finally as much as I like Osi's play making ability the fact that he wants top 5 DE money a season after he only played 9 games (mostly because he was more concerned about his contract then getting necessary knee surgery during the off season) makes him look like a "greedy pig"! Not Reese's statement.

Not true, it was widely reported last year that Osi turned down about $1M in incentives because he was demanding his contact be reworked.* Reese just doesn't believe in doing this stuff publicly.* And yet, if all the media reports is Osi's version, the perception gets skewed.* It was entirely appropriate to respond to the question.


I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I meant that this is the first time he himself responded to the question to the media. I agree it was appropriate for Reese to respond. That's what I was saying in my reply. We're on the same page.

B&RWarrior
05-01-2012, 09:08 PM
That's how the contracts are written.* That's why agents now fight for as much guaranteed money as they can.* The contract language allows for teams to cut players and, yet, players continue to sign those contracts.* Please explain how teams are not honoring the contracts?

This is a "what have you done for me lately" competitive environment.* I suspect Mario Manningham would still be here if Victor Cruz had not burst onto the scene.* That's how it works.



*</p>


<font color="#0000FF">I'm saying the argument that Osi would be wrong for holding out has no merit and their is nothing dishonorable about his actions.* It's business.* </font>The fact that players conitnue to sign contracts which far exceed any amount of income they would earn in any other occupation is not surprising.* The benefits far outwiegh the flaws in the system.**IMO, in a profession with such a high risk of career ending injuries taking place a premium should be placed on market value from a player's perspective.* The same way a team can cut a player for not performing,*a player can cut ties with a team for not paying him what they feel they are worth- contract or no contract. </p>


If we didn't draft JPP we wouldn't be having this conversation.* You can bet your money JR*would have signed *Osi and given him a more lucrative extension.* We would have reworked his current contract and* not wait until his deal expired.* Now that we have JPP and Kiwi at our disposal we have the luxury of playing hardball but it doesn't change Osi's value it just chnages the tactics which we use with players not seen as a priority.** </p>

Osi would be guilty of breach of contract.* Maybe in your world that's OK, but in the real business world, not so much.

If players want a clause that allows them to walk away from their team WHILE under contract, they need to insert language to allow that.*

You have just described the benefits of a free enterprise system.*


.The NFL is not the real business world that's the concept you fail to grasp. If it was then teams could prosecute players under the letter of the law. As it stands teams can fine players, but they have no real legal recourse if players hold out.

The benefits of a free enterprise system are also that if I have a unique and marketable talent in high demand that I can gain leverage in negotiations by using my talent when and where I see fit. The rules to the game are superceded by my talent in certain instances. It's the beauty of capitalism.

As a player I'm not as educated as the ownership or FO team of any team, nor am I as skilled in the way of contract negotiations or asssessing my value. However, I am the one that makes the plays. The fans come to watch me. I am the product therefore I have great power as long as I am dominant. Great agents use this power for their players all the time.

Martin
05-01-2012, 09:17 PM
Osi has no leverage whatsoever. He can holdout and lose money on a daily basis, he can come in and ride the bike, he can decide to not play next season. None of them will help him or his cause. Maybe if he would have kept his mouth shut from the beginning, he could play an entire 16 games, and he was open to contributing and doing whatever was asked of him without complaining he'd had received an offer like Kiwi.

His best bet is to play out of his mind his final year and look for a good deal as a FA.


I don't feel sorry for him . He is a millionaire
but I do understand his frustration.

JR is in the drivers seat and Osi doesnt like it.
The truth is theres nothin he can do about except what you said.

Play amazing for the duration and land
a big deal in FA. The problem for him is he
knows his age at that time will not give him
the pay day he thinks he should have now.

He is between a rock and a hard place.

It may be a good idea to budget his money
and start thinking about movies or sportscasting.

:)

RoanokeFan
05-01-2012, 09:21 PM
That's how the contracts are written. That's why agents now fight for as much guaranteed money as they can. The contract language allows for teams to cut players and, yet, players continue to sign those contracts. Please explain how teams are not honoring the contracts?

This is a "what have you done for me lately" competitive environment. I suspect Mario Manningham would still be here if Victor Cruz had not burst onto the scene. That's how it works.



</p>


<font color="#0000FF">I'm saying the argument that Osi would be wrong for holding out has no merit and their is nothing dishonorable about his actions. It's business. </font>The fact that players conitnue to sign contracts which far exceed any amount of income they would earn in any other occupation is not surprising. The benefits far outwiegh the flaws in the system.IMO, in a profession with such a high risk of career ending injuries taking place a premium should be placed on market value from a player's perspective. The same way a team can cut a player for not performing,a player can cut ties with a team for not paying him what they feel they are worth- contract or no contract. </p>


If we didn't draft JPP we wouldn't be having this conversation. You can bet your money JRwould have signed Osi and given him a more lucrative extension. We would have reworked his current contract and not wait until his deal expired. Now that we have JPP and Kiwi at our disposal we have the luxury of playing hardball but it doesn't change Osi's value it just chnages the tactics which we use with players not seen as a priority. </p>

Osi would be guilty of breach of contract. Maybe in your world that's OK, but in the real business world, not so much.

If players want a clause that allows them to walk away from their team WHILE under contract, they need to insert language to allow that.

You have just described the benefits of a free enterprise system.


.The NFL is not the real business world that's the concept you fail to grasp. If it was then teams could prosecute players under the letter of the law. As it stands teams can fine players, but they have no real legal recourse if players hold out.

The benefits of a free enterprise system are also that if I have a unique and marketable talent in high demand that I can gain leverage in negotiations by using my talent when and where I see fit. The rules to the game are superceded by my talent in certain instances. It's the beauty of capitalism.

As a player I'm not as educated as the ownership or FO team of any team, nor am I as skilled in the way of contract negotiations or asssessing my value. However, I am the one that makes the plays. The fans come to watch me. I am the product therefore I have great power as long as I am dominant. Great agents use this power for their players all the time.

The NFL is not a real business world? OK.

B&RWarrior
05-01-2012, 09:22 PM
How will Osi sitting out a season help him get the large long term deal he's looking for next season when he will be valued as simply a pass rusher who is a year removed from football and a year older? Again, his best bet is to enter FA having had a strong season! A year out of football uninury related for a 9 year vet is not a bad thing. I agree playing next year and having a strong season is the most direct route to a new big contract. This is part of the reason he got such a lo offer with the extensions. If he feels the money isn't worth the risk he can sit out. Based on his body of work he will still land a big contract, just not as big.</P>


Wow.....the NFL may disagree that it's "not a bad thing".*That's why fines were raised significantly in the last bargaining agreement.</P>


Holding out also harms your value to other teams.* GM's shy away from holdouts and media divas.*Standing up for your principals is one thing....losing LARGE sums of cash doing it is quite another!* There is no good that can come from holding out for Osi.*</P>


The rules of the contract between player and owner have been this way for years.* The*Giants hold all the cards and that's just the way it is.* Osi got a big payday and he should honor his current contract and STFU!!* Let him play like he deserves the money*he thinks he's worth and EARN it!!**He isn't*OWED anything.</P>




basically. (And I am an Osi fan, but this is just a bit much)
</P>


I disagree.* Vincent Jackson didn't have any*problem finding a new team.* His hold out with SD was widely publicised.* If Osi get's hurt this year and has to retire then he is out of luck and for what?**Less than he's worth.* At 31 he is correct in placing priority on his market value.* </P>


Lets say Osi plays for $5.85 million and gets hurt.* He gets the money for the year and has to retire.**Let's say*he holds out all year and signs a contract with a team*the following*year for $10 million a year and get's hurt in the*first year of his contract and has to retire.* </P>


Present value of that 10 million is about $8.5 million.* Lets say he only gets $7 mill.* PV is still almost $6.5 mill.* Now you have to subtract the money he could of made had he played his contract out.* So the total present value of the move would be roughly +$2.67 million if he got a $10 million/ year contract and +$610K if he got a 7 million dollar contract.* I'm not even factoring in the garaunteed money he will get with the new contract as a signing bonus, etc.</P>


I'd say he needs to find out what his market value is.* I don't know exactly but it makes all the difference for*a guy with probably 3-4 years of football left in him.</P>

As I said before, Vincent Jackson sat out the majority of the season 2 years ago and then followed it up with a 60 catch 1,000+ yard season before he entered the Free Agent market. Osi would be coming from not playing to Free Agency. Big difference!

VJ would have received high demand w/o the season you list. He didn't get payed based on that one season he got paid based on his career in its entirety. One year from now Osi will still be able to bring the heat and he will get a big contract whether he plays next year or not.

VJ would not have gotten the money he received had he not played and played well. Most likely he would have gotten a short deal to see if he still had it as usually is the case with players who are out of the league or returning from injury and are on the market. VJ is also still south of 30 without an injury history. And lastly VJ is known as a complete receiver while Osi, (whether warranted or not) is looked at as a pass rusher. Again big difference! Osi does not have that luxury.

I think your wrong. Teams don't sign players to big contracts based on one year of performance. VJ got $26 million garaunteed. No team is going put up that kind of cash off of one year of play. Your kidding yourself if you think he got a $55 million deal based one season. He put those kind of numbers up for 3 years and that's why he got paid.

Look at the contract Peyton got after missing an entire year and that is coming off a serious injury. You don't need any more proof that a year off doesn't neccessarily hurt your market value.

Osi's value will be no less than it is now if he holds out. His 8 year career is proof enough of his ability. Remember they bring these players in for physicals and workouts to see if they still have it.

Martin
05-01-2012, 09:24 PM
I also find it funny that Osi can go in front of the cameras and on the radio and complain as much as he wants, but JR answers a question brought up to him in a presser involving Osi and he flips!

Osi wants out and he sees this as the shortest path.
</P>


It makes total business sense to want to leave the problem is he can't.
He knows age it the factor now.</P>


Osi is trying for one morebig deal but its not in the cards for him
and by the time his a FA his age will get him a small deal.

And I imagineKiwi's new contract is burning him up. But Kiwi is younger
more versatile and doesnt have a big mouth.</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>

B&RWarrior
05-01-2012, 09:31 PM
That's how the contracts are written.* That's why agents now fight for as much guaranteed money as they can.* The contract language allows for teams to cut players and, yet, players continue to sign those contracts.* Please explain how teams are not honoring the contracts?

This is a "what have you done for me lately" competitive environment.* I suspect Mario Manningham would still be here if Victor Cruz had not burst onto the scene.* That's how it works.



*</p>


<font color="#0000FF">I'm saying the argument that Osi would be wrong for holding out has no merit and their is nothing dishonorable about his actions.* It's business.* </font>The fact that players conitnue to sign contracts which far exceed any amount of income they would earn in any other occupation is not surprising.* The benefits far outwiegh the flaws in the system.**IMO, in a profession with such a high risk of career ending injuries taking place a premium should be placed on market value from a player's perspective.* The same way a team can cut a player for not performing,*a player can cut ties with a team for not paying him what they feel they are worth- contract or no contract. </p>


If we didn't draft JPP we wouldn't be having this conversation.* You can bet your money JR*would have signed *Osi and given him a more lucrative extension.* We would have reworked his current contract and* not wait until his deal expired.* Now that we have JPP and Kiwi at our disposal we have the luxury of playing hardball but it doesn't change Osi's value it just chnages the tactics which we use with players not seen as a priority.** </p>

Osi would be guilty of breach of contract.* Maybe in your world that's OK, but in the real business world, not so much.

If players want a clause that allows them to walk away from their team WHILE under contract, they need to insert language to allow that.*

You have just described the benefits of a free enterprise system.*


.The NFL is not the real business world that's the concept you fail to grasp. If it was then teams could prosecute players under the letter of the law. As it stands teams can fine players, but they have no real legal recourse if players hold out.

The benefits of a free enterprise system are also that if I have a unique and marketable talent in high demand that I can gain leverage in negotiations by using my talent when and where I see fit. The rules to the game are superceded by my talent in certain instances. It's the beauty of capitalism.

As a player I'm not as educated as the ownership or FO team of any team, nor am I as skilled in the way of contract negotiations or asssessing my value. However, I am the one that makes the plays. The fans come to watch me. I am the product therefore I have great power as long as I am dominant. Great agents use this power for their players all the time.

The NFL is not a real business world?* OK.


In the real business world breach of contract is a prosecutable offense under contract law. The NFL doesn't hold it's players to this standard. Hence NFL contracts are not regulated in full by the laws that govern the rest of the business world. I believe disputes between players go through arbitration which is final and binding in the NFL.

Holdouts are a part of the business and owners know it. The game for owners is I'm going to pay you as little as I can get away with and the players want as much as they can get. Cat and mouse.

buddy33
05-01-2012, 10:09 PM
I really do not see Osi having any leverage. He is only hurting himself with this. If he holds out he gets fined and makes less money. He also hurts his FA value by holding out on his team and it seems as though he has been unhappy since before the ink dried on his current contract.

Don't trade him. Let him sit if he wants. If he plays he better play good because that is the only way he is going to get a pay day he wants.

B&RWarrior
05-01-2012, 10:23 PM
I really do not see Osi having any leverage. He is only hurting himself with this. If he holds out he gets fined and makes less money. He also hurts his FA value by holding out on his team and it seems as though he has been unhappy since before the ink dried on his current contract.

Don't trade him. Let him sit if he wants. If he plays he better play good because that is the only way he is going to get a pay day he wants.

He doesn't have any leverage with the Giants and thats why we low balled him.

I honestly think he signed a bad deal. His agent should have been savvy enough to understand how the market would appreciate for a celebrity position llike DE where sacks equals megacash. I'm sure the money sounded good at first, but the reality is the Giants got him for a bargain.

Don't worry I dont think they have any intention of trading Osi. Jr is focused on winning SBs for the Giants not helping anybody else win rings.

nhpgiantsfan
05-01-2012, 10:36 PM
In the "real" business world an employer can't just decidethat they don't want to honor a contract anymore. If they decide they don't want to keep an employee that is currently under contract they still have to pay the employee the remainder of the contract after his termination. This is how it is in baseball. This makes football different than the real business world. It is hard for us fans to ever see it from the players side because it just seems so abnormal to us. But, simply put, this is just how the NFL works. If he holds out, it's really not breach of contract. This is Amerca after all. They can't force him to show up for work. he just won't be paid and he can't go play football for anyone else.

This will all work it self out eventually.

buddy33
05-01-2012, 10:49 PM
I'm pretty sure it was one of if not the best money up front deals ever signed by a DE that young.

giantyankee1976
05-02-2012, 08:36 AM
I also find it funny that Osi can go in front of the cameras and on the radio and complain as much as he wants, but JR answers a question brought up to him in a presser involving Osi and he flips!

Osi wants out and he sees this as the shortest path.


worked for Shockey

B&RWarrior
05-02-2012, 08:43 AM
I'm pretty sure it was one of if not the best money up front deals ever signed by a DE that young.

<font face="arial">Great deal for the Giants. Lock your good young players up for a long time. In the last years of the contract their pay will certainly not match their performance based on current market value . That's if their level of play doesn't drop off from when they signed the contract.
<b/>
Is Osi a top 5 4-3 DE?
<b />
1. J. Peppers.<b />
2. J. Allen <b />
3. J. Tuck <b />
4. M. Williams <b />
5. D. Freeney ???? This can be argued. <b/>
<b/>
He can make a case for the 5th best given his proficiency for getting FF and his high production with a limited number of snaps. I can't think of any DE with 9 sacks with the number of downs he's played. The other guys are clearly better than him.</font>

buddy33
05-02-2012, 08:49 AM
You can look at his production in two ways though. Yeah it was great for the games he played, but he did miss half the season.

giantyankee1976
05-02-2012, 08:49 AM
I'm pretty sure it was one of if not the best money up front deals ever signed by a DE that young.

Great deal for the Giants. Lock your good young players up for a long time. In the last years of the contract their pay will certainly not match their performance based on current market value . That's if their level of play doesn't drop off from when they signed the contract.

Is Osi a top 5 4-3 DE?

1. J. Peppers.
2. J. Allen
3. J. Tuck
4. M. Williams
5. D. Freeney ???? This can be argued

He can make a case for the 5th best given his proficiency for getting FF and his high production with a limited number of snaps. I can't think of any DE with 9 sacks with the number of downs he's played. The other guys are clearly better than him.

I appreciate your arguments, I can tell you know what you're talking about. My issue is Osi is still under contract. When he returned to the Team last season, to me, his presence was automatically felt.

From the rotation to the strip sacks.

He is a valuable player, but to me, his best bet is to play out of his mind in his final(?) year of contract and let his gameplay dictate his pay. Be it from the Giants or another team.

Currently his tactics are similar to what Jeremy did before the FO said, "enough's enough."

I'd hate to see him leave, I'd love for him to retire a Giant but in the end, it is a business.

buddy33
05-02-2012, 08:52 AM
Another thing that has to be mentioned is that he is the 3rd best DE on he team right now. They have to pay Tuck next year. Or should they let Tuck walk?

B&RWarrior
05-02-2012, 09:09 AM
I'm pretty sure it was one of if not the best money up front deals ever signed by a DE that young.

Great deal for the Giants. Lock your good young players up for a long time. In the last years of the contract their pay will certainly not match their performance based on current market value . That's if their level of play doesn't drop off from when they signed the contract.

Is Osi a top 5 4-3 DE?

1. J. Peppers.
2. J. Allen
3. J. Tuck
4. M. Williams
5. D. Freeney ???? This can be argued

He can make a case for the 5th best given his proficiency for getting FF and his high production with a limited number of snaps. I can't think of any DE with 9 sacks with the number of downs he's played. The other guys are clearly better than him.

I appreciate your arguments, I can tell you know what you're talking about. My issue is Osi is still under contract.* When he returned to the Team last season, to me, his presence was automatically felt.

From the rotation to the strip sacks.

He is a valuable player, but to me, his best bet is to play out of his mind in his final(?) year of contract and let his gameplay dictate his pay.* Be it from the Giants or another team.

Currently his tactics are similar to what Jeremy did before the FO said, "enough's enough."

I'd hate to see him leave, I'd love for him to retire a Giant but in the end, it is a business.


I'm just a guy that loves my Giants probably way too much. I say it's up to Osi. Like you said nothing he does will get him money like a super season next year. Frankly he won't get the snaps to put up the numbers he would like to have going in to free agency.

You can sign a 7 year contract and get cut in your 2nd year. So if Osi decides in year 7 that the money is not worth his efforts I'm not mad at him. At 31 you are your first priority. It's business.

Either way the Giants are going to roll. We have built a war machine. LDE is the least of our worries.

Mod_C
05-02-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm pretty sure it was one of if not the best money up front deals ever signed by a DE that young.

Great deal for the Giants. Lock your good young players up for a long time. In the last years of the contract their pay will certainly not match their performance based on current market value . That's if their level of play doesn't drop off from when they signed the contract.

Is Osi a top 5 4-3 DE?

1. J. Peppers.
2. J. Allen
3. J. Tuck
4. M. Williams
5. D. Freeney ???? This can be argued

He can make a case for the 5th best given his proficiency for getting FF and his high production with a limited number of snaps. I can't think of any DE with 9 sacks with the number of downs he's played. The other guys are clearly better than him.

I appreciate your arguments, I can tell you know what you're talking about. My issue is Osi is still under contract. When he returned to the Team last season, to me, his presence was automatically felt.

From the rotation to the strip sacks.

He is a valuable player, but to me, his best bet is to play out of his mind in his final(?) year of contract and let his gameplay dictate his pay. Be it from the Giants or another team.

Currently his tactics are similar to what Jeremy did before the FO said, "enough's enough."

I'd hate to see him leave, I'd love for him to retire a Giant but in the end, it is a business.


I'm just a guy that loves my Giants probably way too much. I say it's up to Osi. Like you said nothing he does will get him money like a super season next year. Frankly he won't get the snaps to put up the numbers he would like to have going in to free agency.

You can sign a 7 year contract and get cut in your 2nd year. So if Osi decides in year 7 that the money is not worth his efforts I'm not mad at him. At 31 you are your first priority. It's business.

Either way the Giants are going to roll. We have built a war machine. LDE is the least of our worries.

Everyone here loves the Giants. Osi has e very right to get as much money as he can to take care of his family. Yet, emailing news outlets to drone on about this situation is just wrong. That's what has many fans unhinged and I agree with them. These are private matters and should be dealt with that way.

We're better off with Osi, but not at ANY cost, IMO.

Mod_C
05-02-2012, 09:26 AM
In the "real" business world an employer can't just decidethat they don't want to honor a contract anymore. If they decide they don't want to keep an employee that is currently under contract they still have to pay the employee the remainder of the contract after his termination. This is how it is in baseball. This makes football different than the real business world. It is hard for us fans to ever see it from the players side because it just seems so abnormal to us. But, simply put, this is just how the NFL works. If he holds out, it's really not breach of contract. This is Amerca after all. They can't force him to show up for work. he just won't be paid and he can't go play football for anyone else.

This will all work it self out eventually.

Being in breach of contract is a result of an action one side takes. There doesn't have to be a reaction for it to be true. Contracts are written so both sides know what is being agreed to. Players sign and agree to all of the terms in the contract, as do the teams. The contracts are written to allow teams to cut players. Sometimes doing so carries "penalties" in terms of guaranteed money.

The NFL is a business just as much as IBM or General Motors.

B&RWarrior
05-02-2012, 09:57 AM
In the "real" business world an employer can't just decidethat they don't want to honor a contract anymore. If they decide they don't want to keep an employee that is currently under contract they still have to pay the employee the remainder of the contract after his termination. This is how it is in baseball. This makes football different than the real business world. It is hard for us fans to ever see it from the players side because it just seems so abnormal to us. But, simply put, this is just how the NFL works. If he holds out, it's really not breach of contract. This is Amerca after all. They can't force him to show up for work. he just won't be paid and he can't go play football for anyone else.

This will all work it self out eventually.

Being in breach of contract is a result of an action one side takes.* There doesn't have to be a reaction for it to be true.* Contracts are written so both sides know what is being agreed to.* Players sign and agree to all of the terms in the contract, as do the teams.* The contracts are written to allow teams to cut players.* Sometimes doing so carries "penalties" in terms of guaranteed money.

The NFL is a business just as much as IBM or General Motors.


The NFL and any other professional sports league is fundamentally different from corporate america in how they handle contracts between players and ownership. It's incomparable to the normal employee versus management arrangements in most businesses.

At IBM if I am in breach of a contract I am held liable for the full value of the contract in its entirety. Any contract that is written to the contrary is void because it violates standing contract law, Business law 101. Not only the value of the contract but the cost that it would take to find a suitable replacement to do the job that you were contracted to do for the life of the original contract. NFL owners don't have any legal recourse if a player holds out other than to levy out fines. They also get to end contracts when they see fit. Year 1 of 10 year contract they can cut a player and that's the end of the contract with no further liability.

That is not how the real business world works. This is how professional football works..

As per the NFL and NFLPA labor agreement all player versus ownership disputes are settled through arbitration and is binding. Generally speaking most player vs ownership disputes don't go to court another clear difference between IBM and GM.

The NFL is a business but they operate by a different standard than a traditional business with regard to contractual agreements.

nhpgiantsfan
05-02-2012, 01:48 PM
I'm pretty sure it was one of if not the best money up front deals ever signed by a DE that young.

<font face="arial">Great deal for the Giants. Lock your good young players up for a long time. In the last years of the contract their pay will certainly not match their performance based on current market value . That's if their level of play doesn't drop off from when they signed the contract.
<b/>
Is Osi a top 5 4-3 DE?
<b />
1. J. Peppers.<b />
2. J. Allen <b />
3. J. Tuck <b />
4. M. Williams <b />
5. D. Freeney ???? This can be argued. <b/>
<b/>
He can make a case for the 5th best given his proficiency for
getting FF and his high production with a limited number of
snaps. I can't think of any DE with 9 sacks with the number of
downs he's played. The other guys are clearly better than him.
</font>

Tuck does not belong on that list. And I know it was only one year but JPP belong right near the top of that list. He is already better than Tuck ever was. No offense to Tuck.

buddy33
05-02-2012, 01:58 PM
Tuck absolutely belongs on that list and had it not been for Eli having two great Super Bowl games he could have been named MVP twice.

mad4ahmad
05-02-2012, 02:25 PM
If Osi is such a great pass rusher, how come he is never double teamed in passing situations but Tuck is always double teamed?

nhpgiantsfan
05-02-2012, 04:05 PM
Tuck absolutely belongs on that list and had it not been for Eli having two great Super Bowl games he could have been named MVP twice.

I love him but Tuck is not a top 5 DE in the league. He is the second best DE on the team.. Our other DE was a candidate for defensive player of the year.

buddy33
05-02-2012, 04:39 PM
He was injured most of the season.

nhpgiantsfan
05-02-2012, 05:46 PM
He was injured most of the season.

Ok. And when healthy he has never had a season like JPP had this year.

buddy33
05-02-2012, 10:14 PM
Not true at all. Tuck is a complete DE and the year before was excellent. I know JPP is a great player but so is Tick and you can't discount his greatness because he was injured this year. Yeah JPP held down the fort for the team this year while they where hurting, but they don't win the Super Bowl without Tuck getting better by the Jets game.