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View Full Version : Can someone explain to me how David Wilson is a reach??



Snappinnecks
04-30-2012, 08:41 AM
When Trent Richardson is chosen #3 in the first round and the Giants pick Wilson with pick #32? Considering the following:

1. Richardson has a higher grade than Wilson but is it THAT much higher??
2. Most NFL teams have a two back system??

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/04/28/steals.reaches.2012draft/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)



David Wilson/RB/NY Giants/Pick No. 32 -- Wilson is an explosive ballcarrier who picks up big chunks of yardage from the line of scrimmage. He's not a physical ball carrier and has an undeveloped game. The Giants selected him at least a half round earlier than his talents warranted.

buddy33
04-30-2012, 08:44 AM
He is a reach because his name is not Martin, Fleener, or Hill.

titwio
04-30-2012, 08:50 AM
There were a lot of mocks I read previously before the draft mocking David Wilson to the Giants...Even WalterFootball had him going to the Giants a couple of weeks ago.

The only reason people are saying it was a reach was because of some of the names that dropped to 32...like Glenn, Upshaw, Martin, Hill, Fleener etc... Wilson was and is a 1st round talent and not a reach at all imo. So many people just didn't see the Giants taking a RB and it threw them through a loop.

Flip Empty
04-30-2012, 08:54 AM
It's just one person's opinion. You should never take anyone's mock as gospel.

TuckYou
04-30-2012, 08:56 AM
I'm not saying Wilson won't perform well for us, but I feel like there were other players that have a way higher upside that we passed up on. AKA Courtney Upshaw. He will be a star in this league.</P>


Could of got a player like Turbin in the 3rd or Polk LATE. Bradshaw is still our starter. Ware most likely is our backup incase AB gets injured again because Coughlin trusts him right now, unlike Wilson who has a fumbling issue. Until that is resolved, he wont see more then Scott did last year.</P>

TheEnigma
04-30-2012, 08:59 AM
You want to know the answer? Well, anyone on this board who says they know for sure is talking out of their butt.

The only way we would know for a fact if the Giants reached for Wilson would be if all 32 NFL teams released their "big board" for the public to see.

If every other team had Wilson ranked around #40 to #60, that would mean the Giants reached. If he was ranked lower than #32, it would be considered a value pick.

Since teams don't release their big boards for obvious reasons, we are only left to what public knowledge we can gather.

Kruunch
04-30-2012, 09:06 AM
Reach = they picked someone I didn't.

Means nothing.

Sundown
04-30-2012, 09:08 AM
These analyst are ****ing idiots. Reese states they didn't want Martin yet these idiots say "the giants panicked" when Martin was taken. Were these analyst in the war room? If these guys were so good they'd be working for a nfl team.

TuckYou
04-30-2012, 09:11 AM
It was only a reach if Reese didn't have him highest on his board. He said he did. He said he had him slightly in front of Martin, which you can agree or disagree. If this kid truely was Reese's top player left, and he filled our need, it should be a great pick. If he only took him because Martin got snagged and we NEED a RB, then it was a reach.</P>


We probably will never know for sure. </P>

BeatYale
04-30-2012, 01:48 PM
When Trent Richardson is chosen #3 in the first round and the Giants pick Wilson with pick #32? Considering the following:

1. Richardson has a higher grade than Wilson but is it THAT much higher??
2. Most NFL teams have a two back system??

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/04/28/steals.reaches.2012draft/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)



David Wilson/RB/NY Giants/Pick No. 32 -- Wilson is an explosive ballcarrier who picks up big chunks of yardage from the line of scrimmage. He's not a physical ball carrier and has an undeveloped game. The Giants selected him at least a half round earlier than his talents warranted.

You're the editor for a web magazine/blog. Your business model revolves around advertising. Advertising dollars revolve around page views. Page views revolve around content that is buzz worthy.

It's Monday morning and the draft is long over. You can have someone write up another story about how the Giants made a good selection in Wilson, or you can be one of the first to go against the grain, giving readers a different opinion than everyone else. Obviously you'll get traffic from angry fans who will take your words so seriously.

RoanokeFan
04-30-2012, 01:52 PM
Reach = they picked someone I didn't.

Means nothing.

BINGO

jomo
04-30-2012, 02:05 PM
When Trent Richardson is chosen #3 in the first round and the Giants pick Wilson with pick #32? Considering the following:

1. Richardson has a higher grade than Wilson but is it THAT much higher??
2. Most NFL teams have a two back system??

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/04/28/steals.reaches.2012draft/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)



David Wilson/RB/NY Giants/Pick No. 32 -- Wilson is an explosive ballcarrier who picks up big chunks of yardage from the line of scrimmage. He's not a physical ball carrier and has an undeveloped game. The Giants selected him at least a half round earlier than his talents warranted.Who's opinion on talent is more important to you, some media guy who is one rung above Wallmart greeter or Jerry Reese's? Not sure why people care a lick about any of these opinions.

WMBG
04-30-2012, 02:33 PM
When Trent Richardson is chosen #3 in the first round and the Giants pick Wilson with pick #32? Considering the following:

1. Richardson has a higher grade than Wilson but is it THAT much higher??
2. Most NFL teams have a two back system??

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/04/28/steals.reaches.2012draft/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)



David Wilson/RB/NY Giants/Pick No. 32 -- Wilson is an explosive ballcarrier who picks up big chunks of yardage from the line of scrimmage. He's not a physical ball carrier and has an undeveloped game. The Giants selected him at least a half round earlier than his talents warranted.

IMO its not so much picking Wilson is a reach, but rather picking any RB that is not an absolute game-changer in the first round is a reach. Considering:

1) RB is probably the position that has the highest injury risk

2) RB has the shortest average career

3) OLs make RBs 90% of the time unless you have a generational talent like Barry Sanders or AP

4) Drafting OL gives you double duty- protect QB better AND paves way for RB.

5) RB is devalued in today's game- the Colts, Saints, Pack, and Giants of recent superbowl memory did not have dominant runners. Passing is simply the more efficient way of gaining yardage. They simply set up the run with dominant air games.

6) We are moving towards the late 2000s Colts way of playing football (i.e. get a lead early with explosive plays, and then murder opposing QBs with edge rushers when they try to throw) instead of the current 49er formula that requires power running to kill clock. We don't need a strong running game, just one that forces opponents to be honest and not drop everyone into coverage. This can be done with a good O-line and a 4th round RB.

I don't think anyone here will argue that Wilson is not an impressive running back, or that he won't make an impact. Yet, why use our top pick to select a position that not only has a high chance of injury, but also is just systematically less useful in modern football and our team? High risk, moderate reward.

Eli TO Shockey
04-30-2012, 02:44 PM
I'm not saying Wilson won't perform well for us, but I feel like there were other players that have a way higher upside that we passed up on. AKA Courtney Upshaw. He will be a star in this league.</p>


Could of got a player like Turbin in the 3rd or Polk LATE. Bradshaw is still our starter. Ware most likely is our backup incase AB gets injured again because Coughlin trusts him right now, unlike Wilson who has a fumbling issue. Until that is resolved, he wont see more then Scott did last year.</p>

you also complained about JPP....aand every one of our other 1st round picks as well. David Wilson is going to be a top 10 rb in the NFL 2 years from now. The kid is special.

Eli TO Shockey
04-30-2012, 02:46 PM
IMO its not so much picking Wilson is a reach, but rather picking any RB that is not an absolute game-changer in the first round is a reach. Considering:

1) RB is probably the position that has the highest injury risk

2) RB has the shortest average career

3) OLs make RBs 90% of the time unless you have a generational talent like Barry Sanders or AP

4) Drafting OL gives you double duty- protect QB better AND paves way for RB.

5) RB is devalued in today's game- the Colts, Saints, Pack, and Giants of recent superbowl memory did not have dominant runners. Passing is simply the more efficient way of gaining yardage. They simply set up the run with dominant air games.

6) We are moving towards the late 2000s Colts way of playing football (i.e. get a lead early with explosive plays, and then murder opposing QBs with edge rushers when they try to throw) instead of the current 49er formula that requires power running to kill clock. We don't need a strong running game, just one that forces opponents to be honest and not drop everyone into coverage.

I don't think anyone here will argue that Wilson is not an impressive running back, or that he won't make an impact. Yet, why use our top pick to select a position that not only has a high chance of injury, but also is just systematically less useful in modern football and our team? High risk, moderate reward.

imagine our passing attack mixed with a dominant running game. this team will be unstoppable on offense.

WMBG
04-30-2012, 02:51 PM
IMO its not so much picking Wilson is a reach, but rather picking any RB that is not an absolute game-changer in the first round is a reach. Considering:

1) RB is probably the position that has the highest injury risk

2) RB has the shortest average career

3) OLs make RBs 90% of the time unless you have a generational talent like Barry Sanders or AP

4) Drafting OL gives you double duty- protect QB better AND paves way for RB.

5) RB is devalued in today's game- the Colts, Saints, Pack, and Giants of recent superbowl memory did not have dominant runners. Passing is simply the more efficient way of gaining yardage. They simply set up the run with dominant air games.

6) We are moving towards the late 2000s Colts way of playing football (i.e. get a lead early with explosive plays, and then murder opposing QBs with edge rushers when they try to throw) instead of the current 49er formula that requires power running to kill clock. We don't need a strong running game, just one that forces opponents to be honest and not drop everyone into coverage.

I don't think anyone here will argue that Wilson is not an impressive running back, or that he won't make an impact. Yet, why use our top pick to select a position that not only has a high chance of injury, but also is just systematically less useful in modern football and our team? High risk, moderate reward.

imagine our passing attack mixed with a dominant running game. this team will be unstoppable on offense.


That would be frickin' awesome and I hope that Wilson will be able to bring that next year.

Still, we could lower our exposure to risk and still achieve that by beefing up our O-line and getting a lesser RB or RB by committee. We don't *need* a 1st rounder RB to achieve that end, and that's why people think using a 1st on Wilson is a reach .

titwio
04-30-2012, 02:57 PM
imagine our passing attack mixed with a dominant running game. this team will be unstoppable on offense.


Just look what it did for Dallas last year with DeMarco Murray. He had a couple of break out games and the Cowboys went on a tear before he got injured.

It's amazing how undervalued the RB position has become. I have no problems with the Giants taking a top notch RB early. Like you said, with Eli playing as well as he did last year along with a dominant run game...the Giants offense will be explosive.

Eli TO Shockey
04-30-2012, 03:01 PM
IMO its not so much picking Wilson is a reach, but rather picking any RB that is not an absolute game-changer in the first round is a reach. Considering:

1) RB is probably the position that has the highest injury risk

2) RB has the shortest average career

3) OLs make RBs 90% of the time unless you have a generational talent like Barry Sanders or AP

4) Drafting OL gives you double duty- protect QB better AND paves way for RB.

5) RB is devalued in today's game- the Colts, Saints, Pack, and Giants of recent superbowl memory did not have dominant runners. Passing is simply the more efficient way of gaining yardage. They simply set up the run with dominant air games.

6) We are moving towards the late 2000s Colts way of playing football (i.e. get a lead early with explosive plays, and then murder opposing QBs with edge rushers when they try to throw) instead of the current 49er formula that requires power running to kill clock. We don't need a strong running game, just one that forces opponents to be honest and not drop everyone into coverage.

I don't think anyone here will argue that Wilson is not an impressive running back, or that he won't make an impact. Yet, why use our top pick to select a position that not only has a high chance of injury, but also is just systematically less useful in modern football and our team? High risk, moderate reward.

imagine our passing attack mixed with a dominant running game. this team will be unstoppable on offense.


That would be frickin' awesome and I hope that Wilson will be able to bring that next year.

Still, we could lower our exposure to risk and still achieve that by beefing up our O-line and getting a lesser RB or RB by committee. We don't *need* a 1st rounder RB to achieve that end, and that's why people think using a 1st on Wilson is a reach .

based on the contract given to bradshaw and the releasing jacobs, I strongly believe reese and co. feels the same way you do about the RB position. That being said, we must have been very high on wilson and his potential since we spent a 1st round pick on him. Especially since we usually go BPA in the first.

I understand your thinking and it makes sense. But, I trust in our front office...and this kids highlight reels dont lie, hes something special.

I am also concerned about our oline, but I think JR is very high on brewer. Petrus is a beast.

Eli TO Shockey
04-30-2012, 03:05 PM
imagine our passing attack mixed with a dominant running game. this team will be unstoppable on offense.


Just look what it did for Dallas last year with DeMarco Murray. He had a couple of break out games and the Cowboys went on a tear before he got injured.

It's amazing how undervalued the RB position has become. I have no problems with the Giants taking a top notch RB early. Like you said, with Eli playing as well as he did last year along with a dominant run game...the Giants offense will be explosive.

Then you add Bennett, Randle to our passing game. This team is deep all over the field. All the pieces are in place, lets just hope the o-line holds up.

WMBG
04-30-2012, 03:12 PM
IMO its not so much picking Wilson is a reach, but rather picking any RB that is not an absolute game-changer in the first round is a reach. Considering:

1) RB is probably the position that has the highest injury risk

2) RB has the shortest average career

3) OLs make RBs 90% of the time unless you have a generational talent like Barry Sanders or AP

4) Drafting OL gives you double duty- protect QB better AND paves way for RB.

5) RB is devalued in today's game- the Colts, Saints, Pack, and Giants of recent superbowl memory did not have dominant runners. Passing is simply the more efficient way of gaining yardage. They simply set up the run with dominant air games.

6) We are moving towards the late 2000s Colts way of playing football (i.e. get a lead early with explosive plays, and then murder opposing QBs with edge rushers when they try to throw) instead of the current 49er formula that requires power running to kill clock. We don't need a strong running game, just one that forces opponents to be honest and not drop everyone into coverage.

I don't think anyone here will argue that Wilson is not an impressive running back, or that he won't make an impact. Yet, why use our top pick to select a position that not only has a high chance of injury, but also is just systematically less useful in modern football and our team? High risk, moderate reward.

imagine our passing attack mixed with a dominant running game. this team will be unstoppable on offense.


That would be frickin' awesome and I hope that Wilson will be able to bring that next year.

Still, we could lower our exposure to risk and still achieve that by beefing up our O-line and getting a lesser RB or RB by committee. We don't *need* a 1st rounder RB to achieve that end, and that's why people think using a 1st on Wilson is a reach .

based on the contract given to bradshaw and the releasing jacobs, I strongly believe reese and co. feels the same way you do about the RB position. That being said, we must have been very high on wilson and his potential since we spent a 1st round pick on him. Especially since we usually go BPA in the first.*

I understand your thinking and it makes sense. But, I trust in our front office...and this kids highlight reels dont lie, hes something special.

I am also concerned about our oline, but I think JR is very high on brewer. Petrus is a beast.





Haha yeah, I absolutely will defer to football professionals when it comes to scouting.

Another angle that we haven't explored is that the Giants' front office already trusts the O-linemen we have and wants a high-risk luxury pick such as Wilson that will make us even more deadly for a short period of time and give us a chance to repeat while Eli is still in his prime. Honestly, everything the Giants do for the next five years has to be with Eli in mind since who knows when we'll get an elite franchise QB again.

myles2424
04-30-2012, 03:15 PM
I'm not saying Wilson won't perform well for us, but I feel like there were other players that have a way higher upside that we passed up on. AKA Courtney Upshaw. He will be a star in this league.</P>


Could of got a player like Turbin in the 3rd or Polk LATE. Bradshaw is still our starter. Ware most likely is our backup incase AB gets injured again because Coughlin trusts him right now, unlike Wilson who has a fumbling issue. Until that is resolved, he wont see more then Scott did last year.</P> Polk & turbin both have injury problems & are nowhere near the talent Wilson is.....

nygsb42champs
04-30-2012, 04:30 PM
I saw alot of mocks that had us taking him there. I do not think it is a reach at all.

burier
04-30-2012, 04:50 PM
Some people have a problem with taking backs early. I disagree but I think that's a legit reason to be annoyed.

I feel that way about Olineman (Reese apparently agrees with me)

Other than that should we wait and see what the player does and then complain?

NJAquaman
04-30-2012, 05:08 PM
I have no problem with RB David Wilson in the first especially since they got the WR Randle in the 2nd...I am looking forward to seeing him develop.

sharick88
04-30-2012, 05:23 PM
When Trent Richardson is chosen #3 in the first round and the Giants pick Wilson with pick #32? Considering the following:

1. Richardson has a higher grade than Wilson but is it THAT much higher??
2. Most NFL teams have a two back system??

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/04/28/steals.reaches.2012draft/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)



David Wilson/RB/NY Giants/Pick No. 32 -- Wilson is an explosive ballcarrier who picks up big chunks of yardage from the line of scrimmage. He's not a physical ball carrier and has an undeveloped game. The Giants selected him at least a half round earlier than his talents warranted.

Why care what that guy says? IMO, we got him exactly where he was projected. No way he would have been there at our 2nd pick. We had the last pick in the ****ing first round!!!! LOL at the article and the bum that wrote it

TuckYou
04-30-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm not saying Wilson won't perform well for us, but I feel like there were other players that have a way higher upside that we passed up on. AKA Courtney Upshaw. He will be a star in this league.</P>


Could of got a player like Turbin in the 3rd or Polk LATE. Bradshaw is still our starter. Ware most likely is our backup incase AB gets injured again because Coughlin trusts him right now, unlike Wilson who has a fumbling issue. Until that is resolved, he wont see more then Scott did last year.</P>




you also complained about JPP....aand every one of our other 1st round picks as well. David Wilson is going to be a top 10 rb in the NFL 2 years from now. The kid is special.
</P>


Wrong. I admittedly did not like the JPP pick, but I didnt like it in person, never complained about him on here. I loved the Nicks pick. I loved the Phillips pick. I also loved the Ron Dayne pick. </P>


I hope you and jerry are right about the Wilson pick. IMO, in order for that pick to be a success, he needs to be top 10 in the league at least.</P>

chasjay
04-30-2012, 05:42 PM
I'm not saying Wilson won't perform well for us, but I feel like there were other players that have a way higher upside that we passed up on. AKA Courtney Upshaw. He will be a star in this league.</p>


Could of got a player like Turbin in the 3rd or Polk LATE. Bradshaw is still our starter. Ware most likely is our backup incase AB gets injured again because Coughlin trusts him right now, unlike Wilson who has a fumbling issue. Until that is resolved, he wont see more then Scott did last year.</p>




you also complained about JPP....aand every one of our other 1st round picks as well. David Wilson is going to be a top 10 rb in the NFL 2 years from now. The kid is special.
</p>


Wrong. I admittedly did not like the JPP pick, but I didnt like it in person, never complained about him on here. I loved the Nicks pick. I loved the Phillips pick. I also loved the Ron Dayne pick. </p>


I hope you and jerry are right about the Wilson pick. IMO, in order for that pick to be a success, he needs to be top 10 in the league at least.</p>

I just don't follow your reasoning. Why does he need to be top ten in the league for the pick to get your approval? How many of the 32 first round picks will be top ten in the league? Do you mean next year or at some point in their career?

slipknottin
04-30-2012, 05:49 PM
Unless you know every teams draft boards there is no such thing as a reach, or for that matter, great value.

For instance, Wilson could have been rated a mid first round pick on 10 different teams boards.

Yet Rueben Randle could have been rated a 4th round pick on 30 teams boards.

nevada11
04-30-2012, 05:53 PM
I wonder how far randle would fall if the giants pass him

EJ Blue
04-30-2012, 06:24 PM
It's not a reach. he most likely wouldn't have been there in the second round, and then the Giants would have been in a crappy situation with their second round pick.

This kid(lol he's my age) plays angry and I like his tape. RB was technically a need due to Bradshaw's situation and durability. Wilson is a beast and should be a big part of the offense. He is NOT a reach.

TheEnigma
04-30-2012, 06:38 PM
Unless you know every teams draft boards there is no such thing as a reach, or for that matter, great value.

For instance, Wilson could have been rated a mid first round pick on 10 different teams boards.

Yet Rueben Randle could have been rated a 4th round pick on 30 teams boards.Most accurate statement in this thread.

TuckYou
04-30-2012, 06:43 PM
I'm not saying Wilson won't perform well for us, but I feel like there were other players that have a way higher upside that we passed up on. AKA Courtney Upshaw. He will be a star in this league.</p>


Could of got a player like Turbin in the 3rd or Polk LATE. Bradshaw is still our starter. Ware most likely is our backup incase AB gets injured again because Coughlin trusts him right now, unlike Wilson who has a fumbling issue. Until that is resolved, he wont see more then Scott did last year.</p>




you also complained about JPP....aand every one of our other 1st round picks as well. David Wilson is going to be a top 10 rb in the NFL 2 years from now. The kid is special.
</p>


Wrong. I admittedly did not like the JPP pick, but I didnt like it in person, never complained about him on here. I loved the Nicks pick. I loved the Phillips pick. I also loved the Ron Dayne pick. </p>


I hope you and jerry are right about the Wilson pick. IMO, in order for that pick to be a success, he needs to be top 10 in the league at least.</p>

I just don't follow your reasoning. Why does he need to be top ten in the league for the pick to get your approval? How many of the 32 first round picks will be top ten in the league? Do you mean next year or at. some point in their career?


Yeah, career. At some point through his career I would hope him to be a playmaker and a top 10 back.

Breezely
04-30-2012, 07:16 PM
Some says he 's a reach but I believe the Giants' track record on drafting talent is something to be noticed. Yeah, you have your Ron Daynes or Tyrone Wheatleys but overall . . . . . .Rodney Hampton, Dave Meggett, Tiki Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Ryan Grant and above all the late round draft pick, Ahmad Bradshaw.

I have to be honest and state that I didn't like the Tiki Barber pick but this guy was butter. EA and Jerry Reese success rate at drafting has to be one of the highest. (Steelers, Patriots, maybe Ravens)

gradstang
04-30-2012, 07:31 PM
also because rex ryan didnt draft him.

greenca190
04-30-2012, 07:37 PM
He looks small to me.

Bohemian
04-30-2012, 08:27 PM
It is obvious that he would have been a reach. You see, in the draft table all the scouts, coaches, and management were sitting in a big circle talking about drafting this or that player, but when they realized that they wanted to get Wilson, his name was way in the middle of the table. And because everyone was half-drunk and bloated, like Coughlin usually is, they had to reach hard to get his name from the middle of that huge table. I am sure that Gilbride wet his pants while his new running back's name was being called... because you can't, but to loosen yourself in order to reach so hard in such a high pressure situation... that explains why their belts were undone in the press conference.

giantsfan420
04-30-2012, 09:18 PM
when he leaps from the 5 yd line, does a mid air superman over a lb, and sticks the ball out as far as he can over the pylon, he will have reached to score the TD...hopefully many many times...

JJC7301
04-30-2012, 09:51 PM
He's not a reach -- he's talented enough to be picked at # 32. I think some just think very strongly that we should have taken Fleener or an OT, but I'm fine with Wilson because we needed a younger RB to help Bradshaw out.

miked1958
04-30-2012, 09:54 PM
He is a reach because his name is not Martin, Fleener, or Hill.We will see in the long run of these 5 which has the better career stats

miked1958
04-30-2012, 09:54 PM
He is a reach because his name is not Martin, Fleener, or Hill.We will see in the long run of these 5 which has the better career stats I have a feeling it will be Wilson

Evo'Ed
04-30-2012, 10:45 PM
He is a reach because his name is not Martin, Fleener, or Hill.
Really.....

There has been way too much love on this forum for Doug Martin.

Many people had Wilson ranked the 2nd best RB behind Richardson.

In the case of Stephen Hill, how come he lasted 11 picks into the 2nd round? Did all those teams reach for those 11 picks?

How come some of those 11 teams (who you think would need a speedy WR) like the Rams, Jaguars, Bills, and Dolphins not pick Hill?