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saltire
05-01-2012, 08:05 AM
Keith Rivers.

Don't forget we added a 9th overall pick with our 5th Round pick this year. If we are talking about value picks can you really beat that in the 5th Round?

Mercury
05-01-2012, 08:16 AM
If he's half as good as one would expect the #9 overall pick to be, (and I'm not saying he is) he will be well worth a 5th round pick. Hopefully, a change of scenery and a more positive atmosphere will help him to make a fresh start and come closer to meeting expectations.

TuckYou
05-01-2012, 08:20 AM
So, if someone traded for Jamarcus Russell for a 3rd round pick, since he was the 1st overall pick, is that good value?</P>


You can't say that after a player is in the league for a while. When they play in the NFL their value goes up or down. Rivers value went down a bunch. He never played as well as they thought he would. He had a 5th round value. Could he step it up though? Sure. </P>

Drez
05-01-2012, 09:22 AM
So, if someone traded for Jamarcus Russell for a 3rd round pick, since he was the 1st overall pick, is that good value?</p>


You can't say that after a player is in the league for a while. When they play in the NFL their value goes up or down. Rivers value went down a bunch. He never played as well as they thought he would. He had a 5th round value. Could he step it up though? Sure. </p>
To be fair, though, a lot of Rivers' issues have been injury related, not necessarily that he sucked when he was playing.

saltire
05-01-2012, 09:34 AM
Fair point. It is fair to say that you know what you are getting for this 5th Rd pick with Rivers more than you would if you used it to draft a prospect. Now sure you could strike gold, but you could also end up with nothing to show such as our 09 later rounds. It's a slightly safer gamble I think.

GreenZone
05-01-2012, 11:17 AM
The situations are a good parallel. You don't know for sure if either is going to pan out.

In either case, there is the bits to look at to watch a player in action, learn about the character issues, etc.

In either case, the talent could be well above a 5th round value

The 5th rounder making the team has an upside of potential longer career and a salary capped for the next three years.

There's also the idea of the Giant scouting staff looking at their own board in advance of the draft and seeing who might be available when that pick comes around.

And further, Rivers is a higher contract, but only for one year.

Too many factors to say which would turn out better. Scouting and long hours at it is everything here.

Drez
05-01-2012, 12:22 PM
The situations are a good parallel. You don't know for sure if either is going to pan out.

In either case, there is the bits to look at to watch a player in action, learn about the character issues, etc.

In either case, the talent could be well above a 5th round value

The 5th rounder making the team has an upside of potential longer career and a salary capped for the next three years.

There's also the idea of the Giant scouting staff looking at their own board in advance of the draft and seeing who might be available when that pick comes around.

And further, Rivers is a higher contract, but only for one year.

Too many factors to say which would turn out better. Scouting and long hours at it is everything here.

Yeah, Rivers' contract is going to be higher this year than a 5th round rookie, but not by much. His base salary (incld. bonuses) is only $700k, and caps at $1.25m if he hit all the incentives.

But, all in all, Rivers has a much higher chance of stepping in and making an impact than whomever we may have picked in the 5th rd. Well worth the risk if you ask me.

GreenZone
05-01-2012, 12:29 PM
Yeah, Rivers' contract is going to be higher this year than a 5th round rookie, but not by much. His base salary (incld. bonuses) is only $700k, and caps at $1.25m if he hit all the incentives.

But, all in all, Rivers has a much higher chance of stepping in and making an impact than whomever we may have picked in the 5th rd. Well worth the risk if you ask me.


It became a good gamble when an over $2 million contract evaporated and became a lowered one. That seemed like a Houdini move that made it an amazing deal, from a negotiating standpoint. I love the incentive laden contracts. Unfortunately, in a market for a hot commodity, those are usually not welcome.

If Osi would just negotiate on a heavy incentive basis with the Giants, he could end up getting paid what he wishes, but only after proving he had done what he says he is on the field. His ego is not willing to do that and it already probably cost him a couple of million last year.

TuckYou
05-01-2012, 12:29 PM
Rivers really is just a one year rental, like Kawika Mitchell was in 2007. So another thing you have to factor is the time you have the rights to the player. A 5th round pick you would have for 3-4 years. And could turn out to be a very solid player, like Jauquan Williams.

CGYgiant
05-01-2012, 12:33 PM
Rivers really is just a one year rental, like Kawika Mitchell was in 2007. So another thing you have to factor is the time you have the rights to the player. A 5th round pick you would have for 3-4 years. And could turn out to be a very solid player, like Jauquan Williams.

Or a Rhett Bomar. Id take the chance on Rivers any day.

TuckYou
05-01-2012, 12:35 PM
Rivers really is just a one year rental, like Kawika Mitchell was in 2007. So another thing you have to factor is the time you have the rights to the player. A 5th round pick you would have for 3-4 years. And could turn out to be a very solid player, like Jauquan Williams.

Or a Rhett Bomar. Id take the chance on Rivers any day.
</P>


Agreed. I like the pick up actually. We have a few one year rentals on this team this season, Rivers, Bennett and Rodgers.</P>

GreenZone
05-01-2012, 12:37 PM
Rivers really is just a one year rental, like Kawika Mitchell was in 2007.

It's more like a one year audition. And if each side likes the other, it can turn into a bigger contract with the Giants if it pans out.

Drez
05-01-2012, 03:43 PM
Rivers really is just a one year rental, like Kawika Mitchell was in 2007. So another thing you have to factor is the time you have the rights to the player. A 5th round pick you would have for 3-4 years. And could turn out to be a very solid player, like Jauquan Williams.

Or a Rhett Bomar. Id take the chance on Rivers any day.
</p>


Agreed. I like the pick up actually. We have a few one year rentals on this team this season, Rivers, Bennett and Rodgers.</p>

Good thing about those rentals is that if they do prove their worth and we're not able to resign them, we should get some comp picks from them. Reese may have parlayed that 5th round pick into a 4th or better comp. Seems worth the risk to me.

Drez
05-01-2012, 03:44 PM
Rivers really is just a one year rental, like Kawika Mitchell was in 2007.

It's more like a one year audition. And if each side likes the other, it can turn into a bigger contract with the Giants if it pans out.

It really all depends. We are still going to be very tight on cap space and have guys like Nicks and Cruz to resign, too.

Antwuan
05-02-2012, 03:44 AM
Im excited to see what Rivers brings to the Giants this upcoming season.