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View Full Version : WHAT ELEMENTS DO DAVID WILSON AND RUEBEN RANDLE BRING TO THE GIANTS?



RoanokeFan
05-01-2012, 11:02 PM
WHAT ELEMENTS DO DAVID WILSON AND RUEBEN RANDLE BRING TO THE GIANTS? (http://www.giants101.com/2012/05/01/what-elements-do-david-wilson-and-rueben-randle-bring-to-new-york-giants-offense/)

"The <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with New York Giants" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york-giants/" rel="tag nofollow">New York
Giants</a> added two new weapons to their offensive attack in the first two
rounds of the 2012 NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/) Draft in
running back <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with David Wilson" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/david-wilson/" rel="tag nofollow">David
Wilson</a> of Virginia Tech and wide receiver <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Rueben Randle" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/rueben-randle/" rel="tag nofollow">Rueben
Randle</a> of LSU. The two will help offset the losses of <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Mario Manningham" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/mario-manningham/" rel="tag nofollow">Mario
Manningham</a> and <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Brandon Jacobs" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/brandon-jacobs/" rel="tag nofollow">Brandon
Jacobs</a> to free agency, but also represent a change in both the Giants
passing offense and running game.


Today on Giants 101, we look at the elements Eli Manning's newest weapons
bring to the Giants attack.</p>


WR <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Rueben Randle" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/rueben-randle/" rel="tag nofollow">Rueben
Randle</a> vs WR <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Mario Manningham" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/mario-manningham/" rel="tag nofollow">Mario
Manningham</a></p>


While <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Rueben Randle" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/rueben-randle/" rel="tag nofollow">Rueben
Randle</a> and <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Mario Manningham" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/mario-manningham/" rel="tag nofollow">Mario
Manningham</a> do share a common trait in their crafty route running, Randle is
a very different receiver than Manningham and brings a different skill set to
the table for the G-Men. Nicks and Cruz are the clear number one and number two
receiving options for Manning and the New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) passing game, but Randle is likely to step in
and take over Manningham's role as the number three option on the outside (Cruz
will likely remain in the slot on the majority of the snaps, where he is at his
best).</p>


Manningham was a real vertical threat on the outside who was at his best
working the sideline and taking advantage of one on one opportunities over the
top. He's elusive and has very good stop and start moves in the open field to
create extra yardage in space, but wasn't a guy who was going to run through
tacklers or create much after initial contact.</p>


<a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Rueben Randle" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/rueben-randle/" rel="tag nofollow">Rueben
Randle</a> is more in the mold of an Anquan Boldin or Hakeem Nicks(although
Nicks is a more explosive athlete and puts more pressure on defenses vertically
in addition to his physical play over the middle and underneath), and brings a
bigger target to the table for Manning. He's a tall, long athlete who will be a
big threat in the red zone with his size, body control, and ability to snatch
the football (http://www.giants101.com/tag/football/)
out of the air. Whereas the majority of Manningham's touchdowns came on fade
routes to the pylon or on 30 and 40 yard throws, Randle is a guy who can catch
the ball in traffic, win a jump ball, or catch the ball at the six yard line and
drag a defender into the end zone.</p>


RB <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with David Wilson" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/david-wilson/" rel="tag nofollow">David
Wilson</a> vs RB <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Brandon Jacobs" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/brandon-jacobs/" rel="tag nofollow">Brandon
Jacobs</a></p>


Again, these are two players that are very different in the physical traits
and skill set they bring to an offense. <a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with David Wilson" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/david-wilson/" rel="tag nofollow">David
Wilson</a> is an electric runner, who is physical and powerful in his style, but
is also very capable of breaking a 60 to 70 yard run anytime the football (http://www.giants101.com/tag/football/) is
in his hands.</p>


<a class="st_tag internal_tag" title="Posts tagged with Brandon Jacobs" href="http://www.giants101.com/tag/brandon-jacobs/" rel="tag nofollow">Brandon
Jacobs</a> was obviously known for his size and the intimidation factor he
brought to the Giants backfield. He was difficult to bring down with a head of
steam and it often took multiple tacklers to get Jacobs to the ground.</p>


Wilson is a smaller back but compares favorably to DeAngelo Williams and Tiki
Barber. He's tough and competitive and looks to break out of tackles, but also
has that rare acceleration to beat cornerbacks and safeties to the end zone once
he gets to the outside. Wilson also brings a receiving threat out of the
backfield with his soft hands and ability to make big plays in the screen game,
something we didn't see nearly as much with Jacobs in his time as a Giant.</p>


OVERALL IMPACT</p>


In the end, the Giants kind of swapped speed and big play ability from the
passing game to the running game. They have gotten substantially more explosive
in their running back group, while adding more size and physicality to their
receiving core.</p>


The receiving threat and big play ability on screens Wilson brings to the New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/)
backfield should help New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) negate some of the blitzes and heavy pass rush
they will see with their reshuffled offensive line next season, as he is
certainly capable of making defenses pay on the back end with open field space
in front of him.</p>


In the passing game, the Giants have become a little more difficult to
contend with inside of the twenty, as Randle is another big body that operates
well in traffic and can win the football (http://www.giants101.com/tag/football/) in tight spaces(not to mention their addition
of MartellusBennett earlier in the off-season at tight end)."</p>

Neverend
05-01-2012, 11:07 PM
I stopped reading after they said Manningham is a crafty route runner

Drez
05-01-2012, 11:42 PM
I stopped reading after they said Manningham is a crafty route runner
He was. MM was actually a very good route runner. He'd occasionally lose track of the sideline or run the wrong route (but when he did, he ran the route well).

BlueSanta
05-01-2012, 11:51 PM
I stopped reading after they said Manningham is a crafty route runner

Please, MM ran the wrong routes with extreme precision

JJC7301
05-01-2012, 11:58 PM
I'm going to miss BJ and MM, but I'm very excited about DW and RR.

TheEnigma
05-02-2012, 12:04 AM
MM was an inconsistent route runner. At times, he looked like he was owning the show and then there were moments that Eli would just stare at him, thinking, "Wtf are you doing dude?".

NY_Eli
05-02-2012, 12:05 AM
I stopped reading after they said Manningham is a crafty route runner
He was. MM was actually a very good route runner. He'd occasionally lose track of the sideline or run the wrong route (but when he did, he ran the route well).


+1 In terms of pure route running I thought Manningham was fantastic

Neverend
05-02-2012, 12:14 AM
Then I'd like to know how some define "crafty". To me, when they say crafty I'm assuming they mean polish and savvy.

The reason why manningham ran out of bounds so much is because he is clueless learning how to get off the line and create room for himself. If he learns how to slow play his release, jab step inside to get a corner on his heels, or use his arm/hands with a rip/swim technique -- he wouldn't run so close to the sidelines as much. I'd also add here he comes off the line too upright as well, letting corners easily get into his body, manningham gets tied up, and runs his way out of bounds routinely

He has no savvy or understanding of how to get off the line

And I'm only talking about his release so far. I'm not gonna even address his lacking of a route tree and finding his way open other than just on speed and quickness

Depending on the definition of what they meant by Manningham being a "crafty route runner", I find that notion just ridiculous.

giantsfan420
05-02-2012, 01:58 AM
I stopped reading after they said Manningham is a crafty route runner
He was. MM was actually a very good route runner. He'd occasionally lose track of the sideline or run the wrong route (but when he did, he ran the route well).


+1 In terms of pure route running I thought Manningham was fantastic

i dont know about pure route running, but MM was very crafty in that he could use a variety of moves to gain seperation. he could setup db's with different gears in his speed, he could get a db turned inside out or taking bad angles. MM was certainly crafty i think thats a very good term for him...although i believe i remember toomer or another giants analyst, maybe simms, who said MM was the best route runner in terms of gaining seperation...he def. could get seperation no disputing that

edit-for example in the SB on that clutch grab, MM was able to get an excellent release to the outside based off of the db's technique...he would mess up quite often, but when he got it right, it was a thing of beauty

RagTime Blue
05-02-2012, 02:42 AM
Then I'd like to know how some <font size="6">define "crafty"</font>. To me, when they say crafty I'm assuming they mean polish and savvy.

The reason why manningham ran out of bounds so much is because he is clueless learning how to get off the line and create room for himself. If he learns how to slow play his release, jab step inside to get a corner on his heels, or use his arm/hands with a rip/swim technique -- he wouldn't run so close to the sidelines as much. I'd also add here he comes off the line too upright as well, letting corners easily get into his body, manningham gets tied up, and runs his way out of bounds routinely

He has no savvy or understanding of how to get off the line

And I'm only talking about his release so far. I'm not gonna even address his lacking of a route tree and finding his way open other than just on speed and quickness

Depending on the definition of what they meant by Manningham being a "crafty route runner", I find that notion just ridiculous.

He was very good at disguising his routes. . .especially to #10.

Antwuan
05-02-2012, 04:47 AM
If Wilson & Randle pan out its going to be hard for opposing Defenses to stop our Offense.

RichGiants81
05-02-2012, 06:38 AM
Then I'd like to know how some define "crafty". To me, when they say crafty I'm assuming they mean polish and savvy.

The reason why manningham ran out of bounds so much is because he is clueless learning how to get off the line and create room for himself. If he learns how to slow play his release, jab step inside to get a corner on his heels, or use his arm/hands with a rip/swim technique -- he wouldn't run so close to the sidelines as much. I'd also add here he comes off the line too upright as well, letting corners easily get into his body, manningham gets tied up, and runs his way out of bounds routinely

He has no savvy or understanding of how to get off the line

And I'm only talking about his release so far. I'm not gonna even address his lacking of a route tree and finding his way open other than just on speed and quickness

Depending on the definition of what they meant by Manningham being a "crafty route runner", I find that notion just ridiculous.

Take another look at the super bowl DVD. Mario made so many clutch plays.. They wouldn't have won it all without him

TheAussieGiant
05-02-2012, 07:54 AM
I stopped reading after they said Manningham is a crafty route runner

Please, MM ran the wrong routes with extreme precision


If MM doesn't even know what route he is running then how can the defense. Pure Genius!!!

jacobavaro
05-02-2012, 08:40 AM
People seem to forget how stupid Manningham was. He was a total moron with crazy elusiveness and skill but could not keep his head in the game. He would make the difficult catch but drop the easy wide open ones as well as causing some ints for Manning due him quiting on routes or running the wrong ones. In this offence you need intelligent wr not so much athletic. I love this pick

nygsb42champs
05-02-2012, 09:07 AM
Excellent thoughts. Thanks RF.

Neverend
05-02-2012, 02:02 PM
Then I'd like to know how some define "crafty". To me, when they say crafty I'm assuming they mean polish and savvy.

The reason why manningham ran out of bounds so much is because he is clueless learning how to get off the line and create room for himself. If he learns how to slow play his release, jab step inside to get a corner on his heels, or use his arm/hands with a rip/swim technique -- he wouldn't run so close to the sidelines as much. I'd also add here he comes off the line too upright as well, letting corners easily get into his body, manningham gets tied up, and runs his way out of bounds routinely

He has no savvy or understanding of how to get off the line

And I'm only talking about his release so far. I'm not gonna even address his lacking of a route tree and finding his way open other than just on speed and quickness

Depending on the definition of what they meant by Manningham being a "crafty route runner", I find that notion just ridiculous.

Take another look at the super bowl DVD. Mario made so many clutch plays.. They wouldn't have won it all without him

I'm a fan of Manningham. Don't get me wrong, I was pissed when I found out the numbers and terms SF signed him too. Its almost as if the giants didnt care to match or make an effort to bring him back

But in Manningham I see a guy who the majority of the time makes plays with his natural ability, not really on being crafty depending on how you define that term

B&RWarrior
05-02-2012, 02:31 PM
As usual Black Madden aka B&RWarrior has the answer. Not the question asked but the MM question.

MM has always been great at gaining separation and has a great burst off the line.

Remember this is an offense predicated on in-game adjustments. The routes that are run from play to play are a reaction to what coverage the defense is showing. Cruz said in an interview Eli would meet with the WRs on Tuesday and ask them what route they will run in certain situations or when defenses have certain coverages. They run the practices based on what routes the WRs say they will run in every situation.

On Sunday whenever MM is in one place and the ball is no where in his vicinity and Eli is giving him that WTF look it's because he ran a different route than what he told Eli he would run in the Tuesday meeting.

It' really has nothing to do with his ability to run routes. Is it that he just can't remember what he told Eli or that he gets caught up in the game, or that the CB played him in a way that he thought he wouldn't be open if he ran the planned route, nobody knows really except for MM. All we know is he got the WTF look a lot from Eli.

Having said that MM is better than anything we have now including the rookie. I will miss MM and you will too when next season starts. We'll replace him, but not sure we can get that dynamic at #3 again. MM is a play maker. If the 49ers line him up on T2 we better have safety help over the top.

RoanokeFan
05-02-2012, 02:40 PM
Excellent thoughts. Thanks RF.

[Y]

B&RWarrior
05-02-2012, 02:40 PM
Ruben Randle excites me. I like WR that are "pro ready". Nicks was considered the most pro ready in his draft. When Harrison came out of Syracuse he was seen as the most pro ready. His size enables him to handle the bump and run coverage. I look for him to be in the Nicks mold of WRs; a guy that loves to be physical and slap the DB around when they try press coverage. He can be a good red zone target and win jump balls.

Wilson I really like. We have a new guy to give the pregame speech. Despite what some posters say I've seen the ability to run both inside and outside form his YouTube clips. He can be a great weapon. Make no mistake Bradshaw is our best RB- hands down.

giantsfan420
05-02-2012, 03:01 PM
Ruben Randle excites me. I like WR that are "pro ready". Nicks was considered the most pro ready in his draft. When Harrison came out of Syracuse he was seen as the most pro ready. His size enables him to handle the bump and run coverage. I look for him to be in the Nicks mold of WRs; a guy that loves to be physical and slap the DB around when they try press coverage. He can be a good red zone target and win jump balls.

Wilson I really like. We have a new guy to give the pregame speech. Despite what some posters say I've seen the ability to run both inside and outside form his YouTube clips. He can be a great weapon. Make no mistake Bradshaw is our best RB- hands down.

great post.

that excites me so much as well. how top notch football minds like JR and Marc Ross were comparing Randle to Nicks...of course Randle isnt nearly as polished, and prob not as athletic and wont give us all the options Nicks does, but he does have a bunch of similarities in his game to Nicks...so excited about that...somehow we got him at 63 too, its like opposing teams want to make it easy for Reese.

and I too agree about Wilson and how people assume he cant run inside...i see the ability. He is a terrific north-south runner, and thats the biggest part about running inside. i think he'll just need to get the patience to see the hole, then once he sees it, then to use all his god given talents. thats the one thing i'd say would be most important to his early success...being patient and having the vision to see when he turns it upfield with that amazing explosiveness and speed...

giantsfan420
05-02-2012, 03:09 PM
Ruben Randle excites me. I like WR that are "pro ready". Nicks was considered the most pro ready in his draft. When Harrison came out of Syracuse he was seen as the most pro ready. His size enables him to handle the bump and run coverage. I look for him to be in the Nicks mold of WRs; a guy that loves to be physical and slap the DB around when they try press coverage. He can be a good red zone target and win jump balls.

Wilson I really like. We have a new guy to give the pregame speech. Despite what some posters say I've seen the ability to run both inside and outside form his YouTube clips. He can be a great weapon. Make no mistake Bradshaw is our best RB- hands down.

great post.

that excites me so much as well. how top notch football minds like JR and Marc Ross were comparing Randle to Nicks...of course Randle isnt nearly as polished, and prob not as athletic and wont give us all the options Nicks does, but he does have a bunch of similarities in his game to Nicks...so excited about that...somehow we got him at 63 too, its like opposing teams want to make it easy for Reese.

and I too agree about Wilson and how people assume he cant run inside...i see the ability. He is a terrific north-south runner, and thats the biggest part about running inside. i think he'll just need to get the patience to see the hole, then once he sees it, then to use all his god given talents. thats the one thing i'd say would be most important to his early success...being patient and having the vision to see when he turns it upfield with that amazing explosiveness and speed...

and to add about randle. another aspect i love about his game is that he displayed an understanding of double moves. in college, despite not having legitimate qb play, he was able to setup top level SEC defensive backs with double moves, freeze them, and burn them and get a ton of seperation. in our offense, if he can transition that, with a qb like eli, he'll have a ton of success

when lsu played bama, i believe the season before this last one, randle absolutely abused barron on a big scoring play

giantsfan420
05-03-2012, 08:57 PM
craft·y/'krafte/
Adjective:
Clever at achieving one's aims by indirect or deceitful methods.


i find it absolutely ridiculous that people just concoct new meanings and definitions to words.
MM isn't the most polished route runner, he has absolutely been crafty, its been pivotal to the success he's had. using different gears in his speeds to setup defenders, a variety of techniques to get db's off balance and out of position...

he displayed plenty of savvy getting off the line on that clutch SB catch.

could someone please use fact in showing he has a lacking of running different routes or "route tree"?
Using speed and quickness has been part of his craftiness.

And further, I always find it funny how a writer or analyst will make a substantiated claim, and posters will make themselves look like a fool in trying to prove themselves smarter than the person making the statement. The writer said MM is crafty, some one should inform him how completely ridiculous he is...its similar to the nicks randle situation, Ross and Reese make the claims, and a poster tells us all how wrong they are and use bogus, faulty reasoning in "proving" their claim which in essence disproves it...