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View Full Version : Has Eli perfected the art of throwing



Harooni
05-11-2012, 07:00 PM
while shying away from the contact? I'v never quite seen a throwing style off a back foot and turning the body away and have so much success as Eli has had.
I suspect he had to do this as the Oline regressed over the years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/02/06/Sports/Images/Super_Bowl_Football_0a1d9-20386.jpg





http://blog.nj.com/giants_impact/2008/10/medium_manning08.JPG

greenca190
05-11-2012, 07:02 PM
while shying away from the contact?* I'v never quite seen a throwing style off a back foot and turning the body away and have so much success as Eli has had.
I suspect he had to do this as the Oline regressed over the years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/02/06/Sports/Images/Super_Bowl_Football_0a1d9-20386.jpg








Whenever I see that throw (two or three times a game), I think it's going to be picked off.

Harooni
05-11-2012, 07:05 PM
Whenever I see that throw (two or three times a game), I think it's going to be picked off.

yeah I think its going to come up short , but it seems to work a lot of the time. im like "wth kind a throw "to yeah!!! never seen it in another QB that i can remember. its as if he perfected it.

G-Men Surg.
05-11-2012, 07:07 PM
Joe Theismann mentioned this last year in one edition of playbook giving praise to Eli not giving defenders a clean look to hit him saying how difficult it was to be accurate under that circumstance. That been said I always cringe when I see Eli do that, imaging Coughlin in the side line looking at the field during games.

Bohemian
05-11-2012, 07:21 PM
grenades!

Bohemian
05-11-2012, 07:23 PM
grenade!

Bohemian
05-11-2012, 07:23 PM
Don't make me say it again!

giantsfan420
05-11-2012, 07:56 PM
i too saw that clip theisman put together he showed a bucn of elis throws off his back foot bc of the pass rush and eli all of last year put those on a dime.

i think its bc of his elite arm strength. he doesnt get enough credit for his arm. a good ex. rewatch the GB playoff game and the pass to cruz where cruz runs a go, fakes like he's gonna do a double move, and then cuts back towards the sideline, eli threw that pass 20 some yards on a rope.
same thing with the SB clutch pass to MM, thrown 40 some yds on a rope...

some of the best qbs like s.young say that in todays nfl with the level of pass rush, the best qbs have to be able to throw off their back foot, its just something that has to be done. do the qbs want to do it/ of course not, theyd rather step into every pass, but thats a luxury a qb will never get in todays game...eli hs amazing arm strength, and really stepped up his accuracy

giantsfan420
05-11-2012, 07:59 PM
and i think he is contorting his body at the last possible second where before he'd do it too early and it'd mess up the timing, he's doing it just to try and keep himself healthy, and who can blame him?

he is waiting to the absolute last possible second staring down the barrel of a gun (the pass rush) and making the throw, and allowing the motion of the throw carry over into contorting his body, whereas before, he kinda just contorted his body like mid throw motion, it looks like that was something he focused on last offseason

giantsfan420
05-11-2012, 08:02 PM
and even if this does lead to a few ints, i think its an excellent tradeoff;

throw a few more ints while contorting his body to try and stay healthy or not contorting his body and taking even more viscous shots...

i'd rather a few more ints and a healthy eli

G-Men Surg.
05-11-2012, 08:11 PM
i too saw that clip theisman put together he showed a bucn of elis throws off his back foot bc of the pass rush and eli all of last year put those on a dime.

i think its bc of his elite arm strength. he doesnt get enough credit for his arm. a good ex. rewatch the GB playoff game and the pass to cruz where cruz runs a go, fakes like he's gonna do a double move, and then cuts back towards the sideline, eli threw that pass 20 some yards on a rope.
same thing with the SB clutch pass to MM, thrown 40 some yds on a rope...

some of the best qbs like s.young say that in todays nfl with the level of pass rush, the best qbs have to be able to throw off their back foot, its just something that has to be done. do the qbs want to do it/ of course not, theyd rather step into every pass, but thats a luxury a qb will never get in todays game...eli hs amazing arm strength, and really stepped up his accuracy
To tell you the truth I don't have the recollection of someone doing it in the past or with that consistency and accuracy. Aside of Eli's underrated arm strenght it shows how much Eli has mastered this offensive scheme and how in sync he is with his offensive weapons .

gumby742
05-11-2012, 08:36 PM
i'd rather him throw off his back foot, have an extra INT and have longevity, rather then have someone like Ben, standing tall in the pocket, getting his clock cleaned every play.

THE_New_York_Giants
05-11-2012, 08:41 PM
It's comparable to Dirk Nowitzki's fade aways that he hits every game. You think, there is no way he's hitting that shot and then it goes in.

Delicreep
05-11-2012, 08:52 PM
...really?

Did you not watch the San Fran playoff game? When he has to stay in and take the hit to make the throw, he did it and took an tremendous beating in the process. He took hits all year long behind our o-line and when he had to take the hits to make the plays he did it.

When he doesn't have to take the hit, I personally would rather that he didn't.

Why exactly do you not want Eli to avoid unnecessary hits?

By the way unless I am mistaken (and I am pretty sure I am not) the Wilford play you have a pic of was a defensive offside play. I really don't want the guy to take un-necessary hits on free plays. That's just flat out stupid

Roosevelt
05-11-2012, 08:53 PM
while shying away from the contact? I'v never quite seen a throwing style off a back foot and turning the body away and have so much success as Eli has had.
I suspect he had to do this as the Oline regressed over the years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/02/06/Sports/Images/Super_Bowl_Football_0a1d9-20386.jpg





http://blog.nj.com/giants_impact/2008/10/medium_manning08.JPG


Bottom line is he hasn't missed a game to go with those 2 Lombardi's.

appodictic
05-11-2012, 08:57 PM
I think its perfect, Vic missed two games this year or more with his wrist injuries which he essentially attained by throwing a ball and his hand motion carried into someone helmet.

Eli is smart enough to extend his career but not stepping into every throw.

Diamondring
05-11-2012, 09:02 PM
It seems that "The Legend of Eli" is on the rise.

Harooni
05-11-2012, 11:00 PM
I am not suggesting he stops, as he has indeed perfected it. with the oline the way it is, it keeps him healthy, I find it amazing that he pulls it off so often. kudos to him.


I don't think it does lead to extra int's i think the int's come from staring a guy down ,seems like eli at times picks his mark before the snap.

Drez
05-12-2012, 12:06 AM
By the way unless I am mistaken (and I am pretty sure I am not) the Wilford play you have a pic of was a defensive offside play. I really don't want the guy to take un-necessary hits on free plays. That's just flat out stupid

You are mistaken. The Wilfork play he has up there is the pass to MM on the game winning drive in the SB.

giantsfan420
05-12-2012, 12:12 AM
i'd rather him throw off his back foot, have an extra INT and have longevity, rather then have someone like Ben, standing tall in the pocket, getting his clock cleaned every play.

classic miconception. eli is still "standing tall in the pocket." he is bracing himself for the hit after he waits til the last possible moment to throw. its not like eli isnt getting hit, and hit hard. he still is, its just he braces himself for the fall and contact. its actually pretty damn brilliant, and i guarantee if other qbs could pull it off, they'd do it too...

giantsfan420
05-12-2012, 12:16 AM
I am not suggesting he stops, as he has indeed perfected it. with the oline the way it is, it keeps him healthy, I find it amazing that he pulls it off so often. kudos to him.


I don't think it does lead to extra int's i think the int's come from staring a guy down ,seems like eli at times picks his mark before the snap.





ur interpreting it incorrectly. eli does do that, but it isnt bc of some deficiency. its bc eli is a master at reading defenses presnap. he takes the info he sees presnap, and most elite qb's will know "ok heres where the hole will be in this defensive coverage" and it can bite eli in the *** bc DC's now masquerade the coverages and defensive schemes...

that said, eli is still right 9/10 times, and imho, he is "locking on one WR" less and less...an example of it when it works tho is the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG. As soon as eli got the ball, he knew exactly where he was going and how he would need to place the ball. He even said he and peyton discussed that particular defensive set and where the window would be, and eli threw one on a rope through an incredibly small window for a huge TD...

bigh3ad
05-12-2012, 12:18 AM
for a righty... the right foot is the back foot.. his weight is on his front foot(left)... so technically the momentum is throwing his body forward..

i think he just leaned and pivoted left to avoid swinging into the bodies of people in front of him

Drez
05-12-2012, 12:35 AM
I am not suggesting he stops, as he has indeed perfected it. with the oline the way it is, it keeps him healthy, I find it amazing that he pulls it off so often. kudos to him.


I don't think it does lead to extra int's i think the int's come from staring a guy down ,seems like eli at times picks his mark before the snap.





ur interpreting it incorrectly. eli does do that, but it isnt bc of some deficiency. its bc eli is a master at reading defenses presnap. he takes the info he sees presnap, and most elite qb's will know "ok heres where the hole will be in this defensive coverage" and it can bite eli in the *** bc DC's now masquerade the coverages and defensive schemes...

that said, eli is still right 9/10 times, and imho, he is "locking on one WR" less and less...an example of it when it works tho is the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG. As soon as eli got the ball, he knew exactly where he was going and how he would need to place the ball. He even said he and peyton discussed that particular defensive set and where the window would be, and eli threw one on a rope through an incredibly small window for a huge TD...
Actually, Eli looked over to Nicks/Cruz first as that was where the play was designed to go. He saw that they were covered and then tossed it to MM. In that coverage, MM was the absolute worst receiver to throw to. Thankfully, the CB missed his jam and couldn't reroute MM towards the inside and when Eli looked to the right the safety started cheating over to that side which was enough to make him being a step short in getting to MM.

Eli did know exactly where MM was going to be, though, and threw a perfect pass.

giantsfan420
05-12-2012, 12:39 AM
I am not suggesting he stops, as he has indeed perfected it. with the oline the way it is, it keeps him healthy, I find it amazing that he pulls it off so often. kudos to him.


I don't think it does lead to extra int's i think the int's come from staring a guy down ,seems like eli at times picks his mark before the snap.





ur interpreting it incorrectly. eli does do that, but it isnt bc of some deficiency. its bc eli is a master at reading defenses presnap. he takes the info he sees presnap, and most elite qb's will know "ok heres where the hole will be in this defensive coverage" and it can bite eli in the *** bc DC's now masquerade the coverages and defensive schemes...

that said, eli is still right 9/10 times, and imho, he is "locking on one WR" less and less...an example of it when it works tho is the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG. As soon as eli got the ball, he knew exactly where he was going and how he would need to place the ball. He even said he and peyton discussed that particular defensive set and where the window would be, and eli threw one on a rope through an incredibly small window for a huge TD...
Actually, Eli looked over to Nicks/Cruz first as that was where the play was designed to go. He saw that they were covered and then tossed it to MM. In that coverage, MM was the absolute worst receiver to throw to. Thankfully, the CB missed his jam and couldn't reroute MM towards the inside and when Eli looked to the right the safety started cheating over to that side which was enough to make him being a step short in getting to MM.

Eli did know exactly where MM was going to be, though, and threw a perfect pass.


i think ur confusing plays im talking about. Im talking about the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG in the 4th. Eli absolutely was going to MM the entire way, he didnt look of any safety.
After the game Eli talked about how he and Peyton discussed if SF came out in that look they did, where the window would be, and Eli threw it right through it...

I think ur talking about the MM SB play, u described that play perfectly. But in the post u quote me, I was talking about the NFC CG pass to MM...

giantsfan420
05-12-2012, 12:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmmjJv0OHdA

just in case u were talking about the NFC CG TD pass to MM and u got confused, that is the link to the play. Eli was staring down the window to MM as soon as he received the snap...he knew where he was going based on the d formation

Harooni
05-12-2012, 12:43 AM
I think he is talking about the sb play where MM got decked as Eli left him a floater

Drez
05-12-2012, 12:46 AM
I am not suggesting he stops, as he has indeed perfected it. with the oline the way it is, it keeps him healthy, I find it amazing that he pulls it off so often. kudos to him.


I don't think it does lead to extra int's i think the int's come from staring a guy down ,seems like eli at times picks his mark before the snap.





ur interpreting it incorrectly. eli does do that, but it isnt bc of some deficiency. its bc eli is a master at reading defenses presnap. he takes the info he sees presnap, and most elite qb's will know "ok heres where the hole will be in this defensive coverage" and it can bite eli in the *** bc DC's now masquerade the coverages and defensive schemes...

that said, eli is still right 9/10 times, and imho, he is "locking on one WR" less and less...an example of it when it works tho is the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG. As soon as eli got the ball, he knew exactly where he was going and how he would need to place the ball. He even said he and peyton discussed that particular defensive set and where the window would be, and eli threw one on a rope through an incredibly small window for a huge TD...
Actually, Eli looked over to Nicks/Cruz first as that was where the play was designed to go. He saw that they were covered and then tossed it to MM. In that coverage, MM was the absolute worst receiver to throw to. Thankfully, the CB missed his jam and couldn't reroute MM towards the inside and when Eli looked to the right the safety started cheating over to that side which was enough to make him being a step short in getting to MM.

Eli did know exactly where MM was going to be, though, and threw a perfect pass.


i think ur confusing plays im talking about. Im talking about the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG in the 4th. Eli absolutely was going to MM the entire way, he didnt look of any safety.
After the game Eli talked about how he and Peyton discussed if SF came out in that look they did, where the window would be, and Eli threw it right through it...

I think ur talking about the MM SB play, u described that play perfectly. But in the post u quote me, I was talking about the NFC CG pass to MM...
OOOPSS, lol. My bad. I'm very tired and just misread it.

Drez
05-12-2012, 12:48 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmmjJv0OHdA

just in case u were talking about the NFC CG TD pass to MM and u got confused, that is the link to the play. Eli was staring down the window to MM as soon as he received the snap...he knew where he was going based on the d formation
Yeah, like I just said, totally misread the post. But, we should do a link exchange... Here's the Anatomy of a Play for the MM SB play, lol.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-anatomy-of-a-play/09000d5d826c5777/Super-Bowl-Anatomy-Manning-to-Manningham

giantsfan420
05-12-2012, 01:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmmjJv0OHdA

just in case u were talking about the NFC CG TD pass to MM and u got confused, that is the link to the play. Eli was staring down the window to MM as soon as he received the snap...he knew where he was going based on the d formation
Yeah, like I just said, totally misread the post. But, we should do a link exchange... Here's the Anatomy of a Play for the MM SB play, lol.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-anatomy-of-a-play/09000d5d826c5777/Super-Bowl-Anatomy-Manning-to-Manningham


awesome, thank u i was just looking at some clips on youtube. gonna check out that link now...

oh, and harooni, u got to do better now that people know you. the "he got MM decked with that floater..." lmfao.

first, it was anything but a floater, two, that was the only place the ball could have been placed if we wanted a td. that was an absolute perfect throw. but bc it wasnt a perfect spiral in rainy conditions no less, u try and knock it...well not really i doubt u believe what u said, more accurate would be u trying to instigate lol, guess it kinda worked

giantsfan420
05-12-2012, 01:41 AM
heres the anatomy of the play on the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-anatomy-of-a-play/09000d5d82649532/Championship-Game-Anatomy-Manning-s-TD-pass?continuous=true

giantsfan420
05-12-2012, 01:45 AM
heres the anatomy of the play on the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-anatomy-of-a-play/09000d5d82649532/Championship-Game-Anatomy-Manning-s-TD-pass?continuous=true

that throw really was as good as it gets. absolutely perfect. no other word to describe it. tremendous anticipation, velocity, and accuracy.

in the two biggest games of most players careers, eli made the two most perfect throws a qb can make that ended up leading us to victory, i like this anatomy of a play thing hadnt seen it yet...thanks drez

Drez
05-12-2012, 02:09 AM
heres the anatomy of the play on the TD pass to MM in the NFC CG

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-anatomy-of-a-play/09000d5d82649532/Championship-Game-Anatomy-Manning-s-TD-pass?continuous=true

that throw really was as good as it gets. absolutely perfect. no other word to describe it. tremendous anticipation, velocity, and accuracy.

in the two biggest games of most players careers, eli made the two most perfect throws a qb can make that ended up leading us to victory, i like this anatomy of a play thing hadnt seen it yet...thanks drez
Yeah. It's one of my favorite features on nfl.com. They even have Cruz' 99 yarder on there, too. I definitely enjoy the insight on the inner workings of the chosen play.

zimonami
05-12-2012, 10:59 AM
I watched most of his games, and he often threw off of his 'back' foot, while fading backwards from a hit... But, with him, it was more desperation, and throwing it away to avoid the loss
... Joe Willie.

rebelfan1966
05-12-2012, 06:49 PM
Yea, but ..... "sometimes listening to him give a speech before a game was comical"

krygny
05-13-2012, 07:08 AM
for a righty... the right foot is the back foot.. his weight is on his front foot(left)... so technically the momentum is throwing his body forward..

i think he just leaned and pivoted left to avoid swinging into the bodies of people in front of him
Wow. Someone who actually observes what Eli does. As opposed to the universal message board mantra "He's throwing off his back foot again!!" every time Eli makes an awkward or out-of-position pass.

Every NFL QB does it. Some are better at it than others. Some have to do it more than others because their O-line stinks.

miked1958
05-13-2012, 09:14 AM
while shying away from the contact?* I'v never quite seen a throwing style off a back foot and turning the body away and have so much success as Eli has had.
I suspect he had to do this as the Oline regressed over the years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/02/06/Sports/Images/Super_Bowl_Football_0a1d9-20386.jpg





http://blog.nj.com/giants_impact/2008/10/medium_manning08.JPG
Id say yes and really believe we haven't seen the best of him yet

elismom
09-26-2012, 08:58 AM
while shying away from the contact?* I'v never quite seen a throwing style off a back foot and turning the body away and have so much success as Eli has had.
I suspect he had to do this as the Oline regressed over the years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/02/06/Sports/Images/Super_Bowl_Football_0a1d9-20386.jpg

This commment should have been."WoW I am very dumb. I thought the Eli move was the worst move of all time but somehow I was wrong." Its like everyone buying google while you say its the worst move everr. And then buying the stock at 600 a share 6 years later. LOL!








Whenever I see that throw (two or three times a game), I think it's going to be picked off.


Thiis commment should have been."WoW I am very dumb. I thought the Eli move was the worst move of all time but somehow I was wrong." Its like everyone buying google while you say its the worst move everr. And then buying the stock at 600 a share 6 years later. LOL!