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RoanokeFan
05-22-2012, 12:50 PM
<font size="4"><font size="3">BETTER NFL OFFENSE: GIANTS OR SAINTS? (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/05/21/better-nfl-offense-giants-or-saints)</font>

"</font>The Lions and Packers have advanced to the second round of PFW’s “In the
Trenches” bracket to decide the best offense in the NFL. But in today’s matchup,
the Super Bowl-champion Giants face off against the record-setting Saints. Which
team has the better offense?


Here’s what PFW’s editors think of the matchup:</p>


Associate editor Kevin Fishbain:
"Saints. Even though I'd
take the Giants' receivers over the Saints', and the gap between Brees and
Manning isn't as big as it used to be, New Orleans gets the edge thanks to Jimmy
Graham and Darren Sproles. Graham has turned into one of the game's best tight
ends and is lethal in the red zone. Like Graham, Sproles is a matchup nightmare
and provided quite the dynamic to the Saints' offense in 2011. The Giants can't
match what those two bring."</p>


Managing editor Mike Holbrook:
"The Saints earn a slight
edge in my book, though this is a tough call. Drew Brees is a bit more
consistent than Eli Manning, Jimmy Graham is much better than any tight end the
Giants have and New Orleans’ WR depth is better. One concern is how the Saints
handle the absence of ace play-caller Sean Payton this season — that could be a
crippling blow to their attack."</p>


Associate editor Arthur Arkush:
"Not to take anything
away from the Super Bowl champions, who are extremely dangerous in their own
right, but arguably no offense in the NFL hums the way the Saints does when it’s
firing on all cylinders. New Orleans poses a plethora of mismatch nightmares for
its opponents, what with Darren Sproles’ speed and Jimmy Graham’s great size and
athleticism, and it has theperfect triggerman, Drew Brees, to light up a
scoreboard quickly. Eli Manning was tremendous last season, but he doesn’t match
the efficiency or accuracy of Brees, and the Giants’ running game was virtually
nonexistent until the postseason. It says here New Orleans is the far more
dynamic offense."</p>


Associate editor Eli Kaberon:
"This matchup came down to
two positions, and no, quarterback wasn't one of them. Eli Manning and Drew
Brees are equals in my view, but the Giants have nobody like Jimmy Graham at
tight end or Darren Sproles in their backfield. Graham and Sproles are so
difficult to defend because of their speed and versatility, making the Saints'
offense dynamic on so many different levels. New Orleans scored 20 or more
points in all 18 games they played last season, a sign of talent and
consistency."</p>


Editor-in-chief Keith Schleiden:
"Even with Sean Payton
out of the picture in 2012, the Saints will remain one of the NFL’s most
productive offensive teams — much more potent than the defending Super
Bowl-champion Giants. With an embarrassment of riches at his disposal, QB Drew
Brees appears to lead his Saints up and down the field almost effortlessly. Last
season, the Saints scored 30 or more points in 10-of-16 regular-season games —
and then did it again in both of their playoff games. The Giants? They did so
only four times in the regular season, and then once in four postseason
games."</p>


Senior editor Eric Edholm:
"The Giants are a very
effective offense, one that thrived a year ago despite a consistent run game
until the playoffs, and they should be even better off with first-round RB David
Wilson in the fold. But a lot of their points come off good field position and
turnovers because of their defense and special teams. The Saints are explosive
on offense, able to flip the field with a play or two, and they have done so
over the past five seasons without always having the benefit of having a great
defense or good starting field position. Not having Sean Payton — or if Drew
Brees is angered about his contract situation —won’t affect that greatly. The
Giants might be the more complete team, but offensively speaking, the Saints are
the more dangerous attack."</p>


Executive editor Dan Arkush:
"My pick is the Saints.
Jimmy Graham at the tight end position and Darren Sproles all over the place
give the Saints a dimension that the Giants don’t have. I also think the Saints
collectively have a better ground game than the Giants, but we’ll see if the
Wilson kid out of Virginia Tech narrows the gap in the Giants’ favor. Both he
and No. 2 pick WR Rueben Randle figure to provide an immediate impact for the
Giants. But the Saints still look a bit more potent to me."</p>


Senior editor Mike Wilkening:
"I very much respect the
Giants’ offense, but I give the Saints’ attack the edge here. The New Orleans
offense just does not have many weaknesses whatsoever. The line is very good,
the pass-catching corps is strong, the RB depth chart is loaded. And the
quarterback is an MVP-caliber performer."</p>


Associate editor Dan Parr:
"The Saints scored nearly 10
points more per game than the Giants in 2011, a season in which New Orleans set
a league record for yards gained. I like Eli Manning's wide receivers more than
the New Orleans receiving corps, but the Saints get at least a slight edge at
running back and on the offensive line. They also have a huge advantage at tight
end with Jimmy Graham, and quarterback is close to even."</p>

GmenFan1980
05-22-2012, 12:56 PM
100% saints across the boards lol. can't be too upset because I agree with them

MikeIsaGiant
05-22-2012, 01:00 PM
HERE'S THE CUE FOR NEW YORK GIANTS HOMERS


Saints 100%, obvious choice right there.

JJC7301
05-22-2012, 01:06 PM
100% Saints, but the Giants have a darn good offense, too. And I'll go with the Pack's offense over the Giants as well.

Rudyy
05-22-2012, 01:22 PM
Easily the Saints.
Don't care though , we won the Super Bowl with the offense we have.

appodictic
05-22-2012, 01:26 PM
100% Saints, but the Giants have a darn good offense, too. And I'll go with the Pack's offense over the Giants as well.

I really love how we clobbered the packers this year though. The SB was great but the resounding and demoralizing defeat of the packers kept me up for about 2 nights thinking about how awesome it was.

Saints are incredible offence, But their flip a coin style of defence lets them down big time. Also the saints got their SB but it was more then farve and peterson gave them the division with one of the greatest chokes ever.

They saints have our number and can small smash weaker teams, but in a game that mattered I really do feel we would elevate our game and outscore them.

SweetZombieJesus
05-22-2012, 01:39 PM
100% saints across the boards lol. can't be too upset because I agree with them

Same here, but amazed at how many people are putting Eli at the same level as Brees. Who would have thought we'd hear that 9 months ago?

giantsfan420
05-22-2012, 01:47 PM
Saints imo, but i do think we have the better wrs. saints have the better rb//te/and ol imo.

The gap isnt huge tho, giants offense is right behind them...i think coaching philosophy is relevant too. Payton has no issue running up the score and throwing it downfield until the final seconds whereas tc is more conservative and we take the foot off the gas pedal once we r comfortably ahead

Redeyejedi
05-22-2012, 02:12 PM
Giants have a very good offense with big play threats but they arent on the same level as the Saints

BeatYale
05-22-2012, 02:42 PM
We lack the safety valves that the Saints have. A receiving threat out of the backfield and a TE that's matchup nightmare for defenses. Those are the ultimate security blankets for a QB.

I wouldn't say Bradshaw has poor receiving ability though, I think our offensive scheme just doesn't involve enough gimmick plays. Not just screen passes, but other safe high percentage throws to the RB's out of the backfield. The Saints and Eagles run them a lot.

NYSPORTS
05-22-2012, 03:11 PM
Better offense is Saints offense indoors vs Saints outdoors.

Better team are the NYG.

jax5338
05-22-2012, 03:30 PM
saints def have a better offense. good receivers, more dynamic backs, terrific TE and QB, and IMO the best offensive gameplan in the NFL.

gmen still have a darn good offense, but the saints are probably either best or 2nd best offense in the NFL alongside GB.

burier
05-22-2012, 03:45 PM
I mean.

You can say the Saints but lets not act like its a no brainer.

We do have the better Quarterback and the better WRs and our production doesn't dip dramatically just because we're playing outside. Food for thought.

sharick88
05-22-2012, 04:06 PM
The saints win this argument, period. Not by much though.

gumby742
05-22-2012, 05:17 PM
I mean. You can say the Saints but lets not act like its a no brainer. We do have the better Quarterback and the better WRs and our production doesn't dip dramatically just because we're playing outside. Food for thought.</P>


offense = a collective. Not individuals. You can't just compare by position QBs, WRs, etc. If that's the case, then the eagles should also be near the top.</P>

bklyn1028
05-22-2012, 05:42 PM
Saints have a better offense all around, the whole package......but I believe the Giants have the whole better all around package regarding THE WHOLE ORGANIZATION, which is why we have 4 rings to their one.

Saints might have a better offense, but we won the big one, period. I don't care what analysts say who has the bigger or better, WHO WON is all that matters. Rodgers was the the most prolific proficient QB last year, but they lost to us.

I'll take the G-Men over ANYONE anyday of the year.

XxBigWhitxX
05-22-2012, 05:42 PM
Saints for two reasons. 1) Jimmy Graham. 2) Darren Sproles. everywhere else we win or are tied with them.

slipknottin
05-22-2012, 05:55 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

giantsfan420
05-22-2012, 06:00 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

Awesome info. Good post thats a big difference

appletree943
05-22-2012, 06:17 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance. or maybe their that bad because they have to play Brees twice a season lol

slipknottin
05-22-2012, 06:25 PM
or maybe their that bad because they have to play Brees twice a season lol


football outsiders takes that into account. If that were true, then you would expect the panthers and Bucs overall defensive rankings would increase, not decrease. Similar to how the falcons defense improved when opponent is factored in.

ashleymarie
05-22-2012, 06:34 PM
The Saints could and probably would have stopped our run for the SB in the playoffs. The Niners took care of that. We were very lucky.

Ntegrase96
05-22-2012, 08:28 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.

GmenFan1980
05-22-2012, 08:32 PM
The Saints could and probably would have stopped our run for the SB in the playoffs. The Niners took care of that. We were very lucky.

This has nothing to do with the topic.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZuEm1qnu2udMfhHRFtJuSZEdaPF0jd YZuWwYofUUdpHmV56A2

lol

Drez
05-22-2012, 08:49 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.



There's different types of turf, though. Not too sure the speed difference of what they use in MetLife as opposed to in NO. Also, you're forgetting one other thing about playing outdoors... Weather. There's no wind or rain or any other adverse meteorological effects in a dome. Throwing in NY in December is a lot different than throwing in a dome in December.

jjj45
05-22-2012, 08:57 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.Good post.

Take away Sproles and its a lot closer than people think. It's easy to be a great offense when you can chuck it off to Sproles and he takes it 40 yards.

Ntegrase96
05-22-2012, 09:00 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.



There's different types of turf, though. Not too sure the speed difference of what they use in MetLife as opposed to in NO. Also, you're forgetting one other thing about playing outdoors... Weather. There's no wind or rain or any other adverse meteorological effects in a dome. Throwing in NY in December is a lot different than throwing in a dome in December.


Cold weather certainly is a factor, but it's one you adjust to. Brady's numbers don't decline in the winter. Neither do Rodgers. Hell, Matt Flynn threw for 400 yards on New Years in Green Bay.

Eli's numbers didn't decline either, nor were they dramatically better in good conditions.

That's the only point I'm making. Cold weather is overrated.

Ntegrase96
05-22-2012, 09:02 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.Good post.

Take away Sproles and its a lot closer than people think. It's easy to be a great offense when you can chuck it off to Sproles and he takes it 40 yards.


Doesn't that factor into comparing offenses?

But I get your point. I've criticized Brees' record for this as well. The biggest difference this year seems to be Sproles 700 receiving yards vs Reggie Bush 200 or so a year.

I have to give him his props though. He's a damn good QB.

giantsfan420
05-22-2012, 09:08 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthersy

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.*

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.



There's different types of turf, though. Not too sure the speed difference of what they use in MetLife as opposed to in NO. Also, you're forgetting one other thing about playing outdoors... Weather. There's no wind or rain or any other adverse meteorological effects in a dome. Throwing in NY in December is a lot different than throwing in a dome in December.


Cold weather certainly is a factor, but it's one you adjust to. Brady's numbers don't decline in the winter. Neither do Rodgers. Hell, Matt Flynn threw for 400 yards on New Years in Green Bay.

Eli's numbers didn't decline either, nor were they dramatically better in good conditions.

That's the only point I'm making. Cold weather is overrated.


Elis had his best games in domes. He seems to be more accurate. The last sb he had like a 70% compl % for three hundred yards and no picks. I know some of his four td no picks games have been in domes too.

Brees is deadly accurate indoors. I saw a sports science where in perfect conditions he could hit the goal post 15yd out like 80% of the time.
When theres factors like wind, rain, coldness that affects the grip and ball, he loses some of that accuracy...

And brees is the kinda qb who thrives on his accuracy cuz hell try and fit in some stick throws...could explain the big disparity between brees indoors and out

Ntegrase96
05-22-2012, 09:11 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthersy

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.



There's different types of turf, though. Not too sure the speed difference of what they use in MetLife as opposed to in NO. Also, you're forgetting one other thing about playing outdoors... Weather. There's no wind or rain or any other adverse meteorological effects in a dome. Throwing in NY in December is a lot different than throwing in a dome in December.


Cold weather certainly is a factor, but it's one you adjust to. Brady's numbers don't decline in the winter. Neither do Rodgers. Hell, Matt Flynn threw for 400 yards on New Years in Green Bay.

Eli's numbers didn't decline either, nor were they dramatically better in good conditions.

That's the only point I'm making. Cold weather is overrated.


Elis had his best games in domes. He seems to be more accurate. The last sb he had like a 70% compl % for three hundred yards and no picks. I know some of his four td no picks games have been in domes too.

Brees is deadly accurate indoors. I saw a sports science where in perfect conditions he could hit the goal post 15yd out like 80% of the time.
When theres factors like wind, rain, coldness that affects the grip and ball, he loses some of that accuracy...

And brees is the kinda qb who thrives on his accuracy cuz hell try and fit in some stick throws...could explain the big disparity between brees indoors and out

Without even looking it up, Eli had a better game against the Cowboys in Giants stadium than he did on the road in a nice cozy dome.

Edit: If I remember right, he played very well against GB in not so great conditions. The only reason his numbers started to decline toward the end of the season was because he wasn't very good against the Redskins this year, and he had to square off against the Jets.

jjj45
05-22-2012, 09:16 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthers

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.Good post.

Take away Sproles and its a lot closer than people think. It's easy to be a great offense when you can chuck it off to Sproles and he takes it 40 yards.


Doesn't that factor into comparing offenses?

But I get your point.
yeah thats just for people who think theirs is miles ahead of ours, but IMO it isn't. Plus im still bitter that we didnt get him in FA lol. Having him is such a luxury. Sproles makes them go from a offense as potent as ours, to a world-class one instantly.

Look at how our boy Phillip fared after Sproles blew town.

miked1958
05-22-2012, 09:24 PM
100% Saints, but the Giants have a darn good offense, too. And I'll go with the Pack's offense over the Giants as well.I'm all fine with GB and NO having better offenses as long as we are the ones winning the Titles

FIFTY6G-MAN
05-22-2012, 11:10 PM
100% Saints, but the Giants have a darn good offense, too. And I'll go with the Pack's offense over the Giants as well.

I really love how we clobbered the packers this year though. The SB was great but the resounding and demoralizing defeat of the packers kept me up for about 2 nights thinking about how awesome it was.

<FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #0000ff" size=5>Saints are incredible offence, But their flip a coin style of defence lets them down big time</FONT>. Also the saints got their SB but it was more then farve and peterson gave them the division with one of the greatest chokes ever.

They saints have our number and can small smash weaker teams, but in a game that mattered I really do feel we would elevate our game and outscore them.
Easy to have a high scoring offense when the other teams defense is on the field 75% of the game sucking windsince they intercept opposing teams offensive play calling (via airwaves)and relay that to their D coordinator to help shut down each play....... I could do that all day long in any level of play. If you know whats coming its very easy to counter it!

ashleymarie
05-23-2012, 05:55 AM
[:P]

The Saints could and probably would have stopped our run for the SB in the playoffs. The Niners took care of that. We were very lucky. This has nothing to do with the topic. https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZuEm1qnu2udMfhHRFtJuSZEdaPF0jd YZuWwYofUUdpHmV56A2 lol</P>


</P>


[:O]</P>

B&RWarrior
05-23-2012, 02:29 PM
Saints offensive line is much better at run blocking and better at pass blocking.

Saints can ground and pound or air it out. There is no other team that can play 2 styles of football on offense.

Sproles and Graham give them the edge over us at the skill position, but I think it's Payton's system that should get a lot of the credit.

As we saw in the playoffs and in the SB defense wins championships; and we turned up the heat defensively in the playoffs.

giantsfan420
05-23-2012, 10:07 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthersy

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.*

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.



There's different types of turf, though. Not too sure the speed difference of what they use in MetLife as opposed to in NO. Also, you're forgetting one other thing about playing outdoors... Weather. There's no wind or rain or any other adverse meteorological effects in a dome. Throwing in NY in December is a lot different than throwing in a dome in December.


Cold weather certainly is a factor, but it's one you adjust to. Brady's numbers don't decline in the winter. Neither do Rodgers. Hell, Matt Flynn threw for 400 yards on New Years in Green Bay.

Eli's numbers didn't decline either, nor were they dramatically better in good conditions.

That's the only point I'm making. Cold weather is overrated.


Elis had his best games in domes. He seems to be more accurate. The last sb he had like a 70% compl % for three hundred yards and no picks. I know some of his four td no picks games have been in domes too.

Brees is deadly accurate indoors. I saw a sports science where in perfect conditions he could hit the goal post 15yd out like 80% of the time.
When theres factors like wind, rain, coldness that affects the grip and ball, he loses some of that accuracy...

And brees is the kinda qb who thrives on his accuracy cuz hell try and fit in some stick throws...could explain the big disparity between brees indoors and out

Without even looking it up, Eli had a better game against the Cowboys in Giants stadium than he did on the road in a nice cozy dome.

Edit: If I remember right, he played very well against GB in not so great conditions. The only reason his numbers started to decline toward the end of the season was because he wasn't very good against the Redskins this year, and he had to square off against the Jets.


Im speaking froma more historical perspective. Eli has had excellent games in every condition, but i saw a stat where he has been his best statistically either in a dome or 70 degrees or higher (like most qbs really) i remember off my head a game vs atl a few years ago he had a 4td no pick game, vs stl a few years ago. He s had some great games in ur dome...im not saying he doesnt have great games outside or poor games inside, just speaking from a more general career outlook

Harooni
05-23-2012, 10:13 PM
when the saints are marching down the field on us i feel good if we hold them to a fieldgoal. they are that good. and s peyton a great play caller.

Drez
05-23-2012, 10:14 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthersy

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.



There's different types of turf, though. Not too sure the speed difference of what they use in MetLife as opposed to in NO. Also, you're forgetting one other thing about playing outdoors... Weather. There's no wind or rain or any other adverse meteorological effects in a dome. Throwing in NY in December is a lot different than throwing in a dome in December.


Cold weather certainly is a factor, but it's one you adjust to. Brady's numbers don't decline in the winter. Neither do Rodgers. Hell, Matt Flynn threw for 400 yards on New Years in Green Bay.

Eli's numbers didn't decline either, nor were they dramatically better in good conditions.

That's the only point I'm making. Cold weather is overrated.


Elis had his best games in domes. He seems to be more accurate. The last sb he had like a 70% compl % for three hundred yards and no picks. I know some of his four td no picks games have been in domes too.

Brees is deadly accurate indoors. I saw a sports science where in perfect conditions he could hit the goal post 15yd out like 80% of the time.
When theres factors like wind, rain, coldness that affects the grip and ball, he loses some of that accuracy...

And brees is the kinda qb who thrives on his accuracy cuz hell try and fit in some stick throws...could explain the big disparity between brees indoors and out

Without even looking it up, Eli had a better game against the Cowboys in Giants stadium than he did on the road in a nice cozy dome.

Edit: If I remember right, he played very well against GB in not so great conditions. The only reason his numbers started to decline toward the end of the season was because he wasn't very good against the Redskins this year, and he had to square off against the Jets.


Im speaking froma more historical perspective. Eli has had excellent games in every condition, but i saw a stat where he has been his best statistically either in a dome or 70 degrees or higher (like most qbs really) i remember off my head a game vs atl a few years ago he had a 4td no pick game, vs stl a few years ago. He s had some great games in ur dome...im not saying he doesnt have great games outside or poor games inside, just speaking from a more general career outlook

Here's his splits from this year:

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td align="left">BY LOCATION</td><td class="textright"> CMP</td><td class="textright">ATT</td><td class="textright">YDS</td><td class="textright">CMP%</td><td class="textright">AVG</td><td class="textright">LNG</td><td class="textright">TD</td><td class="textright">INT</td><td class="textright">SACK</td><td class="textright">RAT</td><td class="textright bleft">ATT</td><td class="textright">YDS</td><td class="textright">AVG</td><td class="textright">LNG</td><td class="textright">TD</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td>OUTDOORS</td><td class="textright">272</td>
<td class="textright">455</td>
<td class="textright">3,806</td>
<td class="textright">59.8</td>
<td class="textright">8.37</td>
<td class="textright">99</td>
<td class="textright">23</td>
<td class="textright">14</td>
<td class="textright">26</td>
<td class="textright">90.8</td>
<td class="textright bleft">29</td>
<td class="textright">16</td>
<td class="textright">0.6</td>
<td class="textright">12</td>
<td class="textright">1</td>
</tr><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td>INDOORS</td><td class="textright">87</td>
<td class="textright">134</td>
<td class="textright">1,127</td>
<td class="textright">64.9</td>
<td class="textright">8.41</td>
<td class="textright">72</td>
<td class="textright">6</td>
<td class="textright">2</td>
<td class="textright">2</td>
<td class="textright">99.9</td>
<td class="textright bleft">6</td>
<td class="textright">-1</td>
<td class="textright">-0.2</td>
<td class="textright">4</td>
<td class="textright">0</td></tr></tbody></table>

JMFP2
05-23-2012, 10:51 PM
Forget the "skill" positions.....</P>


Giants offensive line &lt; Saints offensive line.</P>


Saints have the better offense, because they can run.</P>


</P>

giantsfan420
05-23-2012, 10:54 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthersy

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.*

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.



There's different types of turf, though. Not too sure the speed difference of what they use in MetLife as opposed to in NO. Also, you're forgetting one other thing about playing outdoors... Weather. There's no wind or rain or any other adverse meteorological effects in a dome. Throwing in NY in December is a lot different than throwing in a dome in December.


Cold weather certainly is a factor, but it's one you adjust to. Brady's numbers don't decline in the winter. Neither do Rodgers. Hell, Matt Flynn threw for 400 yards on New Years in Green Bay.

Eli's numbers didn't decline either, nor were they dramatically better in good conditions.

That's the only point I'm making. Cold weather is overrated.


Elis had his best games in domes. He seems to be more accurate. The last sb he had like a 70% compl % for three hundred yards and no picks. I know some of his four td no picks games have been in domes too.

Brees is deadly accurate indoors. I saw a sports science where in perfect conditions he could hit the goal post 15yd out like 80% of the time.
When theres factors like wind, rain, coldness that affects the grip and ball, he loses some of that accuracy...

And brees is the kinda qb who thrives on his accuracy cuz hell try and fit in some stick throws...could explain the big disparity between brees indoors and out

Without even looking it up, Eli had a better game against the Cowboys in Giants stadium than he did on the road in a nice cozy dome.

Edit: If I remember right, he played very well against GB in not so great conditions. The only reason his numbers started to decline toward the end of the season was because he wasn't very good against the Redskins this year, and he had to square off against the Jets.


Im speaking froma more historical perspective. Eli has had excellent games in every condition, but i saw a stat where he has been his best statistically either in a dome or 70 degrees or higher (like most qbs really) i remember off my head a game vs atl a few years ago he had a 4td no pick game, vs stl a few years ago. He s had some great games in ur dome...im not saying he doesnt have great games outside or poor games inside, just speaking from a more general career outlook

Here's his splits from this year:

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td align="left">BY LOCATION</td><td class="textright"> CMP</td><td class="textright">ATT</td><td class="textright">YDS</td><td class="textright">CMP%</td><td class="textright">AVG</td><td class="textright">LNG</td><td class="textright">TD</td><td class="textright">INT</td><td class="textright">SACK</td><td class="textright">RAT</td><td class="textright bleft">ATT</td><td class="textright">YDS</td><td class="textright">AVG</td><td class="textright">LNG</td><td class="textright">TD</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td>OUTDOORS</td><td class="textright">272</td>
<td class="textright">455</td>
<td class="textright">3,806</td>
<td class="textright">59.8</td>
<td class="textright">8.37</td>
<td class="textright">99</td>
<td class="textright">23</td>
<td class="textright">14</td>
<td class="textright">26</td>
<td class="textright">90.8</td>
<td class="textright bleft">29</td>
<td class="textright">16</td>
<td class="textright">0.6</td>
<td class="textright">12</td>
<td class="textright">1</td>
</tr><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td>INDOORS</td><td class="textright">87</td>
<td class="textright">134</td>
<td class="textright">1,127</td>
<td class="textright">64.9</td>
<td class="textright">8.41</td>
<td class="textright">72</td>
<td class="textright">6</td>
<td class="textright">2</td>
<td class="textright">2</td>
<td class="textright">99.9</td>
<td class="textright bleft">6</td>
<td class="textright">-1</td>
<td class="textright">-0.2</td>
<td class="textright">4</td>
<td class="textright">0</td></tr></tbody></table>


Thanks. If im reading it right, this supports the claim. Eli has a bit higher statistical ouput indoors...but like i alluded to, pretty much every qb will do better in a dome, theirs no conditions that could affect the qb aside from the defense

Drez
05-23-2012, 11:03 PM
Wonder how good the giants offense would be playing in a dome and against the NFC South defenses.

NFC South had the 30th ranked defense - Bucs
and the 28th ranked defense - Panthersy

Atlanta was the best of them ranked 12th, and the giants put up 450 yards and 24 points on them.

Ranked by points that division was even worse.

Bucs -32nd
panthers - 27th
Falcons - 18th

Footballoutsiders data, which adjusts for opponents and the like has the Panthers 32nd, Bucs 31st, and atlanta 6th.

And then the dome stuff.

Brees threw for 3,300 yards and a 37td to 9 int on 430 attempts inside, and 1849 yards and a 9 td to 6 int on 230 attempts outside.

Thats a massive difference. I hate QB rating, but just as a for instance, thats about 20 points different in rating between his indoor and outdoor performance.

I found that it was more of the opposition rather than the outdoors having the biggest effect.

Brees only played in 5 outdoor games last season. 2 of those 5 outdoor games accounted for 5 of the 6 interceptions. Those two games were against the Jags (a borderline top 5 defense), and a divisional foe, the tampa bay bucs-- whom he didn't play all that well against the second time they met in the Superdome.

He has another 2 outdoor games against GB and TEN in which he had 5 tds no ints.

One thing that remained constant throughout ALL of Brees' games was his completion percentage and yards-- actually, his two worst yard totals were indoors. So take those numbers for what they're worth.

And on the flip side, it's not like Eli's performances were much better in games within domes than they were outdoors.

All things considered, the outdoors argument seems irrelevant, in my opinion. Especially since most outdoor stadiums are transitioning to turf anyway.



There's different types of turf, though. Not too sure the speed difference of what they use in MetLife as opposed to in NO. Also, you're forgetting one other thing about playing outdoors... Weather. There's no wind or rain or any other adverse meteorological effects in a dome. Throwing in NY in December is a lot different than throwing in a dome in December.


Cold weather certainly is a factor, but it's one you adjust to. Brady's numbers don't decline in the winter. Neither do Rodgers. Hell, Matt Flynn threw for 400 yards on New Years in Green Bay.

Eli's numbers didn't decline either, nor were they dramatically better in good conditions.

That's the only point I'm making. Cold weather is overrated.


Elis had his best games in domes. He seems to be more accurate. The last sb he had like a 70% compl % for three hundred yards and no picks. I know some of his four td no picks games have been in domes too.

Brees is deadly accurate indoors. I saw a sports science where in perfect conditions he could hit the goal post 15yd out like 80% of the time.
When theres factors like wind, rain, coldness that affects the grip and ball, he loses some of that accuracy...

And brees is the kinda qb who thrives on his accuracy cuz hell try and fit in some stick throws...could explain the big disparity between brees indoors and out

Without even looking it up, Eli had a better game against the Cowboys in Giants stadium than he did on the road in a nice cozy dome.

Edit: If I remember right, he played very well against GB in not so great conditions. The only reason his numbers started to decline toward the end of the season was because he wasn't very good against the Redskins this year, and he had to square off against the Jets.


Im speaking froma more historical perspective. Eli has had excellent games in every condition, but i saw a stat where he has been his best statistically either in a dome or 70 degrees or higher (like most qbs really) i remember off my head a game vs atl a few years ago he had a 4td no pick game, vs stl a few years ago. He s had some great games in ur dome...im not saying he doesnt have great games outside or poor games inside, just speaking from a more general career outlook

Here's his splits from this year:

<table class="tablehead" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead" align="right"><td align="left">BY LOCATION</td><td class="textright"> CMP</td><td class="textright">ATT</td><td class="textright">YDS</td><td class="textright">CMP%</td><td class="textright">AVG</td><td class="textright">LNG</td><td class="textright">TD</td><td class="textright">INT</td><td class="textright">SACK</td><td class="textright">RAT</td><td class="textright bleft">ATT</td><td class="textright">YDS</td><td class="textright">AVG</td><td class="textright">LNG</td><td class="textright">TD</td></tr><tr class="oddrow" align="right"><td>OUTDOORS</td><td class="textright">272</td>
<td class="textright">455</td>
<td class="textright">3,806</td>
<td class="textright">59.8</td>
<td class="textright">8.37</td>
<td class="textright">99</td>
<td class="textright">23</td>
<td class="textright">14</td>
<td class="textright">26</td>
<td class="textright">90.8</td>
<td class="textright bleft">29</td>
<td class="textright">16</td>
<td class="textright">0.6</td>
<td class="textright">12</td>
<td class="textright">1</td>
</tr><tr class="evenrow" align="right"><td>INDOORS</td><td class="textright">87</td>
<td class="textright">134</td>
<td class="textright">1,127</td>
<td class="textright">64.9</td>
<td class="textright">8.41</td>
<td class="textright">72</td>
<td class="textright">6</td>
<td class="textright">2</td>
<td class="textright">2</td>
<td class="textright">99.9</td>
<td class="textright bleft">6</td>
<td class="textright">-1</td>
<td class="textright">-0.2</td>
<td class="textright">4</td>
<td class="textright">0</td></tr></tbody></table>


Thanks. If im reading it right, this supports the claim. Eli has a bit higher statistical ouput indoors...but like i alluded to, pretty much every qb will do better in a dome, theirs no conditions that could affect the qb aside from the defense

Just sucks I can't pull up career splits, only those for a single season at a time. I sure as hell don't feel like computing that tonight, lol.

BlueBlooded1979
05-24-2012, 01:18 AM
The Giants have a better deep strike offense and their variation in different climates isn't as great.

We also didn't get to feast on defensive garbage the ATL, CAR and TB. Throw in JAC, IND, STL and MIN for 2011 and their stats look far less impressive.

Keep in mind that Sean Payton is notorious for running up the score to feed his and Brees' enormous egos. I mean he put 62 pts on IND. TC has too much class to do that, he would have pulled Eli in the third quarter.

They are very good but they make all of their hay between the numbers. Take away the middle of the field like SF did and they are very mortal. I would take NYG, GB and HOU before NO if try to win vs put up stats.

lawl
05-24-2012, 01:42 AM
The Giants have a better deep strike offense and their variation in different climates isn't as great.

We also didn't get to feast on defensive garbage the ATL, CAR and TB. Throw in JAC, IND, STL and MIN for 2011 and their stats look far less impressive.

Keep in mind that Sean Payton is notorious for running up the score to feed his and Brees' enormous egos. I mean he put 62 pts on IND. TC has too much class to do that, he would have pulled Eli in the third quarter.

They are very good but they make all of their hay between the numbers. Take away the middle of the field like SF did and they are very mortal. I would take NYG, GB and HOU before NO if try to win vs put up stats.

Throttling it down and celebrating on the sidelines before youve even won a game is how you end up losing to the eagles on a walk off punt return.

Its the other teams job to stop our offense, not our own coaches

rebelfan1966
05-29-2012, 01:08 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/drew-brees-overestimating-his-worth-in-battle-with-new-orleans-saints-052412

Anyone read this article... it suggest Brees is not worth what he is asking.... and is a product of a system more so than a great QB.