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NYgiants141
05-26-2012, 10:56 AM
Two years ago you guys couldn't stop complaining about Eli Manning. How he was too soft, how he made dumb decisions, how he threw too many interceptions, how he was terrible etc.


Look at you guys now. All over him.

Was just thinking now how things have changed greatly. Must be the best crow you've had, right?

SweetZombieJesus
05-26-2012, 11:23 AM
He was great in the 2007 playoff run too and people forgot about that after two years.

Flip Empty
05-26-2012, 12:08 PM
Eli's been consistently good for the last few years, it was only last season when his receivers caught up.

Toadofsteel
05-26-2012, 01:06 PM
Two years ago you guys couldn't stop complaining about Eli Manning. How he was too soft, how he made dumb decisions, how he threw too many interceptions, how he was terrible etc.


Look at you guys now. All over him.

Was just thinking now how things have changed greatly. Must be the best crow you've had, right?


I'll take the crow now, definitely...

I was complaining about him even into the 2011 season. In 2010 I called him the Interception Machine. I was starting to warm up to his 4th quarter heroics throughout the season, but wasn't completely sold. What finally turned me around was his performance in the title game. Name any of the "greats" playing as an NFL QB today. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and his brother... none of them would have won that game in the same position that Eli was in. Seeing Eli get back up repeatedly after many nasty sacks was what finally showed me that Eli really did have the "it" factor that no other QB in the league has...

gmen46
05-26-2012, 03:16 PM
Two years ago you guys couldn't stop complaining about Eli Manning. How he was too soft, how he made dumb decisions, how he threw too many interceptions, how he was terrible etc.


Look at you guys now. All over him.

Was just thinking now how things have changed greatly. Must be the best crow you've had, right?


I'll take the crow now, definitely...

I was complaining about him even into the 2011 season. In 2010 I called him the Interception Machine. I was starting to warm up to his 4th quarter heroics throughout the season, but wasn't completely sold. What finally turned me around was his performance in the title game. Name any of the "greats" playing as an NFL QB today. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and his brother... none of them would have won that game in the same position that Eli was in. Seeing Eli get back up repeatedly after many nasty sacks was what finally showed me that Eli really did have the "it" factor that no other QB in the league has...

I get the feeling that was the game that convinced most of the remaining skeptical pundits, as well. Over the the last 3-4 months that's the one game referred to most as Eli's "breakout" game as a truly elite QB. That, along with his second SB MVP victory, of course.

Myself, I have viewed Eli as progressing as a top QB each year since SB XLII, and viewed his 25 interceptions in 2010 as a temporary aberration, not the "certain" backsliding that so many were eager to paint Eli with.

And it's interesting that with no off season in 2011, and without his so-called security blankets Smith and Boss--replaced by untested virtual "rookies" Cruz and Ballard-- Eli has the best year of his career statistically, and posts a second MVP SB performance, isn't it?

Eli TO Shockey
05-26-2012, 06:30 PM
its not as fun on here anymore. lol.

Toadofsteel
05-26-2012, 06:33 PM
Two years ago you guys couldn't stop complaining about Eli Manning. How he was too soft, how he made dumb decisions, how he threw too many interceptions, how he was terrible etc.


Look at you guys now. All over him.

Was just thinking now how things have changed greatly. Must be the best crow you've had, right?


I'll take the crow now, definitely...

I was complaining about him even into the 2011 season. In 2010 I called him the Interception Machine. I was starting to warm up to his 4th quarter heroics throughout the season, but wasn't completely sold. What finally turned me around was his performance in the title game. Name any of the "greats" playing as an NFL QB today. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and his brother... none of them would have won that game in the same position that Eli was in. Seeing Eli get back up repeatedly after many nasty sacks was what finally showed me that Eli really did have the "it" factor that no other QB in the league has...

I get the feeling that was the game that convinced most of the remaining skeptical pundits, as well. Over the the last 3-4 months that's the one game referred to most as Eli's "breakout" game as a truly elite QB. That, along with his second SB MVP victory, of course.

Myself, I have viewed Eli as progressing as a top QB each year since SB XLII, and viewed his 25 interceptions in 2010 as a temporary aberration, not the "certain" backsliding that so many were eager to paint Eli with.

And it's interesting that with no off season in 2011, and without his so-called security blankets Smith and Boss--replaced by untested virtual "rookies" Cruz and Ballard-- Eli has the best year of his career statistically, and posts a second MVP SB performance, isn't it?

Just bear in mind that I'm not one of those pundits. I was HOPING for Eli to deliver something magical, and boy did he ever...

I for one hope this influences the trend of the passing game. It used to be about flash and finesse, maybe with some True Grit(tm) infused into NFL QB's, there won't be this push to turn the NFL into the National Flag League...

Neverend
05-26-2012, 06:58 PM
Eli wasn't the most popular guys around here

I remember when I merely suggested I'd take Eli over Big Ben because of Eli's elite ability to read defenses and his presnap recognition....

and I was destroyed and ridiculed for even entertaining the idea eli could be better than big ben in any way or form. This was after his 2010 season. The 360 about eli's perception is amazing

Die-Hard
05-26-2012, 08:56 PM
Lets face it: The criticism toward him was 100% warranted at times, as Eli was(and still is) somewhat inconsistent and sloppy. It doesn't take away anything that he's accomplished, but some folks simply do not see him as the greatest QB who ever lived, and theres nothing wrong with that. Just accept the fact that not everyone will be totally enamored of the guy. He certainly proved me wrong last season, and I suspect that I'm far from being the only one, but it doesn't mean I won't rationally criticize him going forward, because it's highly likely that I will.

He's an outstanding QB, and I'm very happy we have him, but I reserve the right to call him out when neccessary. Its part of the deal as a fan.

NYgiants141
05-26-2012, 09:12 PM
Lets face it: The criticism toward him was 100% warranted at times, as Eli was(and still is) somewhat inconsistent and sloppy. It doesn't take away anything that he's accomplished, but some folks simply do not see him as the greatest QB who ever lived, and theres nothing wrong with that. Just accept the fact that not everyone will be totally enamored of the guy. He certainly proved me wrong last season, and I suspect that I'm far from being the only one, but it doesn't mean I won't rationally criticize him going forward, because it's highly likely that I will.

He's an outstanding QB, and I'm very happy we have him, but I reserve the right to call him out when neccessary. Its part of the deal as a fan.


I completely agree. Of course we have the right to get on his back when he under-preforms.

But from what i remember, the score could be 42-35 and the loss would STILL somehow be his fault.

Toadofsteel
05-26-2012, 11:57 PM
Lets face it: The criticism toward him was 100% warranted at times, as Eli was(and still is) somewhat inconsistent and sloppy. It doesn't take away anything that he's accomplished, but some folks simply do not see him as the greatest QB who ever lived, and theres nothing wrong with that. Just accept the fact that not everyone will be totally enamored of the guy. He certainly proved me wrong last season, and I suspect that I'm far from being the only one, but it doesn't mean I won't rationally criticize him going forward, because it's highly likely that I will.

He's an outstanding QB, and I'm very happy we have him, but I reserve the right to call him out when neccessary. Its part of the deal as a fan.


I completely agree. Of course we have the right to get on his back when he under-preforms.

But from what i remember, the score could be 42-35 and the loss would STILL somehow be his fault.


I for one don't blame him for losses like that. I didn't blame him for that loss to the saints last season. That one was all on the lousy preparation in the secondary and LBers (notice how Chase Blackburn got picked up not long after), and of course going up against Brees, which essentially made it a shootout.

I DO blame Eli when he starts throwing multiple picks in a game. He's better than that, and his postseason heroics reflect that. Picks led to that 2010 Philly disaster (that's what really started it
anyway), and more than likely kept us out of the playoffs.I gave him credit as 2011 season was underway as he was much more in control of the picks than in 2010. He realized his weaknesses and worked to improve upon them, which is what you would ask of any professional at his craft

Drez
05-27-2012, 12:09 AM
Lets face it: The criticism toward him was 100% warranted at times, as Eli was(and still is) somewhat inconsistent and sloppy. It doesn't take away anything that he's accomplished, but some folks simply do not see him as the greatest QB who ever lived, and theres nothing wrong with that. Just accept the fact that not everyone will be totally enamored of the guy. He certainly proved me wrong last season, and I suspect that I'm far from being the only one, but it doesn't mean I won't rationally criticize him going forward, because it's highly likely that I will.

He's an outstanding QB, and I'm very happy we have him, but I reserve the right to call him out when neccessary. Its part of the deal as a fan.


I completely agree. Of course we have the right to get on his back when he under-preforms.

But from what i remember, the score could be 42-35 and the loss would STILL somehow be his fault.


I for one don't blame him for losses like that. I didn't blame him for that loss to the saints last season. That one was all on the lousy preparation in the secondary and LBers (notice how Chase Blackburn got picked up not long after), and of course going up against Brees, which essentially made it a shootout.

I DO blame Eli when he starts throwing multiple picks in a game. He's better than that, and his postseason heroics reflect that. Picks led to that 2010 Philly disaster (that's what really started it
anyway), and more than likely kept us out of the playoffs.I gave him credit as 2011 season was underway as he was much more in control of the picks than in 2010. He realized his weaknesses and worked to improve upon them, which is what you would ask of any professional at his craft


Eli threw one interception in that game. In the first quarter. I don't think that's when the collapse started.

It started when I defense decided that it no longer had to try to finish the game.

Toadofsteel
05-27-2012, 01:29 AM
Eli threw one interception in that game. In the first quarter. I don't think that's when the collapse started.

It started when I defense decided that it no longer had to try to finish the game.


Sorry it was the Packers game the following week I was thinking of. It's kind of all a blur to me now...

DragonSoul
05-27-2012, 01:57 AM
Two years ago you guys couldn't stop complaining about Eli Manning. How he was too soft, how he made dumb decisions, how he threw too many interceptions, how he was terrible etc.


Look at you guys now. All over him.

Was just thinking now how things have changed greatly. Must be the best crow you've had, right?
not sure what you mean by YOU GUYS! Maybe you should rephrase that a bit.

NYgiants141
05-27-2012, 02:22 AM
Two years ago you guys couldn't stop complaining about Eli Manning. How he was too soft, how he made dumb decisions, how he threw too many interceptions, how he was terrible etc.


Look at you guys now. All over him.

Was just thinking now how things have changed greatly. Must be the best crow you've had, right?
not sure what you mean by YOU GUYS! Maybe you should rephrase that a bit.

I don't remember quite specifically the people who would constantly criticize Eli. But it was those people, and they know who they are.

Desepx
05-27-2012, 02:39 AM
what bothered me most about him was the trademark shoulder/head shrug he ALWAYS use to do.

he has seem to stopped doing it as of late, obviously found his swagger and I love it.

NYG4lifeNYK
05-27-2012, 03:41 AM
I've always supported Eli & Coughlin and have never once wavered on that stance.

Flip Empty
05-27-2012, 04:40 AM
what bothered me most about him was the trademark shoulder/head shrug he ALWAYS use to do.

he has seem to stopped doing it as of late, obviously found his swagger and I love it.

You mean the head bobbing thing? He still does it

Drez
05-27-2012, 07:39 AM
Eli threw one interception in that game. In the first quarter. I don't think that's when the collapse started.

It started when I defense decided that it no longer had to try to finish the game.


Sorry it was the Packers game the following week I was thinking of. It's kind of all a blur to me now...
The fumbles by AB and BJ in that game and the fact that the defense didn't show up were much more to fault than the interceptions in that game. Most of the picks came in the 4th when the game was already out of reach. Sure, they didn't help matters any, but they were the result of a guy trying to make things happen when the team was down big.

GCGiant
05-27-2012, 07:51 AM
The responses from the guilty are the most entertaining. It seems that crow just doesn't go down well for some. Very funny.

Toadofsteel
05-27-2012, 08:15 AM
Eli threw one interception in that game. In the first quarter. I don't think that's when the collapse started.

It started when I defense decided that it no longer had to try to finish the game.


Sorry it was the Packers game the following week I was thinking of. It's kind of all a blur to me now...
The fumbles by AB and BJ in that game and the fact that the defense didn't show up were much more to fault than the interceptions in that game. Most of the picks came in the 4th when the game was already out of reach. Sure, they didn't help matters any, but they were the result of a guy trying to make things happen when the team was down big.


You're missing the point though. I enjoy it when Eli when he does well (pretty much every year from 2007 on except 2010 honestly). I'm not expecting perfection, I just expect everyone to play their personal best. 2010 was definitely NOT Eli's personal best. I'm honestly willing to take the crow with regards to the fact that he fixed his mistakes for 2011. That's what being a true elite QB is all about. I also give him credit for maintaining a positive TD-INT differential in 2010 even with the high interception count (a detail that often gets lost), but I just can't ignore 25 interceptions. Are you saying that Eli had absolutely nothing to do with why we were out of the playoffs in 2010? Because that's basically reductio ad Giseleum: blame everyone but your favorite QB for the loss...

Sure I complained, but not once did I say I wanted him gone. The only man I wanted gone was Perry Fewell (he had a glut of pass rushers that he was using as glorified CB's), but he finally found the nerve to actually rush the passer later on in this season, so like Eli, he fixed his mistakes...

miked1958
05-27-2012, 08:59 AM
what bothered me most about him was the trademark shoulder/head shrug he ALWAYS use to do.

he has seem to stopped doing it as of late, obviously found his swagger and I love it.
Yes he goes out there with a confidence now that he shows play in and play out. He doesnt get rattled or lose focus. He just gets the job done. Period

miked1958
05-27-2012, 09:03 AM
Funny how he is still rated behind Bree's and Rodgers in most circles yet has more comeback victories, more Road Playoff wins, and more SB wins then both of them.

Also compared to Benn who although he has two SB rings had a horrible game in his first SB and Pitt won despite him not because of him. He also lost a SB

Flip Empty
05-27-2012, 09:14 AM
Funny how he is still rated behind Bree's and Rodgers in most circles yet has more comeback victories, more Road Playoff wins, and more SB wins then both of them.

Also compared to Benn who although he has two SB rings had a horrible game in his first SB and Pitt won despite him not because of him. He also lost a SB
Have you not seen the numbers those guys put up? They destroy teams so there's no need to come from behind.

Drez
05-27-2012, 04:08 PM
Eli threw one interception in that game. In the first quarter. I don't think that's when the collapse started.

It started when I defense decided that it no longer had to try to finish the game.


Sorry it was the Packers game the following week I was thinking of. It's kind of all a blur to me now...
The fumbles by AB and BJ in that game and the fact that the defense didn't show up were much more to fault than the interceptions in that game. Most of the picks came in the 4th when the game was already out of reach. Sure, they didn't help matters any, but they were the result of a guy trying to make things happen when the team was down big.


You're missing the point though. I enjoy it when Eli when he does well (pretty much every year from 2007 on except 2010 honestly). I'm not expecting perfection, I just expect everyone to play their personal best. 2010 was definitely NOT Eli's personal best. I'm honestly willing to take the crow with regards to the fact that he fixed his mistakes for 2011. That's what being a true elite QB is all about. I also give him credit for maintaining a positive TD-INT differential in 2010 even with the high interception count (a detail that often gets lost), but I just can't ignore 25 interceptions. Are you saying that Eli had absolutely nothing to do with why we were out of the playoffs in 2010? Because that's basically reductio ad Giseleum: blame everyone but your favorite QB for the loss...

Sure I complained, but not once did I say I wanted him gone. The only man I wanted gone was Perry Fewell (he had a glut of pass rushers that he was using as glorified CB's), but he finally found the nerve to actually rush the passer later on in this season, so like Eli, he fixed his mistakes...

Yes, Eli played a role in why we missed the playoffs, but he was far from the only reason or even the main reason why. Even with the picks we were playing well enough to make the playoffs. We also needn't rehash the tipped passes interceptions argument, either. Even with some of Eli's questionable decisions to force things when they just weren't there, he was also just plain unlucky in 2010, too.

If the defense could have just made one stop in the Philly game or even bothered to show up in GB we would have been in.

Also, I was only pointing out that you were picking poor examples of multiple pick games by Eli to highlight your points.

Diamondring
05-27-2012, 06:12 PM
In 2010 Seasons when Eli had 25 ints, is some what like who came first the chicken or the egg.

Who was mostly responsible for Eli's 25 ints, the wrs or Eli, that is the question.

Toadofsteel
05-27-2012, 06:28 PM
In 2010 Seasons when Eli had 25 ints, is some what like who came first the chicken or the egg.

Who was mostly responsible for Eli's 25 ints, the wrs or Eli, that is the question.

Regardless of who was responsible, both worked to fix the problem, which I give credit to both for. But to say the problem never existed is just pure homerism...

NYgiants141
05-27-2012, 08:56 PM
In 2010 Seasons when Eli had 25 ints, is some what like who came first the chicken or the egg.

Who was mostly responsible for Eli's 25 ints, the wrs or Eli, that is the question.

Regardless of who was responsible, both worked to fix the problem, which I give credit to both for. But to say the problem never existed is just pure homerism...

According to a youtube video of all 25 Eli interceptions that year, and also according to my count:

9 passes that SHOULD HAVE BEEN caught by the receiver, but was tipped and intercepted.
2 passes that were thrown in what appears to be a miscommunication between Eli and the receiver.
1 pass that was intercepted, but the Green Bay corner did not get both feet in bounds after the INT.

That's 12 interceptions that should not be interceptions. 9 of these are CLEARLY not Eli's fault. 2 MAY have been on the receiver, but it also may have been on Eli. Judging from Eli's reaction though it seems to be on the receiver.
The pass that was intercepted but out of bounds statistically should not have counted but was still poorly thrown by Eli.

Doing the math, ELI should have had 16 interceptions at most. With the out of bounds INT, Eli should have only had 15. If you want to blame the miscommunications on Eli then it's 13.

So Eli should have had 13-16 interceptions on the year, or 13-16 that were his fault, rather than the 25 he had.


Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc

Drez
05-27-2012, 10:08 PM
In 2010 Seasons when Eli had 25 ints, is some what like who came first the chicken or the egg.

Who was mostly responsible for Eli's 25 ints, the wrs or Eli, that is the question.

Regardless of who was responsible, both worked to fix the problem, which I give credit to both for. But to say the problem never existed is just pure homerism...

According to a youtube video of all 25 Eli interceptions that year, and also according to my count:

9 passes that SHOULD HAVE BEEN caught by the receiver, but was tipped and intercepted.
2 passes that were thrown in what appears to be a miscommunication between Eli and the receiver.
1 pass that was intercepted, but the Green Bay corner did not get both feet in bounds after the INT.

That's 12 interceptions that should not be interceptions. 9 of these are CLEARLY not Eli's fault. 2 MAY have been on the receiver, but it also may have been on Eli. Judging from Eli's reaction though it seems to be on the receiver.
The pass that was intercepted but out of bounds statistically should not have counted but was still poorly thrown by Eli.

Doing the math, ELI should have had 16 interceptions at most. With the out of bounds INT, Eli should have only had 15. If you want to blame the miscommunications on Eli then it's 13.

So Eli should have had 13-16 interceptions on the year, or 13-16 that were his fault, rather than the 25 he had.


Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc




http://i4.ytimg.com/vi/7nzGhz8ySuk/hqdefault.jpg

Tell em, Steve Dave.

giantsfan420
05-27-2012, 10:29 PM
In 2010 Seasons when Eli had 25 ints, is some what like who came first the chicken or the egg.

Who was mostly responsible for Eli's 25 ints, the wrs or Eli, that is the question.

Regardless of who was responsible, both worked to fix the problem, which I give credit to both for. But to say the problem never existed is just pure homerism...

According to a youtube video of all 25 Eli interceptions that year, and also according to my count:

9 passes that SHOULD HAVE BEEN caught by the receiver, but was tipped and intercepted.
2 passes that were thrown in what appears to be a miscommunication between Eli and the receiver.
1 pass that was intercepted, but the Green Bay corner did not get both feet in bounds after the INT.

That's 12 interceptions that should not be interceptions. 9 of these are CLEARLY not Eli's fault. 2 MAY have been on the receiver, but it also may have been on Eli. Judging from Eli's reaction though it seems to be on the receiver.
The pass that was intercepted but out of bounds statistically should not have counted but was still poorly thrown by Eli.

Doing the math, ELI should have had 16 interceptions at most. With the out of bounds INT, Eli should have only had 15. If you want to blame the miscommunications on Eli then it's 13.

So Eli should have had 13-16 interceptions on the year, or 13-16 that were his fault, rather than the 25 he had.


Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tUsUoMIHZc





I remember at dallas that season the first two passes went inbetween smith and nicks hands, like it was just awful how badly those two plays ended up considering the passes were right through the windows into their chest area and the ball deflects off the inside of both hands trying to catch them into easy ints...

It was horrendous luck so much that season, but we got some back last season like that seahawks cruz td play

bearbryant
05-27-2012, 11:29 PM
I never liked the " deal" for Eli. Thought it was rotten when it came to what we gave, and what we got, simple. It was one of those EA debacle trades as far as I was concerned, but we got the weak end of the stick. </P>


Until this season, even with the 07 S.B run I still felt that way.We paid way to much for what we got. Butthis year showed what happens when a QB finally totally matures. And he'll only get betteras time goes on: his decisions, his throws, his techniques, his football savvy... all of it will get better till he reaches the peak of his carreer.</P>


I have become a true believer regarding our SB MVP Eli Manning. I no longer have a problem with the " trade" except I hope we get another trade like thatone real soon. </P>


</P>

alau53
05-28-2012, 12:22 AM
ernie still gave up too much.. a first rd pick the following year & 2 3rd rders..the 1st pick was almost demarcus ware if giants didnt win last game of '05 season..also once sandiego drafted eli they had to move him because eli was deadset on not playing for them..that deal could have been made without the 1st rd pick..sandiego really wanted rivers and gmen would have drafted big ben with 4th pick

EliTE
05-28-2012, 12:28 AM
i remember after the 06 season when the media and everyone wanted coughlin and eli gone. i personally supported them both and knew eli would continue to get better. even back then eli always showed the ability to make the throws, the flashes of brilliance were there but he was limited lots of times to 3rd and long throws because we were such a run first team with tiki.

if you think about it the 2 years the giants run game was poor eli had his best regular seasons statistically, 09 and 11.

my point being i have no crow to eat since i was riding with him from the beginning. there were times when you would be like "wtf was that eli?" but the more i learned about the giants offense i realized why a lot of interceptions take place and how frequently its the receivers fault as much as the quarterback.

most casual fans still dont understand the giants dont run a west coast offense where you know where your guys are gonna be. the giants receivers routes are based upon how the defense plays, if a receiver makes a mistake or the qb reads the defense wrong it can lead to turnovers.

i always wondered how eli's production or overall giants team success would have been under a different system other than couglin/gilbride's streak n read. one of the many things eli doesnt get enough credit for is elevating the play of the young receivers on the team. since burress/toomer left eli made steve smith a pro bowler, then had all young guys like manningham, nicks, cruz etc have great production.

i remember when the giants signed hagan off the street because all our receivers were hurt, and eli made him look solid too.

i honestly think the main reason people were so harsh on eli other than his demeanor, was simply the misunderstanding on his turnovers thinking it was always him making a bad play. when in reality the giants offensive scheme is prone to turnovers because of all the option reads on route adjustments.

EliTE
05-28-2012, 12:28 AM
i remember after the 06 season when the media and everyone wanted coughlin and eli gone. i personally supported them both and knew eli would continue to get better. even back then eli always showed the ability to make the throws, the flashes of brilliance were there but he was limited lots of times to 3rd and long throws because we were such a run first team with tiki.

if you think about it the 2 years the giants run game was poor eli had his best regular seasons statistically, 09 and 11.

my point being i have no crow to eat since i was riding with him from the beginning. there were times when you would be like "wtf was that eli?" but the more i learned about the giants offense i realized why a lot of interceptions take place and how frequently its the receivers fault as much as the quarterback.

most casual fans still dont understand the giants dont run a west coast offense where you know where your guys are gonna be. the giants receivers routes are based upon how the defense plays, if a receiver makes a mistake or the qb reads the defense wrong it can lead to turnovers.

i always wondered how eli's production or overall giants team success would have been under a different system other than couglin/gilbride's streak n read. one of the many things eli doesnt get enough credit for is elevating the play of the young receivers on the team. since burress/toomer left eli made steve smith a pro bowler, then had all young guys like manningham, nicks, cruz etc have great production.

i remember when the giants signed hagan off the street because all our receivers were hurt, and eli made him look solid too.

i honestly think the main reason people were so harsh on eli other than his demeanor, was simply the misunderstanding on his turnovers thinking it was always him making a bad play. when in reality the giants offensive scheme is prone to turnovers because of all the option reads on route adjustments.

Drez
05-28-2012, 12:33 AM
ernie still gave up too much.. a first rd pick the following year &amp; 2 3rd rders..the 1st pick was almost demarcus ware if giants didnt win last game of '05 season..also once sandiego drafted eli they had to move him because eli was deadset on not playing for them..that deal could have been made without the 1st rd pick..sandiego really wanted rivers and gmen would have drafted big ben with 4th pick
Two SB's tell you that you're wrong.

EliTE
05-28-2012, 12:35 AM
ernie still gave up too much.. a first rd pick the following year & 2 3rd rders..the 1st pick was almost demarcus ware if giants didnt win last game of '05 season..also once sandiego drafted eli they had to move him because eli was deadset on not playing for them..that deal could have been made without the 1st rd pick..sandiego really wanted rivers and gmen would have drafted big ben with 4th pickredskins just moved up to the 2nd pick and gave up 3 1st rounders lol. ernie felt eli had the certain qualities, the intangibles that separated him enough from big ben and rivers to justify the trade.... and boy was he right.

rivers or ben would have melted in the ny media, could you image the big ben r.a.p.e. case in the ny media? or rivers constant whining and acting like an immature teenager?

if eli ended up being not considerably better than those 2 i would agree he gave up too much in the trade, but that is obviously not the case.

giantsfan420
05-28-2012, 12:44 AM
i remember after the 06 season when the media and everyone wanted coughlin and eli gone. i personally supported them both and knew eli would continue to get better. even back then eli always showed the ability to make the throws, the flashes of brilliance were there but he was limited lots of times to 3rd and long throws because we were such a run first team with tiki.

if you think about it the 2 years the giants run game was poor eli had his best regular seasons statistically, 09 and 11.

my point being i have no crow to eat since i was riding with him from the beginning. there were times when you would be like "wtf was that eli?" but the more i learned about the giants offense i realized why a lot of interceptions take place and how frequently its the receivers fault as much as the quarterback.

most casual fans still dont understand the giants dont run a west coast offense where you know where your guys are gonna be. the giants receivers routes are based upon how the defense plays, if a receiver makes a mistake or the qb reads the defense wrong it can lead to turnovers.

i always wondered how eli's production or overall giants team success would have been under a different system other than couglin/gilbride's streak n read. one of the many things eli doesnt get enough credit for is elevating the play of the young receivers on the team. since burress/toomer left eli made steve smith a pro bowler, then had all young guys like manningham, nicks, cruz etc have great production.

i remember when the giants signed hagan off the street because all our receivers were hurt, and eli made him look solid too.

i honestly think the main reason people were so harsh on eli other than his demeanor, was simply the misunderstanding on his turnovers thinking it was always him making a bad play. when in reality the giants offensive scheme is prone to turnovers because of all the option reads on route adjustments.

Great post. And kgs offense has been historically unsuccessful. Pre this giants two sb run team, kgs offenses usually always had great stats, but never the big game sb.

I remember seeing something about this and reading about it too. Before the warren moon led oilers. The offense kg runs the run n gun or streak and read, was hardly even used anymore. It was this offense tho that imo led to tes becoming more and more of a pass threat...

But back to my point, eli was able to win two sb mvps qbing a system that had never gotten it done before and with some great qbs....

I was a homer the moment we traded for him and even before bc it was rumored ea was going after him. I dunno how his first yr as a starter didnt silence all the critics for good. 11-5 and playoffs. We lost to carolina but that was hardly all on eli...the team was just beginning to grow.

Then any int or bad game, so,many people wanted to blow it up. For so long the ppl who were against the trade felt like the way proven right (horribly incorrect tho they were dead wrong) and the play was under such a microscope that ppl started to complain about how he looked after throwing an int lmfao...

Ppl wanted to compare him to payton as a finished product and not the peyton that took 8 yrs til he was peaking...

Its hard to remember tho, that crow was served 07 as far as im concerned. The people ragging on eli and omitting how many freak ints off wr hands were the same guys who disliked the trade in the first place and for all those yrs...how does crow need to be served to so many fans of their teams qb, nyc market media and fans are some of the toughest but also most loyal...eli and tc r made men no matter what, eventually those pre sb yrs will be wittled away into a faint memory

THE_New_York_Giants
05-28-2012, 01:48 AM
I always bELIeved. I'm ever so slightly a homer though.

GCGiant
05-28-2012, 06:19 AM
ernie still gave up too much.. a first rd pick the following year & 2 3rd rders..the 1st pick was almost demarcus ware if giants didnt win last game of '05 season..also once sandiego drafted eli they had to move him because eli was deadset on not playing for them..that deal could have been made without the 1st rd pick..sandiego really wanted rivers and gmen would have drafted big ben with 4th pick

I think S Diego really wanted to trade and see just how much they could get. It was the Giants who really wanted Eli and San Diego knew it.

There is no way that you can paint it to make EA or the trade look bad. 2 SB's in 8 seasons is more than enough to dispell that notion.

Harooni
05-28-2012, 07:51 AM
Two years ago you guys couldn't stop complaining about Eli Manning. How he was too soft, how he made dumb decisions, how he threw too many interceptions, how he was terrible etc.


Look at you guys now. All over him.

Was just thinking now how things have changed greatly. Must be the best crow you've had, right?

or must be he improved over the years.

AllTuckedUp
05-28-2012, 08:49 AM
Eli wasn't the most popular guys around here

I remember when I merely suggested I'd take Eli over Big Ben because of Eli's elite ability to read defenses and his presnap recognition....

and I was destroyed and ridiculed for even entertaining the idea eli could be better than big ben in any way or form. This was after his 2010 season. The 360 about eli's perception is amazing

The 180*