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RoanokeFan
05-27-2012, 11:10 AM
NY GIANTS' OTA'S RETROSPECTIVE: DID WE LEARN ANYTHING? (http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/5/27/3046443/new-york-giants-otas-hakeem-nicks-david-diehl-kevin-boothe-david-wilson-joe-martinek?tw_p=twt)

"Here are three things we learned last week during the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants)
OTAs.<div class="entry-body">

<span>Injuries will happen regardless of how soft
Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the
torn ACL of <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon">Brian
Witherspoon</a> and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks),
both suffered in non-competitive drills.</span> <span>David Diehl (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2214/david-diehl) will
play right tackle and Kevin Boothe (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/3290/kevin-boothe)
will begin as the starting left guard. Maybe Mitch Petrus (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/108493/mitch-petrus)
can take that spot away from Boothe, but installing Boothe in that spot is
typical of the Giants. Tom Coughlin is nothing if not loyal to players who are
successful for him.</span> <span>Running back might be the most interesting
position to watch unfold throughout the preseason. <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/16768/ahmad-bradshaw">Ahmad
Bradshaw</a> and first-round pick David Wilson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/152687/david-wilson)
are locks. Fullback <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/130890/henry-hynoski">Henry
Hynoski</a> should also be a lock -- and might have a bigger role in the
offense. But, the competition between DJ Ware, Da'Rel Scott (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/131043/da-rel-scott),
Andre Brown (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71293/andre-brown) and
Joe Martinek (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/155783/joe-martinek)
will be fun to watch as it unfolds."</span></div>

IamGiantsfan
05-27-2012, 04:00 PM
Injuries will happen regardless of how soft
Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the
torn ACL of <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon">Brian
Witherspoon</a> and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks),
both suffered in non-competitive drills.</span>

I think the writer doesn't really understand Roger Goodell's goal. Sure eliminating injuries is partially responsible for 'soft practices' but I feel that he is trying to prevent things like concussions, that can have a lasting effect on someone, and could cause major problems post-career, for example all the players who committed suicide due to depression (RIP), which besides the obvious moral reasons one would try to eliminate those things, there is the legal problems, that the nfl does not want to face, in the future. I hardly think the NFL is too worried about torn acl's in practice as much as the potentially post-career damaging injuries that some of the players face.

gmen46
05-27-2012, 04:25 PM
Injuries will happen regardless of how soft
Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the
torn ACL of <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon">Brian
Witherspoon</a> and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks),
both suffered in non-competitive drills.</span>

I think the writer doesn't really understand Roger Goodell's goal. Sure eliminating injuries is partially responsible for 'soft practices' but I feel that he is trying to prevent things like concussions, that can have a lasting effect on someone, and could cause major problems post-career, for example all the players who committed suicide due to depression (RIP), which besides the obvious moral reasons one would try to eliminate those things, there is the legal problems, that the nfl does not want to face, in the future. I hardly think the NFL is too worried about torn acl's in practice as much as the potentially post-career damaging injuries that some of the players face.

Interesting point, but how many NFL concussions have occurred during pre season, historically? I'm not sure your point about "Goodell's goal" for pre season practice is any more valid than Valentine's.

Drez
05-27-2012, 04:43 PM
Injuries will happen regardless of how soft
Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the
torn ACL of <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon">Brian
Witherspoon</a> and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks),
both suffered in non-competitive drills.

I think the writer doesn't really understand Roger Goodell's goal. Sure eliminating injuries is partially responsible for 'soft practices' but I feel that he is trying to prevent things like concussions, that can have a lasting effect on someone, and could cause major problems post-career, for example all the players who committed suicide due to depression (RIP), which besides the obvious moral reasons one would try to eliminate those things, there is the legal problems, that the nfl does not want to face, in the future. I hardly think the NFL is too worried about torn acl's in practice as much as the potentially post-career damaging injuries that some of the players face.

Interesting point, but how many NFL concussions have occurred during pre season, historically? I'm not sure your point about "Goodell's goal" for pre season practice is any more valid than Valentine's.
Statistically, across all levels of play, more concussions happen in practice than in game.

Diamondring
05-27-2012, 06:30 PM
It seems like Commissioner Roger Goodell is the Anti NFL because his actions look like it wants to mess up the NFL. Soon or later no sacks from behind or just get rid of them completely.

miked1958
05-27-2012, 06:42 PM
NY GIANTS' OTA'S RETROSPECTIVE:* DID WE LEARN ANYTHING? (http://www.bigblueview.com/2012/5/27/3046443/new-york-giants-otas-hakeem-nicks-david-diehl-kevin-boothe-david-wilson-joe-martinek?tw_p=twt)

"Here are three things we learned last week during the New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-giants)
OTAs.<div class="entry-body">

<span>Injuries will happen regardless of how soft
Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the
torn ACL of <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon">Brian
Witherspoon</a> and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks),
both suffered in non-competitive drills.</span> <span>David Diehl (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2214/david-diehl) will
play right tackle and Kevin Boothe (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/3290/kevin-boothe)
will begin as the starting left guard. Maybe Mitch Petrus (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/108493/mitch-petrus)
can take that spot away from Boothe, but installing Boothe in that spot is
typical of the Giants. Tom Coughlin is nothing if not loyal to players who are
successful for him.</span> <span>Running back might be the most interesting
position to watch unfold throughout the preseason. <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/16768/ahmad-bradshaw">Ahmad
Bradshaw</a> and first-round pick David Wilson (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/152687/david-wilson)
are locks. Fullback <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/130890/henry-hynoski">Henry
Hynoski</a> should also be a lock -- and might have a bigger role in the
offense. But, the competition between DJ Ware, Da'Rel Scott (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/131043/da-rel-scott),
Andre Brown (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71293/andre-brown) and
Joe Martinek (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/155783/joe-martinek)
will be fun to watch as it unfolds."</span></div>Also id say RR is a lock with the Nicks injury. I think he was a shoe in prior to the injury anyway

Rat_bastich
05-28-2012, 06:58 AM
Injuries will happen regardless of how soft
Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the
torn ACL of <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon">Brian
Witherspoon</a> and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks),
both suffered in non-competitive drills.</span>

I think the writer doesn't really understand Roger Goodell's goal. Sure eliminating injuries is partially responsible for 'soft practices' but I feel that he is trying to prevent things like concussions, that can have a lasting effect on someone, and could cause major problems post-career, for example all the players who committed suicide due to depression (RIP), which besides the obvious moral reasons one would try to eliminate those things, there is the legal problems, that the nfl does not want to face, in the future. I hardly think the NFL is too worried about torn acl's in practice as much as the potentially post-career damaging injuries that some of the players face.

Man, I was just about to rant on the same thing. It is amazing how many former and current players dislike this guy as well as other sports people. He cannot catch a break. His goal most assuredly in the end comes to money, however sometimes that is a good motivator to do good things.

There is a current large crop of former NFL players that are suing the NFL for concussions and brain injuries they received well before Goodell was even thought about as a Commissioner. Many happened when the beloved Tagliabue was the Commissioner. Goodell has constantly changed equipment, changed rules or even called the enforcement of rules that had always been there in the name of mitigating(he knows they will not be totally prevented)specific injuries.

It is dopes like James Harrison that will be suing the NFL when his time comes, yet Goodell has been on his *** trying to change his ways. From what I've seen Goodell came into his office on fire. One of his first acts was dealing wih Pacman Jones but also remember him pulling Brady Quinn to a room so he wouldn't continue to be a spectacle when he was thought to be drafted in the top 10.

The guy cannot catch a break.

GMENAGAIN
05-28-2012, 07:25 AM
Injuries will happen regardless of how soft Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the torn ACL of Brian Witherspoon (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon) and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks), both suffered in non-competitive drills. I think the writer doesn't really understand Roger Goodell's goal. Sure eliminating injuries is partially responsible for 'soft practices' but I feel that he is trying to prevent things like concussions, that can have a lasting effect on someone, and could cause major problems post-career, for example all the players who committed suicide due to depression (RIP), which besides the obvious moral reasons one would try to eliminate those things, there is the legal problems, that the nfl does not want to face, in the future. I hardly think the NFL is too worried about torn acl's in practice as much as the potentially post-career damaging injuries that some of the players face. Interesting point, but how many NFL concussions have occurred during pre season, historically? I'm not sure your point about "Goodell's goal" for pre season practice is any more valid than Valentine's.
Statistically, across all levels of play, more concussions happen in practice than in game.
</P>


Link?</P>


Cn't imagine that is true now in the NFL given how much they have limited the amount of live hitting in practices . . . . </P>

JesseJames
05-28-2012, 10:23 AM
working to eliminate concussions in a sport where 300+ pound men run around at top speed hitting each other is an admirable goal, good luck with that..

RoanokeFan
05-28-2012, 11:07 AM
working to eliminate concussions in a sport where 300+ pound men run around at top speed hitting each other is an admirable goal, good luck with that..

The difficulty of the task doesn't make the goal any less meaningful or necessary.

jomo
05-28-2012, 11:18 AM
lol, now back to the point of your thread, I think RB is the most fascinating battle shaping up and I believe that Scott and Martinek will emerge as the winners. The OL is less scary than it has been recently and I believe that we are assembling some good depth as well. I think the "starter" label is less significant with the LB's because PF will us situational substitutions where we may play 5 or even 6 linebackers during a game. Can't wait to get this season rolling! Go Blue!!

Toadofsteel
05-28-2012, 11:33 AM
lol, now back to the point of your thread, I think RB is the most fascinating battle shaping up and I believe that Scott and Martinek will emerge as the winners. The OL is less scary than it has been recently and I believe that we are assembling some good depth as well. I think the "starter" label is less significant with the LB's because PF will us situational substitutions where we may play 5 or even 6 linebackers during a game. Can't wait to get this season rolling! Go Blue!!

The battle between Scott and Wilson will come down to who can control their fumbling issues better. I know that our coaching staff are veterans at coaching fumblitis out of our RB's, so it's just a matter of when each RB can be reliable with ball security.

jomo
05-28-2012, 11:43 AM
lol, now back to the point of your thread, I think RB is the most fascinating battle shaping up and I believe that Scott and Martinek will emerge as the winners. The OL is less scary than it has been recently and I believe that we are assembling some good depth as well. I think the "starter" label is less significant with the LB's because PF will us situational substitutions where we may play 5 or even 6 linebackers during a game. Can't wait to get this season rolling! Go Blue!!

The battle between Scott and Wilson will come down to who can control their fumbling issues better. I know that our coaching staff are veterans at coaching fumblitis out of our RB's, so it's just a matter of when each RB can be reliable with ball security.I see Wilson as the clear #2 right now but there will be competition. If he can't hang onto the ball, he will move down the depth chart.

RoanokeFan
05-28-2012, 11:47 AM
lol, now back to the point of your thread, I think RB is the most fascinating battle shaping up and I believe that Scott and Martinek will emerge as the winners. The OL is less scary than it has been recently and I believe that we are assembling some good depth as well. I think the "starter" label is less significant with the LB's because PF will us situational substitutions where we may play 5 or even 6 linebackers during a game. Can't wait to get this season rolling! Go Blue!!

The battle between Scott and Wilson will come down to who can control their fumbling issues better. I know that our coaching staff are veterans at coaching fumblitis out of our RB's, so it's just a matter of when each RB can be reliable with ball security.I see Wilson as the clear #2 right now but there will be competition. If he can't hang onto the ball, he will move down the depth chart.

Nothing gets a player into TC's dog house faster than fumbling the ball. A fate hard to recover from.

Toadofsteel
05-28-2012, 12:57 PM
lol, now back to the point of your thread, I think RB is the most fascinating battle shaping up and I believe that Scott and Martinek will emerge as the winners. The OL is less scary than it has been recently and I believe that we are assembling some good depth as well. I think the "starter" label is less significant with the LB's because PF will us situational substitutions where we may play 5 or even 6 linebackers during a game. Can't wait to get this season rolling! Go Blue!!

The battle between Scott and Wilson will come down to who can control their fumbling issues better. I know that our coaching staff are veterans at coaching fumblitis out of our RB's, so it's just a matter of when each RB can be reliable with ball security.I see Wilson as the clear #2 right now but there will be competition. If he can't hang onto the ball, he will move down the depth chart.

Nothing gets a player into TC's dog house faster than fumbling the ball.* A fate hard to recover from.


At least even in the dog house, TC will work with you. You won't see any snaps in a game, but you'll get a lot of coaching on fixing the problem. That right there is what TC is about...

Duckdownman
05-28-2012, 01:26 PM
Injuries will happen regardless of how soft
Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the
torn ACL of <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon">Brian
Witherspoon</a> and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks),
both suffered in non-competitive drills.

I think the writer doesn't really understand Roger Goodell's goal. Sure eliminating injuries is partially responsible for 'soft practices' but I feel that he is trying to prevent things like concussions, that can have a lasting effect on someone, and could cause major problems post-career, for example all the players who committed suicide due to depression (RIP), which besides the obvious moral reasons one would try to eliminate those things, there is the legal problems, that the nfl does not want to face, in the future. I hardly think the NFL is too worried about torn acl's in practice as much as the potentially post-career damaging injuries that some of the players face.

Interesting point, but how many NFL concussions have occurred during pre season, historically? I'm not sure your point about "Goodell's goal" for pre season practice is any more valid than Valentine's.
Statistically, across all levels of play, more concussions happen in practice than in game.


I doubt that. Can you provide any type of info to back up your statement? Usually practice will result in muscle tears or pulls but it's pretty hard to get a concussion in practice where it's rarely even full contact not to mention much of the times it's not even full pads. If a concussion did happen in practice (I'm sure they have) I'd consider it a fluke or an unusual fall, not from a big hit. Point is the concussion issue is game related.

Drez
05-28-2012, 04:38 PM
Injuries will happen regardless of how soft Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the torn ACL of Brian Witherspoon (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon) and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks), both suffered in non-competitive drills. I think the writer doesn't really understand Roger Goodell's goal. Sure eliminating injuries is partially responsible for 'soft practices' but I feel that he is trying to prevent things like concussions, that can have a lasting effect on someone, and could cause major problems post-career, for example all the players who committed suicide due to depression (RIP), which besides the obvious moral reasons one would try to eliminate those things, there is the legal problems, that the nfl does not want to face, in the future. I hardly think the NFL is too worried about torn acl's in practice as much as the potentially post-career damaging injuries that some of the players face. Interesting point, but how many NFL concussions have occurred during pre season, historically? I'm not sure your point about "Goodell's goal" for pre season practice is any more valid than Valentine's.
Statistically, across all levels of play, more concussions happen in practice than in game.
</p>


Link?</p>


Cn't imagine that is true now in the NFL given how much they have limited the amount of live hitting in practices . . . . </p>
That's why I said, "across all levels of play." There is much more hitting in HS and college practices.

I don't have a link, heard it several times on several different radio shows when talking about the topic.

Drez
05-28-2012, 04:39 PM
Injuries will happen regardless of how soft
Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to make practices for NFL teams. Witness the
torn ACL of <a class="sbn-auto-link" href="http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/34785/brian-witherspoon">Brian
Witherspoon</a> and the broken foot of Hakeem Nicks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/71294/hakeem-nicks),
both suffered in non-competitive drills.

I think the writer doesn't really understand Roger Goodell's goal. Sure eliminating injuries is partially responsible for 'soft practices' but I feel that he is trying to prevent things like concussions, that can have a lasting effect on someone, and could cause major problems post-career, for example all the players who committed suicide due to depression (RIP), which besides the obvious moral reasons one would try to eliminate those things, there is the legal problems, that the nfl does not want to face, in the future. I hardly think the NFL is too worried about torn acl's in practice as much as the potentially post-career damaging injuries that some of the players face.

Interesting point, but how many NFL concussions have occurred during pre season, historically? I'm not sure your point about "Goodell's goal" for pre season practice is any more valid than Valentine's.
Statistically, across all levels of play, more concussions happen in practice than in game.


I doubt that. Can you provide any type of info to back up your statement? Usually practice will result in muscle tears or pulls but it's pretty hard to get a concussion in practice where it's rarely even full contact not to mention much of the times it's not even full pads. If a concussion did happen in practice (I'm sure they have) I'd consider it a fluke or an unusual fall, not from a big hit. Point is the concussion issue is game related.
Do people know how to read?

JesseJames
05-28-2012, 05:13 PM
working to eliminate concussions in a sport where 300+ pound men run around at top speed hitting each other is an admirable goal, good luck with that..

The difficulty of the task doesn't make the goal any less meaningful or necessary.
I didn't say it wasn't meaningful just very difficult and something that people have been working on since I've been following pro football. Apparently the answer will come from a combination of equipment improvements and rule changes. Its the rule changes part that concerns me because the game has already changed plenty in the passed few years but I guess I'm all for anything that keeps a guy from serious injury...

RoanokeFan
05-28-2012, 05:28 PM
working to eliminate concussions in a sport where 300+ pound men run around at top speed hitting each other is an admirable goal, good luck with that..

The difficulty of the task doesn't make the goal any less meaningful or necessary.
I didn't say it wasn't meaningful just very difficult and something that people have been working on since I've been following pro football. Apparently the answer will come from a combination of equipment improvements and rule changes. Its the rule changes part that concerns me because the game has already changed plenty in the passed few years but I guess I'm all for anything that keeps a guy from serious injury...

I'm not sure there is a fix to be had from equipment. The concussive effects occur when the brain moves forcefully enough to hit the skull on at least two surfaces. The only realistic fix for that is to not have violent collisions with other players or the ground. If I understand it correctly, always iffy, even if you could design a helmet that prevented the head from moving within the helmet, you still can't stop the brain from moving within the skull when there is a abrupt change in movement.

This is going to be a huge issue it seems.

JJC7301
05-28-2012, 08:39 PM
It seems like Commissioner Roger Goodell is the Anti NFL because his actions look like it wants to mess up the NFL. Soon or later no sacks from behind or just get rid of them completely.
I think that Goodell has been excellent for the NFL. Excellent.

JJC7301
05-28-2012, 08:39 PM
working to eliminate concussions in a sport where 300+ pound men run around at top speed hitting each other is an admirable goal, good luck with that..

The difficulty of the task doesn't make the goal any less meaningful or necessary.
I didn't say it wasn't meaningful just very difficult and something that people have been working on since I've been following pro football. Apparently the answer will come from a combination of equipment improvements and rule changes. Its the rule changes part that concerns me because the game has already changed plenty in the passed few years but I guess I'm all for anything that keeps a guy from serious injury...

I'm not sure there is a fix to be had from equipment.* The concussive effects occur when the brain moves forcefully enough to hit the skull on at least two surfaces.* The only realistic fix for that is to not have violent collisions with other players or the ground.* If I understand it correctly, always iffy, even if you could design a helmet that prevented the head from moving within the helmet, you still can't stop the brain from moving within the skull when there is a abrupt change in movement.

This is going to be a huge issue it seems.

What if they focused more on tackling instead of hitting, especially big hits. Can't they just tackle instead of putting a jarring hit on someone?

RoanokeFan
05-28-2012, 08:47 PM
working to eliminate concussions in a sport where 300+ pound men run around at top speed hitting each other is an admirable goal, good luck with that..

The difficulty of the task doesn't make the goal any less meaningful or necessary.
I didn't say it wasn't meaningful just very difficult and something that people have been working on since I've been following pro football. Apparently the answer will come from a combination of equipment improvements and rule changes. Its the rule changes part that concerns me because the game has already changed plenty in the passed few years but I guess I'm all for anything that keeps a guy from serious injury...

I'm not sure there is a fix to be had from equipment. The concussive effects occur when the brain moves forcefully enough to hit the skull on at least two surfaces. The only realistic fix for that is to not have violent collisions with other players or the ground. If I understand it correctly, always iffy, even if you could design a helmet that prevented the head from moving within the helmet, you still can't stop the brain from moving within the skull when there is a abrupt change in movement.

This is going to be a huge issue it seems.

What if they focused more on tackling instead of hitting, especially big hits. Can't they just tackle instead of putting a jarring hit on someone?

Yes, theoretically. But easier said than done. Once the whistle blows, these guys' instincts take over. It's not a situation where anyone (most of the time) is trying to knock another player out, but it happens either by direct contact or resulting contact with the turf.