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Tuckit91
05-27-2012, 07:35 PM
Poll: America's Team is...Yes the Cowboys but the Giants are tied for 3rd



When a poll released in December showed that the Green Bay Packers had surpassed the Cowboys as the NFL's most popular team -- and had garnered twice as many votes as the Cowboys, to boot -- some were left wondering if Green Bay was more deserving of the "America's Team" moniker than a club that hasn't won a Super Bowl since 1995. But after a one-and-done run through the postseason, the Packers' popularity seems to have seriously waned, if a poll conducted by ESPN this week is to be believed. The new poll showed the Cowboys had returned to the top of the NFL food chain, earning the title of favorite team from 8.8 percent of respondents, while the Packers only garnered 7.2 percent, good for second place. The New York Giants tied with the Pittsburgh Steelers for third place, while the Philadelphia Eagles (9th) and the Washington Redskins (13th) rounded out the rest of the NFC East. The Cowboys' division was easily the league's most popular, garnering a cumulative 22.2 percent of the total vote.

Giants10Joe
05-27-2012, 07:40 PM
No real fan is going to ditch their team after a first round playoff exit. It makes no sense that in a span of 6 months, the Packers lost the 1 spot.

I think it might be more interesting if the poll asked "What is your second favorite team?" Everyone is going to say the team closest to where they live for favorite team. "America's Team" is the team people root for when their team is having a bad year or is eliminated from the playoffs or isn't in the game. For me it's the Packers, and I suspect the Packers are probably more popular than the Cowboys in this sense.

Diamondring
05-27-2012, 07:41 PM
I rather Giants are the Champions of the World.

WR4Life
05-27-2012, 07:49 PM
Profootballtalk had an article out about this Poll. It's bogus. It is based on a pole of 1500 people. Sorry. To me that doesn't represent the country as a whole. What isn't mentioned hear is that the Cowboys, although garnering most votes, still finished in second. I forget the exact percent but I believe slightly over 10% voted that they didn't have a favorite team.

FBomb
05-27-2012, 08:27 PM
Well, there's no accounting for taste.</P>


The only thing that poll tells me is that there are A LOT more backwards ***, toothless grinning trailer dwellers that "like that fancy star and the stripper poles in the stadium" than there are people who actually know anything about the game.</P>


America's team my ***.</P>

Diamondring
05-27-2012, 08:32 PM
Well, there's no accounting for taste.</P>


The only thing that poll tells me is that there are A LOT more backwards ***, toothless grinning trailer dwellers that "like that fancy star and the stripper poles in the stadium" than there are people who actually know anything about the game.</P>


America's team my ***.</P>I say and everyone should say that right now the Giants are Americas Team since they won the Superbowl. bWAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!

THE_New_York_Giants
05-27-2012, 08:46 PM
the giants are the Universe's and God's team. Nothing else matters.

Rudyy
05-27-2012, 09:28 PM
the giants are the Universe's and God's team. Nothing else matters. This made me laugh so hard. Probably because it's true.

Toadofsteel
05-27-2012, 11:08 PM
No real fan is going to ditch their team after a first round playoff exit. It makes no sense that in a span of 6 months, the Packers lost the 1 spot.

I think it might be more interesting if the poll asked "What is your second favorite team?" Everyone is going to say the team closest to where they live for favorite team. "America's Team" is the team people root for when their team is having a bad year or is eliminated from the playoffs or isn't in the game. For me it's the Packers, and I suspect the Packers are probably more popular than the Cowboys in this sense.


The Pack lost their bandwagon fans from SB XLV, which explains it. GB is the only team that seems to be as universally popular as the Cowboys, except that GB is a truly good team. I for one rooted for them after the Giants were out of contention in 2010 (even if it was them that put the final nail in the coffin for the Giants).

The problem is that "America's Team" is an artifact title from the days of Staubach, White, etc. We all know that here, but unless you know your football history, you would just as well assume that it still applied to the Cowboys. That's where the delusion in the Cowboys fanbase comes from.

Drez
05-27-2012, 11:24 PM
Profootballtalk had an article out about this Poll. It's bogus. It is based on a pole of 1500 people. Sorry. To me that doesn't represent the country as a whole. What isn't mentioned hear is that the Cowboys, although garnering most votes, still finished in second. I forget the exact percent but I believe slightly over 10% voted that they didn't have a favorite team.

If chosen properly, 1500 people is more than enough for a good sample.

Toadofsteel
05-28-2012, 12:31 AM
Profootballtalk had an article out about this Poll. It's bogus. It is based on a pole of 1500 people. Sorry. To me that doesn't represent the country as a whole. What isn't mentioned hear is that the Cowboys, although garnering most votes, still finished in second. I forget the exact percent but I believe slightly over 10% voted that they didn't have a favorite team.

If chosen properly, 1500 people is more than enough for a good sample.




The question is, is it chosen properly?

Drez
05-28-2012, 01:10 AM
Profootballtalk had an article out about this Poll. It's bogus. It is based on a pole of 1500 people. Sorry. To me that doesn't represent the country as a whole. What isn't mentioned hear is that the Cowboys, although garnering most votes, still finished in second. I forget the exact percent but I believe slightly over 10% voted that they didn't have a favorite team.

If chosen properly, 1500 people is more than enough for a good sample.




The question is, is it chosen properly?
The more pertinent question is does it really matter if it was?

Would it come as a surprise to anyone if the Cowboys are the most popular, GB 2nd, with the Giants and Steelers a close 3rd?

Mohann
05-28-2012, 02:41 AM
The Cowboys' division was easily the league's most popular, garnering a cumulative 22.2 percent of the total vote.

The Cowboys' Division? Are we in the NFC Dallas? Friggin hack writer.

SweetZombieJesus
05-28-2012, 09:15 AM
The Cowboys' division was
easily the league's most popular, garnering a cumulative 22.2 percent of
the total vote.

The Cowboys' Division? Are we in the NFC Dallas? Friggin hack writer.


Yes, the delusional Cow**** fanbase sees the league as the Cowboys and 31 other JV teams that aren't really important. They don't belong on the same field and they're just there to be fodder for the mighty Cowboys to win their 36th Super Bowl in a row, woooooo!


The Pack lost their bandwagon fans from SB XLV, which explains it. GB is the only team that seems to be as universally popular as the Cowboys, except that GB is a truly good team.

I really have to disagree that the Cowboys are "America's Team" or at least deserve that title without sharing it.

Green Bay, as noted, has wide appeal nationwide -- partly due to its midwestern appeal, mostly due to the residue of Lombardi's 5-in-7-years dynasty.

Pittsburgh has some of the most rabid and loyal fans concentrated in the rust belt but what I've seen is they are throughout the country and come out of the woodwork... When the steel industry crashed Pittsburghers scattered around the country to find work and never gave up their loyalty. So the combination of the Pittsburgh exodus and the 4-in-6 years Bradshaw dynasty.

As for the Cowboys, Landry did set impossibly high standards and sustained excellence in a time when the NFC was weak, even though he lost 3 Super Bowls as opposed to the two he won. And then add on another layer of idiots from the Jimmy Johnson teams... My experience is that the Johnson era fans are the bandwagon jumpers, the idiots who don't know a whole lot about football and wake up from hibernation each year for Cowboy hype and stash their gear in the closet when they're out of it each year.

Then again we all know the safe bandwagon type -- Cowboys/Yankees/Notre Dame/Lakers. Go to the Cowboys boards and see how many of them claim to be Yankee fans.

License Plate Guy made a jersey that's Yankees on the front and Giants on the back, and you should have seen the comments about the picture -- there was lots of anti-Giants comments and even though there is a huge Giants-Yankees overlap in the fan base, there is a big contingent of Jests fans and bandwagon fans just looking to shout "woooo 27 woooo" but couldn't tell you who is in right field.

Toadofsteel
05-28-2012, 11:17 AM
there was lots of anti-Giants comments and even though there is a huge Giants-Yankees overlap in the fan base, there is a big contingent of Jests fans and bandwagon fans just looking to shout "woooo 27 woooo" but couldn't tell you who is in right field.


<font color="red">When did Who become a right fielder? I thought he played first base...</red>

Bohemian
05-28-2012, 11:42 AM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team? All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title. There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals. I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait! The Olympic games are around the corner! Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!

BeatYale
05-28-2012, 01:23 PM
The Cowboys will always be "Middle America's Team"

http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/joethastud/TRAILERTRASH.png

giantsfan420
05-28-2012, 01:29 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team?* All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title.* There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.*

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals.* I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait!* The Olympic games are around the corner!* Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!


R u sure u dont mean liberalism? Libertarians are avid supporters of nationalism and soveriegnty. We r all about maintaining the values that america signifies. I agree that americas team is a hollow title, but its not an anti libertarian concept imo.

And the olympics applies as well. We r americans, we should have americans represent us just as brazilians rep brazil and spaniards rep spain...its when borders r removed and national sovereignty is lost and we r all just some global member is when libertarians are threatened and the beliefs challenged.

FBomb
05-28-2012, 01:49 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team? All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title. There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals. I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait! The Olympic games are around the corner! Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!
</P>


Not only is this completely uncalled for, but it's nothing more than propaganda repeated by someone that was TOLD by someone else what his particular political views represent. It's no different than the other poltical rhetoric coming from all sides.</P>


"America's Team", while an empty title, has nothing to do with nationalism.....it is simply a ratio of fan support throughout the United States. Simply put, there are more Cowboys fans in America than any other. It's a sad commentary, but it's not political.</P>


The same can be said for the Olympics. American athletes are "home team".....nothing more. If you are using andtwisting your political views in order to be critical of athletic competition than your opinions are biased and therefore not worthy of bother.</P>


Keep this **** off the boards please.</P>


</P>


</P>

Bohemian
05-28-2012, 03:06 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team? All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title. There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals. I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait! The Olympic games are around the corner! Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!
</p>


Not only is this completely uncalled for, but it's nothing more than propaganda repeated by someone that was TOLD by someone else what his particular political views represent. It's no different than the other poltical rhetoric coming from all sides.</p>


"America's Team", while an empty title, has nothing to do with nationalism.....it is simply a ratio of fan support throughout the United States. Simply put, there are more Cowboys fans in America than any other. It's a sad commentary, but it's not political.</p>


The same can be said for the Olympics. American athletes are "home team".....nothing more. If you are using andtwisting your political views in order to be critical of athletic competition than your opinions are biased and therefore not worthy of bother.</p>


Keep this **** off the boards please.</p>


</p>


</p>

I do apologize for the post. It completely escaped me that the timing of it was completely inappropriate, and even the manner that it was presented could have been much improved. I do have very strong reservations against nationalism as a libertarian; and as a result, when I do feel the need to object to the romanticizing the matter through sports and entertainment.

I have a very large family history who have fought in wars, in Europe and different part of the Americas, so I have great respect for ideals, but not much tolerance for propaganda.

The critique is certainly not one of athletic competition, as the exposition of human capacity is a genuine and desired endeavor for all of us, but the problem is when we use such exposition of pioneering for ethnocentric purposes. I think that this is not about promoting any one political point of view, as much as, providing a critical deconstructivist lens to the semantics behind the discourse of sports at the national-international level.

I do have more to say on the matter, but I do apologize for having offended anyone in expressing my opinion. I have great respect for those who sacrifice their freedom for the liberty of others, and recognized that this forum is clearly not the place where such discourse is useful nor desired.

My apologies.

Go Blue!

Bohemian
05-28-2012, 03:22 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team? All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title. There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals. I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait! The Olympic games are around the corner! Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!


R u sure u dont mean liberalism? Libertarians are avid supporters of nationalism and soveriegnty. We r all about maintaining the values that america signifies. I agree that americas team is a hollow title, but its not an anti libertarian concept imo.

And the olympics applies as well. We r americans, we should have americans represent us just as brazilians rep brazil and spaniards rep spain...its when borders r removed and national sovereignty is lost and we r all just some global member is when libertarians are threatened and the beliefs challenged.

yeah, I already posted an explanation and apology about getting carried away about my critique on the matter, so do please read it if you were offended... as it seems that I have stepped on many toes today. Something that I clearly was not desiring, nor desire to do. But I just wanted to refer to your question regarding the difference between Libertarianism vs. Liberalism.

They are closely tied in the historical struggle against arbitrary power, frequently specifically referring to imperial monarchies, as that is where most can agree that both terms originated as political philosophies. Their differences can be primarily characterized in that one recognizes the role of need for hierarchical governance structures and the other does not. The main problem with the term 'liberal' is that today we use it to mean some kind of anti-establishment left-wing or socialist view against systems or mechanisms of power (like capitalism or the death penalty), but to use the term 'liberal' for such expression of dissent is philosophically vague and historically misplaced. To call a person a 'liberal' only means that s/he expresses dissent towards a form of social order, but not much about the aims or relationships that s/he may have with any particular politico-philosophical reference. Anyhow, I really don't want to get too much into it on this forum, as it is way way off base with our favorite team... so if you write me a private message, I would gladly continue the discussion, but only if you are interested political philosophy.

FBomb
05-28-2012, 07:29 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team? All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title. There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals. I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait! The Olympic games are around the corner! Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!
</P>


Not only is this completely uncalled for, but it's nothing more than propaganda repeated by someone that was TOLD by someone else what his particular political views represent. It's no different than the other poltical rhetoric coming from all sides.</P>


"America's Team", while an empty title, has nothing to do with nationalism.....it is simply a ratio of fan support throughout the United States. Simply put, there are more Cowboys fans in America than any other. It's a sad commentary, but it's not political.</P>


The same can be said for the Olympics. American athletes are "home team".....nothing more. If you are using andtwisting your political views in order to be critical of athletic competition than your opinions are biased and therefore not worthy of bother.</P>


Keep this **** off the boards please.</P>


</P>


</P>




I do apologize for the post. It completely escaped me that the timing of it was completely inappropriate, and even the manner that it was presented could have been much improved. I do have very strong reservations against nationalism as a libertarian; and as a result, when I do feel the need to object to the romanticizing the matter through sports and entertainment.

I have a very large family history who have fought in wars, in Europe and different part of the Americas, so I have great respect for ideals, but not much tolerance for propaganda.

The critique is certainly not one of athletic competition, as the exposition of human capacity is a genuine and desired endeavor for all of us, but the problem is when we use such exposition of pioneering for ethnocentric purposes. I think that this is not about promoting any one political point of view, as much as, providing a critical deconstructivist lens to the semantics behind the discourse of sports at the national-international level.

I do have more to say on the matter, but I do apologize for having offended anyone in expressing my opinion. I have great respect for those who sacrifice their freedom for the liberty of others, and recognized that this forum is clearly not the place where such discourse is useful nor desired.

My apologies.

Go Blue!
</P>


Yeah....thanks for ruining such a great thread!!! [;)]</P>


Wouldn't mind finding a forum we could discuss "history", as it were. I suspect that we are both coming from the same place, just took different paths. VIVA LE REVOLUTION!!</P>

THE_New_York_Giants
05-28-2012, 08:16 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team?* All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title.* There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.*

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals.* I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait!* The Olympic games are around the corner!* Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!
</P>


Not only is this completely uncalled for, but it's nothing more than propaganda repeated by someone that was TOLD by someone else what his particular political views represent. It's no different than the other poltical rhetoric coming from all sides.</P>


"America's Team", while an empty title, has nothing to do with nationalism.....it is simply a ratio of fan support throughout the United States.* Simply put, there are more Cowboys fans in America than any other.* It's a sad commentary, but it's not political.</P>


The same can be said for the Olympics.* American athletes are "home team".....nothing more.* If you are using and*twisting your political views in order to be critical of athletic competition than your opinions are biased and therefore not worthy of bother.</P>


Keep this **** off the boards please.</P>


*</P>


*</P>




I do apologize for the post.* It completely escaped me that the timing of it was completely inappropriate, and even the manner that it was presented could have been much improved.* I do have very strong reservations against nationalism as a libertarian; and as a result, when I do feel the need to object to the romanticizing the matter through sports and entertainment.

I have a very large family history who have fought in wars, in Europe and different part of the Americas, so I have great respect for ideals, but not much tolerance for propaganda.

The critique is certainly not one of athletic competition, as the exposition of human capacity is a genuine and desired endeavor for all of us, but the problem is when we use such exposition of pioneering for ethnocentric purposes.* I think that this is not about promoting any one political point of view, as much as, providing a critical deconstructivist* lens to the semantics behind the discourse of sports at the national-international level.

I do have more to say on the matter, but I do apologize for having offended anyone in expressing my opinion.* I have great respect for those who sacrifice their freedom for the liberty of others, and recognized that this forum is clearly not the place where such discourse is useful nor desired.

My apologies.

Go Blue!
</P>


Yeah....thanks for ruining such a great thread!!! [;)]</P>


Wouldn't mind finding a forum we could discuss "history", as it were.* I suspect that we are both coming from the same place, just took different paths.* VIVA LE REVOLUTION!!</P>

As a fellow libertarian, I don't really understand where you are coming from, but as a libertarian, I respect your right to say it. ;) Everybody is nationalistic in some way or another.

Drez
05-28-2012, 08:21 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team? All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title. There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals. I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait! The Olympic games are around the corner! Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!
</p>


Not only is this completely uncalled for, but it's nothing more than propaganda repeated by someone that was TOLD by someone else what his particular political views represent. It's no different than the other poltical rhetoric coming from all sides.</p>


"America's Team", while an empty title, has nothing to do with nationalism.....it is simply a ratio of fan support throughout the United States. Simply put, there are more Cowboys fans in America than any other. It's a sad commentary, but it's not political.</p>


The same can be said for the Olympics. American athletes are "home team".....nothing more. If you are using andtwisting your political views in order to be critical of athletic competition than your opinions are biased and therefore not worthy of bother.</p>


Keep this **** off the boards please.</p>


</p>


</p>

I do apologize for the post. It completely escaped me that the timing of it was completely inappropriate, and even the manner that it was presented could have been much improved. I do have very strong reservations against nationalism as a libertarian; and as a result, when I do feel the need to object to the romanticizing the matter through sports and entertainment.

I have a very large family history who have fought in wars, in Europe and different part of the Americas, so I have great respect for ideals, but not much tolerance for propaganda.

The critique is certainly not one of athletic competition, as the exposition of human capacity is a genuine and desired endeavor for all of us, but the problem is when we use such exposition of pioneering for ethnocentric purposes. I think that this is not about promoting any one political point of view, as much as, providing a critical deconstructivist lens to the semantics behind the discourse of sports at the national-international level.

I do have more to say on the matter, but I do apologize for having offended anyone in expressing my opinion. I have great respect for those who sacrifice their freedom for the liberty of others, and recognized that this forum is clearly not the place where such discourse is useful nor desired.

My apologies.

Go Blue!

Your personal beliefs aside, how the hell did you get the blending of nationalism and sports from the Cowboys being called "America's Team" rather than that moniker just being a way of saying America's most popular/favorite team?

lol

JJC7301
05-28-2012, 08:28 PM
No real fan is going to ditch their team after a first round playoff exit. It makes no sense that in a span of 6 months, the Packers lost the 1 spot.

I think it might be more interesting if the poll asked "What is your second favorite team?" Everyone is going to say the team closest to where they live for favorite team. "America's Team" is the team people root for when their team is having a bad year or is eliminated from the playoffs or isn't in the game. For me it's the Packers, and I suspect the Packers are probably more popular than the Cowboys in this sense.

It made no sense at all that the Pack ever beat out the 'boys for # 1 fan base across the nation to begin with. There is no way that they have a larger fan base than the Steelers either. The Steelers probably have a larger fan base than the Giants, but then again there are so many transplanted Giant fans across the country that it does make sense that the two would be tied.

Nothing against the Pack who I know have a national following, but I just absolutely do not believe that they have a larger fan base than the 'boys, Steelers, and Giants. No way. It'll take a 5-year running set of polls for me to believe that.

JJC7301
05-28-2012, 08:36 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team?* All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title.* There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.*

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals.* I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait!* The Olympic games are around the corner!* Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!


R u sure u dont mean liberalism? Libertarians are avid supporters of nationalism and soveriegnty. We r all about maintaining the values that america signifies. I agree that americas team is a hollow title, but its not an anti libertarian concept imo.

And the olympics applies as well. We r americans, we should have americans represent us just as brazilians rep brazil and spaniards rep spain...its when borders r removed and national sovereignty is lost and we r all just some global member is when libertarians are threatened and the beliefs challenged.

yeah, I already posted an explanation and apology about getting carried away about my critique on the matter, so do please read it if you were offended... as it seems that I have stepped on many toes today.* Something that I clearly was not desiring, nor desire to do.** But I just wanted to refer to your question regarding the difference between Libertarianism vs. Liberalism.

They are closely tied in the historical struggle against arbitrary power, frequently specifically referring to imperial monarchies, as that is where most can agree that both terms originated as political philosophies.* Their differences can be primarily characterized in that one recognizes the role of need for hierarchical governance structures and the other does not.* The main problem with the term 'liberal' is that today we use it to mean some kind of anti-establishment left-wing or socialist view against systems or mechanisms of power (like capitalism or the death penalty), but to use the term 'liberal' for such expression of dissent is philosophically vague and historically misplaced.* To call a person a 'liberal' only means that s/he expresses dissent towards a form of social order, but not much about the aims or relationships that s/he may have with any particular politico-philosophical reference.** Anyhow, I really don't want to get too much into it on this forum, as it is way way off base with our favorite team... so if you write me a private message, I would gladly continue the discussion, but only if you are interested political philosophy.

One book that changed the political prism of how view and question things politically is "What It Means to be a Libertarian" by Charles Murray. I read it 20 years ago and is an excellent introduction into the libertarian prism of thinking. One of my most personal influential books.

I won't go any further into politics -- just wanted to put a plug out there for a book since this thread has developed the way that it did.

Drez
05-28-2012, 08:44 PM
No real fan is going to ditch their team after a first round playoff exit. It makes no sense that in a span of 6 months, the Packers lost the 1 spot.

I think it might be more interesting if the poll asked "What is your second favorite team?" Everyone is going to say the team closest to where they live for favorite team. "America's Team" is the team people root for when their team is having a bad year or is eliminated from the playoffs or isn't in the game. For me it's the Packers, and I suspect the Packers are probably more popular than the Cowboys in this sense.

It made no sense at all that the Pack ever beat out the 'boys for # 1 fan base across the nation to begin with. There is no way that they have a larger fan base than the Steelers either. The Steelers probably have a larger fan base than the Giants, but then again there are so many transplanted Giant fans across the country that it does make sense that the two would be tied.

Nothing against the Pack who I know have a national following, but I just absolutely do not believe that they have a larger fan base than the 'boys, Steelers, and Giants. No way. It'll take a 5-year running set of polls for me to believe that.
Well, I don't know if you'd be right in thinking that. There's actually a series of organizations called the Packer Backers in various communities across the country. I don't think the same can be said of any of the other teams you mentioned.

FBomb
05-28-2012, 08:45 PM
To accentuate my libertarian attitude towards nationalism... The New York Giants are the most important team, because they are my team.

I could not care for my team being any country's team, because if the Cowboys is America's team... then, who would be Nigeria's team, or Portugal's team, or Brazil's team? All in all, it is an absolutely hollow title. There is no fan discount in being America's team, and the team is not a public service institution.

Lets keep our heads on straight while romanticizing about such ideals. I really don't mean to be a Debby Downer, but combining nationalism and sports is a act of lunacy.

Oh, wait! The Olympic games are around the corner! Never mind... do ahead and battle all you want about who is 'America' team'... because the craziness that is the Olympics will drive me crazy for a whole month this summer... I can't wait until it is all over, even as it has not even begun.

It's going to be a long summer for libertarians everywhere.

Go blue!
</P>


Not only is this completely uncalled for, but it's nothing more than propaganda repeated by someone that was TOLD by someone else what his particular political views represent. It's no different than the other poltical rhetoric coming from all sides.</P>


"America's Team", while an empty title, has nothing to do with nationalism.....it is simply a ratio of fan support throughout the United States. Simply put, there are more Cowboys fans in America than any other. It's a sad commentary, but it's not political.</P>


The same can be said for the Olympics. American athletes are "home team".....nothing more. If you are using andtwisting your political views in order to be critical of athletic competition than your opinions are biased and therefore not worthy of bother.</P>


Keep this **** off the boards please.</P>


</P>


</P>




I do apologize for the post. It completely escaped me that the timing of it was completely inappropriate, and even the manner that it was presented could have been much improved. I do have very strong reservations against nationalism as a libertarian; and as a result, when I do feel the need to object to the romanticizing the matter through sports and entertainment.

I have a very large family history who have fought in wars, in Europe and different part of the Americas, so I have great respect for ideals, but not much tolerance for propaganda.

The critique is certainly not one of athletic competition, as the exposition of human capacity is a genuine and desired endeavor for all of us, but the problem is when we use such exposition of pioneering for ethnocentric purposes. I think that this is not about promoting any one political point of view, as much as, providing a critical deconstructivist lens to the semantics behind the discourse of sports at the national-international level.

I do have more to say on the matter, but I do apologize for having offended anyone in expressing my opinion. I have great respect for those who sacrifice their freedom for the liberty of others, and recognized that this forum is clearly not the place where such discourse is useful nor desired.

My apologies.

Go Blue!
</P>


Yeah....thanks for ruining such a great thread!!! [;)]</P>


Wouldn't mind finding a forum we could discuss "history", as it were. I suspect that we are both coming from the same place, just took different paths. VIVA LE REVOLUTION!!</P>


As a fellow libertarian, I don't really understand where you are coming from, but as a libertarian, I respect your right to say it. ;) Everybody is nationalistic in some way or another.</P>


Sorry I was vague, as the mods really do hate the discussion of politics, but I am NOT a libertarian. I'd rather tear the whole thing down and start over. </P>

MikeIsaGiant
05-29-2012, 10:31 AM
WHAT THE **** DOES AMERICAS TEAM EVEN MEAN?


God, I hate that damn term

Bohemian
05-29-2012, 11:17 AM
WHAT THE **** DOES AMERICAS TEAM EVEN MEAN?


God, I hate that damn term

LOL! I already got in trouble for taking it too seriously... so I am staying out of this one.... but take my advise, and just let it be.

It's a gigantic can of worms!

:)

SweetZombieJesus
05-29-2012, 11:43 AM
WHAT THE **** DOES AMERICAS TEAM EVEN MEAN?


God, I hate that damn term

I HATE HATE HATE when something is marketed as AMERICA'S FAVORITE _________.

HATE IT.

It's cheap. It's sloppy. It's lazy. It's brainless. It targets your fear of not fitting in.

Not just the Cowboys... McDonalds is America's Favorite restaurant. K-Mart is America's favorite retailer. The Toyota Camry is America's favorite car. Pizza Hut is America's favorite pizza joint. CBS is America's favorite network. Wheel of Fortune is America's favorite game show. All ****.

It speaks of the sheep mentality -- use our product because everybody else does. Not because it's better or has some advantage, but because everybody else does.

You don't want to be different, do you? You don't want to stand out from the mindless crowds, do you? CONFORM. Don't take the chance. Be a mindless zombie and consume what other people consume so that you don't have to worry about drawing attention to yourself.

People who don't know pizza go to pizza hut. People who don't know or care about cars buy Camrys. You get the picture.

THE_New_York_Giants
05-29-2012, 11:53 AM
WHAT THE **** DOES AMERICAS TEAM EVEN MEAN?


God, I hate that damn term

I HATE HATE HATE when something is marketed as AMERICA'S FAVORITE _________.

HATE IT.

It's cheap.* It's sloppy.* It's lazy.* It's brainless.* It targets your fear of not fitting in.

Not just the Cowboys...* McDonalds is America's Favorite restaurant.* K-Mart is America's favorite retailer.* The Toyota Camry is America's favorite car.* Pizza Hut is America's favorite pizza joint.* CBS is America's favorite network.* Wheel of Fortune is America's favorite game show.* All ****.*

It speaks of the sheep mentality -- use our product because everybody else does.* Not because it's better or has some advantage, but because everybody else does.

You don't want to be different, do you?* You don't want to stand out from the mindless crowds, do you?* CONFORM.* Don't take the chance.* Be a mindless zombie and consume what other people consume so that you don't have to worry about drawing attention to yourself.

People who don't know pizza go to pizza hut.* People who don't know or care about cars buy Camrys.* You get the picture.


If something is America's favorite, I refuse to like it. That should only sell to the 'tards whose only defense is "that's un-American". I'm glad I hold 2 citizenships.

MikeIsaGiant
05-29-2012, 12:27 PM
Yeah, like L&B is everyone's favorite pizza in brooklyn...


It't not even good - completely overrated garbage.


99% of pizza I tasted is better than that

jakegibbs
05-29-2012, 01:06 PM
there was lots of anti-Giants comments and even though there is a huge Giants-Yankees overlap in the fan base, there is a big contingent of Jests fans and bandwagon fans just looking to shout "woooo 27 woooo" but couldn't tell you who is in right field.


<font color="red">When did Who become a right fielder? I thought he played first base...</red>

I thought Who was on 3rd base!!

JJC7301
05-29-2012, 01:12 PM
No real fan is going to ditch their team after a first round playoff exit. It makes no sense that in a span of 6 months, the Packers lost the 1 spot.

I think it might be more interesting if the poll asked "What is your second favorite team?" Everyone is going to say the team closest to where they live for favorite team. "America's Team" is the team people root for when their team is having a bad year or is eliminated from the playoffs or isn't in the game. For me it's the Packers, and I suspect the Packers are probably more popular than the Cowboys in this sense.

It made no sense at all that the Pack ever beat out the 'boys for # 1 fan base across the nation to begin with. There is no way that they have a larger fan base than the Steelers either. The Steelers probably have a larger fan base than the Giants, but then again there are so many transplanted Giant fans across the country that it does make sense that the two would be tied.

Nothing against the Pack who I know have a national following, but I just absolutely do not believe that they have a larger fan base than the 'boys, Steelers, and Giants. No way. It'll take a 5-year running set of polls for me to believe that.
Well, I don't know if you'd be right in thinking that. There's actually a series of organizations called the Packer Backers in various communities across the country. I don't think the same can be said of any of the other teams you mentioned.

I'd have to see a 5-year tally on the size of fan bases before I believed that the Pack was up there with the 'boys, Steelers, and Giants.

rebelfan1966
05-29-2012, 01:18 PM
Since I am an American, and it is America's team... I want some of the proceeds from the ticket and tv sales.... : )

byron
05-29-2012, 01:22 PM
best pizza on the planet</P>


http://www.whipperspizza.com/</P>


plus you can wash your car while you wait</P>

Drez
05-29-2012, 01:34 PM
No real fan is going to ditch their team after a first round playoff exit. It makes no sense that in a span of 6 months, the Packers lost the 1 spot.

I think it might be more interesting if the poll asked "What is your second favorite team?" Everyone is going to say the team closest to where they live for favorite team. "America's Team" is the team people root for when their team is having a bad year or is eliminated from the playoffs or isn't in the game. For me it's the Packers, and I suspect the Packers are probably more popular than the Cowboys in this sense.

It made no sense at all that the Pack ever beat out the 'boys for # 1 fan base across the nation to begin with. There is no way that they have a larger fan base than the Steelers either. The Steelers probably have a larger fan base than the Giants, but then again there are so many transplanted Giant fans across the country that it does make sense that the two would be tied.

Nothing against the Pack who I know have a national following, but I just absolutely do not believe that they have a larger fan base than the 'boys, Steelers, and Giants. No way. It'll take a 5-year running set of polls for me to believe that.
Well, I don't know if you'd be right in thinking that. There's actually a series of organizations called the Packer Backers in various communities across the country. I don't think the same can be said of any of the other teams you mentioned.

I'd have to see a 5-year tally on the size of fan bases before I believed that the Pack was up there with the 'boys, Steelers, and Giants.
Why don't you think the Pack is up there? Just because they're a small community?

Dude, just google the term Packers Backers and see how many chapters there are.

G-Man67
05-29-2012, 03:33 PM
ha, nice ... good to be tied with the Steelers</P>


i think one thing people have to consider is that this poll has a lot to do with bandwagon fans and maybe the Cowboys have the most diehard bandwagon fans [:)]</P>


you take a drive thru Green Bay, Wisconsin and i'm sure you will see miles of Packer support</P>

Ntegrase96
05-29-2012, 10:53 PM
Cowboys haven't won anything in 16 years, currently in the longest drought in franchise history for a championship...

Yeah... bandwagon fans everywhere.

The fact that the Cowboys are even close to the top of popularity proves the strength of the franchise's popularity.

lamas
05-30-2012, 10:29 AM
WHAT THE **** DOES AMERICAS TEAM EVEN MEAN?


God, I hate that damn term

I HATE HATE HATE when something is marketed as AMERICA'S FAVORITE _________.

HATE IT.

It's cheap. It's sloppy. It's lazy. It's brainless. It targets your fear of not fitting in.

Not just the Cowboys... McDonalds is America's Favorite restaurant. K-Mart is America's favorite retailer. The Toyota Camry is America's favorite car. Pizza Hut is America's favorite pizza joint. CBS is America's favorite network. Wheel of Fortune is America's favorite game show. All ****.

It speaks of the sheep mentality -- use our product because everybody else does. Not because it's better or has some advantage, but because everybody else does.

You don't want to be different, do you? You don't want to stand out from the mindless crowds, do you? CONFORM. Don't take the chance. Be a mindless zombie and consume what other people consume so that you don't have to worry about drawing attention to yourself.

People who don't know pizza go to pizza hut. People who don't know or care about cars buy Camrys. You get the picture.


If something is America's favorite, I refuse to like it. That should only sell to the 'tards whose only defense is "that's un-American". I'm glad I hold 2 citizenships.

If the Giants were labeled "America's Team," would you jump ship?

SweetZombieJesus
05-30-2012, 12:09 PM
Cowboys haven't won anything in 16 years, currently in the longest drought in franchise history for a championship...

Yeah... bandwagon fans everywhere.

The fact that the Cowboys are even close to the top of popularity proves the strength of the franchise's popularity.


"Bandwagon" is the wrong term. Shallow, superficial, is probably more in the right direction. We get it with the Yankees too. They barely follow the game and can only name 2-3 superstars on the team, and they wake out of their comas when the team is doing well or wins a championship.

In other words, people who don't really know or follow baseball tend to say they're Yankee fans. People who don't really know or follow football tend to say they're Cowboy fans.

That's not to say there aren't true fans in either fan base, there certainly are. They just have to deal with throngs of lightweights.

JsBigBlue
05-30-2012, 12:12 PM
How about this...If you put aside favorites and popularity contests...What if you went on the fact that most american's ancestors came into America thru New York so wouldn't that make the Giants America's team in some way...Last time I checked Dallas and Green Bay both are teams without Red White and Blue in the uniforms, So in my eyes the Giants will always be America's team and I don't care what any crappy Poll has to say.

FBomb
05-30-2012, 04:56 PM
Cowboys haven't won anything in 16 years, currently in the longest drought in franchise history for a championship...

Yeah... bandwagon fans everywhere.

The fact that the Cowboys are even close to the top of popularity proves the strength of the franchise's popularity.
</P>


I like my answer better! [:)]</P>

FBomb
05-30-2012, 05:03 PM
WHAT THE **** DOES AMERICAS TEAM EVEN MEAN? God, I hate that damn term

LOL! I already got in trouble for taking it too seriously... so I am staying out of this one.... but take my advise, and just let it be.

It's a gigantic can of worms!

:)
</P>


No....you "got in trouble" because you tried to assert that this was something more than it actually is while spouting lines from the libertarian handbook.</P>


Again...it's nothing more than a ratio of Americans and what football team they like. To insist it's anything more is ridiculous. </P>