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Tuckit91
05-30-2012, 06:28 PM
Victor Cruz - WR - Giants
Giants OC Kevin Gilbride insists third-year WR Victor Cruz "hasn't missed a beat" at OTAs, after his breakout 2011 season.
Gilbride, who characterized Cruz's improvement since 2011 training camp as "amazing," called him a "special" slot receiver who's now getting "the chance to be playing some outside" in offseason practices. Long term, Cruz may actually prove a better outside receiver than slot receiver, though he'll continue to be the Giants' primary slot guy. He's a top-15 fantasy wideout for 2012.

gmen0820
06-03-2012, 12:28 AM
There is nothing more valuable at the skill position than having a WR who can beat man coverage at the isolated X receiver spot, nothing. It can be so critical to the success of an offense.

If Cruz can't become that, then I'm still happy we have a savvy slot receiver.

Drez
06-03-2012, 12:40 AM
There is nothing more valuable at the skill position than having a WR who can beat man coverage at the isolated X receiver spot, nothing. It can be so critical to the success of an offense.

If Cruz can't become that, then I'm still happy we have a savvy slot receiver.
Agreed.

Though, I think due to Cruz' success at the slot this past season, people tend to forget that it was the first time he played there really. Throughout college he was an outside guy, though I don't know if he played the X or Z.

gmen0820
06-03-2012, 12:47 AM
There is nothing more valuable at the skill position than having a WR who can beat man coverage at the isolated X receiver spot, nothing. It can be so critical to the success of an offense.

If Cruz can't become that, then I'm still happy we have a savvy slot receiver.
Agreed.

Though, I think due to Cruz' success at the slot this past season, people tend to forget that it was the first time he played there really. Throughout college he was an outside guy, though I don't know if he played the X or Z.
I can't say I saw much of Cruz in college, but I'd assume X -- just because he was probably the best receiver on the team.

His size/physicaltiy wouldn't necessarily matter in college (which otherwise would hinder his ability to be the X), because it is very rare that corners press, or press well in college. I like Cruz at the line of scrimmage, very rarely will people pick up, or even notice, how much Cruz's routes are won right at the snap. He is an absolute terror because of how well he disguises his routes and 'get-offs' at the line of scrimmage. I've seen a corner lose right at the snap because of erroneous hip turns.

Drez
06-03-2012, 12:54 AM
There is nothing more valuable at the skill position than having a WR who can beat man coverage at the isolated X receiver spot, nothing. It can be so critical to the success of an offense.

If Cruz can't become that, then I'm still happy we have a savvy slot receiver.
Agreed.

Though, I think due to Cruz' success at the slot this past season, people tend to forget that it was the first time he played there really. Throughout college he was an outside guy, though I don't know if he played the X or Z.
I can't say I saw much of Cruz in college, but I'd assume X -- just because he was probably the best receiver on the team.

His size/physicaltiy wouldn't necessarily matter in college (which otherwise would hinder his ability to be the X), because it is very rare that corners press, or press well in college. I like Cruz at the line of scrimmage, very rarely will people pick up, or even notice, how much Cruz's routes are won right at the snap. He is an absolute terror because of how well he disguises his routes and 'get-offs' at the line of scrimmage. I've seen a corner lose right at the snap because of erroneous hip turns.
I've seen that in replays, though I generally miss the little things like that live. I think I might invest in Rewind so I can have access to all the games whenever I want so I can go back and appreciate those things.

gmen0820
06-03-2012, 01:04 AM
There is nothing more valuable at the skill position than having a WR who can beat man coverage at the isolated X receiver spot, nothing. It can be so critical to the success of an offense.

If Cruz can't become that, then I'm still happy we have a savvy slot receiver.
Agreed.

Though, I think due to Cruz' success at the slot this past season, people tend to forget that it was the first time he played there really. Throughout college he was an outside guy, though I don't know if he played the X or Z.
I can't say I saw much of Cruz in college, but I'd assume X -- just because he was probably the best receiver on the team.

His size/physicaltiy wouldn't necessarily matter in college (which otherwise would hinder his ability to be the X), because it is very rare that corners press, or press well in college. I like Cruz at the line of scrimmage, very rarely will people pick up, or even notice, how much Cruz's routes are won right at the snap. He is an absolute terror because of how well he disguises his routes and 'get-offs' at the line of scrimmage. I've seen a corner lose right at the snap because of erroneous hip turns.
I've seen that in replays, though I generally miss the little things like that live. I think I might invest in Rewind so I can have access to all the games whenever I want so I can go back and appreciate those things.
Yeah I just renewed my Rewind subscription. It's really good, it's great for this boring offseason where nothing worthwhile is being discussed on the message board.

I just found this unanswered thread, figured it's time to try to stir up some X's and O's talk, haha. But yeah, I'd definitely get the Rewind subscription.

But definitely, Cruz appears to be something very special, really makes me wonder why he wasn't more heavily scouted, or why he just "turned it on" so to speak.

I'd love to see him try out the X spot in Nicks' absence, if nothing more just to see how he responds to man-free concepts as compared to Triangle/Bracket concepts, because I'm sure you remember very well that other than our 21 or 12 personnel, we almost never isolated Cruz outside of the numbers, we almost always had him to the closed side of the formation.

NY_Eli
06-03-2012, 01:24 AM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409E

Neverend
06-03-2012, 01:39 AM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409E

Here is a better video of cruz against rodgers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpbPx3xIH0

His lateral quickness is special, on par with wes welker.

I agree that cruz would make a great X. I think the most underrated aspect of his game are his jump ball skills. Very rarely do we get to see cruz tested in that aspect from the slot but he would be a terror in that fashion on the outside

Flip Empty
06-03-2012, 01:40 AM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.
Yeah exactly. His talent + the Giants' offensive scheme should mean he continues to be a threat.

It's incredible watching back his plays - he just has so many ways of beating people.

gmen0820
06-03-2012, 02:01 AM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409E

Here is a better video of cruz against rodgers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpbPx3xIH0

His lateral quickness is special, on par with wes welker.

I agree that cruz would make a great X. I think the most underrated aspect of his game are his jump ball skills. Very rarely do we get to see cruz tested in that aspect from the slot but he would be a terror in that fashion on the outsideWell said Neverend.

I think Cruz can be great at either the X or Z spot which I believe is unanimously more important than the slot. While it is a luxury to have a dominant slot guy, it is essential to have an outside guy who can win one on one matchups vs man cvg.

Cruz has all the tools. Incredible get off (I encourage everyone to rewatch the games last year and just look how well he gets off the L.O.S and can beat a DB from the start), the ball skills, and the hands.

And the biggest and most drastic difference on why Cruz can be special on the outside like he is on the inside, is he has the speed and savvyness to separate downfield, unlike say Steve Smith. Smith was an excellent technician, his routes were always crisp which made his time speed worse than his actual game speed (which for all intensive purposes was very respectable), but his lack of raw talent was his major undoing 20+ yards downfield.

gmen0820
06-03-2012, 06:49 PM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409ETo be fair, a lot of the credit in the option system goes to Eli who is one of the best preparation QBs in the league. Half the battle at the WR position is just having the mental capacity to keep up with Eli. Cruz has that and the talent, so I'm really excited to see how his future plays out (hopefully healthy).

ShakeNBake
06-03-2012, 07:12 PM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409E

Here is a better video of cruz against rodgers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpbPx3xIH0

His lateral quickness is special, on par with wes welker.

I agree that cruz would make a great X. I think the most underrated aspect of his game are his jump ball skills. Very rarely do we get to see cruz tested in that aspect from the slot but he would be a terror in that fashion on the outsideWell said Neverend.

I think Cruz can be great at either the X or Z spot which I believe is unanimously more important than the slot. While it is a luxury to have a dominant slot guy, it is essential to have an outside guy who can win one on one matchups vs man cvg.

Cruz has all the tools. Incredible get off (I encourage everyone to rewatch the games last year and just look how well he gets off the L.O.S and can beat a DB from the start), the ball skills, and the hands.

And the biggest and most drastic difference on why Cruz can be special on the outside like he is on the inside, is he has the speed and savvyness to separate downfield, unlike say Steve Smith. Smith was an excellent technician, his routes were always crisp which made his time speed worse than his actual game speed (which for all intensive purposes was very respectable), but his lack of raw talent was his major undoing 20+ yards downfield.

Cruz has the tools to play inside or out, and we will see him in both roles this season. Two man sets he will be outside(except in twins) but I think that when we have three WRs or more out there he should be the slot guy. My reasoning is that Cruz has proven he can play in the slot and has the ability to run any route out of the slot, which is rare to find in a slot receiver. This really opens up our offense because you can run virtually every route out of the slot, which keeps the d guessing while making things easier on Eli and our other receivers.

miked1958
06-03-2012, 07:14 PM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409ETo be fair, a lot of the credit in the option system goes to Eli who is one of the best preparation QBs in the league. Half the battle at the WR position is just having the mental capacity to keep up with Eli. Cruz has that and the talent, so I'm really excited to see how his future plays out (hopefully healthy).Yes healthy

gmen0820
06-03-2012, 07:18 PM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409E

Here is a better video of cruz against rodgers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpbPx3xIH0

His lateral quickness is special, on par with wes welker.

I agree that cruz would make a great X. I think the most underrated aspect of his game are his jump ball skills. Very rarely do we get to see cruz tested in that aspect from the slot but he would be a terror in that fashion on the outsideWell said Neverend.

I think Cruz can be great at either the X or Z spot which I believe is unanimously more important than the slot. While it is a luxury to have a dominant slot guy, it is essential to have an outside guy who can win one on one matchups vs man cvg.

Cruz has all the tools. Incredible get off (I encourage everyone to rewatch the games last year and just look how well he gets off the L.O.S and can beat a DB from the start), the ball skills, and the hands.

And the biggest and most drastic difference on why Cruz can be special on the outside like he is on the inside, is he has the speed and savvyness to separate downfield, unlike say Steve Smith. Smith was an excellent technician, his routes were always crisp which made his time speed worse than his actual game speed (which for all intensive purposes was very respectable), but his lack of raw talent was his major undoing 20+ yards downfield.

Cruz has the tools to play inside or out, and we will see him in both roles this season. Two man sets he will be outside(except in twins) but I think that when we have three WRs or more out there he should be the slot guy. My reasoning is that Cruz has proven he can play in the slot and has the ability to run any route out of the slot, which is rare to find in a slot receiver. This really opens up our offense because you can run virtually every route out of the slot, which keeps the d guessing while making things easier on Eli and our other receivers.
So basically, you're predicting the same role as his 2011 campaign? Fair enough assumption.

ShakeNBake
06-03-2012, 07:27 PM
He might not put up as good numbers as last year but that's only because defenses will probably pay more attention to him.

But I just think back to the NFC championship game, when Carlos Rogers said 'I can't cover this guy'. No way he somehow loses that elusive ability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409E

Here is a better video of cruz against rodgers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTpbPx3xIH0

His lateral quickness is special, on par with wes welker.

I agree that cruz would make a great X. I think the most underrated aspect of his game are his jump ball skills. Very rarely do we get to see cruz tested in that aspect from the slot but he would be a terror in that fashion on the outsideWell said Neverend.

I think Cruz can be great at either the X or Z spot which I believe is unanimously more important than the slot. While it is a luxury to have a dominant slot guy, it is essential to have an outside guy who can win one on one matchups vs man cvg.

Cruz has all the tools. Incredible get off (I encourage everyone to rewatch the games last year and just look how well he gets off the L.O.S and can beat a DB from the start), the ball skills, and the hands.

And the biggest and most drastic difference on why Cruz can be special on the outside like he is on the inside, is he has the speed and savvyness to separate downfield, unlike say Steve Smith. Smith was an excellent technician, his routes were always crisp which made his time speed worse than his actual game speed (which for all intensive purposes was very respectable), but his lack of raw talent was his major undoing 20+ yards downfield.

Cruz has the tools to play inside or out, and we will see him in both roles this season. Two man sets he will be outside(except in twins) but I think that when we have three WRs or more out there he should be the slot guy. My reasoning is that Cruz has proven he can play in the slot and has the ability to run any route out of the slot, which is rare to find in a slot receiver. This really opens up our offense because you can run virtually every route out of the slot, which keeps the d guessing while making things easier on Eli and our other receivers.
So basically, you're predicting the same role as his 2011 campaign? Fair enough assumption.

For the most part yes. I think that he will be playing more X and Z because Manningham is now gone, but I prefer him in the slot if we run that set as opposed to split wide.