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View Full Version : People Still Think Eli Is Overrated...



Cool Papa B.
06-07-2012, 07:21 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's & WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense & O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?

StraightXrs
06-07-2012, 07:46 AM
you know what we think....tell your sister to marry someone else....

FBomb
06-07-2012, 08:00 AM
Show him this............</P>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHzB1JGqXFveu4ZAg6Z3fbD9VmFR_h8 sFHfG92s8F4wrMZwjerMg</P>


and, for the record.....Eagles fans are NOT people.</P>

Cool Papa B.
06-07-2012, 08:05 AM
Show him this............</P>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHzB1JGqXFveu4ZAg6Z3fbD9VmFR_h8 sFHfG92s8F4wrMZwjerMg</P>


and, for the record.....Eagles fans are NOT people.</P>

LOL LOL LOL.....

My brother-in-law is a good guy. He was born and raised in Philly and has been an Eagles fan his whole life. He does tell me though that growing up liked (from a distance) the 1986 Giants.

domfin
06-07-2012, 08:12 AM
Tell him this: "There is only one team in the NFC East that never won a Super Bowl!" All the others have won multiple Super Bowls.

I live in Allentwon PA area, now that the Phillys stink, all I am goin go to here about is how great the Eagles are. How they had another great draft and Andy Reid is the best coach . Again, they will be picked the best team in the NFC East.

Toadofsteel
06-07-2012, 09:09 AM
If anyone makes the argument that Eli is overrated or other such nonsense, going on about how Eli gets carried by his O-line and run game (worst in the NFL in 2011), or the defense (which has had some horrendous games in the past 2 seasons, although plenty of awesome ones as well), you can tell the Dallas/DC/Filthy fan that they have effectively conceded the debate, as they have just admitted that the GIANTS are a superior team...

THE_New_York_Giants
06-07-2012, 09:20 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's &amp; WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense &amp; O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?

He lost his credibility as a sports fan and human being at "Eagles fan". I'm sorry your sister had to bring an Eagles fan into the family. Make sure you preach the Gospel of the Giants to your nieces and nephews.

TuckYou
06-07-2012, 09:22 AM
Eh, Patriot fans feel Peyton Manning is overrated, Jets fans feel Brady is overrated, Bears fans feel Rodgers is overrated. But it really surprises me that the entire NFL still feels Eli is overrated. They still dont have him cracking the top 30? </P>


Well I guess he is kinda overrated.... I mean, the guy didnt even win his 3rd Championship yet. </P>


I guess its a stat thing and a rah rah thing. Eli is neither, but a great QB, he is. One of, if not the most, clutch QB in the game right now. </P>

FBomb
06-07-2012, 09:23 AM
Show him this............</P>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHzB1JGqXFveu4ZAg6Z3fbD9VmFR_h8 sFHfG92s8F4wrMZwjerMg</P>


and, for the record.....Eagles fans are NOT people.</P>

LOL LOL LOL.....

My brother-in-law is a good guy. He was born and raised in Philly and has been an Eagles fan his whole life. He does tell me though that growing up liked (from a distance) the 1986 Giants.

4 words that should never be in the same sentence...."Eagles fan" and "good guy".

I have friends that are Cowboys and Redskins fans...but no Eagles fans. They are so bitter!!!

nygsb42champs
06-07-2012, 09:23 AM
He is just a Eagle fan who can not face facts.

burier
06-07-2012, 09:27 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's & WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense & O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?

I'd suggest you stop humoring morons with conversation. It kills brain cells.

Roosevelt
06-07-2012, 09:28 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's &amp; WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense &amp; O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?


I find that most people I talk to (casual fans) never thought highly of Eli, until last season that is. I don't think I know anyone who thought he was a legitimately good QB. Most think he gets lucky. I can only guess that it's because of they way he looks and he throws.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-07-2012, 09:29 AM
Show him this............</p>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHzB1JGqXFveu4ZAg6Z3fbD9VmFR_h8 sFHfG92s8F4wrMZwjerMg</p>


and, for the record.....Eagles fans are NOT people.</p>

LOL LOL LOL.....

My brother-in-law is a good guy. He was born and raised in Philly and has been an Eagles fan his whole life. He does tell me though that growing up liked (from a distance) the 1986 Giants.

4 words that should never be in the same sentence...."Eagles fan" and "good guy".

I have friends that are Cowboys and Redskins fans...but no Eagles fans. They are so bitter!!!

They can only be used in the following sentences: "Eagles fans are not good guys" or "That guy is an Eagles fan which means he is not a good guy". Or if you are talking to your kids "That guy over there, son, is an Eagles fan and you need to stay away from him because he is not a good guy."

FBomb
06-07-2012, 09:31 AM
Show him this............</p>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHzB1JGqXFveu4ZAg6Z3fbD9VmFR_h8 sFHfG92s8F4wrMZwjerMg</p>


and, for the record.....Eagles fans are NOT people.</p>

LOL LOL LOL.....

My brother-in-law is a good guy. He was born and raised in Philly and has been an Eagles fan his whole life. He does tell me though that growing up liked (from a distance) the 1986 Giants.


4 words that should never be in the same sentence...."Eagles fan" and "good guy".

I have friends that are Cowboys and Redskins fans...but no Eagles fans. They are so bitter!!!

They can only be used in the following sentences: "Eagles fans are not good guys" or "That guy is an Eagles fan which means he is not a good guy".* Or if you are talking to your kids "That guy over there, son, is an Eagles fan and you need to stay away from him because he is not a good guy."


Touché

TuckYou
06-07-2012, 09:49 AM
Show him this............</P>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHzB1JGqXFveu4ZAg6Z3fbD9VmFR_h8 sFHfG92s8F4wrMZwjerMg</P>


and, for the record.....Eagles fans are NOT people.</P>


LOL LOL LOL..... My brother-in-law is a good guy. He was born and raised in Philly and has been an Eagles fan his whole life. He does tell me though that growing up liked (from a distance) the 1986 Giants. 4 words that should never be in the same sentence...."Eagles fan" and "good guy". I have friends that are Cowboys and Redskins fans...but no Eagles fans. They are so bitter!!!

They can only be used in the following sentences: "Eagles fans are not good guys" or "That guy is an Eagles fan which means he is not a good guy". Or if you are talking to your kids "That guy over there, son, is an Eagles fan and you need to stay away from him because he is not a good guy."
</P>


"Be a good guy and get that Eagles fan a tissue."</P>

Rudyy
06-07-2012, 09:53 AM
The funniest comment is the "he throws up a lot of prayers". Meanwhile, Brady, Brees, or Rodgers can throw up balls and they are considered some of the best plays. Go figure.

SweetZombieJesus
06-07-2012, 10:03 AM
Egghole fans live in a permanent state of denial.

You have to experience the Philly media for yourself. It's an echo chamber of how great the Eagles are, how they are the most talented football team to ever take the field, how this is the year they will win the Super Bowl. That city revolves around the Eagles (sports-wise) and nobody there is capable of the slightest objectivity. It's that way every frigging year. When TO did situps in his driveway it was covered like the JFK assassination.

Then of course when the Eagles fail they want to kill them all and their families and dogs too.

Their template on the Giants is that we suck, Eli sucks, is incredibly lucky, it's all just blind luck. They formed their template on Eli in 2004 and cemented it over the next two years, I think it was set in concrete when the Eagles beat the Giants at home in the 2006 playoffs. From that point on they only see what reinforces their template and are completely blind to Eli's maturation, so they have to dismiss it as "luck".

I used to have a boss when I worked in Princeton who was a big Eagle fan and this was when they were going to all those NFC championship games and we were imploding (2002 loss to 49ers and the aftermath, implosion of Fassel and Coughlin/Eli's first year). Told me we will never make it to a Super Bowl with Eli (which I later found out was a parroted line out of WIP/Philly sports media), to which I said he doesn't have to be Joe Montana I just want improvement every year.

After the first Super Bowl he was mortified, but still dismissed it as luck.

I just saw him again, and even he had to admit Eli was money. But still insists XLII was luck.

Eli had 7 comeback wins this year (2 in the 2 biggest games of the year). How is that overrated? And our o-line was responsible? LOL our o-line was garbage last year. Make him watch the pounding Eli took in the NFC CG behind that o-line. Vick would have broken every bone in his body behind that line.

Just remember, Eagle fans are mostly in a stupor of self denial, it takes a lot to snap them out of it.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-07-2012, 10:06 AM
Show him this............</p>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHzB1JGqXFveu4ZAg6Z3fbD9VmFR_h8 sFHfG92s8F4wrMZwjerMg</p>


and, for the record.....Eagles fans are NOT people.</p>


LOL LOL LOL..... My brother-in-law is a good guy. He was born and raised in Philly and has been an Eagles fan his whole life. He does tell me though that growing up liked (from a distance) the 1986 Giants. 4 words that should never be in the same sentence...."Eagles fan" and "good guy". I have friends that are Cowboys and Redskins fans...but no Eagles fans. They are so bitter!!!

They can only be used in the following sentences: "Eagles fans are not good guys" or "That guy is an Eagles fan which means he is not a good guy". Or if you are talking to your kids "That guy over there, son, is an Eagles fan and you need to stay away from him because he is not a good guy."
</p>


"Be a good guy and get that Eagles fan a tissue."</p>
(to the girlfriend)
"Honey, We are the good guys and I think you need to go give that Eagles fan dude over there a tampon."

Cool Papa B.
06-07-2012, 11:56 AM
LOL.....I love some of the responses here. Too funny!

when I told how the O Line almost got Eli killed in the NFCCG, and all the bad stats the O Line had there was a silence.

BeatYale
06-07-2012, 01:16 PM
Well people are going to overlook situational stats. They probably just look at the normal stat lines as part of the criteria for the top 100 list.

Us fans pick and choose stuff to help our case to prove Eli is better than whoever he is being compared to. I understand that, fans are suppose to stick up for their team and players in whatever way they can.

Brees: 46 TD - 14 INT
Rodgers: 45 TD - 6 INT
Stafford: 41 TD - 16 INT
Brady: 39 TD - 12 INT
Romo: 30 TD - 10 INT
Manning: 29 TD - 16 INT

This is a stat line that Eli struggles with every season compared to the QB's that most people consider to do be elite (minus Romo, I threw him in there because he played well this year). It's something that I've learned to avoid bringing up in discussions with rival fans because it works against Eli. Of course I'll bring up the 15 fourth quarter TD's though because it's something he lead the league in, and even set an NFL record for.

However, if Eli had a better TD-INT ratio I'd be willingly throwing it in other fans faces when comparing Eli to their QB. I think it's the main culprit for why he hasn't been taken seriously over the years in discussions about him being a top QB. Touchdowns are good. Turnovers are bad. You want to offset the two as much as possible.

Rat_bastich
06-07-2012, 04:19 PM
I would hope though that most opposing players would see his intangibles in action.

For fans and haters who can't get into the huddle they won't recognize the intangibles, but when you are on a football field and you are getting your tail whooped in the 4th or during a game(speaking as if an opponent to Eli)you just know that guy kicked your tail. Sometimes statistically it will look like maybe he shouldn't have.

I say let them think Eli is overrated, you saw what happened in 2011 and the beginning of 2012 when they debated his EliTe status.

Besides, the Eagles remind me alot of the Jets.
Green
Coach that likes to eat.
Hyped before the season every year.
The only difference is that Reid doesn't talk alot of trash...only his players do. I wonder what Vince Young thinks about that Dream Team comparison on his other team now?

Meanhothead
06-07-2012, 04:44 PM
My brother is law is a Cowboys Fan . . .

He has spent years trying to convince how average Eli is . . .

After the Superbowl, I think it was easter weekend.

His wife called him out "Oh you going to try to convince him that Eli Manning sucks?"

I just smiled. Said nothing and drank my beer.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-07-2012, 04:54 PM
My brother is law is a Cowboys Fan . . .

He has spent years trying to convince how average Eli is . . .

After the Superbowl, I think it was easter weekend.

His wife called him out "Oh you going to try to convince him that Eli Manning sucks?"

I just smiled. Said nothing and drank my beer.

Your sister best be raising the kids as Giants fans.

n420p69
06-07-2012, 05:50 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.

Bread
06-07-2012, 06:18 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.

Gimaniac
06-07-2012, 06:30 PM
"Overrated" is overrated.

Drez
06-07-2012, 06:31 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.

Bread
06-07-2012, 07:05 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.


I still dislike him for that San Diego stunt but he is a badass and I love his aura, it hurts to say that though.

However, your rings arguement is invalid. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson all have more rings than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.

His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.

Breezely
06-07-2012, 07:07 PM
Show him this............</P>


https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHzB1JGqXFveu4ZAg6Z3fbD9VmFR_h8 sFHfG92s8F4wrMZwjerMg</P>


and, for the record.....Eagles fans are NOT people.</P>

LOL LOL LOL.....

My brother-in-law is a good guy. He was born and raised in Philly and has been an Eagles fan his whole life. He does tell me though that growing up liked (from a distance) the 1986 Giants.

I know it is probably asking too much but you should have put an eagle's insignia on the case.

Drez
06-07-2012, 07:08 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.


I still dislike him for that San Diego stunt but he is a badass and I love his aura, it hurts to say that though.

However, your rings arguement is invalid. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson all have more rings than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.

His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.
Your argument is invalid. The QB's you mention only won 1 SB apiece, not 2 and generally speaking all 4 of them are exceptions to the rule.

The fact that you think that Peyton had to work with scrubs for years shows that you are ignorant about football.

Breezely
06-07-2012, 07:14 PM
I think the fact that a couple of years ago the Giants' were accused of not having any receivers and now people are saying the receivers make Eli look good. . . . . .remember, many are starting to toss around the phrase "MOST CLUTCH" when mentioning Eli.

Bread
06-07-2012, 07:25 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.


I still dislike him for that San Diego stunt but he is a badass and I love his aura, it hurts to say that though.

However, your rings arguement is invalid. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson all have more rings than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.

His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.
Your argument is invalid. The QB's you mention only won 1 SB apiece, not 2 and generally speaking all 4 of them are exceptions to the rule.

The fact that you think that Peyton had to work with scrubs for years shows that you are ignorant about football.


He has carried that team. He gets injured and the Colts were the worst team in football. A few years ago the Colts took him out of a tied game against the Jets and then the Colts just fell apart. Edgerrin James leaves Indy and bombs in Arizona and the UFL. Marvin Harrison leaves and finds no interest in free agency and eventually runs into legal problems. Those were the 2nd and 3rd most important players in the Colts offense for years. In the tough AFC as well.

Breezely
06-07-2012, 07:28 PM
Speaking of QB's getting hurt. . . . .do Eli still have his streak going, on consecutive starts for a QB??????

Drez
06-07-2012, 07:32 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.


I still dislike him for that San Diego stunt but he is a badass and I love his aura, it hurts to say that though.

However, your rings arguement is invalid. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson all have more rings than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.

His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.
Your argument is invalid. The QB's you mention only won 1 SB apiece, not 2 and generally speaking all 4 of them are exceptions to the rule.

The fact that you think that Peyton had to work with scrubs for years shows that you are ignorant about football.


He has carried that team. He gets injured and the Colts were the worst team in football. A few years ago the Colts took him out of a tied game against the Jets and then the Colts just fell apart. Edgerrin James leaves Indy and bombs in Arizona and the UFL. Marvin Harrison leaves and finds no interest in free agency and eventually runs into legal problems. Those were the 2nd and 3rd most important players in the Colts offense for years. In the tough AFC as well.
You really have no clue. I'd spell it out for you, but I doubt you'd understand it anyway.

Bread
06-07-2012, 07:35 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.


I still dislike him for that San Diego stunt but he is a badass and I love his aura, it hurts to say that though.

However, your rings arguement is invalid. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson all have more rings than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.

His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.
Your argument is invalid. The QB's you mention only won 1 SB apiece, not 2 and generally speaking all 4 of them are exceptions to the rule.

The fact that you think that Peyton had to work with scrubs for years shows that you are ignorant about football.


He has carried that team. He gets injured and the Colts were the worst team in football. A few years ago the Colts took him out of a tied game against the Jets and then the Colts just fell apart. Edgerrin James leaves Indy and bombs in Arizona and the UFL. Marvin Harrison leaves and finds no interest in free agency and eventually runs into legal problems. Those were the 2nd and 3rd most important players in the Colts offense for years. In the tough AFC as well.
You really have no clue. I'd spell it out for you, but I doubt you'd understand it anyway.


Please, enlighten me.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-07-2012, 07:36 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.


I still dislike him for that San Diego stunt but he is a badass and I love his aura, it hurts to say that though.

However, your rings arguement is invalid. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson all have more rings than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.

His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.
Your argument is invalid. The QB's you mention only won 1 SB apiece, not 2 and generally speaking all 4 of them are exceptions to the rule.

The fact that you think that Peyton had to work with scrubs for years shows that you are ignorant about football.


He has carried that team. He gets injured and the Colts were the worst team in football. A few years ago the Colts took him out of a tied game against the Jets and then the Colts just fell apart. Edgerrin James leaves Indy and bombs in Arizona and the UFL. Marvin Harrison leaves and finds no interest in free agency and eventually runs into legal problems. Those were the 2nd and 3rd most important players in the Colts offense for years. In the tough AFC as well.
You really have no clue. I'd spell it out for you, but I doubt you'd understand it anyway.


If Eli got hurt (*knock on wood*), the Giants would suck offensively.

Breezely
06-07-2012, 07:39 PM
A Giants vs. Broncos game would be off the meter. A Giants vs. Broncos Superbowl would be bananas. Would love to see it but what are the odds of that happening? Matter of fact, what are the odds of siblings being SUPERBOWL champion and Superbowl MVP????

Drez
06-07-2012, 07:46 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.


I still dislike him for that San Diego stunt but he is a badass and I love his aura, it hurts to say that though.

However, your rings arguement is invalid. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson all have more rings than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.

His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.
Your argument is invalid. The QB's you mention only won 1 SB apiece, not 2 and generally speaking all 4 of them are exceptions to the rule.

The fact that you think that Peyton had to work with scrubs for years shows that you are ignorant about football.


He has carried that team. He gets injured and the Colts were the worst team in football. A few years ago the Colts took him out of a tied game against the Jets and then the Colts just fell apart. Edgerrin James leaves Indy and bombs in Arizona and the UFL. Marvin Harrison leaves and finds no interest in free agency and eventually runs into legal problems. Those were the 2nd and 3rd most important players in the Colts offense for years. In the tough AFC as well.
You really have no clue. I'd spell it out for you, but I doubt you'd understand it anyway.

Screw it. I'm bored and you're dumb, so here we go...

Edge: Had 2 1k seasons in AZ before his decline. Hardly stinking it up. His decline was right at the age RBs decline. 30. So, there's that argument gone.

Are you really saying that because Harrison didn't get any attention in the FA market as a 37 year old that he wasn't a good receiver? Really? What does his legal problems have to do with his ability as a football player? I'm sure you're not overlooking the fact that you have a dog killer as a QB that spent a couple years in federal prison.

Of course Peyton gets hurt and they're the worst team in football. There was no other team that was built so completely around one player than the Colts were, and as had been being discussed since the Colts SB loss that they were a team in great decline. I really don't see you're point.

And if you take Eli off the Giants last year we're a 2-4 win team, too. Which would put the W/L differential between the '10 and '11 seasons for both teams at about the same.

Yeah, but Peyton didn't have Dungy as a coach, Wayne and Harrison as his receivers, Freeny and Mathis on his DL, a defense with Sanders, or a great OL when he won the SB.

You are dumb by even Philly standards.

Drez
06-07-2012, 07:48 PM
I could really give a **** less what "people" have to say about our QB. He is the best QB in history and better then every single QB in this division. If these idiots wanna continue to say he is overrated or lucky, let them. 2 SB rings and 2 SB MVP say otherwise. 2 SB winning late 4th quarter drives and he is still overrated? I just laugh at them. Eli is better then your QB, deal with it.


If you're saying Eli is better than the Eagles QB then I would agree with you but if you're saying that he's the best in the league then I think Eli's older brother would like a word with you.
Eli will just have to flash the fist that has more rings on it to end that talk.

And either way, if there's only 3 or so fan bases where it's even a discussion, then Eli is sitting with some pretty good company.


I still dislike him for that San Diego stunt but he is a badass and I love his aura, it hurts to say that though.

However, your rings arguement is invalid. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson all have more rings than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts.

His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.
Your argument is invalid. The QB's you mention only won 1 SB apiece, not 2 and generally speaking all 4 of them are exceptions to the rule.

The fact that you think that Peyton had to work with scrubs for years shows that you are ignorant about football.


He has carried that team. He gets injured and the Colts were the worst team in football. A few years ago the Colts took him out of a tied game against the Jets and then the Colts just fell apart. Edgerrin James leaves Indy and bombs in Arizona and the UFL. Marvin Harrison leaves and finds no interest in free agency and eventually runs into legal problems. Those were the 2nd and 3rd most important players in the Colts offense for years. In the tough AFC as well.
You really have no clue. I'd spell it out for you, but I doubt you'd understand it anyway.


If Eli got hurt (*knock on wood*), the Giants would suck offensively.

If Eli got hurt we would have won 2 to 4 games last season. I have some faith in Carr to put together a few games if Eli gets hurt, but I don't think he'd be terribly successful long term. Especially not with our **** *** line, lol.

SweetZombieJesus
06-07-2012, 08:05 PM
His brother has had to work with scrubs for years while Eli got Plax, Cruz, Coughlin and the best D-Line in football.

Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, those are scrubs??? Come on Bread.

And for the record Eli had completely different receiving corps in both Super Bowls including guys who were unaccomplished in each (Steve Smith and Kevin Boss in XLII, Victor Cruz and Jake Ballard in XLVI). This suggests Eli gets it done with whatever he's given and/or that he makes his targets better through his play and mentorship.

SweetZombieJesus
06-07-2012, 08:11 PM
He has carried that team. He gets injured and the Colts were the worst team in football. A few years ago the Colts took him out of a tied game against the Jets and then the Colts just fell apart. Edgerrin James leaves Indy and bombs in Arizona and the UFL. Marvin Harrison leaves and finds no interest in free agency and eventually runs into legal problems. Those were the 2nd and 3rd most important players in the Colts offense for years. In the tough AFC as well.

So basically you're saying Petyon made his receivers look better than they were.

But in Eli's case the receivers make him look better than he is.

SweetZombieJesus
06-07-2012, 08:11 PM
Speaking of QB's getting hurt. . . . .do Eli still have his streak going, on consecutive starts for a QB??????

Yes he still hasn't missed a career regular season start and is the league's active start leader.

yoeddy
06-07-2012, 08:14 PM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's &amp; WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense &amp; O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?

I think you should just say to him "yeah...I guess you're right..."... :-)

TheBookOfEli
06-07-2012, 08:50 PM
Does your friend know that we were ranked dead last in rushing?

Does he know that Eli won 2 superbowls with 2 totally different receiving corps?

WTF is wrong with people these days. Does anyone take the time to do some research anymore?

Drez
06-07-2012, 09:01 PM
Does anyone take the time to do some research anymore?

Did they ever? Especially, Philly fans?

Cool Papa B.
06-08-2012, 08:13 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's & WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense & O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?

I think you should just say to him "yeah...I guess you're right..."... :-)


That period of silence from him when I mention our O Line & the NFCCG took care of that. I'll see him again on Thanksgiving with my Giants Super Bowl 46 T-Shirt on.

FBomb
06-08-2012, 08:25 AM
Does anyone take the time to do some research anymore?

Did they ever? Especially, Philly fans?
</P>


Well, you have to take in account that "doing research" is something that is taught. To be taught you must first possess the ability to learn. We all know that is a rare phenomenon in the Philly public school system.</P>

GMENAGAIN
06-08-2012, 09:16 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's &amp; WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful. And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games. When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense &amp; O Line had more to do with it than Eli. Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?\</P>


I don't quite undestand the fascination with what everyone else thinks about Eli. If we like him as our QB, who gives a **** what these other fans think?</P>


Yeah, Eli had a real arsenal at his disposalgoing into last season . . . . a UDFA WR, a UDFA TE, a wide receiver who was notorious for not being on the same page as his QB, a running back who can't stay healthy, and a running back who was sadly nearing the end of his productivity. Any chance that it was Eli who made these guys better, and not vice versa?</P>


</P>

jasonbourne
06-08-2012, 09:49 AM
The guy is a tool/hater. Average qb's don't have two Super Bowl rings. He is just trying to get under your skin and it's working lol.... Just laugh at him next time he try's to debate you

nygfanmaybe
06-08-2012, 10:05 AM
please stop talking about "if Eli got hurt"...

pino
06-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Sounds like your brother in law doesn't understand football.

If the Eagles had Eli, they probably would win a Super Bowl, so I'm glad the Eagles are happy with Vick.

G-Man67
06-08-2012, 12:59 PM
well the Eagles have had our number, so maybe they don't quite get it yet ... but it's probably just jealousy

JJC7301
06-08-2012, 10:43 PM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's & WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense & O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?
I'm sure the Eagles WR's and RB's would love to have Eli as their QB.

GmenFan1980
06-09-2012, 01:38 AM
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb146/__Pixiex/Animated%20Gifs/*****esbecrazy.gif

nybeatmaker
06-09-2012, 03:58 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's &amp; WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense &amp; O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?



Yall probably won't believe this but, my sisters fiance is a Seahawks fan, and he talks crap about the Giants....LMFAO

Rat_bastich
06-09-2012, 05:28 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's & WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense & O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?



Yall probably won't believe this but, my sisters fiance is a Seahawks fan, and he talks crap about the Giants....LMFAO



I thought Seattle was a college team? Isn't it also known as USC or something?

Die-Hard
06-09-2012, 09:40 AM
Does it truly matter what people think about Eli Manning?

Because it really shouldn't. At all. Ever.

The obsession is disturbing.

miked1958
06-09-2012, 10:05 AM
I had a debate with my brother-in-law who is a big Eagles fan yesterday. He feels that Eli Manning is overated and that the main reason for his success is because of the crop of quality RB's & WR's he has at his disposal. He thinks that if you put an average NFL QB on the Giants he would be successful.

And furthermore he feels that if Vick was on the Giants they would have won the Super Bowl last season also. And if Eli was on the Eagles he would have won around 4 games.

When I argued the 15 4th quarter TD's, the come-from behind wins, and the Super Bowl wins he felt the Giants defense & O Line had more to do with it than Eli.

Clearly he hates Eli and doesn't watch much Giants games. But the part about the defense does have some truth in it. After SB 42, I felt Tuck (the whole Dline for that matter)deserved the MVP and not Eli. But no one can deny what he has done in both playoff runs. what do you guys think?

I think you should just say to him "yeah...I guess you're right..."... :-)


That period of silence from him when I mention our O Line & the NFCCG took care of that. I'll see him again on Thanksgiving with my Giants Super Bowl 46 T-Shirt on.Where it proudly!. If he starts with the Eagles are the vest team in the NFL talk you could have all 4 SB Shirts with u and where them at different times. Then say I don't want you to feel left out, so why don't you go up and get some of your teams Shirts and wear them! Seeing your team always seem to be the Best in NFL. See what kind of response u get

miked1958
06-09-2012, 10:05 AM
Might be a long and quiet thanksgiving dinner

giantsfan420
06-09-2012, 12:24 PM
Does it truly matter what people think about Eli Manning?

Because it really shouldn't. At all. Ever.

The obsession is disturbing.


Obviously a ton of people, giants fans and non fans alike think it matters what the thought on eli is.
and why shouldnt it?
the "dont discuss eli in this way or that way" mentality, ive found, usually comes from the mouths of people who have been proven wrong about eli, and they simply dont want to be reminded of how wrong they were.
This isnt directed at any one person, but more towards those who are obsessed with saying it shouldnt matter how eli is perceived. I do agree to a point with that thinking, but i almost never see the same logic applied in the whole eli topic to other players...

As fans we feel like owners to an extent. I dont know how a giants fan wouldnt want the deserved recognition, for any giants player not just eli...

giantsfan420
06-09-2012, 12:28 PM
Does it truly matter what people think about Eli Manning?

Because it really shouldn't. At all. Ever.

The obsession is disturbing.


Obviously a ton of people, giants fans and non fans alike think it matters what the thought on eli is.
and why shouldnt it?
the "dont discuss eli in this way or that way" mentality, ive found, usually comes from the mouths of people who have been proven wrong about eli, and they simply dont want to be reminded of how wrong they were.
This isnt directed at any one person, but more towards those who are obsessed with saying it shouldnt matter how eli is perceived. I do agree to a point with that thinking, but i almost never see the same logic applied in the whole eli topic to other players...

As fans we feel like owners to an extent. I dont know how a giants fan wouldnt want the deserved recognition, for any giants player not just eli...

And to add, there were a ton of people, nyg fans included, who never had a problem ragging and underestimating, devaluing eli. But now that he obviously proved those people wrong, we should just drop it? Nah. Imo, eli should get the credit hes earned from everyone, and when he isnt given that respect, it should be a topic for discussion.

Die-Hard
06-09-2012, 01:08 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.

yoeddy
06-09-2012, 04:05 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.





I am 100% all for letting the haters hate...tell them they are right and let them be happy. Then when Eli wins another Super Bowl, remind them how much better Vick is again....

FBomb
06-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <U>plenty</U> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.



</P>


This.</P>


But, admittedly, I have been in more than one heated conversation in a bar that started with someone questioning Eli's toughness.</P>

Die-Hard
06-09-2012, 07:00 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.





I am 100% all for letting the haters hate...tell them they are right and let them be happy. Then when Eli wins another Super Bowl, remind them how much better Vick is again....

Heres the thing though. Calling someone a "hater" for not being a huge homer and seeing zero faults in Eli as a QB is comical. No matter how someone wants to spin it, that kind of thought process is completely and totally irrational and badly unrealistic. Yes, he's a great QB, and the Giants are very lucky to have him, but I think some of these guys kneel down in front of his picture every night and pray to him before they go to sleep. He does deserve the respect of people, but that being said, he doesn't deserve blind praise from the entire football watching world, and everyone else left over. He still makes plenty of dumb mistakes and is wildly inconsistent, which is why he will always have his detractors. He is worlds better than Vick as a QB. Vick is the better athletic threat, and no one can deny this.

Thats reality. No one should lie awake at night over it. The only person in the world who could/should take offense is Eli Manning, and as previously stated, he doesn't appear to care what a bunch of fans on a message board think. Ergo, those fans on that message board shouldn't care either, but obviously thats not always the case, which is why we have to keep having the same silly threads like this one over and over again.

Die-Hard
06-09-2012, 07:06 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.



</p>


This.</p>


But, admittedly, I have been in more than one heated conversation in a bar that started with someone questioning Eli's toughness.</p>

Oh yeah, so have I. Theres no doubt that hes tough as nails. I defend him against the idiots of the world all the time. I just dont consider him to be the greatest ever, and I can freely admit that he has his faults in such arguments. Being a blind homer doesn't usually garner much respect from the opposition in an argument, which leads me to believe that some of these guys lose a lot of those arguments[;)]

chasjay
06-09-2012, 07:21 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.



</p>


This.</p>


But, admittedly, I have been in more than one heated conversation in a bar that started with someone questioning Eli's toughness.</p>

Oh yeah, so have I. Theres no doubt that hes tough as nails. I defend him against the idiots of the world all the time. I just dont consider him to be the greatest ever, and I can freely admit that he has his faults in such arguments. Being a blind homer doesn't usually garner much respect from the opposition in an argument, which leads me to believe that some of these guys lose a lot of those arguments[;)]


I don't consider myself a "blind" homer, but my vision might be a shade blurry. I only really take issue with one thing you wrote, and that was saying that Eli is still "wildly" inconsistent - I don't think the "wildly" part is accurate. Approximately half-way through his career, I think he has a chance to end his career as "one of" the best QB's ever - I don't see anything that tells me he can't achieve that. I especially agree with your take that Eli doesn't waste time worrying whether he gets enough praise or not. I believe that winning football games occupies his thoughts much more.

giantsfan420
06-09-2012, 07:50 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.





Huh? So now we shouldnt discuss topics if the subject of the topic doesnt care?
and even so, ur assessment is wrong. Obviously eli did care when he said he was elite, in bradys class, and not a 25power int qb.
and i find it equally comical describing a person who defends eli when he is overrated by someone as some blind homer who stays awake all night.

Heres the thing, and i honestly wasnt directing my response u cited towards u. Ur response that led to mine (sorry i know that last statement is confusing) was more about how a ton of people here can defend osi, tuck, pf...any member of the giants and the descriptions aimed at those who defend eli are never uttered to those defending another player. That was my basic point, usually the people saying "what does it matter, theres no need to defend eli...ur just a eli homer/fanatic" are the very people who were dead wrong about eli...i see absolutely no issue in defending elis play to an eagles fan who underestimates him. If the thread was created about osi being overrated, u wouldnt make the post u did and thats just fact. And honestly, ur assessment of eli being wildy inconsistent kinda proves my point...not only should we not defend eli "bc he doesnt care if he is underrated" (when in reality he does) but we should actually be reminded that a person underrating eli is correct...lol.

I have no issue when someone makes an opinion on a player, i may disagree with their opinion and debate them on it, but the ability or right to form that opinion is valid. Just as it is to form an opinion and defend eli...

As i said, alot of people had no qualms downplaying elis talent and questioning him as a player...so why should those people who had no issue doing so now suddenly have an issue when a person is doing the same exact thing only describing elis play positively? Its a double standard ive always found amusing. That was really just my issue...and i have no desire to come off as right or smarter than u or anyone. I jist call em as i see em and if im right great, im wrong enough so gotta celebrate the few times i actually dont come off as a moron

giantsfan420
06-09-2012, 07:55 PM
And sorry...i musta missed where anyone demanded they bow down to eli. Another statement usually made by those who were incorrect about him...when u defend or discuss simms, are u saying we should all bow down to simms? Nah thats ridiculous.

Elis the franchise qb, hes gonna get more attention than any other player...jjst the way it is...

giantsfan420
06-09-2012, 08:03 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.





I am 100% all for letting the haters hate...tell them they are right and let them be happy. Then when Eli wins another Super Bowl, remind them how much better Vick is again....

Heres the thing though. Calling someone a "hater" for not being a huge homer and seeing zero faults in Eli as a QB is comical. No matter how someone wants to spin it, that kind of thought process is completely and totally irrational and badly unrealistic. Yes, he's a great QB, and the Giants are very lucky to have him, but I think some of these guys kneel down in front of his picture every night and pray to him before they go to sleep. He does deserve the respect of people, but that being said, he doesn't deserve blind praise from the entire football watching world, and everyone else left over. He still makes plenty of dumb mistakes and is wildly inconsistent, which is why he will always have his detractors. He is worlds better than Vick as a QB. Vick is the better athletic threat, and no one can deny this.

Thats reality. No one should lie awake at night over it. The only person in the world who could/should take offense is Eli Manning, and as previously stated, he doesn't appear to care what a bunch of fans on a message board think. Ergo, those fans on that message board shouldn't care either, but obviously thats not always the case, which is why we have to keep having the same silly threads like this one over and over again.




The defense rests.

Exactly what i mean. Perfect example of what a person wrong about eli usually says...

Since when have i or anyone besides maybe a few people said eli is without his faults? People were wrong about eli, and again, those ppl are almost always the ones claiming people to be homers and that the homers call u a hater...

So being right about eli makes one a homer? And being wrong about eli makes a person fair and balanced?

Ur stance on this one makes zero sense to me. Maybe its bc ur referring to people i dont pay attention too or maybe bc i missed where what u said actually happened...but the way i see it is the people wrong about eli need to justify themselves by saying someone who was actually right about eli is a homer who prays to his picture and claims hes perfect when that isnt the case at all at least in my case...just as i dont consider u a hater at all, just someone who was wrong on something

giantsfan420
06-09-2012, 08:06 PM
Last thought on this just bc i feel its relvant. Diehard said eli bave people plenty of reasons to doubt and undervalue him...

I see it more of eli gave us plenty of reasons to see his awesome talent and bright future...

Die-Hard
06-09-2012, 09:07 PM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.





I am 100% all for letting the haters hate...tell them they are right and let them be happy. Then when Eli wins another Super Bowl, remind them how much better Vick is again....

Heres the thing though. Calling someone a "hater" for not being a huge homer and seeing zero faults in Eli as a QB is comical. No matter how someone wants to spin it, that kind of thought process is completely and totally irrational and badly unrealistic. Yes, he's a great QB, and the Giants are very lucky to have him, but I think some of these guys kneel down in front of his picture every night and pray to him before they go to sleep. He does deserve the respect of people, but that being said, he doesn't deserve blind praise from the entire football watching world, and everyone else left over. He still makes plenty of dumb mistakes and is wildly inconsistent, which is why he will always have his detractors. He is worlds better than Vick as a QB. Vick is the better athletic threat, and no one can deny this.

Thats reality. No one should lie awake at night over it. The only person in the world who could/should take offense is Eli Manning, and as previously stated, he doesn't appear to care what a bunch of fans on a message board think. Ergo, those fans on that message board shouldn't care either, but obviously thats not always the case, which is why we have to keep having the same silly threads like this one over and over again.




The defense rests.

Exactly what i mean. Perfect example of what a person wrong about eli usually says...

Since when have i or anyone besides maybe a few people said eli is without his faults? People were wrong about eli, and again, those ppl are almost always the ones claiming people to be homers and that the homers call u a hater...

So being right about eli makes one a homer? And being wrong about eli makes a person fair and balanced?

Ur stance on this one makes zero sense to me. Maybe its bc ur referring to people i dont pay attention too or maybe bc i missed where what u said actually happened...but the way i see it is the people wrong about eli need to justify themselves by saying someone who was actually right about eli is a homer who prays to his picture and claims hes perfect when that isnt the case at all at least in my case...just as i dont consider u a hater at all, just someone who was wrong on something

You speak as if you were Eli Manning himself. So he called himself an elite QB. How can you come to the conclusion that he's concerned about what people think of him from that statement? He stated his opinion, and in 2011, he most definitely played on an elite level, so he was correct in a sense. For his entire NFL career, no, he is not an elite QB, and the numbers prove it.

Again, in 2011, yes. Overall NFL career, hell no.

As for being wrong about him, I couldn't care less, as I'm not interested in a "who's wrong and who's right" nonsense argument. You're more of an optimist about Eli Manning than I am. It doesn't mean you're right or wrong. It means that you didn't let the 31 turnovers from the previous season dampen your enthusiasm. Quite frankly, his stock dropped dramatically in my eyes after that, but he most certainly redeemed himself last season, even though the team as a whole was less than impressive before the playoff run. Some people have him on a pedestal, and anyone who dares to say something even mildly negative about him is immediately shoved into the group of "wrong" people who are "haters". I'm not sure how that would make zero sense to you, but thats all I've been saying, and it's 100% true. There are in fact a hell of a lot of homers on this message board, and many of them refuse to accept the truth. A homer can be reasoned with. A blind homer is a lost cause who cant admit when they're wrong, and will be the first one to point out when someone else is. Not pointing a finger, just stating a fact.

Having watched this team for over 30 years, I've seen it all, and most people who have been along for the ride for this long will agree that it has not been easy. This team has given me a lot of reasons to be wary of them over the years. Most of the younger folks really have no idea how tough it was to endure that stuff, and I suspect that, since the 2 SB wins, the bandwagon has grown rather quickly. Thats not a knock on anyone, but winning usually does draw new fans, and many of those fans only follow winning teams until they start to lose. They've never been through the ugly times, and since all they care about is who is winning, they'll never see the ugly times because they will have already moved onto the next bandwagon.

Die-Hard
06-09-2012, 09:10 PM
Last thought on this just bc i feel its relvant. Diehard said eli bave people plenty of reasons to doubt and undervalue him...

I see it more of eli gave us plenty of reasons to see his awesome talent and bright future...

He gave me 31 reasons to doubt him in 2010, and thats only one season. There have been plenty of other massive blunders before then.

Maybe you've just blacked them out of your mind

giantsfan420
06-09-2012, 10:00 PM
Last thought on this just bc i feel its relvant. Diehard said eli bave people plenty of reasons to doubt and undervalue him...

I see it more of eli gave us plenty of reasons to see his awesome talent and bright future...

He gave me 31 reasons to doubt him in 2010, and thats only one season. There have been plenty of other massive blunders before then.

Maybe you've just blacked them out of your mind


And likewise, maybe uve blacked out all the positives that outweigh the negatives ten to one.

I always hear about these crazy homers that run rampant...aside from maybe five posters here, tops, and even then its debatable, these crazy homers calling ppl haters with vitriol and who say eli has no faults and who "black out"tho his negatives r more elusive than bigfoot. Maybe we could get ghost hunters on here to bring these alleged homers into view...

bigblue58
06-10-2012, 06:39 AM
My only response to the anyone dumb enough to still call Eli overrated is the following:

NFL records
Most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011)
Tied NFL Record longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011)
Most road playoff wins by a quarterback (5)
Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)
Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

Giants franchise records:
Most passing attempts (season): 589 (2011)
Most completions (season): 359 (2011)
Most passing yards (season): 4,933 (2011)
Longest completed pass: 99 yards (2011)
Most 4th quarter touchdown passes, season: 15 (NFL record)
Most consecutive starts by a quarterback: 119
Most consecutive pass completions, game: 21 (2011)
Most comeback wins in the 4th quarter (season): 5 (2007, 2011), tied
Most game-winning drives in the 4th quarter/overtime (season): 6 (2007, 2011)
Most career playoff touchdowns: 13 (2011)

And Most Important Stat Of All::
Most Valuable Player SB42
Most Valuable Player SB46

4th QTR Comebacks (career): 21
Game winning drives (career): 25

nygfanmaybe
06-10-2012, 07:21 AM
Blind homers, huh. In the case of Eli and this MB, there seems to be a lot more blind haters. Their eyes are open only when Eli makes a mistake, which a lot of times is not completely his mistake.

I was watching Peyton playing on Replay last night and he was back to pass, trying to buy time, then a rusher broke loose and zeroed in on him, so he finds a target coming across the middle and lets go. Just as he goes to throw, however, his receiver takes a stutter step and Peyton ends up throwing the ball right to the defender in the end zone. I remember thinking, "happens to the best of 'em."

Anybody who watched the 2010 season in it's entirety had to see receivers stopping on routes or batting the ball in the air or going the wrong way...or Eli screwing up and throwing a bad pass. They were all factors that built up to 25 picks in the same year that Mr. God, Brees, had 22.

All I will say is this. You can believe this or not, but from my perspective, I am not seeing blind homers on this board but more of stubborn haters who will give backhanded compliments but always followed by something negative. They never liked Eli, never will, and are having to suffer through this period of him as the NYG QB.

Don't fret over it too much, though, because I know what it is like. I have been a Saint fan since '67...die-hard. However, I think Drew Brees is a very talented egotistical jerk.
I love that he makes the Saints win but I always wished it coulda been someone else making them win. I just can't strap him on.

yoeddy
06-10-2012, 07:58 AM
Do you think Eli cares? I can answer that question with about 98% certainty

No, he doesn't.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter? I know what you're implying, and I've already admitted to being wrong about him last season countless times. It still doesn't make you look any better, or smarter, in my eyes. He gave <u>plenty</u> of people reason to doubt him because of the season prior to last. Whether or not many of them manned up and admitted to being wrong means nothing. The ones that dwell on it and demand that people bow down to him need to seriously get a life, because contrary to at least some opinions, he is not the greatest QB to ever play the game, and he doesn't deserve the extreme accolades that some insist on draping over him.





I am 100% all for letting the haters hate...tell them they are right and let them be happy. Then when Eli wins another Super Bowl, remind them how much better Vick is again....

Heres the thing though. Calling someone a "hater" for not being a huge homer and seeing zero faults in Eli as a QB is comical. No matter how someone wants to spin it, that kind of thought process is completely and totally irrational and badly unrealistic. Yes, he's a great QB, and the Giants are very lucky to have him, but I think some of these guys kneel down in front of his picture every night and pray to him before they go to sleep. He does deserve the respect of people, but that being said, he doesn't deserve blind praise from the entire football watching world, and everyone else left over. He still makes plenty of dumb mistakes and is wildly inconsistent, which is why he will always have his detractors. He is worlds better than Vick as a QB. Vick is the better athletic threat, and no one can deny this.

Thats reality. No one should lie awake at night over it. The only person in the world who could/should take offense is Eli Manning, and as previously stated, he doesn't appear to care what a bunch of fans on a message board think. Ergo, those fans on that message board shouldn't care either, but obviously thats not always the case, which is why we have to keep having the same silly threads like this one over and over again.




Eagles fans who think Vick is better than Eli are "haters" imho. Do you disagree? That's who this thread is talking about, based on the original poster's first message...

Die-Hard
06-10-2012, 08:34 AM
Last thought on this just bc i feel its relvant. Diehard said eli bave people plenty of reasons to doubt and undervalue him...

I see it more of eli gave us plenty of reasons to see his awesome talent and bright future...

He gave me 31 reasons to doubt him in 2010, and thats only one season. There have been plenty of other massive blunders before then.

Maybe you've just blacked them out of your mind


And likewise, maybe uve blacked out all the positives that outweigh the negatives ten to one.

I always hear about these crazy homers that run rampant...aside from maybe five posters here, tops, and even then its debatable, these crazy homers calling ppl haters with vitriol and who say eli has no faults and who "black out"tho his negatives r more elusive than bigfoot. Maybe we could get ghost hunters on here to bring these alleged homers into view...

How long have you been watching this team? Serious question, and I will not attack your answer in any way. You joined here in Jan 2007.

Yes, there are a lot of positives about Eli's game, but 10-1? Thats a bit extreme, and inaccurate. He has improved dramatically in the past 3-4 years, but he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes and bad decisions every season. It is because of those bad mistakes and those dumb decisions that he doesn't get the kind of praise from the media, and his fellow NFL players, that a lot of folks here think he deserves. Those media types and NFL players, not to mention other posters on this message board(who shall remain nameless), are then all lumped together as a collective group of "haters". In other words, a LOT of people who get paid for their opinions, and those whom are peers of the man on the field, don't see him the way that you and others here do.

It just so happens that I can look at this team with an unbiased eye. Eli is a tremendous part of their recent success, and after all of those years between Simms leaving(and for the record, Simms was tough as hell, but average at best) and Eli being drafted, its great to be able to look forward to every season, knowing that the Giants have someone entrenched at QB who gives them a great chance to win every week. He is in fact a luxury, but again, he does make mistakes that make no sense at all for an almost 10 year veteran, and THAT is why those with an objective eye will never give him the massive amount of credit and praise that you obviously feel he deserves. I don't like the mental errors he makes, but it doesn't mean I hate the guy as our QB. Far from it

There is a huge difference between criticism and hatred. You'll be much better off when you figure that out.

Die-Hard
06-10-2012, 08:38 AM
Blind homers, huh. In the case of Eli and this MB, there seems to be a lot more blind haters. Their eyes are open only when Eli makes a mistake, which a lot of times is not completely his mistake.

I was watching Peyton playing on Replay last night and he was back to pass, trying to buy time, then a rusher broke loose and zeroed in on him, so he finds a target coming across the middle and lets go. Just as he goes to throw, however, his receiver takes a stutter step and Peyton ends up throwing the ball right to the defender in the end zone. I remember thinking, "happens to the best of 'em."

Anybody who watched the 2010 season in it's entirety had to see receivers stopping on routes or batting the ball in the air or going the wrong way...or Eli screwing up and throwing a bad pass. They were all factors that built up to 25 picks in the same year that Mr. God, Brees, had 22.

All I will say is this. You can believe this or not, but from my perspective, I am not seeing blind homers on this board but more of stubborn haters who will give backhanded compliments but always followed by something negative. They never liked Eli, never will, and are having to suffer through this period of him as the NYG QB.

Don't fret over it too much, though, because I know what it is like. I have been a Saint fan since '67...die-hard. However, I think Drew Brees is a very talented egotistical jerk.
I love that he makes the Saints win but I always wished it coulda been someone else making them win. I just can't strap him on.

Stubborn haters who never liked Eli, and never will, and all because they're capable of being objective and raising legitimate questions about his uneven play at times? LMAO

Man, its either one extreme or another. No middle ground at all. Too funny.

Not fretting over anything, my man. Never have, but thanks[;)]

yoeddy
06-10-2012, 08:51 AM
Last thought on this just bc i feel its relvant. Diehard said eli bave people plenty of reasons to doubt and undervalue him...

I see it more of eli gave us plenty of reasons to see his awesome talent and bright future...

He gave me 31 reasons to doubt him in 2010, and thats only one season. There have been plenty of other massive blunders before then.

Maybe you've just blacked them out of your mind


And likewise, maybe uve blacked out all the positives that outweigh the negatives ten to one.

I always hear about these crazy homers that run rampant...aside from maybe five posters here, tops, and even then its debatable, these crazy homers calling ppl haters with vitriol and who say eli has no faults and who "black out"tho his negatives r more elusive than bigfoot. Maybe we could get ghost hunters on here to bring these alleged homers into view...

How long have you been watching this team? Serious question, and I will not attack your answer in any way. You joined here in Jan 2007.

Yes, there are a lot of positives about Eli's game, but 10-1? Thats a bit extreme, and inaccurate. He has improved dramatically in the past 3-4 years, but he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes and bad decisions every season. It is because of those bad mistakes and those dumb decisions that he doesn't get the kind of praise from the media, and his fellow NFL players, that a lot of folks here think he deserves. Those media types and NFL players, not to mention other posters on this message board(who shall remain nameless), are then all lumped together as a collective group of "haters". In other words, a LOT of people who get paid for their opinions, and those whom are peers of the man on the field, don't see him the way that you and others here do.

It just so happens that I can look at this team with an unbiased eye. Eli is a tremendous part of their recent success, and after all of those years between Simms leaving(and for the record, Simms was tough as hell, but average at best) and Eli being drafted, its great to be able to look forward to every season, knowing that the Giants have someone entrenched at QB who gives them a great chance to win every week. He is in fact a luxury, but again, he does make mistakes that make no sense at all for an almost 10 year veteran, and THAT is why those with an objective eye will never give him the massive amount of credit and praise that you obviously feel he deserves. I don't like the mental errors he makes, but it doesn't mean I hate the guy as our QB. Far from it

There is a huge difference between criticism and hatred. You'll be much better off when you figure that out.


There isn't a QB in the league that doesn't make "dumb mistakes" every now and then....

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 08:55 AM
Blind homers, huh. In the case of Eli and this MB, there seems to be a lot more blind haters. Their eyes are open only when Eli makes a mistake, which a lot of times is not completely his mistake.

I was watching Peyton playing on Replay last night and he was back to pass, trying to buy time, then a rusher broke loose and zeroed in on him, so he finds a target coming across the middle and lets go. Just as he goes to throw, however, his receiver takes a stutter step and Peyton ends up throwing the ball right to the defender in the end zone. I remember thinking, "happens to the best of 'em."

Anybody who watched the 2010 season in it's entirety had to see receivers stopping on routes or batting the ball in the air or going the wrong way...or Eli screwing up and throwing a bad pass. They were all factors that built up to 25 picks in the same year that Mr. God, Brees, had 22.

All I will say is this. You can believe this or not, but from my perspective, I am not seeing blind homers on this board but more of stubborn haters who will give backhanded compliments but always followed by something negative. They never liked Eli, never will, and are having to suffer through this period of him as the NYG QB.

Don't fret over it too much, though, because I know what it is like. I have been a Saint fan since '67...die-hard. However, I think Drew Brees is a very talented egotistical jerk.
I love that he makes the Saints win but I always wished it coulda been someone else making them win. I just can't strap him on.

Since u mentioned peyton id like to add a point. Peyton was underrated and labeled as a cant win big games qb...he got rid of those labels year nine iirc.

Certain people are always going to fabricate things for their own ego. Ie, creating fictional eli homers going around demanding people bow to him,

nygfanmaybe
06-10-2012, 09:01 AM
Stubborn haters who never liked Eli, and never will, and all because they're capable of being objective and raising legitimate questions about his uneven play at times?

It is the fact that they are still raising questions that they think are legitimate after 2 SB wins in 8 years, etc.

Flip Empty
06-10-2012, 09:59 AM
Stubborn haters who never liked Eli, and never will, and all because they're capable of being objective and raising legitimate questions about his uneven play at times?

It is the fact that they are still raising questions that they think are legitimate after 2 SB wins in 8 years, etc.
How are they no longer legitimate? That could've been three SB wins in 8 years if it wasn't for that boatload of turnovers.

Also, Ben Roethlisberger's accomplished the same feat yet he still gets questioned. He's been to three Super Bowls, yet people on here would probably laugh in your face if you tried to say he's on Eli's level.

sharick88
06-10-2012, 10:26 AM
Eli is a made man. Success embraces hate.

Die-Hard
06-10-2012, 11:08 AM
Stubborn haters who never liked Eli, and never will, and all because they're capable of being objective and raising legitimate questions about his uneven play at times?

It is the fact that they are still raising questions that they think are legitimate after 2 SB wins in 8 years, etc.

So 2 Super Bowls completely erase all questions and doubts about Eli Manning? He is solely responsible for both of them? The defense in '07 had little to do with it? Those 31 turnovers were responsible for at least 2-3 losses in '10, which as you know kept them out of the playoffs. Sorry to break it to you, but every single QB can be legitimately be questioned, no matter how untouchable you think they are. Fans have been critical of their teams for decades. It doesn't mean they don't love the teams or support the guys who play on them. If someone can't handle seeing criticism of a football player, the last place they should be is on a public message board, where opinions are the lifeblood of the forum.

Reality check: Someone on the D-Line should have gotten MVP in SB42. Eli had a good game, of course, but those guys were the real heroes in that game. Were it not for them, that record breaking offense of the Pats would have put up a hell of a lot more than 14 points, and I defy anyone with even a shred of realism to tell me anything different. You'd be lying to yourself by saying anything different.

Die-Hard
06-10-2012, 11:09 AM
Stubborn haters who never liked Eli, and never will, and all because they're capable of being objective and raising legitimate questions about his uneven play at times?

It is the fact that they are still raising questions that they think are legitimate after 2 SB wins in 8 years, etc.
How are they no longer legitimate? That could've been three SB wins in 8 years if it wasn't for that boatload of turnovers.

Also, Ben Roethlisberger's accomplished the same feat yet he still gets questioned. He's been to three Super Bowls, yet people on here would probably laugh in your face if you tried to say he's on Eli's level.

Stop it. You're making too much sense

FBomb
06-10-2012, 11:19 AM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt. There are those who like to point out pastmistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>

gumby742
06-10-2012, 11:45 AM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt.* There are those who like to point out past*mistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>

Oh c'mon now. Eli remains the single most entertaining topic to discuss mainly because it's great fun to see how butt hurt people get when Eli is questioned.

The double standard that some Eli cheering section folks have for Eli is unbelievable.

FBomb
06-10-2012, 11:49 AM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt. There are those who like to point out pastmistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>


Oh c'mon now. Eli remains the single most entertaining topic to discuss mainly because it's great fun to see how butt hurt people get when Eli is questioned. The double standard that some Eli cheering section folks have for Eli is unbelievable.</P>


Right on cue. I don't believe there was anyone on this board more wrong about Eli than you![:)]</P>


Well, maybe manningbowl.</P>

sc_markt
06-10-2012, 11:55 AM
I don't care anymore what people think of Eli. We got two Superbowl wins under him and his contributions in both of those wins was significant.

As far as I'm concerned, he has nothing to prove anymore.

FBomb
06-10-2012, 12:19 PM
I don't care anymore what people think of Eli. We got two Superbowl wins under him and his contributions in both of those wins was significant. As far as I'm concerned, he has nothing to prove anymore.</P>


https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJtj4W5Tm_asA6Y16aU3dq_-fB-2bV49kV2y5EsYqqZOGXPAzS</P>

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 12:57 PM
Stubborn haters who never liked Eli, and never will, and all because they're capable of being objective and raising legitimate questions about his uneven play at times?

It is the fact that they are still raising questions that they think are legitimate after 2 SB wins in 8 years, etc.

So 2 Super Bowls completely erase all questions and doubts about Eli Manning? He is solely responsible for both of them? The defense in '07 had little to do with it? Those 31 turnovers were responsible for at least 2-3 losses in '10, which as you know kept them out of the playoffs. Sorry to break it to you, but every single QB can be legitimately be questioned, no matter how untouchable you think they are. Fans have been critical of their teams for decades. It doesn't mean they don't love the teams or support the guys who play on them. If someone can't handle seeing criticism of a football player, the last place they should be is on a public message board, where opinions are the lifeblood of the forum.

Reality check: Someone on the D-Line should have gotten MVP in SB42. Eli had a good game, of course, but those guys were the real heroes in that game. Were it not for them, that record breaking offense of the Pats would have put up a hell of a lot more than 14 points, and I defy anyone with even a shred of realism to tell me anything different. You'd be lying to yourself by saying anything different.





Again, where r these so called posters u speak of?? Where they call ppl names if they dislike an aspedt of elis game?

I see far more people who call ppl homers bc they were simply right about eli than i do "homers" labeling people homers...ex this threae...diehard has already called and insinuated insults about eli "homers"labeling yet havent seen one person call him any of the names he claims occurs all the time.

Gumby saying doubke standard lmfao...double standard is when people made all sorts of incorrect claims about eli. After theyre proven wrong, they then say we shouldnt discuss eli anymore and that if we dp we ray to his pic and worship him etc...

GET OVER IT u posters who were dead wrong. As much as ud like the whole eli thing to disappear, hes our starting franchise qb...he s gonna be discussed simple as that...

Always find it amusing tho how the people who made awful claims about eli are almost always the ones name calling and trying to stifle eli convos...

I mean diehard no offense, u were saying that he shouldnt defend eli to a philly fan underrating eli...and then u went onto say he certainky has his merit...but that we should drop it bc eli doesnt care...lmfao eli is somehow controversial even after all hes accomplished.

And thats another thing they tend to do, in giving credit to eli, they claim we completely absolve our defense lmfao

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 12:58 PM
Edit sorry iif may havehave been a lil too heated last post. This sorta subject always does. I went a lil too far heated. apologies, i am guilty of somethe of these issues i gotta admit-

Breezely
06-10-2012, 03:28 PM
Overrated or not, I am glad Eli is the quartback of the Superbowl Champion NY Giants! The Giants are lucky to have him.

Die-Hard
06-10-2012, 05:09 PM
Diehard claims we absolve the d from our success all the while saying
the 31 turnovers were all on eli and eli lost 3 games for us on his
own...DOUBLE STANDAR

Oops. Sorry guy, you didn't edit fast enough[;)]

Thats not even close to being a double standard. I'm merely pointing out the facts. Eli had the ball in his hands when each and every one of those turnovers happened. They were not all his fault, but better than half of them were, and as a result, they went against him, and they most definitely cost the team at least 2 games.

Absolve the D?! During the '07 playoff run, it can not be denied that the defense, and in particular the DLine, was LARGELY responsible for the success on the run to the SB. Eli definitely contributed, and I know this is going to sting a bit, but he didn't do it all. He played lights out, and limited his mistakes in a huge way, and for that he gets credit, but not ALL of the credit. If you don't agree, well....we must have been watching different games. I have no problem giving Eli credit, because he deserves it. I just don't have him on the same sky-high level that some of you guys appear to have him on. Doesn't make me a hater, nor does it make me any less of a fan.

Know what? I'm wrong, and you're right. Always. It seems to be what you need to hear, so....there ya go, dude. Enjoy it. The high road has a much better view anyway.

EliTE
06-10-2012, 05:35 PM
those turnovers did not cost us games. i'm sick of hearing that nonsense. the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways, or in games that we would have lost either way. i remember specifically pointing that out to all the eli haters that year.

please cite some examples to back your claims that eli's turnovers cost us 2 or 3 games that year.... i'll be waiting.

Die-Hard
06-10-2012, 05:51 PM
Right off the top of my head, the head first "slide" against the Eagles. They were moving down the field, down by 7, he breaks off a run of 16, and with no one near him, falls forward and fumbles the ball. That was the game. I think he threw 3 picks that night as well.

I'll come back with more later on. Keep waiting

Neverend
06-10-2012, 06:02 PM
I find 2010 to be one of Eli's more better seasons. I loved his play that year. He tailed off a bit when steve went down but that was due to him accomodating for a lack of talent and/or inconsistency in certain positions

Take a game Eli had 4 turnovers in -- like against dallas in dallas. That was one of the most absolutely incredible games I've seen of Eli's. Sure, he had 3 interceptions and a fumble? Yes. But that game was oustanding. The way Eli just kept diagnosing and destroying Wade phillips' coverages/schemes was nothing short of excellent. The execution was great and Eli just controlled and dominated at the line of scrimmage pre-snap. It was a surgical preformance that had everything from Eli. Accuracy, touch, his exceptional ability to play with his eyes, etc

But it was overshadowed by his 4 turnovers that day (2 of which bounced of receivers). Shame that people are looking past his 2010 season, mainly due to pure shallow ignorance. But nontheless, 2010 was an impressive year for Eli and showcased how he has been improving every year.

Flip Empty
06-10-2012, 06:04 PM
those turnovers did not cost us games. i'm sick of hearing that nonsense. the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways, or in games that we would have lost either way. i remember specifically pointing that out to all the eli haters that year.

please cite some examples to back your claims that eli's turnovers cost us 2 or 3 games that year.... i'll be waiting.
Come on, not one loss that season came without at least one Eli turnover:

http://i.imgur.com/bXgyX.jpg

14 turnovers in games won
16 turnovers in games lost

http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/gamelogs?season=2010

Neverend
06-10-2012, 06:05 PM
Right off the top of my head, the head first "slide" against the Eagles. They were moving down the field, down by 7, he breaks off a run of 16, and with no one near him, falls forward and fumbles the ball. That was the game. I think he threw 3 picks that night as well.

I'll come back with more later on. Keep waiting


Yeah, that was probably Eli's worst game in 2010. But really, that was the only terrible preformance in my book. That, and against Green Bay (although the receivers were just as responsible for the bad execution that day, and the defense didnt help matters at all)

Outside of those two games, I think Eli enjoyed a very fine 2010 campaign. People forget, halfway through the season many were claiming Eli was playing at an elite level.

Drez
06-10-2012, 06:17 PM
Right off the top of my head, the head first "slide" against the Eagles. They were moving down the field, down by 7, he breaks off a run of 16, and with no one near him, falls forward and fumbles the ball. That was the game. I think he threw 3 picks that night as well.

I'll come back with more later on. Keep waiting

And just as some of Eli's turnovers cost us some games, so had lousy defensive performances. Particularly, the defense shrunk in the biggest moments in '10, primarily 8 minutes left in the Eagles game and the following week at GB. Not to justify Eli's turnovers, but even with them we were in a position to make the playoffs.

It's easy to point at the number and say, "Eli had a lot of turnovers, he sucked." But, you're blind to the reality of the situation if you don't acknowledge we had a very flukey year for turnovers with all the tipped passes... Heck, I want to say that we also recovered only a handful of our own fumbles, too (something like a 25%-33%, when league average is closer to half).

Drez
06-10-2012, 06:34 PM
those turnovers did not cost us games. i'm sick of hearing that nonsense. the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways, or in games that we would have lost either way. i remember specifically pointing that out to all the eli haters that year.

please cite some examples to back your claims that eli's turnovers cost us 2 or 3 games that year.... i'll be waiting.
Come on, not one loss that season came without at least one Eli turnover:

http://i.imgur.com/bXgyX.jpg

14 turnovers in games won
16 turnovers in games lost

http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/gamelogs?season=2010
Giving the numbers not in context is meaningless. Like the GB game, 3 of the picks came in the 4Q when it was obvious we weren't winning. Eli was about the only one that came to play that game. Or in 2Eagles, the pick came in the first or second quarter and subsequently we built a 31-10 lead that the defense and special teams pissed away. The last interception in 1Eagles was with well under a minute left and down 10.

Also, ELiTE's point was that a turnover by Eli wasn't the sole cause of any loss, that there were other things that played into it, too. Say to use DH's fumble in 1Eagles above, we can say the defense giving up a 50 yd TD on 4-1 after we tied the game up and started gaining momentum was as big a cause for that loss as any of Eli's turnovers (that play was also set up by a defensive offsides on 3-6, I think by JPP, where we stopped the Eagles which in turn set up a make-able and try-able 4-1).

Yes, Eli had a shockingly bad year for turnovers in '10. However, once you take away the flukey amount of tips and miscommunication picks (somewhere between 10-13), you aren't left with that many. And of those that are left, there aren't many where Eli just plain misread the defense, which would truly be concerning, but more that Eli just didn't want to give up on a play that he should have had. It was something that is/was easily worked upon. Troublesome, yes. Concerning, no.

GMENAGAIN
06-10-2012, 06:38 PM
those turnovers did not cost us games. i'm sick of hearing that nonsense. the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways, or in games that we would have lost either way. i remember specifically pointing that out to all the eli haters that year. please cite some examples to back your claims that eli's turnovers cost us 2 or 3 games that year.... i'll be waiting.</P>


This is called blind homerism . . . . can't even argue with a fan like this.</P>

Flip Empty
06-10-2012, 06:45 PM
]
Giving the numbers not in context is meaningless. Like the GB game, 3 of the picks came in the 4Q when it was obvious we weren't winning. Eli was about the only one that came to play that game. Or in 2Eagles, the pick came in the first or second quarter and subsequently we built a 31-10 lead that the defense and special teams pissed away. The last interception in 1Eagles was with well under a minute left and down 10.

Also, ELiTE's point was that a turnover by Eli wasn't the sole cause of any loss, that there were other things that played into it, too. Say to use DH's fumble in 1Eagles above, we can say the defense giving up a 50 yd TD on 4-1 after we tied the game up and started gaining momentum was as big a cause for that loss as any of Eli's turnovers (that play was also set up by a defensive offsides on 3-6, I think by JPP, where we stopped the Eagles which in turn set up a make-able and try-able 4-1).

Yes, Eli had a shockingly bad year for turnovers in '10. However, once you take away the flukey amount of tips and miscommunication picks (somewhere between 10-13), you aren't left with that many. And of those that are left, there aren't many where Eli just plain misread the defense, which would truly be concerning, but more that Eli just didn't want to give up on a play that he should have had. It was something that is/was easily worked upon. Troublesome, yes. Concerning, no.

Was just debunking the poster's baseless claims. " the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways"

Drez
06-10-2012, 06:54 PM
]
Giving the numbers not in context is meaningless. Like the GB game, 3 of the picks came in the 4Q when it was obvious we weren't winning. Eli was about the only one that came to play that game. Or in 2Eagles, the pick came in the first or second quarter and subsequently we built a 31-10 lead that the defense and special teams pissed away. The last interception in 1Eagles was with well under a minute left and down 10.

Also, ELiTE's point was that a turnover by Eli wasn't the sole cause of any loss, that there were other things that played into it, too. Say to use DH's fumble in 1Eagles above, we can say the defense giving up a 50 yd TD on 4-1 after we tied the game up and started gaining momentum was as big a cause for that loss as any of Eli's turnovers (that play was also set up by a defensive offsides on 3-6, I think by JPP, where we stopped the Eagles which in turn set up a make-able and try-able 4-1).

Yes, Eli had a shockingly bad year for turnovers in '10. However, once you take away the flukey amount of tips and miscommunication picks (somewhere between 10-13), you aren't left with that many. And of those that are left, there aren't many where Eli just plain misread the defense, which would truly be concerning, but more that Eli just didn't want to give up on a play that he should have had. It was something that is/was easily worked upon. Troublesome, yes. Concerning, no.

Was just debunking the poster's baseless claims. " the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways"
"...Or in games we would have lost anyways."

Considering he was 14 in wins, 16 in losses and 4 of those came in the loss to GB that we wouldn't have won anyway, I guess he's right, lol.

Still bad logic. Eli's turnovers in '10 were a big part of the reason we didn't make the playoffs, but they were far from the only reason, and on some level not even the biggest reason. I side with MMB when he says the defensive performances against the Eagles and GB were probably the biggest reasons we didn't make it.

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 07:07 PM
Diehard claims we absolve the d from our success all the while saying
the 31 turnovers were all on eli and eli lost 3 games for us on his
own...DOUBLE STANDAR

Oops. Sorry guy, you didn't edit fast enough[;)]

Thats not even close to being a double standard. I'm merely pointing out the facts. Eli had the ball in his hands when each and every one of those turnovers happened. They were not all his fault, but better than half of them were, and as a result, they went against him, and they most definitely cost the team at least 2 games.

Absolve the D?! During the '07 playoff run, it can not be denied that the defense, and in particular the DLine, was LARGELY responsible for the success on the run to the SB. Eli definitely contributed, and I know this is going to sting a bit, but he didn't do it all. He played lights out, and limited his mistakes in a huge way, and for that he gets credit, but not ALL of the credit. If you don't agree, well....we must have been watching different games. I have no problem giving Eli credit, because he deserves it. I just don't have him on the same sky-high level that some of you guys appear to have him on. Doesn't make me a hater, nor does it make me any less of a fan.

Know what? I'm wrong, and you're right. Always. It seems to be what you need to hear, so....there ya go, dude. Enjoy it. The high road has a much better view anyway.


Oh i def think the d was as important as the o and eli. But like u said for the turnovers u gotta say for the good, the ball was in his hands every play.

And i meant that as a lot of the time that will be whats said when talking to eli supporters "u dont credit the d" n that is applied so often when i hardly ever see someone actually not credit the d

Flip Empty
06-10-2012, 07:10 PM
]
Giving the numbers not in context is meaningless. Like the GB game, 3 of the picks came in the 4Q when it was obvious we weren't winning. Eli was about the only one that came to play that game. Or in 2Eagles, the pick came in the first or second quarter and subsequently we built a 31-10 lead that the defense and special teams pissed away. The last interception in 1Eagles was with well under a minute left and down 10.

Also, ELiTE's point was that a turnover by Eli wasn't the sole cause of any loss, that there were other things that played into it, too. Say to use DH's fumble in 1Eagles above, we can say the defense giving up a 50 yd TD on 4-1 after we tied the game up and started gaining momentum was as big a cause for that loss as any of Eli's turnovers (that play was also set up by a defensive offsides on 3-6, I think by JPP, where we stopped the Eagles which in turn set up a make-able and try-able 4-1).

Yes, Eli had a shockingly bad year for turnovers in '10. However, once you take away the flukey amount of tips and miscommunication picks (somewhere between 10-13), you aren't left with that many. And of those that are left, there aren't many where Eli just plain misread the defense, which would truly be concerning, but more that Eli just didn't want to give up on a play that he should have had. It was something that is/was easily worked upon. Troublesome, yes. Concerning, no.

Was just debunking the poster's baseless claims. " the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways"
"...Or in games we would have lost anyways."

Considering he was 14 in wins, 16 in losses and 4 of those came in the loss to GB that we wouldn't have won anyway, I guess he's right, lol.

Still bad logic. Eli's turnovers in '10 were a big part of the reason we didn't make the playoffs, but they were far from the only reason, and on some level not even the biggest reason. I side with MMB when he says the defensive performances against the Eagles and GB were probably the biggest reasons we didn't make it.
Hah, I suppose. Shot myself in the foot there haha.

Yeah of course. You win and lose as a team. Eli's turnovers of course contributed, but they weren't the only factor.

And I'm not trying to slag off Eli -- far from it. I've always liked him and wouldn't want anyone else quarterbacking the Giants. I just see no wrong in acknowledging his faults.
Blindly defending every scrap of criticism directed at him is silly, quite frankly.
Eli's good -- great, even. But he's not that great. At least not yet.


On another note, Eli's dreadful 2010 season actually makes his 2011 performance more impressive. To bounce back in that fashion demonstrates how strong he is mentally.

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 07:11 PM
Diehard claims we absolve the d from our success all the while saying
the 31 turnovers were all on eli and eli lost 3 games for us on his
own...DOUBLE STANDAR

Oops. Sorry guy, you didn't edit fast enough[;)]

Thats not even close to being a double standard. I'm merely pointing out the facts. Eli had the ball in his hands when each and every one of those turnovers happened. They were not all his fault, but better than half of them were, and as a result, they went against him, and they most definitely cost the team at least 2 games.

Absolve the D?! During the '07 playoff run, it can not be denied that the defense, and in particular the DLine, was LARGELY responsible for the success on the run to the SB. Eli definitely contributed, and I know this is going to sting a bit, but he didn't do it all. He played lights out, and limited his mistakes in a huge way, and for that he gets credit, but not ALL of the credit. If you don't agree, well....we must have been watching different games. I have no problem giving Eli credit, because he deserves it. I just don't have him on the same sky-high level that some of you guys appear to have him on. Doesn't make me a hater, nor does it make me any less of a fan.

Know what? I'm wrong, and you're right. Always. It seems to be what you need to hear, so....there ya go, dude. Enjoy it. The high road has a much better view anyway.


Oh i def think the d was as important as the o and eli. But like u said for the turnovers u gotta say for the good, the ball was in his hands every play.

And i meant that as a lot of the time that will be whats said when talking to eli supporters "u dont credit the d" n that is applied so often when i hardly ever see someone actually not credit the d

And how is bc u were wrong that means i must always be right? I dont think ive articulated myself well...im not even caring that u were wrong, u said it urself in a post and i was jusr referenckng that. I dont even think u were wrong, and i think u def had reason for ur claims.

My position is that often people who share ur stance cant give me the same credit. Its always what is done and u just did it urself "oh i get it u have to be right always. U have to hear it."Like wtf?
bc i defend eli esp to philly fans and doubters doesnt make me any of the things uve said about people who share my stance. When did i call u a hater? When did i even say u were wrong? Or anyone? I present my opinion, and i dont get the same respect back. Ur whole interadtion this post with me is a perfect example of what i mean

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 07:14 PM
Bc i was actually right about eli doesnt make me a homer, a person that gives no credit to the d or other players, doesnt mean i believe he has no faults, and i dont pray to his picture...which is what you said and implied.

U say ur wrong, cool. Dont care...dont care i was right besides having all this success and fun...doesnt mean i think ur a hater.
and usually that common understanding is never recipricated

Drez
06-10-2012, 07:19 PM
]
Giving the numbers not in context is meaningless. Like the GB game, 3 of the picks came in the 4Q when it was obvious we weren't winning. Eli was about the only one that came to play that game. Or in 2Eagles, the pick came in the first or second quarter and subsequently we built a 31-10 lead that the defense and special teams pissed away. The last interception in 1Eagles was with well under a minute left and down 10.

Also, ELiTE's point was that a turnover by Eli wasn't the sole cause of any loss, that there were other things that played into it, too. Say to use DH's fumble in 1Eagles above, we can say the defense giving up a 50 yd TD on 4-1 after we tied the game up and started gaining momentum was as big a cause for that loss as any of Eli's turnovers (that play was also set up by a defensive offsides on 3-6, I think by JPP, where we stopped the Eagles which in turn set up a make-able and try-able 4-1).

Yes, Eli had a shockingly bad year for turnovers in '10. However, once you take away the flukey amount of tips and miscommunication picks (somewhere between 10-13), you aren't left with that many. And of those that are left, there aren't many where Eli just plain misread the defense, which would truly be concerning, but more that Eli just didn't want to give up on a play that he should have had. It was something that is/was easily worked upon. Troublesome, yes. Concerning, no.

Was just debunking the poster's baseless claims. " the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways"
"...Or in games we would have lost anyways."

Considering he was 14 in wins, 16 in losses and 4 of those came in the loss to GB that we wouldn't have won anyway, I guess he's right, lol.

Still bad logic. Eli's turnovers in '10 were a big part of the reason we didn't make the playoffs, but they were far from the only reason, and on some level not even the biggest reason. I side with MMB when he says the defensive performances against the Eagles and GB were probably the biggest reasons we didn't make it.
Hah, I suppose. Shot myself in the foot there haha.

Yeah of course. You win and lose as a team. Eli's turnovers of course contributed, but they weren't the only factor.

And I'm not trying to slag off Eli -- far from it. I've always liked him and wouldn't want anyone else quarterbacking the Giants. I just see no wrong in acknowledging his faults.
Blindly defending every scrap of criticism directed at him is silly, quite frankly.
Eli's good -- great, even. But he's not that great. At least not yet.


On another note, Eli's dreadful 2010 season actually makes his 2011 performance more impressive. To bounce back in that fashion demonstrates how strong he is mentally.

I agree with most of that, but I think after this season Eli definitely put himself in the great category.

See, I don't think there was much of a bounce back needed, though. The only thing he really needed to to do was to not try to do everything on his own, to give up on a play if there was truly nothing there.

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 07:20 PM
I find 2010 to be one of Eli's more better seasons. I loved his play that year. He tailed off a bit when steve went down but that was due to him accomodating for a lack of talent and/or inconsistency in certain positions

Take a game Eli had 4 turnovers in -- like against dallas in dallas. That was one of the most absolutely incredible games I've seen of Eli's. Sure, he had 3 interceptions and a fumble? Yes. But that game was oustanding. The way Eli just kept diagnosing and destroying Wade phillips' coverages/schemes was nothing short of excellent. The execution was great and Eli just controlled and dominated at the line of scrimmage pre-snap. It was a surgical preformance that had everything from Eli. Accuracy, touch, his exceptional ability to play with his eyes, etc

But it was overshadowed by his 4 turnovers that day (2 of which bounced of receivers). Shame that people are looking past his 2010 season, mainly due to pure shallow ignorance. But nontheless, 2010 was an impressive year for Eli and showcased how he has been improving every year.

I agree completely. I wish more fans had a qb mentality where short memory is necessary in some regard. An int sucks in every way, but one bad pass ououtta 40 isnt gonna kill ya imo.
bad plays happen all the time. Missed tackles, drkpped passes, blown coverage/blocking...its about limiting them.
in that regard eli struggles with still somewhat and in 2010 pretty badly...that will kill a teams chances yet often his plqy was good enough to still lead us to a win...

Besides, 25 ints is an anomaly. He imrpoved/s every yr and that wont stop. But yeah nend i agree with ur stance he still perforned at a pretty high level even with some untimely passes

EliTE
06-10-2012, 07:29 PM
those turnovers did not cost us games. i'm sick of hearing that nonsense. the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways, or in games that we would have lost either way. i remember specifically pointing that out to all the eli haters that year. please cite some examples to back your claims that eli's turnovers cost us 2 or 3 games that year.... i'll be waiting.</P>


This is called blind homerism . . . . can't even argue with a fan like this.</P>its called actually watching the games and not basing it all on stats. eli had very few if any turnovers that year that led directly to a loss. the majority came in games that we won anyway or would have lost either way... since i got called out by stat geeks i'll break it down off the top of my head.

colts - defense got destroyed as well as the o-line

titans - 400 yards of offense but missed fg, fumbled in red zone

cowboys - kitna lit us up lol @ putting that on eli, also nicks gave up on the route on that pick six, last pick was in garbage time on a bad route by manningham

eagles - i remember samuel jumping one route and the other 2 picks being unlucky deflections on passes thrown too... wait are you serious? hagan? lol receivers signed off the street but let,s blame eli

eagles 2 - the one eli pick i remember was a deflection by a d lineman that a lb made a diving catch on. that led to either a fg or nothing i forget. defense lost that game starting with phillips getting stuck in between tacking and intercepting the ball thrown to celek.

green bay - once again, defense was embarrassed. eli threw 1 pick in the first half on a miscommunication with nicks. i forget if it led to points or not. eli's last 3 picks, 2 were in garbage time, 1 that shouldnt have counted but we didnt have enough challenges. eli could have played flawless and we still would have lost.

so out of 6 losses, i will concede you can say the titans and first eagles game, eli's turnovers hurt the cause a decent amount in those games. the titans game the offense as a whole kept messing up so you cant put that L solely on eli's turnovers. then the eagles game eli is throwing to hagan and had a flukey fumble at the end which i still say contact was made with samuel so he should have been ruled down.

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 07:30 PM
Last thought on this just bc i feel its relvant. Diehard said eli bave people plenty of reasons to doubt and undervalue him...

I see it more of eli gave us plenty of reasons to see his awesome talent and bright future...

He gave me 31 reasons to doubt him in 2010, and thats only one season. There have been plenty of other massive blunders before then.

Maybe you've just blacked them out of your mind


And likewise, maybe uve blacked out all the positives that outweigh the negatives ten to one.

I always hear about these crazy homers that run rampant...aside from maybe five posters here, tops, and even then its debatable, these crazy homers calling ppl haters with vitriol and who say eli has no faults and who "black out"tho his negatives r more elusive than bigfoot. Maybe we could get ghost hunters on here to bring these alleged homers into view...

How long have you been watching this team? Serious question, and I will not attack your answer in any way. You joined here in Jan 2007.

Yes, there are a lot of positives about Eli's game, but 10-1? Thats a bit extreme, and inaccurate. He has improved dramatically in the past 3-4 years, but he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes and bad decisions every season. It is because of those bad mistakes and those dumb decisions that he doesn't get the kind of praise from the media, and his fellow NFL players, that a lot of folks here think he deserves. Those media types and NFL players, not to mention other posters on this message board(who shall remain nameless), are then all lumped together as a collective group of "haters". In other words, a LOT of people who get paid for their opinions, and those whom are peers of the man on the field, don't see him the way that you and others here do.

It just so happens that I can look at this team with an unbiased eye. Eli is a tremendous part of their recent success, and after all of those years between Simms leaving(and for the record, Simms was tough as hell, but average at best) and Eli being drafted, its great to be able to look forward to every season, knowing that the Giants have someone entrenched at QB who gives them a great chance to win every week. He is in fact a luxury, but again, he does make mistakes that make no sense at all for an almost 10 year veteran, and THAT is why those with an objective eye will never give him the massive amount of credit and praise that you obviously feel he deserves. I don't like the mental errors he makes, but it doesn't mean I hate the guy as our QB. Far from it

There is a huge difference between criticism and hatred. You'll be much better off when you figure that out.

since 88/89 u could say...pops is a fan and i was one as a kid. I followed pretty seriously in 96the maybe?

And since we got eli day one it rubbed alot the wrong way and his rookie yr added to that. Ive heard more critics of eli then defenders easily, both nfl wide and giants fanbase.

Ppl forget it wasnt until 2007 sb where ppl let up on him. Before that ppl were against the trade majorily easily...dunno round here but i remember when i joined that season was my rookie season on here and i never could believe how many straight disliked and opposed him. Nowadays its ludacris but that only goes to my point...ppl forget that ppl like me took a ton of **** for a longgggggway time...theres been one person and one person ever where i really rubbed it in and that was harooni lol but i was an internet newb and im sure ive apologized to rooni before but ill do it again, my bad for alotta those online battles

Edit.and double standard again dude. U say people who critique and are unbiased get lumped in as haters. Yet, soley bc i was actually write about eli, u have stated a lot of things and lumped me in unfairly...i am just an unbiased and informed and critical of the team as u...i was just corrext about eli. I guess one could even say bc of that i was able to keep an even more unbiased, open, fairly critical mind than u...but thatd be lumping u in with people unfairly so i wont say it

Flip Empty
06-10-2012, 07:33 PM
]Hah, I suppose. Shot myself in the foot there haha.

Yeah of course. You win and lose as a team. Eli's turnovers of course contributed, but they weren't the only factor.

And I'm not trying to slag off Eli -- far from it. I've always liked him and wouldn't want anyone else quarterbacking the Giants. I just see no wrong in acknowledging his faults.
Blindly defending every scrap of criticism directed at him is silly, quite frankly.
Eli's good -- great, even. But he's not that great. At least not yet.


On another note, Eli's dreadful 2010 season actually makes his 2011 performance more impressive. To bounce back in that fashion demonstrates how strong he is mentally.

I agree with most of that, but I think after this season Eli definitely put himself in the great category.

See, I don't think there was much of a bounce back needed, though. The only thing he really needed to to do was to not try to do everything on his own, to give up on a play if there was truly nothing there.

I just want to be assured that the days of the patented Diving Fumble™ and Left-handed Throw Attempt™ are a thing of the past.

Eli tried one of those left-handers in that Dallas game last year and was lucky not to get picked off.

He's certainly lessened those sorts of mistakes, but they're not completely gone.

EliTE
06-10-2012, 07:36 PM
I find 2010 to be one of Eli's more better seasons. I loved his play that year. He tailed off a bit when steve went down but that was due to him accomodating for a lack of talent and/or inconsistency in certain positions

Take a game Eli had 4 turnovers in -- like against dallas in dallas. That was one of the most absolutely incredible games I've seen of Eli's. Sure, he had 3 interceptions and a fumble? Yes. But that game was oustanding. The way Eli just kept diagnosing and destroying Wade phillips' coverages/schemes was nothing short of excellent. The execution was great and Eli just controlled and dominated at the line of scrimmage pre-snap. It was a surgical preformance that had everything from Eli. Accuracy, touch, his exceptional ability to play with his eyes, etc

But it was overshadowed by his 4 turnovers that day (2 of which bounced of receivers). Shame that people are looking past his 2010 season, mainly due to pure shallow ignorance. But nontheless, 2010 was an impressive year for Eli and showcased how he has been improving every year.

I agree completely. I wish more fans had a qb mentality where short memory is necessary in some regard. An int sucks in every way, but one bad pass ououtta 40 isnt gonna kill ya imo.
bad plays happen all the time. Missed tackles, drkpped passes, blown coverage/blocking...its about limiting them.
in that regard eli struggles with still somewhat and in 2010 pretty badly...that will kill a teams chances yet often his plqy was good enough to still lead us to a win...

Besides, 25 ints is an anomaly. He imrpoved/s every yr and that wont stop. But yeah nend i agree with ur stance he still perforned at a pretty high level even with some untimely passes


considering the o-line was constantly jumbled with injuries, as well as the receivers, eli had a very impressive year if you put the turnovers into context. he was top 5 in almost every qb stat category.

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 07:39 PM
Last thought on this just bc i feel its relvant. Diehard said eli bave people plenty of reasons to doubt and undervalue him...

I see it more of eli gave us plenty of reasons to see his awesome talent and bright future...

He gave me 31 reasons to doubt him in 2010, and thats only one season. There have been plenty of other massive blunders before then.

Maybe you've just blacked them out of your mind


And likewise, maybe uve blacked out all the positives that outweigh the negatives ten to one.

I always hear about these crazy homers that run rampant...aside from maybe five posters here, tops, and even then its debatable, these crazy homers calling ppl haters with vitriol and who say eli has no faults and who "black out"tho his negatives r more elusive than bigfoot. Maybe we could get ghost hunters on here to bring these alleged homers into view...

How long have you been watching this team? Serious question, and I will not attack your answer in any way. You joined here in Jan 2007.

Yes, there are a lot of positives about Eli's game, but 10-1? Thats a bit extreme, and inaccurate. He has improved dramatically in the past 3-4 years, but he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes and bad decisions every season. It is because of those bad mistakes and those dumb decisions that he doesn't get the kind of praise from the media, and his fellow NFL players, that a lot of folks here think he deserves. Those media types and NFL players, not to mention other posters on this message board(who shall remain nameless), are then all lumped together as a collective group of "haters". In other words, a LOT of people who get paid for their opinions, and those whom are peers of the man on the field, don't see him the way that you and others here do.

It just so happens that I can look at this team with an unbiased eye. Eli is a tremendous part of their recent success, and after all of those years between Simms leaving(and for the record, Simms was tough as hell, but average at best) and Eli being drafted, its great to be able to look forward to every season, knowing that the Giants have someone entrenched at QB who gives them a great chance to win every week. He is in fact a luxury, but again, he does make mistakes that make no sense at all for an almost 10 year veteran, and THAT is why those with an objective eye will never give him the massive amount of credit and praise that you obviously feel he deserves. I don't like the mental errors he makes, but it doesn't mean I hate the guy as our QB. Far from it

There is a huge difference between criticism and hatred. You'll be much better off when you figure that out.

since 88/89 u could say...pops is a fan and i was one as a kid. I followed pretty seriously in 96the maybe?

And since we got eli day one it rubbed alot the wrong way and his rookie yr added to that. Ive heard more critics of eli then defenders easily, both nfl wide and giants fanbase.

Ppl forget it wasnt until 2007 sb where ppl let up on him. Before that ppl were against the trade majorily easily...dunno round here but i remember when i joined that season was my rookie season on here and i never could believe how many straight disliked and opposed him. Nowadays its ludacris but that only goes to my point...ppl forget that ppl like me took a ton of **** for a longgggggway time...theres been one person and one person ever where i really rubbed it in and that was harooni lol but i was an internet newb and im sure ive apologized to rooni before but ill do it again, my bad for alotta those online battles

Edit.and double standard again dude. U say people who critique and are unbiased get lumped in as haters. Yet, soley bc i was actually write about eli, u have stated a lot of things and lumped me in unfairly...i am just an unbiased and informed and critical of the team as u...i was just corrext about eli. I guess one could even say bc of that i was able to keep an even more unbiased, open, fairly critical mind than u...but thatd be lumping u in with people unfairly so i wont say it

I think its alot about bc someone was wrong, they have to somehow apply some sort of reasoning to the person who was right to feel better about themself. Ie bc u were right about eli it must be bc ur a homer and dont critique him and pray to his picture and are biased and bc u dont critique eli and everyone else etc etc...seen those statements thrown around 10xmore than someone calling another a hater...its rare and usually it can acfually be warranted when someones on a troll mission

And it usually leads to "stop defending him"is for various somewhat ridiculous reasons but it usually goes back to a person not defending him when it actually mattered so maybe they dont want another to do it?

EliTE
06-10-2012, 07:46 PM
Last thought on this just bc i feel its relvant. Diehard said eli bave people plenty of reasons to doubt and undervalue him...

I see it more of eli gave us plenty of reasons to see his awesome talent and bright future...

He gave me 31 reasons to doubt him in 2010, and thats only one season. There have been plenty of other massive blunders before then.

Maybe you've just blacked them out of your mind


And likewise, maybe uve blacked out all the positives that outweigh the negatives ten to one.

I always hear about these crazy homers that run rampant...aside from maybe five posters here, tops, and even then its debatable, these crazy homers calling ppl haters with vitriol and who say eli has no faults and who "black out"tho his negatives r more elusive than bigfoot. Maybe we could get ghost hunters on here to bring these alleged homers into view...

How long have you been watching this team? Serious question, and I will not attack your answer in any way. You joined here in Jan 2007.

Yes, there are a lot of positives about Eli's game, but 10-1? Thats a bit extreme, and inaccurate. He has improved dramatically in the past 3-4 years, but he still makes a lot of dumb mistakes and bad decisions every season. It is because of those bad mistakes and those dumb decisions that he doesn't get the kind of praise from the media, and his fellow NFL players, that a lot of folks here think he deserves. Those media types and NFL players, not to mention other posters on this message board(who shall remain nameless), are then all lumped together as a collective group of "haters". In other words, a LOT of people who get paid for their opinions, and those whom are peers of the man on the field, don't see him the way that you and others here do.

It just so happens that I can look at this team with an unbiased eye. Eli is a tremendous part of their recent success, and after all of those years between Simms leaving(and for the record, Simms was tough as hell, but average at best) and Eli being drafted, its great to be able to look forward to every season, knowing that the Giants have someone entrenched at QB who gives them a great chance to win every week. He is in fact a luxury, but again, he does make mistakes that make no sense at all for an almost 10 year veteran, and THAT is why those with an objective eye will never give him the massive amount of credit and praise that you obviously feel he deserves. I don't like the mental errors he makes, but it doesn't mean I hate the guy as our QB. Far from it

There is a huge difference between criticism and hatred. You'll be much better off when you figure that out.

since 88/89 u could say...pops is a fan and i was one as a kid. I followed pretty seriously in 96the maybe?

And since we got eli day one it rubbed alot the wrong way and his rookie yr added to that. Ive heard more critics of eli then defenders easily, both nfl wide and giants fanbase.

Ppl forget it wasnt until 2007 sb where ppl let up on him. Before that ppl were against the trade majorily easily...dunno round here but i remember when i joined that season was my rookie season on here and i never could believe how many straight disliked and opposed him. Nowadays its ludacris but that only goes to my point...ppl forget that ppl like me took a ton of **** for a longgggggway time...theres been one person and one person ever where i really rubbed it in and that was harooni lol but i was an internet newb and im sure ive apologized to rooni before but ill do it again, my bad for alotta those online battles

Edit.and double standard again dude. U say people who critique and are unbiased get lumped in as haters. Yet, soley bc i was actually write about eli, u have stated a lot of things and lumped me in unfairly...i am just an unbiased and informed and critical of the team as u...i was just corrext about eli. I guess one could even say bc of that i was able to keep an even more unbiased, open, fairly critical mind than u...but thatd be lumping u in with people unfairly so i wont say itdo people still not understand the type of passing scheme the giants run? it's as if every turnover was simply a blunder by eli and not our o-line giving up a pressure, or a receiver running the wrong route or tipping a ball up in the air. the giants offense is very complex, in 2010 giants had all young receivers, steve smith was our most experienced guy and he got hurt. nicks missed time, we had to sign guys off the street to come in and play in this offense. far from ideal conditions to have a low turnover year. that year was a fluke regardless, so many tipped balls and unlucky bounces.

i remember seeing a stat that kept track of dropped interceptions and sanchez had like 13 or something. luck is part of any sport, eli and the giants had some bad luck that year.

Drez
06-10-2012, 07:46 PM
]Hah, I suppose. Shot myself in the foot there haha.

Yeah of course. You win and lose as a team. Eli's turnovers of course contributed, but they weren't the only factor.

And I'm not trying to slag off Eli -- far from it. I've always liked him and wouldn't want anyone else quarterbacking the Giants. I just see no wrong in acknowledging his faults.
Blindly defending every scrap of criticism directed at him is silly, quite frankly.
Eli's good -- great, even. But he's not that great. At least not yet.


On another note, Eli's dreadful 2010 season actually makes his 2011 performance more impressive. To bounce back in that fashion demonstrates how strong he is mentally.

I agree with most of that, but I think after this season Eli definitely put himself in the great category.

See, I don't think there was much of a bounce back needed, though. The only thing he really needed to to do was to not try to do everything on his own, to give up on a play if there was truly nothing there.

I just want to be assured that the days of the patented Diving Fumble™ and Left-handed Throw Attempt™ are a thing of the past.

Eli tried one of those left-handers in that Dallas game last year and was lucky not to get picked off.

He's certainly lessened those sorts of mistakes, but they're not completely gone.
Yeah, notice how he actually tried to slide a couple times this past season, lol. The lefthanded throw he's actually done several times over the years. The only one that I can remember getting picked off was in the Tennessee game, and even that one was nearly caught. Had Boss hung on to that, we'd have been talking about Eli's moxie, not his ineptitude.

I think Eli will generally have 13-16 picks a year. For better or worse, he has a gunslinger's mindset, so he will always make some risky throws as he trusts his arm and his receivers to make the plays (and when you combine that mindset with our offensive system) I think it'll be hard to keep his INT number under that.

Flip Empty
06-10-2012, 07:53 PM
]Hah, I suppose. Shot myself in the foot there haha.

Yeah of course. You win and lose as a team. Eli's turnovers of course contributed, but they weren't the only factor.

And I'm not trying to slag off Eli -- far from it. I've always liked him and wouldn't want anyone else quarterbacking the Giants. I just see no wrong in acknowledging his faults.
Blindly defending every scrap of criticism directed at him is silly, quite frankly.
Eli's good -- great, even. But he's not that great. At least not yet.


On another note, Eli's dreadful 2010 season actually makes his 2011 performance more impressive. To bounce back in that fashion demonstrates how strong he is mentally.

I agree with most of that, but I think after this season Eli definitely put himself in the great category.

See, I don't think there was much of a bounce back needed, though. The only thing he really needed to to do was to not try to do everything on his own, to give up on a play if there was truly nothing there.

I just want to be assured that the days of the patented Diving Fumble™ and Left-handed Throw Attempt™ are a thing of the past.

Eli tried one of those left-handers in that Dallas game last year and was lucky not to get picked off.

He's certainly lessened those sorts of mistakes, but they're not completely gone.
Yeah, notice how he actually tried to slide a couple times this past season, lol. The lefthanded throw he's actually done several times over the years. The only one that I can remember getting picked off was in the Tennessee game, and even that one was nearly caught. Had Boss hung on to that, we'd have been talking about Eli's moxie, not his ineptitude.

I think Eli will generally have 13-16 picks a year. For better or worse, he has a gunslinger's mindset, so he will always make some risky throws as he trusts his arm and his receivers to make the plays (and when you combine that mindset with our offensive system) I think it'll be hard to keep his INT number under that.

Haha, I held my breath every time he ran last season. It was always a relief when he slid.

People gave me so much **** for those fumbles from the previous year. I'm glad I got none this past season.

gumby742
06-10-2012, 07:55 PM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt.* There are those who like to point out past*mistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>


Oh c'mon now. Eli remains the single most entertaining topic to discuss mainly because it's great fun to see how butt hurt people get when Eli is questioned. The double standard that some Eli cheering section folks have for Eli is unbelievable.</P>


Right on cue.* I don't believe there was anyone on this board more wrong about Eli than you![:)]</P>


Well, maybe manningbowl.</P>

So exactly what was I wrong about? Funny thing is no one was able to even answer that.

gumby742
06-10-2012, 08:02 PM
Bc i was actually right about eli doesnt make me a homer, a person that gives no credit to the d or other players, doesnt mean i believe he has no faults, and i dont pray to his picture...which is what you said and implied.

U say ur wrong, cool. Dont care...dont care i was right besides having all this success and fun...doesnt mean i think ur a hater.
and usually that common understanding is never recipricated

I remember when I was a kid, I'd predict the Giants would win the SB every year no matter how good or bad a team we had. Finally, it happened. I was so proud that I ran around telling everyone, "I told you so, I was right." You being right about Eli is kind of like that.

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 09:04 PM
Bc i was actually right about eli doesnt make me a homer, a person that gives no credit to the d or other players, doesnt mean i believe he has no faults, and i dont pray to his picture...which is what you said and implied.

U say ur wrong, cool. Dont care...dont care i was right besides having all this success and fun...doesnt mean i think ur a hater.
and usually that common understanding is never recipricated

I remember when I was a kid, I'd predict the Giants would win the SB every year no matter how good or bad a team we had. Finally, it happened. I was so proud that I ran around telling everyone, "I told you so, I was right." You being right about Eli is kind of like that.

Thank u for proving yet another point. Just bc u were classically one of elis staunchest critics and feel wrong doesnt mean that u r such a genius for someone to get right what u feel u got wrong doesnt mean it was anywhere near ur example. Lmfao. So classic how some of these posts are perfect examples of what i mean...the only way someone could actually know more on a subject than u is for it to be some wild lucky, really the person is incorrect but got the correct answer luckily type of situation huh...

Btw, i did predict wed win it all last season and 07...didnt think we would the other yrs...;)

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 09:05 PM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt.* There are those who like to point out past*mistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>


Oh c'mon now. Eli remains the single most entertaining topic to discuss mainly because it's great fun to see how butt hurt people get when Eli is questioned. The double standard that some Eli cheering section folks have for Eli is unbelievable.</P>


Right on cue.* I don't believe there was anyone on this board more wrong about Eli than you![:)]</P>


Well, maybe manningbowl.</P>

So exactly what was I wrong about? Funny thing is no one was able to even answer that.

And yet still a strong majority believes u were wrong...

gumby742
06-10-2012, 09:41 PM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt.* There are those who like to point out past*mistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>


Oh c'mon now. Eli remains the single most entertaining topic to discuss mainly because it's great fun to see how butt hurt people get when Eli is questioned. The double standard that some Eli cheering section folks have for Eli is unbelievable.</P>


Right on cue.* I don't believe there was anyone on this board more wrong about Eli than you![:)]</P>


Well, maybe manningbowl.</P>

So exactly what was I wrong about? Funny thing is no one was able to even answer that.

And yet still a strong majority believes u were wrong...

Uhm. Up until last year, the "majority" thought Eli was a good QB, but was not quite up to par when compared to his peers. Only yourself and a handful of others thought Eli to be a top tier /"elite" QB. I suggest you don't bring up with that majority thinks if you're going to defend Eli.

Toadofsteel
06-10-2012, 09:47 PM
those turnovers did not cost us games. i'm sick of hearing that nonsense. the majority of eli's turnovers that year were either in games we won anyways, or in games that we would have lost either way. i remember specifically pointing that out to all the eli haters that year.

please cite some examples to back your claims that eli's turnovers cost us 2 or 3 games that year.... i'll be waiting.
Come on, not one loss that season came without at least one Eli turnover:

http://i.imgur.com/bXgyX.jpg

14 turnovers in games won
16 turnovers in games lost

http://www.nfl.com/player/elimanning/2505996/gamelogs?season=2010
Giving the numbers not in context is meaningless. Like the GB game, 3 of the picks came in the 4Q when it was obvious we weren't winning. Eli was about the only one that came to play that game. Or in 2Eagles, the pick came in the first or second quarter and subsequently we built a 31-10 lead that the defense and special teams pissed away. The last interception in 1Eagles was with well under a minute left and down 10.

Also, ELiTE's point was that a turnover by Eli wasn't the sole cause of any loss, that there were other things that played into it, too. Say to use DH's fumble in 1Eagles above, we can say the defense giving up a 50 yd TD on 4-1 after we tied the game up and started gaining momentum was as big a cause for that loss as any of Eli's turnovers (that play was also set up by a defensive offsides on 3-6, I think by JPP, where we stopped the Eagles which in turn set up a make-able and try-able 4-1).

Yes, Eli had a shockingly bad year for turnovers in '10. However, once you take away the flukey amount of tips and miscommunication picks (somewhere between 10-13), you aren't left with that many. And of those that are left, there aren't many where Eli just plain misread the defense, which would truly be concerning, but more that Eli just didn't want to give up on a play that he should have had. It was something that is/was easily worked upon. Troublesome, yes. Concerning, no.


I still don't see the point. Yes, Eli threw a lot of picks in 2010. But he fixed up his problem spot. That's what elite QB's do. I'm an Eli fan. I want to see him succeed. I enjoyed his performances this season. But the difference between a fan and a homer is this: a fan acknowledges the player's mistakes, and celebrates as the player improves. A homer will just say "Eli can Do No Wrong"...

Drez
06-10-2012, 10:04 PM
I still don't see the point. Yes, Eli threw a lot of picks in 2010. But he fixed up his problem spot. That's what elite QB's do. I'm an Eli fan. I want to see him succeed. I enjoyed his performances this season. But the difference between a fan and a homer is this: a fan acknowledges the player's mistakes, and celebrates as the player improves. A homer will just say "Eli can Do No Wrong"...

Who in this thread said Eli can do no wrong (besides ELiTE)?

Die-Hard
06-10-2012, 10:33 PM
I still don't see the point. Yes, Eli threw a lot of picks in 2010. But he fixed up his problem spot. That's what elite QB's do. I'm an Eli fan. I want to see him succeed. I enjoyed his performances this season. But the difference between a fan and a homer is this: a fan acknowledges the player's mistakes, and celebrates as the player improves. A homer will just say "Eli can Do No Wrong"...

Who in this thread said Eli can do no wrong (besides ELiTE)?


It has been implied for several months, and even years in some cases. Trust me, some people actually believe it. Going against them is pointless and will only result in facepalms and migraine headaches. Just smile, nod your head, agree with them, and move onto something of greater consequence. Everybody wins[:)]

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 10:51 PM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt.* There are those who like to point out past*mistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>


Oh c'mon now. Eli remains the single most entertaining topic to discuss mainly because it's great fun to see how butt hurt people get when Eli is questioned. The double standard that some Eli cheering section folks have for Eli is unbelievable.</P>


Right on cue.* I don't believe there was anyone on this board more wrong about Eli than you![:)]</P>


Well, maybe manningbowl.</P>

So exactly what was I wrong about? Funny thing is no one was able to even answer that.

And yet still a strong majority believes u were wrong...

Uhm. Up until last year, the "majority" thought Eli was a good QB, but was not quite up to par when compared to his peers. Only yourself and a handful of others thought Eli to be a top tier /"elite" QB. I suggest you don't bring up with that majority thinks if you're going to defend Eli.

eli was a good qb and produced as well if not better than most of his peers. this is true. he wasnt on the level of maybe 5 or so qbs.
i was patient in knowing one day soon hed be as good as any qb and could become the best.

and the thing is, i've never cared about the majority. thats why when people were running eli out of town, i figured, like most fair, rationale people, that ny/nj sports fans can be extremely quick to act, overreacting, impatient people thats the truth it just is.

im not gonna get into listing stats or things of that nature, bc u can produce ur own. its about interpreting that information. i, and others, saw excellent reason to know the future was bright, that he had the talent and potential of any qb, that he could play on that level for streaks, but also be less for streaks. hia first year starting, we went 11-5? the team hasnt looked back since.

lebron james took/takes alot of heat too no pun intended...no argument hes one of if not the best.

eli is in the same type of conversation topic. people have reason to hate, critique, and some with good reason. stilld oesnt detract i felt what would happen, did happen.

and for all your conversing and typical rhetoric, you will never be able to say such a thing, and it be true.

giantsfan420
06-10-2012, 10:58 PM
I still don't see the point. Yes, Eli threw a lot of picks in 2010. But he fixed up his problem spot. That's what elite QB's do. I'm an Eli fan. I want to see him succeed. I enjoyed his performances this season. But the difference between a fan and a homer is this: a fan acknowledges the player's mistakes, and celebrates as the player improves. A homer will just say "Eli can Do No Wrong"...

Who in this thread said Eli can do no wrong (besides ELiTE)?


thats the thing and my point, it almost never happens, but whenever the topic of eli is brought up in any shape or form, u usually get a couple of people who will use that as an excuse to try and get the convo stopped...

these crazy homers and all these things that are claimed to occur, almost never do, at least not imo. people get into fights and call each other names, but i never see t being about...

"oh yeah, well you dislike eli so your a *******"...its usually something personal. and when it does happen, it happens over any player, not just eli...i think me and u even got into something over something once didnt we drez? luckily i had the sense to realize i was being like one of those people i am talking about and apologize and u were cool about it too...

but sometimes i find it ironic, the people who usually are discussing eli, like really in depth past like stats and comparisons, are almost always the ones who say the dont want to discuss the topic

i mean obviously this thread is about eli. some of the posters who claim that its stupid and worthless and to stop, are the same posters who extended this thread for several pages

yoeddy
06-10-2012, 11:07 PM
All I know is that there isn't a QB in the league that I would trade straight up for Eli right now to be the QB of the Giants....

Drez
06-10-2012, 11:27 PM
I still don't see the point. Yes, Eli threw a lot of picks in 2010. But he fixed up his problem spot. That's what elite QB's do. I'm an Eli fan. I want to see him succeed. I enjoyed his performances this season. But the difference between a fan and a homer is this: a fan acknowledges the player's mistakes, and celebrates as the player improves. A homer will just say "Eli can Do No Wrong"...

Who in this thread said Eli can do no wrong (besides ELiTE)?


thats the thing and my point, it almost never happens, but whenever the topic of eli is brought up in any shape or form, u usually get a couple of people who will use that as an excuse to try and get the convo stopped...

these crazy homers and all these things that are claimed to occur, almost never do, at least not imo. people get into fights and call each other names, but i never see t being about...

"oh yeah, well you dislike eli so your a *******"...its usually something personal. and when it does happen, it happens over any player, not just eli...i think me and u even got into something over something once didnt we drez? luckily i had the sense to realize i was being like one of those people i am talking about and apologize and u were cool about it too...

but sometimes i find it ironic, the people who usually are discussing eli, like really in depth past like stats and comparisons, are almost always the ones who say the dont want to discuss the topic
I think we got into it around draft time... Can't really remember what about, but I can be an argumentative d-bag sometimes, lol. I try not to take things to heart when things get heated in an argument, even if colorful phrases get tossed about.

BTW, check your pm's.

gumby742
06-11-2012, 08:36 AM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt. There are those who like to point out pastmistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>


Oh c'mon now. Eli remains the single most entertaining topic to discuss mainly because it's great fun to see how butt hurt people get when Eli is questioned. The double standard that some Eli cheering section folks have for Eli is unbelievable.</P>


Right on cue. I don't believe there was anyone on this board more wrong about Eli than you![:)]</P>


Well, maybe manningbowl.</P>


So exactly what was I wrong about? Funny thing is no one was able to even answer that. And yet still a strong majority believes u were wrong... Uhm. Up until last year, the "majority" thought Eli was a good QB, but was not quite up to par when compared to his peers. Only yourself and a handful of others thought Eli to be a top tier /"elite" QB. I suggest you don't bring up with that majority thinks if you're going to defend Eli. eli was a good qb and produced as well if not better than most of his peers. this is true. he wasnt on the level of maybe 5 or so qbs. i was patient in knowing one day soon hed be as good as any qb and could become the best. and the thing is, i've never cared about the majority. thats why when people were running eli out of town, i figured, like most fair, rationale people, that ny/nj sports fans can be extremely quick to act, overreacting, impatient people thats the truth it just is. im not gonna get into listing stats or things of that nature, bc u can produce ur own. its about interpreting that information. i, and others, saw excellent reason to know the future was bright, that he had the talent and potential of any qb, that he could play on that level for streaks, but also be less for streaks. hia first year starting, we went 11-5? the team hasnt looked back since. lebron james took/takes alot of heat too no pun intended...no argument hes one of if not the best. eli is in the same type of conversation topic. people have reason to hate, critique, and some with good reason. stilld oesnt detract i felt what would happen, did happen. and for all your conversing and typical rhetoric, you will never be able to say such a thing, and it be true.</P>


Hey, whatever makes you feel good.Some people are easier to convince than others and some are the eternal optimists. And maybe I'm getting maybe yourself and the even more extremist burier mixed up, but I could have sworn you were saying Eli was, for lack of a better word, "elite" prior to last season. You know, when everyone was pretty much laughing at him for saying it.</P>


I would never say that Eli would someday be a great QB many years ago, especially whenhis first 5ish seasons were arguably average/above average. Absolutely no one would disagree with his enormous potential though.</P>

miked1958
06-11-2012, 10:24 AM
with all that has been said in this thread the bottom line is the guy has brought us 2 SBs. And i dont think we have seen the best of him yet</P>

Cool Papa B.
06-11-2012, 11:34 AM
On this forum I haven't heard that many people overrate Eli. There are some people-mainly Giants fans- who blow up Eli's skill as a QB out of proportion. But not many IMO.

From what I've seen and read from sports radio, articles and other fans in general, Eli is under appreciated. And then there are people like my brother-in-law who thinks he's in the bottom quarter of NFL QB's.

Eli, at this stage in his career- is a very good QB. Not great yet. Whether or not he will be great or on his way to the HoF is a discuss to be had in about 6-7 years. But one thing no one can deny is that Eli is clutch. Giants fan or not; Manning fan or not he has the ability to get the job done at the most pressured moments. Yes the D Line in SB XLII were the true MVP's, but the fact is Eli got the ball back on his own 17 yardline with 2:39 to play needing a TD to win. And he did it! And in SB 46 yes the defense kept him in the game, but they needed a score knowing that with just 3:45 left and the ball at their 12 yard line it was probably now or never if they didn't score. And in the first play of the drive he throws the perfect pass to his WR who makes the perfect catch.

And not even mentioning the playoff games against Dallas, Green Bay twice and the epic 49er game. Eli is overrated by most IMO. But no one can deny the dude is clutch. And not many QB's now or in the history of the game can say that

Joe Morrison
06-11-2012, 11:48 AM
On this forum I haven't heard that many people overrate Eli. There are some people-mainly Giants fans- who blow up Eli's skill as a QB out of proportion. But not many IMO. From what I've seen and read from sports radio, articles and other fans in general, Eli is under appreciated. And then there are people like my brother-in-law who thinks he's in the bottom quarter of NFL QB's. Eli, at this stage in his career- is a very good QB. Not great yet. Whether or not he will be great or on his way to the HoF is a discuss to be had in about 6-7 years. But one thing no one can deny is that Eli is clutch. Giants fan or not; Manning fan or not he has the ability to get the job done at the most pressured moments. Yes the D Line in SB XLII were the true MVP's, but the fact is Eli got the ball back on his own 17 yardline with 2:39 to play needing a TD to win. And he did it! And in SB 46 yes the defense kept him in the game, but they needed a score knowing that with just 3:45 left and the ball at their 12 yard line it was probably now or never if they didn't score. And in the first play of the drive he throws the perfect pass to his WR who makes the perfect catch. And not even mentioning the playoff games against Dallas, Green Bay twice and the epic 49er game. Eli is overrated by most IMO. But no one can deny the dude is clutch. And not many QB's now or in the history of the game can say that</P>


Still love it when Rivers, I've won nothing is rated above Eli while playing in the Grapefruit League with a bunch of losers, and still can't get it done.</P>


Eli is under rated, not over rated.</P>

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 01:07 PM
On this forum I haven't heard that many people overrate Eli. There are some people-mainly Giants fans- who blow up Eli's skill as a QB out of proportion. But not many IMO. From what I've seen and read from sports radio, articles and other fans in general, Eli is under appreciated. And then there are people like my brother-in-law who thinks he's in the bottom quarter of NFL QB's. Eli, at this stage in his career- is a very good QB. Not great yet. Whether or not he will be great or on his way to the HoF is a discuss to be had in about 6-7 years. But one thing no one can deny is that Eli is clutch. Giants fan or not; Manning fan or not he has the ability to get the job done at the most pressured moments. Yes the D Line in SB XLII were the true MVP's, but the fact is Eli got the ball back on his own 17 yardline with 2:39 to play needing a TD to win. And he did it! And in SB 46 yes the defense kept him in the game, but they needed a score knowing that with just 3:45 left and the ball at their 12 yard line it was probably now or never if they didn't score. And in the first play of the drive he throws the perfect pass to his WR who makes the perfect catch. And not even mentioning the playoff games against Dallas, Green Bay twice and the epic 49er game. Eli is overrated by most IMO. But no one can deny the dude is clutch. And not many QB's now or in the history of the game can say that</P>


Still love it when Rivers, I've won nothing is rated above Eli while playing in the Grapefruit League with a bunch of losers, and still can't get it done.</P>


Eli is under rated, not over rated.</P>

lol grapefruit agree...couldnt agree more with ur post.

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 01:10 PM
The sad thing is that a thread like this is now 6 pages long.</P>


Eli has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt.* There are those who like to point out past*mistakes (like he's the only QB in the league to make them) because we are all in love with our own opinions and have a problem giving them up.</P>


A lot of credit can go to the defense for his first SB win, but Eli and his recievers carried this team all the way to another one last season.</P>


The catch made by Manningham was brilliant......but the pass was perfection.</P>


Eli has arrived and talk of the past is just that.</P>


Oh c'mon now. Eli remains the single most entertaining topic to discuss mainly because it's great fun to see how butt hurt people get when Eli is questioned. The double standard that some Eli cheering section folks have for Eli is unbelievable.</P>


Right on cue.* I don't believe there was anyone on this board more wrong about Eli than you![:)]</P>


Well, maybe manningbowl.</P>


So exactly what was I wrong about? Funny thing is no one was able to even answer that. And yet still a strong majority believes u were wrong... Uhm. Up until last year, the "majority" thought Eli was a good QB, but was not quite up to par when compared to his peers. Only yourself and a handful of others thought Eli to be a top tier /"elite" QB. I suggest you don't bring up with that majority thinks if you're going to defend Eli. eli was a good qb and produced as well if not better than most of his peers. this is true. he wasnt on the level of maybe 5 or so qbs. i was patient in knowing one day soon hed be as good as any qb and could become the best. and the thing is, i've never cared about the majority. thats why when people were running eli out of town, i figured, like most fair, rationale people, that ny/nj sports fans can be extremely quick to act, overreacting, impatient people thats the truth it just is. im not gonna get into listing stats or things of that nature, bc u can produce ur own. its about interpreting that information. i, and others, saw excellent reason to know the future was bright, that he had the talent and potential of any qb, that he could play on that level for streaks, but also be less for streaks. hia first year starting, we went 11-5? the team hasnt looked back since. lebron james took/takes alot of heat too no pun intended...no argument hes one of if not the best. eli is in the same type of conversation topic. people have reason to hate, critique, and some with good reason. stilld oesnt detract i felt what would happen, did happen. and for all your conversing and typical rhetoric, you will never be able to say such a thing, and it be true.</P>


Hey, whatever makes you feel good.*Some people are easier to convince than others and some are the eternal optimists.* And maybe I'm getting maybe yourself and the even more extremist burier mixed up, but I could have sworn you were saying Eli was, for lack of a better word, "elite" prior to last season.* You know, when everyone was pretty much laughing at him for saying it.</P>


I would never say that Eli would someday be a great QB many years ago, especially when*his first 5ish seasons were arguably average/above average.* Absolutely no one would disagree with his enormous potential though.</P>

i did think eli was elite prior to last season. not all the time, but for the most part.

and the elite term is so subjective. to me the top 5-7 have always been elite, and the top 3 i labeled as the best...

i always maintained eli could be the best or one of the best...and its not whater makes me feel good...dont need anything else at this point. just saying i realize u have good reason for a lot of ur thoughts, but not all of em. and the ones i feel dont or didnt have merit were usually the points u discussed more than any and tried to hammer it home that u were right in something we disagreed on