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NYG4lifeNYK
06-11-2012, 12:32 AM
What a moron... <font color="#FF0000">great way to be ALL IN!</font>

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 12:34 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 01:18 AM
no way.

dd has been the epitome of giants football up until this incident. from what i know hes had a flawless off the field record and could have even been an example the fo wants others to follow.

this could be a freak occurrence imo. dd seems like the kinda guy who would take a cab or something. strikes me as someone who wouldnt get piss drunk and hit cars. maybe he just overdrank during the offseason and didnt realize it.

no way we cut him imo...in fact, something like this may just make dd work even harder bc he is that kinda guy. he works as hard as possible to detract all the detractors, another thing to the list could push him even more who knows

greenca190
06-11-2012, 01:34 AM
no way.

dd has been the epitome of giants football up until this incident. from what i know hes had a flawless off the field record and could have even been an example the fo wants others to follow.

this could be a freak occurrence imo. dd seems like the kinda guy who would take a cab or something. strikes me as someone who wouldnt get piss drunk and hit cars. maybe he just overdrank during the offseason and didnt realize it.

no way we cut him imo...in fact, something like this may just make dd work even harder bc he is that kinda guy. he works as hard as possible to detract all the detractors, another thing to the list could push him even more who knows

We really don't know a lick about the guy...

We perceive him to be a certain way when he's on the field, in interviews, etc. But why should we be surprised by this?

I root for David Diehl the offensive lineman. Not David Diehl the person.

Whatever the front office ends up deciding to do is the right decision.

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 02:10 AM
no way.

dd has been the epitome of giants football up until this incident. from what i know hes had a flawless off the field record and could have even been an example the fo wants others to follow.

this could be a freak occurrence imo. dd seems like the kinda guy who would take a cab or something. strikes me as someone who wouldnt get piss drunk and hit cars. maybe he just overdrank during the offseason and didnt realize it.

no way we cut him imo...in fact, something like this may just make dd work even harder bc he is that kinda guy. he works as hard as possible to detract all the detractors, another thing to the list could push him even more who knows

We really don't know a lick about the guy...

We perceive him to be a certain way when he's on the field, in interviews, etc. But why should we be surprised by this?

I root for David Diehl the offensive lineman. Not David Diehl the person.

Whatever the front office ends up deciding to do is the right decision.

is agree normally but with dd with his interviews and articles and the things ive read hes said, he just doesnt strike me as the kinda guy who would get plastered and hit 3 cars...
then again, when is it ever like that when it happens to people ud think it would

miked1958
06-11-2012, 02:32 AM
What a moron... <font color="#FF0000">great way to be ALL IN!</font>
There will for sure be some type of sanctions on him....penalties and suspension maybe

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 03:21 AM
no way.

dd has been the epitome of giants football up until this incident. from what i know hes had a flawless off the field record and could have even been an example the fo wants others to follow.

this could be a freak occurrence imo. dd seems like the kinda guy who would take a cab or something. strikes me as someone who wouldnt get piss drunk and hit cars. maybe he just overdrank during the offseason and didnt realize it.

no way we cut him imo...in fact, something like this may just make dd work even harder bc he is that kinda guy. he works as hard as possible to detract all the detractors, another thing to the list could push him even more who knows
It's possible that the team and/or league suspends him though. Say his replacement plays lights out and Diehl winds up on the bench..
Unlikely, sure, but not beyond the realm of possibility.
The Giants aren't ones for sentimentality.

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 03:27 AM
no way.

dd has been the epitome of giants football up until this incident. from what i know hes had a flawless off the field record and could have even been an example the fo wants others to follow.

this could be a freak occurrence imo. dd seems like the kinda guy who would take a cab or something. strikes me as someone who wouldnt get piss drunk and hit cars. maybe he just overdrank during the offseason and didnt realize it.

no way we cut him imo...in fact, something like this may just make dd work even harder bc he is that kinda guy. he works as hard as possible to detract all the detractors, another thing to the list could push him even more who knows
It's possible that the team and/or league suspends him though. Say his replacement plays lights out and Diehl winds up on the bench..
Unlikely, sure, but not beyond the realm of possibility.
The Giants aren't ones for sentimentality.

no way he gets suspended by the league at least, giants may and like i said in another post it may be a good idea bc we dontr want to change the locker room culture, we been pretty clean for a few years now a lil suspension would be a big warning to other players but i just dont see it

RichGiants81
06-11-2012, 03:33 AM
It's amazing how fickle most people are. Now everyone is ready to run the guy out of town. Screw that, he's a Giant through and through. Gave his all at every position he was asked to play. Never complained once. Dude has two rings with us. An all time great in this franchises history in my book.

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 03:48 AM
no way.

dd has been the epitome of giants football up until this incident. from what i know hes had a flawless off the field record and could have even been an example the fo wants others to follow.

this could be a freak occurrence imo. dd seems like the kinda guy who would take a cab or something. strikes me as someone who wouldnt get piss drunk and hit cars. maybe he just overdrank during the offseason and didnt realize it.

no way we cut him imo...in fact, something like this may just make dd work even harder bc he is that kinda guy. he works as hard as possible to detract all the detractors, another thing to the list could push him even more who knows
It's possible that the team and/or league suspends him though. Say his replacement plays lights out and Diehl winds up on the bench..
Unlikely, sure, but not beyond the realm of possibility.
The Giants aren't ones for sentimentality.

no way he gets suspended by the league at least, giants may and like i said in another post it may be a good idea bc we dontr want to change the locker room culture, we been pretty clean for a few years now a lil suspension would be a big warning to other players but i just dont see it
I don't see it either, I just don't like ruling out possibilities.

It's amazing how fickle most people are. Now everyone is ready to run the guy out of town. Screw that, he's a Giant through and through. Gave his all at every position he was asked to play. Never complained once. Dude has two rings with us. An all time great in this franchises history in my book.
Who's ready to run him out of town? People are just surprised and disappointed. I don't see anyone hating on him.

pino
06-11-2012, 04:42 AM
You couldn't get a cab Diehl?

RichGiants81
06-11-2012, 06:31 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger



There's a lot of people thinking this way, it's not right. What he does off the field is none of our business.

fizzlestick
06-11-2012, 06:46 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger



There's a lot of people thinking this way, it's not right. What he does off the field is none of our business.

How is it not right? Not only do I hope he gets cut, I hope he has to spend some time in jail.

easterbeast
06-11-2012, 08:03 AM
come on........i can understand the legal penaly......but cut him?????

he has a lot of time to redeem himself and nobody was hurt.

everybody drives drunk one time or another.......it just makes it more clear on the dangers involved.

lets not forget that booze screws up our judgement in a pretty serious way.

NY_Eli
06-11-2012, 08:15 AM
everybody drives drunk one time or another.......it just makes it more clear on the dangers involved.

Maybe you have, but I assure you 'everyone' hasn't.

And it's not a very good lesson if someone gets seriously hurt.

easterbeast
06-11-2012, 08:41 AM
everybody drives drunk one time or another.......it just makes it more clear on the dangers involved.

Maybe you have, but I assure you 'everyone' hasn't.

And it's not a very good lesson if someone gets seriously hurt.

ok....maybe i should have said "most people"
sorry i dont have the exact statistics in front of me

JimC
06-11-2012, 09:27 AM
If he has a drinking problem I'm sure the Giants will get him the help he needs. If it was an isolated incident then it was dumb, but not the end of the world and he will learn from this.

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 10:49 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Diehl, like McKenzie, will either be found or plead guilty. The team and the League will appropriately give him a pass as this is his first transgression.

Toadofsteel
06-11-2012, 11:12 AM
The team and the league might give him a pass, especially since nobody was hurt, but I didn't see him starting anyway. My predictions for the O-line were Beatty-Boothe-Baas-Snee-Brewer, prior to this event.

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 11:24 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

greenca190
06-11-2012, 11:30 AM
The team and the league might give him a pass, especially since nobody was hurt, but I didn't see him starting anyway. My predictions for the O-line were Beatty-Boothe-Baas-Snee-Brewer, prior to this event.

The killer beeeeezzzzz and sneeeeeeze

Morehead State
06-11-2012, 11:31 AM
DD is a great Giants and a great guy.</P>


lets be very careful in our stone throwing here. </P>


Glass houses and all.</P>


Of course I'm sure no one on the Giants MB ever had a few beers and drove home.</P>

NYGinIN
06-11-2012, 11:37 AM
What a moron... <font color="#FF0000">great way to be ALL IN!</font>


all in-toxicateddddd

hungrrrry
06-11-2012, 11:37 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger
Really??? a "complete disgrace"???...that's foolishness!

Though it was foolish for him to do this...hardly makes him even a partial disgrace!

I, obviously, don't support this kind of **** from players nor any ole Joe but to suggest a football player is any better or holier than thou is just stupid! Diehl made a mistake and will have to accept the consequences of that action...it's his problem to face...a short suspension of Diehl will suck but he is not a major key to our success, just a part.

The Giants players are rarely in such predicaments but when they are, it is best to support them getting past it as opposed to the negatives of condemming him, which doesn't do **** in the end!

Just "Diehl" with it...we have no choice!

Morehead State
06-11-2012, 11:39 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger
Really??? a "complete disgrace"???...that's foolishness! Though it was foolish for him to do this...hardly makes him even a partial disgrace! I, obviously, don't support this kind of **** from players nor any ole Joe but to suggest a football player is any better or holier than thou is just stupid! Diehl made a mistake and will have to accept the consequences of that action...it's his problem to face...a short suspension of Diehl will suck but he is not a major key to our success, just a part. The Giants players are rarely in such predicaments but when they are, it is best to support them getting past it as opposed to the negatives of condemming him, which doesn't do **** in the end! Just "Diehl" with it...we have no choice!</P>


The "moralistic outrage" we are seeing in this thread is the height of hypocrisy.</P>


That's the real disgrace here.</P>

Sundown
06-11-2012, 11:40 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Disgrace!!!? You got to be kidding me!!

CGYgiant
06-11-2012, 11:42 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger
Really??? a "complete disgrace"???...that's foolishness!

Though it was foolish for him to do this...hardly makes him even a partial disgrace!

I, obviously, don't support this kind of **** from players nor any ole Joe but to suggest a football player is any better or holier than thou is just stupid! Diehl made a mistake and will have to accept the consequences of that action...it's his problem to face...a short suspension of Diehl will suck but he is <font size="5">not a major key to our success, just a part</font>.

The Giants players are rarely in such predicaments but when they are, it is best to support them getting past it as opposed to the negatives of condemming him, which doesn't do **** in the end!

Just "Diehl" with it...we have no choice!

I wouldnt even go that far, Diehl was the worse starting tackle/guard in the league last year. Both pass blocking and run blocking. Surprised he is still on the roster to be honest. He would be a decent back up though.

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 11:46 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.

JesseJames
06-11-2012, 11:46 AM
before some of you people who are passing judgement on Diehl go too far you should all ask yourselves how many times you have driven home after having more drinks than you should have. I'm not saying he was right to do it but lets not burn him at the stake for it, he made a mistake and I'm sure there will be consequences but lets keep things in proper prospective...

Morehead State
06-11-2012, 11:48 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</P>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</P>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</P>

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 11:52 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake. As though none of us have ever made a mistake.

GMENAGAIN
06-11-2012, 11:55 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger
</P>


It has been my experience that the people whoexpress the most moral outrage about the actions of other people, are actually up to some prettyweird stuff themselves . . . . . </P>

dezzzR
06-11-2012, 11:55 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


<u>How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</u></p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>Check and mate.

Sundown
06-11-2012, 11:56 AM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake.* There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.*

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake.* As though none of us have ever made a mistake.


I've gotten a DUI, blew a .083; sorry humanity I've failed you all and disgraced the human race. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

JesseJames
06-11-2012, 12:00 PM
the only people passing harsh judgement on Diehl are tea totallers and hypocrites..

byron
06-11-2012, 12:02 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</P>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</P>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</P>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake. As though none of us have ever made a mistake.
yeah the wisdom is overwhelming at times

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 12:19 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.


gee i dont know, maybe cause he was driving a weapon impaired and could have killed multiple innocent civilians. good god you cant be serious

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 12:20 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger
</p>


It has been my experience that the people whoexpress the most moral outrage about the actions of other people, are actually up to some prettyweird stuff themselves . . . . . </p>

good, but im not going to defend this clowns actions.

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 12:22 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.

Err, I haven't done any of that so don't imply that I have.
I have zero tolerance for drink driving. I've seen the consequences of it too often.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 12:23 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake. As though none of us have ever made a mistake.


I've gotten a DUI, blew a .083; sorry humanity I've failed you all and disgraced the human race. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

with the casual attitude you describe it as, you would probably do it again

Mod_C
06-11-2012, 12:26 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake. As though none of us have ever made a mistake.


I've gotten a DUI, blew a .083; sorry humanity I've failed you all and disgraced the human race. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

with the casual attitude you describe it as, you would probably do it again


OK, you need to dial it back a notch or two.

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 12:28 PM
the only people passing harsh judgement on Diehl are tea totallers and hypocrites..
More the ones who are dismissing it as nothing.

RichGiants81
06-11-2012, 12:29 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

[

Calm down buddy. I don't condone drunk driving either, but he blew a 1.8.... He wasn't even close to being drunk

CGYgiant
06-11-2012, 12:30 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

[

Calm down buddy. I don't condone drunk driving either, but he blew a 1.8.... He wasn't even close to being drunk

Guess he was just a moron then, driving into a parked car and all.

RichGiants81
06-11-2012, 12:33 PM
He helped the team get two rings.. That's ALL that matters here. Time for him to help us repeat

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 12:36 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

[

Calm down buddy. I don't condone drunk driving either, but he blew a 1.8.... He wasn't even close to being drunk

Actually, he was legally drunk, twice over. 0.08 is the legal limit. In NYC 0.18 is considered "aggravated" which carries enhanced penalties.

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 12:37 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

[

Calm down buddy. I don't condone drunk driving either, but he blew a 1.8.... He wasn't even close to being drunk
Yet he managed to lose control of the vehicle?
I just dislike the casual attitude some people have toward it. People die because of that attitude.

Ugh, wrong forum to debate something like this. Can we just talk about football again?

RichGiants81
06-11-2012, 12:39 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.

Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

[

Legally drunk is two beers. You think 300lb dudes get impaired off of two or three beers??
Calm down buddy. I don't condone drunk driving either, but he blew a 1.8.... He wasn't even close to being drunk

Actually, he was legally drunk, twice over.* 0.08 is the legal limit.* In NYC* 0.18 is considered "aggravated" which carries enhanced penalties.

bELIeve_in_Giants
06-11-2012, 12:39 PM
I'm not going to act like a DWI where no one was hurt and a first time offense is the worst thing in the world. But at twice the legal limit and actually hitting cars, I'm not going to dismiss it either. He had no business driving and I hope this is a 1 time mistake and he realizes that he was lucky to not have caused any injuries. Glad it happened on a small street with a low speed limit rather than on the highway.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 12:39 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake. As though none of us have ever made a mistake.


I've gotten a DUI, blew a .083; sorry humanity I've failed you all and disgraced the human race. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

with the casual attitude you describe it as, you would probably do it again


OK, you need to dial it back a notch or two.


why so? when this story came out, you dont think its a hot button issue for many? if we arent alloweed to discuss the issue, delete the threads. im not trying to attack anyone, but im not having any tolerance for the ignorance of people that say this isnt a big deal. Im sure some of us have had people killed because of drunk driving. this isnt like debating going for it on a 4th down in november.

RichGiants81
06-11-2012, 12:40 PM
Legally drunk is two beers. You think 300lb dudes get impaired off of two or three beers??

Joe Morrison
06-11-2012, 12:42 PM
Let's be real, there should be no action taken against him by the GMEN, he has been a solid guy for years, got a little carried away, gee, I guess none of us ever did.</P>


Pay the fine and move on, put it behind you.</P>


I wonder how many DUI's were tallied up in NY ad NJ after the Superbowl, LOL.</P>

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 12:43 PM
-edit- misconstrued a post

Mod_C
06-11-2012, 12:44 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake. As though none of us have ever made a mistake.


I've gotten a DUI, blew a .083; sorry humanity I've failed you all and disgraced the human race. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

with the casual attitude you describe it as, you would probably do it again


OK, you need to dial it back a notch or two.


why so? when this story came out, you dont think its a hot button issue for many? if we arent alloweed to discuss the issue, delete the threads. im not trying to attack anyone, but im not having any tolerance for the ignorance of people that say this isnt a big deal. Im sure some of us have had people killed because of drunk driving. this isnt like debating going for it on a 4th down in november.


You can discuss the topic all you want, stop attacking posters. If you can manage that, all's well.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 12:44 PM
Let's be real, there should be no action taken against him by the GMEN, he has been a solid guy for years, got a little carried away, gee, I guess none of us ever did.</p>


Pay the fine and move on, put it behind you.</p>


I wonder how many DUI's were tallied up in NY ad NJ after the Superbowl, LOL.</p>

so its funny that people drove drunk after the super bowl? good to know

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 12:45 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake. As though none of us have ever made a mistake.


I've gotten a DUI, blew a .083; sorry humanity I've failed you all and disgraced the human race. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

with the casual attitude you describe it as, you would probably do it again


OK, you need to dial it back a notch or two.


why so? when this story came out, you dont think its a hot button issue for many? if we arent alloweed to discuss the issue, delete the threads. im not trying to attack anyone, but im not having any tolerance for the ignorance of people that say this isnt a big deal. Im sure some of us have had people killed because of drunk driving. this isnt like debating going for it on a 4th down in november.


You can discuss the topic all you want, stop attacking posters. If you can manage that, all's well.


my goal wasnt to attack the poster, im simply disagreeing with many's assessment that this is a small deal and not a big deal like many feel it is

bELIeve_in_Giants
06-11-2012, 12:46 PM
Let's be real, there should be no action taken against him by the GMEN, he has been a solid guy for years, got a little carried away, gee, I guess none of us ever did.</p>


Pay the fine and move on, put it behind you.</p>


I wonder how many DUI's were tallied up in NY ad NJ after the Superbowl, LOL.</p>

I'm sure a lot - but it's not something to LOL about. It's a problem.

Sundown
06-11-2012, 12:46 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake.* There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.*

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake.* As though none of us have ever made a mistake.


I've gotten a DUI, blew a .083; sorry humanity I've failed you all and disgraced the human race. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

with the casual attitude you describe it as, you would probably do it again


Wow ignorance is bliss!! There's only ONE person that can judge me and I know he's forgiven me. You on the other I couldn't careless. Your life must be perfect to be able to criticize others.

RichGiants81
06-11-2012, 12:47 PM
-edit- misconstrued a post

Maybe he was getting top while he was driving or maybe he was texting who knows and who cares

Mod_C
06-11-2012, 12:52 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger


Why is it a disgrace? He made a mistake.
Endangering lives is simply a mistake? There's no excuse for driving drunk. It's not like he can't afford a cab.

Yes, it's a mistake. There is no excuse which is what makes is stupid.

Every time you or I run a red light, stop sign, make an illegal U-Turn, jay walk, etc., we are endangering lives.
</p>


How many Ginats fans leave the parking lot after a game with an alcohol level over the legal limit?</p>


What a bunch of friggin hypocrits!</p>

It always amazes me to see all of the incoming salvos when someone makes a mistake. As though none of us have ever made a mistake.


I've gotten a DUI, blew a .083; sorry humanity I've failed you all and disgraced the human race. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

with the casual attitude you describe it as, you would probably do it again


OK, you need to dial it back a notch or two.


why so? when this story came out, you dont think its a hot button issue for many? if we arent alloweed to discuss the issue, delete the threads. im not trying to attack anyone, but im not having any tolerance for the ignorance of people that say this isnt a big deal. Im sure some of us have had people killed because of drunk driving. this isnt like debating going for it on a 4th down in november.


You can discuss the topic all you want, stop attacking posters. If you can manage that, all's well.


my goal wasnt to attack the poster, im simply disagreeing with many's assessment that this is a small deal and not a big deal like many feel it is


I sent you a PM

Joe Morrison
06-11-2012, 01:22 PM
Let's be real, there should be no action taken against him by the GMEN, he has been a solid guy for years, got a little carried away, gee, I guess none of us ever did.</P>


Pay the fine and move on, put it behind you.</P>


I wonder how many DUI's were tallied up in NY ad NJ after the Superbowl, LOL.</P>




I'm sure a lot - but it's not something to LOL about. It's a problem.
</P>


It's Reality, a mistake, bad mistake, luckily no one was injured, it's sounds to me like you have direct knowledge of these types of situations.</P>

bELIeve_in_Giants
06-11-2012, 01:28 PM
Let's be real, there should be no action taken against him by the GMEN, he has been a solid guy for years, got a little carried away, gee, I guess none of us ever did.</p>


Pay the fine and move on, put it behind you.</p>


I wonder how many DUI's were tallied up in NY ad NJ after the Superbowl, LOL.</p>




I'm sure a lot - but it's not something to LOL about. It's a problem.
</p>


It's Reality, a mistake, bad mistake, luckily no one was injured, it's sounds to me like you have direct knowledge of these types of situations.</p>

I agree that the Giants don't need to punish Diehl for a 1st time offense. I'm sure he feels badly and the courts will take care of it. I'm less sympathetic to repeated offenders.

I don't like that people take DUI's lightly when there's some sort of "good reason" for it like a celebration. Drink all you want to celebrate - but not when you are driving. It's not any cuter just because people were celebrating.

Morehead State
06-11-2012, 02:00 PM
To those "mortified" posters. No one is saying that driving drunk is "no big deal". But to say that DD is now some kind of disgrace to humanity is WAY over the top. </P>


Most of us in our lives have had a few too many and gotten behind the wheel. Is it right?...Absolutely not. But the moral indignance here is rediculous. Its like some of you are c suggesting he is now one step above child molester.</P>


The guy is guilty (if indeed he IS guilty, because all we have are reports in the media) of making a very bad judgement and ultimately that could endanger people. I drive too fast. That is also dangerous I guess. I just can't stand the moral judgements being made by a few posters here.</P>


Its hypocrisy to the Nth degree.</P>

Sundown
06-11-2012, 02:12 PM
To those "mortified" posters.* No one is saying that driving drunk is "no big deal".* But to say that DD is now some kind of disgrace to humanity is WAY over the top. </P>


Most of us in our lives have had a few too many and gotten behind the wheel.* Is it right?...Absolutely not.* But the moral igdignance here is rediculous.* Its like some of you are c* suggesting he is now one step above child molester.</P>


The guy is guilty (if indeed he IS guilty, because all we have are reports in the media) of making a very bad judgement and ultimately that could endanger people.* I drive too fast.* That is also dangerous I guess.* I just can't stand the moral judgements being made by a few posters here.</P>


Its hypocrisy to the Nth degree.</P>

Two thumbs up!

GMENAGAIN
06-11-2012, 03:03 PM
As I said earlier, it always seems that the people who scream the loudestabout the morality of other people's actions are the ones with skeletons in their own closets (sometimes literally).</P>


I would give 50/50 odds that jppmvp90 has at least one human body part in his freezer . . . . . </P>

JesseJames
06-11-2012, 06:05 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

bELIeve_in_Giants
06-11-2012, 06:17 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

I have never done either. I'm very careful to only drink if I've not driving. I'm kind of disturbed by the number of people on the board who seem to assume "everyone does it"

That said, I hope that no one comes down too hard on Diehl as a first time offender and I hope he learned his lesson.

BlueReign
06-11-2012, 06:31 PM
I'm just happy he didn't hurt anyone, himself included. I don't think NYG/NFL will punish him as it is his first offense, but I do hope the law cracks down somewhat, maybe suspend his license and slap a fine on him.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 06:35 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

I have never done either. I'm very careful to only drink if I've not driving. I'm kind of disturbed by the number of people on the board who seem to assume "everyone does it"

That said, I hope that no one comes down too hard on Diehl as a first time offender and I hope he learned his lesson.


agreed, it saddens and scares me that people think now drunk driving is fine and a cool thing to do.

since55
06-11-2012, 06:47 PM
DD is a great Giants and a great guy.</P>


lets be very careful in our stone throwing here.* </P>


Glass houses and all.</P>


Of course I'm sure no one on the Giants MB ever had a few beers and drove home.</P>

I'm not sure you should equate having a few beers and driving home with getting drunk and driving your car into three parked cars.

JesseJames
06-11-2012, 06:55 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

I have never done either.* I'm very careful to only drink if I've not driving.* I'm kind of disturbed by the number of people on the board who seem to assume "everyone does it"

That said, I hope that no one comes down too hard on Diehl as a first time offender and I hope he learned his lesson.


agreed, it saddens and scares me that people think now drunk driving is fine and a cool thing to do.
nobody on this board said it was a cool thing to do, its just an unfortunate thing, Diehl is a good person who made a mistake in judgement and doesn't deserve to be hung for it...

giantsforce
06-11-2012, 07:10 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger



There's a lot of people thinking this way, it's not right. What he does off the field is none of our business.Right on! So if he goes on and kills someone because he is drunk that would be OK according to your logic! Of course it is our business. Drunks are a danger to society.

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:12 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

I have never done either. I'm very careful to only drink if I've not driving. I'm kind of disturbed by the number of people on the board who seem to assume "everyone does it"

That said, I hope that no one comes down too hard on Diehl as a first time offender and I hope he learned his lesson.


agreed, it saddens and scares me that people think now drunk driving is fine and a cool thing to do.


That's not what people are saying at all. It was a stupid thing to do, it always is. And it happens more than we know because most drunk drivers don't get caught. But being arrested for DUI doesn't undo who someone is as a person.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 07:13 PM
Drunks are a danger to society.


lol. Man Ive been drunk plenty of times and I was never a danger to anyone.

gmen0820
06-11-2012, 07:20 PM
Why would the team take action against Diehl, his first offense?

Can't say I agree that we should transform the mood of the locker room from family to harsh business.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:22 PM
Why would the team take action against Diehl, his first offense?

Can't say I agree that we should transform the mood of the locker room from family to harsh business.

so just tell him dont do it again and move on according to you? sure that will get the point across well

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:22 PM
Why would the team take action against Diehl, his first offense?

Can't say I agree that we should transform the mood of the locker room from family to harsh business.

They won't as they didn't with McKenzie for the same infraction.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:25 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:25 PM
Why would the team take action against Diehl, his first offense?

Can't say I agree that we should transform the mood of the locker room from family to harsh business.

so just tell him dont do it again and move on according to you? sure that will get the point across well


I'm pretty sure he's "gotten the point" already and, just to be sure, he will be found guilty if he doesn't plead out, his driving privilege will be suspended in NY, and possibly NJ if they have reciprocal agreements, and his reputation had taken a significant hit. The Team and the League will let the legal system do its job.

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:26 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?

Drez
06-11-2012, 07:27 PM
Why would the team take action against Diehl, his first offense?

Can't say I agree that we should transform the mood of the locker room from family to harsh business.

so just tell him dont do it again and move on according to you? sure that will get the point across well


I'm pretty sure he's "gotten the point" already and, just to be sure, he will be found guilty if he doesn't plead out, his driving privilege will be suspended in NY, and possibly NJ if they have reciprocal agreements, and his reputation had taken a significant hit. The Team and the League will let the legal system do its job.

RF, do yourself a favor and just give up trying to have a rational discussion about this with him. He's incapable of doing so.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:29 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2

fizzlestick
06-11-2012, 07:30 PM
Why would the team take action against Diehl, his first offense?

Can't say I agree that we should transform the mood of the locker room from family to harsh business.

so just tell him dont do it again and move on according to you? sure that will get the point across well


I'm pretty sure he's "gotten the point" already and, just to be sure, he will be found guilty if he doesn't plead out, his driving privilege will be suspended in NY, and possibly NJ if they have reciprocal agreements, and his reputation had taken a significant hit. The Team and the League will let the legal system do its job.

RF, do yourself a favor and just give up trying to have a rational discussion about this with him. He's incapable of doing so.


Because he has a different opinion than you? I agree with everything hes said.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 07:30 PM
An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


why should diehl be made an example? as oppossed to the other dozen or so players who have recently gotten dui's?

Because hes a giant?

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:31 PM
An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


why should diehl be made an example? as oppossed to the other dozen or so players who have recently gotten dui's?

Because hes a giant?

i could care less how other teams handle their problem players. I care about this situation. An example needs to be made. Unfortunate that this needs to be made out of Diehl, but nobody told him to pass out at the wheel and ram into multiple cars

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:34 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?

Drez
06-11-2012, 07:34 PM
Why would the team take action against Diehl, his first offense?

Can't say I agree that we should transform the mood of the locker room from family to harsh business.

so just tell him dont do it again and move on according to you? sure that will get the point across well


I'm pretty sure he's "gotten the point" already and, just to be sure, he will be found guilty if he doesn't plead out, his driving privilege will be suspended in NY, and possibly NJ if they have reciprocal agreements, and his reputation had taken a significant hit. The Team and the League will let the legal system do its job.

RF, do yourself a favor and just give up trying to have a rational discussion about this with him. He's incapable of doing so.


Because he has a different opinion than you? I agree with everything hes said.

No, because he's actually incapable of having a rational discussion about this topic.

Drez
06-11-2012, 07:34 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?

I'm going to go with curb painter.

Drez
06-11-2012, 07:35 PM
An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


why should diehl be made an example? as oppossed to the other dozen or so players who have recently gotten dui's?

Because hes a giant?

i could care less how other teams handle their problem players. I care about this situation. An example needs to be made. Unfortunate that this needs to be made out of Diehl, but nobody told him to pass out at the wheel and ram into multiple cars

Then we have KMack to use as an example.............

gmen0820
06-11-2012, 07:35 PM
Why would the team take action against Diehl, his first offense?

Can't say I agree that we should transform the mood of the locker room from family to harsh business.

so just tell him dont do it again and move on according to you? sure that will get the point across well
What is this "point" you are referring to? The no-tolerance, harsh business environment I was alluding to in my post?

Because if so, clearly I don't agree with you -- and henceforth see no reason for you to try to convince me other ways with sarcastic/condescending replies. If you want to provide me solid reasons to change my opinion, I'm open minded, and I will listen. Shoot.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 07:38 PM
i could care less how other teams handle their problem players. I care about this situation.* An example needs to be made. Unfortunate that this needs to be made out of Diehl, but nobody told him to pass out at the wheel and ram into multiple cars


So its not about setting an example for the rest of the NFL, just the giants?

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:39 PM
i could care less how other teams handle their problem players. I care about this situation. An example needs to be made. Unfortunate that this needs to be made out of Diehl, but nobody told him to pass out at the wheel and ram into multiple cars


So its not about setting an example for the rest of the NFL, just the giants?

is this a giants message board or an nfl board? If you want to discuss how the dolphins punish their players, head over to their board. Im discussing the giants over here.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:40 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?

I'm going to go with curb painter.


go ahead and throw out insults now. your true colors come out in the end.

gmen0820
06-11-2012, 07:40 PM
i could care less how other teams handle their problem players. I care about this situation.* An example needs to be made. Unfortunate that this needs to be made out of Diehl, but nobody told him to pass out at the wheel and ram into multiple cars


So its not about setting an example for the rest of the NFL, just the giants?http://www.colourbox.com/preview/3655124-501664-man-setting-up-trap.jpg

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 07:40 PM
is this a giants message board or an nfl board? If you want to discuss how the dolphins punish their players, head over to their board.* Im discussing the giants over here.


You said Diehl needed to be made an example of, I asked an example for who.

For you? For the NFL? For everyone in the US? For canada?

What

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:41 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:42 PM
is this a giants message board or an nfl board? If you want to discuss how the dolphins punish their players, head over to their board. Im discussing the giants over here.


You said Diehl needed to be made an example of, I asked an example for who.

You want him made an example of for just the other giants players?

If the NFL wants to punish him as well then thats their choice. Id have no issue if both the NFL and the NYG made an example of him

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 07:43 PM
If the NFL wants to punish him as well then thats their choice. Id have no issue if both the NFL and the NYG made an example of him


So why should the NFL make an example of Diehl, and not the other dozen or so players recently arrested for a DUI?

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:44 PM
If the NFL wants to punish him as well then thats their choice. Id have no issue if both the NFL and the NYG made an example of him


So why should the NFL make an example of Diehl, and not the other dozen or so players recently arrested for a DUI?

well they have to start somewhere. I believe there were a few others who got dui's last week. Make an example of them all. Just make Diehl the tipping point to change.

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:45 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 07:45 PM
Just make Diehl the tipping point to change.


Why should Diehl be the tipping point?

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:48 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?


what did i do? if i committed a crime as serious as diehl did, im sure id be suspended for more than "looking bad" but rather endangering society

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 07:48 PM
Just make Diehl the tipping point to change.


Why should Diehl be the tipping point?

its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 07:49 PM
its like a chain.* One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done.* Not my fault he drove drunk last night.*


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:49 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?


what did i do? if i committed a crime as serious as diehl did, im sure id be suspended for more than "looking bad" but rather endangering society


So you want to society to punish Diehl and then top it off with an additional punishment from his employer? Why?

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:53 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?


what did i do? if i committed a crime as serious as diehl did, im sure id be suspended for more than "looking bad" but rather endangering society


What Diehl did, in NYC, is a misdemeanor and there are prescribed punishments for that. Fine, possible imprisonment, loss of driving privilege for a period of time and possibly a loss of his license in NJ for a period of time. This is his first offense of any kind of which we are aware. Do you have no faith in the justice system or is that just not enough?

fizzlestick
06-11-2012, 07:54 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?


what did i do? if i committed a crime as serious as diehl did, im sure id be suspended for more than "looking bad" but rather endangering society


So you want to society to punish Diehl and then top it off with an additional punishment from his employer? Why?


Because he deserves it.

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 07:55 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?


what did i do? if i committed a crime as serious as diehl did, im sure id be suspended for more than "looking bad" but rather endangering society


So you want to society to punish Diehl and then top it off with an additional punishment from his employer? Why?


Because he deserves it.


What does he deserve?

gmen0820
06-11-2012, 08:08 PM
....Okay, someone respond lol

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:14 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:15 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?


what did i do? if i committed a crime as serious as diehl did, im sure id be suspended for more than "looking bad" but rather endangering society


So you want to society to punish Diehl and then top it off with an additional punishment from his employer? Why?


because he drove into multiple cars and endangered innocent civilians? make an example of him and let it be known this is totally inexcusable behavior.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 08:15 PM
because his happened most recent.*

So a week ago, I assume you were outraged by the most recent DUI then and were pushing for that player to be made an example of?

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:16 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?


what did i do? if i committed a crime as serious as diehl did, im sure id be suspended for more than "looking bad" but rather endangering society


What Diehl did, in NYC, is a misdemeanor and there are prescribed punishments for that. Fine, possible imprisonment, loss of driving privilege for a period of time and possibly a loss of his license in NJ for a period of time. This is his first offense of any kind of which we are aware. Do you have no faith in the justice system or is that just not enough?


the justice system is a complete fraud. im not even going to get into this because it will lead places that dont belong on this board

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:16 PM
because his happened most recent.

So a week ago, I assume you were outraged by the most recent DUI then and were pushing for that player to be made an example of?

any one of these athletes that commit this crime should be punished severely and swiftly. first time or 10th time. enough is enough

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 08:16 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 08:17 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?


Im a 22 year old college senior majoring in media and communications and host a radio show. No problem revealing my age or what i do. If you wanted to know, there



OK, so to level the playing field I carried a gun and badge for 35 years.

You get arrested for something unrelated to your job. A local newspaper picks up on it and finds a 6" space empty on page 3. Your boss reads the paper and wants to suspend you because "it looks bad." Fair?


what did i do? if i committed a crime as serious as diehl did, im sure id be suspended for more than "looking bad" but rather endangering society


What Diehl did, in NYC, is a misdemeanor and there are prescribed punishments for that. Fine, possible imprisonment, loss of driving privilege for a period of time and possibly a loss of his license in NJ for a period of time. This is his first offense of any kind of which we are aware. Do you have no faith in the justice system or is that just not enough?


the justice system is a complete fraud. im not even going to get into this because it will lead places that dont belong on this board



Well there you have it.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 08:19 PM
[r>any one of these athletes that commit this crime should be punished severely and swiftly. first time or 10th time. enough is enough


You are just going in circles now. You have made no argument at all.

Why is it Diehl is the one to be made an example of? What about Diehl's situation is different that requires him being made an example of?

Why were you not posting a week ago about the players that were then arrested for DUIs saying they should be made examples of?

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:20 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently because they arent public, prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:22 PM
[r&gt;any one of these athletes that commit this crime should be punished severely and swiftly. first time or 10th time. enough is enough


You are just going in circles now. You have made no argument at all.

Why is it Diehl is the one to be made an example of? What about Diehl's situation is different that requires him being made an example of?

Why were you not posting a week ago about the players that were then arrested for DUIs saying they should be made examples of?

i told you i dont care about how other teams handle their players. Im concerned with Diehl right now. He did the crime, so pay the time. You seem to have a very difficult time understanding how serious it is what he did. I guess your just another one who condones his behavior

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 08:22 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:23 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 08:24 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:27 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 08:30 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there


It's been a trip, have a great evening.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 08:33 PM
if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over.* Im not even going there


that logic actually causes more problems, not fewer.

If the law cant decide on proper punishments, who can? The NFL? The giants? You?

And who makes the decisions that those punishments are proper?

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 08:35 PM
its like a chain.* One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done.* Not my fault he drove drunk last night.*


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent.* Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars.* I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public.** What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over.* Im not even going there


It's been a* trip, have a great evening.


Roanoke, this guy is just a troll who happens to not be funny. They are an overzealous and spiteful fool who doesn't understand the law. You can't say "the common doctor gets a year and the celebrity gets 10". People like JPPMVP90 are why figures like Demi Lovato cut themselves and have eating disorders.

Drez
06-11-2012, 08:46 PM
just mind boggling the things people are saying. Really sad and disgusting


What is it you'd like to see happen to Diehl?


An example needs to be made that this is unacceptable. give him a game or 2


What do you do for a living, generally speaking?

I'm going to go with curb painter.


go ahead and throw out insults now. your true colors come out in the end.

You're right. That was uncalled for and I apologize for throwing out an insult.

Delicreep
06-11-2012, 08:47 PM
its like a chain.* One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done.* Not my fault he drove drunk last night.*


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent.* Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars.* I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public.** What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over.* Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

RoanokeFan
06-11-2012, 08:51 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

Well said and I hope you're well.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 08:54 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

one of the few posters with any moral character on this board. God Bless You

Drez
06-11-2012, 08:55 PM
JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

Very well articulated, Deli. Very sorry to hear of your plights, but glad to see that you've somehow taken something positive out of it.

Drez
06-11-2012, 08:58 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

one of the few posters with any moral character on this board. God Bless You


You do realize that he said nearly the same thing as most of us had, save for the part about being struck by a drunk driver, right?

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 09:00 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

one of the few posters with any moral character on this board. God Bless You


You do realize that he said nearly the same thing as most of us had, save for the part about being struck by a drunk driver, right?


i have respect for what hes been through. I respect him. I have no respect for people like you who choose insults over the internet to get their point across

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 09:01 PM
one of the few posters with any moral character on this board.* God Bless You


This was never even a moral argument to begin with.

Nobody here argued that drunk driving wasent wrong. Nobody argued that Diehl's decisions or actions were the right one.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 09:04 PM
its like a chain.* One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done.* Not my fault he drove drunk last night.*


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent.* Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars.* I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public.** What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over.* Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

one of the few posters with any moral character on this board.* God Bless You


You do realize that he said nearly the same thing as most of us had, save for the part about being struck by a drunk driver, right?


i have respect for what hes been through. I respect him. I have no respect for people like you who choose insults over the internet to get their point across


Like what you are doing about Diehl and the rest of us? How many responses on this board have you started by calling another poster an idiot?

Delicreep
06-11-2012, 09:06 PM
Thanks for the well wishes...it was a long time ago and life moves on.

Doing fine today; most men my age have their share of aches and pains and issues

Drez
06-11-2012, 09:06 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

one of the few posters with any moral character on this board. God Bless You


You do realize that he said nearly the same thing as most of us had, save for the part about being struck by a drunk driver, right?


i have respect for what hes been through. I respect him. I have no respect for people like you who choose insults over the internet to get their point across

And if you see, I apologized for that. But, then again, you don't seem the forgiving type.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 09:09 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

one of the few posters with any moral character on this board. God Bless You


You do realize that he said nearly the same thing as most of us had, save for the part about being struck by a drunk driver, right?


i have respect for what hes been through. I respect him. I have no respect for people like you who choose insults over the internet to get their point across


Like what you are doing about Diehl and the rest of us? How many responses on this board have you started by calling another poster an idiot?

this coming from a guy who said he wants lebron james to drop dead. you're cool man

Sundown
06-11-2012, 09:26 PM
Cant believe this guy is still defending his clueless thoughts on this subject.

NYGRealityCheck
06-11-2012, 09:38 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

Then i'll cast the first stone saying there actually are law-abiding people out there that do not even foolishly take a chance like that.

If Diehl gets jail time/community service that causes him to miss some team practices, should the Giants be allowed to take some action against that?

Drez
06-11-2012, 09:42 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

Then i'll cast the first stone saying there actually are law-abiding people out there that do not even foolishly take a chance like that.
However, can you make the distinction between someone who did something very dumb and didn't hurt anyone and someone who has?

GmenFan1980
06-11-2012, 09:44 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger



There's a lot of people thinking this way, it's not right. What he does off the field is none of our business.

How is it not right? Not only do I hope he gets cut, I hope he has to spend some time in jail.


http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/friday_gif_collection_05.gif?w=360&h=270

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 09:47 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger



There's a lot of people thinking this way, it's not right. What he does off the field is none of our business.

you are as clueless as they come

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 09:47 PM
its like a chain.* One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done.* Not my fault he drove drunk last night.*


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent.* Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars.* I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public.** What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over.* Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

one of the few posters with any moral character on this board.* God Bless You


You do realize that he said nearly the same thing as most of us had, save for the part about being struck by a drunk driver, right?


i have respect for what hes been through. I respect him. I have no respect for people like you who choose insults over the internet to get their point across


Like what you are doing about Diehl and the rest of us? How many responses on this board have you started by calling another poster an idiot?

this coming from a guy who said he wants lebron james to drop dead. you're cool man

Half of the NBA wants him to drop dead... The entire city of Cleveland would love to hang him up and cut him limb from limb. However, I apologized for saying that.
Lebron is an infinitely bigger dirtbag than David Diehl.
I am an admitted jerk. You are a bigger jerk than me.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 09:50 PM
its like a chain. One thing happens, then it continues and continues until ultimately something has to be done. Not my fault he drove drunk last night.


yes, we know nfl players keep getting DUIs.

But you didnt answer my question.

Why should Diehl be the tipping point.

because his happened most recent. Something has to be done and an example has to be made of all of these morons


What about the doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers, teachers, priests, rabbis, ministers, etc., who have also done this once?


i mentioned earlier. they are treated differently <font color="#0000FF">because they arent public,</font> prominent figures like athletes and celebrities are. They dont have millions upon millions of dollars. I dont agree that they should be treated differently, but thats how it works


Every one of those professions is very public. What does their net worth have to do with anything?


so your going to compare david diehl to the local doctor? i respect you and for what you say you have done in your profession, but please, lets be serious


In the eyes of the law, they are identical.


if your arguing to say that all cases involving these people are decided by the law, then this conversation is over. Im not even going there


JPP,

Full disclosure--been hit by a drunk driver and it changed my life in ways that are hard to explain.

It took me the better part of a decade to come to a larger understanding of of the frailty of humans, and how the best of us will make, with no malice, a potentially horrifying decision.

Somewhere between your absolute condemnation and the 'nobody got hurt so it's OK' attitude is place in which many things fall.

I would submit that a really bad decision, made while drunk and full of adrenaline, falls in that area.

He gets punished as is consistent with his actions, and he can choose to redeem himself and possible pay back to society at large--that is how a man is measured.

And I would suggest that you consider how you measure yourself--it's easy to draw in black and white and give no quarter; much harder to accept how truly flawed man can be; harder still to allow a man who has offended your senses a chance to set things right

one of the few posters with any moral character on this board. God Bless You


You do realize that he said nearly the same thing as most of us had, save for the part about being struck by a drunk driver, right?


i have respect for what hes been through. I respect him. I have no respect for people like you who choose insults over the internet to get their point across


Like what you are doing about Diehl and the rest of us? How many responses on this board have you started by calling another poster an idiot?

this coming from a guy who said he wants lebron james to drop dead. you're cool man

Half of the NBA wants him to drop dead... The entire city of Cleveland would love to hang him up and cut him limb from limb. However, I apologized for saying that.
Lebron is an infinitely bigger dirtbag than David Diehl.
I am an admitted jerk. You are a bigger jerk than me.

lebron has never committed a crime like diehl has. and for you to say half the league wants him dead is as dumb a statement as anything ive ever heard. as far as calling me a jerk, thats fine, id rather be a jerk than the despicable human being you appear to be. hope you have no kids

NYGRealityCheck
06-11-2012, 09:51 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

Then i'll cast the first stone saying there actually are law-abiding people out there that do not even foolishly take a chance like that.
However, can you make the distinction between someone who did something very dumb and didn't hurt anyone and someone who has?


It's not about whether someone gets hurt or not. What's wrong with never driving drunk or never bringing a loaded gun to a club like Burress? The moral of these stories is: Don't even take the chance. You're almost always going to hurt yourself in some way. In Plexico's case, it was physically.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 09:51 PM
If you guys are going to quote each other, at least delete the quotes inside the quote.

Only getting like 3 replies a page at this point

Drez
06-11-2012, 10:01 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

Then i'll cast the first stone saying there actually are law-abiding people out there that do not even foolishly take a chance like that.
However, can you make the distinction between someone who did something very dumb and didn't hurt anyone and someone who has?


It's not about whether someone gets hurt or not. What's wrong with never driving drunk or never bringing a loaded gun to a club like Burress? The moral of these stories is: Don't even take the chance.
Do we not judge things by their actual outcomes and not just their potential outcomes? No one is claiming that what DD wasn't stupid and wrong. However, it isn't in fact as wrong than as if he had struck and hit a person, solely for the fact that he did not strike and hit a person.

For example, would you consider Plax as stupid had his gun not fired (say he had it properly holstered or the safety on), but later found out he had been carrying an unlicensed firearm? You'd still say it's dumb and he shouldn't have done it, but not quite as harshly had you had with what had actually happened.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 10:01 PM
lebron has never committed a crime like diehl has.* and for you to say half the league wants him dead is as dumb a statement as anything ive ever heard.* as far as calling me a jerk, thats fine, id rather be a jerk than the despicable human being you appear to be. hope you have no kids


And if you do I suggest you not fight me in person like you said you were willing to do on the other thread. Why risk that if you have kids. Is that the example you are trying to set your children?

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 10:04 PM
For example, would you consider Plax as stupid had his gun not fired (say he had it properly holstered or the safety on), but later found out he had been carrying an unlicensed firearm? You'd still say it's dumb and he shouldn't have done it, but not quite as harshly had you had with what had actually happened.


Plax thing is different. The firing of the gun was never really an issue at all, except that that is what got him caught.

Shooting yourself in the leg isnt a crime. Perfectly legal. What is illegal is having an unregistered handgun in NYC.

jppmvp90
06-11-2012, 10:08 PM
lebron has never committed a crime like diehl has. and for you to say half the league wants him dead is as dumb a statement as anything ive ever heard. as far as calling me a jerk, thats fine, id rather be a jerk than the despicable human being you appear to be. hope you have no kids


And if you do I suggest you not fight me in person like you said you were willing to do on the other thread. Why risk that if you have kids. Is that the example you are trying to set your children?

i feel very very badly for you. you obviously have a serious drinking problem as you admitted earlier. I suppose you are heavily intoxicated at this point as well due to the fact you have made up false statements about me over the past hour. I hope to god you dont have children as i fear they will be without a father due to poor judgement on your part. good luck and get help

Drez
06-11-2012, 10:10 PM
For example, would you consider Plax as stupid had his gun not fired (say he had it properly holstered or the safety on), but later found out he had been carrying an unlicensed firearm? You'd still say it's dumb and he shouldn't have done it, but not quite as harshly had you had with what had actually happened.


Plax thing is different. The firing of the gun was never really an issue at all, except that that is what got him caught.

Shooting yourself in the leg isnt a crime. Perfectly legal. What is illegal is having an unregistered handgun in NYC.
In this case we aren't necessarily talking about the legal ramifications of the actions but rather how one makes a moral judgement based upon the outcomes of those actions.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 10:12 PM
In this case we aren't necessarily talking about the legal ramifications of the actions but rather how one makes a moral judgement based upon the outcomes of those actions.


Well, from a pure moral standpoint, the only thing that can be judged is the outcome. Driving drunk, by itself, is not immoral.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 10:15 PM
lebron has never committed a crime like diehl has.* and for you to say half the league wants him dead is as dumb a statement as anything ive ever heard.* as far as calling me a jerk, thats fine, id rather be a jerk than the despicable human being you appear to be. hope you have no kids


And if you do I suggest you not fight me in person like you said you were willing to do on the other thread. Why risk that if you have kids. Is that the example you are trying to set your children?

i feel very very badly for you.* you obviously have a serious drinking problem as you admitted earlier. I suppose you are heavily intoxicated at this point as well due to the fact you have made up false statements about me over the past hour. I hope to god you dont have children as i fear they will be without a father due to poor judgement on your part. good luck and get help


I'm completely sober. I don't have a drinking problem. I tend to drink a lot on Friday nights like most single dudes. I feel bad for your kids man. You seem like the kind of Dad that has kids that end up getting knocked up at 14 and end up in jail. The best part about being single and not having kids is I don't have to settle down. I don't have to be a role model. I never wanted that responsibility because I travel too much to really be a family man and I love working and teaching too much to give it up. I don't have to explain myself to you. God speed. May the stick leave where the sun aint shining.

NYGRealityCheck
06-11-2012, 10:23 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

Then i'll cast the first stone saying there actually are law-abiding people out there that do not even foolishly take a chance like that.
However, can you make the distinction between someone who did something very dumb and didn't hurt anyone and someone who has?


It's not about whether someone gets hurt or not. What's wrong with never driving drunk or never bringing a loaded gun to a club like Burress? The moral of these stories is: Don't even take the chance.
Do we not judge things by their actual outcomes and not just their potential outcomes? No one is claiming that what DD wasn't stupid and wrong. However, it isn't in fact as wrong than as if he had struck and hit a person, solely for the fact that he did not strike and hit a person.

For example, would you consider Plax as stupid had his gun not fired (say he had it properly holstered or the safety on), but later found out he had been carrying an unlicensed firearm? You'd still say it's dumb and he shouldn't have done it, but not quite as harshly had you had with what had actually happened.


The media judges things by their outcome and they'll have a blast with it as we all know. Parents or proper up-bringing prevent us from even having potential outcomes. As to the level of wrongness you're talking about, yes, that depends on the outcome. But the stupidity part, which we're agreeing on, is puttting one's self in the position where something wrong can happen. No one's perfect, but trying not to be stupid doesn't hurt.

If Diehl drove home drunk without a problem, we wouldn't have known that and everything would have been fine except Diehl was still being stupid. Unforunately, Diehl got arrested. The media caught wind of that, blew the story up (probably on NFL.com already) and here we have a couple of threads with multiple pages discussing the issue. See how it works? :)

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 10:27 PM
The media judges things by their outcome

So does everyone, the legal system, the public.

NYGRealityCheck
06-11-2012, 10:28 PM
The media judges things by their outcome

So does everyone, the legal system, the public.

I don't want to go deep on this, but yes I agree. :)

Don't get me wrong. Being drunk is perfectly fine. It's being drunk and trying to operate a vehicle or putting yourself and/or other people in danger that is the problem.

If I were David Diehl at a bar, I'd be trying to get some ladies with his stature. (personal opinion) lol

Mod_C
06-11-2012, 10:41 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger



There's a lot of people thinking this way, it's not right. What he does off the field is none of our business.

you are as clueless as they come


We've talked about this before. Just make your point(s).

Mod_C
06-11-2012, 10:42 PM
lebron has never committed a crime like diehl has. and for you to say half the league wants him dead is as dumb a statement as anything ive ever heard. as far as calling me a jerk, thats fine, id rather be a jerk than the despicable human being you appear to be. hope you have no kids


And if you do I suggest you not fight me in person like you said you were willing to do on the other thread. Why risk that if you have kids. Is that the example you are trying to set your children?

i feel very very badly for you. you obviously have a serious drinking problem as you admitted earlier. I suppose you are heavily intoxicated at this point as well due to the fact you have made up false statements about me over the past hour. I hope to god you dont have children as i fear they will be without a father due to poor judgement on your part. good luck and get help


That's it.

Drez
06-11-2012, 10:54 PM
In this case we aren't necessarily talking about the legal ramifications of the actions but rather how one makes a moral judgement based upon the outcomes of those actions.


Well, from a pure moral standpoint, the only thing that can be judged is the outcome. Driving drunk, by itself, is not immoral.
I'd say by itself, that it is. That's why we feel that someone is doing wrong by driving drunk even if nothing happens (due to the potential of harm to others property and/or persons). But, in that case, we cast our moral judgement more against the action than the agent. If something happens, then we cast a second moral judgement against the agent.

In this particular case, we all think that DD did something wrong and have found that he has committed a morally reproachable act. The degree of reproach is dictated by the outcome (at least for most of us). He hit some cars and got caught. That means to most of us, considering it was the first instance of this behavior from him, that he ought not be dealt with too harshly. Personally speaking, I will be fine with whatever legal judgement he faces. So long as Goodell doesn't go ape****, I'll be fine with whatever the league decides to do (I'm thinking a 1-4 game suspension depending on the legal outcome).

Mod_C
06-11-2012, 10:56 PM
PLEASE, make your points without attacking each other.

Drez
06-11-2012, 10:58 PM
let me just say this, let those of you who have never driven after drinking a little too much or while texting cast the first stone....

Then i'll cast the first stone saying there actually are law-abiding people out there that do not even foolishly take a chance like that.
However, can you make the distinction between someone who did something very dumb and didn't hurt anyone and someone who has?


It's not about whether someone gets hurt or not. What's wrong with never driving drunk or never bringing a loaded gun to a club like Burress? The moral of these stories is: Don't even take the chance.
Do we not judge things by their actual outcomes and not just their potential outcomes? No one is claiming that what DD wasn't stupid and wrong. However, it isn't in fact as wrong than as if he had struck and hit a person, solely for the fact that he did not strike and hit a person.

For example, would you consider Plax as stupid had his gun not fired (say he had it properly holstered or the safety on), but later found out he had been carrying an unlicensed firearm? You'd still say it's dumb and he shouldn't have done it, but not quite as harshly had you had with what had actually happened.


The media judges things by their outcome and they'll have a blast with it as we all know. Parents or proper up-bringing prevent us from even having potential outcomes. As to the level of wrongness you're talking about, yes, that depends on the outcome. But the stupidity part, which we're agreeing on, is puttting one's self in the position where something wrong can happen. No one's perfect, but trying not to be stupid doesn't hurt.

If Diehl drove home drunk without a problem, we wouldn't have known that and everything would have been fine except Diehl was still being stupid. Unforunately, Diehl got arrested. The media caught wind of that, blew the story up (probably on NFL.com already) and here we have a couple of threads with multiple pages discussing the issue. See how it works? :)
Yes, we all agree that what Diehl did was unbelievably dumb. However, almost everyone thinks that jppmvp90's moral outrage at the situation is a few notches too high.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 10:59 PM
I'd say by itself, that it is.

My definition of morality, is being allowed to do whatever you want to do, as long as it does not infringe upon anothers right to do the same.

By that definition, driving drunk is not immoral, in fact largely the opposite. It is a completely moral act in it of itself.

When that act infringes upon another's rights to live, to be healthy, etc then it becomes immoral.

Driving drunk in the middle of the country when you are the only person around for miles? I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Worst case scenario you kill yourself. Which is not immoral. Stupid perhaps, but not immoral.

The issue with what Diehl did was that he was driving through NYC streets, where potentially there are plenty of people he could have injured or killed. That makes the act immoral.

NYGRealityCheck
06-11-2012, 10:59 PM
In this case we aren't necessarily talking about the legal ramifications of the actions but rather how one makes a moral judgement based upon the outcomes of those actions.


Well, from a pure moral standpoint, the only thing that can be judged is the outcome. Driving drunk, by itself, is not immoral.
I'd say by itself, that it is. That's why we feel that someone is doing wrong by driving drunk even if nothing happens (due to the potential of harm to others property and/or persons). But, in that case, we cast our moral judgement more against the action than the agent. If something happens, then we cast a second moral judgement against the agent.

In this particular case, we all think that DD did something wrong and have found that he has committed a morally reproachable act. The degree of reproach is dictated by the outcome (at least for most of us). He hit some cars and got caught. That means to most of us, considering it was the first instance of this behavior from him, that he ought not be dealt with too harshly. Personally speaking, I will be fine with whatever legal judgement he faces. So long as Goodell doesn't go ape****, I'll be fine with whatever the league decides to do (I'm thinking a 1-4 game suspension depending on the legal outcome).


I don't think Goodell will care to much about these issues yet. Diehl will be fine. I don't think suspensions are necessary in this case. I don't see how Diehl can get it worse than Blackmon.

Here's an article from the media already calling for the NFL to have their own stiffer penalties for NFL players caught for DUI in addition to the legal system. See how it works?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/11/nfl-still-needs-stiffer-dui-penalties/

VegasGmen
06-11-2012, 11:10 PM
I'd say by itself, that it is. My definition of morality, is being allowed to do whatever you want to do, as long as it does not infringe upon anothers right to do the same. By that definition, driving drunk is not immoral, in fact largely the opposite. It is a completely moral act in it of itself. When that act infringes upon another's rights to live, to be healthy, etc then it becomes immoral. Driving drunk in the middle of the country when you are the only person around for miles? I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Worst case scenario you kill yourself. Which is not immoral. Stupid perhaps, but not immoral. The issue with what Diehl did was that he was driving through NYC streets, where potentially there are plenty of people he could have injured or killed. That makes the act immoral.</P>


Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?</P>

Drez
06-11-2012, 11:11 PM
I'd say by itself, that it is.

My definition of morality, is being allowed to do whatever you want to do, as long as it does not infringe upon anothers right to do the same.

By that definition, driving drunk is not immoral, in fact largely the opposite. It is a completely moral act in it of itself.

When that act infringes upon another's rights to live, to be healthy, etc then it becomes immoral.

Driving drunk in the middle of the country when you are the only person around for miles? I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Worst case scenario you kill yourself. Which is not immoral. Stupid perhaps, but not immoral.

The issue with what Diehl did was that he was driving through NYC streets, where potentially there are plenty of people he could have injured or killed. That makes the act immoral.

Driving drunk does not happen in a vacuum, though. If the only thing in between the bar DD left and his home was empty land that absolutely no one could potentially enter, then yes, it wouldn't be an immoral act. However, even in this scenario in the parking lot he'd have an opportunity to harm another or another's property. Which makes it a morally reproachable act, even if only minutely so.

But, the fact is, there were plenty of people and people's property between points A and B. That means there is plenty of opportunity for Diehl's decision to drive drunk to infringe upon another's right to not be accosted by his actions.

In fact, the Millean sphere of self-regarding actions is a very small one given the social nature of humanity. Almost everything we do has an impact upon another.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:12 PM
I'd say by itself, that it is. My definition of morality, is being allowed to do whatever you want to do, as long as it does not infringe upon anothers right to do the same. By that definition, driving drunk is not immoral, in fact largely the opposite. It is a completely moral act in it of itself. When that act infringes upon another's rights to live, to be healthy, etc then it becomes immoral. Driving drunk in the middle of the country when you are the only person around for miles? I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Worst case scenario you kill yourself. Which is not immoral. Stupid perhaps, but not immoral. The issue with what Diehl did was that he was driving through NYC streets, where potentially there are plenty of people he could have injured or killed. That makes the act immoral.</P>


Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?</P>
Depends on the eye of the beholder. Everything is relative. Suicide IMO is a personal choice. What about people who are very sick and in more pain than is fathomable and will die eventually no matter what? You put down your dog, why not put down a human who is ready to go?

Side note: Why are we getting into philosophy in a football board? They have philosophy message boards...

Drez
06-11-2012, 11:13 PM
I'd say by itself, that it is. My definition of morality, is being allowed to do whatever you want to do, as long as it does not infringe upon anothers right to do the same. By that definition, driving drunk is not immoral, in fact largely the opposite. It is a completely moral act in it of itself. When that act infringes upon another's rights to live, to be healthy, etc then it becomes immoral. Driving drunk in the middle of the country when you are the only person around for miles? I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Worst case scenario you kill yourself. Which is not immoral. Stupid perhaps, but not immoral. The issue with what Diehl did was that he was driving through NYC streets, where potentially there are plenty of people he could have injured or killed. That makes the act immoral.</p>


Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?</p>
Doing something that puts your life at risk and committing suicide are two different things. And honestly, suicide is a moral grey area as far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying that I think people should commit suicide, but I don't think every case of it is immoral.

Drez
06-11-2012, 11:14 PM
Why are we getting into philosophy in a football board? They have philosophy message boards...
Uncultured Philistine!

<font size="6">[B]</font>

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:17 PM
>Driving drunk does not happen in a vacuum, though. If the only thing in between the bar DD left and his home was empty land that absolutely no one could potentially enter, then yes, it wouldn't be an immoral act.

Doesnt need to be in a vacuum, there are plenty of places where drunk driving is in fact legal, and not even frowned upon. Also there are plenty of places where one could drive drunk and never threaten anyone elses life. Heck, ever been to kansas or nebraska? I think you could drive drunk for two days and not see another person, or even a tree for that matter.



However, even in this scenario in the parking lot he'd have an opportunity to harm another or another's property. Which makes it a morally reproachable act, even if only minutely so.

But, the fact is, there were plenty of people and people's property between points A and B. That means there is plenty of opportunity for Diehl's decision to drive drunk to infringe upon another's right to not be accosted by his actions.

I agree with that.


*In fact, the Millean sphere of self-regarding actions is a very small one given the social nature of humanity. Almost everything we do has an impact upon another.


Have to be careful, its not about merely having an effect on others. Its about infringing their rights to do as they wish.

Now if we are going to go into the economics of things and externalities and such, then we have a different argument, and its not a moral one, or if it is, becomes just shades of grey instead of black and white.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:18 PM
Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?</P>

There is nothing at all immoral about taking ones own life.

Taking ones own life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives.

Suicide is also not a crime in any state in the US.

VegasGmen
06-11-2012, 11:20 PM
I'd say by itself, that it is. My definition of morality, is being allowed to do whatever you want to do, as long as it does not infringe upon anothers right to do the same. By that definition, driving drunk is not immoral, in fact largely the opposite. It is a completely moral act in it of itself. When that act infringes upon another's rights to live, to be healthy, etc then it becomes immoral. Driving drunk in the middle of the country when you are the only person around for miles? I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Worst case scenario you kill yourself. Which is not immoral. Stupid perhaps, but not immoral. The issue with what Diehl did was that he was driving through NYC streets, where potentially there are plenty of people he could have injured or killed. That makes the act immoral.</P>


Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?</P>


Depends on the eye of the beholder. Everything is relative. Suicide IMO is a personal choice. What about people who are very sick and in more pain than is fathomable and will die eventually no matter what? You put down your dog, why not put down a human who is ready to go? Side note: Why are we getting into philosophy in a football board? They have philosophy message boards...</P>


Morality is goodness and accepted behavior in society. I get your point about being sick and fully think that when it is in a desperate situation that taking of ones life is a morally acceptable act. To willingly get drunk and crash your car or take 1's life with no regard to the other loved ones around him/her is in my opinion a morally reprehensible act. </P>

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:22 PM
Morality is goodness and accepted behavior in society.

Very much disagree on your definition. Being "accepted" very much does not make something moral.

Popular opinion is not even a valid argument, certainly not a useful guide for morality.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:23 PM
I'd say by itself, that it is. My definition of morality, is being allowed to do whatever you want to do, as long as it does not infringe upon anothers right to do the same. By that definition, driving drunk is not immoral, in fact largely the opposite. It is a completely moral act in it of itself. When that act infringes upon another's rights to live, to be healthy, etc then it becomes immoral. Driving drunk in the middle of the country when you are the only person around for miles? I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Worst case scenario you kill yourself. Which is not immoral. Stupid perhaps, but not immoral. The issue with what Diehl did was that he was driving through NYC streets, where potentially there are plenty of people he could have injured or killed. That makes the act immoral.</P>


Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?</P>


Depends on the eye of the beholder. Everything is relative. Suicide IMO is a personal choice. What about people who are very sick and in more pain than is fathomable and will die eventually no matter what? You put down your dog, why not put down a human who is ready to go? Side note: Why are we getting into philosophy in a football board? They have philosophy message boards...</P>


Morality is goodness and accepted behavior in society. I get your point about being sick and fully think that when it is in a desperate situation that taking of ones life is a morally acceptable act. To willingly get drunk and crash your car or take 1's life with no regard to the other loved ones around him/her is in my opinion a morally reprehensible act. </P>
Morality is relative to the individual, that is why we elect representatives in the USA to collectively agree upon a set code for society. Just because the representatives force it upon someone does not make the person immoral for disagreeing with it. They just shouldn't act on it or else there will be consequences.

IE if someone doesn't think it's bad to kill people but their society does, that person should be able to talk about how killing is okay and be able to say what he/she wants about it. However, the majority will punish him/her if he acts upon those feelings. To him, he is guilty of something that isn't wrong. To society it is.

Drez
06-11-2012, 11:24 PM
Have to be careful, its not about merely having an effect on others. Its about infringing their rights to do as they wish.

Now if we are going to go into the economics of things and externalities and such, then we have a different argument, and its not a moral one, or if it is, becomes just shades of grey instead of black and white.

But, it is about having an effect on others. If we are going to use the SRS, we must also use utilitarian calculus which takes into account all the happiness and sadness an action creates.

And this thread has now officially jumped the shark, lol.

VegasGmen
06-11-2012, 11:25 PM
Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?


</P>


There is nothing at all immoral about taking ones own life. Taking ones own life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives. Suicide is also not a crime in any state in the US.</P>


Are you serious that taking ones life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives!!! Do you have any loved ones in your life? Do you not think that if you commit suicide that your loved ones will not be seriously impacted by that act? Get a clue Slip!! I feel bad for those who love you.</P>

BigBlue1971
06-11-2012, 11:28 PM
complete disgrace, wonder if his roster spots in danger
</P>


</P>


Burress was a disgrace! Diehlmade astupid mistakeby notthinking and in some ways he will suffer greatly from it!</P>


he is a great Giant and always will be regardless of what happens because of this. </P>


</P>

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:28 PM
Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?


</P>


There is nothing at all immoral about taking ones own life. Taking ones own life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives. Suicide is also not a crime in any state in the US.</P>


Are you serious that taking ones life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives!!! Do you have any loved ones in your life? Do you not think that if you commit suicide that your loved ones will not be seriously impacted by that act? Get a clue Slip!! I feel bad for those who love you.</P>

Guys, this board isn't for philosophy.

VegasGmen
06-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Morality is goodness and accepted behavior in society. Very much disagree on your definition. Being "accepted" very much does not make something moral. Popular opinion is not even a valid argument, certainly not a useful guide for morality.</P>


Check the definition.</P>

Drez
06-11-2012, 11:29 PM
I'd say by itself, that it is. My definition of morality, is being allowed to do whatever you want to do, as long as it does not infringe upon anothers right to do the same. By that definition, driving drunk is not immoral, in fact largely the opposite. It is a completely moral act in it of itself. When that act infringes upon another's rights to live, to be healthy, etc then it becomes immoral. Driving drunk in the middle of the country when you are the only person around for miles? I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Worst case scenario you kill yourself. Which is not immoral. Stupid perhaps, but not immoral. The issue with what Diehl did was that he was driving through NYC streets, where potentially there are plenty of people he could have injured or killed. That makes the act immoral.</p>


Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?</p>


Depends on the eye of the beholder. Everything is relative. Suicide IMO is a personal choice. What about people who are very sick and in more pain than is fathomable and will die eventually no matter what? You put down your dog, why not put down a human who is ready to go? Side note: Why are we getting into philosophy in a football board? They have philosophy message boards...</p>


Morality is goodness and accepted behavior in society. I get your point about being sick and fully think that when it is in a desperate situation that taking of ones life is a morally acceptable act. To willingly get drunk and crash your car or take 1's life with no regard to the other loved ones around him/her is in my opinion a morally reprehensible act. </p>
Morality is relative to the individual, that is why we elect representatives in the USA to collectively agree upon a set code for society. Just because the representatives force it upon someone does not make the person immoral for disagreeing with it. They just shouldn't act on it or else there will be consequences.

IE if someone doesn't think it's bad to kill people but their society does, that person should be able to talk about how killing is okay and be able to say what he/she wants about it. However, the majority will punish him/her if he acts upon those feelings. To him, he is guilty of something that isn't wrong. To society it is.

I've had a couple too many (Sunday and Monday is my Friday and Saturday... Don't judge me too harshly!) to fully uncompact why what you said is mostly wrong. Morality may be uncodifiable, but it isn't relative to the agent.

ShakeNBake
06-11-2012, 11:31 PM
Morality is goodness and accepted behavior in society.

Very much disagree on your definition. Being "accepted" very much does not make something moral.

Popular opinion is not even a valid argument, certainly not a useful guide for morality.

What one deems to be moral can be completely different from the next person, and this is exactly why popular opinion or society's perception is what dictates morality.

VegasGmen
06-11-2012, 11:31 PM
Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?


</P>


There is nothing at all immoral about taking ones own life. Taking ones own life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives. Suicide is also not a crime in any state in the US.</P>


Are you serious that taking ones life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives!!! Do you have any loved ones in your life? Do you not think that if you commit suicide that your loved ones will not be seriously impacted by that act? Get a clue Slip!! I feel bad for those who love you.</P>


Guys, this board isn't for philosophy.</P>


True sorry bout that .... going to pour myself a martini and relax in my house. No driving!</P>

ShakeNBake
06-11-2012, 11:33 PM
Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?


</p>


There is nothing at all immoral about taking ones own life. Taking ones own life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives. Suicide is also not a crime in any state in the US.</p>


Are you serious that taking ones life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives!!! Do you have any loved ones in your life? Do you not think that if you commit suicide that your loved ones will not be seriously impacted by that act? Get a clue Slip!! I feel bad for those who love you.</p>

Guys, this board isn't for philosophy.

Its for cursing at people and challenging them to fights am I right?

VegasGmen
06-11-2012, 11:34 PM
Morality is goodness and accepted behavior in society. Very much disagree on your definition. Being "accepted" very much does not make something moral. Popular opinion is not even a valid argument, certainly not a useful guide for morality.

What one deems to be moral can be completely different from the next person, and this is exactly why popular opinion or society's perception is what dictates morality.
</P>


And thank you exactly correct!</P>

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:34 PM
we must also use utilitarian calculus which takes into account all the happiness and sadness an action creates

Ive read quite a bit of Mill actually. Probably formed the basis of my libertarian views. Sam Harris too I enjoy reading, and watching for that matter.

Really we are going to devolve here into more and more hypothetical examples.

I think we both agree that Diehl's decision where he could have potentially caused significant harm to others was at the very least stupid. If we want to get into Consequentialism and the like, we can determine its morality. But its not nearly a neat "black and white" situation as others in this thread make seem. Morality and how it applies to situations is intensely complicated.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:36 PM
Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?


</p>


There is nothing at all immoral about taking ones own life. Taking ones own life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives. Suicide is also not a crime in any state in the US.</p>


Are you serious that taking ones life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives!!! Do you have any loved ones in your life? Do you not think that if you commit suicide that your loved ones will not be seriously impacted by that act? Get a clue Slip!! I feel bad for those who love you.</p>

Guys, this board isn't for philosophy.

Its for cursing at people and challenging them to fights am I right?


Only if they make me mad :).
Sent him a private message about it 2 days ago. I didn't challenge him to a fight. I said "come meet me here, I'll buy you a few rounds and you can decide what you want to do." If you call me out on the internet, I am more than willing to meet you in person.
That and I've had some stuff going on that makes me more of a jerk than usual. I apologize for behaving like a hormonal menstruating teenage girl for the past couple of weeks. haven't been all that delightful in the real life either.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:38 PM
What one deems to be moral can be completely different from the next person, and this is exactly why popular opinion or society's perception is what dictates morality.


Dont really agree with that either. I think morals are superior to any cultural or societal obligations, and are inherent in humans as they are in all animals.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:40 PM
What one deems to be moral can be completely different from the next person, and this is exactly why popular opinion or society's perception is what dictates morality.


Dont really agree with that either. I think morals are superior to any cultural or societal obligations, and are inherent in humans as they are in all animals.

The fact that you said "I think" proves his point according to my knowledge of my relative truths.

ShakeNBake
06-11-2012, 11:42 PM
What one deems to be moral can be completely different from the next person, and this is exactly why popular opinion or society's perception is what dictates morality.


Dont really agree with that either. I think morals are superior to any cultural or societal obligations, and are inherent in humans as they are in all animals.

Morals are taught and learned, morals are most definitely not innate, but I would like to hear some examples of animal morality!

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:43 PM
The fact that you said "I think" proves his point according to my knowledge of my relative truths.

Fine. Morals dont come from individuals or from accepted societal norms. They are inherent part of humans and their evolution. In order for the human species to survive, they must have a basic moral compass.

ShakeNBake
06-11-2012, 11:44 PM
Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?


</p>


There is nothing at all immoral about taking ones own life. Taking ones own life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives. Suicide is also not a crime in any state in the US.</p>


Are you serious that taking ones life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives!!! Do you have any loved ones in your life? Do you not think that if you commit suicide that your loved ones will not be seriously impacted by that act? Get a clue Slip!! I feel bad for those who love you.</p>

Guys, this board isn't for philosophy.

Its for cursing at people and challenging them to fights am I right?


Only if they make me mad :).
Sent him a private message about it 2 days ago. I didn't challenge him to a fight. I said "come meet me here, I'll buy you a few rounds and you can decide what you want to do." If you call me out on the internet, I am more than willing to meet you in person.
That and I've had some stuff going on that makes me more of a jerk than usual. I apologize for behaving like a hormonal menstruating teenage girl for the past couple of weeks. haven't been all that delightful in the real life either.

Hey I don't care I enjoyed reading that mess over the passed few hours, it was definitely entertaining to say the least. I just couldn't resist to chime in after you said that haha.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:44 PM
Morals are taught and learned

are they? someone had to teach you not to murder and steal? Or did you realize that if you could steal and murder others, that others could do the same to you?

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:45 PM
Jeez alot of words for nothing. Taking your own life is immoral plain and simple! So you think suicide is moral?


</p>


There is nothing at all immoral about taking ones own life. Taking ones own life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives. Suicide is also not a crime in any state in the US.</p>


Are you serious that taking ones life does not effect the ability of others to live their lives!!! Do you have any loved ones in your life? Do you not think that if you commit suicide that your loved ones will not be seriously impacted by that act? Get a clue Slip!! I feel bad for those who love you.</p>

Guys, this board isn't for philosophy.

Its for cursing at people and challenging them to fights am I right?


Only if they make me mad :).
Sent him a private message about it 2 days ago. I didn't challenge him to a fight. I said "come meet me here, I'll buy you a few rounds and you can decide what you want to do." If you call me out on the internet, I am more than willing to meet you in person.
That and I've had some stuff going on that makes me more of a jerk than usual. I apologize for behaving like a hormonal menstruating teenage girl for the past couple of weeks. haven't been all that delightful in the real life either.

Hey I don't care I enjoyed reading that mess over the passed few hours, it was definitely entertaining to say the least. I just couldn't resist to chime in after you said that haha.


I was trying to be quasi-entertaining in the mean time lol.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:46 PM
The fact that you said "I think" proves his point according to my knowledge of my relative truths.

Fine. Morals dont come from individuals or from accepted societal norms. They are inherent part of humans and their evolution. In order for the human species to survive, they must have a basic moral compass.
Where/who do they come from? God? I am a religious person. Just trying to grasp your whole view point. I never understood the atheist believing in absolute truth.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:49 PM
Where/who do they come from? God? I am a religious person. Just trying to grasp your whole view point. I never understood the atheist believing in absolute truth.

That discussion is certainly not allowed here.

I do not see a need for religion for morality to exist.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:49 PM
Where/who do they come from? God? I am a religious person. Just trying to grasp your whole view point. I never understood the atheist believing in absolute truth.

That discussion is certainly not allowed here.

I do not see a need for religion for morality to exist.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:51 PM
Where/who do they come from? God? I am a religious person. Just trying to grasp your whole view point. I never understood the atheist believing in absolute truth.

That discussion is certainly not allowed here.

I do not see a need for religion in morality. In fact, I think religion causes most of the immorality in the world.

The I think statements again lololoolololol.

ShakeNBake
06-11-2012, 11:51 PM
Morals are taught and learned

are they? someone had to teach you not to murder and steal? Or did you realize that if you could steal and murder others, that others could do the same to you?

Yes, these are all things which one is taught.

Drez
06-11-2012, 11:52 PM
we must also use utilitarian calculus which takes into account all the happiness and sadness an action creates

Ive read quite a bit of Mill actually. Probably formed the basis of my libertarian views. Sam Harris too I enjoy reading, and watching for that matter.

Really we are going to devolve here into more and more hypothetical examples.

I think we both agree that Diehl's decision where he could have potentially caused significant harm to others was at the very least stupid. If we want to get into Consequentialism and the like, we can determine its morality. But its not nearly a neat "black and white" situation as others in this thread make seem. Morality and how it applies to situations is intensely complicated.
I can say I'm on board with that.

In fact, Mill likewise influenced me.

Here's an interesting essay that in large degree relates to all this. I would like to say though, that I don't agree with much of what he says. http://philosophyfaculty.ucsd.edu/faculty/rarneson/Courses/NAGELMoralLuck.pdf

All I can say is that I am not a fan of determinism or incompatiblism.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:52 PM
The I think statements again lololoolololol.

That wasent an absolute statement, clearly people can disagree on that.

I can provide sufficient evidence to support my argument if needed, but you can disagree.

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:54 PM
Yes, these are all things which one is taught.


Which is the chicken and the egg argument, and really gets you nowhere but back to the realization that basic moral behavior is inherent in nature.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 11:57 PM
The I think statements again lololoolololol.

That wasent an absolute statement, clearly people can disagree on that.

I can provide sufficient evidence to support my argument if needed, but you can disagree.

I DON'T THINK there is any evidence you can have that proves a philosophical argument.

Drez
06-11-2012, 11:57 PM
What one deems to be moral can be completely different from the next person, and this is exactly why popular opinion or society's perception is what dictates morality.


Dont really agree with that either. I think morals are superior to any cultural or societal obligations, and are inherent in humans as they are in all animals.

Morals are taught and learned, morals are most definitely not innate, but I would like to hear some examples of animal morality!


Who says animals are moral agents?

slipknottin
06-11-2012, 11:59 PM
I DON'T THINK there is any evidence you can have that proves a philosophical argument.

Im not sure what you are talking about.

That certain entities can create immoral behavior can certainly be proven.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:01 AM
Who says animals are moral agents?


Ok, let me ask you this.

Where did the concept of "dont murder" come from?

Is it a human invention? Was it given to humans by a diety?

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:02 AM
I DON'T THINK there is any evidence you can have that proves a philosophical argument.

Im not sure what you are talking about.

That was me disagreeing... but with the statement. I don't know what your argument is lol.

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:03 AM
Yes, these are all things which one is taught.


Which is the chicken and the egg argument, and really gets you nowhere but back to the realization that basic moral behavior is inherent in nature.
Generally speaking, I'd have to agree with that. For the most part, there are things that are universal moral rules that all societies follow (of course there are certain very rare exceptions).

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:04 AM
Who says animals are moral agents?


Ok, let me ask you this.

Where did the concept of "dont murder" come from?

Is it a human invention? Was it given to humans by a diety?

We don't have a don't kill instinct. We applaud the death of some and mourn the death of others. For example, in world war 2 there was so much hatred for the German people that they were being killed left and right in the US. Over there they were treated with no mercy even though their options were fight against the world or have their families be killed. The Japanese killed for the hell of it in the pacific as did the Americans. Obama blows people up with drones in the name of "national security". There is blood on the hands of every American, demanding the deaths of thousands who committed no crime other than having their countries invaded by us. Mostly innocent blood is on our hands, and we applaud ourselves for it.
5000 dead Americans is a tragedy.
1,000,000 dead Iraqis and Afghanies is an accomplishment.

VegasGmen
06-12-2012, 12:04 AM
Yes, these are all things which one is taught.
Which is the chicken and the egg argument, and really gets you nowhere but back to the realization that basic moral behavior is inherent in nature.</P>


Is it really? moral behavior is learned.</P>

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:05 AM
Who says animals are moral agents?


Ok, let me ask you this.

Where did the concept of "dont murder" come from?

Is it a human invention? Was it given to humans by a diety?
I'd have to say that humanity realizes that killing another without just cause is wrong, either it be innately or by the realization that social order cannot be maintained if murder were an acceptable act.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:06 AM
That was me disagreeing... but with the statement. I don't know what your argument is lol.

my point was that human entities can create immoral behavior. And the most common are the ones who do so while using the "this is what god/allah/jehovah/thetan wants"

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:07 AM
Yes, these are all things which one is taught.
Which is the chicken and the egg argument, and really gets you nowhere but back to the realization that basic moral behavior is inherent in nature.</p>


Is it really? moral behavior is learned.</p>
Most moral philosophers would disagree with you.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:07 AM
Is it really? moral behavior is learned.</P>

You have to ask yourself the follow up question then.

Learned from where?

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:09 AM
That was me disagreeing... but with the statement. I don't know what your argument is lol.

my point was that human entities can create immoral behavior. And the most common are the ones who do so while using the "this is what god/allah/jehovah/thetan wants"

But if they believe it is right, does that make it wrong? There is a good majority of people who believe that in some parts of the world. Are they wrong to govern themselves accordingly in those regions?

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:10 AM
We don't have a don't kill instinct. We applaud the death of some and mourn the death of others. .

This is a completely different argument. I was not talking about killing in the name of self defense, or food competition, or that sort of thing.

I mean murder, some guy looked at you strange, or started talking to your wife, or that sort of thing.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:12 AM
We don't have a don't kill instinct. We applaud the death of some and mourn the death of others. .

This is a completely different argument. I was not talking about killing in the name of self defense, or food competition, or that sort of thing.

I mean murder, some guy looked at you strange, or started talking to your wife, or that sort of thing.
An American soldier breaks into an Iraqi home and kills an entire family and gets off clean simply because he says "they were a threat to America." He goes home and gets a medal for it and is considered a hero by the American public. Turns out the family he slaughtered was just a sheep herding family with no weapons in southern Iraq (I know for a fact that this situation happened in the gulf war.)
To the afghanis, he is a cold blooded killer. To the Americans, he is a hero who killed terrorists .

VegasGmen
06-12-2012, 12:14 AM
Is it really? moral behavior is learned.


</P>


You have to ask yourself the follow up question then. Learned from where?</P>


Learned from accepted societal norms for the common good.</P>

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:16 AM
Is it really? moral behavior is learned.


</p>


You have to ask yourself the follow up question then. Learned from where?</p>


Learned from accepted societal norms for the common good.</p>
Who or what defines societal norms?

NYGiantsFan56
06-12-2012, 12:16 AM
What Diehl did was stupid. Guy made a dumb mistake and he is lucky no one got hurt by his actions. The guy admitted his mistake and he will take his punishment and make things right in the end. Time to move on. However, even though the league probably won't suspend him, I have a feeing Coughlin will. My hunch is Coughlin is going to bench him the Opening Game against Dallas for this boneheaded move and that will be the end of it. Time to lay off the guy and let Coughlin, the Courts and Diehl deal with the consequences. The guy is rock solid and he will learn from this.

VegasGmen
06-12-2012, 12:19 AM
Is it really? moral behavior is learned.


</P>


You have to ask yourself the follow up question then. Learned from where?</P>


Learned from accepted societal norms for the common good.</P>



Who or what defines societal norms?
</P>


Societal norms are dictated by the masses..duh</P>

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:19 AM
But if they believe it is right, does that make it wrong?

Absolutely. The truth is not dependent on belief.

Just as a for instance, look at what a group like Al Qaeda, they want nothing more than to eliminate, with violence if needed, all other religious groups and unbelievers, and to create a despotic empire.

Does the fact that they are doing so under the belief that Allah is telling them to do so make it moral?

I can make a list of specifics that they wish upon the rest of the world, not the least of which begins with largely eliminating any and all womens rights.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:21 AM
An American soldier breaks into an Iraqi home and kills an entire family and gets off clean simply because he says "they were a threat to America." He goes home and gets a medal for it and is considered a hero by the American public.

This is absolutely false. The only way such a person would be considered a hero would be if the truth of the situation was never revealed.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:21 AM
But if they believe it is right, does that make it wrong?

Absolutely. The truth is not dependent on belief.

Just as a for instance, look at what a group like Al Qaeda, they want nothing more than to eliminate, with violence if needed, all other religious groups and unbelievers, and to create a despotic empire.

Does the fact that they are doing so under the belief that Allah is telling them to do so make it moral?

I can make a list of specifics that they wish upon the rest of the world, not the least of which begins with largely eliminating any and all womens rights.

Saudi Arabia is run on very similar beliefs to Al Queda. Are you telling me that we should tell them how to govern themselves based upon what their majority wants?

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:22 AM
>Learned from accepted societal norms for the common good.</P>

So it is inherent.

Society can not exist without basic inherent moral behavior.

VegasGmen
06-12-2012, 12:23 AM
But if they believe it is right, does that make it wrong? Absolutely. The truth is not dependent on belief. Just as a for instance, look at what a group like Al Qaeda, they want nothing more than to eliminate, with violence if needed, all other religious groups and unbelievers, and to create a despotic empire. Does the fact that they are doing so under the belief that Allah is telling them to do so make it moral? I can make a list of specifics that they wish upon the rest of the world, not the least of which begins with largely eliminating any and all womens rights. Saudi Arabia is run on very similar beliefs to Al Queda. Are you telling me that we should tell them how to govern themselves based upon what their majority wants?</P>


Yes because its not for the preservation of life and the common good of all people.</P>

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:24 AM
An American soldier breaks into an Iraqi home and kills an entire family and gets off clean simply because he says "they were a threat to America." He goes home and gets a medal for it and is considered a hero by the American public.

This is absolutely false. The only way such a person would be considered a hero would be if the truth of the situation was never revealed.

It was revealed... with an American twist. It happens all the time. There are an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 Iraqi and Afghani deaths in this current war. Estimates say only about 50,000 of those are insurgents. That means 90-98% of those killed were innocent. And some of those were hit on purpose, others by accident. Just because they aren't American and aren't capable of defending themselves, does that make it okay that they were senselessly slaughtered? Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize, yet the man is responsible for easily 10-20k innocent deaths.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:24 AM
Saudi Arabia is run on very similar beliefs to Al Queda. Are you telling me that we should tell them how to govern themselves based upon what their majority wants?

Saudi Arabia is a much less hardline place than Iran, and even further removed from Al Queda.

However. Absolutely Saudi Arabia should change and not because of popular opinion.

Popular opinion is meaningless.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:25 AM
It was revealed... with an American twist. It happens all the time. There are an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 Iraqi and Afghani deaths in this current war. Estimates say only about 50,000 of those are insurgents. That means 90-98% of those killed were innocent. And some of those were hit on purpose, others by accident. Just because they aren't American and aren't capable of defending themselves, does that make it okay that they were senselessly slaughtered? Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize, yet the man is responsible for easily 10-20k innocent deaths.

I really am not sure of what argument you are attempting to make here.

yes, innocent people get killed in wars. I dont think anyone celebrates the deaths of innocent people, and certainly nobody tries to make heroes of those who kill them.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:29 AM
It was revealed... with an American twist. It happens all the time. There are an estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 Iraqi and Afghani deaths in this current war. Estimates say only about 50,000 of those are insurgents. That means 90-98% of those killed were innocent. And some of those were hit on purpose, others by accident. Just because they aren't American and aren't capable of defending themselves, does that make it okay that they were senselessly slaughtered? Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize, yet the man is responsible for easily 10-20k innocent deaths.

I really am not sure of what argument you are attempting to make here.

yes, innocent people get killed in wars. I dont think anyone celebrates the deaths of innocent people, and certainly nobody tries to make heroes of those who kill them.

WE DO! this is my opposing argument that humans know not to kill. They will kill if they are told to by an authority, and the authority will applaud them as heroes for doing it.

VegasGmen
06-12-2012, 12:30 AM
&gt;Learned from accepted societal norms for the common good.


</P>


So it is inherent. Society can not exist without basic inherent moral behavior.</P>


Basic inherent animalistic behavior is to kill to survive. We as humans must must incorporate morals (norms to preserve life) to ensure that the human race survives without conflict.</P>

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:32 AM
WE DO! this is my opposing argument that humans know not to kill. They will kill if they are told to by an authority, and the authority will applaud them as heroes for doing it.

You mean people who are trained for years to obey and not question their superiors will kill when told to kill?

Why do you think they need all that training?

Why do you think the military breaks down everyone who enters and molds them into exactly the type of person they want?

Its so the soldiers dont think, dont question, they just act and do as told.

And this is still not at all the same point.

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:34 AM
Is it really? moral behavior is learned.


</p>


You have to ask yourself the follow up question then. Learned from where?</p>


Learned from accepted societal norms for the common good.</p>



Who or what defines societal norms?
</p>


Societal norms are dictated by the masses..duh</p>
So, societal norms are dictated by the people who learn them?

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:35 AM
Basic inherent animalistic behavior is to kill to survive. We as humans must must incorporate morals (norms to preserve life) to ensure that the human race survives without conflict.</P>

Wrong. Animal behavior is far more complicated than "kill to survive". It is do whatever you can to maximize your chance of survival.

Look at our closest animal relative. Chimps. They live in large social groups where they cooperate to survive. It is extremely rare, if not unheard of for chimps to kill other members of their social group.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:36 AM
So, societal norms are dictated by the people who learn them?


A is true because B is true.

And B is true because A is true.

Duh. Lol

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:37 AM
WE DO! this is my opposing argument that humans know not to kill. They will kill if they are told to by an authority, and the authority will applaud them as heroes for doing it.

You mean people who are trained for years to obey and not question their superiors will kill when told to kill?

Why do you think they need all that training?

Why do you think the military breaks down everyone who enters and molds them into exactly the type of person they want?

Its so the soldiers dont think, dont question, they just act and do as told.

And this is still not at all the same point.

We also applaud the officials who make the decisions. People love Obama and say he is a great guy yet he is responsible for every death caused by the army in the past 3 and a half years. People think Obama is the greatest president ever and a great human being, but he is responsible for the death of thousands. Is he a good or bad person in your opinion?

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:37 AM
The truth is not dependent on belief.
More so than that, epistemologically speaking truth and belief are completely different entities.

ShakeNBake
06-12-2012, 12:38 AM
Yes, these are all things which one is taught.


Which is the chicken and the egg argument, and really gets you nowhere but back to the realization that basic moral behavior is inherent in nature.

I'd try to argue your point here if I knew what it was. That was an atrocious comparison.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:39 AM
We also applaud the officials who make the decisions. People love Obama and say he is a great guy yet he is responsible for every death caused by the army in the past 3 and a half years. People think Obama is the greatest president ever and a great human being, but he is responsible for the death of thousands. Is he a good or bad person in your opinion?

Again you are trying to turn this into something different entirely.

Now, do I think Obama targets non-combatants, no.

Do I realize innocents will die in combat, yes.

Do I think in general, the US takes a ton of extra precautions to try to avoid civilian deaths, yes.

So does him being the commander of the military make him a bad person because innocent people get killed accidentally during war? No.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-12-2012, 12:40 AM
Yes, these are all things which one is taught.


Which is the chicken and the egg argument, and really gets you nowhere but back to the realization that basic moral behavior is inherent in nature.

I'd try to argue your point here if I knew what it was. That was an atrocious comparison.


I'm bored of philosophy now. I'm glad I'm a scientist haha.

ShakeNBake
06-12-2012, 12:40 AM
Basic inherent animalistic behavior is to kill to survive. We as humans must must incorporate morals (norms to preserve life) to ensure that the human race survives without conflict.

</p>

Wrong. Animal behavior is far more complicated than "kill to survive". It is do whatever you can to maximize your chance of survival.

Look at our closest animal relative. Chimps. They live in large social groups where they cooperate to survive. It is extremely rare, if not unheard of for chimps to kill other members of their social group.

[url]http://www.world-science.net/othernews/100621_chimps.htm[url]

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:41 AM
So, societal norms are dictated by the people who learn them?


A is true because B is true.

And B is true because A is true.

Duh. Lol
lol

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:42 AM
I'd try to argue your point here if I knew what it was. That was an atrocious comparison.


You are arguing that morality is learned behavior.

To be learned, at some point it must have been taught.

Therefore,
What came first, the teaching of it, or the learning of it?

This goes in circles forever and gets you nowhere.

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:43 AM
Yes, these are all things which one is taught.


Which is the chicken and the egg argument, and really gets you nowhere but back to the realization that basic moral behavior is inherent in nature.

I'd try to argue your point here if I knew what it was. That was an atrocious comparison.


I'm bored of philosophy now. I'm glad I'm a scientist haha.

If you are actually a scientist, then you owe your life-being to philosophy, as that is where the sciences originated.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:45 AM
[url]http://www.world-science.net/othernews/100621_chimps.htm[url]


If this is an article about chimp groups fighting other chimp groups, then yes, I already know.

They very rarely fight within their own social groups.

The difference between war and murder. If they did not understand the difference, and if murder was an acceptable thing, they would just as willingly kill within their groups, and there would be no chimp societies.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:46 AM
I'm bored of philosophy now. I'm glad I'm a scientist haha.

A scientist?

Of what, if I may ask?

ShakeNBake
06-12-2012, 12:49 AM
I'd try to argue your point here if I knew what it was. That was an atrocious comparison.


You are arguing that morality is learned behavior.

To be learned, at some point it must have been taught.

Therefore,
What came first, the teaching of it, or the learning of it?

This goes in circles forever and gets you nowhere.

It doesn't matter which came first in your argument, because learning and teaching are done via acquired information we gather throughout our lives, which is not hardwired into us which you are arguing.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:51 AM
It doesn't matter which came first in your argument, because learning and teaching are done via acquired information we gather throughout our lives, which is not hardwired into us which you are arguing.


Ok, lets try this a different way then.

How does one "acquire" this information?

Does the concept just appear in ones brain out of the blue? Or is it taught to them?

And if it is just "acquired" and not taught, then how does all (or most) of society also acquire the same thing? Chance?

Or does one person learn of this and then teach the rest of society?

VegasGmen
06-12-2012, 12:51 AM
Is it really? moral behavior is learned.


</P>


You have to ask yourself the follow up question then. Learned from where?</P>


Learned from accepted societal norms for the common good.</P>



Who or what defines societal norms?
</P>


Societal norms are dictated by the masses..duh</P>



So, societal norms are dictated by the people who learn them?
</P>


Yes unfortunately we must learn not to kill, not to destroy the fabric of humanity so the human race can endure beyond our animalistic tendencies. </P>

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 12:57 AM
Yes unfortunately we must learn not to kill, not to destroy the fabric of humanity so the human race can endure beyond our animalistic tendencies. </P>

So other species of animals, and primative humans had to learn this behavior?

So theoretically, there was a point in time before they learned this, that all they did was kill each other?