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888888
06-11-2012, 12:02 PM
I have been guessing where our QB will end up on all-time lists. I figure he is at the half-way point of career. If we just double his numbers he will definitely be top ten alltime in yards and TDs. Maybe top five</P>


</P>

888888
06-11-2012, 12:02 PM
I have been guessing where our QB will end up on all-time lists. I figure he is at the half-way point of career. If we just double his numbers he will definitely be top ten alltime in yards and TDs. Maybe top five</P>


</P>

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 12:08 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
He's certainly improving his strike rate but it'll be tough to crack the top 5.

Drez
06-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Which numbers are you doubling?
Yeah, he's at the 3/5s mark...

I'd imagine he's doubling all his numbers.

Drez
06-11-2012, 12:13 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.

888888
06-11-2012, 12:25 PM
I'm basically thinking about total yards and total touchdowns...throw in comebacks and road playoff wins..</P>


</P>

JPP
06-11-2012, 12:29 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
He's certainly improving his strike rate but it'll be tough to crack the top 5.

He averaged 22 through the 1st could seasons then he bumped up to the 3000 yard area then 4 and now he has shown he can throw with anyone with almost 5000. That is one thihg I feel people don't take into consideration Eli has really only gotten better as he gets older, that doesn't mean I think he'll throw for 6000 next year, so if he continues his strong play later in his career his numbers will grow at an alarming rate since he is building most of them up fast now instead of evenly throughout his career. I don't thik he'll finish top 5 but with some luck he could be in the top 15 range.

Drez
06-11-2012, 12:40 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

jakegibbs
06-11-2012, 12:52 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Breeze & Brady have a little better reg season stats but not much. If you just counting their 1st 8 seasons like Eli's stats are made up of anyway.

giantsfan39
06-11-2012, 01:00 PM
I have been guessing where our QB will end up on all-time lists. I figure he is at the half-way point of career. If we just double his numbers he will definitely be top ten alltime in yards and TDs. Maybe top five</p>


</p>

There's three guys playing right now who he will never surpass in Peyton, Brees and Brady. And he won't overtake Farve or Montana. And then Rodgers most likely. Already six guys he can't overtake. So no chance at the top five without even having to consider Young or Elway or Marino.

Drez
06-11-2012, 01:03 PM
I have been guessing where our QB will end up on all-time lists. I figure he is at the half-way point of career. If we just double his numbers he will definitely be top ten alltime in yards and TDs. Maybe top five</p>


</p>

There's three guys playing right now who he will never surpass in Peyton, Brees and Brady. And he won't overtake Farve or Montana. And then Rodgers most likely. Already six guys he can't overtake. So no chance at the top five without even having to consider Young or Elway or Marino.

How do you know that Eli can't overtake Brady, Brees, or Peyton. They all have similar stats through similar spots in their careers, so it really isn't a stretch to say that it's possible that Eli will continue that trend.

giantsfan39
06-11-2012, 01:08 PM
Maybe he will. I think he is the next best thing after that tier. I just think they better than Eli and I don't see Eli throwing for 40+ TDs ever. Nor do I see many 5000 yd seasons especially because we like balance even though thathas probably shifted towards a bit more passing than running.

jakegibbs
06-11-2012, 01:12 PM
I have been guessing where our QB will end up on all-time lists. I figure he is at the half-way point of career. If we just double his numbers he will definitely be top ten alltime in yards and TDs. Maybe top five</P>


*</P>

Here's some records he's got already

Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)


Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)


Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)

Holds NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15)

Not too bad wonder what he'll have when it's all said & done.

giantsfan39
06-11-2012, 01:13 PM
I also see 5000 yards as an anomaly caused by the lockout and our poor defense (for much of the seasons , his highest yards came in the Saints and Seahawks games-both are games we lost) and running game.

I see bright things for the future of the Giants. I see a defense that establishes self as a top 5 defense and our running game improving. I also see Eli getting his INTs down even more and having to throw for less yards because he becomes more efficient. I see him averaging 4000-4200 yards, 30-35 TDs and hopefully 8-12 INTs.

We also don't run up the score so that will play a part.

giantsfan39
06-11-2012, 01:15 PM
I have been guessing where our QB will end up on all-time lists. I figure he is at the half-way point of career. If we just double his numbers he will definitely be top ten alltime in yards and TDs. Maybe top five</p>


</p>

Here's some records he's got already

Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)


Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)


Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)

Holds NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15)

Not too bad wonder what he'll have when it's all said &amp; done.

He is great. I do think some of these records aren't really records. He had 4 games to get 1219 yards. I believe Montana had seasons where he had moreyards per game than ELi this year but only played in three games due to being the 1 or 2 seeds.

The old record of 14 was held by a guy who did it in 14 games right?

TuckYou
06-11-2012, 01:15 PM
Considering Eli just blew away his yardage record for a season, and most likely now with the new rules the way they are, I could see Eli doubling his yardage or at least getting 50K (He would need to get 3800 yards next 6 years, or 3900 the next 7 years to DOUBLE up). Ill give Eli another 4-5 (Age 36)seasons playing at a high level and about 3-4 (late 30s, 40 Tops)more seasons after that. Although, if they dont improve the Oline and he is getting hit like last season, he wont last as long. We have been very fortunate Eli hasnt been hurt seriouslyyet (broken bone, tears or concussion)with all the hits he has been taking. </P>


As far as TDs, Eli never was a superstar tossing many TDs like Brady or Peyton, and probably never will reach the 40TD mark. So he has 185 TDs and to double that he would need 31 TDs averagethe next 6 seasons or 27 TDs the next 7 seasons, which Im not sure he will make. However if he plays another 8 or 9seasons he needs (MAX) 23TDs or 21 TDs per year which may be possible. </P>


Things that help him right now are he is in a pass happy offense now and arguably has one of the best WRs cores in the NFL. Also the rules changing benefit him as well. </P>


Hopefully his INTs dont double though cause that would be ugly. </P>


But I am looking forward to him doubling his Superbowl Rings. :-)</P>

jakegibbs
06-11-2012, 01:21 PM
I have been guessing where our QB will end up on all-time lists. I figure he is at the half-way point of career. If we just double his numbers he will definitely be top ten alltime in yards and TDs. Maybe top five</p>


*</p>

There's three guys playing right now who he will never surpass in Peyton, Brees and Brady. And he won't overtake Farve or Montana. And then Rodgers most likely. Already six guys he can't overtake. So no chance at the top five without even having to consider Young or Elway or Marino.


If he can get one for the thumb he'll surpass them all right? 2 down & 3 to go. Just do it & all will shut up.

Drez
06-11-2012, 01:45 PM
Considering Eli just blew away his yardage record for a season, and most likely now with the new rules the way they are, I could see Eli doubling his yardage or at least getting 50K (He would need to get 3800 yards next 6 years, or 3900 the next 7 years to DOUBLE up). Ill give Eli another 4-5 (Age 36)seasons playing at a high level and about 3-4 (late 30s, 40 Tops)more seasons after that. Although, if they dont improve the Oline and he is getting hit like last season, he wont last as long. We have been very fortunate Eli hasnt been hurt seriouslyyet (broken bone, tears or concussion)with all the hits he has been taking. </p>


As far as TDs, Eli never was a superstar tossing many TDs like Brady or Peyton, and probably never will reach the 40TD mark. So he has 185 TDs and to double that he would need 31 TDs averagethe next 6 seasons or 27 TDs the next 7 seasons, which Im not sure he will make. However if he plays another 8 or 9seasons he needs (MAX) 23TDs or 21 TDs per year which may be possible. </p>


Things that help him right now are he is in a pass happy offense now and arguably has one of the best WRs cores in the NFL. Also the rules changing benefit him as well. </p>


Hopefully his INTs dont double though cause that would be ugly. </p>


But I am looking forward to him doubling his Superbowl Rings. :-)</p>
Yeah, honestly, I don't see him surpassing some of those guys, either. However, I think it's ridiculous to just dismiss the possibility out of hand. People don't realize how close Eli is statistically to the "elite" QBs at similar spots in their careers. People think that Brady and Brees played their entire careers as they have the past 4 or 5 years... And that's just not the case.

I'll second and third your last two points!!

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 01:48 PM
i hope people realize and factor in that we run such a vertical, downfield type passing offense.

eli completed the most passes of 20 yds or more in the air, and on, league wide...

during the run, we were throwing underneath much mroe but thats bc our vertical offense forced teams to leave the underneath open...and when we used that underneath style, eli went 30-40 for 300 and a td in the sb...

elis stats will never match up favorable among other top qbs in certain areas for that very reason.

and its why the yards have always been very good with eli, while the ints have been an issue as well...more downfield is more chance of an error happening, its a bigger risk.

but its also telling that in those stats that reflect downfield passing, eli is tops or among the top in almost every regard

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 01:52 PM
i hope people realize and factor in that we run such a vertical, downfield type passing offense.

eli completed the most passes of 20 yds or more in the air, and on, league wide...

during the run, we were throwing underneath much mroe but thats bc our vertical offense forced teams to leave the underneath open...and when we used that underneath style, eli went 30-40 for 300 and a td in the sb...

elis stats will never match up favorable among other top qbs in certain areas for that very reason.

and its why the yards have always been very good with eli, while the ints have been an issue as well...more downfield is more chance of an error happening, its a bigger risk.

but its also telling that in those stats that reflect downfield passing, eli is tops or among the top in almost every regard

like it shoulda been clear to giants fans our offense ran a bit differently in the SB and even earlier in that run. we were using the flats a lot more...eli was exceptionally accurate and effecient when we did so...hopefully we continue to utilize that bc our scheme puts so much pressure on defenses downfield, the underneath stuff will be there often...its why i think wilson makes so much sense, with his speed and agility, getting him in the flats vs a lb or cb or s or anyone 1 v 1 is totally unfair and ahuge advantage for us

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 01:53 PM
Considering Eli just blew away his yardage record for a season, and most likely now with the new rules the way they are, I could see Eli doubling his yardage or at least getting 50K (He would need to get 3800 yards next 6 years, or 3900 the next 7 years to DOUBLE up). Ill give Eli another 4-5 (Age 36)*seasons playing at a high level and about 3-4 (late 30s, 40 Tops)*more seasons after that. Although, if they dont improve the Oline and he is getting hit like last season, he wont last as long. We have been very fortunate Eli hasnt been hurt seriously*yet (broken bone, tears or concussion)with all the hits he has been taking. </p>


As far as TDs, Eli never was a superstar tossing many TDs like Brady or Peyton, and probably never will reach the 40TD mark. So he has 185 TDs and to double that he would need 31 TDs average*the next 6 seasons or 27 TDs the next 7 seasons, which Im not sure he will make. However if he plays another 8 or 9*seasons he needs (MAX) 23TDs or 21 TDs per year which may be possible. </p>


Things that help him right now are he is in a pass happy offense now and arguably has one of the best WRs cores in the NFL. Also the rules changing benefit him as well. </p>


Hopefully his INTs dont double though cause that would be ugly. </p>


But I am looking forward to him doubling his Superbowl Rings. :-)</p>
Yeah, honestly, I don't see him surpassing some of those guys, either. However, I think it's ridiculous to just dismiss the possibility out of hand. People don't realize how close Eli is statistically to the "elite" QBs at similar spots in their careers. People think that Brady and Brees played their entire careers as they have the past 4 or 5 years... And that's just not the case.

I'll second and third your last two points!!


excellent post drez

miked1958
06-11-2012, 03:18 PM
Bottom line is that they have been some really great QBs in Montana, elway, Marino and sown great ones playing like have been mentioned like Peyton, Rodgers, Bree's and Brady.... Fact is it doesn't really matter weather Eli passes them or not. Great ones like that come along few and far between when you consider ow many avg or below avg ones there have been in the same time span. We are blessed to have one of those type QBs that will be called great when he is retired. He has brought us 2 SBs and could of come close or a third if not for plax in 08. I think he will win one or two more before he is done.... That's all that matters not where he finishes on that list

jakegibbs
06-11-2012, 03:32 PM
I have been guessing where our QB will end up on all-time lists. I figure he is at the half-way point of career. If we just double his numbers he will definitely be top ten alltime in yards and TDs. Maybe top five</p>


*</p>

Here's some records he's got already

Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)


Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)


Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)

Holds NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15)

Not too bad wonder what he'll have when it's all said & done.

He is great. I do think some of these records aren't really records. He had 4 games to get 1219 yards. I believe* Montana had seasons where he had moreyards per game than ELi this year but only played in three games due to being the 1 or 2 seeds.

The old record of 14 was held by a guy who did it in 14 games right?


They've been playing 14 then 16 game seasons for a long while now; what 30 years or more? If it was easy to break then why hasn't it already been broken?

buddy33
06-11-2012, 03:48 PM
My concern with Eli going into last season was TO's. To me, he looked like a different QB last year. I think he took sacks where he used to just chuck it up and threw it away more this year.

burier
06-11-2012, 03:49 PM
I'd say Eli is pretty close to the halfway mark. Considering he's been remarkably healthy. No concussions or anything like that.

He might bow out before his time is up like many successful athletes do as well so who knows.

Also theres a possibility that his shoulder becomes and issue in a few years.

But there's really no reason to assume he can't go another 7 years with the increasing strides the league continues to take to make sure QB aren't touched.

jakegibbs
06-11-2012, 03:51 PM
25 -30 YEARS FROM NOW ELI WILL BE THE STANDARD THAT POSTERS ON THIS BOARD WHO HAVEN'T BEEN BORN YET WILL BE COMPAIRING GOOD OR BAD THEIR CURRENT NYG QB STATUS AGAINST. HE'S ANOTHER ELI OR MAN WE NEED ANOTHER ELI. GET THE PICTURE?

REMEMBER BY THEN I'LL BE LONG GONE BUT YOU HEARD IT FIRST HERE.

joedonlooney
06-11-2012, 07:18 PM
FYI
Eli Manning has 185 td passes-ranking 51st all time. In 3 years, form holding true, he will pass Unitas and be 8th all time. He will pass Bradshaw next year. Young, Blanda, Kelly, Dawson and Tittle (all hall of famers) the following year. Fouts, Jurgenson and Montana the third year.
Tarkenton is fourth with 342. I say Eli passes him. So will Brady and Brees. Eli finishes fifth or sixth all time.
But its rings that count. And that's when our guy is the best!

G-ManSB42
06-11-2012, 07:42 PM
If Eli keeps getting rings he will be laughing at all other QB stats.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-11-2012, 07:44 PM
It will be a sad day when Eli retires. :/

chasjay
06-11-2012, 08:02 PM
Barring injury, I figure Eli is halfway through his career. 8 more seasons would put him 39 or 40 when he hangs it up. It is reasonable to think he'll average a little more production the second 8 years than he did the first eight. Top 5 stats are attainable - doesn't mean he'll get there, but he could.

Flip Empty
06-11-2012, 10:03 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

Impressive. I'd never compared them in that fashion. I guess he does have a chance.

NYG 5
06-11-2012, 10:10 PM
just going off his brother, and a lot of past QBs, i think he's going to enjoy about another 5 years of high production. it seems that its around age 36 that guys start losing the arm and the durability, and the numbers start tanking.

as for where he'll finish, barring some type of disaster, around 40,000 yards, 290 TD, 210 INT over a 15 year career

Drez
06-11-2012, 10:35 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

Impressive. I'd never compared them in that fashion. I guess he does have a chance.
Quite honestly, even with as big of an Eli homer as I am, I was rather surprised how Eli stacked up against them when I first did the comparison. I think it speaks a lot about the perception of Eli versus the reality of his production.

giantsfan420
06-11-2012, 11:03 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

Impressive. I'd never compared them in that fashion. I guess he does have a chance.
Quite honestly, even with as big of an Eli homer as I am, I was rather surprised how Eli stacked up against them when I first did the comparison. I think it speaks a lot about the perception of Eli versus the reality of his production.


well done/said

Flip Empty
06-12-2012, 12:11 AM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

Impressive. I'd never compared them in that fashion. I guess he does have a chance.
Quite honestly, even with as big of an Eli homer as I am, I was rather surprised how Eli stacked up against them when I first did the comparison. I think it speaks a lot about the perception of Eli versus the reality of his production.

Definitely. I know he's always been competitive yardage-wise (I remember him cracking the top 5 for... 06 I think?), but not with scoring. Strange.

Drez
06-12-2012, 12:56 AM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

Impressive. I'd never compared them in that fashion. I guess he does have a chance.
Quite honestly, even with as big of an Eli homer as I am, I was rather surprised how Eli stacked up against them when I first did the comparison. I think it speaks a lot about the perception of Eli versus the reality of his production.

Definitely. I know he's always been competitive yardage-wise (I remember him cracking the top 5 for... 06 I think?), but not with scoring. Strange.
Think about it this way... Eli is one of only a few (I think 4 or 5) QBs to have at least 3k yards and 20+ tds every year for the past 7 years. That's gotta say something about where he stands in stats.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 01:22 AM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

Impressive. I'd never compared them in that fashion. I guess he does have a chance.
Quite honestly, even with as big of an Eli homer as I am, I was rather surprised how Eli stacked up against them when I first did the comparison. I think it speaks a lot about the perception of Eli versus the reality of his production.

Definitely. I know he's always been competitive yardage-wise (I remember him cracking the top 5 for... 06 I think?), but not with scoring. Strange.
Think about it this way... Eli is one of only a few (I think 4 or 5) QBs to have at least 3k yards and 20+ tds every year for the past 7 years. That's gotta say something about where he stands in stats.


i believe hes the 6th qb to do it peyton was the 5th

gmen46
06-12-2012, 02:44 AM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

Impressive. I'd never compared them in that fashion. I guess he does have a chance.
Quite honestly, even with as big of an Eli homer as I am, I was rather surprised how Eli stacked up against them when I first did the comparison. I think it speaks a lot about the perception of Eli versus the reality of his production.

Definitely. I know he's always been competitive yardage-wise (I remember him cracking the top 5 for... 06 I think?), but not with scoring. Strange.
Think about it this way... Eli is one of only a few (I think 4 or 5) QBs to have at least 3k yards and 20+ tds every year for the past 7 years. That's gotta say something about where he stands in stats.


It should also at least call into question all those "Eli's so inconsistent" critics. It won't, of course.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 03:20 AM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
Brady and Brees didn't average that many until about their 6th-8th years in the league... Which is right when Eli has.

IIRC, Eli has more TDs through similar points in their careers than both. I'll have to look it up.


Through their first 7 seasons as a full season starter (this disregards the rookie seasons of all three, but counts the year Brees was benched after 11 games), here are the stats:

EM: Yds: 26, 536 TDs: 179
TB: Yds: 26, 364 TDs: 197
DB: Yds: 26, 037 TD: 167

So, Eli has a slight edge on DB at this stage in their careers for TDs and is trailing Brady by a bit, though that 50 TD season really put Brady over the top in that department, lol. Yardswise, they are all very close with a slight edge to Eli.

Their full career (including rookie year's) TD avgs look like this (numbers in brackets disregard rookie seasons):

EM: 23.125/year (25.5)
TB: 25/year (27.2)
DB: 25.5/year (28)

Again, all very close, though Brady and Brees enjoy slight edges.

Impressive. I'd never compared them in that fashion. I guess he does have a chance.
Quite honestly, even with as big of an Eli homer as I am, I was rather surprised how Eli stacked up against them when I first did the comparison. I think it speaks a lot about the perception of Eli versus the reality of his production.

Definitely. I know he's always been competitive yardage-wise (I remember him cracking the top 5 for... 06 I think?), but not with scoring. Strange.
Think about it this way... Eli is one of only a few (I think 4 or 5) QBs to have at least 3k yards and 20+ tds every year for the past 7 years. That's gotta say something about where he stands in stats.


It should also at least call into question all those "Eli's so inconsistent" critics. It won't, of course.

lol so true. "but they had reason to want to go a diff way. eli was wildy inconsistent."

gmen46
06-12-2012, 05:11 AM
just going off his brother, and a lot of past QBs, i think he's going to enjoy about another 5 years of high production. it seems that its around age 36 that guys start losing the arm and the durability, and the numbers start tanking.

as for where he'll finish, barring some type of disaster, around 40,000 yards, 290 TD, 210 INT over a 15 year career


You're really underestimating how Eli will finish out his career.

For example, he's already at 27,579 yards after 8 years. If, as you posit, he plays a total of 15 seasons (reasonable assumption, though he may play 1-2 years beyond that), in order to reach the 40,000 total you project, he would average only 1857 yards per season over the next 7 years. That's ridiculous.

Likewise, for your TD projection to occur, Eli would average only 15 TDs per year for the next 7 years. Equally absurd.

He may well taper off in stat production his last year or two, but it's not going to drop off a cliff, as your projections suggest.

No, his career yards are going to end up closer to 50,000 than to your 40,000. His career TDs will be closer to 350 than under 300. And his interceptions may total closer to 235 than to your 210.

Add at least one more SB APPEARANCE, and this dude will be in the elite group of all the great QBs when his career ends.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 05:21 AM
just going off his brother, and a lot of past QBs, i think he's going to enjoy about another 5 years of high production. it seems that its around age 36 that guys start losing the arm and the durability, and the numbers start tanking.

as for where he'll finish, barring some type of disaster, around 40,000 yards, 290 TD, 210 INT over a 15 year career


You're really underestimating how Eli will finish out his career.

For example, he's already at 27,579 yards after 8 years. If, as you posit, he plays a total of 15 seasons (reasonable assumption, though he may play 1-2 years beyond that), in order to reach the 40,000 total you project, he would average only 1857 yards per season over the next 7 years. That's ridiculous.

Likewise, for your TD projection to occur, Eli would average only 15 TDs per year for the next 7 years. Equally absurd.

He may well taper off in stat production his last year or two, but it's not going to drop off a cliff, as your projections suggest.

No, his career yards are going to end up closer to 50,000 than to your 40,000. His career TDs will be closer to 350 than under 300. And his interceptions may total closer to 235 than to your 210.

Add at least one more SB APPEARANCE, and this dude will be in the elite group of all the great QBs when his career ends.

keep in mind hes just entering his prime...the last 8 or so yrs dont represent statistically the level of play he will display these next 6 or 7 plus seasons. i expect these next 5 seasons or so to topple his career avg.s and career bests.

his ability to stay healthy is going to be huge when his numbers add up. like it or leave it, if he keeps this iron man streak going and can keep himself as healthy as he has these past 8 yrs (i know we need the OL to improve before that can be an expected reality) hes gonna be top 5 easily in almost every significant passing categry

Flip Empty
06-12-2012, 05:24 AM
Think about it this way... Eli is one of only a few (I think 4 or 5) QBs to have at least 3k yards and 20+ tds every year for the past 7 years. That's gotta say something about where he stands in stats.

Yeah. I just don't know how I'd never noticed. I knew his stats, but had never added them up like that.

NYG 5
06-12-2012, 09:32 AM
just going off his brother, and a lot of past QBs, i think he's going to enjoy about another 5 years of high production. it seems that its around age 36 that guys start losing the arm and the durability, and the numbers start tanking.

as for where he'll finish, barring some type of disaster, around 40,000 yards, 290 TD, 210 INT over a 15 year career


You're really underestimating how Eli will finish out his career.

For example, he's already at 27,579 yards after 8 years. If, as you posit, he plays a total of 15 seasons (reasonable assumption, though he may play 1-2 years beyond that), in order to reach the 40,000 total you project, he would average only 1857 yards per season over the next 7 years. That's ridiculous.

Likewise, for your TD projection to occur, Eli would average only 15 TDs per year for the next 7 years. Equally absurd.

He may well taper off in stat production his last year or two, but it's not going to drop off a cliff, as your projections suggest.

No, his career yards are going to end up closer to 50,000 than to your 40,000. His career TDs will be closer to 350 than under 300. And his interceptions may total closer to 235 than to your 210.

Add at least one more SB APPEARANCE, and this dude will be in the elite group of all the great QBs when his career ends.

so you think the giants are going to have a turd running game for the rest of his career, so he'll throw for 5000 yards every year from now on? you think he's going to be surrounded with great talent his whole career? to average everything out, you have to look at his 2009 season as the norm.

gumby742
06-12-2012, 10:00 AM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.

Morehead State
06-12-2012, 10:09 AM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless. 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this. These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>

hungrrrry
06-12-2012, 10:40 AM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
He's certainly improving his strike rate but it'll be tough to crack the top 5.Eli was drafted in 2004 so it is very realistic to think he is at the halfway point in his career...2011 was his 7th full season in the nfl

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 12:09 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless.* 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this.* These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>

lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right?

no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments

Flip Empty
06-12-2012, 12:21 PM
so you think the giants are going to have a turd running game for the rest of his career, so he'll throw for 5000 yards every year from now on? you think he's going to be surrounded with great talent his whole career? to average everything out, you have to look at his 2009 season as the norm.

Why 2009? Because it was the year he last threw sub-4000 yards? That's three years ago. The current norm is 4000+ per year.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 12:22 PM
so you think the giants are going to have a turd running game for the rest of his career, so he'll throw for 5000 yards every year from now on? you think he's going to be surrounded with great talent his whole career? to average everything out, you have to look at his 2009 season as the norm.

Why 2009? Because it was the year he last threw sub-4000 yards? That's three years ago. The current norm is 4000+ per year.

he threw for 4k in 09. actually 09 was one of his best seasons...

Flip Empty
06-12-2012, 12:25 PM
so you think the giants are going to have a turd running game for the rest of his career, so he'll throw for 5000 yards every year from now on? you think he's going to be surrounded with great talent his whole career? to average everything out, you have to look at his 2009 season as the norm.

Why 2009? Because it was the year he last threw sub-4000 yards? That's three years ago. The current norm is 4000+ per year.

he threw for 4k in 09. actually 09 was one of his best seasons...
True. Got mixed up there. I was too slow to edit haha

TuckYou
06-12-2012, 12:34 PM
You know how you stop these bad *** offenses from throwing the ball all over the field? A bad *** pass rush, which is why we won 2 of the last 5 superbowls.

JPP
06-12-2012, 02:13 PM
I also see 5000 yards as an anomaly caused by the lockout and our poor defense (for much of the seasons , his highest yards came in the Saints and Seahawks games-both are games we lost) and running game.

I see bright things for the future of the Giants. I see a defense that establishes self as a top 5 defense and our running game improving. I also see Eli getting his INTs down even more and having to throw for less yards because he becomes more efficient. I see him averaging 4000-4200 yards, 30-35 TDs and hopefully 8-12 INTs.

We also don't run up the score so that will play a part.


But the rest of the QB's don't get the same consideration? They all played during a lockout year. I agree we have a more balanced offense so we won't likely see him make a habit of 5000 yards but a lot of those yards came from him throwing us back into games in the 4th quarter and why he had 14 4th Q TDs(he beat Payton and Unitas I think btw only one had a 14 game season). That seahawk game was a pass away from being tied but we have to give you the Saints game and the fact that we don't run up the score. But Eli has really only gotten better farther into his career and Payton as well has stayed great late in his career so if that is any indication we might still see some of the best out of Eli.

Toadofsteel
06-12-2012, 02:29 PM
Maybe he will. I think he is the next best thing after that tier. I just think they better than Eli and I don't see Eli throwing for 40+ TDs ever. Nor do I see many 5000 yd seasons especially because we like balance even though thathas probably shifted towards a bit more passing than running.


In the eyes of fantasy or stat hawks, Eli won't ever surpass those types. But that's also because the Giants aren't the kind of team to run up the score when they're ahead by a lot. They'll just start calling lots of running plays to munch on clock time. All those other QB's (except for maybe Brady) are mostly (if not all) about personal glory. Eli is the total enigma to sports commentators: he plays that leader/star-player position that QB has become in the NFL, but while he is definitely a leader, he has none of that "star" personality. That's why the media hates him. But I'd rather have a guy like that leading my team than someone more out for personal glory...

I already consider Eli superior to Brady based on their head-to-head record. Yes I know that both are not on the field at the same time, but the fact is that Eli got it done when it counted, whereas Brady didn't. Sure Gronk was not at 100%, but they had two weeks to game plan for that. Ballard and Beckum both went down during the game and Eli didn't miss a beat. That's an intangible that doesn't show up on the stat sheets.

Morehead State
06-12-2012, 02:38 PM
so you think the giants are going to have a turd running game for the rest of his career, so he'll throw for 5000 yards every year from now on? you think he's going to be surrounded with great talent his whole career? to average everything out, you have to look at his 2009 season as the norm.
Why 2009? Because it was the year he last threw sub-4000 yards? That's three years ago. The current norm is 4000+ per year. he threw for 4k in 09. actually 09 was one of his best seasons...</P>


How many guys threw for 4000 yards last year. For God's sake a rookie threw for 4000 yards.</P>


The inability to hit a "defensless" receiver is new. The lack of physicality that the defenses are allowed to play with is new.</P>


And it showed last season with the kind of passing that had never been seen in NFL history.</P>


Eli threw for almost 5000 yards and was 4th or 5th in passing yardage.</P>


Again, it seems that you are arguing with me just to argue. I don't see a valid point in your argument.</P>

gumby742
06-12-2012, 02:47 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless.* 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this.* These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>

lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right?

no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments

Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already.

The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on.

It holds plenty of merit.

But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli.

jakegibbs
06-12-2012, 03:16 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless.* 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this.* These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>

lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right?

no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments

Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already.

The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on.

It holds plenty of merit.

But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli.
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2554_A_brief,_fact-filled_history_of_the_NFL_passing_game.html


Very well written article +1

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 03:21 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless.* 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this.* These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>

lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right?

no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments

Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already.

The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on.

It holds plenty of merit.

But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli.

no. what holds no merit is trying to cheapen the success certain qbs are achieving. this view that "oh rule changes, records dont mean nothing, stats mean nothing" is not new.

if it was significant, then why has only 6 qbs acheived 7 yrs str8 of 3k and 20 tds?

why have only 5 qbs thrown for 5k?
etc etc


of course there will be an increase in yardage and other factors, the talent level has climbed from top to bottom.

again, i know you love to try and reduce the opinion of eli and love to find ways to explain away the success he's had...but trying to use a rule change 30 yrs ago isnt gonna cut it...

if ur lil theory held water, there'd be a ton more qbs reaching the milestones the top qbs in the league have reached

oh and btw, thank u again for proven another one of my points. it is almost always the people who claim people to be eli homers that repeatedly focus solely on eli...

dunno if u noticed, but my post clearly applies my logic to all qbs...not just one like ur theories often do...this is a giants forum, not an eli forum gumby, quit focusing and making everything about eli all the time, its getting old

and i dont have to cheapen or alter reality to boost my confidence or try to appear smarter. IF and WHEN other qbs reach the milestones of the best qbs in the league, i'll address it and give credit where credit is due...

edit-and further, the new rules apply to every qb, not just eli. i fail to see how a rule change that applies to every qb playing in the league today should be used to cheapen what only eli has done. u say "will i apply my logic to guys like flacco and ryan"...the question is, why arent YOU applying ur logic to qbs outside of eli?

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 03:22 PM
so you think the giants are going to have a turd running game for the rest of his career, so he'll throw for 5000 yards every year from now on? you think he's going to be surrounded with great talent his whole career? to average everything out, you have to look at his 2009 season as the norm.
Why 2009? Because it was the year he last threw sub-4000 yards? That's three years ago. The current norm is 4000+ per year. he threw for 4k in 09. actually 09 was one of his best seasons...</P>


How many guys threw for 4000 yards last year.* For God's sake a rookie threw for 4000 yards.</P>


The inability to hit a "defensless" receiver is new.* The lack of physicality that the defenses are allowed to play with is new.</P>


And it showed last season with the kind of passing that had never been seen in NFL history.</P>


Eli threw for almost 5000 yards and was 4th or 5th in passing yardage.</P>


Again,* it seems that you are arguing with me just to argue.* I don't see a valid point in your argument.</P>

huh? i know in ur world ur the center of everything, but i wasnt addressing u at all, and eli did have one of his best seasons in 09...u have an issue understanding things huh?

SweetZombieJesus
06-12-2012, 03:29 PM
The old record of 14 was held by a guy who did it in 14 games right?


It was co-held by Peyton (who did it in 16 games) and Johnny Unitas (who did it in 14).


We have been very fortunate Eli hasnt
been hurt seriouslyyet (broken bone, tears or concussion)with all the
hits he has been taking.

Not only that he hasn't missed a career start and we'd be very, very lucky to see Eli make it to his late 30s without an injury. I already think his durability is one of the things that is great about him and almost nobody notices.

Morehead State
06-12-2012, 03:43 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless. 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this. These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>


lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right? no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already. The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on. It holds plenty of merit. But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli. no. what holds no merit is trying to cheapen the success certain qbs are achieving. this view that "oh rule changes, records dont mean nothing, stats mean nothing" is not new. if it was significant, then why has only 6 qbs acheived 7 yrs str8 of 3k and 20 tds? why have only 5 qbs thrown for 5k? etc etc of course there will be an increase in yardage and other factors, the talent level has climbed from top to bottom. again, i know you love to try and reduce the opinion of eli and love to find ways to explain away the success he's had...but trying to use a rule change 30 yrs ago isnt gonna cut it... if ur lil theory held water, there'd be a ton more qbs reaching the milestones the top qbs in the league have reached oh and btw, thank u again for proven another one of my points. it is almost always the people who claim people to be eli homers that repeatedly focus solely on eli... dunno if u noticed, but my post clearly applies my logic to all qbs...not just one like ur theories often do...this is a giants forum, not an eli forum gumby, quit focusing and making everything about eli all the time, its getting old and i dont have to cheapen or alter reality to boost my confidence or try to appear smarter. IF and WHEN other qbs reach the milestones of the best qbs in the league, i'll address it and give credit where credit is due... edit-and further, the new rules apply to every qb, not just eli. i fail to see how a rule change that applies to every qb playing in the league today should be used to cheapen what only eli has done. u say "will i apply my logic to guys like flacco and ryan"...the question is, why arent YOU applying ur logic to qbs outside of eli?</P>


No one is trying to cheapen anything. Its just a fact that in today's NFL, 4000 yards in a season or even 40,000 yards in a career doesn't mean what it used to.</P>


But the greater point I'm making is that passing stats in any era are not especially relavent. They just don't tell the entire story about a QB's career. So many other factors that a QB has no control over have a great effect on those stats.</P>


Give me wins, give me championships but especially give me high quality play. "High quality play" is measured in many different ways.</P>


If stats are as important as you seem to think, then Vinny Testeverde and Steve Deberg would be in the Hall Of Fame.</P>


The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career. I say who gives a ****.</P>

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 03:50 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless.* 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this.* These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>


lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right? no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already. The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on. It holds plenty of merit. But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli. no. what holds no merit is trying to cheapen the success certain qbs are achieving. this view that "oh rule changes, records dont mean nothing, stats mean nothing" is not new. if it was significant, then why has only 6 qbs acheived 7 yrs str8 of 3k and 20 tds? why have only 5 qbs thrown for 5k? etc etc of course there will be an increase in yardage and other factors, the talent level has climbed from top to bottom. again, i know you love to try and reduce the opinion of eli and love to find ways to explain away the success he's had...but trying to use a rule change 30 yrs ago isnt gonna cut it... if ur lil theory held water, there'd be a ton more qbs reaching the milestones the top qbs in the league have reached oh and btw, thank u again for proven another one of my points. it is almost always the people who claim people to be eli homers that repeatedly focus solely on eli... dunno if u noticed, but my post clearly applies my logic to all qbs...not just one like ur theories often do...this is a giants forum, not an eli forum gumby, quit focusing and making everything about eli all the time, its getting old and i dont have to cheapen or alter reality to boost my confidence or try to appear smarter. IF and WHEN other qbs reach the milestones of the best qbs in the league, i'll address it and give credit where credit is due... edit-and further, the new rules apply to every qb, not just eli. i fail to see how a rule change that applies to every qb playing in the league today should be used to cheapen what only eli has done. u say "will i apply my logic to guys like flacco and ryan"...the question is, why arent YOU applying ur logic to qbs outside of eli?</P>


No one is trying to cheapen anything.* Its just a fact that in today's NFL, 4000 yards in a season or even 40,000 yards in a career doesn't mean what it used to.</P>


But the greater point I'm making is that passing stats in any era are not especially relavent.* They just don't tell the entire story about a QB's career.* So many other factors that a QB has no control over have a great effect on those stats.</P>


Give me wins, give me championships but especially give me high quality play.* "High quality play" is measured in many different ways.</P>


If stats are as important as you seem to think, then Vinny Testeverde and Steve Deberg would be in the Hall Of Fame.</P>


The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>

well then me and u r in agreement for once.

im just saying that it isnt rare for a few posters to apply this "new rules" bs to eli, all the while not applying it to other qbs, and all the while not acknowledging that eli, stats or not, is playing and has played at an extremely high level.

SweetZombieJesus
06-12-2012, 03:51 PM
It will be a sad day when Eli retires. :/

Maybe in 20 years when Eli's daughter grows up you won't be allowed to touch the QB and girls will be allowed in the game.

Either that or Eli and Abby should get to work on a boy... ;)

Toadofsteel
06-12-2012, 03:56 PM
It will be a sad day when Eli retires. :/

Maybe in 20 years when Eli's daughter grows up you won't be allowed to touch the QB and girls will be allowed in the game.

Either that or Eli and Abby should get to work on a boy... ;)


No, we have to snag one of Drew Brees's kids... Hey it worked for Archie...

Drez
06-12-2012, 04:01 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</p>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless. 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</p>


You guys got to get off this. These stats mean virtually nothing.</p>

lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right?

no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments

Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already.

The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on.

It holds plenty of merit.

But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli.
Actually, Flacco is lagging behind Eli and is not on pace to surpass him. Ryan is nearly identical to Eli. His per game yards is 1.73 more than Eli. Their TD rates are within .03 per game.

SweetZombieJesus
06-12-2012, 04:01 PM
How many guys threw for 4000 yards last year. For God's sake a rookie threw for 4000 yards.


The inability to hit a "defensless" receiver is new. The lack of physicality that the defenses are allowed to play with is new.</p>


And it showed last season with the kind of passing that had never been seen in NFL history.</p>


Eli threw for almost 5000 yards and was 4th or 5th in passing yardage.</p>
There's another factor nobody's mentioning up and down the line and that's YAC. I really think it needs to be eliminated from the passing yardage tabulation.

What do I mean? Eli throws a 15 yard pass downfield and Victor Cruz runs 80 yards with it to the end zone. Eli gets credit for 99 yards. Not to single out Eli, everybody benefits from it. But Eli didn't throw the ball 99 yards.

Drez
06-12-2012, 04:02 PM
It will be a sad day when Eli retires. :/

Maybe in 20 years when Eli's daughter grows up you won't be allowed to touch the QB and girls will be allowed in the game.

Either that or Eli and Abby should get to work on a boy... ;)


No, we have to snag one of Drew Brees's kids... Hey it worked for Archie...
Why? If the kid is anything like Brees he'd suck here.

Drez
06-12-2012, 04:31 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career. I say who gives a ****.</p>
Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 04:46 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</p>
Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.


well done and said. drez has been on a roll lately with some real informative stats and posts...and of course telling ms not to post in a thread, with a justified reason, is the topping on the ice cream.

Drez
06-12-2012, 04:57 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career. I say who gives a ****.</p>
Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.


well done and said. drez has been on a roll lately with some real informative stats and posts...and of course telling ms not to post in a thread, with a justified reason, is the topping on the ice cream.
Thanks.

To a certain degree he has a point about how passing rules benefit passers more now than they even did 10 years ago, but not so much as trying to compare QBs of today with 30-40 years ago. We all know that the NFL was a completely different beast back then.

But, I mean, if he thinks that it's meaningless to discuss it, fine, then just don't derail the conversation people who are discussing it are having. Especially considering that there weren't any wild or ridiculous claims made. I think the most outlandish one was that Eli is only at the halfway mark of his career instead of just past it or that he might end up top-5 in certain statistical categories.

But, come on. It's June. What the hell else is there to talk about?

EliTE
06-12-2012, 05:47 PM
How many guys threw for 4000 yards last year.* For God's sake a rookie threw for 4000 yards.


The inability to hit a "defensless" receiver is new.* The lack of physicality that the defenses are allowed to play with is new.</p>


And it showed last season with the kind of passing that had never been seen in NFL history.</p>


Eli threw for almost 5000 yards and was 4th or 5th in passing yardage.</p>
There's another factor nobody's mentioning up and down the line and that's YAC.* I really think it needs to be eliminated from the passing yardage tabulation.*

What do I mean?* Eli throws a 15 yard pass downfield and Victor Cruz runs 80 yards with it to the end zone.* Eli gets credit for 99 yards.* Not to single out Eli, everybody benefits from it.* But Eli didn't throw the ball 99 yards.
brees would have low numbers if that were the case since he benefits from so many dump offs or screens to sproles.

eli's numbers however wouldn't suffer much. there was a stat about passes thrown 20+ or 40+ yards down field and eli was tops. so it's not like eli is benefiting more than others from YAC although cruz did have a few big yac plays.

jomo
06-12-2012, 06:00 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties. Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22. He's certainly improving his strike rate but it'll be tough to crack the top 5.I agree on the age perspective but he may only half way in a production way. He won't have any years like his first 2 barring injury and his weapons are far more potent today. I am not big on prognosticating because so many things can change. I am just happy to watch him develop as a QB and leader.

Morehead State
06-12-2012, 07:48 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career. I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me. But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 07:53 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me.* But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>

what do you do when u look in the mirror then? jk jk

Morehead State
06-12-2012, 07:57 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career. I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me. But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>


what do you do when u look in the mirror then? jk jk</P>


I thank God for making me so good looking.</P>


</P>


And you have become so Anti-Morehead that I fear you are in love with me.</P>

Drez
06-12-2012, 08:09 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career. I say who gives a ****.</p>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</p>


You don't know me. But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</p>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</p>
Where was there a wrong?

Just because you don't think the topic merits discussion doesn't mean that others don't.

Again, what was wrong about discussing what we think Eli's stats will be? The sheer ****ing horror.

pino
06-12-2012, 08:24 PM
Eli's 31. I think he's beyond the half-way point. I don't see him playing into his forties.

Yardage - maybe. I don't know about TDs though. Guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees average around 40 per year. Until recently, Eli averaged around 22.
He's certainly improving his strike rate but it'll be tough to crack the top 5.

I understand and agree with the point you made, but Tom Brady and Drew Brees don't average 40 per year. That would be insane. Drew threw for 40+ for the first time last year, and Brady threw 40+ (50 TDs) once during their "perfect" season.

Still a 28-30 TD per year average, which is still incredible.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 08:50 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</p>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</p>


You don't know me.* But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</p>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</p>
Where was there a wrong?

Just because you don't think the topic merits discussion doesn't mean that others don't.

Again, what was wrong about discussing what we think Eli's stats will be? The sheer ****ing horror.


lol...its a travesty talking about eli around here. almost once a threat guaranteed this kinda thing happens...

remember the whole elite thing? some of us called that happening. then when it did, it was treated as a crime to discuss that after he had proven himself and others right...to each their own tho

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 08:53 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me.* But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>


what do you do when u look in the mirror then? jk jk</P>


I thank God for making me so good looking.</P>


*</P>


And you have become so Anti-Morehead that I fear you are in love with me.</P>

fear? cmon now...you know that antsy feeling in the pit of your stomach isn't fear...its hope...

and dude, i was in love with you at "We should have drafted Ben" all those years ago...its why I beg you to come back to planet earth and let me and eli reclaim that spot in your heart before that pretty awful rookie season happened and erased all your hope and joy when you heard "The Giants trade for Eli Manning"

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 08:53 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me.* But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>


what do you do when u look in the mirror then? jk jk</P>


I thank God for making me so good looking.</P>


*</P>


And you have become so Anti-Morehead that I fear you are in love with me.</P>

fear? cmon now...you know that antsy feeling in the pit of your stomach isn't fear...its hope...

and dude, i was in love with you at "We should have drafted Ben" all those years ago...its why I beg you to come back to planet earth and let me and eli reclaim that spot in your heart before that pretty awful rookie season happened and erased all your hope and joy when you heard "The Giants trade for Eli Manning". You took off so quickly and gave up hope on us after a little bit of tough times though, I don't think it could have ever worked out.

chasjay
06-12-2012, 08:54 PM
I think the most outlandish one was that Eli is only at the halfway mark of his career instead of just past it or that he might end up top-5 in certain statistical categories.




I am one of those who made a statement like that, and I don't see how it qualifies as outlandish. Of the top ten QB's in total NFL yardage, nine are retired (eight if you count Kerry Collins, but I think he's done). Only two of those guys played fewer than 16 seasons, which is what Eli would play if he is now halfway there. Vinny played 21, Favre played 20, Tarkenton 18, Kerry Collins and Dan Marino at 17 seasons, Elway and Warren Moon had 16 seasons. Peyton is the only active in the top ten with 14 seasons (2011 not counted). The only two of the top ten to play fewer than 16 were Bledsoe with 14 and Dan Fouts with 15. Unless he sustains a serious injury, there is nothing outlandish about the idea that Eli might have a 16-year career.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 08:55 PM
I think the most outlandish one was that Eli is only at the halfway mark of his career instead of just past it or that he might end up top-5 in certain statistical categories.




I am one of those who made a statement like that, and I don't see how it qualifies as outlandish. Of the top ten QB's in total NFL yardage, nine are retired (eight if you count Kerry Collins, but I think he's done). Only two of those guys played fewer than 16 seasons, which is what Eli would play if he is now halfway there. Vinny played 21, Favre played 20, Tarkenton 18, Kerry Collins and Dan Marino at 17 seasons, Elway and Warren Moon had 16 seasons. Peyton is the only active in the top ten with 14 seasons (2011 not counted). The only two of the top ten to play fewer than 16 were Bledsoe with 14 and Dan Fouts with 15. Unless he sustains a serious injury, there is nothing outlandish about the idea that Eli might have a 16-year career.


i was the other one too lol its ok its his opinion and i dont think he meant it to insult or nothing. i dont think he thinks anythings been absurd when pondering elis future success in this particular thread

Drez
06-12-2012, 09:16 PM
I think the most outlandish one was that Eli is only at the halfway mark of his career instead of just past it or that he might end up top-5 in certain statistical categories.




I am one of those who made a statement like that, and I don't see how it qualifies as outlandish.

That was exactly my point. That the most outlandish statements in this thread hardly qualify as being outlandish.

Morehead State
06-12-2012, 09:36 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career. I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me. But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>


what do you do when u look in the mirror then? jk jk</P>


I thank God for making me so good looking.</P>


</P>


And you have become so Anti-Morehead that I fear you are in love with me.</P>


fear? cmon now...you know that antsy feeling in the pit of your stomach isn't fear...its hope... and dude, i was in love with you at "We should have drafted Ben" all those years ago...its why I beg you to come back to planet earth and let me and eli reclaim that spot in your heart before that pretty awful rookie season happened and erased all your hope and joy when you heard "The Giants trade for Eli Manning". You took off so quickly and gave up hope on us after a little bit of tough times though, I don't think it could have ever worked out.</P>


I wasn't on the boards when we drafted in 2004. Didn't join until 2007. What the hell are you talking about?</P>

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 09:42 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me.* But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>


what do you do when u look in the mirror then? jk jk</P>


I thank God for making me so good looking.</P>


*</P>


And you have become so Anti-Morehead that I fear you are in love with me.</P>


fear? cmon now...you know that antsy feeling in the pit of your stomach isn't fear...its hope... and dude, i was in love with you at "We should have drafted Ben" all those years ago...its why I beg you to come back to planet earth and let me and eli reclaim that spot in your heart before that pretty awful rookie season happened and erased all your hope and joy when you heard "The Giants trade for Eli Manning". You took off so quickly and gave up hope on us after a little bit of tough times though, I don't think it could have ever worked out.</P>


I wasn't on the boards when we drafted in 2004.* Didn't join until 2007.* What the hell are you talking about?</P>

oh im sorry. i guess ur the only one allowed to joke around...

either my attempt at humor was that bad(likely), or its extremely ironic that you, MS, the king of off collar, somewhat weird and gender bending humor lol, couldnt at the least play along when some one else attempted it...in a small way I was trying to extend a peace treaty and u shot it down with your anti ballistic missile system

Morehead State
06-12-2012, 10:09 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career. I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me. But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>


what do you do when u look in the mirror then? jk jk</P>


I thank God for making me so good looking.</P>


</P>


And you have become so Anti-Morehead that I fear you are in love with me.</P>


fear? cmon now...you know that antsy feeling in the pit of your stomach isn't fear...its hope... and dude, i was in love with you at "We should have drafted Ben" all those years ago...its why I beg you to come back to planet earth and let me and eli reclaim that spot in your heart before that pretty awful rookie season happened and erased all your hope and joy when you heard "The Giants trade for Eli Manning". You took off so quickly and gave up hope on us after a little bit of tough times though, I don't think it could have ever worked out.</P>


I wasn't on the boards when we drafted in 2004. Didn't join until 2007. What the hell are you talking about?</P>


oh im sorry. i guess ur the only one allowed to joke around... either my attempt at humor was that bad(likely), or its extremely ironic that you, MS, the king of off collar, somewhat weird and gender bending humor lol, couldnt at the least play along when some one else attempted it...in a small way I was trying to extend a peace treaty and u shot it down with your anti ballistic missile system</P>


I guess it went right over my head. I know you all look up to me but sometimes I don't have smarts real goodly.</P>

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 10:31 PM
The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>



Then don't post in the damned thread, MS.

Relevant or not, there's nothing wrong discussing what we think Eli's stats will be by the time his career ends.

If you don't think it matters, then don't post in a thread about it. No need to piss on the thread just because you think it's meaningless.
</P>


You don't know me.* But if you did, trust me, you would know that its an impossibility.</P>


I see a wrong.....and I must make it right.</P>


what do you do when u look in the mirror then? jk jk</P>


I thank God for making me so good looking.</P>


*</P>


And you have become so Anti-Morehead that I fear you are in love with me.</P>


fear? cmon now...you know that antsy feeling in the pit of your stomach isn't fear...its hope... and dude, i was in love with you at "We should have drafted Ben" all those years ago...its why I beg you to come back to planet earth and let me and eli reclaim that spot in your heart before that pretty awful rookie season happened and erased all your hope and joy when you heard "The Giants trade for Eli Manning". You took off so quickly and gave up hope on us after a little bit of tough times though, I don't think it could have ever worked out.</P>


I wasn't on the boards when we drafted in 2004.* Didn't join until 2007.* What the hell are you talking about?</P>


oh im sorry. i guess ur the only one allowed to joke around... either my attempt at humor was that bad(likely), or its extremely ironic that you, MS, the king of off collar, somewhat weird and gender bending humor lol, couldnt at the least play along when some one else attempted it...in a small way I was trying to extend a peace treaty and u shot it down with your anti ballistic missile system</P>


I guess it went right over my head.** I know you all look up to me but sometimes I don't have smarts real goodly.</P>

dont kid yourself. we all already knew that...

(attempt 2, try try again and all that j***)

gumby742
06-12-2012, 10:36 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless.* 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this.* These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>


lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right? no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already. The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on. It holds plenty of merit. But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli. no. what holds no merit is trying to cheapen the success certain qbs are achieving. this view that "oh rule changes, records dont mean nothing, stats mean nothing" is not new. if it was significant, then why has only 6 qbs acheived 7 yrs str8 of 3k and 20 tds? why have only 5 qbs thrown for 5k? etc etc of course there will be an increase in yardage and other factors, the talent level has climbed from top to bottom. again, i know you love to try and reduce the opinion of eli and love to find ways to explain away the success he's had...but trying to use a rule change 30 yrs ago isnt gonna cut it... if ur lil theory held water, there'd be a ton more qbs reaching the milestones the top qbs in the league have reached oh and btw, thank u again for proven another one of my points. it is almost always the people who claim people to be eli homers that repeatedly focus solely on eli... dunno if u noticed, but my post clearly applies my logic to all qbs...not just one like ur theories often do...this is a giants forum, not an eli forum gumby, quit focusing and making everything about eli all the time, its getting old and i dont have to cheapen or alter reality to boost my confidence or try to appear smarter. IF and WHEN other qbs reach the milestones of the best qbs in the league, i'll address it and give credit where credit is due... edit-and further, the new rules apply to every qb, not just eli. i fail to see how a rule change that applies to every qb playing in the league today should be used to cheapen what only eli has done. u say "will i apply my logic to guys like flacco and ryan"...the question is, why arent YOU applying ur logic to qbs outside of eli?</P>


No one is trying to cheapen anything.* Its just a fact that in today's NFL, 4000 yards in a season or even 40,000 yards in a career doesn't mean what it used to.</P>


But the greater point I'm making is that passing stats in any era are not especially relavent.* They just don't tell the entire story about a QB's career.* So many other factors that a QB has no control over have a great effect on those stats.</P>


Give me wins, give me championships but especially give me high quality play.* "High quality play" is measured in many different ways.</P>


If stats are as important as you seem to think, then Vinny Testeverde and Steve Deberg would be in the Hall Of Fame.</P>


The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>

well then me and u r in agreement for once.

im just saying that it isnt rare for a few posters to apply this "new rules" bs to eli, all the while not applying it to other qbs, and all the while not acknowledging that eli, stats or not, is playing and has played at an extremely high level.

I'll respond this this thread instead of your other one because MS pretty much said what I was going to say.

In short, I couldn't give 2 ****s about Eli and how he compares to other QBs. What makes Eli fun to talk about are his fans. Very similar to why Tebow is such a popular topic to talk about.

You think I have it out just for Eli? I think Brees breaking Marino's record is absolute **** too. And it was also when his TD/season record was broken by Peyton. After all this time, with the league becoming a passing league, and only now was his record broken. Marino was the freaking man.

You need to stop being so defensive about Eli. He had a great season. People are giving him his due. So now that people are "cheapening" his stats by saying QBs of this time have inflated stats compared to years past, you're having a cow? Relax dude.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 10:43 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless.* 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this.* These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>


lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right? no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already. The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on. It holds plenty of merit. But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli. no. what holds no merit is trying to cheapen the success certain qbs are achieving. this view that "oh rule changes, records dont mean nothing, stats mean nothing" is not new. if it was significant, then why has only 6 qbs acheived 7 yrs str8 of 3k and 20 tds? why have only 5 qbs thrown for 5k? etc etc of course there will be an increase in yardage and other factors, the talent level has climbed from top to bottom. again, i know you love to try and reduce the opinion of eli and love to find ways to explain away the success he's had...but trying to use a rule change 30 yrs ago isnt gonna cut it... if ur lil theory held water, there'd be a ton more qbs reaching the milestones the top qbs in the league have reached oh and btw, thank u again for proven another one of my points. it is almost always the people who claim people to be eli homers that repeatedly focus solely on eli... dunno if u noticed, but my post clearly applies my logic to all qbs...not just one like ur theories often do...this is a giants forum, not an eli forum gumby, quit focusing and making everything about eli all the time, its getting old and i dont have to cheapen or alter reality to boost my confidence or try to appear smarter. IF and WHEN other qbs reach the milestones of the best qbs in the league, i'll address it and give credit where credit is due... edit-and further, the new rules apply to every qb, not just eli. i fail to see how a rule change that applies to every qb playing in the league today should be used to cheapen what only eli has done. u say "will i apply my logic to guys like flacco and ryan"...the question is, why arent YOU applying ur logic to qbs outside of eli?</P>


No one is trying to cheapen anything.* Its just a fact that in today's NFL, 4000 yards in a season or even 40,000 yards in a career doesn't mean what it used to.</P>


But the greater point I'm making is that passing stats in any era are not especially relavent.* They just don't tell the entire story about a QB's career.* So many other factors that a QB has no control over have a great effect on those stats.</P>


Give me wins, give me championships but especially give me high quality play.* "High quality play" is measured in many different ways.</P>


If stats are as important as you seem to think, then Vinny Testeverde and Steve Deberg would be in the Hall Of Fame.</P>


The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>

well then me and u r in agreement for once.

im just saying that it isnt rare for a few posters to apply this "new rules" bs to eli, all the while not applying it to other qbs, and all the while not acknowledging that eli, stats or not, is playing and has played at an extremely high level.

I'll respond this this thread instead of your other one because MS pretty much said what I was going to say.

In short, I couldn't give 2 ****s about Eli and how he compares to other QBs. What makes Eli fun to talk about are his fans. Very similar to why Tebow is such a popular topic to talk about.

You think I have it out just for Eli? I think Brees breaking Marino's record is absolute **** too. And it was also when his TD/season record was broken by Peyton. After all this time, with the league becoming a passing league, and only now was his record broken. Marino was the freaking man.

You need to stop being so defensive about Eli. He had a great season. People are giving him his due. So now that people are "cheapening" his stats by saying QBs of this time have inflated stats compared to years past, you're having a cow? Relax dude.

what? your a walking contradiction. you enjoy discussing eli yet for some reason are always telling others to stop talking about him and how stupid it is to do so...

maybe you should stop being so offensive with your posting or stating your stance...granted, i have my history with 2 or 3 posters, but they've been resolved for the most part. you always have some one new questioning a lot of your claims and disagreeing with them...like it gets to intense levels, and its pretty common actually.

i could give 2 ****s what your feeling on eli is. sure i enjoy debating u when the opportunity arises, and i've never had an issue with anyones opinion of eli no matter how tough it may be truth be told. its only when its the "oh stop talking about eli." "drop it its stupid discussing eli is pointless and stupid."

I have no issue getting into a debate when its with some one whose always moving the goalposts back like yourself. i havent even stated anything besides my opinion on the matter anyways so why would i need to stop being so defensive? im allowed to do that too u know...

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 10:45 PM
just bc i disagree and think ur application of "the new rule change(30 yr old rule change) favors offenses and elis stats arent reflective of how well he performed last season" is incorrect. im not offended at all, in the least.

are u?

edit-and if u just read through the very thread u quoted, its clear that i just posted my opinion.

you, as usual, made a condescending and instigating remark "this isnt eli forum, although you've been there"...which is ironic bc i wasnt even discussing eli, i was discussing the qbs in todays era

maybe the issues that constantly arise arent everyone else...maybe theyre with u?? im not offended at all, implying im offended is another condescending, instigating remark and has no bearing on the actual subject. lets try and stick to that

gumby742
06-12-2012, 11:14 PM
To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats.</P>


In the new NFL, these stats are meaningless.* 40,000 yards will be a normal output for a career starter.</P>


You guys got to get off this.* These stats mean virtually nothing.</P>


lmfao. bc the rule changes that gives the passing game the advantage happened a year or two ago right? no, wait, its been like 30 yrs or so now...and yet, ur assertion that all these records and stats are due to the shift in the game has no merit...the top qbs of any generation are going to produce numbers that stand out, theres no reason to cheapen elis, or any recent qbs accomplishments Read the link in my Signature. Not to the Eli forums, I know you've been there already. The trend dating back to ages ago is that teams are passing for more and more and more yards as time goes on. It holds plenty of merit. But let's play a game and say I agree with you that the subtle and not so subtle changes to the passing game hold no merit. So if you want to give Eli all this credit, are you willing to do the same, if not more when it comes to Ryan, Flacco, etc? After all, they're on pace to surpass Eli. no. what holds no merit is trying to cheapen the success certain qbs are achieving. this view that "oh rule changes, records dont mean nothing, stats mean nothing" is not new. if it was significant, then why has only 6 qbs acheived 7 yrs str8 of 3k and 20 tds? why have only 5 qbs thrown for 5k? etc etc of course there will be an increase in yardage and other factors, the talent level has climbed from top to bottom. again, i know you love to try and reduce the opinion of eli and love to find ways to explain away the success he's had...but trying to use a rule change 30 yrs ago isnt gonna cut it... if ur lil theory held water, there'd be a ton more qbs reaching the milestones the top qbs in the league have reached oh and btw, thank u again for proven another one of my points. it is almost always the people who claim people to be eli homers that repeatedly focus solely on eli... dunno if u noticed, but my post clearly applies my logic to all qbs...not just one like ur theories often do...this is a giants forum, not an eli forum gumby, quit focusing and making everything about eli all the time, its getting old and i dont have to cheapen or alter reality to boost my confidence or try to appear smarter. IF and WHEN other qbs reach the milestones of the best qbs in the league, i'll address it and give credit where credit is due... edit-and further, the new rules apply to every qb, not just eli. i fail to see how a rule change that applies to every qb playing in the league today should be used to cheapen what only eli has done. u say "will i apply my logic to guys like flacco and ryan"...the question is, why arent YOU applying ur logic to qbs outside of eli?</P>


No one is trying to cheapen anything.* Its just a fact that in today's NFL, 4000 yards in a season or even 40,000 yards in a career doesn't mean what it used to.</P>


But the greater point I'm making is that passing stats in any era are not especially relavent.* They just don't tell the entire story about a QB's career.* So many other factors that a QB has no control over have a great effect on those stats.</P>


Give me wins, give me championships but especially give me high quality play.* "High quality play" is measured in many different ways.</P>


If stats are as important as you seem to think, then Vinny Testeverde and Steve Deberg would be in the Hall Of Fame.</P>


The premise of this thread is the anticipation of what kind of stats Eli will accumulate over his career.* I say who gives a ****.</P>

well then me and u r in agreement for once.

im just saying that it isnt rare for a few posters to apply this "new rules" bs to eli, all the while not applying it to other qbs, and all the while not acknowledging that eli, stats or not, is playing and has played at an extremely high level.

I'll respond this this thread instead of your other one because MS pretty much said what I was going to say.

In short, I couldn't give 2 ****s about Eli and how he compares to other QBs. What makes Eli fun to talk about are his fans. Very similar to why Tebow is such a popular topic to talk about.

You think I have it out just for Eli? I think Brees breaking Marino's record is absolute **** too. And it was also when his TD/season record was broken by Peyton. After all this time, with the league becoming a passing league, and only now was his record broken. Marino was the freaking man.

You need to stop being so defensive about Eli. He had a great season. People are giving him his due. So now that people are "cheapening" his stats by saying QBs of this time have inflated stats compared to years past, you're having a cow? Relax dude.

what? your a walking contradiction. you enjoy discussing eli yet for some reason are always telling others to stop talking about him and how stupid it is to do so...

maybe you should stop being so offensive with your posting or stating your stance...granted, i have my history with 2 or 3 posters, but they've been resolved for the most part. you always have some one new questioning a lot of your claims and disagreeing with them...like it gets to intense levels, and its pretty common actually.

i could give 2 ****s what your feeling on eli is. sure i enjoy debating u when the opportunity arises, and i've never had an issue with anyones opinion of eli no matter how tough it may be truth be told. its only when its the "oh stop talking about eli." "drop it its stupid discussing eli is pointless and stupid."

I have no issue getting into a debate when its with some one whose always moving the goalposts back like yourself. i havent even stated anything besides my opinion on the matter anyways so why would i need to stop being so defensive? im allowed to do that too u know...

offensive posts? I think condescending is a better word. I think it only applies to Eli though. For whatever reason, I can't let the fact that some idiot decides to prove that Eli is better by using some statistic that he came up with, slide. And, i have some neurosis where if I see a double standard I need to point it out.

I do seem to recall saying that there is no point in debating whether Eli is a top 5 QB now. But other than that one time many months ago, i can't seem to remember another.

Drez
06-12-2012, 11:34 PM
]

offensive posts? I think condescending is a better word. I think it only applies to Eli though. For whatever reason, I can't let the fact that some idiot decides to prove that Eli is better by using some statistic that he came up with, slide. And, i have some neurosis where if I see a double standard I need to point it out.

I do seem to recall saying that there is no point in debating whether Eli is a top 5 QB now. But other than that one time many months ago, i can't seem to remember another.
Tell me where in this thread someone tried making this an, "Eli is better than X," thread outside of talking about how his end of career stats will match up with others?

Gumby, you truly are the one with the Eli obsession and not the other way around.

gmen46
06-13-2012, 02:31 AM
just going off his brother, and a lot of past QBs, i think he's going to enjoy about another 5 years of high production. it seems that its around age 36 that guys start losing the arm and the durability, and the numbers start tanking.

as for where he'll finish, barring some type of disaster, around 40,000 yards, 290 TD, 210 INT over a 15 year career


You're really underestimating how Eli will finish out his career.

For example, he's already at 27,579 yards after 8 years. If, as you posit, he plays a total of 15 seasons (reasonable assumption, though he may play 1-2 years beyond that), in order to reach the 40,000 total you project, he would average only 1857 yards per season over the next 7 years. That's ridiculous.

Likewise, for your TD projection to occur, Eli would average only 15 TDs per year for the next 7 years. Equally absurd.

He may well taper off in stat production his last year or two, but it's not going to drop off a cliff, as your projections suggest.

No, his career yards are going to end up closer to 50,000 than to your 40,000. His career TDs will be closer to 350 than under 300. And his interceptions may total closer to 235 than to your 210.

Add at least one more SB APPEARANCE, and this dude will be in the elite group of all the great QBs when his career ends.

so you think the giants are going to have a turd running game for the rest of his career, so he'll throw for 5000 yards every year from now on? you think he's going to be surrounded with great talent his whole career? to average everything out, you have to look at his 2009 season as the norm.



Your math is lousy. I'm actually being extremely conservative in projecting his career yardage total to be around 50,000. That's guessing his average over the next 7 years will be @ 3200 yds per. He's already over 27,000.

Most likely he will blow right past that 50k mark. He could very easily average closer to 3900-4000 per, for next 5 years at least.

gumby742
06-13-2012, 08:42 AM
] offensive posts? I think condescending is a better word. I think it only applies to Eli though. For whatever reason, I can't let the fact that some idiot decides to prove that Eli is better by using some statistic that he came up with, slide. And, i have some neurosis where if I see a double standard I need to point it out. I do seem to recall saying that there is no point in debating whether Eli is a top 5 QB now. But other than that one time many months ago, i can't seem to remember another.
Tell me where in this thread someone tried making this an, "Eli is better than X," thread outside of talking about how his end of career stats will match up with others?

Gumby, you truly are the one with the Eli obsession and not the other way around.
</P>


You might want to read the context in which I said it. </P>

Drez
06-13-2012, 05:20 PM
] offensive posts? I think condescending is a better word. I think it only applies to Eli though. For whatever reason, I can't let the fact that some idiot decides to prove that Eli is better by using some statistic that he came up with, slide. And, i have some neurosis where if I see a double standard I need to point it out. I do seem to recall saying that there is no point in debating whether Eli is a top 5 QB now. But other than that one time many months ago, i can't seem to remember another.
Tell me where in this thread someone tried making this an, "Eli is better than X," thread outside of talking about how his end of career stats will match up with others?

Gumby, you truly are the one with the Eli obsession and not the other way around.
</p>


You might want to read the context in which I said it. </p>
You mean the, "Whenever someone says anything positive about Eli I must counter it by saying that that person is either skewing stats, discussing something irrelevant, judging Eli on a double standard, etc., because I just don't really like Eli much," context?

giantsfan39
06-13-2012, 05:23 PM
just going off his brother, and a lot of past QBs, i think he's going to enjoy about another 5 years of high production. it seems that its around age 36 that guys start losing the arm and the durability, and the numbers start tanking.

as for where he'll finish, barring some type of disaster, around 40,000 yards, 290 TD, 210 INT over a 15 year career


That is a horrible TD-INT ratio.

giantsfan39
06-13-2012, 05:29 PM
Maybe he will. I think he is the next best thing after that tier. I just think they better than Eli and I don't see Eli throwing for 40+ TDs ever. Nor do I see many 5000 yd seasons especially because we like balance even though thathas probably shifted towards a bit more passing than running.


In the eyes of fantasy or stat hawks, Eli won't ever surpass those types. But that's also because the Giants aren't the kind of team to run up the score when they're ahead by a lot. They'll just start calling lots of running plays to munch on clock time. All those other QB's (except for maybe Brady) are mostly (if not all) about personal glory. Eli is the total enigma to sports commentators: he plays that leader/star-player position that QB has become in the NFL, but while he is definitely a leader, he has none of that "star" personality. That's why the media hates him. But I'd rather have a guy like that leading my team than someone more out for personal glory...

I already consider Eli superior to Brady based on their head-to-head record. Yes I know that both are not on the field at the same time, but the fact is that Eli got it done when it counted, whereas Brady didn't. Sure Gronk was not at 100%, but they had two weeks to game plan for that. Ballard and Beckum both went down during the game and Eli didn't miss a beat. That's an intangible that doesn't show up on the stat sheets.

Gronk is the Pats most valuable asset. Ballard and Beckum are Eli's what 4th and 5th maybe 6th most valuable assets considering even Jacobs and Bradshaw did more for the passing game than Beckum.

Drez
06-13-2012, 05:32 PM
just going off his brother, and a lot of past QBs, i think he's going to enjoy about another 5 years of high production. it seems that its around age 36 that guys start losing the arm and the durability, and the numbers start tanking.

as for where he'll finish, barring some type of disaster, around 40,000 yards, 290 TD, 210 INT over a 15 year career


That is a horrible TD-INT ratio.


That's actually fairly close to what his ratio is now. But, I'm assuming his ratio will drop over the rest of his career, as I don't see anymore 20+ pick seasons.

giantsfan39
06-13-2012, 05:33 PM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

Drez
06-13-2012, 05:37 PM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

True, it doesn't mean as much, at least not when comparing it to QBs from much before the late 90's. But, I believe when you measure his stats at the end of his career they will compare favorably to the best of his era.

gumby742
06-13-2012, 10:11 PM
] offensive posts? I think condescending is a better word. I think it only applies to Eli though. For whatever reason, I can't let the fact that some idiot decides to prove that Eli is better by using some statistic that he came up with, slide. And, i have some neurosis where if I see a double standard I need to point it out. I do seem to recall saying that there is no point in debating whether Eli is a top 5 QB now. But other than that one time many months ago, i can't seem to remember another.
Tell me where in this thread someone tried making this an, "Eli is better than X," thread outside of talking about how his end of career stats will match up with others?

Gumby, you truly are the one with the Eli obsession and not the other way around.
</p>


You might want to read the context in which I said it.* </p>
You mean the, "Whenever someone says anything positive about Eli I must counter it by saying that that person is either skewing stats, discussing something irrelevant, judging Eli on a double standard, etc., because I just don't really like Eli much," context?


Not that context, but just replace the bold section with "because Eli fanatics are just so much fun. Tim Tebow fanatic fun." That might be a bit more accurate.

giantsfan39
06-13-2012, 11:25 PM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

True, it doesn't mean as much, at least not when comparing it to QBs from much before the late 90's. But, I believe when you measure his stats at the end of his career they will compare favorably to the best of his era.


Yes&gt; like I aid if he averages about 4000 yards and play another 7-8 years than is 55 to 60k. At this point he just needs 4 or 5 more good (not even great) regular seasons and he makes the Hall of fame.

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 08:38 AM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

True, it doesn't mean as much, at least not when comparing it to QBs from much before the late 90's. But, I believe when you measure his stats at the end of his career they will compare favorably to the best of his era.


Yes&gt; like I aid if he averages about 4000 yards and play another 7-8 years than is 55 to 60k. At this point he just needs 4 or 5 more good (not even great) regular seasons and he makes the Hall of fame.
</P>


So in your view you have to be "good not great" to be a Hall of Famer?</P>

NYG 5
06-14-2012, 09:31 AM
just going off his brother, and a lot of past QBs, i think he's going to enjoy about another 5 years of high production. it seems that its around age 36 that guys start losing the arm and the durability, and the numbers start tanking.

as for where he'll finish, barring some type of disaster, around 40,000 yards, 290 TD, 210 INT over a 15 year career


You're really underestimating how Eli will finish out his career.

For example, he's already at 27,579 yards after 8 years. If, as you posit, he plays a total of 15 seasons (reasonable assumption, though he may play 1-2 years beyond that), in order to reach the 40,000 total you project, he would average only 1857 yards per season over the next 7 years. That's ridiculous.

Likewise, for your TD projection to occur, Eli would average only 15 TDs per year for the next 7 years. Equally absurd.

He may well taper off in stat production his last year or two, but it's not going to drop off a cliff, as your projections suggest.

No, his career yards are going to end up closer to 50,000 than to your 40,000. His career TDs will be closer to 350 than under 300. And his interceptions may total closer to 235 than to your 210.

Add at least one more SB APPEARANCE, and this dude will be in the elite group of all the great QBs when his career ends.

so you think the giants are going to have a turd running game for the rest of his career, so he'll throw for 5000 yards every year from now on? you think he's going to be surrounded with great talent his whole career? to average everything out, you have to look at his 2009 season as the norm.



Your math is lousy. I'm actually being extremely conservative in projecting his career yardage total to be around 50,000. That's guessing his average over the next 7 years will be @ 3200 yds per. He's already over 27,000.

Most likely he will blow right past that 50k mark. He could very easily average closer to 3900-4000 per, for next 5 years at least.

i concede, idk why i put down 40000. i was going off him throwing around 4000 yards for the next 5 years, then around 3,300 from age 36-39.

but i don't think he's going to be rolling off many 5000 yard seasons, and you'll see it when we start getting guys running close to 1000 yards again. the guy threw almost 600 times this year, thats an anomaly.

Drez
06-14-2012, 09:34 AM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

True, it doesn't mean as much, at least not when comparing it to QBs from much before the late 90's. But, I believe when you measure his stats at the end of his career they will compare favorably to the best of his era.


Yes> like I aid if he averages about 4000 yards and play another 7-8 years than is 55 to 60k. At this point he just needs 4 or 5 more good (not even great) regular seasons and he makes the Hall of fame.
</P>


So in your view you have to be "good not great" to be a Hall of Famer?</P>Didn't you say stats don't mean anything?

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 09:45 AM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

True, it doesn't mean as much, at least not when comparing it to QBs from much before the late 90's. But, I believe when you measure his stats at the end of his career they will compare favorably to the best of his era.


Yes> like I aid if he averages about 4000 yards and play another 7-8 years than is 55 to 60k. At this point he just needs 4 or 5 more good (not even great) regular seasons and he makes the Hall of fame.
</P>


So in your view you have to be "good not great" to be a Hall of Famer?</P>

seeing as how every qb to win the sb mvp more than once made the HoF, and that eli already has several prolific NFL records, eli probably does only need to play at a good and not necessarily great level...one could argue elis already accomplished the things needed to make the HoF, he just needs to beef up his stats a little.

Redeyejedi
06-14-2012, 10:03 AM
Andre Brown ?@drebrown35
Me Sneeze in Meetings Silence Eli Sneeze in the meetings God bless you, the whole room

NYG 5
06-14-2012, 11:58 AM
Andre Brown ?@drebrown35
Me Sneeze in Meetings Silence Eli Sneeze in the meetings God bless you, the whole room

LMAO, the Cult of Eli

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 12:33 PM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

True, it doesn't mean as much, at least not when comparing it to QBs from much before the late 90's. But, I believe when you measure his stats at the end of his career they will compare favorably to the best of his era.


Yes&gt; like I aid if he averages about 4000 yards and play another 7-8 years than is 55 to 60k. At this point he just needs 4 or 5 more good (not even great) regular seasons and he makes the Hall of fame.
</P>


So in your view you have to be "good not great" to be a Hall of Famer?</P>


seeing as how every qb to win the sb mvp more than once made the HoF, and that eli already has several prolific NFL records, eli probably does only need to play at a good and not necessarily great level...one could argue elis already accomplished the things needed to make the HoF, he just needs to beef up his stats a little.</P>


Jim Plunkett. won 2 SB's.</P>

lawl
06-14-2012, 12:47 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him.

Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers.

they're just going to keep inflating

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 12:48 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</P>


</P>

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 12:58 PM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

True, it doesn't mean as much, at least not when comparing it to QBs from much before the late 90's. But, I believe when you measure his stats at the end of his career they will compare favorably to the best of his era.


Yes> like I aid if he averages about 4000 yards and play another 7-8 years than is 55 to 60k. At this point he just needs 4 or 5 more good (not even great) regular seasons and he makes the Hall of fame.
</P>


So in your view you have to be "good not great" to be a Hall of Famer?</P>


seeing as how every qb to win the sb mvp more than once made the HoF, and that eli already has several prolific NFL records, eli probably does only need to play at a good and not necessarily great level...one could argue elis already accomplished the things needed to make the HoF, he just needs to beef up his stats a little.</P>


Jim Plunkett. won 2 SB's.</P>

and thats why i said two sb MVPs...just in case u glossed over the post.

i didnt state my opinion on the matter, i was just stating that it could be a valid argument that elis already got the accomplishments that gets a player into the HoF, he just needs to pad his stats some, which he could do with good play.

i know it annoys u to think elis already got a ticket to the HoF and that so many people know this to be true, and that people discuss it here, but u better get used to it.
He is going to the Hall....he already owns some prolific nfl records, he has a few accomplishments that every other player to do what he had done is in the Hall, and he has a ton of time to guarantee a mantle at the hall even if he hasnt won over everyone yet...

once he got that 2nd sb mvp tho, it pretty much guaranteed he'll go in. and the two sbs, the manner in which they were won and the teams they were against are the stuff of legends, and the people who vote for the hall value those legendary heroic type dramas heavily...ex namaith and the guarantee cemented him going to the HoF bc of who the game was against and the importance of it...

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 01:00 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly.* The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r.* My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB.* Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011.* There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB.** </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000.* It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with.* It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers.* I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg.** None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play".* Its not baseball.* When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own.* Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience.* Football is different.* Football is the ultimate team game.* Stop with the "stats" nonsense.* Go by what you see on the field.</P>


*</P>

lmfao. i needed a good laugh.

eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED.

he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records...

yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were.
lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious...

eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot

gumby742
06-14-2012, 02:00 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</P>


</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


From your previous posts, I'm wondering what these prolific passing records Eli holds are.</P>

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 02:01 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</P>


</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold? His performance prior to this past season was very good. A legit starting QB. But hardly HOF quality. His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up. I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough. We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot. Its like the friggin thought police. Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season. He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB. He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well. Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best. Now I put him at #5. The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard. The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap. Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 02:10 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly.* The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r.* My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB.* Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011.* There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB.** </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000.* It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with.* It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers.* I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg.** None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play".* Its not baseball.* When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own.* Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience.* Football is different.* Football is the ultimate team game.* Stop with the "stats" nonsense.* Go by what you see on the field.</P>


*</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold?*** His performance prior to this past season was very good.* A legit starting QB.* But hardly HOF quality.* His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up.* I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough.* We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot.* Its like the friggin thought police.* Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season.* He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB.* He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well.* Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best.* Now I put him at #5.* The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard.* The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap.* Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>

ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm.

and some of his prolific passing records:
15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton.
1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps
1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons
6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one.
7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time
hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc
3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing
highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time)
most consecutive completions to start a sb


all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning.

the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot

and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career.

edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol

Drez
06-14-2012, 04:33 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him.

Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers.

they're just going to keep inflating
Flacco isn't on pace to out gain Eli. Ryan and Eli are almost dead even. If Stafford can stay healthy, then he probably will, and Rodgers almost certainly will.

Drez
06-14-2012, 04:35 PM
And yes 40000 doesn't mean much anymore. Of course Eli is still great and imo Eli will be closer to 60000.

True, it doesn't mean as much, at least not when comparing it to QBs from much before the late 90's. But, I believe when you measure his stats at the end of his career they will compare favorably to the best of his era.


Yes&gt; like I aid if he averages about 4000 yards and play another 7-8 years than is 55 to 60k. At this point he just needs 4 or 5 more good (not even great) regular seasons and he makes the Hall of fame.
</p>


So in your view you have to be "good not great" to be a Hall of Famer?</p>


seeing as how every qb to win the sb mvp more than once made the HoF, and that eli already has several prolific NFL records, eli probably does only need to play at a good and not necessarily great level...one could argue elis already accomplished the things needed to make the HoF, he just needs to beef up his stats a little.</p>


Jim Plunkett. won 2 SB's.</p>
He said QBs to win more than one SB <u>MVP</u>'s, not SB's. Also, Plunkett is the sole multiple SB winning QB to NOT be in the HoF. Very poor example, MS.

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 04:41 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him.

Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers.

they're just going to keep inflating
Flacco isn't on pace to out gain Eli. Ryan and Eli are almost dead even. If Stafford can stay healthy, then he probably will, and Rodgers almost certainly will.


what? not even close imho. staffords missed several seasons and rodgers didnt start for hist first 3 yrs. at the same points in their careers they are nowhere near eli.
flacco may be close but i doubt he even is ahead of eli in any category at the same point for both careers

and this is important to consider too bc in terms of total career numbers, eli is going to have better or more of numbers than those guys bc eli in effect has a 3 yr head start on rodgers and however many seasons for stafford...etc etc

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 04:45 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</P>


</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold? His performance prior to this past season was very good. A legit starting QB. But hardly HOF quality. His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up. I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough. We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot. Its like the friggin thought police. Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season. He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB. He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well. Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best. Now I put him at #5. The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard. The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap. Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>


ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm. and some of his prolific passing records: 15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton. 1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps 1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons 6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one. 7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc 3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time) most consecutive completions to start a sb all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning. the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career. edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol</P>


OMG!!!</P>


These are these specific stats that any QB can amass. I mean I love Eli, but "most wins in months that have 8 or more letters" stuff. Spare me.</P>


Eli is a fine QB. He stepped up his game tremendously in 2011. I'm very proud of him. He followed the advice of his Head Coach when he said in Indy in Feb. of 2011 that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks. That he needed to protect the ball better. Which is EXACTLY what I had been saying here and getting killed for it. TC and Morehead were in agreement. Actually, include Eli in that since he obvioulsy took steps to correct it.</P>


So thats Eli, TC and Morehead on one side (The good guys) and 420 on the other. (<U>pretty</U> good guy)</P>


I said <U>until last year</U> he was not a HOF player. I doubt anyone without an Eli poster over their bed would have argued that point. To say he was one of the top QB's in the NFL before last season is absolute homer drivel. Its OK, because you are a homer driveler. (if driveler is a word. If it is...you're it)</P>


I say all of this with love in my heart for a fellow Giants fan. (albeit a tad misguided)</P>

giantman8493
06-14-2012, 04:45 PM
flacco sucks

Drez
06-14-2012, 04:50 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</p>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </p>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</p>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</p>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</p>


</p>
Yes, this argument is silly MS, because the sole purpose of the OP was to wonder where on the all time list Eli might end up the major passing categories. It wasn't a debate about whether or not he'd be a HoFer or the validity of said stats, just a bored offseason musing about our QB.

You, however, had to turn it into something more than that, and frankly there was no reason for this thread to have gone much beyond speculating what Eli's end of career stats would look like.

Would you object if we wondered how many sacks JPP might have in his career or how many TD receptions Cruz or Nicks would have?

The problem is that you and some posters like Gumby just have trouble letting anything positive to be said about Eli without turning it into something more than it truly needs to be (or less depending on how you want to look at it, lol).

And it appears you're fighting ghosts in this thread, too. Where was anyone tearing down other QBs in this thread (other than maybe me saying that Brees' son, if anything like him, wouldn't do well playing outdoors... Which is true, as Brees doesn't play nearly as well in the elements)?

So then, let's look at Eli's "quality of play." 8 years in the NFL, 5 trips to the postseason, 2 SB MVPs. 2 Pro Bowl nods (yes, again "meaningless"), outside of his rookie year only 2 seasons not making it to the playoffs, never had a losing record as a full season starter, longest active and third longest all time consecutive start streak for QBs, 6th highest single season yards, one of only 4 or 5 QBs to post 7 consecutive years of 3k+ yards and 20+ TDs (but this group will get longer). And that's just off the top of my head.

And again, seeing as you completely missed the point of this thread, we aren't trying to "justify" anything by using meaningless stats, we were just musing where Eli's meaningless stats might rank on the list of others meaningless stats.

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 04:54 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him. Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers. they're just going to keep inflating
Flacco isn't on pace to out gain Eli. Ryan and Eli are almost dead even. If Stafford can stay healthy, then he probably will, and Rodgers almost certainly will.
</P>


Joe Flacco's first 4 years (only 4 years) in the NFL</P>


44 wins 20 losses 60.8 comp. % 13816 yards 80 TD's 46 Int's.</P>


Eli Manning's 1st four years</P>


30 wins 25 losses 54.68 comp. % 11385 yards 77 TD's 64 Int's.</P>


In EVERY catagory Flacco is ahead of Eli's pace.</P>


Don't get me wrong, I think Eli is a better player than Flacco. But be careful with your statements that are factually incorrect.</P>

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 04:57 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly.* The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r.* My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB.* Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011.* There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB.** </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000.* It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with.* It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers.* I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg.** None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play".* Its not baseball.* When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own.* Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience.* Football is different.* Football is the ultimate team game.* Stop with the "stats" nonsense.* Go by what you see on the field.</P>


*</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold?*** His performance prior to this past season was very good.* A legit starting QB.* But hardly HOF quality.* His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up.* I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough.* We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot.* Its like the friggin thought police.* Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season.* He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB.* He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well.* Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best.* Now I put him at #5.* The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard.* The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap.* Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>


ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm. and some of his prolific passing records: 15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton. 1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps 1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons 6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one. 7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc 3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time) most consecutive completions to start a sb all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning. the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career. edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol</P>


OMG!!!</P>


These are these specific stats that any QB can amass.* I mean I love Eli, but "most wins in months that have 8 or more letters" stuff.** Spare me.</P>


Eli is a fine QB.* He stepped up his game tremendously in 2011.* I'm very proud of him.* He followed the advice of his Head Coach when he said in Indy in Feb. of 2011 that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks.* That he needed to protect the ball better.* Which is EXACTLY what I had been saying here and getting killed for it.* TC and Morehead were in agreement.* Actually, include Eli in that since he obvioulsy took steps to correct it.</P>


So thats Eli, TC and Morehead on one side (The good guys)* and 420 on the other. (<U>pretty</U> good guy)</P>


I said <U>until last year</U> he was not a HOF player.* I doubt anyone without an Eli poster over their bed would have argued that point.* To say he was one of the top QB's in the NFL before last season is absolute homer drivel.** Its OK, because you are a homer driveler. (if driveler is a word.* If it is...you're it)</P>


I say all of this with love in my heart for a fellow Giants fan.* (albeit a tad misguided)</P>

lol. whatever u say. in ur mind u prob believe it to be true i said eli was a HOF before this season. in ur mind i'm a homer, and to label me or anyone that moniker usually comes when somone actually knew more about a particular situation than you. i hate to sound conceited but in this instance i feel it safe to say i've been dead on accurate in pretty much my entire overview of eli (for some one whose actually been notoriously controversial to say the least about eli bc of claims uve made, i find it hilarious u try to insinuate u have a better understanding of this subject than me).

And since some people, which its easy to do over the internet bc we're dealing with strangers and who wants to admit that a stranger knows more about something than you do, so the "your a homer." "you're a fanboy, you think elis perfect. you think no one is better than him at anything. you think its ny eli and not ny giants. etc etc etc u've used so many i couldnt possibly list them all. and its ok i get it, its a way to make yourself feel better for having some classically misguided thoughts on the particular subject of eli manning. but just bc another knows more than u about a particular subject, doesnt make them anything u claim. arent u always talking about tearing down rivers and ben to prop up eli and use it against people? well u practice that urself, hypocratically or ironically whicvever works best

btw, havent u already deemed this topic to be pointless and stupid? and that it shouldnt even be discussed? why are you still prolonging the convo then? just curious bc as i and others have noted, for some one who claims to be so fair and balanced and not fixated on eli manning, the same posters are almost ALWAYS the center of a eli manning topic lol

Drez
06-14-2012, 05:00 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him.

Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers.

they're just going to keep inflating
Flacco isn't on pace to out gain Eli. Ryan and Eli are almost dead even. If Stafford can stay healthy, then he probably will, and Rodgers almost certainly will.


what? not even close imho. staffords missed several seasons and rodgers didnt start for hist first 3 yrs. at the same points in their careers they are nowhere near eli.
flacco may be close but i doubt he even is ahead of eli in any category at the same point for both careers

and this is important to consider too bc in terms of total career numbers, eli is going to have better or more of numbers than those guys bc eli in effect has a 3 yr head start on rodgers and however many seasons for stafford...etc etc

Flacco is averaging about 10 or 15 yards fewer per game than Eli and almost a half a TD less. Ryan is averaging 1.3 yards more per game and .02 more TDs (or something ridiculously small like that).

Stafford may end up surpassing Eli if he stays healthy, just look at his statistical arc and you can see that it isn't a stretch to think that. Not saying he will, but it isn't unreasonable to think that he may.

Rodgers almost definitely will. His yardage total in the 3 or 4 years he's been starting excellent and he's in a system that is very passer friendly. I would be very surprised if Rodgers finished under Eli on the all time yards list. TDs, probably, too. Even though Rodgers sat for a few years, he's about 2 years younger than Eli which negates the head start that you talk about.

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 05:01 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly.* The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r.* My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</p>


Eli has been a franchise QB.* Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011.* There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB.** </p>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000.* It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with.* It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers.* I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</p>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg.** None will get a sniff of the HOF.</p>


The standard is "quality of play".* Its not baseball.* When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own.* Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience.* Football is different.* Football is the ultimate team game.* Stop with the "stats" nonsense.* Go by what you see on the field.</p>


*</p>
Yes, this argument is silly MS, because the sole purpose of the OP was to wonder where on the all time list Eli might end up the major passing categories. It wasn't a debate about whether or not he'd be a HoFer or the validity of said stats, just a bored offseason musing about our QB.

You, however, had to turn it into something more than that, and frankly there was no reason for this thread to have gone much beyond speculating what Eli's end of career stats would look like.

Would you object if we wondered how many sacks JPP might have in his career or how many TD receptions Cruz or Nicks would have?

The problem is that you and some posters like Gumby just have trouble letting anything positive to be said about Eli without turning it into something more than it truly needs to be (or less depending on how you want to look at it, lol).

And it appears you're fighting ghosts in this thread, too. Where was anyone tearing down other QBs in this thread (other than maybe me saying that Brees' son, if anything like him, wouldn't do well playing outdoors... Which is true, as Brees doesn't play nearly as well in the elements)?

So then, let's look at Eli's "quality of play." 8 years in the NFL, 5 trips to the postseason, 2 SB MVPs. 2 Pro Bowl nods (yes, again "meaningless"), outside of his rookie year only 2 seasons not making it to the playoffs, never had a losing record as a full season starter, longest active and third longest all time consecutive start streak for QBs, 6th highest single season yards, one of only 4 or 5 QBs to post 7 consecutive years of 3k+ yards and 20+ TDs (but this group will get longer). And that's just off the top of my head.

And again, seeing as you completely missed the point of this thread, we aren't trying to "justify" anything by using meaningless stats, we were just musing where Eli's meaningless stats might rank on the list of others meaningless stats.


perfectly said. your the equivalent to an online message board super hero.

Drez
06-14-2012, 05:01 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him. Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers. they're just going to keep inflating
Flacco isn't on pace to out gain Eli. Ryan and Eli are almost dead even. If Stafford can stay healthy, then he probably will, and Rodgers almost certainly will.
</p>


Joe Flacco's first 4 years (only 4 years) in the NFL</p>


44 wins 20 losses 60.8 comp. % 13816 yards 80 TD's 46 Int's.</p>


Eli Manning's 1st four years</p>


30 wins 25 losses 54.68 comp. % 11385 yards 77 TD's 64 Int's.</p>


In EVERY catagory Flacco is ahead of Eli's pace.</p>


Don't get me wrong, I think Eli is a better player than Flacco. But be careful with your statements that are factually incorrect.</p>
I used full career stats when I did the comparison the other night.

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 05:03 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him.

Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers.

they're just going to keep inflating
Flacco isn't on pace to out gain Eli. Ryan and Eli are almost dead even. If Stafford can stay healthy, then he probably will, and Rodgers almost certainly will.


what? not even close imho. staffords missed several seasons and rodgers didnt start for hist first 3 yrs. at the same points in their careers they are nowhere near eli.
flacco may be close but i doubt he even is ahead of eli in any category at the same point for both careers

and this is important to consider too bc in terms of total career numbers, eli is going to have better or more of numbers than those guys bc eli in effect has a 3 yr head start on rodgers and however many seasons for stafford...etc etc

Flacco is averaging about 10 or 15 yards fewer per game than Eli and almost a half a TD less. Ryan is averaging 1.3 yards more per game and .02 more TDs (or something ridiculously small like that).

Stafford may end up surpassing Eli if he stays healthy, just look at his statistical arc and you can see that it isn't a stretch to think that. Not saying he will, but it isn't unreasonable to think that he may.

Rodgers almost definitely will. His yardage total in the 3 or 4 years he's been starting excellent and he's in a system that is very passer friendly. I would be very surprised if Rodgers finished under Eli on the all time yards list. TDs, probably, too. Even though Rodgers sat for a few years, he's about 2 years younger than Eli which negates the head start that you talk about.


oh i see. thanks for the info.
well maybe the head start, and his durability, will add up. and if he maintains seasons that have a semblance of last season that should boost him above those guys.

i know i've seen eli compared to older qbs and qbs in the league as veterans when he entered and when u look at the stats from a position that applies to both from a certain point in their career, ie 4 yrs into the league for eli was 2007/8 and 4 yrs into the league for newton will be 2014

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 05:03 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</P>


</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold? His performance prior to this past season was very good. A legit starting QB. But hardly HOF quality. His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up. I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough. We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot. Its like the friggin thought police. Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season. He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB. He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well. Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best. Now I put him at #5. The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard. The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap. Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>


ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm. and some of his prolific passing records: 15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton. 1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps 1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons 6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one. 7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc 3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time) most consecutive completions to start a sb all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning. the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career. edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol</P>


OMG!!!</P>


These are these specific stats that any QB can amass. I mean I love Eli, but "most wins in months that have 8 or more letters" stuff. Spare me.</P>


Eli is a fine QB. He stepped up his game tremendously in 2011. I'm very proud of him. He followed the advice of his Head Coach when he said in Indy in Feb. of 2011 that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks. That he needed to protect the ball better. Which is EXACTLY what I had been saying here and getting killed for it. TC and Morehead were in agreement. Actually, include Eli in that since he obvioulsy took steps to correct it.</P>


So thats Eli, TC and Morehead on one side (The good guys) and 420 on the other. (<U>pretty</U> good guy)</P>


I said <U>until last year</U> he was not a HOF player. I doubt anyone without an Eli poster over their bed would have argued that point. To say he was one of the top QB's in the NFL before last season is absolute homer drivel. Its OK, because you are a homer driveler. (if driveler is a word. If it is...you're it)</P>


I say all of this with love in my heart for a fellow Giants fan. (albeit a tad misguided)</P>


lol. whatever u say. in ur mind u prob believe it to be true i said eli was a HOF before this season. in ur mind i'm a homer, and to label me or anyone that moniker usually comes when somone actually knew more about a particular situation than you. i hate to sound conceited but in this instance i feel it safe to say i've been dead on accurate in pretty much my entire overview of eli (for some one whose actually been notoriously controversial to say the least about eli bc of claims uve made, i find it hilarious u try to insinuate u have a better understanding of this subject than me). And since some people, which its easy to do over the internet bc we're dealing with strangers and who wants to admit that a stranger knows more about something than you do, so the "your a homer." "you're a fanboy, you think elis perfect. you think no one is better than him at anything. you think its ny eli and not ny giants. etc etc etc u've used so many i couldnt possibly list them all. and its ok i get it, its a way to make yourself feel better for having some classically misguided thoughts on the particular subject of eli manning. btw, havent u already deemed this topic to be pointless and stupid? and that it shouldnt even be discussed? why are you still prolonging the convo then? just curious bc as i and others have noted, for some one who claims to be so fair and balanced and not fixated on eli manning, the same posters are almost ALWAYS the center of a eli manning topic lol</P>


I am actually very much a homer. I'm a Giants homer. I have always seen Eli for what he is. Or at least what his play suggests he is. I also am happy to see Eli's pocket presence improve enormously in 2011. If he had played like he did in 2010, we would have been 5-11 at best.</P>


Last year he had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks. In the three previous years he had very few. The only one that qualifies in 2010 was the Jax game. He had lost that edge for those years. Had plenty of chances and failed. So he improved his efficiency with the ball AND regained the clutch play that he had seemingly lost. Thus raising the level of his game substantially.</P>


You only see what you want to see with Eli. I see who and what he is.</P>

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 05:04 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him. Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers. they're just going to keep inflating
Flacco isn't on pace to out gain Eli. Ryan and Eli are almost dead even. If Stafford can stay healthy, then he probably will, and Rodgers almost certainly will.
</P>


Joe Flacco's first 4 years (only 4 years) in the NFL</P>


44 wins 20 losses 60.8 comp. % 13816 yards 80 TD's 46 Int's.</P>


Eli Manning's 1st four years</P>


30 wins 25 losses 54.68 comp. % 11385 yards 77 TD's 64 Int's.</P>


In EVERY catagory Flacco is ahead of Eli's pace.</P>


Don't get me wrong, I think Eli is a better player than Flacco. But be careful with your statements that are factually incorrect.</P>



I used full career stats when I did the comparison the other night.
</P>


Flacco's only played for 4 years. How can you compare the two except the seasons they played.?</P>

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 05:14 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly.* The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r.* My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB.* Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011.* There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB.** </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000.* It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with.* It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers.* I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg.** None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play".* Its not baseball.* When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own.* Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience.* Football is different.* Football is the ultimate team game.* Stop with the "stats" nonsense.* Go by what you see on the field.</P>


*</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold?*** His performance prior to this past season was very good.* A legit starting QB.* But hardly HOF quality.* His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up.* I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough.* We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot.* Its like the friggin thought police.* Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season.* He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB.* He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well.* Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best.* Now I put him at #5.* The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard.* The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap.* Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>


ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm. and some of his prolific passing records: 15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton. 1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps 1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons 6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one. 7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc 3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time) most consecutive completions to start a sb all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning. the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career. edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol</P>


OMG!!!</P>


These are these specific stats that any QB can amass.* I mean I love Eli, but "most wins in months that have 8 or more letters" stuff.** Spare me.</P>


Eli is a fine QB.* He stepped up his game tremendously in 2011.* I'm very proud of him.* He followed the advice of his Head Coach when he said in Indy in Feb. of 2011 that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks.* That he needed to protect the ball better.* Which is EXACTLY what I had been saying here and getting killed for it.* TC and Morehead were in agreement.* Actually, include Eli in that since he obvioulsy took steps to correct it.</P>


So thats Eli, TC and Morehead on one side (The good guys)* and 420 on the other. (<U>pretty</U> good guy)</P>


I said <U>until last year</U> he was not a HOF player.* I doubt anyone without an Eli poster over their bed would have argued that point.* To say he was one of the top QB's in the NFL before last season is absolute homer drivel.** Its OK, because you are a homer driveler. (if driveler is a word.* If it is...you're it)</P>


I say all of this with love in my heart for a fellow Giants fan.* (albeit a tad misguided)</P>


lol. whatever u say. in ur mind u prob believe it to be true i said eli was a HOF before this season. in ur mind i'm a homer, and to label me or anyone that moniker usually comes when somone actually knew more about a particular situation than you. i hate to sound conceited but in this instance i feel it safe to say i've been dead on accurate in pretty much my entire overview of eli (for some one whose actually been notoriously controversial to say the least about eli bc of claims uve made, i find it hilarious u try to insinuate u have a better understanding of this subject than me). And since some people, which its easy to do over the internet bc we're dealing with strangers and who wants to admit that a stranger knows more about something than you do, so the "your a homer." "you're a fanboy, you think elis perfect. you think no one is better than him at anything. you think its ny eli and not ny giants. etc etc etc u've used so many i couldnt possibly list them all. and its ok i get it, its a way to make yourself feel better for having some classically misguided thoughts on the particular subject of eli manning. btw, havent u already deemed this topic to be pointless and stupid? and that it shouldnt even be discussed? why are you still prolonging the convo then? just curious bc as i and others have noted, for some one who claims to be so fair and balanced and not fixated on eli manning, the same posters are almost ALWAYS the center of a eli manning topic lol</P>


I am actually very much a homer.* I'm a Giants homer.* I have always seen Eli for what he is.* Or at least what his play suggests he is.* I also am happy to see Eli's pocket presence improve enormously in 2011.* If he had played like he did in 2010, we would have been 5-11 at best.</P>


Last year he had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks.* In the three previous years he had very few.* The only one that qualifies in 2010 was the Jax game.* He had lost that edge for those years.* Had plenty of chances and failed.* So he improved his efficiency with the ball AND regained the clutch play that he had seemingly lost.* Thus raising the level of his game substantially.</P>


You only see what you want to see with Eli.* I see who and what he is.</P>

lol. classic MS deflection.

Im not a giants homer tho. i havent awlays seen eli for what he is, (nevermind i actually have gone on record claiming he'd be where he is, and various other aspects of his progression. and also at a time where ur illogical outlooks where mainstream and the "eli will become one of the best qbs in the league and will make a strong case for the HoF" outlook was ragged on unmercilessly by the majority.)

Eli has an excellent record when it comes to comebacks. the thing is, it can only be done by a qb when the situation arises. granted he may not have had any, and may have even faltered in one or two of them...but if u look at his career, and the number of come from behind wins, to say he ever "lost it", the ability to lead a come from behind victory, well, just goes to show you an example of being misguied.

Of course you only see what eli is, how could i? ur smarter than EVERYONE, despite the actual evidence supporting the opposite...you probably believe it to be true in your head tho, so i cant blame you...only marvel at the growth a special mind can dispaly

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 05:41 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</P>


</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold? His performance prior to this past season was very good. A legit starting QB. But hardly HOF quality. His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up. I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough. We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot. Its like the friggin thought police. Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season. He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB. He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well. Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best. Now I put him at #5. The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard. The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap. Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>


ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm. and some of his prolific passing records: 15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton. 1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps 1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons 6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one. 7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc 3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time) most consecutive completions to start a sb all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning. the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career. edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol</P>


OMG!!!</P>


These are these specific stats that any QB can amass. I mean I love Eli, but "most wins in months that have 8 or more letters" stuff. Spare me.</P>


Eli is a fine QB. He stepped up his game tremendously in 2011. I'm very proud of him. He followed the advice of his Head Coach when he said in Indy in Feb. of 2011 that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks. That he needed to protect the ball better. Which is EXACTLY what I had been saying here and getting killed for it. TC and Morehead were in agreement. Actually, include Eli in that since he obvioulsy took steps to correct it.</P>


So thats Eli, TC and Morehead on one side (The good guys) and 420 on the other. (<U>pretty</U> good guy)</P>


I said <U>until last year</U> he was not a HOF player. I doubt anyone without an Eli poster over their bed would have argued that point. To say he was one of the top QB's in the NFL before last season is absolute homer drivel. Its OK, because you are a homer driveler. (if driveler is a word. If it is...you're it)</P>


I say all of this with love in my heart for a fellow Giants fan. (albeit a tad misguided)</P>


lol. whatever u say. in ur mind u prob believe it to be true i said eli was a HOF before this season. in ur mind i'm a homer, and to label me or anyone that moniker usually comes when somone actually knew more about a particular situation than you. i hate to sound conceited but in this instance i feel it safe to say i've been dead on accurate in pretty much my entire overview of eli (for some one whose actually been notoriously controversial to say the least about eli bc of claims uve made, i find it hilarious u try to insinuate u have a better understanding of this subject than me). And since some people, which its easy to do over the internet bc we're dealing with strangers and who wants to admit that a stranger knows more about something than you do, so the "your a homer." "you're a fanboy, you think elis perfect. you think no one is better than him at anything. you think its ny eli and not ny giants. etc etc etc u've used so many i couldnt possibly list them all. and its ok i get it, its a way to make yourself feel better for having some classically misguided thoughts on the particular subject of eli manning. btw, havent u already deemed this topic to be pointless and stupid? and that it shouldnt even be discussed? why are you still prolonging the convo then? just curious bc as i and others have noted, for some one who claims to be so fair and balanced and not fixated on eli manning, the same posters are almost ALWAYS the center of a eli manning topic lol</P>


I am actually very much a homer. I'm a Giants homer. I have always seen Eli for what he is. Or at least what his play suggests he is. I also am happy to see Eli's pocket presence improve enormously in 2011. If he had played like he did in 2010, we would have been 5-11 at best.</P>


Last year he had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks. In the three previous years he had very few. The only one that qualifies in 2010 was the Jax game. He had lost that edge for those years. Had plenty of chances and failed. So he improved his efficiency with the ball AND regained the clutch play that he had seemingly lost. Thus raising the level of his game substantially.</P>


You only see what you want to see with Eli. I see who and what he is.</P>


lol. classic MS deflection. Im not a giants homer tho. i havent awlays seen eli for what he is, (nevermind i actually have gone on record claiming he'd be where he is, and various other aspects of his progression. and also at a time where ur illogical outlooks where mainstream and the "eli will become one of the best qbs in the league and will make a strong case for the HoF" outlook was ragged on unmercilessly by the majority.) Eli has an excellent record when it comes to comebacks. the thing is, it can only be done by a qb when the situation arises. granted he may not have had any, and may have even faltered in one or two of them...but if u look at his career, and the number of come from behind wins, to say he ever "lost it", the ability to lead a come from behind victory, well, just goes to show you an example of being misguied. Of course you only see what eli is, how could i? ur smarter than EVERYONE, despite the actual evidence supporting the opposite...you probably believe it to be true in your head tho, so i cant blame you...only marvel at the growth a special mind can dispaly</P>


Gee thanks!</P>

Drez
06-14-2012, 05:57 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</p>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </p>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</p>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</p>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</p>


</p>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</p>


What prolific passing records does he hold? His performance prior to this past season was very good. A legit starting QB. But hardly HOF quality. His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</p>


And you crack me up. I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough. We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</p>


The oppression on this MB is a riot. Its like the friggin thought police. Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season. He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB. He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well. Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best. Now I put him at #5. The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard. The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</p>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap. Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</p>


ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm. and some of his prolific passing records: 15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton. 1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps 1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons 6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one. 7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc 3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time) most consecutive completions to start a sb all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning. the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career. edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol</p>


OMG!!!</p>


These are these specific stats that any QB can amass. I mean I love Eli, but "most wins in months that have 8 or more letters" stuff. Spare me.</p>


Eli is a fine QB. He stepped up his game tremendously in 2011. I'm very proud of him. He followed the advice of his Head Coach when he said in Indy in Feb. of 2011 that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks. That he needed to protect the ball better. Which is EXACTLY what I had been saying here and getting killed for it. TC and Morehead were in agreement. Actually, include Eli in that since he obvioulsy took steps to correct it.</p>


So thats Eli, TC and Morehead on one side (The good guys) and 420 on the other. (<u>pretty</u> good guy)</p>


I said <u>until last year</u> he was not a HOF player. I doubt anyone without an Eli poster over their bed would have argued that point. To say he was one of the top QB's in the NFL before last season is absolute homer drivel. Its OK, because you are a homer driveler. (if driveler is a word. If it is...you're it)</p>


I say all of this with love in my heart for a fellow Giants fan. (albeit a tad misguided)</p>


lol. whatever u say. in ur mind u prob believe it to be true i said eli was a HOF before this season. in ur mind i'm a homer, and to label me or anyone that moniker usually comes when somone actually knew more about a particular situation than you. i hate to sound conceited but in this instance i feel it safe to say i've been dead on accurate in pretty much my entire overview of eli (for some one whose actually been notoriously controversial to say the least about eli bc of claims uve made, i find it hilarious u try to insinuate u have a better understanding of this subject than me). And since some people, which its easy to do over the internet bc we're dealing with strangers and who wants to admit that a stranger knows more about something than you do, so the "your a homer." "you're a fanboy, you think elis perfect. you think no one is better than him at anything. you think its ny eli and not ny giants. etc etc etc u've used so many i couldnt possibly list them all. and its ok i get it, its a way to make yourself feel better for having some classically misguided thoughts on the particular subject of eli manning. btw, havent u already deemed this topic to be pointless and stupid? and that it shouldnt even be discussed? why are you still prolonging the convo then? just curious bc as i and others have noted, for some one who claims to be so fair and balanced and not fixated on eli manning, the same posters are almost ALWAYS the center of a eli manning topic lol</p>


I am actually very much a homer. I'm a Giants homer. I have always seen Eli for what he is. Or at least what his play suggests he is. I also am happy to see Eli's pocket presence improve enormously in 2011. If he had played like he did in 2010, we would have been 5-11 at best.</p>


Last year he had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks. In the three previous years he had very few. The only one that qualifies in 2010 was the Jax game. He had lost that edge for those years. Had plenty of chances and failed. So he improved his efficiency with the ball AND regained the clutch play that he had seemingly lost. Thus raising the level of his game substantially.</p>


You only see what you want to see with Eli. I see who and what he is.</p>
The reason why, "Eli lost his edge," was that there just weren't many opportunities the past couple of years where we were in position to have Eli lead a comeback. We were either up or getting our asses handed to us come the 4Q. I think there was only something like 4 feasible comeback situations and Eli was 2-2 in them. I can assume that is no worse than average in comeback situations across the league.

Drez
06-14-2012, 06:02 PM
All these young guys are going to out produce him. Ryan flacco Rodgers Stafford are all on pace for higher numbers. they're just going to keep inflating
Flacco isn't on pace to out gain Eli. Ryan and Eli are almost dead even. If Stafford can stay healthy, then he probably will, and Rodgers almost certainly will.
</p>


Joe Flacco's first 4 years (only 4 years) in the NFL</p>


44 wins 20 losses 60.8 comp. % 13816 yards 80 TD's 46 Int's.</p>


Eli Manning's 1st four years</p>


30 wins 25 losses 54.68 comp. % 11385 yards 77 TD's 64 Int's.</p>


In EVERY catagory Flacco is ahead of Eli's pace.</p>


Don't get me wrong, I think Eli is a better player than Flacco. But be careful with your statements that are factually incorrect.</p>



I used full career stats when I did the comparison the other night.
</p>


Flacco's only played for 4 years. How can you compare the two except the seasons they played.?</p>
Because I was feeling lazy, lol. But, that hasn't stopped others from doing the same against Eli without the outrage.

chasjay
06-14-2012, 06:25 PM
all I can say is "wow" - as an Eli homer -probably the biggest Eli homer on the board - I grew up an hour or so from, and at the same time as, his Dad, Archie - I'm a lifelong Ole Miss and Giants fan - and have been tracking this thread through all nine pages - adding a comment or two along the way. It just baffles me to see all the different lines of thought and arguments that have erupted over the simple proposition of what his final career stats might turn out to be.

He obviously has a chance to post some of the best career stats of all time - and he has obviously had some years in the past that follow what you might call the "learning curve" - I never doubted him in any of those learning curve years, but I can concede that they happened - but I also believe that his innate talent was the one thing <u>most</u> responsible for the last two Giant SB victories. Obviously there are some that feel giving Eli too much credit detracts from the Giants team as a whole. I understand their point, but don't necessarily agree. But as an Eli homer, I am proud to say that Eli would agree with those who would deflect credit from him and give it to the team as a whole.

Back in the 60's, I thought Glynn Griffing would be the ultimate face of the NY Giants - but several things, some of them cultural, took that away.

I've been waiting for Eli to lead the Giants since before he was born. I'm pretty pleased right now.

Okay - you guys can carry on now.

Drez
06-14-2012, 06:30 PM
all I can say is "wow" - as an Eli homer -probably the biggest Eli homer on the board - I grew up an hour or so from, and at the same time as, his Dad, Archie - I'm a lifelong Ole Miss and Giants fan - and have been tracking this thread through all nine pages - adding a comment or two along the way. It just baffles me to see all the different lines of thought and arguments that have erupted over the simple proposition of what his final career stats might turn out to be.

He obviously has a chance to post some of the best career stats of all time - and he has obviously had some years in the past that follow what you might call the "learning curve" - I never doubted him in any of those learning curve years, but I can concede that they happened - but I also believe that his innate talent was the one thing <u>most</u> responsible for the last two Giant SB victories. Obviously there are some that feel giving Eli too much credit detracts from the Giants team as a whole. I understand their point, but don't necessarily agree. But as an Eli homer, I am proud to say that Eli would agree with those who would deflect credit from him and give it to the team as a whole.

Back in the 60's, I thought Glynn Griffing would be the ultimate face of the NY Giants - but several things, some of them cultural, took that away.

I've been waiting for Eli to lead the Giants since before he was born. I'm pretty pleased right now.

Okay - you guys can carry on now.

That's the thing. The "realists" *cough cough* *chuckle chuckle* can't seem to even let a simple and non-charged proposition like, "What will Eli's end of career stats look like and where will it put him on the all time stats list?" without making it some huge deal.

EliTE
06-14-2012, 06:52 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly.* The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r.* My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB.* Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011.* There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB.** </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000.* It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with.* It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers.* I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg.** None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play".* Its not baseball.* When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own.* Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience.* Football is different.* Football is the ultimate team game.* Stop with the "stats" nonsense.* Go by what you see on the field.</P>


*</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold?*** His performance prior to this past season was very good.* A legit starting QB.* But hardly HOF quality.* His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up.* I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough.* We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot.* Its like the friggin thought police.* Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season.* He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB.* He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well.* Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best.* Now I put him at #5.* The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard.* The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap.* Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>


ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm. and some of his prolific passing records: 15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton. 1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps 1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons 6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one. 7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc 3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time) most consecutive completions to start a sb all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning. the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career. edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol</P>


OMG!!!</P>


These are these specific stats that any QB can amass.* I mean I love Eli, but "most wins in months that have 8 or more letters" stuff.** Spare me.</P>


Eli is a fine QB.* He stepped up his game tremendously in 2011.* I'm very proud of him.* He followed the advice of his Head Coach when he said in Indy in Feb. of 2011 that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks.* That he needed to protect the ball better.* Which is EXACTLY what I had been saying here and getting killed for it.* TC and Morehead were in agreement.* Actually, include Eli in that since he obvioulsy took steps to correct it.</P>


So thats Eli, TC and Morehead on one side (The good guys)* and 420 on the other. (<U>pretty</U> good guy)</P>


I said <U>until last year</U> he was not a HOF player.* I doubt anyone without an Eli poster over their bed would have argued that point.* To say he was one of the top QB's in the NFL before last season is absolute homer drivel.** Its OK, because you are a homer driveler. (if driveler is a word.* If it is...you're it)</P>


I say all of this with love in my heart for a fellow Giants fan.* (albeit a tad misguided)</P>


lol. whatever u say. in ur mind u prob believe it to be true i said eli was a HOF before this season. in ur mind i'm a homer, and to label me or anyone that moniker usually comes when somone actually knew more about a particular situation than you. i hate to sound conceited but in this instance i feel it safe to say i've been dead on accurate in pretty much my entire overview of eli (for some one whose actually been notoriously controversial to say the least about eli bc of claims uve made, i find it hilarious u try to insinuate u have a better understanding of this subject than me). And since some people, which its easy to do over the internet bc we're dealing with strangers and who wants to admit that a stranger knows more about something than you do, so the "your a homer." "you're a fanboy, you think elis perfect. you think no one is better than him at anything. you think its ny eli and not ny giants. etc etc etc u've used so many i couldnt possibly list them all. and its ok i get it, its a way to make yourself feel better for having some classically misguided thoughts on the particular subject of eli manning. btw, havent u already deemed this topic to be pointless and stupid? and that it shouldnt even be discussed? why are you still prolonging the convo then? just curious bc as i and others have noted, for some one who claims to be so fair and balanced and not fixated on eli manning, the same posters are almost ALWAYS the center of a eli manning topic lol</P>


I am actually very much a homer.* I'm a Giants homer.* I have always seen Eli for what he is.* Or at least what his play suggests he is.* I also am happy to see Eli's pocket presence improve enormously in 2011.* If he had played like he did in 2010, we would have been 5-11 at best.</P>


Last year he had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks.* In the three previous years he had very few.* The only one that qualifies in 2010 was the Jax game.* He had lost that edge for those years.* Had plenty of chances and failed.* So he improved his efficiency with the ball AND regained the clutch play that he had seemingly lost.* Thus raising the level of his game substantially.</P>


You only see what you want to see with Eli.* I see who and what he is.</P>please stop posting. you are detached from reality.

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 10:05 PM
.....and this argument is completely silly. The premise is that if Eli "accumulates" enough passing yards and TD passes, he will be a HOF'r. My point is that these stats are nearly irrelevant.</P>


Eli has been a franchise QB. Yes he has had a problem with inconsistency in his career but had a truly great season in 2011. There is no reason to believe that if he continues, or even builds upon his performance last season, he will be a HOF type QB. </P>


It won't matter if he puts up 40,000 yards, 50,000 or 60,000. It won't matter what "stats" he puts up that some of you are so obsessed with. It doesn't mean we need to tear down Ben, or Brees or Rivers. I doesn't mean we need to somehow "justify" our opinion with meaningless accumulated stats.</P>


Among the top QB's in accumulated passing stats are Vinny Testeverde, Kerry Collins and Steve Deberg. None will get a sniff of the HOF.</P>


The standard is "quality of play". Its not baseball. When you are at the plate or on the mound you are essentially on your own. Plus stats are a huge part of the baseball experience. Football is different. Football is the ultimate team game. Stop with the "stats" nonsense. Go by what you see on the field.</P>


</P>


lmfao. i needed a good laugh. eli has been one of the better qb in the leagues for years now. ur so full of double standards, u claim stats dont matter, ts about wins. well eli dominates that aspect. and he still has stats that ARE NOT EASILY DUPLICATED. he's gt several accomplishments of being 1 of 5 qbs or 1 of 7 qbs etc etc. he holds prolific nfl records... yes 2011 was his best season, it doesnt mean the seasons prior were not great, bc they were. lmfao u still hold onto that mentality pre the 07 run its quite hilarious... eli is a hall of fame qb no doubt guaranteed. only question now if its first ballot</P>


What prolific passing records does he hold? His performance prior to this past season was very good. A legit starting QB. But hardly HOF quality. His win/loss record isn't really that great either.</P>


And you crack me up. I say that Eli is on a path to the Hall but thats not good enough. We have to think that he already was before this past year in your eyes or we're some kind of "hater".</P>


The oppression on this MB is a riot. Its like the friggin thought police. Eli was around the 10th best QB in the league until this season. He had one pro bowl appearance and that was as the third QB. He has been in the middle of the pack in all your beloved "stats", fo those years as well. Aside from your "stats" his play on the field was inconsistent at best. Now I put him at #5. The fifth best QB of his era may or may not be a HOF standard. The 2 SB's will help in the eyes of the voters.</P>


And don't give me that friggin SB MVP crap. Thats nothing but a popularity contest.</P>


ur post states that theres no reason the believe eli makes the hall of fame. maybe u had a typo i dunno, that statement certainly isnt out of your realm. and some of his prolific passing records: 15 4th quarter TD, breaking like a 50 yr record held by Unitas which was tied by Peyton. 1 of 5 qbs to win 2 sb mvps 1 of 6 qbs to throw for 3 k and 20 plus td 7 straight seasons 6th most passing yards in one season and i believe 2nd all time for most yards in a season post season included but could be off on that one. 7 road or neutral site victories by a qb most all time hes the highest win % qb since 2005 in the nfc dunno how it ranks including the afc 3rd most consecutive starts in a row and still growing highest 4th qrt qb rating in the 4th quarter of the sb (could be off i know he's top 3 all time) most consecutive completions to start a sb all this while beating the undefeated NE pats for one of the SB and the rematch in sb 46. all this while being the brother of peyton manning. the hof voters love a good story and legends...elis a shoe in. if he can play at a good level he'll prob be first ballot and eli at yr 9 entering this season is further ahead statistically than pretty much every qb i've seen him compared to including guys like brees at the same point in their career. edit-and drez. if u read this, he's using the "people tear down brees rivers and ben to prop up eli" point in a thread where not one poster has unreasonably "tore down" or devalued those qbs at all lol</P>


OMG!!!</P>


These are these specific stats that any QB can amass. I mean I love Eli, but "most wins in months that have 8 or more letters" stuff. Spare me.</P>


Eli is a fine QB. He stepped up his game tremendously in 2011. I'm very proud of him. He followed the advice of his Head Coach when he said in Indy in Feb. of 2011 that Eli needed to throw the ball away more and take more sacks. That he needed to protect the ball better. Which is EXACTLY what I had been saying here and getting killed for it. TC and Morehead were in agreement. Actually, include Eli in that since he obvioulsy took steps to correct it.</P>


So thats Eli, TC and Morehead on one side (The good guys) and 420 on the other. (<U>pretty</U> good guy)</P>


I said <U>until last year</U> he was not a HOF player. I doubt anyone without an Eli poster over their bed would have argued that point. To say he was one of the top QB's in the NFL before last season is absolute homer drivel. Its OK, because you are a homer driveler. (if driveler is a word. If it is...you're it)</P>


I say all of this with love in my heart for a fellow Giants fan. (albeit a tad misguided)</P>


lol. whatever u say. in ur mind u prob believe it to be true i said eli was a HOF before this season. in ur mind i'm a homer, and to label me or anyone that moniker usually comes when somone actually knew more about a particular situation than you. i hate to sound conceited but in this instance i feel it safe to say i've been dead on accurate in pretty much my entire overview of eli (for some one whose actually been notoriously controversial to say the least about eli bc of claims uve made, i find it hilarious u try to insinuate u have a better understanding of this subject than me). And since some people, which its easy to do over the internet bc we're dealing with strangers and who wants to admit that a stranger knows more about something than you do, so the "your a homer." "you're a fanboy, you think elis perfect. you think no one is better than him at anything. you think its ny eli and not ny giants. etc etc etc u've used so many i couldnt possibly list them all. and its ok i get it, its a way to make yourself feel better for having some classically misguided thoughts on the particular subject of eli manning. btw, havent u already deemed this topic to be pointless and stupid? and that it shouldnt even be discussed? why are you still prolonging the convo then? just curious bc as i and others have noted, for some one who claims to be so fair and balanced and not fixated on eli manning, the same posters are almost ALWAYS the center of a eli manning topic lol</P>


I am actually very much a homer. I'm a Giants homer. I have always seen Eli for what he is. Or at least what his play suggests he is. I also am happy to see Eli's pocket presence improve enormously in 2011. If he had played like he did in 2010, we would have been 5-11 at best.</P>


Last year he had a lot of 4th quarter comebacks. In the three previous years he had very few. The only one that qualifies in 2010 was the Jax game. He had lost that edge for those years. Had plenty of chances and failed. So he improved his efficiency with the ball AND regained the clutch play that he had seemingly lost. Thus raising the level of his game substantially.</P>


You only see what you want to see with Eli. I see who and what he is.</P>


please stop posting. you are detached from reality.</P>


I Fight The Power!!</P>

gumby742
06-15-2012, 08:45 AM
all I can say is "wow" - as an Eli homer -probably the biggest Eli homer on the board - I grew up an hour or so from, and at the same time as, his Dad, Archie - I'm a lifelong Ole Miss and Giants fan - and have been tracking this thread through all nine pages - adding a comment or two along the way. It just baffles me to see all the different lines of thought and arguments that have erupted over the simple proposition of what his final career stats might turn out to be.

He obviously has a chance to post some of the best career stats of all time - and he has obviously had some years in the past that follow what you might call the "learning curve" - I never doubted him in any of those learning curve years, but I can concede that they happened - but I also believe that his innate talent was the one thing <U>most</U> responsible for the last two Giant SB victories. Obviously there are some that feel giving Eli too much credit detracts from the Giants team as a whole. I understand their point, but don't necessarily agree. But as an Eli homer, I am proud to say that Eli would agree with those who would deflect credit from him and give it to the team as a whole.

Back in the 60's, I thought Glynn Griffing would be the ultimate face of the NY Giants - but several things, some of them cultural, took that away.

I've been waiting for Eli to lead the Giants since before he was born. I'm pretty pleased right now.

Okay - you guys can carry on now.

That's the thing. The "realists" *cough cough* *chuckle chuckle* can't seem to even let a simple and non-charged proposition like, "What will Eli's end of career stats look like and where will it put him on the all time stats list?" without making it some huge deal.
</P>


I think I started it unintentionally by saying </P>


"To put things in perspective. Eli, Ben, and Rivers are on pace to beat and in some cases smash the stats of previous greats. But then, the next generation of Ryan, Flacco, Newton, etc are on pace to be better than Eli, Ben, and Rivers stats. ".</P>


Then 420 got pissed because I was "cheapening" Eli's stats. In the past, it's the pro-Eli folk that's always gotten defensive first. In this case, it's no different. </P>