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View Full Version : Giants will regret not drafting Courtney Upshaw



alau53
06-12-2012, 06:05 PM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE & Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett & JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down & get an xtra pick

jomo
06-12-2012, 06:10 PM
I don't have to defend my positon on our LB's. I am well entrenched in the position that we STILL need to improve there. RB however is a much higher priority along with OL. We'll deal with finding our next great pass rusher in next year's draft.

miked1958
06-12-2012, 06:21 PM
I really wanted the giants to draft Upshaw as I am an Alabama fan a d watched this kid all through his college career. However I am happy with the Wilson pick.

I was also high on us picking up Donta Hightower

Jobarulz
06-12-2012, 06:24 PM
Danny Ware was the #2 RB before the draft, enough said.

Manstache
06-12-2012, 06:24 PM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE & Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett & JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down & get an xtra pickdude, haven't u learned by now that NOT trusting jerry reese is completely assanine? smh...

Jobarulz
06-12-2012, 06:27 PM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE & Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett & JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down & get an xtra pickdude, haven't u learned by now that NOT trusting jerry reese is completely assanine? smh...

For sure, just like bashing Eli and Coughlin, but so many fans managed to do that too, smh.

Manstache
06-12-2012, 06:36 PM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE & Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett & JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down & get an xtra pickdude, haven't u learned by now that NOT trusting jerry reese is completely assanine? smh...

For sure, just like bashing Eli and Coughlin, but so many fans managed to do that too, smh.im completely stupified by that logic of thinking as well bruh.

Jobarulz
06-12-2012, 06:47 PM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE & Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett & JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down & get an xtra pickdude, haven't u learned by now that NOT trusting jerry reese is completely assanine? smh...

For sure, just like bashing Eli and Coughlin, but so many fans managed to do that too, smh.im completely stupified by that logic of thinking as well bruh.

True that. I liked Upshaw, but RB was a huge need. Besides, if Keith Rivers is healthy he has star ability at LB. I have a feeling that is gonna be a steal for Reese and the Giants.

jomo
06-12-2012, 06:51 PM
Danny Ware was the #2 RB before the draft, enough said.That's what I am talking about althoughDJW would have sunk to #3 behind JJ by the start of the season.

Drez
06-12-2012, 06:59 PM
Danny Ware was the #2 RB before the draft, enough said.That's what I am talking about althoughDJW would have sunk to #3 behind JJ by the start of the season.

JJ?

Drez
06-12-2012, 07:01 PM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE & Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett & JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down & get an xtra pick
Wouldn't Upshaw be more of an end here and not a LB?

NWKEffectElement
06-12-2012, 07:12 PM
Danny Ware was the #2 RB before the draft, enough said.That's what I am talking about although*DJW would have sunk to #3 behind JJ by the start of the season.

JJ?


Jernigan

NWKEffectElement
06-12-2012, 07:13 PM
In Reese we trust.

Drez
06-12-2012, 07:17 PM
Danny Ware was the #2 RB before the draft, enough said.That's what I am talking about althoughDJW would have sunk to #3 behind JJ by the start of the season.

JJ?


Jernigan
That's the only thing I can think of and Jerrnigan is a WR, not a RB... SO, I don't know how he'd become our 2 back, lol.

jomo
06-12-2012, 07:26 PM
Danny Ware was the #2 RB before the draft, enough said.That's what I am talking about althoughDJW would have sunk to #3 behind JJ by the start of the season.

JJ?
Jernigan
That's the only thing I can think of and Jerrnigan is a WR, not a RB... SO, I don't know how he'd become our 2 back, lol.
Sorry boys and girls, I meant Da'Rel Scott. I was in a rush to make my point that we are thin at RB and it was a higher priority than LB, nothing at all against Upshaw.

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 07:51 PM
I dont see Upshaw as a great pass rusher.I think he will be a better run defender than pass rusher.

He is very average athletically, certainly not a speed/burst guy. As for covering TEs. No, that is not something Upshaw will be able to do much of in the NFL.

Morehead State
06-12-2012, 07:55 PM
David Wilson will be an awesome Giant.</P>


Maybe even rookie of the year. The kid is dynamic to the nth degree.</P>

jomo
06-12-2012, 08:00 PM
David Wilson will be an awesome Giant.</P>


Maybe even rookie of the year. The kid is dynamic to the nth degree.</P>We haven't drafted a running back this explosive and talented in a long time. And he can catch too. Imagine that!

GameTime
06-12-2012, 08:01 PM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE &amp; Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett &amp; JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down &amp; get an xtra pick</P>


you're commenting on two players that havent done squat yet in the NFL. </P>


The regrets will remain to be seen.....or not. </P>

pino
06-12-2012, 08:09 PM
The more I think about our draft, the more I feel that it was the correct move. Losing Manningham and Brandon was a huge loss in the off-season for an offense that was struggling to run the ball, and now hoping to find a TE (again). If we want Cruz and Nicks to continue their success then we have to bring in a bigger talent pool in hopes that a 3rd or 4th option emerges. If our rookies can improve the offense, or push the others to improve themselves, then I feel it was all worth it.

I understand how much we miss a reliable LB core, but if the talent isn't there when we draft then it just isn't there.

Besides, JR can read minds and stuff....

Joe Morrison
06-12-2012, 08:23 PM
David Wilson will be an awesome Giant.</P>


Maybe even rookie of the year. The kid is dynamic to the nth degree.</P>


We haven't drafted a running back this explosive and talented in a long time. And he can catch too. Imagine that!</P>


It's all about the line play, the Giants suffered last year and have not really upgraded, hopefully the small moves with guys they have will work out.</P>

alau53
06-12-2012, 08:23 PM
giants usually draft best available player not position..there were a few rb's they could have drafted later..reece is doing a good job but that doesnt mean he hasnt made a few bad decisions..in the 80's george young was a good gm..but his later year drafts were terrible..we all trusted george young back then too

Captain Chaos
06-12-2012, 08:35 PM
I dont see Upshaw as a great pass rusher.I think he will be a better run defender than pass rusher.

He is very average athletically, certainly not a speed/burst guy. As for covering TEs. No, that is not something Upshaw will be able to do much of in the NFL.

Wasn't that the analysis on him anyway? We'll get another solid pass rusher next year!

Drez
06-12-2012, 08:41 PM
giants usually draft best available player not position..there were a few rb's they could have drafted later..reece is doing a good job but that doesnt mean he hasnt made a few bad decisions..in the 80's george young was a good gm..but his later year drafts were terrible..we all trusted george young back then too
The Giants under Reese almost never draft best player available, but rather use a combination of positional value and need.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 08:46 PM
David Wilson will be an awesome Giant.</P>


Maybe even rookie of the year.* The kid is dynamic to the nth degree.</P>

we're on dangerous grounds here man. hell may freeze over, this is twice i've found ur post to be insightful and correct.

and this may be one of the few times i've ever been more excited with a pick that came outside the 1rst round.

i could have seen the pick being upshaw or wilson pre the draft...i have a ton of optimism that wilson is not only gonna be legit, but special as well.
if he turns out the way JR's other first picks have...we are going to be set at the RB position for some time.

and i coulda leaned to picking a rb over upshaw predraft even tho i was opposed to taking one in the first anyways. at the time i believed UM Miller would be available later in the draft, and coulda filled in like wilson early on. only wilson gives us more dimensions and possibilities long term imho.
we need threats to take the attention off of our threats...if that makes any sense. getting wilson adds a player defenses have to account for. and when ur accounting for player x, u cant use him to account for player y so i think wilson makes more sense than upshaw long term. and i dont believe hes a 3 down lb anyways...

and anyways our lb corp is more crowded than our rb corp...wilson could make more of an impact sooner, and long term...

and besides this is all conjuncture and speculation anyways, both players havent played a down of football

slipknottin
06-12-2012, 10:31 PM
Wasn't that the analysis on him anyway? We'll get another solid pass rusher next year!


He could be a good power player, he is short and squatty, and has good strength. Can hold the point of attack, and can do a decent job shedding with his upper body strength and he does have some nice variety of moves and counter moves, but he is never going to blow past an OT with speed or burst.

That was overall, the reason he fell to the 2nd round.

Now thats not to say I dislike Upshaw, but overall he is not what the giants generally look for in DE prospects. They are primarily a size/speed team, and Upshaw really is neither.

Next years DE class should be very good, possibly great depending on which underclassmen declare.

TuckYou
06-13-2012, 09:03 AM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE &amp; Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett &amp; JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down &amp; get an xtra pickdude, haven't u learned by now that NOT trusting jerry reese is completely assanine? smh...</P>


Aaron Ross over Jon Beason, Clint Sintim over Lesean McCoy, drafting Travis Beckum and Ramses Barden.</P>


Reese isnt perfect, as no GM is. I was a huge Upshaw fan and my jaw dropped when he was there for us to STEAL. He is going to be a star IMO. Not saying Wilson wont be, but I was shocked Upshaw lasted that long. He was arguably the most valuable piece on the Bama defense. Ravens got a STEAL. Im just glad he didnt go to the Eagles or Cowboys. </P>


Only time will tell. </P>

GMENAGAIN
06-13-2012, 09:11 AM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE &amp; Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett &amp; JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down &amp; get an xtra pickdude, haven't u learned by now that NOT trusting jerry reese is completely assanine? smh...</P>


Aaron Ross over Jon Beason, Clint Sintim over Lesean McCoy, drafting Travis Beckum and Ramses Barden.</P>


Reese isnt perfect, as no GM is. I was a huge Upshaw fan and my jaw dropped when he was there for us to STEAL. He is going to be a star IMO. Not saying Wilson wont be, but I was shocked Upshaw lasted that long. He was arguably the most valuable piece on the Bama defense. Ravens got a STEAL. Im just glad he didnt go to the Eagles or Cowboys. </P>


Only time will tell. </P>


</P>


While Reese may have had his misses in the draft like EVERY other GM, his success rate is very good when compared to other GM's. Moreover, the Giants are at theirbest when selecting pass rushers . . . . so that fact that the Giantspassed on Upshaw makes me think thatthe F.O.didn't think that he was the type of pass rushing "steal" that a lot of people on this MB seem to think that he was . . . . . </P>

Morehead State
06-13-2012, 09:36 AM
giants usually draft best available player not position..there were a few rb's they could have drafted later..reece is doing a good job but that doesnt mean he hasnt made a few bad decisions..in the 80's george young was a good gm..but his later year drafts were terrible..we all trusted george young back then too
The Giants under Reese almost never draft best player available, but rather use a combination of positional value and need.
</P>


You have hit the nail on the head. One of the greatest myths is that JR is strictly a BPA kind of guy when it comes to the draft. We have often gone after a position of need. Not always, but often. This year was a good example. If you look to JR's drafts and the first round picks, you see more needs based picks than BPA.</P>


Aaron Ross, Kenny Phillips, Hakeem Nicks and now David Wilson. I would say that JPP and and Prince were more BPA than need.</P>


</P>

Redeyejedi
06-13-2012, 10:42 AM
I dont see Upshaw as a great pass rusher.I think he will be a better run defender than pass rusher.

He is very average athletically, certainly not a speed/burst guy. As for covering TEs. No, that is not something Upshaw will be able to do much of in the NFL.I agree Upshaw is a mediocre pass rusher. He isnt very explosive far from an edge rusher. I dont know where the covering TE's is coming from since Upshaw rarely left 10 yards from the line of scrimmage in college. Honestly Hightower was a better fit for the Giants

JesseJames
06-13-2012, 10:49 AM
I have just one question abut the team drafting Upshaw, if he plays DE for us who sits, Osi, JPP, or Tuck, sometimes a team can have too many passrushers..

THE_New_York_Giants
06-13-2012, 10:49 AM
you can never have enough pass rushers as ernie accorsi said..upshaw not only could rush the QB but can cover the TE & Rb out of backfield.. a 3 down LB..why did jerry pass on him ..wilson i'm not sure is what the giants need..he will continue to fumble as all young ball handlers do until they get used to speed of NFL (see dave megett & JJ from troy last yr)..he will also turn a no gainer into a 15 yard loss..if gmen had 5 guys they were looking at why didnt they trade down & get an xtra pick

okay

greenca190
06-13-2012, 10:59 AM
I have just one question abut the team drafting Upshaw, if he plays DE for us who sits, Osi, JPP, or Tuck, sometimes a team can have too many passrushers..

Upshaw sits, and learns. Gets 10 snaps a game like Tollefson did. Then, Osi leaves in free agency, and he plays the third DE role.

Justin Tuck was the third defensive end on this team for three years.

critters
06-13-2012, 11:42 AM
I agree that I wish we drafted Upshaw but we put ourselves in a desperate situation with a RB by not addressing it the year before. I wanted Hightower in a bad bad way, but when he was gone and Upshaw was still there I thought it was a bonus. I've watched Alabama play numerous times where Upshaw looked like he was just on a different level than anyone else on the field. And when you consider the talent that was on that defense, that's saying something.

I follow a lot of recruiting and I remember Upshaw when he was coming out of high school. Dude has always been one of the best players on the field. Oddly enough, when Hightower was still in high school I was hoping he would end up a Giant. He hadn't even played a down of college ball and I knew he'd be a first round pick. I wish we had more Alabama players. They are the best coached players in college (especially on defense) and I don't think we even sent someone to their pro day.

critters
06-13-2012, 11:51 AM
I dont see Upshaw as a great pass rusher.I think he will be a better run defender than pass rusher.

He is very average athletically, certainly not a speed/burst guy. As for covering TEs. No, that is not something Upshaw will be able to do much of in the NFL.

I disagree. Watch Alabama's bowl game against MSU or the BCSCG and see if you still think he has average athleticism. Alabama CONSISTENTLY gets the top recruiting classes and Upshaw was always one of the top players. When he was healthy, he was unstoppable.

He was 11th in the country in sacks and 16th in tackles for a loss... and that's playing in the SEC where he's facing the best players in the country regularly. The problem isn't Upshaw though.. it's how desperate we let ourselves become for an elite RB. Even if Upshaw was the perfect fit for us as a pass rusher, I still think we take a RB.

slipknottin
06-13-2012, 04:42 PM
I disagree. Watch Alabama's bowl game against MSU or the BCSCG and see if you still think he has average athleticism. Alabama CONSISTENTLY gets the top recruiting classes and Upshaw was always one of the top players. >

I watched every game Upshaw played in college.

He is not a burst/speed player, and he does not have the length giants look for on the DL.

He is a compact, think, power player. He is far more similar to a Lamarr Woodley physically, but Woodley is more flexibile and a better natural bender.

critters
06-13-2012, 05:26 PM
I disagree. Watch Alabama's bowl game against MSU or the BCSCG and see if you still think he has average athleticism. Alabama CONSISTENTLY gets the top recruiting classes and Upshaw was always one of the top players. &gt;

I watched every game Upshaw played in college.

He is not a burst/speed player, and he does not have the length giants look for on the DL.

He is a compact, think, power player. He is far more similar to a Lamarr Woodley physically, but Woodley is more flexibile and a better natural bender.

I agree he doesn't fit our mold... But I would say someone that says he only has average athleticism either hasn't watched him play much or doesn't know much about football. You say you've you've seen every game. Not sure how a DE/LB player can go in the first 35 picks, be an All-American, 1st team SEC and finalist for the Butkus award and just be a slow guy with average athleticism. He dominated in the SEC. It's not like he was in the WAC or Conference USA.

Maybe we don't have a particular mold we go after anyway. Everyone on here was telling me that Hightower didn't fit our system (maybe you were one of them) but I know that we were indeed VERY high on him.

slipknottin
06-13-2012, 05:31 PM
[Not sure how a DE/LB player can go in the first 35 picks, be an All-American, 1st team SEC and finalist for the Butkus award and just be a slow guy with average athleticism.

You listed a bunch of things that have absolutely nothing to do with athleticism.

Players can dominate in college because they are stronger than the players they go up against, it happens all the time. Those players do not always (most often do not) translate that to the NFL. Being the strongest guy in college does not make you the strongest in the NFL.

Nothing you listed does anything to show how Upshaw is this athletic freak.

And as for Hightower, Im sure you have inside sources telling you all about who the giants wanted to draft.

critters
06-14-2012, 09:47 AM
[Not sure how a DE/LB player can go in the first 35 picks, be an All-American, 1st team SEC and finalist for the Butkus award and just be a slow guy with average athleticism.

You listed a bunch of things that have absolutely nothing to do with athleticism.

Players can dominate in college because they are stronger than the players they go up against, it happens all the time. Those players do not always (most often do not) translate that to the NFL. Being the strongest guy in college does not make you the strongest in the NFL.

Nothing you listed does anything to show how Upshaw is this athletic freak.

And as for Hightower, Im sure you have inside sources telling you all about who the giants wanted to draft.

There's a reason I mentioned he was in the SEC... you don't get far in the SEC by just being strong. Everyone's strong. And I also don't think you go in the first 35 picks by just being strong cause there are plenty of strong players in the NFL draft. Not to mention, he didn't make plays by simply over powering people. His speed to the outside was what made him such an impact player, especially in those bowl games. And I never said anything about being an athletic freak. I just think he showed better than "average" athleticism his entire career. Either way, I agree he doesn't fit our mold, but I thought he could bring something to the table and would have been successful. I was a big fan of David Wilson throughout college and was more than happy to take him when we did pass on Upshaw. I remember watching that VT backfield of him, Evans and Williams and thinking I'd take any one of them.

Inside sourceS? No. But I get a few tidbits here and there (not that I needed one after the Giants chose to interview DH. They wouldn't waste their time on a player that "doesn't fit their system").

Marvelousmik
06-14-2012, 10:26 AM
Danny Ware was the #2 RB before the draft, enough said.

lmao

TrueBlue@NYC
06-14-2012, 01:54 PM
giants usually draft best available player not position..there were a few rb's they could have drafted later..reece is doing a good job but that doesnt mean he hasnt made a few bad decisions..in the 80's george young was a good gm..but his later year drafts were terrible..we all trusted george young back then too
The Giants under Reese almost never draft best player available, but rather use a combination of positional value and need.
</P>


You have hit the nail on the head.* One of the greatest myths is that JR is strictly a BPA kind of guy when it comes to the draft.* We have often gone after a position of need.* Not always, but often.* This year was a good example.* If you look to JR's drafts and the first round picks, you see more needs based picks than BPA.</P>


Aaron Ross, Kenny Phillips, Hakeem Nicks and now David Wilson.* I would say that JPP and and Prince were more BPA than need.</P>


*</P>

I think JR picks the highest rates player that fills A NEED, even if it's not necessarily our biggest need (like most fans do their mock drafts).

Manning2Niks
06-14-2012, 03:15 PM
<Yawn....>

There's a lot of players every team "regrets" not drafting. And even IF we regret not drafting him, its not the end of the world.

I'm sure a lot of teams wish they drafted Cruz or Tom Brady or Nicks or JPP etc.

That didn't stop the niners from making.the NFC Champ game cuz they had Crabtree or the Ravens without Brady whom every team pretty much had 6 shots at. How about the niners not taking Rodgers too.


I mean, come on. This is a pointless exercise even if he becomes the best at his position ever.

slipknottin
06-14-2012, 05:06 PM
And I also don't think you go in the first 35 picks by just being strong cause there are plenty of strong players in the NFL draft
Im not saying he is a bad athlete, he is a good athlete, but he is not an explosive pass rusher.


Not to mention, he didn't make plays by simply over powering people. His speed to the outside was what made him such an impact player, especially in those bowl games.
You need to watch more film of him, then watch film comparing him to some other DEs, like JPP or Ware, or Osi, or the real explosive players in college to understand what I am saying. You are saying "compared to a horrible athlete he has great speed". Yea sure, but that is meaningless. Heck, compare his pre-draft workout numbers, particularly 3 cone and vert. Even JPP, who admittedly had a very poor combine performance, has substantially better numbers. Compare him to a DeMarcus Ware and they are absolutely massively far apart.


Inside sourceS? No. But I get a few tidbits here and there (not that I needed one after the Giants chose to interview DH. They wouldn't waste their time on a player that "doesn't fit their system").


You do realize bringing players in does exactly that, right? Help them figure out whether a player fits or not. If they already knew he fit their system, why bring him in at all?

Manstache
06-14-2012, 05:56 PM
we won 2 titles with ross starting at cb, and 1 with beckum making minor contributions and barden and sintim not even seeing the field. all the while beason and mckoy haven't even played in a superbowl, let alone won 1. just goes to show u the depth at which the guy stockpiles. sintim behind kiwi and beckum/barden behind ballard and cruz. the bottom line is straps and the man assembled a roster that has won multiples.

giantsfan39
06-14-2012, 08:36 PM
Our pass rushers are DEs not LBs. Plus Kiwi will probably play DE next year imo.

critters
06-15-2012, 10:58 AM
And I also don't think you go in the first 35 picks by just being strong cause there are plenty of strong players in the NFL draft
Im not saying he is a bad athlete, he is a good athlete, but he is not an explosive pass rusher.


Not to mention, he didn't make plays by simply over powering people. His speed to the outside was what made him such an impact player, especially in those bowl games.
You need to watch more film of him, then watch film comparing him to some other DEs, like JPP or Ware, or Osi, or the real explosive players in college to understand what I am saying. You are saying "compared to a horrible athlete he has great speed". Yea sure, but that is meaningless. Heck, compare his pre-draft workout numbers, particularly 3 cone and vert. Even JPP, who admittedly had a very poor combine performance, has substantially better numbers. Compare him to a DeMarcus Ware and they are absolutely massively far apart.


Inside sourceS? No. But I get a few tidbits here and there (not that I needed one after the Giants chose to interview DH. They wouldn't waste their time on a player that "doesn't fit their system").


You do realize bringing players in does exactly that, right? Help them figure out whether a player fits or not. If they already knew he fit their system, why bring him in at all?

Trust me, I don't need to watch any film on him. I actually did watch every game he played in college. Also, I never argued that he was a speed/burst pass rusher... I was saying his athleticism isn't limited to just overpowering people. I have never compared him to JPP or Osi, actually said numerous times he doesn't fit that mold.

haha.. You can usually tell if a player fits a 3-4 or 4-3 by film, not by talking to them in an office. Interviewing isn't to find out what a player can do on the football field. They spent 3-4 years showing you that. When people were on here saying DH didn't fit our system, I don't think it was because of his attitude, intelligence or personality. Do you seriously think teams don't want to talk to guys they are looking at as first and second round picks to see what kind of a person they are before they spend millions on them?! Do you think Courtney Upshaw could have convinced Reese that he was a speed/burst pass rusher by talking to him in his office?

slipknottin
06-15-2012, 04:01 PM
First of all, you kept saying that Upshaw was a great athlete and he beat all sorts of players in college because of his speed.

Now you are saying he doesnt have great speed?

Confused much?

As for bringing players in, they usually work them out when they bring them in. But either way, its to do more homework.

As for whether a player fits in a 4-3 or a 3-4, and how you can tell that from film, that is a far harder thing to judge than you believe. There are plenty of 4-3 college ends that cant play 4-3 end in the NFL, and plenty of college 3-4 OLBs that ultimately end up at DE in the NFL. (like upshaw, who played 3-4 OLB in college, and is going to play DE for the Ravens).

But interviews/private workouts are just more pieces of the puzzle. If the player had shown them everything on tape, they wouldnt ever bring a player in for a workout. And they interview a crapload of players at the combine, some players you need to talk to further to get the full picture.

How do you know that when they brought Hightower in, they actually really DIDNT like how he was up on the board diagramming and remembering plays? That is information none of us have access to, so to say definatively one way or the other is nonsense.

critters
06-15-2012, 05:53 PM
First of all, you kept saying that Upshaw was a great athlete and he beat all sorts of players in college because of his speed.

Now you are saying he doesnt have great speed?

Confused much?

As for bringing players in, they usually work them out when they bring them in. But either way, its to do more homework.

As for whether a player fits in a 4-3 or a 3-4, and how you can tell that from film, that is a far harder thing to judge than you believe. There are plenty of 4-3 college ends that cant play 4-3 end in the NFL, and plenty of college 3-4 OLBs that ultimately end up at DE in the NFL. (like upshaw, who played 3-4 OLB in college, and is going to play DE for the Ravens).

But interviews/private workouts are just more pieces of the puzzle. If the player had shown them everything on tape, they wouldnt ever bring a player in for a workout. And they interview a crapload of players at the combine, some players you need to talk to further to get the full picture.

How do you know that when they brought Hightower in, they actually really DIDNT like how he was up on the board diagramming and remembering plays? That is information none of us have access to, so to say definatively one way or the other is nonsense.

I don't doubt you are confused... you don't seem to be great at reading. Where did I say he doesn't have good speed or that he "beats all sorts of players" because of his speed?

You think Upshaw has average athleticism that made a name for himself by simply overpowering players. I disagree and think he showed great athleticism in other ways. I think he showed good speed and athleticism by pursuing plays to the outside. He didn't have to beat any players or "overpower" them to do so.. he had to catch up with them. He didn't play with his hand down and burst pass OTs off the snap, so I'm not saying he's a speed/burst PASS RUSHER. He was quick enough and powerful enough to consistently make plays behind the LOS though and get to the qb. We disagree... simple as that. No need to continue arguing about it.

slipknottin
06-15-2012, 06:29 PM
My first two posts, which you clearly disagreed with, were that Upshaw was not a speed/burst guy.

Now you are agreeing with me.

Yes, he was fast enough in college to get to the QB. But the NFL is not college.