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View Full Version : Is Big Ben Better Than Eli?



rebelfan1966
06-12-2012, 11:03 PM
According to the folks who voted for the top 100... Big Ben is the better QB. Sorry, I just don't see it. Heck, I rank out of the top 100 for his character flaws alone.... not to mention his SB performances have not been stellar by any stretch.... on the other hand, Eli is clutch when it matters, and you don't have to worry about him getting caught up in alleged rape cases by multiple women. </P>

miked1958
06-12-2012, 11:09 PM
According to the folks who voted for the top 100... Big Ben is the better QB. Sorry, I just don't see it. Heck, I rank out of the top 100 for his character flaws alone.... not to mention his SB performances have not been stellar by any stretch.... on the other hand, Eli is clutch when it matters, and you don't have to worry about him getting caught up in alleged rape cases by multiple women. </P>I am fine with it. Extra motavation for him to go out and win another SB and prove em all wrong again

Martyr
06-12-2012, 11:12 PM
They are both great players one just is more popular.</P>

Drez
06-12-2012, 11:34 PM
No.

giantsfan420
06-12-2012, 11:44 PM
its tough to definitively say one player is better than the other. does ben do certain things better than eli? yes. does eli do certain things better than ben? yes.

i dont think u could go wrong with either qb. but imo, eli is going to be the more productive, successful QB when both careers are over. One, Eli will probably play longer, much longer. he doesnt have durability issues, ben does. two, ben is better at extending the plays using his mobility to buy more time. thats cool and all, but i prefer what eli is better than ben at, reading a defense and being able to put the ball in a tight window with timing and better downfield passer ability.

but thats just me. it used to be before 07 if u believed eli would be the better qb and was the better qb ud get laughed out of town. now, imo, the consensus among people has shifted towards eli...ben had more immediate success, eli will be the better qb and have more success long term imo.

zimonami
06-12-2012, 11:56 PM
It's not a question that ever even crosses my mind. Good luck to Ben, but Eli is our QB and the only one I really care about.
Eli is only now gaining cred with the other players. I think too many judged him by his goofy innocent looks, and his unchanging position as little brother.
I like being underestimated. Little brother grew up while everyone else was sleeping.

Cool Papa B.
06-13-2012, 12:00 AM
I don't think so. Statistically they are pretty close. Both can throw the ball well and are pretty tough hombres.

It's hard for me to believe that 8 years ago I was pissed that the Giants didn't take Rothlisberger with their pick. That would have been a total disaster.

PrideofNY
06-13-2012, 12:03 AM
Players seem to love guys who run a lot. I guess in their minds it makes them better athletes/more talented.

BeatYale
06-13-2012, 12:05 AM
Big Ben has the record for worst QB rating in a Super Bowl.

Eli has 2 Super Bowl MVP's, tied a record for most 4th quarter TD's from behind in a Super Bowl, I think he has the record for most consecutive completions in a Super Bowl, and he owns the record for most yards in a single post season.

Big Ben's regular season accolades are probably more impressive, however, that offense he plays in usually finishes dead last in passing attempts and wouldn't face as many 3rd and long situations as the other teams in the league.

Even when the Giants had a top rushing attack, we weren't the kind of team that could consistently grind out 3-4 yards per play, we'd struggle to run the ball at times and then pad our rushing average with big plays occasionally. The running attack wasn't as big of a crutch for our passing offense as people assume.

Both guys are great QB's, but Eli's definitely played better in the clutch on the big stage.

Just my 2 cents.

giantsfan420
06-13-2012, 12:08 AM
Big Ben has the record for worst QB rating in a Super Bowl.

Eli has 2 Super Bowl MVP's, tied a record for most 4th quarter TD's from behind in a Super Bowl, I think he has the record for most consecutive completions in a Super Bowl, and he owns the record for most yards in a single post season.

Big Ben's regular season accolades are probably more impressive, however, that offense he plays in usually finishes dead last in passing attempts and wouldn't face as many 3rd and long situations as the other teams in the league.

Even when the Giants had a top rushing attack, we weren't the kind of team that could consistently grind out 3-4 yards per play, we'd struggle to run the ball at times and then pad our rushing average with big plays occasionally. The running attack wasn't as big of a crutch for our passing offense as people assume.

Both guys are great QB's, but Eli's definitely played better in the clutch on the big stage.

Just my 2 cents.

he had the most consecutive completions to start a sb in nfl history.

agree with ur post, well said.

Neverend
06-13-2012, 01:10 AM
Yea u gotta admit, ben was a beast early in his career. He didn't really knew what he was doing that much, but damn some of those plays he was extending and some of those throws downfield were amazing. Nobody should be ashamed to admit what "could have been", but Eli surpassed Ben in my eyes after the 2010 season (even with Eli's turnovers). Before then, I'd say it was neck-and-neck between the two.

Giving credit to Ben, he's probably the best "makng something out of nothing" passing-wise in the nfl. But he's nowhere in the same class as Eli in terms of being a student of the game

Toadofsteel
06-13-2012, 01:12 AM
Yea u gotta admit, ben was a beast early in his career. He didn't really knew what he was doing that much, but damn some of those plays he was extending and some of those throws downfield were amazing. Nobody should be ashamed to admit what "could have been", but Eli surpassed Ben in my eyes after the 2010 season (even with Eli's turnovers). Before then, I'd say it was neck-and-neck between the two.

Giving credit to Ben, he's probably the best "makng something out of nothing" passing-wise in the nfl. But he's nowhere in the same class as Eli in terms of being a student of the game

I think Eli is just as good at making something out of nothing... he just does it before the snap :P

THE_New_York_Giants
06-13-2012, 01:13 AM
Why does this upset you guys? Big Ben and Eli are pretty even IMO. They both don't put up huge stats but they find ways to win games. Both should be hall of famers. Both of them are tough SOB's. Big Ben has never had a good O-line and he takes massive beatings week in and week out. IMO, Big Ben and Eli are on par with each other. Ben is a proven winner, just like Eli. You can't go wrong with him. It's like comparing Aikman to Bradshaw. Neither had spectacular numbers, they just found ways to win games.

myles2424
06-13-2012, 01:37 AM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season...........

Flip Empty
06-13-2012, 02:10 AM
I'd take Eli over him any day of the week, but he's still a very good QB in his own right. He's great when his pocket collapses (which is often).

Scoobie-Doo
06-13-2012, 05:38 AM
At taking advantage of women:
yes
As a quarterback:
no

SweetZombieJesus
06-13-2012, 06:11 AM
Players seem to love guys who run a lot. I guess in their minds it makes them better athletes/more talented.

People like to see car chases in movies with cars drifting through corners, tires smoking and screeching. But when you learn how to race you learn that's not the fastest way around a track.

Firenugget
06-13-2012, 08:25 AM
I don't understand why this keeps coming up. Both are very good QB's that any team in need of a top level QB would take in a heart beat. I don't care who is better to be honest, only that we have one of them.

TuckYou
06-13-2012, 08:29 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHsh4v3P91unZ8qvYKrQjt8DnTtQZcp oV23H84lzNceuuedC36aA</P>


Is Eli elite? </P>

BigBlue1971
06-13-2012, 08:37 AM
Eli and Big Ben are great qbs but with Elis ability to excel and come from behind in the 4th qtr leads me to go with him!</P>


imo Eli is the greatest modern day 4th qtr qb! for that reason hes better!</P>

Redeyejedi
06-13-2012, 08:51 AM
Why bother erasing this thread it always comes up. Might as well add Rivers in there as wel

bigjeep
06-13-2012, 09:13 AM
Big Ben has the record for worst QB rating in a Super Bowl.

Eli has 2 Super Bowl MVP's, tied a record for most 4th quarter TD's from behind in a Super Bowl, I think he has the record for most consecutive completions in a Super Bowl, and he owns the record for most yards in a single post season.

Big Ben's regular season accolades are probably more impressive, however, that offense he plays in usually finishes dead last in passing attempts and wouldn't face as many 3rd and long situations as the other teams in the league.

Even when the Giants had a top rushing attack, we weren't the kind of team that could consistently grind out 3-4 yards per play, we'd struggle to run the ball at times and then pad our rushing average with big plays occasionally. The running attack wasn't as big of a crutch for our passing offense as people assume.

Both guys are great QB's, but Eli's definitely played better in the clutch on the big stage.

Just my 2 cents.

+1

sg92
06-13-2012, 09:36 AM
Big Ben is top 10 material, if the list is sexual predators....

I doubt there is a single Giant fan that would take Ben over Eli; I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli >> Big Ben.

Morehead State
06-13-2012, 10:12 AM
Pretty even.</P>


Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</P>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</P>

THE_New_York_Giants
06-13-2012, 10:51 AM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season...........

I see a lot of familiar faces in this thread. They'll be back to wanting Eli off the team as soon as he doesn't win the Superbowl.... with that said... if he wins the Super Bowl 8 years in a row... dude

Morehead State
06-13-2012, 10:59 AM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season........... I see a lot of familiar faces in this thread. They'll be back to wanting Eli off the team as soon as he doesn't win the Superbowl.... with that said... if he wins the Super Bowl 8 years in a row... dude</P>


I honestly don't remember a single poster who ever took the position of "suck for Luck".</P>


</P>

bigblue58
06-13-2012, 11:15 AM
According to the folks who voted for the top 100... Big Ben is the better QB. Sorry, I just don't see it. Heck, I rank out of the top 100 for his character flaws alone.... not to mention his SB performances have not been stellar by any stretch.... on the other hand, Eli is clutch when it matters, and you don't have to worry about him getting caught up in alleged rape cases by multiple women. </P>


It's all subjective, it's someone's opinion and it's meaningless when all is said and done which is why these "lists" are so stupid and pointless!
What effect on the Giants do the results of some meaningless list have in the long run? NONE!
And the notion that his position on some list would give Eli "incentive" to be better is laughable!
Some of you folks need to stop watching "First Take" because Skip Clueless and Steven A (i'm the real story) Smith are starting to influence some of y'all's arguments and opinions....and thats not a compliment!

giantsfan420
06-13-2012, 11:17 AM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season........... I see a lot of familiar faces in this thread. They'll be back to wanting Eli off the team as soon as he doesn't win the Superbowl.... with that said... if he wins the Super Bowl 8 years in a row... dude</P>


I honestly don't remember a single poster who ever took the position of "suck for Luck".</P>


*</P>

there were several. burner was one of em iirc but thats ok, no ones perfect

the suck for luck was strongest arouond the STL week

burier
06-13-2012, 11:34 AM
This is hiliarious. Is Big Ben better than Eli????

Ben wouldn't even claim to better than Eli at this point.

We're talking about the most clutch player in the sport Vs...

I mean what the hell is Ben's claim to fame anyway?

Ben stunck up the 1 Superbowl and then showed that Eli was too tough an act to follow in another Superbowl.

As the fanboys would say "Eli stomps"

scf424
06-13-2012, 11:42 AM
I think in the past 2-3 years, I'd say Ben was better.

Right now, they're about even.

In the future, Eli will be better.

Roswell777
06-13-2012, 12:02 PM
You almost have to evaluate these two on a yearly basis. With that in mind, Eli had a better year last year. For big parts of last season he carried the Giants.

I've never seen any QB play better in the 4th qtr than Eli Manning did last year.

myles2424
06-13-2012, 12:30 PM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season........... I see a lot of familiar faces in this thread. They'll be back to wanting Eli off the team as soon as he doesn't win the Superbowl.... with that said... if he wins the Super Bowl 8 years in a row... dude</P>


I honestly don't remember a single poster who ever took the position of "suck for Luck".</P>


*</P> there were a few sir

jimsgints
06-13-2012, 12:44 PM
This will be a non issue in a few years. Eli's stats and his reputation will will be much more impressive. Everyone will just know. Ben is all but done.

nhpgiantsfan
06-13-2012, 12:44 PM
Bottom line, the Steelers and their fans would never trade Ben for Eli, and the Giants and their fans would never trade Eli for Ben. Both teams are extremely happy with their choice and both think they got the better guy.

JPP
06-13-2012, 12:54 PM
They are both great players one just is more popular.</P>

Ben was more successful out of the gate where Eli struggled mightily so Eli is having to correct everyones view and Ben just gets to add to his already positive view in the eyes of his peers. But we are getting to the point where Eli is obviously on a lot of players top 20s so he is really not doing to bad.

sg92
06-13-2012, 01:00 PM
I think some Steelers fans would trade Ben in for Eli -- possibly for football reasons (Eli was clearly the better QB last year), or possibly because Ben has shown himself to be a fairly despicable human being.

He turned a lot of people off with his behavior a few years ago, and may be lucky not to be in jail.

gumby742
06-13-2012, 01:13 PM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season........... I see a lot of familiar faces in this thread. They'll be back to wanting Eli off the team as soon as he doesn't win the Superbowl.... with that said... if he wins the Super Bowl 8 years in a row... dude</P>


I honestly don't remember a single poster who ever took the position of "suck for Luck".</P>


</P>


there were several. burner was one of em iirc but thats ok, no ones perfect the suck for luck was strongest arouond the STL week</P>


Well, I never said we should suck for Luck, but I did say something like this:</P>


IF Eli has a mediocre season with lots of INTs and turnovers, and IF we have a terrible season, I wouldn't be mad if we drafted Andrew Luck with the #1 overall pick.</P>


My reasoning was something like this: The best way to quanitify Eli's contributions to the team is via wins. In general, he just doesn't have the stats. Once Eli stops winning, then his most telling indicator showing he's pulling his weight on the team is gone. It would be difficult to justify his 100M salary on stats alone.</P>

giantsfan420
06-13-2012, 04:17 PM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season........... I see a lot of familiar faces in this thread. They'll be back to wanting Eli off the team as soon as he doesn't win the Superbowl.... with that said... if he wins the Super Bowl 8 years in a row... dude</P>


I honestly don't remember a single poster who ever took the position of "suck for Luck".</P>


*</P>


there were several. burner was one of em iirc but thats ok, no ones perfect the suck for luck was strongest arouond the STL week</P>


Well, I never said we should suck for Luck, but I did say something like this:</P>


IF Eli has a mediocre season with lots of INTs and turnovers, *and IF we have a terrible season,* I wouldn't be mad if we drafted Andrew Luck with the #1 overall pick.*</P>


My reasoning was something like this:* The best way to quanitify Eli's contributions to the team is via wins.* In general, he just doesn't have the stats.* Once Eli stops winning, then his most telling indicator showing he's pulling his weight on the team is gone.* It would be difficult to justify his 100M salary on stats alone.</P>

no ur confusing ur own stance now. he has the stats, they are just worthless/meaningless bc they changed one rule 30 yrs ago...

and if wins is how u quantify elis success why do u act like hes a 2 win qb? we've yet a losing season under his watch....so why would drafting luck make any sense if this theoretical situation arose where we had the 1rst pick out of 8 yrs w winning records...

ur stances dont make sense to me...

n420p69
06-13-2012, 04:25 PM
This sounds like a cop out answer but both QB's are better in their respective offenses then the other one would be. So basically Big Ben is better for Pittsburgh and Eli is better for us.

Flip Empty
06-13-2012, 04:49 PM
This sounds like a cop out answer but both QB's are better in their respective offenses then the other one would be. So basically Big Ben is better for Pittsburgh and Eli is better for us.

Nah I agree with that. Both teams have done a great job building around their QBs strengths. Can't say the same for Mr Rivers' Chargers...

If the Chargers had been able to keep Eli, I doubt he'd have had as much success as has had in NY.

burier
06-13-2012, 04:52 PM
Eli is the best Quarterback in the NFL.

/thread

slipknottin
06-13-2012, 04:53 PM
Ben is certainly much better at raping college girls in bar restrooms.

Flip Empty
06-13-2012, 04:57 PM
I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli >> Big Ben.
They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got.

Flip Empty
06-13-2012, 04:58 PM
Ben is certainly much better at raping college girls in bar restrooms.
Eli's probably better at riding motorcycles than Ben.

slipknottin
06-13-2012, 05:02 PM
Eli's probably better at riding motorcycles than Ben.

Well played sir.

Drez
06-13-2012, 05:06 PM
I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli &gt;&gt; Big Ben.
They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got.
When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?

Neverend
06-13-2012, 06:05 PM
I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli >> Big Ben.
They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got.
When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?




being fair here, nearly every superbowl winner had a top 5 defense with the exceptions of teams like the 06 colts, 09 saints, and 11 gmen

jomo
06-13-2012, 06:10 PM
I'd say that fans of Big Ben and Eli are MUCH happier than fans of Phillip Rivers. How's that? [:D]

slipknottin
06-13-2012, 06:13 PM
nearly every superbowl winner had a top 5 defense with the exceptions of teams like the 06 colts, 09 saints, and 11 gmen

and the 07 gmen. 7th in yards but 16th in points.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-13-2012, 06:17 PM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season........... I see a lot of familiar faces in this thread. They'll be back to wanting Eli off the team as soon as he doesn't win the Superbowl.... with that said... if he wins the Super Bowl 8 years in a row... dude</P>


I honestly don't remember a single poster who ever took the position of "suck for Luck".</P>


*</P>


there were several. burner was one of em iirc but thats ok, no ones perfect the suck for luck was strongest arouond the STL week</P>


Well, I never said we should suck for Luck, but I did say something like this:</P>


IF Eli has a mediocre season with lots of INTs and turnovers, *and IF we have a terrible season,* I wouldn't be mad if we drafted Andrew Luck with the #1 overall pick.*</P>


My reasoning was something like this:* The best way to quanitify Eli's contributions to the team is via wins.* In general, he just doesn't have the stats.* Once Eli stops winning, then his most telling indicator showing he's pulling his weight on the team is gone.* It would be difficult to justify his 100M salary on stats alone.</P>

no ur confusing ur own stance now. he has the stats, they are just worthless/meaningless bc they changed one rule 30 yrs ago...

and if wins is how u quantify elis success why do u act like hes a 2 win qb? we've yet a losing season under his watch....so why would drafting luck make any sense if this theoretical situation arose where we had the 1rst pick out of 8 yrs w winning records...

ur stances dont make sense to me...

Basically, until Superbowl XLVI, he didn't bELIeve.
I think if Eli wins 4 Superbowls, he will still be questioned as to whether or not he is elite.
Next excuse will be "Come on guys, he beat the same team twice. That's no accomplishment and Brady was getting older."

You can't go wrong with either Big Ben or Eli IMO.

Mohann
06-13-2012, 06:46 PM
Pretty even.</p>


Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</p>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</p>

In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better.

GameTime
06-13-2012, 06:49 PM
two very different QB skill sets. Cant compare them directly at all really. You can compare success tho which takes into account many things other then just the QB of course. </P>


Bottom line.....two SBs each in their tenure so far. The rest is all subjective for each individual. </P>

Flip Empty
06-13-2012, 07:27 PM
I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli >> Big Ben.
They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got.
When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?



Yeah that's true. Don't get me wrong, I've flung the "Big Ben rides the defense" line at many a Steelers fan. That doesn't dismiss the fact that he's a good QB though. Good, but I reckon Eli is better.

I'd take Rivers over Ben. They were drafted in the right positions.

BlueBlitzer
06-13-2012, 07:56 PM
Eli is elite, Ben is not.

Sarcasman
06-13-2012, 08:57 PM
According to the folks who voted for the top 100... Big Ben is the better QB. Sorry, I just don't see it. Heck, I rank out of the top 100 for his character flaws alone.... not to mention his SB performances have not been stellar by any stretch.... on the other hand, Eli is clutch when it matters, and you don't have to worry about him getting caught up in alleged rape cases by multiple women. </P>


The Top 100 is a meaningless pass time decided by a majority of clueless morons.

gumby742
06-13-2012, 09:50 PM
I'd like to take this time to remind everyone of the alarming number of "fans" that took part in the large number of "suck for luck" "wish we had big Ben/rivers instead" threads when times were ruff this Past season........... I see a lot of familiar faces in this thread. They'll be back to wanting Eli off the team as soon as he doesn't win the Superbowl.... with that said... if he wins the Super Bowl 8 years in a row... dude</P>


I honestly don't remember a single poster who ever took the position of "suck for Luck".</P>


*</P>


there were several. burner was one of em iirc but thats ok, no ones perfect the suck for luck was strongest arouond the STL week</P>


Well, I never said we should suck for Luck, but I did say something like this:</P>


IF Eli has a mediocre season with lots of INTs and turnovers, *and IF we have a terrible season,* I wouldn't be mad if we drafted Andrew Luck with the #1 overall pick.*</P>


My reasoning was something like this:* The best way to quanitify Eli's contributions to the team is via wins.* In general, he just doesn't have the stats.* Once Eli stops winning, then his most telling indicator showing he's pulling his weight on the team is gone.* It would be difficult to justify his 100M salary on stats alone.</P>

no ur confusing ur own stance now. he has the stats, they are just worthless/meaningless bc they changed one rule 30 yrs ago...

and if wins is how u quantify elis success why do u act like hes a 2 win qb? we've yet a losing season under his watch....so why would drafting luck make any sense if this theoretical situation arose where we had the 1rst pick out of 8 yrs w winning records...

ur stances dont make sense to me...

1) Compared to his peers - Rivers, Ben, etc. He does NOT have the stats. Let's not discuss the topic of another post here.

2) I don't treat him like he's a 2 win QB. I've said over and over that prior to last season, he was a top 10 QB. But when I corrected poor use of stats (usually people trying to defend Eli) in the past and when I called out people having a double standard, that just clouded me giving Eli any sort of props. Even when I said Eli was inconsistent, inaccurate, and inefficient compared to his peers, I still maintained he was at least a top 10 QB.

3) True. He has done nothing but win. But the difference is this. He's a 100Million dollar QB. 100M QBs win playoff games. Anything short of the post season is a failure. Let's say we went 1-15 last year and Eli regressed and had an average year. And before that we did in fact miss the playoffs 2 years in a row. IF the organisation decides to rebuild, why would you keep an older QB and pay him a ton - if he isn't putting up numbers like a 100M QB. Make sense? Maybe if you're getting paid like Alex Smith, getting wins during the regular season is enough. But if you're getting paid 100M, you either be going to the post season, or putting up monster numbers. That's why I say, if we sucked in 2011, and we drafted Andrew Luck, i wouldn't be mad.

EliTE
06-13-2012, 10:20 PM
gumby stay losing.

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 08:42 AM
Pretty even.</P>


Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</P>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</P>




In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better.
</P>


The Pitt. O line was horrible. That kid made so many plays it was rediculous. I thought he was fantastic in that game.</P>

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 08:43 AM
I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli &gt;&gt; Big Ben. They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got.
When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?


being fair here, nearly every superbowl winner had a top 5 defense with the exceptions of teams like the 06 colts, 09 saints, and 11 gmen</P>


Come playoff time though, the '06 Colts and the '11 Giants had defenses that were playing at a top 5 level.</P>

Drez
06-14-2012, 09:13 AM
Pretty even.</P>


Both have 2 SB's.* I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43.* He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</P>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</P>




In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better.
</P>


The Pitt. O line was horrible.* That kid made so many plays it was rediculous.* I thought he was fantastic in that game.</P> And our OL was so fantastic the past could years? The difference is that Eli can read a defense and make the necessary pre and post snap adjustments to overcome the OL deficiencies. Ben's strategy is to go, "Me big. Can break tackle and wait for running guy to open."

If Ben was so great in 43 then why did Holmes get voted as MVP and not Ben?

Also, the fact that you think Ben played well in 45 shows your bias. If Eli played the same, you'd really be panning him and ranting that his interceptions, particularly the pick 6, cost us the game.

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Pretty even.</P>


Both have 2 SB's.* I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43.* He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</P>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</P>




In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better.
</P>


The Pitt. O line was horrible.* That kid made so many plays it was rediculous.* I thought he was fantastic in that game.</P> And our OL was so fantastic the past could years? The difference is that Eli can read a defense and make the necessary pre and post snap adjustments to overcome the OL deficiencies. Ben's strategy is to go, "Me big. Can break tackle and wait for running guy to open."

If Ben was so great in 43 then why did Holmes get voted as MVP and not Ben?

Also, the fact that you think Ben played well in 45 shows your bias. If Eli played the same, you'd really be panning him and ranting that his interceptions, particularly the pick 6, cost us the game.

yeah. pretty comical that bens is his greatest sb performance...

id take both eli's sb performances over both of bens, easily.

and i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area.
they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL...

and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick.
both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads...
i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL

Marvelousmik
06-14-2012, 10:08 AM
According to the folks who voted for the top 100... Big Ben is the better QB. Sorry, I just don't see it. Heck, I rank out of the top 100 for his character flaws alone.... not to mention his SB performances have not been stellar by any stretch.... on the other hand, Eli is clutch when it matters, and you don't have to worry about him getting caught up in alleged rape cases by multiple women. </P>

1. You rank him out of the top 100 because of character. what about his QB play?

I still think eli is better though. But there is no doubt about it ben is a top 100 player

THE_New_York_Giants
06-14-2012, 10:14 AM
Pretty even.</P>


Both have 2 SB's.* I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43.* He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</P>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</P>




In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better.
</P>


The Pitt. O line was horrible.* That kid made so many plays it was rediculous.* I thought he was fantastic in that game.</P> And our OL was so fantastic the past could years? The difference is that Eli can read a defense and make the necessary pre and post snap adjustments to overcome the OL deficiencies. Ben's strategy is to go, "Me big. Can break tackle and wait for running guy to open."

If Ben was so great in 43 then why did Holmes get voted as MVP and not Ben?

Also, the fact that you think Ben played well in 45 shows your bias. If Eli played the same, you'd really be panning him and ranting that his interceptions, particularly the pick 6, cost us the game.

Both guys win games playing with their respective "strategies". That's all that matters. I don't care what the QB does as long as he finds a way to keep his team in the game and win it when it matters. Eli, Brady, and Big Ben are the 3 best in the league at that.

Drez
06-14-2012, 10:30 AM
Both guys win games playing with their respective "strategies".The point being, you can't just say that Ben's OL is bad without mentioning that he, in part, is responsible for some its bad play by not being able to make the proper pre and post snap adjustments. Whereas a QB is able to set up the protections presnap and adjust/get the ball out to the hot read more efficiently, in essence making his OL look better than it is.

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 10:36 AM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area.
they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL...

and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick.
both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads...
i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL

gumby742
06-14-2012, 11:25 AM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>

gumby742
06-14-2012, 11:32 AM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


</P>


But to be fair, from someone who watches the Steelers every week, Ben extending plays definitely has something to do with it. Him taking huge sacks drives me nuts.</P>

THE_New_York_Giants
06-14-2012, 11:48 AM
Both guys win games playing with their respective "strategies".The point being, you can't just say that Ben's OL is bad without mentioning that he, in part, is responsible for some its bad play by not being able to make the proper pre and post snap adjustments. Whereas a QB is able to set up the protections presnap and adjust/get the ball out to the hot read more efficiently, in essence making his OL look better than it is.
He still wins games. Cant go wrong with Big Ben as your QB. His positives far outweigh the negatives. Just like Eli. Sure Eli throws a lot of Int's, but he comes through when it matters. Just like Ben.

TrueBlue@NYC
06-14-2012, 11:54 AM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


</P>


But to be fair, from someone who watches the Steelers every week, Ben extending plays definitely has something to do with it.* Him taking huge sacks drives me nuts.</P>

Big Ben is admits himself that a number of sacks he takes his not the fault of his OL, but him holding the ball too long b/c he's looking for the big play downfield. Sometimes it works simetimes it doesnt.

Same as with Eli in deciding where his WR and the open spot in the defense is going to be before hand. Sometimes it works and it looks great somtimes he and the WR arent on the same page and we get one of those "what the heck?!" throws.

In the end they're pretty much even right now. Bens' career numbers are better, especially in efficiency, but that doesnt mean he's better right at this moment. Right now, they're about even.

To me, they're tied for the 4th best QB leaguewide.

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 12:35 PM
Pretty even.</P>


Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</P>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</P>




In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better.
</P>


The Pitt. O line was horrible. That kid made so many plays it was rediculous. I thought he was fantastic in that game.</P>


And our OL was so fantastic the past could years? The difference is that Eli can read a defense and make the necessary pre and post snap adjustments to overcome the OL deficiencies. Ben's strategy is to go, "Me big. Can break tackle and wait for running guy to open." If Ben was so great in 43 then why did Holmes get voted as MVP and not Ben? Also, the fact that you think Ben played well in 45 shows your bias. If Eli played the same, you'd really be panning him and ranting that his interceptions, particularly the pick 6, cost us the game.</P>


I don't think he played especially well in 45. Why do you think I would?</P>

jakegibbs
06-14-2012, 01:18 PM
Who was better after Ali / Frazier II?

So far they've faced each other head to head twice.

2004 33-30 Ben.
2008 21-14 Eli

We have to wait for the 3rd match the ":thrilla in Manila" so to speak to really know now don't we?

gumby742
06-14-2012, 01:25 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


</P>


But to be fair, from someone who watches the Steelers every week, Ben extending plays definitely has something to do with it. Him taking huge sacks drives me nuts.</P>


Big Ben is admits himself that a number of sacks he takes his not the fault of his OL, but him holding the ball too long b/c he's looking for the big play downfield. Sometimes it works simetimes it doesnt. Same as with Eli in deciding where his WR and the open spot in the defense is going to be before hand. Sometimes it works and it looks great somtimes he and the WR arent on the same page and we get one of those "what the heck?!" throws. In the end they're pretty much even right now. Bens' career numbers are better, especially in efficiency, but that doesnt mean he's better right at this moment. Right now, they're about even. To me, they're tied for the 4th best QB leaguewide.</P>


This i definitely agree with. Deciding who's better is splitting hairs.</P>


Eli's peaking right now. He can be even better as IMO he has more talent as a pure passer than Ben. Ben, as far as I'm concerned, has hit his ceiling (which is high in his own right).</P>

gumby742
06-14-2012, 01:27 PM
I can't wait until Rivers wins a ring. Then the conversation will be extra interesting.

TrueBlue@NYC
06-14-2012, 01:38 PM
I can't wait until Rivers wins a ring.* Then the conversation will be extra interesting.

Don't hold your breath on that. Honestly don't think Rivers is ever going to win a SB with SD.

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 02:02 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>

yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either.

im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL

TrueBlue@NYC
06-14-2012, 02:07 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>

yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either.

im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL

Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury.

I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.

gumby742
06-14-2012, 02:12 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 02:17 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>

im not comparing anybody in that post just stating whats going on with ben and that OL. and the no slack was more of a every team deals with injuries it isnt a excuse that one team can use and another cant

in terms of durability there is no competition between the two

THE_New_York_Giants
06-14-2012, 02:23 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>

im not comparing anybody in that post just stating whats going on with ben and that OL. and the no slack was more of a every team deals with injuries it isnt a excuse that one team can use and another cant

in terms of durability there is no competition between the two

Dude.. I just realized your handle name. I see you partake in the grass.

gumby742
06-14-2012, 02:29 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


im not comparing anybody in that post just stating whats going on with ben and that OL. and the no slack was more of a every team deals with injuries it isnt a excuse that one team can use and another cant in terms of durability there is no competition between the two</P>


The # of excuses I've heard for Eli have been huge. And almost all of them are not Eli exclusive excuses ie. to name one of many excuses, dropped passes. Least you can do is give Ben at least one benefit of the doubt. </P>

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 02:49 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>

im not comparing anybody in that post just stating whats going on with ben and that OL. and the no slack was more of a every team deals with injuries it isnt a excuse that one team can use and another cant

in terms of durability there is no competition between the two

Dude.. I just realized your handle name. I see you partake in the grass.

shhhh dont tell anybody

zimonami
06-14-2012, 03:15 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>

im not comparing anybody in that post just stating whats going on with ben and that OL. and the no slack was more of a every team deals with injuries it isnt a excuse that one team can use and another cant

in terms of durability there is no competition between the two

Dude.. I just realized your handle name. I see you partake in the grass.

shhhh dont tell anybody
Don't forget to share...

zimonami
06-14-2012, 03:20 PM
Who was better after Ali / Frazier II?

So far they've faced each other head to head twice.

2004 33-30 Ben.
2008 21-14 Eli

We have to wait for the 3rd match the ":thrilla in Manila" so to speak to really know now don't we?
Well, the analogy is nice, and I saw all 3, may times, and they were all great... unlike too many Part 2 and part 3 matches and movies.. but Ali Frazer was man on man... Eli or Ben could outplay his counterpart, and still lose because of someone else's missed tackle... They're not even on the field at the same time, so to judge who is better by that next game isn't quite fair, as you know.

jakegibbs
06-14-2012, 03:45 PM
Who was better after Ali / Frazier II?

So far they've faced each other head to head twice.

2004 33-30 Ben.
2008 21-14 Eli

We have to wait for the 3rd match the ":thrilla in Manila" so to speak to really know now don't we?
Well, the analogy is nice, and I saw all 3, may times, and they were all great... unlike too many Part 2 and part 3 matches and movies.. but Ali Frazer was man on man... Eli or Ben could outplay his counterpart, and still lose because of someone else's missed tackle... They're not even on the field at the same time, so to judge who is better by that next game isn't quite fair, as you know.

Kinda like Tom vs Eli IV right. Eli 3 wins Tom 1 win but Tom's a much better QB right?

Diamondring
06-14-2012, 04:38 PM
I'm goin to say that both of them are good to me. I also think that Eli had more weapons than Ben to work with. That halped Eli get another ring along with him playing better.

Yet I have seen Eli work with less and I say he wasn't bad at all. He should have ran a little more and dump the ball to the rbs but the rbs couldn't catch a cold though. Both of them are good players..

THE_New_York_Giants
06-14-2012, 04:45 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>

im not comparing anybody in that post just stating whats going on with ben and that OL. and the no slack was more of a every team deals with injuries it isnt a excuse that one team can use and another cant

in terms of durability there is no competition between the two

Dude.. I just realized your handle name. I see you partake in the grass.

shhhh dont tell anybody
Don't forget to share...

Haven't blazed up in about a month.

yoeddy
06-14-2012, 05:13 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>

In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?

giantsfan420
06-14-2012, 05:20 PM
lol i always pass that ****

THE_New_York_Giants
06-14-2012, 05:36 PM
lol i always pass that ****

2 puffs and a pass. I hate people who hog it.

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 05:39 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!! The excuses. Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham. He simply sucked in 2010. He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010. Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011. His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year. The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket. The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011. He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>

Drez
06-14-2012, 06:08 PM
Both guys win games playing with their respective "strategies".The point being, you can't just say that Ben's OL is bad without mentioning that he, in part, is responsible for some its bad play by not being able to make the proper pre and post snap adjustments. Whereas a QB is able to set up the protections presnap and adjust/get the ball out to the hot read more efficiently, in essence making his OL look better than it is.
He still wins games. Cant go wrong with Big Ben as your QB. His positives far outweigh the negatives. Just like Eli. Sure Eli throws a lot of Int's, but he comes through when it matters. Just like Ben.

Eli and Ben throw picks at a pretty close rate per attempt. Eli is at 1 per 30.4 pass attempts, Ben at 1 per 33.1. And up until 2010 Ben actually had a worse per attempt ratio than Eli. I'd imagine that those numbers will even out or return close to previous levels over the next few seasons.

But, my whole point was you can't talk about Ben's OL being bad without acknowledging Ben's contributions to his OL performing poorly or in reference to our OL without similarly acknowledging how Eli makes ours look better.

Drez
06-14-2012, 06:11 PM
Pretty even.</p>


Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</p>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</p>




In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better.
</p>


The Pitt. O line was horrible. That kid made so many plays it was rediculous. I thought he was fantastic in that game.</p>


And our OL was so fantastic the past could years? The difference is that Eli can read a defense and make the necessary pre and post snap adjustments to overcome the OL deficiencies. Ben's strategy is to go, "Me big. Can break tackle and wait for running guy to open." If Ben was so great in 43 then why did Holmes get voted as MVP and not Ben? Also, the fact that you think Ben played well in 45 shows your bias. If Eli played the same, you'd really be panning him and ranting that his interceptions, particularly the pick 6, cost us the game.</p>


I don't think he played especially well in 45. Why do you think I would?</p>
Because you have previously stated so.

Drez
06-14-2012, 06:16 PM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</p>

How about these?




Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we
started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition
to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that
year AND bradshaw missing time from injury.

I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in
2010.

zimonami
06-14-2012, 06:21 PM
[




Haven't blazed up in about a month.
You've been in the wrong places at the wrong times... with no friends to share. It's not what you know... it's WHO

zimonami
06-14-2012, 06:24 PM
lol i always pass that ****

2 puffs and a pass. I hate people who hog it.
Did you see the revelations about Barry Obama, and his CHOOMING in his earlier years? He was one who hogged/Bogarted. As he called it, "Intercepting"... any way you slice it, he was taking 2 to everyone else's one.
No surprises there.

rebelfan1966
06-14-2012, 06:28 PM
According to the folks who voted for the top 100... Big Ben is the better QB. Sorry, I just don't see it. Heck, I rank out of the top 100 for his character flaws alone.... not to mention his SB performances have not been stellar by any stretch.... on the other hand, Eli is clutch when it matters, and you don't have to worry about him getting caught up in alleged rape cases by multiple women. </P>


1. You rank him out of the top 100 because of character. what about his QB play? I still think eli is better though. But there is no doubt about it ben is a top 100 player</P>


I had this debate a couple of years ago on here with Harooni and a couple others..... basically, I am of the mindset he should be in prison right now. However, with that said, he is a good QB... but he is a nightmare for the PR people in the Steelers org.</P>

Morehead State
06-14-2012, 10:07 PM
Pretty even.</P>


Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season.</P>


They will be eternally linked at the hip (along with Rivers) and they will all probably be considered pretty even when their careers are over.</P>




In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better.
</P>


The Pitt. O line was horrible. That kid made so many plays it was rediculous. I thought he was fantastic in that game.</P>


And our OL was so fantastic the past could years? The difference is that Eli can read a defense and make the necessary pre and post snap adjustments to overcome the OL deficiencies. Ben's strategy is to go, "Me big. Can break tackle and wait for running guy to open." If Ben was so great in 43 then why did Holmes get voted as MVP and not Ben? Also, the fact that you think Ben played well in 45 shows your bias. If Eli played the same, you'd really be panning him and ranting that his interceptions, particularly the pick 6, cost us the game.</P>


I don't think he played especially well in 45. Why do you think I would?</P>



Because you have previously stated so.
</P>


No I haven't.</P>

byron
06-14-2012, 10:22 PM
Big Bens ah bum ! just saying Long live the king</P>


</P>


http://media.masslive.com/patriots_impact/photo/10526758-large.jpg</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


</P>

THE_New_York_Giants
06-14-2012, 11:17 PM
lol i always pass that ****

2 puffs and a pass. I hate people who hog it.
Did you see the revelations about Barry Obama, and his CHOOMING in his earlier years? He was one who hogged/Bogarted. As he called it, "Intercepting"... any way you slice it, he was taking 2 to everyone else's one.
No surprises there.

He's great at spending other people's money. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was great at smoking other people's bud. If he tried to do that to me I'd say "get the **** outa here."

buffyblue
06-15-2012, 12:35 AM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!!* The excuses.** Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham.* He simply sucked in 2010.* He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010.* Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011.* His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year.* The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket.* The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011.* He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>

Yeah Eli Manning really sucked in 2010. Sure he threw a lot of picks but he threw for over 4,000 yards and threw 31 TDs. Really sucked. Okay. Whatever you say.

Captain Chaos
06-15-2012, 05:42 AM
Physically Big Ben may have an edge but mentally I think that is where the difference is between the two. Eli is smart and savvy, Ben is a bull in a china closet who forces the plays. Think Eli will continue to improve, while big Ben will atrophe with his physical abilities...

gumby742
06-15-2012, 08:30 AM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB? Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within afew year span than anyone -ever. Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN. </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces. Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries. Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 08:36 AM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!!* The excuses.** Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham.* He simply sucked in 2010.* He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010.* Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011.* His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year.* The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket.* The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011.* He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>

What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 08:39 AM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB?* Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within a*few year span than anyone -ever.* Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN.* </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces.* Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries.* Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>

This is funny...someone said "Ben has had to deal with injuries". Someone else says "hey, Eli had to deal with injuries too". And then the response is "excuses....Eli is not the only QB who has to deal with injuries"...lmao!

gumby742
06-15-2012, 08:50 AM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB? Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within afew year span than anyone -ever. Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN. </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces. Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries. Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>


This is funny...someone said "Ben has had to deal with injuries". Someone else says "hey, Eli had to deal with injuries too". And then the response is "excuses....Eli is not the only QB who has to deal with injuries"...lmao!</P>


Actually the correct answer is, now that both QBs have had to deal with injuries, we can compare them QBs on a level playing playing field. And this applies to every QB.</P>


Heck, someone can mke the case that Alex Smith is a very good QB because 1) He's had injury problems. 2) He has no one to throw to. 3) He has had a number of different coaches and different offenses to learn 4) Dealing with the usual injuries that every QB has to go through etc.</P>

Drez
06-15-2012, 09:42 AM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</p>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</p>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB? Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within afew year span than anyone -ever. Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN. </p>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces. Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries. Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</p>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</p>
FFS, you really are a piece of work. You asked what injuries Eli had, so I quoted someone who listed them. In '10, we fielded something like 8 or 9 different OL combinations.

And it wasn't that you could dig the same thing up for Ben, it was people always say that Ben's line was hurt or whatever else to point to their poor play, but do not do the same for Eli.

But, I wouldn't expect you to understand that point.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-15-2012, 09:44 AM
Both have 2 super bowl rings

/thread

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 09:44 AM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!! The excuses. Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham. He simply sucked in 2010. He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010. Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011. His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year. The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket. The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011. He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>


What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?</P>


Its the NFL. Therefore......Yes.</P>


Two years ago, Rivers was playing with a bunch of guys off the street. Guys who are no longer in the league now because he lost all his WR's. Still had a huge year.</P>


Peyton made household names out of guys like Jacob Tamme and Blair White.</P>


Ben lost 2 LT's in a few weeks several years ago and won a SB.</P>


Its just part of the game. Eli isn't the only guy who's dealt with this kind of thing.</P>

gumby742
06-15-2012, 10:25 AM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB? Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within afew year span than anyone -ever. Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN. </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces. Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries. Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>



FFS, you really are a piece of work. You asked what injuries Eli had, so I quoted someone who listed them. In '10, we fielded something like 8 or 9 different OL combinations.

And it wasn't that you could dig the same thing up for Ben, it was people always say that Ben's line was hurt or whatever else to point to their poor play, but do not do the same for Eli.

But, I wouldn't expect you to understand that point.
</P>


Well, i asked about the injuries within the context of the current discussion.</P>


<U>I suggest you go back and reread some of the old posts as for who gave excuses first</U>. It usually went like this: "Eli is better then Ben because of stats XYZ." "Actuall if you normalize the stats per attempt, Ben blows Eli out of the water" "Well, Eli has had to deal with WRs who drops balls, the windy meadow lands, injuries, etc". Sound familiar?</P>


Heck, let me give you an <U>example</U> of something you took part of to dismiss Ben's good play in this thread. <U>In fact you were the one that started it.</U></P>


sg2: "I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli &gt;&gt; Big Ben."
FlipEmpty: "They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got."
<U>YOU</U>:"When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?"</P>


Here's another example in thsi thread:</P>


MS:"Pretty even.Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season."
<U>Mohann</U>:"In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better."
MS:"The Pitt. O line was horrible. That kid made so many plays it was rediculous. I thought he was fantastic in that game."</P>


You tell me who fired the first salvo. So who started dismiss Ben's good play first?<U> People already acknowledged Eli's good play. You amongst others were the ones who started dismissing Ben's.</U></P>

THE_New_York_Giants
06-15-2012, 10:26 AM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB?* Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within a*few year span than anyone -ever.* Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN.* </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces.* Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries.* Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>



FFS, you really are a piece of work. You asked what injuries Eli had, so I quoted someone who listed them. In '10, we fielded something like 8 or 9 different OL combinations.

And it wasn't that you could dig the same thing up for Ben, it was people always say that Ben's line was hurt or whatever else to point to their poor play, but do not do the same for Eli.

But, I wouldn't expect you to understand that point.
</P>


Well, i asked about the injuries within the context of the current discussion.</P>


I suggest you go back and reread some of the old posts as for who gave excuses first.* It usually went like this:* "Eli is better then Ben because of stats XYZ.*"* "Actuall if you normalize the stats per attempt, Ben blows Eli out of the water" "Well, Eli has had to deal with WRs who drops balls, the windy meadow lands, injuries, etc".* Sound familiar?</P>


Heck, let me give you an example of something you took part of to dismiss Ben's good play in this thread.* In fact you were the one that started it.</P>


sg2: "I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli >> Big Ben."
FlipEmpty: "They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got."
YOU:"When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?"</P>


Here's another example in thsi thread:</P>


MS:"Pretty even.Both have 2 SB's.* I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43.* He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season."
Mohann:"In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better."
MS:"The Pitt. O line was horrible.* That kid made so many plays it was rediculous.* I thought he was fantastic in that game."</P>


You tell me who fired the first salvo.* So who started dismiss Ben's good play first?* People already acknowledged Eli's good play.* You amongst others were the ones who started dismissing Ben's.</P>

both have 2 sb rings

/thread

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 10:31 AM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB? Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within afew year span than anyone -ever. Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN. </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces. Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries. Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>



FFS, you really are a piece of work. You asked what injuries Eli had, so I quoted someone who listed them. In '10, we fielded something like 8 or 9 different OL combinations.

And it wasn't that you could dig the same thing up for Ben, it was people always say that Ben's line was hurt or whatever else to point to their poor play, but do not do the same for Eli.

But, I wouldn't expect you to understand that point.
</P>


Well, i asked about the injuries within the context of the current discussion.</P>


<U>I suggest you go back and reread some of the old posts as for who gave excuses first</U>. It usually went like this: "Eli is better then Ben because of stats XYZ." "Actuall if you normalize the stats per attempt, Ben blows Eli out of the water" "Well, Eli has had to deal with WRs who drops balls, the windy meadow lands, injuries, etc". Sound familiar?</P>


Heck, let me give you an <U>example</U> of something you took part of to dismiss Ben's good play in this thread. <U>In fact you were the one that started it.</U></P>


sg2: "I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli &gt;&gt; Big Ben."
FlipEmpty: "They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got."
<U>YOU</U>:"When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?"</P>


Here's another example in thsi thread:</P>


MS:"Pretty even.Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season."
<U>Mohann</U>:"In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better."
MS:"The Pitt. O line was horrible. That kid made so many plays it was rediculous. I thought he was fantastic in that game."</P>


You tell me who fired the first salvo. So who started dismiss Ben's good play first?<U> People already acknowledged Eli's good play. You amongst others were the ones who started dismissing Ben's.</U></P>


</P>


Its amazing actually how the thought police work on this MB. When I say that Ben and Eli are pretty equal, and then I talk about how well Ben played in the SB and how huge a winner he is, they interpret that as a slam on Eli.</P>


Well if I think Ben is so good, and I said that they are about even, doesn't that mean that I think Eli is that good too?</P>


Not with the thought police here. Its not good enough to sing Eli's praises, which I have done plenty of this season. You also have to tear down anyone who in their little world offers competition to Eli.</P>


Its a sad exercise. And it generally appeals to the worst in each of us. They are both outstanding players.</P>

Drez
06-15-2012, 11:38 AM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</p>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</p>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB? Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within afew year span than anyone -ever. Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN. </p>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces. Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries. Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</p>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</p>



FFS, you really are a piece of work. You asked what injuries Eli had, so I quoted someone who listed them. In '10, we fielded something like 8 or 9 different OL combinations.

And it wasn't that you could dig the same thing up for Ben, it was people always say that Ben's line was hurt or whatever else to point to their poor play, but do not do the same for Eli.

But, I wouldn't expect you to understand that point.
</p>


Well, i asked about the injuries within the context of the current discussion.</p>


<u>I suggest you go back and reread some of the old posts as for who gave excuses first</u>. It usually went like this: "Eli is better then Ben because of stats XYZ." "Actuall if you normalize the stats per attempt, Ben blows Eli out of the water" "Well, Eli has had to deal with WRs who drops balls, the windy meadow lands, injuries, etc". Sound familiar?</p>


Heck, let me give you an <u>example</u> of something you took part of to dismiss Ben's good play in this thread. <u>In fact you were the one that started it.</u></p>


sg2: "I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli &gt;&gt; Big Ben."
FlipEmpty: "They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got."
<u>YOU</u>:"When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?"</p>


Here's another example in thsi thread:</p>


MS:"Pretty even.Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season."
<u>Mohann</u>:"In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better."
MS:"The Pitt. O line was horrible. That kid made so many plays it was rediculous. I thought he was fantastic in that game."</p>


You tell me who fired the first salvo. So who started dismiss Ben's good play first?<u> People already acknowledged Eli's good play. You amongst others were the ones who started dismissing Ben's.</u></p>
Holy ****, Batman. People mentioned injuries on the Steelers, particularly their OL and how Ben had to overcome it, someone mentioned Eli never gets cut slack for injuries on his offense, you asked what injuries, I replied with a post from someone else giving some of the injuries Eli had to deal with on the offensive side of the ball, and somehow I'M the one making excuses?

So, me stating a FACT that Ben has never made the SB WITHOUT a top 5 defense is firing a salvo? It's a fact. Ben has had the benefit of a MUCH SUPERIOR defense in his SB seasons than Eli has had on the Giants.

To say that Ben himself in no small part is one of the reasons his OL looks bad is firing a salvo? Holy crap, and you say the Eli "homers" are defensive? Steelers forums are THIS WAY (http://forums.steelersfever.com/)

zimonami
06-15-2012, 11:51 AM
Not with the thought police here.* Its not good enough to sing Eli's praises, which I have done plenty of this season.* You also have to tear down anyone who in their little world offers competition to Eli.</P>


Its a sad exercise.* And it generally appeals to the worst in each of us.** They are both outstanding players.</P>

Thank you, Morehead.... people need to be reminded of that every so often. That's one of the reasons I don't get involved with posts where there are strong opinions in either direction. Like Eli vs. any human in the world. You could find a reason to say Eli is similar to Mother Theresa, and you'd get roasted fo a variety of reasons that don't mean diddly. You always have to explain and defend yourself when what you wrote seemed pretty clear. You give them a link that supports your case and they never read it, and then criticize you without having a clue what your simple point was.
Oh, well. we're all human and we're all guilty of it at times...
but things would be a lot less frosty and frothy in here if peeps would relax a bit

ryan12
06-15-2012, 12:27 PM
no

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 12:48 PM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB?* Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within a*few year span than anyone -ever.* Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN.* </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces.* Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries.* Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>


This is funny...someone said "Ben has had to deal with injuries". Someone else says "hey, Eli had to deal with injuries too". And then the response is "excuses....Eli is not the only QB who has to deal with injuries"...lmao!</P>


Actually the correct answer is, now that both QBs have had to deal with injuries, we can compare them QBs on a level playing playing field.* And this applies to every QB.</P>


Heck, someone can mke the case that Alex Smith is a very good QB because 1)* He's had injury problems.* 2) He has no one to throw to.* 3)* He has had a number of different coaches and different offenses to learn 4)* Dealing with the usual injuries that every QB has to go through etc.</P>

I agree...Alex Smith has had to deal with more-than-average amount of adversity. Give him a more stable and supportive environment and he might really turn out to be something special. He's not there yet, but he showed flashes enough this past year to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 12:50 PM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB? Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within afew year span than anyone -ever. Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN. </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces. Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries. Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>


This is funny...someone said "Ben has had to deal with injuries". Someone else says "hey, Eli had to deal with injuries too". And then the response is "excuses....Eli is not the only QB who has to deal with injuries"...lmao!</P>


Actually the correct answer is, now that both QBs have had to deal with injuries, we can compare them QBs on a level playing playing field. And this applies to every QB.</P>


Heck, someone can mke the case that Alex Smith is a very good QB because 1) He's had injury problems. 2) He has no one to throw to. 3) He has had a number of different coaches and different offenses to learn 4) Dealing with the usual injuries that every QB has to go through etc.</P>


I agree...Alex Smith has had to deal with more-than-average amount of adversity. Give him a more stable and supportive environment and he might really turn out to be something special. He's not there yet, but he showed flashes enough this past year to be given the benefit of the doubt.</P>


Eli hater!</P>

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 12:53 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!!* The excuses.** Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham.* He simply sucked in 2010.* He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010.* Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011.* His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year.* The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket.* The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011.* He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>


What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?</P>


Its the NFL.* Therefore......Yes.</P>


Two years ago, Rivers was playing with a bunch of guys off the street.* Guys who are no longer in the league now because he lost all his WR's.* Still had a huge year.</P>


Peyton made household names out of guys like Jacob Tamme and Blair White.</P>


*Ben lost 2 LT's in a few weeks several years ago and won a SB.</P>


Its just part of the game.* Eli isn't the only guy who's dealt with this kind of thing.</P>

Yes...yes...Eli is not the only one who's dealt with this kind of thing. But as I pointed out before, this part of the thread started out with "Ben has had to deal with injuries on the offense...has Eli?" The response was "yes...he had to deal with lots of injuries to his WRs". So no one is saying "Eli is the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing". Rather, it is being said that "Ben is not the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing."

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 12:56 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!! The excuses. Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham. He simply sucked in 2010. He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010. Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011. His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year. The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket. The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011. He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>


What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?</P>


Its the NFL. Therefore......Yes.</P>


Two years ago, Rivers was playing with a bunch of guys off the street. Guys who are no longer in the league now because he lost all his WR's. Still had a huge year.</P>


Peyton made household names out of guys like Jacob Tamme and Blair White.</P>


Ben lost 2 LT's in a few weeks several years ago and won a SB.</P>


Its just part of the game. Eli isn't the only guy who's dealt with this kind of thing.</P>


Yes...yes...Eli is not the only one who's dealt with this kind of thing. But as I pointed out before, this part of the thread started out with "Ben has had to deal with injuries on the offense...has Eli?" The response was "yes...he had to deal with lots of injuries to his WRs". So no one is saying "Eli is the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing". Rather, it is being said that "Ben is not the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing."</P>


Didn't see that post. But you get my point. I think both are outstanding players. </P>


And of course...that makes me an Eli hater!</P>

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 12:59 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!!* The excuses.** Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham.* He simply sucked in 2010.* He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010.* Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011.* His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year.* The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket.* The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011.* He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>


What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?</P>


Its the NFL.* Therefore......Yes.</P>


Two years ago, Rivers was playing with a bunch of guys off the street.* Guys who are no longer in the league now because he lost all his WR's.* Still had a huge year.</P>


Peyton made household names out of guys like Jacob Tamme and Blair White.</P>


*Ben lost 2 LT's in a few weeks several years ago and won a SB.</P>


Its just part of the game.* Eli isn't the only guy who's dealt with this kind of thing.</P>


Yes...yes...Eli is not the only one who's dealt with this kind of thing. But as I pointed out before, this part of the thread started out with "Ben has had to deal with injuries on the offense...has Eli?" The response was "yes...he had to deal with lots of injuries to his WRs". So no one is saying "Eli is the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing". Rather, it is being said that "Ben is not the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing."</P>


Didn't see that post.* But you get my point.* I think both are outstanding players.* </P>


And of course...that makes me an Eli hater!</P>

You can see it in the nested quotes in this message. Someone brought up Ben dealing with OLine injuries, and Gumby says "We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?"...to which I made the response about Eli dealing with WR injuries. Which of course makes me a blind Eli worshipper...

onlineprof
06-15-2012, 01:01 PM
The list has them as #30 and #31. Do I think Eli should be ranked higher, and higher then Ben? Yes. Do I think Ben should be right there near him? Yes again.

But Ben has dirt around him and has had some real PR issues. I would take Eli anyday.

gumby742
06-15-2012, 01:06 PM
We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>




How about these?


Ppl got on Eli hard for his 25 INTs' in 2010, meanwhile that season we started 4 different players at LT, LG and C EACH. And that's in addition to receivers Nicks, Smith, Manningham and Hixon all missing time that year AND bradshaw missing time from injury. I don't think ppl realize just how badly we were injured on offense in 2010.
</P>


And you don't think someone can dig up injuries, not just for Ben, but for every other QB? Please, Ben has had more different olinemen within afew year span than anyone -ever. Don't quote me on that, but I heard something like that said on ESPN. </P>


My point being, injuries and having to deal with adversity is hardly something only Eli faces. Technically you can say that Ben had to deal with Santonio Holmes leaving, and a ton of other injuries. Losing Pouncey, Starks, Colon, etc for the season. Wallace, Sanders, Ward, etc all missed games last year or played hurt.</P>


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/514765-injuries-starting-to-pile-up-for-the-pittsburgh-steelers</P>



FFS, you really are a piece of work. You asked what injuries Eli had, so I quoted someone who listed them. In '10, we fielded something like 8 or 9 different OL combinations.

And it wasn't that you could dig the same thing up for Ben, it was people always say that Ben's line was hurt or whatever else to point to their poor play, but do not do the same for Eli.

But, I wouldn't expect you to understand that point.
</P>


Well, i asked about the injuries within the context of the current discussion.</P>


<U>I suggest you go back and reread some of the old posts as for who gave excuses first</U>. It usually went like this: "Eli is better then Ben because of stats XYZ." "Actuall if you normalize the stats per attempt, Ben blows Eli out of the water" "Well, Eli has had to deal with WRs who drops balls, the windy meadow lands, injuries, etc". Sound familiar?</P>


Heck, let me give you an <U>example</U> of something you took part of to dismiss Ben's good play in this thread. <U>In fact you were the one that started it.</U></P>


sg2: "I bet there are a good bunch of Steeler fans who would take Eli over Ben. Eli &gt;&gt; Big Ben."
FlipEmpty: "They've been to three Super Bowls under Ben and won two. I reckon they're pretty happy with what they've got."
<U>YOU</U>:"When was the last time the Steelers made it to a SB with a defense that ranked lower than 5th in the NFL in yards and/or scoring?"</P>


Here's another example in thsi thread:</P>


MS:"Pretty even.Both have 2 SB's. I thought Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played in SB 43. He also has been a prolific winner in the regular season."
<U>Mohann</U>:"In SB 43 Ben played one of the greatest games a QB ever played? It was a good game vs. one of the worst teams to ever play in the SB. I bet I could come up with 10 Super Bowl performances that are better."
MS:"The Pitt. O line was horrible. That kid made so many plays it was rediculous. I thought he was fantastic in that game."</P>


You tell me who fired the first salvo. So who started dismiss Ben's good play first?<U> People already acknowledged Eli's good play. You amongst others were the ones who started dismissing Ben's.</U></P>



Holy ****, Batman. People mentioned injuries on the Steelers, particularly their OL and how Ben had to overcome it, someone mentioned Eli never gets cut slack for injuries on his offense, you asked what injuries, I replied with a post from someone else giving some of the injuries Eli had to deal with on the offensive side of the ball, and somehow I'M the one making excuses?

So, me stating a FACT that Ben has never made the SB WITHOUT a top 5 defense is firing a salvo? It's a fact. Ben has had the benefit of a MUCH SUPERIOR defense in his SB seasons than Eli has had on the Giants.

To say that Ben himself in no small part is one of the reasons his OL looks bad is firing a salvo? Holy crap, and you say the Eli "homers" are defensive? Steelers forums are THIS WAY (http://forums.steelersfever.com/)
</P>


Oh, I think i understand your confusion. When I asked about injuries, I wanted to know exactly what injuries people were targetting so I had something to compare against. <U>I was NOT implying that Eli didn't have to face any adversity</U>. Every QB faces adversity. Thus, for the most part when comparing QBs, it's a level playing field with regards to dropped passes, injury, etc. So I believe this is where you're getting the "Injuries apply to Ben not Eli" right?</P>


Yes, you stating the fact that Ben has never made the SB without a top 5 defense <U>is a salvo. Not absolutely, but relatively</U>. "Realists" have made <U>similar factual statements, but Eli fans got all riled up</U>. Eli fans have been the ones instigating these defensive conversations all along.</P>


Case and point in the Eli stats thread. I said something along the lines of , </P>


<U>Fact</U> - Me: "To put things in perspective, Ben, Eli, Rivers etc are all on pace to smash the records of the all time greats. But the new generation of young QBs are on pace to beat the stats of Ben, Eli, and Rivers."</P>


<U>Defensive</U>: 420: &lt;insert defensive words&gt;"..... "<U>cheapening Eli's stats</U>" "&lt;insert defensive words&gt;</P>


Is what I said a salvo? Absolutely not. But Eli fans turned it into one. And that's how it usually starts.</P>

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 02:24 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!! The excuses. Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham. He simply sucked in 2010. He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010. Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011. His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year. The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket. The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011. He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>


What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?</P>


Its the NFL. Therefore......Yes.</P>


Two years ago, Rivers was playing with a bunch of guys off the street. Guys who are no longer in the league now because he lost all his WR's. Still had a huge year.</P>


Peyton made household names out of guys like Jacob Tamme and Blair White.</P>


Ben lost 2 LT's in a few weeks several years ago and won a SB.</P>


Its just part of the game. Eli isn't the only guy who's dealt with this kind of thing.</P>


Yes...yes...Eli is not the only one who's dealt with this kind of thing. But as I pointed out before, this part of the thread started out with "Ben has had to deal with injuries on the offense...has Eli?" The response was "yes...he had to deal with lots of injuries to his WRs". So no one is saying "Eli is the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing". Rather, it is being said that "Ben is not the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing."</P>


Didn't see that post. But you get my point. I think both are outstanding players. </P>


And of course...that makes me an Eli hater!</P>


You can see it in the nested quotes in this message. Someone brought up Ben dealing with OLine injuries, and Gumby says "We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?"...to which I made the response about Eli dealing with WR injuries. Which of course makes me a blind Eli worshipper...</P>


As long as we each know our place here.</P>

gumby742
06-15-2012, 03:18 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a5 (don't remember the exact number) year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!! The excuses. Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham. He simply sucked in 2010. He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010. Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011. His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year. The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket. The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011. He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>


What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?</P>


Its the NFL. Therefore......Yes.</P>


Two years ago, Rivers was playing with a bunch of guys off the street. Guys who are no longer in the league now because he lost all his WR's. Still had a huge year.</P>


Peyton made household names out of guys like Jacob Tamme and Blair White.</P>


Ben lost 2 LT's in a few weeks several years ago and won a SB.</P>


Its just part of the game. Eli isn't the only guy who's dealt with this kind of thing.</P>


Yes...yes...Eli is not the only one who's dealt with this kind of thing. But as I pointed out before, this part of the thread started out with "Ben has had to deal with injuries on the offense...has Eli?" The response was "yes...he had to deal with lots of injuries to his WRs". So no one is saying "Eli is the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing". Rather, it is being said that "Ben is not the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing."</P>


Didn't see that post. But you get my point. I think both are outstanding players. </P>


And of course...that makes me an Eli hater!</P>


You can see it in the nested quotes in this message. Someone brought up Ben dealing with OLine injuries, and Gumby says "We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?"...to which I made the response about Eli dealing with WR injuries. Which of course makes me a blind Eli worshipper...</P>


Btw, I asked that question I was not insinuating anything. I think it was perceived as "Eli didn't have to face any adversity" when I said "What injuries?" I didn't mean it that way. I just wanted to know what injuries you guys were talking about.</P>

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 04:54 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!!* The excuses.** Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham.* He simply sucked in 2010.* He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010.* Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011.* His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year.* The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket.* The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011.* He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>


What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?</P>


Its the NFL.* Therefore......Yes.</P>


Two years ago, Rivers was playing with a bunch of guys off the street.* Guys who are no longer in the league now because he lost all his WR's.* Still had a huge year.</P>


Peyton made household names out of guys like Jacob Tamme and Blair White.</P>


*Ben lost 2 LT's in a few weeks several years ago and won a SB.</P>


Its just part of the game.* Eli isn't the only guy who's dealt with this kind of thing.</P>


Yes...yes...Eli is not the only one who's dealt with this kind of thing. But as I pointed out before, this part of the thread started out with "Ben has had to deal with injuries on the offense...has Eli?" The response was "yes...he had to deal with lots of injuries to his WRs". So no one is saying "Eli is the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing". Rather, it is being said that "Ben is not the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing."</P>


Didn't see that post.* But you get my point.* I think both are outstanding players.* </P>


And of course...that makes me an Eli hater!</P>


You can see it in the nested quotes in this message. Someone brought up Ben dealing with OLine injuries, and Gumby says "We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?"...to which I made the response about Eli dealing with WR injuries. Which of course makes me a blind Eli worshipper...</P>


As long as we each know our place here.</P>

Hater.

lawl
06-15-2012, 06:11 PM
Heck, I rank out of the top 100 for his character flaws alone</P>

If only he went to ole miss. Then all would be well.

THE_New_York_Giants
06-15-2012, 06:26 PM
i love this misconception that pitt OL is a joke. Their run game is constantly top 5 or in that area. they had those pass protection issues due to injuries, but even still, they had patches of good play. and its not as if their players are all off the street scrubs...they're players taken in the same rounds we took our OL... and i believe its a chicken or the egg type situation, similar with vick. both are at their best extending a play and giving their wr's time to freelance and get open. both qbs have their best passing success on plays that break down....maybe both are causing their OL to look bad by holding the ball too long and not making the proper quick reads... i mean how does an OL rank among the best in the league in run blocking, and are acted like they belong in a womens softball league? also, if u actually look into the issue bc I have, both Pitt and Phillys back ups had little to no issue with their OL...when the qb starts running around behind the LOS and breaking the pocket every time, its gonna be near impossible to pass protect as a prototypical OL</P>


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that Pitt has had more different starting olinemen over a*5 (don't remember the exact number) *year period than anyone - ever.</P>


yeah that is true they deal with injuries. but if we dont get any slack for them then pitt shouldnt either. im not sayn pitts ol is world class in pass protection, but to act like heyre pitiful and worthless isnt justified...its a combo of things but ben trying to extend plays aint helping that OL</P>


We're comparing Ben and Eli right?* You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries.* So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?</P>


In 2010, wasn't he throwing to WRs who were signed off the street mid-season (like Derek Hagan, Michael Clayton, etc) because of injuries to the guys we entered the season with?</P>


Hahahaha!!!* The excuses.** Eli had just as many picks with Nicks and Manningham.* He simply sucked in 2010.* He was great in 2011, but sucked in 2010.* Look at some film of his pocket movement in 2011.* His lateral movement to create an extra second or two is something he lacked until last year.* The old Eli chucked the ball into coverage at that point instead of using his feet properly to move the pocket.* The "skiddish" Eli was gone in 2011.* He was replaced with the "calm in the pocket" Eli.</P>


What excuses? Someone asked what injuries did Eli have to deal with, and I cited WRs. Did he not have to deal with injuries at WR?</P>


Its the NFL.* Therefore......Yes.</P>


Two years ago, Rivers was playing with a bunch of guys off the street.* Guys who are no longer in the league now because he lost all his WR's.* Still had a huge year.</P>


Peyton made household names out of guys like Jacob Tamme and Blair White.</P>


*Ben lost 2 LT's in a few weeks several years ago and won a SB.</P>


Its just part of the game.* Eli isn't the only guy who's dealt with this kind of thing.</P>


Yes...yes...Eli is not the only one who's dealt with this kind of thing. But as I pointed out before, this part of the thread started out with "Ben has had to deal with injuries on the offense...has Eli?" The response was "yes...he had to deal with lots of injuries to his WRs". So no one is saying "Eli is the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing". Rather, it is being said that "Ben is not the only guy who is dealing with this kind of thing."</P>


Didn't see that post.* But you get my point.* I think both are outstanding players.* </P>


And of course...that makes me an Eli hater!</P>


You can see it in the nested quotes in this message. Someone brought up Ben dealing with OLine injuries, and Gumby says "We're comparing Ben and Eli right? You mentioned Eli not getting any slack for injuries. So from Eli's point of view, what injuries has he had to deal with that you're talking about in particular?"...to which I made the response about Eli dealing with WR injuries. Which of course makes me a blind Eli worshipper...</P>


As long as we each know our place here.</P>

Hater.

Sometimes, my foot itches and then I scratch it and it feels better.