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Morehead State
06-15-2012, 12:42 PM
Its not enough to like our QB. Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise. No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say......... "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.</P>


Conclusion: You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say:......... "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.</P>


Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him. </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great. When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>

Mercury
06-15-2012, 12:52 PM
<font color="#FF0000">Eli Hater.</font>

byron
06-15-2012, 12:56 PM
Its not enough to like our QB. Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise. No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say......... "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.</P>


Conclusion: You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say:......... "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.</P>


Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him. </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great. When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>


yeahits ****ing crazy.....Like I said in another thread they like Eli so much they are justblinded by it they must watch every gamejust to see him make every singleplay...</P>


fight power Mh !</P>

Drez
06-15-2012, 12:58 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.

B&RWarrior
06-15-2012, 12:58 PM
Its not enough to like our QB.* Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise.* No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say.........** "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.*</P>


Conclusion:** You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say:.........* "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.****</P>


*Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him.** </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great.* When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>

I'm notorious for not buying into the Eli is the G.O.A.T. bull.

Eli had a great season and he shows a trend of improvement from his rookie year. This year he was great. He has not been great for his career.

This is the first year he put the team on his back.

Eli is one of the best QB's in the game now. He is not the best. He is not an all-time great NFL QB yet.

Rings alone is not an indicator of greatness. Ross has two rings is he the best CB ever?

Toadofsteel
06-15-2012, 01:19 PM
I wouldn't call you an Eli hater for saying something like rodgers or brees are better. But I'd still take Eli over either of those guys. Rodgers and Brady would have disintegrated in that position with the o-line we had. The 49ers had beaten Brees the week before.

B&RWarrior
06-15-2012, 01:22 PM
I wouldn't call you an Eli hater for saying something like rodgers or brees are better. But I'd still take Eli over either of those guys. Rodgers and Brady would have disintegrated in that position with the o-line we had. The 49ers had beaten Brees the week before.

49ers beat the Saints. Brees doesn't play defense.

Roosevelt
06-15-2012, 01:36 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.


If you're suggesting people only post in threads they agree in then obviously you shouldn't have posted here.

Drez
06-15-2012, 01:41 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.


If you're suggesting people only post in threads they agree in then obviously you shouldn't have posted here.

Well played, sir. Well played. lol.

Toadofsteel
06-15-2012, 01:44 PM
I wouldn't call you an Eli hater for saying something like rodgers or brees are better. But I'd still take Eli over either of those guys. Rodgers and Brady would have disintegrated in that position with the o-line we had. The 49ers had beaten Brees the week before.

49ers beat the Saints. Brees doesn't play defense.

I'm talking specifically about the 49ers defense though. Ignore Alex smith for a second. The 49ers had one of the best defenses in the league last year. Like us, they base their defense on the pass rush and putting the QB under siege for most of the game. Look at how the pass rush completely dismantled Brady in 2007, and even with Brady heavily preparing for it still wore him down in 2011. What I'm saying is that even though Eli might not have the numbers of Brady, Brees, or Rodgers, he has the toughness to endure that and not miss a beat. You could tell with the way the Giants defense played against Rodgers and Brady this postseason that they were thrown off their game. Look at all the dropped passes between those two games... I fully believe that was because of timing disruptions that the pass rush brings to the QB. And because Eli can play through that, I'd rather have him as my QB even if he's not as talented as several others.

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 01:48 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.
</P>


Nonsense. I objected to the "Eli carried this team on his back" comment, which is an insult to every other player on our team.</P>


As far as the stats thread, my point was that play on the field is what determines how great a QB is, not the amount of stats he accumulates over a long career. I think its Eli's play on the filed that makes him an outstanding QB.</P>


Your twisted interpretations here are exactly what I'm talking about. I question the use of stats to determine how good a player is, and you immediately interpret that as an attack on Eli. Early in Eli's career, when his stats weren't that good but he was super clutch at the end of games, I was making the exact same claim, all in support of Eli. its called consistency. You might want to try it.</P>


It was an attack on the use of stats. How could a reasonable person believe anything else.</P>


</P>

scf424
06-15-2012, 01:51 PM
Sports fans in general get butthurt over stupid stuff anyway.

Drez
06-15-2012, 01:57 PM
Nonsense. I objected to the "Eli carried this team on his back" comment, which is an insult to every other player on our team.</p>

Then you are about the only person that doesn't believe that Eli carried the team on his back this past season. Even his TEAMMATES have said as much.
</p>



As far as the stats thread, my point was that play on the field is what determines how great a QB is, not the amount of stats he accumulates over a long career. I think its Eli's play on the filed that makes him an outstanding QB.</p>

Again, the basis of the thread was not measure Eli's greatness or not as a QB, but rather to speculate what his stats would be at the end of his career and where they would rank on the all time lists. It needed not to progress beyond that. But, of course, you didn't see it that way and needed to turn the thread into something else completely.
</p>



Your twisted interpretations here are exactly what I'm talking about. I question the use of stats to determine how good a player is, and you immediately interpret that as an attack on Eli. Early in Eli's career, when his stats weren't that good but he was super clutch at the end of games, I was making the exact same claim, all in support of Eli. its called consistency. You might want to try it.</p>


It was an attack on the use of stats. How could a reasonable person believe anything else.</p>


In the career stats thread no one was using stats to say how great a QB was until you and Gumby changed the nature of the thread. And really, you aren't the one to be talking about consistency on the subject either. For instance in the Stats thread you said stats are meaningless... When someone said all Eli had to do to get a HoF nod was to have good statistical seasons, not great, you said that he would need better stats to get in? So which is it? Are stats meaningless or not?</p>

The issue is just about whenever there's a thread saying something positive about Eli, several posters such as yourself attempt to deflect any of the praise being given.
</p>

dezzzR
06-15-2012, 01:57 PM
As with any public debate, both sides have their extremists.

FBomb
06-15-2012, 01:59 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>

firstgamein49
06-15-2012, 01:59 PM
Children please! All of you like Eli to some extent. All of you like JPP to some extent. Whether or not it's passionate love doesn't matter. We're all Giants' fans. When I was very young, the G QB was Charlie Connerly. At the time, his best plays were throwing the ball away w/o getting called for grounding! Tim Mara began to draft some good players to play around CC. Rote, Brown, Gifford, Webster, and then they got a new HC, JL Howell, and OC DC coaches named Lombardi and Landry. All of a sudden, CC became a much better player, and fans began to love on him!
Eli has been pretty fortunate to have good players around him as he matured as a QB. Now he's one of the best, and if you really don't like him, go root for the Boys, or the Saints, or whoever. But know that you're living in an era of Giant greatness, and one of the reasons for the greatness id ELI. It hasn't always been this way. Appreciate what we have as a team, and as a QB. MS and Gumby, because of our constitution and freedom on our message boards, you're free to make your comments, but please don't try to stir the pot just for controversy! It's too hard on an old guys heart!
Excuse me, I must go split more firewood for the winter.

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 02:01 PM
Its not enough to like our QB.* Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise.* No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say.........** "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.*</P>


Conclusion:** You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say:.........* "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.****</P>


*Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him.** </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great.* When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>

On the flip side...if you say "It's a team sport, and not all of the turnover issues were solely on Eli's shoulders", the thought police interpretation is "excuses! It's all Eli's fault!"

Conclusion....You're a blind Eli Homer.

gumby742
06-15-2012, 02:10 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.
</P>


Please explain how me saying, "To put things into perspective, Ben, Eli Rivers are on pace to smash the all time greats stats, but the new generation of QBs are on pace to beat their stats." is turning it into something else. I'll take the blame for diminishing the accomplishments of <U>ALL qbs of this era</U>, but not just Eli. But you guys turned it into an Eli thing.</P>


See 420, "cheapening Eli's stats post"</P>

gumby742
06-15-2012, 02:12 PM
Its not enough to like our QB. Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise. No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say......... "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.</P>


Conclusion: You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say:......... "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.</P>


Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him. </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great. When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>


On the flip side...if you say "It's a team sport, and not all of the turnover issues were solely on Eli's shoulders", the thought police interpretation is "excuses! It's all Eli's fault!" Conclusion....You're a blind Eli Homer.</P>


This is goign to sound funny, but you guys started it first. Haha. But it's true!</P>

Drez
06-15-2012, 02:12 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.
</p>


Please explain how me saying, "To put things into perspective, Ben, Eli Rivers are on pace to smash the all time greats stats, but the new generation of QBs are on pace to beat their stats." is turning it into something else. I'll take the blame for diminishing the accomplishments of <u>ALL qbs of this era</u>, but not just Eli. But you guys turned it into an Eli thing.</p>


See 420, "cheapening Eli's stats post"</p>
Because that statement never needed to be uttered in the first place because it wasn't about the historical context in which the stats were gained, merely what and where Eli's stats were going to be.

gumby742
06-15-2012, 02:17 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.
</P>


Please explain how me saying, "To put things into perspective, Ben, Eli Rivers are on pace to smash the all time greats stats, but the new generation of QBs are on pace to beat their stats." is turning it into something else. I'll take the blame for diminishing the accomplishments of <U>ALL qbs of this era</U>, but not just Eli. But you guys turned it into an Eli thing.</P>


See 420, "cheapening Eli's stats post"</P>



Because that statement never needed to be uttered in the first place because it wasn't about the historical context in which the stats were gained, merely what and where Eli's stats were going to be.

</P>


If you're talking about me turning the thread into a negative vibe, than I'll agree with you. I'm definitely extremely cynical and analytical in nature. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate a lot, because it's something I enjoy. I'd like to think that it brings a different perspective on the table instead of everyone holding hands singing kumbaya. What's the fun in that? But, under no circumstance was I singling Eli out alone.</P>

gumby742
06-15-2012, 02:21 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Exactly. EliALONE did NOT carry the team contrary to what was suggested many times.</P>

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 02:41 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Exactly.* Eli*ALONE did NOT carry the team contrary to what was suggested many times.</P>

So you are saying that everyone else on the team EXCEPT Eli carried the team??

;-)

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 02:41 PM
Its not enough to like our QB.* Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise.* No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say.........** "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.*</P>


Conclusion:** You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say:.........* "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.****</P>


*Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him.** </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great.* When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>


On the flip side...if you say "It's a team sport, and not all of the turnover issues were solely on Eli's shoulders", the thought police interpretation is "excuses! It's all Eli's fault!" Conclusion....You're a blind Eli Homer.</P>


This is goign to sound funny, but you guys started it first.* Haha. But it's true!</P>

I thought this thread was started by Morehead??

gumby742
06-15-2012, 02:45 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Exactly. EliALONE did NOT carry the team contrary to what was suggested many times.</P>


So you are saying that everyone else on the team EXCEPT Eli carried the team?? ;-)</P>


Haha. touche</P>

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 03:20 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Exactly. EliALONE did NOT carry the team contrary to what was suggested many times.</P>


</P>


The OP in that thread suggested that Eli carried the team on his back to win the SB. That is nonsense. Our defense (which played lousy in the first 14 games) played very well in the playoffs. No way we could have won 6 straight games in a row without it.</P>

Joe Morrison
06-15-2012, 03:26 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Exactly. EliALONE did NOT carry the team contrary to what was suggested many times.</P>


</P>


The OP in that thread suggested that Eli carried the team on his back to win the SB. That is nonsense. Our defense (which played lousy in the first 14 games) played very well in the playoffs. No way we could have won 6 straight games in a row without it.</P>


</P>


And I remember the Defense starting on their own 12 yard line and putting together a scoring drive leaving only 50+ seconds for that great showing that had Tom Brady have his way with them and have a shot at a hail mary for the win. Defense played it's part at the end of the year but Eli is the reason the GMEN won the Super bowl.</P>


Don't forget the regular season, how many times did Eli put them in front with less than 2 minutes, including the Packer game only to see the defense give up 60 yards in 23 seconds to give up the win to a FG.</P>

giantsfan420
06-15-2012, 03:26 PM
and the amount of times the things MS describes actually happen?

ZERO.

those claims are baseless and come from a person who is at the least controversial with his claims. most feel hes flat wrong, but controversial is more apt.

what really happens: a thread is made about eli's stats.
a couple posters have a conversation. then a poster not unlike MS comes in, "this is such a stupid thread. theres no point to discuss this. only an idiot or homer would."
which then starts off a completely diff conversation than the OP and its about whether or not posting about eli goes overboard or whether or not a person not unlike MS is actually right and has been right...

the posters not unlike MS start with these sort of threads, or the homer diatribe to make themselves feel better about a complete stranger knowing more on a particular subject than him, in this case eli manning...

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 03:26 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>

Roosevelt
06-15-2012, 03:34 PM
I love where this thread is headed. Great job Morehead!

I need to get me some TO Popcorn and sit back and enjoy!

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4984/hotbutteredpopcorn.jpg

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 03:37 PM
I love where this thread is headed. Great job Morehead!

I need to get me some TO Popcorn and sit back and enjoy!

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4984/hotbutteredpopcorn.jpg
</P>


As usual...I am there for you Rosie!</P>

FBomb
06-15-2012, 03:38 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 03:42 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>

Drez
06-15-2012, 03:44 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</p>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</p>


</p>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</p>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</p>


</p>


Just speaking the gospel.</p>


</p>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</p>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</p>And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 03:45 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>

dezzzR
06-15-2012, 04:00 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</p>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</p>


</p>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</p>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</p>


</p>


Just speaking the gospel.</p>


</p>


<u>The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch.</u> There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</p>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</p>So would you say Ei carried the team before then?

dezzzR
06-15-2012, 04:04 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</p>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</p>


</p>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</p>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</p>


</p>


Just speaking the gospel.</p>


</p>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</p>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</p>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</p>


Didn't I just say that?</p>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</p>You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 04:04 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


<U>The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch.</U> There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


So would you say Ei carried the team before then?
</P>


He was one of the few bright spots. Victor Cruz was incredible as well. But at no time did any "one player" carry the team on his back.</P>


But of course its all moot. The OP of that thread suggested that our SB win was the product of Eli's carrying the team on his back. I completely reject that notion. Of course you also hate our defense so why am I wasting my breath.</P>

MattMeyerBud
06-15-2012, 04:07 PM
Its not enough to like our QB. Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise. No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say......... "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.</P>


Conclusion: You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say:......... "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.</P>


Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him. </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great. When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>


</P>


</P>


stop it old man.... how are your legs feeling from the bandwagon jumping?</P>


</P>


don't forget who was telling you about eli before you realized it</P>


</P>


</P>

jakegibbs
06-15-2012, 04:10 PM
CODE OF ELI THOUGHT POLICE: DEFINITION

Eli will be the measuring stick for all future NYG QB's to come for decades. I can here it now wish he were as good as Eli was during his career, he needs x amount of wins, passing yards, SB victories etc. before he's in Eli's classs & on & on & on...

Best get used to it folks cause it's a coming!!!

Delicreep
06-15-2012, 04:14 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.
</P>


Nonsense.* I objected to the "Eli carried this team on his back" comment, which is an insult to every other player on our team.</P>


As far as the stats thread, my point was that play on the field is what determines how great a QB is, not the amount of stats he accumulates over a long career.* I think its Eli's play on the filed that makes him an outstanding QB.</P>


Your twisted interpretations here are exactly what I'm talking about.* I question the use of stats to determine how good a player is, and you immediately interpret that as an attack on Eli.* Early in Eli's career, when his stats weren't that good but he was super clutch at the end of games, I was making the exact same claim, all in support of Eli.* its called consistency.* You might want to try it.</P>


It was an attack on the use of stats.* How could a reasonable person believe anything else.</P>


*</P>

Your an old man, right? Just like me.

You do realize you have taken it to the next level though, right?

You are officially standing on your front steps yelling, "you kids get off of my lawn" and following that up with a sentence that begins with, "when I was a kid..."

Why on earth would you care what fans of your own team believe about one of their favorite players? And not just care, but feel that you need to respond in any way?
Add in that you believe that they are delusional, and yet you still try and argue with them makes me question your sanity.

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 04:14 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</P>

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 04:16 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.
</P>


Nonsense. I objected to the "Eli carried this team on his back" comment, which is an insult to every other player on our team.</P>


As far as the stats thread, my point was that play on the field is what determines how great a QB is, not the amount of stats he accumulates over a long career. I think its Eli's play on the filed that makes him an outstanding QB.</P>


Your twisted interpretations here are exactly what I'm talking about. I question the use of stats to determine how good a player is, and you immediately interpret that as an attack on Eli. Early in Eli's career, when his stats weren't that good but he was super clutch at the end of games, I was making the exact same claim, all in support of Eli. its called consistency. You might want to try it.</P>


It was an attack on the use of stats. How could a reasonable person believe anything else.</P>


</P>


Your an old man, right? Just like me. You do realize you have taken it to the next level though, right? You are officially standing on your front steps yelling, "you kids get off of my lawn" and following that up with a sentence that begins with, "when I was a kid..." Why on earth would you care what fans of your own team believe about one of their favorite players? And not just care, but feel that you need to respond in any way? Add in that you believe that they are delusional, and yet you still try and argue with them makes me question your sanity.</P>


I must turn wrongs into right. I must fight the oppression on this MB.</P>


Of course I don't disagree with anything you just said. And I never claimed I was sane.</P>

dezzzR
06-15-2012, 04:19 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</p>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</p>


</p>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</p>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</p>


</p>


Just speaking the gospel.</p>


</p>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</p>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</p>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</p>


Didn't I just say that?</p>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</p>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</p>


Well here are the facts.</p>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</p>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</p>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</p>So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 04:21 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</P>


So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH
</P>


Not what I'm saying Sweetie. I'm saying that other players impacted our team as well.</P>


If we had lost Eli to injury, we would have sucked. Of course that partly to do with David Carr as our backup. I liked Sage a lot better.</P>

dezzzR
06-15-2012, 04:27 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</p>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</p>


</p>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</p>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</p>


</p>


Just speaking the gospel.</p>


</p>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</p>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</p>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</p>


Didn't I just say that?</p>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</p>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</p>


Well here are the facts.</p>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</p>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</p>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</p>


So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH
</p>


Not what I'm saying Sweetie. I'm saying that other players impacted our team as well.</p>


If we had lost Eli to injury, we would have sucked. Of course that partly to do with David Carr as our backup. I liked Sage a lot better.</p> You said "But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley." You were implying that he was so important, that we lost because he was injured. aka someone that carries a team.

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 04:33 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</P>


So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH
</P>


Not what I'm saying Sweetie. I'm saying that other players impacted our team as well.</P>


If we had lost Eli to injury, we would have sucked. Of course that partly to do with David Carr as our backup. I liked Sage a lot better.</P>


You said "But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley." You were implying that he was so important, that we lost because he was injured. You are caught!
</P>


I implyed nothing. I stated an undeniable fact. My implication was that other players have had an effect on our teams performance during the regular season. It wasn't just "Eli and a bunch of bums" that some here would suggest.</P>


If Eli "carried the team on his back" why couldn't he "carry the team on his back" enough to win even one of those 4 games in our losing streak , including against a banged up Eagles team in our place where we scored 10 points.</P>


Answer.................Thats just not the way the NFL works.</P>

Neverend
06-15-2012, 04:42 PM
Michael Boley only missed 2 games last year

dezzzR
06-15-2012, 04:43 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</p>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</p>


</p>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</p>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</p>


</p>


Just speaking the gospel.</p>


</p>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</p>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</p>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</p>


Didn't I just say that?</p>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</p>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</p>


Well here are the facts.</p>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</p>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</p>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</p>


So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH
</p>


Not what I'm saying Sweetie. I'm saying that other players impacted our team as well.</p>


If we had lost Eli to injury, we would have sucked. Of course that partly to do with David Carr as our backup. I liked Sage a lot better.</p>


You said "But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley." You were implying that he was so important, that we lost because he was injured. You are caught!
</p>


I implyed nothing. I stated an undeniable fact. <u>My implication was that other players have had an effect on our teams performance during the regular season.</u> It wasn't just "Eli and a bunch of bums" that some here would suggest.</p>


If Eli "carried the team on his back" why couldn't he "carry the team on his back" enough to win even one of those 4 games in our losing streak , including against a banged up Eagles team in our place where we scored 10 points.</p>


Answer.................Thats just not the way the NFL works.</p>You just said the "defense was so lousy the first 14 games"!! lol ya craaazy

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 04:43 PM
Michael Boley only missed 2 games last year</P>


He got hurt early in the SF game. But I thought he didn't come back until the Cowboys game. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.</P>

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 04:44 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</P>


So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH
</P>


Not what I'm saying Sweetie. I'm saying that other players impacted our team as well.</P>


If we had lost Eli to injury, we would have sucked. Of course that partly to do with David Carr as our backup. I liked Sage a lot better.</P>


You said "But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley." You were implying that he was so important, that we lost because he was injured. You are caught!
</P>


I implyed nothing. I stated an undeniable fact. <U>My implication was that other players have had an effect on our teams performance during the regular season.</U> It wasn't just "Eli and a bunch of bums" that some here would suggest.</P>


If Eli "carried the team on his back" why couldn't he "carry the team on his back" enough to win even one of those 4 games in our losing streak , including against a banged up Eagles team in our place where we scored 10 points.</P>


Answer.................Thats just not the way the NFL works.</P>


You just said the "defense was so lousy the first 14 games"!! lol ya craaazy

</P>


They were but not every game. they were especially bad during the losing streak.</P>

jakegibbs
06-15-2012, 04:47 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F?** Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so.* Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch.* There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well.* But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley.* One could argue that Boley was as important to the team.* We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley:**** 13-3*** 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley:* 0-4**** 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts.* Draw your own conclusions.</P>


So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH
</P>


Not what I'm saying Sweetie.* I'm saying that other players impacted our team as well.</P>


If we had lost Eli to injury, we would have sucked.* Of course that partly to do with David Carr as our backup.* I liked Sage a lot better.</P>


You said "But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley." You were implying that he was so important, that we lost because he was injured. You are caught!
</P>


I implyed nothing.* I stated an undeniable fact.* My implication was that other players have had an effect on our teams performance during the regular season.* It wasn't just "Eli and a bunch of bums" that some here would suggest.</P>


If Eli "carried the team on his back" why couldn't he "carry the team on his back" enough to win even one of those 4 games in our losing streak , including against a banged up Eagles team in our place where we scored 10 points.</P>


Answer.................Thats just not the way the NFL works.</P>

Forget about the 4 game losing streak & look at the 2011 season as a whole.

Eli Manning 2011 Season

2011: NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15)
2011: Tied NFL Record for longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards)
Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)[112]
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1219 yards, 2011)
Super Bowl XLVI: Most consecutive completions to begin a Super Bowl (9)
Active leader for most consecutive starts by a National Football League quarterback (119, 3rd all-time)

Ben Roethlisberger 2011 Season

Most Consecutive Games With 300+ Yards Passing — 3 (from October 23, 2011 through November 6, 2011)
Most 200+ Yard Passing Games — 13 (2009 & 2011)
Most 300+ Yard Passing Games — 5 (2009 & 2011)[

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 04:50 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</P>


So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH
</P>


Not what I'm saying Sweetie. I'm saying that other players impacted our team as well.</P>


If we had lost Eli to injury, we would have sucked. Of course that partly to do with David Carr as our backup. I liked Sage a lot better.</P>


You said "But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley." You were implying that he was so important, that we lost because he was injured. You are caught!
</P>


I implyed nothing. I stated an undeniable fact. My implication was that other players have had an effect on our teams performance during the regular season. It wasn't just "Eli and a bunch of bums" that some here would suggest.</P>


If Eli "carried the team on his back" why couldn't he "carry the team on his back" enough to win even one of those 4 games in our losing streak , including against a banged up Eagles team in our place where we scored 10 points.</P>


Answer.................Thats just not the way the NFL works.</P>


Forget about the 4 game losing streak &amp; look at the 2011 season as a whole. Eli Manning 2011 Season 2011: NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15) 2011: Tied NFL Record for longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards) Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)[112] Most passing yards in a single postseason (1219 yards, 2011) Super Bowl XLVI: Most consecutive completions to begin a Super Bowl (9) Active leader for most consecutive starts by a National Football League quarterback (119, 3rd all-time) Ben Roethlisberger 2011 Season Most Consecutive Games With 300+ Yards Passing — 3 (from October 23, 2011 through November 6, 2011) Most 200+ Yard Passing Games — 13 (2009 &amp; 2011) Most 300+ Yard Passing Games — 5 (2009 &amp; 2011)[</P>


"Play on the field!!!</P>


That's what matters. Eli had a great year and we are all happy he did. You hate Ben for other reasons, so your views lack credibility.</P>


You guys and your stats....Ughh!!</P>


</P>

jakegibbs
06-15-2012, 04:55 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F?** Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so.* Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch.* There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well.* But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley.* One could argue that Boley was as important to the team.* We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley:**** 13-3*** 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley:* 0-4**** 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts.* Draw your own conclusions.</P>


So now youre saying one man DOES make a difference and CAN help carry a team. You just Plaxed yourself MH
</P>


Not what I'm saying Sweetie.* I'm saying that other players impacted our team as well.</P>


If we had lost Eli to injury, we would have sucked.* Of course that partly to do with David Carr as our backup.* I liked Sage a lot better.</P>


You said "But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley." You were implying that he was so important, that we lost because he was injured. You are caught!
</P>


I implyed nothing.* I stated an undeniable fact.* My implication was that other players have had an effect on our teams performance during the regular season.* It wasn't just "Eli and a bunch of bums" that some here would suggest.</P>


If Eli "carried the team on his back" why couldn't he "carry the team on his back" enough to win even one of those 4 games in our losing streak , including against a banged up Eagles team in our place where we scored 10 points.</P>


Answer.................Thats just not the way the NFL works.</P>


Forget about the 4 game losing streak & look at the 2011 season as a whole. Eli Manning 2011 Season 2011: NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15) 2011: Tied NFL Record for longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards) Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)[112] Most passing yards in a single postseason (1219 yards, 2011) Super Bowl XLVI: Most consecutive completions to begin a Super Bowl (9) Active leader for most consecutive starts by a National Football League quarterback (119, 3rd all-time) Ben Roethlisberger 2011 Season Most Consecutive Games With 300+ Yards Passing — 3 (from October 23, 2011 through November 6, 2011) Most 200+ Yard Passing Games — 13 (2009 & 2011) Most 300+ Yard Passing Games — 5 (2009 & 2011)[</P>


"Play on the field!!!</P>


That's what matters.* Eli had a great year and we are all happy he did.* You hate Ben for other reasons, so your views lack credibility.</P>


You guys and your stats....Ughh!!</P>


*</P>

Stats. & SB MVP's weigh heavily when it comes to induction into the HOF. Are men the only voters?

dezzzR
06-15-2012, 05:00 PM
Morehead: I am the ultimate Phil butt boy and always will be.

This was taken from another thread. I have theory that MoreHead loves Phil so much, that when Eli outshines him in anyway, he gets a little bit crazier. We can only imagine if Eli gets another ring.

jakegibbs
06-15-2012, 05:03 PM
Morehead: I am the ultimate Phil butt boy and always will be.

This was taken from another thread. I have theory that MoreHead loves Phil so much, that when Eli outshines him in anyway, he gets a little bit crazier. We can only imagine if Eli gets another ring.


Knowing what you know now if you had a choice between Phil or Eli in the draft at the same time what percentage of folks would chose Phil & what percentage of folks would chose Eli. I'd say 50/50. but I think when it's all said and done Eli will own all Phils NYG records.

yoeddy
06-15-2012, 05:53 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F?** Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so.* Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch.* There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well.* But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley.* One could argue that Boley was as important to the team.* We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley:**** 13-3*** 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley:* 0-4**** 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts.* Draw your own conclusions.</P>

That's 21 games?

lawl
06-15-2012, 07:08 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F?** Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so.* Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch.* There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well.* But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley.* One could argue that Boley was as important to the team.* We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley:**** 13-3*** 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley:* 0-4**** 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts.* Draw your own conclusions.</P>

That's 21 games?

Lol. 13+3+4

Also, morehead, correlation doesn't mean causation. Ashame you haven't figured this out yet.

Die-Hard
06-15-2012, 07:23 PM
Its not enough to like our QB. Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise. No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</p>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</p>


If you say......... "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</p>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.</p>


Conclusion: You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say:......... "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</p>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.</p>


Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</p>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him. </p>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</p>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great. When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</p>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</p>

LOL

Well done! I hope you're insured...[;)]

Morehead State
06-15-2012, 08:07 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F? Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so. Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch. There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well. But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley. One could argue that Boley was as important to the team. We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley: 13-3 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley: 0-4 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts. Draw your own conclusions.</P>


That's 21 games?</P>


Are you using that New Math I hear so much about?</P>

BeatYale
06-15-2012, 08:27 PM
Yeah whenever I state any negative facts, like his TD-INT ratio never being 'elite' - people get so sensitive about it and try to come up with anything to try to deflect attention from that ugly stat line that he's had throughout his career. It's the main culprit when analysts critique his lower ranking amongst other star QB's.

I don't hate Eli. I think he's one of the best QB's in the league. I'm just simply pointing out the reason he doesn't get taken seriously by a lot of people. It's a valid complaint about his career IMO.

Someone countered with a "...but Brees had more ints than Eli that one year", but specifically leave out the fact that Brees also had more TD's than Eli that year as well. That's the kind of stuff you deal with from those mentioned fans that this topic is about.

From here on out he's got to improve that TD-INT differential. A +13 difference just isn't going to cut it because there are QB's putting up 40+ touchdowns while turning the ball over less than Eli.

buffyblue
06-15-2012, 08:34 PM
There is not even a debate of who os better Phil Simms or Eli Manning. Eli Manning is way better than Phil Simma ever was.

Heck, Phil Simms is not even the 2nd best QB in NY Giants history. Sure he is tje second most successful and had the second best career as a NY Giant but Kurt Warner was a better QB than Phil Simms.
Rankings of QBs to ga e played for NY Giants-

1- Eli Manning
2-Kurt Warner
3- Phil Simms

VegasGmen
06-15-2012, 08:36 PM
Must be that time of the month again for another Morehead post getting annoyed with the Eli lovers. This is getting old and tedious. Just let it go!

buffyblue
06-16-2012, 03:02 AM
*oh well*

yoeddy
06-16-2012, 07:55 AM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F?** Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so.* Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch.* There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well.* But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley.* One could argue that Boley was as important to the team.* We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley:**** 13-3*** 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley:* 0-4**** 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts.* Draw your own conclusions.</P>


That's 21 games?</P>


Are you using that New Math I hear so much about?</P>

Apparently so...

NYGinIN
06-16-2012, 08:09 AM
Sports fans in general get butthurt over stupid stuff anyway.

in conclusion

Captain Chaos
06-16-2012, 09:47 AM
Amusing!

nhpgiantsfan
06-16-2012, 10:26 AM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F?** Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so.* Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came
together and played great down the stretch.* There is no doubt
that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli
hadn't played so well.* But our championship was the product of
every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our
beloved team.</P>

You are right. We won the SB based on the efforts of the whole team including our defense coming alive.

However the only reason we were ever in playoff contention this year was because of one guy, Eli Manning. You can add Cruz and Nicks to that, but who has to get them the ball in order to be successful. Through the first 14 weeks our defense was bad, we had no running game and our offensive line was bad. It doesn't take a football expert to realize this...

nhpgiantsfan
06-16-2012, 10:34 AM
CODE OF ELI THOUGHT POLICE: DEFINITION

Eli will be the measuring stick for all future NYG QB's to come for decades. I can here it now wish he were as good as Eli was during his career, he needs x amount of wins, passing yards, SB victories etc. before he's in Eli's classs & on & on & on...

Best get used to it folks cause it's a coming!!!

Totally agree. Some fans will never appreciate Eli until he is gone. They will then realize how good he was when we go on a 10 year stretch trying to find his replacement. Ie: Kent Graham, Dave Brown, Danny Kannell.

nhpgiantsfan
06-16-2012, 10:41 AM
Morehead: I am the ultimate Phil butt boy and always will be.

This was taken from another thread. I have theory that MoreHead loves Phil so much, that when Eli outshines him in anyway, he gets a little bit crazier. We can only imagine if Eli gets another ring.


Knowing what you know now if you had a choice between Phil or Eli in the draft at the same time what percentage of folks would chose Phil & what percentage of folks would chose Eli. I'd say
50/50. but I think when it's all said and done Eli will own all Phils
NYG records.

Eli every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I don't need a few more years to see Eli. It's already not even close. He is already the best QB this team has every had and it will probably take decades before anyone ever takes that title from him!

GMENAGAIN
06-16-2012, 10:43 AM
This whole thing boils down to an inherentconflict betweenthe three different categories of posters on this MB:</P>


Category 1: Homers -- Blindly loyal to the team; will defend any team move or play no matter what the actual facts. Will refuse to concede that the FO or any Giant player or coach made a mistake or a bad play/decision.</P>


Category 2: Doomsayers -- Are critical of every little thing about their team and their players no matter how the team is performing. Six months after we win the SB, these posters start threads criticizing the team's clock management during the game, and flame the team for even the most minor personnel decisions.</P>


Category 3: Objective Fans -- These posters love their team, but are objective when evaluating the team's play, a player's performance or a front office move. They will generally give the team the benfit of the doubt given the team'srecent success, but will criticize when criticism is warranted.</P>


All of these mind-numbing Eli debates basically pit Categories 2 and 3 against Category 1.</P>

IamGiantsfan
06-16-2012, 10:46 AM
There is not even a debate of who os better Phil Simms or Eli Manning. Eli Manning is way better than Phil Simma ever was.

Heck, Phil Simms is not even the 2nd best QB in NY Giants history. Sure he is tje second most successful and had the second best career as a NY Giant but Kurt Warner was a better QB than Phil Simms.
Rankings of QBs to ga e played for NY Giants-

1- Eli Manning
2-Kurt Warner
3- Phil Simms
What about Fran Tarkenton or Y.A. Tittle

Mohann
06-16-2012, 04:47 PM
You really are turning into a joke.

There can't be a thread talking about something that Eli has done well in without you or someone else attempting to minimize or marginalize it. Like in the Eli Career Stats thread. It was an innocuous offseason thread until you and Gumby decided to turn it into something else.

If you think a thread on Eli is stupid or meaningless, then the best option is to JUST DON'T POST IN IT.
</p>


Nonsense. I objected to the "Eli carried this team on his back" comment, which is an insult to every other player on our team.</p>


As far as the stats thread, my point was that play on the field is what determines how great a QB is, not the amount of stats he accumulates over a long career. I think its Eli's play on the filed that makes him an outstanding QB.</p>


Your twisted interpretations here are exactly what I'm talking about. I question the use of stats to determine how good a player is, and you immediately interpret that as an attack on Eli. Early in Eli's career, when his stats weren't that good but he was super clutch at the end of games, I was making the exact same claim, all in support of Eli. its called consistency. You might want to try it.</p>


It was an attack on the use of stats. How could a reasonable person believe anything else.</p>


</p>

If Eli didn't carry the team this year then no QB has ever carried a
team. For most of the season the D played from poor to very poor, our
running game was almost non existent, and I'm pretty sure the Oline was
trying to kill him. We don't even get to the playoffs without Eli. And
when the D and running game finally came around and gave him some help
he went bonkers, with a monster post season.

jjj45
06-16-2012, 04:57 PM
This whole thing boils down to an inherentconflict betweenthe three different categories of posters on this MB:</p>


Category 1: Homers -- Blindly loyal to the team; will defend any team move or play no matter what the actual facts. Will refuse to concede that the FO or any Giant player or coach made a mistake or a bad play/decision.</p>


Category 2: Doomsayers -- Are critical of every little thing about their team and their players no matter how the team is performing. Six months after we win the SB, these posters start threads criticizing the team's clock management during the game, and flame the team for even the most minor personnel decisions.</p>


Category 3: Objective Fans -- These posters love their team, but are objective when evaluating the team's play, a player's performance or a front office move. They will generally give the team the benfit of the doubt given the team'srecent success, but will criticize when criticism is warranted.</p>


All of these mind-numbing Eli debates basically pit Categories 2 and 3 against Category 1.</p>There's no such thing as "objective fans".

Mohann
06-16-2012, 05:19 PM
This whole thing boils down to an inherentconflict betweenthe three different categories of posters on this MB:</p>


Category 1: Homers -- Blindly loyal to the team; will defend any team move or play no matter what the actual facts. Will refuse to concede that the FO or any Giant player or coach made a mistake or a bad play/decision.</p>


Category 2: Doomsayers -- Are critical of every little thing about their team and their players no matter how the team is performing. Six months after we win the SB, these posters start threads criticizing the team's clock management during the game, and flame the team for even the most minor personnel decisions.</p>


Category 3: Objective Fans -- These posters love their team, but are objective when evaluating the team's play, a player's performance or a front office move. They will generally give the team the benfit of the doubt given the team'srecent success, but will criticize when criticism is warranted.</p>


All of these mind-numbing Eli debates basically pit Categories 2 and 3 against Category 1.</p>There's no such thing as "objective fans".



And from my experience, the more someone tells you how objective they are, the less objective they really are.

Meanhothead
06-16-2012, 05:27 PM
I linked this thread onto a NY Giant Facebook fan page that has 17K+ NYG fans on it, that I admin.

Some people made and are still making comments about it.

Here is the link if you're interested.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/43413881956/

Harooni
06-17-2012, 05:42 PM
great thread , lol

the dispute about how eli should be ranked higher than JPP is a fine example of this thinking.

buffyblue
06-17-2012, 06:08 PM
great thread , lol

the dispute about how eli should be ranked higher than JPP is a fine example of this thinking.


I don’t think Eli Manning would even care if he JPP is rated higher than him or not.

ShakeNBake
06-17-2012, 08:11 PM
great thread , lol

the dispute about how eli should be ranked higher than JPP is a fine example of this thinking.


I don’t think Eli Manning would even care if he JPP is rated higher than him or not.

Eli wouldn't but many posters on these boards have pitchforks in hand because so.

Dorkasaurus
06-17-2012, 09:32 PM
This threadis too funny, those that havebusted on Eli now have now degrated themselves to mocking posts/posters that point out the facts.</P>

buffyblue
06-17-2012, 10:12 PM
This thread*is too funny, those that have*busted on Eli now have now degrated themselves to mocking posts/posters that point out the facts.*</P>

It goes so far as to anytime there is a post that compliments Eli Manning in any way that these folks need to jump all over it as if it is their mission in life. It is so annoying. These are the same folks that when Eli Manning is gone are going to be using him to compare new NY Giants QBs to in a decade from now.

It is at the point where every single mistake in his career is being thrown into everyone’s faces by these posters and then they get their panties in a bunch when mistakes and actual real concerns in other areas of the team are addressed.

FBomb
06-17-2012, 10:38 PM
This threadis too funny, those that havebusted on Eli now have now degrated themselves to mocking posts/posters that point out the facts.</P>


</P>


Like I said before....people here are in love with their own opinions and have difficulty letting it go. Eli is the man!!</P>


"Eli carried this team" is not a literal statement. It just simply means that while the rest of the team was not playing well Eli was playing great. If Eli played down to their level as well........this team never sniffs the playoffs and Coughlin loses his job. </P>


It was a team effort toward the end of the season and throughout the playoffs and SB. Diminishing Eli's role in keeping this team in the hunt during the regular season is just stubborn people unwilling to give up their opinions despite the truth.</P>

Drez
06-17-2012, 11:07 PM
This threadis too funny, those that havebusted on Eli now have now degrated themselves to mocking posts/posters that point out the facts.</p>


</p>


Like I said before....people here are in love with their own opinions and have difficulty letting it go. Eli is the man!!</p>


"Eli carried this team" is not a literal statement. It just simply means that while the rest of the team was not playing well Eli was playing great. If Eli played down to their level as well........this team never sniffs the playoffs and Coughlin loses his job. </p>


It was a team effort toward the end of the season and throughout the playoffs and SB. Diminishing Eli's role in keeping this team in the hunt during the regular season is just stubborn people unwilling to give up their opinions despite the truth.</p>
<font color="#FF0000">Perfect example of a blind homer telling us "realists" how to think!!!</font>

Die-Hard
06-17-2012, 11:27 PM
This threadis too funny, those that havebusted on Eli now have now degrated themselves to mocking posts/posters that point out the facts.</p>


</p>


Like I said before....people here are in love with their own opinions and have difficulty letting it go. Eli is the man!!</p>


"Eli carried this team" is not a literal statement. It just simply means that while the rest of the team was not playing well Eli was playing great. If Eli played down to their level as well........this team never sniffs the playoffs and Coughlin loses his job. </p>


It was a team effort toward the end of the season and throughout the playoffs and SB. Diminishing Eli's role in keeping this team in the hunt during the regular season is just stubborn people unwilling to give up their opinions despite the truth.</p>

There are homers, there are haters, and then there are those who are able to look at this team objectively, and aren't afraid of throwing out a bit of constructive criticizm. I consider myself to be very objective, and I don't let my emotional attachment to the team as a fan dictate how I see them.

I know this is going to be impossible for some of you guys to fathom, but being objective would make this board sooooooo much more tolerable to so many more people. It always seems to be one side or the other, good or bad, and no one is willing to meet in the middle or even allow themselves to listen to other opinions without blowing up and jumping to stupid conclusions. Knee jerk reactions and name calling has been the hallmark of the GMB for as long as I can remember, and its still happening, and its largely because not everyone is blindly and madly in love with Eli Manning.

Take that for what its worth. You guys know I'm right.

Morehead State
06-17-2012, 11:40 PM
This threadis too funny, those that havebusted on Eli now have now degrated themselves to mocking posts/posters that point out the facts.</P>


</P>


Like I said before....people here are in love with their own opinions and have difficulty letting it go. Eli is the man!!</P>


"Eli carried this team" is not a literal statement. It just simply means that while the rest of the team was not playing well Eli was playing great. If Eli played down to their level as well........this team never sniffs the playoffs and Coughlin loses his job. </P>


It was a team effort toward the end of the season and throughout the playoffs and SB. Diminishing Eli's role in keeping this team in the hunt during the regular season is just stubborn people unwilling to give up their opinions despite the truth.</P>




There are homers, there are haters, and then there are those who are able to look at this team objectively, and aren't afraid of throwing out a bit of constructive criticizm. I consider myself to be very objective, and I don't let my emotional attachment to the team as a fan dictate how I see them.

I know this is going to be impossible for some of you guys to fathom, but being objective would make this board sooooooo much more tolerable to so many more people. It always seems to be one side or the other, good or bad, and no one is willing to meet in the middle or even allow themselves to listen to other opinions without blowing up and jumping to stupid conclusions. Knee jerk reactions and name calling has been the hallmark of the GMB for as long as I can remember, and its still happening, and its largely because not everyone is blindly and madly in love with Eli Manning.

Take that for what its worth. You guys know I'm right.
</P>


And this is the point of my original post.</P>


Eli is a great QB.But that'sjust not enough for some people.</P>


You must worship at the altar of Eli. And I completely reject that notion.</P>


<FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></P>

Morehead State
06-17-2012, 11:41 PM
This threadis too funny, those that havebusted on Eli now have now degrated themselves to mocking posts/posters that point out the facts.</P>


</P>


Like I said before....people here are in love with their own opinions and have difficulty letting it go. Eli is the man!!</P>


"Eli carried this team" is not a literal statement. It just simply means that while the rest of the team was not playing well Eli was playing great. If Eli played down to their level as well........this team never sniffs the playoffs and Coughlin loses his job. </P>


It was a team effort toward the end of the season and throughout the playoffs and SB. Diminishing Eli's role in keeping this team in the hunt during the regular season is just stubborn people unwilling to give up their opinions despite the truth.</P>




There are homers, there are haters, and then there are those who are able to look at this team objectively, and aren't afraid of throwing out a bit of constructive criticizm. I consider myself to be very objective, and I don't let my emotional attachment to the team as a fan dictate how I see them.

I know this is going to be impossible for some of you guys to fathom, but being objective would make this board sooooooo much more tolerable to so many more people. It always seems to be one side or the other, good or bad, and no one is willing to meet in the middle or even allow themselves to listen to other opinions without blowing up and jumping to stupid conclusions. Knee jerk reactions and name calling has been the hallmark of the GMB for as long as I can remember, and its still happening, and its largely because not everyone is blindly and madly in love with Eli Manning.

Take that for what its worth. You guys know I'm right.
</P>


And this is the point of my original post.</P>


</P>

byron
06-17-2012, 11:57 PM
This threadis too funny, those that havebusted on Eli now have now degrated themselves to mocking posts/posters that point out the facts.</P>


</P>


Like I said before....people here are in love with their own opinions and have difficulty letting it go. Eli is the man!!</P>


"Eli carried this team" is not a literal statement. It just simply means that while the rest of the team was not playing well Eli was playing great. If Eli played down to their level as well........this team never sniffs the playoffs and Coughlin loses his job. </P>


It was a team effort toward the end of the season and throughout the playoffs and SB. Diminishing Eli's role in keeping this team in the hunt during the regular season is just stubborn people unwilling to give up their opinions despite the truth.</P>

There are homers, there are haters, and then there are those who are able to look at this team objectively, and aren't afraid of throwing out a bit of constructive criticizm. I consider myself to be very objective, and I don't let my emotional attachment to the team as a fan dictate how I see them.

I know this is going to be impossible for some of you guys to fathom, but being objective would make this board sooooooo much more tolerable to so many more people. It always seems to be one side or the other, good or bad, and no one is willing to meet in the middle or even allow themselves to listen to other opinions without blowing up and jumping to stupid conclusions. Knee jerk reactions and name calling has been the hallmark of the GMB for as long as I can remember, <FONT color=#0000ff>and its still happening</FONT>,<FONT color=#0000ff> and its largely because not everyone is blindly and madly in love with Eli Manning.
</FONT>
Take that for what its worth. You guys know I'm right.
right up to the blue ink you were doing good...;)

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 12:01 AM
It is not about worshiping or following blindly. It is about that every single time a compliment is paid to Eli Manning the same posters havr to rush out there and post some negative nonsense in the hopes of starting some conflict. Then those same posters get their panties in a bunch when you post a concrete fact that refutes their nonsense. They want you to go along with their veiwpoint that NY Giants are a defensive powerhouse and that Eli Manning benefits from that. No that is not what thia team is. This is not 1986 NY Giants. NY Giants are a pass oriented team that has struggled with the run and has had a heck of a lot of problems with the defense during the regular season.

It is not biased to state that Eli Manning carried NY Giants through some tough times in 2012 because that is exactly what he did. If he did not carry us them we would not have sniffed the playoffs last year.

EliTE
06-18-2012, 12:14 AM
the fact that you made this thread says it all about you

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 12:27 AM
the fact that you made this thread says it all about you</P>


I will fight the power on the Giants MB. Deal with it or get off.</P>


I will not have my team insulted with suggestions that one player carried the team.</P>


I will compliment other players on my team without being accused of hating Eli because I dare to suggest that other players actually contributed to the SB victory.</P>


If thats all about me then fine.</P>


Maybe you should make an actual insightful post before you start attacking others here.</P>


So go ahead..........type something interesting. We're all waiting.</P>

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 12:31 AM
It is not about worshiping or following blindly. It is about that every single time a compliment is paid to Eli Manning the same posters havr to rush out there and post some negative nonsense in the hopes of starting some conflict. Then those same posters get their panties in a bunch when you post a concrete fact that refutes their nonsense. They want you to go along with their veiwpoint that NY Giants are a defensive powerhouse and that Eli Manning benefits from that. No that is not what thia team is. This is not 1986 NY Giants. NY Giants are a pass oriented team that has struggled with the run and has had a heck of a lot of problems with the defense during the regular season. It is not biased to state that Eli Manning carried NY Giants through some tough times in 2012 because that is exactly what he did. If he did not carry us them we would not have sniffed the playoffs last year.</P>


This was your post.</P>


So many folks didn't think we could do it but Easy Eli carried the team on his back and took care of business. </P>


We are NY Giants fans and this is such a Great Time For us.
Relax and watch as The Greatest QB in franchise history of our organization brings us another Ring or Two. </P>


</P>


Not exactly as you just suggested here. Nothing about "some tough times" This suggests Eli carried the team to a SB win. A claim I strongly disagree with. You are just another in a long line of boring posters who have this overly simplistic view about how a football team works.</P>


And I will call it out.</P>


</P>

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 02:01 AM
Eli Manning did carry NY Giants.

Anyone that claims Eli Manning did not carry NY Giants last season ieither knows nothing about football, didn't watch football last season or is just plain lying.

It is crystal clear how he put thia team on his back and carried us last season.

If Eli Manning had played to the level of the defense last season we would have finished at the bottom of NFC East.

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 02:04 AM
*I edited this because I shouldn’t be calling people names.*

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 02:07 AM
*I edited this because I shouldn’t be calling people names.*

giantsfan420
06-18-2012, 03:34 AM
It is not about worshiping or following blindly. It is about that every single time a compliment is paid to Eli Manning the same posters havr to rush out there and post some negative nonsense in the hopes of starting some conflict. Then those same posters get their panties in a bunch when you post a concrete fact that refutes their nonsense. They want you to go along with their veiwpoint that NY Giants are a defensive powerhouse and that Eli Manning benefits from that. No that is not what thia team is. This is not 1986 NY Giants. NY Giants are a pass oriented team that has struggled with the run and has had a heck of a lot of problems with the defense during the regular season. It is not biased to state that Eli Manning carried NY Giants through some tough times in 2012 because that is exactly what he did. If he did not carry us them we would not have sniffed the playoffs last year.</P>


This was your post.</P>


So many folks didn't think we could do it but Easy Eli carried the team on his back and took care of business. </P>


We are NY Giants fans and this is such a Great Time For us.
Relax and watch as The Greatest QB in franchise history of our organization brings us another Ring or Two. </P>


*</P>


Not exactly as you just suggested here.* Nothing about "some tough times"* This suggests Eli carried the team to a SB win.* A claim I strongly disagree with.** You are just another in a long line of boring posters who have this overly simplistic view about how a football team works.</P>


And I will call it out.</P>


*</P>

only a disturbed, obsessed, confused, pretentious person could feel that what u attribute to his writing warrants being called out...

lmfao...the depths that are reached here is truly pathetic.

Harooni
06-18-2012, 04:31 AM
great thread , lol

the dispute about how eli should be ranked higher than JPP is a fine example of this thinking.


I don’t think Eli Manning would even care if he JPP is rated higher than him or not.

Eli wouldn't but many posters on these boards have pitchforks in hand because so.
exactly it's never been Eli. But his hardcore fans that have the complex.

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 06:06 AM
It is not about worshiping or following blindly. It is about that every single time a compliment is paid to Eli Manning the same posters havr to rush out there and post some negative nonsense in the hopes of starting some conflict. Then those same posters get their panties in a bunch when you post a concrete fact that refutes their nonsense. They want you to go along with their veiwpoint that NY Giants are a defensive powerhouse and that Eli Manning benefits from that. No that is not what thia team is. This is not 1986 NY Giants. NY Giants are a pass oriented team that has struggled with the run and has had a heck of a lot of problems with the defense during the regular season. It is not biased to state that Eli Manning carried NY Giants through some tough times in 2012 because that is exactly what he did. If he did not carry us them we would not have sniffed the playoffs last year.</P>


This was your post.</P>


So many folks didn't think we could do it but Easy Eli carried the team on his back and took care of business. </P>


We are NY Giants fans and this is such a Great Time For us.
Relax and watch as The Greatest QB in franchise history of our organization brings us another Ring or Two. </P>


*</P>


Not exactly as you just suggested here.* Nothing about "some tough times"* This suggests Eli carried the team to a SB win.* A claim I strongly disagree with.** You are just another in a long line of boring posters who have this overly simplistic view about how a football team works.</P>


And I will call it out.</P>


*</P>

You highlighled my original post form the other thread and you know what? There is nothing wrong with what I posted.

I started a thread that was titled “damn, we won SuperBowl” and I wrote about how awesome it was and how great it was that Eli Manning put us on his back and carried us. You know what? That is what he did. We can argue semantics and wording but there is no way that anyone can state that he didn’t carry us. He kept it together till all of our pieces got healthy and back in place. Then even when those pieces slid a little bit, he carried us through that too.

I basically started the thread because I am still really happy about winning SuperBowl and still really happy about how Eli Manning shined this past season and of course old morehead had to do what he usually does in any type of pro Eli Manning discussion and that is to interject how the poster making a complimentary claim about Eli Manning is wrong. Then when he began to get upset for whatever reason he decided to call me a mron or some other colorful methaphor. I should have just ignored him and not responded because all he wants is attention.

So, I am going to apologize to the other posters on this board for getting into the “insult” nonsense with morehead and it will not happen again, at least from my end.

In regard to Eli Manning. I am going to be happy and celebrate that we have the best QB in the history of our franchise and what better place for me to post how happy I am about that than on this NY Giants Message Board.

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 06:16 AM
great thread , lol

the dispute about how eli should be ranked higher than JPP is a fine example of this thinking.


I don’t think Eli Manning would even care if he JPP is rated higher than him or not.

Eli wouldn't but many posters on these boards have pitchforks in hand because so.
exactly it's never been Eli. But his hardcore fans that have the complex.

Hey not too long ago a lot of folks were roasting Eli Manning and knit picking every little thing he did. So perhaps some folks want to defend him because he is our favorite player.

I have always been an Eli Manning supporter and I was ecstatic when we got him.

I think that maybe he should have been ranked higher on the list than 31 but I have no qualms that JPP was ranked higher than him. Heck, I have no qualms that Eli Manning was ranked 31 although I feel he should have been ranked higher. It is a list voted on by the players and just making it should be honor enough.

One thing that I think folks are missing in regard to the list is that I think it is suppossed to spark the “who is better, Flash Gordon or Tarzan” type of debate and is not something that is to be taken that seriously. Heck, it seems that by comprising lists like this that NFL Network is successful in keeping our attention during the offseason.

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 06:22 AM
This is what I wrote in the thread I started-

"So many folks didn't think we could do it but Easy Eli carried the team on his back and took care of business.

We are NY Giants fans and this is such a Great Time For us.
Relax and watch as The Greatest QB in franchise history of our organization brings us another Ring or Two.”

I don’t think there is anything wrong with what I wrote.

chasjay
06-18-2012, 08:19 AM
great thread , lol

the dispute about how eli should be ranked higher than JPP is a fine example of this thinking.


I don’t think Eli Manning would even care if he JPP is rated higher than him or not.

Eli wouldn't but many posters on these boards have pitchforks in hand because so.


Where are the threads/posts with many posters maniacally protesting JPP's being selected higher by the voting players? Have I overlooked them or are you exaggerating?

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 08:44 AM
great thread , lol

the dispute about how eli should be ranked higher than JPP is a fine example of this thinking.


I don’t think Eli Manning would even care if he JPP is rated higher than him or not.

Eli wouldn't but many posters on these boards have pitchforks in hand because so.


Where are the threads/posts with many posters maniacally protesting JPP's being selected higher by the voting players? Have I overlooked them or are you exaggerating?


Don’t you see? These folks are already salivating and have their responses ready for a thread that they think is going to happen. Their main enjoyment in thrashing any type of pro Eli Manning thread has gotten so strong that now have pre planned diatribes to throw out there. They are so delusional that they are actually thinking threads are there that have not even been written.

gumby742
06-18-2012, 09:35 AM
and the amount of times the things MS describes actually happen? ZERO. those claims are baseless and come from a person who is at the least controversial with his claims. most feel hes flat wrong, but controversial is more apt. what really happens: a thread is made about eli's stats. a couple posters have a conversation. then a poster not unlike MS comes in, "this is such a stupid thread. theres no point to discuss this. only an idiot or homer would." which then starts off a completely diff conversation than the OP and its about whether or not posting about eli goes overboard or whether or not a person not unlike MS is actually right and has been right... the posters not unlike MS start with these sort of threads, or the homer diatribe to make themselves feel better about a complete stranger knowing more on a particular subject than him, in this case eli manning...</P>


A thread is made about Eli's stats. Someone disagrees by saying Ben/Rivers/Eli (QBs of this generation) are on pace to smash previous greats stats, but to put things in perspective, the QBs of the new generation are on pace to smash Ben/Rivers/Eli stats.</P>


Then a poster not unlike 420 gets pissed about how we're "cheapening" Eli's stats. Talk about taking a post in a different direction ...</P>

Mohann
06-18-2012, 10:56 AM
It is not about worshiping or following blindly. It is about that every single time a compliment is paid to Eli Manning the same posters havr to rush out there and post some negative nonsense in the hopes of starting some conflict. Then those same posters get their panties in a bunch when you post a concrete fact that refutes their nonsense. They want you to go along with their veiwpoint that NY Giants are a defensive powerhouse and that Eli Manning benefits from that. No that is not what thia team is. This is not 1986 NY Giants. NY Giants are a pass oriented team that has struggled with the run and has had a heck of a lot of problems with the defense during the regular season. It is not biased to state that Eli Manning carried NY Giants through some tough times in 2012 because that is exactly what he did. If he did not carry us them we would not have sniffed the playoffs last year.</p>


This was your post.</p>


So many folks didn't think we could do it but Easy Eli carried the team on his back and took care of business. </p>


We are NY Giants fans and this is such a Great Time For us.
Relax and watch as The Greatest QB in franchise history of our organization brings us another Ring or Two. </p>


</p>


Not exactly as you just suggested here. Nothing about "some tough times" This suggests Eli carried the team to a SB win. A claim I strongly disagree with. You are just another in a long line of boring posters who have this overly simplistic view about how a football team works.</p>


And I will call it out.</p>


</p>

So any time I say something good about Eli I also have to say something bad? Does this apply to other Giants? Or players from other teams?

bansaw
06-18-2012, 11:33 AM
Its not enough to like our QB. Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise. No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</p>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</p>


If you say......... "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</p>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.</p>


Conclusion: You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say:......... "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</p>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.</p>


Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</p>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him. </p>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</p>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great. When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</p>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</p>looks like I havent missed anything being away

whats this 5 years running this troll?

bigblue58
06-18-2012, 11:44 AM
Its not enough to like our QB.* Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise.* No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say.........** "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.*</P>


Conclusion:** You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say:.........* "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.****</P>


*Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him.** </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great.* When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>

This is the most of the wall, off the mark thing I've ever seen you post!
It was actually Eli being unfairly criticized and never getting credit for anything in some people's eyes that got them branded as Eli haters in the first place! Haters always seemed to have watched a different game than the rest of us because their criticism never seemed to fit the reality of the game.
UNFAIR CRITICISM made someone a hater, not the off the wall examples you list.
I can't remember anyone EVER calling someone an "eli hater" for complementing another Giants player.
You have twisted the entire Eli Hater thing around to make the Eli defenders sound like the unreasonable ones, when in reality, it was the unreasonable criticism of Eli by the haters, that the defenders were arguing against!

gumby742
06-18-2012, 12:30 PM
Its not enough to like our QB. Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise. No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say......... "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.</P>


Conclusion: You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say:......... "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.</P>


Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him. </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great. When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</P>


</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>


This is the most of the wall, off the mark thing I've ever seen you post! It was actually Eli being unfairly criticized and never getting credit for anything in some people's eyes that got them branded as Eli haters in the first place! Haters always seemed to have watched a different game than the rest of us because their criticism never seemed to fit the reality of the game. UNFAIR CRITICISM made someone a hater, not the off the wall examples you list. I can't remember anyone EVER calling someone an "eli hater" for complementing another Giants player. You have twisted the entire Eli Hater thing around to make the Eli defenders sound like the unreasonable ones, when in reality, it was the unreasonable criticism of Eli by the haters, that the defenders were arguing against!</P>


1) if you go back in the past, Eli defenders reacted defensively first. There weren't that many Eli hate threads and the ones that existed were blatant troll attempts.
2) Don't get Eli realists and blatant haters like CantBlameShockeyNow mixed up. Most people agreed prior to last season that Eli was at least a top 10 QB.
3) The problem is that your definition of "unfair criticism" is too broad.</P>


Case and point that Eli Stats thread. Who got butt hurt first? Eli defender. There's absolutely nothing anti-Eli about saying that stats are inflated in this day and age - for ALL QBs.</P>


There's nothing wrong with pointing out incorrect statistic usage, if it is indeed faulty.</P>

burier
06-18-2012, 12:34 PM
lol.......this board has changed you man..so bitter. [;)]</P>


ftr......At several moments during the season, when the running game was nonexistent and the defense like Swiss cheese....Eli and his recievers DID carry the team.....just sayin.</P>


</P>


Et tu, F?** Et tu?</P>


Say it aint so.* Alas....Oh the humanity!!!!</P>


</P>


Just speaking the gospel.</P>


</P>


The reason we won the SB is because the entire team came together and played great down the stretch.* There is no doubt that the 7-7 standing after week 14 would have been worse if Eli hadn't played so well.* But our championship was the product of every facet of our football team.</P>


To suggest otherwise is to insult every other player on our beloved team.</P>


And would we have been 7-7 if Eli hadn't put the team on his back?

</P>


Didn't I just say that?</P>


But we did lose 4 straight when we lost Boley.* One could argue that Boley was as important to the team.* We were 13-3 with Boley on the field last year.</P>


You just said the defense was lousy the first 14 games, so Im still in shock but what would losing Boley matter? The defense couldnt get off the field with or without him those 14 games....
</P>


Well here are the facts.</P>


With Boley:**** 13-3*** 20.3 PPG given up</P>


Without Boley:* 0-4**** 32.75 PPG given up</P>


These are facts.* Draw your own conclusions.</P>

You may want to check your facts. Boley missed exactly 2 games last season.

Drez
06-18-2012, 12:35 PM
and the amount of times the things MS describes actually happen? ZERO. those claims are baseless and come from a person who is at the least controversial with his claims. most feel hes flat wrong, but controversial is more apt. what really happens: a thread is made about eli's stats. a couple posters have a conversation. then a poster not unlike MS comes in, "this is such a stupid thread. theres no point to discuss this. only an idiot or homer would." which then starts off a completely diff conversation than the OP and its about whether or not posting about eli goes overboard or whether or not a person not unlike MS is actually right and has been right... the posters not unlike MS start with these sort of threads, or the homer diatribe to make themselves feel better about a complete stranger knowing more on a particular subject than him, in this case eli manning...</p>


A thread is made about Eli's stats. Someone disagrees by saying Ben/Rivers/Eli (QBs of this generation) are on pace to smash previous greats stats, but to put things in perspective, the QBs of the new generation are on pace to smash Ben/Rivers/Eli stats.</p>


Then a poster not unlike 420 gets pissed about how we're "cheapening" Eli's stats. Talk about taking a post in a different direction ...</p>But, here's the question you need to ask yourself: Why was there a need to bring that into the discussion in the first place?

And given your track record as a poster, forgive people for not giving you the benefit of the doubt as far as your intentions are concerned.

gumby742
06-18-2012, 12:38 PM
and the amount of times the things MS describes actually happen? ZERO. those claims are baseless and come from a person who is at the least controversial with his claims. most feel hes flat wrong, but controversial is more apt. what really happens: a thread is made about eli's stats. a couple posters have a conversation. then a poster not unlike MS comes in, "this is such a stupid thread. theres no point to discuss this. only an idiot or homer would." which then starts off a completely diff conversation than the OP and its about whether or not posting about eli goes overboard or whether or not a person not unlike MS is actually right and has been right... the posters not unlike MS start with these sort of threads, or the homer diatribe to make themselves feel better about a complete stranger knowing more on a particular subject than him, in this case eli manning...</P>


A thread is made about Eli's stats. Someone disagrees by saying Ben/Rivers/Eli (QBs of this generation) are on pace to smash previous greats stats, but to put things in perspective, the QBs of the new generation are on pace to smash Ben/Rivers/Eli stats.</P>


Then a poster not unlike 420 gets pissed about how we're "cheapening" Eli's stats. Talk about taking a post in a different direction ...</P>


But, here's the question you need to ask yourself: Why was there a need to bring that into the discussion in the first place?

And given your track record as a poster, forgive people for not giving you the benefit of the doubt as far as your intentions are concerned.
</P>


Like I said, I love playing devil's advocate and I'm one cynical SOB. Things are much more interesting when it's a discussion. Different viewpoints imo is a good thing.</P>


As for my track record, you'll see that I've done nothing else different than what I did in that thread. In fact, the what I've done mostly is to point out flaws in peoples logic when using statistics. Example: "Eli has better stats than Ben." "Me: You forgot to normalize it per attempt. If you do that Ben is much better than Eli." You take those kind of threads times 10, and voila, I'm a hater."</P>


If there was a history search (going back far enough) you'll realize that.</P>


Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm 100% guilt free for starting piss fests in threads. But my intent was to generate discussion. I find people agreeing with each x 10 other terribly boring.</P>

Kruunch
06-18-2012, 12:39 PM
Its not enough to like our QB. Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise. No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</p>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</p>


If you say......... "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</p>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.</p>


Conclusion: You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say:......... "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</p>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.</p>


Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</p>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him. </p>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</p>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great. When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</p>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.</p>


</p>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</p>

I know what you mean ... I can't stand when people get carried away with their own seriousness. http://boards.giants.com/emoticons/emotion-3.gif

burier
06-18-2012, 12:52 PM
Just scanned the thread

I just want to again state that Boley missed but 2 of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team as Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli.

I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.

As far who carried the team?

We're talking about football here. The quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself.

If someone says Eli carried the team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win.

The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben ,,hell even Phillip Rivers...etc
.

They all can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli....

It all speaks to the fact that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion.

Thats why its so frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap.

You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. Only a Eli hater would be compelled to start a thread like this if we're all being honest.

It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member.

If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.

gumby742
06-18-2012, 12:54 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 12:56 PM
Just scanned the thread

I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli.

I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.

As far who carried the team?

We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself.

If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win.

The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc
.

They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli....

It all speaks to the fact that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion.

Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap.

You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are.

It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member.

If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.

I completely agree with buriers post. Well stated.

yoeddy
06-18-2012, 12:57 PM
Eli Manning did carry NY Giants.

Anyone that claims Eli Manning did not carry NY Giants last season ieither knows nothing about football, didn't watch football last season or is just plain lying.

It is crystal clear how he put thia team on his back and carried us last season.

If Eli Manning had played to the level of the defense last season we would have finished at the bottom of NFC East.

Eli cannot f****ing throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time...!

:-)

burier
06-18-2012, 01:07 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* Need I go on?</P>

Please spare me. There's no reason to go on because you've lost the point.

I assume when you make a comment about Cruz or JPP that's your opinion.

Its not really the same as saying "Let me play devils advocate here. I see why Eli was left off the top 100 list"

Saying that you want to see Cruz put a another good year up isn't the same as arguing for the opposition of Eli for the hell of it.

So now that we've established what devil's advocate means I pose this question: If you play devil's advocate for fun why is Eli Manning so frequently the subject?

edit: Just to address your edit you're completely dishonest if your saying that you got labeled an Eli hater because you stated that Eli was responsible for his INTS in 2010.

Fact is you've called me an Eli homer, lover, president of the fan club etc and I never argued that Eli should be excused for the high INT number.

Its clear that not all of the INTs were his fault but alot of them were his fault and it goes down as an INT for Eli regardless.

How can I more clearly define "unfair"?

Wrap your mind around the fact that this thread actually exists...not on a Eagles message board but on a GIANTS message board the summer following Eli's second SB MVP.

It's completely unheard of in the history of sports.

It will always be something. He wins the SB it was a fluke.

He does it again we start arguing over who carried the team??????

Edit 2: In case anyone is curious. Gumby is seen as an Eli hater because he pops up and almost every Eli thread only to say something negative, downplays anything Eli ever did well and upplays anything he ever did poorly.....Oh and I'm sure all the snarky sigs didn't help either.

-The truth shall set you free.

/thread

NoHuddle10
06-18-2012, 01:28 PM
Let's just say this....... Because this really should end all of this nonsense.




Eli carried the Giants more so this year than Peyton did when he won it all with Indy, more than Brees did when he won it all, and more than Brady did during any 3 of their super bowl championship seasons, and way more so than Ben did during his 2.




I agree, no one person can ever carry a team to a super bowl championship all by themselves. However there is a good reason that only the "best" QB's seem to always be the ones gunning for Super Bowl Championships. There are around 44 different starting positions in football. OBVIOUSLY one player doesnt make or break anything. Yet the last 9 super bowl winning QB's are as follows....




Eli
Rodgers
Brees
Ben
Eli
Peyton
Ben
Brady
Brady




Anyone care to tell me who the best QB's in the NFL have been over that stretch? I have a feeling every single one of you would say the top 6 are as follows ( in no particular order)...




Eli, Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, and Ben.



Do you think this is just random that the 6 best won the last 9 super bowls? I mean lets be real here.....

byron
06-18-2012, 01:29 PM
this is nothing more than an argument between the extremist of this board.... the left and the right alike....basically the postersattack each others position andsometimes personallytill they become board with it.....Its never over and done with cause the two sidesdislike each other with pasion.....And Elibecomesjust pawn in their littlewar.....

jakegibbs
06-18-2012, 01:33 PM
Just scanned the thread

I just want to again state that Boley missed but 2 of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team as Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli.

I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.

As far who carried the team?

We're talking about football here. The quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself.

If someone says Eli carried the team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win.

The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben ,,hell even Phillip Rivers...etc
.

They all can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli....

It all speaks to the fact that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion.

Thats why its so frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap.

You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. Only a Eli hater would be compelled to start a thread like this if we're all being honest.

It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member.

If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.
+1 Great Post & you can tell the to put this in their pipe & smoke it burrier.

2009/2011: 2× Pro Bowl Selection[79]
2011: NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15)
2011: Tied NFL Record for longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards)
Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)[112]
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1219 yards, 2011)
Super Bowl XLVI: Most consecutive completions to begin a Super Bowl (9)
Active leader for most consecutive starts by a National Football League quarterback (119, 3rd all-time)

NFL records

Most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011)
Tied NFL Records longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011)
Most road playoff wins by a quarterback (5)
Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)
Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

gumby742
06-18-2012, 01:38 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. Need I go on?</P>


Please spare me. There's no reason to go on because you've lost the point. I assume when you make a comment about Cruz or JPP thats your opinion. Its not really the same as saying "Let me play devils advocate here. I see why Eli was left off the top 100 list" Saying that you want to see Cruz put a another good year up isn't the same as arguing for the opposition for the hell of it. So now that we've established what devil's advocate means I pose this question: If you play devil's advocate for fun why is Eli Manning so frequently the subject? edit: Just to address your edit you're completely dishonest if your saying that got labeled an Eli hater because you stated that Eli was responsible for his INTS in 2010. Fact is you've called me an Eli homer, love, president of the fan club etc and I never argued that Eli should be excused for the high INT number. its clear that not all of the INTs were his fault but alot of them were his fault and it goes down as an INT for Eli regardless. How can I more clearly define "unfair". Wrap your mind around the fact that this thread exists...not on a Eagles message board but on a GIANTS message board the summer following Eli's second SB MVP. It completely unheard of in the history of sports. It will always be something. He wins the SB it was a fluke. He does it again we start arguing over who carried the team?????? Edit 2: In case anyone is curious. Gumby is seen as an Eli hater because he pops up and almost every Eli thread only to say something negative, downplays anything Eli ever did well and upplays anything he ever did poorly.....Oh and I'm sure all the snarky sigs didn't help either. -The truth shall set you free.</P>


Ok. There is much population to choose from. But, let's talk about my statement that you used then. When one <U>very key word</U> you left out that i KNOW i said.. "I <U>can</U> see why Eli was left off the top 100 list". You also conveniently left out that <U>i disagreed with the list</U>. That is devil's advocate. All I'm saying is I understand where people are coming from. Same thing as saying, "I hate this soft drink but I can see how people may like it."</P>


I post devil's advocate for Eli so frequently because 1) There are more Eli threads and posts 10 fold than any other topic. 2) Eli fans like yourself make it so very fun to do so.</P>


To call me an Eli hater is <U>inaccurate</U>. To call me a Eli Fan Club hater is <U>much more so</U>. I honestly couldn't care less how Eli stacks up. I just want to freaking win. But some of the stuff members come up with is just too good to pass up.</P>


What's wrong with this thread? No one is denying that Eli had a great season last year, and pretty much everyone agrees he has made himself into a great QB. So what's the problem? Following last season, Eli pretty much put all of his doubters to rest. </P>


Give me a break. Eli didn't carry the team. Eli and his WRs did. That statement in itself deserves some soft of intervention. Talk about who's better Ben vs Eli all you want, and I'm going to stay silent, UNTIL someone says something stupid like, "Eli has better career yards and TDs then Ben". Only then will I chime in.</P>

Mohann
06-18-2012, 01:38 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <u>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</u> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <u>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</u>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</p>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</p>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <u>completely </u>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <u>both </u>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</p>

The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.

jakegibbs
06-18-2012, 01:47 PM
Does Ben resume look like this?

2009/2011: 2× Pro Bowl Selection[79]
2011: NFL Record most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15)
2011: Tied NFL Record for longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards)
Holds NFL Record for most road playoff wins (5)[112]
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1219 yards, 2011)
Super Bowl XLVI: Most consecutive completions to begin a Super Bowl (9)
Active leader for most consecutive starts by a National Football League quarterback (119, 3rd all-time)


NFL records

Most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011)
Tied NFL Record longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011)
Most road playoff wins by a quarterback (5)
Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)
Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

gumby742
06-18-2012, 01:52 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>

gumby742
06-18-2012, 01:53 PM
dp</P>

yoeddy
06-18-2012, 02:15 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <u>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</u> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <u>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</u>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</p>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move.* Need I go on?</p>


Edit:* Your definition of "unfair" is too broad.* And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans.* All I want* to do is win.*Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010.* Fact.* *But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <u>completely </u>on his receivers, I gotta say something.* The blame is on <u>both </u>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well.* Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born.* That is just one example.</p>*

The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.


At the time, the haters were saying that Eli wasn't throwing "catchable" balls...

Mohann
06-18-2012, 02:17 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <u>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</u> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <u>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</u>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</p>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</p>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <u>completely </u>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <u>both </u>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</p>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</p>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <u>both</u>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</p> They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.

gumby742
06-18-2012, 02:21 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</P>

burier
06-18-2012, 02:23 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* Need I go on?</P>


Please spare me. There's no reason to go on because you've lost the point. I assume when you make a comment about Cruz or JPP thats your opinion. Its not really the same as saying "Let me play devils advocate here. I see why Eli was left off the top 100 list" Saying that you want to see Cruz put a another good year up isn't the same as arguing for the opposition for the hell of it. So now that we've established what devil's advocate means I pose this question: If you play devil's advocate for fun why is Eli Manning so frequently the subject? edit: Just to address your edit you're completely dishonest if your saying that got labeled an Eli hater because you stated that Eli was responsible for his INTS in 2010. Fact is you've called me an Eli homer, love, president of the fan club etc and I never argued that Eli should be excused for the high INT number. its clear that not all of the INTs were his fault but alot of them were his fault and it goes down as an INT for Eli regardless. How can I more clearly define "unfair". Wrap your mind around the fact that this thread exists...not on a Eagles message board but on a GIANTS message board the summer following Eli's second SB MVP. It completely unheard of in the history of sports. It will always be something. He wins the SB it was a fluke. He does it again we start arguing over who carried the team?????? Edit 2: In case anyone is curious. Gumby is seen as an Eli hater because he pops up and almost every Eli thread only to say something negative, downplays anything Eli ever did well and upplays anything he ever did poorly.....Oh and I'm sure all the snarky sigs didn't help either. -The truth shall set you free.</P>


Ok.* There is much population to choose from.* But, let's talk about my statement that you used then.* When one <U>very key word</U> you left out that i KNOW i said..* "I* <U>can</U> see why Eli was left off the top 100 list".* You also conveniently left out that <U>i disagreed with the list</U>.* That is devil's advocate.* All I'm saying is I understand where people are coming from.* Same thing as saying, "I hate this soft drink but I can see how people may like it."</P>


I post devil's advocate for Eli so frequently because 1)* There are more Eli threads and posts 10 fold than any other topic.* 2)* Eli fans like yourself make it so very fun to do so.</P>


To call me an Eli hater is <U>inaccurate</U>.* To call me a Eli Fan Club hater is <U>much more so</U>.* I honestly couldn't care less how Eli stacks up.* I just want to freaking win.* But some of the stuff members come up with is just too good to pass up.</P>


What's wrong with this thread?* No one is denying that Eli had a great season last year, and pretty much everyone agrees he has made himself into a great QB.* So what's the problem?* Following last season, Eli pretty much put all of his doubters to rest.* </P>


Give me a break.* Eli didn't carry the team.* Eli and his WRs did.* That statement in itself deserves some soft of intervention.* Talk about who's better Ben vs Eli all you want, and I'm going to stay silent, UNTIL someone says something stupid like, "Eli has better career yards and TDs then Ben".* Only then will I chime in.</P>


As far as the top 100 list. I elevated it as an example of YOU PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. the omission of the word "can" or the explicit statement that you disagreed with the list is of no consequence.

My point was that your devil's advocate position is usually about Eli and usually ANTI-Eli. Weather you believe it or not is irrelevant to my point.

That said. There's nothing wrong with the thread. I'm merely pointing out that its clearly the effort of an Eli hater.

So give me a break....how does a QB carry his team? How??

As far as I can tell there's only 1 of 2 ways you can answer that question.

1) By throwing and catching the ball himself.

2) I don't believe any one player can carry his team.

And we've come full circle.

If you're saying Eli AND THE RECIEVERS carried the team the same should be said whenever anyone says that any other QB carried his team.

You're saying soft intervention is needed when it comes to Eli because you're an Eli hater. Plain and simple.

gumby742
06-18-2012, 02:23 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
At the time, the haters were saying that Eli wasn't throwing "catchable" balls...</P>


Actually Eli defenders were saying that "X number of those ints aren't on Eli, thus Eli only throw 24-X ints." This implies that the WRs are soley at fault. If you look at those passes, it's a ridiculous statement. That's when the "haters" jumped in and said, "They were terrible passes too."</P>


So yeah. Both were to blame.</P>

Drez
06-18-2012, 02:24 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <u>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</u> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <u>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</u>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</p>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</p>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <u>completely </u>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <u>both </u>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</p>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</p>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <u>both</u>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</p>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</p>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</p>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</p>
So, every single pass that was tipped up was just an inaccurate pass by Eli where he had all day to throw and otherwise wasn't affected by the coverage on the play?

You're freaking joking? Right?

yoeddy
06-18-2012, 02:31 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move.* Need I go on?</P>


Edit:* Your definition of "unfair" is too broad.* And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans.* All I want* to do is win.*Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010.* Fact.* *But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something.* The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well.* Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born.* That is just one example.</P>


*

The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
At the time, the haters were saying that Eli wasn't throwing "catchable" balls...</P>


Actually Eli defenders were saying that "X number of those ints aren't on Eli, thus Eli only throw 24-X ints."* This implies that the WRs are soley at fault.* If you look at those passes, it's a ridiculous statement.* That's when the "haters" jumped in and said, "They were terrible passes too."</P>


So yeah.* Both were to blame.</P>

I say that every pass that the receive got both hands on that ended up deflecting and being INT'd was the WR's fault. All of the others are debatable depending on the route, the coverage, the pressure, etc.

Joe Morrison
06-18-2012, 02:33 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</P>



So, every single pass that was tipped up was just an inaccurate pass by Eli where he had all day to throw and otherwise wasn't affected by the coverage on the play?

You're freaking joking? Right?

</P>


Caught the top 100 for 2012 and Eli was like 31, interviews with other players around the league and they said Eli should have been # 1, said he was asked are you Elite, he said yes, then backed it up with a great year and a 2nd Super Bowl.</P>


Without Eli last year we would have been watching the Cowgirls in the playoffs.</P>

gumby742
06-18-2012, 02:33 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. Need I go on?</P>


Please spare me. There's no reason to go on because you've lost the point. I assume when you make a comment about Cruz or JPP thats your opinion. Its not really the same as saying "Let me play devils advocate here. I see why Eli was left off the top 100 list" Saying that you want to see Cruz put a another good year up isn't the same as arguing for the opposition for the hell of it. So now that we've established what devil's advocate means I pose this question: If you play devil's advocate for fun why is Eli Manning so frequently the subject? edit: Just to address your edit you're completely dishonest if your saying that got labeled an Eli hater because you stated that Eli was responsible for his INTS in 2010. Fact is you've called me an Eli homer, love, president of the fan club etc and I never argued that Eli should be excused for the high INT number. its clear that not all of the INTs were his fault but alot of them were his fault and it goes down as an INT for Eli regardless. How can I more clearly define "unfair". Wrap your mind around the fact that this thread exists...not on a Eagles message board but on a GIANTS message board the summer following Eli's second SB MVP. It completely unheard of in the history of sports. It will always be something. He wins the SB it was a fluke. He does it again we start arguing over who carried the team?????? Edit 2: In case anyone is curious. Gumby is seen as an Eli hater because he pops up and almost every Eli thread only to say something negative, downplays anything Eli ever did well and upplays anything he ever did poorly.....Oh and I'm sure all the snarky sigs didn't help either. -The truth shall set you free.</P>


Ok. There is much population to choose from. But, let's talk about my statement that you used then. When one <U>very key word</U> you left out that i KNOW i said.. "I <U>can</U> see why Eli was left off the top 100 list". You also conveniently left out that <U>i disagreed with the list</U>. That is devil's advocate. All I'm saying is I understand where people are coming from. Same thing as saying, "I hate this soft drink but I can see how people may like it."</P>


I post devil's advocate for Eli so frequently because 1) There are more Eli threads and posts 10 fold than any other topic. 2) Eli fans like yourself make it so very fun to do so.</P>


To call me an Eli hater is <U>inaccurate</U>. To call me a Eli Fan Club hater is <U>much more so</U>. I honestly couldn't care less how Eli stacks up. I just want to freaking win. But some of the stuff members come up with is just too good to pass up.</P>


What's wrong with this thread? No one is denying that Eli had a great season last year, and pretty much everyone agrees he has made himself into a great QB. So what's the problem? Following last season, Eli pretty much put all of his doubters to rest. </P>


Give me a break. Eli didn't carry the team. Eli and his WRs did. That statement in itself deserves some soft of intervention. Talk about who's better Ben vs Eli all you want, and I'm going to stay silent, UNTIL someone says something stupid like, "Eli has better career yards and TDs then Ben". Only then will I chime in.</P>


As far as the top 100 list. I elevated it as an example of YOU PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. the omission of the word "can" or the explicit statement that you disagreed with the list is of no consequence. My point was that your devil's advocate position is usually about Eli and usually ANTI-Eli. Weather you believe it or not is irrelevant to my point. That said. There's nothing wrong with the thread. I'm merely pointing out that its clearly the effort of an Eli hater. So give me a break....how does a QB carry his team? How?? As far as I can tell there's only 1 of 2 ways you can answer that question. 1) By throwing and catching the ball himself. 2) I don't believe any one player can carry his team. And we've come full circle. If you're saying Eli AND THE RECIEVERS carried the team <U>the same should be said whenever anyone says that any other QB carried his team</U>. You're saying soft intervention is needed when it comes to Eli because you're an Eli hater. Plain and simple.</P>


Oh ok. I over looked it. Can't really read or write carefully since I"m at work. Haha. </P>


If you want to label me as an Eli hater, go right ahead. But, the reality of it is is that if Eli defenders weren't so ridiculous, I wouldn't feel the urge to respond as much. It's very similar to the Tebow situation in that way. If some of his fans weren't so wacky, there wouldn't be as much to talk about.</P>


No double standard here. I never said that any QB carried the team except Marino. But that's only because I'm a blind homer.</P>

gumby742
06-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
At the time, the haters were saying that Eli wasn't throwing "catchable" balls...</P>


Actually Eli defenders were saying that "X number of those ints aren't on Eli, thus Eli only throw 24-X ints." This implies that the WRs are soley at fault. If you look at those passes, it's a ridiculous statement. That's when the "haters" jumped in and said, "They were terrible passes too."</P>


So yeah. Both were to blame.</P>


I say that every pass that the receive got both hands on that ended up deflecting and being INT'd was the WR's fault. All of the others are debatable depending on the route, the coverage, the pressure, etc.</P>


To each his/her own, but it doesn't take away from the fact that some of those passes were absolute ****e.</P>

Mohann
06-18-2012, 02:36 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <u>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</u> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <u>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</u>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</p>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</p>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <u>completely </u>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <u>both </u>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</p>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</p>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <u>both</u>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</p>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</p>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</p>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</p>

ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

gumby742
06-18-2012, 02:42 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</P>



So, every single pass that was tipped up was just an inaccurate pass by Eli where he had all day to throw and otherwise wasn't affected by the coverage on the play?

You're freaking joking? Right?

</P>


Caught the top 100 for 2012 and Eli was like 31, interviews with other players around the league and they said Eli should have been # 1, said he was asked are you Elite, he said yes, then backed it up with a great year and a 2nd Super Bowl.</P>


Without Eli last year we would have been watching the Cowgirls in the playoffs.</P>


</P>


And without the defense actually not playing like crap and playing average, we also would have been watching the Cowboys. See how it all anti-Eli stuff works? No one came out and said "the defense carried us to the SB/playoffs" on their own. But, it's the Eli defenders that make such comments. <U>Everything came together during the post season. </U>Give credit to the rest of the team also.</P>


</P>

gumby742
06-18-2012, 02:45 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.
</P>


Some loser actually put together a video of all of Eli's INTs in 2010 on youtube. I suggest you find it and watch it. Most of those tipped INTs - those passes were not good. If you think Brady's pass is worse than Eli's, then take off the blinders.</P>

yoeddy
06-18-2012, 02:48 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move.* Need I go on?</P>


Edit:* Your definition of "unfair" is too broad.* And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans.* All I want* to do is win.*Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010.* Fact.* *But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something.* The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well.* Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born.* That is just one example.</P>


*

The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also.* High and behind.* When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable.* The WRs should also have made the catch.* Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>.* If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


* They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB?* It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker.* Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either.* Look at the replays.* there were really bad ones in there.* And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about.* Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs.*** C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.
</P>


Some loser actually put together a video of all of Eli's INTs in 2010 on youtube.* I suggest you find it and watch it.* Most of those tipped INTs - those passes were not good.** If you think Brady's pass is worse than Eli's, then take off the blinders.</P>

Without trying to open the whole can of worms again, how many of those were bad throws vs. sloppy routes?

yoeddy
06-18-2012, 02:49 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move.* Need I go on?</P>


Edit:* Your definition of "unfair" is too broad.* And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans.* All I want* to do is win.*Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010.* Fact.* *But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something.* The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well.* Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born.* That is just one example.</P>


*

The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
At the time, the haters were saying that Eli wasn't throwing "catchable" balls...</P>


Actually Eli defenders were saying that "X number of those ints aren't on Eli, thus Eli only throw 24-X ints."* This implies that the WRs are soley at fault.* If you look at those passes, it's a ridiculous statement.* That's when the "haters" jumped in and said, "They were terrible passes too."</P>


So yeah.* Both were to blame.</P>


I say that every pass that the receive got both hands on that ended up deflecting and being INT'd was the WR's fault. All of the others are debatable depending on the route, the coverage, the pressure, etc.</P>


To each his/her own, but it doesn't take away from the fact that some of those passes were absolute ****e.</P>

"some"...sure. Not sure how many, tho.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 02:50 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <u>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</u> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <u>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</u>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</p>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</p>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <u>completely </u>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <u>both </u>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</p>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</p>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <u>both</u>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</p>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</p>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</p>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</p>



So, every single pass that was tipped up was just an inaccurate pass by Eli where he had all day to throw and otherwise wasn't affected by the coverage on the play?

You're freaking joking? Right?

</p>


Caught the top 100 for 2012 and Eli was like 31, interviews with other players around the league and they said Eli should have been # 1, said he was asked are you Elite, he said yes, then backed it up with a great year and a 2nd Super Bowl.</p>


Without Eli last year we would have been watching the Cowgirls in the playoffs.</p>


</p>


And without the defense actually not playing like crap and playing average, we also would have been watching the Cowboys. See how it all anti-Eli stuff works? No one came out and said "the defense carried us to the SB/playoffs" on their own. But, it's the Eli defenders that make such comments. <u>Everything came together during the post season. </u>Give credit to the rest of the team also.</p>


</p>

And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.

gumby742
06-18-2012, 03:22 PM
</P>


"some"...sure. Not sure how many, tho.</P>


</P>


Heh. Rour wrong route comment. You can make that excuse for every QB in the NFL You have to admit though, it sounds pretty lame. Imagine going to the eagles boards and seeing someone saying how Vick is not a good passer. Then a bunch of eagles fans say that the WR ran the wrong routes over and over again. I'd imagine you'd roll your eyes no? When Romo threw those 4 INTs in the 4th quarter, essentially losing the game, how did we know they weren't a product of wrong routes?</P>


I'm pretty sure a good portion of them required some sort of adjustment on the WRs part. like 3/4.</P>

gumby742
06-18-2012, 03:26 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</P>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</P>

JMFP2
06-18-2012, 03:30 PM
There were certain points of the season that it seemed the only 2 players that were playing up to their potential were Eli Manning and JPP.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 03:36 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 03:37 PM
There were certain points of the season that it seemed the only 2 players that were playing up to their potential were Eli Manning and JPP.</P>


Ever hear of a guy named Victor Cruz?</P>

Roosevelt
06-18-2012, 03:42 PM
There were certain points of the season that it seemed the only 2 players that were playing up to their potential were Eli Manning and JPP.


You can't be serious. There are many players that had a solid season last year. Cruz, Nicks, Manningham, Boothe, Ballard, Pascoe, Tynes, Weatherford, Boley, etc.

Drez
06-18-2012, 03:46 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <u>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</u> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <u>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</u>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</p>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</p>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <u>completely </u>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <u>both </u>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</p>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</p>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <u>both</u>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</p>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</p>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</p>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</p>

ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

Actually, had Welker read the coverage properly on that play he would have known that the ball wasn't going to go up the seam, but over his outside shoulder. Brady may have put a little too much on it, but had Wes reacted properly to the coverage he would have been able to adjust sooner to put himself in a better spot to make the catch.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 03:47 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</p>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</p>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</p>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</p>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</p>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</p>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</p>


And Eli <u>is</u> their religion.</p>

I'm Ok with this. If you say no one player carries a team and apply it consistently fine, No one player has ever carried a team. It a common phrase though, and applying it to Eli last year is just as appropriate as when it was applied to any other QB.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 03:52 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

Actually, had Welker read the coverage properly on that play he would have known that the ball wasn't going to go up the seam, but over his outside shoulder. Brady may have put a little too much on it, but had Wes reacted properly to the coverage he would have been able to adjust sooner to put himself in a better spot to make the catch.
</P>


It was a good pass. he threw it to the open spot in the zone. Further right and the safety could make a play on it. Further left and the corner was there.</P>


Bottom line is that he threw it in a spot where Welker got both hands on it and wasn't batter or challenged by a defender. Even as Collingsworth said.."Welker catches that ball 100 out of 100 times".</P>

Drez
06-18-2012, 03:52 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</p>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</p>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</p>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</p>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</p>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</p>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</p>


And Eli <u>is</u> their religion.</p>
Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 03:55 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>




I'm Ok with this. If you say no one player carries a team and apply it consistently fine, No one player has ever carried a team. It a common phrase though, and applying it to Eli last year is just as appropriate as when it was applied to any other QB.
</P>


I make fun of people. Its what I do. I make fun of myself more than anyone else. I do because after 53 years of life I've come to believe that life is too short to take yourslef or anyone else too seriously.</P>


Some people here do have a bit of a thin skin.</P>


Even my friend Bansaw went after me. (and being Canadian is no excuse for bad manners)</P>

Mohann
06-18-2012, 03:55 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</p>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</p>

The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 03:57 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</P>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</P>


I now see that you love me.</P>

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 03:58 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</P>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</P>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</P>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</P>

rick5292
06-18-2012, 04:03 PM
Agreed. Mr. Moorehead, sometimes I think you let your wonderful post count get to your head. And by-the-way, congrats on starting yet another pointless thread. This argument with Eli has been going on for years....WHO CARES. You win as a team and we all know that. Eli only plays one position, so I can see where BOTH parties are coming from.

As for gumby, what do y'all expect. He regurgitates the same thing over and over again.....

Harooni
06-18-2012, 04:04 PM
hate to break it to the guys bashing our D, when the team was on Eli's back we were 7-7 and the last 6 games the D averaged 14 points per game given up. and in those last 6 games the run avg was 114 yards per game.

FBomb
06-18-2012, 04:04 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</P>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</P>


I now see that you love me.</P>


</P>


To be fair....I have always loved you, but you knew that....but I was admittedly caught off gaurd by your assertion that people actually believed Eli "carried" us to a SB win rather than put this team on his back during the regular season (which he did) when the team needed him to. No one actually believes he won the SB single handedly. Thought this was an over reaction on your part.</P>


</P>

jakegibbs
06-18-2012, 04:04 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move.* Need I go on?</P>


Edit:* Your definition of "unfair" is too broad.* And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans.* All I want* to do is win.*Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010.* Fact.* *But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something.* The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well.* Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born.* That is just one example.</P>


*

The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also.* High and behind.* When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable.* The WRs should also have made the catch.* Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>.* If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


* They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB?* It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker.* Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either.* Look at the replays.* there were really bad ones in there.* And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about.* Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs.*** C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

Actually, had Welker read the coverage properly on that play he would have known that the ball wasn't going to go up the seam, but over his outside shoulder. Brady may have put a little too much on it, but had Wes reacted properly to the coverage he would have been able to adjust sooner to put himself in a better spot to make the catch.
</P>


It was a good pass.* he threw it to the open spot in the zone.* Further right and the safety could make a play on it.* Further left and the corner was there.</P>


Bottom line is that he threw it in a spot where Welker got both hands on it and wasn't batter or challenged by a defender.* Even as Collingsworth said.."Welker catches that ball 100 out of 100 times".</P>

That's what seperates good from GREAT. Tom had the chance to drop the dime on Welker & GAME but didn't. ELI had the chance to drop the dime on Manningham & he did GAME. He had the team on his back so to speak & made the GREAT THROW. That's the throw the QB's dream about making.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 04:09 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</P>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</P>


I now see that you love me.</P>


</P>


To be fair....I have always loved you, but you knew that....but I was admittedly caught off gaurd by your assertion that people actually believed Eli "carried" us to a SB win rather than put this team on his back during the regular season (which he did) when the team needed him to. No one actually believes he won the SB single handedly. Thought this was an over reaction on your part.</P>


</P>


</P>


The only overreaction was a resonse to me. All I said in that thread was one sentence.</P>


It was...... No one carried anyone on their back. Eli was great but it was a pure team effort.</P>


Does that sound like an overreaction to you F?....... Me neither.</P>


It was then that good Ol' Morehead was attacked by the Cultists. I am a victim. All I try to do is help and love people!</P>


</P>

rick5292
06-18-2012, 04:09 PM
hate to break it to the guys bashing our D, when the team was on Eli's back we were 7-7 and the last 6 games the D averaged 14 points per game given up. and in those last 6 games the run avg was 114 yards per game.


So wait a sec... you say that a team wins together yet SOMEHOW, ELI IS 7-7 when the game is on HIS back??? Seems like a silly contradiction. I think you should just stick to saying that we win AND lose a team, period.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 04:10 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

Actually, had Welker read the coverage properly on that play he would have known that the ball wasn't going to go up the seam, but over his outside shoulder. Brady may have put a little too much on it, but had Wes reacted properly to the coverage he would have been able to adjust sooner to put himself in a better spot to make the catch.
</P>


It was a good pass. he threw it to the open spot in the zone. Further right and the safety could make a play on it. Further left and the corner was there.</P>


Bottom line is that he threw it in a spot where Welker got both hands on it and wasn't batter or challenged by a defender. Even as Collingsworth said.."Welker catches that ball 100 out of 100 times".</P>


That's what seperates good from GREAT. Tom had the chance to drop the dime on Welker &amp; GAME but didn't. ELI had the chance to drop the dime on Manningham &amp; he did GAME. He had the team on his back so to speak &amp; made the GREAT THROW. That's the throw the QB's dream about making.</P>


Is it your view that Tom Brady isn't great? Now this is really getting out of hand.</P>

giantsfan420
06-18-2012, 04:10 PM
oh the irony. MS starts a thread about eli thought police, all the while trying to police the thoughts that people have on eli.

we got it MS,no one is to think of eli differently than you...

lmfao, anyone else find it completely hilarious that its MS defining "thought police"?

jakegibbs
06-18-2012, 04:11 PM
hate to break it to the guys bashing our D, when the team was on Eli's back we were 7-7 and the last 6 games the D averaged 14 points per game given up.


If Eli hadn't had carried the team to 7-7 they wouldn't have even been in position to win their way into the playoffs.

Here's some more little tid bits.

NFL records

Most 4th quarter touchdown passes in a season (15 in 2011)
Tied NFL Record longest pass completion and touchdown (99 yards in 2011)
Most road playoff wins by a quarterback (5)
Tied NFL Record most game-winning drives in a season (8 in 2011)
Most road wins in a single regular season and postseason by a starting quarterback (10)
Most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

Giants franchise records

Most passing attempts (season): 589 (2011)
Most completions (season): 359 (2011)
Most passing yards (season): 4,933 (2011)
Longest completed pass: 99 yards (2011)
Most 4th quarter touchdown passes, season: 15 (NFL record)(2011)
Most consecutive starts by a quarterback: 119
Most consecutive pass completions, game: 21 (2011)
Most comeback wins in the 4th quarter (season): 5 ( 2011)
Most game-winning drives in the 4th quarter/overtime (season): 6 (2007, 2011)
Most career playoff touchdowns: 13 (2011)

rick5292
06-18-2012, 04:12 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</p>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</p>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</p>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</p>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</p>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</p>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</p>


And Eli <u>is</u> their religion.</p>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</p>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</p>


I now see that you love me.</p>


</p>


To be fair....I have always loved you, but you knew that....but I was admittedly caught off gaurd by your assertion that people actually believed Eli "carried" us to a SB win rather than put this team on his back during the regular season (which he did) when the team needed him to. No one actually believes he won the SB single handedly. Thought this was an over reaction on your part.</p>


</p>


</p>


The only overreaction was a resonse to me. All I said in that thread was one sentence.</p>


It was...... No one carried anyone on their back. Eli was great but it was a pure team effort.</p>


Does that sound like an overreaction to you F?....... Me neither.</p>


It was then that good Ol' Morehead was attacked by the Cultists. I am a victim. <font size="5">All I try to do is help and love people!</font></p>


</p>

Calling shinanagins <font color="#FF0000">(spelling?) </font>on this one. If you want people to listen to you, then you won't say things like, " its called consistency. You might want to try it," when talking to Drez. That is talking DOWN to someone sir. We all make that mistake but I think you should wait for your emotions to settle down before you start typing...

rick5292
06-18-2012, 04:12 PM
apologies for double post...

FBomb
06-18-2012, 04:14 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</P>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</P>


I now see that you love me.</P>


</P>


To be fair....I have always loved you, but you knew that....but I was admittedly caught off gaurd by your assertion that people actually believed Eli "carried" us to a SB win rather than put this team on his back during the regular season (which he did) when the team needed him to. No one actually believes he won the SB single handedly. Thought this was an over reaction on your part.</P>


</P>


</P>


The only overreaction was a resonse to me. All I said in that thread was one sentence.</P>


It was...... No one carried anyone on their back. Eli was great but it was a pure team effort.</P>


Does that sound like an overreaction to you F?....... Me neither.</P>


It was then that good Ol' Morehead was attacked by the Cultists. I am a victim. All I try to do is help and love people!</P>


</P>


</P>


I do believe it's an overreaction because you started a thread based on one statement that really doesn't mean what you are ranting about.All it means is Eli stepped up when the other pieces of the puzzle were MIA....nothing more. In the past, Eli had his team to fall back on when his play was less than stellar....last year the roles were reversed. Getting hung up on symantics IS an overreaction.</P>

jakegibbs
06-18-2012, 04:15 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move.* Need I go on?</P>


Edit:* Your definition of "unfair" is too broad.* And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans.* All I want* to do is win.*Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010.* Fact.* *But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something.* The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well.* Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born.* That is just one example.</P>


*

The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also.* High and behind.* When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable.* The WRs should also have made the catch.* Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>.* If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


* They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB?* It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker.* Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either.* Look at the replays.* there were really bad ones in there.* And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about.* Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs.*** C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

Actually, had Welker read the coverage properly on that play he would have known that the ball wasn't going to go up the seam, but over his outside shoulder. Brady may have put a little too much on it, but had Wes reacted properly to the coverage he would have been able to adjust sooner to put himself in a better spot to make the catch.
</P>


It was a good pass.* he threw it to the open spot in the zone.* Further right and the safety could make a play on it.* Further left and the corner was there.</P>


Bottom line is that he threw it in a spot where Welker got both hands on it and wasn't batter or challenged by a defender.* Even as Collingsworth said.."Welker catches that ball 100 out of 100 times".</P>


That's what seperates good from GREAT. Tom had the chance to drop the dime on Welker & GAME but didn't. ELI had the chance to drop the dime on Manningham & he did GAME. He had the team on his back so to speak & made the GREAT THROW. That's the throw the QB's dream about making.</P>


Is it your view that Tom Brady isn't great?*** Now this is really getting out of hand.</P>

He record against the ELI is 1 win & 3 losses. Is that your conception of great? + 2 were SB losses when if he'd made a couple of great throws instead of missing recievers he'd be able to crow instead of eat crow. That's football. Winners goes on & the losers well they go home.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 04:16 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</P>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</P>


I now see that you love me.</P>


</P>


To be fair....I have always loved you, but you knew that....but I was admittedly caught off gaurd by your assertion that people actually believed Eli "carried" us to a SB win rather than put this team on his back during the regular season (which he did) when the team needed him to. No one actually believes he won the SB single handedly. Thought this was an over reaction on your part.</P>


</P>


</P>


The only overreaction was a resonse to me. All I said in that thread was one sentence.</P>


It was...... No one carried anyone on their back. Eli was great but it was a pure team effort.</P>


Does that sound like an overreaction to you F?....... Me neither.</P>


It was then that good Ol' Morehead was attacked by the Cultists. I am a victim. <FONT size=5>All I try to do is help and love people!</FONT></P>


</P>




Calling shinanagins <FONT color=#ff0000>(spelling?) </FONT>on this one. If you want people to listen to you, then you won't say things like, " its called consistency. You might want to try it," when talking to Drez. That is talking DOWN to someone sir. We all make that mistake but I think you should wait for your emotions to settle down before you start typing...
</P>


Do I always have to put in in red or can you guys figure it out for yourself?</P>


That line was a joke. It was actually a line a local mafia guy used when he "accidentally" was left alone in a bar with my wife.</P>


I figured you folks would not believe I was serious. Although I do love my Giants fan friends.</P>

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 04:17 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

Actually, had Welker read the coverage properly on that play he would have known that the ball wasn't going to go up the seam, but over his outside shoulder. Brady may have put a little too much on it, but had Wes reacted properly to the coverage he would have been able to adjust sooner to put himself in a better spot to make the catch.
</P>


It was a good pass. he threw it to the open spot in the zone. Further right and the safety could make a play on it. Further left and the corner was there.</P>


Bottom line is that he threw it in a spot where Welker got both hands on it and wasn't batter or challenged by a defender. Even as Collingsworth said.."Welker catches that ball 100 out of 100 times".</P>


That's what seperates good from GREAT. Tom had the chance to drop the dime on Welker &amp; GAME but didn't. ELI had the chance to drop the dime on Manningham &amp; he did GAME. He had the team on his back so to speak &amp; made the GREAT THROW. That's the throw the QB's dream about making.</P>


Is it your view that Tom Brady isn't great? Now this is really getting out of hand.</P>


He record against the ELI is 1 win &amp; 3 losses. Is that your conception of great? + 2 were SB losses when if he'd made a couple of great throws instead of missing recievers he'd be able to crow instead of eat crow. That's football. Winners goes on &amp; the losers well they go home.</P>


He doesn't play against Eli Manning (being QB's and all. Hard to figure that you didn't know that) and Tom Brady has 3 rings.</P>

jakegibbs
06-18-2012, 04:21 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I?* Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP.* I've said many times that I need to see more from them.* I want to see that they can do it consecutively.* People are saying our defense is great.* I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season.* Fewell, same deal.* When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move.* Need I go on?</P>


Edit:* Your definition of "unfair" is too broad.* And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans.* All I want* to do is win.*Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010.* Fact.* *But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something.* The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well.* Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born.* That is just one example.</P>


*

The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also.* High and behind.* When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable.* The WRs should also have made the catch.* Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>.* If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


* They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB?* It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker.* Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either.* Look at the replays.* there were really bad ones in there.* And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about.* Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs.*** C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

Actually, had Welker read the coverage properly on that play he would have known that the ball wasn't going to go up the seam, but over his outside shoulder. Brady may have put a little too much on it, but had Wes reacted properly to the coverage he would have been able to adjust sooner to put himself in a better spot to make the catch.
</P>


It was a good pass.* he threw it to the open spot in the zone.* Further right and the safety could make a play on it.* Further left and the corner was there.</P>


Bottom line is that he threw it in a spot where Welker got both hands on it and wasn't batter or challenged by a defender.* Even as Collingsworth said.."Welker catches that ball 100 out of 100 times".</P>


That's what seperates good from GREAT. Tom had the chance to drop the dime on Welker & GAME but didn't. ELI had the chance to drop the dime on Manningham & he did GAME. He had the team on his back so to speak & made the GREAT THROW. That's the throw the QB's dream about making.</P>


Is it your view that Tom Brady isn't great?*** Now this is really getting out of hand.</P>


He record against the ELI is 1 win & 3 losses. Is that your conception of great? + 2 were SB losses when if he'd made a couple of great throws instead of missing recievers he'd be able to crow instead of eat crow. That's football. Winners goes on & the losers well they go home.</P>


He doesn't play against Eli Manning* (being QB's and all.* Hard to figure that you didn't know that)* and Tom Brady *has 3 rings.</P>

Not since Spy Gate though. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........& how many SB MVP's does he have 3 too??

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 04:23 PM
Just scanned the thread I just want to again state that Boley missed but two of the 7 games we lost last season. So to suggest that Boley was as important to the team is Eli is a tremendous reach and speaks to this pent up hate that people have for Eli. I love how Gumby excuses his Eli hatred by calling it "devil's advocate" <U>Yet it seems he only plays devils advocate against Eli.</U> As far who carried the team? We're talking about football here. the quintessential team sport. NO ONE PLAYER can win a championship by himself. If someone says Eli carried that team that means when other parts of the team underperformed Eli delivered. It has nothing to do with Eli litterally carrying the team or being litterally the ONLY contributor to the win. The question I have is this: Why is it Tom Brady can carry his team, Drew Breese can carry his team, Aaron Rogers can carry his team, Big Ben hell even Phillip Rivers...etc . They can "carry" their teams and no one is callin it disrespectful to anyone...but when it comes to Eli.... It all speaks to the fact <U>that for whatever reason people judge Eli Manning unfairly</U>. He's got this handicap in the court of public opinion. Thats why is So frustrating when people start up with this "Stop calling me an Eli hater" crap. You're getting called an Eli hater because that's what you are. It's like you're running around in a white hood and torches and crying when someone calls you a KKK member. If you're gonna be hate your own damn QB at least have the stones to declare yourself.</P>


Oh have I? Everyone is ordaining Cruz and JPP. I've said many times that I need to see more from them. I want to see that they can do it consecutively. People are saying our defense is great. I've said many times that we've been horrible most of last season. Fewell, same deal. When this entire board was burying JR for not resigning Smith and Boss, I was one of the few defending the move. Need I go on?</P>


Edit: Your definition of "unfair" is too broad. And what you don't realize is that it's not Eli that's causing all this commotion, it's his fans. All I want to do is win.Eli threw 24 INTs in 2010. Fact. But when someone says that many of Eli's 24 INTs were not his fault, but <U>completely </U>on his receivers, I gotta say something. The blame is on <U>both </U>parties as Eli's throws were off target as well. Again take those threads x 20, and a hater is born. That is just one example.</P>




The year Eli threw 24 ints, many of those bounced off the receivers hands. Those were in fact all on the receiver. And it happened way too many times that year. I've never seen one QB have that happen to him so many times. Funny how all of you that are so objective miss that. Some were Eli's fault, but that year an inordinate amout of ints bounced off our receivers hands, and those were not on Eli.
</P>


They were poor throws also. High and behind. When you give an NFL QB all day, making your WRs do pirouettes in the air 8 yards down the field is unacceptable. The WRs should also have made the catch. Thus, the blame goes on <U>both</U>. If they were good throws, what are the chances of them getting picked off?</P>


They were catchable, If Brady had made those throws you'd say the receiver should have caught it. You also exaggerate how bad the throws were, and how long Eli has to throw.
</P>


You mean like the famed Wes Welker drop in the SB? It was a crappy pass AND a drop by Welker. Catchable doesn't mean it isn't a bad pass either. Look at the replays. there were really bad ones in there. And yes, he had all day.</P>


And this is what I'm talking about. Even when Eli throws a bad pass, some tend to overlook it and blame it on the WRs. C'mon man.</P>




ALL of the throws that I'm referring to were better than that throw by Brady. I would put the Brady to Welker as a bad pass that could have been could, but not should, have been caught. Hard to blame Welker much for that play.

Actually, had Welker read the coverage properly on that play he would have known that the ball wasn't going to go up the seam, but over his outside shoulder. Brady may have put a little too much on it, but had Wes reacted properly to the coverage he would have been able to adjust sooner to put himself in a better spot to make the catch.
</P>


It was a good pass. he threw it to the open spot in the zone. Further right and the safety could make a play on it. Further left and the corner was there.</P>


Bottom line is that he threw it in a spot where Welker got both hands on it and wasn't batter or challenged by a defender. Even as Collingsworth said.."Welker catches that ball 100 out of 100 times".</P>


That's what seperates good from GREAT. Tom had the chance to drop the dime on Welker &amp; GAME but didn't. ELI had the chance to drop the dime on Manningham &amp; he did GAME. He had the team on his back so to speak &amp; made the GREAT THROW. That's the throw the QB's dream about making.</P>


Is it your view that Tom Brady isn't great? Now this is really getting out of hand.</P>


He record against the ELI is 1 win &amp; 3 losses. Is that your conception of great? + 2 were SB losses when if he'd made a couple of great throws instead of missing recievers he'd be able to crow instead of eat crow. That's football. Winners goes on &amp; the losers well they go home.</P>


He doesn't play against Eli Manning (being QB's and all. Hard to figure that you didn't know that) and Tom Brady has 3 rings.</P>


Not since Spy Gate though. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........</P>


Just had a two day debate on that last week on another thread. Not going down that road again.</P>

rick5292
06-18-2012, 04:23 PM
Fair enough, Moorehead. I just think that while our defense can be overlooked at times for all that they have done, Eli has been an underrated player in the league. Heck, I prefer Eli over Aaron Rodgers, but THAT is JUST my opinion. Truth is, I think if you have someone...say Tuck for example; if he was being criticized time-and-time again, there is NO DOUBT that I would stick up for the guy. Being that Eli is our QB, he is THE MOST important player on our team, so many of the threads will be about him. Therefore, I will defend him just like I would with ANY OTHER player on our team who DESERVES credit for their game... that's all lol :0)

FBomb
06-18-2012, 04:25 PM
This thread is now just one ridiculous post after another.........Tom Brady is a great QB, and to suggest anything else is stupid.</P>


Guess what.....so is Eli. Thus endeth this dumb conversation</P>


</P>


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/545339_482518991773598_1570591555_n.jpg</P>


</P>

jakegibbs
06-18-2012, 04:27 PM
This thread is now just one ridiculous post after another.........Tom Brady is a great QB, and to suggest anything else is stupid.</P>


Guess what.....so is Eli.* Thus endeth this dumb conversation</P>


*</P>


https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/545339_482518991773598_1570591555_n.jpg</P>


*</P>

THANKS, we all needed that wake up call. End of story Eli & Tom are both ELITE right? Eli's & Co just got Tom & the Pats number right now so to speak.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 04:33 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</p>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</p>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</p>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</p>

And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.

Harooni
06-18-2012, 04:45 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</p>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</p>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</p>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</p>

And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.

please explain why we were 7-7 with eli carrying the team and then the last 6 games the D avg only 14 points given up and the rushing game over 110 yards per game.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 04:45 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</P>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</P>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</P>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</P>




And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.
</P>


My response was very benign. All I said in one sentence was..."no one carried the team on their back, Eli played great but it was a team effort"</P>


Do you disagree? I was called every name in the book for that comment.</P>


You must not only love Eli, you must not only think he's a great QB, but you must think he is a one man team and you must also think that all other QB's suck compared to him.</P>


At least thats what it seems to me with some of these people.</P>

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 04:51 PM
And here's another exchange where It was suggested that I was on " the Eli hate bandwagon" because I said that I thought our defense played well in the playoffs.</P>


</P>


</P>


It is apparent that Eli Manning understands the flaws and weaknesses in our defense and that is why he is playing the style of ball that he has been. He knows to orchestrate long drives and to give the defense a rest when needed. </P>


So stay on the Eli Manning hate wagon and look at this defense with rose colored glasses all you want. Keep bringing up Ben Rothlisberger because he actually wins in great part because of his defense while Eli Manning wins in spite of his. </P>


</P>


</P>


</P>


This is the kind of crap floating around here.</P>

Mohann
06-18-2012, 05:01 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</p>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</p>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</p>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</p>

And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.

please explain why we were 7-7 with eli carrying the team and then the last 6 games the D avg only 14 points given up and the rushing game over 110 yards per game.


I'm not sure what you're asking. We were only 7-7 because Eli wasn't getting help. How can you not say the defense and running game played poorly most of the year? How can you not say the passing game was the strong point the whole year? When it was time for the games to be decided, who made the big plays? Eli and the receivers. I'm not of the opinion that one player does it alone, but the QB does more than any other player ever single game. And when it comes down to nut check time Eli has coconuts.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 05:04 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</P>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</P>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</P>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</P>




And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.

please explain why we were 7-7 with eli carrying the team and then the last 6 games the D avg only 14 points given up and the rushing game over 110 yards per game.


I'm not sure what you're asking. We were only 7-7 because Eli wasn't getting help. How can you not say the defense and running game played poorly most of the year? How can you not say the passing game was the strong point the whole year? When it was time for the games to be decided, who made the big plays? Eli and the receivers. I'm not of the opinion that one player does it alone, but the QB does more than any other player ever single game. And when it comes down to nut check time Eli has coconuts.
</P>


Sounds painful.</P>

Harooni
06-18-2012, 05:06 PM
please explain why we were 7-7 with eli carrying the team and then the last 6 games the D avg only 14 points given up and the rushing game over 110 yards per game.


I'm not sure what you're asking. We were only 7-7 because Eli wasn't getting help. How can you not say the defense and running game played poorly most of the year? How can you not say the passing game was the strong point the whole year? When it was time for the games to be decided, who made the big plays? Eli and the receivers. I'm not of the opinion that one player does it alone, but the QB does more than any other player ever single game. And when it comes down to nut check time Eli has coconuts.


Im only pointing out that with Eli carrying the team we barely were above water and that when the D stepped up and the running game got better we were more than a .500 team and a playoff contender. While Eli did a great job he isnt the QB that can make a poor team win.

The Giants defense did not get enough credit for holding down top offenses the last 5-6 games of the season.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 05:09 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</p>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</p>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</p>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</p>




And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.

please explain why we were 7-7 with eli carrying the team and then the last 6 games the D avg only 14 points given up and the rushing game over 110 yards per game.


I'm not sure what you're asking. We were only 7-7 because Eli wasn't getting help. How can you not say the defense and running game played poorly most of the year? How can you not say the passing game was the strong point the whole year? When it was time for the games to be decided, who made the big plays? Eli and the receivers. I'm not of the opinion that one player does it alone, but the QB does more than any other player ever single game. And when it comes down to nut check time Eli has coconuts.
</p>


Sounds painful.</p>

See how tough Eli is? lol. How many times did we hear how Eli was going to be broken easily and hardly play? He wasn't tough enough to be an NFL QB. Or his posture would keep him from being a leader? So much crap with no basis in fact has been spewed about Eli by so many "Eli realists" and "objectivists" truth is Eli haters can't admit they were wrong.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 05:13 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</p>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</p>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</p>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</p>




And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.
</p>


My response was very benign. All I said in one sentence was..."no one carried the team on their back, Eli played great but it was a team effort"</p>


Do you disagree? I was called every name in the book for that comment.</p>


You must not only love Eli, you must not only think he's a great QB, but you must think he is a one man team and you must also think that all other QB's suck compared to him.</p>


At least thats what it seems to me with some of these people.</p>

I haven't called you any names, which is your loss because I have some really good ones. And you do see that I said I agree it's a team game, and while the QB does a lot more that anyone on the team, even he can't do it alone.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 05:16 PM
please explain why we were 7-7 with eli carrying the team and then the last 6 games the D avg only 14 points given up and the rushing game over 110 yards per game.


I'm not sure what you're asking. We were only 7-7 because Eli wasn't getting help. How can you not say the defense and running game played poorly most of the year? How can you not say the passing game was the strong point the whole year? When it was time for the games to be decided, who made the big plays? Eli and the receivers. I'm not of the opinion that one player does it alone, but the QB does more than any other player ever single game. And when it comes down to nut check time Eli has coconuts.


Im only pointing out that with Eli carrying the team we barely were above water and that when the D stepped up and the running game got better we were more than a .500 team and a playoff contender. While Eli did a great job he isnt the QB that can make a poor team win.

The Giants defense did not get enough credit for holding down top offenses the last 5-6 games of the season.


That's because they crapped the bed too many times in the regular season. But the whole team was spectacular in the playoffs. Even then Eli raised his game too. His best game was his worst statistically (vs SF), and he put up great playoff numbers.

Harooni
06-18-2012, 05:36 PM
please explain why we were 7-7 with eli carrying the team and then the last 6 games the D avg only 14 points given up and the rushing game over 110 yards per game.


I'm not sure what you're asking. We were only 7-7 because Eli wasn't getting help. How can you not say the defense and running game played poorly most of the year? How can you not say the passing game was the strong point the whole year? When it was time for the games to be decided, who made the big plays? Eli and the receivers. I'm not of the opinion that one player does it alone, but the QB does more than any other player ever single game. And when it comes down to nut check time Eli has coconuts.


Im only pointing out that with Eli carrying the team we barely were above water and that when the D stepped up and the running game got better we were more than a .500 team and a playoff contender. While Eli did a great job he isnt the QB that can make a poor team win.

The Giants defense did not get enough credit for holding down top offenses the last 5-6 games of the season.


That's because they crapped the bed too many times in the regular season. But the whole team was spectacular in the playoffs. Even then Eli raised his game too. His best game was his worst statistically (vs SF), and he put up great playoff numbers.

i agree SF game he was awesome , that beating he took was admirable. as i said he did great all season , but the team came together to win it all.

FBomb
06-18-2012, 05:47 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</P>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</P>


I now see that you love me.</P>


</P>


To be fair....I have always loved you, but you knew that....but I was admittedly caught off gaurd by your assertion that people actually believed Eli "carried" us to a SB win rather than put this team on his back during the regular season (which he did) when the team needed him to. No one actually believes he won the SB single handedly. Thought this was an over reaction on your part.</P>


</P>


</P>


The only overreaction was a resonse to me. All I said in that thread was one sentence.</P>


It was...... No one carried anyone on their back. Eli was great but it was a pure team effort.</P>


Does that sound like an overreaction to you F?....... Me neither.</P>


It was then that good Ol' Morehead was attacked by the Cultists. I am a victim. All I try to do is help and love people!</P>


</P>


</P>


I do believe it's an overreaction because you started a thread based on one statement that really doesn't mean what you are ranting about.All it means is Eli stepped up when the other pieces of the puzzle were MIA....nothing more. In the past, Eli had his team to fall back on when his play was less than stellar....last year the roles were reversed. Getting hung up on symantics IS an overreaction.</P>


</P>


By the way....I would would like your response to this MS. You can answer too Harooni.......but please refrain from using the 7-7 arguement. Without Eli stepping up in that stretch, the team is 3-11....or worse.</P>

Mohann
06-18-2012, 05:48 PM
please explain why we were 7-7 with eli carrying the team and then the last 6 games the D avg only 14 points given up and the rushing game over 110 yards per game.


I'm not sure what you're asking. We were only 7-7 because Eli wasn't getting help. How can you not say the defense and running game played poorly most of the year? How can you not say the passing game was the strong point the whole year? When it was time for the games to be decided, who made the big plays? Eli and the receivers. I'm not of the opinion that one player does it alone, but the QB does more than any other player ever single game. And when it comes down to nut check time Eli has coconuts.


Im only pointing out that with Eli carrying the team we barely were above water and that when the D stepped up and the running game got better we were more than a .500 team and a playoff contender. While Eli did a great job he isnt the QB that can make a poor team win.

The Giants defense did not get enough credit for holding down top offenses the last 5-6 games of the season.


That's because they crapped the bed too many times in the regular season. But the whole team was spectacular in the playoffs. Even then Eli raised his game too. His best game was his worst statistically (vs SF), and he put up great playoff numbers.

i agree SF game he was awesome , that beating he took was admirable. as i said he did great all season , but the team came together to win it all.


I don't know why you keep telling me this. I don't deny it's a team game. But you don't go after any other player the way you go after Eli, and you've told me he isn't tough enough and other crap that had no basis in fact. You said he wouldn't be a leader. And you were never concerned that there was no basis in fact for those conclusions. You have never been objective about Eli any more than the rest of us.

burier
06-18-2012, 05:54 PM
lol @ MS stating that Eli improved leaps and bounds this past year. I'm pretty sure I already buried that argument.

lol @ people who are afraid to admit the truth. *Gasp* Eli today is a better quarterback than Tom Brady.

What's it been? A whole decade of Brady jock riding? I understand that some fear change.

Drez
06-18-2012, 05:59 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</p>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</p>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</p>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</p>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</p>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</p>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</p>


And Eli <u>is</u> their religion.</p>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</p>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</p>


I now see that you love me.</p>


</p>


To be fair....I have always loved you, but you knew that....but I was admittedly caught off gaurd by your assertion that people actually believed Eli "carried" us to a SB win rather than put this team on his back during the regular season (which he did) when the team needed him to. No one actually believes he won the SB single handedly. Thought this was an over reaction on your part.</p>


</p>


</p>


The only overreaction was a resonse to me. All I said in that thread was one sentence.</p>


It was...... No one carried anyone on their back. Eli was great but it was a pure team effort.</p>


Does that sound like an overreaction to you F?....... Me neither.</p>


It was then that good Ol' Morehead was attacked by the Cultists. I am a victim. All I try to do is help and love people!</p>


</p>


</p>


I do believe it's an overreaction because you started a thread based on one statement that really doesn't mean what you are ranting about.All it means is Eli stepped up when the other pieces of the puzzle were MIA....nothing more. In the past, Eli had his team to fall back on when his play was less than stellar....last year the roles were reversed. Getting hung up on symantics IS an overreaction.</p>


</p>


By the way....I would would like your response to this MS. You can answer too Harooni.......but please refrain from using the 7-7 arguement. Without Eli stepping up in that stretch, the team is 3-11....or worse.</p>

<font color="#FF0000">Cultist!!!</font>

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 06:03 PM
Children please! All of you like Eli to some extent. All of you like JPP to some extent. Whether or not it's passionate love doesn't matter. We're all Giants' fans. When I was very young, the G QB was Charlie Connerly. At the time, his best plays were throwing the ball away w/o getting called for grounding! Tim Mara began to draft some good players to play around CC. Rote, Brown, Gifford, Webster, and then they got a new HC, JL Howell, and OC DC coaches named Lombardi and Landry. All of a sudden, CC became a much better player, and fans began to love on him!
Eli has been pretty fortunate to have good players around him as he matured as a QB. Now he's one of the best, and if you really don't like him, go root for the Boys, or the Saints, or whoever. But know that you're living in an era of Giant greatness, and one of the reasons for the greatness id ELI. It hasn't always been this way. Appreciate what we have as a team, and as a QB. MS and Gumby, because of our constitution and freedom on our message boards, you're free to make your comments, but please don't try to stir the pot just for controversy! It's too hard on an old guys heart!
Excuse me, I must go split more firewood for the winter.


I agree with this completely.

We are in an era of NY Giants Greatness and Eli Manning is a huge reason for that.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 06:07 PM
Children please! All of you like Eli to some extent. All of you like JPP to some extent. Whether or not it's passionate love doesn't matter. We're all Giants' fans. When I was very young, the G QB was Charlie Connerly. At the time, his best plays were throwing the ball away w/o getting called for grounding! Tim Mara began to draft some good players to play around CC. Rote, Brown, Gifford, Webster, and then they got a new HC, JL Howell, and OC DC coaches named Lombardi and Landry. All of a sudden, CC became a much better player, and fans began to love on him!
Eli has been pretty fortunate to have good players around him as he matured as a QB. Now he's one of the best, and if you really don't like him, go root for the Boys, or the Saints, or whoever. But know that you're living in an era of Giant greatness, and one of the reasons for the greatness id ELI. It hasn't always been this way. Appreciate what we have as a team, and as a QB. MS and Gumby, because of our constitution and freedom on our message boards, you're free to make your comments, but please don't try to stir the pot just for controversy! It's too hard on an old guys heart!
Excuse me, I must go split more firewood for the winter.


I agree with this completely.

We are in an era of NY Giants Greatness and Eli Manning is a huge reason for that.

Uh oh, you said something good about Eli without saying something bad. You must be a homer.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 06:09 PM
OK this is getting rediculous.</P>


My original post was a tongue in cheek attemp at humor. Aimed at making fun of some of the more enthusiastic Eli fans on the MB.</P>


For the record...I am a huge Eli fan. My only problem with Eli was his erratic play in 2010 where it seemed to me, he was more paniced in the pocket and making very poor decisions with the football.</P>


His play in 2011 was tremendous. I strongly believe that Eli is our leader and his great play was a key component to our winning a SB in 2011.</P>


But I do not accept that any player "carried this team to a SB win". To me, thats an insult to our team and all its players. When I pointed that out in a one sentence response, without any vitriol, all hell's fury rained down on me as if I had blasphemed the Almighty himself.</P>


My problem has NEVER been with Eli. My problem is with these posters who can't put our QB's play in its proper perspective. That he is a very good player, who improved leaps and bounds in 2011. Its not enough for them. If you don't believe that we are a one man team named "Eli Manning", you are a "hater".</P>


So I attempted a little humor at their expense. But as is always the case, ridiculing the religion of others gets people angry.</P>


And Eli <U>is</U> their religion.</P>



Much like with Gumby, forgive people if they don't give you the benefit of the doubt if you were attempting to be humorous, as this thread really isn't something that is new for you (you just don't normally make a thread all on its own about it).

Also, I didn't see a panicked Eli in '10. What I saw was a QB that didn't trust that the defense was going to hold up their end of the bargain (much like they hadn't for the better part of 10 weeks in '09), which subsequently made him think that he had to try and do everything on his own, to not give up on any play even when he knew better. I'm not saying that that was a good thing by him. Not in the least. However, I didn't see a situation where there was a legitimate, long-term reason for worry.

And I would like to add, that in this post, you're just covering your ***. You last two sentences prove that.
</P>


Since there was a slightly positive hint in your cybertone. (despite the jab at the end) I am going to take it and run.</P>


I now see that you love me.</P>


</P>


To be fair....I have always loved you, but you knew that....but I was admittedly caught off gaurd by your assertion that people actually believed Eli "carried" us to a SB win rather than put this team on his back during the regular season (which he did) when the team needed him to. No one actually believes he won the SB single handedly. Thought this was an over reaction on your part.</P>


</P>


</P>


The only overreaction was a resonse to me. All I said in that thread was one sentence.</P>


It was...... No one carried anyone on their back. Eli was great but it was a pure team effort.</P>


Does that sound like an overreaction to you F?....... Me neither.</P>


It was then that good Ol' Morehead was attacked by the Cultists. I am a victim. All I try to do is help and love people!</P>


</P>


</P>


I do believe it's an overreaction because you started a thread based on one statement that really doesn't mean what you are ranting about.All it means is Eli stepped up when the other pieces of the puzzle were MIA....nothing more. In the past, Eli had his team to fall back on when his play was less than stellar....last year the roles were reversed. Getting hung up on symantics IS an overreaction.</P>


</P>


By the way....I would would like your response to this MS. You can answer too Harooni.......but please refrain from using the 7-7 arguement. Without Eli stepping up in that stretch, the team is 3-11....or worse.</P>


</P>


I have no idea what the Ginats record would be. Who would be playing QB? David Carr? Then your probably right. I think Eli was great in the regular season (after week 1) Obviously a QB playing great and a defense playing poorly helps tremendously.</P>


The other point is that without the defense stepping up and playing very well, we would not have won the SB. To me thats my entire point. It was a TEAM effort. I know thats blasphemy, but I'll take my chances.</P>

chasjay
06-18-2012, 06:09 PM
If Eli fell in the woods and no one was around, would he go down feet first so that it couldn't be called a fumble? Would Morehead hear him?

The man's a great QB and there are some great Giants fans who don't give him as much credit as I do. I'm not going to try and make them give him more credit, but I certainly don't want them trying to make me give him less.

Just as an aside to this marathon converargument - the Eli debate rages in other places also. The number of people who have voted on NFL.com as to whether Eli is over or underrated at #31 is staggering when compared to the number that have voted about anyone else. Last night somewhere close to 60,000 had weighed in on Eli while Flacco was the next in line with maybe 1/3 that money voicing opinions. Our QB certainly draws some interest.

Drez
06-18-2012, 06:12 PM
lol @ MS stating that Eli improved leaps and bounds this past year. I'm pretty sure I already buried that argument.

lol @ people who are afraid to admit the truth. *Gasp* Eli today is a better quarterback than Tom Brady.

What's it been? A whole decade of Brady jock riding? I understand that some fear change.
I think it's funny that MS uses if you say that Eli improves then you get jumped on by people, as every single Eli supporter has said one of Eli's strengths is that he improves every year, lol.

Drez
06-18-2012, 06:19 PM
The other point is that without the defense stepping up and playing very well, we would not have won the SB. To me thats my entire point. It was a TEAM effort. I know thats blasphemy, but I'll take my chances.</p>

And that's only because the defense had been playing sooooooo horribly. They could have improved to playing average and we likely still win the SB (and with the way they were playing average would have looked great).

But, I guess orchestrating 7 fourth quarter wins in the regular season isn't carrying a team.

gmen0820
06-18-2012, 06:22 PM
I used to take place in these arguments, now I just don't understand them.

Morehead State
06-18-2012, 06:47 PM
Children please! All of you like Eli to some extent. All of you like JPP to some extent. Whether or not it's passionate love doesn't matter. We're all Giants' fans. When I was very young, the G QB was Charlie Connerly. At the time, his best plays were throwing the ball away w/o getting called for grounding! Tim Mara began to draft some good players to play around CC. Rote, Brown, Gifford, Webster, and then they got a new HC, JL Howell, and OC DC coaches named Lombardi and Landry. All of a sudden, CC became a much better player, and fans began to love on him!
Eli has been pretty fortunate to have good players around him as he matured as a QB. Now he's one of the best, and if you really don't like him, go root for the Boys, or the Saints, or whoever. But know that you're living in an era of Giant greatness, and one of the reasons for the greatness id ELI. It hasn't always been this way. Appreciate what we have as a team, and as a QB. MS and Gumby, because of our constitution and freedom on our message boards, you're free to make your comments, but please don't try to stir the pot just for controversy! It's too hard on an old guys heart!
Excuse me, I must go split more firewood for the winter.
I agree with this completely. We are in an era of NY Giants Greatness and Eli Manning is a huge reason for that.

Uh oh, you said something good about Eli without saying something bad. You must be a homer.
</P>


You can say as many wonderful things about Eli all you want. Just don't tell me that my beloved team was "carried" by any one player. We had the greatest defensive player of all time and our team was never "carried" by LT.</P>


The difference between our team after 14 games and our team at the trophy ceremony was the defense. We were a mediocre team until they picked it up. We had a below average defense and an above average offense. By week 16 or 17 we had an above average defense.</P>


We became a great team when the defense started playing like they were capable.</P>


</P>

Mohann
06-18-2012, 06:53 PM
Children please! All of you like Eli to some extent. All of you like JPP to some extent. Whether or not it's passionate love doesn't matter. We're all Giants' fans. When I was very young, the G QB was Charlie Connerly. At the time, his best plays were throwing the ball away w/o getting called for grounding! Tim Mara began to draft some good players to play around CC. Rote, Brown, Gifford, Webster, and then they got a new HC, JL Howell, and OC DC coaches named Lombardi and Landry. All of a sudden, CC became a much better player, and fans began to love on him!
Eli has been pretty fortunate to have good players around him as he matured as a QB. Now he's one of the best, and if you really don't like him, go root for the Boys, or the Saints, or whoever. But know that you're living in an era of Giant greatness, and one of the reasons for the greatness id ELI. It hasn't always been this way. Appreciate what we have as a team, and as a QB. MS and Gumby, because of our constitution and freedom on our message boards, you're free to make your comments, but please don't try to stir the pot just for controversy! It's too hard on an old guys heart!
Excuse me, I must go split more firewood for the winter.
I agree with this completely. We are in an era of NY Giants Greatness and Eli Manning is a huge reason for that.

Uh oh, you said something good about Eli without saying something bad. You must be a homer.
</p>


You can say as many wonderful things about Eli all you want. Just don't tell me that my beloved team was "carried" by any one player. We had the greatest defensive player of all time and our team was never "carried" by LT.</p>


The difference between our team after 14 games and our team at the trophy ceremony was the defense. We were a mediocre team until they picked it up. We had a below average defense and an above average offense. By week 16 or 17 we had an above average defense.</p>


We became a great team when the defense started playing like they were capable.</p>


</p>

I told you, as long as you're consistent about it, I'm fine. No other QB has ever carried a team right? Its a team game so even Brady doesn't carry his team? Rodgers and Brees either?

Harooni
06-18-2012, 07:35 PM
shouldnt a top 5 QB , be able to execute a QB sneak? I just find this so odd.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 08:16 PM
shouldnt a top 5 QB , be able to execute a QB sneak? I just find this so odd.


And here you are saying something dumb to antagonize other Giants fans. Tell me again how it's the Eli lovers are always starting stuff by saying good things about Eli. How dare they!

chasjay
06-18-2012, 08:48 PM
shouldnt a top 5 QB , be able to execute a QB sneak? I just find this so odd.


Well - what are Eli's stats on QB sneaks? Is the premise that Eli needs to take pressure off the RB's and FB's by carrying more of the short yardage ground game load?

giantsfan420
06-18-2012, 09:13 PM
shouldnt a top 5 QB , be able to execute a QB sneak?* I just find this so odd.


or a qb kneel down. i agree. rivers isnt a top 5 qb and proved it when he fumbled a SD win vs KC last season on a botched snap/kneel down play.

eli has had no issues with qb sneaks. i dont want eli scrambling and running for big yardage ex that fumble he wasnt touched on @ philly in 2010...but qb sneaks and runs, eli has done well ex playoffs vs atl on that 3rd and short he picked it up with his feet and that got the offense rolling

btw, if qb sneaks weighed heavily on the merits of a qb, tebow would be the G.O.A.T

yoeddy
06-18-2012, 09:13 PM
Some people used to say that Tiki Barber carried this team. Saved Tom Coughlin's job, too...anyone still believe that?

Drez
06-18-2012, 09:16 PM
shouldnt a top 5 QB , be able to execute a QB sneak? I just find this so odd.


or a qb kneel down. i agree. rivers isnt a top 5 qb and proved it when he fumbled a SD win vs KC last season on a botched snap/kneel down play.

eli has had no issues with qb sneaks. i dont want eli scrambling and running for big yardage ex that fumble he wasnt touched on @ philly in 2010...but qb sneaks and runs, eli has done well ex playoffs vs atl on that 3rd and short he picked it up with his feet and that got the offense rolling

btw, if qb sneaks weighed heavily on the merits of a qb, tebow would be the G.O.A.T
Yeah, Eli possibly not being great at a play that may be run a half dozen times a season should really keep him out of top QB club!!

Die-Hard
06-18-2012, 09:24 PM
I can't believe this insanely ridiculous topic has reached 14 pages, and will probably be closer to 20 before the sun comes up tomorrow

Nothing......<font size="6">NOTHING</font> has been resolved or agreed upon, and yet, it continues like a dog chasing his damn tail.

In another week, a new one will arise from the ashes of this one, and the vicious cycle will start all over again, with nary a single opinion changed or revised.

It's hysterical

Drez
06-18-2012, 09:30 PM
I can't believe this insanely ridiculous topic has reached 14 pages, and will probably be closer to 20 before the sun comes up tomorrow

Nothing......<font size="6">NOTHING</font> has been resolved or agreed upon, and yet, it continues like a dog chasing his damn tail.

In another week, a new one will arise from the ashes of this one, and the vicious cycle will start all over again, with nary a single opinion changed or revised.

It's hysterical



Good lord, I can't wait until real football starts. But, then again, that won't stop this kind of thread, either, no matter how well or poorly Eli is playing.

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 09:35 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</P>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together.* If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season.* Who's getting offended?* To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable.* Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season.* As for who's the most important, I can care less.* The SB was a team win.* Why is that so hard to swallow?</P>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</P>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships.* EVER!!!</P>




And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.
</P>


My response was very benign.* All I said in one sentence was..."no one carried the team on their back, Eli played great but it was a team effort"</P>


Do you disagree?** I was called every name in the book for that comment.</P>


You must not only love Eli, you must not only think he's a great QB, but you must think he is a one man team and you must also think that all other QB's suck compared to him.</P>


At least thats what it seems to me with some of these people.</P>

No yoy weren't. You jumped into that thread in order to derail it and it was you that staryed calling people morons. Now you gonna complain because you are called names back? Get a life already you dirty animal.

JPP
06-18-2012, 09:46 PM
You could always turn the computer off or you know, just not engage those people in conversation. The problem isn't Eli lovers the problem is that when people don't agree %100 it turns into a big whine fest.

Roswell777
06-18-2012, 09:46 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</P>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together.* If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season.* Who's getting offended?* To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable.* Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season.* As for who's the most important, I can care less.* The SB was a team win.* Why is that so hard to swallow?</P>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</P>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships.* EVER!!!</P>




And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.
</P>


My response was very benign.* All I said in one sentence was..."no one carried the team on their back, Eli played great but it was a team effort"</P>


Do you disagree?** I was called every name in the book for that comment.</P>


You must not only love Eli, you must not only think he's a great QB, but you must think he is a one man team and you must also think that all other QB's suck compared to him.</P>


At least thats what it seems to me with some of these people.</P>

No yoy weren't. You jumped into that thread in order to derail it and it was you that staryed calling people morons. Now you gonna complain because you are called names back? Get a life already you dirty animal.

I'm fuzzy on the whole "dirty animal" thing.

Please explain.

Drez
06-18-2012, 09:56 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</p>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together. If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season. Who's getting offended? To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable. Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season. As for who's the most important, I can care less. The SB was a team win. Why is that so hard to swallow?</p>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</p>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships. EVER!!!</p>




And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.
</p>


My response was very benign. All I said in one sentence was..."no one carried the team on their back, Eli played great but it was a team effort"</p>


Do you disagree? I was called every name in the book for that comment.</p>


You must not only love Eli, you must not only think he's a great QB, but you must think he is a one man team and you must also think that all other QB's suck compared to him.</p>


At least thats what it seems to me with some of these people.</p>

No yoy weren't. You jumped into that thread in order to derail it and it was you that staryed calling people morons. Now you gonna complain because you are called names back? Get a life already you dirty animal.

I'm fuzzy on the whole "dirty animal" thing.

Please explain.
I can understand that MS can be a frustrating, somewhat annoying, pain in the butt that likes to play victim and a bit of a curmudgeon, but I think it's a little much calling him a dirty animal.

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 10:03 PM
And how did we get to the post season? It wasn't the Defense that allowed 400 points, it wasn't the anemic running game. The single most important person was easily Eli. When the d and running game came around and started to help Eli went nuts. If he didn't carry the team then no QB has ever carried a team. If you want to say no one person carries a ,then be offended when it's said about other players too.
</p>


We got to the post season because the entire team came together.* If the defense continue to play like garbage, we wouldn't have sniffed the post season.* Who's getting offended?* To give most of the credit to Eli for the SB win, when in fact the team came together at the right time, is unbelievable.* Fact is, if the defense didn't play much better, we wouldn't be in the post season.* As for who's the most important, I can care less.* The SB was a team win.* Why is that so hard to swallow?</p>




The only reason we were still in the playoff hunt when the whole team got it together was because of the passing game. The D played so crappy for the first 80% of the season they do not deserve credit for getting us to the playoffs, same for the running game. They didn't carry us, that's for sure.
</p>


Teams that are "carried on the back" of one player NEVER win championships.* EVER!!!</p>




And if that's your position and your consistent, I'm ok with it. I actually agree. But you are familiar with the phrase "carried the team", and have seen it applied to others, right? Well as far as I'm concerned, If it applied to other QBs, it certainly applied to Eli last year.
</p>


My response was very benign.* All I said in one sentence was..."no one carried the team on their back, Eli played great but it was a team effort"</p>


Do you disagree?** I was called every name in the book for that comment.</p>


You must not only love Eli, you must not only think he's a great QB, but you must think he is a one man team and you must also think that all other QB's suck compared to him.</p>


At least thats what it seems to me with some of these people.</p>

No yoy weren't. You jumped into that thread in order to derail it and it was you that staryed calling people morons. Now you gonna complain because you are called names back? Get a life already you dirty animal.

I'm fuzzy on the whole "dirty animal" thing.

Please explain.
I can understand that MS can be a frustrating, somewhat annoying, pain in the butt that likes to play victim and a bit of a curmudgeon, but I think it's a little much calling him a dirty animal.


I guess you are right and I shouldn't call the bitter jealous curmudgeon a dirty animal or any other name even if he called me a moron first. I should be grown up to know that ia the attention he wants and that is why he derails threads in the first place.

lawl
06-18-2012, 10:13 PM
This thread is dumb

chasjay
06-18-2012, 10:16 PM
I guess you are right and I shouldn't call the bitter jealous curmudgeon a dirty animal or any other name even if he called me a moron first. I should be grown up to know that ia the attention he wants and that is why he derails threads in the first place.

Try 'jackanapes' - that'll get him good!! Or maybe "churlish lout!"

Roosevelt
06-18-2012, 10:17 PM
Children please! All of you like Eli to some extent. All of you like JPP to some extent. Whether or not it's passionate love doesn't matter. We're all Giants' fans. When I was very young, the G QB was Charlie Connerly. At the time, his best plays were throwing the ball away w/o getting called for grounding! Tim Mara began to draft some good players to play around CC. Rote, Brown, Gifford, Webster, and then they got a new HC, JL Howell, and OC DC coaches named Lombardi and Landry. All of a sudden, CC became a much better player, and fans began to love on him!
Eli has been pretty fortunate to have good players around him as he matured as a QB. Now he's one of the best, and if you really don't like him, go root for the Boys, or the Saints, or whoever. But know that you're living in an era of Giant greatness, and one of the reasons for the greatness id ELI. It hasn't always been this way. Appreciate what we have as a team, and as a QB. MS and Gumby, because of our constitution and freedom on our message boards, you're free to make your comments, but please don't try to stir the pot just for controversy! It's too hard on an old guys heart!
Excuse me, I must go split more firewood for the winter.
I agree with this completely. We are in an era of NY Giants Greatness and Eli Manning is a huge reason for that.

Uh oh, you said something good about Eli without saying something bad. You must be a homer.
</p>


You can say as many wonderful things about Eli all you want. Just don't tell me that my beloved team was "carried" by any one player. <font color="#000080">We had the greatest defensive player of all time and our team was never "carried" by LT.</font></p>


The difference between our team after 14 games and our team at the trophy ceremony was the defense. We were a mediocre team until they picked it up. We had a below average defense and an above average offense. By week 16 or 17 we had an above average defense.</p>


We became a great team when the defense started playing like they were capable.</p>


</p>


</p>

That's a great point. The Giants were never about one guy until Eli's groupies came to town.</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>

chasjay
06-18-2012, 10:20 PM
This thread is dumb

All of it or just the last few pages?

I think it is finally running out of steam - usually when the arguing stops and the insults start, they are headed for life support.

chasjay
06-18-2012, 10:27 PM
</p>

That's a great point. The Giants were never about one guy until Eli's groupies came to town.</p>

</p>

What do you really have to compare to Rosie? Until the internet and message boards you just had your group of folks or a few people you ran across in bars or restaurants to share opinions with. Eli's "groupies" aren't responsible - the technology is. Or maybe you truly believe this wouldn't have gone on in Phil's time if there had been message boards then. I believe it would have.
</p>

byron
06-18-2012, 10:48 PM
This thread is dumb its beyond dumb its ridiculously insane !

Mohann
06-18-2012, 10:48 PM
Children please! All of you like Eli to some extent. All of you like JPP to some extent. Whether or not it's passionate love doesn't matter. We're all Giants' fans. When I was very young, the G QB was Charlie Connerly. At the time, his best plays were throwing the ball away w/o getting called for grounding! Tim Mara began to draft some good players to play around CC. Rote, Brown, Gifford, Webster, and then they got a new HC, JL Howell, and OC DC coaches named Lombardi and Landry. All of a sudden, CC became a much better player, and fans began to love on him!
Eli has been pretty fortunate to have good players around him as he matured as a QB. Now he's one of the best, and if you really don't like him, go root for the Boys, or the Saints, or whoever. But know that you're living in an era of Giant greatness, and one of the reasons for the greatness id ELI. It hasn't always been this way. Appreciate what we have as a team, and as a QB. MS and Gumby, because of our constitution and freedom on our message boards, you're free to make your comments, but please don't try to stir the pot just for controversy! It's too hard on an old guys heart!
Excuse me, I must go split more firewood for the winter.
I agree with this completely. We are in an era of NY Giants Greatness and Eli Manning is a huge reason for that.

Uh oh, you said something good about Eli without saying something bad. You must be a homer.
</p>


You can say as many wonderful things about Eli all you want. Just don't tell me that my beloved team was "carried" by any one player. <font color="#000080">We had the greatest defensive player of all time and our team was never "carried" by LT.</font></p>


The difference between our team after 14 games and our team at the trophy ceremony was the defense. We were a mediocre team until they picked it up. We had a below average defense and an above average offense. By week 16 or 17 we had an above average defense.</p>


We became a great team when the defense started playing like they were capable.</p>


</p>


</p>

That's a great point. The Giants were never about one guy until Eli's groupies came to town.</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>

Carried the team is just a cliche and not to be taken literally. I watch the games and Eli is not snapping the ball to himself then handing off to himself. He has zero QB sacks for his career. It really means he was the most important Giant. I don't think Tuck, Osi, JPP or any other Giant would be as offended by the statement as some of you are for them. Lighten up Francis. Someday, if Harooni asks nicely, I'll take a few hours to explain Eli to all of you that don't get him.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 10:52 PM
</p>

That's a great point. The Giants were never about one guy until Eli's groupies came to town.</p>

</p>

What do you really have to compare to Rosie? Until the internet and message boards you just had your group of folks or a few people you ran across in bars or restaurants to share opinions with. Eli's "groupies" aren't responsible - the technology is. Or maybe you truly believe this wouldn't have gone on in Phil's time if there had been message boards then. I believe it would have.
</p>

I was the one bashing Phil. My Cowboys and Rams fan friends, (freshman college roommates, nothing i could do) both told me he was a great QB and I'd miss him when he was gone. They were so right. I'm not making the same mistake twice.

Harooni
06-18-2012, 11:20 PM
its not that we don't like fans to say good things about Eli, its that they tend to be all upset if another player gets attention over Eli and will go as far as putting down said player to make it seem Eli is the only thing the giants have.

this team was a .500 team with Eli carrying them and then became better when the D and running game stepped up. means its a team win and thats fine with me. Eli is a Cog , a very important Cog but a cog none the less. When Eli turns the ball over less we seem to win.

Mohann
06-18-2012, 11:25 PM
its not that we don't like fans to say good things about Eli, its that they tend to be all upset if another player gets attention over Eli and will go as far as putting down said player to make it seem Eli is the only thing the giants have.

this team was a .500 team with Eli carrying them and then became better when the D and running game stepped up. means its a team win and thats fine with me. Eli is a Cog , a very important Cog but a cog none the less. When Eli turns the ball over less we seem to win.


Eli's oline was trying to get him killed, the running game was non existent and the D cost us game flat out by themselves. How come the rest of the team only factors into his success with you and not his failures? I've never seen half as many balls go off the hands of a wr and get intercepted for one QB in one year as with Eli. Both hands on the ball should be caught and not int. when Brady throws it. Why the double standard?

Drez
06-18-2012, 11:27 PM
=
this team was a .500 team with Eli carrying them


And Eli was the main reason we were a .500 team and not a .225 team.

Harooni
06-18-2012, 11:28 PM
=
this team was a .500 team with Eli carrying them


And Eli was the main reason we were a .500 team and not a .225 team.


I agree. no argument there. Because of Eli we had a shot to improve and get on a roll.

JPP
06-18-2012, 11:43 PM
Children please! All of you like Eli to some extent. All of you like JPP to some extent. Whether or not it's passionate love doesn't matter. We're all Giants' fans. When I was very young, the G QB was Charlie Connerly. At the time, his best plays were throwing the ball away w/o getting called for grounding! Tim Mara began to draft some good players to play around CC. Rote, Brown, Gifford, Webster, and then they got a new HC, JL Howell, and OC DC coaches named Lombardi and Landry. All of a sudden, CC became a much better player, and fans began to love on him!
Eli has been pretty fortunate to have good players around him as he matured as a QB. Now he's one of the best, and if you really don't like him, go root for the Boys, or the Saints, or whoever. But know that you're living in an era of Giant greatness, and one of the reasons for the greatness id ELI. It hasn't always been this way. Appreciate what we have as a team, and as a QB. MS and Gumby, because of our constitution and freedom on our message boards, you're free to make your comments, but please don't try to stir the pot just for controversy! It's too hard on an old guys heart!
Excuse me, I must go split more firewood for the winter.
I agree with this completely. We are in an era of NY Giants Greatness and Eli Manning is a huge reason for that.

Uh oh, you said something good about Eli without saying something bad. You must be a homer.
</p>


You can say as many wonderful things about Eli all you want.* Just don't tell me that my beloved team was "carried" by any one player.* <font color="#000080">We had the greatest defensive player of all time and our team was never "carried" by LT.</font></p>


* The difference between our team after 14 games and our team at the trophy ceremony was the defense.* We were a mediocre team until they picked it up.* We had a below average defense and an above average offense.* By week 16 or 17 we had an above average defense.</p>


We became a great team when the defense started playing like they were capable.</p>


</p>


</p>

That's a great point.* The Giants were never about one guy until Eli's groupies came to town.</p>


</p>


</p>


</p>

It isn't Eli's groupies it is the age we live in. I mean with sports channels like NFL network relentlessly trying to anoint the next great one, a lot of people have grown up with this culture and feel that Eli never gets his fair Share. I don't think they are wrong but I also don't care what the media heads have to say while a lot of fans haven't learned those lessons yet and will eventually realize the media is all about the next one...and usually that one is a QB. That is why we have so many people still debating Eli, now at least most of the haters seem to be fans of other teams at least so some change has definitely taken place between Superbowls 42 and 47.

Plus gotta remember how childish people are and a lot of people were proven right about eli eventually working out and want to see him given his just due(like the brady's and Rogers of the league). While on the flip side some people have grown to like him over time and were proven wrong about Eli and would just like all the 'Hater' talk to go away.

buffyblue
06-18-2012, 11:47 PM
its not that we don't like fans to say good things about Eli, its that they tend to be all upset if another player gets attention over Eli and will go as far as putting down said player to make it seem Eli is the only thing the giants have.

this team was a .500 team with Eli carrying them and then became better when the D and running game stepped up. means its a team win and thats fine with me. Eli is a Cog , a very important Cog but a cog none the less. When Eli turns the ball over less we seem to win.


I dont agree with that at all in regard to how Eli fans react. i don’t see Eli fans jumping into threads that praise another player and start interjecting Eli is better in those threads. However, whenever there is a thread that praises Eli, the anti-Elis jump all over it and derail it. Again and again.

When we were 7-7, we gave up more points than we scored. In fact, we finished the regular season with more points scored against us than we scored and we had a fairly prolific offense. I know the defense was hurt and there were extenuating circumstances that folks continually bring but the weird thing is, those folks never want to acknowledge any of the extenuating circumstances and injuries on offense that may effect Eli Mannings play. Funny how that works.

Eli Manning is more than a cog. Way More. He is the leader of NY Giants. Like it or not he is the face of the organization and he is what folks look to to represent us. He is the one player on NY Giants that we can not afford to lose.

I go to other boards and I see how they praise their QB and how they love them and you know what? That is what you are suppossed to do on your “home team” board. It is a shame that we can not do that on this wonderful board without a bunch of folks acting as if any praise for Eli Manning is horrible and the thread needs to be derailed in attempts to make their points putting down our beloved QB.

Enjoy this time folks because it is a great time to be NY Giants fans. We are watching the greatest QB in the history of our organization lead our team and leave his legacy.

I bELIeve.

Harooni
06-19-2012, 01:14 AM
as much as you appreciate Eli ,it would be nice to appreciate the rest of the team. Eli has a darn good team and coach around him.

Mohann
06-19-2012, 02:13 AM
as much as you appreciate Eli ,it would be nice to appreciate the rest of the team. Eli has a darn good team and coach around him.


Eli is the guy on the team that gets dumped on undeservedly, so I step up. He's better than you realize. Doesn't mean I don't love the rest of the team. I think JPP is a beast. My favorite defensive player since LT. Cruz is amazing. I'm pumped for Wilson and Randle. Do you think us homers only like Eli?

Harooni
06-19-2012, 04:19 AM
Opera man -[8] Eli-oh Eli-oh No respecto , mucho dinero , QB slide.... no comprendo!!!, El vote-o numbero uno says homer...El bobo. [8]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc284/jdavalos8010/operaman4.jpg

GCGiant
06-19-2012, 06:22 AM
I am calling BS on the guys saying it is not Eli that they don't like but his worshipers. That is BS. It is Eli and the fact that he proved you wrong and continues to get better that has your panties in a wad.

giantsfan420
06-19-2012, 06:23 AM
Its not enough to like our QB.* Its not enough to be happy he's our leader and appreciate everything he's done for our franchise.* No sir.....You must love in unconditionally and forsake all others.</P>


Here's the way the thought police work.........</P>


If you say.........** "I think Ben has great escape ability and makes a lot of plays with his feet"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretation. is....... Since Eli and Ben were drafted the same year, any compliments paid to Ben must mean you think he's better than Eli.*</P>


Conclusion:** You're an Eli Hater.</P>


*</P>
Nevermind where you've actually stated, repeatedly, that Ben is better than Eli, and that since Ben is so great, we lowly eli fans shouldnt take offense to that.


If you say:.........* "I think JPP is one of the best defensive players in the NFL"</P>


The Thought Police Interpretaion is:....... Since you like JPP, there is a chance that you think he is a better player than Eli.****</P>


*Conclusion..... You're an Eli Hater

Nevermind that anytime a person believes Eli is better than JPP, or any player, you repeatedly present ur opinion that the person is a moron, and wrong..</P>


*</P>


If you say........"The Giants play great as a team"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is.........Since you think we play as a team, you don't understand that Eli carries this team and we would be nothing without him.** </P>


Conclusion....You're an Eli Hater.

nevermind that when someone points out how great eli played, you repeatedly remind them that it was the giants who were great, and not eli, and that your not an actual fan of the giants but of eli, as u've so often done.

</P>


*</P>


If you say........ "I think Eli improved tremendously this season"</P>


The thought Police Interpretation is......."Since you think he improved so much this season, you must believe that he wasn't always great.* When I say always....I mean from that glorious day in April of 1980 when Archie looked at Olivia with a twinkle in his eye and Eli was immaculately concieved.</P>


Conclusion.....You're an Eli Hater.

nevermind that you've repeatedly stated that eli never played at such a high level, and that he played so poorly in 2010, and that this 2011 performance is a complete new eli, as u've so often done.
</P>


*</P>


Sometimes you can't win around here.</P>

and i cant believe no one else has found it ironic/hypocritical that the most notorious poster going around trying to ensure his philosophy of eli is accepted by all and that whenever some one holds a diff opinion, they're a homer, or misguided, or dont know football is the same guy going around acting as if he isnt the one thought policing people about eli manning, which he does whenever the chance arises...