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View Full Version : What will make the giants into a top rushing team again?



appodictic
06-17-2012, 04:27 PM
Typically the giants are a top rushing team. Last year we picked it up in the playoffs but were not doing well most of the regular season. What can we do this year to have multiple hundred yard rushing games.

Mercury
06-17-2012, 05:32 PM
The Giants were the top rushing team in the playoffs. The Oline was playing better by then. If we can do it against the playoff caliber teams, there is no reason why they can't be a top rushing team in the regular season.

Furthermore, the additions of Bennett and Wilson and the subtraction of KMac should improve our rushing game.

slipknottin
06-17-2012, 06:19 PM
better running backs = better running game

Giants were the worst open field running team in the league last year. Even if Bradshaw/Jacobs got past the line they got almost no yards after.

Look at Bradshaws stats compared to previous seasons, he had only 3 20+ yard runs. Compared to 2010 where he had 13 20+ yard runs and 2 40+ yarders.

Jacobs last year had 20+ yard run. In 2010 he had 10 20+ yard runs, and 1 40 yard run.


Giants added arguably the most explosive runner in the draft. A player who can hopefully add some open field yards and long runs.

Rat_bastich
06-17-2012, 06:23 PM
Bionic feet for Bradshaw and a good push to get to the second level of defenses. As said they didn't seem to break many long runs and seemed to hesitate at the line.

I think the team is motivated to get their running game going this year so it will probably return as a strength.

appodictic
06-17-2012, 08:03 PM
better running backs = better running game

Giants were the worst open field running team in the league last year. Even if Bradshaw/Jacobs got past the line they got almost no yards after.

Look at Bradshaws stats compared to previous seasons, he had only 3 20+ yard runs. Compared to 2010 where he had 13 20+ yard runs and 2 40+ yarders.

Jacobs last year had 20+ yard run. In 2010 he had 10 20+ yard runs, and 1 40 yard run.


Giants added arguably the most explosive runner in the draft. A player who can hopefully add some open field yards and long runs.

20+ yard runs are about the line getting you the first 5. You are not going to get the first 5 if you half back and line can not move people.

I think our o-line has to become a force again, they have to make real holes and move people off the line. I think petro's can be a larger part of this. I think hynoski can put on more weight and be more effective. I think baas should sit and booth should start.

ShakeNBake
06-17-2012, 08:16 PM
better running backs = better running game

Giants were the worst open field running team in the league last year. Even if Bradshaw/Jacobs got past the line they got almost no yards after.

Look at Bradshaws stats compared to previous seasons, he had only 3 20+ yard runs. Compared to 2010 where he had 13 20+ yard runs and 2 40+ yarders.

Jacobs last year had 20+ yard run. In 2010 he had 10 20+ yard runs, and 1 40 yard run.


Giants added arguably the most explosive runner in the draft. A player who can hopefully add some open field yards and long runs.

It won't matter if we have Barry Sanders incarnate back there as long as our o-line continues to perform like they did last yr.

miked1958
06-17-2012, 08:20 PM
Typically the giants are a top rushing team. Last year we picked it up in the playoffs but were not doing well most of the regular season. What can we do this year to have multiple hundred yard rushing games.
It will be better this year

slipknottin
06-17-2012, 08:26 PM
Most NFL people, coaches, evaluators, etc. will tell you that the back makes the OL, not the other way around.

If you have a great back, you dont need to have a very good OL to be productive.

Neverend
06-17-2012, 08:29 PM
David Wilson

ShakeNBake
06-17-2012, 08:30 PM
Most NFL people, coaches, evaluators, etc. will tell you that the back makes the OL, not the other way around.

If you have a great back, you dont need to have a very good OL to be productive.

Like who? Why do you constantly state your opinions as if they were facts?

slipknottin
06-17-2012, 08:38 PM
Like who? Why do you constantly state your opinions as if they were facts?


Greg Cosell. Who talks to more NFL people than anyone in the media.

He said in a tweet a while back that many nfl people believe a great back makes the OL, not the other way around.

Heres one of his tweets - "Interesting comments re: connection betwn RB/OL. Every coach I've talked to says the RB makes the OL, not the OL making the back."

Its not my opinion. Its the opinion of experts which I chose to believe.

appodictic
06-17-2012, 08:40 PM
Most NFL people, coaches, evaluators, etc. will tell you that the back makes the OL, not the other way around.

If you have a great back, you dont need to have a very good OL to be productive.

Yes but our offensive line was less then very good. They were bad. Watching my "road to XLVI" right now. Giants were second and goal at the one against the packers, they bring in jacobs. He gets hit by three guys 4 yards back of the LOS. This was not an isolated incident. No running back can make that o-line better.

They did not even particularly pass block well either. Eli just had incredible pocket presence.

ShakeNBake
06-17-2012, 08:42 PM
Like who? Why do you constantly state your opinions as if they were facts?


Greg Cosell. Who talks to more NFL people than anyone in the media.

He said in a tweet a while back that many nfl people believe a great back makes the OL, not the other way around.

Its not my opinion. Its the opinion of experts which I chose to believe.

Ok and many others say that the o-line is more important to the running game such as Schlereth. So again, you are not stating facts, but opinions.

slipknottin
06-17-2012, 08:42 PM
. He gets hit by three guys 4 yards back of the LOS. This was not an isolated incident. No running back can make that o-line better.

That in fact is exactly the point. A great HB would still find holes and gain yards. Barry Sanders had a horrible OL, yet was one of the most productive runners of all time.

Think Adrian Peterson has a good OL?

slipknottin
06-17-2012, 08:44 PM
[Ok and many others say that the o-line is more important to the running game such as Schlereth. So again, you are not stating facts, but opinions.


I didnt know Schlereth was an nfl coach or FO guy.

As i said - "Interesting comments re: connection betwn RB/OL. Every coach I've talked to says the RB makes the OL, not the OL making the back" - Greg Cosell

And again, if you feel a need to attack me instead of what I say then I have no need to discuss this further with you.

gmen0820
06-17-2012, 08:50 PM
If Bradshaw stays healthy, Wilson impresses, that is what will make the difference.

Also, Hynoski can be a really good blocking FB. I don't want to discount him in team rushing success. I just think it's gonna be a matter of our backs staying healthy/shining.

ShakeNBake
06-17-2012, 08:55 PM
[Ok and many others say that the o-line is more important to the running game such as Schlereth. So again, you are not stating facts, but opinions.


I didnt know Schlereth was an nfl coach or FO guy.

As i said - "Interesting comments re: connection betwn RB/OL. Every coach I've talked to says the RB makes the OL, not the OL making the back" - Greg Cosell

And again, if you feel a need to attack me instead of what I say then I have no need to discuss this further with you.

I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing out that you constantly disguise your opinion as fact which may confuse others on this board into believing what you are saying is actually factual. Anyway Schlereth was among many others who believe that o-line is more important to the running game than running backs which again is their opinion. You are missing the point again, as usual.

slipknottin
06-17-2012, 08:58 PM
I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing out that you constantly disguise your opinion as fact which may confuse others on this board into believing what you are saying is actually factual.

You will have to point out where I said "it is a fact". Because all I said was that most NFL people will tell you a back makes the OL. Which is true.


Anyway Schlereth was among many others who believe that o-line is more important to the running game than running backs which again is their opinion. You are missing the point again, as usual.


Well, he was a guard, so surely he thinks his job is the most important. But NFL coaches and evaluators do not agree with him.

appodictic
06-17-2012, 09:01 PM
. He gets hit by three guys 4 yards back of the LOS. This was not an isolated incident. No running back can make that o-line better.

That in fact is exactly the point. A great HB would still find holes and gain yards. Barry Sanders had a horrible OL, yet was one of the most productive runners of all time.

Think Adrian Peterson has a good OL?

Fair enough that a great running back could make an oline.

Lets look at the giants we have a stable set of linemen for years
O'hara and crew. We had multiple seasons with one or more thousand yard
rushers. We also lost hedge **** from a degenerative injury.


I am not buying that bradshaw went from a good yard per carry rusher 4.5 dismal 3.9 in a single season. And jacobs went from averaging 5.8 to 3.8. Also that stat on rushes over 20 yard thing that you said.

So two running backs broke down in a single year, and two other running backs ware, d'scott were not able to step up and take their job? This definitely says shackey o-line to me. We had so many negative yardage runs. I don't blame those on RB, I think any negative run is an oline issue.

slipknottin
06-17-2012, 09:06 PM
Again. That's the point. When you have average or below average backs, you need above average blocking for them to be successful.

Bradshaw is an above average back when healthy. But he is rarely healthy.

As for negative yard runs, shady McCoy led the league in those. Yet he was incredibly productive

ShakeNBake
06-17-2012, 09:08 PM
I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing out that you constantly disguise your opinion as fact which may confuse others on this board into believing what you are saying is actually factual.

You will have to point out where I said "it is a fact". Because all I said was that most NFL people will tell you a back makes the OL. Which is true.


Anyway Schlereth was among many others who believe that o-line is more important to the running game than running backs which again is their opinion. You are missing the point again, as usual.


Well, he was a guard, so surely he thinks his job is the most important. But NFL coaches and evaluators do not agree with him.


Most NFL people, coaches, evaluators, etc.
will tell you that the back makes the OL, not the other way around.

If you have a great back, you dont need to have a very good OL to be
productive.



That right there is projecting something as factual and not one's opinion, because you are claiming that all these people think this way when in reality you are just going off of what one guy said. As far as Schlereth is concerned it was him among many others saying that o-line is more important to the running game, and the point is that it is their opinion, just like those saying otherwise are stating their opinions.

jomo
06-17-2012, 09:14 PM
Most NFL people, coaches, evaluators, etc. will tell you that the back makes the OL, not the other way around. If you have a great back, you dont need to have a very good OL to be productive.If that's true, the RB also make the QB?</P>


I disagree with most NFL people, coaches, evaluators etc lol. The OL makes the running game and the passing game. (of course you need good running backs but not great running backs to take advantage)</P>

Mercury
06-17-2012, 09:27 PM
Personally, I'd rather have a great Oline with an average RB, than a great RB and an average Oline.

Breezely
06-17-2012, 10:48 PM
Hate to be the killjoy here, you guys were having so much fun. I believe in both. Great line execution and good running back skill and vision.

zigwontdieNYG
06-17-2012, 11:12 PM
im going to say any great rb can make an oline look better, but even barry couldnt make the detroit oline look good. i think i see his point with schlaereth though, coming from denver they just kept plugging rbs into the system with a solid oline and they produced 1000 yard runners constantly.

the progression of the line we put onto the field will definitely help out our year end rushing totals, as long as the injury bug doesn't rear its ugly head like it tends to.

i'm also very excited to see what this wilson kid has at the next level. time will tell.

gmen0820
06-17-2012, 11:13 PM
Personally, I'd rather have a great Oline with an average RB, than a great RB and an average Oline.
And that is very respectable. It's clock building vs time telling.

fourth&forever
06-18-2012, 08:34 PM
Put Boothe in for Baas on running downs.

gmen0820
06-19-2012, 09:51 AM
Put Boothe in for Baas on running downs.That's not a tipoff or anything.

Toadofsteel
06-19-2012, 10:03 AM
The final nail in the coffin will be if Brandon Jacobs has a resurgent year with SF... that would tell me the OLine is the problem more than the backs...

G-Man67
06-19-2012, 11:25 AM
last year we trailed in every reg. season game except Week 17 vs. Cowboys ... the key to racking up rushing yards is to play with the lead ... if you're behind, then ur gonna be chucking it</P>


for example, we had 172 rushing yards vs. Atlanta ... a game we led almost from start to finish</P>


the other piece of the puzzle is line chemistry ... we struggled with that earlyb/c ofsome new players like Baas and Beatty and Diehl changing positions</P>


then naturally RB health</P>


finally, RB big plays ... this may be where the rook Wilson can help ... you rip off 50+ on one carry and that quickly disguises a 2 or 3 yard avg. on other plays</P>

GMENAGAIN
06-19-2012, 11:32 AM
last year we trailed in every reg. season game except Week 17 vs. Cowboys ... the key to racking up rushing yards is to play with the lead ... if you're behind, then ur gonna be chucking it</P>


for example, we had 172 rushing yards vs. Atlanta ... a game we led almost from start to finish</P>


the other piece of the puzzle is line chemistry ... we struggled with that earlyb/c ofsome new players like Baas and Beatty and Diehl changing positions</P>


then naturally RB health</P>


finally, RB big plays ... this may be where the rook Wilson can help ... you rip off 50+ on one carry and that quickly disguises a 2 or 3 yard avg. on other plays</P>


</P>


Excellent points . . . . </P>

JesseJames
06-19-2012, 11:46 AM
last year we trailed in every reg. season game except Week 17 vs. Cowboys ... the key to racking up rushing yards is to play with the lead ... if you're behind, then ur gonna be chucking it</P>


for example, we had 172 rushing yards vs. Atlanta ... a game we led almost from start to finish</P>


the other piece of the puzzle is line chemistry ... we struggled with that early*b/c of*some new players like Baas and Beatty and Diehl changing positions</P>


then naturally RB health</P>


finally, RB big plays ... this may be where the rook Wilson can help ... you rip off 50+ on one carry and that quickly disguises a 2 or 3 yard avg. on other plays</P>

I agree with line chemistry and we certainly didn't have it last year and it showed. I'm not so sure we won't have the same problems this year due to Deihl moving to the right and maybe Booth to LG also Beatty is always one injury away from sitting down. This could all work out but the line is still in a flux..

jakegibbs
06-19-2012, 12:47 PM
Typically the giants are a top rushing team. Last year we picked it up in the playoffs but were not doing well most of the regular season. What can we do this year to have multiple hundred yard rushing games.


Upgrade the O line with a bunch of hogs like Riggins used to run behind. That would do it garanteed.

Diamondring
06-23-2012, 07:36 AM
As for being a great football mind, the O-line only brings a certain amount of protection because there are only five of them and the defense can send in any amount of defenders to attack the O-line. Extra blockers also help with the blocking to give the back extra help. The O-line and the extra blockers are not the only needs for a good running game. Plays help as well because it can help with having less defenders be at where the back is going. Usualy, a back has extra abilities like catching the ball etc. Slip is right that a good back is needed for a good running game since backs have different abiliies wich gives different results. Yet if the O-line, extra blockers and plays don't help take away defenders, then no back is going to have success.

chasjay
06-23-2012, 10:14 AM
I believe it has to be at least one, if not several, of the following factors. The play-calling, the talent and quick decision -making ability of the backs, and the performance of the O line. What else is there? If you assume that defenses have to respect our passing game and leave a reasonable number of defenders back for coverage (on average), I don't know of much else that can affect the running game.

So I guess my answer is better play by the O line and better execution and discipline by the RB's. I think we'll have both of those this year.

Obviously, these are simplistic "duh" type observations - but it is a simple question - on paper, that is.

chasjay
06-23-2012, 10:42 AM
The Giants were the top rushing team in the playoffs. The Oline was playing better by then. If we can do it against the playoff caliber teams, there is no reason why they can't be a top rushing team in the regular season.

Furthermore, the additions of Bennett and Wilson and the subtraction of KMac should improve our rushing game.




We ran the ball well in the playoffs, but we were the top rushing team in total yards because we played 4 games. We were 6th in average rush yards per game for the playoffs at 116.5, which is leaps and bounds better than our regular season average of 89.2. Our playoff average of 116.5 put us in the middle of the 12 playoff teams and would have put us exactly in the middle of all 32 teams for the regular season. I'm hoping we can get up to the 125 -130 ypg range for 2012. That should be top ten or very near it.

benched
06-23-2012, 11:06 AM
. He gets hit by three guys 4 yards back of the LOS. This was not an isolated incident. No running back can make that o-line better.

That in fact is exactly the point. A great HB would still find holes and gain yards. Barry Sanders had a horrible OL, yet was one of the most productive runners of all time.

Think Adrian Peterson has a good OL?

There you go. Stating as fact that Lions OL was horrible. What do you base that on?

JesseJames
06-23-2012, 11:38 AM
. He gets hit by three guys 4 yards back of the LOS. This was not an isolated incident. No running back can make that o-line better.

That in fact is exactly the point. A great HB would still find holes and gain yards. Barry Sanders had a horrible OL, yet was one of the most productive runners of all time.

Think Adrian Peterson has a good OL?

There you go. Stating as fact that Lions OL was horrible. What do you base that on? if you don't like what Slip says then don't frustrate yourself by reading it, he's not going to change his opinion because you don't like what he says.....

Diamondring
06-23-2012, 04:14 PM
. He gets hit by three guys 4 yards back of the LOS. This was not an isolated incident. No running back can make that o-line better.

That in fact is exactly the point. A great HB would still find holes and gain yards. Barry Sanders had a horrible OL, yet was one of the most productive runners of all time.

Think Adrian Peterson has a good OL?

There you go. Stating as fact that Lions OL was horrible. What do you base that on?The best answere he can give you is that when any other back runs behind the same O-line, they hardly able to gain a yard.

gmen46
06-23-2012, 04:49 PM
. He gets hit by three guys 4 yards back of the LOS. This was not an isolated incident. No running back can make that o-line better.

That in fact is exactly the point. A great HB would still find holes and gain yards. Barry Sanders had a horrible OL, yet was one of the most productive runners of all time.

Think Adrian Peterson has a good OL?

There you go. Stating as fact that Lions OL was horrible. What do you base that on?

I believe if you bother to watch a 90's Lions game with Sanders running, you would not ask that question.

Diamondring
06-23-2012, 04:52 PM
. He gets hit by three guys 4 yards back of the LOS. This was not an isolated incident. No running back can make that o-line better.

That in fact is exactly the point. A great HB would still find holes and gain yards. Barry Sanders had a horrible OL, yet was one of the most productive runners of all time.

Think Adrian Peterson has a good OL?

There you go. Stating as fact that Lions OL was horrible. What do you base that on?

I believe if you bother to watch a 90's Lions game with Sanders running, you would not ask that question.He would also have to look at the other backs running behind the same O-line to make the evaluation.

davecrazy
06-23-2012, 05:13 PM
a good offensive line.

JMFP2
06-23-2012, 08:38 PM
David Wilson</P>


Agreed.</P>


Obviously, the offensive line needs to do it's job as well, and hopefully they can stay somewhat healthy this season. </P>


Last year, there was a lot of shuffling as guys got injured, and that hurts the effectiveness of the line. One of the reasons why the Diehl/Seubert/O'Hara/Snee/McKenzie line wasso effective was not only talent, but how long they stayed together in their respective spots.</P>