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RoanokeFan
06-27-2012, 02:54 PM
JOHN MARA REMINISCES ABOUT PICKING ELI OVER BEN (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/14826/mara-reminisces-about-picking-eli-over-ben)

"John Mara remembers the Giants organization being torn on who
to take days before the 2004 NFL Draft.

Eli Manning
or Ben Roethlisberger?

We all know what has happened
since. But it is always fun to look back and Mara fondly reminisced about
trading for Manning on WFAN radio on Tuesday.

"We went right to the last
day or two before the draft trying to decide between Eli and Ben Roethlisberger,
who obviously has been a great NFL quarterback as well," Mara said. "They both
have been brilliant. Really, the decision came down to one guy played in the
SEC, the best conference in the country, and the other guy played at Miami of
Ohio against obviously lesser competition."

"Also, [Manning] was on a
team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and he kind of
carried that team on his shoulder," Mara added. "We felt he was the better pick
for us, but obviously either way they both ended up being great players."


Mara also recounted how his father, Wellington Mara,
wasn't keen on paying such a high price to get Manning, who was taken first
overall by the Chargers. Wellington Mara had a soft spot for Kerry
Collins but the Giants ended up trading Philip Rivers
(taken fourth overall), their 2004 third-round pick and 2005 first and
fifth-round picks.

"It was not an easy decision," Mara said. "It was one
that even my father was against initially because he had such a strong feeling
for Kerry Collins, who had played so well for us and kind of resurrected his
career. I just felt like and Ernie Accorsi felt strongly also
that this guy had a rare talent and was worth taking a chance on."

Mara
admits he had some doubts early on when Manning struggled.

"I will tell
you there were times where I had some doubts," the Giants president and CEO
said. "I can remember so vividly the first minicamp practice that Eli was here
for. He just had a terrible day throwing the ball in a windy practice field out
here. It was going all over the place and he was surrounded by media and
cameras."

"I remember thinking to myself, I hope it gets better than
this," Mara added. "Because we just gave up half the franchise to get this guy
and he is throwing the ball all over the place."

Mara chuckled as he
recounted that. It's fun for the Giants to look back on everything seeing how it
all turned out.

"It really wasnít until the second half of the '04
season when he got into the games [and] he really struggled at first," Mara
said. "And then we had that final game of the '04 season when we beat Dallas at
home and he takes us down the field at the end of the game to win and that just
sort of kicked off his career for us."

"He certainly has had some ups
and downs since then," Mara added. "But I will take my chances with the ball in
his hand at the end the game every day."

GMENAGAIN
06-27-2012, 02:59 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>

Morehead State
06-27-2012, 03:12 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>

GMENAGAIN
06-27-2012, 03:14 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers? </P>

Morehead State
06-27-2012, 03:25 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers? </P>


</P>


I guess a lot of these GM's know who others like. I also suppose they would have been happy with Rivers as well. He did win a lot of big games in college. (and turned out to be a great pro). </P>


Those three guys represented a great QB first round. Best since the famous 83 draft.</P>

G-G-GMen420
06-27-2012, 03:33 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>


</P>


I guess a lot of these GM's know who others like.* I also suppose they would have been happy with Rivers as well.* He did win a lot of big games in college.* (and turned out to be a great pro).* </P>


Those three guys represented a great QB first round.* Best since the famous 83 draft.</P>
I was always under the impression that the trade was done before the pic and the chargers told us to draft Rivers over Ben
That's who they wanted

jakegibbs
06-27-2012, 03:52 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>

SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them & Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.

sg92
06-27-2012, 03:54 PM
So glad we got Eli. While he and Ben have both had great (possibly Hall of Fame) careers on the field, Eli is the better person by far, and will be a good ambassador for the team.

Morehead State
06-27-2012, 04:05 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers? </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them &amp; Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli. They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him. Which we did. Plus there was some egos at work. Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there. In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>

Roosevelt
06-27-2012, 04:20 PM
I wasn't aware John was a hater.

thomsoad
06-27-2012, 04:45 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them & Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli.* They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him.* Which we did.* Plus there was some egos at work.* Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there.* In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>

Accorsi did an interview with NFLN about it and according to the GM it went like this.

We were actually considering trading down to the Browns spot when SD actually took Manning with the 1st pick. Accorsi then was going to trade down with Cleveland and still thought he would get Big Ben with Clevelands pick and pick up a 3rd rounder. pi

But Accorsi thru the "grapevine" had heard that Cleveland was trying to move up to our spot so THEY could then muster up a trade for Eli.

So Acorsi said he decided to just stick with our original pick and take Big Ben if the Chargers wouldnt come to agreement (SD previously would only trade to our spot if we included Osi in the trade which Acorsi would NOT do). On draft day SD called us just before the Bucs (who picked one spot above us) and agreed to Accorsi original trade conditions on the event that we took Rivers with our pick. SD had Rivers as the #2 QB on their boards where obviously Ben was our #2 rated QB...it was really pretty interesting and straight from the GMs mouth.

NYGRealityCheck
06-27-2012, 05:07 PM
I can see why Wellington Mara had a soft spot for Kerry Collins.

Remember when Kerry Collins lit up the Vikings for 5 TDs in perhaps the one of the greatest dominant victories (41-0) at Giants Stadium in the 2000 NFC Championship game.

Wellington Mara went on the field, accepted the trophy, and gave a nice speech in front of the crowd and home viewers on TV. That was memorable. (talk about reminiscing...)

However, the Giants had to move on from Kerry Collins. Also remember, Archie did not want Eli to play for the unsuccessful Chargers team at that time. So, the Chargers weren't completely holding Eli hostage. I think with a bit of help from Archie's influence, the trade for Eli was made possible.

rainierjef
06-27-2012, 05:16 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>
i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened.

GMENAGAIN
06-27-2012, 05:20 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers? </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them &amp; Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli. They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him. Which we did. Plus there was some egos at work. Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there. In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>


Accorsi did an interview with NFLN about it and according to the GM it went like this. We were actually considering trading down to the Browns spot when SD actually took Manning with the 1st pick. Accorsi then was going to trade down with Cleveland and still thought he would get Big Ben with Clevelands pick and pick up a 3rd rounder. pi But Accorsi thru the "grapevine" had heard that Cleveland was trying to move up to our spot so THEY could then muster up a trade for Eli. So Acorsi said he decided to just stick with our original pick and take Big Ben if the Chargers wouldnt come to agreement (SD previously would only trade to our spot if we included Osi in the trade which Acorsi would NOT do). On draft day SD called us just before the Bucs (who picked one spot above us) and agreed to Accorsi original trade conditions on the event that we took Rivers with our pick. SD had Rivers as the #2 QB on their boards where obviously Ben was our #2 rated QB...it was really pretty interesting and straight from the GMs mouth.</P>


That's exactly the info that I was looking for. . . . .thanks! [B]</P>

giantsfan420
06-27-2012, 07:00 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>
i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened.

eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD.

Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli.
Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli...

Connor
06-27-2012, 07:21 PM
When SD drafted Eli Acorsi was on the phone with the Chargers saying what do they want for Eli.

SD said they wanted the Giants to take Rivers. Its in Eli Mannings biography and Accorsi talked about the whole thing. The giants were really skeptical because even if they drafted Rivers, there was no gurantee Chargers would agree to trade and they could back out at any point and giants would be stuck with a guy they didnt want. Giants ended up trust SD enough, agreeing to trade. Then drafting Rivers and the trade went through a little bit later.

Connor
06-27-2012, 07:24 PM
I can see why Wellington Mara had a soft spot for Kerry Collins.

Remember when Kerry Collins lit up the Vikings for 5 TDs in perhaps the one of the greatest dominant victories (41-0) at Giants Stadium in the 2000 NFC Championship game.

Wellington Mara went on the field, accepted the trophy, and gave a nice speech in front of the crowd and home viewers on TV. That was memorable. (talk about reminiscing...)

However, the Giants had to move on from Kerry Collins. Also remember, Archie did not want Eli to play for the unsuccessful Chargers team at that time. So, the Chargers weren't completely holding Eli hostage. I think with a bit of help from Archie's influence, the trade for Eli was made possible.

Thats not why, Archie said later on he and Eli did not want him to play for SD because Chargers couldnt afford Eli. Which ended up being true because Rivers didnt sign at all pretty much all through training camp, meanwhile giants and eli worked something out nearly right away.

SD had a # in their mind and werent going to budge, thats why Brees ended up starting for the 2 years, because Rivers never got in their to learn the offense, because he never had a contract. He held out for a very very long time before eventually signing. Many say that actually cost him playing early.

GMENAGAIN
06-27-2012, 07:27 PM
I can see why Wellington Mara had a soft spot for Kerry Collins. Remember when Kerry Collins lit up the Vikings for 5 TDs in perhaps the one of the greatest dominant victories (41-0) at Giants Stadium in the 2000 NFC Championship game. Wellington Mara went on the field, accepted the trophy, and gave a nice speech in front of the crowd and home viewers on TV. That was memorable. (talk about reminiscing...) However, the Giants had to move on from Kerry Collins. Also remember, Archie did not want Eli to play for the unsuccessful Chargers team at that time. So, the Chargers weren't completely holding Eli hostage. I think with a bit of help from Archie's influence, the trade for Eli was made possible. Thats not why, <FONT size=4>Archie said later on he and Eli did not want him to play for SD because Chargers couldnt afford Eli.</FONT> Which ended up being true because Rivers didnt sign at all pretty much all through training camp, meanwhile giants and eli worked something out nearly right away. SD had a # in their mind and werent going to budge, thats why Brees ended up starting for the 2 years, because Rivers never got in their to learn the offense, because he never had a contract. He held out for a very very long time before eventually signing. Many say that actually cost him playing early.</P>


Absolutely untrue.</P>

NYGRealityCheck
06-27-2012, 08:11 PM
I can see why Wellington Mara had a soft spot for Kerry Collins.

Remember when Kerry Collins lit up the Vikings for 5 TDs in perhaps the one of the greatest dominant victories (41-0) at Giants Stadium in the 2000 NFC Championship game.

Wellington Mara went on the field, accepted the trophy, and gave a nice speech in front of the crowd and home viewers on TV. That was memorable. (talk about reminiscing...)

However, the Giants had to move on from Kerry Collins. Also remember, Archie did not want Eli to play for the unsuccessful Chargers team at that time. So, the Chargers weren't completely holding Eli hostage. I think with a bit of help from Archie's influence, the trade for Eli was made possible.

Thats not why, Archie said later on he and Eli did not want him to play for SD because Chargers couldnt afford Eli. Which ended up being true because Rivers didnt sign at all pretty much all through training camp, meanwhile giants and eli worked something out nearly right away.

SD had a # in their mind and werent going to budge, thats why Brees ended up starting for the 2 years, because Rivers never got in their to learn the offense, because he never had a contract. He held out for a very very long time before eventually signing. Many say that actually cost him playing early.

Source?

I'll list one of many sources confirming what I stated.

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/EManning/Eli_bio.html

"Afraid the Chargers might be the current-day version of his Saints, Archie made it clear that he didnít want his youngest son stuck on a loser. He instructed Eliís agent, Tom Condon, to call San Diego general manager A.J. Smith and advise him against taking Eli. "

GIANTSACK
06-27-2012, 10:15 PM
we wouldnt have had to give anything Up if conway didnt make the fg in OT against the jets.. .. Wouldve had the worst record in football. Probably couldnt afford all our picks anyway. Oh well who cares we have ELI and the rest of the team dont.. Im happy

GMENAGAIN
06-27-2012, 10:30 PM
we wouldnt have had to give anything Up if conway didnt make the fg in OT against the jets.. .. Wouldve had the worst record in football. Probably couldnt afford all our picks anyway. Oh well who cares we have ELI and the rest of the team dont.. Im happy</P>


Good memory . . . . I had forgotten that the teams with the top 4 picks in that draft all had 4-12 records. </P>

miked1958
06-27-2012, 10:54 PM
Im just glad it all worked out the way it did. I remember where i was when we picked. In a parking lot of a Pool Chemical supply Company listening to the draft on the radio. My wife wanted me to come into the store to help her with the stuff she bought. I was like we are about to pick leave me alone. I will tell you I was a Benn supporter. I had seen him play in the Gmac Bowl Live and was very impressed with him. Really wanted the Gmen to draft him and all the talk in his Camp was that he and his family really wanted the Giants to draft him. </P>


I also live down here in the south and was able to watch Eli in alot of his games. Was not overly impressed with him, however he held his own in a very tough conference. That and the fact of who his brother and Dad were were enough for me.I remember hitting the steering wheel when we took Rivers over Benn. At that point Eli was not an option as he was already taken by SD. I was like Phillip Rivers?????? Who the heck is he????? I am like yelling and the windows are down and people are walking by in the parking lot thinking i was crazy. I had seen lots of Benn on TV and thought if we couldnt get Eli then Benn was the next best thing. For me it was kind of a toss up. I liked Benns size and how he was able to throw down smaller defenders trying to sack him. but also loved Eli...</P>


When I heard we made a Trade i was THRILLED and didnt care what we had given up to get Eli. I was estactic</P>

Rat_bastich
06-28-2012, 01:26 AM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>


</P>


I guess a lot of these GM's know who others like.* I also suppose they would have been happy with Rivers as well.* He did win a lot of big games in college.* (and turned out to be a great pro).* </P>


Those three guys represented a great QB first round.* Best since the famous 83 draft.</P>
I was always under the impression that the trade was done before the pic and the chargers told us to draft Rivers over Ben
That's who they wanted

This is kind of what I believe. My take on it is that at the time the first round was 15 minutes a pick. San Diego was already aware that Manning did not want to play for them, but took their chances anyways. I believe there was an interview with Archie Manning just after the pick or Eli or even Peyton...can't remember which. San Diego probably realized how adamant the Mannings were and came to the conclusion they just wasted a pick.

Most likely they contacted the Giants or the Giants contacted them to initiate a possible draft trade and they probably had all the picks worked out...the only stipulation left was probably the Giants taking Rivers. There was about 30-45 minutes in between the pick of Manning and Rivers. Plenty of time to create the framework of a deal.


That is my belief but who knows.

nygfanmaybe
06-28-2012, 06:53 AM
EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them

Please, do not confuse them further. It was Eli who pulled an Elway...impossible the other way around.

Also, while reading this thread and the part about having doubts about Eli early on...as we all did...a quote from Eli popped into my head. I remember his struggles in the 2nd half of the 1st season, and I remember reading where he was talking to his dad on the phone and said, "Nobody's open!"

nygsb42champs
06-28-2012, 08:25 AM
Thankfully for us they where able to get Wellington to see it there way.

Morehead State
06-28-2012, 08:51 AM
Just consulted the Ernie book "The GM". Read it on a plane back from Hawaii on SB Sunday 2008. Got in at 3 PM so there was plenty of time. I was reminded of the story as told by Ernie.</P>


Page 88 in case your interested.</P>


They were tipped by a writer that SD was picking Eli. They had already talked earlier about a deal for a 1st and Osi, which was a deal killer for Ernie. He had a deal with Cleveland to trade down and then draft Ben. Then AJ called Ernie while the Giants were on the clock after, Eli, Gallery and Fitz were already off the board. They made a deal for draft picks and Rivers, so the Giants drafted Rivers and made the deal.</P>


So the drafting of Rivers was pre arranged by AJ and Ernie, but just a few minutes before the pick.</P>

thomsoad
06-28-2012, 09:00 AM
Just consulted the Ernie book "The GM".* Read it on a plane back from Hawaii on SB Sunday 2008.* Got in at 3 PM so there was plenty of time.** I was reminded of the story as told by Ernie.</P>


Page 88 in case your interested.</P>


They were tipped by a writer that SD was picking Eli.* They had already talked earlier about a deal for a 1st and Osi, which was a deal killer for Ernie.* He had a deal with Cleveland to trade down and then draft Ben.* Then AJ called Ernie while the Giants were on the clock after, Eli, Gallery and Fitz were already off the board.* They made a deal for draft picks and Rivers, so the Giants drafted Rivers and made the deal.</P>


So the drafting of Rivers was pre arranged by AJ and Ernie, but just a few minutes before the pick.</P>

And here you were all doubting me. :D

Morehead State
06-28-2012, 09:11 AM
Just consulted the Ernie book "The GM". Read it on a plane back from Hawaii on SB Sunday 2008. Got in at 3 PM so there was plenty of time. I was reminded of the story as told by Ernie.</P>


Page 88 in case your interested.</P>


They were tipped by a writer that SD was picking Eli. They had already talked earlier about a deal for a 1st and Osi, which was a deal killer for Ernie. He had a deal with Cleveland to trade down and then draft Ben. Then AJ called Ernie while the Giants were on the clock after, Eli, Gallery and Fitz were already off the board. They made a deal for draft picks and Rivers, so the Giants drafted Rivers and made the deal.</P>


So the drafting of Rivers was pre arranged by AJ and Ernie, but just a few minutes before the pick.</P>


And here you were all doubting me. :D</P>


I won't bore you with the "stopped clock" analogy.</P>


Hahahaha!!!!</P>

GMENAGAIN
06-28-2012, 09:50 AM
Just consulted the Ernie book "The GM". Read it on a plane back from Hawaii on SB Sunday 2008. Got in at 3 PM so there was plenty of time. I was reminded of the story as told by Ernie.</P>


Page 88 in case your interested.</P>


They were tipped by a writer that SD was picking Eli. They had already talked earlier about a deal for a 1st and Osi, which was a deal killer for Ernie. He had a deal with Cleveland to trade down and then draft Ben. Then AJ called Ernie while the Giants were on the clock after, Eli, Gallery and Fitz were already off the board. They made a deal for draft picks and Rivers, so the Giants drafted Rivers and made the deal.</P>


So the drafting of Rivers was pre arranged by AJ and Ernie, but just a few minutes before the pick.</P>


</P>


That makes much more sense than the idea that the Giants picked Rivers because of rumors that SD liked him . . . </P>


Thanks for the info.</P>

burier
06-28-2012, 12:54 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>
i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened.

eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD.

Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli.
Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli...

Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top.

Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland.

"My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either."

I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense.

There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did. They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.

BeatYale
06-28-2012, 01:12 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>

The Chargers wanted Rivers. If there was no trade, we would have drafted Big Ben. Ernie Acorsi mentioned this.

Morehead State
06-28-2012, 01:21 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did. They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


Already been covered. They had no deal before the draft. The deal was reached when the Giants were on the clock.</P>


My reference is page 88 of "The GM". </P>

burier
06-28-2012, 01:28 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did. They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


Already been covered.* They had no deal before the draft.* The deal was reached when the Giants were on the clock.</P>


My reference is page 88 of* "The GM".* </P>

As stated....ILLEGAL to have a deal in place prior to the draft...there for any refrence will state that there was no deal as anything to the contrary would be an admission of guilt.

Morehead State
06-28-2012, 01:32 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did. They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


Already been covered. They had no deal before the draft. The deal was reached when the Giants were on the clock.</P>


My reference is page 88 of "The GM". </P>


As stated....ILLEGAL to have a deal in place prior to the draft...there for any refrence will state that there was no deal as anything to the contrary would be an admission of guilt.</P>


Well I guess if you believe that Ernie was lying.....</P>


He was very specific about turning down the offer which included Osi. If they had a deal in place, why didn't they just trade the pick before the draft instead of waiting until the Giants were on the clock?</P>


Your scenario makes absolutely no sense.</P>

GMENAGAIN
06-28-2012, 01:33 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>

burier
06-28-2012, 01:43 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules?* Link?</P>

Are you being serious?

GMENAGAIN
06-28-2012, 01:51 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes. Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>

Morehead State
06-28-2012, 01:57 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes. Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


</P>


I actually looked up the draft rules and couldn't find anything about it.</P>

dezzzR
06-28-2012, 02:04 PM
JOHN MARA REMINISCES ABOUT PICKING ELI OVER BEN (http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/14826/mara-reminisces-about-picking-eli-over-ben)

"John Mara remembers the Giants organization being torn on who
to take days before the 2004 NFL Draft.

Eli Manning
or Ben Roethlisberger?

We all know what has happened
since. But it is always fun to look back and Mara fondly reminisced about
trading for Manning on WFAN radio on Tuesday.

"We went right to the last
day or two before the draft trying to decide between Eli and Ben Roethlisberger,
who obviously has been a great NFL quarterback as well," Mara said. "They both
have been brilliant. Really, the decision came down to one guy played in the
SEC, the best conference in the country, and the other guy played at Miami of
Ohio against obviously lesser competition."

<u>"Also, [Manning] was on a
team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and he kind of
carried that team on his shoulder," Mara added.</u> "We felt he was the better pick
for us, but obviously either way they both ended up being great players."


Mara also recounted how his father, Wellington Mara,
wasn't keen on paying such a high price to get Manning, who was taken first
overall by the Chargers. Wellington Mara had a soft spot for Kerry
Collins but the Giants ended up trading Philip Rivers
(taken fourth overall), their 2004 third-round pick and 2005 first and
fifth-round picks.

"It was not an easy decision," Mara said. "It was one
that even my father was against initially because he had such a strong feeling
for Kerry Collins, who had played so well for us and kind of resurrected his
career. I just felt like and Ernie Accorsi felt strongly also
that this guy had a rare talent and was worth taking a chance on."

Mara
admits he had some doubts early on when Manning struggled.

"I will tell
you there were times where I had some doubts," the Giants president and CEO
said. "I can remember so vividly the first minicamp practice that Eli was here
for. He just had a terrible day throwing the ball in a windy practice field out
here. It was going all over the place and he was surrounded by media and
cameras."

"I remember thinking to myself, I hope it gets better than
this," Mara added. "Because we just gave up half the franchise to get this guy
and he is throwing the ball all over the place."

Mara chuckled as he
recounted that. It's fun for the Giants to look back on everything seeing how it
all turned out.

"It really wasnít until the second half of the '04
season when he got into the games [and] he really struggled at first," Mara
said. "And then we had that final game of the '04 season when we beat Dallas at
home and he takes us down the field at the end of the game to win and that just
sort of kicked off his career for us."

"He certainly has had some ups
and downs since then," Mara added. "But I will take my chances with the ball in
his hand at the end the game every day."
Uh oh.......

Nice article. Thanks RF

gumby742
06-28-2012, 02:08 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes. Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


</P>


I actually looked up the draft rules and couldn't find anything about it.</P>


</P>


For whatever reason, I found this to be really funny.</P>

thomsoad
06-28-2012, 02:09 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules?* Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes.* Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


</P>


I actually looked up the draft rules and couldn't find anything about it.</P>

As dumb as this rule would initially sound (if it even exists) it does kinda make sense from a marketing strategy.

NFL loves the drama of draft day and who the team picks. Draft day would suddenly lose alot of relevance if you couldnt trust the player your team picked was still on your roster a week after draft day.

GMENAGAIN
06-28-2012, 02:10 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes. Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


</P>


I actually looked up the draft rules and couldn't find anything about it.</P>


</P>


Me too.</P>


And I don't understand why it would be prohibited. The only scenario where it would happen is ifa team that is on the clock is discussing a trade involving that pick but can't getthe tradefinalized before their allotted time to pick runs out. (Otherwise, the team would just trade the pick). Not sure why the NFL would need to prohibit that type of deal . . ..</P>

burier
06-28-2012, 02:12 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules?* Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes.* Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>

ok. I'll have to look,

GMENAGAIN
06-28-2012, 02:13 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes. Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


</P>


I actually looked up the draft rules and couldn't find anything about it.</P>


As dumb as this rule would initially sound (if it even exists) it does kinda make sense from a marketing strategy. NFL loves the drama of draft day and who the team picks. Draft day would suddenly lose alot of relevance if you couldnt trust the player your team picked was still on your roster a week after draft day.</P>


But the rule that you are referring to would prevent a team from trading a player after they draft him. </P>


The alleged rule that the poster is referring to prohibits one team from drafting a player for another team. </P>


</P>

Big Blue in SD
06-28-2012, 02:59 PM
Here's the theory that I heard about Eli not wanting to play for the Chargers.

Eli wanted to play for the University of Indiana so his parents could watch him play on Saturday and Peyton play for the Colts on Sunday.

The head coach of Indiana was Cam Cameron who didn't want Eli. Eli ended up going to Ole' Miss and he ended up being the #1 prospect heading into the draft.

The Chargers had the first pick, but low and behold their offensive coordinator was Cam Cameron.

I have no idea if this is valid, it's just a theory that I heard.

GMENAGAIN
06-28-2012, 03:34 PM
Here's the theory that I heard about Eli not wanting to play for the Chargers. Eli wanted to play for the University of Indiana so his parents could watch him play on Saturday and Peyton play for the Colts on Sunday. The head coach of Indiana was Cam Cameron who didn't want Eli. Eli ended up going to Ole' Miss and he ended up being the #1 prospect heading into the draft. The Chargers had the first pick, but low and behold their offensive coordinator was Cam Cameron. I have no idea if this is valid, it's just a theory that I heard.</P>


Very interesting . . . . . </P>

jakegibbs
06-28-2012, 03:42 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them & Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli.* They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him.* Which we did.* Plus there was some egos at work.* Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there.* In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>

So when everyone got what they wanted you're saying the Giants wanted a SB MVP QB & SD wanted to stay the status quo. hmmmm........

gumby742
06-28-2012, 03:48 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers? </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them &amp; Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli. They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him. Which we did. Plus there was some egos at work. Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there. In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>


So when everyone got what they wanted you're saying the Giants wanted a SB MVP QB &amp; SD wanted to stay the status quo. hmmmm........</P>


No. SD went from a losing, black hole, low expectation organisationto a successful one. I'd say the trade worked out well for both sides.</P>

jakegibbs
06-28-2012, 03:51 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them & Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli.* They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him.* Which we did.* Plus there was some egos at work.* Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there.* In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>


So when everyone got what they wanted you're saying the Giants wanted a SB MVP QB & SD wanted to stay the status quo. hmmmm........</P>


No.* SD went from a losing, black hole, low expectation organisation*to a successful one.* I'd say the trade worked out well for both sides.</P>

They already had the #2 2011 top 100 NFL player on the team so what black hole at QB were they trying to climb out of?

gumby742
06-28-2012, 04:00 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers? </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them &amp; Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli. They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him. Which we did. Plus there was some egos at work. Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there. In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>


So when everyone got what they wanted you're saying the Giants wanted a SB MVP QB &amp; SD wanted to stay the status quo. hmmmm........</P>


No. SD went from a losing, black hole, low expectation organisationto a successful one. I'd say the trade worked out well for both sides.</P>


They already had the #2 2011 top 100 NFL player on the team so what black hole at QB were they trying to climb out of?</P>


Ok? I'm not sure why a bad organisation having a good player means anything.</P>

jakegibbs
06-28-2012, 04:06 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them & Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli.* They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him.* Which we did.* Plus there was some egos at work.* Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there.* In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>


So when everyone got what they wanted you're saying the Giants wanted a SB MVP QB & SD wanted to stay the status quo. hmmmm........</P>


No.* SD went from a losing, black hole, low expectation organisation*to a successful one.* I'd say the trade worked out well for both sides.</P>


They already had the #2 2011 top 100 NFL player on the team so what black hole at QB were they trying to climb out of?</P>


Ok?* I'm not sure why a bad organisation having a good player means anything.</P>

Welll I don't see how trading Eli for Rivers when they already had Brees got them out of the black hole either.

gumby742
06-28-2012, 04:09 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers? </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them &amp; Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli. They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him. Which we did. Plus there was some egos at work. Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there. In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>


So when everyone got what they wanted you're saying the Giants wanted a SB MVP QB &amp; SD wanted to stay the status quo. hmmmm........</P>


No. SD went from a losing, black hole, low expectation organisationto a successful one. I'd say the trade worked out well for both sides.</P>


They already had the #2 2011 top 100 NFL player on the team so what black hole at QB were they trying to climb out of?</P>


Ok? I'm not sure why a bad organisation having a good player means anything.</P>


Welll I don't see how trading Eli for Rivers when they already had Brees got them out of the black hole either.</P>


At the time, Brees wasn't Brees and wasn't seen as the answer at QB. Otherwise, they wouldn't have drafted Eli. With Rivers, they got a great QB AND a hoard of draft picks they used to make their team better.</P>

GMENAGAIN
06-28-2012, 04:10 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes. Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


ok. I'll have to look,</P>


Cricket . . . . Cricket . . . . </P>

burier
06-28-2012, 04:15 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules?* Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes.* Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


ok. I'll have to look,</P>


Cricket . . . . Cricket . . . . </P>

Cricket cricket my *** dude.

What do you ever offer to the conversation? I don't see a NFL Draft rule book on line What's that mean? That I made something up?

But the funny thing is this was discussed on ESPN immediately following the trade that draft day during the telecast. So in all honesty maybe you should do you own damn homework because I don't have to lie and I'm not going to be called out because I actually pay attention and retain information.

thomsoad
06-28-2012, 04:53 PM
Here's the theory that I heard about Eli not wanting to play for the Chargers. Eli wanted to play for the University of Indiana so his parents could watch him play on Saturday and Peyton play for the Colts on Sunday. The head coach of Indiana was Cam Cameron who didn't want Eli. Eli ended up going to Ole' Miss and he ended up being the #1 prospect heading into the draft. The Chargers had the first pick, but low and behold their offensive coordinator was Cam Cameron. I have no idea if this is valid, it's just a theory that I heard.</P>


Very interesting . . . . . </P>

Not sure if it fits that neatly...the one wrinkle you got is that Cam while complimenting Flacco said Flacco reminds him alot of Eli Manning. So why would he compliment his QB by comparing to a QB he doesnt like?

Big Blue in SD
06-28-2012, 05:14 PM
Maybe Cam Cameron did like Eli but he was loyal to Antwaan Randle El, who was his starting QB at the time.

Maybe he didn't like Eli at the time, but since Eli has solidified himself as an elite QB in the NFL suddenly his opinion has changed.

Who knows?

GMENAGAIN
06-28-2012, 08:45 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes. Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


ok. I'll have to look,</P>


Cricket . . . . Cricket . . . . </P>


Cricket cricket my *** dude. What do you ever offer to the conversation? I don't see a NFL Draft rule book on line <FONT size=4>What's that mean? That I made something up?</FONT> But the funny thing is this was discussed on ESPN immediately following the trade that draft day during the telecast. So in all honesty maybe you should do you own damn homework because I don't have to lie and I'm not going to be called out because I actually pay attention and retain information.</P>


That's exactly what it means . . . . and also that you're full of ****.</P>

buffyblue
06-28-2012, 10:12 PM
I donít know if this is true or just a rumor I ehard that Eli didnít want to play for SD no matter what because Peyton had wnated them to trade with Indy so they could have drafted him to SD.

Anyone know anything about if this holds any validity?

Drez
06-28-2012, 10:14 PM
I donít know if this is true or just a rumor I ehard that Eli didnít want to play for SD no matter what because Peyton had wnated them to trade with Indy so they could have drafted him to SD.

Anyone know anything about if this holds any validity?
No. That it is not true at all.

buffyblue
06-28-2012, 10:47 PM
I donít know if this is true or just a rumor I ehard that Eli didnít want to play for SD no matter what because Peyton had wnated them to trade with Indy so they could have drafted him to SD.

Anyone know anything about if this holds any validity?
No. That it is not true at all.


OK. Thanks. I figured folks on here would know.

Neverend
06-28-2012, 10:55 PM
Wonder how san diego fans feel about Eli

last years offseason on these boards, there seemed to be "we should've drafted rivers" threads. wonder if chargers fans wish they shouldve kept eli

Drez
06-28-2012, 11:00 PM
I donít know if this is true or just a rumor I ehard that Eli didnít want to play for SD no matter what because Peyton had wnated them to trade with Indy so they could have drafted him to SD.

Anyone know anything about if this holds any validity?
No. That it is not true at all.


OK. Thanks. I figured folks on here would know.
If anything Peyton's and Archie's dealings with SD, along with some things they heard from Leaf after he was drafted, made the Mannings all the more adamant that Eli should not play there. All in all, they came away with the impression that the Chargers were not a well run organization and it would be difficult for Eli to win a championship there.

burier
06-29-2012, 09:53 AM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules?* Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes.* Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


ok. I'll have to look,</P>


Cricket . . . . Cricket . . . . </P>


Cricket cricket my *** dude. What do you ever offer to the conversation? I don't see a NFL Draft rule book on line <FONT size=4>What's that mean? That I made something up?</FONT> But the funny thing is this was discussed on ESPN immediately following the trade that draft day during the telecast. So in all honesty maybe you should do you own damn homework because I don't have to lie and I'm not going to be called out because I actually pay attention and retain information.</P>


That's exactly what it means . . . . and also that you're full of ****.</P>

God you're an idiot.

You're right now suggesting on the record that you believe that there are no rules which govern the NFL draft ...and then you have the nerve to say I'm full of ****.

Look man. Gass up and try again. You're outclassed here.

NYG 5
06-29-2012, 09:55 AM
idiots, Eli didn't want to play in SD because he can't swim. just stfu about it already

buffyblue
06-29-2012, 10:19 AM
idiots, Eli didn't want to play in SD because he can't swim. just stfu about it already


Eli Manning can't swim?

TuckYou
06-29-2012, 10:20 AM
Wonder how san diego fans feel about Eli

last years offseason on these boards, there seemed to be "we should've drafted rivers" threads. wonder if chargers fans wish they shouldve kept eli

I've been to San Diego a few times (but before last season), and they were telling me they were happy and loved Eli for being a weasel and helping their franchise become one of the top teams in the NFL. Most feel rivers is the better qb.

GMENAGAIN
06-29-2012, 10:28 AM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand. We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him. We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules? Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes. Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


ok. I'll have to look,</P>


Cricket . . . . Cricket . . . . </P>


Cricket cricket my *** dude. What do you ever offer to the conversation? I don't see a NFL Draft rule book on line <FONT size=4>What's that mean? That I made something up?</FONT> But the funny thing is this was discussed on ESPN immediately following the trade that draft day during the telecast. So in all honesty maybe you should do you own damn homework because I don't have to lie and I'm not going to be called out because I actually pay attention and retain information.</P>


That's exactly what it means . . . . and also that you're full of ****.</P>


God you're an idiot. You're right now suggesting on the record that you believe that there are no rules which govern the NFL draft ...and then you have the nerve to say I'm full of ****. Look man. Gass up and try again. You're outclassed here.</P>


LOL . . . you obnoxiously told other posters that their descriptions of theEli trade (which were based on direct quotes from EA's book)could not possibly have happened because that would have been "ILLEGAL" under NFL Draft rules,and then you were unable tolocate this alleged rule or any mention of it whatsoever on the entire internet.</P>


And I'm the one who's outclassed . . . . . . </P>

burier
06-29-2012, 10:48 AM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


i might be wrong but wasn't it because eli said he did not want to play for SD and that he was going to sit out the season if they took him? im sketchy on what exactly happened. eli had made it clear before the draft even occurred that he would not play for SD. he said if SD drafted him and refused to work something out, he would retire, go back to school to become a lawyer. i believe he even stated that after being drafted by SD. Now in regards to us drafting Rivers and whether or not we knew SD would trade Eli, I'm not positive of what happened. I do know that Archie had a meeting with the owner of SD leading up to the draft, and that the SD owner leaked info from their conversation to the papers, which created even more of a distaste for SD by Eli. Imo, SD drafted Eli bc he was the best player and bc they knew that if Eli wouldnt play for them, they could make a trade. And iirc, everyone knew how enamored with Eli EA was bc of the whole Elway situation and how EA was GM or something for the Colts and that Elway pulled an Eli and said he refused to play for them. and how EA said Eli reminded him of Elway and that franchise QBs are so rare to come by at the level of the mannings that SD had to have known, whether stated or not, that NY would trade for Eli... Never heard that lawyer story and it sounds a bit over the top. Eli has said that he wouldn't play for either San Diego or Cleveland. "My agent called me and said good news. It looks like there's gonna be a deal done to get you out of San Diego. Bad news is it looks like they're trying to send you to cleveland and we're not playing there either." I do believe that the Giants and Chargers worked the deal out prior to the draft. It just makes sense. <FONT size=4>There are rules against "drafting for another team" Which is essentially what the Chargers and Giants did.</FONT> They secured our QB and we secured their QB. So it makes sense that EA and everyone involved denies it.</P>


What rules?* Link?</P>


Are you being serious?</P>


Yes.* Where can one find the "rules" that you are referring to?</P>


ok. I'll have to look,</P>


Cricket . . . . Cricket . . . . </P>


Cricket cricket my *** dude. What do you ever offer to the conversation? I don't see a NFL Draft rule book on line <FONT size=4>What's that mean? That I made something up?</FONT> But the funny thing is this was discussed on ESPN immediately following the trade that draft day during the telecast. So in all honesty maybe you should do you own damn homework because I don't have to lie and I'm not going to be called out because I actually pay attention and retain information.</P>


That's exactly what it means . . . . and also that you're full of ****.</P>


God you're an idiot. You're right now suggesting on the record that you believe that there are no rules which govern the NFL draft ...and then you have the nerve to say I'm full of ****. Look man. Gass up and try again. You're outclassed here.</P>


LOL . . . you obnoxiously told other posters that their descriptions of the*Eli trade (which were based on direct quotes from EA's book)*could not possibly have happened because that would have been "ILLEGAL" under NFL Draft rules,*and then you were unable to*locate this alleged rule or any mention of it whatsoever on the entire internet.</P>


And I'm the one who's outclassed . . . . . . *</P>

lol Since you obviously can't read with comprehension...I'd say yeah...you're pretty damn outclassed.

But I'm generally a nice guy so lets review.

I suggested that Sandiego drafted Eli Manning based on a deal that had been worked out PRIOR to the draft where intern the Giants would draft Rivers for the Sole purpose of trading Rivers to Sandiego for Eli Manning as stipulated in the "gentleman's agreement" realized PRIOR to the draft.

This sort of deal is against NFL rules. This is my personal conspiracy theory.

Morehead pointed to a quote from EA about how the deal went down and I simply stated that had the deal worked out the way I suggested EA WOULD NEVER SAY SO...as it my scenario is against the rules and EA saying it went down that way would be an admission of guilt.

So I understand your're butt hurts because I said something mean about Bill Belichick but maybe get a hold of Hooked on Phonics book or something before you start trying to me out.

GMENAGAIN
06-29-2012, 10:58 AM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football. Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those playersin a trade after the picks were made? If they had a deal before thedraft, they would have just agreed toswap the picks, much like almost every otherdraft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reasonthat no such rule exists. </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claimwould prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters? </P>

burier
06-29-2012, 11:11 AM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football.* Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those players*in a trade after the picks were made?* If they had a deal before the*draft, they would have just agreed to*swap the picks, much like almost every other*draft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reason*that no such rule exists.* </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claim*would prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters?* *</P>

Its like talking to a 4 year old.

If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Not Mention Both Arizona and Oakland could have pulled a fast one and drafted QB prior to number 4 getting on the clock.

Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT!

With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place.

As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science.

Now please run along.

GMENAGAIN
06-29-2012, 11:29 AM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football. Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those playersin a trade after the picks were made? If they had a deal before thedraft, they would have just agreed toswap the picks, much like almost every otherdraft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reasonthat no such rule exists. </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claimwould prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters? </P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade. The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet. </P>


</P>

burier
06-29-2012, 11:44 AM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football.* Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those players*in a trade after the picks were made?* If they had a deal before the*draft, they would have just agreed to*swap the picks, much like almost every other*draft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reason*that no such rule exists.* </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claim*would prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters?* *</P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade.* The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet.*** </P>


*</P>

(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.)

Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link?

And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules.

See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence.

Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.

GMENAGAIN
06-29-2012, 12:19 PM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football. Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those playersin a trade after the picks were made? If they had a deal before thedraft, they would have just agreed toswap the picks, much like almost every otherdraft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reasonthat no such rule exists. </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claimwould prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters? </P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade. The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet. </P>


</P>


(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.) Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link? And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules. See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence. Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.</P>


</P>


You adamantly claimed that there was a rule that would make your dreamed up trade illegal, which you then used as a basis for claiming that EA was lying about how the trade really went down. </P>


When you were asked what rule you were referring to, you were unable to unable to find either the rule or any mention of it whatsoever anywhere on the internet. </P>


Case closed. I have no further interest inyou or your made up trades and rules.</P>


</P>

burier
06-29-2012, 12:31 PM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football.* Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those players*in a trade after the picks were made?* If they had a deal before the*draft, they would have just agreed to*swap the picks, much like almost every other*draft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reason*that no such rule exists.* </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claim*would prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters?* *</P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade.* The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet.*** </P>


*</P>


(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.) Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link? And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules. See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence. Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.</P>


*</P>


You adamantly claimed that there was a rule that would make your dreamed up trade illegal, which you then used as a basis for claiming that EA was lying about how the trade really went down.* </P>


When you were asked what rule you were referring to, you were unable to unable to find either the rule or any mention of it whatsoever anywhere on the internet. </P>


Case closed. I have no further interest in*you or your made up trades and rules.</P>


* </P>

lol case closed...*Stomps off with his ball*

We'll stick a pin in this discussion until you can provide a "Link" showing how Rivers couldn't have been taken in the first 3 picks...and "Link" us to the Draft rule book so that everyone can see that I just invented a rule for the hell of it.

Do those two things and we'll start it up again.

Also you should know eventually you're going to look quite dumb for claiming that I made a rule up. I simply have not and at some point that will be confirmed.

As far as the made up trade scenario...yeah like I said..my personal conspiracy theory. But I appreciate you repeating me. It shows that your ability to read with understanding is improving.

lawl
06-29-2012, 02:10 PM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football.* Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those players*in a trade after the picks were made?* If they had a deal before the*draft, they would have just agreed to*swap the picks, much like almost every other*draft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reason*that no such rule exists.* </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claim*would prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters?* *</P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade.* The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet.*** </P>


*</P>


(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.) Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link? And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules. See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence. Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.</P>


*</P>


You adamantly claimed that there was a rule that would make your dreamed up trade illegal, which you then used as a basis for claiming that EA was lying about how the trade really went down.* </P>


When you were asked what rule you were referring to, you were unable to unable to find either the rule or any mention of it whatsoever anywhere on the internet. </P>


Case closed. I have no further interest in*you or your made up trades and rules.</P>


* </P>

lol case closed...*Stomps off with his ball*

We'll stick a pin in this discussion until you can provide a "Link" showing how Rivers couldn't have been taken in the first 3 picks...and "Link" us to the Draft rule book so that everyone can see that I just invented a rule for the hell of it.

Do those two things and we'll start it up again.

Also you should know eventually you're going to look quite dumb for claiming that I made a rule up. I simply have not and at some point that will be confirmed.

As far as the made up trade scenario...yeah like I said..my personal conspiracy theory. But I appreciate you repeating me. It shows that your ability to read with understanding is improving.

You claimed that it was a rule, therefore it is your burden to prove it. It is not his burden to disprove without you providing evidence.

Drez
06-29-2012, 02:19 PM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football. Maybe football is just not your thing.</p>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <u>before</u> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those playersin a trade after the picks were made? If they had a deal before thedraft, they would have just agreed toswap the picks, much like almost every otherdraft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</p>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reasonthat no such rule exists. </p>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claimwould prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters? </p>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</p>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</p>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade. The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet. </p>


</p>


(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.) Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link? And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules. See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence. Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.</p>


</p>


You adamantly claimed that there was a rule that would make your dreamed up trade illegal, which you then used as a basis for claiming that EA was lying about how the trade really went down. </p>


When you were asked what rule you were referring to, you were unable to unable to find either the rule or any mention of it whatsoever anywhere on the internet. </p>


Case closed. I have no further interest inyou or your made up trades and rules.</p>


</p>

lol case closed...*Stomps off with his ball*

We'll stick a pin in this discussion until you can provide a "Link" showing how Rivers couldn't have been taken in the first 3 picks...and "Link" us to the Draft rule book so that everyone can see that I just invented a rule for the hell of it.

Do those two things and we'll start it up again.

Also you should know eventually you're going to look quite dumb for claiming that I made a rule up. I simply have not and at some point that will be confirmed.

As far as the made up trade scenario...yeah like I said..my personal conspiracy theory. But I appreciate you repeating me. It shows that your ability to read with understanding is improving.

You claimed that it was a rule, therefore it is your burden to prove it. It is not his burden to disprove without you providing evidence.
I don't think he understands that point. Hence, the last 5 pages of this thread, lol.

burier
06-29-2012, 02:24 PM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football.* Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those players*in a trade after the picks were made?* If they had a deal before the*draft, they would have just agreed to*swap the picks, much like almost every other*draft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reason*that no such rule exists.* </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claim*would prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters?* *</P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade.* The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet.*** </P>


*</P>


(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.) Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link? And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules. See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence. Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.</P>


*</P>


You adamantly claimed that there was a rule that would make your dreamed up trade illegal, which you then used as a basis for claiming that EA was lying about how the trade really went down.* </P>


When you were asked what rule you were referring to, you were unable to unable to find either the rule or any mention of it whatsoever anywhere on the internet. </P>


Case closed. I have no further interest in*you or your made up trades and rules.</P>


* </P>

lol case closed...*Stomps off with his ball*

We'll stick a pin in this discussion until you can provide a "Link" showing how Rivers couldn't have been taken in the first 3 picks...and "Link" us to the Draft rule book so that everyone can see that I just invented a rule for the hell of it.

Do those two things and we'll start it up again.

Also you should know eventually you're going to look quite dumb for claiming that I made a rule up. I simply have not and at some point that will be confirmed.

As far as the made up trade scenario...yeah like I said..my personal conspiracy theory. But I appreciate you repeating me. It shows that your ability to read with understanding is improving.

You claimed that it was a rule, therefore it is your burden to prove it. It is not his burden to disprove without you providing evidence.

But I already said I can't find the damn offical rule book online. I admitted that much. I haven't been able to find any rule to link to.

So is the prevailing position that since Burier hasn't been able to find a rulebook there must be no rules? But I did site exactly where and when I heard the rule discussed.

And what's worse is...I've been posting here long enough and have never spun any sort of bull**** so really asking me for a link is out of line in the first place. I've even posted links to disprove my own theory after the fact.

I don't have a burden to prove ****. I know what I'm talking about.

If someone wants to hide behind legalease as an excuse to remain ignorant more power to him.

giantsfan420
06-29-2012, 02:28 PM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football.* Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those players*in a trade after the picks were made?* If they had a deal before the*draft, they would have just agreed to*swap the picks, much like almost every other*draft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reason*that no such rule exists.* </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claim*would prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters?* *</P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade.* The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet.*** </P>


*</P>


(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.) Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link? And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules. See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence. Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.</P>


*</P>


You adamantly claimed that there was a rule that would make your dreamed up trade illegal, which you then used as a basis for claiming that EA was lying about how the trade really went down.* </P>


When you were asked what rule you were referring to, you were unable to unable to find either the rule or any mention of it whatsoever anywhere on the internet. </P>


Case closed. I have no further interest in*you or your made up trades and rules.</P>


* </P>

lol case closed...*Stomps off with his ball*

We'll stick a pin in this discussion until you can provide a "Link" showing how Rivers couldn't have been taken in the first 3 picks...and "Link" us to the Draft rule book so that everyone can see that I just invented a rule for the hell of it.

Do those two things and we'll start it up again.

Also you should know eventually you're going to look quite dumb for claiming that I made a rule up. I simply have not and at some point that will be confirmed.

As far as the made up trade scenario...yeah like I said..my personal conspiracy theory. But I appreciate you repeating me. It shows that your ability to read with understanding is improving.

why would he need to find a link for that? rivers WASNT taken in the top 3...u need him to find a link saying he wasnt taken in the top 3 lol...

and burier ur confusing the nba rule with the nfl rule. the nba, ur not allowed to draft a player solely for trading him to another team. i forget the exact termenology but it was brought up during this past nba draft.

the nfl, its happens countless times where a team takes a player to use to trade with a team that wants said player. its exactly what we did. and the giants org doesnt break many, if any, rules...

as i said before, i read an article where it was known prior to the draft eli would not play for sd. if he was stuck with sd, eli said he would have retired and gone to law school. before the draft, its on record archie manning had a meeting/dinner with aj smith and aj smith disclosed what was said during that meeting to a news reporter who then went onto write a story about it. that made the seperation between the manning camp and sd even greater.
it was also known EA was enamored with Eli. Its known EA wanted Elway while he was with the colts, and elway pulled an eli (only using that term as a reference, eli technically pulled an elway but most dont know that actually happened) and refused to play for the colts.
there had been talks about it prior to the draft but there was no concrete agreement until the draft imo...

anything else in addition to that could be plausible, whatever the theory may be. i cant disprove it one way or the other.

Drez
06-29-2012, 02:28 PM
But I already said I can't find the damn offical rule book online. I admitted that much. I haven't been able to find any rule to link to.

So is the prevailing position that since Burier hasn't been able to find a rulebook there must be no rules?
The opinion is that if you can't find the rule book then we have sufficient reason to doubt that what you say is a rule is in fact a rule. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the rule is real, not on us to prove that it isn't.

lawl
06-29-2012, 02:30 PM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football.* Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those players*in a trade after the picks were made?* If they had a deal before the*draft, they would have just agreed to*swap the picks, much like almost every other*draft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reason*that no such rule exists.* </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claim*would prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters?* *</P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade.* The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet.*** </P>


*</P>


(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.) Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link? And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules. See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence. Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.</P>


*</P>


You adamantly claimed that there was a rule that would make your dreamed up trade illegal, which you then used as a basis for claiming that EA was lying about how the trade really went down.* </P>


When you were asked what rule you were referring to, you were unable to unable to find either the rule or any mention of it whatsoever anywhere on the internet. </P>


Case closed. I have no further interest in*you or your made up trades and rules.</P>


* </P>

lol case closed...*Stomps off with his ball*

We'll stick a pin in this discussion until you can provide a "Link" showing how Rivers couldn't have been taken in the first 3 picks...and "Link" us to the Draft rule book so that everyone can see that I just invented a rule for the hell of it.

Do those two things and we'll start it up again.

Also you should know eventually you're going to look quite dumb for claiming that I made a rule up. I simply have not and at some point that will be confirmed.

As far as the made up trade scenario...yeah like I said..my personal conspiracy theory. But I appreciate you repeating me. It shows that your ability to read with understanding is improving.

You claimed that it was a rule, therefore it is your burden to prove it. It is not his burden to disprove without you providing evidence.

But I already said I can't find the damn offical rule book online. I admitted that much. I haven't been able to find any rule to link to.

So is the prevailing position that since Burier hasn't been able to find a rulebook there must be no rules?

Yea pretty much. You made a claim that can't be substantiated. You can't then use the stance that since he can't find anything to the contrary that there is still a possibility of you being correct.

Any time a claim or argument is posed, references are to be made such that a proper response can then be made

burier
06-29-2012, 02:32 PM
But I already said I can't find the damn offical rule book online. I admitted that much. I haven't been able to find any rule to link to.

So is the prevailing position that since Burier hasn't been able to find a rulebook there must be no rules?
The opinion is that if you can't find the rule book then we have sufficient reason to doubt that what you say is a rule is in fact a rule. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the rule is real, not on us to prove that it isn't.


Answer me this: Are there or are there not rules that govern an NFL draft?

If yes then please link me to them so we can cut to end of the conversation.

And if you can't find a link then we have "sufficient reason to believe" that there are in fact no rules.... by your logic.

giantsfan420
06-29-2012, 02:33 PM
But I already said I can't find the damn offical rule book online. I admitted that much. I haven't been able to find any rule to link to.

So is the prevailing position that since Burier hasn't been able to find a rulebook there must be no rules?
The opinion is that if you can't find the rule book then we have sufficient reason to doubt that what you say is a rule is in fact a rule. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the rule is real, not on us to prove that it isn't.


Answer me this: Are there or are they're not rules that govern an NFL draft?

If yes then please link me to them so we can cut to end of the conversation.

And if you can't find a link then we have "sufficient reason to believe" that there are in fact no rules by your logic.
why would he need to find a link for that? rivers WASNT taken in the top 3...u need him to find a link saying he wasnt taken in the top 3 lol...

and burier ur confusing the nba rule with the nfl rule. the nba, ur not allowed to draft a player solely for trading him to another team. i forget the exact termenology but it was brought up during this past nba draft.

the nfl, its happens countless times where a team takes a player to use to trade with a team that wants said player. its exactly what we did. and the giants org doesnt break many, if any, rules...

as i said before, i read an article where it was known prior to the draft eli would not play for sd. if he was stuck with sd, eli said he would have retired and gone to law school. before the draft, its on record archie manning had a meeting/dinner with aj smith and aj smith disclosed what was said during that meeting to a news reporter who then went onto write a story about it. that made the seperation between the manning camp and sd even greater.
it was also known EA was enamored with Eli. Its known EA wanted Elway while he was with the colts, and elway pulled an eli (only using that term as a reference, eli technically pulled an elway but most dont know that actually happened) and refused to play for the colts.
there had been talks about it prior to the draft but there was no concrete agreement until the draft imo...

anything else in addition to that could be plausible, whatever the theory may be. i cant disprove it one way or the other.

burier
06-29-2012, 02:34 PM
You continue to make no sense whatsoever on any subject related to football.* Maybe football is just not your thing.</P>


Why on earth would the Chargers and Giants work out a deal <U>before</U> the draft that required the Chargers to draft Eli and the Giants to draft Rivers, and then swap those players*in a trade after the picks were made?* If they had a deal before the*draft, they would have just agreed to*swap the picks, much like almost every other*draft pick trade in the history of the NFL.</P>


Even if your nonsensical theory were true, you have yet to identify the alleged NFL draft rule that would prohibit such a trade for the simple reason*that no such rule exists.* </P>


I'll make it easy for you, instead of finding the rule that you claim*would prohibit the trade that you dreamed up in your head (it is impossible to find a rule that doesn't exist), why don't you just summarize the rule and its purpose for all of us "idiot" posters?* *</P>


Its like talking to a 4 year old. If the Giants had the SECOND pick in the draft then maybe the picks could have been swaped but the Giants picked 4th and it was known Cleveland was interested in moving up for a Quarterback. Meaning... for slower one's in attendance....If San Diego gave us the First pick for the 4th The Giants would get the Quarterback They want but San Diego would be exposed to NOT GETTING THE QUARTERBACK THEY WANT! With San Diego taking Eli with the first pick they have the leverage to trade him OR KEEP HIM either way being a win. Since Eli is the player they wanted in the first place. As far as the rules...I've already explained it, The rule simply states that one team cannot draft for another team. Its not rocket science. Now please run along.</P>


There was no chance that Rivers would be taken in the top 3 picks so your made-up scenario fails.</P>


Even if that happened, there would be no reason for EA to lie about it since there is no rule that would prohibit such a trade.* The rule that you refer to does not exist, as evidenced by your inability to find even a mention of it anywhere on the internet.*** </P>


*</P>


(HA...you didn't even know what the hell you were arguing with me about until I just expained it to you. Its just a message board. Relax. You're actling like a teenage girl who just got felt up.) Oh Rivers could be taken in the top 4 BUT DEFINATELY couldn't be taken in the top 3? You gotta link? And why you're finding that link why don't you link me to the NFL draft rule book too. Then everyone can have a point of reference. It would be a great service to us all as I admittedly in the minimal time I've offered to the task have not been able to find a draft rule book on line though I'm quite sure the draft has rules. See that is what would qualify as evidence you math wiz. Show me the rule book and show me where that rule doesn't exist and you have evidence. Me not dropping everything to prove something (Which is actually just common sense if you think about it) to someone I don't even care about isn't evidence of anything.</P>


*</P>


You adamantly claimed that there was a rule that would make your dreamed up trade illegal, which you then used as a basis for claiming that EA was lying about how the trade really went down.* </P>


When you were asked what rule you were referring to, you were unable to unable to find either the rule or any mention of it whatsoever anywhere on the internet. </P>


Case closed. I have no further interest in*you or your made up trades and rules.</P>


* </P>

lol case closed...*Stomps off with his ball*

We'll stick a pin in this discussion until you can provide a "Link" showing how Rivers couldn't have been taken in the first 3 picks...and "Link" us to the Draft rule book so that everyone can see that I just invented a rule for the hell of it.

Do those two things and we'll start it up again.

Also you should know eventually you're going to look quite dumb for claiming that I made a rule up. I simply have not and at some point that will be confirmed.

As far as the made up trade scenario...yeah like I said..my personal conspiracy theory. But I appreciate you repeating me. It shows that your ability to read with understanding is improving.

You claimed that it was a rule, therefore it is your burden to prove it. It is not his burden to disprove without you providing evidence.

But I already said I can't find the damn offical rule book online. I admitted that much. I haven't been able to find any rule to link to.

So is the prevailing position that since Burier hasn't been able to find a rulebook there must be no rules?

Yea pretty much. You made a claim that can't be substantiated. You can't then use the stance that since he can't find anything to the contrary that there is still a possibility of you being correct.

Any time a claim or argument is posed, references are to be made such that a proper response can then be made

Im saying I haven't found the rule book yet....If that translates in your mind that a rule book doesn't exist. fine. Go and be merry. I'm not going to argue with you.

Big Blue in SD
06-29-2012, 02:35 PM
Wonder how san diego fans feel about Eli

last years offseason on these boards, there seemed to be "we should've drafted rivers" threads. wonder if chargers fans wish they shouldve kept eli

I live in San Diego so I can tell you what I've experienced over the years when talking football with Charger fans.

Up until he won his first Super Bowl in 07' I heard a lot of "Eli Manning is a b*%&#! The only reason he was drafted at all was because of his last name. He'll never be Peyton and we bent you guys over a barrel on that trade!"

After the Eli won the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl MVP Chargers fans were emotionally conflicted. They hate Eli, but they hate the entire New England Patriots organization. Some would admit that they were rooting for Eli but others swear that they didn't watch the Super Bowl. In the end they all said "Eli Manning is a b*$%#!"

When Eli lead the league in interceptions it was more of the first quote, but after last year's Super Bowl victory and second Super Bowl MVP they admit that he's elite, but they still say he's a b$#@%.

Chargers fans will always think about what could have been and resent him for it. Until Rivers gets this city their first ring, Chargers fans don't have a leg to stand on in an argument with me.

giantsfan420
06-29-2012, 02:36 PM
i mean SD drafted eli specifically to trade him. if that had violated any rules, the nfl could have stopped the trade. i mean the manning camp was vocal about not playing for SD...

SD was close to wasting the 1rst overall, thats the only thing i wish the nyg woulda done better with what we gave up...from what i understand only 2 teams were willing to get eli after sd, us and cleveland. eli said he wouldnt play for cleveland either. eli pretty much forced SD hand, not ours, we prob coulda gave up less but eh, thats so irrelevant...

Big Blue in SD
06-29-2012, 02:43 PM
i mean SD drafted eli specifically to trade him. if that had violated any rules, the nfl could have stopped the trade. i mean the manning camp was vocal about not playing for SD...

SD was close to wasting the 1rst overall, thats the only thing i wish the nyg woulda done better with what we gave up...from what i understand only 2 teams were willing to get eli after sd, us and cleveland. eli said he wouldnt play for cleveland either. eli pretty much forced SD hand, not ours, we prob coulda gave up less but eh, thats so irrelevant...

I highly doubt that we could've gotten Eli for anything less that what we gave up. AJ Smith (Chargers GM) is as stubborn as they come.

He proved that in his dealings with Marcus McNeil and Vincent Jackson. Other GMs don't mock AJ by calling him the "Lord of No Rings" for nothing.

AJ would gladly picked Eli and have him retire from football to prove that no one's going to force his hand.

burier
06-29-2012, 02:48 PM
But I already said I can't find the damn offical rule book online. I admitted that much. I haven't been able to find any rule to link to.

So is the prevailing position that since Burier hasn't been able to find a rulebook there must be no rules?
The opinion is that if you can't find the rule book then we have sufficient reason to doubt that what you say is a rule is in fact a rule. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the rule is real, not on us to prove that it isn't.


Answer me this: Are there or are they're not rules that govern an NFL draft?

If yes then please link me to them so we can cut to end of the conversation.

And if you can't find a link then we have "sufficient reason to believe" that there are in fact no rules by your logic.
why would he need to find a link for that? rivers WASNT taken in the top 3...u need him to find a link saying he wasnt taken in the top 3 lol...

and burier ur confusing the nba rule with the nfl rule. the nba, ur not allowed to draft a player solely for trading him to another team. i forget the exact termenology but it was brought up during this past nba draft.

the nfl, its happens countless times where a team takes a player to use to trade with a team that wants said player. its exactly what we did. and the giants org doesnt break many, if any, rules...

as i said before, i read an article where it was known prior to the draft eli would not play for sd. if he was stuck with sd, eli said he would have retired and gone to law school. before the draft, its on record archie manning had a meeting/dinner with aj smith and aj smith disclosed what was said during that meeting to a news reporter who then went onto write a story about it. that made the seperation between the manning camp and sd even greater.
it was also known EA was enamored with Eli. Its known EA wanted Elway while he was with the colts, and elway pulled an eli (only using that term as a reference, eli technically pulled an elway but most dont know that actually happened) and refused to play for the colts.
there had been talks about it prior to the draft but there was no concrete agreement until the draft imo...

anything else in addition to that could be plausible, whatever the theory may be. i cant disprove it one way or the other.

The question was. Why would San Diego take Eli only to trade him to the Giants for Rivers when they could have just swaped picks rather than players.

My answer was that there was no guarantee that Rivers would still be sitting there at 4.

The response was that it was impossible for rivers to be taken earlier than 4. I asked for a link because obviously there's no way to prove that and if your running a war room you wouldn't expose yourself to a that sort of risk.

Rivers was taken at 4 but there was no way to know for certain that Oakland wouldn't have taken him, or that Arizona wouldn't have taken him..or that Cleveland wouldnt move up and take him...which would be the reason San Diego wouldn't want to move out of the 1 spot.

As far as the article you're talking about. Everyone knew that Eli didn't want to play in SD..it was common knowlege.

The NBA might have a similar rule to the one I've "made up" Im not up on the NBA as much.

But to be clear as I understand it there's nothing wrong with drafting a player knowing that another team wants said player...or drafting a player for the sole purpose of trading him.

As I understand it..the rule has to do with two or more teams colluding prior to the draft/or selection to say something like..."Hey you take Eli for us.. and if Rivers is still on the board we'll take Rivers for you and throw you a few draft picks or whatever in trade"

Now I'm getting attacked like I have some sort of track record for making **** up.

Take me at my word or don't take me at all. I'm fine either way.

I remember Eli was selected and very shortly after we selected Rivers the trade came through which prompted the question..."How was the deal done?"


At the point the Draft analyst from Espn got to talking about how teams aren't allowe to "draft" for one another.

For the love of god why would I make something like that up?

Drez
06-29-2012, 02:54 PM
SD was close to wasting the 1rst overall.
Exactly. That's why I doubt there's a rule to govern such things. Say we had worked out a deal prior to draft day that SD would draft Eli, we would take Rivers and then make the trade. What happens if Oakland takes Rivers instead of Gallery? There's an inherent risk involved that would make the trade not go down, as there is no way to predict if Rivers (however unlikely) wouldn't have been off the board by our pick. Now, if two other teams were involved and purposefully didn't draft Rivers so we could and then trade with SD, then that might constitute collusion, but an "if-then" trade agreement between two teams isn't.

Also, I asked Pat Traina about it on Twitter just now, and according to her had the trade been agreed upon prior to the draft it still would not have violated any collusion clauses.

lawl
06-29-2012, 02:58 PM
Im saying I haven't found the rule book yet....If that translates in your mind that a rule book doesn't exist. fine. Go and be merry. I'm not going to argue with you.

Right. I'm telling you that you should have had the rule book before even saying anything.

burier
06-29-2012, 03:06 PM
Im saying I haven't found the rule book yet....If that translates in your mind that a rule book doesn't exist. fine. Go and be merry. I'm not going to argue with you.

Right. I'm telling you that you should have had the rule book before even saying anything.

Well you are certainly welcome to your opinion but last I checked GMB wasn't a court of law and if you think I'm so prone to invent things that aren't true you're welcome to discount whatever I post.

GMENAGAIN
06-29-2012, 03:35 PM
Wonder how san diego fans feel about Eli last years offseason on these boards, there seemed to be "we should've drafted rivers" threads. wonder if chargers fans wish they shouldve kept eli I live in San Diego so I can tell you what I've experienced over the years when talking football with Charger fans. Up until he won his first Super Bowl in 07' I heard a lot of "Eli Manning is a b*%&amp;#! The only reason he was drafted at all was because of his last name. He'll never be Peyton and we bent you guys over a barrel on that trade!" After the Eli won the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl MVP Chargers fans were emotionally conflicted. They hate Eli, but they hate the entire New England Patriots organization. Some would admit that they were rooting for Eli but others swear that they didn't watch the Super Bowl. In the end they all said "Eli Manning is a b*$%#!" When Eli lead the league in interceptions it was more of the first quote, but after last year's Super Bowl victory and second Super Bowl MVP they admit that he's elite, but they still say he's a b$#@%. Chargers fans will always think about what could have been and resent him for it. Until Rivers gets this city their first ring, Chargers fans don't have a leg to stand on in an argument with me.</P>


I have to say that I don't blame SD fans for hating Eli. If a player pulled the same move with the Giants, I would hate the guy forever . . .. </P>

giantsfan420
06-29-2012, 03:40 PM
Wonder how san diego fans feel about Eli last years offseason on these boards, there seemed to be "we should've drafted rivers" threads. wonder if chargers fans wish they shouldve kept eli I live in San Diego so I can tell you what I've experienced over the years when talking football with Charger fans. Up until he won his first Super Bowl in 07' I heard a lot of "Eli Manning is a b*%&#! The only reason he was drafted at all was because of his last name. He'll never be Peyton and we bent you guys over a barrel on that trade!" After the Eli won the Super Bowl and the Super Bowl MVP Chargers fans were emotionally conflicted. They hate Eli, but they hate the entire New England Patriots organization. Some would admit that they were rooting for Eli but others swear that they didn't watch the Super Bowl. In the end they all said "Eli Manning is a b*$%#!" When Eli lead the league in interceptions it was more of the first quote, but after last year's Super Bowl victory and second Super Bowl MVP they admit that he's elite, but they still say he's a b$#@%. Chargers fans will always think about what could have been and resent him for it. Until Rivers gets this city their first ring, Chargers fans don't have a leg to stand on in an argument with me.</P>


I have to say that I don't blame SD fans for hating Eli.* If a player pulled the same move with the Giants, I would hate the guy forever . . .*. </P>

if the situation was reversed pefectly, i would hate eli too and his team. knowing he turned out to be so great would kill me esp not havin the sb celebrations and the legendary story that goes with it

jakegibbs
06-29-2012, 03:55 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them & Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli.* They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him.* Which we did.* Plus there was some egos at work.* Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there.* In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>


So when everyone got what they wanted you're saying the Giants wanted a SB MVP QB & SD wanted to stay the status quo. hmmmm........</P>


No.* SD went from a losing, black hole, low expectation organisation*to a successful one.* I'd say the trade worked out well for both sides.</P>


They already had the #2 2011 top 100 NFL player on the team so what black hole at QB were they trying to climb out of?</P>


Ok?* I'm not sure why a bad organisation having a good player means anything.</P>


Welll I don't see how trading Eli for Rivers when they already had Brees got them out of the black hole either.</P>


At the time, Brees wasn't Brees and wasn't seen as the answer at QB.* Otherwise, they wouldn't have drafted Eli.* With Rivers, they got a great QB AND a hoard of draft picks they used to make their team better.</P>

Who's left of the hoard of draft picks they got by trading Eli besides Rivers? Name um for me please if you can... I thought they had all be cut by now.

"With Rivers, they got a great QB AND a hoard of draft picks they used to make their team better.</

PoloGroundsFan
06-29-2012, 04:13 PM
I believe you are right, the Chargers told the Giants which guy they wanted. I cannot believe if the Giants wanted Eli they would have "guessed" at what SD wanted, that makes little or no sense.

gumby742
06-29-2012, 08:25 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers?* Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</P>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </P>


</P>


As I remember we didn't have any talks beforehand.* We picked Rivers because we knew that SD loved him.* We picked him just to use to get Eli.</P>


</P>


That's the thing that's always seemed fishy . . . . if we had no talks with SD, how did we know that SD loved Rivers?* </P>


SD knew that Eli wasn't going to play for them & Rivers was the runner up selection. Better to have 2nds than nothing I guess.</P>


They wanted Rivers over Eli.* They drafted Eli because they knew we wanted him and would probably give up the store for him.* Which we did.* Plus there was some egos at work.* Eli wasn't going to tell them not to draft him.</P>


A lot of factors at play there.* In the end, everyone got what they wanted.</P>


So when everyone got what they wanted you're saying the Giants wanted a SB MVP QB & SD wanted to stay the status quo. hmmmm........</P>


No.* SD went from a losing, black hole, low expectation organisation*to a successful one.* I'd say the trade worked out well for both sides.</P>


They already had the #2 2011 top 100 NFL player on the team so what black hole at QB were they trying to climb out of?</P>


Ok?* I'm not sure why a bad organisation having a good player means anything.</P>


Welll I don't see how trading Eli for Rivers when they already had Brees got them out of the black hole either.</P>


At the time, Brees wasn't Brees and wasn't seen as the answer at QB.* Otherwise, they wouldn't have drafted Eli.* With Rivers, they got a great QB AND a hoard of draft picks they used to make their team better.</P>

Who's left of the hoard of draft picks they got by trading Eli besides Rivers? Name um for me please if you can... I thought they had all be cut by now.

"With Rivers, they got a great QB AND a hoard of draft picks they used to make their team better.</

You're nuts if you don't think that those Picks + Rivers didn't help the franchise becomes more successful. Why do you think it was such a controversial topic? A couple years alter, the Chargers were contenders. Justify it how you want, but the Chargers got 3 pro bowlers out of it.

nygfanmaybe
06-30-2012, 09:47 AM
Justify it how you want, but the Chargers got 3 pro bowlers out of it.

Yes...and they can take those 3 pro bowlers and with just 1 more dollar they can buy themselves a cup of coffee.

Diamondring
07-01-2012, 11:26 AM
If Giants would have beaten all of their opponents by a lot of points, a lot of haters would have said that the Giants played nobody special. You know the rest when we win by a small amount of points.

gumby742
07-01-2012, 01:46 PM
Justify it how you want, but the Chargers got 3 pro bowlers out of it.

Yes...and they can take those 3 pro bowlers and with just 1 more dollar they can buy themselves a cup of coffee.

Huh?

nygfanmaybe
07-02-2012, 07:52 AM
Justify it how you want, but the Chargers got 3 pro bowlers out of it.

Yes...and they can take those 3 pro bowlers and with just 1 more dollar they can buy themselves a cup of coffee.

Huh?

I knew I would probably have to dumb it down for you. What have the 3 pro-bowlers gotten for them? It is extremely possible that Eli and his father knew that they could have pro-bowlers at every position and still find a way to lose there in SD.

gumby742
07-05-2012, 09:26 AM
Justify it how you want, but the Chargers got 3 pro bowlers out of it. Yes...and they can take those 3 pro bowlers and with just 1 more dollar they can buy themselves a cup of coffee. Huh? I knew I would probably have to dumb it down for you. What have the 3 pro-bowlers gotten for them? It is extremely possible that Eli and his father knew that they could have pro-bowlers at every position and still find a way to lose there in SD.</P>


One of the posters here tried to make it seem like it was completely one sided. The draft got them Rivers and 3 pro bowlers which turned them into contenders. For a chargers team that was perennially struggling that's a big deal. No idea how Eli and his father got into this discussion. The topic was that the trade worked out for BOTH teams.</P>

FeaglesPuntsEaglesRunts
07-06-2012, 12:33 PM
Has it ever been reported how the Giants came to pick Rivers? Were trade talks ongoing with the Chargers and the Chargers said that they preferred Rivers over Ben?</p>


Just don't remember how that aspect played out . . . . . </p>

I don't remember if it's in Coughlin's book, or Vacchiano's book about Eli but it pretty much stated the Chargers told the Giants to draft Rivers.. they also wanted Osi but the Giants were able to talk them out of it.

FeaglesPuntsEaglesRunts
07-06-2012, 12:35 PM
Justify it how you want, but the Chargers got 3 pro bowlers out of it.

Yes...and they can take those 3 pro bowlers and with just 1 more dollar they can buy themselves a cup of coffee.

Huh?

It's an expression. When someone says something useless like it actually means something you reply, "That and a dollar 50 will get you a cup of coffee."

BlueBlitzer
07-06-2012, 02:07 PM
Justify it how you want, but the Chargers got 3 pro bowlers out of it.

Yes...and they can take those 3 pro bowlers and with just 1 more dollar they can buy themselves a cup of coffee.

Huh?

It's an expression. When someone says something useless like it actually means something you reply, "That and a dollar 50 will get you a cup of coffee."




Thats a great reply. I use it all the time, in response to today's meaningless quote " That and 1.50 gets you coffee at 7-11. Eli's father had a better quote.

Cue Archie Manning

" They don't call the Sandiego's GM, " Lord Of The Ringless " for nothing.