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View Full Version : AMANI TOOMER DOESN'T BACK DOWN, STILL INSISTS ROMO IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK THAN ELI MANNING



RoanokeFan
07-06-2012, 06:47 PM
AMANI TOOMER DOESN'T BACK DOWN, STILL INSISTS ROMO IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK THAN ELI MANNING (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/amani-toomer-back-insists-tony-romo-a-better-quarterback-eli-manning-article-1.1109299)

"Amani Toomer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Amani+Toomer) may have
raised the ire of the Giants fans who once cheered him on but he didn't back off
his<a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-giant-amani-toomer-tony-romo-eli-manning-best-quarterback-nfc-east-article-1.1108713">
Tony Romo is better than Eli Manning</a> remarks Friday.<div class="story-body p402_premium">


Toomer, appearing on ESPN Radio with Michael Kay, said he researched the
stats beforehand and that they point to the Cowboy QB.</p>


"I'm not dissing Eli," he told Kay. "It's more of an affirmation of <a title="Tony Romo" href="http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tony+Romo">Tony
Romo</a> and how good he is."</p>


Toomer's argument is that Romo's stats are better and that Manning has been
on better teams with better support, hence his eight playoff wins (and two Super
Bowls) to Romo's one.</p>


"Of course he's proved he can do it but he's proved that he could do it
within the function of a great team, a great organization, the same head coach
and he's been in the same system the entire time," he said of his
ex-teammate.</p>


"I talked with Zach Thomas who played with Tony Romo under Wade Phillips and
he said it was a joke. They were listening to rap music before the practices.
They weren't focusing in at all. And what's Tony Romo going to do in that type
of situation?</p>


"There are a lot of advantages that Eli has had and I realize that he's taken
advantage of them but you've got to look at the numbers and how productive Tony
Romo has been over his entire career and you've got to match up the
numbers."</p>


In fact, Toomer took that a little further.</p>


"I think you belittle the rest of the Giants by saying Eli's won eight
playoff games, Eli's won this," he said. "He has but he's been on some really
good teams that jelled well together on these playoff runs."</p>


Toomer said he was ready to pile on Romo a couple of weeks ago, but was doing
some show prep for his SIRIUS radio show with Tom Ryan when he began to look at
Romo differently.</p>


"I was all set ... Romo's no good, he's a fourth-quarter choke and then I
started doing my job," he said. "I started looking at the numbers, I started
looking at the fourth quarter statistics. I started looking at the quarterback
rating and was shocked. I was shocked at how good Tony Romo's statistics really
were. This guy is very impressive."</p>


Then, on Thursday his co-host, Tim Ryan, said that Manning was the best QB in
the NFC East and predicted that the Giants would win the division again.</p>


"And I was like, 'wait a minute.' All this information I had gathered on Tony
Romo, I couldn't let him get away with it," Toomer said. "So I said, 'you know
what? Tony Romo could be statistically a better quarterback.'"</p>


Kay asked Toomer if he had to pick either to win a game with, which QB he'd
pick. He said it was an unfair question because he played with Manning who is
No. 1 in his heart.</p>


"I love Eli. I respect the hell out of him," he said. "But I've got to do my
job and go beyond what the perception is because perception doesn't go hand in
hand with the reality."</p>


Kay asked Toomer if he understand the reaction of Giants fans who have lumped
him in with Tiki Barber, another Manning critic.</p>


"I do and I love the Giants fans as well. I also have a job to do and I don't
think they'd want me to just sit up there and wave my Giants flag," he said. "I
don't think I'd have as much credibility on the national stage. I'm</p>


trying to be as objective as I can and I hope Giants fans understand
that.</p>


"I loved being a Giant and I love Eli Manning. He was one of the best guys I
ever played with. He was the guy who after I got released by the Giants, he was
the only one who stepped up and gave me a phone call and told me how much he
appreciated my help to develop him as a quarterback."</p></div>

XxBigWhitxX
07-06-2012, 06:48 PM
Just...stop..

Rudyy
07-06-2012, 06:49 PM
Lol k.

GmenFan1980
07-06-2012, 07:19 PM
all that, just to say Romo has better stats and that's what I based my opinion on...

Dorkasaurus
07-06-2012, 07:22 PM
who cares

Breezely
07-06-2012, 07:25 PM
The only thing I have to say is, it's funny how the exes of other teams show a lot of love for the former team but ex-Giants, suddenly feel the need to be objective analysts. The Giants don't get any love from none of the analyst and then comes the ex-Giant trying to be politically correct. You really cannot say that Eli had better teams because you so-called analyst picks them to win the Superbowl every year , while placing the Giants in third or last place in the East.

Firenugget
07-06-2012, 07:30 PM
If Eli was on better teams, why do they all pick Dallas and Eagles every year based on talent? While Toomer was here, the Cowboys had the better team talent-wise, no question about it. Now with the talent we have it may be different but not for most of Eli's years. (Speaking on offense mostly.)

Breezely
07-06-2012, 07:41 PM
If Romo was in NY = NO Superbowls!!!!!!!!

Dallas fans don't even like Romo. The Dallas fans trash him every year. They want another QB!!!!!!!!!!! Poll 'em!

NYSPORTS
07-06-2012, 07:46 PM
Considering the stats, Stafford must be better than both Manning and Romo then. Maybe Aikman was a horrible QB too.

You don't need to be a stockbroker to trade stock
You don't need to be a banker to balance a check book
You don't need to have played in the NFL to understand football

Many of these NFL players are at the lower end of the intellect food chain.

NYG 5
07-06-2012, 07:47 PM
yeah poor Romo, he was on some real terrible teams when he had that mammoth offensive line and Terrell Owens and Jason Witten and Dez Bryant to throw to.

bLuereverie
07-06-2012, 07:47 PM
I heard the first interview on Sirius, and thought it was overblown. This one was more deliberate, but still hardly compelling.

He starts off by saying that he was given a Romo assignment in which he was certain he was going to be talking about Romo's ineptitude and futility, only to research stats. Now it seems, numbers are his only guiding argument.

FUUFNF
07-06-2012, 08:08 PM
If Toomer is basing his argument solely on stats and the belief that the Giants have had better teams all these years, then he is a complete fool.

Diamondring
07-06-2012, 08:14 PM
Yeah Toomer you is not smart cause Eli played well in playoffs against good teams. He played well against the Falcons, then really put a hurtin on the Pack and come on man, all those hits Eli took and still got up acted like he didn't get hit. I bet Romo would have got carted off if he would have faced the 49ers' bad defense.

Then lets look at the Superbowl where Eli put up good numbers man. Come on dood.

JPP
07-06-2012, 10:17 PM
I don't get how we are routinely picked to not make the playoffs but then when we do and win 2 Superbowls then it was either fluke or because our team was stacked. Go back to 07-08 and nobody was saying that, sure we had a good defence but it wasn't like we only scored 10 points per playoff game. Then in 2011-12 Eli has his best season to date when the running game is non-exsistent and most of his WRs are either gone or injured.

Don't mind some disrespect but this is unreal Amani, Romo was better for the 1st couple seasons but clearly Eli has passed him. It is also a lot harder to swallow after hearing everyone pick the cowboys(and even eagles) and talk about how they are the most talented team and they are going to win the Superbowl. So the cowgirls don't live up to the hype and are some how better then us, we blow away expectations and somehow some way they find it a fault to our team. Ridiculous.

sharick88
07-06-2012, 10:26 PM
Clarence Beeks just told Toomer to **** off

Roosevelt
07-06-2012, 10:42 PM
Toomer is not doing his post-football career any good.

buddy33
07-06-2012, 11:06 PM
Well Toomer, you may be the only member of the media to not think Dallas has better talent than the Giants.

I heard this garbage this morning. He was all over the place. The only thing he was confident in saying, and he is right, is that Romo has better stats. Wow, I would have thought a former player would know the difference between fantasy football and real football.

He said that he would rather play with Eli but if he where a GM he would draft Romo. What? Wouldn't it make sense that the guy you want to play with would be the guy you thought would give you the best chance to win? Wouldn't a GM want to draft a guy that gave them the best chance to win?

I don't care if he thinks Romo is a better QB. Just back up your words Toomer and say you would wan to play for the better QB. When his co host asked about picking Romo if he was the GM he asked if that meant Romo was the better QB. Toomer went back to his fantasy football argument.

Hey Toomer, just say what you feel. You said Romo is the better statistical QB and if you where a GM you would draft him over Eli. Don't say you would rather play with Eli. It's simply not true. Why would you play for a guy who doesn't have better stats and who you would not pick over Romo. Just stay true Toomer and don't worry about what QB got you your ring.

giantsfan420
07-06-2012, 11:08 PM
If Toomer is basing his argument solely on stats and the belief that the Giants have had better teams all these years, then he is a complete fool.

yeah. lol. toomer isnt doing himself any favors. his "explanation" is filled with even more logical fallacies and inaccuracies...toomer may be way more egocentric then i'd ever realized

the way he said "i wasnt going to let him get away with it. i did my job. romos the better qb." like huh? so every other analyst who knows 10x more about the specific play of a qb is just off base then.

someone fill respected analysts like cosell, and to an extent jaws, etc etc, who have put eli top 5 and some as the top qb in the league that toomer let u all know that u were actually wrong. he did the homework, he saw numbers....like gtf overurself dude. i woulda had 10x more respect for him if he woulda a)admitted he placed way too much onous on stats B) retracted his statement that the giants have had the superior teams (HORRIBLE opinion based on NO reasoning/proof) and c) said he may have gone a little overboard...

instead, he goes "im right, everyone else is really wrong and not informed like me..."

i dont even know any dallas fans who would claim romos a better qb than eli, and here is one of the NYG all time greats saying so, and acting like its actually true lmfao

jomo
07-06-2012, 11:25 PM
His argument is basically a numbers argument. Anyone with a half a brain knows that numbers don't make any player. I used to think that the University of Michigan had high academic standards but I guess they dumb them down for the football team.</P>


If numbers were everything, a computer would bethe head coach.</P>

Roosevelt
07-06-2012, 11:33 PM
His argument is basically a numbers argument. Anyone with a half a brain knows that numbers don't make any player. I used to think that the University of Michigan had high academic standards but I guess they dumb them down for the football team.</p>


If numbers were everything, a computer would bethe head coach.</p>

So true.

I cannot believe he would make these comments based on stats and "what-ifs" when performance and "what-has-been" is smacking him upside his head.

Shame on you Amani. May you now reap what you sowed.

Rudyy
07-06-2012, 11:49 PM
What bothers me most is the logic behind it. Tony Romo has better numbers, therefore he is the better quarterback. Oh but I would rather play for Eli..wait what? You just said that Tony Romo was a better quarterback AND of you were a GM, you would draft him. Make up your mind.

BlueBlitzer
07-06-2012, 11:53 PM
I am so glad Victor Cruz broke His Record. ( You see Victor was doing His job too, and wasn't going to let Amni get away with it. )

FBomb
07-06-2012, 11:56 PM
The overall theme to his opinion is that Romo is a great QB on a bad team with an idiot owner. He is not saying anything that we all didn't know already. Romo can't help but choke. </P>

giantsfan420
07-06-2012, 11:59 PM
I am so glad Victor Cruz broke His Record. ( You see Victor was doing His job too, and wasn't going to let Amni get away with it. )

well said

FBomb
07-07-2012, 12:04 AM
His argument is basically a numbers argument. Anyone with a half a brain knows that numbers don't make any player. I used to think that the University of Michigan had high academic standards but I guess they dumb them down for the football team.</P>


If numbers were everything, a computer would bethe head coach.</P>




So true.

I cannot believe he would make these comments based on stats and "what-ifs" when performance and "what-has-been" is smacking him upside his head.

Shame on you Amani. May you now reap what you sowed.
</P>


Yep....even though I don't care about his opinion on Eli, this will, without a doubt, turn Giants fans against him. Could there be another Ring of Honor booing?</P>


I still have both my Tiki and Toomer jersies, and I will keep them. This is no big deal.</P>

jomo
07-07-2012, 12:13 AM
His argument is basically a numbers argument. Anyone with a half a brain knows that numbers don't make any player. I used to think that the University of Michigan had high academic standards but I guess they dumb them down for the football team.</P>


If numbers were everything, a computer would bethe head coach.</P>




So true.

I cannot believe he would make these comments based on stats and "what-ifs" when performance and "what-has-been" is smacking him upside his head.

Shame on you Amani. May you now reap what you sowed.
</P>


Yep....even though I don't care about his opinion on Eli, this will, without a doubt, turn Giants fans against him. Could there be another Ring of Honor booing?</P>


I still have both my Tiki and Toomer jersies, and I will keep them. This is no big deal.</P>I have been a big fan of AT since he was drafted but you are right FB, this episode has rattled me. I am not feeling the love for him right now. He needs to reel this one back in one way or another or he will lose me and many others for good.

giantsfan420
07-07-2012, 01:45 AM
its just his stance and reasoning is so flawed.

romo is consistent while eli is not?

eli-led nfl with GW drives with 6 in the reg season and 2 in the post season
15 4th qtr tds
highest 4th qrt qb rating/3rd down rating

when the game actually literally is in the hands of the qb, eli is downright dominant/elite and romo butterfingers or throws pick 6s that allow the other team to take the lead etc etc...

romo has also missed a lot more games due to injury than eli

romo is in no way a more consistently successful qb...at all...just toomers whole outlook is severely flawed.

i dont have an issue with that. i do have an issue with him acting as if bc he researched it, he trumps others who have researched it...that he didnt come out today and discuss how he may have (he did) place way too much emphasis on a statistic that doesnt tell much...or that he didnt give enough credit to eli (hes good in the clutch but toomer never says hes a good player outside the clutch really) and gave too much credit to the DALLAS COWBOYS QB?!?! screw him

BeatYale
07-07-2012, 01:57 AM
The stats no one seems to care about around here are the stats that analysts and rival fans use to discredit his success. Obviously those stats do carry some serious weight because regardless of Aaron Rodgers losing to us in the playoffs, I think it's safe to say he's thought of as the best QB in the league because of his consistent efficiency over the years. A bad game is seen as out of the ordinary for him right now. Can the same be said for Eli? Are the high turnover games completely behind him now? I'm hoping so.

BlueBlitzer
07-07-2012, 03:00 AM
Well our HOFer beat two of their HOFers in the Packers own back yard ( The Frozen Tundra ) . And if it weren't for some crosseyed ref, Eli would have beaten the Packers twice last year ( Just like He did to the Patriots. And Eli has TWO SB MVP AWARDS not one.

G-Man67
07-07-2012, 03:51 AM
in fantasy football????

certainly not in reality football

sadly, maybe Amani is suffering from Post Concussion Syndrome ... get well Toomer

Marvelousmik
07-07-2012, 05:59 AM
Manning has been on better teams with better support,

i stopped reading there.

yoeddy
07-07-2012, 06:25 AM
If Toomer is basing his argument solely on stats and the belief that the Giants have had better teams all these years, then he is a complete fool.

I am in agreement with Amani that the Giants have had better coaching and better teams than the Cowboys over the last 8 years. MUCH better.

jomo
07-07-2012, 07:40 AM
If Toomer is basing his argument solely on stats and the belief that the Giants have had better teams all these years, then he is a complete fool. I am in agreement with Amani that the Giants have had better coaching and better teams than the Cowboys over the last 8 years. MUCH better.The Cowboys were pre-season picks to win the Super Bowl about 5 of those 8 years. The Giants wound up as a MUCH better team partly because they have a much better QB while "analysts" continue to be enamored by TR's stats. In the history of team sports, stats have never won a single game.

Diamondring
07-07-2012, 07:47 AM
If Toomer is basing his argument solely on stats and the belief that the Giants have had better teams all these years, then he is a complete fool.

I am in agreement with Amani that the Giants have had better coaching and better teams than the Cowboys over the last 8 years. MUCH better.I'm going to have to agree with you and it showed in the playoffs. Giants almost beaten all of the teams they had to play against in the playoffs except the 49ers wich was a close game.

buddy33
07-07-2012, 07:51 AM
Well I don't know what Toomer has said about Dallas for the past few years but it seems the media always talks about how much talent they have and they seem to be favored to win the division a lot.

Toomer thinks Romo is a better QB. That's fine, it's his opinion. Just because he played with Eli doesn't mean he should say he likes Eli as a QB better. What got me was when he said he would rather play with Eli. That was him trying to back peddle.

Just stay with what you said Toomer. You said Romo has the better stats and if you where a GM you would pick Romo over Eli. Why would you want to play with a guy who doesn't give you the best chance to win? You said what you said. You think Romo is better and you would rather have played with him. It's ok.

Diamondring
07-07-2012, 07:54 AM
Well I don't know what Toomer has said about Dallas for the past few years but it seems the media always talks about how much talent they have and they seem to be favored to win the division a lot.

Toomer thinks Romo is a better QB. That's fine, it's his opinion. Just because he played with Eli doesn't mean he should say he likes Eli as a QB better. What got me was when he said he would rather play with Eli. That was him trying to back peddle.

Just stay with what you said Toomer. You said Romo has the better stats and if you where a GM you would pick Romo over Eli. Why would you want to play with a guy who doesn't give you the best chance to win? You said what you said. You think Romo is better and you would rather have played with him. It's ok.The devil will make people say the craziest things. What is happening with our respected wr we all know and love.

TuckYou
07-07-2012, 08:19 AM
If Romo is a better QB then Eli, thenMiles Austinis a better WR then Toomer.

GCGiant
07-07-2012, 08:20 AM
It's kinda like this...

What would the world be like if we all agreed?

What would people have to talk about...the weather?

He has a new job. Something different. Maybe he feels that the Eli "enigma" is still a good story if told correctly...or should I say...talking about Eli and Romo will garner attention toward him...but only if he is saying Romo is better. It's the entertainment business. Tiki went about it the wrong way...maybe Toomer won't.

There's an old saying that goes, "It doesn't matter whether they're talking good or bad about you...as long as they are talking about you!"

If you subscribe to that saying, then even Tiki is doing a good job.

GameTime
07-07-2012, 10:12 AM
I respect Toomer for his honesty.....and how he feels about stats.
However......did he see the stats of SB wins?? I know he has but No way Romo is a better over all QB than Eli. Good teams bad teams.....players whatever...
Eli is better period.

jomo
07-07-2012, 10:41 AM
It's kinda like this... What would the world be like if we all agreed? What would people have to talk about...the weather? He has a new job. Something different. Maybe he feels that the Eli "enigma" is still a good story if told correctly...or should I say...talking about Eli and Romo will garner attention toward him...but only if he is saying Romo is better. It's the entertainment business. Tiki went about it the wrong way...maybe Toomer won't. There's an old saying that goes, "It doesn't matter whether they're talking good or bad about you...as long as they are talking about you!" If you subscribe to that saying, then even Tiki is doing a good job.Being a journalist should be about seeking the truth, doing an honest analysis not seeking attention or creating buzz. If that is the career he is seeking to pursue, he needs to get some training quickly. He should also look at how a similar approach led nowhere (understatement)for the former Giants running back with a million dollar smile, bald head and a degree from UVA. [;)]

GOBIGBLUE52
07-07-2012, 10:44 AM
Call me crazy here, but I really don't see anything wrong with what Toomer's saying. Of course I'd rather have Eli. But you break this down piece by piece, he isn't wrong really.

Who has better stats in the regular season? You better bet Romo does. It's a fact. Can't dispute it.

Eli HAS played in one system his whole career. Romo's had 3 different head coaches. Not a knock on either QB, just a knock that the cowboys are a dysfunctional organization, and yes, no coaching stability does affect QBs.

As far as Eli's playoff record, this is totally accurate. He can't get blame for all of the losses, can't get credit for all of the wins. Eli is one guy on a 53 man roster where 22 of them start at various positions. And Eli's had bad playoff performances, such as 08 Eagles or 05 Panthers.

And if you look at Romo's 4th quarter stats recently you'd see he's actually pretty good.

Again, I'll still take Eli, but I don't see anything wrong with what Toomer said.

PS, I hate how everyone here is using the 2 rings &gt; 0 rings argument. The defense in both years was a huge part of why Eli has two rings. Yeah he got us to the playoffs this year, but the defense stepped up in the playoffs, and if they didn't, no way we win. Again, team stat.

I saw someone saying that Romo had Owens and Whitten, well, Owens was more of a cancer than a help, plus Eli's had Shockey, Nicks, Cruz, Burress, Tiki over the course of his career. So weapons don't make a difference here.

Cool Papa B.
07-07-2012, 11:09 AM
Call me crazy here, but I really don't see anything wrong with what Toomer's saying. Of course I'd rather have Eli. But you break this down piece by piece, he isn't wrong really.

Who has better stats in the regular season? You better bet Romo does. It's a fact. Can't dispute it.

Eli HAS played in one system his whole career. Romo's had 3 different head coaches. Not a knock on either QB, just a knock that the cowboys are a dysfunctional organization, and yes, no coaching stability does affect QBs.

As far as Eli's playoff record, this is totally accurate. He can't get blame for all of the losses, can't get credit for all of the wins. Eli is one guy on a 53 man roster where 22 of them start at various positions. And Eli's had bad playoff performances, such as 08 Eagles or 05 Panthers.

And if you look at Romo's 4th quarter stats recently you'd see he's actually pretty good.

Again, I'll still take Eli, but I don't see anything wrong with what Toomer said.

PS, I hate how everyone here is using the 2 rings > 0 rings argument. The defense in both years was a huge part of why Eli has two rings. Yeah he got us to the playoffs this year, but the defense stepped up in the playoffs, and if they didn't, no way we win. Again, team stat.

I saw someone saying that Romo had Owens and Whitten, well, Owens was more of a cancer than a help, plus Eli's had Shockey, Nicks, Cruz, Burress, Tiki over the course of his career. So weapons don't make a difference here.


I think the problem everyone is having is his logic behind his opinions. Yesterday he said he forgot Eli played in the NFC East.....seriously, I laughed for about 5 minutes straight. And then he says Romo didn't have the talent around him the way Eli had. That's flawed because he had plenty of playmakers in Owens, Bryant and Whitten over the years. And you're right Owens was a cancer in the Locker room. But wasn't Shockey & Burress a cancer in the locker room also?

And yes Eli didn't win in the playoffs on his own.....who does? Every QB needs playmakers around him to succeed. I don't care if it's Montana or Elway. But he certainly played well and made plays to help his team win.

His logic is totally flawed and as a result you really can't take him seriously. I wish the guys at ESPN took him to task on his reasoning.

GameTime
07-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Call me crazy here, but I really don't see anything wrong with what Toomer's saying. Of course I'd rather have Eli. But you break this down piece by piece, he isn't wrong really.

Who has better stats in the regular season? You better bet Romo does. It's a fact. Can't dispute it.

Eli HAS played in one system his whole career. Romo's had 3 different head coaches. Not a knock on either QB, just a knock that the cowboys are a dysfunctional organization, and yes, no coaching stability does affect QBs.

As far as Eli's playoff record, this is totally accurate. He can't get blame for all of the losses, can't get credit for all of the wins. Eli is one guy on a 53 man roster where 22 of them start at various positions. And Eli's had bad playoff performances, such as 08 Eagles or 05 Panthers.

And if you look at Romo's 4th quarter stats recently you'd see he's actually pretty good.

Again, I'll still take Eli, but I don't see anything wrong with what Toomer said.

PS, I hate how everyone here is using the 2 rings &gt; 0 rings argument. The defense in both years was a huge part of why Eli has two rings. Yeah he got us to the playoffs this year, but the defense stepped up in the playoffs, and if they didn't, no way we win. Again, team stat.

I saw someone saying that Romo had Owens and Whitten, well, Owens was more of a cancer than a help, plus Eli's had Shockey, Nicks, Cruz, Burress, Tiki over the course of his career. So weapons don't make a difference here.
I think the problem everyone is having is his logic behind his opinions. Yesterday he said he forgot Eli played in the NFC East.....seriously, I laughed for about 5 minutes straight. And then he says Romo didn't have the talent around him the way Eli had. That's flawed because he had plenty of playmakers in Owens, Bryant and Whitten over the years. And you're right Owens was a cancer in the Locker room. But wasn't Shockey &amp; Burress a cancer in the locker room also? His logic is totally flawed and as a result you really can't take him seriously. I wish the guys at ESPN took him to task on his reasoning.</P>


Romo IS a good QB. No doubt. He just isnt as good as Eli overall. I dont care what the numbers say. </P>


</P>

Roosevelt
07-07-2012, 11:18 AM
Call me crazy here, but I really don't see anything wrong with what Toomer's saying. Of course I'd rather have Eli. But you break this down piece by piece, he isn't wrong really.

Who has better stats in the regular season? You better bet Romo does. It's a fact. Can't dispute it.

Eli HAS played in one system his whole career. Romo's had 3 different head coaches. Not a knock on either QB, just a knock that the cowboys are a dysfunctional organization, and yes, no coaching stability does affect QBs.

As far as Eli's playoff record, this is totally accurate. He can't get blame for all of the losses, can't get credit for all of the wins. Eli is one guy on a 53 man roster where 22 of them start at various positions. And Eli's had bad playoff performances, such as 08 Eagles or 05 Panthers.

And if you look at Romo's 4th quarter stats recently you'd see he's actually pretty good.

Again, I'll still take Eli, but I don't see anything wrong with what Toomer said.

PS, I hate how everyone here is using the 2 rings &gt; 0 rings argument. The defense in both years was a huge part of why Eli has two rings. Yeah he got us to the playoffs this year, but the defense stepped up in the playoffs, and if they didn't, no way we win. Again, team stat.

I saw someone saying that Romo had Owens and Whitten, well, Owens was more of a cancer than a help, plus Eli's had Shockey, Nicks, Cruz, Burress, Tiki over the course of his career. So weapons don't make a difference here.


You make some good points, but the bottom line is you would take Eli while Amani would take Romo based on his QB rating. That does not make sense given the fact that Eli has 2 SB MVP's under his belt - granted, Tuck deserved the first one. But how do you argue against that?

RoanokeFan
07-07-2012, 11:34 AM
There really isn't a problem with Toomer's assessment of whose statistics are better. Numbers are numbers and this is where those who live and die on numbers fall short a lot of the time. Winning in the NFL isn't just about whose numbers are better. It's also about the intangibles like clutch, heart, and, yes, ALL-IN.

It takes a lot to win in the NFL and an individual player's statistics don't really mean much in that regard. Eli has had some iffy seasons in terms of ball control and that's not a surprise to anyone. But he has also come through when it counted so you have to factor it all in to make a realistic assessment of who the better QB is. If Amani had simply said Romo is the statistically better QB over a given period of time and the stats verify that, then it is what it is. Eli is still a better QB than Romo if winning matters.

giantsfan420
07-07-2012, 11:56 AM
There really isn't a problem with Toomer's assessment of whose statistics are better.* Numbers are numbers and this is where those who live and die on numbers fall short a lot of the time.* Winning in the NFL isn't just about whose numbers are better.* It's also about the intangibles like clutch, heart, and, yes, ALL-IN.

It takes a lot to win in the NFL and an individual player's statistics don't really mean much in that regard.* Eli has had some iffy seasons in terms of ball control and that's not a surprise to anyone.* But he has also come through when it counted so you have to factor it all in to make a realistic assessment of who the better QB is.* If Amani had simply said Romo is the statistically better QB over a given period of time and the stats verify that, then it is what it is.* Eli is still a better QB than Romo if winning matters.


numbers are not just numbers. its why so many get on gumby, bc he uses a number as a means to define. heres an example of why thats faulty; ok romo may have the higher comp %, but when u consider the number of downfield throws/completions eli has, and the way in which our scheme relies so heavily on those intermediary passes, that eli's completion %, while a few points lower, is actually more impressive...this isnt to say the cowboys dont go downfield, but we led the league in pass attempts of more than 20 yds, and completions of more than 20 yds...eli having near the same completion % of romo actually furthers the fact elis the better qb. whereas gumby, and apparently toomer, look at strictly the numbers that represents completion % for both qbs, and whoevers got the higher % is then defined by them as being more accurate...see how numbers can be so flawed when not put into context?

RoanokeFan
07-07-2012, 12:05 PM
There really isn't a problem with Toomer's assessment of whose statistics are better. Numbers are numbers and this is where those who live and die on numbers fall short a lot of the time. Winning in the NFL isn't just about whose numbers are better. It's also about the intangibles like clutch, heart, and, yes, ALL-IN.

It takes a lot to win in the NFL and an individual player's statistics don't really mean much in that regard. Eli has had some iffy seasons in terms of ball control and that's not a surprise to anyone. But he has also come through when it counted so you have to factor it all in to make a realistic assessment of who the better QB is. If Amani had simply said Romo is the statistically better QB over a given period of time and the stats verify that, then it is what it is. Eli is still a better QB than Romo if winning matters.


numbers are not just numbers. its why so many get on gumby, bc he uses a number as a means to define. heres an example of why thats faulty; ok romo may have the higher comp %, but when u consider the number of downfield throws/completions eli has, and the way in which our scheme relies so heavily on those intermediary passes, that eli's completion %, while a few points lower, is actually more impressive...this isnt to say the cowboys dont go downfield, but we led the league in pass attempts of more than 20 yds, and completions of more than 20 yds...eli having near the same completion % of romo actually furthers the fact elis the better qb. whereas gumby, and apparently toomer, look at strictly the numbers that represents completion % for both qbs, and whoevers got the higher % is then defined by them as being more accurate...see how numbers can be so flawed when not put into context?

That's what I said.

Roosevelt
07-07-2012, 12:30 PM
There really isn't a problem with Toomer's assessment of whose statistics are better. Numbers are numbers and this is where those who live and die on numbers fall short a lot of the time. Winning in the NFL isn't just about whose numbers are better. It's also about the intangibles like clutch, heart, and, yes, ALL-IN.

It takes a lot to win in the NFL and an individual player's statistics don't really mean much in that regard. Eli has had some iffy seasons in terms of ball control and that's not a surprise to anyone. But he has also come through when it counted so you have to factor it all in to make a realistic assessment of who the better QB is. If Amani had simply said Romo is the statistically better QB over a given period of time and the stats verify that, then it is what it is. Eli is still a better QB than Romo if winning matters.


numbers are not just numbers. its why so many get on gumby, bc he uses a number as a means to define. heres an example of why thats faulty; ok romo may have the higher comp %, but when u consider the number of downfield throws/completions eli has, and the way in which our scheme relies so heavily on those intermediary passes, that eli's completion %, while a few points lower, is actually more impressive...this isnt to say the cowboys dont go downfield, but we led the league in pass attempts of more than 20 yds, and completions of more than 20 yds...eli having near the same completion % of romo actually furthers the fact elis the better qb. whereas gumby, and apparently toomer, look at strictly the numbers that represents completion % for both qbs, and whoevers got the higher % is then defined by them as being more accurate...see how numbers can be so flawed when not put into context?

That's what I said.


lol.

jomo
07-07-2012, 12:33 PM
There really isn't a problem with Toomer's assessment of whose statistics are better. Numbers are numbers and this is where those who live and die on numbers fall short a lot of the time. Winning in the NFL isn't just about whose numbers are better. It's also about the intangibles like clutch, heart, and, yes, ALL-IN.

It takes a lot to win in the NFL and an individual player's statistics don't really mean much in that regard. Eli has had some iffy seasons in terms of ball control and that's not a surprise to anyone. But he has also come through when it counted so you have to factor it all in to make a realistic assessment of who the better QB is. If Amani had simply said Romo is the statistically better QB over a given period of time and the stats verify that, then it is what it is. Eli is still a better QB than Romo if winning matters.
numbers are not just numbers. its why so many get on gumby, bc he uses a number as a means to define. heres an example of why thats faulty; ok romo may have the higher comp %, but when u consider the number of downfield throws/completions eli has, and the way in which our scheme relies so heavily on those intermediary passes, that eli's completion %, while a few points lower, is actually more impressive...this isnt to say the cowboys dont go downfield, but we led the league in pass attempts of more than 20 yds, and completions of more than 20 yds...eli having near the same completion % of romo actually furthers the fact elis the better qb. whereas gumby, and apparently toomer, look at strictly the numbers that represents completion % for both qbs, and whoevers got the higher % is then defined by them as being more accurate...see how numbers can be so flawed when not put into context?

That's what I said.


lol.
Toomer actually used statistics to define "consistency" and said that is what he looks for in his quarterback. This, of course is laughable because the only thing Romo has done consistently is fail to win playoff games.

Roosevelt
07-07-2012, 12:46 PM
There really isn't a problem with Toomer's assessment of whose statistics are better. Numbers are numbers and this is where those who live and die on numbers fall short a lot of the time. Winning in the NFL isn't just about whose numbers are better. It's also about the intangibles like clutch, heart, and, yes, ALL-IN.

It takes a lot to win in the NFL and an individual player's statistics don't really mean much in that regard. Eli has had some iffy seasons in terms of ball control and that's not a surprise to anyone. But he has also come through when it counted so you have to factor it all in to make a realistic assessment of who the better QB is. If Amani had simply said Romo is the statistically better QB over a given period of time and the stats verify that, then it is what it is. Eli is still a better QB than Romo if winning matters.
numbers are not just numbers. its why so many get on gumby, bc he uses a number as a means to define. heres an example of why thats faulty; ok romo may have the higher comp %, but when u consider the number of downfield throws/completions eli has, and the way in which our scheme relies so heavily on those intermediary passes, that eli's completion %, while a few points lower, is actually more impressive...this isnt to say the cowboys dont go downfield, but we led the league in pass attempts of more than 20 yds, and completions of more than 20 yds...eli having near the same completion % of romo actually furthers the fact elis the better qb. whereas gumby, and apparently toomer, look at strictly the numbers that represents completion % for both qbs, and whoevers got the higher % is then defined by them as being more accurate...see how numbers can be so flawed when not put into context?

That's what I said.


lol.
Toomer actually used statistics to define "consistency" and said that is what he looks for in his quarterback. This, of course is laughable because the only thing Romo has done consistently is fail to win playoff games.

There's nothing wrong with trying to make an argument for how good Romo is. The problem is only in his conclusion.

XxBigWhitxX
07-07-2012, 12:52 PM
Just went over to the Cowboys forums in my curiosity on how their taking this. Only one fan makes sense over there (Casper). the rest are blind.

Joe Morrison
07-07-2012, 01:22 PM
It's simple, Romo has better stats, so did Dan Marino.</P>


Hear the talk that it was the defense, Dallas defense stinks and Giants are good.</P>


So lets get back to Eli, how many games did he take the field with under 3 minutes, behind on the scoreboard thanks to the defense, go down and get the go ahead score, note I said go ahead score.</P>


In the regular season he went on the field against the Packers and led a scoring drive, left the Pack 52 seconds only to see the good defense let them it 3 passes and kick a winning field goal.</P>


How about this past superbowl, that good defense gives up a score at the end of the 1st half and the opening drive of the 2nd half, granted they battled back and got Eli the ball on his own 12 yard line with what 3:21 left, goes down the field and Belichek has to let Bradshaw score just so he can get Brady the ball back. Yes, the good defense stepped up and they won the game but the good defense theory is a little over rated for last season.</P>

Diamondring
07-07-2012, 02:20 PM
It's simple, Romo has better stats, so did Dan Marino.</P>


Hear the talk that it was the defense, Dallas defense stinks and Giants are good.</P>


So lets get back to Eli, how many games did he take the field with under 3 minutes, behind on the scoreboard thanks to the defense, go down and get the go ahead score, note I said go ahead score.</P>


In the regular season he went on the field against the Packers and led a scoring drive, left the Pack 52 seconds only to see the good defense let them it 3 passes and kick a winning field goal.</P>


How about this past superbowl, that good defense gives up a score at the end of the 1st half and the opening drive of the 2nd half, granted they battled back and got Eli the ball on his own 12 yard line with what 3:21 left, goes down the field and Belichek has to let Bradshaw score just so he can get Brady the ball back.* Yes, the good defense stepped up and they won the game but the good defense theory is a little over rated for last season.</P>That does it, you know what? Very good analyses.

jomo
07-07-2012, 03:02 PM
It's simple, Romo has better stats, so did Dan Marino.</P>


Hear the talk that it was the defense, Dallas defense stinks and Giants are good.</P>


So lets get back to Eli, how many games did he take the field with under 3 minutes, behind on the scoreboard thanks to the defense, go down and get the go ahead score, note I said go ahead score.</P>


In the regular season he went on the field against the Packers and led a scoring drive, left the Pack 52 seconds only to see the good defense let them it 3 passes and kick a winning field goal.</P>


How about this past superbowl, that good defense gives up a score at the end of the 1st half and the opening drive of the 2nd half, granted they battled back and got Eli the ball on his own 12 yard line with what 3:21 left, goes down the field and Belichek has to let Bradshaw score just so he can get Brady the ball back. Yes, the good defense stepped up and they won the game but the good defense theory is a little over rated for last season.</P><FONT color=#ff0000>Please don't confuse AT with a deep and thoughtful analysis. </FONT>

sc_markt
07-07-2012, 05:06 PM
AMANI TOOMER DOESN'T BACK DOWN, STILL INSISTS ROMO IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK THAN ELI MANNING (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/amani-toomer-back-insists-tony-romo-a-better-quarterback-eli-manning-article-1.1109299)

"Amani Toomer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Amani+Toomer) may have
raised the ire of the Giants fans who once cheered him on but he didn't back off
his<a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-giant-amani-toomer-tony-romo-eli-manning-best-quarterback-nfc-east-article-1.1108713">
Tony Romo is better than Eli Manning</a> remarks Friday.<div class="story-body p402_premium">


Toomer, appearing on ESPN Radio with Michael Kay, said he researched the
stats beforehand and that they point to the Cowboy QB.</p>

Ok, if Romo is better, who cares? -- We got two super bowl wins from Eli and that's what matters (at least to me...).

buffyblue
07-07-2012, 05:14 PM
Amani Toomer is accomplishing what he set out to do with his idiotic statements and that is to get folks talking about Amani Toomer.

gradstang
07-07-2012, 06:04 PM
WHY DOES ANYBODY WASTE THEIR TIME WITH THIS NON SENSE!

RoanokeFan
07-07-2012, 07:41 PM
WHY DOES ANYBODY WASTE THEIR TIME WITH THIS NON SENSE!

Why did you?

Morehead State
07-07-2012, 08:03 PM
It's simple, Romo has better stats, so did Dan Marino.</P>


Hear the talk that it was the defense, Dallas defense stinks and Giants are good.</P>


So lets get back to Eli, how many games did he take the field with under 3 minutes, behind on the scoreboard thanks to the defense, go down and get the go ahead score, note I said go ahead score.</P>


In the regular season he went on the field against the Packers and led a scoring drive, left the Pack 52 seconds only to see the good defense let them it 3 passes and kick a winning field goal.</P>


How about this past superbowl, that good defense gives up a score at the end of the 1st half and the opening drive of the 2nd half, granted they battled back and got Eli the ball on his own 12 yard line with what 3:21 left, goes down the field and Belichek has to let Bradshaw score just so he can get Brady the ball back. Yes, the good defense stepped up and they won the game but the good defense theory is a little over rated for last season.</P>


</P>


\Dan Marino was the best pure QB I ever saw. Unfortunately he was essentially a one man team.</P>


Your "sodid Dan Marino" comment was extreemly uninformed.</P>

rebelfan1966
07-07-2012, 08:46 PM
I think I saw John Candy in the stands....

Roosevelt
07-07-2012, 09:18 PM
It's simple, Romo has better stats, so did Dan Marino.</p>


Hear the talk that it was the defense, Dallas defense stinks and Giants are good.</p>


So lets get back to Eli, how many games did he take the field with under 3 minutes, behind on the scoreboard thanks to the defense, go down and get the go ahead score, note I said go ahead score.</p>


In the regular season he went on the field against the Packers and led a scoring drive, left the Pack 52 seconds only to see the good defense let them it 3 passes and kick a winning field goal.</p>


How about this past superbowl, that good defense gives up a score at the end of the 1st half and the opening drive of the 2nd half, granted they battled back and got Eli the ball on his own 12 yard line with what 3:21 left, goes down the field and Belichek has to let Bradshaw score just so he can get Brady the ball back. Yes, the good defense stepped up and they won the game but the good defense theory is a little over rated for last season.</p>


</p>


\Dan Marino was the best pure QB I ever saw. Unfortunately he was essentially a one man team.</p>


Your "sodid Dan Marino" comment was extreemly uninformed.</p>

Yes, that made no sense at all. Dan Marino is an all-time great QB. Eli and Romo are not on that level.

rebelfan1966
07-08-2012, 12:23 AM
For that matter, Archie Manning was a great QB.... just on a really bad team.

Morehead State
07-08-2012, 03:10 PM
For that matter, Archie Manning was a great QB.... just on a really bad team.</P>


He wasa great college QB. Bad team or not, I thought he was just an OK NFL QB. He had a lot of athletic ability but was still a mistake prone player.</P>

Roosevelt
07-08-2012, 03:24 PM
For that matter, Archie Manning was a great QB.... just on a really bad team.

Not that I saw that much of him, but I never thought of Archie as being a great player. I saw him as one of the few bright spots on some very bad football teams.

jomo
07-08-2012, 03:56 PM
WHY DOES ANYBODY WASTE THEIR TIME WITH THIS NON SENSE!

Why did you?
LIne drive back up the middle but it was served up like slow pitch softball. [;)]

jakegibbs
07-08-2012, 04:29 PM
WHY DOES ANYBODY WASTE THEIR TIME WITH THIS NON SENSE!

Why did you?
LIne drive back up the middle but it was served up like slow pitch softball. [;)]

Man the Cowboy's Message Board is eating Toomer up as being the greatest since sliced bread. When some have posted about Troy being on as talented team as Eli here's the post of the day as called by many on that board.

" Troy Aikman did everything asked of him and asked for nothing extra in return.

Unlike the 'numbers' quarterbacks who had to 'get theirs', Aikman was the consumate team player who simply wanted to win.

If he was in a 'passing offense' with his arm strength, accuracy , and abilities, his numbers would have been astronomical.

But, at the end of the day, the only 'number' that Aikman cared about was the number of championships his team won.

And for me, that's the most important number of all."

Man oh man that sure sounds like a current QB that plays for New York don't it?

jakegibbs
07-08-2012, 04:33 PM
Whoops here's the link. Don't know how to set it up properly though.

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238529&page=8

RoanokeFan
07-08-2012, 05:14 PM
WHY DOES ANYBODY WASTE THEIR TIME WITH THIS NON SENSE!

Why did you?
LIne drive back up the middle but it was served up like slow pitch softball. [;)]

[H]

NYGRealityCheck
07-08-2012, 06:30 PM
A bunch of sports analysts even till this day fail to understand the game behind stats only like Eli's preparations for upcoming opponents, locker room leadership, developing WRs in the team's offensive system, not taking Jessica Simpson on a vacation to Mexico right before a playoff game, etc...

Joe Morrison
07-08-2012, 09:04 PM
A bunch of sports analysts even till this day fail to understand the game behind stats only like Eli's preparations for upcoming opponents, locker room leadership, developing WRs in the team's offensive system, not taking Jessica Simpson on a vacation to Mexico right before a playoff game, etc...</P>


DITTO</P>

SweetZombieJesus
07-08-2012, 09:13 PM
Here's a stat: 2-0

Oh and Rhomo had TO, and Witten to throw to (while Eli had 3 different starting TEs).

fourth&forever
07-08-2012, 09:15 PM
SZJ: I gotta say your sig is awesome.

Harooni
07-08-2012, 09:16 PM
toomer makes a valid point, could Eli win a SB without TC and the great team around him.

but i still disagree romo is better.

Cool Papa B.
07-08-2012, 09:40 PM
SZJ: I gotta say your sig is awesome.

+1

Best signature on this forum.

egyptian420
07-08-2012, 09:45 PM
toomer makes a valid point, could Eli win a SB without TC and the great team around him.

but i still disagree romo is better.

Could Any QB win a SB without a great coach and team around them?

GameTime
07-08-2012, 09:54 PM
toomer makes a valid point, could Eli win a SB without TC and the great team around him.

but i still disagree romo is better.

many a good coach / QB tandems have LOST SBs too...

jakegibbs
07-09-2012, 07:18 AM
toomer makes a valid point, could Eli win a SB without TC and the great team around him.

but i still disagree romo is better.


Only if he put them on his back & carried them into the playoffs like he did last year. Seemed like the team woke up once he carried them to the playoffs & took off. The rest was as they say history.

Morehead State
07-09-2012, 08:03 AM
toomer makes a valid point, could Eli win a SB without TC and the great team around him.

but i still disagree romo is better.
Only if he put them on his back &amp; carried them into the playoffs like he did last year. Seemed like the team woke up once he carried them to the playoffs &amp; took off. The rest was as they say history.</P>


Pure bologna.</P>


You denigrate every Giant with this assertion.</P>

GMENAGAIN
07-09-2012, 09:00 AM
Here we go again . . . . .

Morehead State
07-09-2012, 09:10 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>

GMENAGAIN
07-09-2012, 09:18 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>


</P>


For whatever it is worth, I agree with you that Eli didn't "carry the team" . . . . but I also don't think that we win the SB without Eli . . . . </P>

GCGiant
07-09-2012, 09:51 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champs*that we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made my*position known*and you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>

You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has.

This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.

Morehead State
07-09-2012, 09:54 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>


</P>


For whatever it is worth, I agree with you that Eli didn't "carry the team" . . . . but I also don't think that we win the SB without Eli . . . . </P>


</P>


I think thats rather obvious.</P>

Morehead State
07-09-2012, 10:01 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.</P>


Did Victor Cruz have anything to do with that? How about JPP? How about Hakeem Nicks? Do we credit Michael Boley at all? Should we ignore The impact of our punting game?</P>


The fact is that our team was treading water at 7-7 until Victor Cruz made an all time great play on a ten yard pass, splitting the defenders and outrunning the entire Jets defense. Before that, we were mediocre at best. We lost to the Redskins twice. We lost to Seattle at home. We lost to Philly with Vince Young at QB at home. We were going nowhere. Then Cruz made a great play and for some reason, our entire team elevated their game and we did what we did.</P>


Eli was a constant. he was outstanding all year. But we were not very good until week 16.Our SB win was a product of every facet of the team coming together to win 6 games at the end of the year.</P>


Without that, we would have missed the playoffs, let alone not win a SB.</P>

dezzzR
07-09-2012, 10:10 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</p>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</p>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</p>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</p>

You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has.

This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a
team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <u>he kind of
carried that team on his shoulder</u>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article. I dont understand why its such a sin to say. Its just another way of saying he led the giants imo

Morehead State
07-09-2012, 10:12 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <U>he kind of carried that team on his shoulder</U>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article.
</P>


He did at Ol' Miss. It doesn't happen in the NFL.</P>

Diamondring
07-09-2012, 10:13 AM
The saying you want to use is Eli had a great impact on the team.

dezzzR
07-09-2012, 10:18 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</p>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</p>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</p>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</p>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <u>he kind of carried that team on his shoulder</u>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article.
</p>


He did at Ol' Miss. It doesn't happen in the NFL.</p>Well Im just glad youre acknowledging a player can carry a team.

burier
07-09-2012, 10:20 AM
Amani please shut up while some of us still love you.

Did he just say he was ready to say Romo sucks and then he did his job witch is to look at stats???

Gimme a break dude. Any asshat can go on NFL dot Com and see that Romo has a better career QB rating than Manning,

That's your job? To state the obvious?

I'd hope that a former player would have a little more insight than simple stat comparison.

AND THEN...he has the nerve to say that Eli had stronger supporting casts.



SINCE WHEN AMANI!

(The Giants were 7 point Dogs against The Cowboys in the 07 playoffs)

Because as I recall it the Giant weren't even picked to win their own division AFTER winning the Superbowl.

In fact as I recall every single year Dallas or Philly are picked to come out of the East. Never the Giants.

Isn't Dallas picked to be better than the Giants AGAIN this year???

And I'm sorry...Did I just get done debating weather T.O. was the second best WR of ALL TIME?

Isn't Jason Witten in the Pro Bowl every year?

Didn't Rob Ryan Compare Demarcus Ware favorably to Lawrence Taylor???

What the hell is he even talking about?

Romo has had nothing but big time players to throw the ball to from Owens to Bryant and Big time players on defense.

So now Romo gets credit because Wade Phillips is a ****ty coach????

I'm pretty sure Wade didn't have anything to do With Romo not getting that snap down.

And I'm pretty sure Wade didn't have anything to do with Romo chucking that game away to the Lions.

Actually...Now that I think about it...Romo has never beaten the Giants with Jason Garret coaching. I guess he's a sucky coach too.

Amani, you said something stupid and you got your 15 minutes. Now please shut up.

Morehead State
07-09-2012, 10:24 AM
The saying you want to use is Eli had a great impact on the team.</P>


Eli hater!</P>

RoanokeFan
07-09-2012, 10:36 AM
The saying you want to use is Eli had a great impact on the team.</p>


Eli hater!</p>

I've marked my calendar! [;)]

ShakeNBake
07-09-2012, 10:40 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</p>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</p>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</p>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</p>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <u>he kind of carried that team on his shoulder</u>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article.
</p>


He did at Ol' Miss. It doesn't happen in the NFL.</p>Well Im just glad youre acknowledging a player can carry a team.


These guys are pros, the vast majority of college players do not make it to the NFL, so carrying a team in college is completely different than carrying a team in the NFL(just ask tim tebow)

GMENAGAIN
07-09-2012, 10:52 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>


</P>


For whatever it is worth, I agree with you that Eli didn't "carry the team" . . . . but I also don't think that we win the SB without Eli . . . . </P>


</P>


I think thats rather obvious.</P>


</P>


I specialize in stating the obvious . . . . . .</P>

Morehead State
07-09-2012, 11:25 AM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>


</P>


For whatever it is worth, I agree with you that Eli didn't "carry the team" . . . . but I also don't think that we win the SB without Eli . . . . </P>


</P>


I think thats rather obvious.</P>


</P>


I specialize in stating the obvious . . . . . .</P>


</P>


Then well done my son!</P>

pino
07-09-2012, 12:12 PM
I was a bit surprised that Amani made his comments being Eli was his QB and all, but I don't think he was taking a shot at Eli. Both QB's are good. I've always hated the fact that the Cowboys have Romo to lead their offense, and if I hate you then I respect you.

I'm happy we have Eli and I wouldn't trade him for Romo. The things I like about Eli don't show up in numbers; he's tough, he's cool under pressure, he's clutch, he makes his teammates better, he can make the big throws, he understands the offense, and you know what, his numbers are pretty good too.

If Eli had any other last name (and another team) he wouldn't be getting the disrespect he gets now. When it's all said and done, he'll probably be yet another Giant in the HOF. He may not be the greatest or "elite" in some minds, but he's better than Kerry Collins and he's better than Phil Simms (yeah I said it). That makes him one of the best, if not the best, QB the Giants have had so far.

Diamondring
07-09-2012, 12:18 PM
Here we go again . . . . .</p>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champs*that we are some kind of "one man team".</p>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</p>


But I've made my*position known*and you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</p>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <u>he kind of carried that team on his shoulder</u>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article.
</p>


He did at Ol' Miss.* It doesn't happen in the NFL.</p>Well Im just glad youre acknowledging a player can carry a team.


These guys are pros, the vast majority of college players do not make it to the NFL, so carrying a team in college is completely different than carrying a team in the NFL(just ask tim tebow)
Well no player can carry a team cause other players are doing their thing. Yet one player can have a great inpact by his numbers or production wich are stats. Another part of stats posters don't look at is when they happen like the 4th quarter where Eli shined or the playoffs wich Toomer did not mention when he talked about Eli and Romo.

Romo may be better in the regular season but in the playoffs and Superbowl, that is Eli. Even in the regular season, Romo's production is not all that better than Eli's.

Eli or no qb can carry a team since the qb will sit down when his defense is on the field so if he is not on the field, then he might not be doing anything on it.

Yes a lot of players don't make it in the NFL but after Eli does his thing, he is not on the field and other players take over so his team's defense is going against the opponent's offense. This can make Eli have nothing to do with the outcome since he is not on the field.

Eli has guys protecting him and without that protection, Eli is doing nothiing or very little no matter if it is in college or the pros. If his receivers aren't able to get open or have the angle on a defender also unable to catch the ball, Eli will not have stats or production.

Inorder to really see how well Eli played, you will have to look at the way he played the game.

A pro team can be weak so the players who do get in the NFL are not that good all of the time. Yes players get in the pros but they may not be good players though cause of the way they played in the NFL

MattMeyerBud
07-09-2012, 12:25 PM
AMANI TOOMER DOESN'T BACK DOWN, STILL INSISTS ROMO IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK THAN ELI MANNING (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/amani-toomer-back-insists-tony-romo-a-better-quarterback-eli-manning-article-1.1109299)

"Amani Toomer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Amani+Toomer) may have raised the ire of the Giants fans who once cheered him on but he didn't back off his Tony Romo is better than Eli Manning (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-giant-amani-toomer-tony-romo-eli-manning-best-quarterback-nfc-east-article-1.1108713) remarks Friday.
<DIV class="story-body p402_premium">


Toomer, appearing on ESPN Radio with Michael Kay, said he researched the stats beforehand and that they point to the Cowboy QB.</P>


"I'm not dissing Eli," he told Kay. "It's more of an affirmation of Tony Romo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tony+Romo) and how good he is."</P>


Toomer's argument is that Romo's stats are better and that Manning has been on better teams with better support, hence his eight playoff wins (and two Super Bowls) to Romo's one.</P>


"Of course he's proved he can do it but he's proved that he could do it within the function of a great team, a great organization, the same head coach and he's been in the same system the entire time," he said of his ex-teammate.</P>


"I talked with Zach Thomas who played with Tony Romo under Wade Phillips and he said it was a joke. They were listening to rap music before the practices. They weren't focusing in at all. And what's Tony Romo going to do in that type of situation?</P>


"There are a lot of advantages that Eli has had and I realize that he's taken advantage of them but you've got to look at the numbers and how productive Tony Romo has been over his entire career and you've got to match up the numbers."</P>


In fact, Toomer took that a little further.</P>


"I think you belittle the rest of the Giants by saying Eli's won eight playoff games, Eli's won this," he said. "He has but he's been on some really good teams that jelled well together on these playoff runs."</P>


Toomer said he was ready to pile on Romo a couple of weeks ago, but was doing some show prep for his SIRIUS radio show with Tom Ryan when he began to look at Romo differently.</P>


"I was all set ... Romo's no good, he's a fourth-quarter choke and then I started doing my job," he said. "I started looking at the numbers, I started looking at the fourth quarter statistics. I started looking at the quarterback rating and was shocked. I was shocked at how good Tony Romo's statistics really were. This guy is very impressive."</P>


Then, on Thursday his co-host, Tim Ryan, said that Manning was the best QB in the NFC East and predicted that the Giants would win the division again.</P>


"And I was like, 'wait a minute.' All this information I had gathered on Tony Romo, I couldn't let him get away with it," Toomer said. "So I said, 'you know what? Tony Romo could be statistically a better quarterback.'"</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he had to pick either to win a game with, which QB he'd pick. He said it was an unfair question because he played with Manning who is No. 1 in his heart.</P>


"I love Eli. I respect the hell out of him," he said. "But I've got to do my job and go beyond what the perception is because perception doesn't go hand in hand with the reality."</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he understand the reaction of Giants fans who have lumped him in with Tiki Barber, another Manning critic.</P>


"I do and I love the Giants fans as well. I also have a job to do and I don't think they'd want me to just sit up there and wave my Giants flag," he said. "I don't think I'd have as much credibility on the national stage. I'm</P>


trying to be as objective as I can and I hope Giants fans understand that.</P>


"I loved being a Giant and I love Eli Manning. He was one of the best guys I ever played with. He was the guy who after I got released by the Giants, he was the only one who stepped up and gave me a phone call and told me how much he appreciated my help to develop him as a quarterback."</P></DIV>


</P>


</P>


i disagree with Eli had it better, Romo always had the top TE in the league, had TO when he was TO, caught a good year out of Terry Glenn, had Miles Austin break out, then got Dezz Bryant, and then had a random explosion out of Laurent Robinson....</P>


</P>


I mean Giants haven't had slouches but if u really compare it Romo had more weapons while the Giant had good weapons but got raped with injuries between Plax, Hixon, Smith, Nicks, Boss, Ballard, and you can even throw Shockey in on that as well. The turnover Eli has had to deal with in what is not a receiver friendly offense (in terms of grasping it) has been amazing.</P>


</P>


Obviously Romo gets the check mark for better ball protection, but thats about it.</P>


</P>


</P>

sharick88
07-09-2012, 12:29 PM
I was a bit surprised that Amani made his comments being Eli was his QB and all, but I don't think he was taking a shot at Eli. Both QB's are good. I've always hated the fact that the Cowboys have Romo to lead their offense, and if I hate you then I respect you.

I'm happy we have Eli and I wouldn't trade him for Romo. The things I like about Eli don't show up in numbers; he's tough, he's cool under pressure, he's clutch, he makes his teammates better, he can make the big throws, he understands the offense, and you know what, his numbers are pretty good too.

If Eli had any other last name (and another team) he wouldn't be getting the disrespect he gets now. When it's all said and done, he'll probably be yet another Giant in the HOF. He may not be the greatest or "elite" in some minds, but he's better than Kerry Collins and he's better than Phil Simms (yeah I said it). That makes him one of the best, if not the best, QB the Giants have had so far.

I don't think he meant to either, but friendly fire bullets feel the same as bullets that were meant to hit you. Toomer should know better than this. Loose lips sink ships

Roosevelt
07-09-2012, 12:30 PM
I was a bit surprised that Amani made his comments being Eli was his QB and all, but I don't think he was taking a shot at Eli. Both QB's are good. I've always hated the fact that the Cowboys have Romo to lead their offense, and if I hate you then I respect you.

I'm happy we have Eli and I wouldn't trade him for Romo. The things I like about Eli don't show up in numbers; he's tough, he's cool under pressure, he's clutch, he makes his teammates better, he can make the big throws, he understands the offense, and you know what, his numbers are pretty good too.

If Eli had any other last name (and another team) he wouldn't be getting the disrespect he gets now. When it's all said and done, he'll probably be yet another Giant in the HOF. He may not be the greatest or "elite" in some minds, but he's better than Kerry Collins and he's better than Phil Simms (yeah I said it). That makes him one of the best, if not the best, QB the Giants have had so far.

I don't think Amani was trying to take a shot at Eli either. He mentioned a number of times he was just trying to give an impartial opinion.

Ratings-wise, Romo is the better QB. He is also more athletic, so he looks better than Eli.

Let's face it, having Eli on your team is a lot like having Gomer Pyle as your quarterback in Mayberry. He certainly isn't pretty, but it's all is good.

And lastly, I'll pretend you didn't make that Simms comment.

[;)]

Roosevelt
07-09-2012, 12:36 PM
Here we go again . . . . .</p>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</p>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</p>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</p>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <u>he kind of carried that team on his shoulder</u>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article.
</p>


He did at Ol' Miss. It doesn't happen in the NFL.</p>Well Im just glad youre acknowledging a player can carry a team.


These guys are pros, the vast majority of college players do not make it to the NFL, so carrying a team in college is completely different than carrying a team in the NFL(just ask tim tebow)
Well no player can carry a team cause other players are doing their thing. Yet one player can have a great inpact by his numbers or production wich are stats. Another part of stats posters don't look at is when they happen like the 4th quarter where Eli shined or the playoffs wich Toomer did not mention when he talked about Eli and Romo.

Romo may be better in the regular season but in the playoffs and Superbowl, that is Eli. Even in the regular season, Romo's production is not all that better than Eli's.

Eli or no qb can carry a team since the qb will sit down when his defense is on the field so if he is not on the field, then he might not be doing anything on it.

Yes a lot of players don't make it in the NFL but after Eli does his thing, he is not on the field and other players take over so his team's defense is going against the opponent's offense. This can make Eli have nothing to do with the outcome since he is not on the field.

Eli has guys protecting him and without that protection, Eli is doing nothiing or very little no matter if it is in college or the pros. If his receivers aren't able to get open or have the angle on a defender also unable to catch the ball, Eli will not have stats or production.

Inorder to really see how well Eli played, you will have to look at the way he played the game.

A pro team can be weak so the players who do get in the NFL are not that good all of the time. Yes players get in the pros but they may not be good players though cause of the way they played in the NFL

I've said this all along but I'll say it again.

Eli moves well within the pocket. He has a very good sense of pressure and moves just enough to get off his passes.

Phil used to hang back there waiting until the last second to make a throw despite the fact that he was going to get nailed.

Eli is different. Eli avoids contact by being shiftier than Phil was.

RoanokeFan
07-09-2012, 12:39 PM
Here we go again . . . . .</p>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</p>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</p>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</p>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <u>he kind of carried that team on his shoulder</u>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article.
</p>


He did at Ol' Miss. It doesn't happen in the NFL.</p>Well Im just glad youre acknowledging a player can carry a team.


These guys are pros, the vast majority of college players do not make it to the NFL, so carrying a team in college is completely different than carrying a team in the NFL(just ask tim tebow)
Well no player can carry a team cause other players are doing their thing. Yet one player can have a great inpact by his numbers or production wich are stats. Another part of stats posters don't look at is when they happen like the 4th quarter where Eli shined or the playoffs wich Toomer did not mention when he talked about Eli and Romo.

Romo may be better in the regular season but in the playoffs and Superbowl, that is Eli. Even in the regular season, Romo's production is not all that better than Eli's.

Eli or no qb can carry a team since the qb will sit down when his defense is on the field so if he is not on the field, then he might not be doing anything on it.

Yes a lot of players don't make it in the NFL but after Eli does his thing, he is not on the field and other players take over so his team's defense is going against the opponent's offense. This can make Eli have nothing to do with the outcome since he is not on the field.

Eli has guys protecting him and without that protection, Eli is doing nothiing or very little no matter if it is in college or the pros. If his receivers aren't able to get open or have the angle on a defender also unable to catch the ball, Eli will not have stats or production.

Inorder to really see how well Eli played, you will have to look at the way he played the game.

A pro team can be weak so the players who do get in the NFL are not that good all of the time. Yes players get in the pros but they may not be good players though cause of the way they played in the NFL

I've said this all along but I'll say it again.

Eli moves well within the pocket. He has a very good sense of pressure and moves just enough to get off his passes.

Phil used to hang back there waiting until the last second to make a throw despite the fact that he was going to get nailed.

Eli is different. Eli avoids contact by being shiftier than Phil was.






+1 and he is always looking to improve his game.

pino
07-09-2012, 12:47 PM
I was a bit surprised that Amani made his comments being Eli was his QB and all, but I don't think he was taking a shot at Eli. Both QB's are good. I've always hated the fact that the Cowboys have Romo to lead their offense, and if I hate you then I respect you.

I'm happy we have Eli and I wouldn't trade him for Romo. The things I like about Eli don't show up in numbers; he's tough, he's cool under pressure, he's clutch, he makes his teammates better, he can make the big throws, he understands the offense, and you know what, his numbers are pretty good too.

If Eli had any other last name (and another team) he wouldn't be getting the disrespect he gets now. When it's all said and done, he'll probably be yet another Giant in the HOF. He may not be the greatest or "elite" in some minds, but he's better than Kerry Collins and he's better than Phil Simms (yeah I said it). That makes him one of the best, if not the best, QB the Giants have had so far.

I don't think he meant to either, but friendly fire bullets feel the same as bullets that were meant to hit you. Toomer should know better than this. Loose lips sink ships

I understand. I don't blame anyone for disliking the comments. I didn't agree with them either. Any fallback is Toomer's doing. To be honest, I don't think Romo numbers are SO much better than Eli's as Toomer makes it out to be.

Romo is just made for the highlight reel. He's a mobile, althetic QB that can throw on the run better than Eli. I'll give him that, but he has yet to show the world that he can make the big time throws when the team needs it. Eli has done it time and time again.

Put it this way. If Eli was on the Cowboys, making the same big time throws, can you imagine how different the past 5 years would have been? I know, it's an ugly picture.

Roosevelt
07-09-2012, 01:27 PM
Here we go again . . . . .</p>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champsthat we are some kind of "one man team".</p>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</p>


But I've made myposition knownand you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</p>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <u>he kind of carried that team on his shoulder</u>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article.
</p>


He did at Ol' Miss. It doesn't happen in the NFL.</p>Well Im just glad youre acknowledging a player can carry a team.


These guys are pros, the vast majority of college players do not make it to the NFL, so carrying a team in college is completely different than carrying a team in the NFL(just ask tim tebow)
Well no player can carry a team cause other players are doing their thing. Yet one player can have a great inpact by his numbers or production wich are stats. Another part of stats posters don't look at is when they happen like the 4th quarter where Eli shined or the playoffs wich Toomer did not mention when he talked about Eli and Romo.

Romo may be better in the regular season but in the playoffs and Superbowl, that is Eli. Even in the regular season, Romo's production is not all that better than Eli's.

Eli or no qb can carry a team since the qb will sit down when his defense is on the field so if he is not on the field, then he might not be doing anything on it.

Yes a lot of players don't make it in the NFL but after Eli does his thing, he is not on the field and other players take over so his team's defense is going against the opponent's offense. This can make Eli have nothing to do with the outcome since he is not on the field.

Eli has guys protecting him and without that protection, Eli is doing nothiing or very little no matter if it is in college or the pros. If his receivers aren't able to get open or have the angle on a defender also unable to catch the ball, Eli will not have stats or production.

Inorder to really see how well Eli played, you will have to look at the way he played the game.

A pro team can be weak so the players who do get in the NFL are not that good all of the time. Yes players get in the pros but they may not be good players though cause of the way they played in the NFL

I've said this all along but I'll say it again.

Eli moves well within the pocket. He has a very good sense of pressure and moves just enough to get off his passes.

Phil used to hang back there waiting until the last second to make a throw despite the fact that he was going to get nailed.

Eli is different. Eli avoids contact by being shiftier than Phil was.






+1 and he is always looking to improve his game.


Which you really have to admire. The guy is grounded and takes his job seriously.

We are very fortunate to have him.

yoeddy
07-09-2012, 01:37 PM
AMANI TOOMER DOESN'T BACK DOWN, STILL INSISTS ROMO IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK THAN ELI MANNING (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/amani-toomer-back-insists-tony-romo-a-better-quarterback-eli-manning-article-1.1109299)

"Amani Toomer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Amani+Toomer) may have raised the ire of the Giants fans who once cheered him on but he didn't back off his Tony Romo is better than Eli Manning (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-giant-amani-toomer-tony-romo-eli-manning-best-quarterback-nfc-east-article-1.1108713) remarks Friday.
<DIV class="story-body p402_premium">


Toomer, appearing on ESPN Radio with Michael Kay, said he researched the stats beforehand and that they point to the Cowboy QB.</P>


"I'm not dissing Eli," he told Kay. "It's more of an affirmation of Tony Romo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tony+Romo) and how good he is."</P>


Toomer's argument is that Romo's stats are better and that Manning has been on better teams with better support, hence his eight playoff wins (and two Super Bowls) to Romo's one.</P>


"Of course he's proved he can do it but he's proved that he could do it within the function of a great team, a great organization, the same head coach and he's been in the same system the entire time," he said of his ex-teammate.</P>


"I talked with Zach Thomas who played with Tony Romo under Wade Phillips and he said it was a joke. They were listening to rap music before the practices. They weren't focusing in at all. And what's Tony Romo going to do in that type of situation?</P>


"There are a lot of advantages that Eli has had and I realize that he's taken advantage of them but you've got to look at the numbers and how productive Tony Romo has been over his entire career and you've got to match up the numbers."</P>


In fact, Toomer took that a little further.</P>


"I think you belittle the rest of the Giants by saying Eli's won eight playoff games, Eli's won this," he said. "He has but he's been on some really good teams that jelled well together on these playoff runs."</P>


Toomer said he was ready to pile on Romo a couple of weeks ago, but was doing some show prep for his SIRIUS radio show with Tom Ryan when he began to look at Romo differently.</P>


"I was all set ... Romo's no good, he's a fourth-quarter choke and then I started doing my job," he said. "I started looking at the numbers, I started looking at the fourth quarter statistics. I started looking at the quarterback rating and was shocked. I was shocked at how good Tony Romo's statistics really were. This guy is very impressive."</P>


Then, on Thursday his co-host, Tim Ryan, said that Manning was the best QB in the NFC East and predicted that the Giants would win the division again.</P>


"And I was like, 'wait a minute.' All this information I had gathered on Tony Romo, I couldn't let him get away with it," Toomer said. "So I said, 'you know what? Tony Romo could be statistically a better quarterback.'"</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he had to pick either to win a game with, which QB he'd pick. He said it was an unfair question because he played with Manning who is No. 1 in his heart.</P>


"I love Eli. I respect the hell out of him," he said. "But I've got to do my job and go beyond what the perception is because perception doesn't go hand in hand with the reality."</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he understand the reaction of Giants fans who have lumped him in with Tiki Barber, another Manning critic.</P>


"I do and I love the Giants fans as well. I also have a job to do and I don't think they'd want me to just sit up there and wave my Giants flag," he said. "I don't think I'd have as much credibility on the national stage. I'm</P>


trying to be as objective as I can and I hope Giants fans understand that.</P>


"I loved being a Giant and I love Eli Manning. He was one of the best guys I ever played with. He was the guy who after I got released by the Giants, he was the only one who stepped up and gave me a phone call and told me how much he appreciated my help to develop him as a quarterback."</P></DIV>


</P>


*</P>


i disagree with Eli had it better, Romo always had the top TE in the league, had TO when he was TO, caught a good year out of Terry Glenn, had Miles Austin break out, then got Dezz Bryant, and then had a random explosion out of Laurent Robinson....</P>


*</P>


I mean Giants haven't had slouches but if u really compare it Romo had more weapons while the Giant had good weapons but got raped with injuries between Plax, Hixon, Smith, Nicks, Boss, Ballard, and you can even throw Shockey in on that as well. The turnover Eli has had to deal with in what is not a receiver friendly offense (in terms of grasping it) has been amazing.</P>


*</P>


Obviously Romo gets the check mark for better ball protection, but thats about it.</P>


*</P>


*</P>

Toomer pointed out (and I agree) that Eli has had the better coach and better organization over what Romo has had.

GameTime
07-09-2012, 03:04 PM
Amani is just pissed because he had to spend his last years with a QB in training so to speak. He has commented on how when he would turn around that he never knew where the ball would be. Not saying he is wrong about that but he is crying in his cereal a liitle bit if you ask me....

buddy33
07-09-2012, 03:33 PM
He didn't take a shot at Eli, he was just being honest. Well when he said it he was anyway. The next day he tried to back his way out of it.

Toomer, you think Romo is better and that is ok. Stick with hat and please stop trying to say you would rather play with Eli. I'm not buying it. Not after yo said Romo was the better and QB and if you where a GM you would draft Romo over Eli. No way you would rather play for the lesser of 2 players.

jakegibbs
07-09-2012, 04:01 PM
AMANI TOOMER DOESN'T BACK DOWN, STILL INSISTS ROMO IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK THAN ELI MANNING (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/amani-toomer-back-insists-tony-romo-a-better-quarterback-eli-manning-article-1.1109299)

"Amani Toomer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Amani+Toomer) may have raised the ire of the Giants fans who once cheered him on but he didn't back off his Tony Romo is better than Eli Manning (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-giant-amani-toomer-tony-romo-eli-manning-best-quarterback-nfc-east-article-1.1108713) remarks Friday.
<DIV class="story-body p402_premium">


Toomer, appearing on ESPN Radio with Michael Kay, said he researched the stats beforehand and that they point to the Cowboy QB.</P>


"I'm not dissing Eli," he told Kay. "It's more of an affirmation of Tony Romo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tony+Romo) and how good he is."</P>


Toomer's argument is that Romo's stats are better and that Manning has been on better teams with better support, hence his eight playoff wins (and two Super Bowls) to Romo's one.</P>


"Of course he's proved he can do it but he's proved that he could do it within the function of a great team, a great organization, the same head coach and he's been in the same system the entire time," he said of his ex-teammate.</P>


"I talked with Zach Thomas who played with Tony Romo under Wade Phillips and he said it was a joke. They were listening to rap music before the practices. They weren't focusing in at all. And what's Tony Romo going to do in that type of situation?</P>


"There are a lot of advantages that Eli has had and I realize that he's taken advantage of them but you've got to look at the numbers and how productive Tony Romo has been over his entire career and you've got to match up the numbers."</P>


In fact, Toomer took that a little further.</P>


"I think you belittle the rest of the Giants by saying Eli's won eight playoff games, Eli's won this," he said. "He has but he's been on some really good teams that jelled well together on these playoff runs."</P>


Toomer said he was ready to pile on Romo a couple of weeks ago, but was doing some show prep for his SIRIUS radio show with Tom Ryan when he began to look at Romo differently.</P>


"I was all set ... Romo's no good, he's a fourth-quarter choke and then I started doing my job," he said. "I started looking at the numbers, I started looking at the fourth quarter statistics. I started looking at the quarterback rating and was shocked. I was shocked at how good Tony Romo's statistics really were. This guy is very impressive."</P>


Then, on Thursday his co-host, Tim Ryan, said that Manning was the best QB in the NFC East and predicted that the Giants would win the division again.</P>


"And I was like, 'wait a minute.' All this information I had gathered on Tony Romo, I couldn't let him get away with it," Toomer said. "So I said, 'you know what? Tony Romo could be statistically a better quarterback.'"</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he had to pick either to win a game with, which QB he'd pick. He said it was an unfair question because he played with Manning who is No. 1 in his heart.</P>


"I love Eli. I respect the hell out of him," he said. "But I've got to do my job and go beyond what the perception is because perception doesn't go hand in hand with the reality."</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he understand the reaction of Giants fans who have lumped him in with Tiki Barber, another Manning critic.</P>


"I do and I love the Giants fans as well. I also have a job to do and I don't think they'd want me to just sit up there and wave my Giants flag," he said. "I don't think I'd have as much credibility on the national stage. I'm</P>


trying to be as objective as I can and I hope Giants fans understand that.</P>


"I loved being a Giant and I love Eli Manning. He was one of the best guys I ever played with. He was the guy who after I got released by the Giants, he was the only one who stepped up and gave me a phone call and told me how much he appreciated my help to develop him as a quarterback."</P></DIV>


</P>


*</P>


i disagree with Eli had it better, Romo always had the top TE in the league, had TO when he was TO, caught a good year out of Terry Glenn, had Miles Austin break out, then got Dezz Bryant, and then had a random explosion out of Laurent Robinson....</P>


*</P>


I mean Giants haven't had slouches but if u really compare it Romo had more weapons while the Giant had good weapons but got raped with injuries between Plax, Hixon, Smith, Nicks, Boss, Ballard, and you can even throw Shockey in on that as well. The turnover Eli has had to deal with in what is not a receiver friendly offense (in terms of grasping it) has been amazing.</P>


*</P>


Obviously Romo gets the check mark for better ball protection, but thats about it.</P>


*</P>


*</P>

Toomer pointed out (and I agree) that Eli has had the better coach and better organization over what Romo has had.

Better organization??? Who's America's Team & has the best organization in Sports?? Go the the Cowboy message board & ask. They can give you 1000 examples.

bluesince86
07-09-2012, 04:23 PM
Here we go again . . . . .</P>


I know and I'm not getting into it again, but I am sick of the contant insult to the SB champs*that we are some kind of "one man team".</P>


We are actually the "ultimate team" and our championship was a geniune team effort.</P>


But I've made my*position known*and you can all talk amongst yourselves now.</P>


You might as well ask everyone in the world to stop using the phrase of "carrying a team"...because if Eli didn't carry the Giants last year, then nobody in history ever has. This is a classic case of a team struggling due to injuries, etc., through the regular season...trying to get key players on the field...but there was one guy who was on the field throughout the season and made enough big plays to put them in a position to make a run once everything gelled and key players returned to the line-up...or fished off the street...whatever the case was.John Mara even said "Also, [Manning] was on a team at Ole Miss that didn't have a tremendous amount of talent and <U>he kind of carried that team on his shoulder</U>," in the John Mara reminisces picking Eli over Ben article.
</P>


He did at Ol' Miss.* It doesn't happen in the NFL.</P>

I do agree that the Giants SB 46 win was a full team effort, but I dont agree that a QB carrying a team in the NFL doesnt happen. The Colts proved last year that a QB can in fact carry a team in the NFL. It may not happen often, but it does happen

Gianthunter
07-09-2012, 04:40 PM
I was a bit surprised that Amani made his comments being Eli was his QB and all, but I don't think he was taking a shot at Eli. Both QB's are good. I've always hated the fact that the Cowboys have Romo to lead their offense, and if I hate you then I respect you. I'm happy we have Eli and I wouldn't trade him for Romo. The things I like about Eli don't show up in numbers; he's tough, he's cool under pressure, he's clutch, he makes his teammates better, he can make the big throws, he understands the offense, and you know what, his numbers are pretty good too. If Eli had any other last name (and another team) he wouldn't be getting the disrespect he gets now. When it's all said and done, he'll probably be yet another Giant in the HOF. He may not be the greatest or "elite" in some minds,<FONT size=6> but he's better than Kerry Collins and he's better than Phil Simms (yeah I said it).</FONT> That makes him one of the best, if not the best, QB the Giants have had so far.

I don't think Amani was trying to take a shot at Eli either. He mentioned a number of times he was just trying to give an impartial opinion.

Ratings-wise, Romo is the better QB. He is also more athletic, so he looks better than Eli.

Let's face it, having Eli on your team is a lot like having Gomer Pyle as your quarterback in Mayberry. He certainly isn't pretty, but it's all is good.

And lastly, I'll pretend you didn't make that Simms comment.

[;)]

He's right [;)]

TrueBlue@NYC
07-09-2012, 06:51 PM
AMANI TOOMER DOESN'T BACK DOWN, STILL INSISTS ROMO IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK THAN ELI MANNING (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/amani-toomer-back-insists-tony-romo-a-better-quarterback-eli-manning-article-1.1109299)

"Amani Toomer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Amani+Toomer) may have raised the ire of the Giants fans who once cheered him on but he didn't back off his Tony Romo is better than Eli Manning (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-giant-amani-toomer-tony-romo-eli-manning-best-quarterback-nfc-east-article-1.1108713) remarks Friday.
<DIV class="story-body p402_premium">


Toomer, appearing on ESPN Radio with Michael Kay, said he researched the stats beforehand and that they point to the Cowboy QB.</P>


"I'm not dissing Eli," he told Kay. "It's more of an affirmation of Tony Romo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tony+Romo) and how good he is."</P>


Toomer's argument is that Romo's stats are better and that Manning has been on better teams with better support, hence his eight playoff wins (and two Super Bowls) to Romo's one.</P>


"Of course he's proved he can do it but he's proved that he could do it within the function of a great team, a great organization, the same head coach and he's been in the same system the entire time," he said of his ex-teammate.</P>


"I talked with Zach Thomas who played with Tony Romo under Wade Phillips and he said it was a joke. They were listening to rap music before the practices. They weren't focusing in at all. And what's Tony Romo going to do in that type of situation?</P>


"There are a lot of advantages that Eli has had and I realize that he's taken advantage of them but you've got to look at the numbers and how productive Tony Romo has been over his entire career and you've got to match up the numbers."</P>


In fact, Toomer took that a little further.</P>


"I think you belittle the rest of the Giants by saying Eli's won eight playoff games, Eli's won this," he said. "He has but he's been on some really good teams that jelled well together on these playoff runs."</P>


Toomer said he was ready to pile on Romo a couple of weeks ago, but was doing some show prep for his SIRIUS radio show with Tom Ryan when he began to look at Romo differently.</P>


"I was all set ... Romo's no good, he's a fourth-quarter choke and then I started doing my job," he said. "I started looking at the numbers, I started looking at the fourth quarter statistics. I started looking at the quarterback rating and was shocked. I was shocked at how good Tony Romo's statistics really were. This guy is very impressive."</P>


Then, on Thursday his co-host, Tim Ryan, said that Manning was the best QB in the NFC East and predicted that the Giants would win the division again.</P>


"And I was like, 'wait a minute.' All this information I had gathered on Tony Romo, I couldn't let him get away with it," Toomer said. "So I said, 'you know what? Tony Romo could be statistically a better quarterback.'"</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he had to pick either to win a game with, which QB he'd pick. He said it was an unfair question because he played with Manning who is No. 1 in his heart.</P>


"I love Eli. I respect the hell out of him," he said. "But I've got to do my job and go beyond what the perception is because perception doesn't go hand in hand with the reality."</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he understand the reaction of Giants fans who have lumped him in with Tiki Barber, another Manning critic.</P>


"I do and I love the Giants fans as well. I also have a job to do and I don't think they'd want me to just sit up there and wave my Giants flag," he said. "I don't think I'd have as much credibility on the national stage. I'm</P>


trying to be as objective as I can and I hope Giants fans understand that.</P>


"I loved being a Giant and I love Eli Manning. He was one of the best guys I ever played with. He was the guy who after I got released by the Giants, he was the only one who stepped up and gave me a phone call and told me how much he appreciated my help to develop him as a quarterback."</P></DIV>


</P>


</P>


i disagree with Eli had it better, Romo always had the top TE in the league, had TO when he was TO, caught a good year out of Terry Glenn, had Miles Austin break out, then got Dezz Bryant, and then had a random explosion out of Laurent Robinson....</P>


</P>


I mean Giants haven't had slouches but if u really compare it Romo had more weapons while the Giant had good weapons but got raped with injuries between Plax, Hixon, Smith, Nicks, Boss, Ballard, and you can even throw Shockey in on that as well. The turnover Eli has had to deal with in what is not a receiver friendly offense (in terms of grasping it) has been amazing.</P>


</P>


Obviously Romo gets the check mark for better ball protection, but thats about it.</P>


</P>


</P>


Toomer pointed out (and I agree) that Eli has had the better coach and better organization over what Romo has had.</P>


I agree Eli has had the better HC and certainly better organization, but it's not exactly like Romo's had multiple difference OCs' throughout his career. He's been with Jason Garrett his whole career, running essentially the same offense. </P>


And he's had very good talent at the skill positions throughout his career as well. He's got better stats, but that's about it. Stafford had amazing stats this year, I guess that means he's better than both Eli and Romo. </P>

Diamondring
07-09-2012, 07:38 PM
AMANI TOOMER DOESN'T BACK DOWN, STILL INSISTS ROMO IS A BETTER QUARTERBACK THAN ELI MANNING (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/amani-toomer-back-insists-tony-romo-a-better-quarterback-eli-manning-article-1.1109299)

"Amani Toomer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Amani+Toomer) may have raised the ire of the Giants fans who once cheered him on but he didn't back off his Tony Romo is better than Eli Manning (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/ny-giant-amani-toomer-tony-romo-eli-manning-best-quarterback-nfc-east-article-1.1108713) remarks Friday.
<DIV class="story-body p402_premium">


Toomer, appearing on ESPN Radio with Michael Kay, said he researched the stats beforehand and that they point to the Cowboy QB.</P>


"I'm not dissing Eli," he told Kay. "It's more of an affirmation of Tony Romo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tony+Romo) and how good he is."</P>


Toomer's argument is that Romo's stats are better and that Manning has been on better teams with better support, hence his eight playoff wins (and two Super Bowls) to Romo's one.</P>


"Of course he's proved he can do it but he's proved that he could do it within the function of a great team, a great organization, the same head coach and he's been in the same system the entire time," he said of his ex-teammate.</P>


"I talked with Zach Thomas who played with Tony Romo under Wade Phillips and he said it was a joke. They were listening to rap music before the practices. They weren't focusing in at all. And what's Tony Romo going to do in that type of situation?</P>


"There are a lot of advantages that Eli has had and I realize that he's taken advantage of them but you've got to look at the numbers and how productive Tony Romo has been over his entire career and you've got to match up the numbers."</P>


In fact, Toomer took that a little further.</P>


"I think you belittle the rest of the Giants by saying Eli's won eight playoff games, Eli's won this," he said. "He has but he's been on some really good teams that jelled well together on these playoff runs."</P>


Toomer said he was ready to pile on Romo a couple of weeks ago, but was doing some show prep for his SIRIUS radio show with Tom Ryan when he began to look at Romo differently.</P>


"I was all set ... Romo's no good, he's a fourth-quarter choke and then I started doing my job," he said. "I started looking at the numbers, I started looking at the fourth quarter statistics. I started looking at the quarterback rating and was shocked. I was shocked at how good Tony Romo's statistics really were. This guy is very impressive."</P>


Then, on Thursday his co-host, Tim Ryan, said that Manning was the best QB in the NFC East and predicted that the Giants would win the division again.</P>


"And I was like, 'wait a minute.' All this information I had gathered on Tony Romo, I couldn't let him get away with it," Toomer said. "So I said, 'you know what? Tony Romo could be statistically a better quarterback.'"</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he had to pick either to win a game with, which QB he'd pick. He said it was an unfair question because he played with Manning who is No. 1 in his heart.</P>


"I love Eli. I respect the hell out of him," he said. "But I've got to do my job and go beyond what the perception is because perception doesn't go hand in hand with the reality."</P>


Kay asked Toomer if he understand the reaction of Giants fans who have lumped him in with Tiki Barber, another Manning critic.</P>


"I do and I love the Giants fans as well. I also have a job to do and I don't think they'd want me to just sit up there and wave my Giants flag," he said. "I don't think I'd have as much credibility on the national stage. I'm</P>


trying to be as objective as I can and I hope Giants fans understand that.</P>


"I loved being a Giant and I love Eli Manning. He was one of the best guys I ever played with. He was the guy who after I got released by the Giants, he was the only one who stepped up and gave me a phone call and told me how much he appreciated my help to develop him as a quarterback."</P></DIV>


</P>


*</P>


i disagree with Eli had it better, Romo always had the top TE in the league, had TO when he was TO, caught a good year out of Terry Glenn, had Miles Austin break out, then got Dezz Bryant, and then had a random explosion out of Laurent Robinson....</P>


*</P>


I mean Giants haven't had slouches but if u really compare it Romo had more weapons while the Giant had good weapons but got raped with injuries between Plax, Hixon, Smith, Nicks, Boss, Ballard, and you can even throw Shockey in on that as well. The turnover Eli has had to deal with in what is not a receiver friendly offense (in terms of grasping it) has been amazing.</P>


*</P>


Obviously Romo gets the check mark for better ball protection, but thats about it.</P>


*</P>


*</P>


Toomer pointed out (and I agree) that Eli has had the better coach and better organization over what Romo has had.</P>


I agree Eli has had the better HC and certainly better organization, but it's not exactly like Romo's had multiple difference OCs' throughout his career. He's been with Jason Garrett his whole career, running essentially the same offense. </P>


And he's had very good talent at the skill positions throughout his career as well. He's got better stats, but that's about it. Stafford had amazing stats this year, I guess that means he's better than both Eli and Romo. </P>Very good.

G-Men Surg.
07-09-2012, 07:48 PM
I don't get this from Amani, he prefers to have nice stats during the season from his QB and by addition bulked stats from his WR than to win in the postseason and of course winning in the big dance ? I guess the world is coming to an end if this is true !

rebelfan1966
07-11-2012, 12:55 PM
For that matter, Archie Manning was a great QB.... just on a really bad team.</P>


He wasa great college QB. Bad team or not, I thought he was just an OK NFL QB. He had a lot of athletic ability but was still a mistake prone player.</P>


</P>


When you are on a bad team...aka the "AINTS"..... it is easy to make mistakes while trying to make something out of nothing. </P>

Morehead State
07-11-2012, 01:18 PM
For that matter, Archie Manning was a great QB.... just on a really bad team.</P>


He was*a great college QB.* Bad team or not, I thought he was just an OK NFL QB.* He had a lot of athletic ability but was still a mistake prone player.</P>


</P>


When you are on a bad team...aka the "AINTS"..... it is easy to make mistakes while trying to make something out of nothing. </P>
If he was a truly great QB, his presence on the team would have made them better.
Like Dan Marino, John Elway and Peyton Manning.
I just never thought he was that good of a pro QB. Obviously a college legend.

byron
07-11-2012, 02:14 PM
For that matter, Archie Manning was a great QB.... just on a really bad team.</P>


He wasa great college QB. Bad team or not, I thought he was just an OK NFL QB. He had a lot of athletic ability but was still a mistake prone player.</P>


</P>


When you are on a bad team...aka the "AINTS"..... it is easy to make mistakes while trying to make something out of nothing. </P> If he was a truly great QB, his presence on the team would have made them better. Like Dan Marino, John Elway and Peyton Manning. I just never thought he was that good of a pro QB. Obviously a college legend. with great genes....