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giantsfan420
07-15-2012, 04:39 PM
I was watching a clip about how eli has developed over his career, and Eric Mangini made the point that Eli is the best example of how you'd want a qb to develop over his career once being drafted by a team.

So, that made me wonder, which would you guys prefer;
Have a QB like Peyton come in who pretty much fully develops over one season, and reach his potential/ceiling after that year

or

a QB like Eli, who develops over the course of his career. WHo isn't nearly as effective as early as a qb like peyton, but who ultimately may have a higher ceiling and level of play in his prime

I actually think thats what happened with Rivers. He hit his ceiling almost immediately, but thats where his play will max out...

ashleymarie
07-15-2012, 04:57 PM
The mighty Peyton was not going to be denied. He broke records right and left, his onfield presence was something to reckon with. He won a superbowl title in his 7th season (2006 season).

Eli faltered some, still broke records tho, his onfield presence scared no one. He won a lombardi in his 4th season (2007 season). Now I think of him as the mighty Eli. I still love Peyton, but Eli has arrived.

Im not sure which was the best route to take. Not Peyton's way or Eli's way, but the man himself would be my preference.

giantsfan420
07-15-2012, 04:59 PM
The mighty Peyton was not going to be denied. He broke records right and left, his onfield presence was something to reckon with. He won a superbowl title in his 7th season (2006 season).

Eli faltered some, still broke records tho, his onfield presence scared no one. He won a lombardi in his 4th season (2007 season). Now I think of him as the mighty Eli. I still love Peyton, but Eli has arrived.

you cant go wrong with either type of qb. but which would u prefer, a more immediate success with somewhat limited upside, or a more prolonged development and a higher upside?

ashleymarie
07-15-2012, 05:04 PM
I prefer the MAN himself to the way he arrived to his current station. I love Peyton. I love Eli. Eli has a better team behind him and in front of him. He isn't as flashy as Peyton. I would choose Eli.

jomo
07-15-2012, 05:06 PM
The mighty Peyton was not going to be denied. He broke records right and left, his onfield presence was something to reckon with. He won a superbowl title in his 7th season (2006 season). Eli faltered some, still broke records tho, his onfield presence scared no one. He won a lombardi in his 4th season (2007 season). Now I think of him as the mighty Eli. I still love Peyton, but Eli has arrived. you cant go wrong with either type of qb. but which would u prefer, a more immediate success with somewhat limited upside, or a more prolonged development and a higher upside?I am not understanding this question at all. In one section you talk about Peyton reaching a high level sooner in his career but then you talk abouta quarterback with more immediate success with somewhat limited upside. Is that how you define Peyton's trajectory? I am totally confused here.

jomo
07-15-2012, 05:10 PM
I think the confusion comes because you introduce names and personalities. Let me simplify this without the names. Would you rather have an elite quaterback who's skils can win you a Super Bowl for 15 prime years or one that will be at that level for8 years?</P>


At that point it's a simple math questions. Those of you who chose8 years will need to repeat the class. [:)]</P>

ashleymarie
07-15-2012, 05:11 PM
I also think a team owner/manager/coach would like to have a Peyton-like qb development. Fast and thorough. Someone to dominate the game from the get-go.

gmen0820
07-15-2012, 05:14 PM
Peyton's, because the ceiling he has set and consistently reached for 11 straight years has arguably entrenched him as the best QB to ever play the game.

GmenFan1980
07-15-2012, 05:16 PM
The mighty Peyton was not going to be denied. He broke records right and left, his onfield presence was something to reckon with. He won a superbowl title in his 7th season (2006 season).

Eli faltered some, still broke records tho, his onfield presence scared no one. He won a lombardi in his 4th season (2007 season). Now I think of him as the mighty Eli. I still love Peyton, but Eli has arrived.

Im not sure which was the best route to take. Not Peyton's way or Eli's way, but the man himself would be my preference.

Just for clarification Peyton won his first in his 9th season (1998-2006) I believe he played and started his entire rookie season, so you can't really skip over it

BeatYale
07-15-2012, 05:28 PM
I was watching a clip about how eli has developed over his career, and Eric Mangini made the point that Eli is the best example of how you'd want a qb to develop over his career once being drafted by a team.

So, that made me wonder, which would you guys prefer;
Have a QB like Peyton come in who pretty much fully develops over one season, and reach his potential/ceiling after that year

or

a QB like Eli, who develops over the course of his career. WHo isn't nearly as effective as early as a qb like peyton, but who ultimately may have a higher ceiling and level of play in his prime

I actually think thats what happened with Rivers. He hit his ceiling almost immediately, but thats where his play will max out...

So....because Eli hasn't been as productive or consistent as others at his position, it means he hasn't hit his potential. Meanwhile for a guy like Rivers, who's dusted Eli statistically through out the years, it means a ceiling has been hit and his production will flat line?

Excellent logic.

What exactly is your criteria for determining that a player has hit a ceiling / capped his potential?

giantsfan420
07-15-2012, 05:38 PM
The mighty Peyton was not going to be denied. He broke records right and left, his onfield presence was something to reckon with. He won a superbowl title in his 7th season (2006 season). Eli faltered some, still broke records tho, his onfield presence scared no one. He won a lombardi in his 4th season (2007 season). Now I think of him as the mighty Eli. I still love Peyton, but Eli has arrived. you cant go wrong with either type of qb. but which would u prefer, a more immediate success with somewhat limited upside, or a more prolonged development and a higher upside?I am not understanding this question at all. In one section you talk about Peyton reaching a high level sooner in his career but then you talk about*a quarterback with more immediate success with somewhat limited upside. Is that how you define Peyton's trajectory? I am totally confused here.

i should have been more clear. i am not talking about peytoon specifically, but qbs who have that similar entering the league and reaching their ceiling quick, but not being able to improve upon that level. i was confusing i know, sorry bout that. peyton was the best example i could think of a player coming in and being pretty much at the level he's gonna be at for his career.

giantsfan420
07-15-2012, 05:39 PM
I think the confusion comes because you introduce names and personalities. Let me simplify this without the names. Would you rather have an elite quaterback who's skils can win you a Super Bowl for 15 prime years or one that will be at that level for*8 years?</P>


At that point it's a simple math questions. Those of you who chose*8 years will need to repeat the class. [:)]</P>

or 1 sb in 15 yrs or 2 in 8...

giantsfan420
07-15-2012, 05:41 PM
I was watching a clip about how eli has developed over his career, and Eric Mangini made the point that Eli is the best example of how you'd want a qb to develop over his career once being drafted by a team.

So, that made me wonder, which would you guys prefer;
Have a QB like Peyton come in who pretty much fully develops over one season, and reach his potential/ceiling after that year

or

a QB like Eli, who develops over the course of his career. WHo isn't nearly as effective as early as a qb like peyton, but who ultimately may have a higher ceiling and level of play in his prime

I actually think thats what happened with Rivers. He hit his ceiling almost immediately, but thats where his play will max out...

So....because Eli hasn't been as productive or consistent as others at his position, it means he hasn't hit his potential. Meanwhile for a guy like Rivers, who's dusted Eli statistically through out the years, it means a ceiling has been hit and his production will flat line?

Excellent logic.

What exactly is your criteria for determining that a player has hit a ceiling / capped his potential?

i def would characterize like that. rivers came in, was more successful earlier. but he is/was a finished product. he wasnt gonna get any better, what you saw with rivers his 3rd season, is what you'll see with his 9th. whereas eli, who rivers outperformed for their earlier part of their careers, is prob just coming into his prime/ceiling.

edit- and my criteria is not being able to improve on numbers and aspects of their game

lawl
07-15-2012, 06:00 PM
The more years of great play the better. It'd probably be better to be great earlier in your career when the QB is making less money so the talent around him is even better.

giantsfan420
07-15-2012, 06:02 PM
The more years of great play the better. It'd probably be better to be great earlier in your career when the QB is making less money so the talent around him is even better.

i agree. fiscally, that would clearly be the better option.

lawl
07-15-2012, 06:07 PM
The more years of great play the better. It'd probably be better to be great earlier in your career when the QB is making less money so the talent around him is even better. i agree. fiscally, that would clearly be the better option.</P>


The problem is that to get a top qb your team is typically full of scrubs that got you a top pick in the first place.</P>

jakegibbs
07-15-2012, 07:00 PM
I was watching a clip about how eli has developed over his career, and Eric Mangini made the point that Eli is the best example of how you'd want a qb to develop over his career once being drafted by a team.

So, that made me wonder, which would you guys prefer;
Have a QB like Peyton come in who pretty much fully develops over one season, and reach his potential/ceiling after that year

or

a QB like Eli, who develops over the course of his career. WHo isn't nearly as effective as early as a qb like peyton, but who ultimately may have a higher ceiling and level of play in his prime

I actually think thats what happened with Rivers. He hit his ceiling almost immediately, but thats where his play will max out...

Peyton would have been ran out of NYC by the media losing to the Pats in the playoffs what was it 4 straight seasons in a row or something like that. Then it started up again with the Chargers. He would have been chop liver in all the press clipings I'd bet.

Mercury
07-16-2012, 10:57 AM
Honestly, I view their careers as being more similar than the rest of you. I think the biggest difference is that there are more really good QBs now than there were then. Peyton only had to compete for the spotlight with Brady. Who else was even close to them? Farve, eh, maybe?

Eli, competes with Rodgers, Brees, Brady, and Peyton for that top spot. And there are others who are pretty talented too, like Big Ben, Romo, and Rivers. These guys put up some pretty freaking good stats.

Furthermore, Eli has been compared to his brother for his whole career. Eli, may not have as pretty stats, but he puts up very good stats and his progression has brought him into the upper echelon of QB.

It took Peyton about seven years to reach the peak of his performance. And honestly, I think this is the year Eli shows he is #1.

Jiffy Jeff
07-16-2012, 11:07 AM
I believe in Eli!!!!!



But I also believe in in UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot, so...............

NY_Eli
07-16-2012, 11:43 AM
I'm not buying that it's one or the other. There's no reason to think that a QB can't play well early on and continue to get even better over the course of his career.

Diamondring
07-16-2012, 11:50 AM
Eli played in all kinds of conditrions while his brotha had a luxery playing in a nice warm dome in the winter and cool in the summer.

Flip Empty
07-16-2012, 11:58 AM
Are we really comparing Eli with Peyton? Jesus, the season can't come quick enough.

greenca190
07-16-2012, 12:47 PM
I was watching a clip about how eli has developed over his career, and Eric Mangini made the point that Eli is the best example of how you'd want a qb to develop over his career once being drafted by a team.

So, that made me wonder, which would you guys prefer;
Have a QB like Peyton come in who pretty much fully develops over one season, and reach his potential/ceiling after that year

or

a QB like Eli, who develops over the course of his career. WHo isn't nearly as effective as early as a qb like peyton, but who ultimately may have a higher ceiling and level of play in his prime

I actually think thats what happened with Rivers. He hit his ceiling almost immediately, but thats where his play will max out...

So....because Eli hasn't been as productive or consistent as others at his position, it means he hasn't hit his potential. Meanwhile for a guy like Rivers, who's dusted Eli statistically through out the years, it means a ceiling has been hit and his production will flat line?

Excellent logic.

What exactly is your criteria for determining that a player has hit a ceiling / capped his potential?

My criteria? Spinal surgery.

yoeddy
07-16-2012, 12:49 PM
I was watching a clip about how eli has developed over his career, and Eric Mangini made the point that Eli is the best example of how you'd want a qb to develop over his career once being drafted by a team.

So, that made me wonder, which would you guys prefer;
Have a QB like Peyton come in who pretty much fully develops over one season, and reach his potential/ceiling after that year

or

a QB like Eli, who develops over the course of his career. WHo isn't nearly as effective as early as a qb like peyton, but who ultimately may have a higher ceiling and level of play in his prime

I actually think thats what happened with Rivers. He hit his ceiling almost immediately, but thats where his play will max out...

My preference would be to draft a QB and have him play at HOF-level from his first snap through his entire 15 year career. But obviously that almost never happens, so the next preference is to have a QB come in and get progressively better every year, peaking as soon as possible and sustaining that level of performance for 5-10 years.

The worst case in all of these scenarios would be for the peak performance of said QB to be lower than championship-quality....

gumby742
07-16-2012, 01:36 PM
I was watching a clip about how eli has developed over his career, and Eric Mangini made the point that Eli is the best example of how you'd want a qb to develop over his career once being drafted by a team. So, that made me wonder, which would you guys prefer; Have a QB like Peyton come in who pretty much fully develops over one season, and reach his potential/ceiling after that year or a QB like Eli, who develops over the course of his career. WHo isn't nearly as effective as early as a qb like peyton, but who ultimately may have a higher ceiling and level of play in his prime I actually think thats what happened with Rivers. He hit his ceiling almost immediately, but thats where his play will max out... My preference would be to draft a QB and have him play at HOF-level from his first snap through his entire 15 year career. But obviously that almost never happens, so the next preference is to have a QB come in and get progressively better every year, peaking as soon as possible and sustaining that level of performance for 5-10 years. The worst case in all of these scenarios would be for the peak performance of said QB to be lower than championship-quality....</P>


Consistently great,but lower ceiling since day 1. I'm all about consistency.</P>


When we draft, one of the words i hate is "up-side". That imo, has "bust" written all over it. Just like "non stop motor" = not athletic.</P>


Although, i don't agree with your Peyton has a lower ceiling than Eli statement, but that's not relevant to the conversation.</P>

gmen0820
07-16-2012, 01:38 PM
Peyton would have been ran out of NYC by the media losing to the Pats in the playoffs what was it 4 straight seasons in a row or something like that. Then it started up again with the Chargers. He would have been chop liver in all the press clipings I'd bet.Yeah...Peyton wouldn't have lost to the Pats 4x in the playoffs as an NFC team. Let's not get into hypotheticals.

SweetZombieJesus
07-16-2012, 01:52 PM
I'd rather have Peyton (so that the level of high performance lasts longer) but there is a certain satisfaction in watching a player mature over the course of his career.

1986Bavaro
07-16-2012, 03:24 PM
Well now that we are here, I prefer Eli's trajectory!!!