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TuckYou
07-16-2012, 11:37 AM
THIBODAUX, La. -- Peyton Manning (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/12531/peyton-manning), the underdog. Eli Manning (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493004/eli-manning), the alpha dog. </P>


No, you're not in another dimension. You're in today's reality. </P>


A reality not many people ever imagined. Peyton has always been the headliner, and Eli the undercard. But numerous neck surgeries later for Peyton and a second Lombardi Trophy for Eli last season, and the perception of the Manning brothers has been flipped upside down. </P>


Eli is the proven one. Peyton now has something to prove. </P>


This weekend at the annual Manning Passing Academy at Nicholls State, both quarterbacks downplayed the polar-opposite routes their careers took in the past year. </P>


When asked whether he has something to prove to himself, Peyton responded quickly and simply, "No." Eli dismissed the role-reversal notion as well. </P>


"Peyton's a four-time MVP and a Super Bowl champion," Eli said. "He's coming off an injury, but he's going to be ready to play. I've got to worry about getting my team ready." </P>


Leave it to the Manning clan's elder statesman to call it like everyone else sees it. </P>


"2012 [was] so much fun for the Giants, to win another Super Bowl," Archie Manning said. "But then for Peyton -- we look at the plusses, the fact he worked so hard and got himself back healthy. The Indy thing was tough. It was tough on everybody, tough on him, tough on our family, I think tough for some people in Indy. But it happens, so I was very proud of the way he handled it, and then he had to turn around and find a new team and that was hard. </P>


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19589811/manning-role-reversal-as-questions-dog-peyton-eli-has-all-the-answers</P>

Toadofsteel
07-16-2012, 12:17 PM
What the media thinks the Manning brothers are (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_QW63tmTuc)

How they really are (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImhDl1bYenI)
</p>

Cool Papa B.
07-16-2012, 01:16 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

giantsfan420
07-16-2012, 01:36 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

Cool Papa B.
07-16-2012, 01:53 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

burier
07-16-2012, 04:54 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

Mercury
07-16-2012, 05:34 PM
Peyton's accomplishments are enough to make him part of the discussion, "Who is the best QB to ever play the game."

Eli is building his own HOF career, and who knows, he may when all is said and done with, be better than Peyton.

However, neither of their careers are over. So, comparing them is premature.

Toadofsteel
07-16-2012, 05:36 PM
There was actually a thing where skip bayless of all people basically said "Eli doesn't fit the media image of a superstar QB, even though he plays like one. As such, it's hard to view Eli as a superstar".

ShakeNBake
07-16-2012, 06:44 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

Are you a surgeon? Are you an expert in neck rehabilitation after surgery ? No? Then you know as much about what you're talking about as the previous poster who you made that condescending remark to. Fact of the matter is no matter how hard you try you can not determine who the better quarterback is because they are both still active, so it is just a matter of opinion.

Anyway, the points that you are trying to make to backup your claim that Eli is better are ridiculous, such as claiming that Eli is better than Peyton because Eli beat Brady earlier in his career than Peyton did. Newsflash, there are more variables involved that influence a football game outside of the two starting qbs, so again that argument is ludicrous. The only way to objectively compare the two would be to look at their stats, which at this point in time Peyton has the edge. Again, this is just a matter of opinion which I just wanted to point out considering how you're carrying yourself like an asshat.

JMFP2
07-16-2012, 08:01 PM
If I were to compare Eli Manning to another QB, I'd have to go with Bart Starr.

Starr wasn't flashy.....he just got **** done when there was no other option.

burier
07-17-2012, 09:37 AM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

Are you a surgeon? Are you an expert in neck rehabilitation after surgery ? No? Then you know as much about what you're talking about as the previous poster who you made that condescending remark to.* Fact of the matter is no matter how hard you try you can not determine who the better quarterback is because they are both still active, so it is just a matter of opinion.

Anyway, the points that you are trying to make to backup your claim that Eli is better are ridiculous, such as claiming that Eli is better than Peyton because Eli beat Brady earlier in his career than Peyton did. Newsflash, there are more variables involved that influence a football game outside of the two starting qbs, so again that argument is ludicrous. The only way to objectively compare the two would be to look at their stats, which at this point in time Peyton has the edge. Again, this is just a matter of opinion which I just wanted to point out considering how you're carrying yourself like an asshat.


Fine I'll be the asshat.

Good job by you for cherry picking my points only to offer no real counter.

I don't believe I need to be a surgeon to say "maybe we should hold off on assuming the guy won't skip a beat." Not that Peyton's health was the main idea of my post anyway. To the contrary I go on to assume that Peyton is back to form.

I find it funny how you say there are too many variables to consider in my Brady comparison and then go on to say we should compare stats. News Flash: Variables impact stats just as much a variables impact outcomes of games. If we say every argument is invalid due to variables there would be nothing about football left to debate.

Speaking of variables and how they impact stats and wins. I actually addressed a few. Like QUALITY OF OPPONENT, WEATHER and QUALITY OF SURROUNDING TEAM MEMBERS.

But since you seemed to miss it, I'll repeat. (Whats the point in quoting someone's post if you're going to ignore 98 percent of it?)

From where I stand, over the past 10 years the NFC East has been stronger than the AFC South. Point Eli.

From where I stand over the past 10 years its been more difficult to Quarterback outdoors in New Jersey than it is to Quarterback indoors in Indiana. Point Eli.

From where I stand Eli has played on offense with 0 potential Hall Of Famers compared to Peyton who has played with at least 2 locks for the Hall Of Fame. Point Eli.


Moving on.

I didn't make the rules so you should simmer down. You may not like it but Quarterbacks are compared based on Feats or wins.

I can scream all I want that Dan Marino was better than Tom Brady ever thought about being and no one is going to listen because of FEATS! Championships! LORE! It favors Brady so Brady wins.

Right now the "I refuse to admit I don't know what I'm talking about syndrome" Is holding people back from giving Eli his due.

BUT one day there will be new analysts. Analysts who haven't spent 8 years trashing Eli who can call it objectively. And when it's called objectively Eli's combination of feats and championships already puts him in rarefied air.

miked1958
07-17-2012, 10:12 AM
What the media thinks the Manning brothers are (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_QW63tmTuc) How they really are (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImhDl1bYenI) </P>


haha</P>


forgot about those. lol</P>

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 10:12 AM
THIBODAUX, La. -- Peyton Manning (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/12531/peyton-manning), the underdog. Eli Manning (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493004/eli-manning), the alpha dog. </P>


No, you're not in another dimension. You're in today's reality. </P>


A reality not many people ever imagined. Peyton has always been the headliner, and Eli the undercard. But numerous neck surgeries later for Peyton and a second Lombardi Trophy for Eli last season, and the perception of the Manning brothers has been flipped upside down. </P>


Eli is the proven one. Peyton now has something to prove. </P>


This weekend at the annual Manning Passing Academy at Nicholls State, both quarterbacks downplayed the polar-opposite routes their careers took in the past year. </P>


When asked whether he has something to prove to himself, Peyton responded quickly and simply, "No." Eli dismissed the role-reversal notion as well. </P>


"Peyton's a four-time MVP and a Super Bowl champion," Eli said. "He's coming off an injury, but he's going to be ready to play. I've got to worry about getting my team ready." </P>


Leave it to the Manning clan's elder statesman to call it like everyone else sees it. </P>


"2012 [was] so much fun for the Giants, to win another Super Bowl," Archie Manning said. "But then for Peyton -- we look at the plusses, the fact he worked so hard and got himself back healthy. The Indy thing was tough. It was tough on everybody, tough on him, tough on our family, I think tough for some people in Indy. But it happens, so I was very proud of the way he handled it, and then he had to turn around and find a new team and that was hard. </P>


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19589811/manning-role-reversal-as-questions-dog-peyton-eli-has-all-the-answers</P>
Peyton may be the greatest QB in NFL history. He's certainly in the top 3. He really doesn't have anything to prove at all. I can see the media spin on that, but in reality he's just a flat great QB no matter what happens from here on out.

GMENAGAIN
07-17-2012, 10:16 AM
THIBODAUX, La. -- Peyton Manning (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/12531/peyton-manning), the underdog. Eli Manning (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493004/eli-manning), the alpha dog. </P>


No, you're not in another dimension. You're in today's reality. </P>


A reality not many people ever imagined. Peyton has always been the headliner, and Eli the undercard. But numerous neck surgeries later for Peyton and a second Lombardi Trophy for Eli last season, and the perception of the Manning brothers has been flipped upside down. </P>


Eli is the proven one. Peyton now has something to prove. </P>


This weekend at the annual Manning Passing Academy at Nicholls State, both quarterbacks downplayed the polar-opposite routes their careers took in the past year. </P>


When asked whether he has something to prove to himself, Peyton responded quickly and simply, "No." Eli dismissed the role-reversal notion as well. </P>


"Peyton's a four-time MVP and a Super Bowl champion," Eli said. "He's coming off an injury, but he's going to be ready to play. I've got to worry about getting my team ready." </P>


Leave it to the Manning clan's elder statesman to call it like everyone else sees it. </P>


"2012 [was] so much fun for the Giants, to win another Super Bowl," Archie Manning said. "But then for Peyton -- we look at the plusses, the fact he worked so hard and got himself back healthy. The Indy thing was tough. It was tough on everybody, tough on him, tough on our family, I think tough for some people in Indy. But it happens, so I was very proud of the way he handled it, and then he had to turn around and find a new team and that was hard. </P>


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19589811/manning-role-reversal-as-questions-dog-peyton-eli-has-all-the-answers</P>


Peyton may be the greatest QB in NFL history. He's certainly in the top 3. He really doesn't have anything to prove at all. I can see the media spin on that, but in reality he's just a flat great QB no matter what happens from here on out.</P>


Well put. The idea that Peyton has something to prove is silly.</P>


</P>

TuckYou
07-17-2012, 10:36 AM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peytonhas 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>

Cool Papa B.
07-17-2012, 11:10 AM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date.

Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great.

Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time.

In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 11:13 AM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peytonhas 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

giantsfan420
07-17-2012, 11:45 AM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 12:16 PM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.
If you're going to mention Peyton's struggles early with NE (which he overcame and now owns NE) then you have to mention two of the worst playoff games that any NFL QB has ever had, both by Eli (Carolina and Philly) Two home games where we didn't score a single TD.
You can't exclude one fact for one guy and not the other. Eli was great this playoff run. He was good in the other because he protected the ball, other than that it was right in line with his averages. Peyton has to throw it all over the place because of his teams.

Rudyy
07-17-2012, 12:24 PM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.
If you're going to mention Peyton's struggles early with NE (which he overcame and now owns NE) then you have to mention two of the worst playoff games that any NFL QB has ever had, both by Eli (Carolina and Philly) Two home games where we didn't score a single TD.
You can't exclude one fact for one guy and not the other. Eli was great this playoff run. He was good in the other because he protected the ball, other than that it was right in line with his averages. Peyton has to throw it all over the place because of his teams.But if Eli throws it all over the place, then it's all on Eli.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 12:31 PM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.
If you're going to mention Peyton's struggles early with NE (which he overcame and now owns NE) then you have to mention two of the worst playoff games that any NFL QB has ever had, both by Eli (Carolina and Philly) Two home games where we didn't score a single TD.
You can't exclude one fact for one guy and not the other. Eli was great this playoff run. He was good in the other because he protected the ball, other than that it was right in line with his averages. Peyton has to throw it all over the place because of his teams.But if Eli throws it all over the place, then it's all on Eli.
Last year he had to throw it all over the place because of our weak running game and he did just fine. Not sure what your point is.

giantsfan420
07-17-2012, 12:31 PM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.
If you're going to mention Peyton's struggles early with NE (which he overcame and now owns NE) then you have to mention two of the worst playoff games that any NFL QB has ever had, both by Eli (Carolina and Philly) Two home games where we didn't score a single TD.
You can't exclude one fact for one guy and not the other. Eli was great this playoff run. He was good in the other because he protected the ball, other than that it was right in line with his averages. Peyton has to throw it all over the place because of his teams.

who said anything about excluding elis awful performances? the only difference, eli in the playoffs is 8-3. peyton is 9-10...

and theres a big difference too. the Carolina game, everyone BUT eli failed to show up, which goes for that philly game. i'm sure peytons had a couple losses where it wasnt all on him, but there are a solid 6 or 7 playoff losses where it was on peyton.

and i'd say ben r. has the worst postseason performance by a qb ever...

giantsfan420
07-17-2012, 12:36 PM
but more importantly, peyton doesnt have near the amount of unbelievable postseason performances that eli has, even to he's played in 8 more games...

the amazing 07 run where he played as good as any qb could, and this last one where he played at an even greater level.

eli dominated peyton in the postseason, and u wont find an educated football fan that tells u otherwise. hence, peyton the best reg season qb ever, but completely diff in the postseason.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 12:39 PM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.
If you're going to mention Peyton's struggles early with NE (which he overcame and now owns NE) then you have to mention two of the worst playoff games that any NFL QB has ever had, both by Eli (Carolina and Philly) Two home games where we didn't score a single TD.
You can't exclude one fact for one guy and not the other. Eli was great this playoff run. He was good in the other because he protected the ball, other than that it was right in line with his averages. Peyton has to throw it all over the place because of his teams.

who said anything about excluding elis awful performances? the only difference, eli in the playoffs is 8-3. peyton is 9-10...

and theres a big difference too. the Carolina game, everyone BUT eli failed to show up, which goes for that philly game. i'm sure peytons had a couple losses where it wasnt all on him, but there are a solid 6 or 7 playoff losses where it was on peyton.

and i'd say ben r. has the worst postseason performance by a qb ever...
Ben had a bad SB, but the rest of his post season run was outstanding that year. And Eli was dreadful in the Carolina game. To suggest otherwise (and to what seems to be a Captain Queege argument) is to expose yourself as completey unattached to reality.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 12:46 PM
And I'm not getting into an Eli argument here. My point is that Peyton's productivity has been very good in the playoffs as well as the regular season. He was on a team that had played some pretty horrible defense in the playoffs. This "regular season" argument is wrong. And BTW...in no sport is the regular season more important than football.
But he's been the same guy, making the same plays in the playoffs.

Rudyy
07-17-2012, 12:55 PM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.
If you're going to mention Peyton's struggles early with NE (which he overcame and now owns NE) then you have to mention two of the worst playoff games that any NFL QB has ever had, both by Eli (Carolina and Philly) Two home games where we didn't score a single TD.
You can't exclude one fact for one guy and not the other. Eli was great this playoff run. He was good in the other because he protected the ball, other than that it was right in line with his averages. Peyton has to throw it all over the place because of his teams.But if Eli throws it all over the place, then it's all on Eli.
Last year he had to throw it all over the place because of our weak running game and he did just fine. Not sure what your point is. My point was regardless of whether or not our running game was weak or not, if Eli would have thrown it all over the place, then he would be dubbed inconsistent.

giantsfan420
07-17-2012, 01:05 PM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.
If you're going to mention Peyton's struggles early with NE (which he overcame and now owns NE) then you have to mention two of the worst playoff games that any NFL QB has ever had, both by Eli (Carolina and Philly) Two home games where we didn't score a single TD.
You can't exclude one fact for one guy and not the other. Eli was great this playoff run. He was good in the other because he protected the ball, other than that it was right in line with his averages. Peyton has to throw it all over the place because of his teams.

who said anything about excluding elis awful performances? the only difference, eli in the playoffs is 8-3. peyton is 9-10...

and theres a big difference too. the Carolina game, everyone BUT eli failed to show up, which goes for that philly game. i'm sure peytons had a couple losses where it wasnt all on him, but there are a solid 6 or 7 playoff losses where it was on peyton.

and i'd say ben r. has the worst postseason performance by a qb ever...
Ben had a bad SB, but the rest of his post season run was outstanding that year. And Eli was dreadful in the Carolina game. To suggest otherwise (and to what seems to be a Captain Queege argument) is to expose yourself as completey unattached to reality.
no. the entire team was dreadful.

i call hypocratic double standard. you tout "its a team sport you cant give the credit to eli" when we win

but now, when trying to compare eli and peytons postseason, your trying to hold to a performance and put it all on eli to try and support ur stance on this subject lmfao. peyton had HORRIBLE no td games with 3 ints vs NE before (the difference between him and eli in that regard, is eli has 2 of those performances, peyton has like 10)...your actually trying to say peyton is a better postseason qb, and i'm the one detached from reality?

giantsfan420
07-17-2012, 01:08 PM
so comically hypocritical and a double standard, MS arent you always the one whining about how "people have to knock down another qb to prop up eli."
well, for some reason, ur trying to knock down eli to prop up peyton when theres no basis for it.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 01:43 PM
Honestly, anyone who has seen these 2 QBs knows which QB is better. Peyton is an amazing REGULAR SEASON QB, there is no doubt about it, possible the best EVER.</P>


One thing I keep thinking about though is this:</P>


Peyton*has 1 Superbowl ring, but is 9-10 in the playoffs. Eli has 2 superbowl rings, and is 8-3 in the playoffs. And the thing that really stands out to me and makes me think, is the fact that Tom Brady and the Pats won their superbowls before Eli entered the league. Brady and Belichicks main rival to get there, was Peyton Manning and the Colts. Peyton would have 3 or 4 Championships, IMO, if not for Brady. Yet Eli and company are 2-0 in championship games vs Peytons nemisis. Unphased by the Patriots legacy. Eli and the Giants are holding Brady and Belichick back from gaining the "All Time Greats" status, where Peyton was basically being a doormatt. </P>


If you want to bring up talent around the QBs, then think about this. The 2 teams (Giants and Colts) and very similar in many ways. Pass rushers? Giants had and still have some greats in Strahan, Osi, Tuck and JPP. Colts had Mathis and Freeney, 2 more greats. Giants had Plax, Toomer, Smith, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham while the Colts had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison and Dallas Clark and Pierre Garcon and Anthony Gonzalez. It wasnt like Peyton didnt have the weapons. He also had Edgarrin James and picks like Addai and Brown. Oline for the Colts is very solid anchored by Jeff Saturday like when we had a healthy Shaun OHara (they also look a like), Seubert and Snee and Diehl. </P>


I guess my point is this, the Pats were able to hold Peyton down even though he is arguably the best QB ever, yet Eli and company were able to hold down the Pats several times. It would be a great Superbowl to see the 2 match up. </P>
Another myth about Peyton Manning. The notion that somehow he's a "regular season" QB and not a good playoff QB. Well his performances in the playoffs are outstanding. The difference is that his defense only showed up in one playoff run and Eli's showed up twice..............But Peyton's production has been much better than Eli in the playoffs. Plus he gets there EVERY year.

your dead wrong. they arent even close to outstanding. does he have outstanding playoff performances? yes. but those playoff losses were in LARGE part to him. I remember several of them. for like 3 or 4 yrs, it was "peyton can't handle the NE defense int he postseason"...throwing 3 picks and stuff, getting bounced in brutal fashion.

tuckyou's post is dead on and very accurate. to add to it, Indy actually had better ranked defenses in their runs, and the run games were similar.

and his numbers in the postseason arent even close LMFAO (he may have more of a certain stat, but thats bc hes been in the league longer and to the playoffs more, in terms of ratios its not even close)...and eli has led us to the postseason every season but 2, peyton did it every season but 1. so at least its a clean sweep and u were wrong throughout that post.
If you're going to mention Peyton's struggles early with NE (which he overcame and now owns NE) then you have to mention two of the worst playoff games that any NFL QB has ever had, both by Eli (Carolina and Philly) Two home games where we didn't score a single TD.
You can't exclude one fact for one guy and not the other. Eli was great this playoff run. He was good in the other because he protected the ball, other than that it was right in line with his averages. Peyton has to throw it all over the place because of his teams.

who said anything about excluding elis awful performances? the only difference, eli in the playoffs is 8-3. peyton is 9-10...

and theres a big difference too. the Carolina game, everyone BUT eli failed to show up, which goes for that philly game. i'm sure peytons had a couple losses where it wasnt all on him, but there are a solid 6 or 7 playoff losses where it was on peyton.

and i'd say ben r. has the worst postseason performance by a qb ever...
Ben had a bad SB, but the rest of his post season run was outstanding that year. And Eli was dreadful in the Carolina game. To suggest otherwise (and to what seems to be a Captain Queege argument) is to expose yourself as completey unattached to reality.
no. the entire team was dreadful.

i call hypocratic double standard. you tout "its a team sport you cant give the credit to eli" when we win

but now, when trying to compare eli and peytons postseason, your trying to hold to a performance and put it all on eli to try and support ur stance on this subject lmfao. peyton had HORRIBLE no td games with 3 ints vs NE before (the difference between him and eli in that regard, is eli has 2 of those performances, peyton has like 10)...your actually trying to say peyton is a better postseason qb, and i'm the one detached from reality?
Peyton is just simply a better QB all the time. Eli has shown the ability to pick up his game in the clutch and on rarer occasion, play lousy in the clutch. Peyton is the same but Peyton's baseline is a lot higher. The guy is simply an all time great.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 01:46 PM
so comically hypocritical and a double standard, MS arent you always the one whining about how "people have to knock down another qb to prop up eli."
well, for some reason, ur trying to knock down eli to prop up peyton when theres no basis for it.
Thats not what I did at all. TuckYou made a contrast between Eli and Peyton. Suggesting that Eli came through where Peyton didn't. I pointed out that he was wrong. Then you jumped it.
....And why do you always have to add a personal attack. Make your point and then shut the hell up.

buffyblue
07-17-2012, 01:59 PM
There was actually a thing where skip bayless of all people basically said "Eli doesn't fit the media image of a superstar QB, even though he plays like one. As such, it's hard to view Eli as a superstar".

Skip Bayless is unadulterated detritus. He once claimed that Eli Manning has no leadership qualities and is an idiot. That punk Skip Bayless called our QB an idiot and idiot savant among other things. Skip Bayless can go **** himself.

The comparasion between Eli and Peyton is going to last forever and Eli is not going to compare to him in overall stats except a very telling one, winning percenrage and level of competition in the post season. Peyton Manning has never had a post season to compare to the one Eli Manning just had.

TuckYou
07-17-2012, 02:00 PM
To add a few things after reading some comments:</P>


Eli was horrible in his 3 loses in the postseason no doubt, but Peyton was bad in more then half of his loses, which he has 10. I truely thinka lot has to do with him going to Pittsburg and going to New England playing outside that Dome. If Eli played in a dome, do you think those Carolina and Philly playoff loses are as bad? I doubt it. Eli could not throw at all in that 2008 playoff game in those winds. I remember just watching the ball go from spiral to flip flop ducks in mid air and just die. We needed to run the ball and didnt and couldnt. Lets not forget he just lost his #1 WR a few weeks prior and never could find a replacement. 11-1 with Plax, 1-4 without. It obviously effected the team.</P>


Peyton Manning is probably number 2 on my list all time, behind Montana, maybe Marino.But come playoff time, in a cold outside stadium, Id take Eli. He beat the Packers 2x inGB in the playoffs, both times the Packers were a very very good team. He beat the 49ers in SF while getting smashed on every other play. He beat the Pats in NE on a last second TD to hault their 20 game home win streak. Not sure Peyton would do this stuff. </P>


Either way though both QBs are going to the HOF in my opinion, even with all the Eli hate. Peyton is the better career QB, but eli isnt too far behind especially when including the playoffs. </P>


Peyton and Brady are trying to put a bow on their HOF careers, while Eli is just building his resume.</P>

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 02:11 PM
There was actually a thing where skip bayless of all people basically said "Eli doesn't fit the media image of a superstar QB, even though he plays like one. As such, it's hard to view Eli as a superstar".

Skip Bayless is unadulterated detritus. He once claimed that Eli Manning has no leadership qualities and is an idiot. That punk Skip Bayless called our QB an idiot and idiot savant among other things. Skip Bayless can go **** himself.

The comparasion between Eli and Peyton is going to last forever and Eli is not going to compare to him in overall stats except a very telling one, winning percenrage and level of competition in the post season. Peyton Manning has never had a post season to compare to the one Eli Manning just had.
Its a fair point to say that Eli had an historical playoff run. But that should not be a criticism of Peyton. The run was great, but the entire body of work is still not what some here have suggested. Peyton is just a more competent player. He is in pre season, regular season and in the playoffs. Don't forget that Peyton also has a SB MVP, and played damn well in other one. The Indy defense couldn't stop Drew Brees.
Lets just be careful to give credit to players for what they do on the field and resist criticizing players for what they can't control. Eli had nothing to do with the harrassment of Tom Brady by the Giants defense in 2 SB's. Peyton had nothing to do with a Indy secondary that couldn't cover me.

GMENAGAIN
07-17-2012, 02:22 PM
There was actually a thing where skip bayless of all people basically said "Eli doesn't fit the media image of a superstar QB, even though he plays like one. As such, it's hard to view Eli as a superstar". Skip Bayless is unadulterated detritus. He once claimed that Eli Manning has no leadership qualities and is an idiot. That punk Skip Bayless called our QB an idiot and idiot savant among other things. Skip Bayless can go **** himself. The comparasion between Eli and Peyton is going to last forever and Eli is not going to compare to him in overall stats except a very telling one, winning percenrage and level of competition in the post season. Peyton Manning has never had a post season to compare to the one Eli Manning just had. Its a fair point to say that Eli had an historical playoff run. But that should not be a criticism of Peyton. The run was great, but the entire body of work is still not what some here have suggested. Peyton is just a more competent player. He is in pre season, regular season and in the playoffs. Don't forget that Peyton also has a SB MVP, and played damn well in other one. The Indy defense couldn't stop Drew Brees. Lets just be careful to give credit to players for what they do on the field and resist criticizing players for what they can't control. Eli had nothing to do with the harrassment of Tom Brady by the Giants defense in 2 SB's. Peyton had nothing to do with a Indy secondary that couldn't cover me.</P>


I don't believe that Eli's body of work is better than Peyton's yet, but Peyton did throw that brutal pick six late in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl . . . . that playdefinitely put a dentin the legacy . . . . . . </P>

gmen46
07-17-2012, 02:30 PM
To add a few things after reading some comments:</P>


Eli was horrible in his 3 loses in the postseason no doubt, but Peyton was bad in more then half of his loses, which he has 10. I truely think*a lot has to do with him going to Pittsburg and going to New England playing outside that Dome. If Eli played in a dome, do you think those Carolina and Philly playoff loses are as bad? I doubt it. Eli could not throw at all in that 2008 playoff game in those winds. I remember just watching the ball go from spiral to flip flop ducks in mid air and just die. We needed to run the ball and didnt and couldnt. Lets not forget he just lost his #1 WR a few weeks prior and never could find a replacement. 11-1 with Plax, 1-4 without. It obviously effected the team.</P>


Peyton Manning is probably number 2 on my list all time, behind Montana, maybe Marino.*But come playoff time, in a cold outside stadium, Id take Eli. He beat the Packers 2x in*GB in the playoffs, both times the Packers were a very very good team. He beat the 49ers in SF while getting smashed on every other play. He beat the Pats in NE on a last second TD to hault their 20 game home win streak. Not sure Peyton would do this stuff. </P>


Either way though both QBs are going to the HOF in my opinion, even with all the Eli hate. Peyton is the better career QB, but eli isnt too far behind especially when including the playoffs. *</P>


Peyton and Brady are trying to put a bow on their HOF careers, while Eli is just building his resume.</P>

One of the better summaries of the Eli conundrum.

I also think the Bayless assessment referred to earlier in this thread has some merit. Eli is the embodiment of that old phrase "still waters run deep". He gives absolutely nothing of his real thoughts and feelings to the press, and it drives them CRAZY. Likewise, Eli's second Super Bowl win and MVP has driven them to distraction, in my view--they can't continue to use their collective "Eli's too inconsistent" refrain in order to diminish his abilities and accomplishments.

As a result, most of the media "nay-sayers" have lost a lot of credibility when referring to Eli, and are struggling to recover.

giantsfan420
07-17-2012, 02:37 PM
so comically hypocritical and a double standard, MS arent you always the one whining about how "people have to knock down another qb to prop up eli."
well, for some reason, ur trying to knock down eli to prop up peyton when theres no basis for it.
Thats not what I did at all. TuckYou made a contrast between Eli and Peyton. Suggesting that Eli came through where Peyton didn't. I pointed out that he was wrong. Then you jumped it.
....And why do you always have to add a personal attack. Make your point and then shut the hell up.

dude im not attacking you. i said a point you made was hypocritical and a double standard, and it is. u do it all the time and should know the difference.

and how was bring up eli's two bad playoff losses, which had nothing to do with the actual topic of peyton struggling in the playoffs, as a means to try and elevate peyton above eli? thats clear cut definition of "knocking down another to prop up", just bc ur the one doing it doesnt make it different all of a sudden.

giantsfan420
07-17-2012, 02:39 PM
There was actually a thing where skip bayless of all people basically said "Eli doesn't fit the media image of a superstar QB, even though he plays like one. As such, it's hard to view Eli as a superstar".

Skip Bayless is unadulterated detritus. He once claimed that Eli Manning has no leadership qualities and is an idiot. That punk Skip Bayless called our QB an idiot and idiot savant among other things. Skip Bayless can go **** himself.

The comparasion between Eli and Peyton is going to last forever and Eli is not going to compare to him in overall stats except a very telling one, winning percenrage and level of competition in the post season. Peyton Manning has never had a post season to compare to the one Eli Manning just had.
Its a fair point to say that Eli had an historical playoff run. But that should not be a criticism of Peyton. The run was great, but the entire body of work is still not what some here have suggested. Peyton is just a more competent player. He is in pre season, regular season and in the playoffs. Don't forget that Peyton also has a SB MVP, and played damn well in other one. The Indy defense couldn't stop Drew Brees.
Lets just be careful to give credit to players for what they do on the field and resist criticizing players for what they can't control. Eli had nothing to do with the harrassment of Tom Brady by the Giants defense in 2 SB's. Peyton had nothing to do with a Indy secondary that couldn't cover me.

who the hell said it was a criticism of peyton? you took it to that level simply bc a poster pondered elis postseason success vs peytons playoff success.

and what? ur recollection of indy;s playoff losses is severely detached from reality.

buffyblue
07-17-2012, 03:11 PM
There was actually a thing where skip bayless of all people basically said "Eli doesn't fit the media image of a superstar QB, even though he plays like one. As such, it's hard to view Eli as a superstar".

Skip Bayless is unadulterated detritus. He once claimed that Eli Manning has no leadership qualities and is an idiot. That punk Skip Bayless called our QB an idiot and idiot savant among other things. Skip Bayless can go **** himself.

The comparasion between Eli and Peyton is going to last forever and Eli is not going to compare to him in overall stats except a very telling one, winning percenrage and level of competition in the post season. Peyton Manning has never had a post season to compare to the one Eli Manning just had.
Its a fair point to say that Eli had an historical playoff run. But that should not be a criticism of Peyton. The run was great, but the entire body of work is still not what some here have suggested. Peyton is just a more competent player. He is in pre season, regular season and in the playoffs. Don't forget that Peyton also has a SB MVP, and played damn well in other one. The Indy defense couldn't stop Drew Brees.
Lets just be careful to give credit to players for what they do on the field and resist criticizing players for what they can't control. Eli had nothing to do with the harrassment of Tom Brady by the Giants defense in 2 SB's. Peyton had nothing to do with a Indy secondary that couldn't cover me.

Eli Manning was sacked and harrassed more by the NE Patriots defense in the last SuperBowl than Tom Brady was by ours.
Eli Manning controlling the clock and keeping Tom Brady on the sidelines was the best defensive statemement of SuperBowl XLVI. Eli Manning had a great deal to do with our defense beong fresh because he made sure they had plenty of rest.

Peyton Manning when all is said and done may go down as one of the, if not the best ever. I think he has plenty of football left in him but to say that coming off the couch after neck surgery and missing he is a better QB than a guy that just threw for more yards in a postseason and dictated and controlled a SuperBowl against a plan devised by perhaps the greatest defensive mind in NFL is preposterous. Right now as it stands Eli Manning has to be consideted the better QB. Not overall career but ability to perform right now until Peyton Manning proves otherwise. Also, there is not a comparasion in their post season performances, Eli Manning is better by far. Folks keep bringing up the Philadelphia loss in playoffs whefe Eli Manning had trouble throwing in the wind but he quickly fixed that. Peyton Manning repeatedly threw some epic interceptions to lose playoff games and a SuperBowl.

stormblue
07-17-2012, 03:28 PM
i like the brother with the NY on his helmet because he puts team trophies in the display case in the meadowlands whereas the other brother just seems to accumulate personal artifacts with his name on them to display on the mantlepiece in some mansion owned by the Mannings.

ask Jim Mora or Tony Dungy.....it is - always was - and always will be ; about Peyton.

he is Marino with 1 lucky ring (that he did not earn.....he stunk it up pretty bad in that game ,fortunately for him the competition was Rex Grossman.)

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 03:28 PM
There was actually a thing where skip bayless of all people basically said "Eli doesn't fit the media image of a superstar QB, even though he plays like one. As such, it's hard to view Eli as a superstar".

Skip Bayless is unadulterated detritus. He once claimed that Eli Manning has no leadership qualities and is an idiot. That punk Skip Bayless called our QB an idiot and idiot savant among other things. Skip Bayless can go **** himself.

The comparasion between Eli and Peyton is going to last forever and Eli is not going to compare to him in overall stats except a very telling one, winning percenrage and level of competition in the post season. Peyton Manning has never had a post season to compare to the one Eli Manning just had.
Its a fair point to say that Eli had an historical playoff run. But that should not be a criticism of Peyton. The run was great, but the entire body of work is still not what some here have suggested. Peyton is just a more competent player. He is in pre season, regular season and in the playoffs. Don't forget that Peyton also has a SB MVP, and played damn well in other one. The Indy defense couldn't stop Drew Brees.
Lets just be careful to give credit to players for what they do on the field and resist criticizing players for what they can't control. Eli had nothing to do with the harrassment of Tom Brady by the Giants defense in 2 SB's. Peyton had nothing to do with a Indy secondary that couldn't cover me.

who the hell said it was a criticism of peyton? you took it to that level simply bc a poster pondered elis postseason success vs peytons playoff success.

and what? ur recollection of indy;s playoff losses is severely detached from reality.
Another poster said that Peyton never had a playoff run like Eli. My point is simple...Peyton is a great QB. The notion that he is strictly a great "regular season" QB is false. I watched one playoff game in KC where he scored every single time he had the ball. For the entire game. Peyton has only won one SB, but those Indy teams simply had no defense. Unlike what some might suggest, its a team game. When you have something close to a "one man team" I don't care how good that player is.....you lose. I'm not saying Peyton was a one man team, but he's close. We saw him miss last year and a team that was the winningest in the last decade went 2-14.

burier
07-17-2012, 03:38 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date.

Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great.

Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time.

In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had.

Fair enough. I apologize if I appeared to condescend.

And I really don't intend to argue about who you feel in your heart is better.

My point to you and everyone is that at some point the amazing things that Eli has already accomplished will be held in higher regard than things that Peyton accomplished.

I mentioned in another post that I'd definately take Dan Marino over Tom Brady. Hell I'd take John Elway over Tom Brady but Dan Marino just isn't going to get on a list ahead of Brady because of the championships and the feats. And Tom Brady has MVPs Super Bowl MVPS AND his main feat...which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning.

(Which adds weight to Eli's greatest feat which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning Vs an undefeated team)

So you might turn the tape on and decided that you believe Peyton is the better QB. But the historical feats will say something else. Now if Peyton turns around and wins a Superbowl this year. That's a major historical feat and it would change the conversation up.

That said....This next Suprebowl will be won by the New York Giants. Meaning 3 rings for Eli which would then put him in "best ever" conversation because of the back-to-back status.

Edit: If you don't think Eli is immortal due to the two superbowl wins then you don't think any quarterback is immortal.

The pass to Tyree will be the most replayed and most refrenced play in the history of the sport bar none. It lead to perhaps the most improbable win the history of sports.

Its Just a matter of time before people start calling the throw the Manningham what it is which is the greatest throw in the history of the forward pass.

Eli Manning is going to live on forever.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 03:45 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date.

Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great.

Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time.

In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had.

Fair enough. I apologize if I appeared to condescend.

And I really don't intend to argue about who you feel in your heart is better.

My to you and everyone is that at some point the amazing things that Eli has already accomplished will be held in higher regard than things that Peyton accomplished.

I mentioned in another post that I'd definately take Dan Marino over Tom Brady. Hell I'd take John Elway over Tom Brady but Dan Marino just isn't going to get on a list ahead of Brady because of the championships and the feats. And Tom Brady has MVPs Super Bowl MVPS AND his main feat...which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning.

(Which adds weight to Eli's greatest feat which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning Vs an undefeated team)

So you might turn the tape on and decided that you believe Peyton is the better QB. But the historical feats will say something else. Now if Peyton turns around and wins a Superbowl this year. That's a major historical feat and it would change the conversation up.

That said....This next Suprebowl will be won by the New York Giants. Meaning 3 rings for Eli which would then put him in "best ever" conversation because of the back-to-back status.

Edit: If you don't think Eli is immortal due to the two superbowl wins then you don't think any quarterback is immortal.

The pass to Tyree will be the most replayed and most refrenced play in the history of the sport bar none. It lead to perhaps the most improbable win the history of sports.

Its Just a matter of time before people start calling the throw the Manningham what it is which is the greatest throw in the history of the forward pass.

Eli Manning is going to live on forever.
I hate to beat a dead horse but TEAMS win SB's. The Giants won 2 SB's because of many factors. The QB played well in both playoff runs but so did the defense. Without both, they would not have won either SB. In the case of Peyton, they played great defense in the 06 run. The reason they haven't won more is that Indy doesn't play good defense and rarely did with Peyton as their QB. He just can't control that. No more than Eli can control JPP's talent.

burier
07-17-2012, 03:55 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date.

Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great.

Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time.

In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had.

Fair enough. I apologize if I appeared to condescend.

And I really don't intend to argue about who you feel in your heart is better.

My to you and everyone is that at some point the amazing things that Eli has already accomplished will be held in higher regard than things that Peyton accomplished.

I mentioned in another post that I'd definately take Dan Marino over Tom Brady. Hell I'd take John Elway over Tom Brady but Dan Marino just isn't going to get on a list ahead of Brady because of the championships and the feats. And Tom Brady has MVPs Super Bowl MVPS AND his main feat...which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning.

(Which adds weight to Eli's greatest feat which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning Vs an undefeated team)

So you might turn the tape on and decided that you believe Peyton is the better QB. But the historical feats will say something else. Now if Peyton turns around and wins a Superbowl this year. That's a major historical feat and it would change the conversation up.

That said....This next Suprebowl will be won by the New York Giants. Meaning 3 rings for Eli which would then put him in "best ever" conversation because of the back-to-back status.

Edit: If you don't think Eli is immortal due to the two superbowl wins then you don't think any quarterback is immortal.

The pass to Tyree will be the most replayed and most refrenced play in the history of the sport bar none. It lead to perhaps the most improbable win the history of sports.

Its Just a matter of time before people start calling the throw the Manningham what it is which is the greatest throw in the history of the forward pass.

Eli Manning is going to live on forever.
I hate to beat a dead horse but TEAMS win SB's. The Giants won 2 SB's because of many factors. The QB played well in both playoff runs but so did the defense. Without both, they would not have won either SB. In the case of Peyton, they played great defense in the 06 run. The reason they haven't won more is that Indy doesn't play good defense and rarely did with Peyton as their QB. He just can't control that. No more than Eli can control JPP's talent.

Like I told the other poster I don't make the rules.

Quarterbacks are judged on rings.

No one discredits Montana because of Jerry Rice and Roger Craig and Ronnie Lott and the west Coast offense right.

He simply has 4 rings so he's in the best ever convo.

Dan Marino is concidered great but not best ever. Not even in the convo.

Elway has 2 rings but his rings are low quality. He rode a running game a stiff D to the Superbowl. Im talking perception here. I don't mean to argue the point.

Peyton has 1 ring and its of low quality because the opposing Quarterback was so weak.

This has nothing to do with the technical aspects of the game. Football is enterainment and these things will be considered in rhetrospect.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 03:55 PM
Who in God's name are you guys going to argue with with the boards down for 5 days????

TuckYou
07-17-2012, 04:01 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date.

Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great.

Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time.

In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had.

Fair enough. I apologize if I appeared to condescend.

And I really don't intend to argue about who you feel in your heart is better.

My to you and everyone is that at some point the amazing things that Eli has already accomplished will be held in higher regard than things that Peyton accomplished.

I mentioned in another post that I'd definately take Dan Marino over Tom Brady. Hell I'd take John Elway over Tom Brady but Dan Marino just isn't going to get on a list ahead of Brady because of the championships and the feats. And Tom Brady has MVPs Super Bowl MVPS AND his main feat...which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning.

(Which adds weight to Eli's greatest feat which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning Vs an undefeated team)

So you might turn the tape on and decided that you believe Peyton is the better QB. But the historical feats will say something else. Now if Peyton turns around and wins a Superbowl this year. That's a major historical feat and it would change the conversation up.

That said....This next Suprebowl will be won by the New York Giants. Meaning 3 rings for Eli which would then put him in "best ever" conversation because of the back-to-back status.

Edit: If you don't think Eli is immortal due to the two superbowl wins then you don't think any quarterback is immortal.

The pass to Tyree will be the most replayed and most refrenced play in the history of the sport bar none. It lead to perhaps the most improbable win the history of sports.

Its Just a matter of time before people start calling the throw the Manningham what it is which is the greatest throw in the history of the forward pass.

Eli Manning is going to live on forever.
I hate to beat a dead horse but TEAMS win SB's. The Giants won 2 SB's because of many factors. The QB played well in both playoff runs but so did the defense. Without both, they would not have won either SB. In the case of Peyton, they played great defense in the 06 run. The reason they haven't won more is that Indy doesn't play good defense and rarely did with Peyton as their QB. He just can't control that. No more than Eli can control JPP's talent.

The Giants Defense was horrible this year giving up 400 points. And they were ranked dead last in the run support.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 04:09 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date.

Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great.

Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time.

In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had.

Fair enough. I apologize if I appeared to condescend.

And I really don't intend to argue about who you feel in your heart is better.

My to you and everyone is that at some point the amazing things that Eli has already accomplished will be held in higher regard than things that Peyton accomplished.

I mentioned in another post that I'd definately take Dan Marino over Tom Brady. Hell I'd take John Elway over Tom Brady but Dan Marino just isn't going to get on a list ahead of Brady because of the championships and the feats. And Tom Brady has MVPs Super Bowl MVPS AND his main feat...which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning.

(Which adds weight to Eli's greatest feat which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning Vs an undefeated team)

So you might turn the tape on and decided that you believe Peyton is the better QB. But the historical feats will say something else. Now if Peyton turns around and wins a Superbowl this year. That's a major historical feat and it would change the conversation up.

That said....This next Suprebowl will be won by the New York Giants. Meaning 3 rings for Eli which would then put him in "best ever" conversation because of the back-to-back status.

Edit: If you don't think Eli is immortal due to the two superbowl wins then you don't think any quarterback is immortal.

The pass to Tyree will be the most replayed and most refrenced play in the history of the sport bar none. It lead to perhaps the most improbable win the history of sports.

Its Just a matter of time before people start calling the throw the Manningham what it is which is the greatest throw in the history of the forward pass.

Eli Manning is going to live on forever.
I hate to beat a dead horse but TEAMS win SB's. The Giants won 2 SB's because of many factors. The QB played well in both playoff runs but so did the defense. Without both, they would not have won either SB. In the case of Peyton, they played great defense in the 06 run. The reason they haven't won more is that Indy doesn't play good defense and rarely did with Peyton as their QB. He just can't control that. No more than Eli can control JPP's talent.

The Giants Defense was horrible this year giving up 400 points. And they were ranked dead last in the run support.
I was talking about the playoff run. Shutout against Atlanta. Essentially held GB to 6 points. 20 to SF. and 17 to NE

TheEnigma
07-17-2012, 04:09 PM
Eli is the Alpha Dog heading into the 2012 season but be honest with yourselves for a second on this one: Which franchise has a better front office?

This is the same Colts franchise that Elway ran away from and the same Colts franchise that traded Marshall Faulk away for some scrubs because they weren't willing to pay him what he was worth.

Who knows how much different history would of been had the Colts held onto Faulk and given Peyton more time with him.

Point being, I don't think we have to worry about Reese or the rest of our front office letting go of such significant players that can make or break our team.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 04:14 PM
Eli is the Alpha Dog heading into the 2012 season but be honest with yourselves for a second on this one: Which franchise has a better front office?

This is the same Colts franchise that Elway ran away from and the same Colts franchise that traded Marshall Faulk away for some scrubs because they weren't willing to pay him what he was worth.

Who knows how much different history would of been had the Colts held onto Faulk and given Peyton more time with him.

Point being, I don't think we have to worry about Reese or the rest of our front office letting go of such significant players that can make or break our team.
I think the players have changed a tad since 1983. Colts are a great organization. They play in a small market, can't afford to pay huge free agent money and won for a lot of years. Now they have Luck. Could be another great run.

Drez
07-17-2012, 04:27 PM
They play in a small market, can't afford to pay huge free agent money and won for a lot of years.

Ummm... All teams have the same amount of money to spend on players. The NFL's revenue sharing guarantees that.

Whether or not ownership wants to spend that money is a different story, but they most certainly have the money to spend as much as any other team does.

TuckYou
07-17-2012, 04:29 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date.

Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great.

Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time.

In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had.

Fair enough. I apologize if I appeared to condescend.

And I really don't intend to argue about who you feel in your heart is better.

My to you and everyone is that at some point the amazing things that Eli has already accomplished will be held in higher regard than things that Peyton accomplished.

I mentioned in another post that I'd definately take Dan Marino over Tom Brady. Hell I'd take John Elway over Tom Brady but Dan Marino just isn't going to get on a list ahead of Brady because of the championships and the feats. And Tom Brady has MVPs Super Bowl MVPS AND his main feat...which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning.

(Which adds weight to Eli's greatest feat which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning Vs an undefeated team)

So you might turn the tape on and decided that you believe Peyton is the better QB. But the historical feats will say something else. Now if Peyton turns around and wins a Superbowl this year. That's a major historical feat and it would change the conversation up.

That said....This next Suprebowl will be won by the New York Giants. Meaning 3 rings for Eli which would then put him in "best ever" conversation because of the back-to-back status.

Edit: If you don't think Eli is immortal due to the two superbowl wins then you don't think any quarterback is immortal.

The pass to Tyree will be the most replayed and most refrenced play in the history of the sport bar none. It lead to perhaps the most improbable win the history of sports.

Its Just a matter of time before people start calling the throw the Manningham what it is which is the greatest throw in the history of the forward pass.

Eli Manning is going to live on forever.
I hate to beat a dead horse but TEAMS win SB's. The Giants won 2 SB's because of many factors. The QB played well in both playoff runs but so did the defense. Without both, they would not have won either SB. In the case of Peyton, they played great defense in the 06 run. The reason they haven't won more is that Indy doesn't play good defense and rarely did with Peyton as their QB. He just can't control that. No more than Eli can control JPP's talent.

The Giants Defense was horrible this year giving up 400 points. And they were ranked dead last in the run support.
I was talking about the playoff run. Shutout against Atlanta. Essentially held GB to 6 points. 20 to SF. and 17 to NE

Yeah, the D was awesome, but so was Eli. Eli had 2 long drives in the SB to keep the pats offense off the field. Also, to score more then 20 on the 49ers d in SF is quite a feat.

GMENAGAIN
07-17-2012, 04:39 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB. up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB. right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton. it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play. Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet. Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see. But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother. 4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal. Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS. Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %. Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton. So again, feats. Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls. Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent. Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl. As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning. Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli. Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time." Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense. Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.) Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli And Peyton threw a Superbowl away. Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades. But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else. All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds. My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date. Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great. Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time. In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had. Fair enough. I apologize if I appeared to condescend. And I really don't intend to argue about who you feel in your heart is better. My to you and everyone is that at some point the amazing things that Eli has already accomplished will be held in higher regard than things that Peyton accomplished. I mentioned in another post that I'd definately take Dan Marino over Tom Brady. Hell I'd take John Elway over Tom Brady but Dan Marino just isn't going to get on a list ahead of Brady because of the championships and the feats. And Tom Brady has MVPs Super Bowl MVPS AND his main feat...which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning. (Which adds weight to Eli's greatest feat which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning Vs an undefeated team) So you might turn the tape on and decided that you believe Peyton is the better QB. But the historical feats will say something else. Now if Peyton turns around and wins a Superbowl this year. That's a major historical feat and it would change the conversation up. That said....This next Suprebowl will be won by the New York Giants. Meaning 3 rings for Eli which would then put him in "best ever" conversation because of the back-to-back status. Edit: If you don't think Eli is immortal due to the two superbowl wins then you don't think any quarterback is immortal. The pass to Tyree will be the most replayed and most refrenced play in the history of the sport bar none. It lead to perhaps the most improbable win the history of sports. Its Just a matter of time before people start calling the throw the Manningham what it is which is the greatest throw in the history of the forward pass. Eli Manning is going to live on forever. I hate to beat a dead horse but TEAMS win SB's. The Giants won 2 SB's because of many factors. The QB played well in both playoff runs but so did the defense. Without both, they would not have won either SB. In the case of Peyton, they played great defense in the 06 run. The reason they haven't won more is that Indy doesn't play good defense and rarely did with Peyton as their QB. He just can't control that. No more than Eli can control JPP's talent. Like I told the other poster I don't make the rules. Quarterbacks are judged on rings. No one discredits Montana because of Jerry Rice and Roger Craig and Ronnie Lott and the west Coast offense right. He simply has 4 rings so he's in the best ever convo. Dan Marino is concidered great but not best ever. Not even in the convo. Elway has 2 rings but his rings are low quality. He rode a running game a stiff D to the Superbowl. Im talking perception here. I don't mean to argue the point. Peyton has 1 ring and its of low quality because the opposing Quarterback was so weak. This has nothing to do with the technical aspects of the game. Football is enterainment and these things will be considered in rhetrospect.</P>


The number of ringsis obviously an important factor in judging a QB's career, but it's not the only factor. For the same reason that no one would argue that Brad Johnson or Tent Dilfer were better QB's than Marino, you can't argue that Eli is a better QB than Peyton just because he has two rings to Peyton's one . . . . . </P>

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 04:52 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

My opinions on this matter isn't shaped by what I have been "force fed". It's based on both QB's stats and performance up to date.

Eli is a very good QB. And with him entering his prime years for the next 6-7 seasons, he has a chance to be great. And IMO he is not an "immortal" QB because of those 2 SB's, and SB game winning drives. What he is is clutch. And if he continues to put up numbers like he did last season for the next 6-7 years he will be great.

Peyton has nothing to prove at all. He is already great and if he did nothing else he would heading to the Hall of Fame and will be ranked as one of the top 10 QB's of all time.

In terms of who is better right now, it's easy to say Eli because of his 2nd SB win and the season he had. That's not enough for me. Peyton is still the better overall QB, but Eli is more clutch and is closing the gap by getting rid of some bad habits he has had.

Fair enough. I apologize if I appeared to condescend.

And I really don't intend to argue about who you feel in your heart is better.

My to you and everyone is that at some point the amazing things that Eli has already accomplished will be held in higher regard than things that Peyton accomplished.

I mentioned in another post that I'd definately take Dan Marino over Tom Brady. Hell I'd take John Elway over Tom Brady but Dan Marino just isn't going to get on a list ahead of Brady because of the championships and the feats. And Tom Brady has MVPs Super Bowl MVPS AND his main feat...which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning.

(Which adds weight to Eli's greatest feat which is winning a Superbowl he had no business winning Vs an undefeated team)

So you might turn the tape on and decided that you believe Peyton is the better QB. But the historical feats will say something else. Now if Peyton turns around and wins a Superbowl this year. That's a major historical feat and it would change the conversation up.

That said....This next Suprebowl will be won by the New York Giants. Meaning 3 rings for Eli which would then put him in "best ever" conversation because of the back-to-back status.

Edit: If you don't think Eli is immortal due to the two superbowl wins then you don't think any quarterback is immortal.

The pass to Tyree will be the most replayed and most refrenced play in the history of the sport bar none. It lead to perhaps the most improbable win the history of sports.

Its Just a matter of time before people start calling the throw the Manningham what it is which is the greatest throw in the history of the forward pass.

Eli Manning is going to live on forever.
I hate to beat a dead horse but TEAMS win SB's. The Giants won 2 SB's because of many factors. The QB played well in both playoff runs but so did the defense. Without both, they would not have won either SB. In the case of Peyton, they played great defense in the 06 run. The reason they haven't won more is that Indy doesn't play good defense and rarely did with Peyton as their QB. He just can't control that. No more than Eli can control JPP's talent.

The Giants Defense was horrible this year giving up 400 points. And they were ranked dead last in the run support.
I was talking about the playoff run. Shutout against Atlanta. Essentially held GB to 6 points. 20 to SF. and 17 to NE

Yeah, the D was awesome, but so was Eli. Eli had 2 long drives in the SB to keep the pats offense off the field. Also, to score more then 20 on the 49ers d in SF is quite a feat.
Which of course was my exact point. I win again!

buffyblue
07-17-2012, 04:53 PM
There was actually a thing where skip bayless of all people basically said "Eli doesn't fit the media image of a superstar QB, even though he plays like one. As such, it's hard to view Eli as a superstar".

Skip Bayless is unadulterated detritus. He once claimed that Eli Manning has no leadership qualities and is an idiot. That punk Skip Bayless called our QB an idiot and idiot savant among other things. Skip Bayless can go **** himself.

The comparasion between Eli and Peyton is going to last forever and Eli is not going to compare to him in overall stats except a very telling one, winning percenrage and level of competition in the post season. Peyton Manning has never had a post season to compare to the one Eli Manning just had.
Its a fair point to say that Eli had an historical playoff run. But that should not be a criticism of Peyton. The run was great, but the entire body of work is still not what some here have suggested. Peyton is just a more competent player. He is in pre season, regular season and in the playoffs. Don't forget that Peyton also has a SB MVP, and played damn well in other one. The Indy defense couldn't stop Drew Brees.
Lets just be careful to give credit to players for what they do on the field and resist criticizing players for what they can't control. Eli had nothing to do with the harrassment of Tom Brady by the Giants defense in 2 SB's. Peyton had nothing to do with a Indy secondary that couldn't cover me.

who the hell said it was a criticism of peyton? you took it to that level simply bc a poster pondered elis postseason success vs peytons playoff success.

and what? ur recollection of indy;s playoff losses is severely detached from reality.
Another poster said that Peyton never had a playoff run like Eli. My point is simple...Peyton is a great QB. The notion that he is strictly a great "regular season" QB is false. I watched one playoff game in KC where he scored every single time he had the ball. For the entire game. Peyton has only won one SB, but those Indy teams simply had no defense. Unlike what some might suggest, its a team game. When you have something close to a "one man team" I don't care how good that player is.....you lose. I'm not saying Peyton was a one man team, but he's close. We saw him miss last year and a team that was the winningest in the last decade went 2-14.

If Eli Manning did not play last season our record may have been 2-14 too.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 04:53 PM
They play in a small market, can't afford to pay huge free agent money and won for a lot of years.

Ummm... All teams have the same amount of money to spend on players. The NFL's revenue sharing guarantees that.

Whether or not ownership wants to spend that money is a different story, but they most certainly have the money to spend as much as any other team does.

Thats just not the case. There are a ton of revenues that aren't shared. Only the TV revenue is shared. Everyone has the same cap, thats all.

Drez
07-17-2012, 04:58 PM
They play in a small market, can't afford to pay huge free agent money and won for a lot of years.

Ummm... All teams have the same amount of money to spend on players. The NFL's revenue sharing guarantees that.

Whether or not ownership wants to spend that money is a different story, but they most certainly have the money to spend as much as any other team does.

Thats just not the case. There are a ton of revenues that aren't shared. Only the TV revenue is shared. Everyone has the same cap, thats all.
And they all have enough money to reach the cap.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 05:00 PM
They play in a small market, can't afford to pay huge free agent money and won for a lot of years.

Ummm... All teams have the same amount of money to spend on players. The NFL's revenue sharing guarantees that.

Whether or not ownership wants to spend that money is a different story, but they most certainly have the money to spend as much as any other team does.

Thats just not the case. There are a ton of revenues that aren't shared. Only the TV revenue is shared. Everyone has the same cap, thats all.
And they all have enough money to reach the cap.

How do you know?

Drez
07-17-2012, 05:04 PM
They play in a small market, can't afford to pay huge free agent money and won for a lot of years.

Ummm... All teams have the same amount of money to spend on players. The NFL's revenue sharing guarantees that.

Whether or not ownership wants to spend that money is a different story, but they most certainly have the money to spend as much as any other team does.

Thats just not the case. There are a ton of revenues that aren't shared. Only the TV revenue is shared. Everyone has the same cap, thats all.
And they all have enough money to reach the cap.

How do you know?
Because the cap number is derived from the shared revenue. Not all teams make the same profit, or even bring in the same revenue. However, due to revenue sharing all teams have enough money to spend the entire cap as the cap is a derivative of shared revenues.

ShakeNBake
07-17-2012, 06:09 PM
I love Eli, but he will never achieve the alpha dog status over his brother Peyton. Even if Eli wins a couple more rings, when healthy Peyton is the better overall QB.

up to last season I'd agree 100%. the only thing is, peyton had maxed out his upside, amazing as it is, he isnt gonna get any better. whereas eli, who lets be honest, wasnt even peytons league for eli's first few seasons, has continually improved. I can say with certainty that eli is now on peytons level. only thing, eli isn't done improving as a QB.

right now, yes peyton was and is the better qb. however, its gotten much closer the past few seasons, and if eli can continue to progress as a qb, he could ultimately play at an even higher/more successful level then peyton.
it all depends tho on the individual and the emphasis he puts on stats. no qb will ever be as good as peyton statistically. but, outside of stats, things like winning on the biggest stages, playing his best against the best competition, clutchness, etc etc, eli outshines peyton imho

If Peyton is 100% this year, I think he will go back to his old self. He might have another 2-3 more seasons of elite level QB play.

Eli is closing the gap though. But I just don't think he has completely closed that gap just yet.

Its not your fault because you've been force fed certain things for years but Peyton Manning had to leave the United States get his neck fused together. Assuming he'll be Peyton of old seems misguided and in all honesty I don't think the Colts let Peyton go if they thought he'd be anything close to Peyton of old. We'll see.

But if Peyton does return to form he's still less accomplished than little brother.

4 league MVPs vs 1 SB ring is actually an indictment. Seems like a regular season wonder who always had top end running backs and receivers at his disposal.

Also he's got a pick in the Big game that rivals Neil Odonell's

So if we fast forward say 15 years and we're talking about the Manning Brothers we're going to be talking about FEATS.

Eli Manning will retire with a very impressive HOF calibure playoff win percentage %.

Eli would have to make the playoffs and be 1 and Done several times to drop his precentage to .500 and if he makes the playoffs often enough to drop his playoff percentage to .500 it would mean his regular season win percentage would be off the charts. Certainly on par with brother Peyton.

So again, feats.

Eli Manning is already immortal due to two plays in two different Superbowls.

Eli Manning is already immortal for winning those games based on quality of opponent.

Eli Manning has plays and DRIVES that are dripping with lore at all three levels. Regular season playoffs and Superbowl.

As insane as this might sound. Despite people's reluctance to change they're minds or admit that they were wrong at some point its going to be clear that Peyton Manning despite how great he is....is the second best Manning.

Peyton just doesn't have as much of the stuff that fans and sports media can sink their teeth into for generations as little brother Eli.

Peyton beats Rex Grossman in the Superbowl and the fealing is kinda like "Its about time."

Peyton for however cerebral he known for being took years to figure out the 3-4 defense.

Took Years to beat Tom Brady. (Brady has never beaten Eli in a game of even remote significance.)

Peyton has played indoors in a traditonally and signifcantly weaker division than Eli

And Peyton threw a Superbowl away.

Can't argue Eli's side if we're comparing regular season stats/accolades.

But you really can't argue Peyton's side when it comes to anything else.

All that said. I don't think anyone is truly saying that Eli is better or has less to prove than Peyton yet. Jaws ranked Peyton ahead of Eli off the couch. Sometimes it takes time to change minds.

Are you a surgeon? Are you an expert in neck rehabilitation after surgery ? No? Then you know as much about what you're talking about as the previous poster who you made that condescending remark to. Fact of the matter is no matter how hard you try you can not determine who the better quarterback is because they are both still active, so it is just a matter of opinion.

Anyway, the points that you are trying to make to backup your claim that Eli is better are ridiculous, such as claiming that Eli is better than Peyton because Eli beat Brady earlier in his career than Peyton did. Newsflash, there are more variables involved that influence a football game outside of the two starting qbs, so again that argument is ludicrous. The only way to objectively compare the two would be to look at their stats, which at this point in time Peyton has the edge. Again, this is just a matter of opinion which I just wanted to point out considering how you're carrying yourself like an asshat.


Fine I'll be the asshat.

Good job by you for cherry picking my points only to offer no real counter.

I don't believe I need to be a surgeon to say "maybe we should hold off on assuming the guy won't skip a beat." Not that Peyton's health was the main idea of my post anyway. To the contrary I go on to assume that Peyton is back to form.

I find it funny how you say there are too many variables to consider in my Brady comparison and then go on to say we should compare stats. News Flash: Variables impact stats just as much a variables impact outcomes of games. If we say every argument is invalid due to variables there would be nothing about football left to debate.

Speaking of variables and how they impact stats and wins. I actually addressed a few. Like QUALITY OF OPPONENT, WEATHER and QUALITY OF SURROUNDING TEAM MEMBERS.

But since you seemed to miss it, I'll repeat. (Whats the point in quoting someone's post if you're going to ignore 98 percent of it?)

From where I stand, over the past 10 years the NFC East has been stronger than the AFC South. Point Eli.

From where I stand over the past 10 years its been more difficult to Quarterback outdoors in New Jersey than it is to Quarterback indoors in Indiana. Point Eli.

From where I stand Eli has played on offense with 0 potential Hall Of Famers compared to Peyton who has played with at least 2 locks for the Hall Of Fame. Point Eli.


Moving on.

I didn't make the rules so you should simmer down. You may not like it but Quarterbacks are compared based on Feats or wins.

I can scream all I want that Dan Marino was better than Tom Brady ever thought about being and no one is going to listen because of FEATS! Championships! LORE! It favors Brady so Brady wins.

Right now the "I refuse to admit I don't know what I'm talking about syndrome" Is holding people back from giving Eli his due.

BUT one day there will be new analysts. Analysts who haven't spent 8 years trashing Eli who can call it objectively. And when it's called objectively Eli's combination of feats and championships already puts him in rarefied air.

I stop reading halfway through your posts because you flip flop more
than Mitt Romney. For example, I didn't have to read more than three
sentences into your last post to see that you're already contradicting
yourself yet again. First you say it would be misguided to think that
Peyton will come back to form this year then you go on to say that you
argued otherwise. So which is it genius?

I know you aren;t the brightest bulb in the box, but my counter was that trying to say that Eli is better than Peyton or vise-versa is a matter of opinion, not something that can be proven otherwise like you are trying to do here(Clear enough for you brainiac?).

Thanks for solidifying my point about variables and how numerous variables affect the outcomes of the games, not just the two quarterbacks involved as you were trying to say, as if Brady and Eli are playing a heads up game of 1v1 tennis. My point about stats is you can get a better overall perspective of how a player has performed over a period of time, instead of just comparing win-loss records in determining the superior quarterback as you attempted to do.


Its funny that you continually try to "school" people on these boards
when you have not the slightest idea what the hell you're talking about,
you are just the resident ******* of these boards.

Morehead State
07-17-2012, 08:16 PM
They play in a small market, can't afford to pay huge free agent money and won for a lot of years.

Ummm... All teams have the same amount of money to spend on players. The NFL's revenue sharing guarantees that.

Whether or not ownership wants to spend that money is a different story, but they most certainly have the money to spend as much as any other team does.

Thats just not the case. There are a ton of revenues that aren't shared. Only the TV revenue is shared. Everyone has the same cap, thats all.
And they all have enough money to reach the cap.

How do you know?
Because the cap number is derived from the shared revenue. Not all teams make the same profit, or even bring in the same revenue. However, due to revenue sharing all teams have enough money to spend the entire cap as the cap is a derivative of shared revenues.

No its not. The cap numbers comes from total NFL revenues.

Drez
07-17-2012, 09:06 PM
They play in a small market, can't afford to pay huge free agent money and won for a lot of years.

Ummm... All teams have the same amount of money to spend on players. The NFL's revenue sharing guarantees that.

Whether or not ownership wants to spend that money is a different story, but they most certainly have the money to spend as much as any other team does.

Thats just not the case. There are a ton of revenues that aren't shared. Only the TV revenue is shared. Everyone has the same cap, thats all.
And they all have enough money to reach the cap.

How do you know?
Because the cap number is derived from the shared revenue. Not all teams make the same profit, or even bring in the same revenue. However, due to revenue sharing all teams have enough money to spend the entire cap as the cap is a derivative of shared revenues.

No its not. The cap numbers comes from total NFL revenues.

Let's say you're right and only the tv money is shared (more is), tv revenue in 2011 was around $4b. 4b/32=$125m The salary cap in 2011 was $120m.

The means that there was $5m each team got from revenue sharing that was above the cap.

GameTime
07-23-2012, 07:14 PM
Peyton is one of the best QBs to ever play the game. Prob top 3 or def top 5. Eli is not in that conversation yet...

Nuff said....