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View Full Version : Eric Reid vs Tyrann Mathieu



juice33s
07-27-2012, 10:56 AM
Who you guys taking and would you spend a first rounder on the Honey badger?

Personally I think Mathieu projects as a Safety at the next level, too short and doesn't have the pure cover skills to play corner. But I do love his play making ability and I think he could thrive as a FS or in a Hybrid role similar to Charles Woodson.

Reid to me is a fantastic in the box safety but isn't dynamic enough in coverage to over take Mathieu....Plus with Mathieu you get a fantastic special teams player.

I'd take Mathieu mid first as I think he has Troy Polamalu type potential

titwio
07-27-2012, 01:05 PM
Personally I think Mathieu projects as a Safety at the next level

I say this too...the guy is a play-maker and he's more valuable imo roaming and used on safety blitz's. The only thing I can see hurting him is covering TE's because of his size, but the guy is feisty and should compete enough.

Imgrate
07-27-2012, 02:14 PM
I do not like small players at all

penguinfarmer
07-27-2012, 02:30 PM
I personally think Matthieu's perfect as a cover 2 system corner or nickel cb. I think he's worth a first, some team will look at the likes of Brandon Flowers and take him, I doubt it will be the Giants though as they do value size.

However, I want TJ McDonald. Pair him next to Philips. KP/TJ will be my 2013 chant.

Side note, I'd stab someone in the neck for David Amerson. He can be one of the better corner prospects in some time.

ELIte4MVP
07-27-2012, 02:33 PM
I personally think Matthieu's perfect as a cover 2 system corner or nickel cb. I think he's worth a first, some team will look at the likes of Brandon Flowers and take him, I doubt it will be the Giants though as they do value size.

However, I want TJ McDonald. Pair him next to Philips. KP/TJ will be my 2013 chant.

Side note, I'd stab someone in the neck for David Amerson. He can be one of the better corner prospects in some time.

i would say they VALUE size, but don't solely pick based on size (see Jayron Hosley: 5'9")

penguinfarmer
07-27-2012, 02:41 PM
Jayron was in the end of the third round. He's not projecting as one of the outside corners.

juice33s
07-27-2012, 02:44 PM
I personally think Matthieu's perfect as a cover 2 system corner or nickel cb. I think he's worth a first, some team will look at the likes of Brandon Flowers and take him, I doubt it will be the Giants though as they do value size.

However, I want TJ McDonald. Pair him next to Philips. KP/TJ will be my 2013 chant.

Side note, I'd stab someone in the neck for David Amerson. He can be one of the better corner prospects in some time. KP will be a FA at the end of the year so depending on what kind of contract he's looking for we could be looking to replace him with a Reid, McDonald or Matheiu

penguinfarmer
07-27-2012, 03:04 PM
That I do worry about. I'd rather cut Rolle in favor of KP, but that only saves around 2.25 mil with 4.75mil in dead money due to the restructures. Here's to hoping for lucrative television deals and increased revenue.

BlueSanta
07-27-2012, 05:07 PM
I do not think Matieu projects to safety at all and if he does project there, then he is certainly not a1st round pick at that position.

He is likely a 1st round talent at Cb and on of the best defensive players in college football at cornerback, but not at safety where he would be 1 of the smallest , if not the smallest, safety in the league and would come into the league with no experience at the position.

titwio
07-27-2012, 05:13 PM
I do not think Matieu projects to safety at all and if he does project there, then he is certainly not a1st round pick at that position.

He is likely a 1st round talent at Cb and on of the best defensive players in college football at cornerback, but not at safety where he would be 1 of the smallest , if not the smallest, safety in the league and would come into the league with no experience at the position.

He'll at least be taller than Bob Sanders. But the way he plays I can see him making the transition to safety...It's not that hard for CB's who study the same film as all DB's to convert as people think.

But I agree he'll likely be drafted as a corner but I can see him being more successful down the line at safety.

BlueSanta
07-27-2012, 06:11 PM
He'll at least be taller than Bob Sanders. But the way he plays I can see him making the transition to safety...It's not that hard for CB's who study the same film as all DB's to convert as people think.

But I agree he'll likely be drafted as a corner but I can see him being more successful down the line at safety.

He is a half inch taller than Sanders and 30 lbs lighter. He could add weight but that doesnt mean he will suddenly become Bob Sanders either.

Furthermore,about Bob Sanders, he is a guy who: has Averaged less than 7 games per season over his 8 year career, a guy who has finished as many season on the IR as he has off the IR, has never once played a full season, has only had 2 good years in the NFL out of 8 which happened to be the only 2 years he played more than 6 games. and lastly, a guy who was picked in the 2nd round. Do you think mentioning his name helps or hurts your your argument that Mathieu will be considered a 1st round talent at safety? Personally, I kinda feel like you just proved my point for me and I think most NFL teams would admit that Bob Sanders was too small to be a safety in the NFL and his durability suffered for it.

I just do not see him being selected by a team to play safety prior to him being selected by a team to play corner. He is a FAR better prospect at corner. Teams need 3 good corners now since for most teams the nickle defense is on the field more than 60% of the time. The only way I see him being considered a safety 1st is if he runs a horrible 40 at the combine. Even then, he still wouldn't be considered a 1st round safety talent.

titwio
07-27-2012, 06:27 PM
He is a half inch taller than Sanders and 30 lbs lighter. He could add weight but that doesnt mean he will suddenly become Bob Sanders either.

Furthermore,about Bob Sanders, he is a guy who: has Averaged less than 7 games per season over his 8 year career, a guy who has finished as many season on the IR as he has off the IR, has never once played a full season, has only had 2 good years in the NFL out of 8 which happened to be the only 2 years he played more than 6 games. and lastly, a guy who was picked in the 2nd round. Do you think mentioning his name helps or hurts your your argument that Mathieu will be considered a 1st round talent at safety? Personally, I kinda feel like you just proved my point for me and I think most NFL teams would admit that Bob Sanders was too small to be a safety in the NFL and his durability suffered for it.

I just do not see him being selected by a team to play safety prior to him being selected by a team to play corner. He is a FAR better prospect at corner. Teams need 3 good corners now since for most teams the nickle defense is on the field more than 60% of the time. The only way I see him being considered a safety 1st is if he runs a horrible 40 at the combine. Even then, he still wouldn't be considered a 1st round safety talent.

One problem was I wasn't arguing or making a case to prove you wrong. I was giving my opinion based on his skill-set that I see him being more successful down the line at safety. The "he'll at least be taller than Bob Sanders" meant nothing but a reminder that Sanders was a small safety too.

I for one wasn't too impressed by him at corner. All his splash plays were made more on ST's, returns, block punts, and blitz's....at least based on the games I saw. He's good at corner..not elite and with his size I don't see him as first round material at CB. Not yet anyway. He could improve this season though and change my mind.

His overall skill set though is what projects him as a first rounder imo.

juice33s
07-27-2012, 06:53 PM
I do not think Matieu projects to safety at all and if he does project there, then he is certainly not a1st round pick at that position.

He is likely a 1st round talent at Cb and on of the best defensive players in college football at cornerback, but not at safety where he would be 1 of the smallest , if not the smallest, safety in the league and would come into the league with no experience at the position.
Its not his lockdown cover skills that makes him one of the best defensive players in the nation though. It's his instincts as a football player and ability to make game changing plays. This is not a guy you want to just leave out on an island to shut down the other team's best WR, because thats not his strength. This is a guy you want to move all over the field and basically just get him around the line of scrimmage and the football as much as possible (Similar to Charles Woodson). LSU does this to some effect by lining him up on the outside, in the slot, at LB and at safety (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhL_E5BThe0)

juice33s
07-27-2012, 07:11 PM
A Breakdown of where LSU uses Mathieu (http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/40968/321/a-violent-collision-seeker)
1. Mathieu is used at virtually every position in the back seven.

I charted each of Mathieu's snaps from the five games. He played slot corner on 36 percent of the downs, outside corner on 32.5 percent, and safety on 10 percent. Mathieu lined up at linebacker -- usually to rush the quarterback -- on 21 percent of his plays. A "joker" in LSU's defense, Mathieu's assignment differs from one snap to the next. The LSU staff seems to believe he is an equally effective cover man, run-support defender, and pass rusher. And Mathieu wreaks havoc wherever he lines up, making plays sideline to sideline and causing ball carriers constant disruption.

BlueSanta
07-27-2012, 11:49 PM
A Breakdown of where LSU uses Mathieu (http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/40968/321/a-violent-collision-seeker)
1. Mathieu is used at virtually every position in the back seven.

I charted each of Mathieu's snaps from the five games. He played slot corner on 36 percent of the downs, outside corner on 32.5 percent, and safety on 10 percent. Mathieu lined up at linebacker -- usually to rush the quarterback -- on 21 percent of his plays. A "joker" in LSU's defense, Mathieu's assignment differs from one snap to the next. The LSU staff seems to believe he is an equally effective cover man, run-support defender, and pass rusher. And Mathieu wreaks havoc wherever he lines up, making plays sideline to sideline and causing ball carriers constant disruption.

I am not doubting him as a player. He is a sick player. He is as instinctive a player as has come out in a few years. But, in the NFL he will play 1 position. Like Troy P, who he was compared to above, Tyrann plays a bunch of positions in college, he finds his way into almost every play,and is an insane ball hawk.

But, Troy was 206 LBs coming out of college(that's 30 more than Tyrann) and, despite being used all over the defense in college, he was drafted to play safety in the NFL. Tyrann could add weight but there is no guarantee he can do it and remain fast and he flat out cannot play NFL safety at 176 lbs. Troy ran a 4.33 coming out of college at 206lbs. So while he wasn't ideal size at only 5'10", he had a stout build and fantastic speed. Its unknown if Tyrann can add 30ish lbs and still keep his speed.

This year will be his determining year because LSU will likely keep him at the CB position moreso than last year since he is their best CB. He will be lined up against other team's #1 WRs, something he hasn't done in the past. People forget he was just a sophomore last year, that can explain a lot of the coverage mistakes he made. I suspect this year his stats may drop off a little, because he will be lined up on an island more, but I expect his NFL value will go up as teams get to see this kid do what NFL teams want him to do, and that is play corner.

juice33s
07-28-2012, 08:44 PM
I am not doubting him as a player. He is a sick player. He is as instinctive a player as has come out in a few years. But, in the NFL he will play 1 position. Like Troy P, who he was compared to above, Tyrann plays a bunch of positions in college, he finds his way into almost every play,and is an insane ball hawk.

But, Troy was 206 LBs coming out of college(that's 30 more than Tyrann) and, despite being used all over the defense in college, he was drafted to play safety in the NFL. Tyrann could add weight but there is no guarantee he can do it and remain fast and he flat out cannot play NFL safety at 176 lbs. Troy ran a 4.33 coming out of college at 206lbs. So while he wasn't ideal size at only 5'10", he had a stout build and fantastic speed. Its unknown if Tyrann can add 30ish lbs and still keep his speed.

This year will be his determining year because LSU will likely keep him at the CB position moreso than last year since he is their best CB. He will be lined up against other team's #1 WRs, something he hasn't done in the past. People forget he was just a sophomore last year, that can explain a lot of the coverage mistakes he made. I suspect this year his stats may drop off a little, because he will be lined up on an island more, but I expect his NFL value will go up as teams get to see this kid do what NFL teams want him to do, and that is play corner.
So where would you place Mathieu among the cornerback prospects and do you think he deserves a 1st round grade at that position?

Personally, I think he'd make a fantastic FS safety with the importance put on coverage in today's game. His speed, quickness and agility allows him to cover wayyy more ground then say Reid, McDonald and Lester can. Not to mention with his skillset as a corner he could also come down and play the Nickel where he's thrived in the LSU defense.

I just see him having more success in that type of role then say being isolated on the outside against the likes of Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Brandon Marshall, or being purely a nickel corner where he'd only be a part time player.

Just think of his playing style, does it remind you of guys like Ed Reed, Polamalu and Charles Woodson (Yes I know he's listed as a corner, but his position is unique to the NFL) or guys like Revis, Asomugha, and Webster?

BlueSanta
07-29-2012, 02:28 AM
So where would you place Mathieu among the cornerback prospects and do you think he deserves a 1st round grade at that position?

Personally, I think he'd make a fantastic FS safety with the importance put on coverage in today's game. His speed, quickness and agility allows him to cover wayyy more ground then say Reid, McDonald and Lester can. Not to mention with his skillset as a corner he could also come down and play the Nickel where he's thrived in the LSU defense.

I just see him having more success in that type of role then say being isolated on the outside against the likes of Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald and Brandon Marshall, or being purely a nickel corner where he'd only be a part time player.

Just think of his playing style, does it remind you of guys like Ed Reed, Polamalu and Charles Woodson (Yes I know he's listed as a corner, but his position is unique to the NFL) or guys like Revis, Asomugha, and Webster?

You are right he will never be a guy you line up on a Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitz etc. But, if he has a good year this year when being asked to play more of a cover role in his defense, then he can be a mid 1st round cornerback. Btw, all of this is assuming LSU is actually listing him at his actual size(this is not a given lately.)

I think there are better NFL prospects at the position going into next year. In fact, there are some good big corners coming out in 2013. NFL scouts like guys with man experience and Xavier Rhodes and especially David Amerson. Amerson is every bit the ball hawk Tyronn was last year. Another highly touted guy is Johnthan Banks who I love. These are 3 players who opposing teams absolutely will avoid next year and most expect a dropoff in stats because of it. These are guys that can line up against bigger stronger outside WRs. I expect them to be 3 of the most coveted guys in the draft.

The thing Mathieu has going for him is I do think teams will test him at the CB position.With his size(5'9 175), they have to. Remember, this is a guy with measurables almost identical to Jayron Hosely. Like Hosely, Mathieu also failed a drug test in college. Hosely was a good ball hawk, but few can compare to Mathieu. Both were good return men, but Mathieu also gets that edge as well. However, few would argue Jayron was a better pure cover corner, though Mathieu has an opportunity this year to show himself in that regard.

Just being honest here, I think Mathieu has some problems as a pro prospects if he doesnt show thos cover skills. I could legitely see about 5 others CBs vault ahead of Tyronn if he doesnt show himself well as a corner. I do however, think that because of his ball hawk ability that he would be a last 1st round talent if the draft were tomorrow. If he can have a great year next year I think he could be a mid 1st rounder. But, he has to prove that the ONLY bad thing anyone can say about him is he is small. As it is now, he is small, with questionable cover skills and that is a bad combo for an NFL defensive back. I am certain NFL scouts would gladly accept a dropoff in the takeaways if Tyronn could show more cover skills. He is a proven ball hawk, he is not a proven cover player.

Even tho he has a great skillset , some guys just arent big enough to play safety in the NFL and I do think Mathieu falls in this category. Safety, after all, has to go up for jump balls with big outside WRs as much if not more than CBs. As tough as he is, I do not want to see this kid going up against a Cavlin Johnson for a jump ball or a Gronkowski in the endzone, which is exactly what every opposing ofense would try to set up. That is what safety's have to do. I also dont want to see him have to consistently tackle a guy who might have 100lbs on him in the open field. However, if he shows he can cover, I would love to see a ball hawk like that line up over a guy like Desean Jackson or Steve Smith(carolina's version). Smaller, quicker Dbs do have a place in the league, if they can cover.

Carter.525
08-05-2012, 10:12 PM
Honey Badger.. this guy is always around the ball

Redeyejedi
08-06-2012, 09:51 AM
Should of posted this awhile ago

Eric Reid vs 7 Teams


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt8M8cCqoYw&feature=plcp


Tyrann Mathieu

vs Ark


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhL_E5BThe0&feature=plcp

vs Georgia


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfF8YjGYmak&feature=plcp

Redeyejedi
08-06-2012, 10:00 AM
vs WV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZdkVflS7zI

vs Tenn and Florida


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lPFC1lIJI8


This is the Video that shows Tyrann's issue with bigger stronger receivers. 6'3 215 pound Darick Rodgers gets off the press with ease and burns him

rainierjef
08-10-2012, 01:16 PM
Well this is a moot argument. Mathieu is being dismissed from school for possible failed drug test. his third fail drug test; smfh the kid was so promising could of come out and enter the draft this year and be a top 15 pick.

penguinfarmer
08-12-2012, 01:17 PM
He was never a top 15 pick. He wasn't even eligible for the draft. He was only a true sophomore last season.