PDA

View Full Version : Felix Jones out of shape



ShakeandBake
07-31-2012, 02:30 PM
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8215275/felix-jones-two-other-dallas-cowboys-fail-conditioning-test

The talking heads are already looking stupid, how can anyone favor these guys? What a joke Dallas is!

Fuhgeddaboutit
07-31-2012, 02:51 PM
Oh well, sucks for that loser.

Ntegrase96
07-31-2012, 02:55 PM
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/8215275/felix-jones-two-other-dallas-cowboys-fail-conditioning-test

The talking heads are already looking stupid, how can anyone favor these guys? What a joke Dallas is!

Because our 2nd RB and two other guys could not pass a conditioning test?

You should know that this is a weed out process. Garrett has weeded out most of the weak.

ShakeandBake
07-31-2012, 03:23 PM
Because our 2nd RB and two other guys could not pass a conditioning test?

You should know that this is a weed out process. Garrett has weeded out most of the weak.

Dallas has been building up a reputation lately of producing players who are not motivated. These three guys won't have that much of an impact, but they're just a small part of a larger problem. My point is that nothing has changed in Dallas as far as the "culture" is concerned, so to expect that they are going to improve from last year let alone win the division is going to bring nothing but more disappointment for you guys.

Ntegrase96
07-31-2012, 03:34 PM
Dallas has been building up a reputation lately of producing players who are not motivated. These three guys won't have that much of an impact, but they're just a small part of a larger problem. My point is that nothing has changed in Dallas as far as the "culture" is concerned, so to expect that they are going to improve from last year let alone win the division is going to bring nothing but more disappointment for you guys.

I disagree, but then again I have the benefit of actually following the Cowboys in depth.

As a Cowboys fan I regularly see the tweets of players working out with each other on their own time and then there are quotes like this one from Brandon Carr;

“I was just surprised coming into this whole process of being a free agent and meeting with the Cowboys that a lot of the guys stay here and workout,” Carr said after an NFL Play 60 fitness event in North Dallas. “That’s something you don’t really see with a lot of teams, guys staying for the off-season when they could be out traveling to other cities and other states. The guys are here and getting it in.”

Curious though... which other players on the Cowboys aren't motivated?

ShakeandBake
07-31-2012, 04:41 PM
I disagree, but then again I have the benefit of actually following the Cowboys in depth.

As a Cowboys fan I regularly see the tweets of players working out with each other on their own time and then there are quotes like this one from Brandon Carr;

“I was just surprised coming into this whole process of being a free agent and meeting with the Cowboys that a lot of the guys stay here and workout,” Carr said after an NFL Play 60 fitness event in North Dallas. “That’s something you don’t really see with a lot of teams, guys staying for the off-season when they could be out traveling to other cities and other states. The guys are here and getting it in.”

Curious though... which other players on the Cowboys aren't motivated?

Sure, cherry pick a quote from a first year player on the Cowboys, do you really think he is going to say something negative? The Cowboys are known for not being able to develop talent, ala players being unmotivated. Take a look at Dez Bryant, has all the tools but is not willing to fully comitt to the game of football, he has all the talent in the world but the Cowboys can not mentor the kid, Marcellus Bennett was another guy, etc etc. You have some hard working dedicated players, sure every team does, but my perception of your team will not change until you guys actually do something. You guys are constantly touted as "one of the most talented team in the nfl"yet you never produce. If you guys have so much talent, then where are the results?

Ntegrase96
07-31-2012, 05:12 PM
Sure, cherry pick a quote from a first year player on the Cowboys, do you really think he is going to say something negative? The Cowboys are known for not being able to develop talent, ala players being unmotivated. Take a look at Dez Bryant, has all the tools but is not willing to fully comitt to the game of football, he has all the talent in the world but the Cowboys can not mentor the kid, Marcellus Bennett was another guy, etc etc. You have some hard working dedicated players, sure every team does, but my perception of your team will not change until you guys actually do something. You guys are constantly touted as "one of the most talented team in the nfl"yet you never produce. If you guys have so much talent, then where are the results?


Marty B is a very good example, but he's not a Cowboy anymore-- he's your problem now. A step toward culture change? Absolutely...

A year removed from Wade Phillips, Bryant is NOT unmotivated.
1. http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/cowboys-wr-coach-dez-bryants-h.html/
2. http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=112&f=1786&t=9046557
3. http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/05/23/12/Bryant-more-confident-about-upcoming-sea/landing_cowboys.html?blockID=734494
4. http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/06/18/12/Romo-pleased-with-Bryants-progress/landing_cowboys.html?blockID=747898

... and I think that's probably enough to not be considered cherry picking. Football IS Dez Bryant's life.

So you've got a guy who is no longer on the team and Dez Bryant who is clearly 'getting it' now that there is a solid HC. Who are the 'et ceteras'? Please name the other unmotivated players.

I see where you have gotten that perspective, and I suppose it's fair that you keep your opinion until they 'actually do something'-- doesn't really matter to me.

All I'm saying, is I see things differently and soon you will too.

ShakeandBake
07-31-2012, 05:30 PM
Marty B is a very good example, but he's not a Cowboy anymore-- he's your problem now. A step toward culture change? Absolutely...

A year removed from Wade Phillips, Bryant is NOT unmotivated.
1. http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/cowboys-wr-coach-dez-bryants-h.html/
2. http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=112&f=1786&t=9046557
3. http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/05/23/12/Bryant-more-confident-about-upcoming-sea/landing_cowboys.html?blockID=734494
4. http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/06/18/12/Romo-pleased-with-Bryants-progress/landing_cowboys.html?blockID=747898

... and I think that's probably enough to not be considered cherry picking. Football IS Dez Bryant's life.

So you've got a guy who is no longer on the team and Dez Bryant who is clearly 'getting it' now that there is a solid HC. Who are the 'et ceteras'? Please name the other unmotivated players.

I see where you have gotten that perspective, and I suppose it's fair that you keep your opinion until they 'actually do something'-- doesn't really matter to me.

All I'm saying, is I see things differently and soon you will too.

You guys got rid of some of these guys (Pacman Jones and now Jenkins for example) but you continue this trend with guys such as the three that were mentioned in the article. You guys are on the right track with Garrett, I'll admit that but inevitably Jerry Jones will get involved and there goes your continuity. My initial point was that every season we hear that the Cowboys are new and improved, loaded with talent, yet you guys never yield any results, so you guys do not deserve to be favored to win the division. If you guys have all of this talent and comradery then you should be consistently at the top of the division, which is not the case.

SweetZombieJesus
07-31-2012, 06:57 PM
I disagree, but then again I have the benefit of actually following the Cowboys in depth.

As a Cowboys fan I regularly see the tweets of players working out with each other on their own time and then there are quotes like this one from Brandon Carr;

“I was just surprised coming into this whole process of being a free agent and meeting with the Cowboys that a lot of the guys stay here and workout,” Carr said after an NFL Play 60 fitness event in North Dallas. “That’s something you don’t really see with a lot of teams, guys staying for the off-season when they could be out traveling to other cities and other states. The guys are here and getting it in.”

Curious though... which other players on the Cowboys aren't motivated?


Bennet, for one? Isn't that the rap on him?

And how about people who take vacations in Cabo before the biggest game of their lives or pursue pro-am golf in the off season? ;)

Ntegrase96
07-31-2012, 07:00 PM
You guys got rid of some of these guys (Pacman Jones and now Jenkins for example) but you continue this trend with guys such as the three that were mentioned in the article. You guys are on the right track with Garrett, I'll admit that but inevitably Jerry Jones will get involved and there goes your continuity.

Jenkins?

These '3 guys' are Jones, Brodney Pool, and Andre Holmes. Pool is a newcomer this year who failed the conditioning portion because of back spasms, and Holmes is behind Coale, Radway and Ogletree at this point fighting for a 3rd WR position... he probably won't even make it.

I understand why you have the perception that you do. That's fine. Wade Phillips didn't run a tight shift and the team fell apart eventually because of it. But Wade has been gone for a year and a half now and Garrett has been putting everything back together.

And as I've mentioned many times before, Jerry is in the process of stepping down from the 'football' side of things. He's still a promoter and an owner, but calling the shots? Hardly. He's given that up to Stephen and Garrett.


My initial point was that every season we hear that the Cowboys are new and improved, loaded with talent, yet you guys never yield any results, so you guys do not deserve to be favored to win the division. If you guys have all of this talent and comradery then you should be consistently at the top of the division, which is not the case.

This point is poor overall if we're talking about the division crown. In the last six years, the Cowboys, Giants, and Eagles all have the same number of division titles-- same goes for the last 3 years.

Also, it's just not true. The buzz around the Cowboys stems with what Garrett has been able to do via youth movement. We many more young stars on this team (Bryant, Murray, Smith, Carter, Lee, Carr, Claiborne) than we have had in a while, opposed to last year's "Cowboys look like an 8-8 team". And, for the most part, the light is shining bright on the Eagles at the moment... not the Cowboys.

ShakeandBake
07-31-2012, 10:44 PM
This point is poor overall if we're talking about the division crown. In the last six years, the Cowboys, Giants, and Eagles all have the same number of division titles-- same goes for the last 3 years.

Also, it's just not true. The buzz around the Cowboys stems with what Garrett has been able to do via youth movement. We many more young stars on this team (Bryant, Murray, Smith, Carter, Lee, Carr, Claiborne) than we have had in a while, opposed to last year's "Cowboys look like an 8-8 team". And, for the most part, the light is shining bright on the Eagles at the moment... not the Cowboys.


I'm talking about this year, when you guys are trying to win the division from the defending champions. You guys picked up a lot of young talent recently, like Cobb and you drafter some nice young talent like Claiborne but they have never played together. You are talking about an entire new secondary here, not just trying to plug in one new guy, so I don't expect anything from them this year but they definitely have potential to be a threat down the line.

We may have the same amount of division titles within the last six years, but you guys have one playoff win in that span of time(and since the 90s) while we have had 8 playoff victories in 6 years including superbowl wins. We didn't lose any of our key players during the off-season, and your team has not improved enough to be considered a favorite for the title this year.

joemorrisforprez
07-31-2012, 10:54 PM
Definitely not the Glory Hole days of the 90's for Dallas

sharick88
08-01-2012, 02:03 AM
Seriously, if I were a cowboys fan, I would be more worried about this kind of stuff it was happening during preseason games or closer to the season. Plenty of players come into training camp out of shape.

Ntegrase96
08-01-2012, 11:03 AM
I'm talking about this year, when you guys are trying to win the division from the defending champions. You guys picked up a lot of young talent recently, like Cobb and you drafter some nice young talent like Claiborne but they have never played together. You are talking about an entire new secondary here, not just trying to plug in one new guy, so I don't expect anything from them this year but they definitely have potential to be a threat down the line.

So you agree that the culture is changing? Great, thanks...




We may have the same amount of division titles within the last six years, but you guys have one playoff win in that span of time(and since the 90s) while we have had 8 playoff victories in 6 years including superbowl wins. We didn't lose any of our key players during the off-season, and your team has not improved enough to be considered a favorite for the title this year.



And what does that have to do with winning the division? I'll admit that it sucks that we haven't won much, but if we're talking about winning the division, how do victories in the playoff fit in?

Basically you're saying that 'the Cowboys should not be favored to win the division' (which they aren't any way) because the Giants played well the playoffs and won the superbowl. Your superbowl ring has no bearing on the 2012 regular season.

This makes no sense because while the Giants may be a good playoff team, they are a mediocre regular season team just like the Cowboys. It's why they missed the playoffs the two years prior to catching fire last year. It's the reason they'll play great against the patriots but lose to the seahawks. It's the reason why they don't dominate every year in the NFCE regular season-- no one does.

GMENAGAIN
08-01-2012, 12:06 PM
Because our 2nd RB and two other guys could not pass a conditioning test?

You should know that this is a weed out process. Garrett has weeded out most of the weak.

Still surprising that Felix Jones failed a conditioning test . . . . Man, you sort of expect it from the big linemen, but not the skill position guys. is there any explanation for it other than he is out of shape? (an injury or something?)

Ntegrase96
08-01-2012, 12:27 PM
Still surprising that Felix Jones failed a conditioning test . . . . Man, you sort of expect it from the big linemen, but not the skill position guys. is there any explanation for it other than he is out of shape? (an injury or something?)

He is rehabing from a shoulder injury and hasn't worked out in a while, but I hardly consider that an excuse seeing how another one of our 3rd WR hopefuls is rehabing from a broken leg, and Murray had the ankle injury. But then again, I'm not 100% sure on the time frame of Jones' last surgery.

ShakeandBake
08-01-2012, 12:28 PM
[QUOTE=Ntegrase96;440770]So you agree that the culture is changing? Great, thanks...

You've been on the right track....for one season. Don't hold your breath.



And what does that have to do with winning the division? I'll admit that it sucks that we haven't won much, but if we're talking about winning the division, how do victories in the playoff fit in?

Basically you're saying that 'the Cowboys should not be favored to win the division' (which they aren't any way) because the Giants played well the playoffs and won the superbowl. Your superbowl ring has no bearing on the 2012 regular season.

This makes no sense because while the Giants may be a good playoff team, they are a mediocre regular season team just like the Cowboys. It's why they missed the playoffs the two years prior to catching fire last year. It's the reason they'll play great against the patriots but lose to the seahawks. It's the reason why they don't dominate every year in the NFCE regular season-- no one does.

You brought up the playoff wins not me, you were trying to argue that you guys have been as competitive as we have been in recent years, when in reality you guys haven't done anything lately in the post season.

You are cherry picking what I said about how the Giants should be chosen to win the division, part of the reason is because they won the superbowl because they clearly have the potential to win again, especially considering the super bowl team is virtually intact with the exception of Jacobs and Mario Manningham. It makes perfect sense for the Giants to be favored for these reasons, and that you guys have not done enough in the off-season to improve your team enough. We also had more injuries on our team last year than I have ever seen in my entire life, yet we still managed to win the division and the super bowl.

Ntegrase96
08-01-2012, 01:15 PM
You've been on the right track....for one season. Don't hold your breath.


That's fair-- I agree it hasn't been a long time that the team has been turning it around. I've been saying this is year 2 in a 3 year rebuild process. Fortunately, we had a jumpstart when Wade gave us a gift before he departed with Sean Lee. In the last 2 years, the Cowboys have acquired their captain and leader of the defense, starting running back, legit playmaking WR, a very young/very good LT etc... The future of the team has been acquired over the last couple of years.



You brought up the playoff wins not me, you were trying to argue that you guys have been as competitive as we have been in recent years, when in reality you guys haven't done anything lately in the post season.

I argued that the Cowboys have been just as competitive within the division as the Giants have when you made the comment that the Cowboys 'don't deserve to be favored to win the division'. To which I replied that each of the top 3 NFCE contenders have won division titles in the past 6 years-- meaning the Cowboys have every right to be considered a contender for the division crown.

It's simple... just read back a few posts and see who mentioned playoffs first. Is this not your quote?


We may have the same amount of division titles within the last six years, but you guys have one playoff win in that span of time(and since the 90s) while we have had 8 playoff victories in 6 years including superbowl wins. We didn't lose any of our key players during the off-season, and your team has not improved enough to be considered a favorite for the title this year.

See the transition from division title talk to playoffs that YOU made?


You are cherry picking what I said about how the Giants should be chosen to win the division, part of the reason is because they won the superbowl because they clearly have the potential to win again, especially considering the super bowl team is virtually intact with the exception of Jacobs and Mario Manningham. It makes perfect sense for the Giants to be favored for these reasons, and that you guys have not done enough in the off-season to improve your team enough. We also had more injuries on our team last year than I have ever seen in my entire life, yet we still managed to win the division and the super bowl.

I'm not cherry picking at all. I'm pointing out a flaw in your logic.

Yes, the 2011 Giants are mostly in tact. But superbowl champs or not, the Giants were not a great regular season team. They were the same inconsistent team they always have been the last 6 years (save 2008). And I realize a big part of that are injuries… they always are and it probably won’t be any different this year. But let's not pretend that the Giants won the division by an overwhelming distance, and let's not pretend that the other two teams didn't have their injuries as well (also both teams made significant upgrades to their weaknesses, whereas the Giants ingored theirs).

Now, back to your original statement—“The Cowboys should not be considered a favorite to win the division.”

So tell me… Do you think the Giants should be favored? It seems like that’s what you’re implying and have been implying all along.

ShakeandBake
08-01-2012, 02:03 PM
I argued that the Cowboys have been just as competitive within the division as the Giants have when you made the comment that the Cowboys 'don't deserve to be favored to win the division'. To which I replied that each of the top 3 NFCE contenders have won division titles in the past 6 years-- meaning the Cowboys have every right to be considered a contender for the division crown.

It's simple... just read back a few posts and see who mentioned playoffs first. Is this not your quote?

I was referencing last year as far as playoffs were concerned, which you dismissed as irrelevant in concerning this year's discussion. Then you go ahead and bring up the passed 6 years to try to argue the same thing, makes PERFECT SENSE. Weren't you trying to argue that there was a flaw in my logic?




See the transition from division title talk to playoffs that YOU made?

Yeah because you were trying to argue that we have been even the passed six years(even though you argued that last year is irrelevant, so why would years beyond that be relevant?) I brought up the playoff wins to further emphasize how irrelevant you guys are, same amount of opportunities within those 6 years for both teams, yet the Giants have capitalized where Dallas has failed.



I'm not cherry picking at all. I'm pointing out a flaw in your logic.

Yes, the 2011 Giants are mostly in tact. But superbowl champs or not, the Giants were not a great regular season team. They were the same inconsistent team they always have been the last 6 years (save 2008). And I realize a big part of that are injuries… they always are and it probably won’t be any different this year. But let's not pretend that the Giants won the division by an overwhelming distance, and let's not pretend that the other two teams didn't have their injuries as well (also both teams made significant upgrades to their weaknesses, whereas the Giants ingored theirs).

Now, back to your original statement—“The Cowboys should not be considered a favorite to win the division.”

So tell me… Do you think the Giants should be favored? It seems like that’s what you’re implying and have been implying all along.

I'll have to disagree with you here, but then again I have the benefit of following the Giants in depth ;). Again let me reiterate that last year was one of the most injury riddled teams I have ever seen, definitely comparable to what the Packers had to deal with the season prior. Anyway it seems like we are going in circles here, but let me just say again that you are not poking holes in my logic, logic would dictate that in order to beat out the team who won the division last year(and the superbowl) you would have to improve enough to do so which you have not. We are better than we were last year, while the only significant moves your team has made was upgrading your secondary from complete garbage, to potentially being decent. Definitely not enough to assume that you guys will take the NFC crown this year.

TheAnalyst
08-01-2012, 02:08 PM
Can't wait to see Bennett play TE for us. Cowboys fans are going to be like "Where was this guy in Dallas?!". Answer, stuck behind Jason Witten and un motivated. He is highly motivated right now. Perfect for a 1 year contract.

Ntegrase96
08-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Can't wait to see Bennett play TE for us. Cowboys fans are going to be like "Where was this guy in Dallas?!". Answer, stuck behind Jason Witten and un motivated. He is highly motivated right now. Perfect for a 1 year contract.

I agree it's a good pick up for the contract, but stuck behind Jason Witten? I guess he was stuck behind John Phillips also...

Ntegrase96
08-01-2012, 03:27 PM
I was referencing last year as far as playoffs were concerned, which you dismissed as irrelevant in concerning this year's discussion. Then you go ahead and bring up the passed 6 years to try to argue the same thing, makes PERFECT SENSE. Weren't you trying to argue that there was a flaw in my logic?

Yeah because you were trying to argue that we have been even the passed six years(even though you argued that last year is irrelevant, so why would years beyond that be relevant?) I brought up the playoff wins to further emphasize how irrelevant you guys are, same amount of opportunities within those 6 years for both teams, yet the Giants have capitalized where Dallas has failed.

Okay, I'll try this one more time... This is your quote that I responded to. I've copied and pasted it so that you can see it without having to go back through this exchange.


...My initial point was that every season we hear that the Cowboys are new and improved, loaded with talent, yet you guys never yield any results, so you guys do not deserve to be favored to win the division. If you guys have all of this talent and comradery then you should be consistently at the top of the division, which is not the case.

See it? Here, I'll narrow it down...


...so you guys do not deserve to be favored to win the division...

I responded to the idea that the Cowboys 'don't deserve to be favored to win the the division', which is just asinine when you consider that the division is typically up for grabs, as illustrated by DAL, NYG, PHI all having 2 divisional titles under their belts in the last 6 years-- this number isn't arbitrary. And that's it.

I did not bring up playoffs at all, and I do not dispute that the Giants have had more success than the Cowboys in the post season. I did, however, criticize the idea that a traditionally strong post season team translates into a division title winner. It doesn't. Just like the poor effort the Cowboys have displayed in the post season hasn't affected their ability to win the NFCE-- as you implied (I'll post your quote again, if you'd like).


I'll have to disagree with you here, but then again I have the benefit of following the Giants in depth ;). Again let me reiterate that last year was one of the most injury riddled teams I have ever seen, definitely comparable to what the Packers had to deal with the season prior. Anyway it seems like we are going in circles here, but let me just say again that you are not poking holes in my logic, logic would dictate that in order to beat out the team who won the division last year(and the superbowl) you would have to improve enough to do so which you have not. We are better than we were last year, while the only significant moves your team has made was upgrading your secondary from complete garbage, to potentially being decent. Definitely not enough to assume that you guys will take the NFC crown this year.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

You think I don't follow the Giants in depth? You think that in the four years I've been a member of these boards that I haven't read through the majority of the posts? Not just here in the Smack Talk section-- but in TAGF. In your draft section. Gerneral sports section.

I've followed them in depth enough to know that the injuries you all sustained weren't nearly as bad as you want them to seem. Yeah a few guys went out for the year, and TT was probably the biggest hit you all had. But a lot of the guys hadn't played a down with your team or were depth players. Not only that, the injuries to your WR core helped bring about a very valuable player with Victor Cruz. Osi was banged up and so was Tuck at times, but you never really lost any valuable player for long stretches. And at the end of the season you got healthy. So just stop with the injuries-- you'll endure them again this season, the Giants ALWAYS do.

And I won't bore you with the moves that we've made this offseason, but strengthening the secondary was far from the only move we made.

Ntegrase96
08-01-2012, 03:45 PM
Before you reply again ShakeandBake, I want to point out that I understand what you're talking about.

You see your team as a superbowl winning team that is going to put it all together next year, and the Cowboys are a team that were bad and will be bad again this year because they did not make significant upgrades.

If that's something you want to discuss, that's fine.

ShakeandBake
08-01-2012, 05:27 PM
I responded to the idea that the Cowboys 'don't deserve to be favored to win the the division', which is just asinine when you consider that the division is typically up for grabs, as illustrated by DAL, NYG, PHI all having 2 divisional titles under their belts in the last 6 years-- this number isn't arbitrary. And that's it.

I did not bring up playoffs at all, and I do not dispute that the Giants have had more success than the Cowboys in the post season. I did, however, criticize the idea that a traditionally strong post season team translates into a division title winner. It doesn't. Just like the poor effort the Cowboys have displayed in the post season hasn't affected their ability to win the NFCE-- as you implied (I'll post your quote again, if you'd like).

How is it an asinine? My argument has been that we should be favored to win the division based on the fact that we won it last year and have virtually the same team if not better considering how banged up we were, while you guys finished a game behind us. You then dismiss that by saying last year didn't matter, and then try to argue that by saying that over the last six years the division winners have been split 3-ways(this doesn't make sense unless you are willing to accept that last year is relevant). I didn't imply that because you guys haven't been successfull in the post season that means you will not win the NFCE, I was implying that we have the better team, which furthers my argument that our chances will be better than yours this year because that team is still intact. We have a better team than you guys do, and nothing you guys did this off-season tells me otherwise.




What exactly are you disagreeing with?

You think I don't follow the Giants in depth? You think that in the four years I've been a member of these boards that I haven't read through the majority of the posts? Not just here in the Smack Talk section-- but in TAGF. In your draft section. Gerneral sports section.


I've followed them in depth enough to know that the injuries you all sustained weren't nearly as bad as you want them to seem. Yeah a few guys went out for the year, and TT was probably the biggest hit you all had. But a lot of the guys hadn't played a down with your team or were depth players. Not only that, the injuries to your WR core helped bring about a very valuable player with Victor Cruz. Osi was banged up and so was Tuck at times, but you never really lost any valuable player for long stretches. And at the end of the season you got healthy. So just stop with the injuries-- you'll endure them again this season, the Giants ALWAYS do.

And I won't bore you with the moves that we've made this offseason, but strengthening the secondary was far from the only move we made.

I was mocking you, you said this same thing to me earlier in the thread in regards to the Cowturds. You clearly do not follow them otherwise you would understand how significant our injuries were last year, we were hurt all over the place, our only consistently healthy positions were the WR and QB. I know who you are, and you should know who I am since I have been around here awhile too, but hey lets assume I don't know anything because this is a new username and my post count is low.

Here let me give you a good example: you said that we never really lost any valuable player for a stretch, but you're absolutely wrong. We lost our starting corner(TT), our starting MLB(Goff), Osi for 8 games, Prince for 8 games, Tuck was banged up all season and missed games as well. We lost our starting left tackle for the season, Snee was out for a few games as well. Those are the "valuable" players that we never lost, not including the depth that we lost such as the 5? 6? corner backs, two return men, and so on and so forth. The only positions we were healthy at were WR and QB. I guess those guys aren't important though, or at least not in your expert opinion.

Ntegrase96
08-01-2012, 06:34 PM
How is it an asinine? My argument has been that we should be favored to win the division based on the fact that we won it last year and have virtually the same team if not better considering how banged up we were, while you guys finished a game behind us. You then dismiss that by saying last year didn't matter, and then try to argue that by saying that over the last six years the division winners have been split 3-ways(this doesn't make sense unless you are willing to accept that last year is relevant). I didn't imply that because you guys haven't been successfull in the post season that means you will not win the NFCE, I was implying that we have the better team, which furthers my argument that our chances will be better than yours this year because that team is still intact. We have a better team than you guys do, and nothing you guys did this off-season tells me otherwise.

Yeah I changed my position a bit above. As you said we were going in circles, pretty much not talking about the same thing. So slate clean, start over from here--

That's a fair assesment that you feel you have a better team. I just don't think that the Giants are overwhelmingly better than either the Cowboys, nor Eagles.

However, you seem to be dismissing most of the moves the Cowboys have made this offseason outside of getting a top 10 corner and drafting the best corner prospect, unless you just aren't aware of the changes made.






I was mocking you, you said this same thing to me earlier in the thread in regards to the Cowturds. You clearly do not follow them otherwise you would understand how significant our injuries were last year, we were hurt all over the place, our only consistently healthy positions were the WR and QB. I know who you are, and you should know who I am since I have been around here awhile too, but hey lets assume I don't know anything because this is a new username and my post count is low.

Here let me give you a good example: you said that we never really lost any valuable player for a stretch, but you're absolutely wrong. We lost our starting corner(TT), our starting MLB(Goff), Osi for 8 games, Prince for 8 games, Tuck was banged up all season and missed games as well. We lost our starting left tackle for the season, Snee was out for a few games as well. Those are the "valuable" players that we never lost, not including the depth that we lost such as the 5? 6? corner backs, two return men, and so on and so forth. The only positions we were healthy at were WR and QB. I guess those guys aren't important though, or at least not in your expert opinion.

Right, I know who you are. ShakeNBake. I figured that since many other posters here had trouble with the transition. I made mention of the TT injury and the depth behind him. Admittedly, the Osi injury slipped my mind. That was a big one.

But how is that different than missing your number 1 WR for 6 games (and then never being fully healthy), not having any of your 3 starting RBs to end the season, both starting guards, center at times, FB for weeks, QB with broken ribs for the fist half of the season, Safety out, backup NT out the last 5 games of the season, best DE out for a three game stretch, etc...?

Teams get injured. And while you have depth coming back from injuries so do we. Yes, we finished one game worse in terms of the fighting for the division crown. Is that really large enough discrepeny to say that the Cowboys don't deserve to be considered the favorites?

I personally think the favorites should be the Eagles, but really I can make arguments for all three teams.

GMENAGAIN
08-01-2012, 09:24 PM
Can't wait to see Bennett play TE for us. Cowboys fans are going to be like "Where was this guy in Dallas?!". Answer, stuck behind Jason Witten and un motivated. He is highly motivated right now. Perfect for a 1 year contract.
He was playing for a new deal last year too, right?

ShakeandBake
08-02-2012, 03:35 PM
[QUOTE=Ntegrase96;441037]Yeah I changed my position a bit above. As you said we were going in circles, pretty much not talking about the same thing. So slate clean, start over from here--

That's a fair assesment that you feel you have a better team. I just don't think that the Giants are overwhelmingly better than either the Cowboys, nor Eagles.

However, you seem to be dismissing most of the moves the Cowboys have made this offseason outside of getting a top 10 corner and drafting the best corner prospect, unless you just aren't aware of the changes made.


You're right I definitely do not know as much as you do in regards to the off season moves Dallas made this year, I didn't hear about any big splashes outside of Cobb and the draft of course, so who else did you guys pickup that you think will crack your starting line-up? As I said earlier I think Cobb and Mo can help you guys down the line but I do not think they will have that much of an impact this season especially early on because of the lack of continuity your secondary has had as of late. Since these were the biggest moves you guys made this off season that I was aware of, I would assume that your team will not be that much better than you were last season.

Then when you look at the Giants, we are much healthier than we were last season, and made some key pickups to fill in the gaps that we lost last year. The only aspect that I am concerned about is the offensive line. Anyway I think that we have the better chance at winning the division because I still believe that we have the overall better team, but winning the division is no guarantee especially considering how competitive it has been as of late as you pointed out earlier.



Right, I know who you are. ShakeNBake. I figured that since many other posters here had trouble with the transition. I made mention of the TT injury and the depth behind him. Admittedly, the Osi injury slipped my mind. That was a big one.

But how is that different than missing your number 1 WR for 6 games (and then never being fully healthy), not having any of your 3 starting RBs to end the season, both starting guards, center at times, FB for weeks, QB with broken ribs for the fist half of the season, Safety out, backup NT out the last 5 games of the season, best DE out for a three game stretch, etc...?

Teams get injured. And while you have depth coming back from injuries so do we. Yes, we finished one game worse in terms of the fighting for the division crown. Is that really large enough discrepeny to say that the Cowboys don't deserve to be considered the favorites?

I personally think the favorites should be the Eagles, but really I can make arguments for all three teams.

I understand what you are saying about the injuries, and to be honest if the shoe was on the other foot I would dismiss those claims as well. The reason I believed that the amount of injuries we sustained last year was abnormal was because of an article that another poster on these boards posted awhile back, and we were ranked in the top 3 in this article, which also listed the 2010-2011 Packer team as well. I've been trying to dig this up but I can not find it, if anyone can find it and post it, many thanks.I personally have never seen a team so hampered by injuries, we were at the point where we were going to start picking corner backs off the street. Anyway I have been seeing most of the talking heads predict that Dallas or Philly will win the division, with the Giants getting no love as usual. I don't expect anyone to run away with the division, it has been tight as of late I just don't understand why the Giants are always treated as the Rodney Dangerfield of the NFC East.

Ntegrase96
08-02-2012, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE]

You're right I definitely do not know as much as you do in regards to the off season moves Dallas made this year, I didn't hear about any big splashes outside of Cobb and the draft of course, so who else did you guys pickup that you think will crack your starting line-up? As I said earlier I think Cobb and Mo can help you guys down the line but I do not think they will have that much of an impact this season especially early on because of the lack of continuity your secondary has had as of late. Since these were the biggest moves you guys made this off season that I was aware of, I would assume that your team will not be that much better than you were last season.

Then when you look at the Giants, we are much healthier than we were last season, and made some key pickups to fill in the gaps that we lost last year. The only aspect that I am concerned about is the offensive line. Anyway I think that we have the better chance at winning the division because I still believe that we have the overall better team, but winning the division is no guarantee especially considering how competitive it has been as of late as you pointed out earlier.




I understand what you are saying about the injuries, and to be honest if the shoe was on the other foot I would dismiss those claims as well. The reason I believed that the amount of injuries we sustained last year was abnormal was because of an article that another poster on these boards posted awhile back, and we were ranked in the top 3 in this article, which also listed the 2010-2011 Packer team as well. I've been trying to dig this up but I can not find it, if anyone can find it and post it, many thanks.I personally have never seen a team so hampered by injuries, we were at the point where we were going to start picking corner backs off the street. Anyway I have been seeing most of the talking heads predict that Dallas or Philly will win the division, with the Giants getting no love as usual. I don't expect anyone to run away with the division, it has been tight as of late I just don't understand why the Giants are always treated as the Rodney Dangerfield of the NFC East.

I think my confidence in this team stems from the old adage; you're only as good as your worst player. And last year our worst players were some of the worst in the league and destroyed any chances of our success.

Those players have since been jettison from the team. Not only are there improvements, but the improvements are vast. Carr over Newman is one of the biggest position upgrades in FA this year. Dan Connor and Bruce Carter over Bradie James and Keith Brooking. Vickers over Fiametta. And if we need him, Orton>Kitna.

And that goes for the coaches as well. Secondary Coach Dave Campo (idiot) is gone for one of the better secondary coaches in the league, Jerome Henderson. OL coach Hudson Houck (over the hill) is gone for Bill Callahan, one of the better OL coaches in the league (who will also be responsible for offensive game plans to help alleviate some of Garrett's duties so that Garrett himself can be a better HC.)

There are just a lot of things falling into place for this team in year 2 of it's rebuild. We've got question marks still, but the team has taken strides to fill the holes last years team had, and now some are strengths-- like say the CB position that is now 4 deep.


I myself haven't seen us favored by many, but then again I didn't expect to see that. Hell, while my expectations are high, I don't think this is 'our year' (save that for 2013). All I've heard is the Eagles talk, but in fairness I can't say that it's ridiculous. They have a tremendously talented roster and went 5-1 in the division last year.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 09:08 PM
I agree it's a good pick up for the contract, but stuck behind Jason Witten? I guess he was stuck behind John Phillips also... your going to sit there and say he wasn't stuck behind Witten? Come on man you can't be that blind I know your excited about you team this year but you got problems at safety this year and you did nothing to fix that offensive line they are right the divison this year is between the Giants and the Eagles you guys are the over hyped team that is suppose to win every year but don't. they say you guys got better cause you got carr and claborne, which I think is ridiculous cause he's a rookie and we have a 1st round drafted corner Princ who will be better in his second year but yet you guys gett all the hype trust me giant fans know if there is one weak spot in your secondary then you will have some problems with the pass and carr play along side with flowers in K.C. so before you guys think he is the next Revis let's see how he does by himself and he also faced a lot of weak qb's in the AFC I think you guys are overvaluing Carr. you also said winning the SB means nothing this year it does when you bring back most of the team that won it and that won 6 straight at the end of the season. I know we were 9-7 but you were 8-8 also.

JPP
08-02-2012, 11:39 PM
I've followed them in depth enough to know that the injuries you all sustained weren't nearly as bad as you want them to seem. Yeah a few guys went out for the year, and TT was probably the biggest hit you all had. But a lot of the guys hadn't played a down with your team or were depth players. Not only that, the injuries to your WR core helped bring about a very valuable player with Victor Cruz. Osi was banged up and so was Tuck at times, but you never really lost any valuable player for long stretches. And at the end of the season you got healthy. So just stop with the injuries-- you'll endure them again this season, the Giants ALWAYS do.

I don't agree with this we lost our starting MLB and CB were lost. Like you began mentioning we really only had both Osi and Tuck healthy, or at least in Tuck's case playing better, late in the season. As well we lost both our 1st and 2nd round picks in camp to injury, Austin for the season, and with TT already out and Prince, who was the quality depth we added in case of major injury. After that sure you can dismiss our other injuries as just depth guys but after losing some starters and their quality backups our secondary was scary thin and one of many contributing factors to our mid-season losing streak. We did have WR injuries, though not major, but that isn't what opened up Cruz's spot he was getting a shot anyway after losing Smith and Boss,

Ntegrase96
08-03-2012, 12:05 PM
your going to sit there and say he wasn't stuck behind Witten? Come on man you can't be that blind I know your excited about you team this year but you got problems at safety this year and you did nothing to fix that offensive line they are right the divison this year is between the Giants and the Eagles you guys are the over hyped team that is suppose to win every year but don't. they say you guys got better cause you got carr and claborne, which I think is ridiculous cause he's a rookie and we have a 1st round drafted corner Princ who will be better in his second year but yet you guys gett all the hype trust me giant fans know if there is one weak spot in your secondary then you will have some problems with the pass and carr play along side with flowers in K.C. so before you guys think he is the next Revis let's see how he does by himself and he also faced a lot of weak qb's in the AFC I think you guys are overvaluing Carr. you also said winning the SB means nothing this year it does when you bring back most of the team that won it and that won 6 straight at the end of the season. I know we were 9-7 but you were 8-8 also.

1. I've already explained to you how Bennett wasn't stuck behind Witten in a different thread.

2. Our problems at safety began once Barry Church went down with an injury-- he's healthy now. Also, we drafted a hard hitting/pass covering safety with some of the best measurables in the draft. He needs time transition, so there is also the signing of Brodney Pool (who was unfortunatley mentioned earlier in this thread)

3. First, we hired one of the best OL coaches in the league with Callahan. We swapped the tackles on the O'line now that the very young (but very good) Tyron Smith is ready-- watch for the battles between he and JPP for years to come. Doug Free is back to playing his more natural position at RT, where he was phenomenal in 2009. On the interior, I'd like to say we've gotten healthy, but we're getting stuck with injuries again. A bit of a set back, but nothing permanent-- also we added Nate Livings, McKenzie Bernadeau, and UFA Ron Leary (who looks to be beastly, but has a degenerative knee condition). It may not be the strongest o'line, and it may be one of our weakest positions, but it won't be weak. It will be better than last year. I'd say we did a lot to help strengthening our O'line... what did you guys do to fix yours?

4. Yes, we did get better. I personally am not expecting Claiborne to start right off the bat, but he contributes to the depth. A healthy Jenkins and Carr is a huge upgrade over Old Newman and Jenkins when he can't lift his arm above his head.

And while Carr was considered the 2nd corner behind Flowers, Carr has consistently gotten better each year and last year was better than flowers. It's the reason why Detroit wanted no part in the match up between Calvin Johnson and Carr last year, and opted to have Megatron line up opposite flowers instead (he wasn't getting it done against Calvin) . Carr held his own against the best passing division last year, the NFCN. We don't need him to be the next Revis. We just need he and the new core of CBs to give Spencer an extra tick to get to the QB-- Don't forget about the guy opposit Ware.

Ntegrase96
08-03-2012, 12:25 PM
I don't agree with this we lost our starting MLB and CB were lost. Like you began mentioning we really only had both Osi and Tuck healthy, or at least in Tuck's case playing better, late in the season. As well we lost both our 1st and 2nd round picks in camp to injury, Austin for the season, and with TT already out and Prince, who was the quality depth we added in case of major injury. After that sure you can dismiss our other injuries as just depth guys but after losing some starters and their quality backups our secondary was scary thin and one of many contributing factors to our mid-season losing streak. We did have WR injuries, though not major, but that isn't what opened up Cruz's spot he was getting a shot anyway after losing Smith and Boss,

I consider the worst injuries to be to Osi and TT. I, myself, didn't see the Goff injury to be all that detrimental. Now if it had've been Boley or Kiwi, I'd be more understanding.

Right, I get that you guys are getting players back... But to count Amukamara and Austin as losses seems a bit odd to me. They never took a snap with your team prior to that, so really what did you actually 'lose'. If that makes sense.

That's like saying the Cowboys lost Bruce Carter last year.

I thought Cruz got a shot because Hixon was done and the stunted growth of Barden because of injuries in the past. Not to mention, wasn't the first real action Cruz got because Manningham was out? I agree Cruz probably would have cracked the roster eventually, but the reason he got there so soon (presumably in time to save the season) was because of injuries to other players, no?

Let me be clear, I'm not trying to be dismissive about the injuries... I'm just saying, all things equal, a lot of teams were in the same position and your injuries weren't as bad as a lot of people make them seem around here. There were a lot, yes. But I'd say they don't have the impact of, say a hypothetical team that lost a starting QB and Premier pass rusher... like the Texans. Losing Coe and other no names for CB depth sucks, but it just does not compare.

JPP
08-04-2012, 03:28 PM
I consider the worst injuries to be to Osi and TT. I, myself, didn't see the Goff injury to be all that detrimental. Now if it had've been Boley or Kiwi, I'd be more understanding.

Right, I get that you guys are getting players back... But to count Amukamara and Austin as losses seems a bit odd to me. They never took a snap with your team prior to that, so really what did you actually 'lose'. If that makes sense.

That's like saying the Cowboys lost Bruce Carter last year.

I thought Cruz got a shot because Hixon was done and the stunted growth of Barden because of injuries in the past. Not to mention, wasn't the first real action Cruz got because Manningham was out? I agree Cruz probably would have cracked the roster eventually, but the reason he got there so soon (presumably in time to save the season) was because of injuries to other players, no?

Let me be clear, I'm not trying to be dismissive about the injuries... I'm just saying, all things equal, a lot of teams were in the same position and your injuries weren't as bad as a lot of people make them seem around here. There were a lot, yes. But I'd say they don't have the impact of, say a hypothetical team that lost a starting QB and Premier pass rusher... like the Texans. Losing Coe and other no names for CB depth sucks, but it just does not compare.

Yeah but like I said our starting MLB at that point we didn't even have Chase Blackburn, who was off teaching grade schoolers math. Just because he isn't an all-pro doesn't mean it wasn't a huge blow to the middle of our defense an area that was already weak.

Austin to a lesser extent but it also really sucked for him to lose yet another year of football, but Prince for sure should be viewed as a detrimental loss. People were hoping he would get to make a bit of an impact and help rearrange our secondary a bit but instead as soon as he signs his deal he goes down so he can't even practise in training camp(what was left). When he was selected he was widely viewed as next in line and added a really quality depth piece in case of injury, well that didn't work out so well and instead Role had to adjust his position in the defence which he struggled with until later down the stretch. But for sure you can make the argument you never now if they would have been useful, but Prince was down the stretch, plus wasn't Bruce Carter already injured when you drafted him? If so not quite as comparable; already injured 2nd rounder vs losing both your 1st and 2nd rounders. It would be like me saying that if you guys lost Claiborne that it doesn't count as a major injury because he hasn't played, even though it would complete change things around on your defense. I realise the difference between a top 10 pick and 19th but it is no more ridiculous then your Bruce Carter comparison.

Yea I think in those games yes he was slide up because of some banged up WR(which only goes to prove my point about the ridiculous amount of injuries we sustained) but arguing whether he would've/could've made the same impact if he got his chance a couple games later seems kind of pie in the sky so I'll just concede this because there is no way to prove otherwise.

I didn't argue we had the worst injuries I just think they were in total some pretty devastating things we had to overcome, not just to make the playoffs but to win a Superbowl. And the Texans suffered their injuries pretty late in the season in a pretty weak division. Obviously we had so good fortune with everybody coming together when they did but in reality you could argue we were without our premier pass rusher for most of the season, between Tuck being out/banged up and Osi missing games. If we lost our QB like Houston we wouldn't have got anywhere but that doesn't mean our injuries weren't bad.

OX1
08-05-2012, 10:44 AM
and so was Tuck at times, but you never really lost any valuable player for long stretches.

Beg to disagree, neck injury the entire season. The other injuries just piled on,
groin, ankle, shoulder, back, and toe. Not to mention his pride took a huge ding,
making him a shell of himself for most of the year. Right or wrong, he said "I suck",
and he did when his head wasn't in it.

That and players like Goff, who were just adequate. What do you get when your
adequate players go down, most times you get way less than that because if you
had anything better than adequate, they would be playing already.

Ntegrase96
08-06-2012, 07:44 PM
Yeah but like I said our starting MLB at that point we didn't even have Chase Blackburn, who was off teaching grade schoolers math. Just because he isn't an all-pro doesn't mean it wasn't a huge blow to the middle of our defense an area that was already weak.

Austin to a lesser extent but it also really sucked for him to lose yet another year of football, but Prince for sure should be viewed as a detrimental loss. People were hoping he would get to make a bit of an impact and help rearrange our secondary a bit but instead as soon as he signs his deal he goes down so he can't even practise in training camp(what was left). When he was selected he was widely viewed as next in line and added a really quality depth piece in case of injury, well that didn't work out so well and instead Role had to adjust his position in the defence which he struggled with until later down the stretch. But for sure you can make the argument you never now if they would have been useful, but Prince was down the stretch, plus wasn't Bruce Carter already injured when you drafted him? If so not quite as comparable; already injured 2nd rounder vs losing both your 1st and 2nd rounders. It would be like me saying that if you guys lost Claiborne that it doesn't count as a major injury because he hasn't played, even though it would complete change things around on your defense. I realise the difference between a top 10 pick and 19th but it is no more ridiculous then your Bruce Carter comparison.

Yea I think in those games yes he was slide up because of some banged up WR(which only goes to prove my point about the ridiculous amount of injuries we sustained) but arguing whether he would've/could've made the same impact if he got his chance a couple games later seems kind of pie in the sky so I'll just concede this because there is no way to prove otherwise.

I didn't argue we had the worst injuries I just think they were in total some pretty devastating things we had to overcome, not just to make the playoffs but to win a Superbowl. And the Texans suffered their injuries pretty late in the season in a pretty weak division. Obviously we had so good fortune with everybody coming together when they did but in reality you could argue we were without our premier pass rusher for most of the season, between Tuck being out/banged up and Osi missing games. If we lost our QB like Houston we wouldn't have got anywhere but that doesn't mean our injuries weren't bad.

Yeah, Bruce Carter was already injured, but the thought was that he would recover mid season. I see what you mean by it not being the same. You obviously can't count on a guy that was already injured, whereas Amukamara wasn't injured and expected to make an impact. Still though, in my opinion, Amukamara was an unknown quantity that you couldn't really account for. It's not the same thing as losing a for sure starter. I think that losing Claiborne would be more comparable, however I won't feel like we 'lost anything'. Claiborne could end up being a bust and I, for one, am not expecting him to make a huge impact the way Mike Jenkins would if he were to be out for the year. But we may just see things differently.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that your injuries were a walk in the park. I'm saying in the grand scheme of things a lot of teams were beat up last year and it all seemed to balance out. Yes, you were beat up. But you were beat up in a forgiving part of the season as well. And no, the Texans lost Johnson in week 4, Williams week 5, and Schaub in week 10-- all for the season, and not exactly early.

Ntegrase96
08-06-2012, 07:46 PM
Beg to disagree, neck injury the entire season. The other injuries just piled on,
groin, ankle, shoulder, back, and toe. Not to mention his pride took a huge ding,
making him a shell of himself for most of the year. Right or wrong, he said "I suck",
and he did when his head wasn't in it.

That and players like Goff, who were just adequate. What do you get when your
adequate players go down, most times you get way less than that because if you
had anything better than adequate, they would be playing already.

What are you disagreeing with? I said Tuck was banged up.

That's true and is a very valid point. However, 'adequate players' are easier to replace. It works both ways.

Ntegrase96
08-06-2012, 07:48 PM
Update: Brodney Poole, one of the guys to fail the conditioning test was cut, even though he, Felix Jones, and Andre Holmes all passed it a few days later.

SweetZombieJesus
08-06-2012, 10:43 PM
What are you disagreeing with? I said Tuck was banged up.

He was more than banged up; he was questioning whether he even belonged on the field and sounded like he was an inch from going on IR. Heck, he sounded like he was going to quit football. I was watching my favorite player unravel before my eyes.

Then he found the inner strength when coach told him "Just give me everything you've got." And became the leader he was unsuccessfully trying to be since Strahan left.

casvdry
08-07-2012, 12:29 AM
Why, ShakeAndBake, do you care about media perception? Why do you want to be favored this year? Does it even matter? Another thing that annoys me is when people transfer the media praise about a team in to fan praise. None of us Cowboy fans predict greatness this year. I'm not sure where people get that from. We've been humbled enough the past several years, we're not as confident as you think we are. So yeah, don't pretend we thump our chests and make claims like Jerry Jones does (Which is his job, he has to positively market his team to the fans).

Anyway, back to my original point. Why would you want to be praised and predicted to win it all in the off-season? How did that work out for Philly last year? How has it worked out for us in years past? It's a bad omen if anything. Be glad you get to fly under the radar.

casvdry
08-07-2012, 12:49 AM
your going to sit there and say he wasn't stuck behind Witten? Come on man you can't be that blind I know your excited about you team this year but you got problems at safety this year and you did nothing to fix that offensive line they are right the divison this year is between the Giants and the Eagles you guys are the over hyped team that is suppose to win every year but don't. they say you guys got better cause you got carr and claborne, which I think is ridiculous cause he's a rookie and we have a 1st round drafted corner Princ who will be better in his second year but yet you guys gett all the hype trust me giant fans know if there is one weak spot in your secondary then you will have some problems with the pass and carr play along side with flowers in K.C. so before you guys think he is the next Revis let's see how he does by himself and he also faced a lot of weak qb's in the AFC I think you guys are overvaluing Carr. you also said winning the SB means nothing this year it does when you bring back most of the team that won it and that won 6 straight at the end of the season. I know we were 9-7 but you were 8-8 also.

No, he wasn't 'stuck' behind Witten because he did get opportunities and whenever he got those opportunities it usually winded up as a negative play. If he truly was a great player or had the potential to be it would have become apparent in his stay with the Cowboys and it didn't.

Various drops and one drop in particular vs you guys that went straight through his hands and bobbled it out for an INT for your team. Hopefully he can give us some of those. Go Youtube for "Martellus Bennett highlights" see how much you get back.

ShakeandBake
08-07-2012, 12:26 PM
Why, ShakeAndBake, do you care about media perception? Why do you want to be favored this year? Does it even matter? Another thing that annoys me is when people transfer the media praise about a team in to fan praise. None of us Cowboy fans predict greatness this year. I'm not sure where people get that from. We've been humbled enough the past several years, we're not as confident as you think we are. So yeah, don't pretend we thump our chests and make claims like Jerry Jones does (Which is his job, he has to positively market his team to the fans).

Anyway, back to my original point. Why would you want to be praised and predicted to win it all in the off-season? How did that work out for Philly last year? How has it worked out for us in years past? It's a bad omen if anything. Be glad you get to fly under the radar.

Did you even read my post? I didn't say anything about the fans, I was referring to the talking heads like Marcellus Wiley and others who think Dallas is going to win the division this year. My point was that I haven't seen ONE talking head favor us, the defending division and super bowl champions which is like a slap in the face. It's almost as if the media refuses to acknowledge our team, but like you said we play better under the radar. It just boggles my mind why none of these guys think we are going to win the division this season when we should be considered the favorite. These people are self proclaimed experts in their field, so that is why I care about media perception. People who do not follow football closely actually take what these people say at face value, so yes media perception is important.

B-Red22
08-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Because our 2nd RB and two other guys could not pass a conditioning test?

You should know that this is a weed out process. Garrett has weeded out most of the weak.

You think they are trying to weed out Jones?

Ntegrase96
08-07-2012, 01:37 PM
You think they are trying to weed out Jones?

They've been weeding out dead weight lately, so yeah. I don't think Jones gets any kind of contract extention and this is probably another nail in his coffin. They'll keep him around for depth most likely, but he won't be back. Just like Choice was eventually cut.

BuffyBlueII
08-10-2012, 01:44 AM
Yes, the 2011 Giants are mostly in tact. But superbowl champs or not, the Giants were not a great regular season team. They were the same inconsistent team they always have been the last 6 years (save 2008). And I realize a big part of that are injuries… they always are and it probably won’t be any different this year. But let's not pretend that the Giants won the division by an overwhelming distance, and let's not pretend that the other two teams didn't have their injuries as well (also both teams made significant upgrades to their weaknesses, whereas the Giants ingored theirs).

Now lets not pretend that the division was not on the line on the last game of the season and in a do or die game to win the division Dallas Cowboys did not get dominated and beat up by NY Giants. Lets not pretend that just like we are not going to pretend that Jason Garret is a good head coach.

Ntegrase96
08-10-2012, 12:09 PM
Now lets not pretend that the division was not on the line on the last game of the season and in a do or die game to win the division Dallas Cowboys did not get dominated and beat up by NY Giants. Lets not pretend that just like we are not going to pretend that Jason Garret is a good head coach.

Hey buff, how's it going?

Jason Garrett is a great coach. Did he make some errors in his first year as HC? Yeah, but I honestly expected that. But the man puts in the work and knows how to put together a championship caliber team. And best of all, he's not too proud to delegate in areas where he needs help-- hence hiring Callahan to be an offensive game planner during the week and allowing him to focus on his head coach duties.

Hey the Giants kicked our butts in the last game of the season. I don't doubt that. That's one of the things I was speaking of before in how your injuries and our injuries ended up balancing out. You guys weren't healthy to begin with, we weren't healthy to end the season.

But the overall fact remains constant. It took the Giants all 16 games to secure the division... in fact it was a long shot that they would win it just 3 weeks out from the season finale. Why? Because the Giants don't take care of the teams they should beat, and they are very streaky. And this has been very typical of the Giants over the last few years excluding the one great regular season they had in 2008 (before collapsing in December).