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View Full Version : what does everyone say Eli is not a HOFmer cause his stats are not good?



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Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 03:58 PM
His stats are not bad at all his are almost better then other sb winning QB's and has at least 7 more years?

RoanokeFan
08-02-2012, 04:02 PM
Who is everybody?

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 04:07 PM
he's 30. let's relax. no doubt he will be a hall of famer unless something drastic changes in his career

EJ Blue
08-02-2012, 04:07 PM
Is Roethlisberger a HOFer too?

Martyr
08-02-2012, 04:08 PM
He's refering to espn (i think), I was watching First Take & Mike n Mike in the morning both shows debated the topic. For the most part I agree that its to soon to say hes in the HoF.

Buddy333
08-02-2012, 04:16 PM
I don't see how he wouldn't be a HOF with 2 Super Bowl MVP's.

Eli TO Shockey
08-02-2012, 04:24 PM
I don't see how he wouldn't be a HOF with 2 Super Bowl MVP's.


His stats aren't too shabby Either

Gmen2005
08-02-2012, 04:25 PM
Not yet, but if he can stay healthy and put up 20+ tds and 3500 yards for the next 5-6 years, I think he'll get in/

RoanokeFan
08-02-2012, 04:26 PM
Doesn't a player have to retire before he's considered? Don't they take into account his whole body of work? We're not there just yet.

jpmetrick
08-02-2012, 04:32 PM
the problem with eli, and i love him but this is what the AP will look at, is who are the other qb's out there. the whole romo is better arguements only weight was that romo has better stats. better completion %, qbr, and td to int ratio. rodgers, brees, and brady dominate all those, and eli will always be considered less then them in their eyes. my arguement is that eli does enough to win games. rodgers and brady have had to ocercompensate for lack of defense, so their offensive stats are inflated. sean paytons offense is notorious for never getting off the gas, theyd win games by twenty plus points, throwing all over the place like its an afl game. eli and the giants will NEVER do that. they score enough to win the game, and then end it as quickly as possible using the run. thats how coughlin likes it, and frankly, thats how i like it. games are far more exciting when its a one posession, or 10 point game.

giantsfan420
08-02-2012, 04:41 PM
i disagree jp. the voters are the writers, and the writers LOVE a legendary player. Eli could get in just on the merit of the SB 42 win bc of how historically signficant it was and what a story it became. The whole "brother to Peyton, beat the guy who Peyton couldnt TWICE in the SB, demand to play for NY, SB MVP TWICE" legend is an epic really. The writers will remember that. Just like Naimath and how his "guarantee" was such a huge story and so historical. Eli could retire today, and be a lock for the HOF. maybe its flawed, but it is what it is.
when u figure he has a ton of quality play left and years of him in his prime, i mean theres no debate whether he makes the HOF, the debate is whether hes earned it by now or not.

RoanokeFan
08-02-2012, 05:09 PM
i disagree jp. the voters are the writers, and the writers LOVE a legendary player. Eli could get in just on the merit of the SB 42 win bc of how historically signficant it was and what a story it became. The whole "brother to Peyton, beat the guy who Peyton couldnt TWICE in the SB, demand to play for NY, SB MVP TWICE" legend is an epic really. The writers will remember that. Just like Naimath and how his "guarantee" was such a huge story and so historical. Eli could retire today, and be a lock for the HOF. maybe its flawed, but it is what it is.
when u figure he has a ton of quality play left and years of him in his prime, i mean theres no debate whether he makes the HOF, the debate is whether hes earned it by now or not.

I can't see anyone voting a player into the Hall of Fame on what his brother did or didn't do. When Eli is on the ballot for the first time, it will matter who else is being nominated at the same time. It's useless to discuss this until Eli retires. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl but he's in the HOF. I'm not privy to what goes on in the minds of the voters, but I doubt nostalgia factors in.

jax5338
08-02-2012, 05:11 PM
the problem with eli, and i love him but this is what the AP will look at, is who are the other qb's out there. the whole romo is better arguements only weight was that romo has better stats. better completion %, qbr, and td to int ratio. rodgers, brees, and brady dominate all those, and eli will always be considered less then them in their eyes. my arguement is that eli does enough to win games. rodgers and brady have had to ocercompensate for lack of defense, so their offensive stats are inflated. sean paytons offense is notorious for never getting off the gas, theyd win games by twenty plus points, throwing all over the place like its an afl game. eli and the giants will NEVER do that. they score enough to win the game, and then end it as quickly as possible using the run. thats how coughlin likes it, and frankly, thats how i like it. games are far more exciting when its a one posession, or 10 point game.

in this day and age where we all have fantasy teams, people tend to favor guys like romo who are good for putting up numbers but not nearly as good as winning/finishing games when it counts. guys like rodgers, brees, peyton, and brady have all shown they can put up the numbers while also leading the team to titles and coming up big where it matters the most (playoffs, 4th Qtr, etc).

Eli has shown he can lead the giants to championships and is one helluva clutch player but he never has the inflated stats those guys do so he hasnt yet won over a lot people in today's day and age quite yet. i dont really think it's a refelction of eli's talents, as he still puts up solid numbers in a more conservative system than the others. the giants offense is much more reliant on establishing the runand keeping balance than the temas of the other "Elite QBs."

you watch these guys like brees, brady, and rodgers and they come out throwing the ball from the get go and dont quit til the end, even with sizeable leads. the giants under coughlin have simply not been as aggressive and i can't say it is a bad thing with the 2 titles to show for it, but i feel it is refelctive sometimes on the fantasy scoresheet. take it from a guy who has had eli on his team 5 straight seasons along with several other giants, eli and the giants players do not pad the stats as much as other teams when given the opportunities.

once he has a big year with 30-35+ TDs, 4500 yds, and <15 INTs to go along with a solid playoff run (perhaps this year), he will be established in the mind of the stats nerds minds as a HOF lock.

ebick
08-02-2012, 05:17 PM
Eli is going to get us two more rings and probably win at least one more SB MVP in the process. These discussions will all be moot at that point.

YATittle1962
08-02-2012, 05:27 PM
news flash

HOF consideration is not based on stats alone

if it was Lynn Swan, Joe Namath, Gale Sayers, John Riggins, Bob Griese etc etc would not have gold blazers

...and HOF voting has become a load of crap anyway.....so who really cares

Buddy333
08-02-2012, 05:28 PM
In the medias opinion Eli is the 3rd best QB in the NFC East and if he has a good season RG3 will be ranked ahead of him next year. Even most non Giants fans I know do not think he is that good. He was lucky to win the Super Bowl twice. He doesn't scream and yell. He doesn't show boat. He is just plain Eli. Not flashy. Just goes out and and plays the game. Sometimes you can't tell if he won or lost a game because he gives you nothing. When he does voice his opinion he gets laughed at like last year when he said he was a top QB.

Antwuan
08-02-2012, 05:56 PM
Eli Manning is right on the cusp of being a HOF, he still has some work to do.

SweetZombieJesus
08-02-2012, 06:09 PM
I don't see how he wouldn't be a HOF with 2 Super Bowl MVP's.

The other guys on that list (multiple SB MVPs) -- Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Tom Brady

rainierjef
08-02-2012, 06:27 PM
news flash

HOF consideration is not based on stats alone

if it was Lynn Swan, Joe Namath, Gale Sayers, John Riggins, Bob Griese etc etc would not have gold blazers

...and HOF voting has become a load of crap anyway.....so who really cares

this.......+1

jomo
08-02-2012, 08:05 PM
His stats are not bad at all his are almost better then other sb winning QB's and has at least 7 more years?I haven't heared that from anyone. You need to find a better group of experts (or friends) to listen to lol. Go Blue!!

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 08:12 PM
Doesn't a player have to retire before he's considered? Don't they take into account his whole body of work? We're not there just yet. Man you do not listen do you That is my point Eli has good enough stats to get in NOW and he isn't finished everyone at bspn is saying he doesn't belong cause his stats aren't great and he was never that best at his position. To me it's ******ed to think that way when you consider how many good QB's are in the league now but I bet if michael vick wins a SB he's automatically in. that is bull**** I'm sick of Eli getting disrespected just like Parcells is he is the only 2 time sb mvp and 2 time sb winning QB who gets disrespected all the time every time he wins sb it's because of the d or he made a lucky throw or cause tom brady missed a throw give me a break he ****ing won.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 08:23 PM
I haven't heared that from anyone. You need to find a better group of experts (or friends) to listen to lol. Go Blue!!oh yeah moron you want me to find the stats of other QB's in the hof and compare them to eli's I will but since your mr. know it all why don't you tell me have you even looked at eli's stats? bet you haven't, so **** you you god damn troll

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Man you do not listen do you That is my point Eli has good enough stats to get in NOW and he isn't finished everyone at bspn is saying he doesn't belong cause his stats aren't great and he was never that best at his position. To me it's ******ed to think that way when you consider how many good QB's are in the league now but I bet if michael vick wins a SB he's automatically in. that is bull**** I'm sick of Eli getting disrespected just like Parcells is he is the only 2 time sb mvp and 2 time sb winning QB who gets disrespected all the time every time he wins sb it's because of the d or he made a lucky throw or cause tom brady missed a throw give me a break he ****ing won.

lol if you take away the two super bowl mvp's (which aren't statistics), he does not have the stats to get in now

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 08:46 PM
lol if you take away the two super bowl mvp's (which aren't statistics), he does not have the stats to get in now why not joe namath is in there? troy aikmen is in there? and you can't take the two SB away cause those are credentials right? 15 4th quarter TDS. 187 TD'S, 129INTS, 27,000 yards passing, 8-3 playoff record 7 of which are on the road 2 pro bowls threw for over 4,000 yards 3 times 5th all time. yeah he doesn't have the stats to get in right now. Giant fans are funny I tell ya if I was a fan of the packer pats or saints even the colts they would all be pissed if their QB were getting dissed in the manner Eli is but your the typical ******ed Giants fan that would rather agree with the blind media and diss him to GTFOH. The hof is not only about stats I mean jesus what does Eli have to do? Win another SB then you'll be telling me some other reason why he doesn't belong go play fantasy football man cause clearly that is what you do.

Tuckit91
08-02-2012, 08:52 PM
I will just wait till he retires before I think HOF...Gonna enjoy watching him play right now

rainierjef
08-02-2012, 09:10 PM
does anyone know what the criteria to be selected are for QB's?
is it anywhere in writing?
what is the basis of a HOF candidate? what do they need to do in their career on and off the field to be accepted?
if we dont know this why are we arguing probabilities?

jomo
08-02-2012, 09:12 PM
oh yeah moron you want me to find the stats of other QB's in the hof and compare them to eli's I will but since your mr. know it all why don't you tell me have you even looked at eli's stats? bet you haven't, so **** you you god damn trollSay what lol??? Hey RF, did a 70 poster just call me a troll? ROTFL

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 09:22 PM
Say what lol??? Hey RF, did a 70 poster just call me a troll? ROTFL Yes I did and just because I have only 70 doesn't mean a thing I've been a Giants fan since I was born that is 30 years sorry I got a life and a job to go to and can't be on here all the time. All I'm saying is that he doesn't have as bad of stats as you think I said they were good but you combine that with 2 SB wins why not you think if Rodgers win a sb this year people wouldn't already be putting him in the hof I know you would cause you a stats guy I understand. Now you can get your little buddy with 5000 post and your 8000 and bash me cause your to incompetent to address me on your own.

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 09:25 PM
why not joe namath is in there? troy aikmen is in there? and you can't take the two SB away cause those are credentials right? 15 4th quarter TDS. 187 TD'S, 129INTS, 27,000 yards passing, 8-3 playoff record 7 of which are on the road 2 pro bowls threw for over 4,000 yards 3 times 5th all time. yeah he doesn't have the stats to get in right now. Giant fans are funny I tell ya if I was a fan of the packer pats or saints even the colts they would all be pissed if their QB were getting dissed in the manner Eli is but your the typical ******ed Giants fan that would rather agree with the blind media and diss him to GTFOH. The hof is not only about stats I mean jesus what does Eli have to do? Win another SB then you'll be telling me some other reason why he doesn't belong go play fantasy football man cause clearly that is what you do.

lol ok

joe namath got inducted almost 20 years ago. i think everyone will agree, especially in this new passing league, that you cannot compare eli and namath. also, the criteria has changed with this new era of passing. my point was that you were saying his STATS alone would get him into the HOF. I am saying that his CREDENTIALS as you call them are what would get him into the HOF, not stats alone. calm the f down dude. and i dont think me saying he would not get in this very day is dissing him, at all

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 09:26 PM
does anyone know what the criteria to be selected are for QB's?
is it anywhere in writing?
what is the basis of a HOF candidate? what do they need to do in their career on and off the field to be accepted?
if we don't know this why are we arguing probabilities? True then why are you on this post if you don't want to discuss it why are you here? go discuss something else I don't care what you do I made this for people that want to discuss this when you only make post about training camp it can get a little boring. Next time when you make post let me know so I don't have to discuss but I'll go on there anyway and discuss it.

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 09:27 PM
Yes I did and just because I have only 70 doesn't mean a thing I've been a Giants fan since I was born that is 30 years sorry I got a life and a job to go to and can't be on here all the time. All I'm saying is that he doesn't have as bad of stats as you think I said they were good but you combine that with 2 SB wins why not you think if Rodgers win a sb this year people wouldn't already be putting him in the hof I know you would cause you a stats guy I understand. Now you can get your little buddy with 5000 post and your 8000 and bash me cause your to incompetent to address me on your own.

now you are changing your argument. you said he would get in on stats alone. 2 super bowl wins is not stats. if eli keeps putting up numbers similar (even a little lower) than last year for most of the rest of his career, he will be a shoo in. but to say that after arguably having only one or two good/great seasons combined with 2 superbowls is ridiculous.

rainierjef
08-02-2012, 09:28 PM
Say what lol??? Hey RF, did a 70 poster just call me a troll? ROTFL
what if a 1707 poster called you one? :)

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 09:34 PM
lol ok

joe namath got inducted almost 20 years ago. i think everyone will agree, especially in this new passing league, that you cannot compare eli and namath. also, the criteria has changed with this new era of passing. my point was that you were saying his STATS alone would get him into the HOF. I am saying that his CREDENTIALS as you call them are what would get him into the HOF, not stats alone. calm the f down dude. and i dont think me saying he would not get in this very day is dissing him, at all 1st of all I am calm and if I wasn't I wouldn't have to cause you say so. so what if it's a passing league all to my point if you ranked 5th in the league with great qb in a passing your telling me that's not good enough lol out of 32 starting qbs. I t's just fans like you that piss me off cause I make a fair comment about Eli stats you come along and say " we'll if take away 2 sb his stats aren't that good and winning 2 sb win aren't stats?what? you're telling me 2 playoff wins are consider stats?

rainierjef
08-02-2012, 09:36 PM
True then why are you on this post if you don't want to discuss it why are you here? go discuss something else I don't care what you do I made this for people that want to discuss this when you only make post about training camp it can get a little boring. Next time when you make post let me know so I don't have to discuss but I'll go on there anyway and discuss it.
instead of being a bleeding vagina about it why dont you answer my question.
whats the criteria?
whats the standard?
if you can answer that then you can get a good gauge on if eli would or would not be eligable right now.

just sayin

note to mods ^ no filter on that word.

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 09:36 PM
1st of all I am calm and if I wasn't I wouldn't have to cause you say so. so what if it's a passing league all to my point if you ranked 5th in the league with great qb in a passing your telling me that's not good enough lol out of 32 starting qbs. I t's just fans like you that piss me off cause I make a fair comment about Eli stats you come along and say " we'll if take away 2 sb his stats aren't that good and winning 2 sb win aren't stats?what? you're telling me 2 playoff wins are consider stats?

here is a question for you. right now. is phillip rivers a HOF quarterback. if he retired today?

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 09:38 PM
1st of all I am calm and if I wasn't I wouldn't have to cause you say so. so what if it's a passing league all to my point if you ranked 5th in the league with great qb in a passing your telling me that's not good enough lol out of 32 starting qbs. I t's just fans like you that piss me off cause I make a fair comment about Eli stats you come along and say " we'll if take away 2 sb his stats aren't that good and winning 2 sb win aren't stats?what? you're telling me 2 playoff wins are consider stats?

and you used troy aikman, who has better numbers than eli in terms of career, as an example. so you make no sense. so your comment about eli's stats was not fair. maybe in your convoluted (big word) eyes your comment was fair

Harooni
08-02-2012, 09:51 PM
its not that his stats are bad, its that several other qb's have near or better stats. so no 7 qb's are not going to the HOF. its harder than fans realize to get in.

GMENAGAIN
08-02-2012, 09:54 PM
His stats are not bad at all his are almost better then other sb winning QB's and has at least 7 more years?

Ah . . . . the decline of education in America . . . .

Harooni
08-02-2012, 09:58 PM
Ah . . . . the decline of education in America . . . . haha ( i need 10 characters)

jomo
08-02-2012, 09:59 PM
Yes I did and just because I have only 70 doesn't mean a thing I've been a Giants fan since I was born that is 30 years sorry I got a life and a job to go to and can't be on here all the time. All I'm saying is that he doesn't have as bad of stats as you think I said they were good but you combine that with 2 SB wins why not you think if Rodgers win a sb this year people wouldn't already be putting him in the hof I know you would cause you a stats guy I understand. Now you can get your little buddy with 5000 post and your 8000 and bash me cause your to incompetent to address me on your own.The indignity of it all, not sure how I'm gonna get to the week-end. :D Go Blue!

Harooni
08-02-2012, 09:59 PM
SB wins are a team stat, He will need a league MVP to be considered a HOF contender.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:00 PM
instead of being a bleeding vagina about it why dont you answer my question.
whats the criteria?
whats the standard?
if you can answer that then you can get a good gauge on if eli would or would not be eligable right now.

just sayin

note to mods ^ no filter on that word.Man for someone who doesn't want to discuss this you sure wanna know nut anyway here you go

1.SB's Eli has 2 and two sb mvp's
2. regular season mvp's eli has none but that is a popularity contest and there are better qb in the league
3.post season wins and regular season win % Eli has 8 7 on the road his winning % is ,580 which isn't bad considering that he plays in the NFC east
4.Pro bowls Eli has 2 out of 8 years isn't terrible
5.the most important according to most of the people on here stats the guy has over 27,000 yards , 187 TDS and 129 ints the stats aren't Goddy but they are bad either I'd say they are above average he threw for 4,000 in 3 seasons which places him 5th all-time, this season he threw for almost 5,000 which is 6th all-time, he threw for 15 td in the 4th quarter holds the record so with all this how can you say the guy doesn't belong. Happy now you don't have to discuss this anymore now you can go screw yourself.

jomo
08-02-2012, 10:01 PM
what if a 1707 poster called you one? :) That would make me cry. Truth is, I'm not even sure why the OP was upset. I'm not sure I was commenting on something he said unless he started this thread. I was making a straight up shot at the title of the thread. It was at that point I started taking heavy incoming rounds. Being a city kid I fired back though not sure why other than the principle of it. lol

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:03 PM
SB wins are a team stat, He will need a league MVP to be considered a HOF contender. It's a popularity contest also there are alot of great player in the league and Eli isn't that popular a lot people like to bash the guy when you got people that already have Rodgers, Brady, or Brees in their head to be the mvp it's going to be real hard to change minds.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:04 PM
SB wins are a team stat, He will need a league MVP to be considered a HOF contender. True it is a team stat but we don't make it to the playoffs this year without Eli playing the way he did this year

jomo
08-02-2012, 10:09 PM
Yes I did and just because I have only 70 doesn't mean a thing I've been a Giants fan since I was born that is 30 years sorry I got a life and a job to go to and can't be on here all the time. All I'm saying is that he doesn't have as bad of stats as you think I said they were good but you combine that with 2 SB wins why not you think if Rodgers win a sb this year people wouldn't already be putting him in the hof I know you would cause you a stats guy I understand. Now you can get your little buddy with 5000 post and your 8000 and bash me cause your to incompetent to address me on your own.Now let me give you the long response. The reason I raised the issue of post count was not to question your length of tenure as a fan but rather your assessment of me and my motivations. Most people here would recognize that most of my posts are light hearted. My response to your thread, in my opinion was in agreement with you. My light hearted poke at you had to do with the fact that you are worried about, or hang out with or listen to people who question Eli's qualifications. I said you need to hang out with a better grade of analyst or friend. That was meant as a joke since any thinking person knows that Eli is an all but certain Hall of Famer. I am not sure why or how you took that as a criticism and turned the water cannon in my direction. Communication is a funny thing. We could be feeling the same thing about Eli but wind up yapping at each other. Stay Blue my friend!!

gumby74
08-02-2012, 10:14 PM
why not joe namath is in there? troy aikmen is in there? and you can't take the two SB away cause those are credentials right? 15 4th quarter TDS. 187 TD'S, 129INTS, 27,000 yards passing, 8-3 playoff record 7 of which are on the road 2 pro bowls threw for over 4,000 yards 3 times 5th all time. yeah he doesn't have the stats to get in right now. Giant fans are funny I tell ya if I was a fan of the packer pats or saints even the colts they would all be pissed if their QB were getting dissed in the manner Eli is but your the typical ******ed Giants fan that would rather agree with the blind media and diss him to GTFOH. The hof is not only about stats I mean jesus what does Eli have to do? Win another SB then you'll be telling me some other reason why he doesn't belong go play fantasy football man cause clearly that is what you do.

You should stop listening to that rap music. So angry.

rainierjef
08-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Man for someone who doesn't want to discuss this you sure wanna know nut anyway here you go

1.SB's Eli has 2 and two sb mvp's
2. regular season mvp's eli has none but that is a popularity contest and there are better qb in the league
3.post season wins and regular season win % Eli has 8 7 on the road his winning % is ,580 which isn't bad considering that he plays in the NFC east
4.Pro bowls Eli has 2 out of 8 years isn't terrible
5.the most important according to most of the people on here stats the guy has over 27,000 yards , 187 TDS and 129 ints the stats aren't Goddy but they are bad either I'd say they are above average he threw for 4,000 in 3 seasons which places him 5th all-time, this season he threw for almost 5,000 which is 6th all-time, he threw for 15 td in the 4th quarter holds the record so with all this how can you say the guy doesn't belong. Happy now you don't have to discuss this anymore now you can go screw yourself.
You didn't answer my question
instead of posting out of rage relax drink some HOORAY BEER!!! and chill
The question is what are the criteria's for a HOF qb?
Whats the standard for a HOF qb?

gumby74
08-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Ah . . . . the decline of education in America . . . . Scary thing is that he's 30 and I can't make out a single sentence he wrote.

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 10:26 PM
Scary thing is that he's 30 and I can't make out a single sentence he wrote.

and apparently is holding down a job..

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:31 PM
Ah . . . . the decline of education in America . . . . How about you do some research before you talk crap my friend there are 23 QB's in the hall of fame there are only 7 with better stats then eli here are the seven compared to eli
1. Eli 2 Sb's yrd. 27,579 td's 185 int. 129

2.joe montana 4 sb's, yrds40,551 tds 273 int 139

3.john elway 2 sb's yrds 51,475 td's 300 ints 226

4.jim kelly 0 sb's 35,467 tds 237 175ints

5.troy aikmen 3 sb's 32,942 td's 165 141ints

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:34 PM
How about you do some research before you talk crap my friend there are 23 QB's in the hall of fame there are only 7 with better stats then eli here are the seven compared to eli
1. Eli 2 Sb's yrd. 27,579 td's 185 int. 129

2.joe montana 4 sb's, yrds40,551 tds 273 int 139

3.john elway 2 sb's yrds 51,475 td's 300 ints 226

4.jim kelly 0 sb's 35,467 tds 237 175ints

5.troy aikmen 3 sb's 32,942 td's 165 141ints forgot to add warren moon and dan marino and bradshaw that would put eli in 7th if he ended today and some of the other guys don't have sb's so your decline in education statement is off base try again

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:35 PM
now you are changing your argument. you said he would get in on stats alone. 2 super bowl wins is not stats. if eli keeps putting up numbers similar (even a little lower) than last year for most of the rest of his career, he will be a shoo in. but to say that after arguably having only one or two good/great seasons combined with 2 superbowls is ridiculous. no no never said he would get in on stats only check again I said his stats aren't terrible that's all FAIL

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:37 PM
here is a question for you. right now. is phillip rivers a HOF quarterback. if he retired today? no cause he doesn't have two sb's and two sb mvp's if he did then yes which is my arguement the sb's put eli in right now imo

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:41 PM
and you used troy aikman, who has better numbers than eli in terms of career, as an example. so you make no sense. so your comment about eli's stats was not fair. maybe in your convoluted (big word) eyes your comment was fair he also played 4 more season's and only has one more sb win eli has more td's and less ints so try again moron I gave you aikmen stats so your telling me aikmen if he only had 2 sb and 32,000 yards passing with 164 td's and 141 ints you wouldn't put him in?

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:42 PM
its not that his stats are bad, its that several other qb's have near or better stats. so no 7 qb's are not going to the HOF. its harder than fans realize to get in. ok don't sit there and just say things tell me why he doesn't belong?

gumby74
08-02-2012, 10:44 PM
I think Eliscruzzz is my new favorite poster.

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 10:45 PM
no cause he doesn't have two sb's and two sb mvp's if he did then yes which is my arguement the sb's put eli in right now imo

ok i see what you are saying, took a while cause you kept jumping from point to point

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 10:47 PM
he also played 4 more season's and only has one more sb win eli has more td's and less ints so try again moron I gave you aikmen stats so your telling me aikmen if he only had 2 sb and 32,000 yards passing with 164 td's and 141 ints you wouldn't put him in?

lol. you are funny. the whole argument is IF ELI"S CAREER ENDED NOW. so the fact that he played 4 more seasons is so freaking irrelevant its not even funny

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:47 PM
That would make me cry. Truth is, I'm not even sure why the OP was upset. I'm not sure I was commenting on something he said unless he started this thread. I was making a straight up shot at the title of the thread. It was at that point I started taking heavy incoming rounds. Being a city kid I fired back though not sure why other than the principle of it. lol Hey man you started this **** if you want to debate reasonably without saying I need to get new experts without me being able to back up my points with stats then yeah I'm going to be be " firing rounds at you". Just because I don't have as many posts as you doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:50 PM
You should stop listening to that rap music. So angry. haha funny smfh never did like you I use to read your posts with giants I forgot was it was about but your ridiculous so if you would please no start that would be great

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:56 PM
Scary thing is that he's 30 and I can't make out a single sentence he wrote. Dude seriously I don't need this **** from you, you ****ing homo of course your going to try to make good with everyone in here that's they way you roll your a fake *** b.itch I know I was just stating my opinion on here didn't ask for all the backlash for you or anyone else I think Eli would be in the hall of fame if he stop playing today that's mo so if you think Eli isn't that's on you I guess no matter what he does he'll keep getting disrespect even by his so called fans.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 10:57 PM
and apparently is holding down a job.. Yeah I do. Do you? apparently not.

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 11:00 PM
Yeah I do. Do you? apparently not.

lol i'd love to hear your reasoning behind how i apparently don't have a job

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:02 PM
You didn't answer my question
instead of posting out of rage relax drink some HOORAY BEER!!! and chill
The question is what are the criteria's for a HOF qb?
Whats the standard for a HOF qb? you asked me the criteria for the hof for a qb I gave you mine don't know what else you want me to do I'm guessing some of the thing I listed is required that's unless you think not cause your always right, all I said I think if Eli stopped today he should be in. If he stop today then 5 years from then your telling he shouldn't be in? Whatever man done with you. please do not reply to me if you don't understand.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:06 PM
lol. you are funny. the whole argument is IF ELI"S CAREER ENDED NOW. so the fact that he played 4 more seasons is so freaking irrelevant its not even funnyexactly if his career ended now I think he's in if you compare his stats to aikmen's they are close I'm making that point cause if it did end today they are close so why not?

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:09 PM
lol i'd love to hear your reasoning behind how i apparently don't have a job I love to hear the reason why you think I don't?Cause that's what you were getting at when you made that post right?

Roosevelt
08-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Man you do not listen do you That is my point Eli has good enough stats to get in NOW and he isn't finished everyone at bspn is saying he doesn't belong cause his stats aren't great and he was never that best at his position. To me it's ******ed to think that way when you consider how many good QB's are in the league now but I bet if michael vick wins a SB he's automatically in. that is bull**** I'm sick of Eli getting disrespected just like Parcells is he is the only 2 time sb mvp and 2 time sb winning QB who gets disrespected all the time every time he wins sb it's because of the d or he made a lucky throw or cause tom brady missed a throw give me a break he ****ing won.

No disrespect to Eli but Tuck should have been the MVP in the first SB.

Eli was pretty shaky for much of the game until the end, while our defense was phenomenal but gave up that late score.

The truth is Eli has had one great season. I wouldn't put him in the HOF if his career ended today.

ELIte4MVP
08-02-2012, 11:11 PM
I love to hear the reason why you think I don't?Cause that's what you were getting at when you made that post right?

because your grammar and lack of getting a point across are atrocious

Buddy333
08-02-2012, 11:19 PM
Lol. What happened to this thread?

Drez
08-02-2012, 11:20 PM
whats the criteria?
whats the standard?
if you can answer that then you can get a good gauge on if eli would or would not be eligable right now.

just sayin

note to mods ^ no filter on that word.
There is no set criteria or standard. One looks at both the stats and accomplishments of a player's career and it goes from there. Eli's stats after 7 full seasons as a starter compare favorably/similarly to those such as Brady and Brees (players today that most would say are shoo-ins). Add in 2 SB wins and MVPs and I'd say you have a player that if his career ended today should be in the HoF.

Drez
08-02-2012, 11:26 PM
Also, I'd like to add to this conversation that everyone that I heard talk about Eli and the HoF on the radio today said that Eli almost certainly will be in the HoF by the end of his career, the only dissonance was whether if his career ended today if he would be. Peter King, who said he wouldn't vote for Eli today, did say all Eli would have to do is have 4 or 5 good to very good seasons to end his career to make it in (King has a HoF vote).

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:26 PM
because your grammar and lack of getting a point across are atrocious yeah cause inking for a comic book company takes real good grammar and trying to get a point across you didn't even know what I did for a living once again making ridiculous assumptions without knowing facts and as to not being able to get a point across or could it be that you are just to ******ed to understand I gave you reason onto why I think he should be in the hof I gave you #'s which you apparently wanted for me to make my point you on the other hand haven't given me a thing onto why he shouldn't be in the hof ,the I think you don't have a job is your unable to comprehend anything and when you can't make a point you simply shoot to make fun of someone. Get a life bro it's good for your health.

giantsfan420
08-02-2012, 11:27 PM
No disrespect to Eli but Tuck should have been the MVP in the first SB.

Eli was pretty shaky for much of the game until the end, while our defense was phenomenal but gave up that late score.

The truth is Eli has had one great season. I wouldn't put him in the HOF if his career ended today.

umm, no? opened the game with the longest drive in SB history. He moved us into their territory twice that shoulda gone for 10 pts but that int to smith held us to 3. the 3rd quarter eli didnt play great thats true, but then in the 4th we finished the drives that went into NE territory. He def didnt have a shaky game. well deserving mvp. u guys think the voters had it in for tuck or something? i never could quite get the "well tuck really was the mvp" like the voters had a hidden agenda. eli was the mvp, pretty clear too

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:28 PM
No disrespect to Eli but Tuck should have been the MVP in the first SB.

Eli was pretty shaky for much of the game until the end, while our defense was phenomenal but gave up that late score.

The truth is Eli has had one great season. I wouldn't put him in the HOF if his career ended today. That's your opinion and I respect that at least you gave me a reason as to why.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:29 PM
There is no set criteria or standard. One looks at both the stats and accomplishments of a player's career and it goes from there. Eli's stats after 7 full seasons as a starter compare favorably/similarly to those such as Brady and Brees (players today that most would say are shoo-ins). Add in 2 SB wins and MVPs and I'd say you have a player that if his career ended today should be in the HoF. thank you +1

giantsfan420
08-02-2012, 11:29 PM
Dude seriously I don't need this **** from you, you ****ing homo of course your going to try to make good with everyone in here that's they way you roll your a fake *** b.itch I know I was just stating my opinion on here didn't ask for all the backlash for you or anyone else I think Eli would be in the hall of fame if he stop playing today that's mo so if you think Eli isn't that's on you I guess no matter what he does he'll keep getting disrespect even by his so called fans.
dont let him get to you. he def aint worth it. and usually he resorts to instigating when some one has a valid but diff opinion than him. eli def is a lock HOF if he were to retire tonight. 100%.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:30 PM
Also, I'd like to add to this conversation that everyone that I heard talk about Eli and the HoF on the radio today said that Eli almost certainly will be in the HoF by the end of his career, the only dissonance was whether if his career ended today if he would be. Peter King, who said he wouldn't vote for Eli today, did say all Eli would have to do is have 4 or 5 good to very good seasons to end his career to make it in (King has a HoF vote). Yeah I heard that too on radio but we were talking if he stop today a lot of them said he wasn't. That's what I had a problem with

giantsfan420
08-02-2012, 11:34 PM
here is a question for you. right now. is phillip rivers a HOF quarterback. if he retired today?
how is that relevant? rivers aint won **** and he dont have 2 sb mvps

davepc
08-02-2012, 11:35 PM
Elis regular season numbers for 04-07 are mediocre, where he really shines is in the playoffs. That's enough to get him in, but it's not like there isint an argument to be made the other way.

If he wins one mroe SB he's an automatic lock and thats that.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:35 PM
dont let him get to you. he def aint worth it. and usually he resorts to instigating when some one has a valid but diff opinion than him. eli def is a lock HOF if he were to retire tonight. 100%. Thanks man I appreciate it all I was trying to do was make a point they asked for facts I gave them facts then they start saying stupid stuff I mean you probably read them all. With that guy Gumby I think you were the one whos post I was reading and you were giving him valid points on something I think it was the brady throw in the sb and I agreed with everything you said then he posted to you that you r post were to long cause he couldn't make a legitimate debate but thank for noticing it was just mo. I think your the most logical poster in here you always back it up with facts.

Eliscruzzz
08-02-2012, 11:41 PM
umm, no? opened the game with the longest drive in SB history. He moved us into their territory twice that shoulda gone for 10 pts but that int to smith held us to 3. the 3rd quarter eli didnt play great thats true, but then in the 4th we finished the drives that went into NE territory. He def didnt have a shaky game. well deserving mvp. u guys think the voters had it in for tuck or something? i never could quite get the "well tuck really was the mvp" like the voters had a hidden agenda. eli was the mvp, pretty clear too This is what I'm talking about you make valid points it's always someone else play for the reason why we won it's a team game but without eli we don't make the playoffs let alone the sb it's weird how most giant fans don't give him credit either I think it's wrong we should back our guy no matter what he did win us 2 more lombardi trophies I what else does this guy have to do to get some respect?

Drez
08-02-2012, 11:45 PM
SB wins are a team stat, He will need a league MVP to be considered a HOF contender. Peter King, who has a HoF vote, disagrees with you on that. While he doesn't think Eli is a HoFer today, he did say that all Eli would have to do to make it in is finish his career with good to very good stats (read as string together another 5 years or so of stats he's been putting up since the first SB run).

Drez
08-02-2012, 11:47 PM
You should stop listening to that rap music. So angry. Why does it have to be rap music? Why can't it be some punk or grind core?

yatitle
08-02-2012, 11:59 PM
Troy Aikman, Dan Fouts, Bob Griese, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Joe Namath, Roger Staubach all in HOF NEVER won a regular season MVP. Harooni wrong again.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 12:09 AM
troy aikman, dan fouts, bob griese, jim kelly, warren moon, joe namath, roger staubach all in hof never won a regular season mvp. Harooni wrong again.lmfao ++++++++++++1

primetime
08-03-2012, 12:11 AM
When it's all said and done I believe Eli will call Canton home.

Roosevelt
08-03-2012, 12:19 AM
duplicate post please delete

Roosevelt
08-03-2012, 12:27 AM
umm, no? opened the game with the longest drive in SB history. He moved us into their territory twice that shoulda gone for 10 pts but that int to smith held us to 3. the 3rd quarter eli didnt play great thats true, but then in the 4th we finished the drives that went into NE territory. He def didnt have a shaky game. well deserving mvp. u guys think the voters had it in for tuck or something? i never could quite get the "well tuck really was the mvp" like the voters had a hidden agenda. eli was the mvp, pretty clear too

We have to agree to disagree on this. But I'd bet good money Eli wouldn't disagree with me.

If you listen to Strahan's narration on the SB DVD you will hear his repeated concerns over Eli's play in that game. So let's remember that while you and I are fans, his perspective is one of a seasoned vet.

The truth is Eli had many questionable passes and/or decisions during that game. But I want to stress that I am knocking him for it. I'm only stating what I believe is the truth about that game. Bottom line is he came through when it counted most so I am not trying to take anything away from him.

Tuck had an unbelievable game against an incredible offense. It's hard to argue that.

Drez
08-03-2012, 12:49 AM
But I want to stress that I am knocking him for it. Do you mean "not knocking him for it," here? While I disagree with you a little on this, I don't want to see your post get taken out of its intended context.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 01:16 AM
We have to agree to disagree on this. But I'd bet good money Eli wouldn't disagree with me.

If you listen to Strahan's narration on the SB DVD you will hear his repeated concerns over Eli's play in that game. So let's remember that while you and I are fans, his perspective is one of a seasoned vet.

The truth is Eli had many questionable passes and/or decisions during that game. But I want to stress that I am knocking him for it. I'm only stating what I believe is the truth about that game. Bottom line is he came through when it counted most so I am not trying to take anything away from him.

Tuck had an unbelievable game against an incredible offense. It's hard to argue that.
u realize that NE had a top 3 defense that year right? and that they were undefeated right? i have never heard strahan say anything like that about elis SB performance...seemed to me that he was damn confident that eli would lead the comeback when he was going 17-14 is the final...

Harooni
08-03-2012, 05:05 AM
Peter King, who has a HoF vote, disagrees with you on that. While he doesn't think Eli is a HoFer today, he did say that all Eli would have to do to make it in is finish his career with good to very good stats (read as string together another 5 years or so of stats he's been putting up since the first SB run). no doubt 5 years of top level play would make him a contender i think , but league mvp would seal it imo.

jakegibbs
08-03-2012, 08:09 AM
no doubt 5 years of top level play would make him a contender i think , but league mvp would seal it imo.
In most Giant fans minds Eli got the league mvp last season. Just look at the records he broke last year Mr. Clutch, including Johnny U's. Man when you break Johnny U's long time record your already walking through the HOF gates right? When Phil Sims speaks people better.listen.

giantyankee1976
08-03-2012, 08:45 AM
Here's my take on the Eli/ Hall of Fame issue:

Let this man complete his Career and then in looking back at his overall body of work, decide his HoF worthiness.

Not to be a homer but, the man won 2 SBs and while not as popular, flashy, or attractive as a Drew Brees, you get the feeling that he has to win a 3rd SB to be a shoo-in.

3 Super Bowls ???

really ?

that's ridiculous !

Redeyejedi
08-03-2012, 09:36 AM
Im getting sick of the Giants got lucky talk from Pats and Jets fans. On my way to work some caller was totally trying to minimize the Giants wins. Tyree catch was lucky and Brady missed the throw the Giants dont win. I really wanted to punch the guy in the face. Those are the plays that are made or arent made that win games. I love how Evan brought up the Spygate thing to the caller shut him up real fast. Then he started ragging on Elis numbers. Its not how many plays u make its when u make them. So what if u beat the Bills 49-21 and u have 6 Touchdown passes its still just one win.I think Pat fans are just upset that the Giants took a bite out their coach and QB's legacy. Jet fans are just as ridiculous. Giants are lucky but not the jets. Jets in their first AFC Championship run had enormous amount of Luck. The Lions kicker got hurt and Suh had to kick an extra point which he missed. Jets won in OT. The Colts decide they dont want to go undefeated and pull Manning in a game they are winning. Nate Kaeding misses 3 FG's in the WIldcard game. Like 5 teams lost week 16 for the Jets

GMENAGAIN
08-03-2012, 09:52 AM
Im getting sick of the Giants got lucky talk from Pats and Jets fans. On my way to work some caller was totally trying to minimize the Giants wins. Tyree catch was lucky and Brady missed the throw the Giants dont win. I really wanted to punch the guy in the face. Those are the plays that are made or arent made that win games. I love how Evan brought up the Spygate thing to the caller shut him up real fast. Then he started ragging on Elis numbers. Its not how many plays u make its when u make them. So what if u beat the Bills 49-21 and u have 6 Touchdown passes its still just one win.I think Pat fans are just upset that the Giants took a bite out their coach and QB's legacy. Jet fans are just as ridiculous. Giants are lucky but not the jets. Jets in their first AFC Championship run had enormous amount of Luck. The Lions kicker got hurt and Suh had to kick an extra point which he missed. Jets won in OT. The Colts decide they dont want to go undefeated and pull Manning in a game they are winning. Nate Kaeding misses 3 FG's in the WIldcard game. Like 5 teams lost week 16 for the Jets

And the Pats fans forget about the Tuck rule game against Oakland . . . .

Every championship run involves a little bit of luck. To say that the Giants' championships involved more luck than others is just silly . . . .

gumby74
08-03-2012, 09:57 AM
Lol. What happened to this thread? good things. it just got interesting.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 10:00 AM
All I can say is wow!....I just read every post in this discussion and some of it is pretty amazing....some of it just funny...Do I believe Eli will be in the hall of fame? yes I do......Do I believe he is a shoe in RIGHT NOW?I would say a lot of it has to do with who else is eligible at the same time......I use Chris Carter as an example of what I mean......YES in football that makes a huge difference....they can only elect a certain number per year(sorry folks off top of my head I do not recall the number)


AS a side note I find it very funny how emotional and how much crap gets slung between posters when the subject is ELI ......Just seems like certain posters take it very personally when everyone does not agree with everything they say and get very grumpy about it.....and now there is another one joining that group.....this is not me taking personal shots ....just an observation ...also guaranteed to go 10 pages when it is an Eli thread

again WOW!

gumby74
08-03-2012, 10:07 AM
dont let him get to you. he def aint worth it. and usually he resorts to instigating when some one has a valid but diff opinion than him. eli def is a lock HOF if he were to retire tonight. 100%.

How do in instigate people when they have different opinions? There have been plenty of posters that I've given props to, despite our differences. The problem is that you can't hold a coherent thought for more than 5 seconds. Funny thing is that as soon as I read Eliscruzz's posts, i thought immediately of you. He's like a younger, an even more immature version of you.

gumby74
08-03-2012, 10:11 AM
Why does it have to be rap music? Why can't it be some punk or grind core?

No idea what music is like these days, but back in the day with NWA and Public Enemy, they were angry mofos. The "Rappers" these days are more pop than anything. The only punk group i listened to were the Ramones.

Buddy333
08-03-2012, 10:50 AM
There was a lot of luck in the AFC Championship game too.

rebelfan1966
08-03-2012, 11:08 AM
Eli has been an enigma of sorts since draft day. He did not receive a lot of respect from fans, peers, sports shows, ect, until he won his first SB. The next season was going well until Plaxico shot himself, then it took a while for the Gmen to right the ship. During this time, Eli's gained respect from the SB started to deminish, and people started to doubt his ability again. I still recall him being the source of everyones jokes after he said he felt he was Elite. Now with two SBMVPs under his belt, people are just now considering him in the top five QBs..... but there is always a "but" when talking about Eli for whatever reason. For example, It's always "Eli played well BUT.....". I really think Eli needs another SB under his belt to be a lock for the HOF. I still think there are enough doubters and fence riders out there that still have not bought into Eli 100%.

Roosevelt
08-03-2012, 11:33 AM
Do you mean "not knocking him for it," here? While I disagree with you a little on this, I don't want to see your post get taken out of its intended context.

Yes thank you!

Roosevelt
08-03-2012, 11:49 AM
u realize that NE had a top 3 defense that year right? and that they were undefeated right? i have never heard strahan say anything like that about elis SB performance...seemed to me that he was damn confident that eli would lead the comeback when he was going 17-14 is the final...

I'm not taking anything away from anyone that day only to say that IMO Tuck was our MVP that day. Unlike our 38-35 game a few weeks earlier, this one was a defensive battle with late game heroics.

But if you listen to Strahan, you can sense his concern over Eli and that he was hoping Eli wouldn't lose the game for them. I believe that's a fair and an absolutely rational reaction to having a young QB in there with a history of up and down play up to that point.

I don't think anyone would argue that Eli is a far better QB now than he was during that game. Eli has total command of this team now, and the sky is the limit.

sskeller
08-03-2012, 11:57 AM
I think a lot of the argument against Eli is that he's only had a couple outstanding seasons. Yet nobody argues about Joe Namath being in the Superbowl despite a career losing record, a 50% career completion percentage (I know it as a different era), and throwing more interceptions than TDs. Seems like Namath got in the Hall on a couple outstanding seasons and personality. Don't see how Eli isn't as worthy of the hall or more.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 11:59 AM
I'm not taking anything away from anyone that day only to say that IMO Tuck was our MVP that day. Unlike our 38-35 game a few weeks earlier, this one was a defensive battle with late game heroics.

But if you listen to Strahan, you can sense his concern over Eli and that he was hoping Eli wouldn't lose the game for them. I believe that's a fair and an absolutely rational reaction to having a young QB in there with a history of up and down play up to that point.

I don't think anyone would argue that Eli is a far better QB now than he was during that game. Eli has total command of this team now, and the sky is the limit.
dont get me wrong, i agree with most of what ur saying. its just imo u r making up that strahan was not confident in eli and that eli had a shaky game. those two premises are dead wrong. besides that i agree, the d player brilliantly, tuck played great. it was a defensive matchup. but NE had the better D and Eli outplayed Brady, those r just the facts. The SB MVP voters dont have hidden agendas, they vote for the guy who was the MVP. and it was eli in both SBs

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 12:01 PM
How do in instigate people when they have different opinions? There have been plenty of posters that I've given props to, despite our differences. The problem is that you can't hold a coherent thought for more than 5 seconds. Funny thing is that as soon as I read Eliscruzz's posts, i thought immediately of you. He's like a younger, an even more immature version of you.

thank u for proving my point.

gumby74
08-03-2012, 12:39 PM
thank u for proving my point. Hey now, I only give back what I receive.

Quick question for you though. If Eli got traded tomorrow, would you be as big a Giant fan? Or, would you become a fan of the team he gets traded to. The only reason why I ask is because only yourself and a handful of others feel obligated to justify Eli and how he stands in relation to everyone else constantly. Most of us are just happy that we have a franchise QB that is finally coming into his own. Heck we won the SB twice in 4 years.

But at first, it was trying to justify why Eli was better than Rivers/Ben. Then it was if he was the best in the league. Now it's if he's HoF worthy. What's next, if he's the best that's ever played?

You're a huge Eli fan. That's awesome, but at some point you have to wonder how far a lot of this Eli obsessive behavior stretches.

IMO, i'm guessing you're true blue first and foremost - unlike a few on here. But, I had to raise the question. If a person chooses the player first, then he/she is no more a fan of the Giants than Tebow followers are of the Jets.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 12:45 PM
oh yeah moron you want me to find the stats of other QB's in the hof and compare them to eli's I will but since your mr. know it all why don't you tell me have you even looked at eli's stats? bet you haven't, so **** you you god damn troll

Dude.....calm the **** down. MOST of these guys you're calling trolls and morons are Eli supporters and long time members of this board. You need a time out.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 12:47 PM
Hey now, I only give back what I receive.

Quick question for you though. If Eli got traded tomorrow, would you be as big a Giant fan? Or, would you become a fan of the team he gets traded to. The only reason why I ask is because only yourself and a handful of others feel obligated to justify Eli and how he stands in relation to everyone else constantly. Most of us are just happy that we have a franchise QB that is finally coming into his own. Heck we won the SB twice in 4 years.

But at first, it was trying to justify why Eli was better than Rivers/Ben. Then it was if he was the best in the league. Now it's if he's HoF worthy. What's next, if he's the best that's ever played?

You're a huge Eli fan. That's awesome, but at some point you have to wonder how far a lot of this Eli obsessive behavior stretches.

IMO, i'm guessing you're true blue first and foremost - unlike a few on here. But, I had to raise the question. If a person chooses the player first, then he/she is no more a fan of the Giants than Tebow followers are of the Jets.

You make an interesting point....in this case with 420 and Eli...but in general ,in the age of free agency in all sports it becomes difficult to have favorite players.....Because next year they may be on different teams....then do you root for the player or the team......It has been a very long time since I have truly rooted for a single player..because I am devoted to my teams.....In fact the last player I would call my favorite was LT....

FBomb
08-03-2012, 01:07 PM
Dude seriously I don't need this **** from you, you ****ing homo of course your going to try to make good with everyone in here that's they way you roll your a fake *** b.itch I know I was just stating my opinion on here didn't ask for all the backlash for you or anyone else I think Eli would be in the hall of fame if he stop playing today that's mo so if you think Eli isn't that's on you I guess no matter what he does he'll keep getting disrespect even by his so called fans.

Dude seriously......you are not doing yourself any favors by behaving like this. It makes you look stupid and your point gets completely lost in the fray. Not to mention that the mods really frown upon this kind of attack on another poster and will remove you from the board for it.

Gumby and I disagree on nearly EVERY point but our conversations have NEVER escalated like this. It's simply childish.

Just some friendly advice.....grow up or don't bother giving your opinion on a message board.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 01:27 PM
Dude seriously......you are not doing yourself any favors by behaving like this. It makes you look stupid and your point gets completely lost in the fray. Not to mention that the mods really frown upon this kind of attack on another poster and will remove you from the board for it.

Gumby and I disagree on nearly EVERY point but our conversations have NEVER escalated like this. It's simply childish.

Just some friendly advice.....grow up or don't bother giving your opinion on a message board.


I was thinking the same thing f bomb...but wasn't sure how to phrase it without coming across as being argumentative....if he is not careful he will get banned if he has not already.....elicruzz take his advice...you need to stop with the name calling it will get you banned very quickly.....everyone on this board has a different opinion which they are all entitled to....name calling does not back your opinion in a very helpful way.

State your opinion... back it the best you can but no matter how much you are convinced your opinion is the right one.....there is no way you will convince everyone on this board you are right.....either accept that or your in for some long moments on these boards

gumby74
08-03-2012, 02:08 PM
You make an interesting point....in this case with 420 and Eli...but in general ,in the age of free agency in all sports it becomes difficult to have favorite players.....Because next year they may be on different teams....then do you root for the player or the team......It has been a very long time since I have truly rooted for a single player..because I am devoted to my teams.....In fact the last player I would call my favorite was LT....

Yeah definitely. In my book, people who are any less fans of a team because a certain player is no longer with them, they aren't a fan. They're a follower.

Drez
08-03-2012, 02:39 PM
no doubt 5 years of top level play would make him a contender i think , but league mvp would seal it imo. He doesn't even need top level play. He just needs good play. And that's from someone who has a vote.

Roosevelt
08-03-2012, 02:43 PM
dont get me wrong, i agree with most of what ur saying. its just imo u r making up that strahan was not confident in eli and that eli had a shaky game. those two premises are dead wrong. besides that i agree, the d player brilliantly, tuck played great. it was a defensive matchup. but NE had the better D and Eli outplayed Brady, those r just the facts. The SB MVP voters dont have hidden agendas, they vote for the guy who was the MVP. and it was eli in both SBs


It's not about an agenda, it's about not having a clear cut easy decision. QB's win the MVP more the 50% of the time. Take Peyton Manning's MVP as an example. That certainly wasn't his finest moment on a performance level.

As for Stray, yu would have to listen to his commentary that's added as a bonus feature to one of the DVD's to understand my comments.

Morehead State
08-03-2012, 02:57 PM
dont get me wrong, i agree with most of what ur saying. its just imo u r making up that strahan was not confident in eli and that eli had a shaky game. those two premises are dead wrong. besides that i agree, the d player brilliantly, tuck played great. it was a defensive matchup. but NE had the better D and Eli outplayed Brady, those r just the facts. The SB MVP voters dont have hidden agendas, they vote for the guy who was the MVP. and it was eli in both SBs
Thats kind of a silly statement about the MVP voters. They vote for the winning QB unless there is a clear choice with another player. its just what they do. They like things easy. The SB MVP vote is NOT any indication of the greatness of the player since the criteria really isn't who was the best player on the field.
I thought Tuck definately deserved it but I understand that they voted for the winning QB since our defense was very much a team effort in that game. Point is that Eli played well in the end but his overall performance was not exceptional. I would characterize it as 'good", and thats about it. Great drive at the end though.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:00 PM
All I can say is wow!....I just read every post in this discussion and some of it is pretty amazing....some of it just funny...Do I believe Eli will be in the hall of fame? yes I do......Do I believe he is a shoe in RIGHT NOW?I would say a lot of it has to do with who else is eligible at the same time......I use Chris Carter as an example of what I mean......YES in football that makes a huge difference....they can only elect a certain number per year(sorry folks off top of my head I do not recall the number)


AS a side note I find it very funny how emotional and how much crap gets slung between posters when the subject is ELI ......Just seems like certain posters take it very personally when everyone does not agree with everything they say and get very grumpy about it.....and now there is another one joining that group.....this is not me taking personal shots ....just an observation ...also guaranteed to go 10 pages when it is an Eli thread

again WOW! I know you're talking about me and I don't really care if someone tries to discredit your opinion by saying you don't have the right experts or you need to change friends cause they give you crap information and all you do is back up your opinion's with facts they yes I guess I am emotional, not the first and probably not the last people can have a different opinion but back it up with facts don't resort to name calling cause if you go there I will too.

ny06
08-03-2012, 03:02 PM
If you want to have a thread that gets a lot of attention? Start an Eli Manning thread. It never fails...

http://i47.tinypic.com/vdflgo.png

Morehead State
08-03-2012, 03:03 PM
He doesn't even need top level play. He just needs good play. And that's from someone who has a vote.
To say that all is required to get into the Hall is "good play" during your prime is an insult to every player ever incucted into the Hall Of Fame.
If all any player can muster is "good play" in his prime years, he isn't a Hall of Famer.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:07 PM
How do in instigate people when they have different opinions? There have been plenty of posters that I've given props to, despite our differences. The problem is that you can't hold a coherent thought for more than 5 seconds. Funny thing is that as soon as I read Eliscruzz's posts, i thought immediately of you. He's like a younger, an even more immature version of you. There you go again this sports moron if you come on here and don't back up your opinions with facts then yeah I'm going to call you out so deal with or don't visit my post scumbag see I can name call too. The immature one would be you your like the little kid in the school yard that doesn't have his own way of doing thing and tries to join the cool kids by joining in on what everybody else thinks like I said before man I don't care for you you make no valid points ever. Keep trying to get into your friends with 10,000 posts to show you belong cause you don't have a mind of your own.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:18 PM
There you go again this sports moron if you come on here and don't back up your opinions with facts then yeah I'm going to call you out so deal with or don't visit my post scumbag see I can name call too. The immature one would be you your like the little kid in the school yard that doesn't have his own way of doing thing and tries to join the cool kids by joining in on what everybody else thinks like I said before man I don't care for you you make no valid points ever. Keep trying to get into your friends with 10,000 posts to show you belong cause you don't have a mind of your own.

Some of the people you are arguing with are on your side...ie..jomo...but because you are so hell bent on making a fool of yourself you completely misread what he was saying...but whatever. I tried steering you in the right direction but you are still choosing to act like a child so I am done trying.

Good luck with your user account here....I don't expect it to be around very much longer. I'm surprised you calling someone a "homo" hasn't gotten you removed already.

Grow up

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Dude.....calm the **** down. MOST of these guys you're calling trolls and morons are Eli supporters and long time members of this board. You need a time out. stfu I don't care what you think I can do whatever and say what ever I want to if you go back they stared this name calling **** just because I have 100 posts doesn't me I can't say anything seriously why am I even talking to DIRTBAG they are being trolls tell me where they are making points as to what I think about Eli being in the hof they are not they would just tell me to wait until his career is over and that is not the post the question is if his career ended today would he be in give me a reason as to why you guys think he's not in that's all, so go **** yourself with your 22,709 post scumbag. See I can say or call someone whatever I want.

Drez
08-03-2012, 03:19 PM
To say that all is required to get into the Hall is "good play" during your prime is an insult to every player ever incucted into the Hall Of Fame.
If all any player can muster is "good play" in his prime years, he isn't a Hall of Famer. Peter King, who has a HoF vote, said all Eli needs to do to make it into the Hall is to finish his career with good to very good stats. He's filled out the rest of his resume for entry, and now it's up to essentially padding his stats a bit. Pretty much, all he needs to do is not have any really bad seasons.

And again, that's not my opinion, but that of a Hall of Fame voter.

Drez
08-03-2012, 03:20 PM
stfu I don't care what you think I can do whatever and say what ever I want to if you go back they stared this name calling **** just because I have 100 posts doesn't me I can't say anything seriously why am I even talking to DIRTBAG they are being trolls tell me where they are making points as to what I think about Eli being in the hof they are not they would just tell me to wait until his career is over and that is not the post the question is if his career ended today would he be in give me a reason that's so go **** yourself with your 22,709 post scumbag. See I can say or call someone whatever I want.Actually, you can't. Free speech doesn't exist here as this is the private domain of the New York Giants. You agreed to certain rules when creating your account and one of them was to not engage in the type of behavior in which you are engaging.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:21 PM
stfu I don't care what you think I can do whatever and say what ever I want to if you go back they stared this name calling **** just because I have 100 posts doesn't me I can't say anything seriously why am I even talking to DIRTBAG they are being trolls tell me where they are making points as to what I think about Eli being in the hof they are not they would just tell me to wait until his career is over and that is not the post the question is if his career ended today would he be in give me a reason that's so go **** yourself with your 22,709 post scumbag. See I can say or call someone whatever I want.

lol.......priceless.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:23 PM
Actually, you can't. Free speech doesn't exist here as this is the private domain of the New York Giants. You agreed to certain rules when creating your account and one of them was to not engage in the type of behavior in which you are engaging.

I've tried logic with him already, It apparently isn't part of his vocabulary.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:24 PM
Dude seriously......you are not doing yourself any favors by behaving like this. It makes you look stupid and your point gets completely lost in the fray. Not to mention that the mods really frown upon this kind of attack on another poster and will remove you from the board for it.

Gumby and I disagree on nearly EVERY point but our conversations have NEVER escalated like this. It's simply childish.

Just some friendly advice.....grow up or don't bother giving your opinion on a message board. I don't care I didn't ask for all your crap man get off my ****ing back they asked for facts I gave them facts they call me and my friends names I call them name what kind of messageboards kicks someone off because they are sticking up for their opinions and so be it if I get kick out then I get kick out I it's not the end of the world there are plenty of other giant messageboards that are not hung on how many posts someone has so they are right give a break FBOMB.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 03:25 PM
lol.......priceless.

I am speechless...you can take a horse and other parts of it's anatomy to water but you can't make him drink

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:30 PM
I don't care I didn't ask for all your crap man get off my ****ing back they asked for facts I gave them facts they call me and my friends names I call them name what kind of messageboards kicks someone off because they are sticking up for their opinions and so be it if I get kick out then I get kick out I it's not the end of the world there are plenty of other giant messageboards that are not hung on how many posts someone has so they are right give a break FBOMB.

The kind that has specific rules about that kind of behavior. So far, the only one I've seen calling anyone names is you.....and childishly calling someone names has very little to do with sticking up for your own opinion.....it just makes you look weak and stupid....nothing more. You've totally misread MOST of the posts that you're complaining about........but far be it from me to stop you from making a fool of yourself. You have already told me to butt out so have at it.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:32 PM
Yeah definitely. In my book, people who are any less fans of a team because a certain player is no longer with them, they aren't a fan. They're a follower. That's funny coming from someone that is following everyone else on this board your a joke man like I said before a fan of the team would realize Eli accomplishments and give him the credit he deserves and not come up with reason as to why it wasn't his play that we won. I agree we won cause of our d ,our o-line-. our wr's ,our te's. but we also won cause of our QB but when your talking about individual accomplishments like the hof you point out Eli specifically cause he is one of the leaders of the TEAM.

GMENAGAIN
08-03-2012, 03:32 PM
stfu I don't care what you think I can do whatever and say what ever I want to if you go back they stared this name calling **** just because I have 100 posts doesn't me I can't say anything seriously why am I even talking to DIRTBAG they are being trolls tell me where they are making points as to what I think about Eli being in the hof they are not they would just tell me to wait until his career is over and that is not the post the question is if his career ended today would he be in give me a reason that's so go **** yourself with your 22,709 post scumbag. See I can say or call someone whatever I want.

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son . . . . .

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:33 PM
I don't care I didn't ask for all your crap man get off my ****ing back they asked for facts I gave them facts they call me and my friends names I call them name what kind of messageboards kicks someone off because they are sticking up for their opinions and so be it if I get kick out then I get kick out I it's not the end of the world there are plenty of other giant messageboards that are not hung on how many posts someone has so they are right give a break FBOMB.

btw.....ever hear of a "cohesive paragraph"? How about punctuation?

fansince69
08-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son . . . . .

LMAO....perfect

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son . . . . .

lol....."Zero point zero"

GMENAGAIN
08-03-2012, 03:34 PM
btw.....ever hear of a "cohesive paragraph"? How about punctuation?
I would be eternally grateful if someone would bait this guy into an argument with GWAT . . . . .

fansince69
08-03-2012, 03:37 PM
I would be eternally grateful if someone would bait this guy into an argument with GWAT . . . . .

GWAT thought we should run a 5 receiver set all the time that would build eli's numbers and then he would be a hall of famer...Im not sure they would argue...but I love the idea

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:39 PM
GWAT thought we should run a 5 receiver set all the time that would build eli's numbers and then he would be a hall of famer...Im not sure they would argue...but I love the idea

Well, considering our new friend here not only has problems with getting his point across but also with comprehension of what others are saying....I would think that debate very well COULD happen

fansince69
08-03-2012, 03:41 PM
Well, considering our new friend here not only has problems with getting his point across but also with comprehension of what others are saying....I would think that debate very well COULD happen

Perhaps...maybe he will figure out that we are all Giants fans...but it may be too late

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:44 PM
Actually, you can't. Free speech doesn't exist here as this is the private domain of the New York Giants. You agreed to certain rules when creating your account and one of them was to not engage in the type of behavior in which you are engaging.That's true but when other people start the name calling why should I stop just go back to jomo and gmenagain's comments that's how it all started and then people saw my 80 post and just assumed I started being a giants fan I not talking about you cause you have made very good point on this subject and It has just started on this post with some people in here it's pretty much whenever I start a post the same people try to put it down and tell just talk about training camp I thought I would start a post about something different that's all.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:44 PM
Perhaps...maybe he will figure out that we are all Giants fans...but it may be too late

lol....as if.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:45 PM
lol.......priceless.Thank you I thought you were done with me?

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:48 PM
I've tried logic with him already, It apparently isn't part of his vocabulary. Thanks for trying man sorry I not a grown up like you your so mature and responsible there are you happy now mr. 22,000 posts won I don't have the right to stat an opinion I should just shut up your right I'm wrong.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:50 PM
That's true but when other people start the name calling why should I stop just go back to jomo and gmenagain's comments that's how it all started and then people saw my 80 post and just assumed I started being a giants fan I not talking about you cause you have made very good point on this subject and It has just started on this post with some people in here it's pretty much whenever I start a post the same people try to put it down and tell just talk about training camp I thought I would start a post about something different that's all.

Let's see if I can dumb this down for you......A. They actually DIDN'T start with the name calling....you did. You called Jomo a troll which by defenition means "pretending to be a fan".....He thought it was funny that someone who has been here a short time would call someone who has been here a long time a troll...simple as that. he just pointed it out. B..Jomo was on your side from the begining bascially saying that the people who are telling you that Eli doesn't have the stats to be a hall of famer are wrong. You took it the wrong way and attacked him and that has lead to where we are now. I tried to help you but you turned against me too....which is fine......nothing funnier than watching someone continue to hang themselves with thier own rope.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:51 PM
Thanks for trying man sorry I not a grown up like you your so mature and responsible there are you happy now mr. 22,000 posts won I don't have the right to stat an opinion I should just shut up your right I'm wrong.

You're a moron and you continue proving that fact wih every post.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 03:52 PM
That's true but when other people start the name calling why should I stop just go back to jomo and gmenagain's comments that's how it all started and then people saw my 80 post and just assumed I started being a giants fan I not talking about you cause you have made very good point on this subject and It has just started on this post with some people in here it's pretty much whenever I start a post the same people try to put it down and tell just talk about training camp I thought I would start a post about something different that's all.

First I am going to preface this by saying...I am just trying to explain some things to you...Jomo did not call you names...all he did was make a joke....you immediately took offense.......F bomb was honestly trying to help you with some friendly advice ..and for future posts....anytime you make a thread about Eli it will get heated...it will go on forever ....you can not take what is said personally....believe it or not we all do root for the same team....most of the people you are calling names are well respected Giant fans and you are the new kid on the block....It doesn't mean you are not a fan...but it is like any new kid....there is some adjustment.....but starting fights is not the way to win friends and influence people

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 03:53 PM
I am speechless...you can take a horse and other parts of it's anatomy to water but you can't make him drink funny part is you guys act like you never call anybody names ever like I said before if you don't like it why keep coming back to this thread I tried having a reasonable debate on the subject I really wanted to discus was " if Eli ended his career today would he be a hof and why no one and the media gives this guy any credit" I wish it didn't turn out like this but it has.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 03:53 PM
Thank you I thought you were done with me?

No...I said I was done trying to HELP you....but I'm not surprised that you misread it. It seems to be your MO. Now I'm just making fun of you.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:00 PM
The kind that has specific rules about that kind of behavior. So far, the only one I've seen calling anyone names is you.....and childishly calling someone names has very little to do with sticking up for your own opinion.....it just makes you look weak and stupid....nothing more. You've totally misread MOST of the posts that you're complaining about........but far be it from me to stop you from making a fool of yourself. You have already told me to butt out so have at it. did I really some ask me to give them my criteria for the hof I gave it to them, they said eli stats were not great and I agreed but I said the 2 sbs puts him in, I made a comment on how eli's stats were better then most qbs in the hof then someone calls me uneducated cause I made that statement then I gave them facts as to like there are 23 qbs in the hof and only seven have better stats then it got out of control from there not my fault if they don't have a legitimate arguement as to why he shouldn't be in the hof maybe you should go back and read from the beginning

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 04:01 PM
To say that all is required to get into the Hall is "good play" during your prime is an insult to every player ever incucted into the Hall Of Fame.
If all any player can muster is "good play" in his prime years, he isn't a Hall of Famer.
well guess we'll just have to take the people who actually vote for their word.
the HOF voters are sports writers. And sports writers love the legendary tales, bc it gives them so much to write about. The SB 42 game was maybe one of the most heavily focused on SB's of the past generation. The comeback, the catch to tyree.
Being Peytons brother, demanding a trade to NY...all these things will weigh even heavier on sports writers minds bc they actually made their living writing about it. they love epics that play out in the way elis career has. With the 2nd SB, im positive that enough of the voters will vote Eli in, as is. BC it was a "rematch" with NE, and bc it was his 2nd SB MVP, i'm sure they are content with the legend that is eli.

now, is that fair? bc i agree with MS and Harooni for the most part about having to have a great career. Has ELi's, up to this point, been "great" enough? Again, its the voters we're talking about here. Now if it was merely his numbers, no I dont think he'd be a lock although he could perhaps get in bc he has acheived things like 6 other qbs have done and the Unitas record. How does wins factor into their voting? If numbers AND success (not SB) is required, then i think its fair to say Eli could make it in but it is no certainty.

But those SB MVPS and just his whole storied career, I personally believe, Yes it is enough right now. I dont vote, and there wont be a vote on it until Eli's career is over. Now from the voters I have heard who are on the fence about Eli on the HOF RIGHT NOW, they have made it clear if he just is able to lead a winning team, and continue to play at the avg of his last 4 seasons, then he'd easily be a lock bc then his numbers will add up, at least enough to where combined with the 2 and possible more SB's(MVPS).

any qb who has multiple sb mvps is in the HOF, i dont think that changes with Eli. Remember, HOF isnt strictly a numbers thing. it seems MS and others place more ilk on the numbers than the voters themselves.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:01 PM
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son . . . . . man why do you talk about your mamma like that for?

Morehead State
08-03-2012, 04:02 PM
Peter King, who has a HoF vote, said all Eli needs to do to make it into the Hall is to finish his career with good to very good stats. He's filled out the rest of his resume for entry, and now it's up to essentially padding his stats a bit. Pretty much, all he needs to do is not have any really bad seasons.

And again, that's not my opinion, but that of a Hall of Fame voter.
If thats his standard then he doesn't deserve a vote. I beleive Eli will be a Hall of Famer when all is said and done. I do because i think he will continue on the trajectory he set last season. If he regresses to what we saw in some earlier seasons, he won't get there.
Again...I don't see any reason that would happen.
Simply "good play" isn't enough. The Hall is reserved (or should be) for those who have "great play".

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:04 PM
btw.....ever hear of a "cohesive paragraph"? How about punctuation? oh what's a matter did I hurt your feeling with that 22,000 posts comment? That's all you got man going to have to better then that if ,you want to debate the original subject I am willing but for now I am done with you.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:06 PM
did I really some ask me to give them my criteria for the hof I gave it to them, they said eli stats were not great and I agreed but I said the 2 sbs puts him in, I made a comment on how eli's stats were better then most qbs in the hof then someone calls me uneducated cause I made that statement then I gave them facts as to like there are 23 qbs in the hof and only seven have better stats then it got out of control from there not my fault if they don't have a legitimate arguement as to why he shouldn't be in the hof maybe you should go back and read from the beginning

I have read this thread ...every post from the start....you were fine till that point....then you called someone( I think romo) a moron at least 2x and someone a homo....Fbomb tried to explain why you can't do that among others...then you just went ballistic....trust me you are not going to win a battle of wits with fbomb

jomo
08-03-2012, 04:09 PM
First I am going to preface this by saying...I am just trying to explain some things to you...Jomo did not call you names...all he did was make a joke....you immediately took offense.......F bomb was honestly trying to help you with some friendly advice ..and for future posts....anytime you make a thread about Eli it will get heated...it will go on forever ....you can not take what is said personally....believe it or not we all do root for the same team....most of the people you are calling names are well respected Giant fans and you are the new kid on the block....It doesn't mean you are not a fan...but it is like any new kid....there is some adjustment.....but starting fights is not the way to win friends and influence peopleA thoughtful response Fansince69, maybe you are the one that gets through. Go Blue!!

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 04:09 PM
guys, take it easy all of you.

elicruzz, i understand how u feel. it feels like people are ganging up on you and calling u names and instigating. But don't get so worked up and angry. Im on your side here and id suggest just taking a breather and not letting comments rile you up. And its just how some posters converse on these boards...theres a lot of characters around here. Yes, I saw some condescending posts, but for the most part, most of the people your conversing with are big eli fans and more importantly giants fans. i have been where ur at, all angry and stuff bc people talk differently on a mb than in real life. But I dont want to see you get banned and if u keep name calling, regardless of if some one else does, chances are u and that person will get suspended.
I know theres a few posters who instigate, and then play like they are innocent. And that they can make your opinion and thoughts feel slighted. But dont go slighting them back bc then u join their level. Stick to posting about football, ignore the condescending posts (which come from the SAME posters as I quoted and shown) and you'll be alrihgt.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:11 PM
oh what's a matter did I hurt your feeling with that 22,000 posts comment? That's all you got man going to have to better then that if ,you want to debate the original subject I am willing but for now I am done with you.

I don't need to debate the original subject with you because I agree with you. My problem is how you act when being disagreed with...(well, that and your inability to write a paragraph better than my 7 year old)......Post count arguments are for the simple minded...which is giving you far more intellectual credit than you have earned so far.

lastly...I will decide when you are done with me.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:12 PM
A thoughtful response Fansince69, maybe you are the one that gets through. Go Blue!!

Hey I am a thoughtful guy lol...but I have my reservations about getting through...but I did try

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 04:13 PM
No...I said I was done trying to HELP you....but I'm not surprised that you misread it. It seems to be your MO. Now I'm just making fun of you.

no offense fbomb i dont mean to single u out but ur post is a perfect example.

elicruzz, just avoid posts like that one. its obvious when someone is condescending and disrespectful (and honestly fbomb, how do u suspect elicruz will act in response? ur not better than he is, in fact worse, bc ur instigating some one who obviously feels like he is being ganged up on). now fbomb didnt call u any names, but u can see when someone talks down to u. usually fbomb is a great poster but sometimes he does (well like all the time lol but its usually in good fun) post with that kinda attitude. just stick to the football aspect, dont name call, and when some one else talks down to u, u dont even need to point it out. trust me, there are plenty of posters reading thru threads who dont post and see how things play out...

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:14 PM
Let's see if I can dumb this down for you......A. They actually DIDN'T start with the name calling....you did. You called Jomo a troll which by defenition means "pretending to be a fan".....He thought it was funny that someone who has been here a short time would call someone who has been here a long time a troll...simple as that. he just pointed it out. B..Jomo was on your side from the begining bascially saying that the people who are telling you that Eli doesn't have the stats to be a hall of famer are wrong. You took it the wrong way and attacked him and that has lead to where we are now. I tried to help you but you turned against me too....which is fine......nothing funnier than watching someone continue to hang themselves with thier own rope. How am I hanging myself cause me and you see different? I get you want to stick up for your buddies I see how people do things on this board.I never said that people who said Eli didn't have the stats to be in the HOF are wrong I just gave them facts to back up MO so think whatever you want, like I said before I don't really care if you disagree me about with him being in the HOF fine but at least back it with something, give me a reason. Don't just say you and your experts are uneducated

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:16 PM
no offense fbomb i dont mean to single u out but ur post is a perfect example.

elicruzz, just avoid posts like that one. its obvious when someone is condescending and disrespectful (and honestly fbomb, how do u suspect elicruz will act in response? ur not better than he is, in fact worse, bc ur instigating some one who obviously feels like he is being ganged up on). now fbomb didnt call u any names, but u can see when someone talks down to u. usually fbomb is a great poster but sometimes he does (well like all the time lol but its usually in good fun) post with that kinda attitude. just stick to the football aspect, dont name call, and when some one else talks down to u, u dont even need to point it out. trust me, there are plenty of posters reading thru threads who dont post and see how things play out...

You're mama!!!! :cool:

jomo
08-03-2012, 04:16 PM
Hey I am a thoughtful guy lol...but I have my reservations about getting through...but I did tryThese boards are all about intentions and yours were certainly good. .........and don't go getting too thoughtful on us lol!

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:18 PM
no offense fbomb i dont mean to single u out but ur post is a perfect example.

elicruzz, just avoid posts like that one. its obvious when someone is condescending and disrespectful (and honestly fbomb, how do u suspect elicruz will act in response? ur not better than he is, in fact worse, bc ur instigating some one who obviously feels like he is being ganged up on). now fbomb didnt call u any names, but u can see when someone talks down to u. usually fbomb is a great poster but sometimes he does (well like all the time lol but its usually in good fun) post with that kinda attitude. just stick to the football aspect, dont name call, and when some one else talks down to u, u dont even need to point it out. trust me, there are plenty of posters reading thru threads who dont post and see how things play out...

No offense gf420 you do give good advice...but fbomb started by trying to give him sound friendly advice...eliscruzz took it wrong and went nuts...then it was just fbomb being fbomb

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:20 PM
How am I hanging myself cause me and you see different? I get you want to stick up for your buddies I see how people do things on this board.I never said that people who said Eli didn't have the stats to be in the HOF are wrong I just gave them facts to back up MO so think whatever you want, like I said before I don't really care if you disagree me about with him being in the HOF fine but at least back it with something, give me a reason. Don't just say you and your experts are uneducated

Holy ****....you are still NOT getting it.....jomo was saying that the people who are saying Eli doesn't have the stats are wrong....you misread it and attacked him. I, on the other hand, didn't even try and debate the question because I believe Eli DOES have the stats to get in.

I think you need to go smoke a bowl, calm down and go back and reread this thread post by post and maybe THEN you can see where you ****ed up.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:21 PM
No offense gf420 you do give good advice...but fbomb started by trying to give him sound friendly advice...eliscruzz took it wrong and went nuts...then it was just fbomb being fbomb

Hey....**** you all!!!:p

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:21 PM
These boards are all about intentions and yours were certainly good. .........and don't go getting too thoughtful on us lol!

FINE....no flowers for you on valentines day

Morehead State
08-03-2012, 04:21 PM
Holy ****....you are still NOT getting it.....jomo was saying that the people who are saying Eli doesn't have the stats are wrong....you misread it and attacked him. I, on the other hand, didn't even try and debate the question because I believe Eli DOES have the stats to get in.

I think you need to go smoke a bowl, calm down and go back and reread this thread post by post and maybe THEN you can see where you ****ed up.
I usually like to be in the middle of these petty, childish arguments. They're right in my wheelhouse. I'm very disappointed in myself.

jomo
08-03-2012, 04:24 PM
FINE....no flowers for you on valentines dayThe introduction of some humor and dimunition of anger. Could it be that fansince69 has found the magic coaching words?

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:24 PM
I usually like to be in the middle of these petty, childish arguments. They're right in my wheelhouse. I'm very disappointed in myself.

I was wondering where you were!!!!

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:25 PM
First I am going to preface this by saying...I am just trying to explain some things to you...Jomo did not call you names...all he did was make a joke....you immediately took offense.......F bomb was honestly trying to help you with some friendly advice ..and for future posts....anytime you make a thread about Eli it will get heated...it will go on forever ....you can not take what is said personally....believe it or not we all do root for the same team....most of the people you are calling names are well respected Giant fans and you are the new kid on the block....It doesn't mean you are not a fan...but it is like any new kid....there is some adjustment.....but starting fights is not the way to win friends and influence people Thanks and I appreciate it I knew Jomo was making a joke but he does that all the time to me and I got sick of it that's all I'm all for a good debate but this is not the first time this has happened. I realize we are all Giant fans and that's the reason for me joining there boards, but just because I'm the new kid on the block doesn't mean that I have to take being made fun of whole hearted or not, and FBOMB felt the need to attack me and tell me to stfu I don't really take that as trying to help me. Would you? I never said I was the only Giants fan all I said IN THE BEGINNING is that TO ME Eli if he stop today his stats and his SB wins are enough to get him in.

jomo
08-03-2012, 04:28 PM
Thanks and I appreciate it I knew Jomo was making a joke but he does that all the time to me and I got sick of it that's all I'm all for a good debate but this is not the first time this has happened. I realize we are all Giant fans and that's the reason for me joining there boards, but just because I'm the new kid on the block doesn't mean that I have to take being made fun of whole hearted or not, and FBOMB felt the need to attack me and tell me to stfu I don't really take that as trying to help me. Would you? I never said I was the only Giants fan all I said IN THE BEGINNING is that TO ME Eli if he stop today his stats and his SB wins are enough to get him in.We have confirmation now that fansince69 could easily find a career as a hostage negotiator or one of those guys who talks people down from bridges. Well done my friend. The progress of your student is remarkable and unmistakeable! Go Blue!!

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:28 PM
Thanks and I appreciate it I knew Jomo was making a joke but he does that all the time to me and I got sick of it that's all I'm all for a good debate but this is not the first time this has happened. I realize we are all Giant fans and that's the reason for me joining there boards, but just because I'm the new kid on the block doesn't mean that I have to take being made fun of whole hearted or not, and FBOMB felt the need to attack me and tell me to stfu I don't really take that as trying to help me. Would you? I never said I was the only Giants fan all I said IN THE BEGINNING is that TO ME Eli if he stop today his stats and his SB wins are enough to get him in.

I never once told you to stfu.....I told you to calm down and explained to you why. You continued acting like a child and I treated you accordingly. You may need a good spanking..where the hell is Harooni when you need him??!!

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:29 PM
Thanks and I appreciate it I knew Jomo was making a joke but he does that all the time to me and I got sick of it that's all I'm all for a good debate but this is not the first time this has happened. I realize we are all Giant fans and that's the reason for me joining there boards, but just because I'm the new kid on the block doesn't mean that I have to take being made fun of whole hearted or not, and FBOMB felt the need to attack me and tell me to stfu I don't really take that as trying to help me. Would you? I never said I was the only Giants fan all I said IN THE BEGINNING is that TO ME Eli if he stop today his stats and his SB wins are enough to get him in.


I am sorry ,but if you reread exactly what fbomb said in his first post in this thread all he did was advise you that you can't call people names...and he is right...you will be banned...he didnt really start giving you **** till you went nuts...I am not taking sides...I am just telling you what was said and the order it happened....btw ...welcome to the boards

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:29 PM
If thats his standard then he doesn't deserve a vote. I beleive Eli will be a Hall of Famer when all is said and done. I do because i think he will continue on the trajectory he set last season. If he regresses to what we saw in some earlier seasons, he won't get there.
Again...I don't see any reason that would happen.
Simply "good play" isn't enough. The Hall is reserved (or should be) for those who have "great play". This is true never thought about it that way Eli should have to play at a high level cause once you show you can play at a high level a couple times and your in your prime you should have to continue to do so.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:31 PM
We have confirmation now that fansince69 could easily find a career as a hostage negotiator or one of those guys who talks people down from bridges. Well done my friend. The progress of your student is remarkable and unmistakeable! Go Blue!!

and how do you know that isn't what i do?...It isn.t...but how do you know?

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:33 PM
We have confirmation now that fansince69 could easily find a career as a hostage negotiator or one of those guys who talks people down from bridges. Well done my friend. The progress of your student is remarkable and unmistakeable! Go Blue!!


btw ..that means alot to me coming from someone with 8,500 posts....oh wait that's what started this

jomo
08-03-2012, 04:33 PM
and how do you know that isn't what i do?...It isn.t...but how do you know?If you told me so, I'd believe it. You have a masterful touch! Go Giants!

jomo
08-03-2012, 04:34 PM
btw ..that means alot to me coming from someone with 8,500 posts....oh wait that's what started thisThere, you see the last part of your sentance you reeled it back just a bit. That is progress.

jomo
08-03-2012, 04:35 PM
How did I get stuck in this thread?
Send help!!

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:37 PM
How did I get stuck in this thread?
Send help!!
It is like a car accident...you know you shouldn't look but you just have to.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:37 PM
I have read this thread ...every post from the start....you were fine till that point....then you called someone( I think romo) a moron at least 2x and someone a homo....Fbomb tried to explain why you can't do that among others...then you just went ballistic....trust me you are not going to win a battle of wits with fbomb Well if you go back he basically called me the same thing but not so blatantly. He said me and my experts were uneducated to me that's means your a moron and you don't know what your talking about does it not? I went ballistic cause he came in telling me to stfu I didn't ask for his help or did I ask for his opinion on what he thinks on the way I go about things, I know your trying to show that I was wrong and I appreciate cause you addressed me mild mannered, but you gotta see it from my side too.

Drez
08-03-2012, 04:38 PM
If thats his standard then he doesn't deserve a vote. I beleive Eli will be a Hall of Famer when all is said and done. I do because i think he will continue on the trajectory he set last season. If he regresses to what we saw in some earlier seasons, he won't get there.
Again...I don't see any reason that would happen.
Simply "good play" isn't enough. The Hall is reserved (or should be) for those who have "great play". You do realize that with 4 or 5 more years of good play (60comp%+, 3500yds+, 25tds+), that upon retiring Eli will be in top 15 (give or take) of most QB categories, right? Add that to 2 SB titles and SBMVPs and a HoF it does make.

But, as I said, I'll take the word of someone who actually has a vote and knows the criteria that the voters usually take into consideration.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:40 PM
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMvTo5lJx-HTeKDiCZBMPQ_rOG6PhCKdEtkWNvHkVAR2FJRqpl

"chump don't want no help, chump don't get no help"

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:42 PM
Well if you go back he basically called me the same thing but not so blatantly. He said me and my experts were uneducated to me that's means your a moron and you don't know what your talking about does it not? I went ballistic cause he came in telling me to stfu I didn't ask for his help or did I ask for his opinion on what he thinks on the way I go about things, I know your trying to show that I was wrong and I appreciate cause you addressed me mild mannered, but you gotta see it from my side too.

I think you are either mixing up posters or stating something fbomb said later in the conversation....but his initial post was just friendly advice not to call names and warning you that you could be banned....I have been trying to see it from your side.....you had a point ...a point many agreed with you....but you mis read some things got angry and then it just got out of hand....my best advice....read more carefully....think before you post and remember not everyone will agree with you

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:42 PM
Well if you go back he basically called me the same thing but not so blatantly. He said me and my experts were uneducated to me that's means your a moron and you don't know what your talking about does it not? I went ballistic cause he came in telling me to stfu I didn't ask for his help or did I ask for his opinion on what he thinks on the way I go about things, I know your trying to show that I was wrong and I appreciate cause you addressed me mild mannered, but you gotta see it from my side too.

Man...that is some thick skull you got there....and still...I never told you to stfu. Your comprehension of the facts is as good as your ability to make a point.....nill.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:43 PM
guys, take it easy all of you.

elicruzz, i understand how u feel. it feels like people are ganging up on you and calling u names and instigating. But don't get so worked up and angry. Im on your side here and id suggest just taking a breather and not letting comments rile you up. And its just how some posters converse on these boards...theres a lot of characters around here. Yes, I saw some condescending posts, but for the most part, most of the people your conversing with are big eli fans and more importantly giants fans. i have been where ur at, all angry and stuff bc people talk differently on a mb than in real life. But I dont want to see you get banned and if u keep name calling, regardless of if some one else does, chances are u and that person will get suspended.
I know theres a few posters who instigate, and then play like they are innocent. And that they can make your opinion and thoughts feel slighted. But dont go slighting them back bc then u join their level. Stick to posting about football, ignore the condescending posts (which come from the SAME posters as I quoted and shown) and you'll be alrihgt.Thanks I will take your advice maybe I should just stop hey were all Giants fans right? I thank you for this insightful post on they way some people are I will stick with the football stuff if I have a problem about other things Giant related I will keep it to my self you make great valid posts keep it up and I'll stay away from the bait to get me pissed.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 04:50 PM
Man...that is some thick skull you got there....and still...I never told you to stfu. Your comprehension of the facts is as good as your ability to make a point.....nill. Great thanks man you're so awesome!!!

fansince69
08-03-2012, 04:52 PM
Isn't it nice when we all just get along?

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:56 PM
Great thanks man you're so awesome!!!

All I can say to that is....."It's about ****ing time!!!":cool:

FBomb
08-03-2012, 04:59 PM
Isn't it nice when we all just get along?



".....oh, Lord Kumbaya..."

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCBnQXK3l5C1P3OVa3du4QsDhhHPTRj AP-obvP434SbODHDBxY

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 05:10 PM
All I can say to that is....."It's about ****ing time!!!":cool: no problem man I see you guys like to have fun on these boards I'll be calm from now on I was just used to a different type of message board. now can we please talk football

fansince69
08-03-2012, 05:13 PM
no problem man I see you guys like to have fun on these boards I'll be calm from now on I was just used to a different type of message board. now can we please talk football

Does this mean you 2 will be taking warm showers together now?

Imgrate
08-03-2012, 05:14 PM
You do realize that with 4 or 5 more years of good play (60comp%+, 3500yds+, 25tds+), that upon retiring Eli will be in top 15 (give or take) of most QB categories, right? Add that to 2 SB titles and SBMVPs and a HoF it does make. But, as I said, I'll take the word of someone who actually has a vote and knows the criteria that the voters usually take into consideration.All these young kids will surpass his numbers. are they hall of famers too? The game has changed. saying top 15 doesn't really mean all that much when everyone else in the league that's decent will end up in the top 15 too.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 05:15 PM
Thanks I will take your advice maybe I should just stop hey were all Giants fans right? I thank you for this insightful post on they way some people are I will stick with the football stuff if I have a problem about other things Giant related I will keep it to my self you make great valid posts keep it up and I'll stay away from the bait to get me pissed.
look forward to talking giants with ya buddy

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 05:17 PM
All these young kids will surpass his numbers. are they hall of famers too? The game has changed. saying top 15 doesn't really mean all that much when everyone else in the league that's decent will end up in the top 15 too.

so ur telling me that if a qb wins at least 2 sb mvps, and ends up with better stats than eli, that you DONT think he should be in the hall? i have no problem saying that if a qb does those things, he goes in the hall.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Does this mean you 2 will be taking warm showers together now? No I wouldn't say that maybe we'll break bread with each other over dinner

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 05:19 PM
All these young kids will surpass his numbers. are they hall of famers too? The game has changed. saying top 15 doesn't really mean all that much when everyone else in the league that's decent will end up in the top 15 too. Well if they put up the #'s and win SB's too why not? I don't mean just one SB I mean multiple.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 05:20 PM
and also, the HOF isnt strictly about numbers. not even close. thats something people need to realize. the STORY of eli, eclipses any number. think about the beginning to where he is now, and all the media and stories he gave to the media (now its mostly quiet with eli but there was a time it was sanchezX100) and just how everything worked out with the 2 SB MVPS, that when you COMBINE the legacy with the numbers, its more than enough for the HOF imho, and it seems like ,.a lot of people agree with that stance ie Simms and all the other writers who happened to be the voters who wrote that ELi was going to the HOF which made it a story for us in the first place

FBomb
08-03-2012, 05:22 PM
Does this mean you 2 will be taking warm showers together now?

Sorry....my date book is full!!

on that note.......Anyone know why Jerry Sandusky never won a race?

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 05:22 PM
that is to say, the idea of eli going to the HOF as is right now actually came from the sports writers who vote on the HOF...think about that, and when u consider how it really is such a debatable topic, that eli will get enough votes to go in (when u factor the other people who will vote eli in when his career is over and we have all his numbers)

i think its important that we understand that eli cant make the HOF now anyways, so this story is all moot. god willing, elis our guy for another decade. im 100% certain that when elis career is over, not even the staunchest critic will claim eli shouldnt go to the hof

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 05:25 PM
another example of how elis career will go down as legendary is his whole "i'm elite" proclomation. think about 15 yrs from now. its like namaths guarantee imho. eli said he's elite, then went out and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he's not only elite, but truly special. its that kinda stuff that makes up elis whole career, great stories like that one. and those things weigh HEAVILY on the voters, bc they are the writers who work hand in hand with those stories (they kind of create the legend to a degree)

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 05:30 PM
I expect Eli to improve on his #'s every year from now,everyone has this misconception about him that last year was his only great year I'd say he's been consistanly above average I mean just look at the #'s before this year and you take into account on all the stuff he had to deal with like KG's system which is not easy to grasp for a young qb and the revolving door of WR's like plax, Boss, Smith, Shockey all these guys were his #1 at some point now that he's in his prime at 31 and a steady group of wr's expect great thing's

FBomb
08-03-2012, 05:33 PM
I expect Eli to improve on his #'s every year from now,everyone has this misconception about him that last year was his only great year I'd say he's been consistanly above average I mean just look at the #'s before this year and you take into account on all the stuff he had to deal with like KG's system which is not easy to grasp for a young qb and the revolving door of WR's like plax, Boss, Smith, Shockey all these guys were his #1 at some point now that he's in his prime at 31 and a steady group of wr's expect great thing's

Eli's numbers and performance have done nothing but improve every year. Eli is well on his way to the HOF....people just have a problem letting go of thier own previous opinions of him.

I will be at Canton when Stra goes and I will be there for Eli.

Imgrate
08-03-2012, 05:34 PM
so ur telling me that if a qb wins at least 2 sb mvps, and ends up with better stats than eli, that you DONT think he should be in the hall? i have no problem saying that if a qb does those things, he goes in the hall. mainly just pointing out that putting up better numbers than say Joe Montana isn't really that big of a deal. passing records are going to continuously be higher and higher.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 05:37 PM
not to mention the old Meadowlands stadium and the whether and the the bad teammates like Tiki Eli was building himself up for this Bress didn't start putting up great #'s till after his 8 season all elite qb's went through the same thing you just hear about it more cause he's Peyton's little brother and the New York media so everyone expected him to be Peyton right of the bat.

GMENAGAIN
08-03-2012, 05:38 PM
another example of how elis career will go down as legendary is his whole "i'm elite" proclomation. think about 15 yrs from now. its like namaths guarantee imho. eli said he's elite, then went out and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he's not only elite, but truly special. its that kinda stuff that makes up elis whole career, great stories like that one. and those things weigh HEAVILY on the voters, bc they are the writers who work hand in hand with those stories (they kind of create the legend to a degree)
In retrospect, that is unbelievable . . . . he got ripped for saying that he was in the same class as Brady, then went out and beat Brady during the regular season and in the Super Bowl. Couldn't have written a better script . . . .

FBomb
08-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Sorry....my date book is full!!

on that note.......Anyone know why Jerry Sandusky never won a race?

No one wants to tackle this burning question?:o

gumby74
08-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Eli's numbers and performance have done nothing but improve every year. Eli is well on his way to the HOF....people just have a problem letting go of thier own previous opinions of him.

I will be at Canton when Stra goes and I will be there for Eli.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would question if Eli would get into the HOF if he continues his current trajectory. But to say as of right now, he'll get in - that's a bit of a stretch. It's hard to argue with 2 SB rings, but technically he's only really had one great season and that was last year. That's why the next few years will be super important. Matt brought up a great point in saying that with both Brady and Brees, they shifted into a different gear at exactly where Eli is right now. Man, if he can do that? Look out.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 05:42 PM
Eli's numbers and performance have done nothing but improve every year. Eli is well on his way to the HOF....people just have a problem letting go of thier own previous opinions of him.

I will be at Canton when Stra goes and I will be there for Eli. Agreed and are you actually really going to Canton when Stra gets in?

gumby74
08-03-2012, 05:44 PM
In retrospect, that is unbelievable . . . . he got ripped for saying that he was in the same class as Brady, then went out and beat Brady during the regular season and in the Super Bowl. Couldn't have written a better script . . . .

He caused a crap storm when he said it, and right fully so. But you're totally right. It was pretty awesome.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 05:45 PM
Agreed and are you actually really going to Canton when Stra gets in?

I am...I was there for LT ......WAY in the back, but I was there...and I will be there for them.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 05:47 PM
I don't think anyone in their right mind would question if Eli would get into the HOF if he continues his current trajectory. But to say as of right now, he'll get in - that's a bit of a stretch. It's hard to argue with 2 SB rings, but technically he's only really had one great season and that was last year. That's why the next few years will be super important. Matt brought up a great point in saying that with both Brady and Brees, they shifted into a different gear at exactly where Eli is right now. Man, if he can do that? Look out.

DYNASTY...it's not just a bad Linda Evans soap opera!!

fansince69
08-03-2012, 05:49 PM
I am...I was there for LT ......WAY in the back, but I was there...and I will be there for them.

Your in Syracuse right ..cant be more than 6-8 hrs from you...(I am between utica and albany...closer to utica)

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 05:49 PM
In retrospect, that is unbelievable . . . . he got ripped for saying that he was in the same class as Brady, then went out and beat Brady during the regular season and in the Super Bowl. Couldn't have written a better script . . . .

and the voters will remember that over any number that isnt 1rst all time. thats my point. eli's career, as of right now, if literally filled with examples like this. moreso than any other player i can even think of. numbers are but just part of the process for voting.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 05:50 PM
I don't think anyone in their right mind would question if Eli would get into the HOF if he continues his current trajectory. But to say as of right now, he'll get in - that's a bit of a stretch. It's hard to argue with 2 SB rings, but technically he's only really had one great season and that was last year. That's why the next few years will be super important. Matt brought up a great point in saying that with both Brady and Brees, they shifted into a different gear at exactly where Eli is right now. Man, if he can do that? Look out.

not as big of a stretch as saying elis only had one great year...so comical.

Eliscruzzz
08-03-2012, 05:50 PM
That's awesome I wish I could go to one induction ceremony for a Giants player how much were the tickets?

giants8493
08-03-2012, 05:52 PM
His stats are not bad at all his are almost better then other sb winning QB's and has at least 7 more years?I think that as long as he doesn't get hurt or implode then he is in based on what he has done already. If he retired now though probably not.

gumby74
08-03-2012, 05:52 PM
DYNASTY...it's not just a bad Linda Evans soap opera!! This Giant team has let me down emotionally so many times, I'm just so jaded. It's hard to be high when things are going well, because I have no idea what kind of performance we're going to get the following weak. I'll believe when I see it. Until then, I'll predict us going 9-7 or 8-8 every year, and being a buzzkill only to have us win the SB. And yes, you can thank myself and the underground gnomes from bringing home the trophy.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 05:52 PM
Your in Syracuse right ..cant be more than 6-8 hrs from you...(I am between utica and albany...closer to utica)

I think I did it in 5 last time. Can't remember exactly.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 05:54 PM
This Giant team has let me down emotionally so many times, I'm just so jaded. It's hard to be high when things are going well, because I have no idea what kind of performance we're going to get the following weak. I'll believe when I see it. Until then, I'll predict us going 9-7 or 8-8 every year, and being a buzzkill only to have us win the SB. And yes, you can thank myself and the underground gnomes from bringing home the trophy.

I can live with losing...I watched in the 70's ...what bothers me is when I feel like we have talent...and they play like they just do not care...

gumby74
08-03-2012, 05:54 PM
not as big of a stretch as saying elis only had one great year...so comical.

If it was so comical, there wouldn't have been such a huge uproar over him saying he was "elite" prior to this year. If you want to think Eli has had many great years prior to this one, go ahead. But at least know that you're in the overwhelming minority when you say it. Comical? Not in the slightest.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 05:55 PM
I think I did it in 5 last time. Can't remember exactly.

still not a terrible drive....although I can be in Cooperstown in an hour ..lol

FBomb
08-03-2012, 05:56 PM
That's awesome I wish I could go to one induction ceremony for a Giants player how much were the tickets?

It was nothing to go to the event...it was all outside....but if you want to go inside...which I highly recommend...it was about $22 bucks. But like I said that was a while ago, it may be more now. Lots of fan interactive things to do there.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 05:57 PM
still not a terrible drive....although I can be in Cooperstown in an hour ..lol

I can get to the boxing HOF in a half hour....the question is, why would I?

fansince69
08-03-2012, 05:59 PM
I can get to the boxing HOF in a half hour....the question is, why would I?

sorry...I can be there in half hour as well and I wouldn't either...but not sure what that has to do with Cooperstown...If you are implying you wouldn't go to baseball hall of fame...to each his own

FBomb
08-03-2012, 06:00 PM
No one wants to tackle this burning question?:o

Because he likes coming in a little behind.

FBomb
08-03-2012, 06:01 PM
sorry...I can be there in half hour as well and I wouldn't either...but not sure what that has to do with Cooperstown...If you are implying you wouldn't go to baseball hall of fame...to each his own

Nope....just poking fun at the glorified rest stop in Onieda. I've been to Cooperstown as well.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 06:04 PM
If it was so comical, there wouldn't have been such a huge uproar over him saying he was "elite" prior to this year. If you want to think Eli has had many great years prior to this one, go ahead. But at least know that you're in the overwhelming minority when you say it. Comical? Not in the slightest.
not at all. alex smith just had a great season. ar epeople calling him elite? is he calling himself elite?

eli had a great season 2005,2008,2009,2011.
2006, 2007, 2010 were somewhat off years. and i have no issue saying that. did eli have ELITE seasons besides 2011? 2009 I would say was elite, 2008 was close. probowl invite.

but yeah, as usual, and its why i even bother replying to you, is to make an inaccurate statement you made, accurate for the rest of us. u can believe hes only had one great year, im sure your not alone.
for those of us who understand and are objective, its not difficult at all to say elis had more than one great season, bc he's had more than one great season.

fansince69
08-03-2012, 06:06 PM
Nope....just poking fun at the glorified rest stop in Onieda. I've been to Cooperstown as well.

I actually stop there all the time( boxing hall of fame)...Its the cheapest gas around right across the road....technically its in canastota...

gumby74
08-03-2012, 06:12 PM
not at all. alex smith just had a great season. ar epeople calling him elite? is he calling himself elite?

eli had a great season 2005,2008,2009,2011.
2006, 2007, 2010 were somewhat off years. and i have no issue saying that. did eli have ELITE seasons besides 2011? 2009 I would say was elite, 2008 was close. probowl invite.

but yeah, as usual, and its why i even bother replying to you, is to make an inaccurate statement you made, accurate for the rest of us. u can believe hes only had one great year, im sure your not alone.
for those of us who understand and are objective, its not difficult at all to say elis had more than one great season, bc he's had more than one great season.

Again, you're in the OVERWHELMING minority that thinks this. I hardly think you're the Michael Angelo of football trying to educate the the rest of the world on things they don't understand. After all, it's just football.

Imgrate
08-03-2012, 06:16 PM
Eli wasnt that good in 05. Extremely inefficient

Morehead State
08-03-2012, 06:18 PM
You do realize that with 4 or 5 more years of good play (60comp%+, 3500yds+, 25tds+), that upon retiring Eli will be in top 15 (give or take) of most QB categories, right? Add that to 2 SB titles and SBMVPs and a HoF it does make.

But, as I said, I'll take the word of someone who actually has a vote and knows the criteria that the voters usually take into consideration.

Eli has had one Hall Of Fame worthy season. Yolu need several. And to say that he will be in the top 15 is not relevant. At least 10 QB's in todays game are in the same boat. Maybe more. So unless you think that Tony Romo is a lock for the Hall ........
The game is different now so you point is actually kind of silly.
As i said..I believe that Eli will continue to play the way he played last season and therefor be a Hall of Fame type player. But despite what any "voter" says, if he is simply a pretty good player from here on out, its not good enough. And if it is, the Hall will become a joke.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 06:24 PM
Eli wasnt that good in 05. Extremely inefficient

what?! it was his first yr starting, and all he did was lead us to 11 wins, like 24 tds, 14 ints and 3500 or more yards. he had a helluva 2005.

rainierjef
08-03-2012, 06:25 PM
There is no set criteria or standard. One looks at both the stats and accomplishments of a player's career and it goes from there. Eli's stats after 7 full seasons as a starter compare favorably/similarly to those such as Brady and Brees (players today that most would say are shoo-ins). Add in 2 SB wins and MVPs and I'd say you have a player that if his career ended today should be in the HoF.
So if thats the case the question is not a matter of if he will get in its a matter of when? Okay so if what you say is right; their is no set criteria or standard, then just off his superbowl wins and mvps he should be in. Maybe not first ballot second or even third but someday; Okay fine if what you say is true agree. Allow me to play devils advocate for a second. If by what you say do you also agree that if the nfl ended tomorrow just like the case of Eli, tony romo desereves to be in the HOF?
While you answer that im gonna go puke!

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 06:25 PM
Eli has had one Hall Of Fame worthy season. Yolu need several. And to say that he will be in the top 15 is not relevant. At least 10 QB's in todays game are in the same boat. Maybe more. So unless you think that Tony Romo is a lock for the Hall ........
The game is different now so you point is actually kind of silly.
As i said..I believe that Eli will continue to play the way he played last season and therefor be a Hall of Fame type player. But despite what any "voter" says, if he is simply a pretty good player from here on out, its not good enough. And if it is, the Hall will become a joke.
i just want to key in on a statement you made. I agree with it btw. Eli has had only one HOF worthy season by the numbers. That is way different than saying "Elis had only one great year" bc A) great is so subjective and B) eli has had more than one great season

Imgrate
08-03-2012, 06:30 PM
what?! it was his first yr starting, and all he did was lead us to 11 wins, like 24 tds, 14 ints and 3500 or more yards. he had a helluva 2005.He wasn't leading anything in 05.He also had the most attempts in the league. Terrible comp pct. Terrible ypa. He was extremely inefficient. with that many attempts his production should have been much higher.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 06:32 PM
He wasn't leading anything in 05.He also had the most attempts in the league. Terrible comp pct. Terrible ypa. He was extremely inefficient. with that many attempts his production should have been much higher.

how is "having the most pass attempts" not leading the offense again tho?
lol. it was his first yr starting. i cant recall one person not thinking eli had a great season after 05 but thats just me i guess.

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 06:34 PM
if ur comparing eli in 05 to now, then 05 wasnt great at all. at the time, after that carolina loss had settled down, most every single person i heard talk about eli remarked how he had a great season.

it was that season that led many of us to believing eli would be where he is today

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 06:35 PM
did andy dalton have a great season? quick question

Imgrate
08-03-2012, 06:36 PM
how is "having the most pass attempts" not leading the offense again tho?lol. it was his first yr starting. i cant recall one person not thinking eli had a great season after 05 but thats just me i guess.I can't think of anyone that thought Eli was great until now

fansince69
08-03-2012, 06:41 PM
if ur comparing eli in 05 to now, then 05 wasnt great at all. at the time, after that carolina loss had settled down, most every single person i heard talk about eli remarked how he had a great season.

it was that season that led many of us to believing eli would be where he is today

I would say that as fans most of us were very impressed that Eli led us to the playoffs....something that we hadn't done in a few years....but to claim he had a great year statistically is a bit of a stretch.....

rainierjef
08-03-2012, 06:47 PM
Also and just my opinion. The type of offenses that brady, rodgers, brees, and romo lead allow them to put up stupid high numbers. Eli has not been the benefactor of such an offense. I believe he can do just as well in one but that has not been the case with our run first offense. Plus unlike the saints and the pats. We are not known for racking up the points on teams, we could but i don't think that's coughlins style, he's a get the lead control the clock run the ball, as you all know. So our offense is probably not favorable for eli to have that league mvp year; as of last year. Now we are seeing the offense evolve a bit. So i think we need to see where this team is going offense wise in the next couple years and then determine the validity of elis HOF eligibility. Imho

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 06:52 PM
I would say that as fans most of us were very impressed that Eli led us to the playoffs....something that we hadn't done in a few years....but to claim he had a great year statistically is a bit of a stretch.....

i never added the caveat that he was great statisitically. overall, he had a great year.

the term "great" is even more subjective than elite tho. so if someone doesnt want to say it was great, cool. gumby just made the assertion eli has only had one great season and presented it as fact. when i said he's had more than one season, even tho i conceded he was free to feel however he wanted, that i was trying to be michaelangelo or something and teach everyone about football bc i said he had more than one great season

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 06:54 PM
Also and just my opinion. The type of offenses that brady, rodgers, brees, and romo lead allow them to put up stupid high numbers. Eli has not been the benefactor of such an offense. I believe he can do just as well in one but that has not been the case with our run first offense. Plus unlike the saints and the pats. We are not known for racking up the points on teams, we could but i don't think that's coughlins style, he's a get the lead control the clock run the ball, as you all know. So our offense is probably not favorable for eli to have that league mvp year; as of last year. Now we are seeing the offense evolve a bit. So i think we need to see where this team is going offense wise in the next couple years and then determine the validity of elis HOF eligibility. Imho

well said. good post. diff offensive schemes arent recognized by everyone. some people just look at it as a blanket covering every aspect of statistics. its tricky bc we dont know what numbers eli would put up in their offenses and vise versa. so its tougher for the more avg. fan who isnt really all that educated on the game to differentiate the reasons for different statistical outputs. ie Brees had 48 tds, eli only had 29. eli was nowhere near as good as brees/ eli wasnt among the league leaders in any category so he only has had 1 great season etc etc

Neverend
08-03-2012, 07:17 PM
With the exception of that jim plunkett, every qb that has won at least 2 superbowls made it into the hall of fame. and brady should obviously make it there as well

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 07:18 PM
With the exception of that jim plunkett, every qb that has won at least 2 superbowls made it into the hall of fame. and brady should obviously make it there as well
AND...every qb to win two or more SB MVPS is in the HOF. eli was the 5th qb to acheive that

fansince69
08-03-2012, 07:23 PM
well said. good post. diff offensive schemes arent recognized by everyone. some people just look at it as a blanket covering every aspect of statistics. its tricky bc we dont know what numbers eli would put up in their offenses and vise versa. so its tougher for the more avg. fan who isnt really all that educated on the game to differentiate the reasons for different statistical outputs. ie Brees had 48 tds, eli only had 29. eli was nowhere near as good as brees/ eli wasnt among the league leaders in any category so he only has had 1 great season etc etc

I dont want to start this argument...I really do not.....but I have seen many times on here people use that exact same argument about Simms in the Simms eli argument...and you won't accept it then....you can't have it both ways......Please this was not to open that discussion again...it was just to make the point that different offenses do allow different personnel different stats...I have always claimed you can make stats support any argument if you twist them the right way....stats are useful but NOT the determining argument.

Morehead State
08-03-2012, 07:49 PM
i just want to key in on a statement you made. I agree with it btw. Eli has had only one HOF worthy season by the numbers. That is way different than saying "Elis had only one great year" bc A) great is so subjective and B) eli has had more than one great season
208 was a very good season. Not a great season. 2007 was pretty bad until the playoff run. Almost 1 to 1 in TD's to Int's. His play was so bad in the Buffalo game that on many 3rd and longs they didn't want to have the ball in Eli's hands and ran the ball. In my view, other than his rookie year) it was his worst game. Much worse than the 3 pick six game vs, Minn.
Last year he was truly great. Now that also can be said for at least 3 other QB's. Brees, Brady and Stafford. We had a rookie throw for 4000 yards. We have to be careful with his 4900+ yards last year as it was a season where that was 4th best. It was a wierd year, probably due to the lockout.
I am curious to see what happens in 2012. I still want those Int's down lower than last year.

rainierjef
08-03-2012, 08:00 PM
I still want those Int's down lower than last year. this.....+1

Imgrate
08-03-2012, 08:15 PM
did andy dalton have a great season? quick question No. tons of quarterbacks outplayed him this year. Greatness is reserved for the few, not the many

giantsfan420
08-03-2012, 08:38 PM
With the exception of that jim plunkett, every qb that has won at least 2 superbowls made it into the hall of fame. and brady should obviously make it there as well
AND...every qb to win two or more SB MVPS is in the HOF. eli was the 5th qb to acheive that